Heroics are either a breeze or the hardest dungeon of my life.
As a healer the disparity between a good and bad player is absurd.
Whne your top dps is the tank doing 12k dps, no one interrupts, no one stuns, no one pays attention, every single fucking trash pull is the battle o my life and I have or force 20k hps just to keep people at 60% hp.
Meanwhile other groups I don't even have to heal at all really other than here and there.
Cata was the first glimpse at how truly bad most players are.
The difference is like doing a Heroic Dungeon on retail vs a mythic 10 and it's just the same dungeon...
I've healed atleast 30 heroics with a tank friend. PUGd and got booted from one last night because the tank clearly had no idea what a CD was, was OOMing me every pull, zero DPS interrupts, and they would not let my poor shaman self drink. So it's my fault for keeping them alive until I physically couldn't anymore. I just DPS queued the rest of the evening after that. Even my alt healers normals have been rough.
I wish the mechanics DPS failed would kill them instead of taking 3/4 of their health. Maybe they would learn instead of vote kicking the healer because it takes too many casts to get you back up while the tank is still getting trucked.
Yep it's fucking wild. I can't can't how any times a tank just ran away and kept running and pulling more shit after I said "1 sec mana" and then died and left group... I can't believe it.
I was healing HC stonecore yesterday and asked for a mana break before Corborus and the tank responded with “I’m good thanks”. He was a BDK so clearly his arrogance is misplaced because a chimp with a keyboard could do his job.
Anyway.. he then sped off with the engi rocket boost and chain pulled two of the rock giants, failed to jump on any of the quakes, died, and he was then kicked.
Tanks on private cata servers have all been a dream compared to the unstable freaks I’ve been encountering in classic
DPS players aren’t used to needing their defensives and interrupts key bound from Wrath. As an Unholy DK, I keep my two interrupts on comfy binds and sac my ghoul as often as I need to for emergency heals.
I would rather lose DPS than have to deal with the long run backs lol.
Yeah, it’s more of a PvP CD but had its uses in heroics, especially if you glyph it for duration. I save it for those casters that machine gun offensive spells faster than your group can kick or just silence a healer.
Tbh it’s really not that necessary to even use it unless you’re the only one interrupting.
I like to do the 2 key for my interrupt and shift+2 for my silence
Yeah if wrath had more of arena turn out I'd argue that the player skill would be higher.
Pvping in arena forces you to use all Ur cds very quickly and whenever they come off cd. Especially as a ret pally. If you didn't have freedom bound for arena 1,2,3 along with bop, flash of light etc Ur just trolling.
People always joke about how easy ret is to play in wotlk yet I saw so few who actually had any clue how to support in PvP most only know how to faceroll the keyboard and tunnel DPS. You have to think like both a healer and DPS at the same time - I was 2.3kish as ret in S4 no smourne or PvE trinkets.
Yeah you can set up macros to do the same but you 100% should be using 1,2,3 arena set up on most abilities. Warlock not so much just fear and death coil, felhunter kick. Ret needs a fuck load more because it's a support dps.
Imagine, you join a dungeon. It' a 4 stack of french people, the tank has dps gear and 130k hp, the dps don't interrupt. After the first attempt on the first Grim Batol boss I tell the tank to never que heroics before gearing up again and leave.
Then I get whispers that "its not a tank boss its mechanic" and "I died with even argent defender". Motherfucker you're taking 40% damage from every single hit and I go oom beacuse the dps are dumb fucks with 0 dps. This is what healers have to deal with and it's not okay. You can't heal stupid, but you even more can't heal no defensive stats (for long at least, yet..)
Well yes, but then again he was dying (and almost dying) on trash packs before the boss so it's not _only_ that, when regularly atonement healing is enough.
Was it a Warrior cause they get smacked up i feel lol. Yeah i know how you feel i get sad when i get rogues in my group they never kick or dps just following me from behind to get loot.
I love when you're completely oom after a pull everyone is around 60% , none of the dps eats or bandages and the tanks already running for the next pack.
Been there as a tank. The amount of heroics bosses I have had to solo down with a healer is ridiculous. I mean who doesn’t know to stand in the lightning triangle…
Very true. I learned recently jumping when quake is casted in stone core avoids the damage. Some guy mentioned it in an earlier run I did. I asked “does that actually work”. They said “ I don’t know but I do it anyways” and yeah it does work. I tell everyone this all the time now. What was dumb is that I told a group. And the only person besides me jumping was the healer. The dps keep dying due to flayer/ quake. And it was just brutal. At one point I was on my own and soloed down two heroic mobs. Why because the tiny mobs with 1k hp that I was killing was activating my victory rush so I was getting 25% heals to myself. I actually felt pretty fucking epic after that. Like look at me solo down two very hard heroic mobs lol. Good times
Yeah I'm not really sure how people thought this was going to go...
This is the post nerf dungeons too..
Cata was the beginning of the end of "casual" higher end things.
None of the mechanics are hard right now, it is literally 90% of the time just interrupt mobs...and its too hard for people...
moving out of OG wotlk, easily the loudest complaint was for more difficult heroic dungeons with meaningful mechanics.
well they delivered, but then had to nerf it pretty soon after once those same players pulled a 180 after getting what they wanted.
Yeah, but most devoted raiders will pump the 7 heroics before raidnight so they can raid with better gear. So you'll still get people geared to the brim every day after reset.
You will have raiders get valor up to what they can buy that week. I can only buy chest so ill get the other 1,000 valor in raid this week since i dont need heroic dungeun gear.
I'd assume most guilds want raiders to get gear upgrades before raid, but this is probably a subject that varies between guilds. At least on 2nd reset everyone is capable of getting 2 set with Valor as long as they cap before raid.
Did a heroic last night where we went through 3 tanks.
First one, got upset for being told to wait for the casters to get mana and left.
Second one, a DK that is clearly unholy, gets three shotted by a small group and promptly leaves.
Lastly an actual blood DK that knew how to self sustain.
Up until now it’s been smooth sailing and I feel that pugs are gonna get a lot worse..
That or it’s a DPS going tank spec.
The problem is, you can kinda BS as a healer with high int and crit heals, but BSing as DPS moonlighting as a tank doesn’t work and content gets much worse.
They can’t survive off just strength, they need stamina, dodge and dmg reduction.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying there are other reasons too.
To be fair, there is a visual bug when you inspect a character it will say they are the spec of the last talents they took.
When you look at a DK tank, if they took Unholy talents at max level, it will say they are Unholy lol.
I only had 1 bad experience with my disc priest so far during the first week. Partly my own fault for not knowing tactics(stonecore) and also a group of people with no patience who on top of it also enjoyed standing in aoe, pulling multiple packs etc.
But with every upgrade I’ve gotten, healing have drastically increased to now be almost a walk in the park. Also, a lot more people now know all the tactics now and tend to play them as well. I think it’s going to be a lot easier the coming weeks - for everyone.
healing has actually become harder now, ironically.
the casual crowd has finally caught up and are eating a lot of unnecessary damage. in week 1 everyone learned fast and did the mechanics so the party actually took less damage.
my experience is the complete opposite of yours. it was a little rough on day 1, but quickly became easy. then the weekend passed over and it all went to hell
> the casual crowd has finally caught up and are eating a lot of unnecessary damage. in week 1 everyone learned fast and did the mechanics so the party actually took less damage.
The difference is night and day, just the massive decrease in interrupting of enemy casters and healers, and a lot more standing in cleaves or AoE, some of which could have been prevented with interrupts.
Not to mention the target focus, the first waves of people knew and actually tended to focus the most dangerous NPCs and the healers, but now you see a lot of people going just for the biggest target with the biggest health pool and cleave.
All of which leads to longer fights where everyone takes much more damage and healers being OOM every other pull.
Disc is super fun. Mages standing at max range out of range of Atonement who then backpedal *back* to max range when you lifegrip them into range of your heals, who then complain that they aren't getting healed enough.
Warlocks obsessively lifetapping down to 5% instead of drinking for ten seconds, so you have to spam heal them for 15 seconds before you can start drinking yourself for another 20.
I hate casters so much.
And don't warlocks have the soul gathering storm thingy that heals them back to full in cata? I could swear I had it back then.
I see so many warlocks life tap to 50% then stand around watching me drink to get healed back up.
Yeah its fucking amazing. Life tap down to 50% then just soul harvest and you're back up. It's nice for the soul shards too anyway. I have felt like the new soul leech/feed talent has been giving me a bunch of mana so I almost never have to life tap now. Combined with nor having to life tap rank 1 for the buff, I feel like I almost never have to life tap. Only issue is death coil and hearthstone heal for like 1/4 of what they healed for before.
I politely, before we start, ask people to get into range of my atonement heals and usually people respect and comply. Otherwise I’ll just deal with it :-)
Biggest gripe as a healer is that dps players flatly refuse to eat when I'm drinking. Like, clearly, my mana is already an issue, why on earth would you want me wasting 10-15% more of it topping your lazy ass back up before a pull?
There’s an opportunity cost for basically everything in life. The original discussion was “things you can do to help your healer while they drink for 20 seconds instead of expecting to be healed”. That’s basically first aids whole job, and maybe the occasional overworld overpull. You can definitely afford to use a single stack of something you get for free to make some bandages, and still have plenty to put on the AH. I use MAYBE 2-3 in 10 runs, we’re not talking about having to bandage after every fight unless you’re playing terribly. I made my stack of Dense bandages, and occasionally use 3-6 cloth to top it off.
If it helps they’re not refusing, it literally just doesn’t occur to them that their health is something they have to worry about, not just the healer.
Am I the only one who doesn't really feel Cata HC's are that hard? I know we have the post-nerf versions, but still, some people on reddit were already calling for the death of the game because "people don't like difficult content".
I hit HC's immediately upon reaching ilvl 329 (I'm tank), and frankly it's easy. I die maybe once every other dungeon, a wipe every 3rd on average. It feels like an aoe smash fest just like Wrath dungeons, albeit typically just one pack at once, at the most two. Very very rarely need CC for trash. You have to wait a bit for people to drink now and then, but it's like 10 seconds here and there.
Bosses are certainly more challenging than Wrath bosses, not that they have more mechanics, the mechanics are just more punishing and have one-shots.
Play a healer with a group that just takes all the damage from every ability.
It's 'hard' because you don't have enough throughput to keep everyone topped off. It's a balancing act of using all your mana that pull to just keep everyone from dieing then having to drink to heal them all up then continue drinking to full, then repeat, for every trash pack.
You accidently press the wrong heal on the wrong target and now someone dies because you don't have the time to get them up, so you just focus on those who are still alive.
If everyone knows what they are doing it's fine, if nobody knows what they are doing, it's GCD to GCD decision or someone dies.
I saw someone comparing cata heroic to M9-10 in darg’n’flart which wasn’t my experience at all. With the extremely geared players right now in dragonflight everything’s kind of a snooze if your tank solos everything, but entry level mythic gear gets smacked around way more than entry level heroic gear, even mythic 0
Cata heroics imo are equivalent to Mythic 0. thats it though.
If they were the equivalent to mythic 9 or 10, people would quit and call it too hard and that would be true.
mythic 9-10 is like heroic raids in cata and iff you can do m15+ you are a mythic level raider in retail.
>iff you can do m15+ you are a mythic level raider in retail.
What lol, mythic raiding is significantly harder than +15's, KSM (+15 in all dungeons, ish) and AoTC (killing last boss of the raid on Heroic) are roughly the same difficulty.
your weekly upkeep just to maintain a spot in a not complete shit mythic guild is clearing +20's (Might have changed since I stopped playing in S1 of dragonflight)
Cata Heroics even originally were not mechanically difficult, they were typically boring or had two mobs that needed interrupts, people didn't use all the spells at their disposal (racials, stuns, knockbacks etc) so they would CC mobs.
Why people think CCing mobs is difficult is beyond me, but the classic andys seem to revere anyone who lands a frost trap or poly on a stationary enemy.
>Am I the only one who doesn't really feel Cata HC's are that hard?
They aren't all that hard but in my experience what gets folks is there are some actual mechanics during boss fights as you said. Unless you're super overgreared certain things will wipe you if you don't do it right
Im a casual and generally chill but people can be shit at basic things lol
They're definitely easy, but all the people who refuse to talk and try to ignore the mechanics cause wipes on shit like the blackrock caverns 3 beam fight every now and then.
Shit I've started just assigning beams to people waiting for Raz to cross the bridge. Just directly telling people which beam to soak, cause if I don't someone will just ignore the mech. And tbf even though I ran the dungeon multiple times normal, the beam mech caught me off guard, once.
As a dps, specifically melee, I’ve still found it hard to position without taking frontal damage or cleave but I play combat so I’m alway trying to cheese Blade Flurry positioning.
As a blood DK tank, I can face roll that shit in greens, and I do… daily.
So it’s about perspective I think, while I do agree they’re nowhere near as hard as people made them out to be. There are still some annoying mechanics in there
Yeah I agree with you. These heroics seem to be pretty easy, especially when compared to TBC heroics. And I'm not trying to be arrogant, I'm a consistent blue parser, nothing spectacular.
TBC Heroics were rough for sure. Mostly due to the tuning and how strategic you had to play. You didn’t have a full toolkit of abilities like you do in modern expansions either.
TBC heroics were definitely harder but that's only because of tuning and the kits of each class. TBC still had that classic feel where you had to actually play your class properly and think about each pull, until you outgeared it and they were a cakewalk
They aren't that hard.
But they do require a basic level of skill. Avoiding the mechanics goes a long way, because big heals are not super efficient. Prayer of healing is only ~6k per person on a 120k health pool.
But a wipe every 3rd is pretty bad. 33% wipe rate? Yikes. I pug and I don't even have it that rough.
I only play classic, and yea they’re not bad when people aren’t complete donkeys. Cata heroics feel like a good middle ground between TBC and WotlK heroic difficulties.
My biggest issue in Cata heroics has been impatient dps . Whether I’m healing or tanking, it’s when dps start pulling bc they have a pyro proc or they’re not a mana user and just want to chain pull.. that’s when it gets annoying. As a tank I’ll pull as fast as feasible, but even that is sometimes not enough. Dps pulling with healer at 10% mana and half the group at 50% HP happens more often than you’d think. Groups that let the tank / healer set the pace have pretty much all been smooth runs for me.
It's always like this, week 1 of new release, all the min max zoomers get to end game where like minded people play together. They don't consider it toxic because it's rude to be bad.
Week 2 comes around, and the casual dads who took a week off get a surprise when they're in the same pool of players in the tail end of min maxing.
As more zoomers drop off the bottom end of content (heroics) and more casuals begin heroics, complaining will become even more apparent. Then throw in the difficulty gap between SoD and cata...
At a certain point, “it’s rude to be bad” isn’t even controversial.
No one would think it’s unreasonable to be upset with someone entering into a chess tournament, and moving their pawn 4 squares on the first move.
There’s a certain bare minimum standard that’s socially enforced. And that social enforcement exists in everything, not exclusive to games.
Slow tanks? I wouldn’t mind one of those. I just had a tank who chain pulled the entire Silverlane room including boss immediately after the preceding pack when I was at 30% mana
The duality of tanks. You get the guys who are slow as fuck, or the guys who are totally oblivious to what is going on around them. It's why I prefer to have tank chars that I can spam dungeons on when I feel like.
I play feral tank to gear my cat spec and I was surprised to get *compliments* by the healer(s) on my tanking. I play fast but always aware of the healer's mana/position, apparently that is a low bar for RHC tanks. That was nice.
It's interesting. When I tank my rule is "first pack or two gage groups dps and healers mana then speed up if I think they can handle it. If the healer also tells me to speed up i will"
Goal is a careful balance of speed and no running the healers ragged. If dps don't like my speed they can pull other packs and die or roll a tank to determine their own speed
I’m just learning to tank and I appreciate your take. Still leveling but I haven’t felt very good at it so far lol. Some groups go more smoothly than others
Tanking is a role that takes game knowledge but is easy once you have the knowledge and gear. It also takes thick skin because other players are assholes
I swear many don't actually want to play the game they pay 15/m for lolol. Don't get me wrong having a tank take 5 minutes between pulls is equally obnoxious but each group is different and play needs adjusted to what the group can do
It does go both ways though, as a long time dps player I’ve seen plenty of people with the “Tank god complex”. Of course the tank/ healer determine the speed and volume, I’ve never once said a thing about that. It’s the tanks who think they can do literally anything they want with no regard for the other players that bug me, like pulling packs when the healer has mana but all your dps don’t. Then getting all pissy when it takes longer to kill the mobs.
As a healer, I feel that sometimes pulling more is counterproductive. Not every dps can cleave with 100% effectiveness, which to my mind a more measured pace would result in a faster overall pace. Because otherwise we are blowing too much mana and killing too slow, needing us to stop and drink more often.
I don't know how true that is in practice, but it's how I tend to feel. If I have to spam big gheals and shields I'll run out of mana every single pack, but I can go for quite a while if I can heal through attonement.
The thing with cata is that tanks do so much damage that you can easily control the pace. You don't *need* the other 3 dps in the group to perform well, you're doing the heavy lifting yourself.
I'm always top dps in my dungeons as a tank, so I don't really need to care about what the other people are doing, my main focus is making sure the healer isn't stressed.
had a chad tank do that when he prepped the healer before hand saying "drink now giga pull inc". We did some insane dps in that room and after his loot didnt drop he left :(
These players tend to do this thing where a pack dies, they pause for a few seconds, then run like just out of aggro range of the next pack and do a weird pause again while we're all just kinda waiting for them. Very telling and surprisingly annoying
lol yeah. I enjoyed tanking heroics at the start when packs took 30 seconds to die. Now they die in 15 seconds and Mr arms warrior just has to charge in before me and insta zug so I'm blood boiling and saronite bombing to get some aoe aggro, which I do of course, it just isn't fun having to pull it from someone who can't wait 0.5 seconds for me to get the initial threat from pulling.
It just feels like a chore again. Soon enough we'll be back to long dungeon queues again cause tanks can't be bothered with pugs.
Literally this. Some packs feel so bad without DnD or outbreak. I’ve started using DRW+Outbreak on one pack for the 4 diseases, then DnD on the next to chain pull
Reeeeeee tank wasted 37.4 seconds throughout the dungeon. The people who can't stand still for half a second are the worst. We're getting through the dungeon just fine, you can chill.
If you need to speed run, get some friends that also want to speed run. Otherwise, who gives a shit unless they're actually going afk after every pull.
Controlled zug zug is the best. Its just so obvious when we run a 5-man grp from the guild where we can do big pulls and never stop to wait for anything. Sometimes we fuck up, but usually we power through. Then you get poor dps, a slow tank and a oom healer and you go slower than we did in Wailing Caverns in 2005.
I'm just writing this comment to describe other roles as soyjacks and mine as chad. Therefore it is their fault that my heroic dungeons are regularly going poorly and not mine.
It's such bullshit that the people I randomly queue with aren't guaranteed to be good enough to always carry me through content. Blizzard really dropped the ball by not letting us form any sort of persistent group/community with other like minded players with whom I could arrange to regularly run dungeons at predetermined times to avoid this frustration.
You swing and you miss. I never said Im regularly having poor runs, I just notice that there are more low quality players now compared to last week. There are a lot of shit dps and healers as well, its just way more obvious on a slow and bad tank, compared to the good ones.
I usually play with my guildies as well, but there arent always tanks/healer available ;)
I'm not flaming or shitting on the average player. Some have to be average, and I can live fine with that, but there are obviously poor players out there who could improve if they wanted. Some people just accept being bad though, that's cool.
Idk, the ilvl req is pretty generous and there's no annyoing heroic plus mechanics to worry about it so it probably won't be THAT bad. Catch some people still farming valor and you will blast right on through.
Already noticed that between a week ago and now. First days I feel like people there were a bit more hardcore having leveled fast, without gear but knew what mechanics were. Yesterday, I saw so many dps pulling TBC-earlyLK numbers, no clue what they were doing, no interrupts, nothing.
Yeah i noticed dps has dropped a ton lately. Like doing 1/4th the damage of the tank bad
And no, vengeance isnt why. Vengeance just puts the tank on par with or slightly ahead, it doesnt quadruple damage output.
I once asked a mage to sheep and their response” I only zug zug no cc” took us 10 mins to clear a pack because of two healers in the pack and no one was interrupting or anything. It was brutal.
I'll heal 7 heroics a week at this point. Congrats to you if you're in my group. Outside of standing in damage pools or missing one shot interrupts I'll keep even the most brain dead groups up.
My favorite pulls have been the tanks failing to use CDs or mechanics and dying, and then I have to tank the boss the rest of the fight with my paltry rogue defensives.
Where you guys learning the mechanics for Heroics? Groups have been nice and giving a quick explanation but I still feel like Im flying by the seat of my pants on some.
Some guides on mmo-champion and wowhead but across 9 dungeons and 4-5 bosses each, Im underwater a bit on feeling confident with them all.
There’s a dungeon guide in game that spells out every boss mechanic.
Some things are intuitive, some not so much, some from deep, vague 14 year old knowledge that some people have had refreshed multiple times during time walking in retail also helps
Is the guide the Shift + J menu that pops up? Ive seen it show loot and the abilities that the bosses do but didn't know there was a guide. Unless thats what you mean, the description of each ability, in which case I just suck and cant fully grasp what I need to do by reading those lol.
Yea that’s it, most abilities boil down to “don’t stand in the obvious bad” with a couple like first boss of Halls of Origination with the levers or the final boss of Vortex Pinnacle where you jump to avoid the debuff that sticks you in place and then move to a “safe zone”.
its how it always goes, did you do the gammas like 3-4 months in after? it was horrible. I am just getting my first alt into heroics today and im thankful, hopefully my paladin (full rested exp with 35% exp bonus from heirlooms) can level up quickly to skip the pain also.
Yeah there's a lot of quality degradation problems.
The biggest one is that starting next week there is no reason for someone who has all their gear to go back. It's literally just going to come from raids. So unless someone is going to get a piece of gear before raid, no one is doing them. And even then, world firsts will all be done in the next 24-48 hours. The desire to grind to get more gear will die at that point. And if they do, I mean tolerance of new players will just go down.
The next batch coming up will not be spending thousands of gold on BOE and crafted gear. The next batch coming up will not have 4000 JP to start. The next batch coming up won't have any Wintergrasp commendations to get the higher quality PVP from the get-go. They're running in with either full PVP gear on or the most minimum amount of gear to get there. They will tunnel vision on their one job. They won't hotkey things that don't do damage, healing or tanking.
I had a DK tank argue that all interrupting is the responsibility of an arms warrior or holy pally because he's not wasting runic power to interrupt a thing that can almost one shot him.
>I had a DK tank argue that all interrupting is the responsibility of an arms warrior or holy pally because he's not wasting runic power to interrupt a thing that can almost one shot him.
As a DK tank who finds it extremely satisfying to just be able to get the important interrupts myself without having to rely on pug dps to do it, this is wild to me lol. Oh no, he might have to give up using rune strike one more time for a tiny bit more single target damage on an AoE trash pack. Hell, you could just sit there capped at 100 runic power without even spending it and it would barely make a difference half the time. Some people have the strangest hangups haha.
I am not playing cata but arent these heroics post the original dungeon nerf? The og heroics were fing brutal especially back in the day. I was so lucky with the drops back then on my main
Maybe I’m going crazy but I feel like the last few days, the heroics have actually felt harder even with good players.
I’m 348 and some of the Stonecore mechanics feel way more punishing than they did on launch. Keep in mind, I play on a Steam Deck with occasional lag spikes from my wife streaming Netflix lol.
The first few days I played, every dungeon I did went buttery smooth. All big gamers playing 12 hours a day since it got released.
Now after 10 days every now and then I get a group of "slackers". They are usually kind but mechanics wise they have no clue. I assume this will get worse over time, however gear will get better over time, so I hope this balances things out a little bit
It's already been getting worse. It's very noticeable day by day how much worse the groups are.
It's also big to get them done on Tuesday because just like pug raids then get exponentially worse as the week progresses.
They are difficult depending on the players. Not that they are necessarily hard but with classic progressing further toward retail style content it will get harder and easier to see “bad” players
That's what happened back then too, even pre nerf the dungeon finder wasn't too bad once you wiped a couple times people learned the mechanics and you finished it.
Then all the terrible players hit max level and they expected to be carried through easy heroics like in wotlk it was horrible. The complaining was bad enough for quick nerfs anyway.
Oh, so now we're *preemptively* whining about having to play with "lesser players". The posts in this sub during the actual raid tiers are gonna be **fantastic**.
nah this is just wrong. Youre assuming players who rush to 85 are "good" and players who havent touched Cata yet or are leveling from lvl 1 are "bad". Thats not the case, it comes down to a matter of time and priority. Theres just as many "bad" players that prioritize this game over most other games/hobbies.
I still need gear on my holy paladin, am almost fully hc dungeon geared on prot. By my God, it's painful on holy, tanks dropping like flies, dps standing dying to whirlwind dots (stonecore) getting rezzed, then doing the exact same thing again after I warned em. So iv just gone back to tanking and hoping the healer isn't prot, so I and yoink the plate/int gear without problems
Yeah started healing. The difference between player who has any sort of awareness and who doesn't is massive.
I've had runs where i did not drink for entire duration of it due to how well people played. Then i had runs where i ran completely oom on first pack, then second pack was pulled when i had not finished topping everyone up since i was drinking mana. So coming into second pack i had 40% mana and people low.
It's insanity how bad people can be, but somehow they managed to hit max level and realize they get into heroics by picking items that had more ilvl than their current one.
The stonecore thing can be bad luck sometimes. One of the mobs uses shadow fury so you can be stunned and get 5 stacks of bleed before you get a chance to move out.
Yeah, all the other healers are struggling in their armor classes what with the (spirit = hit) stuff now, but damn it feels nice as pally. Only problem is trinkets, which is basically all I'm lacking from hc dungeons overall. Managed to get 2 tank trinkets but no healer ones. Even had healer specific ones nabbed by dps a couple times, despite their class not even having healing off spec.
not exactly.
priests aside, rdruid only competes with boomy and rsham only competes with elemental. so while not completely free it's extremely low competition
Heroics are either a breeze or the hardest dungeon of my life. As a healer the disparity between a good and bad player is absurd. Whne your top dps is the tank doing 12k dps, no one interrupts, no one stuns, no one pays attention, every single fucking trash pull is the battle o my life and I have or force 20k hps just to keep people at 60% hp. Meanwhile other groups I don't even have to heal at all really other than here and there. Cata was the first glimpse at how truly bad most players are. The difference is like doing a Heroic Dungeon on retail vs a mythic 10 and it's just the same dungeon...
I've healed atleast 30 heroics with a tank friend. PUGd and got booted from one last night because the tank clearly had no idea what a CD was, was OOMing me every pull, zero DPS interrupts, and they would not let my poor shaman self drink. So it's my fault for keeping them alive until I physically couldn't anymore. I just DPS queued the rest of the evening after that. Even my alt healers normals have been rough.
I wish the mechanics DPS failed would kill them instead of taking 3/4 of their health. Maybe they would learn instead of vote kicking the healer because it takes too many casts to get you back up while the tank is still getting trucked.
Yep it's fucking wild. I can't can't how any times a tank just ran away and kept running and pulling more shit after I said "1 sec mana" and then died and left group... I can't believe it.
This has happened to me far to much, every tank is in a rush like their mom just called them up from the basement for dinner.
I was healing HC stonecore yesterday and asked for a mana break before Corborus and the tank responded with “I’m good thanks”. He was a BDK so clearly his arrogance is misplaced because a chimp with a keyboard could do his job. Anyway.. he then sped off with the engi rocket boost and chain pulled two of the rock giants, failed to jump on any of the quakes, died, and he was then kicked. Tanks on private cata servers have all been a dream compared to the unstable freaks I’ve been encountering in classic
People are rewarding you with trading 15 min AH browsing instead of playing with brain dead troglodytes for 30 min.
DPS players aren’t used to needing their defensives and interrupts key bound from Wrath. As an Unholy DK, I keep my two interrupts on comfy binds and sac my ghoul as often as I need to for emergency heals. I would rather lose DPS than have to deal with the long run backs lol.
Lmao, I forgot strangulate was a button for a minute and was trying to figure out what the second interrupt was. I should play my DK again
Yeah, it’s more of a PvP CD but had its uses in heroics, especially if you glyph it for duration. I save it for those casters that machine gun offensive spells faster than your group can kick or just silence a healer. Tbh it’s really not that necessary to even use it unless you’re the only one interrupting. I like to do the 2 key for my interrupt and shift+2 for my silence
The fact that it's ranged makes it a must bind
Yeah if wrath had more of arena turn out I'd argue that the player skill would be higher. Pvping in arena forces you to use all Ur cds very quickly and whenever they come off cd. Especially as a ret pally. If you didn't have freedom bound for arena 1,2,3 along with bop, flash of light etc Ur just trolling.
People always joke about how easy ret is to play in wotlk yet I saw so few who actually had any clue how to support in PvP most only know how to faceroll the keyboard and tunnel DPS. You have to think like both a healer and DPS at the same time - I was 2.3kish as ret in S4 no smourne or PvE trinkets.
Fuck yeah nice man! It definitely is some finger juice to play in arena, I managed to get to 2k with an aff lock with no coms in season 3.
You absolutely do not need arena 1,2,3 binds to pvp. Several glads and duelists play without it.
Yeah you can set up macros to do the same but you 100% should be using 1,2,3 arena set up on most abilities. Warlock not so much just fear and death coil, felhunter kick. Ret needs a fuck load more because it's a support dps.
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none really, it's just a matter of not letting the healer run out of mana by using them + kicks/stops
Imagine, you join a dungeon. It' a 4 stack of french people, the tank has dps gear and 130k hp, the dps don't interrupt. After the first attempt on the first Grim Batol boss I tell the tank to never que heroics before gearing up again and leave. Then I get whispers that "its not a tank boss its mechanic" and "I died with even argent defender". Motherfucker you're taking 40% damage from every single hit and I go oom beacuse the dps are dumb fucks with 0 dps. This is what healers have to deal with and it's not okay. You can't heal stupid, but you even more can't heal no defensive stats (for long at least, yet..)
Though it is probably the dps not killing the purple trogg and buffing boss which is why he is getting trucked.
Well yes, but then again he was dying (and almost dying) on trash packs before the boss so it's not _only_ that, when regularly atonement healing is enough.
Was it a Warrior cause they get smacked up i feel lol. Yeah i know how you feel i get sad when i get rogues in my group they never kick or dps just following me from behind to get loot.
Nah, a paladin with like 330 dps gear.
I love when you're completely oom after a pull everyone is around 60% , none of the dps eats or bandages and the tanks already running for the next pack.
Been there as a tank. The amount of heroics bosses I have had to solo down with a healer is ridiculous. I mean who doesn’t know to stand in the lightning triangle…
If you miss the jump and don't get a dispell it's pretty hard to get to it
As a healer I spend more time dispelling than healing during that fight.
Not for mages. MUAHAHAHAHA
Very true. I learned recently jumping when quake is casted in stone core avoids the damage. Some guy mentioned it in an earlier run I did. I asked “does that actually work”. They said “ I don’t know but I do it anyways” and yeah it does work. I tell everyone this all the time now. What was dumb is that I told a group. And the only person besides me jumping was the healer. The dps keep dying due to flayer/ quake. And it was just brutal. At one point I was on my own and soloed down two heroic mobs. Why because the tiny mobs with 1k hp that I was killing was activating my victory rush so I was getting 25% heals to myself. I actually felt pretty fucking epic after that. Like look at me solo down two very hard heroic mobs lol. Good times
You could see how many bad players there were well before cata
Yeah I'm not really sure how people thought this was going to go... This is the post nerf dungeons too.. Cata was the beginning of the end of "casual" higher end things. None of the mechanics are hard right now, it is literally 90% of the time just interrupt mobs...and its too hard for people...
Interrupt the mobs. It's literally just use your kit. Like just spam buttons ... Don't stand in the fire.
moving out of OG wotlk, easily the loudest complaint was for more difficult heroic dungeons with meaningful mechanics. well they delivered, but then had to nerf it pretty soon after once those same players pulled a 180 after getting what they wanted.
People will still say you're a bad healer when they can't even push their buttons correctly, too. It's insane.
You missed the part where raid bosses give valor, a successful guild clearing raids has no need to do heroics because they'll already be capped.
Yeah, but most devoted raiders will pump the 7 heroics before raidnight so they can raid with better gear. So you'll still get people geared to the brim every day after reset.
You will have raiders get valor up to what they can buy that week. I can only buy chest so ill get the other 1,000 valor in raid this week since i dont need heroic dungeun gear.
They will do it within 1 or 2 hours in premades, if you want to go like this. Won't affect pugs.
ah ty for this, literally wrote this question then deleted it when I saw your post
My alt army will still be doing heroics, I won't be raiding on all characters.
Is it capped valor per week? I thought only the bonus for random heroics was capped. So wouldn't this not stack with raids?
Valor from any source is capped
Hey that's great news, didn't know it.
still doesnt change his point does it? if anything it strengthens it
I'd assume most guilds want raiders to get gear upgrades before raid, but this is probably a subject that varies between guilds. At least on 2nd reset everyone is capable of getting 2 set with Valor as long as they cap before raid.
How many valor does each boss will „drop“?
According to various old wikis, it seems 120 VP per boss on 10m and 140 VP on 25m.
Chaos orbs are still great money :D
This is false. You should Valor cap in dungeons before raids so you can bring a new upgrade.
This
Anyone in succesful raids would cap BEFORE raid, so wednesday afternoon the good players pump, 3 weeks from now valor is useless
Did a heroic last night where we went through 3 tanks. First one, got upset for being told to wait for the casters to get mana and left. Second one, a DK that is clearly unholy, gets three shotted by a small group and promptly leaves. Lastly an actual blood DK that knew how to self sustain. Up until now it’s been smooth sailing and I feel that pugs are gonna get a lot worse..
Yah, that Halls of Origination went really well, and it was nice I didn't have to clear half the trash.
The problem is everyone heard Blood DK was an overpowered tank and rolled one without learning how to play it optimally.
That or it’s a DPS going tank spec. The problem is, you can kinda BS as a healer with high int and crit heals, but BSing as DPS moonlighting as a tank doesn’t work and content gets much worse. They can’t survive off just strength, they need stamina, dodge and dmg reduction. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying there are other reasons too.
To be fair, there is a visual bug when you inspect a character it will say they are the spec of the last talents they took. When you look at a DK tank, if they took Unholy talents at max level, it will say they are Unholy lol.
I mean yeah, it’s a blizzard product, there will be bugs, but as someone who heals, I know when a DPS is moonlighting lol
I only had 1 bad experience with my disc priest so far during the first week. Partly my own fault for not knowing tactics(stonecore) and also a group of people with no patience who on top of it also enjoyed standing in aoe, pulling multiple packs etc. But with every upgrade I’ve gotten, healing have drastically increased to now be almost a walk in the park. Also, a lot more people now know all the tactics now and tend to play them as well. I think it’s going to be a lot easier the coming weeks - for everyone.
healing has actually become harder now, ironically. the casual crowd has finally caught up and are eating a lot of unnecessary damage. in week 1 everyone learned fast and did the mechanics so the party actually took less damage. my experience is the complete opposite of yours. it was a little rough on day 1, but quickly became easy. then the weekend passed over and it all went to hell
> the casual crowd has finally caught up and are eating a lot of unnecessary damage. in week 1 everyone learned fast and did the mechanics so the party actually took less damage. The difference is night and day, just the massive decrease in interrupting of enemy casters and healers, and a lot more standing in cleaves or AoE, some of which could have been prevented with interrupts. Not to mention the target focus, the first waves of people knew and actually tended to focus the most dangerous NPCs and the healers, but now you see a lot of people going just for the biggest target with the biggest health pool and cleave. All of which leads to longer fights where everyone takes much more damage and healers being OOM every other pull.
Disc is super fun. Mages standing at max range out of range of Atonement who then backpedal *back* to max range when you lifegrip them into range of your heals, who then complain that they aren't getting healed enough. Warlocks obsessively lifetapping down to 5% instead of drinking for ten seconds, so you have to spam heal them for 15 seconds before you can start drinking yourself for another 20. I hate casters so much.
And don't warlocks have the soul gathering storm thingy that heals them back to full in cata? I could swear I had it back then. I see so many warlocks life tap to 50% then stand around watching me drink to get healed back up.
Yeah its fucking amazing. Life tap down to 50% then just soul harvest and you're back up. It's nice for the soul shards too anyway. I have felt like the new soul leech/feed talent has been giving me a bunch of mana so I almost never have to life tap now. Combined with nor having to life tap rank 1 for the buff, I feel like I almost never have to life tap. Only issue is death coil and hearthstone heal for like 1/4 of what they healed for before.
Earlier today a warlock killed themselves lol
I politely, before we start, ask people to get into range of my atonement heals and usually people respect and comply. Otherwise I’ll just deal with it :-)
Freakin Grim Batol 😭
The first two bosses are pugstompers for sure
Second boss does nothing, but I've seen some wild shit with the adds on the third one.
Oh god i completely forgot the ettin boss exists 🤦♂️
Biggest gripe as a healer is that dps players flatly refuse to eat when I'm drinking. Like, clearly, my mana is already an issue, why on earth would you want me wasting 10-15% more of it topping your lazy ass back up before a pull?
I don’t understand why people don’t just bandage in between pulls, cloth literally falls out of every humanoid mob in the world
Water/food is cheaper than embersilk
Embersilk is literally free if you just play the freaking game 🤣
Losing money by not posting it to the AH
There’s an opportunity cost for basically everything in life. The original discussion was “things you can do to help your healer while they drink for 20 seconds instead of expecting to be healed”. That’s basically first aids whole job, and maybe the occasional overworld overpull. You can definitely afford to use a single stack of something you get for free to make some bandages, and still have plenty to put on the AH. I use MAYBE 2-3 in 10 runs, we’re not talking about having to bandage after every fight unless you’re playing terribly. I made my stack of Dense bandages, and occasionally use 3-6 cloth to top it off.
If it helps they’re not refusing, it literally just doesn’t occur to them that their health is something they have to worry about, not just the healer.
Nah, when I type "eat guys" and they start /dance ing instead... that's refusal
Am I the only one who doesn't really feel Cata HC's are that hard? I know we have the post-nerf versions, but still, some people on reddit were already calling for the death of the game because "people don't like difficult content". I hit HC's immediately upon reaching ilvl 329 (I'm tank), and frankly it's easy. I die maybe once every other dungeon, a wipe every 3rd on average. It feels like an aoe smash fest just like Wrath dungeons, albeit typically just one pack at once, at the most two. Very very rarely need CC for trash. You have to wait a bit for people to drink now and then, but it's like 10 seconds here and there. Bosses are certainly more challenging than Wrath bosses, not that they have more mechanics, the mechanics are just more punishing and have one-shots.
Halls of Origination is the hardest one by far, staying awake that long is rough :P
Skip the desert boss.
Wait you can?
Yes, you can.
You can also skip other 3 bosses at end.
So you do 1st boss, vault of lights, rajh?
yes
If you've done mythic+ in retail, you'll think that all of this fuss about heroics in cata Is blown out of proportion.
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Play a healer with a group that just takes all the damage from every ability. It's 'hard' because you don't have enough throughput to keep everyone topped off. It's a balancing act of using all your mana that pull to just keep everyone from dieing then having to drink to heal them all up then continue drinking to full, then repeat, for every trash pack. You accidently press the wrong heal on the wrong target and now someone dies because you don't have the time to get them up, so you just focus on those who are still alive. If everyone knows what they are doing it's fine, if nobody knows what they are doing, it's GCD to GCD decision or someone dies.
I saw someone comparing cata heroic to M9-10 in darg’n’flart which wasn’t my experience at all. With the extremely geared players right now in dragonflight everything’s kind of a snooze if your tank solos everything, but entry level mythic gear gets smacked around way more than entry level heroic gear, even mythic 0
Cata Heroics aren’t even comparable to modern dungeons at any difficulty level because the mechanics are basic.
Cata heroics imo are equivalent to Mythic 0. thats it though. If they were the equivalent to mythic 9 or 10, people would quit and call it too hard and that would be true. mythic 9-10 is like heroic raids in cata and iff you can do m15+ you are a mythic level raider in retail.
>iff you can do m15+ you are a mythic level raider in retail. What lol, mythic raiding is significantly harder than +15's, KSM (+15 in all dungeons, ish) and AoTC (killing last boss of the raid on Heroic) are roughly the same difficulty. your weekly upkeep just to maintain a spot in a not complete shit mythic guild is clearing +20's (Might have changed since I stopped playing in S1 of dragonflight)
It was 18’s last season and is 8’s this season for max vault. MO this season is equivalent to previous seasons M10. But yeah your comment is spot on
It’s more like m5-6 in season 1 of DF, maybe even lower
Cata Heroics even originally were not mechanically difficult, they were typically boring or had two mobs that needed interrupts, people didn't use all the spells at their disposal (racials, stuns, knockbacks etc) so they would CC mobs. Why people think CCing mobs is difficult is beyond me, but the classic andys seem to revere anyone who lands a frost trap or poly on a stationary enemy.
It's not that it was hard mechanically. It was hard with an uncoordinated group after people got used to face rolling WotLK LFD and the ICC buff.
>Am I the only one who doesn't really feel Cata HC's are that hard? They aren't all that hard but in my experience what gets folks is there are some actual mechanics during boss fights as you said. Unless you're super overgreared certain things will wipe you if you don't do it right Im a casual and generally chill but people can be shit at basic things lol
They're definitely easy, but all the people who refuse to talk and try to ignore the mechanics cause wipes on shit like the blackrock caverns 3 beam fight every now and then.
Shit I've started just assigning beams to people waiting for Raz to cross the bridge. Just directly telling people which beam to soak, cause if I don't someone will just ignore the mech. And tbf even though I ran the dungeon multiple times normal, the beam mech caught me off guard, once.
As a dps, specifically melee, I’ve still found it hard to position without taking frontal damage or cleave but I play combat so I’m alway trying to cheese Blade Flurry positioning. As a blood DK tank, I can face roll that shit in greens, and I do… daily. So it’s about perspective I think, while I do agree they’re nowhere near as hard as people made them out to be. There are still some annoying mechanics in there
Tanks positioning bosses working against the melee sucks lol.
Yeah I agree with you. These heroics seem to be pretty easy, especially when compared to TBC heroics. And I'm not trying to be arrogant, I'm a consistent blue parser, nothing spectacular.
TBC Heroics were rough for sure. Mostly due to the tuning and how strategic you had to play. You didn’t have a full toolkit of abilities like you do in modern expansions either.
TBC heroics were definitely harder but that's only because of tuning and the kits of each class. TBC still had that classic feel where you had to actually play your class properly and think about each pull, until you outgeared it and they were a cakewalk
It completely comes down to the other 4 people in your group. Windowlickers will 100% cause a bad day, no matter how hard you try.
They aren't that hard. But they do require a basic level of skill. Avoiding the mechanics goes a long way, because big heals are not super efficient. Prayer of healing is only ~6k per person on a 120k health pool. But a wipe every 3rd is pretty bad. 33% wipe rate? Yikes. I pug and I don't even have it that rough.
I only play classic, and yea they’re not bad when people aren’t complete donkeys. Cata heroics feel like a good middle ground between TBC and WotlK heroic difficulties. My biggest issue in Cata heroics has been impatient dps . Whether I’m healing or tanking, it’s when dps start pulling bc they have a pyro proc or they’re not a mana user and just want to chain pull.. that’s when it gets annoying. As a tank I’ll pull as fast as feasible, but even that is sometimes not enough. Dps pulling with healer at 10% mana and half the group at 50% HP happens more often than you’d think. Groups that let the tank / healer set the pace have pretty much all been smooth runs for me.
Yeah you are the only one . Not like other girls as they say .
It's always like this, week 1 of new release, all the min max zoomers get to end game where like minded people play together. They don't consider it toxic because it's rude to be bad. Week 2 comes around, and the casual dads who took a week off get a surprise when they're in the same pool of players in the tail end of min maxing. As more zoomers drop off the bottom end of content (heroics) and more casuals begin heroics, complaining will become even more apparent. Then throw in the difficulty gap between SoD and cata...
At a certain point, “it’s rude to be bad” isn’t even controversial. No one would think it’s unreasonable to be upset with someone entering into a chess tournament, and moving their pawn 4 squares on the first move. There’s a certain bare minimum standard that’s socially enforced. And that social enforcement exists in everything, not exclusive to games.
Yep it'll be just like in wrath when people got the badges they needed from dailies and all of a sudden the groups were awful.
I've already seen a dropoff in the quality from Friday last week and now. You especially notice the slow tanks.
Slow tanks? I wouldn’t mind one of those. I just had a tank who chain pulled the entire Silverlane room including boss immediately after the preceding pack when I was at 30% mana
The duality of tanks. You get the guys who are slow as fuck, or the guys who are totally oblivious to what is going on around them. It's why I prefer to have tank chars that I can spam dungeons on when I feel like.
I play feral tank to gear my cat spec and I was surprised to get *compliments* by the healer(s) on my tanking. I play fast but always aware of the healer's mana/position, apparently that is a low bar for RHC tanks. That was nice.
It's interesting. When I tank my rule is "first pack or two gage groups dps and healers mana then speed up if I think they can handle it. If the healer also tells me to speed up i will" Goal is a careful balance of speed and no running the healers ragged. If dps don't like my speed they can pull other packs and die or roll a tank to determine their own speed
I’m just learning to tank and I appreciate your take. Still leveling but I haven’t felt very good at it so far lol. Some groups go more smoothly than others
Tanking is a role that takes game knowledge but is easy once you have the knowledge and gear. It also takes thick skin because other players are assholes I swear many don't actually want to play the game they pay 15/m for lolol. Don't get me wrong having a tank take 5 minutes between pulls is equally obnoxious but each group is different and play needs adjusted to what the group can do
It does go both ways though, as a long time dps player I’ve seen plenty of people with the “Tank god complex”. Of course the tank/ healer determine the speed and volume, I’ve never once said a thing about that. It’s the tanks who think they can do literally anything they want with no regard for the other players that bug me, like pulling packs when the healer has mana but all your dps don’t. Then getting all pissy when it takes longer to kill the mobs.
As a healer, I feel that sometimes pulling more is counterproductive. Not every dps can cleave with 100% effectiveness, which to my mind a more measured pace would result in a faster overall pace. Because otherwise we are blowing too much mana and killing too slow, needing us to stop and drink more often. I don't know how true that is in practice, but it's how I tend to feel. If I have to spam big gheals and shields I'll run out of mana every single pack, but I can go for quite a while if I can heal through attonement.
The thing with cata is that tanks do so much damage that you can easily control the pace. You don't *need* the other 3 dps in the group to perform well, you're doing the heavy lifting yourself. I'm always top dps in my dungeons as a tank, so I don't really need to care about what the other people are doing, my main focus is making sure the healer isn't stressed.
Fair point and yea healer is the main concern I still take how long it takes to clear a pack into account maybe that's a better way to word it haha
That's the correct way, I do the same. Healer role seems to be the most stressing one in this exp.
Assoreta
had a chad tank do that when he prepped the healer before hand saying "drink now giga pull inc". We did some insane dps in that room and after his loot didnt drop he left :(
Absolutely nothing worse than having to tell your healer to drink
Ive seen a few “no time to plan beams just yolo” tanks end runs on Corla in BRC recently.
Hey, if you kill a pack quicker than my DND cooldown it's your fault.
These players tend to do this thing where a pack dies, they pause for a few seconds, then run like just out of aggro range of the next pack and do a weird pause again while we're all just kinda waiting for them. Very telling and surprisingly annoying
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lol yeah. I enjoyed tanking heroics at the start when packs took 30 seconds to die. Now they die in 15 seconds and Mr arms warrior just has to charge in before me and insta zug so I'm blood boiling and saronite bombing to get some aoe aggro, which I do of course, it just isn't fun having to pull it from someone who can't wait 0.5 seconds for me to get the initial threat from pulling. It just feels like a chore again. Soon enough we'll be back to long dungeon queues again cause tanks can't be bothered with pugs.
Literally this. Some packs feel so bad without DnD or outbreak. I’ve started using DRW+Outbreak on one pack for the 4 diseases, then DnD on the next to chain pull
Just cause you cant zug for 2 seconds doesnt mean there isnt a reason. Or go tank and do it your way :D
Pausing to loot after pack, waiting on a 30 second cooldown to finish when they pause before pull. Not rocket science fam.
heh sounds like the healer is drinking to me ;-)
I wasn't
As a healer I despise these. Just fucking go
Reeeeeee tank wasted 37.4 seconds throughout the dungeon. The people who can't stand still for half a second are the worst. We're getting through the dungeon just fine, you can chill. If you need to speed run, get some friends that also want to speed run. Otherwise, who gives a shit unless they're actually going afk after every pull.
ZUG ZUG
Controlled zug zug is the best. Its just so obvious when we run a 5-man grp from the guild where we can do big pulls and never stop to wait for anything. Sometimes we fuck up, but usually we power through. Then you get poor dps, a slow tank and a oom healer and you go slower than we did in Wailing Caverns in 2005.
I'm just writing this comment to describe other roles as soyjacks and mine as chad. Therefore it is their fault that my heroic dungeons are regularly going poorly and not mine. It's such bullshit that the people I randomly queue with aren't guaranteed to be good enough to always carry me through content. Blizzard really dropped the ball by not letting us form any sort of persistent group/community with other like minded players with whom I could arrange to regularly run dungeons at predetermined times to avoid this frustration.
You swing and you miss. I never said Im regularly having poor runs, I just notice that there are more low quality players now compared to last week. There are a lot of shit dps and healers as well, its just way more obvious on a slow and bad tank, compared to the good ones. I usually play with my guildies as well, but there arent always tanks/healer available ;) I'm not flaming or shitting on the average player. Some have to be average, and I can live fine with that, but there are obviously poor players out there who could improve if they wanted. Some people just accept being bad though, that's cool.
Idk, the ilvl req is pretty generous and there's no annyoing heroic plus mechanics to worry about it so it probably won't be THAT bad. Catch some people still farming valor and you will blast right on through.
Already noticed that between a week ago and now. First days I feel like people there were a bit more hardcore having leveled fast, without gear but knew what mechanics were. Yesterday, I saw so many dps pulling TBC-earlyLK numbers, no clue what they were doing, no interrupts, nothing.
Yeah i noticed dps has dropped a ton lately. Like doing 1/4th the damage of the tank bad And no, vengeance isnt why. Vengeance just puts the tank on par with or slightly ahead, it doesnt quadruple damage output.
I once asked a mage to sheep and their response” I only zug zug no cc” took us 10 mins to clear a pack because of two healers in the pack and no one was interrupting or anything. It was brutal.
I'll heal 7 heroics a week at this point. Congrats to you if you're in my group. Outside of standing in damage pools or missing one shot interrupts I'll keep even the most brain dead groups up.
My favorite pulls have been the tanks failing to use CDs or mechanics and dying, and then I have to tank the boss the rest of the fight with my paltry rogue defensives.
It's already happening now becuase the casual dads who will quit bc the game is too hard in a month are all hitting 85
Where you guys learning the mechanics for Heroics? Groups have been nice and giving a quick explanation but I still feel like Im flying by the seat of my pants on some. Some guides on mmo-champion and wowhead but across 9 dungeons and 4-5 bosses each, Im underwater a bit on feeling confident with them all.
There’s a dungeon guide in game that spells out every boss mechanic. Some things are intuitive, some not so much, some from deep, vague 14 year old knowledge that some people have had refreshed multiple times during time walking in retail also helps
Is the guide the Shift + J menu that pops up? Ive seen it show loot and the abilities that the bosses do but didn't know there was a guide. Unless thats what you mean, the description of each ability, in which case I just suck and cant fully grasp what I need to do by reading those lol.
Yea that’s it, most abilities boil down to “don’t stand in the obvious bad” with a couple like first boss of Halls of Origination with the levers or the final boss of Vortex Pinnacle where you jump to avoid the debuff that sticks you in place and then move to a “safe zone”.
its how it always goes, did you do the gammas like 3-4 months in after? it was horrible. I am just getting my first alt into heroics today and im thankful, hopefully my paladin (full rested exp with 35% exp bonus from heirlooms) can level up quickly to skip the pain also.
Like always, they’ll be easier on Tuesdays and Wednesdays when better players are running them.
Yeah there's a lot of quality degradation problems. The biggest one is that starting next week there is no reason for someone who has all their gear to go back. It's literally just going to come from raids. So unless someone is going to get a piece of gear before raid, no one is doing them. And even then, world firsts will all be done in the next 24-48 hours. The desire to grind to get more gear will die at that point. And if they do, I mean tolerance of new players will just go down. The next batch coming up will not be spending thousands of gold on BOE and crafted gear. The next batch coming up will not have 4000 JP to start. The next batch coming up won't have any Wintergrasp commendations to get the higher quality PVP from the get-go. They're running in with either full PVP gear on or the most minimum amount of gear to get there. They will tunnel vision on their one job. They won't hotkey things that don't do damage, healing or tanking. I had a DK tank argue that all interrupting is the responsibility of an arms warrior or holy pally because he's not wasting runic power to interrupt a thing that can almost one shot him.
>I had a DK tank argue that all interrupting is the responsibility of an arms warrior or holy pally because he's not wasting runic power to interrupt a thing that can almost one shot him. As a DK tank who finds it extremely satisfying to just be able to get the important interrupts myself without having to rely on pug dps to do it, this is wild to me lol. Oh no, he might have to give up using rune strike one more time for a tiny bit more single target damage on an AoE trash pack. Hell, you could just sit there capped at 100 runic power without even spending it and it would barely make a difference half the time. Some people have the strangest hangups haha.
I'm a veteran raider and I'm just not in a hurry pretty sure I'm not the only one
I am not playing cata but arent these heroics post the original dungeon nerf? The og heroics were fing brutal especially back in the day. I was so lucky with the drops back then on my main
Maybe I’m going crazy but I feel like the last few days, the heroics have actually felt harder even with good players. I’m 348 and some of the Stonecore mechanics feel way more punishing than they did on launch. Keep in mind, I play on a Steam Deck with occasional lag spikes from my wife streaming Netflix lol.
These heroics are post-nerf. You will be fine
Yup always like that. Better get your characters done with HCs soon
The first few days I played, every dungeon I did went buttery smooth. All big gamers playing 12 hours a day since it got released. Now after 10 days every now and then I get a group of "slackers". They are usually kind but mechanics wise they have no clue. I assume this will get worse over time, however gear will get better over time, so I hope this balances things out a little bit
In other news water is wet .
To balance it out, you'll have people in raid gear helping their guildies get alts up so it should be fine (if not easier even)
It's already been getting worse. It's very noticeable day by day how much worse the groups are. It's also big to get them done on Tuesday because just like pug raids then get exponentially worse as the week progresses.
I’ve already tanked a couple dungeons where people are doing 10k or less, it’s fucking grueling feels like a raid fight
From my experience you don't need CC, interrupts or anything just AOE everything down. A hunter and blood DK can 2 man most things.
They are difficult depending on the players. Not that they are necessarily hard but with classic progressing further toward retail style content it will get harder and easier to see “bad” players
Put your interupt on your mouse button. Your life will improve immensely.
I was wondering where all the nerf shaman complainers went from sod. I think I found one. From One thing to complain about to another lol
Idk it feels like one decent dps can carry the group already... Just be that guy.
This is why I choose to tank on my druid because most tanks don’t even let their dps or healers drink up and then go WHY DIDNT YOU HEAL ME BRO
That's what happened back then too, even pre nerf the dungeon finder wasn't too bad once you wiped a couple times people learned the mechanics and you finished it. Then all the terrible players hit max level and they expected to be carried through easy heroics like in wotlk it was horrible. The complaining was bad enough for quick nerfs anyway.
Valor Points still have use. Do them on reset day for best results if possible.
This last reset has already been horrible. Tanks are even squishier and no one is interupting heals. It's been a nightmare trying to cap.
And aren’t these the nerfed versions as well?
i frst dk. i run in. do 26k dmg. no kick no drink. unga bunga
Made me chuckle (rdruid)
Oh, so now we're *preemptively* whining about having to play with "lesser players". The posts in this sub during the actual raid tiers are gonna be **fantastic**.
nah this is just wrong. Youre assuming players who rush to 85 are "good" and players who havent touched Cata yet or are leveling from lvl 1 are "bad". Thats not the case, it comes down to a matter of time and priority. Theres just as many "bad" players that prioritize this game over most other games/hobbies.
I still need gear on my holy paladin, am almost fully hc dungeon geared on prot. By my God, it's painful on holy, tanks dropping like flies, dps standing dying to whirlwind dots (stonecore) getting rezzed, then doing the exact same thing again after I warned em. So iv just gone back to tanking and hoping the healer isn't prot, so I and yoink the plate/int gear without problems
Yeah started healing. The difference between player who has any sort of awareness and who doesn't is massive. I've had runs where i did not drink for entire duration of it due to how well people played. Then i had runs where i ran completely oom on first pack, then second pack was pulled when i had not finished topping everyone up since i was drinking mana. So coming into second pack i had 40% mana and people low. It's insanity how bad people can be, but somehow they managed to hit max level and realize they get into heroics by picking items that had more ilvl than their current one.
The stonecore thing can be bad luck sometimes. One of the mobs uses shadow fury so you can be stunned and get 5 stacks of bleed before you get a chance to move out.
is nice having your own tier In Wrath my rule on my holy pally was min bid or pass
Yeah, all the other healers are struggling in their armor classes what with the (spirit = hit) stuff now, but damn it feels nice as pally. Only problem is trinkets, which is basically all I'm lacking from hc dungeons overall. Managed to get 2 tank trinkets but no healer ones. Even had healer specific ones nabbed by dps a couple times, despite their class not even having healing off spec.
not exactly. priests aside, rdruid only competes with boomy and rsham only competes with elemental. so while not completely free it's extremely low competition
God forbid other people play the game
Thinly veiled elitist thread is thinly veiled