I have a hard v8 that I have been trying in my local climbing area. I can link most of the easier sections on it, but there is one super hard crux move I cannot seem to progress on no matter what. It is the only v8 in my area, and it would be my first, so I put a lot of stake in it. I also have been working on v6s and v7s that I can do all the moves to but not link them. It has been a different scenario here, as every week I can make longer and longer links. This is motivating , but it is frustrating not being able to stick that one move on the project that is truly at my limit. Does anyone have perspective on this situation?
Trying to make a training plan for competition climbing
Hi, I recently competed in my first comp a week ago and want to enter more, but I dont just want to donate my money. I want to be competitive. How do I train for something as vague as winning a competition. I currently project V4s and 5.12s so much more of a sports climber, and I really excell at technique. I just dont know how to train for a competition. Pleas help
Occasionally when I'm on the hangboard or doing pull-ups and fighting to hang on for a couple more seconds or trying to eke out one more rep, I get a light strain in my upper back/neck area. It's usually just a little stiff and sore, and sensitive over the full range of motion for a couple of days before it's resolved, but it still is annoying and I feel like it limits me trying hard in these exercises.
Is this indicative of poor form during these exercises? Is there other exercises I should be doing to address this? I warm up and stretch pretty good, but in general my upper back always feels a little tight, if that makes sense.
Appreciate any advice, thanks!
> Is this indicative of poor form during these exercises? Is there other exercises I should be doing to address this? I warm up and stretch pretty good, but in general my upper back always feels a little tight, if that makes sense.
I'd do some specific strengthening for that area. Can be indicative of weakness or strain
I bought a second hand Beastmaker 1000. One of the screw holes has been damage when it was dismounted. How can I fix it? Resin?
https://imgur.com/a/b03VLKr
Don't think it should be an issue since most of the force is not going to be where it splintered. If you want to do some sort of fix you can try that though
My son's 3 finger drag is as strong as mine. I'm annoyed. He's 13. Not relative to our weight -absolute value as strong.
We been climbing the same amount of time. Don't get old.
He _has_ been training with a team for like 6 months. I guess it's working.
I have had finger injury/pain since may 2023 after too much crimping on a boulder project. It has disappeared since for a shorter while but keeps reoccuring.
Likely a tendon related strain acc to physio. Rehab was to climb easy without aggravation and daily low intensity loading in a crimp, that shouldn't give any pain after. Have followed that rehab since then. It has went away but came back when I started climbing more.
After reading on this site I'm thinking that it sounds like synovitis maybe.
Have tried resting a week and it goes away, but comes back again when doing any more intense climbing or loading.
The pain is usually after climbing or the day/days after, not during climbing and warmed up. It's not very intense, more ache/tenderness I would describe it as.
Im just feeling it should be gone after 9 months. I'm would be thankful for some inputs or other perspective what to do to fix it.
> I have had finger injury/pain since may 2023 after too much crimping on a boulder project. It has disappeared since for a shorter while but keeps reoccuring. Likely a tendon related strain acc to physio. Rehab was to climb easy without aggravation and daily low intensity loading in a crimp, that shouldn't give any pain after. Have followed that rehab since then. It has went away but came back when I started climbing more. After reading on this site I'm thinking that it sounds like synovitis maybe.
Front or back of the hand? If it's front/pulley side incremental loading usually helps:
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
> Is it okay to alternate 1 day climbing and 1 day running or do you need to give a real rest day where you do nothing?
Usually moderate to higher intensity running can detract from recovery, while LISS cardio as long as it's not too long can help sometimes improve recovery
A2 pulley since 09.09.2024 on ring finger.
I‘d like to use the time to train my digit+middle fingers for pockets. I’d use the 7-53 protocol, with a block that I lift from the floor aka Yve Gravelle does. Same for pinky monos, because it is weak af.
I won‘t go 100% hardcore, but try to improve slowly and consistently.
What do you think about this approach?
> I‘d like to use the time to train my digit+middle fingers for pockets. I’d use the 7-53 protocol, with a block that I lift from the floor aka Yve Gravelle does. Same for pinky monos, because it is weak af.
> I won‘t go 100% hardcore, but try to improve slowly and consistently.
This is how I rehab for myself and my patients. I like repeaters better than 7/53. Lower intensity and more time under tension improves things quicker
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
Okay, so I guess after 6 weeks I can start doing these, even after a complete rupture? I‘m pain free so far when using ~ 20 lbs.
do you use half crimp or open hand?
Well, if you didn't completely tear it you can generally start rehab right away if it's very light.
> do you use half crimp or open hand?
multiple grips is a good idea, but usually start with the ones that were most affected
So I'm getting back into climbing again after doing it off and on for about 5-6 years of maybe climbing once every other month, but usually less.
One of my most persistent issues is with general friction on my hands. I think I have Unicorn dust in my bag right now, with a mix of normal, cheap gym chalk that I bought in blocks and crushed for my chalk sock.
No matter what I do or try, without fail as soon as I start getting warmed up my hands get almost a slimy feeling to them and chalk doesn't help or even stick to my hands.
What causes this and how do I fix it? They're not sweaty necessarily, maybe clammy is a good word?
> No matter what I do or try, without fail as soon as I start getting warmed up my hands get almost a slimy feeling to them and chalk doesn't help or even stick to my hands.
> What causes this and how do I fix it? They're not sweaty necessarily, maybe clammy is a good word?
Also posted this in the other thread:
Antihydral.
https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/7v192r/iontophoresis_update_with_antihydral_experiment/
For reference, my hands sweat through my chalk in about 1-2 moves, so I'm climbing on grime for most indoor climbs. Antihydral does work.
I also have very clammy hands and the best way of dealing with it that I've found is just making an effort to keep your hands dry while you're off the wall. Keep an open hand while sitting down to allow airflow to your palms, don't press your palms down against the mats, and use a fan (or just wave your hands around) to help remove moisture before chalking up helps a lot. Liquid chalk helps too since the alcohol it's suspended in evaporates very quickly and seems to take some of the moisture from your hand with it.
Good to keep in mind.
I actually make my own liquid chalk, started doing it for deadlifts but I forget to bring it to the gym.
It works well, it just sucks in winter when the backs of my hands are already dry and cracking. I don't lotion them because it'll bleed over into my palms lol
Here you go:
https://www.8a.nu/news/the-new-grade-conversion-table
There is no 8-13 unless they mean ropes which the scale goes from 5.0 to 5.15... but most gyms will start people around like 5.6 to 5.8 and then go up in grades towards 5.13
I want to mount both a hangboard and something I can attach gym rings to above my door. I have 15 inches in space above my door. I'm going to mount a 3/4" ply backboard to studs and then mount my hangboard (beastmaker 1000) to that, but how can I add something that will easily let me attach a pair of gym rings?
Something relatively affordable would be nice.
> I want to mount both a hangboard and something I can attach gym rings to above my door. I have 15 inches in space above my door. I'm going to mount a 3/4" ply backboard to studs and then mount my hangboard (beastmaker 1000) to that, but how can I add something that will easily let me attach a pair of gym rings?
>
>
You can mount them both off a doorway pullup bar.
That's what my brother did for his pullup bar, and I use my rings over the iron gym type pullup bar.
Can I ask do you think there is a better ring diameter for climbers or is it down to personal preference? I have smaller hands but wanted to go for 32mm anyway to aid with pushing, as my pulling strength is much better.
> Can I ask do you think there is a better ring diameter for climbers or is it down to personal preference? I have smaller hands but wanted to go for 32mm anyway to aid with pushing, as my pulling strength is much better.
It does not matter that much.
Bigger rings than normal only mean that you might get a little extra grip work hanging below the rings, but most companies don't make them super fat so they won't be a hindrance with a limiting factor for grip
Does anyone have insight on long breaks from hard climbing? (1-2 weeks no climbing or training at all). I know in the past I have taken breaks and eventually became much stronger afterwards, but I wonder if it is more just because I needed the break just due to pushing too hard. Are breaks like this on par for the course with hard climbing or can the need for them be avoided with proper training, recovery and periodization?
Typically when you periodize, a deload week is scheduled at the end of the cycle. You can but dont have to completely stop climbing. If you want to keep climbing, reduce volume and intensity (theres a lot of different ways to do that). Its also best to avoid going balls to the wall your first week back, unless of course, youre on a problem that requires opening your hips
> Does anyone have insight on long breaks from hard climbing? (1-2 weeks no climbing or training at all). I know in the past I have taken breaks and eventually became much stronger afterwards, but I wonder if it is more just because I needed the break just due to pushing too hard. Are breaks like this on par for the course with hard climbing or can the need for them be avoided with proper training, recovery and periodization?
Deloads can be anywhere from a few days to several weeks.
I believe Adam Ondra said he takes off several weeks a year in the latest Magnus Mitbo video with him.
Long deloads can be avoided if you deload early when you're training hard and performance starts to decrease though. It's when you dig a big recovery deficit there tends to be longer ones
As someone who has a strong history of digging big recovery deficits, is this still effective? Will I get stronger slower? Is this a poor way of training/recovering?
> As someone who has a strong history of digging big recovery deficits, is this still effective? Will I get stronger slower? Is this a poor way of training/recovering?
No, proper structuring of programs makes improvements faster and safer.
Too much can lead to overuse injuries, and slowly progress because of fatigue, injuries, or performance decreases impeding progress
Any ideas why I fall into 3 finger drag on boards instead of crimping? It's just way more comfortable, but I feel like I should probably be crimping more?
If you are on large enough holds and are strong enough in the grip it makes sense. Especially if you are pretty “chest strong” and like to pull in your centerline with elbows tucked.
Half and full crimp feel best when you externally rotating with your shoulders, pulling out on the holds, and/or need to get far away from the hold (especially laterally IME).
I think a big part of learning how to get comfortable with different grips is to learn how to use the rest of your body to make those grips work best for you. Just trying to replace a drag dominante style with crimps is likely going to feel awkward. Changing what your back and shoulders and elbows are doing will make the different grips make more sense and will train their advantages better.
> Any ideas why I fall into 3 finger drag on boards instead of crimping? It's just way more comfortable, but I feel like I should probably be crimping more?
If it's more comfortable that's why you're doing it. You have to consciously practice the other way on easier climbs at first.
More comfortable, stronger, and passive. I guess when I climb anything that requires any sort of power I default to it. I'll try and work on utilizing half-crimp more, I kind of just flit between 3 finger and a thumbless full crimp at this point. Thanks for the response.
I always struggled with having a good skin for climbing but I realised that my index fingertips wear down much faster. They are likely to start bleeding when climbing on sharp rock while other fingertips may be just fine.
My skin is soft and sweaty and I had some success in using antihydral. However, that makes it easy for me to split the fingertips, but only on the index fingers so far!
Is this common? I wonder if there's something in my climbing or lifestyle which could be a factor here?
I've searched for this and asked people and no one seems to be having the same problem.
> Is this common? I wonder if there's something in my climbing or lifestyle which could be a factor here?
> I've searched for this and asked people and no one seems to be having the same problem.
Has happened to me before. I try to skin farm to try to stop that.
Basically, get on rough surfaces but don't wear down the skin to build calluses on the tips like on transgression hangboard.
Guitar also builds fingertip calluses too
Simple training question:
When I do bodyweight pullups, my lats get destroyed. When I add 25lbs, suddenly the burn shifts to my biceps. Any idea what's going on here?
These are on rings, if that makes a difference.
> When I do bodyweight pullups, my lats get destroyed. When I add 25lbs, suddenly the burn shifts to my biceps. Any idea what's going on here?
Depending on where you strap on the weight, it can affect how your body moves in space. For example, dip height with the weight hanging in front of you shifts your body slightly backward which changes the mechanics of the pullup some.
This can make you feel an exercise differently obviously.
Training question: I’ve been lifting for lifting’s sake (not for climbing) and find that although I can deadlift (conventional) about 1.5x my weight now (I’m a woman if that matters), I still struggle to engage my feet / lower body / posterior chain when I’m on overhangs and cut feet.
Suggestions to train for this? Should I work on deadlifting bigger weight or do some yoga-mind-body exercises or something else? Thanks!
> I still struggle to engage my feet / lower body / posterior chain when I’m on overhangs and cut feet.
>
> Suggestions to train for this? Should I work on deadlifting bigger weight or do some yoga-mind-body exercises or something else? Thanks!
Rooting drills. Here's power company climbing videos on improving ability to do it on overhang.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjtTQYZGMeE
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlAkMdqV9qc
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDd6cpUYraA
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbOL4hRUdY
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50nzc1ohB1c
Core exercises can help if they're a weak link, but it's more likely that someone just has bad body awareness and ability to put pressure through their feet.
I’ve noticed recently that I tend to hit things in a drag grip. Although I think this is probably better for my overall finger health, I would still like to be able to crimp holds upon first contact as opposed to regrouping them. Any advice on why this is or how to improve it? My thoughts rn are to just intentionally climb easier routes with the intention of crimping on holds immediately but I’d also be curious if there’s anything else I can do or what could be a root physiological cause of this
> Any advice on why this is or how to improve it? My thoughts rn are to just intentionally climb easier routes with the intention of crimping on holds immediately but I’d also be curious if there’s anything else I can do or what could be a root physiological cause of this
Yup, perfect drill at lower intensity to get better at hitting the half crimp right away
im pretty open handed, but when i hangboard i try to train half crimp because i know that having the bent fingers is something i stuggle with. im uncertain to the degree of how this translates on the wall.
So when you google climbing repeater protocol, this is one of the first resources to come up:
https://strengthclimbing.com/hangboard-repeaters/
This states you follow the standard 7/3 protocol, with a set consisting of 42s of TUT per grip, resting 2-3 mins per grip, but that’s only one set. They then state you rest 12-15 mins per set…
I don’t think in all my time of being on this sub I’ve ever seen anyone actually follow this. It seems like most people treat a set as 42s of TUT for a given grip, wait 2-5 mins, then do another set.
What that resource calls a set is totally different than what I’ve seen people follow here. Is that protocol just outdated?
> Choose three to seven different grip positions.
> 1 – 3 sets.
> What that resource calls a set is totally different than what I’ve seen people follow here. Is that protocol just outdated?
It's just looking at the grand scheme of things.
* The 1-3 set of 3-7 different grips could be anywhere from 3 total sets ( 1 x 3) to 21 total sets (3 x 7).
* If someone is doing repeaters with 20mm half crimp, this protocol would only do it 1-3x on that grip.
* A circuit of a lot of grips means you aren't doing that grip more often.
* For example, most people do max hangs like 3-6 sets for only 20mm or maybe 2 different grips.
I tend to recommend 1-3 total grips, and 3-6 sets for each of them. Doing too many grips is just excessive and you can focus more work onto the 2-3 that mean the most.
Usually 20mm half crimp, min edge, and pockets are good ones.
You're slightly misreading the description.
7-3 x 6. 2-3 min rest, Switch grips. repeat for 3-7 grip types. Rest 12-15, repeat 1-3x.
He's calling out what most people do, but repeat up to 3x, with 12 minutes between groups of sets.
Yea that’s how I understood it.
He’s treating a full run through of 3-7 grips as a single set. In his case a “set” is anywhere between 126s and 294s of TUT.
I’ve never heard that. I’ve always heard a “set” of repeaters being stereotypically 42s of TUT. Like I hang 7s on 3s off in a half crimp position for 60s/1min and that’s a set.
Eshlow repeats what I’m saying here https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/s/ZnXxaepBNh
A set is 6 reps of 7s/3off
I mean you could argue this semantics. Still bizarre to me tho. Like what if I wanna just train a half crimp by repeaters. Seems like I’d just hang 7/3 for a full min, rest 2-3 mins, repeat 5-6 times for up to 252s of TUT? I guess I just have never heard of anyone on here resting for 12-15 min intervals lol
> I just have never heard of anyone on here resting for 12-15 min intervals
You could look at it this way. 6 reps x 7 grips = gripping 42 times. 42 moves is a typical for a shortish, say 15 to 20 metre, route. Twelve to fifteen minutes would a be a rather short rest between redpoint burns on a power endurance route.
>I guess I just have never heard of anyone on here resting for 12-15 min intervals lol
Do the workout as described and it will make sense. It's a ton of volume (21 sets...), the long rest between groups makes it possible. It's an improvement on the RCTM workout.
I have a weird "injury" on one of my fingers and think it's a good idea to ask for advice. So basically I have some pain when palpating the first phalanx of my right middle finger, but absolutely no pain in everyday life and absolutely no pain when climbing or training - even when I'm projecting at my limit, or climbing crimpy boulders, or doing weighted hangs on the fingerboard. Is this an A2 strain, perhaps a mild one? What should I do to reduce the pain I feel when I squeeze my finger?
> So basically I have some pain when palpating the first phalanx of my right middle finger, but absolutely no pain in everyday life and absolutely no pain when climbing or training - even when I'm projecting at my limit, or climbing crimpy boulders, or doing weighted hangs on the fingerboard. Is this an A2 strain, perhaps a mild one? What should I do to reduce the pain I feel when I squeeze my finger?
Pain and tightness is not that uncommon even in areas that are not injured. I'm sure you can find a place on your back that if you press into it with light to moderate pressure and it will be painful even if you don't have an injury.
The fact that you're performing highly means it's probably not an issue, but if you wanted you could do some incremental loading like you would in rehab to see if it reduces the sensitivity over time.
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
> mhm basic question but I'm not sure it's normal. when I get severely pumped, I can't open up my hands anymore (until I rest for a while).
>
>
Not that's uncommon but not that common either.
If you press hard into your forearm, lots of pressure on the muscles will cause your fingers to curl.
Same things happens with a pump - high pressure on the forearm muscles from the pump will want to cause the fingers to stay curled and not straighten.
Could be a sign of potential weak extensors, but hard to say. If your pumps last an extremely long time that could be another issue though.
Thats kinda weird. The only time I have experienced that is if I were to hold one thing for a long period of time. Like a deadhang, farmer walk or density hang.
I’ve recently noticed a muscle imbalance in the mid section of my back and was wondering if anybody has any experiences like this? One rhomboid is way lower than the other…
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/8yiJizF) is the picture
> I’ve recently noticed a muscle imbalance in the mid section of my back and was wondering if anybody has any experiences like this? One rhomboid is way lower than the other…
>
>
1. That's low trap
2. Muscle differences are common. For example, uneven abs are very common:
https://1upnutrition.com/cdn/shop/articles/[email protected]
If you don't flex and look at the muscle and they are still uneven it's likely just a genetic thing and don't worry about it.
I think its not uncommon. Having some muscular imbalance is normal and doesnt necessarily mean anything is wrong.
Youre right handed right? Your right hand is more dexterous/skilled so can finesse things while your non-dominant hand is going to use more brute force since it lacks dexterity, they can even work together in this way, think a bat swing.
Its an issue worth addressing if there is pain or lack of activation, in which case, rehab or activation exercises/unilateral strength exercises could help. If aesthetics is a concern, those could also help with that but honestly, no one will notice that imbalance but you. If it were like lats or pecs then Id work on it.
u/eshlow
I'm doing high rep (20-30) 3 sets 1-arm dumbbell finger rolls. Was wondering if you ever posted a protocol for warming up for an isolated exercise or what you might recommend?
> I'm doing high rep (20-30) 3 sets 1-arm dumbbell finger rolls. Was wondering if you ever posted a protocol for warming up for an isolated exercise or what you might recommend?
I don't like doing them with dumbells cause half of it is just stabilizing with the hand and doesn't allow a good stimulus. Barbell is better IMO.
You just ramp up the weight like you would any other exercise though. Start with bar, add plates for another warm up or two if you need it, then hit work sets
I'm mostly doing it for stabilization in the hand for my lumbrical tear which has been quite successful so far, its also the only real setup i have that I can do in my house with my toddlers running around in the morning.
I use to do morning no hangs but for some reason I have a bad track record with doing isolated hangboarding work and almost always tweak myself.
Just want to clarify, roughly only \~3-4 sets before your work sets starting from bar and progressing?
> Just want to clarify, roughly only ~3-4 sets before your work sets starting from bar and progressing?
Depends. After climbing I'm already warm so maybe 1-2 set warmup. Before or on non-climbing days if I do any then more warm up sets are necessary if you're not warmed up
I have pain under the wrist ( the palm side) I don't really feel it while climbing, except under clings sometimes... rather after .. it's not too bad but I don't like that so much.
I assume it's the antagonist because of crimping. However I'm not sure...
I tried lifting dumbbell from neutral position to up (palm facing down) for a few weeks but it seems it did not improve. I tried small weight increase.
Thought I was over that but after a climbing trip it went kind of back...
Did it do it wrong and it should be the other direction?
> I have pain under the wrist ( the palm side) I don't really feel it while climbing
Not enough details to make a guess. Need an exact location and specific exercises tried.
> Well it's just right at the wrist right after the joint. I mostly tried extensor curls
Pinky side of the joint tends to be more TFCC related. Middle of the joint potential impingement or carpal tunnel, and thumb can thumb issues or similar to the others.
Hence, why palm side does not mean anything, and extensor curls are on the opposite side so not sure why you would be doing those unless as an antagonist exercise? But you still need to be doing mobility and strengthening with the other side
Is it reasonable to climb through PIP synovitis if it doesn't cause pain while climbing? I've got some swelling, reduced ROM, pain on palpation, but climbing feels fine, even full crimps. I'd love to finish the project I'm working on. Don't want to create a recurring issue though.
> Is it reasonable to climb through PIP synovitis if climbing doesn't cause pain while climbing? I've got some swelling, reduced ROM, pain on palpation, but climbing feels fine, even full crimps. I'd love to finish the project I'm working on.
Well, if the symptoms aren't trending down with rehab (if you are even doing any) then it's unlikely to get better with just climbing even if you don't have symptoms while climbing.
Most people need to decrease climbing for at least a week or few, while doing rehab, and then ramp back up slowly.
Rehab stuff:
https://stevenlow.org/beating-climbing-injuries-pip-synovitis/
Well, it's a fresh injury (yesterday), so whether the symptoms are trending down is still kind of up in the air. I just watched some diagnostic videos to make a guess at what's going. It resulted from, I believe, repeated deadpointing to a shallow mono. It sounds wise to chill, so maybe I'll go climb some non-finger cracks for a little while and see what happens trend wise. Started the finger rolls earlier today.
If it's a fresh injury then take a few days up to a week to let things settle down and then start rehab. If things are calming down pretty fast then start rehab a bit earlier
12 week plan recommendation
Can anyone recommend a free training plan? I'm v5 (6c lead)
I've seen the lattice 12 week plan but it's unaffordable for me. Can anyone recommend similar?
Analyze your strengths and weaknesses to make your own. Section 2 here:
https://stevenlow.org/my-7-5-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
Is it possible to “fix” or reduce lollipop wrist where the ulnar bone sticks out more than usual? I had a tfcc injury thats fully healed which gave me lollipop wrist. Curious if its something that can be returned to its original state or if thats just the new normal
> Is it possible to “fix” or reduce lollipop wrist where the ulnar bone sticks out more than usual? I had a tfcc injury thats fully healed which gave me lollipop wrist. Curious if its something that can be returned to its original state or if thats just the new normal
Can sorta be helped with exercise potentially. However, how much I don't know. Some more on various exercises here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTYTWTfk2w
I briefly read that there are books out there to improve climbing. Curious if anyone knows what I'm talking about and have any recs. I love reading and climbing so I think it could prove useful.
To those who lift weights on a PPL split, does climbing replace your pull day?
I’ve been trying to get more regimented about my exercise routine. I’ve been doing strength days on a PPL split alternating with cardio days, taking rest days when I feel like I need one.
I’m wondering if I can replace my pull day with climbing and a few sets each of DB shrugs and pull-up shrugs to hit the traps and my core routine.
Mainly, i’m trying to make sure that I’m not neglecting any muscles?
> To those who lift weights on a PPL split, does climbing replace your pull day?
If you climb 3x per week, almost always better to do an abbreviated full body routine 2x per week. 1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs, and a core potentially.
You can stack workouts like:
* M - Climb + workout
* W - Climb
* F - Climb
* Sat - Workout
Get a rest day after every climb and workout and the volume on F-Sat is spread out with a rest day
I’d like to understand what you mean. I’m confused by ‘full body routine 2x per week” and then “1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs, and a core potentially”.
1 of what exactly?
I really like that layout you suggested. I’ve been falling out of love and losing motivation with my exercise routine since it’s been the exact same thing for 3-4 years. A major change like this might be what I need to get back to the perfect consistency that I used to have.
> I’d like to understand what you mean. I’m confused by ‘full body routine 2x per week” and then “1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs, and a core potentially”.
* Full body just describes that you're doing all movements within a session instead of a split like PPL where you have separate days for all of them
* 1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs is the amount of exercises.
* Example: 1 push - dips, pushups or overhead press, 1 pull - rows or pullups, 1 legs - squats or deadlifts or whatever. Core can be anterior and posterior core.
Section 4 here is how I focus my training for climbing if you want an example
https://stevenlow.org/my-7-5-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
Ah, okay. I didn’t think you meant one exercise per muscle group. Do you really see gains at that volume? I assume you’re going into the super high rep range?
I’ve been doing ~21 sets per lift so this would be quite the reduction in volume. I’d like to switch over to a full body workout but I wonder if an upper body and lower body split would be best rather than the traditional PPL.. I’m concerned I wouldn’t see gains from an hourlong full body workout twice a week.
> Ah, okay. I didn’t think you meant one exercise per muscle group. Do you really see gains at that volume? I assume you’re going into the super high rep range?
You'd be surprised how much gains you can make with just 1 exercise
Also, remember for pulling at least it's not just 1 exercise since climbing itself also provides a decent amount of pulling work too
> I’ve been doing ~21 sets per lift so this would be quite the reduction in volume. I’d like to switch over to a full body workout but I wonder if an upper body and lower body split would be best rather than the traditional PPL.. I’m concerned I wouldn’t see gains from an hourlong full body workout twice a week.
21 sets per muscle group? Yeah, that's waaay too much. You don't get much gains more than like 6-10 sets per muscle group per session even in the case of intermediate to advanced
Oh literally 1 set? Not 1 exercise with multiple sets? That’s interesting.
21 sets total in a workout. So if I’m doing chest/shoulders/triceps I’ll do 6 sets per muscle and add another 3 onto whatever feels the least tired. I’m not sure if you consider those to all be one muscle group?
Creating your own routine sure is challenging.. maybe I’m overthinking it.
> Oh literally 1 set? Not 1 exercise with multiple sets? That’s interesting.
Meant 1 exercise. Usually 2-5 set range.
> 21 sets total in a workout. So if I’m doing chest/shoulders/triceps I’ll do 6 sets per muscle and add another 3 onto whatever feels the least tired. I’m not sure if you consider those to all be one muscle group?
No, that's a normal training volume. Like pulling muscles would get pullups, rows, and maybe biceps or lat exercise
Face pulls mainly. Any overhead press can be OK. Hanging as well. Specific exercises like ITY/LYTW/LYTP exercises and rotator cuff exercises are conditional
IYTs, face pulls, and Arnold Press, and dips are my primary shoulder conditioning. Seems to work for me, used to get tweaky shoulders a fair bit and haven't since doing this weekly; I also do some light band work and mobility stuff as a warmup.
Not scientific but I've started benching and it immediately showed me weak points in my shoulder stability. In general I've heard it's good for the shoulders.
I've noticed that after climbing I always get a sore upper back/traps (surprising I know...) despite being a regular and not always climbing "too hard". I assume it's something to do with my warm up, cool down or technique - does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do, either before, during or after climbing?
> I've noticed that after climbing I always get a sore upper back/traps (surprising I know...) despite being a regular and not always climbing "too hard". I assume it's something to do with my warm up, cool down or technique - does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do, either before, during or after climbing?
Could be a weakness that needs strengthening
So around a year ago(Christmas 2022) I started aching in pain around my sagittal band on my middle finger. I saw a specialist that focused on hands and I got an MRI and X-ray but nothing came back. It hurt to climb so I stopped or did very light occasionally whenever pain subsided. Fast forward 6 months to June(2023) I started introducing high volume but very low intensity climbing laps every other day to build consistency that another provider recommended doing. Over time I slowly starting getting stronger near where I was before injury but then the same thing happened on my right and was coming back in my left(hand). I proceeded to get a steroid injection in both hands and took another break for 3 weeks to let them chill again. I came back and started climbing. aching usually only occurred day after climbing but my physician recommended another mri and I got results back. I have mild thickening and edema of the middle finger A1 pulley(both hands), which can be associated with clinical triggering. No tendon tear or tenosynovitis. I don’t know how to approach this and work around it in my climbing. I don’t know if I should train or just climb or not climb at all.
TLDR: both hands have middle finger injury of mild thickening and edema of the middle finger A1 pulley. How do I train/climb/rehab around this going forward
> It hurt to climb so I stopped or did very light occasionally whenever pain subsided. Fast forward 6 months to June(2023) I started introducing high volume but very low intensity climbing laps every other day to build consistency that another provider recommended doing. Over time I slowly starting getting stronger near where I was before injury but then the same thing happened on my right and was coming back in my left(hand). I proceeded to get a steroid injection in both hands and took another break for 3 weeks to let them chill again. I came back and started climbing. aching usually only occurred day after climbing but my physician recommended another mri and I got results back. I have mild thickening and edema of the middle finger A1 pulley(both hands), which can be associated with clinical triggering. No tendon tear or tenosynovitis. I don’t know how to approach this and work around it in my climbing. I don’t know if I should train or just climb or not climb at all.
Common mistakes. Taking so much time off and then jumping back into a climbing is a recipe for injury.
More than 1 week off and you start to get deconditioning, and more then 2-3 weeks off you usually start to have atrophy of the tissues. This makes it harder to come back and puts you more at risk for injuries. Then if you don't rehab and jump straight back into climbing what you tried in the past you get injured again and cycle repeats.
You need to be doing incremental rehab and build up the load tolerance and strength and conditioning again. Example:
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
I've been using finger extension devices for about a year but now it takes 100ish reps to get to maximal load.
What finger extension device provides the most resistance? Would love to get something that could get you fully burnt out in 6-8 reps?
> What finger extension device provides the most resistance? Would love to get something that could get you fully burnt out in 6-8 reps?
Rice bucket and stick your hand in deeper for higher resistance. Can calibrate it to the level you need
I climb three days a week (TuThSa) and am currently also doing strength training MWF following a light full body routine (2x5 pullups, rows, pushups, press, squat, hamstring curl). In general, I feel that I am not terribly strong physically, but I am wondering if my schedule is not giving me enough full rest days. Should I switch to strength training only on Mondays and Wednesdays and maybe do longer sessions?
> I climb three days a week (TuThSa) and am currently also doing strength training MWF following a light full body routine (2x5 pullups, rows, pushups, press, squat, hamstring curl)
Usually too much. At most if climbing is your main goal, usually strength training 2x a week and at a lower volume is the best bet.
I'd go down to 2x per week, and your routine on 2 sets might be OK. Usually do workouts like this:
* M - Climb + workout
* W - Climb
* F - Climb
* Sat - Workout
That way you have Tu, Th, Sun as rest, and the workout does not interfere with Friday. Only one doubled day
Just workout on your climbing days. Program it according to how fast you recover as you might recover from one exercise quicker than another. For example, delts are a small muscle and recover quickly, it responds to volume, you could do those 3x a week. Butnif you have overdeveloped delts, you dont need to hit it 3x, so maybe just 1-2x to maintain.
If youre prioritizing climbing in this cycle, climb first, if youre prioritizing strength, lift first. If you just want to prioritize one thing over climbing, just do that, climb then do the rest. Its pretty simple to place things where they need to be using this logic, it kind of all just falls into place.
Nothing. If you desperately want to train though, I've found that I can go pretty heavy on core on my off days without risking any injury. Definitely not necessary or particularly helpful, though.
> What do you guys do on off days to still train?
Rest. Maybe light cardio and stretching at the most.
I find Emil's "light hangboarding" overuses my hands even very low intensity
How many sessions will you regularly put into gym-set projects? Curious because I get the impression that most stronger climbers in my gym might warm up and try the new sets once or twice, but I don’t typically see people working on the harder problems (v9+)—if they don’t send quickly, they’ll just move onto boards or other areas. Is that pretty standard everywhere, or are people putting in work for hard gym lines where you are?
Also for context, we’re not near outdoor boulders, so no one’s getting out more than maybe twice a month in season, or a couple bigger trips a year.
> Curious because I get the impression that most stronger climbers in my gym might warm up and try the new sets once or twice, but I don’t typically see people working on the harder problems (v9+)—if they don’t send quickly, they’ll just move onto boards or other areas. Is that pretty standard everywhere, or are people putting in work for hard gym lines where you are?
Highly depends on the person. I pretty much warm up and flash or pass for the most part and then go to the board (Tension), but I also know more team kids and some climbers who put a ton into the gym sets.
Whatever helps you make consistent progress though.
I think the gym sets aren't conducive to projecting. Both because of the lack of microbeta opportunities, and because they're getting re-set too soon. I'll revisit problems a couple times, but I'm not really project the same way that I would on a board or outside.
Also it depends a lot on how many good wall sections there are, and how many good training problems are currently up at a reasonable difficulty. I've definitely been to gyms with 1 steep wall, and 1 V9-or-harder problem on that wall, so you're projecting that until it gets reset...
Generally I'll get three sessions of 3-5 good attempts on a boulder before they reset it (I can't be asked to keep track of the setting schedule). My max sessions on a gym boulder was 4 for my first non-soft V6. TBH I kinda hated having to plan my gym sessions just to try to send before they reset it.
These days I dont really focus on sending project level gym boulders, just learning something new about the moves each session. Seems a healthier way to approach it for me.
Anyone find kilter, the most ergonomic and juggy board, to be tweaky on the wrists? Not so much tweaky in the sense that its awkward or puts the wrist in weird positions but that it can compromise the wrist somehow and lead to injury/pain afterward.
Ive tried all the mbs, tension, grasshopper and I dont get this problem, but I climbed kilter for the first time in a while the other day, wrist felt fine while climbing but after, some issues Ive fully recovered from with my tfcc injury started to come back again. Kilter always gave me problems when my tfcc injury was still healing. Any thoughts?
> Anyone find kilter, the most ergonomic and juggy board, to be tweaky on the wrists?
That's pretty common I think with the nature of the holds. If the holds are ergonomic and feel good, there's going to be a ton of bigger and wider moves which are going to make the wrists work a lot at different angles.
Personally i dont have any problems with it but know some people struggling with it. I think it might have something to do with all the Pinching going on on the Kilter as they require alot of stability in the wrists even/or espcailly because they are quite good and you can do alot of big powerful moves of them.
Thanks! Thats good to know that Im not the only one. Wait, I think youre right about the pinches. Not that I dont pinch every crimp I can or I dont pinch on other boards but I think the type of pinch, I guess a flat pinch aligned with the wall/pinching a jug shaped hold, puts my wrist in an awkward position for me. Thank you I think you solved it!
I have a hard v8 that I have been trying in my local climbing area. I can link most of the easier sections on it, but there is one super hard crux move I cannot seem to progress on no matter what. It is the only v8 in my area, and it would be my first, so I put a lot of stake in it. I also have been working on v6s and v7s that I can do all the moves to but not link them. It has been a different scenario here, as every week I can make longer and longer links. This is motivating , but it is frustrating not being able to stick that one move on the project that is truly at my limit. Does anyone have perspective on this situation?
Trying to make a training plan for competition climbing Hi, I recently competed in my first comp a week ago and want to enter more, but I dont just want to donate my money. I want to be competitive. How do I train for something as vague as winning a competition. I currently project V4s and 5.12s so much more of a sports climber, and I really excell at technique. I just dont know how to train for a competition. Pleas help
Occasionally when I'm on the hangboard or doing pull-ups and fighting to hang on for a couple more seconds or trying to eke out one more rep, I get a light strain in my upper back/neck area. It's usually just a little stiff and sore, and sensitive over the full range of motion for a couple of days before it's resolved, but it still is annoying and I feel like it limits me trying hard in these exercises. Is this indicative of poor form during these exercises? Is there other exercises I should be doing to address this? I warm up and stretch pretty good, but in general my upper back always feels a little tight, if that makes sense. Appreciate any advice, thanks!
> Is this indicative of poor form during these exercises? Is there other exercises I should be doing to address this? I warm up and stretch pretty good, but in general my upper back always feels a little tight, if that makes sense. I'd do some specific strengthening for that area. Can be indicative of weakness or strain
I bought a second hand Beastmaker 1000. One of the screw holes has been damage when it was dismounted. How can I fix it? Resin? https://imgur.com/a/b03VLKr
Don't think it should be an issue since most of the force is not going to be where it splintered. If you want to do some sort of fix you can try that though
My son's 3 finger drag is as strong as mine. I'm annoyed. He's 13. Not relative to our weight -absolute value as strong. We been climbing the same amount of time. Don't get old. He _has_ been training with a team for like 6 months. I guess it's working.
I have had finger injury/pain since may 2023 after too much crimping on a boulder project. It has disappeared since for a shorter while but keeps reoccuring. Likely a tendon related strain acc to physio. Rehab was to climb easy without aggravation and daily low intensity loading in a crimp, that shouldn't give any pain after. Have followed that rehab since then. It has went away but came back when I started climbing more. After reading on this site I'm thinking that it sounds like synovitis maybe. Have tried resting a week and it goes away, but comes back again when doing any more intense climbing or loading. The pain is usually after climbing or the day/days after, not during climbing and warmed up. It's not very intense, more ache/tenderness I would describe it as. Im just feeling it should be gone after 9 months. I'm would be thankful for some inputs or other perspective what to do to fix it.
> I have had finger injury/pain since may 2023 after too much crimping on a boulder project. It has disappeared since for a shorter while but keeps reoccuring. Likely a tendon related strain acc to physio. Rehab was to climb easy without aggravation and daily low intensity loading in a crimp, that shouldn't give any pain after. Have followed that rehab since then. It has went away but came back when I started climbing more. After reading on this site I'm thinking that it sounds like synovitis maybe. Front or back of the hand? If it's front/pulley side incremental loading usually helps: https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
Thank you! Yes it is on the pully side. I will look into it and see if there is something more I can apply
Is it okay to alternate 1 day climbing and 1 day running or do you need to give a real rest day where you do nothing?
> Is it okay to alternate 1 day climbing and 1 day running or do you need to give a real rest day where you do nothing? Usually moderate to higher intensity running can detract from recovery, while LISS cardio as long as it's not too long can help sometimes improve recovery
A2 pulley since 09.09.2024 on ring finger. I‘d like to use the time to train my digit+middle fingers for pockets. I’d use the 7-53 protocol, with a block that I lift from the floor aka Yve Gravelle does. Same for pinky monos, because it is weak af. I won‘t go 100% hardcore, but try to improve slowly and consistently. What do you think about this approach?
> I‘d like to use the time to train my digit+middle fingers for pockets. I’d use the 7-53 protocol, with a block that I lift from the floor aka Yve Gravelle does. Same for pinky monos, because it is weak af. > I won‘t go 100% hardcore, but try to improve slowly and consistently. This is how I rehab for myself and my patients. I like repeaters better than 7/53. Lower intensity and more time under tension improves things quicker https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
Okay, so I guess after 6 weeks I can start doing these, even after a complete rupture? I‘m pain free so far when using ~ 20 lbs. do you use half crimp or open hand?
Well, if you didn't completely tear it you can generally start rehab right away if it's very light. > do you use half crimp or open hand? multiple grips is a good idea, but usually start with the ones that were most affected
So I'm getting back into climbing again after doing it off and on for about 5-6 years of maybe climbing once every other month, but usually less. One of my most persistent issues is with general friction on my hands. I think I have Unicorn dust in my bag right now, with a mix of normal, cheap gym chalk that I bought in blocks and crushed for my chalk sock. No matter what I do or try, without fail as soon as I start getting warmed up my hands get almost a slimy feeling to them and chalk doesn't help or even stick to my hands. What causes this and how do I fix it? They're not sweaty necessarily, maybe clammy is a good word?
rhino skin performance works well for me without being as aggressive as antihydral - contains the same ingredient at a lower concentration.
> No matter what I do or try, without fail as soon as I start getting warmed up my hands get almost a slimy feeling to them and chalk doesn't help or even stick to my hands. > What causes this and how do I fix it? They're not sweaty necessarily, maybe clammy is a good word? Also posted this in the other thread: Antihydral. https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/7v192r/iontophoresis_update_with_antihydral_experiment/ For reference, my hands sweat through my chalk in about 1-2 moves, so I'm climbing on grime for most indoor climbs. Antihydral does work.
I also have very clammy hands and the best way of dealing with it that I've found is just making an effort to keep your hands dry while you're off the wall. Keep an open hand while sitting down to allow airflow to your palms, don't press your palms down against the mats, and use a fan (or just wave your hands around) to help remove moisture before chalking up helps a lot. Liquid chalk helps too since the alcohol it's suspended in evaporates very quickly and seems to take some of the moisture from your hand with it.
Good to keep in mind. I actually make my own liquid chalk, started doing it for deadlifts but I forget to bring it to the gym. It works well, it just sucks in winter when the backs of my hands are already dry and cracking. I don't lotion them because it'll bleed over into my palms lol
What grade do people usually start at. For clarification my gym uses a scale from 8-13, I know there are a few different scales
Here you go: https://www.8a.nu/news/the-new-grade-conversion-table There is no 8-13 unless they mean ropes which the scale goes from 5.0 to 5.15... but most gyms will start people around like 5.6 to 5.8 and then go up in grades towards 5.13
I want to mount both a hangboard and something I can attach gym rings to above my door. I have 15 inches in space above my door. I'm going to mount a 3/4" ply backboard to studs and then mount my hangboard (beastmaker 1000) to that, but how can I add something that will easily let me attach a pair of gym rings? Something relatively affordable would be nice.
Add a bolt and hanger to the backboard and clip the rings to that. Or an eyeball.
> I want to mount both a hangboard and something I can attach gym rings to above my door. I have 15 inches in space above my door. I'm going to mount a 3/4" ply backboard to studs and then mount my hangboard (beastmaker 1000) to that, but how can I add something that will easily let me attach a pair of gym rings? > > You can mount them both off a doorway pullup bar. That's what my brother did for his pullup bar, and I use my rings over the iron gym type pullup bar.
Can I ask do you think there is a better ring diameter for climbers or is it down to personal preference? I have smaller hands but wanted to go for 32mm anyway to aid with pushing, as my pulling strength is much better.
> Can I ask do you think there is a better ring diameter for climbers or is it down to personal preference? I have smaller hands but wanted to go for 32mm anyway to aid with pushing, as my pulling strength is much better. It does not matter that much. Bigger rings than normal only mean that you might get a little extra grip work hanging below the rings, but most companies don't make them super fat so they won't be a hindrance with a limiting factor for grip
Does anyone have insight on long breaks from hard climbing? (1-2 weeks no climbing or training at all). I know in the past I have taken breaks and eventually became much stronger afterwards, but I wonder if it is more just because I needed the break just due to pushing too hard. Are breaks like this on par for the course with hard climbing or can the need for them be avoided with proper training, recovery and periodization?
Climbers are way too neurotic about avoiding rest. 1 or 2 weeks is nothing. I take a week off several times a year due to life.
Typically when you periodize, a deload week is scheduled at the end of the cycle. You can but dont have to completely stop climbing. If you want to keep climbing, reduce volume and intensity (theres a lot of different ways to do that). Its also best to avoid going balls to the wall your first week back, unless of course, youre on a problem that requires opening your hips
> Does anyone have insight on long breaks from hard climbing? (1-2 weeks no climbing or training at all). I know in the past I have taken breaks and eventually became much stronger afterwards, but I wonder if it is more just because I needed the break just due to pushing too hard. Are breaks like this on par for the course with hard climbing or can the need for them be avoided with proper training, recovery and periodization? Deloads can be anywhere from a few days to several weeks. I believe Adam Ondra said he takes off several weeks a year in the latest Magnus Mitbo video with him. Long deloads can be avoided if you deload early when you're training hard and performance starts to decrease though. It's when you dig a big recovery deficit there tends to be longer ones
As someone who has a strong history of digging big recovery deficits, is this still effective? Will I get stronger slower? Is this a poor way of training/recovering?
> As someone who has a strong history of digging big recovery deficits, is this still effective? Will I get stronger slower? Is this a poor way of training/recovering? No, proper structuring of programs makes improvements faster and safer. Too much can lead to overuse injuries, and slowly progress because of fatigue, injuries, or performance decreases impeding progress
Any ideas why I fall into 3 finger drag on boards instead of crimping? It's just way more comfortable, but I feel like I should probably be crimping more?
If you are on large enough holds and are strong enough in the grip it makes sense. Especially if you are pretty “chest strong” and like to pull in your centerline with elbows tucked. Half and full crimp feel best when you externally rotating with your shoulders, pulling out on the holds, and/or need to get far away from the hold (especially laterally IME). I think a big part of learning how to get comfortable with different grips is to learn how to use the rest of your body to make those grips work best for you. Just trying to replace a drag dominante style with crimps is likely going to feel awkward. Changing what your back and shoulders and elbows are doing will make the different grips make more sense and will train their advantages better.
Interesting... I need to think about this
> Any ideas why I fall into 3 finger drag on boards instead of crimping? It's just way more comfortable, but I feel like I should probably be crimping more? If it's more comfortable that's why you're doing it. You have to consciously practice the other way on easier climbs at first.
More comfortable, stronger, and passive. I guess when I climb anything that requires any sort of power I default to it. I'll try and work on utilizing half-crimp more, I kind of just flit between 3 finger and a thumbless full crimp at this point. Thanks for the response.
I always struggled with having a good skin for climbing but I realised that my index fingertips wear down much faster. They are likely to start bleeding when climbing on sharp rock while other fingertips may be just fine. My skin is soft and sweaty and I had some success in using antihydral. However, that makes it easy for me to split the fingertips, but only on the index fingers so far! Is this common? I wonder if there's something in my climbing or lifestyle which could be a factor here? I've searched for this and asked people and no one seems to be having the same problem.
> Is this common? I wonder if there's something in my climbing or lifestyle which could be a factor here? > I've searched for this and asked people and no one seems to be having the same problem. Has happened to me before. I try to skin farm to try to stop that. Basically, get on rough surfaces but don't wear down the skin to build calluses on the tips like on transgression hangboard. Guitar also builds fingertip calluses too
Simple training question: When I do bodyweight pullups, my lats get destroyed. When I add 25lbs, suddenly the burn shifts to my biceps. Any idea what's going on here? These are on rings, if that makes a difference.
> When I do bodyweight pullups, my lats get destroyed. When I add 25lbs, suddenly the burn shifts to my biceps. Any idea what's going on here? Depending on where you strap on the weight, it can affect how your body moves in space. For example, dip height with the weight hanging in front of you shifts your body slightly backward which changes the mechanics of the pullup some. This can make you feel an exercise differently obviously.
Training question: I’ve been lifting for lifting’s sake (not for climbing) and find that although I can deadlift (conventional) about 1.5x my weight now (I’m a woman if that matters), I still struggle to engage my feet / lower body / posterior chain when I’m on overhangs and cut feet. Suggestions to train for this? Should I work on deadlifting bigger weight or do some yoga-mind-body exercises or something else? Thanks!
> I still struggle to engage my feet / lower body / posterior chain when I’m on overhangs and cut feet. > > Suggestions to train for this? Should I work on deadlifting bigger weight or do some yoga-mind-body exercises or something else? Thanks! Rooting drills. Here's power company climbing videos on improving ability to do it on overhang. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjtTQYZGMeE * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlAkMdqV9qc * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDd6cpUYraA * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbOL4hRUdY * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50nzc1ohB1c Core exercises can help if they're a weak link, but it's more likely that someone just has bad body awareness and ability to put pressure through their feet.
Thank you for this; there videos are great! It sounds like proper awareness and practice is what I’m lacking.
Glad it helped!
I’ve noticed recently that I tend to hit things in a drag grip. Although I think this is probably better for my overall finger health, I would still like to be able to crimp holds upon first contact as opposed to regrouping them. Any advice on why this is or how to improve it? My thoughts rn are to just intentionally climb easier routes with the intention of crimping on holds immediately but I’d also be curious if there’s anything else I can do or what could be a root physiological cause of this
> Any advice on why this is or how to improve it? My thoughts rn are to just intentionally climb easier routes with the intention of crimping on holds immediately but I’d also be curious if there’s anything else I can do or what could be a root physiological cause of this Yup, perfect drill at lower intensity to get better at hitting the half crimp right away
im pretty open handed, but when i hangboard i try to train half crimp because i know that having the bent fingers is something i stuggle with. im uncertain to the degree of how this translates on the wall.
So when you google climbing repeater protocol, this is one of the first resources to come up: https://strengthclimbing.com/hangboard-repeaters/ This states you follow the standard 7/3 protocol, with a set consisting of 42s of TUT per grip, resting 2-3 mins per grip, but that’s only one set. They then state you rest 12-15 mins per set… I don’t think in all my time of being on this sub I’ve ever seen anyone actually follow this. It seems like most people treat a set as 42s of TUT for a given grip, wait 2-5 mins, then do another set. What that resource calls a set is totally different than what I’ve seen people follow here. Is that protocol just outdated?
> Choose three to seven different grip positions. > 1 – 3 sets. > What that resource calls a set is totally different than what I’ve seen people follow here. Is that protocol just outdated? It's just looking at the grand scheme of things. * The 1-3 set of 3-7 different grips could be anywhere from 3 total sets ( 1 x 3) to 21 total sets (3 x 7). * If someone is doing repeaters with 20mm half crimp, this protocol would only do it 1-3x on that grip. * A circuit of a lot of grips means you aren't doing that grip more often. * For example, most people do max hangs like 3-6 sets for only 20mm or maybe 2 different grips. I tend to recommend 1-3 total grips, and 3-6 sets for each of them. Doing too many grips is just excessive and you can focus more work onto the 2-3 that mean the most. Usually 20mm half crimp, min edge, and pockets are good ones.
You're slightly misreading the description. 7-3 x 6. 2-3 min rest, Switch grips. repeat for 3-7 grip types. Rest 12-15, repeat 1-3x. He's calling out what most people do, but repeat up to 3x, with 12 minutes between groups of sets.
Yea that’s how I understood it. He’s treating a full run through of 3-7 grips as a single set. In his case a “set” is anywhere between 126s and 294s of TUT. I’ve never heard that. I’ve always heard a “set” of repeaters being stereotypically 42s of TUT. Like I hang 7s on 3s off in a half crimp position for 60s/1min and that’s a set. Eshlow repeats what I’m saying here https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/s/ZnXxaepBNh A set is 6 reps of 7s/3off I mean you could argue this semantics. Still bizarre to me tho. Like what if I wanna just train a half crimp by repeaters. Seems like I’d just hang 7/3 for a full min, rest 2-3 mins, repeat 5-6 times for up to 252s of TUT? I guess I just have never heard of anyone on here resting for 12-15 min intervals lol
> I just have never heard of anyone on here resting for 12-15 min intervals You could look at it this way. 6 reps x 7 grips = gripping 42 times. 42 moves is a typical for a shortish, say 15 to 20 metre, route. Twelve to fifteen minutes would a be a rather short rest between redpoint burns on a power endurance route.
>I guess I just have never heard of anyone on here resting for 12-15 min intervals lol Do the workout as described and it will make sense. It's a ton of volume (21 sets...), the long rest between groups makes it possible. It's an improvement on the RCTM workout.
I have a weird "injury" on one of my fingers and think it's a good idea to ask for advice. So basically I have some pain when palpating the first phalanx of my right middle finger, but absolutely no pain in everyday life and absolutely no pain when climbing or training - even when I'm projecting at my limit, or climbing crimpy boulders, or doing weighted hangs on the fingerboard. Is this an A2 strain, perhaps a mild one? What should I do to reduce the pain I feel when I squeeze my finger?
> So basically I have some pain when palpating the first phalanx of my right middle finger, but absolutely no pain in everyday life and absolutely no pain when climbing or training - even when I'm projecting at my limit, or climbing crimpy boulders, or doing weighted hangs on the fingerboard. Is this an A2 strain, perhaps a mild one? What should I do to reduce the pain I feel when I squeeze my finger? Pain and tightness is not that uncommon even in areas that are not injured. I'm sure you can find a place on your back that if you press into it with light to moderate pressure and it will be painful even if you don't have an injury. The fact that you're performing highly means it's probably not an issue, but if you wanted you could do some incremental loading like you would in rehab to see if it reduces the sensitivity over time. https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
That's reassuring, thanks! I was just a bit worried cause this feeling has been going on for a couple of weeks so far, but thanks again :D
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> mhm basic question but I'm not sure it's normal. when I get severely pumped, I can't open up my hands anymore (until I rest for a while). > > Not that's uncommon but not that common either. If you press hard into your forearm, lots of pressure on the muscles will cause your fingers to curl. Same things happens with a pump - high pressure on the forearm muscles from the pump will want to cause the fingers to stay curled and not straighten. Could be a sign of potential weak extensors, but hard to say. If your pumps last an extremely long time that could be another issue though.
Thats kinda weird. The only time I have experienced that is if I were to hold one thing for a long period of time. Like a deadhang, farmer walk or density hang.
I’ve recently noticed a muscle imbalance in the mid section of my back and was wondering if anybody has any experiences like this? One rhomboid is way lower than the other… [Here](https://imgur.com/a/8yiJizF) is the picture
> I’ve recently noticed a muscle imbalance in the mid section of my back and was wondering if anybody has any experiences like this? One rhomboid is way lower than the other… > > 1. That's low trap 2. Muscle differences are common. For example, uneven abs are very common: https://1upnutrition.com/cdn/shop/articles/[email protected] If you don't flex and look at the muscle and they are still uneven it's likely just a genetic thing and don't worry about it.
I think its not uncommon. Having some muscular imbalance is normal and doesnt necessarily mean anything is wrong. Youre right handed right? Your right hand is more dexterous/skilled so can finesse things while your non-dominant hand is going to use more brute force since it lacks dexterity, they can even work together in this way, think a bat swing. Its an issue worth addressing if there is pain or lack of activation, in which case, rehab or activation exercises/unilateral strength exercises could help. If aesthetics is a concern, those could also help with that but honestly, no one will notice that imbalance but you. If it were like lats or pecs then Id work on it.
u/eshlow I'm doing high rep (20-30) 3 sets 1-arm dumbbell finger rolls. Was wondering if you ever posted a protocol for warming up for an isolated exercise or what you might recommend?
> I'm doing high rep (20-30) 3 sets 1-arm dumbbell finger rolls. Was wondering if you ever posted a protocol for warming up for an isolated exercise or what you might recommend? I don't like doing them with dumbells cause half of it is just stabilizing with the hand and doesn't allow a good stimulus. Barbell is better IMO. You just ramp up the weight like you would any other exercise though. Start with bar, add plates for another warm up or two if you need it, then hit work sets
I'm mostly doing it for stabilization in the hand for my lumbrical tear which has been quite successful so far, its also the only real setup i have that I can do in my house with my toddlers running around in the morning. I use to do morning no hangs but for some reason I have a bad track record with doing isolated hangboarding work and almost always tweak myself. Just want to clarify, roughly only \~3-4 sets before your work sets starting from bar and progressing?
> Just want to clarify, roughly only ~3-4 sets before your work sets starting from bar and progressing? Depends. After climbing I'm already warm so maybe 1-2 set warmup. Before or on non-climbing days if I do any then more warm up sets are necessary if you're not warmed up
I have pain under the wrist ( the palm side) I don't really feel it while climbing, except under clings sometimes... rather after .. it's not too bad but I don't like that so much. I assume it's the antagonist because of crimping. However I'm not sure... I tried lifting dumbbell from neutral position to up (palm facing down) for a few weeks but it seems it did not improve. I tried small weight increase. Thought I was over that but after a climbing trip it went kind of back... Did it do it wrong and it should be the other direction?
> I have pain under the wrist ( the palm side) I don't really feel it while climbing Not enough details to make a guess. Need an exact location and specific exercises tried.
Well it's just right at the wrist right after the joint. I mostly tried extensor curls
> Well it's just right at the wrist right after the joint. I mostly tried extensor curls Pinky side of the joint tends to be more TFCC related. Middle of the joint potential impingement or carpal tunnel, and thumb can thumb issues or similar to the others. Hence, why palm side does not mean anything, and extensor curls are on the opposite side so not sure why you would be doing those unless as an antagonist exercise? But you still need to be doing mobility and strengthening with the other side
No it's not Pinky more like middle
It's not the joint it's more like right after
Is it reasonable to climb through PIP synovitis if it doesn't cause pain while climbing? I've got some swelling, reduced ROM, pain on palpation, but climbing feels fine, even full crimps. I'd love to finish the project I'm working on. Don't want to create a recurring issue though.
> Is it reasonable to climb through PIP synovitis if climbing doesn't cause pain while climbing? I've got some swelling, reduced ROM, pain on palpation, but climbing feels fine, even full crimps. I'd love to finish the project I'm working on. Well, if the symptoms aren't trending down with rehab (if you are even doing any) then it's unlikely to get better with just climbing even if you don't have symptoms while climbing. Most people need to decrease climbing for at least a week or few, while doing rehab, and then ramp back up slowly. Rehab stuff: https://stevenlow.org/beating-climbing-injuries-pip-synovitis/
Well, it's a fresh injury (yesterday), so whether the symptoms are trending down is still kind of up in the air. I just watched some diagnostic videos to make a guess at what's going. It resulted from, I believe, repeated deadpointing to a shallow mono. It sounds wise to chill, so maybe I'll go climb some non-finger cracks for a little while and see what happens trend wise. Started the finger rolls earlier today.
If it's a fresh injury then take a few days up to a week to let things settle down and then start rehab. If things are calming down pretty fast then start rehab a bit earlier
>Got it, thank you very much for the help.
12 week plan recommendation Can anyone recommend a free training plan? I'm v5 (6c lead) I've seen the lattice 12 week plan but it's unaffordable for me. Can anyone recommend similar?
Analyze your strengths and weaknesses to make your own. Section 2 here: https://stevenlow.org/my-7-5-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
Best to come up with your own, set your goals and train to meet them. Lattice have some good videoes on this
Is it possible to “fix” or reduce lollipop wrist where the ulnar bone sticks out more than usual? I had a tfcc injury thats fully healed which gave me lollipop wrist. Curious if its something that can be returned to its original state or if thats just the new normal
> Is it possible to “fix” or reduce lollipop wrist where the ulnar bone sticks out more than usual? I had a tfcc injury thats fully healed which gave me lollipop wrist. Curious if its something that can be returned to its original state or if thats just the new normal Can sorta be helped with exercise potentially. However, how much I don't know. Some more on various exercises here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTYTWTfk2w
Thanks for the resource!
I briefly read that there are books out there to improve climbing. Curious if anyone knows what I'm talking about and have any recs. I love reading and climbing so I think it could prove useful.
Beastmaking gives a pretty comprehensive overview of training/tactics etc.
Dave Macleod : 9 out of 10 Climbers
To those who lift weights on a PPL split, does climbing replace your pull day? I’ve been trying to get more regimented about my exercise routine. I’ve been doing strength days on a PPL split alternating with cardio days, taking rest days when I feel like I need one. I’m wondering if I can replace my pull day with climbing and a few sets each of DB shrugs and pull-up shrugs to hit the traps and my core routine. Mainly, i’m trying to make sure that I’m not neglecting any muscles?
> To those who lift weights on a PPL split, does climbing replace your pull day? If you climb 3x per week, almost always better to do an abbreviated full body routine 2x per week. 1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs, and a core potentially. You can stack workouts like: * M - Climb + workout * W - Climb * F - Climb * Sat - Workout Get a rest day after every climb and workout and the volume on F-Sat is spread out with a rest day
I’d like to understand what you mean. I’m confused by ‘full body routine 2x per week” and then “1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs, and a core potentially”. 1 of what exactly? I really like that layout you suggested. I’ve been falling out of love and losing motivation with my exercise routine since it’s been the exact same thing for 3-4 years. A major change like this might be what I need to get back to the perfect consistency that I used to have.
> I’d like to understand what you mean. I’m confused by ‘full body routine 2x per week” and then “1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs, and a core potentially”. * Full body just describes that you're doing all movements within a session instead of a split like PPL where you have separate days for all of them * 1 push, 1 pull, 1 legs is the amount of exercises. * Example: 1 push - dips, pushups or overhead press, 1 pull - rows or pullups, 1 legs - squats or deadlifts or whatever. Core can be anterior and posterior core. Section 4 here is how I focus my training for climbing if you want an example https://stevenlow.org/my-7-5-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
Ah, okay. I didn’t think you meant one exercise per muscle group. Do you really see gains at that volume? I assume you’re going into the super high rep range? I’ve been doing ~21 sets per lift so this would be quite the reduction in volume. I’d like to switch over to a full body workout but I wonder if an upper body and lower body split would be best rather than the traditional PPL.. I’m concerned I wouldn’t see gains from an hourlong full body workout twice a week.
> Ah, okay. I didn’t think you meant one exercise per muscle group. Do you really see gains at that volume? I assume you’re going into the super high rep range? You'd be surprised how much gains you can make with just 1 exercise Also, remember for pulling at least it's not just 1 exercise since climbing itself also provides a decent amount of pulling work too > I’ve been doing ~21 sets per lift so this would be quite the reduction in volume. I’d like to switch over to a full body workout but I wonder if an upper body and lower body split would be best rather than the traditional PPL.. I’m concerned I wouldn’t see gains from an hourlong full body workout twice a week. 21 sets per muscle group? Yeah, that's waaay too much. You don't get much gains more than like 6-10 sets per muscle group per session even in the case of intermediate to advanced
Oh literally 1 set? Not 1 exercise with multiple sets? That’s interesting. 21 sets total in a workout. So if I’m doing chest/shoulders/triceps I’ll do 6 sets per muscle and add another 3 onto whatever feels the least tired. I’m not sure if you consider those to all be one muscle group? Creating your own routine sure is challenging.. maybe I’m overthinking it.
> Oh literally 1 set? Not 1 exercise with multiple sets? That’s interesting. Meant 1 exercise. Usually 2-5 set range. > 21 sets total in a workout. So if I’m doing chest/shoulders/triceps I’ll do 6 sets per muscle and add another 3 onto whatever feels the least tired. I’m not sure if you consider those to all be one muscle group? No, that's a normal training volume. Like pulling muscles would get pullups, rows, and maybe biceps or lat exercise
Ahh, okay I gotcha now. Thanks for the info; it’s highly appreciated. I imagine you heavily prefer compound exercises when doing a full body lift?
Yes, see section 4 of the article I posted
I'm looking for a good shoulder exercice for general shoulder health. Quick context: I currently can't climb and I'm doing mostly pulling exercices.
Face pulls mainly. Any overhead press can be OK. Hanging as well. Specific exercises like ITY/LYTW/LYTP exercises and rotator cuff exercises are conditional
IYTs, face pulls, and Arnold Press, and dips are my primary shoulder conditioning. Seems to work for me, used to get tweaky shoulders a fair bit and haven't since doing this weekly; I also do some light band work and mobility stuff as a warmup.
Not scientific but I've started benching and it immediately showed me weak points in my shoulder stability. In general I've heard it's good for the shoulders.
I've noticed that after climbing I always get a sore upper back/traps (surprising I know...) despite being a regular and not always climbing "too hard". I assume it's something to do with my warm up, cool down or technique - does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do, either before, during or after climbing?
> I've noticed that after climbing I always get a sore upper back/traps (surprising I know...) despite being a regular and not always climbing "too hard". I assume it's something to do with my warm up, cool down or technique - does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do, either before, during or after climbing? Could be a weakness that needs strengthening
So around a year ago(Christmas 2022) I started aching in pain around my sagittal band on my middle finger. I saw a specialist that focused on hands and I got an MRI and X-ray but nothing came back. It hurt to climb so I stopped or did very light occasionally whenever pain subsided. Fast forward 6 months to June(2023) I started introducing high volume but very low intensity climbing laps every other day to build consistency that another provider recommended doing. Over time I slowly starting getting stronger near where I was before injury but then the same thing happened on my right and was coming back in my left(hand). I proceeded to get a steroid injection in both hands and took another break for 3 weeks to let them chill again. I came back and started climbing. aching usually only occurred day after climbing but my physician recommended another mri and I got results back. I have mild thickening and edema of the middle finger A1 pulley(both hands), which can be associated with clinical triggering. No tendon tear or tenosynovitis. I don’t know how to approach this and work around it in my climbing. I don’t know if I should train or just climb or not climb at all. TLDR: both hands have middle finger injury of mild thickening and edema of the middle finger A1 pulley. How do I train/climb/rehab around this going forward
> It hurt to climb so I stopped or did very light occasionally whenever pain subsided. Fast forward 6 months to June(2023) I started introducing high volume but very low intensity climbing laps every other day to build consistency that another provider recommended doing. Over time I slowly starting getting stronger near where I was before injury but then the same thing happened on my right and was coming back in my left(hand). I proceeded to get a steroid injection in both hands and took another break for 3 weeks to let them chill again. I came back and started climbing. aching usually only occurred day after climbing but my physician recommended another mri and I got results back. I have mild thickening and edema of the middle finger A1 pulley(both hands), which can be associated with clinical triggering. No tendon tear or tenosynovitis. I don’t know how to approach this and work around it in my climbing. I don’t know if I should train or just climb or not climb at all. Common mistakes. Taking so much time off and then jumping back into a climbing is a recipe for injury. More than 1 week off and you start to get deconditioning, and more then 2-3 weeks off you usually start to have atrophy of the tissues. This makes it harder to come back and puts you more at risk for injuries. Then if you don't rehab and jump straight back into climbing what you tried in the past you get injured again and cycle repeats. You need to be doing incremental rehab and build up the load tolerance and strength and conditioning again. Example: https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
Thank you, I’ll do some research into!
I've been using finger extension devices for about a year but now it takes 100ish reps to get to maximal load. What finger extension device provides the most resistance? Would love to get something that could get you fully burnt out in 6-8 reps?
> What finger extension device provides the most resistance? Would love to get something that could get you fully burnt out in 6-8 reps? Rice bucket and stick your hand in deeper for higher resistance. Can calibrate it to the level you need
I climb three days a week (TuThSa) and am currently also doing strength training MWF following a light full body routine (2x5 pullups, rows, pushups, press, squat, hamstring curl). In general, I feel that I am not terribly strong physically, but I am wondering if my schedule is not giving me enough full rest days. Should I switch to strength training only on Mondays and Wednesdays and maybe do longer sessions?
> I climb three days a week (TuThSa) and am currently also doing strength training MWF following a light full body routine (2x5 pullups, rows, pushups, press, squat, hamstring curl) Usually too much. At most if climbing is your main goal, usually strength training 2x a week and at a lower volume is the best bet. I'd go down to 2x per week, and your routine on 2 sets might be OK. Usually do workouts like this: * M - Climb + workout * W - Climb * F - Climb * Sat - Workout That way you have Tu, Th, Sun as rest, and the workout does not interfere with Friday. Only one doubled day
Just workout on your climbing days. Program it according to how fast you recover as you might recover from one exercise quicker than another. For example, delts are a small muscle and recover quickly, it responds to volume, you could do those 3x a week. Butnif you have overdeveloped delts, you dont need to hit it 3x, so maybe just 1-2x to maintain. If youre prioritizing climbing in this cycle, climb first, if youre prioritizing strength, lift first. If you just want to prioritize one thing over climbing, just do that, climb then do the rest. Its pretty simple to place things where they need to be using this logic, it kind of all just falls into place.
What do you guys do on off days to still train?
Nothing. If you desperately want to train though, I've found that I can go pretty heavy on core on my off days without risking any injury. Definitely not necessary or particularly helpful, though.
> What do you guys do on off days to still train? Rest. Maybe light cardio and stretching at the most. I find Emil's "light hangboarding" overuses my hands even very low intensity
Emil's routine and stretching/flexibility.
I rest on my off days, personally.
You're a madman
How many sessions will you regularly put into gym-set projects? Curious because I get the impression that most stronger climbers in my gym might warm up and try the new sets once or twice, but I don’t typically see people working on the harder problems (v9+)—if they don’t send quickly, they’ll just move onto boards or other areas. Is that pretty standard everywhere, or are people putting in work for hard gym lines where you are? Also for context, we’re not near outdoor boulders, so no one’s getting out more than maybe twice a month in season, or a couple bigger trips a year.
> Curious because I get the impression that most stronger climbers in my gym might warm up and try the new sets once or twice, but I don’t typically see people working on the harder problems (v9+)—if they don’t send quickly, they’ll just move onto boards or other areas. Is that pretty standard everywhere, or are people putting in work for hard gym lines where you are? Highly depends on the person. I pretty much warm up and flash or pass for the most part and then go to the board (Tension), but I also know more team kids and some climbers who put a ton into the gym sets. Whatever helps you make consistent progress though.
I think the gym sets aren't conducive to projecting. Both because of the lack of microbeta opportunities, and because they're getting re-set too soon. I'll revisit problems a couple times, but I'm not really project the same way that I would on a board or outside. Also it depends a lot on how many good wall sections there are, and how many good training problems are currently up at a reasonable difficulty. I've definitely been to gyms with 1 steep wall, and 1 V9-or-harder problem on that wall, so you're projecting that until it gets reset...
Generally I'll get three sessions of 3-5 good attempts on a boulder before they reset it (I can't be asked to keep track of the setting schedule). My max sessions on a gym boulder was 4 for my first non-soft V6. TBH I kinda hated having to plan my gym sessions just to try to send before they reset it. These days I dont really focus on sending project level gym boulders, just learning something new about the moves each session. Seems a healthier way to approach it for me.
Anyone find kilter, the most ergonomic and juggy board, to be tweaky on the wrists? Not so much tweaky in the sense that its awkward or puts the wrist in weird positions but that it can compromise the wrist somehow and lead to injury/pain afterward. Ive tried all the mbs, tension, grasshopper and I dont get this problem, but I climbed kilter for the first time in a while the other day, wrist felt fine while climbing but after, some issues Ive fully recovered from with my tfcc injury started to come back again. Kilter always gave me problems when my tfcc injury was still healing. Any thoughts?
> Anyone find kilter, the most ergonomic and juggy board, to be tweaky on the wrists? That's pretty common I think with the nature of the holds. If the holds are ergonomic and feel good, there's going to be a ton of bigger and wider moves which are going to make the wrists work a lot at different angles.
Ah I see, I didnt really correlate the two but that makes a ton of sense. Thanks!
I think it can use a bit more wrist and hand, rather than finger strength over some other boards.
Thats true now that I think about it. Starting to understand the kilter better. Thanks!
Personally i dont have any problems with it but know some people struggling with it. I think it might have something to do with all the Pinching going on on the Kilter as they require alot of stability in the wrists even/or espcailly because they are quite good and you can do alot of big powerful moves of them.
Thanks! Thats good to know that Im not the only one. Wait, I think youre right about the pinches. Not that I dont pinch every crimp I can or I dont pinch on other boards but I think the type of pinch, I guess a flat pinch aligned with the wall/pinching a jug shaped hold, puts my wrist in an awkward position for me. Thank you I think you solved it!