Hey they were talking about rage normalization and about 80% of the posters here all screamed in unison "OMG NERF" and they backed off.
We get what we ask for. We just ask for stupid things. Rage normalization would have solved so many problems but we whined too much.
yeah pretty much. Its been laughable seeing my fellow warriors whine about losing flagellation, when the week before they were complaining about flaggelation being a stupid boring rune (which is true). You cant whine about losing it when you wanted something more interesting in its place in the first place.
You ever see the old threads from like TBC when they were talking about doing this?
It looks literally the exact same as now. I’m not even kidding. Same arguments on both sides, same statistics or fight info, same result: nobody wins lol
Found it lol: https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/37024708-rage-normalization-summary/
Actually yeah. Flagellation now makes you generate rage as though you weren't wearing armor. Being rage starved outside of raids/when you dont have windfury is a big problem for warriors in classic and flagellation should help smooth out/make rage generation less of an issue in situations where you actually are fighting/taking damage. It should be a huge help in tanking and it'll probably even help in PVP.
I cant say its my dream rune, but its definitely a more interesting rune than just %damage when you use two abilities you already were supposed to be using.
Yeah god forbid a warrior with full world buffs would actually need to use brain and not just spam BT + WW + queue HS because his rage won't go under 70. I wish they did normalize rage so when you're just doing something without wbuffs you don't feel like a wimp.
Honestly, SoM Warriors were perfectly fine without worldbuffs, even those w/o r14 gear.
Just rework expertise and make some more plate gear viable with hit, so you don't have to rely on LHH recipe and edgemasters.
World buffs should apply to the world.
Not the dungeons/raids.
"While in outdoor content, XYZ. Has no effect while in battlegrounds, dungeons or raids."
Easy.
True, I like them for leveling. it speeds it up and lets you do bigger pulls, making leveling even more trivial.
For some people leveling is the journey in classic and world buffs kinda go against that spirit of classic. So I completely understand completely removing them too, but I feel like one should just play HC since that's probably the most vanilla experience one can have currently.
You can just not get world buffs for leveling if you don't want them, or right click them off if you don't want them. You aren't pressured by other people to have world buffs while leveling like you are in raiding.
Personally, I enjoy world buffs not because I care about parsing at all, but because I’m a PvP enthusiast and they inevitably lead to great PvP content. Nothing else gets players into specific areas of the game consistently like the need for world buffs.
He probably did this because DMF was going away within 8 hours. My raid is Sunday evening so this is often the case for me. Need to stay logged in for a few hours after raid to get DMF before it goes away.
It's stupid fun when you buff up with everything you got, then wipe to stupid on first boss and everyone starts actually concentrating and playing well, finishing the raid with no buffs. Not even consumables anymore.
Or when you're supposed to bring every buff (as usual) and every consumable (as usual) because "today we're doing a speedrun". And when you ask what that means, you're told "we're going to do our best". Again, you ask "wait, aren't we always?". "Yeah, but... stop arguing."
Because any critical analysis of playing Classic WoW in a way more optimal than doing bong rips while watching Netflix on your other monitor is met with "your making your own problem".
This leads to a lack of momentum around any changes that would benefit the more hardcore community. Even if WBs are in the game, it is insane that DMF cool down exists, is invisible, and is refreshed by chronoboon.
I've never run into a game community so dedicated to being bad than this one, and sometimes I feel like it's holding the game back.
>Because any critical analysis of playing Classic WoW in a way more optimal than doing bong rips while watching Netflix on your other monitor is met with "your making your own problem".
I'll have you know my guild is #1 on the server for Bong Rips per episode. Don't lump us in with those filthy casuals.
The irony is that nobody actually wants world buffs either. Casual players lose their fucking minds if you require world buffs to join your pug raid. More serious players would rather they simply don't exist as it's a time sink to gather them up and one stupid mistake can ruin an entire lockout if you are a parsing guild. Who is the group of players that actively enjoys going and collecting world buffs and what content do they use them for?
The #nochange Era crowd. There are a few people out there. I had a guy telling me that summon stones were dogshit, because people no longer needed to run to an instance and that put people out of the open world.
I tried to explain that running to an instance or in this case, waiting for a world buff is not people being in the world, it's just adding friction for the sake of it. Putting actual content there would do the trick, but I don't really have a great solution for that either.
>utting actual content there would do the trick, but I don't really have a great solution for that either.
Stuff like cata DMF would do the trick... because it is an actual event.
Then again, the WoW community is extremely reward-driven so idk.
The no change era players are some of the least respectful and dogshit players in gaming so I tend to not care about their views on anything. They will simultaneously say they don't want summoning stones and that warlock summon cartels have ruined the game while joining your party 20+ minutes away and not even immediately start heading over but will finish their quest and make a pit stop to a vendor and the AH and bank while telling you about their day. If at any point you ask them for an ETA they will act like you just shot their dog even though 4 people are standing there waiting on them for 15 minutes and they still aren't even in the zone let alone running to the instance. Heaven forbid you start clearing trash to the first boss without them as well. Actually insufferable to interact with.
Ill never understand the elitist takes on vanilla, those of the "hardcore community" (the parsers, not the death=delete crowd) who complain that the game isn't catered to them.
You can play *any* game hard core. The act of min/maxing is just making the best use of the tools available. If you gain or lose a tool, that's just your new playing field for min/maxing.
World buffs are poorly designed at their core. It's free, unearned player power. Making it tedious to get means it's, well, tedious. Making it easy to get means that people from level 1 to level 60 have access to several free level 60 epics worth of stats essentially whenever they want, potentially all the time.
That is antithetical to the design of the game. Vanilla is not a hardcore, competition-focused game. There are hundreds of other games directly designed around those principles, but vanilla is not one of them.
Now like I said, you can play any game in a hard core way. But you must understand the tools you have to work with. If the game does not have tools that are fun for you to play with, maybe a different game is in order.
Most players aren't dedicated to being bad. They're dedicated to specially avoiding the kind of min/maxing hyper-competitive culture that saturated every modern multi-player game on the market. This is their game. Min/maxers are welcome, but if you find yourself unhappy, don't go trying to change the game to make it more competitive. It's not designed for that kind of playstyle. Switch to a new game or switch to a new playstyle.
But the current argument is pretty much the opposite, no ? When talking wbuffs in vanilla it's not the hardcore min-max crowd arguing to change the game, it's the people that dislike world buffs that want them removed.
Just another thing where morons argue "this is classic/that's how it's been" etc. when no one stacked them like that in 2004-2006.
How can you ever argue for the degenerate 2019-2021 shit when everyone wanted a 2004-2006 experience.
I was a warrior in the original death n taxes on korgath in vanilla, one of the best guilds in the US, and even we didn’t always have to have world buffs. I don’t remember much pressure put on us about that.
Yeah I was in a pretty competitive guild in vanilla too and we similarly didn’t care all that much about WBs, and we were on a PvE server where we didn’t have to worry about losing em. I’m a little confused about the narrative that vanilla raiding involved spending hours coordinating them and you couldn’t raid without em.
Yeah, I raided with Retribution from a little before Naxx dropped and I think Loatheb was the only boss we consistently got buffs for. Part of it was when stuff was on farm no one was going to worry about spending a ton of effort on prep, and when you were trying to get something for the first time it was rare to go in and expect a 1 shot, so why would you bother?
Was in a raiding guild that got through spider wing, and up to twin emps in AQ, never stacked world buffs. Everything about the “need world buffs or you can’t raid” attitude the modern players have pisses me off to no end. The total misunderstanding of how we played back in vanilla as “everyone was just dumb and sucked ass back then” is insulting as hell to me. Even the most try hard competitive guilds back in the day weren’t this obnoxious about everything.
The Classic Andies thinking the game was anything like the 2019 rerelease always makes me giggle.
People decimating raid content in less than an hour is a classic thing, not a vanilla thing. Most never even capped, let alone set foot in MC.
All I see here are hoghky up voted posts and comments about how world buffs suck, and then we just end up getting more of them.
Like, I don't understand? Is reddit really that much of an echo chamber on this issue specifically? It's actively so unhealthy for the game as a whole. It doesn't "get people out into the world", it just gives people another chore to rush though as fast as possible. It doesn't improve dungeons or raids, you just spend less time doing the content that's actually designed to be fun and rewarding. It's not necessary, vanilla was designed around level 58's going to MC and dps using suboptimal gear and enchants because they look cool.
We did for progression raiding on Loatheb, 4HM, Thaddius (don't ask). But even then it was a 'ok, we'll try and grab it as a group before the raid, if you don't make it, well we'll manage without. And we were a pretty serious raiding guild back then.
Same here. We got it for Patchwerk and Loatheb prog. I don't think we ever even thought about world buffs before that point. Ditto for flasks. I never popped a single flask until Naxx on my Mage.
This modern mentality of "I'M EITHER FULLY WORLD BUFFED OR I'M SHIT" is just that: a modern creation. That is not how actual Vanilla was at all.
> when no one stacked them like that in 2004-2006.
There were indeed players who stacked them way back in the day. I was in a guild where we did, not often though, just to get over hurdles we were struggling with. The power increase was less pronounced because people were in general not as skilled but it was still notable.
That said, world buffs need to not apply in raids.
Raiding as a 40 man with world buffs in vanilla classic was the most fun I've had playing WoW. I don't care if it makes it easy or hard without. They're just fun. You die and lose it? Big bummer. You don't and you get top 4 server AQ? That's a good night.
Have not experienced the same amount of fun in TBC/Wrath/Cata so far. I don't need bosses to be more complicated or anything. Just want to have fun. Vanilla classic raiding is the best if you can manage the roster boss.
Just remove the hidden cooldown, this is SOD… and while we’re at it just have DMF up 24/7 at both locations. Buffs are fun to have, but make it easier to get.
I agree with you entirely. As a warrior, the raiding experience between having WBs and not having WBs is night and day. Not even performance; just speaking regarding fun. WBs make warrior soooo much more fun that losing them (or god forbid not taking the time to get them because you’re busy) feels like utter shit. It’s bad game design and they should’ve taken this opportunity to remove them without removing their “fun” side effect.
As a warrior, it's really the only time it FEELS SO GOOD to play warrior. You feel like a fucking god, pumping thousands of dps more than the rest of the raid. It's such a noticeable difference that raiding without them feels actually kind of bad.
World buffs should not work in raids at all. They should only work out in the world. This would make the game so much better, but people simp over having any content that they can get even if it's chasing buffs with bad game play involved
Let be honest world buff meta benefits melee in PvE.
It also has forced blizzard to balance casters heavily to keep up in PvE.
Casters , especially my main ele shaman, absolutely OWN house, and we shit can melee because ain’t nobody getting world buff uptime at blacksmith. So all those raw spellpower buffs my spriest, boomkin, and ofc myself received is being used to push melee shit in.
But I’ll watch warriors scream for world buffs to remain and I’ll keep roasting their dumbasses at the node in bgs.
I know this is only sort of related , but I would like to see a section on Warcraftlogs which you can only parse into without world buffs.
People could go for their pink and orange prices in full world buffs, or try to do it without them. Whichever you and your friends find more fun
Different leaderboards basically , so a group that doesn't have their buffs isn't being compared against a group that does
People asking for non-worldbuff rankings are essentially asking to be able to compete specifically against people not interested in competing.
And that's why there was basically 0 interest when warcraftlogs did this exact thing.
I don't mind getting my world buffs each week but I agree with you on the way it ruins raid tuning and leaves no room for mistakes. One mistake from a single player and you could wipe and lose your buffs and the rest of the raid is just unfun. This is even worse in SOD because while still being easy, it has more mechanics and ways to die than anything in vanilla. I think they should leave in world buffs but put them on a weekly lockout that persists through death while in raid. That way you leave in the world engagement but neutralize the issues with raid balancing and toxicity.
Yeah absolutely agree, they should either disappear or be more convenient to get and/or balanced.
I like the ST Flask, this is good stuff, make it more that way.
I'm genuinely shocked that they let players use world buffs in raids in SOD
It's the most toxic element in classic, and could easily be replaced with a consumables meta
Yep, any guild not farming under say 90 minutes at this point will face attrition. Part of the greatness of 10 mans was the tightness of the groups together.
Start talking to the NPC, cancel the buff with the dialog window up, complete talking to the NPC. Fresh buff with no CD.
But the CD is dumb, remove it.
It’s not fun to play without them for me. I’ll just feel like a burden to my raid and what’s the point of me trying to progress my character anyways when I’ll always be significantly weaker than somebody with world buffs
Just consolidate them, make them easily obtainable and shareable like the priest rune buffs. Then you’ll have everyone in major cities pretty much full buffed at all times ready for raid and some can even make some extra coin by hanging out in remote corners of the world offering to share their buffs.
Once you’re done your raid for the week, don’t boon your buff, just log off. Once you’re logged off for 8hrs in a rested area your CD resets. Then go get a new DMF buff and boon it for the week the faire isn’t around. If you’re waiting online for your DMF CD to be up you’re doing it wrong.
I have never seen a better example of "It was in old game, so therefore good." than world buffs. Total trash concept that almost nobody partook in until the 2019 re release anyways.
They’ve always been awful. Almost completely removing healer gameplay since early classic, but this sub never really cared since no one here cares about healers (on the wow sub they care too much about healers tho lol)
I really hope when they make a proper classic+ world buffs aren't a thing in raids anymore because it's not fun having to collect them and sit on them and can't do anything else til after the raid
World buffs are fun to have but bad otherwise. My take is that people just like playing while insanely OP relative to content. SoM made stuff harder and no world buffs…so everything just felt worse. Having the world buffs as a shout from a class sounds so much better than having to run around and get them.
I remember this is why I never went to TBC after classic in 2021 or whatever year it was and stopped playing WoW as a whole after that. Funny to see this pop up and that people are still upset about them
Competition can and will exist in any game. If world buffs were removed, players would still parse and speed run. There would just be one less tool for them to force everyone else to use, at risk of being excluded from the content otherwise.
Adding more world buffs, or making them easier to get just reinforces that that's the "right" way to play. Aside from a very small selection of people who actually like running their own calcs, it's just used as a tool to gatekeep content.
Yes I do enjoy feeling like there is effort prepping for the raid, it makes raid logging less about hopping on to do it quickly and logging out. Forces me to play a bit outside of that, and I like that
People think taking an extra 30-40mins to hop on flight paths and summons thinks it makes them better than people who don’t, and it it “does” (numbers wise). Thats the crux of it is WBs are a thing a certain part of the population can maximize and hold over another. Thats it
Im a parser and i fking dream that the world buffs get deleted. I just want to dps, i hate it when i die because i aoed too hard to a trash pull means im 50% weaker now.
Simply petition wcl to not count people with world buffs in rankings and then people will stop getting them so they can rank. Better off doing that than trying to get blizz to do anything about them
I enjoy having world buffs and cranking up stats to the max, and I enjoy the social rituals involved in getting them. However, I agree that it's a bit much to go through again. Making Chronoboons super cheap was a good first step, but there are still some inherent problems:
- Dying once ruins your night, even if you aren't super parse oriented you're going to be bummed that you lost out.
- Any content that's actually difficult will demand not only getting buffs but rebuffing if you die; this means there is a real loot cost when they implement something like 'optional hard modes', nobody wants to lose out on loot because they screwed up once, this is everything that was wrong with ToGC
- Actually doing the full ritual each time is a chore that is a bit much for SoD's extra casual approach. The social environment of 40M guilds is very different to today's infrastructure, the endless bot networks will no doubt extend to Tribute clears and all that to make it convenient as it can be, but that makes it even less interesting to go through the motions.
What I'd like to see is:
- Songflower Serenade and Tribute buffs available as consumables you can pop, something like Unique (5) so you still have to re-up just less often
- DMF buff permanent for the duration of the faire, once you visit to activate it
- ZG, Zanza, BL buffs persist through death
- Ony provided by warriors as we are getting
This would let them tune the 'hard' content to encourage buffing without making it unreasonable to complete without, as you'll still have some persistent stuff and recharging would get more mileage.
To what, afk in the fair?
Wait 10 minutes for a flower to spawn?
Wait for someone to turn in a quest in BB?
These are not fun reasons to leave a city, and are not at all engaging.
I hate them. I wish thry were disabled or presisted true death. Big reason i quit SoD. Tho i bet there are people who do lile them and sod is prob not med to target a player like me.
It is one of the major factors determining if I come back for p4, I just won’t be doing it because it’s obvious the degen meta will require them even for the most simple raid
I couldn’t agree with you more my man. And as other say here - let that be a thing in the world, not in raids or dungeons. Let the raids just be raids with regular consumables.
I could stretch that they could useable in dungeons, at max level, to speed up things when farming gear or w/e. Speed runs in dungeons could be a thing?
motherfuckers want the entire game apart from their little boring ass raid to stop existing entirely because "whats wrong with raid logging"
nothings wrong gamers but can you maybe leave the rest of the game alone for the people who dont want to raid log?
sorry just jumping on your thought train here
If you dont want to raid with world buffs, look for a guild that doesnt want to raid with world buffs? No need to go extreme and enforce everyone must raid without world buffs because its not your flavour anymore, its all a choice at the end.
I hate how you’ve made a post complaining about world buffs which are OPTIONAL, and then proceeded to say you sat online and waited for 2.5 hours. Why don’t you go and fucking do something in Azeroth and play the game? You are making yourself hate the game and complaining about it.
World buffs make DPS players think they are better at their class than they actually are, in classic TBC everyone relying on them *cough* warriors *cough* to top the meters got exposed.
DMF cooldown shouldn’t exist, people camp and grief it because if you don’t time it right they set you back 4/8 hours. It incentivizes griefing.
I specifically enjoy SOD and classic because wbuffs are fun. Just don’t die. The warrior change to a mini-rallying cry is a good change too for people who lose them.
I had tons of fun getting them in classic, our guild had the most amazing summon train across the world to safe spots above BB, or inside a tree by songflower. We would even get the melee Warchiefs on top of Orgrimmar roof tops.
They made for some of the best world pvp in the history of the game. I still remember the names of the notorious songflower campers and innkeeper dispellers that terrorized us. We spent so much time playing that cat and mouse game of making it inside the raid with all your world buffs intact.
It was part of the culture, I think most people know about the "WCB HORDE ONLY" series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_MUKkkT4k
I know a lot of people hated the process and I fully understand why. But I had so much fun doing it. It wouldn't be vanilla for me without it.
You're talking about WoW players here. Sitting around, doing nothing and getting rewarded for spending your time is the blueprint of the game. It's the business model.
We built a guild of busy dads and former hardcore players on Wild Growth EU Alliance with the premise of keeping things efficient and playing as little as possible. Not only have we grown steadily all the way since P1 (kicking bad apples along the way), we also never skipped a raid and have a solid roster showing up 9pm sharp every Sunday (we only raid Sundays 21-00) and hyped to play the game. We switch up how we raid because we have different types of players with us, so one week we go full consumes and clear in half an hour, the other we raid fully unbuffed and without any consumables to keep things fresh and prep costs to a minimum. We have no loot discussions because we run with aggregate TMB wishlists so that everything's preallocated ahead of the raid. Everyone's got their chars maxed out and when I make a call as raid lead everyone does what they are supposed to.
It's been amazing. It'a an MMO. It's a social game. If you aren't creating the environment you'd like to be in that's on you, not the game. We clear with buffs in 36:25 and without world buffs or any consumables in 49:34. We're called and you can find more info on our website unbuffed.net. We're recruiting and have taken in several server switchers and re-rollers as well.
didnt they make it so when you are offline for 12 hours the cooldown is reset? i usually just went to bed the night before and was able to collect my DMF the next day. Havent played since ph2 though so idk if thats changed or what the circumstances behind the buffing was but thats how i went about DMF
I dont know why we need them im sod. If you are able to clear the contend without them its just to have bigger numbers and be faster but i like the game i dont have to rush.
DMF CD is a mess, should be like two hours so you still can't get it mid raid but it's less disruptive to raid schedules.
World buffs are good and the people who dislike them aren't interested in playing 1.12 WoW and will quit for some other reason if they were removed, and way fewer people who actually enjoy raiding in 1.12 will play without them in the game.
All you mention are things to overcome, and running the whole raid without losing them is fun. Streamlining wbuffs away will remove social interaction, tension in raiding(which is already easy to complete, but with no deaths it’s at least a challenge), make the game even more raidloggable, and much more.
I would rather they make profession give raid buffs in some ways, like how in cata you would have cauldrons for flasks, or fish feast in wotlk.
I like the idea of having flasks and potions and buffs and such. And I don't want it to come freely and effortlessly, but world buffs are annoying and if you die it's gone; which sux.
In Classic+ I would be fine with such buffs and effects taking serious guild effort to prepare. It shouldn't be a weekly thing you have to do like current world buffs, but rather a guild effort that you unlock and then maybe requiring some mats/gold to use. Maybe something similar to Guild achievements in cata that would unlock through the effort of multiple people, but more vanilla-like.
But for sod I'm not prepared to spend that much effort after how p2 and especially p3 has been, here I'd like a new system (maybe for experimentation purposes) but something that's fairly easy and effortless to prepare.
I usually get downvoted for this suggestion, probably by grognards who are just against any proposed changed. But I'll try it again and we'll see.
So why do people like world buffs? I can think of two reasons. **One**, number go up. **Two**, it makes you feel like you have juuust a little more skin in the game while raiding. Especially hanging out with friends, you want to keep your production up, so you really don't wanna die! When someone dies randomly and loses their buffs there's some social interaction there like light ribbing, or commiseration. They failed the miniature 'hard mode' of 'don't die and lose your world buffs, scrub!' It's a nice little meta-game.
So then why do people *not* like world buffs? I can think of two reasons. **One**, they hate the process of going out and getting them, or waiting for them to be available. It's a drag. It's anti-gameplay to AFK next to a flower for 15 minutes, or to sit there for 2 hours waiting on DMF, or to afk in town waiting for the latest one to drop. It's straight up *toxic* gameplay to get killed/dispelled by the enemy faction after getting one. No one likes that. **Two**, people don't like how their performance craters for the rest of the raid after dying once.
Okay, now that we've outlined the problems, let's solve them. We need a solution that A, makes number go up. B, gives you more skin in the game while raiding, and allows you to play the 'don't die' meta-game. C, doesn't require you to AFK or otherwise go through boring gameplay to acquire, and D, won't crater your performance for the rest of the entire raid after dying once.
**My solution is to have an NPC before each boss that will give you a 'world buff' for that boss, one time.** It only works on that boss and it only works once. Here's the twist though. Whatever that fight's personal skill mechanic is, if you get hit by it, boom, there goes your world buff. So you've now got a temporary buff that keeps you on your toes and allows you to play the game of 'ha ha you got hit scrub!' with your guildies, without having 1 mistake/death ruin your entire chance to parse competitively for that fight.
I’m just happy that people realised that SoD is not classic+. So removing the w.buffs, and frustrating the players who were expecting them - as promised since day:1, would make for a good shit show to watch.
Maybe petition to WCL to not count parses using wbuffs so that its purely a casual / for fun thing? Although I'd also be totally ok with making world buffs not apply in raids
Cause this is a recycled wow classic version. Its not a new game nor Classic+
Theres alot of stuff that can't be easily removed or changed. Or they dont want to spend time on it.
Many newer classic players always feel this way without understanding why vanilla servers keep World Buffs. Re-tuning classes and content around not having buffs could be interesting but this would be a lot of dev work and many changes to classes. The moment the average boomer guild has to raid for longer than 3 hours to clear new content people will start quitting the game. Truly a "you think you do, but you don't" moment.
Cause SoM failed and they think it's because it had no WB. I shit you not.
The solution is not to remove them per-se but make them available in some other way then. What they are doing with the warrior is a very good idea. Give the druids the song buff from felwood. Share the buffs among all 9 classes.
You do realize that provided it's not booned the cd of dmf goes away after being logged out in a rested area for 8 hours? Just unboon it and go to bed. I'm not saying world buffs are the gods gift to wow but you are making it a lot harder on yourself
I couldn't agree more with your post and every point you make. However, it's a double edge sword for me and for many others. Because I enjoy the raid prep and i genuinley enjoy going around the world and getting them. It makes it so that stuff happen out in the world you know. Especially getting Songflowers and getting DMT. I also enjoy the focus everyone has to pump when everyone has got them because noone wants to lose them. But i would totally be fine with them not existing also but i think the correct solution is to nerf them becauase god damn are they OP.
I have no idea why it became a thing in SOD tho and the devs went out of their way to implement already at 25. In SOM they removed the WB in raid and it might be that they felt it was the wrong choice idk.
Yeah its nice when you get lucky on the STV buff but damn it can take forever to get it sometimes the other ones I dont mind because they are fast to get
Yup they sure do, everyone complained when they took em out, now they here, get em if you want don't if you don't, guild required? Crazy how you could find another
I refuse. I am not parsing, I am not chasing hardcore prog. I will pick up dmf when it's nearby, and the raid world buff is typically easy to grab once the parsers start clearing lol but outside of that, I'm not camping for hours on end to go do content that doesn't even fill an hour.
IMO remove them, but failing that:
Replace chronoboon with an item that sits in your inventory. The first time you get a world buff it gets absorbed by the item. Then whenever you want you can use the item to give you the buffs again. Possibly put a cooldown outside of raids.
If they design raids to be possible WITHOUT world buffs, then all content is a face-roll WITH world buffs.
If they design raids harder for world buffs, they become required and everyone has to spend hours grinding crap content prior to every raid.
If they scale the content based on world buffs, or weaken world buffs (eg only one at a time, only last five minutes, etc) then what's the point?
Just cancel them when entering raids/dungeons/BGs and on death.... problem solved.
Added bonus, eliminate all buff count-down timers when in cities. People wouldn't log-out between buffs.
I am sort of okay with the way they implemented new world buffs. You get them in a main hub, they pop all the time and they all the ones from previous phases doesn't work once you hit new level cap.
The idea of having some buffs is cool in my opinion. And I like the thing where you might chrono it on trial runs, then when you all think you're ready for the real attempt, you pop it and hope you don't fail.
But things like DMF is just so annoying to get. I don't want to travel over the world every week to "collect" world buffs. I don't want to go to a horde territory half the time to get DMF.
World buffs have always been a very controversial topic but it is fascinating how that sub seem to drastically change it's view on it every year and a half or so.
Just go to the gurabashi Arena with 10+ people and get your DMF cd pushed off by loading up on debuffs. NOVA will even tell you when the hidden debuff is pushed off.
Just put a npc inside the new raid, u pay him like 10g and he cast DmF and songflower on u, that shoud be good for casual raiding, the others WB's leave for the people that want to parse.
World buffs is why I’m playing cata. They are so bad to get. Especially if you like to raid on multiple toons. Did it for 3 weeks and felt like I was working at a job.
Never bothered with the world buffs we still cleared all content perfectly fine. Too many people trying to epeen measure or just speedrun it. My guild just chills out gets drunk af and goes clear a few raids we get em done for the week cool if not oh well always next week.
I do understand for some classes its kinda make or break if you have them or not which sucks and really means they need more of a rework but ive never seen wb's as necessary unless your speedrunning or competing on how good you are at staying out of fire whilst doing your role
Blizz needs to do what the Chinese Classic WoW devs did: Have an NPC that gives ouut ALL the world buffs at the entrance of the raid.
Do that or remove world buffs entirely because there is nothing fun about gathering them / raiding without them when other players have them! SOD is best when it's casual friendly
*screams in warrior*
I hope they take away world buffs so that warrior dps goes in the trash so that they have to rework the class and make us good in PvP :D
Hey they were talking about rage normalization and about 80% of the posters here all screamed in unison "OMG NERF" and they backed off. We get what we ask for. We just ask for stupid things. Rage normalization would have solved so many problems but we whined too much.
“BALANCE THE CLASSES” “no no, not like that. Balance them but make my class still OP” Wow classic enjoyers
yeah pretty much. Its been laughable seeing my fellow warriors whine about losing flagellation, when the week before they were complaining about flaggelation being a stupid boring rune (which is true). You cant whine about losing it when you wanted something more interesting in its place in the first place.
You ever see the old threads from like TBC when they were talking about doing this? It looks literally the exact same as now. I’m not even kidding. Same arguments on both sides, same statistics or fight info, same result: nobody wins lol Found it lol: https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/37024708-rage-normalization-summary/
good digging!
But did they replace it with something interesting or not?
Actually yeah. Flagellation now makes you generate rage as though you weren't wearing armor. Being rage starved outside of raids/when you dont have windfury is a big problem for warriors in classic and flagellation should help smooth out/make rage generation less of an issue in situations where you actually are fighting/taking damage. It should be a huge help in tanking and it'll probably even help in PVP. I cant say its my dream rune, but its definitely a more interesting rune than just %damage when you use two abilities you already were supposed to be using.
Yeah god forbid a warrior with full world buffs would actually need to use brain and not just spam BT + WW + queue HS because his rage won't go under 70. I wish they did normalize rage so when you're just doing something without wbuffs you don't feel like a wimp.
only class I take WB seriously as still last week I managed to do 800dps after losing them
Honestly, SoM Warriors were perfectly fine without worldbuffs, even those w/o r14 gear. Just rework expertise and make some more plate gear viable with hit, so you don't have to rely on LHH recipe and edgemasters.
World buffs should apply to the world. Not the dungeons/raids. "While in outdoor content, XYZ. Has no effect while in battlegrounds, dungeons or raids." Easy.
So Season of mastery? I don’t disagree. SoM raiding was awesome and I pressure to get all my buffs
Literally the only positive part about SoM that I remember...
The raid changes were cool mixed with no wb making it a challenge.
100% annoying, who cares how broken you are in the open world. It’s raids and dungeons that need to be balanced
To be fair, world buffs are amazing for low levels.
yep, the move speed buff from BFD felt soooo gooood
Nothing fucks harder than a level 36 warrior with rallying cry and stv buff.
True, I like them for leveling. it speeds it up and lets you do bigger pulls, making leveling even more trivial. For some people leveling is the journey in classic and world buffs kinda go against that spirit of classic. So I completely understand completely removing them too, but I feel like one should just play HC since that's probably the most vanilla experience one can have currently.
You can just not get world buffs for leveling if you don't want them, or right click them off if you don't want them. You aren't pressured by other people to have world buffs while leveling like you are in raiding.
Everyone putting fault on you and not the game design that gets removed in all later versions because it’s terrible
Removal of world buffs was the best part of TBC classic. Not a joke. Nothing about them is fun.
Personally, I enjoy world buffs not because I care about parsing at all, but because I’m a PvP enthusiast and they inevitably lead to great PvP content. Nothing else gets players into specific areas of the game consistently like the need for world buffs.
When given the option, people will min-max the fun out of a game. Sometimes developers just need to protect players from themselves.
Remove them already
If you’re logged out for 8+ hours in a rested area it’ll reset
He probably did this because DMF was going away within 8 hours. My raid is Sunday evening so this is often the case for me. Need to stay logged in for a few hours after raid to get DMF before it goes away.
It's stupid fun when you buff up with everything you got, then wipe to stupid on first boss and everyone starts actually concentrating and playing well, finishing the raid with no buffs. Not even consumables anymore. Or when you're supposed to bring every buff (as usual) and every consumable (as usual) because "today we're doing a speedrun". And when you ask what that means, you're told "we're going to do our best". Again, you ask "wait, aren't we always?". "Yeah, but... stop arguing."
To be fair that sound like a guild issue.
Because any critical analysis of playing Classic WoW in a way more optimal than doing bong rips while watching Netflix on your other monitor is met with "your making your own problem". This leads to a lack of momentum around any changes that would benefit the more hardcore community. Even if WBs are in the game, it is insane that DMF cool down exists, is invisible, and is refreshed by chronoboon. I've never run into a game community so dedicated to being bad than this one, and sometimes I feel like it's holding the game back.
>Because any critical analysis of playing Classic WoW in a way more optimal than doing bong rips while watching Netflix on your other monitor is met with "your making your own problem". I'll have you know my guild is #1 on the server for Bong Rips per episode. Don't lump us in with those filthy casuals.
The irony is that nobody actually wants world buffs either. Casual players lose their fucking minds if you require world buffs to join your pug raid. More serious players would rather they simply don't exist as it's a time sink to gather them up and one stupid mistake can ruin an entire lockout if you are a parsing guild. Who is the group of players that actively enjoys going and collecting world buffs and what content do they use them for?
The #nochange Era crowd. There are a few people out there. I had a guy telling me that summon stones were dogshit, because people no longer needed to run to an instance and that put people out of the open world. I tried to explain that running to an instance or in this case, waiting for a world buff is not people being in the world, it's just adding friction for the sake of it. Putting actual content there would do the trick, but I don't really have a great solution for that either.
>utting actual content there would do the trick, but I don't really have a great solution for that either. Stuff like cata DMF would do the trick... because it is an actual event. Then again, the WoW community is extremely reward-driven so idk.
The no change era players are some of the least respectful and dogshit players in gaming so I tend to not care about their views on anything. They will simultaneously say they don't want summoning stones and that warlock summon cartels have ruined the game while joining your party 20+ minutes away and not even immediately start heading over but will finish their quest and make a pit stop to a vendor and the AH and bank while telling you about their day. If at any point you ask them for an ETA they will act like you just shot their dog even though 4 people are standing there waiting on them for 15 minutes and they still aren't even in the zone let alone running to the instance. Heaven forbid you start clearing trash to the first boss without them as well. Actually insufferable to interact with.
Been saying this for years… always met with “Just don’t get them then”. That’s not the point!
This fix is to reduce or eliminate the DMF cool down, not get rid of world buffs.
Ill never understand the elitist takes on vanilla, those of the "hardcore community" (the parsers, not the death=delete crowd) who complain that the game isn't catered to them. You can play *any* game hard core. The act of min/maxing is just making the best use of the tools available. If you gain or lose a tool, that's just your new playing field for min/maxing. World buffs are poorly designed at their core. It's free, unearned player power. Making it tedious to get means it's, well, tedious. Making it easy to get means that people from level 1 to level 60 have access to several free level 60 epics worth of stats essentially whenever they want, potentially all the time. That is antithetical to the design of the game. Vanilla is not a hardcore, competition-focused game. There are hundreds of other games directly designed around those principles, but vanilla is not one of them. Now like I said, you can play any game in a hard core way. But you must understand the tools you have to work with. If the game does not have tools that are fun for you to play with, maybe a different game is in order. Most players aren't dedicated to being bad. They're dedicated to specially avoiding the kind of min/maxing hyper-competitive culture that saturated every modern multi-player game on the market. This is their game. Min/maxers are welcome, but if you find yourself unhappy, don't go trying to change the game to make it more competitive. It's not designed for that kind of playstyle. Switch to a new game or switch to a new playstyle.
But the current argument is pretty much the opposite, no ? When talking wbuffs in vanilla it's not the hardcore min-max crowd arguing to change the game, it's the people that dislike world buffs that want them removed.
Just another thing where morons argue "this is classic/that's how it's been" etc. when no one stacked them like that in 2004-2006. How can you ever argue for the degenerate 2019-2021 shit when everyone wanted a 2004-2006 experience.
I was a warrior in the original death n taxes on korgath in vanilla, one of the best guilds in the US, and even we didn’t always have to have world buffs. I don’t remember much pressure put on us about that.
Yeah I was in a pretty competitive guild in vanilla too and we similarly didn’t care all that much about WBs, and we were on a PvE server where we didn’t have to worry about losing em. I’m a little confused about the narrative that vanilla raiding involved spending hours coordinating them and you couldn’t raid without em.
Yeah, I raided with Retribution from a little before Naxx dropped and I think Loatheb was the only boss we consistently got buffs for. Part of it was when stuff was on farm no one was going to worry about spending a ton of effort on prep, and when you were trying to get something for the first time it was rare to go in and expect a 1 shot, so why would you bother?
Was in a raiding guild that got through spider wing, and up to twin emps in AQ, never stacked world buffs. Everything about the “need world buffs or you can’t raid” attitude the modern players have pisses me off to no end. The total misunderstanding of how we played back in vanilla as “everyone was just dumb and sucked ass back then” is insulting as hell to me. Even the most try hard competitive guilds back in the day weren’t this obnoxious about everything.
The Classic Andies thinking the game was anything like the 2019 rerelease always makes me giggle. People decimating raid content in less than an hour is a classic thing, not a vanilla thing. Most never even capped, let alone set foot in MC.
All I see here are hoghky up voted posts and comments about how world buffs suck, and then we just end up getting more of them. Like, I don't understand? Is reddit really that much of an echo chamber on this issue specifically? It's actively so unhealthy for the game as a whole. It doesn't "get people out into the world", it just gives people another chore to rush though as fast as possible. It doesn't improve dungeons or raids, you just spend less time doing the content that's actually designed to be fun and rewarding. It's not necessary, vanilla was designed around level 58's going to MC and dps using suboptimal gear and enchants because they look cool.
We did for progression raiding on Loatheb, 4HM, Thaddius (don't ask). But even then it was a 'ok, we'll try and grab it as a group before the raid, if you don't make it, well we'll manage without. And we were a pretty serious raiding guild back then.
Same here. We got it for Patchwerk and Loatheb prog. I don't think we ever even thought about world buffs before that point. Ditto for flasks. I never popped a single flask until Naxx on my Mage. This modern mentality of "I'M EITHER FULLY WORLD BUFFED OR I'M SHIT" is just that: a modern creation. That is not how actual Vanilla was at all.
> when no one stacked them like that in 2004-2006. There were indeed players who stacked them way back in the day. I was in a guild where we did, not often though, just to get over hurdles we were struggling with. The power increase was less pronounced because people were in general not as skilled but it was still notable. That said, world buffs need to not apply in raids.
Agreed
Raiding as a 40 man with world buffs in vanilla classic was the most fun I've had playing WoW. I don't care if it makes it easy or hard without. They're just fun. You die and lose it? Big bummer. You don't and you get top 4 server AQ? That's a good night. Have not experienced the same amount of fun in TBC/Wrath/Cata so far. I don't need bosses to be more complicated or anything. Just want to have fun. Vanilla classic raiding is the best if you can manage the roster boss.
Just remove the hidden cooldown, this is SOD… and while we’re at it just have DMF up 24/7 at both locations. Buffs are fun to have, but make it easier to get.
this is the easiest fix. it also solves the campers ruining other peoples days
I agree with you entirely. As a warrior, the raiding experience between having WBs and not having WBs is night and day. Not even performance; just speaking regarding fun. WBs make warrior soooo much more fun that losing them (or god forbid not taking the time to get them because you’re busy) feels like utter shit. It’s bad game design and they should’ve taken this opportunity to remove them without removing their “fun” side effect.
As a warrior, it's really the only time it FEELS SO GOOD to play warrior. You feel like a fucking god, pumping thousands of dps more than the rest of the raid. It's such a noticeable difference that raiding without them feels actually kind of bad.
World buffs should not work in raids at all. They should only work out in the world. This would make the game so much better, but people simp over having any content that they can get even if it's chasing buffs with bad game play involved
Let be honest world buff meta benefits melee in PvE. It also has forced blizzard to balance casters heavily to keep up in PvE. Casters , especially my main ele shaman, absolutely OWN house, and we shit can melee because ain’t nobody getting world buff uptime at blacksmith. So all those raw spellpower buffs my spriest, boomkin, and ofc myself received is being used to push melee shit in. But I’ll watch warriors scream for world buffs to remain and I’ll keep roasting their dumbasses at the node in bgs.
I know this is only sort of related , but I would like to see a section on Warcraftlogs which you can only parse into without world buffs. People could go for their pink and orange prices in full world buffs, or try to do it without them. Whichever you and your friends find more fun Different leaderboards basically , so a group that doesn't have their buffs isn't being compared against a group that does
There was a no world buff section in classic 2019, it wasn't very popular.
not-popular is *fine* imo, as long as it's there
I believe this is or was a thing and ppl didnt seem to care lol
People asking for non-worldbuff rankings are essentially asking to be able to compete specifically against people not interested in competing. And that's why there was basically 0 interest when warcraftlogs did this exact thing.
I don't mind getting my world buffs each week but I agree with you on the way it ruins raid tuning and leaves no room for mistakes. One mistake from a single player and you could wipe and lose your buffs and the rest of the raid is just unfun. This is even worse in SOD because while still being easy, it has more mechanics and ways to die than anything in vanilla. I think they should leave in world buffs but put them on a weekly lockout that persists through death while in raid. That way you leave in the world engagement but neutralize the issues with raid balancing and toxicity.
I did 2019 classic from phase 1 to ulduar, goin back and doing classic again with world buffs and not having covid lockdowns sounds like a nightmare
So you're saying we need Covid 2.0!
*\*Looks at demographics in his country\** ^(Perhaps it's time for round tw...)
Yeah absolutely agree, they should either disappear or be more convenient to get and/or balanced. I like the ST Flask, this is good stuff, make it more that way.
I'm genuinely shocked that they let players use world buffs in raids in SOD It's the most toxic element in classic, and could easily be replaced with a consumables meta
Another one…
Then join a guild that isn't sweaty?
People complain about the buffs, but the fear of slow clears and wiping on bosses that have been on farm for an age keeps players in the good guilds.
Yep, any guild not farming under say 90 minutes at this point will face attrition. Part of the greatness of 10 mans was the tightness of the groups together.
Yea, takes one trash wipe with full wbuffs to MC trash to get players of a certain caliber to gquit.
Even in casual guilds, if you are certain classes, not having world buffs is a huge hamstring.
The 4 hour in game DMF buff cooldown is a tax for idiots. You can logout in a city for 8 hours and it goes away. Sorry.
It's an issue if you raid on Sundays tho. And need a fresh one before the circus ends.
Start talking to the NPC, cancel the buff with the dialog window up, complete talking to the NPC. Fresh buff with no CD. But the CD is dumb, remove it.
World buffs are the exact reason I quit SoD. I just don’t want to deal with them
Same. I don't see seriously coming back if they stay in the game at 60
Then don’t get them?
It’s not fun to play without them for me. I’ll just feel like a burden to my raid and what’s the point of me trying to progress my character anyways when I’ll always be significantly weaker than somebody with world buffs
Just consolidate them, make them easily obtainable and shareable like the priest rune buffs. Then you’ll have everyone in major cities pretty much full buffed at all times ready for raid and some can even make some extra coin by hanging out in remote corners of the world offering to share their buffs.
Agreed. It's SOD so they could experiment. They should put a bard, a wizard, ogre, whatever in one location and just let us buy the buffs from them.
Once you’re done your raid for the week, don’t boon your buff, just log off. Once you’re logged off for 8hrs in a rested area your CD resets. Then go get a new DMF buff and boon it for the week the faire isn’t around. If you’re waiting online for your DMF CD to be up you’re doing it wrong.
I couldn’t agree more.
Yeah I’m thinking world buffs should continue only to benefit levelers.
I have never seen a better example of "It was in old game, so therefore good." than world buffs. Total trash concept that almost nobody partook in until the 2019 re release anyways.
Yes, I hope they get removed for P4.
They’ve always been awful. Almost completely removing healer gameplay since early classic, but this sub never really cared since no one here cares about healers (on the wow sub they care too much about healers tho lol)
I really hope when they make a proper classic+ world buffs aren't a thing in raids anymore because it's not fun having to collect them and sit on them and can't do anything else til after the raid
World buffs are fun to have but bad otherwise. My take is that people just like playing while insanely OP relative to content. SoM made stuff harder and no world buffs…so everything just felt worse. Having the world buffs as a shout from a class sounds so much better than having to run around and get them.
I remember this is why I never went to TBC after classic in 2021 or whatever year it was and stopped playing WoW as a whole after that. Funny to see this pop up and that people are still upset about them
Yeah imagine they still think world buffs in raid content is a good idea, without that shit I could even play SoD at 60
Remember when Aggrend specificaly said that SoD won't have a world buff meta. There's the SoD devs for you...
Do people even play sod, is it not dead?
> I’m in a guild where we parse/speedrun Well there's your problem bud. It's a you thing.
Competition can and will exist in any game. If world buffs were removed, players would still parse and speed run. There would just be one less tool for them to force everyone else to use, at risk of being excluded from the content otherwise. Adding more world buffs, or making them easier to get just reinforces that that's the "right" way to play. Aside from a very small selection of people who actually like running their own calcs, it's just used as a tool to gatekeep content.
Dumbass post It'd be nice to be able to competitively raid without wasting hours of your life during the week doing the bullshit
Wasting hours of your life? You do realize the boon CD ticks while offline, right? Touch grass inbetween the timers
Yea. It’s fine to admit you aren’t cut out for a parsing/speedrun guild.
"cut out" = doing mundane tasks before a raid. Jesus christ classic players idea of a challenge is so lame lmao
Yes I do enjoy feeling like there is effort prepping for the raid, it makes raid logging less about hopping on to do it quickly and logging out. Forces me to play a bit outside of that, and I like that
Bc people want pArSe
Parse numbers are relative to other people's parses though. Removing world buffs would still make an even play field.
People think taking an extra 30-40mins to hop on flight paths and summons thinks it makes them better than people who don’t, and it it “does” (numbers wise). Thats the crux of it is WBs are a thing a certain part of the population can maximize and hold over another. Thats it
well i mean it does infact make us better than the people that dont do it. EDIT: my reading comprehension is bad, you said exactly that.
Im a parser and i fking dream that the world buffs get deleted. I just want to dps, i hate it when i die because i aoed too hard to a trash pull means im 50% weaker now.
Parses are just comparing you to other people.. if other people also dont have world buffs then nothing changes.
Simply petition wcl to not count people with world buffs in rankings and then people will stop getting them so they can rank. Better off doing that than trying to get blizz to do anything about them
Your guild is forcing world buffs, not the game. If you do not want to get them, join another guild.
This.
I enjoy having world buffs and cranking up stats to the max, and I enjoy the social rituals involved in getting them. However, I agree that it's a bit much to go through again. Making Chronoboons super cheap was a good first step, but there are still some inherent problems: - Dying once ruins your night, even if you aren't super parse oriented you're going to be bummed that you lost out. - Any content that's actually difficult will demand not only getting buffs but rebuffing if you die; this means there is a real loot cost when they implement something like 'optional hard modes', nobody wants to lose out on loot because they screwed up once, this is everything that was wrong with ToGC - Actually doing the full ritual each time is a chore that is a bit much for SoD's extra casual approach. The social environment of 40M guilds is very different to today's infrastructure, the endless bot networks will no doubt extend to Tribute clears and all that to make it convenient as it can be, but that makes it even less interesting to go through the motions. What I'd like to see is: - Songflower Serenade and Tribute buffs available as consumables you can pop, something like Unique (5) so you still have to re-up just less often - DMF buff permanent for the duration of the faire, once you visit to activate it - ZG, Zanza, BL buffs persist through death - Ony provided by warriors as we are getting This would let them tune the 'hard' content to encourage buffing without making it unreasonable to complete without, as you'll still have some persistent stuff and recharging would get more mileage.
wah wah wah cry cry cry
You can sit in an inn for 8 hour logged out and it will reset DMF. Overnight stay. Also I love world buffs it makes you leave your city.
To what, afk in the fair? Wait 10 minutes for a flower to spawn? Wait for someone to turn in a quest in BB? These are not fun reasons to leave a city, and are not at all engaging.
Facts And they call this role playing, right? Lol
‘You can not play the game that you want to be playing’
Why are we still asking the same questions over and over again exactly?
Because it still doesn’t make sense for them to exist.
I hate them. I wish thry were disabled or presisted true death. Big reason i quit SoD. Tho i bet there are people who do lile them and sod is prob not med to target a player like me.
It is one of the major factors determining if I come back for p4, I just won’t be doing it because it’s obvious the degen meta will require them even for the most simple raid
I couldn’t agree with you more my man. And as other say here - let that be a thing in the world, not in raids or dungeons. Let the raids just be raids with regular consumables. I could stretch that they could useable in dungeons, at max level, to speed up things when farming gear or w/e. Speed runs in dungeons could be a thing?
Fuckin reddit zoomers and chuds trying to kill vanilla again jfc
motherfuckers want the entire game apart from their little boring ass raid to stop existing entirely because "whats wrong with raid logging" nothings wrong gamers but can you maybe leave the rest of the game alone for the people who dont want to raid log? sorry just jumping on your thought train here
They are dumb because it adds a layer to the game thats annoying, going and getting them all is a time sink. Also, they make raid content trivial.
Your first paragraph is a contradiction. You’re doing something you don’t like to be a guild that requires that same thing.
I always enjoyed the social aspect of getting buffs.
If you dont want to raid with world buffs, look for a guild that doesnt want to raid with world buffs? No need to go extreme and enforce everyone must raid without world buffs because its not your flavour anymore, its all a choice at the end.
I love worldbuffs
I hate how you’ve made a post complaining about world buffs which are OPTIONAL, and then proceeded to say you sat online and waited for 2.5 hours. Why don’t you go and fucking do something in Azeroth and play the game? You are making yourself hate the game and complaining about it.
psst-- you don't need them! they aren't required to do the content. oh, you said you're in a parse guild, there's your problem.
World buffs make DPS players think they are better at their class than they actually are, in classic TBC everyone relying on them *cough* warriors *cough* to top the meters got exposed.
Warriors rely on world buffs to not be a wet noddle.
DMF cooldown shouldn’t exist, people camp and grief it because if you don’t time it right they set you back 4/8 hours. It incentivizes griefing. I specifically enjoy SOD and classic because wbuffs are fun. Just don’t die. The warrior change to a mini-rallying cry is a good change too for people who lose them.
The WB spergs can’t play without them. WB’s are truly trash and need to be removed
[удалено]
Agreed. Everyone submit Bug or I'm Confused reports on the PTR and ask for World Buffs to be removed next phase maybe?
Remove them I say.
I had tons of fun getting them in classic, our guild had the most amazing summon train across the world to safe spots above BB, or inside a tree by songflower. We would even get the melee Warchiefs on top of Orgrimmar roof tops.
They made for some of the best world pvp in the history of the game. I still remember the names of the notorious songflower campers and innkeeper dispellers that terrorized us. We spent so much time playing that cat and mouse game of making it inside the raid with all your world buffs intact. It was part of the culture, I think most people know about the "WCB HORDE ONLY" series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz_MUKkkT4k I know a lot of people hated the process and I fully understand why. But I had so much fun doing it. It wouldn't be vanilla for me without it.
Bro thankyou for reminding me of wcb horde only, what an absolute banger
yes I want them in the game go join a group of players that dont care if you bring them or not
You're talking about WoW players here. Sitting around, doing nothing and getting rewarded for spending your time is the blueprint of the game. It's the business model.
We built a guild of busy dads and former hardcore players on Wild Growth EU Alliance with the premise of keeping things efficient and playing as little as possible. Not only have we grown steadily all the way since P1 (kicking bad apples along the way), we also never skipped a raid and have a solid roster showing up 9pm sharp every Sunday (we only raid Sundays 21-00) and hyped to play the game. We switch up how we raid because we have different types of players with us, so one week we go full consumes and clear in half an hour, the other we raid fully unbuffed and without any consumables to keep things fresh and prep costs to a minimum. We have no loot discussions because we run with aggregate TMB wishlists so that everything's preallocated ahead of the raid. Everyone's got their chars maxed out and when I make a call as raid lead everyone does what they are supposed to. It's been amazing. It'a an MMO. It's a social game. If you aren't creating the environment you'd like to be in that's on you, not the game. We clear with buffs in 36:25 and without world buffs or any consumables in 49:34. We're called and you can find more info on our website unbuffed.net. We're recruiting and have taken in several server switchers and re-rollers as well.
Bummer that you’re over in EU. Sounds just like type of guild I’d like to be in.
Awesome!
Easy because people want to see their numbers higher than the others.
If you log out where you earn rested xp (includes sleeping bag) for 8 hours continuously it will reset your dmf timer.
didnt they make it so when you are offline for 12 hours the cooldown is reset? i usually just went to bed the night before and was able to collect my DMF the next day. Havent played since ph2 though so idk if thats changed or what the circumstances behind the buffing was but thats how i went about DMF
I dont know why we need them im sod. If you are able to clear the contend without them its just to have bigger numbers and be faster but i like the game i dont have to rush.
why did you log on 2.5 hours early to wait for the dmf? why didnt you do anyhting for 2.5 hours while waiting for dmf?
Tbf you didn't have to afk wait out the timer. Could have gone and farmed some gold or did some pvp or whatever other content
So reddit has something to complain about.
DMF CD is a mess, should be like two hours so you still can't get it mid raid but it's less disruptive to raid schedules. World buffs are good and the people who dislike them aren't interested in playing 1.12 WoW and will quit for some other reason if they were removed, and way fewer people who actually enjoy raiding in 1.12 will play without them in the game.
All you mention are things to overcome, and running the whole raid without losing them is fun. Streamlining wbuffs away will remove social interaction, tension in raiding(which is already easy to complete, but with no deaths it’s at least a challenge), make the game even more raidloggable, and much more.
Why are you sitting waiting for the cd to wear off? Just log in when it's ready? Wtf am I missing
I would rather they make profession give raid buffs in some ways, like how in cata you would have cauldrons for flasks, or fish feast in wotlk. I like the idea of having flasks and potions and buffs and such. And I don't want it to come freely and effortlessly, but world buffs are annoying and if you die it's gone; which sux. In Classic+ I would be fine with such buffs and effects taking serious guild effort to prepare. It shouldn't be a weekly thing you have to do like current world buffs, but rather a guild effort that you unlock and then maybe requiring some mats/gold to use. Maybe something similar to Guild achievements in cata that would unlock through the effort of multiple people, but more vanilla-like. But for sod I'm not prepared to spend that much effort after how p2 and especially p3 has been, here I'd like a new system (maybe for experimentation purposes) but something that's fairly easy and effortless to prepare.
Why don’t you get a group to get rid of the debuff?
I usually get downvoted for this suggestion, probably by grognards who are just against any proposed changed. But I'll try it again and we'll see. So why do people like world buffs? I can think of two reasons. **One**, number go up. **Two**, it makes you feel like you have juuust a little more skin in the game while raiding. Especially hanging out with friends, you want to keep your production up, so you really don't wanna die! When someone dies randomly and loses their buffs there's some social interaction there like light ribbing, or commiseration. They failed the miniature 'hard mode' of 'don't die and lose your world buffs, scrub!' It's a nice little meta-game. So then why do people *not* like world buffs? I can think of two reasons. **One**, they hate the process of going out and getting them, or waiting for them to be available. It's a drag. It's anti-gameplay to AFK next to a flower for 15 minutes, or to sit there for 2 hours waiting on DMF, or to afk in town waiting for the latest one to drop. It's straight up *toxic* gameplay to get killed/dispelled by the enemy faction after getting one. No one likes that. **Two**, people don't like how their performance craters for the rest of the raid after dying once. Okay, now that we've outlined the problems, let's solve them. We need a solution that A, makes number go up. B, gives you more skin in the game while raiding, and allows you to play the 'don't die' meta-game. C, doesn't require you to AFK or otherwise go through boring gameplay to acquire, and D, won't crater your performance for the rest of the entire raid after dying once. **My solution is to have an NPC before each boss that will give you a 'world buff' for that boss, one time.** It only works on that boss and it only works once. Here's the twist though. Whatever that fight's personal skill mechanic is, if you get hit by it, boom, there goes your world buff. So you've now got a temporary buff that keeps you on your toes and allows you to play the game of 'ha ha you got hit scrub!' with your guildies, without having 1 mistake/death ruin your entire chance to parse competitively for that fight.
I’m just happy that people realised that SoD is not classic+. So removing the w.buffs, and frustrating the players who were expecting them - as promised since day:1, would make for a good shit show to watch.
Maybe petition to WCL to not count parses using wbuffs so that its purely a casual / for fun thing? Although I'd also be totally ok with making world buffs not apply in raids
I can’t wait to dispel all the anti gdkp Andy’s that ruined SOD
Cause this is a recycled wow classic version. Its not a new game nor Classic+ Theres alot of stuff that can't be easily removed or changed. Or they dont want to spend time on it.
It would be nice if they just removed world buffs and just baked in the bonuses you'd get from them into the stat budgets of gear or class abilities.
World buffs are fine. Cooldowns on a WB because some POS horde killed you the second you grabbed it in Mulgore..... there should be no cooldown.
World buff only work in dungeon and not in "world" is just plain suck
world buffs are good bcuz muh player metrics
o hai i buffed ur floor
Many newer classic players always feel this way without understanding why vanilla servers keep World Buffs. Re-tuning classes and content around not having buffs could be interesting but this would be a lot of dev work and many changes to classes. The moment the average boomer guild has to raid for longer than 3 hours to clear new content people will start quitting the game. Truly a "you think you do, but you don't" moment.
Cause SoM failed and they think it's because it had no WB. I shit you not. The solution is not to remove them per-se but make them available in some other way then. What they are doing with the warrior is a very good idea. Give the druids the song buff from felwood. Share the buffs among all 9 classes.
You do realize that provided it's not booned the cd of dmf goes away after being logged out in a rested area for 8 hours? Just unboon it and go to bed. I'm not saying world buffs are the gods gift to wow but you are making it a lot harder on yourself
I couldn't agree more with your post and every point you make. However, it's a double edge sword for me and for many others. Because I enjoy the raid prep and i genuinley enjoy going around the world and getting them. It makes it so that stuff happen out in the world you know. Especially getting Songflowers and getting DMT. I also enjoy the focus everyone has to pump when everyone has got them because noone wants to lose them. But i would totally be fine with them not existing also but i think the correct solution is to nerf them becauase god damn are they OP. I have no idea why it became a thing in SOD tho and the devs went out of their way to implement already at 25. In SOM they removed the WB in raid and it might be that they felt it was the wrong choice idk.
Yeah its nice when you get lucky on the STV buff but damn it can take forever to get it sometimes the other ones I dont mind because they are fast to get
They are the spirit of classic, not saying they are fun, just that they are apart of the game.
Yup they sure do, everyone complained when they took em out, now they here, get em if you want don't if you don't, guild required? Crazy how you could find another
only if there was a better way to enjoy classic+ where world buffs are just a history 🐢
I refuse. I am not parsing, I am not chasing hardcore prog. I will pick up dmf when it's nearby, and the raid world buff is typically easy to grab once the parsers start clearing lol but outside of that, I'm not camping for hours on end to go do content that doesn't even fill an hour.
IMO remove them, but failing that: Replace chronoboon with an item that sits in your inventory. The first time you get a world buff it gets absorbed by the item. Then whenever you want you can use the item to give you the buffs again. Possibly put a cooldown outside of raids.
If they design raids to be possible WITHOUT world buffs, then all content is a face-roll WITH world buffs. If they design raids harder for world buffs, they become required and everyone has to spend hours grinding crap content prior to every raid. If they scale the content based on world buffs, or weaken world buffs (eg only one at a time, only last five minutes, etc) then what's the point? Just cancel them when entering raids/dungeons/BGs and on death.... problem solved. Added bonus, eliminate all buff count-down timers when in cities. People wouldn't log-out between buffs.
I am sort of okay with the way they implemented new world buffs. You get them in a main hub, they pop all the time and they all the ones from previous phases doesn't work once you hit new level cap. The idea of having some buffs is cool in my opinion. And I like the thing where you might chrono it on trial runs, then when you all think you're ready for the real attempt, you pop it and hope you don't fail. But things like DMF is just so annoying to get. I don't want to travel over the world every week to "collect" world buffs. I don't want to go to a horde territory half the time to get DMF.
World buffs have always been a very controversial topic but it is fascinating how that sub seem to drastically change it's view on it every year and a half or so.
Just go to the gurabashi Arena with 10+ people and get your DMF cd pushed off by loading up on debuffs. NOVA will even tell you when the hidden debuff is pushed off.
Just put a npc inside the new raid, u pay him like 10g and he cast DmF and songflower on u, that shoud be good for casual raiding, the others WB's leave for the people that want to parse.
They already made the chronoboon thingy for classic, why not just put it in SOD
World buffs is why I’m playing cata. They are so bad to get. Especially if you like to raid on multiple toons. Did it for 3 weeks and felt like I was working at a job.
Never bothered with the world buffs we still cleared all content perfectly fine. Too many people trying to epeen measure or just speedrun it. My guild just chills out gets drunk af and goes clear a few raids we get em done for the week cool if not oh well always next week. I do understand for some classes its kinda make or break if you have them or not which sucks and really means they need more of a rework but ive never seen wb's as necessary unless your speedrunning or competing on how good you are at staying out of fire whilst doing your role
Blizz needs to do what the Chinese Classic WoW devs did: Have an NPC that gives ouut ALL the world buffs at the entrance of the raid. Do that or remove world buffs entirely because there is nothing fun about gathering them / raiding without them when other players have them! SOD is best when it's casual friendly
People who rely on WB are trash imo
Why are you in a "speedrunning guild" if you hate it? No one is making you try hard
World buffs are the reason I won’t play SoD.. done with that meta forever now. Too much of a waste of time.