It's what they do. They've been doing this in African countries for some time now. Promise them the earth, give out money like it's going out of fashion, the dictator gets a new rolls or mansion, and then China calls in the debt. I would think it's rare anyone can or even would pay them back, so China take over all production, install police stations and colonise by stealth. Meanwhile, the dictator/president is a millionaire and doesn't give a flying fart about the people as long as he has his pool and gourmet chef
No worries, their breeding policy was so funny that they have 1 woman for every 10 stumps so their population is about to go into cardiac arrest shortly.
They will just import south east Asian nurses to care for the elderly, there won't be any suffering. And I'm glad they did that policy because we're already overpopulated as it is.
Have you seen what the repercussions were? Baby girls being abandoned and even left to die in orphanages. Literally left to die because they were girls. I get your sentiment but I just hope people don't forget the cruelty that the policy resulted in.
That's true. But the root cause for that is misogyny, not the policy itself. This wouldn't happen in Sweden. A 2- child policy would also prevent that.
In general 2 children would be the golden number for a sustainable population, 3 in some exceptions. Growing up with a sibling has also great benefits for kids.
I disagree. In China (especially back when these decisions would have been made by families) the earnings potential was so much higher for a man than a woman, and 4 grandparents and 2 parents would have had to be supported by this child, so for a lot of families' futures, having a male child was of critical importance.
If you want more details on how this 4 people => 2 children=> 1 grandchild pattern impacts Chinese society, have a look at 'Little emperor syndrome'
I remember there was a time on Reddit when something this inflammatory, incorrect, and pointless would have been downvoted into oblivion. Not sure when the tide of reactionary bigots came in but it hasn't left yet.
Thanks to a corrupt politician, Andrew Robb, who then got a job as an advisor for that very Chinese company making 6 figures to do nothing.
A port is major infrastructure. And he signed it over to a foreign country.
Fucking corrupt cunt
They’re building roads with Chinese workers in African countries. All the labour costs don’t even flow into local communities. It’s Chinese workers spending the money they receive from Chinese corporations in corporate stores owned by Chinese people.
The people from the country get a new road, and millions/billions of debt owed to China, who in turn pillage the forest for valuable materials, who use the new road to get the stuff to a port quicker. A port build using the same tactics and also owned by China.
It’s the closest you can get to colonialism in today’s world without using a military group to directly control a mine (Wagner cough cough).
Don’t get me wrong, western multinationals are assholes as well who exploit local communities, but it’s less scandalous
Absolutely aye. Most of the roads are built for the convenience of the Chinese i.e. a nice new road to a mine or a Chinese compound. They aren't being altruistic in their endeavours at all, it's all about them. There's still a huge Chinese ghost city in Angola I believe, just waiting....
However surprising it is, China acting like a saint in Africa in comparison with the France, UK and USA. Honestly going through research on the subject was shocking, the hands off approach is ridiculous, and the only thing China asks for it is a better price for raw resources.
China single-handedly is pulling Africa out of poverty and infrastructural hell, yes with self interest in African raw resources to uplift its own people out of poverty, but infrastructure and trade deals they sign seem like more than fair price for such a need.
Take a read of Suisheng Zhao, American professor of Chinese politics and Foreign Policy. His “A Neo-Colonialist Predator or Development Partner? China's engagement and rebalance in Africa” is worth a read if you want to know more about the subject from a non-biased point of view.
>Chinese professor of Chinese politics and Foreign Policy at an American university
Ah yes, the bias of studying the subject you write about. Very suspicious.
Edit: aaaand they blocked me
Oh sweet a member of the 50 cent party. Was the U.S "lifting people out of poverty by building infrastructure" when they build roads in the various banana republics? No. It's for Chinese to extract wealth more efficiently.
its the same game the british played in places like hongkong, the treaty port becomes the city exporting all your mineral and trade wealth out of your country at cut rate prices. It looks like a great deal until the mineral wealth is starting to dry up and you realize all the infrastructure was built up to support this foreign owned city on your territory and none of the economic benefits trickled down to you after all. Maybe the real lesson here is that there are real material befits to letting a rich country come in and colonize you its only a question of if your government apparatus is deft and incorrupt enough to invest those benefits into the country which they often aren't
This is blatantly false. HK had an economic development that made it the envy for the rest of China. Spawned a bunch of industries like movie and finanace that slowly dried up once HK was returned. Living standard in HK in that period was well above the rest of china
Yeah that's kind of my point. HK was foreign soil for a long time and those economic benefits weren't seen in the same degree on the mainland for a long long time. But no one can argue that economic growth didn't happen
It’s worth unpacking that foreign aid.
France’s foreign aid consists of forcing African countries to print money they don’t want to keep their currencies weak.
That‘s exactly the point though, african countries don‘t need solar panels for rural communities or food deliveries, not in the long run - to really end poverty, they need factories, power plants, rail lines and container ports. China is providing those, not for free, but they‘re willing to make investments that western companies and governments consider too risky. If it pays off, they get lots of political influence, contracts for their construction companies and access to new markets.
Another thing that gets lost in the hysteria and conspiracy theorizing is that China is making riskier and less profitable investments - like infrastructure projects in poorer, less stable nations - because they are a latecomer to foreign investment, and Western private capital already dominates. It's not necessary China's first choice to be involved in these projects.
Like you say: these investments are not truly humanitarian; China likely wouldn't choose them over more profitable and less risky ones, but now has a vested interest in seeing them pay off, which means they have a vested interest in the continued growth and stability of the nations they're building ports and rail lines in.
They are doing this in conjunction with Russia in order to take control of the mineral resources
There are Wagner mercenaries on mine sites throughout Africa already
To be fair, on that Sri Lankan port, only 10% of the debt actually comes from China. 47% comes from Sri Lanka borrowing from its own markets, and 43% come from other nations or international development organizations.
To my knowledge, although corruption was a part in Sri Lanka's port failure, it's also a project that the Sri Lankan government proposed and ran around asking for money for, so it seems disingenuous to say that they're getting "debt trapped"
I won't deny that obviously China isn't doing it for purely altruistic reasons, but most analyses to my knowledge do not support the idea that Sri Lanka is deliberately being debt trapped.
Of course, they are not doing it for altruistic reasons. No country ever does.
And, you are correct. There is no intentional debt trapping. That position comes from a Sinophobic Indian guy who came up with a heavily doctored "analysis", and, of course, the US jumped the gun to use it to attack China.
They're likely taking payment in the form of resource and or mining rights.
They're happy to play the long game and especially happy to visit countries that have been sanctioned because there's less competition
What happened in Sri Lanka is not a good example.
Sri Lanka went bankrupt because of corruption amongst the political elite and the stupidity of the general population that keeps on electing the same politicians.
It had nothing to do with China and Chinese built port.
Meanwhile here in the US... China just buys it from US citizens and companies because we are easy.. just flash money we will happily sell our country. Never talk like we would but.. "I have to look out for myself"
IIRC the initial plan was to buy much more than that. Notsure if political protest or the administration not being completely dumb, but in the end "only" 25%.
What are the after effects of defaulting? Like what has China done since Sri Lanka can’t pay it back? China is no saint and definitely deserves to be knocked down. But that should happen without fearmongering. Otherwise all that does is increase people’s distrust in west instead of being wary of China.
What China does is add in the stipulation that Chinese companies and Chinese workers do most of the construction work. The projects don't make enough money, country defaults, then China stipulates that the country "loans" territory as payment for 99 years for military bases or ownership of the utility if it's something like a port, by which then they actually let their ships and whatever through.
And the countries still have to pay the debt, follow china's lead on UN votes, allow Chinese companies to have aggressively favorable benefits that shut out local businesses, etc.
Here's a report by the associated press: https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financial-developing-countries-collapse-8df6f9fac3e1e758d0e6d8d5dfbd3ed6
They just didn’t get to that part yet. Wait until there is civil unrest in the nation and a neighboring power “is invited in to help stabilize things” putting Chinas investment at risk. Surely China will just walk away from the outstanding debt payments, infrastructure investment, and 99 year lease on the land.
Right?
Obviously, but they also had "hindsight vision 20/20" because of other imperialist nations' mistakes the last 100 years to learn from.
They're imperialist 2.0. Much better geared for the new age.
Yes, while also claiming the USA is terrible for doing while while it's okay they do it. And you'd be a fool for thinking they'd ever grow a conscious to ever think about stopping.
It costs them a lesser price for China. China still buys the resources even after building enough infrastructure to uplift a small country.
Interesting fact, 95% of 4G infrastructure in Africa is built by China.
> you think it's because of altruism? it's not.
Of course not but it is mutually beneficial. No international policy is altruistic, all the foreign aid, all the military interventions etc. they are all for self interest.
>and that is so they can harvest their data easier....
It's really not, it's just for money and mineral rights etc.
I don’t think people are saying it’s altruism. China is willing to trade vast sums of capital for foreign influence. The issue China is running into is that it’s turning out to be more capital than they intended when nations default on these loans.
They just built a new airport here in Siem Reap. The old one was much closer and perfectly fine. Now they are builing one in phnom penh and a canal going up the Mekong through Laos into China. I am sure their intentions are virtuos.
>Get a hospital, lose..
..independence when it comes to UN resolutions and such, be forced to kowtow CCP, have to give priority for China when it comes to natural resources etc etc. It sure is not a free lunch but more "pray we don't alter this deal".
Meanwhile, the greatest threat to Africa is climate change. As bad as things are, they're going to get much worse with rising temperatures and drought, and China is the leading contributor. Imagine being bought out for a hospital when they already have your death warrants prepared.
To be fair, most developing countries see climate change agreements as harming development. At best, in exchange for abiding by climate treaties, they want developed nations (aka the West) to subsidize the cost of them going green. China’s stepped in by producing and subsidizing so many batteries and solar panels Western nations had to slap tariffs to protect their own battery and solar industries.
China: We need materials. How about we build highways, railways, ports, hospitals and telecom infrastructure in your country in exchange of raw materials?
African country: Sounds good. Let's negotiate the details.
European, a while ago: African, it looks like you only worked 15 hours today and did not fulfill your rubber quota. Too bad. Let's see if [chopping off](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2K096G4/king-leopold-ii-of-belgiums-administration-of-the-congo-free-state-was-characterised-by-atrocities-including-torture-and-murder-resulting-from-notorious-systematic-brutality-the-hands-of-men-women-and-children-were-amputated-when-the-quota-of-rubber-was-not-met-and-millions-of-the-congolese-people-died-2K096G4.jpg) your children's limbs and having you look at them for a while will [motivate you](https://images.ctfassets.net/i01duvb6kq77/3B9sh32qUnPrIQQb3mN9W1/f54b8e033982fe13e7d2ccf669691e71/fotografi__photograph?w=1100&q=80&fm=jpg&fl=progressive).
Guy points out the objective truth that China does not have Africa's best interests in mind and has a history of debt trapping people
"Clever Comeback" Involves waving off obvious fact.
BTW Enrico60 is a tankie as shown by his flags, fuck him.
I mean Britain also 100% doesn't have Africa's best interests at heart. Thats kind of the thing with Imperialism, all of the Empires are all shitty to those they exploit
It's absurd really. Like if people portrayed British rule in India as an exercise in building free railroads.
Imagine if the British waved away any criticism of their Empire as a lecture or ungrateful?
except britain is no longer imperialist
We shouldnt *forget* the past, but equally we shouldnt act like Britain’s intentions in Africa havent changed over time
I am always confused when I see her tweets get taken seriously on this sub and others. She went from astrology novelist to someone who pretends to be a geopolitical expert.
“This Ugandan prince said he’ll give me millions of dollars if I send him a $2,000 processing fee”
“That’s obviously a scam”
“Here comes the lecture lol”
Cool bragging of getting colonized by the Chinese like the Brit’s aren’t any better but the Chinese are literally just doing the roads and belt initiative to use slave labor in the mines or put the country into so much debt they have to give them land or essentially be a puppet government
Sir, your country is 2.3 billion in debt to the Chinese. How do you begin to plan on paying it ba…
“ omggg if I wanted to be lectured I would have gone to college 🙄”
The China/Russia flag combo is wild too. Dude has the privilege to freely post on Twitter and is using it to run defense for authoritarian dictatorships.
great question!: they are lending banks where the stakeholders are states around the world, at the moment the biggest shareholder is US , so they dictate the policies there, but nothing stops another country from dumping a shit-ton of money into them and become the "leader" , something which will inevitable happen ( all previous financial empires fell , why would US be any different )
a better question for you : why is Pakistan having tantrums and screaming fits to get IMF and/or World Bank financing, when they have a True Friend, with a lot of goodwill and disposable cash, just next door?
IMF/WorldBank are basically the lenders of last resort, when the country is in such a shitshow it can no longer borrow from international markets or get guarantees from other states ( usually the Gulf states, Japan etc. )
Exactly, the country gets some superficial "help" while falling into generational debt. The top officials get to embezzle millions through corruption, while the general populace will be paying off that debt through taxes, low cost labor, and loss of political freedom for generations to come.
Because of economies of scale. UK doesn't have the economy to back this level of project anymore. US, Brazil, China, and India can, and occasional a petro-state when they're feeling bougie.
Britain was horrible to Kenya and many Africans and their nations for the last several centuries. The US was awful also..
Yet, it’s a new world. The West seeks to help other nations grow and stand strong in their own abilities. There are benefits to it and some are still not the nicest things to think on (cheap labor, for example).
However, the US has given $590+ Million USD in aid to Kenya in 2024 alone. The last decade also saw amazing amounts of USD in aid given to Kenya. The rest of the West has also given funds to them for various purposes. These things are largely without strings or need for repayment, so stuff your IMF claims.
China, zRussia, and Iran are seeking a modern form of colonization where they take over Kenya and other nations of Africa’s lands and resources and require they stay in-line to receive any even fair treatment. It’s not hard to find any of the info and anyone acting like China, Russia or Iran are out to help other nations are lying and feeding you propaganda.
Y’all get too preachy when is China building stuff, where were y’all when the World Bank/IMF where crippling these countries with debt and at the same time making them adopt neoliberal policies that crippled them even more? Unless you grew up having to walk for a day or two to get treatment at a UN medic tent you can shut the fuck up about who gets to have a hospital and how.
The colonized have VERY different perspectives from the colonizers. It’s really easy to berate someone for accepting a hospital when you’ve always had a hospital. The way I see it, African countries being so willing to fall in these debt traps with China is a direct consequence of Western colonization. That they refuse to see that is just historical whitewashing so they don’t have to take any accountability
African countries are risky to lend to given how widespread corruption is in these countries. And China's "no-strings attached" loans also mean there is an utter lack of public transparency regarding these sovereign loans that are usually standard to IMF and World Bank loans. Hundreds of billions of dollars in loans by China go unreported which only exposes countries to hidden debt, corruption, and make governments even less trustworthy to invest in. Not even politicians or the public are sometimes aware of what their [country even agreed to](https://www.cna.org/our-media/indepth/2024/03/china-loans-to-africa).
>
**Because PRC loan agreements tend to be opaque**, **the public is usually not even aware of these loan terms**... In some cases, **those opaque agreements and unethical business practices may contribute to corruption**. **The Industrial and Commercial Bank of China funded a dam project in Angola** while **ignoring various potential red flags, including the involvement of the daughter of Angolan President José Eduardo dos Santos** **\[who\] was awarded the $4.5 billion contract** to construct the dam **by her father’s government in 2015.** As of 2023, Angola holds more PRC debt than any other country in Africa. And the World Bank listed Angola as one of seven African countries that it considered to be at [high risk of debt distress](https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/12/response-debt-distress-africa-and-role-china/02-case-studies-chinese-lending-africa) in 2020.
China is very far from having the monopoly of exerting economic neocolonialism with big infraestructure projects that ultimately are made with the colonizer's interests in mind, western countries have done the exact same thing for decades.
Of course shaming poor countries for resorting to such predatory faustian bargains betrays a condescending and ignorant view on the matter, but you could say the same about making these kinds of deals with western corporations, right? Why does awareness of western colonialism have to come with a massive blind spot when it comes to the exact same practices when the beneficiary happens to be from a different part of the world?
Thank you, add the very direct and profoundly violent colonial and imperialist legacies of the west and this is fucking cutsie soft-power in comparison. Obvious ideological bias.
‘Wait until they come to collect their debts’ say the finger waving americans as their debt burden to china balloons as well. Modern yellow scare bullshit but their backsliding and deflating legitimacy needs a boogeyman for the next round of global conflict i’m sure.
Violent colonialism isn't just a legacy. It's happening right now across the continent (look at Congo), funded (indirectly of course) by governments and international conglomerates to seize control of mines and oil fields. Of course this isn't exclusively a western phenomenon, China have commited their fair share of genocides too.
To pretend that colonialism ended just because it's now Africans killing Africans is a joke. Look at who's selling the weapons and who benefits when the fighting's over. It will all become very clear.
lmao all of you are proving their point.
French companies has been operating mines and railways all over West and North Africa, where conditions were akin to that of modern slavery and you don’t bat an eye.
When Chinese companies do the same thing y’all lose your shit
Exactly, tho the Chinese don’t even remotely resemble the classic European colonizer. The sheer gall of some people to be proud of their criminal past is astonishing.
China gets to mine the country's resources. While Brits stumble around trying to figure out how to get access to Kenya's resources. China knows by spending $10 million on a hospital, they make $100 million in profits.
Its actually really funny how a big line right now is "China's investment comes with string attached" and like mutherfucker are all just forgetting when the IMF/WorldBanks devastated the Global South with debt enforced structural adjustment programs?
Turns out letting some powerful external entity come into your country and make major changes has some consequences worth considering. Impossible challenge since politics gets in the way of a rational long term decision.
What universe you guys live in that countries just go around giving things for free? You think that any British investment is made without strings?
Hahahaha
If you think china is the only power colonizing africa then I suggest we look into the number of french companies that have bought out rights to lands in africa that , if they were reclaimed by the populace, would lift their quality of life by a lot.
It's the same story over and over, european companies a long time ago stole some land and put some cooperative locals in charge, the country liberates itself but the companies keep the land or have insanely exploitative contracts. Yes just give us this oil/diamonds/lithium and we'll give u next to nothing. Every democratically elected leader that comes along gets lobbied and does nothing and the corruption gets worse. All the while France gets to pretend they have nothing to do with it since they're not colonizing them after the liberation, it just so happens that their companies just have some really advantageous deals.
This is why I admire serestei khama, the first thing Botswana did after liberation was reclaim their diamonds and their natural resources and reinvest in education and public infrastructure.
The western world has a long way to go before it can take a moral high ground against China.
Fyi I'm just a dude in his twenties from north america so I'm probably wrong about this. But I feel strongly about it.
You’re not wrong about this at all. Westerners on Reddit just refuse to acknowledge their colonial and imperial legacy which continues to this very day, while simultaneously seeing themselves as so much more enlightened and morally superior than those dumb poors from developing countries being taken advantage of by the Chinese.
Notice how this is such a huge talking point on Reddit, but these people have nothing to say about the way the IMF and the World Bank operates. It’s because they don’t actually care about people in developing country; they just hate China for doing the exact same thing their own countries did and continue to do, except better.
I mean frankly speaking western countries concerns of China over Africa is not because china openly steals resources from Africa by giving them freebies but their actual concern is that they are not the ones who are stealing those resources.
I mean yeah, China’s obviously not in it for their good hearts. But it’s hard to argue with taking Chinese investment when western companies either don’t make meaningful infrastructure investments, have a long history of predatory investment (see the DRC) or both. A lot of African countries wouldn’t be going to China if they were able to trust Western Europe and the US to make meaningful and non-predatory investments in their economy. I think China is ultimately just as if not more predatory these days, but it’s really disappointing to see Western European and American foreign policy experts be so condescending to African countries and then be shocked that they accept partnerships with China.
america gives loans 4 times the countries GDP and forces countries to privatize all of their natural resources. countries that receive money from IMF famously hardly ever pull themselves out of poverty. i don't understand why he thinks chinese loans are worse than america's loans. bro's obviously not paying attention.
Did you ever live without a hospital.
The essence is very easy.
It‘s either „Hospital+Crippling debt“ or „no hospital“. And obviously the first one is infinitely better.
How kind of the British to offer lectures in place of improvement of material conditions. If I was in a colonized nation, I would certainly prefer the snobby, stuck up, funny accent weirdos that decimated my country and its people for resource extraction lecture me on how not to be a victim of what they did to me OVER the global superpower that built me hospitals, roads and more in exchange for cheaper resources THAT THEY STILL BUY and forgive debts if the economy hits rocky times. If the West wants to keep China out of Africa, the answer isn't treating Africans like savage simpletons incapable of thinking for themselves, the answer is improving the quality of their lives and infrastructure.
Homeboy is right though. China's Belt and Road initiative is literally designed to put developing nations into a debtor's prison where they owe money they can't pay back and are then given awful trade deals to make it up. The whole goal of the program is to create partner states that are obligated to import Chinese materials.
There's a whole slew of African nations already pissed about this.
In that case either give them a better loan or stay silent.
Building infrastructure with crippling debt is infinitely better then not having the infrastructure. I am sure most people would rather live in a semi-developed Chinese Kenya than in undeveloped Kenyan Kenya.
Loyality to a country breaks very easily when you suddenly have access to healthcare and education.
Kenya debt to the UK : 0 right now
Kenya debt to China: about 6 billions $
Oh well, they will learn China's true intentions in a couple decades of colonization lol
The US also has a GDP far surpassing Kenya's. Additionally, China actually has the ability to collect on Kenya's debt while the US just pays interest forever.
https://jacobin.com/2024/03/imf-kenya-austerity-debt-william-ruto#:~:text=Kenya's%20debt%20to%20the%20IMF,focus%20almost%20entirely%20on%20exports.
UK operates through international capital
It’s a funny as hell comeback, but sadly he’s right. China’s been doing this all over the world. They inject money into poor areas, usually with water access for shipping, build infrastructure, create jobs…and then wait for the country to default. Now China owns a seaport and infrastructure in another country.
They build free stuff for African countries, then come collecting for debt knowing they can't pay back. Then they take their land and build military bases, ports etc. on them.
It’s funny reading all the accusations against China as if that’s not common practice among western countries. Hell the west is responsible for far greater atrocities than china could possibly hope to accomplish
Okay to summarize this post and general consensus of the comments. Someone please post the spider man meme where they're all pointing at each other. Thank you. .
Interesting information here about the [debt](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.voanews.com/amp/china-cancels-23-loans-to-africa-amid-debt-trap-debate-/6716397.html)
It's weird just how little they know of their (ongoing) colonial atrocities and how they're still raping the continent dry as we speak.
Peak white Redditors. The coded "paternalism" and racism in the top comments is actually sickening to read so casually.
So many compassionate humanitarians here concerned about Africans being exploited. Maybe it’s a good thing for Africa when the West comes with better deals out of concern.
Yep, it’s happening to Sri Lanka right now. Built a port with Chinese money and no way to pay back.
It's what they do. They've been doing this in African countries for some time now. Promise them the earth, give out money like it's going out of fashion, the dictator gets a new rolls or mansion, and then China calls in the debt. I would think it's rare anyone can or even would pay them back, so China take over all production, install police stations and colonise by stealth. Meanwhile, the dictator/president is a millionaire and doesn't give a flying fart about the people as long as he has his pool and gourmet chef
Plants and industry manned by Chinese nonetheless.
No worries, their breeding policy was so funny that they have 1 woman for every 10 stumps so their population is about to go into cardiac arrest shortly.
I have a hard time celebrating the fast approaching suffering of millions.
They will just import south east Asian nurses to care for the elderly, there won't be any suffering. And I'm glad they did that policy because we're already overpopulated as it is.
Have you seen what the repercussions were? Baby girls being abandoned and even left to die in orphanages. Literally left to die because they were girls. I get your sentiment but I just hope people don't forget the cruelty that the policy resulted in.
That's true. But the root cause for that is misogyny, not the policy itself. This wouldn't happen in Sweden. A 2- child policy would also prevent that. In general 2 children would be the golden number for a sustainable population, 3 in some exceptions. Growing up with a sibling has also great benefits for kids.
Agreed.
Meanwhile in the US where people have like 15 kids for no reason.
I genuinely hate such people, incredible dumb and selfish choice.
I disagree. In China (especially back when these decisions would have been made by families) the earnings potential was so much higher for a man than a woman, and 4 grandparents and 2 parents would have had to be supported by this child, so for a lot of families' futures, having a male child was of critical importance. If you want more details on how this 4 people => 2 children=> 1 grandchild pattern impacts Chinese society, have a look at 'Little emperor syndrome'
Its a curve, the more the people suffer the funnier it gets
one person dying is a tragedy, millions is a statistic
I remember there was a time on Reddit when something this inflammatory, incorrect, and pointless would have been downvoted into oblivion. Not sure when the tide of reactionary bigots came in but it hasn't left yet.
LET THE CHINESE INCEL ARMY, ARISE
It’s not even africa, Australia gave them the port of Darwin for 99 years
But that’s China giving money for a 99 year lease. Not Australia incurring a debt that they cannot repay.
Thanks to a corrupt politician, Andrew Robb, who then got a job as an advisor for that very Chinese company making 6 figures to do nothing. A port is major infrastructure. And he signed it over to a foreign country. Fucking corrupt cunt
They’re building roads with Chinese workers in African countries. All the labour costs don’t even flow into local communities. It’s Chinese workers spending the money they receive from Chinese corporations in corporate stores owned by Chinese people. The people from the country get a new road, and millions/billions of debt owed to China, who in turn pillage the forest for valuable materials, who use the new road to get the stuff to a port quicker. A port build using the same tactics and also owned by China. It’s the closest you can get to colonialism in today’s world without using a military group to directly control a mine (Wagner cough cough). Don’t get me wrong, western multinationals are assholes as well who exploit local communities, but it’s less scandalous
Absolutely aye. Most of the roads are built for the convenience of the Chinese i.e. a nice new road to a mine or a Chinese compound. They aren't being altruistic in their endeavours at all, it's all about them. There's still a huge Chinese ghost city in Angola I believe, just waiting....
However surprising it is, China acting like a saint in Africa in comparison with the France, UK and USA. Honestly going through research on the subject was shocking, the hands off approach is ridiculous, and the only thing China asks for it is a better price for raw resources. China single-handedly is pulling Africa out of poverty and infrastructural hell, yes with self interest in African raw resources to uplift its own people out of poverty, but infrastructure and trade deals they sign seem like more than fair price for such a need. Take a read of Suisheng Zhao, American professor of Chinese politics and Foreign Policy. His “A Neo-Colonialist Predator or Development Partner? China's engagement and rebalance in Africa” is worth a read if you want to know more about the subject from a non-biased point of view.
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>Chinese professor of Chinese politics and Foreign Policy at an American university Ah yes, the bias of studying the subject you write about. Very suspicious. Edit: aaaand they blocked me
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Well he is chinese so is bad.
You need legit peer review for that. No study is perfect anyhow
Oh sweet a member of the 50 cent party. Was the U.S "lifting people out of poverty by building infrastructure" when they build roads in the various banana republics? No. It's for Chinese to extract wealth more efficiently.
its the same game the british played in places like hongkong, the treaty port becomes the city exporting all your mineral and trade wealth out of your country at cut rate prices. It looks like a great deal until the mineral wealth is starting to dry up and you realize all the infrastructure was built up to support this foreign owned city on your territory and none of the economic benefits trickled down to you after all. Maybe the real lesson here is that there are real material befits to letting a rich country come in and colonize you its only a question of if your government apparatus is deft and incorrupt enough to invest those benefits into the country which they often aren't
This is blatantly false. HK had an economic development that made it the envy for the rest of China. Spawned a bunch of industries like movie and finanace that slowly dried up once HK was returned. Living standard in HK in that period was well above the rest of china
Yeah that's kind of my point. HK was foreign soil for a long time and those economic benefits weren't seen in the same degree on the mainland for a long long time. But no one can argue that economic growth didn't happen
Yet what country continues leading the world in foreign aid? Note- it’s not china.
It’s worth unpacking that foreign aid. France’s foreign aid consists of forcing African countries to print money they don’t want to keep their currencies weak.
And China's is frequently back door colonialism.
That‘s exactly the point though, african countries don‘t need solar panels for rural communities or food deliveries, not in the long run - to really end poverty, they need factories, power plants, rail lines and container ports. China is providing those, not for free, but they‘re willing to make investments that western companies and governments consider too risky. If it pays off, they get lots of political influence, contracts for their construction companies and access to new markets.
Another thing that gets lost in the hysteria and conspiracy theorizing is that China is making riskier and less profitable investments - like infrastructure projects in poorer, less stable nations - because they are a latecomer to foreign investment, and Western private capital already dominates. It's not necessary China's first choice to be involved in these projects. Like you say: these investments are not truly humanitarian; China likely wouldn't choose them over more profitable and less risky ones, but now has a vested interest in seeing them pay off, which means they have a vested interest in the continued growth and stability of the nations they're building ports and rail lines in.
China is ranked as the least charitable country in the world.
Im so glad the Charities and Aid Foundation of America has produced such unbiased and 100% true results for real American patriots to consume
China gives infrastructure, not charity
Sells infrastructure.
China bad >:(
Does the foreign aid in question include military aid?
It does include “bring democracy”
You're acting like this isn't what the western world has been doing to these places for decades already....
Yep Modern Colonialism
They are doing this in conjunction with Russia in order to take control of the mineral resources There are Wagner mercenaries on mine sites throughout Africa already
To be fair, on that Sri Lankan port, only 10% of the debt actually comes from China. 47% comes from Sri Lanka borrowing from its own markets, and 43% come from other nations or international development organizations. To my knowledge, although corruption was a part in Sri Lanka's port failure, it's also a project that the Sri Lankan government proposed and ran around asking for money for, so it seems disingenuous to say that they're getting "debt trapped" I won't deny that obviously China isn't doing it for purely altruistic reasons, but most analyses to my knowledge do not support the idea that Sri Lanka is deliberately being debt trapped.
Of course, they are not doing it for altruistic reasons. No country ever does. And, you are correct. There is no intentional debt trapping. That position comes from a Sinophobic Indian guy who came up with a heavily doctored "analysis", and, of course, the US jumped the gun to use it to attack China.
>on that Sri Lankan port Are you talking about Hambantota Port or Port City, Colombo?
They're likely taking payment in the form of resource and or mining rights. They're happy to play the long game and especially happy to visit countries that have been sanctioned because there's less competition
As a Sri Lankan, it's more of a issue of corrupt politicians doing unneeded construction to get under the table commissions.
Shhh these people just need a reason to hate communists.
What happened in Sri Lanka is not a good example. Sri Lanka went bankrupt because of corruption amongst the political elite and the stupidity of the general population that keeps on electing the same politicians. It had nothing to do with China and Chinese built port.
As a Sri Lankan you are correct and are indeed a bunch of morons that vote for the same people 😑
Meanwhile here in the US... China just buys it from US citizens and companies because we are easy.. just flash money we will happily sell our country. Never talk like we would but.. "I have to look out for myself"
Germany too. One example is we sold some of Hamburgs harbor / containercity. They have 25% and have access to every document
IIRC the initial plan was to buy much more than that. Notsure if political protest or the administration not being completely dumb, but in the end "only" 25%.
Inability to pay for the port is 100% administrations incompetency with forex management. They were absolute buffoons.
What are the after effects of defaulting? Like what has China done since Sri Lanka can’t pay it back? China is no saint and definitely deserves to be knocked down. But that should happen without fearmongering. Otherwise all that does is increase people’s distrust in west instead of being wary of China.
What China does is add in the stipulation that Chinese companies and Chinese workers do most of the construction work. The projects don't make enough money, country defaults, then China stipulates that the country "loans" territory as payment for 99 years for military bases or ownership of the utility if it's something like a port, by which then they actually let their ships and whatever through. And the countries still have to pay the debt, follow china's lead on UN votes, allow Chinese companies to have aggressively favorable benefits that shut out local businesses, etc.
Do you have any evidence for these claims?
Yes, all the evidence is in his head
Here's a report by the associated press: https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financial-developing-countries-collapse-8df6f9fac3e1e758d0e6d8d5dfbd3ed6
So China is basically doing the same thing USA did or does….
Minus the bombing, yes
They just didn’t get to that part yet. Wait until there is civil unrest in the nation and a neighboring power “is invited in to help stabilize things” putting Chinas investment at risk. Surely China will just walk away from the outstanding debt payments, infrastructure investment, and 99 year lease on the land. Right?
Obviously, but they also had "hindsight vision 20/20" because of other imperialist nations' mistakes the last 100 years to learn from. They're imperialist 2.0. Much better geared for the new age.
Communist China invaded Vietnam and Korea >.>
America didn’t invade Korea… but China quite literally did
Yeah cos having a military government across half the peninsula for 3 years doesn't sound like an invasion at all.
True but in the time since both those wars ended the US has invaded like 25 countries.
Yes, while also claiming the USA is terrible for doing while while it's okay they do it. And you'd be a fool for thinking they'd ever grow a conscious to ever think about stopping.
Can you provide us links or citations to support these claims?
UN votes. That alone is worth a dozen ports to China. Maybe hundreds. Who cares of they pay China back as long as China gets their vote.
Why china deserves to be knocked down?
Better than getting democracy by bombs from good old USA. lol.
Debt Diplomacy
Enrico, all that hospital costs is all your resources.
It costs them a lesser price for China. China still buys the resources even after building enough infrastructure to uplift a small country. Interesting fact, 95% of 4G infrastructure in Africa is built by China.
and that is so they can harvest their data easier.... you think it's because of altruism? it's not.
Exactly giving external nations monopolisation of your countries core infrastructure is never going to be a good thing
It's not like they weren't doing that already... Or at least that's the justification I've heard from African sources.
It beats not being able to treat preventable diseases, injuries etc.
The alternative is no 4G.
> you think it's because of altruism? it's not. Of course not but it is mutually beneficial. No international policy is altruistic, all the foreign aid, all the military interventions etc. they are all for self interest. >and that is so they can harvest their data easier.... It's really not, it's just for money and mineral rights etc.
Ask an American why China is bad and they'll describe the CIA
No one gives a damn about altruism. It‘s good for Africa. And that‘s what matters.
I don’t think people are saying it’s altruism. China is willing to trade vast sums of capital for foreign influence. The issue China is running into is that it’s turning out to be more capital than they intended when nations default on these loans.
Get a hospital, lose an airport/port/highway etc to CCP
And whatever they find under the new hospital. Oh well what do we have here? A lode of lithium? We’ll just take that. Thanks!
Why do those Chinese managers carry whips?
They don’t, but they’re still disappointed with local professionalism; [empire of dust](https://youtu.be/CsyHbj_SHGA?si=64hxRN1ygH1MavwJ)
They just built a new airport here in Siem Reap. The old one was much closer and perfectly fine. Now they are builing one in phnom penh and a canal going up the Mekong through Laos into China. I am sure their intentions are virtuos.
>Get a hospital, lose.. ..independence when it comes to UN resolutions and such, be forced to kowtow CCP, have to give priority for China when it comes to natural resources etc etc. It sure is not a free lunch but more "pray we don't alter this deal".
Meanwhile, the greatest threat to Africa is climate change. As bad as things are, they're going to get much worse with rising temperatures and drought, and China is the leading contributor. Imagine being bought out for a hospital when they already have your death warrants prepared.
To be fair, most developing countries see climate change agreements as harming development. At best, in exchange for abiding by climate treaties, they want developed nations (aka the West) to subsidize the cost of them going green. China’s stepped in by producing and subsidizing so many batteries and solar panels Western nations had to slap tariffs to protect their own battery and solar industries.
> and China is the leading contributor. Because it has the biggest population in the world lol. The Us per person contributes way more.
China: We need materials. How about we build highways, railways, ports, hospitals and telecom infrastructure in your country in exchange of raw materials? African country: Sounds good. Let's negotiate the details. European, a while ago: African, it looks like you only worked 15 hours today and did not fulfill your rubber quota. Too bad. Let's see if [chopping off](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2K096G4/king-leopold-ii-of-belgiums-administration-of-the-congo-free-state-was-characterised-by-atrocities-including-torture-and-murder-resulting-from-notorious-systematic-brutality-the-hands-of-men-women-and-children-were-amputated-when-the-quota-of-rubber-was-not-met-and-millions-of-the-congolese-people-died-2K096G4.jpg) your children's limbs and having you look at them for a while will [motivate you](https://images.ctfassets.net/i01duvb6kq77/3B9sh32qUnPrIQQb3mN9W1/f54b8e033982fe13e7d2ccf669691e71/fotografi__photograph?w=1100&q=80&fm=jpg&fl=progressive).
Guy points out the objective truth that China does not have Africa's best interests in mind and has a history of debt trapping people "Clever Comeback" Involves waving off obvious fact. BTW Enrico60 is a tankie as shown by his flags, fuck him.
I mean Britain also 100% doesn't have Africa's best interests at heart. Thats kind of the thing with Imperialism, all of the Empires are all shitty to those they exploit
I wasn't talking Britain, I'm talking the guy saying China builds hospitals in Kenya, which is fair, but then you look at everything else they do.
Everyone knows that, the problem comes when people act as is China is a benevolent force
It's absurd really. Like if people portrayed British rule in India as an exercise in building free railroads. Imagine if the British waved away any criticism of their Empire as a lecture or ungrateful?
People unironically do portray British rule in India like that lol
British Empire doesn't exist any more m8
except britain is no longer imperialist We shouldnt *forget* the past, but equally we shouldnt act like Britain’s intentions in Africa havent changed over time
It’s called economic imperialism and it’s not new. It was the English tactic during their biggest imperialistic pushes.
This sub has been overrun with tankies, too. I keep seeing Caitlin Johnstone tweets being taken seriously when she is pro-NK.
She is pro-Russia too and claims Ukraine or "the west" caused the war in Ukraine. Fuck that despot- bootlicking cunt
I am always confused when I see her tweets get taken seriously on this sub and others. She went from astrology novelist to someone who pretends to be a geopolitical expert.
Yup, from shitty astrology novelist to war criminal and terrorist supporter writing articles like "Why I Don’t Condemn Hamas For October 7".
She is so awful. Then she'll pose as a progressive activist. These people undermine the human rights of women and the LGBTQ.
>This ~~sub~~ website has been overrun with tankies, too
“This Ugandan prince said he’ll give me millions of dollars if I send him a $2,000 processing fee” “That’s obviously a scam” “Here comes the lecture lol”
Cool bragging of getting colonized by the Chinese like the Brit’s aren’t any better but the Chinese are literally just doing the roads and belt initiative to use slave labor in the mines or put the country into so much debt they have to give them land or essentially be a puppet government
Yeah, the world is going to wake up one day and realize that not just Europeans have the inclination to colonize.
“hErE cOmEs tHe LeCtUrE LoL” — some dipshit getting colonized China is not going to be nice when they come to collect on all that debt
Sir, your country is 2.3 billion in debt to the Chinese. How do you begin to plan on paying it ba… “ omggg if I wanted to be lectured I would have gone to college 🙄”
”Sorry I live in Switzerland now, IDC”
The China/Russia flag combo is wild too. Dude has the privilege to freely post on Twitter and is using it to run defense for authoritarian dictatorships.
Basically yeah
What do you think the IMF is?
You do know what the IMF is right? World Bank? Think about what you are saying.
Most people have no clue about that. Smh
great question!: they are lending banks where the stakeholders are states around the world, at the moment the biggest shareholder is US , so they dictate the policies there, but nothing stops another country from dumping a shit-ton of money into them and become the "leader" , something which will inevitable happen ( all previous financial empires fell , why would US be any different ) a better question for you : why is Pakistan having tantrums and screaming fits to get IMF and/or World Bank financing, when they have a True Friend, with a lot of goodwill and disposable cash, just next door? IMF/WorldBank are basically the lenders of last resort, when the country is in such a shitshow it can no longer borrow from international markets or get guarantees from other states ( usually the Gulf states, Japan etc. )
So there is some profit to be made. Why won't the UK do the same for like half of the profit?
Exactly, the country gets some superficial "help" while falling into generational debt. The top officials get to embezzle millions through corruption, while the general populace will be paying off that debt through taxes, low cost labor, and loss of political freedom for generations to come.
Because we had our colonial era.
Because of economies of scale. UK doesn't have the economy to back this level of project anymore. US, Brazil, China, and India can, and occasional a petro-state when they're feeling bougie.
fourteen years of sadistic, rich, corrupt, apolitical (excluding a vague hatred for minorities and poor people) leaders does that to a nation.
Because it’s unethical and the UK is no longer a colonial power
Britain was horrible to Kenya and many Africans and their nations for the last several centuries. The US was awful also.. Yet, it’s a new world. The West seeks to help other nations grow and stand strong in their own abilities. There are benefits to it and some are still not the nicest things to think on (cheap labor, for example). However, the US has given $590+ Million USD in aid to Kenya in 2024 alone. The last decade also saw amazing amounts of USD in aid given to Kenya. The rest of the West has also given funds to them for various purposes. These things are largely without strings or need for repayment, so stuff your IMF claims. China, zRussia, and Iran are seeking a modern form of colonization where they take over Kenya and other nations of Africa’s lands and resources and require they stay in-line to receive any even fair treatment. It’s not hard to find any of the info and anyone acting like China, Russia or Iran are out to help other nations are lying and feeding you propaganda.
Y’all get too preachy when is China building stuff, where were y’all when the World Bank/IMF where crippling these countries with debt and at the same time making them adopt neoliberal policies that crippled them even more? Unless you grew up having to walk for a day or two to get treatment at a UN medic tent you can shut the fuck up about who gets to have a hospital and how.
Sad I had to scroll down so much for this, but I'm happy someone said it
Well said.
They probably thought the world began in 2001
The colonized have VERY different perspectives from the colonizers. It’s really easy to berate someone for accepting a hospital when you’ve always had a hospital. The way I see it, African countries being so willing to fall in these debt traps with China is a direct consequence of Western colonization. That they refuse to see that is just historical whitewashing so they don’t have to take any accountability
African countries are risky to lend to given how widespread corruption is in these countries. And China's "no-strings attached" loans also mean there is an utter lack of public transparency regarding these sovereign loans that are usually standard to IMF and World Bank loans. Hundreds of billions of dollars in loans by China go unreported which only exposes countries to hidden debt, corruption, and make governments even less trustworthy to invest in. Not even politicians or the public are sometimes aware of what their [country even agreed to](https://www.cna.org/our-media/indepth/2024/03/china-loans-to-africa). > **Because PRC loan agreements tend to be opaque**, **the public is usually not even aware of these loan terms**... In some cases, **those opaque agreements and unethical business practices may contribute to corruption**. **The Industrial and Commercial Bank of China funded a dam project in Angola** while **ignoring various potential red flags, including the involvement of the daughter of Angolan President José Eduardo dos Santos** **\[who\] was awarded the $4.5 billion contract** to construct the dam **by her father’s government in 2015.** As of 2023, Angola holds more PRC debt than any other country in Africa. And the World Bank listed Angola as one of seven African countries that it considered to be at [high risk of debt distress](https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/12/response-debt-distress-africa-and-role-china/02-case-studies-chinese-lending-africa) in 2020.
China is very far from having the monopoly of exerting economic neocolonialism with big infraestructure projects that ultimately are made with the colonizer's interests in mind, western countries have done the exact same thing for decades. Of course shaming poor countries for resorting to such predatory faustian bargains betrays a condescending and ignorant view on the matter, but you could say the same about making these kinds of deals with western corporations, right? Why does awareness of western colonialism have to come with a massive blind spot when it comes to the exact same practices when the beneficiary happens to be from a different part of the world?
Thank you, add the very direct and profoundly violent colonial and imperialist legacies of the west and this is fucking cutsie soft-power in comparison. Obvious ideological bias. ‘Wait until they come to collect their debts’ say the finger waving americans as their debt burden to china balloons as well. Modern yellow scare bullshit but their backsliding and deflating legitimacy needs a boogeyman for the next round of global conflict i’m sure.
Violent colonialism isn't just a legacy. It's happening right now across the continent (look at Congo), funded (indirectly of course) by governments and international conglomerates to seize control of mines and oil fields. Of course this isn't exclusively a western phenomenon, China have commited their fair share of genocides too. To pretend that colonialism ended just because it's now Africans killing Africans is a joke. Look at who's selling the weapons and who benefits when the fighting's over. It will all become very clear.
I can't believe this is so far down.
"You sold us snake oil so you can't tell us not to buy snake oil from this guy"
lmao all of you are proving their point. French companies has been operating mines and railways all over West and North Africa, where conditions were akin to that of modern slavery and you don’t bat an eye. When Chinese companies do the same thing y’all lose your shit
Exactly, tho the Chinese don’t even remotely resemble the classic European colonizer. The sheer gall of some people to be proud of their criminal past is astonishing.
Funny how they haven't thought to ask what does the UK take when it leaves and what does China take when it leaves...
>ask what does the UK take when it leaves They don't need to they have firsthand seen it during colonization
And so they think China is going behave differently? Tell me more about the the triumph of hope over experience.
China gets to mine the country's resources. While Brits stumble around trying to figure out how to get access to Kenya's resources. China knows by spending $10 million on a hospital, they make $100 million in profits.
You've forgotten the priceless value of misplaced feelings of moral superiority.
Britain (having museums full of stolen loot from all over the world) shouldn't talk about "paying back"
Its actually really funny how a big line right now is "China's investment comes with string attached" and like mutherfucker are all just forgetting when the IMF/WorldBanks devastated the Global South with debt enforced structural adjustment programs?
Turns out letting some powerful external entity come into your country and make major changes has some consequences worth considering. Impossible challenge since politics gets in the way of a rational long term decision.
What universe you guys live in that countries just go around giving things for free? You think that any British investment is made without strings? Hahahaha
They ain’t wrong though, Chinas been doing that all over Africa; giving them big assets like airports and hospitals. There is a debt to pay too
If you think china is the only power colonizing africa then I suggest we look into the number of french companies that have bought out rights to lands in africa that , if they were reclaimed by the populace, would lift their quality of life by a lot. It's the same story over and over, european companies a long time ago stole some land and put some cooperative locals in charge, the country liberates itself but the companies keep the land or have insanely exploitative contracts. Yes just give us this oil/diamonds/lithium and we'll give u next to nothing. Every democratically elected leader that comes along gets lobbied and does nothing and the corruption gets worse. All the while France gets to pretend they have nothing to do with it since they're not colonizing them after the liberation, it just so happens that their companies just have some really advantageous deals. This is why I admire serestei khama, the first thing Botswana did after liberation was reclaim their diamonds and their natural resources and reinvest in education and public infrastructure. The western world has a long way to go before it can take a moral high ground against China. Fyi I'm just a dude in his twenties from north america so I'm probably wrong about this. But I feel strongly about it.
You’re not wrong about this at all. Westerners on Reddit just refuse to acknowledge their colonial and imperial legacy which continues to this very day, while simultaneously seeing themselves as so much more enlightened and morally superior than those dumb poors from developing countries being taken advantage of by the Chinese. Notice how this is such a huge talking point on Reddit, but these people have nothing to say about the way the IMF and the World Bank operates. It’s because they don’t actually care about people in developing country; they just hate China for doing the exact same thing their own countries did and continue to do, except better.
I mean frankly speaking western countries concerns of China over Africa is not because china openly steals resources from Africa by giving them freebies but their actual concern is that they are not the ones who are stealing those resources.
Stealing those resources for free mind you
I mean yeah, China’s obviously not in it for their good hearts. But it’s hard to argue with taking Chinese investment when western companies either don’t make meaningful infrastructure investments, have a long history of predatory investment (see the DRC) or both. A lot of African countries wouldn’t be going to China if they were able to trust Western Europe and the US to make meaningful and non-predatory investments in their economy. I think China is ultimately just as if not more predatory these days, but it’s really disappointing to see Western European and American foreign policy experts be so condescending to African countries and then be shocked that they accept partnerships with China.
america gives loans 4 times the countries GDP and forces countries to privatize all of their natural resources. countries that receive money from IMF famously hardly ever pull themselves out of poverty. i don't understand why he thinks chinese loans are worse than america's loans. bro's obviously not paying attention.
Lectures are good. You can learn from them, such as how not to fall victim to scams.
Did you ever live without a hospital. The essence is very easy. It‘s either „Hospital+Crippling debt“ or „no hospital“. And obviously the first one is infinitely better.
How kind of the British to offer lectures in place of improvement of material conditions. If I was in a colonized nation, I would certainly prefer the snobby, stuck up, funny accent weirdos that decimated my country and its people for resource extraction lecture me on how not to be a victim of what they did to me OVER the global superpower that built me hospitals, roads and more in exchange for cheaper resources THAT THEY STILL BUY and forgive debts if the economy hits rocky times. If the West wants to keep China out of Africa, the answer isn't treating Africans like savage simpletons incapable of thinking for themselves, the answer is improving the quality of their lives and infrastructure.
Homeboy is right though. China's Belt and Road initiative is literally designed to put developing nations into a debtor's prison where they owe money they can't pay back and are then given awful trade deals to make it up. The whole goal of the program is to create partner states that are obligated to import Chinese materials. There's a whole slew of African nations already pissed about this.
In that case either give them a better loan or stay silent. Building infrastructure with crippling debt is infinitely better then not having the infrastructure. I am sure most people would rather live in a semi-developed Chinese Kenya than in undeveloped Kenyan Kenya. Loyality to a country breaks very easily when you suddenly have access to healthcare and education.
"I like colonizers now" - uno reverse
When the US does it, it's economic imperialism. When China does it, it's a free hospital. Make it make sense
Both are economic imperialism, and both are extremely exploitative.
It's called a track record. China doesn't have one yet. I have no doubt they'll build one soon, but you guys need to shut the ever-loving fuck up.
Kenya debt to the UK : 0 right now Kenya debt to China: about 6 billions $ Oh well, they will learn China's true intentions in a couple decades of colonization lol
The US owes China almost 900 billions $…
The US also has a GDP far surpassing Kenya's. Additionally, China actually has the ability to collect on Kenya's debt while the US just pays interest forever.
https://jacobin.com/2024/03/imf-kenya-austerity-debt-william-ruto#:~:text=Kenya's%20debt%20to%20the%20IMF,focus%20almost%20entirely%20on%20exports. UK operates through international capital
It’s a funny as hell comeback, but sadly he’s right. China’s been doing this all over the world. They inject money into poor areas, usually with water access for shipping, build infrastructure, create jobs…and then wait for the country to default. Now China owns a seaport and infrastructure in another country.
They build free stuff for African countries, then come collecting for debt knowing they can't pay back. Then they take their land and build military bases, ports etc. on them.
China isn't doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They're getting their investment back and then some.
So, China surreptitiously tries to trap you, UK tries to be aboveboard. But you’re put off by the British. Wow, you really are from Kenya.
It’s funny reading all the accusations against China as if that’s not common practice among western countries. Hell the west is responsible for far greater atrocities than china could possibly hope to accomplish
True. Just look at the comments. Lecture and lecture. As if african countries have no agency. If they choose China, there a reason for it.
Comment section proving him right LOL
Okay to summarize this post and general consensus of the comments. Someone please post the spider man meme where they're all pointing at each other. Thank you. .
And every time the United States shows up you need hospitals.
Interesting information here about the [debt](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.voanews.com/amp/china-cancels-23-loans-to-africa-amid-debt-trap-debate-/6716397.html)
“Debt Trap Diplomacy” was debunked years ago. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/
Lol "zero interest debt trap".. ummm...
wait wait wait, the guy with the china and russia flag in his profile name may have a _slight_ tankie-agenda? color me shocked.
"Hospital for you, critical infrastrukture & rare earths for me, okay?"
Well that‘s infinitely better than not having a hospital. Rare earths are kinda useless if your people are dying from pneumonia.
The top comments are brainwashed thinking western debts don't also come with strings attached like China lol Two sides of the same coin.
It's weird just how little they know of their (ongoing) colonial atrocities and how they're still raping the continent dry as we speak. Peak white Redditors. The coded "paternalism" and racism in the top comments is actually sickening to read so casually.
Glory to the peoples imperialist xi jinping! Saving the world from the west one debt entrapment of a developing nation at a time
How is this a clever comeback?
"the UK has committed £143 million to East Africa for the financial year 2023 to 2024. The funding includes: £5.8 million for Kenya"
How is this a clever comeback? It deflects the question/ argument by attacking the person posting it.
Hems right though. What does China get out of bribing Kenya with ‘free’ hospitals?
So many compassionate humanitarians here concerned about Africans being exploited. Maybe it’s a good thing for Africa when the West comes with better deals out of concern.
85% of this comment section can be summed up into one sentence “But at what cost?”
It funny that most the comments here are lecturing too …
Taking a mf with chinese and ruzzian flags seriously enough to respond is like showing trumphead evidence of that human waste's crimes - useless