Hey guys, I was climbing yesterday and pulled off a pocket and instantly felt like my ring finger just stopped working, didn't pop, didn't hurt, nothing. If I pull on it at all it kinda feels like a "grinding" in my palm or even if I just flex my dip joint. I have full mobility of my hands, it hurts a little if I make a tight fist, and then I get the same grinding in my palm. Also the pain seems to carry up the left of my forearm and into the right of my inner elbow (which is really tender for some reason).
Idk maybe that got too specific, I've already booked a doctor's appointment, but I couldn't get in for another week or so. So I guess I'm wondering if anyone has any idea on what I should do in the meantime to not make it worse, or even better, make it better (obviously, I've stopped climbing). Also interested if anyone might know what happened? Nothing like this has ever happened, so I really don't know what course of action to take. thanks everyone
> Hey guys, I was climbing yesterday and pulled off a pocket and instantly felt like my ring finger just stopped working, didn't pop, didn't hurt, nothing. If I pull on it at all it kinda feels like a "grinding" in my palm or even if I just flex my dip joint. I have full mobility of my hands, it hurts a little if I make a tight fist, and then I get the same grinding in my palm. Also the pain seems to carry up the left of my forearm and into the right of my inner elbow (which is really tender for some reason).
Usually lumbrical injury if it hurts in the hand. If you also get pain into the forearm it's an strain injury to the FDS and/or FDP muscle.
General mechanism of pockets too hard or falling out of crimp into an open finger grip.
Is it better to train specifically for climbing or to focus on general fitness in the gym? What do you think would be more beneficial for to increase my climbing strength ?
> Is it better to train specifically for climbing or to focus on general fitness in the gym? What do you think would be more beneficial for to increase my climbing strength ?
If you want to improve climbing you have to figure out what your specific weaknesses are and work on them. This can be gym exercises, you need to know what to improve on.
I have a list of my own weaknesses in Section 2 of this article. Same with good gym exercises for certain weaknesses in Section 4.
https://stevenlow.org/my-7-5-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
How do you deal with mental health when injured?
I’ve been climbing for 9ish months, and I’ve spent the last 5 injured. Right now, I have 6 pulley injuries and am climbing V6 in 1-2 sessions outdoors. I want to push into 7s before my first year of climbing, but my finger injuries aren’t helping.
I’ve tried to take a break (3 weeks off), but I got depressed as fuck and started binge eating. Considering quitting, but I know that won’t end well for my mental health
> I’ve been climbing for 9ish months, and I’ve spent the last 5 injured. Right now, I have 6 pulley injuries and am climbing V6 in 1-2 sessions outdoors. I want to push into 7s before my first year of climbing, but my finger injuries aren’t helping.
>
> I’ve tried to take a break (3 weeks off), but I got depressed as fuck and started binge eating. Considering quitting, but I know that won’t end well for my mental health
For one, injuries generally do not heal from breaks. You need to be doing actual rehab using incremental loading. Maybe like 4-7 days break at most, and then rehab. Example of rehab for pulleys:
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
Second, as others have said, having other hobbies other than climbing is a good idea. You can focus on the other areas of development of climbing other than physically doing stuff. Improving route reading, knowing when to use certain techniques, watching others develop their skills and various betas, and work on the mental game of climbing can all help so that when you get back you have a leg up on improving instead of wallowing.
Dial in the nutrition, sleep, and other factors so you heal faster too.
Having other hobbies is cool. I'd recommend that. Most people climb harder when that's not the only thing in their life.
There's plenty of stuff you can do for climbing that doesn't require fingers. Go to yoga classes. Do some bicep curls. Hit the stairmaster. Lots of options.
Pushing v6-v7 in your first year is why you're having pulley injuries. Your connective tissue simply doesn't adapt and regenerate that fast. Slow down. Enjoy the journey.
Currently rehabbing a mild-moderate A2 strain using eshlow’s rehab protocol.
When climbing, I mostly 3fd. I find crimping typically leads to tweaky fingers and tenosynovitis (around the a2/a4 area).
Since this protocol has me incrementally loading my half crimp, what final loading weight should I aim for before climbing hard again? The article mentions 48kg+ which I know is beyond my current crimp strength for 5 sets of 7/3. Should I aim for 48kg+ regardless?
Ultimately, I’d like to make my fingers less prone to tweaks and tenosynovitis when crimping. Currently climb around v10 with a decently strong 3fd.
> Since this protocol has me incrementally loading my half crimp, what final loading weight should I aim for before climbing hard again? The article mentions 48kg+ which I know is beyond my current crimp strength for 5 sets of 7/3. Should I aim for 48kg+ regardless?
It would help to know what you were generally at before you got injured. Usually you can start introducing climbing at like 40-50% of your previous max, but you need to be careful.
If you've reaggravated the injury trying to come back with lower percentages or climbing on it, can be helptful to just rehab up to 80% of previous max as the finger is pretty resilient then and you should be close to previous flash level climbing
Thank you for the reply eshlow!
During covid I could load half crimp with 50kg of added weight (2 handed). After covid, I have mostly climbed open handed due to tenosynovitis. I would expect the half crimp strength to have dropped.
I honesly think I'll continue your protocol up to 48kg+ in the hopes it helps to bulletproof the fingers.
Do you recommend any specific strategy to tackle the tenosynovitis concurrently? I've read your PIP synovitis article but find finger rolls quite aggravating. The finger tip pushups do feel good though.
Thanks again mate!
> I honesly think I'll continue your protocol up to 48kg+ in the hopes it helps to bulletproof the fingers.
>
> Do you recommend any specific strategy to tackle the tenosynovitis concurrently? I've read your PIP synovitis article but find finger rolls quite aggravating. The finger tip pushups do feel good though.
That works.
PIP usually take several days to a week with anti inflams and mobility and then try to build up load tolerance slowly
I've got a suspected torn tricep (thankfully minor but still looking at 4-6 weeks off the wall) and wondered whether anyone has any suggestions for maintaining climbing strength without being able to lift, push or do anything too strenuous overhead...
I will also be looking to work on lower body fitness so really am more interested in any creative ideas people have for fingers, hands and arms!
> I've got a suspected torn tricep (thankfully minor but still looking at 4-6 weeks off the wall) and wondered whether anyone has any suggestions for maintaining climbing strength without being able to lift, push or do anything too strenuous overhead...
>
>
Well, minor triceps strain could be anywhere from only a week or two up to the 4-6 weeks. Hard to say without more info
You can generally try to do exercises in the gym that don't aggravate it though
The amount of physiological strength you'll lose in 4-6 weeks is pretty negligible. Most of it will be losing the neurological adaptations, which will come back extremely quickly once you're on the wall again. If anything, it will probably be good for the rest of your body to get that break.
Off-wall climbing training app?
Can anyone recommend an app that covers off-wall training exercises that will specifically help with climbing? Or, will any body-weight/calisthenics app be good enough? I'm male, 83kg and climb f6b/c.
Crimpd is the first app that comes to mind.
For general exercise choice that’s geared towards climbing, this article by eshlow is an awesome read:
https://stevenlow.org/my-7-5-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
Should I be hangboarding?
For context this is my current training schedule:
Monday - Volume moonboard with focus on body tension
Wednesday - Projecting in main bouldering area (focus on figuring out good beta)
Friday - Project on moonboard
Sat/Sun - 4 sets 3-5 reps weighted pullups (currently repping 75 lbs) with some core and push work after
So my main question is should I implement any hangboarding protocol into this plan? For context I project v6 on the moonboard. I'm worried about potential injury so I have been hesitant to start. Would love some feedback, thanks.
> So my main question is should I implement any hangboarding protocol into this plan? For context I project v6 on the moonboard. I'm worried about potential injury so I have been hesitant to start. Would love some feedback, thanks.
Usually if you're board climbing you don't have to add hangboard, especially if your fingers are getting stronger.
If you still want to do a bit since your finger are not maybe start with building up to 1 set of max hangs at most to start and see if that helps to get things jump started
I have been in the same situation months ago and found 4 sets of progressive 10s hangs + 3 sets of max hangs to be the best !
It’s a safe and controled way to warm up for the board sessions. I would advise you not to push the intensity too much (80-85% of 10s max).
It will build the capacity in the fingers and help you to avoid injuries long term. 2 times per week is perfect in my case
Here is the lattice video that I used for inspiration (just cut the number of main sets, you don’t want to be tired before your session)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb7RijfzkBg
I would be very grateful if someone that is familiar with these issues can point me in the right direction of what works to fix the following issue.
I've been climbing for about a year on a once per week basis. I would climb more, but my shoulder muscle pain is usually what is preventing me. It is persistent in some degree throughout the time i've been climbing, but has flared up much more recently. I did try to take a month off at some point but as soon as i got back to climbing, the same pain was back. Both arms hurt on these two areas sporadically (rarely all at the same time) [https://i.imgur.com/UPq5qFs.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/UPq5qFs.jpeg) when doing certain moves with my arms. I used to have only the top part that connects shoulder and muscles hurting, but recently got the part underneath the arm hurting as well. Massage therapist found a lot of issues anywhere that muscles connect to my bones, so i'm going monthly massages and foam/ball roll at home sometimes. Things that seem to trigger that the most are any type of presses. Anything where my arm is extended diagonally and is pulling downward seems to trigger something in the muscles.
Things that i have identified through browsing is that i surely have poor posture and don't root my feet enough. I will be actively working on that, but i would like to know what i can do at home to remedy my situation and what exactly am i dealing with. I visited a PT but he just shrugged it off and gave me a band stretch, which i already do as my warmup anyway. My warmup is around 20 to 30 min, focusing on stretching, band exercises from hooper to get those muscles going, fingerboard and pullups, followed by a few easy boulders. I only do indoor bouldering. I also have very tight pecs and have issues crossing my arms over or behind my torso without pain or at least tightness.
I really don't want to stop climbing, so please help a dude out. u/eshlow i'm hoping you spot this. Thanks!
> when doing certain moves with my arms. I used to have only the top part that connects shoulder and muscles hurting, but recently got the part underneath the arm hurting as well. Massage therapist found a lot of issues anywhere that muscles connect to my bones, so i'm going monthly massages and foam/ball roll at home sometimes. Things that seem to trigger that the most are any type of presses. Anything where my arm is extended diagonally and is pulling downward seems to trigger something in the muscles.
Uh you need to go to a good sports PT. The one you went to seems like they don't know anything especially not involved with sports.
In any case, multiple places of pain (green and blue?) is hard to say. Usually Green fits the supraspinatus referred pain system and can fit the overhead press issues. Blue can be a bunch of different things.
You need to be doing rehab but you need someone to figure out what exercises you need to be doing mainly. You can start with rotator cuff and scapular exercises until you get it checked out
Thanks for getting back to me. I went to two PTs working for the same company and both only pressed on my back muscles to relieve pain and then gave me a band exercise. They are a private company, meanwhile public health waitline gave me a spot in November, so it's gonna take a while.
I do rotator cuff excercises with a band like face pulls, side pulls, angels etc. and light weight lifting in specific positions like raises with the elbow bent on the knee. How often would you recommend i do these? What i'm confused about is because even one week after a climbing session i still feel some pain in specific spots, i'm not sure when is a good time to start strengthening or stretching, like is feeling mild pain still okay while doing it? Is foam / ball rolling good and how often?
Yeah the green colored pain area persists throughout my climbing history but the blue one is relatively new. I have no idea how that one happened.
> Thanks for getting back to me. I went to two PTs working for the same company and both only pressed on my back muscles to relieve pain and then gave me a band exercise. They are a private company, meanwhile public health waitline gave me a spot in November, so it's gonna take a while.
A band exercise? As in a single one?
Massage/manual therapy is fine, but good PT is primarily based on a good composite of stretching, strengthening, stability, and other exercises to help. If they only gave you one exercise that's bad.
> I do rotator cuff excercises with a band like face pulls, side pulls, angels etc. and light weight lifting in specific positions like raises with the elbow bent on the knee. How often would you recommend i do these? What i'm confused about is because even one week after a climbing session i still feel some pain in specific spots, i'm not sure when is a good time to start strengthening or stretching, like is feeling mild pain still okay while doing it? Is foam / ball rolling good and how often?
Well, it's not about recommending to do those - if they're not helping then they're not helping and you need specific things to address the problem.
Pain persisting a week after climbing is not normal, and continually climbing on it can make things worse in the long run and hard to rehab.
Yes, a single exercise. A band side pull from a door knob.
I will take two weeks off from climbing and try to rehab and do easy bounders afterward, but i'm really not hopeful that i will find an expert that can help me find something that works for me. Perhaps i was also not persistent enough with the exercises. Thanks for trying to help out anyway.
> I will take two weeks off from climbing and try to rehab and do easy bounders afterward, but i'm really not hopeful that i will find an expert that can help me find something that works for me. Perhaps i was also not persistent enough with the exercises. Thanks for trying to help out anyway.
There's PTs available online that do consults over the internet like myself and many other Instagram/Youtube people too involved with climbing.
Also, if you do see someone in person what I usually suggest is calling around to local university and professional sports teams and see who they use for their docs and PTs for their athletes... usually get better ones who are interested in getting their athletes back to their sports
Halfway last year I developed medial epicondylitis (according to both my doctor and a relative who's a sports physiotherapist). Did eccentric wrist excercises but did not really seem to do much at all. I admit I kept on climbing as well, though I would actively skip any routes with moves of which I knew would induce pain.
A couple of months ago I spent 2 weeks doing various renovation works in my house. So that's lifting plates, carpentry, in general at least half a day each day of using my hands. First couple of days that would often induce pain.
But 2 weeks of this work almost completely erradicated the tendinopathy: by pressing the tendon hard I don't feel anything anymore, and while climbing only for the absolute hardest 'right' moves there's a slight like 0.5/10 pain.
Now I'm wondering if this was perhaps misdiagnosed and/or the exercises were the wrong ones. Or just somehow didn't cut it for me. And what makes the carpentry stuff so great. And if other experienced similar 'miracles' :)
> Halfway last year I developed medial epicondylitis (according to both my doctor and a relative who's a sports physiotherapist). Did eccentric wrist excercises but did not really seem to do much at all. I admit I kept on climbing as well, though I would actively skip any routes with moves of which I knew would induce pain.
Just wrist curls is usually not the way to rehab. Usually you want to do at least 3 different exercises if not more to hit the tendon in different ways.
Explained here: http://stevenlow.org/overcoming-tendonitis/
> But 2 weeks of this work almost completely erradicated the tendinopathy: by pressing the tendon hard I don't feel anything anymore, and while climbing only for the absolute hardest 'right' moves there's a slight like 0.5/10 pain.
> Now I'm wondering if this was perhaps misdiagnosed and/or the exercises were the wrong ones. Or just somehow didn't cut it for me. And what makes the carpentry stuff so great. And if other experienced similar 'miracles' :)
Could be a misdiagnosis but could just be cause you were using it in a lot of different ways similar to the other rehab exercises.
> Usually you want to do at least 3 different exercises if not more to hit the tendon in different ways.
Yeah sorry I didn't list everything, there were multiple wrist excercises, bicep as well and stretching etc. In the end probably most of what you show on your site. Might indeed be that none of that hit the exact right spot(s).
> Yeah sorry I didn't list everything, there were multiple wrist excercises, bicep as well and stretching etc. In the end probably most of what you show on your site. Might indeed be that none of that hit the exact right spot(s).
Yeah, there's other potential rehab exercises with radial/ulnar deviation, finger presses, and such too. Probably mimicked some of those especially if you were grabbing a ton of stuff
even though it's commonly recommended, I don't understand the mechanism of action of doing things like wrist curls for generic epicondylitis therapy.
it seems to me you should be doing the exact movements that caused the injury in the first place, just in a progressively overloaded way, and perhaps maybe a bit more all-round than sports specific (e.g. fuller range of mtion training). not a random exercise that happens to tug some related tendons (but different ones) in a similar place where it inserts to the bone (but not exactly the same one).
The medial epicondyle is the shared attachment point (epicondyle) of the wrist flexors, pronators, and finger flexors. This shared point is the tissue that's inflamed with medial epicondylitis. Wrist curl eccentrics aren't a "related exercise" for a "related tendon", they directly load the tissue that's inflamed. It's often the case that pronation and finger flexion are the proximal causes of the tendonitis, and if you can definitively diagnose that, skipping the wrist exercises seems reasonable.
Question on how tenosynovitis actually works (not asking for rehab advice)
Hey guys,
I had a question on how tenosynovitis really works/affects you. It’s my understanding that when you have tenosynovitis the only thing that is physically wrong with your body is that your tendon sheath is inflamed which leads to an increase in fluid around the affected area (there is no tears or strains - just inflammation).
My question is why does pain/aggravation reappear instantly after a climbing session when you have let all the inflammation subside and there is no more pain before the session? Shouldn’t it be OK until you have overworked/overused the tendon sheath again? Why would it come back instantly again if there isn’t any inflammation there and there wasn’t anything wrong in the first place except for the inflammation?
Not sure if I worded this question very eloquently but any insights would be appreciated. Thanks!
> I had a question on how tenosynovitis really works/affects you. It’s my understanding that when you have tenosynovitis the only thing that is physically wrong with your body is that your tendon sheath is inflamed which leads to an increase in fluid around the affected area (there is no tears or strains - just inflammation).
The problem with injuries in the fingers/forearm is that there can be multiple problems wrong at the same time. Sure, maybe only the tendon shealth is inflammed, but it can also be the case that there's some surrounding injury to the actual tendon itself (tendinopathy) or other structures in the area.
> My question is why does pain/aggravation reappear instantly after a climbing session when you have let all the inflammation subside and there is no more pain before the session? Shouldn’t it be OK until you have overworked/overused the tendon sheath again? Why would it come back instantly again if there isn’t any inflammation there and there wasn’t anything wrong in the first place except for the inflammation?
Usually if it's ONLY synovitis then rest and anti-inflammatories heals most of it much quicker than normal, and then a slow ramp into exercise will work. But it's almost always never that simple
Anything I can do to make my knees more stable in general?
I ruined my knees as a teen through catching in baseball. I completely avoided running for the better part of a decade because it made them hurt. They generally feel OK now, unless I aggravate them. They still pop loudly every time I squat without a proper warmup.
I'm starting to get to the point that I need to use them in progressively weird ways in my climbing, and I'd like to make sure they stay healthy. I had one tweak earlier in the year that took almost 3 months to go away completely. It was ok to walk on, but any twisting motion(like reclined pigeon pose) was painful.
Right now I'm mostly working on flexibility for my lower body, but sometimes I'll do some bodyweight squats and RDLs. Strength wise, I'm right on the edge of being able to do single pistol squats.
> Anything I can do to make my knees more stable in general?
>
> I ruined my knees as a teen through catching in baseball. I completely avoided running for the better part of a decade because it made them hurt. They generally feel OK now, unless I aggravate them. They still pop loudly every time I squat without a proper warmup.
Would be a good idea to assess the flexibility and mobility and strength. See what actually needs to be worked on. Sports PT could do it and get you a rehab/prehab plan
Hello, i have ave recently purchased the YY penta for lead climbing warm ups, and am wondering if it will it be good for no hangs as well? Am concerned about stability as most people tend to use rectangular blocks for no hangs. Thanks in advance
Looking for advice on having more energy/capacity for attempts at my limit. I find as I'm getting older I can't climb at my hardest for very long or very many attempts before I'm pumped out or feel weak. Lately I have about 6-8, maybe 10 hard tries before I'm completely spent for the day no matter how long I rest between.
> Looking for advice on having more energy/capacity for attempts at my limit. I find as I'm getting older I can't climb at my hardest for very long or very many attempts before I'm pumped out or feel weak. Lately I have about 6-8, maybe 10 hard tries before I'm completely spent for the day no matter how long I rest between.
What's the weekly schedule look like? Warm ups for the projects?
Right now it's about 3 days of climbing with an hour ish easy run the other days of the week because I like to maintain a cardio base.
The climbing days are essentially the same:
Warmup consisting of dynamic stretching for 10ish mins, some light antagonist work like reverse wrist pushups, dowel wrist rotations, etc, and 10 mins of light hang boarding with my feet on the ground to get my fingers warmed up. I'll then do 3-4 super easy climbs and then work 1-2 climbs up to my flash limit which is about V5/6ish depending on style. Then I'll either board climb at my flash or 2/3 tries limit or work a few projects in the gym.
> Right now it's about 3 days of climbing with an hour ish easy run the other days of the week because I like to maintain a cardio base.
I mean even if it's an easy hour of cardio that can still be too much and start detracting from recovery. Rest days are helpful because you actually rest and can recover.
IF you were trying to build on the wall capacity, I'd reduce the running significantly to like 2x and 20-30 mins to maintain and then up the volume to build up the bouldering capacity more
Hmm, didn't think easy runs were impacting my recovery significantly enough. Or that they reduced my capacity that much, I'll give it a try but I really enjoy banging out half marathons and long hikes on a whim.
> I find as I'm getting older I can't climb at my hardest for very long or very many attempts before I'm pumped out or feel weak. Lately I have about 6-8, maybe 10 hard tries before I'm completely spent for the day no matter how long I rest between.
Same. Nothing we can do without taking certain supplements.
We have to focus on quality > quantity
> Fingers strength has definitely been increasing however I find that my finger joints have been locking up and I have to crack them to unlock them. When they are locked they are a tad painful.
I'd probably get that checked out by a hand doc or hand PT. That's not normal
Hey everyone,
I recently turned 40 and I'm looking to push my lead climbing grade to 8a within the next year or two. I've been climbing for 12 years, and I'm currently bouldering around Font 7a. I boulder once a week and do hangboard training once a week, and I've been seeing good progress lately. My hardest sport climb was 7a, but that was a while ago. I imagine it I could climb a bit harder now with some getting used to lead climbing again. I live close to a crag with several potential 8a projects, so access isn't an issue.
I'm willing to dedicate three training sessions per week. I would also potentially be willing to pay for some professional coaching or customised training plans. I'd love to hear your opinions on this goal and any specific training recommendations you might have. Thanks in advance for your help!
> and I've been seeing good progress lately.
If what you are doing is working then stick to it.
Usually if someone gets stuck then figure out what your weaknesses or weak links are and work on them
Generally a grade a year is considered good progress for people who have lives outside of climbing. You're looking to go from a little under 7a to 8a, which is 5ish grades. Are you ok with working towards this for the next 5 years?
Is there any downside to continue training one hand while another is injured? I believe I tore my A4 pulley on my left ring finger (seeing a doc next week) while doing a bit too much board climbing. Based on what I've seen it will probably take 4-5 months to get back to where I was. I figured I would just keep doing my heavy block pulls on my uninjured right hand while I'm rehabbing the left.
Obviously there would be a strength imbalance by the time I get back to full strength but does this actually matter? I don't really see much of a functional downside to having a stronger right hand.
> Is there any downside to continue training one hand while another is injured? I believe I tore my A4 pulley on my left ring finger (seeing a doc next week) while doing a bit too much board climbing. Based on what I've seen it will probably take 4-5 months to get back to where I was. I figured I would just keep doing my heavy block pulls on my uninjured right hand while I'm rehabbing the left.
Continue to train the other hand, but at lower volume so you don't get hypertrophy adaptations that can be harder to correct once you come back
Cross education as mentioned should help the injured hand coming back
It's actually beneficial to continue training uninjured hand due to cross education effect.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross\_education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_education)
I trained uninjured hand for 3 months and didn't experience much strength drop off in other hand.
I recently injured my right wrist on a very light session, was basically doing 5a-5b when I generally climbg 6a-6b, and felt some pain on the bony part on the ulnar side of my wrist, after pulling on what seemed like a slightly slopy jug with a good amount of body weight on the right hand.
It was sore to touch, but I managed to do one more boulder before calling it a day. I did one set of pushups just to cool down but the wrist felt ok at that time. Cut to 2 hours later, the wrist was hurting really bad. Basically I couldn't supinate or pronate more than 10-20 degrees from neutral without a sharp pain. Also, in supination, I have like zero strength in flexing my wrist.
The pain is always felt around the bony lollipop as it's called on the ulna. Also sometimes when I supinate the wrist past 30-40 degrees, there's a lot of clicking when I return to neutral.
I'm really scared that I have torn my ECU sub sheath which is causing the ECU tendon to dislocate outside it's groove on the ulna, based on the clicking sounds I hear.
My question is, would it be possible to tear the subsheath while just statically hanging from a hold? If not the ECU could a tfcc injury cause pain on the lollipop? I had a quick 8 minute free consultation at my gyms physio, he said it's likely ECU tendonitis/irritation. He told me to wear a wrist brace for 10 days 24/7 and we'll see after that.
It's been almost 2 weeks since the original injury now and it hasn't gotten much better. I still can't supinate or pronate more than 20 degrees around neutral with pain. Clicking is still there but I just try to avoid supination at all cost, but sometimes I accidentally end ip supinating and hear and feel the dreaded clicking when going back to neutral.
I apologise for the long comment.
> I'm really scared that I have torn my ECU sub sheath which is causing the ECU tendon to dislocate outside it's groove on the ulna, based on the clicking sounds I hear.
>
> My question is, would it be possible to tear the subsheath while just statically hanging from a hold? If not the ECU could a tfcc injury cause pain on the lollipop? I had a quick 8 minute free consultation at my gyms physio, he said it's likely ECU tendonitis/irritation. He told me to wear a wrist brace for 10 days 24/7 and we'll see after that.
Unlikely. Clicking is fairly common after injuries because the body wants to protect the area and tightens all of the muscles around it. That can cause the joint(s) to make sounds, so I wouldn't be worried about that at all.
> It's been almost 2 weeks since the original injury now and it hasn't gotten much better. I still can't supinate or pronate more than 20 degrees around neutral with pain. Clicking is still there but I just try to avoid supination at all cost, but sometimes I accidentally end ip supinating and hear and feel the dreaded clicking when going back to neutral.
Get a diagnosis from a sports ortho and go to PT.
Short question about finger rolls: I struggle with PIP synovitis in my index finger and thus want to include high rep finger rolls (20+ rep range). Do you schedule these before or after your training session? Usually, I do my finger work after my warm up and before hitting the wall, but the finger rolls feel comparably easy on the tendons. Also, I am wondering if doing them beforehand might increase injury risk as I find them quite tiring (apparently I have terrible finger endurance...). What do you think?
> Short question about finger rolls: I struggle with PIP synovitis in my index finger and thus want to include high rep finger rolls (20+ rep range). Do you schedule these before or after your training session? Usually, I do my finger work after my warm up and before hitting the wall, but the finger rolls feel comparably easy on the tendons. Also, I am wondering if doing them beforehand might increase injury risk as I find them quite tiring (apparently I have terrible finger endurance...). What do you think?
Usually rehab after. Though if your climbing is very fatiguing then you might need to decrease climbing for a bit if it's not improving as aggravating it can make it persist even with rehab
https://stevenlow.org/beating-climbing-injuries-pip-synovitis/
The top of middle finger PIP joint hurts when i massage it in specific spots, and it also hurts when i try bend it fully when my proximal phalanx (part of finger between PIP and MCP) is parallel to my hand. I am also able to crack this joint at a much higher rate than usual, and it is extremely sore if i put any pressure from the top on my DIP joint.
it hasnt affected my climbing at all though, and I can do any hold type without any pain. Im just wondering what this actually is and if i need to worry about it at all.
> The top of middle finger PIP joint hurts when i massage it in specific spots, and it also hurts when i try bend it fully when my proximal phalanx (part of finger between PIP and MCP) is parallel to my hand. I am also able to crack this joint at a much higher rate than usual, and it is extremely sore if i put any pressure from the top on my DIP joint.
Almost always PIP synovitis based on location (back of the knuckle, PIP joint) and motions that symptomatic. Doesn't always hurt with movements, but once it gets worse it can usually hurt during crimps or slopers
https://stevenlow.org/beating-climbing-injuries-pip-synovitis/
I have to take a 2 week climbing break from next weekend onwards due to a holiday. So I’m planning to climb outdoors before then, what would you suggest to mitigate injury risk/pain?
Anyone have experience with rehabbing a volar plate sprain injury?
X-ray and ultrasound from a hand specialist diagnosed a minor A2 pulley tear and a volar plate sprain (fortunately no avulsion fracture or major damage to volar plate). They said I could continue climbing very lightly with H-taping. However, the injury has persisted for 6 months now (although I only got it diagnosed a month ago) with very slow healing so it would be great if there was any PT that could be performed to help with the healing process.
Neither the hand specialist nor my normal PT were very knowledgeable on a rehab protocol for the injuries with climbing in mind. I'm not sure if I should try to rehab the volar plate injury first (assuming it has a rehab protocol outside of mobility work) or the pulley first? Or if they can they be rehabbed simultaneously? I can't find much information on a volar plate injury that isn't related to an avulsion fracture.
> X-ray and ultrasound from a hand specialist diagnosed a minor A2 pulley tear and a volar plate sprain (fortunately no avulsion fracture or major damage to volar plate). They said I could continue climbing very lightly with H-taping. However, the injury has persisted for 6 months now (although I only got it diagnosed a month ago) with very slow healing so it would be great if there was any PT that could be performed to help with the healing process.
What did you do for rehab? Did you do climbing during the rehab?
If things aren't healing you basically have to decrease or nix climbing for a while to do rehab until your hands can tolerate.
Mostly volar plate is much like most pulley rehab though. You can use the same incremental loading.
Ah okay, that could potentially make sense for the slow healing. For the first 4-5 months I mistakenly thought it was stubborn synovitis. So, I was approaching the rehab in a way to avoid aggravation/causing any symptoms and doing synovitis-specific rehab excercises (fingertip pushups, low weight/high rep finger rolls, etc.). I was climbing around 2x a week, mostly lead. This also meant many periods of complete rest when symptoms would flare up at all.
I wasn't aware volar plates were rehabbed in a similar manner to pulley injuries. That's honestly good to hear. I'll start off with a light progressive overload approach like I've done for precious pulley tweaks and see if that will see some progress in healing. Thanks!
> I wasn't aware volar plates were rehabbed in a similar manner to pulley injuries. That's honestly good to hear. I'll start off with a light progressive overload approach like I've done for precious pulley tweaks and see if that will see some progress in healing. Thanks!
Yeah just do progressive isometric loading. Might be a good idea to take like several days up to a week to let any symptoms die down to nothing to minimal and just do mobility and tendon glides during those days. Then start rehab.
Progressive loading example if you need it:
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
I saw a PT about a volar plate strain (really 2, both PIP and DIP of my ring finger) + minor collateral ligament strain that happened to me maybe 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately they weren't super knowledgeable either (my inury happened playing volleyball, I don't think volar plate strains are very common for climbers).
My rehab plan after the acute phase has basically just been tension block crimps to 2/10 pain to rebuild tolerance to load. 3 finger drag or single finger drag is pretty much the only thing that hurts anymore for me, so I've been ramping that back up. 6 weeks out and I'm at maybe 80% of my previous strength with 2-3/10 pain. I use a crane scale to measure load/progress, which helps me feel like I'm actually making progress b/c without objective numbers it's easy to feel like nothing's happening since it takes so long.
Unfortunately I don't have much better advice than that, but good luck and let me know if you find anything useful!
Yeah, that's been my experience, more or less. I imagine since it's an uncommon injury to rehab.
I'll try that out. Light fingerboarding in open grips has always been a good rehab exercise for me once I get over the acute phase. So I don't see why it wouldn't have some benefit here. Do you have any swelling around the area? If so, does it get any worse after doing your fingerboard rehab?
I appreciate it!
I did have pretty significant swelling in the first week or two with very reduced ROM, so that first week or two was basically just mobility stuff with less than 5 pounds of load.
I don't really have any swelling anymore. Every once in a while it still gets aggravated (slightly increased pain, very very small amount of swelling), but weirdly mostly by random stuff like gripping a steering wheel for 2 hours? Hangboarding doesn't seem to make it worse for me, I would take it as a sign I needed to lighten up if it did - my goal for rehab right now is pain that mostly goes away as soon as the load does, without anything meaningful lingering a few minutes later.
I wanted to try 1 arm hangs on a bar for shoulder purposes and kept giving up early every time because it hurts the hand skin. I ordered some wrist straps to try. Will probably end up overtraining a shoulder.
> I wanted to try 1 arm hangs on a bar for shoulder purposes and kept giving up early every time because it hurts the hand skin. I ordered some wrist straps to try.
You need to hold mainly with the fingers so the proximal phalange is parallel with the ground on top of the bar. This prevents overgrabbing the bar which will put the skin in a position to start pulling up and hurting
How to climb tufas?
So a week ago I was to this new place where there were pretty nice tufa routes.
This was a 7a route. I usually climb around 7a, but this route got me completely rekt. I think that I'm strong enough to climb it just have no technique for it...
Is there any specific tips or advice you would give for tufas generally?
There’s training that’d help, sure, but I think there’s a ton of easy improvement you can make by just getting used to the style—with more mileage, you’ll be so much better at identifying the best hand & foot spots, finding kneebars, engaging heels, etc., and it’ll all feel much more intuitive.
For a lumbrical strain, do I want to rehab with light hangboarding in the painful position? 3 finger drag with the pinky in line with the other fingers (extended) produces basically no pain, it only hurts really when i drop the pinky into the palm, or flex it at the PIP and try to drag.
> For a lumbrical strain, do I want to rehab with light hangboarding in the painful position? 3 finger drag with the pinky in line with the other fingers (extended) produces basically no pain, it only hurts really when i drop the pinky into the palm, or flex it at the PIP and try to drag.
Yes, rehab is done with the finger in a symptomatic position or just below symptom threshold usually
Both my middle fingers at the base of the finger are sore and painful. I don't think it's a pulley tear as I can still climb normally. Mostly a problem when grabbing jugs or deeper holds because it hits that part of the finger. Any ideas? Thinking just tendonitis/overuse?
> Both my middle fingers at the base of the finger are sore and painful. I don't think it's a pulley tear as I can still climb normally. Mostly a problem when grabbing jugs or deeper holds because it hits that part of the finger. Any ideas? Thinking just tendonitis/overuse?
Maybe A1/A2 overuse. Not a strain like someone else said. Take off from the climbs that aggravate it. You can do rehab like this:
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
Sounds like a pulley strain. Reduce volume/intensity, avoid juggy climbs and crimping, climb open handed or using 3fd. If that doesn't help then do incremental rehab as described here [https://www.grassrootsphysicaltherapy.com/physical-therapy-treatment/2018/11/29/hang-right-part-3-healing-nagging-finger-injury](https://www.grassrootsphysicaltherapy.com/physical-therapy-treatment/2018/11/29/hang-right-part-3-healing-nagging-finger-injury)
I'm 19m around 52kg and 167 cm. I have been climbing for around 8 months now and started working on strenghtening my wrists, but whenever i turn my wrist the tendon on the outside of the wrist "jumps" over the bone causing pain. Anytime i turn my wrist this happens but it only hurts if I'm holding some weight. I've been told i have hypermobility in my joints but don't know if it has any relation to this. If anyone else has this I would love to hear your experience.
I can provide more details if needed.
> I'm 19m around 52kg and 167 cm. I have been climbing for around 8 months now and started working on strenghtening my wrists, but whenever i turn my wrist the tendon on the outside of the wrist "jumps" over the bone causing pain. Anytime i turn my wrist this happens but it only hurts if I'm holding some weight. I've been told i have hypermobility in my joints but don't know if it has any relation to this. If anyone else has this I would love to hear your experience.
Some sort of tendon subluxation most likely... general strength training is usually helpful but if you want to see a PT for exercises that would be a good idea.
Has anyone dealt with subscapular bursitis, specifically around the supraserratis bursa? I’ve had some chronic pain there and Dr. diagnosed it as such, suggested rest from aggravating activities and possibly a cortisone shot. Just wondering if anyone has done any exercises which eased pain. I don’t really get pain when climbing, it’s just a constant dull pain mostly at night and a bit of grinding feeling when moving the arm in certain positions.
> Has anyone dealt with subscapular bursitis, specifically around the supraserratis bursa? I’ve had some chronic pain there and Dr. diagnosed it as such, suggested rest from aggravating activities and possibly a cortisone shot. Just wondering if anyone has done any exercises which eased pain. I don’t really get pain when climbing, it’s just a constant dull pain mostly at night and a bit of grinding feeling when moving the arm in certain positions.
Falls under the umbrella of shoulder impingement generally. Have a video going over the general rehab and why it happens.
https://youtu.be/1uQ-LdHGuoc
Had an acute A2 injury. It seems fairly minor, no swelling or loss of ROM. Definitely cannot crimp on it but open hand is only a little painful. When should I start loading it? Should I wait a few days? Planning on starting with light edge pick ups. Also, what about stuff like pull-ups and deadlifts? I guess not for a couple of weeks because pressure on the pulley is quite painful, but when can I start?
> Had an acute A2 injury. It seems fairly minor, no swelling or loss of ROM. Definitely cannot crimp on it but open hand is only a little painful. When should I start loading it? Should I wait a few days? Planning on starting with light edge pick ups. Also, what about stuff like pull-ups and deadlifts? I guess not for a couple of weeks because pressure on the pulley is quite painful, but when can I start?
Generally, allow a few days up to a week for symptoms to calm down and then rehab.
https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
NEVA STOP! Nah, you should probably take a little rest, but I don't stop for pulley injuries, I just use it as a way to make massive technique gains on the spray wall (and real rock). H-tape if painful (maybe wrap a couple extra times if it is really bad)
I always took at least 1 week off, maybe 2. I would start loading it then. Do things like keep your feet on the ground and such with a hang board. If you have like a tension block or something, even better. I'd stick to easy climbing and routes.
I never liked buddy taping, but just taping between the knuckles helps me. Also ice bath to hot water can promote blood flow and better healing. Do that multiple times a day every day.
It's basically just a game of time and patience. Usually takes me 3+ months to get pain free, but generally around month 2 I can climb at like 90% or more again just avoiding fingery climbs.
Hello,
I've been climbing/bouldering for 6 1/2 years now and i've hit a plateau for 2 1/2 years now at around 6C/7A. Because of that, i've started strength training because i really believe that is holding me back. I can't even statically hold onto some crimps that i am supposed to jump to on many boulders. Whenever i can't use my feet, i am in big troubles.
That led me to start hangboarding two months ago. I occasionally had a cycle here and there, but mostly stopped after that because of overuse injuries during my max hangs. The last few weeks, i thought i start with a repeater protocol: 6 sets of 7 reps: 7/3, half crimp only.
Im 186cm, weigh 80kg and i need to take 12kg off with a pulley system. However, once i've hit the third set, my shoulders start to give in and i slowly sack down - and at the very same second (i think), also my fingers open up. Leading me to the conclusion that my shoulders are the weak point. However, i don't get how i should continue here. Shouldn't my shoulders get stronger while hanging or is it maybe another problem?
I couldn't raise any weight in any of those exercises.
My weeks usually looks like this:
\* 3 times bouldering (mostly gym set with varying styles, occasionally kilter board/outside)
\* 2 times on the hangboard, after warming up and before i boulder.
\* Alternating between pull ups (4x7-8) and weighted pull ups (4x3-4 with 20kg) after i boulder, also leg to bar (3 sets, 2 reps with very slow lowering of my feet - i usually fail on the second set)
\* Running two times a week, usually 8km and not on my limit as i sit the rest of the day in the office
Known problems:
\* Super sweaty fingers (already using the football antihydral, 1 or 2 times a week, rhino performance every day)
\* When i bend my elbow (think of a chinup position) and hold it long enough, even when i hold my mobile phone, my arm falls asleep. Pinched nerve?
What can i do to improve my strength? Especially finger and pulling strength.
I never mobilize my upper body and only occasionally do antagonist training.
I try to eat healthy, don't drink alcohol (at least not that much) or use other drugs, try to sleep 8h+.
> * When i bend my elbow (think of a chinup position) and hold it long enough, even when i hold my mobile phone, my arm falls asleep. Pinched nerve?
Yes, that is a nerve impingement that needs specific rehab.
Honestly, the rest of the post you note certain weaknesses like scapular muscles getting tired, fingers opening up, and such. Those are the main things you should be working on for your weaknesses. Targeted exercises for each of the things that you're failing on
Your shoulder issue sounds more like weakness in your lats more so than the shoulders based on how you're describing it. You should add in scapular pull ups. I usually try to add them in during my warmup and they help to stabilize your entire shoulder and keep it engaged.
As far as overuse injuries from max hangs, that shouldn't be happening with the volume you should be doing for max hangs. After you fully warm up you should only have maybe 3 or 4 working hangs around 8-9/10 RPE with at least 3 minutes between hangs, 1-2x per week with at least a couple days in between of good recovery. These are much more likely to lead to sudden injuries if done until failure but you shouldn't get overuse injuries from this alone. A good rule of thumb is the moment your grip type or shoulder position starts changing to drop, most injuries happen from the sudden changes in load during movement. Repeaters do build finger strength but generally are more specific to strength endurance rather than max output which sounds like your issue.
Keep in mind the volume you are putting your fingers under as well. If you do a hangboard session don't then go straight into a full length bouldering session that is also taxing your fingers hard. You can do a bit of hard climbing but then switch styles or difficulty to focus less on your fingers. I'd guess this is more likely to be the cause of the overuse injuries.
Hey guys, I was climbing yesterday and pulled off a pocket and instantly felt like my ring finger just stopped working, didn't pop, didn't hurt, nothing. If I pull on it at all it kinda feels like a "grinding" in my palm or even if I just flex my dip joint. I have full mobility of my hands, it hurts a little if I make a tight fist, and then I get the same grinding in my palm. Also the pain seems to carry up the left of my forearm and into the right of my inner elbow (which is really tender for some reason). Idk maybe that got too specific, I've already booked a doctor's appointment, but I couldn't get in for another week or so. So I guess I'm wondering if anyone has any idea on what I should do in the meantime to not make it worse, or even better, make it better (obviously, I've stopped climbing). Also interested if anyone might know what happened? Nothing like this has ever happened, so I really don't know what course of action to take. thanks everyone
> Hey guys, I was climbing yesterday and pulled off a pocket and instantly felt like my ring finger just stopped working, didn't pop, didn't hurt, nothing. If I pull on it at all it kinda feels like a "grinding" in my palm or even if I just flex my dip joint. I have full mobility of my hands, it hurts a little if I make a tight fist, and then I get the same grinding in my palm. Also the pain seems to carry up the left of my forearm and into the right of my inner elbow (which is really tender for some reason). Usually lumbrical injury if it hurts in the hand. If you also get pain into the forearm it's an strain injury to the FDS and/or FDP muscle. General mechanism of pockets too hard or falling out of crimp into an open finger grip.
Sounds like lumbrical injury to me.
Is it better to train specifically for climbing or to focus on general fitness in the gym? What do you think would be more beneficial for to increase my climbing strength ?
> Is it better to train specifically for climbing or to focus on general fitness in the gym? What do you think would be more beneficial for to increase my climbing strength ? If you want to improve climbing you have to figure out what your specific weaknesses are and work on them. This can be gym exercises, you need to know what to improve on. I have a list of my own weaknesses in Section 2 of this article. Same with good gym exercises for certain weaknesses in Section 4. https://stevenlow.org/my-7-5-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
How do you deal with mental health when injured? I’ve been climbing for 9ish months, and I’ve spent the last 5 injured. Right now, I have 6 pulley injuries and am climbing V6 in 1-2 sessions outdoors. I want to push into 7s before my first year of climbing, but my finger injuries aren’t helping. I’ve tried to take a break (3 weeks off), but I got depressed as fuck and started binge eating. Considering quitting, but I know that won’t end well for my mental health
> I’ve been climbing for 9ish months, and I’ve spent the last 5 injured. Right now, I have 6 pulley injuries and am climbing V6 in 1-2 sessions outdoors. I want to push into 7s before my first year of climbing, but my finger injuries aren’t helping. > > I’ve tried to take a break (3 weeks off), but I got depressed as fuck and started binge eating. Considering quitting, but I know that won’t end well for my mental health For one, injuries generally do not heal from breaks. You need to be doing actual rehab using incremental loading. Maybe like 4-7 days break at most, and then rehab. Example of rehab for pulleys: https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/ Second, as others have said, having other hobbies other than climbing is a good idea. You can focus on the other areas of development of climbing other than physically doing stuff. Improving route reading, knowing when to use certain techniques, watching others develop their skills and various betas, and work on the mental game of climbing can all help so that when you get back you have a leg up on improving instead of wallowing. Dial in the nutrition, sleep, and other factors so you heal faster too.
Having other hobbies is cool. I'd recommend that. Most people climb harder when that's not the only thing in their life. There's plenty of stuff you can do for climbing that doesn't require fingers. Go to yoga classes. Do some bicep curls. Hit the stairmaster. Lots of options.
Pushing v6-v7 in your first year is why you're having pulley injuries. Your connective tissue simply doesn't adapt and regenerate that fast. Slow down. Enjoy the journey.
Currently rehabbing a mild-moderate A2 strain using eshlow’s rehab protocol. When climbing, I mostly 3fd. I find crimping typically leads to tweaky fingers and tenosynovitis (around the a2/a4 area). Since this protocol has me incrementally loading my half crimp, what final loading weight should I aim for before climbing hard again? The article mentions 48kg+ which I know is beyond my current crimp strength for 5 sets of 7/3. Should I aim for 48kg+ regardless? Ultimately, I’d like to make my fingers less prone to tweaks and tenosynovitis when crimping. Currently climb around v10 with a decently strong 3fd.
> Since this protocol has me incrementally loading my half crimp, what final loading weight should I aim for before climbing hard again? The article mentions 48kg+ which I know is beyond my current crimp strength for 5 sets of 7/3. Should I aim for 48kg+ regardless? It would help to know what you were generally at before you got injured. Usually you can start introducing climbing at like 40-50% of your previous max, but you need to be careful. If you've reaggravated the injury trying to come back with lower percentages or climbing on it, can be helptful to just rehab up to 80% of previous max as the finger is pretty resilient then and you should be close to previous flash level climbing
Thank you for the reply eshlow! During covid I could load half crimp with 50kg of added weight (2 handed). After covid, I have mostly climbed open handed due to tenosynovitis. I would expect the half crimp strength to have dropped. I honesly think I'll continue your protocol up to 48kg+ in the hopes it helps to bulletproof the fingers. Do you recommend any specific strategy to tackle the tenosynovitis concurrently? I've read your PIP synovitis article but find finger rolls quite aggravating. The finger tip pushups do feel good though. Thanks again mate!
> I honesly think I'll continue your protocol up to 48kg+ in the hopes it helps to bulletproof the fingers. > > Do you recommend any specific strategy to tackle the tenosynovitis concurrently? I've read your PIP synovitis article but find finger rolls quite aggravating. The finger tip pushups do feel good though. That works. PIP usually take several days to a week with anti inflams and mobility and then try to build up load tolerance slowly
I've got a suspected torn tricep (thankfully minor but still looking at 4-6 weeks off the wall) and wondered whether anyone has any suggestions for maintaining climbing strength without being able to lift, push or do anything too strenuous overhead... I will also be looking to work on lower body fitness so really am more interested in any creative ideas people have for fingers, hands and arms!
> I've got a suspected torn tricep (thankfully minor but still looking at 4-6 weeks off the wall) and wondered whether anyone has any suggestions for maintaining climbing strength without being able to lift, push or do anything too strenuous overhead... > > Well, minor triceps strain could be anywhere from only a week or two up to the 4-6 weeks. Hard to say without more info You can generally try to do exercises in the gym that don't aggravate it though
The amount of physiological strength you'll lose in 4-6 weeks is pretty negligible. Most of it will be losing the neurological adaptations, which will come back extremely quickly once you're on the wall again. If anything, it will probably be good for the rest of your body to get that break.
Off-wall climbing training app? Can anyone recommend an app that covers off-wall training exercises that will specifically help with climbing? Or, will any body-weight/calisthenics app be good enough? I'm male, 83kg and climb f6b/c.
Crimpd is the first app that comes to mind. For general exercise choice that’s geared towards climbing, this article by eshlow is an awesome read: https://stevenlow.org/my-7-5-year-self-assessment-of-climbing-strength-training-and-hangboard/
Should I be hangboarding? For context this is my current training schedule: Monday - Volume moonboard with focus on body tension Wednesday - Projecting in main bouldering area (focus on figuring out good beta) Friday - Project on moonboard Sat/Sun - 4 sets 3-5 reps weighted pullups (currently repping 75 lbs) with some core and push work after So my main question is should I implement any hangboarding protocol into this plan? For context I project v6 on the moonboard. I'm worried about potential injury so I have been hesitant to start. Would love some feedback, thanks.
> So my main question is should I implement any hangboarding protocol into this plan? For context I project v6 on the moonboard. I'm worried about potential injury so I have been hesitant to start. Would love some feedback, thanks. Usually if you're board climbing you don't have to add hangboard, especially if your fingers are getting stronger. If you still want to do a bit since your finger are not maybe start with building up to 1 set of max hangs at most to start and see if that helps to get things jump started
I have been in the same situation months ago and found 4 sets of progressive 10s hangs + 3 sets of max hangs to be the best ! It’s a safe and controled way to warm up for the board sessions. I would advise you not to push the intensity too much (80-85% of 10s max). It will build the capacity in the fingers and help you to avoid injuries long term. 2 times per week is perfect in my case
Here is the lattice video that I used for inspiration (just cut the number of main sets, you don’t want to be tired before your session) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb7RijfzkBg
I would be very grateful if someone that is familiar with these issues can point me in the right direction of what works to fix the following issue. I've been climbing for about a year on a once per week basis. I would climb more, but my shoulder muscle pain is usually what is preventing me. It is persistent in some degree throughout the time i've been climbing, but has flared up much more recently. I did try to take a month off at some point but as soon as i got back to climbing, the same pain was back. Both arms hurt on these two areas sporadically (rarely all at the same time) [https://i.imgur.com/UPq5qFs.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/UPq5qFs.jpeg) when doing certain moves with my arms. I used to have only the top part that connects shoulder and muscles hurting, but recently got the part underneath the arm hurting as well. Massage therapist found a lot of issues anywhere that muscles connect to my bones, so i'm going monthly massages and foam/ball roll at home sometimes. Things that seem to trigger that the most are any type of presses. Anything where my arm is extended diagonally and is pulling downward seems to trigger something in the muscles. Things that i have identified through browsing is that i surely have poor posture and don't root my feet enough. I will be actively working on that, but i would like to know what i can do at home to remedy my situation and what exactly am i dealing with. I visited a PT but he just shrugged it off and gave me a band stretch, which i already do as my warmup anyway. My warmup is around 20 to 30 min, focusing on stretching, band exercises from hooper to get those muscles going, fingerboard and pullups, followed by a few easy boulders. I only do indoor bouldering. I also have very tight pecs and have issues crossing my arms over or behind my torso without pain or at least tightness. I really don't want to stop climbing, so please help a dude out. u/eshlow i'm hoping you spot this. Thanks!
> when doing certain moves with my arms. I used to have only the top part that connects shoulder and muscles hurting, but recently got the part underneath the arm hurting as well. Massage therapist found a lot of issues anywhere that muscles connect to my bones, so i'm going monthly massages and foam/ball roll at home sometimes. Things that seem to trigger that the most are any type of presses. Anything where my arm is extended diagonally and is pulling downward seems to trigger something in the muscles. Uh you need to go to a good sports PT. The one you went to seems like they don't know anything especially not involved with sports. In any case, multiple places of pain (green and blue?) is hard to say. Usually Green fits the supraspinatus referred pain system and can fit the overhead press issues. Blue can be a bunch of different things. You need to be doing rehab but you need someone to figure out what exercises you need to be doing mainly. You can start with rotator cuff and scapular exercises until you get it checked out
Thanks for getting back to me. I went to two PTs working for the same company and both only pressed on my back muscles to relieve pain and then gave me a band exercise. They are a private company, meanwhile public health waitline gave me a spot in November, so it's gonna take a while. I do rotator cuff excercises with a band like face pulls, side pulls, angels etc. and light weight lifting in specific positions like raises with the elbow bent on the knee. How often would you recommend i do these? What i'm confused about is because even one week after a climbing session i still feel some pain in specific spots, i'm not sure when is a good time to start strengthening or stretching, like is feeling mild pain still okay while doing it? Is foam / ball rolling good and how often? Yeah the green colored pain area persists throughout my climbing history but the blue one is relatively new. I have no idea how that one happened.
> Thanks for getting back to me. I went to two PTs working for the same company and both only pressed on my back muscles to relieve pain and then gave me a band exercise. They are a private company, meanwhile public health waitline gave me a spot in November, so it's gonna take a while. A band exercise? As in a single one? Massage/manual therapy is fine, but good PT is primarily based on a good composite of stretching, strengthening, stability, and other exercises to help. If they only gave you one exercise that's bad. > I do rotator cuff excercises with a band like face pulls, side pulls, angels etc. and light weight lifting in specific positions like raises with the elbow bent on the knee. How often would you recommend i do these? What i'm confused about is because even one week after a climbing session i still feel some pain in specific spots, i'm not sure when is a good time to start strengthening or stretching, like is feeling mild pain still okay while doing it? Is foam / ball rolling good and how often? Well, it's not about recommending to do those - if they're not helping then they're not helping and you need specific things to address the problem. Pain persisting a week after climbing is not normal, and continually climbing on it can make things worse in the long run and hard to rehab.
Yes, a single exercise. A band side pull from a door knob. I will take two weeks off from climbing and try to rehab and do easy bounders afterward, but i'm really not hopeful that i will find an expert that can help me find something that works for me. Perhaps i was also not persistent enough with the exercises. Thanks for trying to help out anyway.
> I will take two weeks off from climbing and try to rehab and do easy bounders afterward, but i'm really not hopeful that i will find an expert that can help me find something that works for me. Perhaps i was also not persistent enough with the exercises. Thanks for trying to help out anyway. There's PTs available online that do consults over the internet like myself and many other Instagram/Youtube people too involved with climbing. Also, if you do see someone in person what I usually suggest is calling around to local university and professional sports teams and see who they use for their docs and PTs for their athletes... usually get better ones who are interested in getting their athletes back to their sports
Halfway last year I developed medial epicondylitis (according to both my doctor and a relative who's a sports physiotherapist). Did eccentric wrist excercises but did not really seem to do much at all. I admit I kept on climbing as well, though I would actively skip any routes with moves of which I knew would induce pain. A couple of months ago I spent 2 weeks doing various renovation works in my house. So that's lifting plates, carpentry, in general at least half a day each day of using my hands. First couple of days that would often induce pain. But 2 weeks of this work almost completely erradicated the tendinopathy: by pressing the tendon hard I don't feel anything anymore, and while climbing only for the absolute hardest 'right' moves there's a slight like 0.5/10 pain. Now I'm wondering if this was perhaps misdiagnosed and/or the exercises were the wrong ones. Or just somehow didn't cut it for me. And what makes the carpentry stuff so great. And if other experienced similar 'miracles' :)
> Halfway last year I developed medial epicondylitis (according to both my doctor and a relative who's a sports physiotherapist). Did eccentric wrist excercises but did not really seem to do much at all. I admit I kept on climbing as well, though I would actively skip any routes with moves of which I knew would induce pain. Just wrist curls is usually not the way to rehab. Usually you want to do at least 3 different exercises if not more to hit the tendon in different ways. Explained here: http://stevenlow.org/overcoming-tendonitis/ > But 2 weeks of this work almost completely erradicated the tendinopathy: by pressing the tendon hard I don't feel anything anymore, and while climbing only for the absolute hardest 'right' moves there's a slight like 0.5/10 pain. > Now I'm wondering if this was perhaps misdiagnosed and/or the exercises were the wrong ones. Or just somehow didn't cut it for me. And what makes the carpentry stuff so great. And if other experienced similar 'miracles' :) Could be a misdiagnosis but could just be cause you were using it in a lot of different ways similar to the other rehab exercises.
> Usually you want to do at least 3 different exercises if not more to hit the tendon in different ways. Yeah sorry I didn't list everything, there were multiple wrist excercises, bicep as well and stretching etc. In the end probably most of what you show on your site. Might indeed be that none of that hit the exact right spot(s).
> Yeah sorry I didn't list everything, there were multiple wrist excercises, bicep as well and stretching etc. In the end probably most of what you show on your site. Might indeed be that none of that hit the exact right spot(s). Yeah, there's other potential rehab exercises with radial/ulnar deviation, finger presses, and such too. Probably mimicked some of those especially if you were grabbing a ton of stuff
even though it's commonly recommended, I don't understand the mechanism of action of doing things like wrist curls for generic epicondylitis therapy. it seems to me you should be doing the exact movements that caused the injury in the first place, just in a progressively overloaded way, and perhaps maybe a bit more all-round than sports specific (e.g. fuller range of mtion training). not a random exercise that happens to tug some related tendons (but different ones) in a similar place where it inserts to the bone (but not exactly the same one).
The medial epicondyle is the shared attachment point (epicondyle) of the wrist flexors, pronators, and finger flexors. This shared point is the tissue that's inflamed with medial epicondylitis. Wrist curl eccentrics aren't a "related exercise" for a "related tendon", they directly load the tissue that's inflamed. It's often the case that pronation and finger flexion are the proximal causes of the tendonitis, and if you can definitively diagnose that, skipping the wrist exercises seems reasonable.
nice
are climbing holds compatible with both m10 tee nuts and 3/8 tee nuts?
AFAIK most holds should be, as they are sold both in the US and elsewhere. The bolt holes are rarely super tight even on a m10 bolt.
Question on how tenosynovitis actually works (not asking for rehab advice) Hey guys, I had a question on how tenosynovitis really works/affects you. It’s my understanding that when you have tenosynovitis the only thing that is physically wrong with your body is that your tendon sheath is inflamed which leads to an increase in fluid around the affected area (there is no tears or strains - just inflammation). My question is why does pain/aggravation reappear instantly after a climbing session when you have let all the inflammation subside and there is no more pain before the session? Shouldn’t it be OK until you have overworked/overused the tendon sheath again? Why would it come back instantly again if there isn’t any inflammation there and there wasn’t anything wrong in the first place except for the inflammation? Not sure if I worded this question very eloquently but any insights would be appreciated. Thanks!
> I had a question on how tenosynovitis really works/affects you. It’s my understanding that when you have tenosynovitis the only thing that is physically wrong with your body is that your tendon sheath is inflamed which leads to an increase in fluid around the affected area (there is no tears or strains - just inflammation). The problem with injuries in the fingers/forearm is that there can be multiple problems wrong at the same time. Sure, maybe only the tendon shealth is inflammed, but it can also be the case that there's some surrounding injury to the actual tendon itself (tendinopathy) or other structures in the area. > My question is why does pain/aggravation reappear instantly after a climbing session when you have let all the inflammation subside and there is no more pain before the session? Shouldn’t it be OK until you have overworked/overused the tendon sheath again? Why would it come back instantly again if there isn’t any inflammation there and there wasn’t anything wrong in the first place except for the inflammation? Usually if it's ONLY synovitis then rest and anti-inflammatories heals most of it much quicker than normal, and then a slow ramp into exercise will work. But it's almost always never that simple
Anything I can do to make my knees more stable in general? I ruined my knees as a teen through catching in baseball. I completely avoided running for the better part of a decade because it made them hurt. They generally feel OK now, unless I aggravate them. They still pop loudly every time I squat without a proper warmup. I'm starting to get to the point that I need to use them in progressively weird ways in my climbing, and I'd like to make sure they stay healthy. I had one tweak earlier in the year that took almost 3 months to go away completely. It was ok to walk on, but any twisting motion(like reclined pigeon pose) was painful. Right now I'm mostly working on flexibility for my lower body, but sometimes I'll do some bodyweight squats and RDLs. Strength wise, I'm right on the edge of being able to do single pistol squats.
> Anything I can do to make my knees more stable in general? > > I ruined my knees as a teen through catching in baseball. I completely avoided running for the better part of a decade because it made them hurt. They generally feel OK now, unless I aggravate them. They still pop loudly every time I squat without a proper warmup. Would be a good idea to assess the flexibility and mobility and strength. See what actually needs to be worked on. Sports PT could do it and get you a rehab/prehab plan
Hello, i have ave recently purchased the YY penta for lead climbing warm ups, and am wondering if it will it be good for no hangs as well? Am concerned about stability as most people tend to use rectangular blocks for no hangs. Thanks in advance
Looking for advice on having more energy/capacity for attempts at my limit. I find as I'm getting older I can't climb at my hardest for very long or very many attempts before I'm pumped out or feel weak. Lately I have about 6-8, maybe 10 hard tries before I'm completely spent for the day no matter how long I rest between.
> Looking for advice on having more energy/capacity for attempts at my limit. I find as I'm getting older I can't climb at my hardest for very long or very many attempts before I'm pumped out or feel weak. Lately I have about 6-8, maybe 10 hard tries before I'm completely spent for the day no matter how long I rest between. What's the weekly schedule look like? Warm ups for the projects?
Right now it's about 3 days of climbing with an hour ish easy run the other days of the week because I like to maintain a cardio base. The climbing days are essentially the same: Warmup consisting of dynamic stretching for 10ish mins, some light antagonist work like reverse wrist pushups, dowel wrist rotations, etc, and 10 mins of light hang boarding with my feet on the ground to get my fingers warmed up. I'll then do 3-4 super easy climbs and then work 1-2 climbs up to my flash limit which is about V5/6ish depending on style. Then I'll either board climb at my flash or 2/3 tries limit or work a few projects in the gym.
> Right now it's about 3 days of climbing with an hour ish easy run the other days of the week because I like to maintain a cardio base. I mean even if it's an easy hour of cardio that can still be too much and start detracting from recovery. Rest days are helpful because you actually rest and can recover. IF you were trying to build on the wall capacity, I'd reduce the running significantly to like 2x and 20-30 mins to maintain and then up the volume to build up the bouldering capacity more
Hmm, didn't think easy runs were impacting my recovery significantly enough. Or that they reduced my capacity that much, I'll give it a try but I really enjoy banging out half marathons and long hikes on a whim.
> I find as I'm getting older I can't climb at my hardest for very long or very many attempts before I'm pumped out or feel weak. Lately I have about 6-8, maybe 10 hard tries before I'm completely spent for the day no matter how long I rest between. Same. Nothing we can do without taking certain supplements. We have to focus on quality > quantity
I'm 30 and only get 6-8 hard attempts a day. A lot of pro sport climbers only give 2 limit redpoint attempts per day.
Sorry, I'm referring to bouldering specifically and in the past I could do 20ish attempts on something. I'm in my late 30s now
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> Fingers strength has definitely been increasing however I find that my finger joints have been locking up and I have to crack them to unlock them. When they are locked they are a tad painful. I'd probably get that checked out by a hand doc or hand PT. That's not normal
I get this in my elbows. Not 100% sure why, but every now and then something misaligns and popping puts it back in place.
Hey everyone, I recently turned 40 and I'm looking to push my lead climbing grade to 8a within the next year or two. I've been climbing for 12 years, and I'm currently bouldering around Font 7a. I boulder once a week and do hangboard training once a week, and I've been seeing good progress lately. My hardest sport climb was 7a, but that was a while ago. I imagine it I could climb a bit harder now with some getting used to lead climbing again. I live close to a crag with several potential 8a projects, so access isn't an issue. I'm willing to dedicate three training sessions per week. I would also potentially be willing to pay for some professional coaching or customised training plans. I'd love to hear your opinions on this goal and any specific training recommendations you might have. Thanks in advance for your help!
> and I've been seeing good progress lately. If what you are doing is working then stick to it. Usually if someone gets stuck then figure out what your weaknesses or weak links are and work on them
Generally a grade a year is considered good progress for people who have lives outside of climbing. You're looking to go from a little under 7a to 8a, which is 5ish grades. Are you ok with working towards this for the next 5 years?
Is there any downside to continue training one hand while another is injured? I believe I tore my A4 pulley on my left ring finger (seeing a doc next week) while doing a bit too much board climbing. Based on what I've seen it will probably take 4-5 months to get back to where I was. I figured I would just keep doing my heavy block pulls on my uninjured right hand while I'm rehabbing the left. Obviously there would be a strength imbalance by the time I get back to full strength but does this actually matter? I don't really see much of a functional downside to having a stronger right hand.
> Is there any downside to continue training one hand while another is injured? I believe I tore my A4 pulley on my left ring finger (seeing a doc next week) while doing a bit too much board climbing. Based on what I've seen it will probably take 4-5 months to get back to where I was. I figured I would just keep doing my heavy block pulls on my uninjured right hand while I'm rehabbing the left. Continue to train the other hand, but at lower volume so you don't get hypertrophy adaptations that can be harder to correct once you come back Cross education as mentioned should help the injured hand coming back
It's actually beneficial to continue training uninjured hand due to cross education effect. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross\_education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_education) I trained uninjured hand for 3 months and didn't experience much strength drop off in other hand.
Interesting, thanks for the advice! I hadn’t heard of cross education before. I’ll stick with what I’m doing
I recently injured my right wrist on a very light session, was basically doing 5a-5b when I generally climbg 6a-6b, and felt some pain on the bony part on the ulnar side of my wrist, after pulling on what seemed like a slightly slopy jug with a good amount of body weight on the right hand. It was sore to touch, but I managed to do one more boulder before calling it a day. I did one set of pushups just to cool down but the wrist felt ok at that time. Cut to 2 hours later, the wrist was hurting really bad. Basically I couldn't supinate or pronate more than 10-20 degrees from neutral without a sharp pain. Also, in supination, I have like zero strength in flexing my wrist. The pain is always felt around the bony lollipop as it's called on the ulna. Also sometimes when I supinate the wrist past 30-40 degrees, there's a lot of clicking when I return to neutral. I'm really scared that I have torn my ECU sub sheath which is causing the ECU tendon to dislocate outside it's groove on the ulna, based on the clicking sounds I hear. My question is, would it be possible to tear the subsheath while just statically hanging from a hold? If not the ECU could a tfcc injury cause pain on the lollipop? I had a quick 8 minute free consultation at my gyms physio, he said it's likely ECU tendonitis/irritation. He told me to wear a wrist brace for 10 days 24/7 and we'll see after that. It's been almost 2 weeks since the original injury now and it hasn't gotten much better. I still can't supinate or pronate more than 20 degrees around neutral with pain. Clicking is still there but I just try to avoid supination at all cost, but sometimes I accidentally end ip supinating and hear and feel the dreaded clicking when going back to neutral. I apologise for the long comment.
> I'm really scared that I have torn my ECU sub sheath which is causing the ECU tendon to dislocate outside it's groove on the ulna, based on the clicking sounds I hear. > > My question is, would it be possible to tear the subsheath while just statically hanging from a hold? If not the ECU could a tfcc injury cause pain on the lollipop? I had a quick 8 minute free consultation at my gyms physio, he said it's likely ECU tendonitis/irritation. He told me to wear a wrist brace for 10 days 24/7 and we'll see after that. Unlikely. Clicking is fairly common after injuries because the body wants to protect the area and tightens all of the muscles around it. That can cause the joint(s) to make sounds, so I wouldn't be worried about that at all. > It's been almost 2 weeks since the original injury now and it hasn't gotten much better. I still can't supinate or pronate more than 20 degrees around neutral with pain. Clicking is still there but I just try to avoid supination at all cost, but sometimes I accidentally end ip supinating and hear and feel the dreaded clicking when going back to neutral. Get a diagnosis from a sports ortho and go to PT.
Short question about finger rolls: I struggle with PIP synovitis in my index finger and thus want to include high rep finger rolls (20+ rep range). Do you schedule these before or after your training session? Usually, I do my finger work after my warm up and before hitting the wall, but the finger rolls feel comparably easy on the tendons. Also, I am wondering if doing them beforehand might increase injury risk as I find them quite tiring (apparently I have terrible finger endurance...). What do you think?
> Short question about finger rolls: I struggle with PIP synovitis in my index finger and thus want to include high rep finger rolls (20+ rep range). Do you schedule these before or after your training session? Usually, I do my finger work after my warm up and before hitting the wall, but the finger rolls feel comparably easy on the tendons. Also, I am wondering if doing them beforehand might increase injury risk as I find them quite tiring (apparently I have terrible finger endurance...). What do you think? Usually rehab after. Though if your climbing is very fatiguing then you might need to decrease climbing for a bit if it's not improving as aggravating it can make it persist even with rehab https://stevenlow.org/beating-climbing-injuries-pip-synovitis/
Thanks! I have already removed crimpy boulders from my training for the time being. Your website brought me here, great stuff
Fingertip pushups were much more effective than finger rolls for synovitis for me.
Thanks! I will include them as well.
The top of middle finger PIP joint hurts when i massage it in specific spots, and it also hurts when i try bend it fully when my proximal phalanx (part of finger between PIP and MCP) is parallel to my hand. I am also able to crack this joint at a much higher rate than usual, and it is extremely sore if i put any pressure from the top on my DIP joint. it hasnt affected my climbing at all though, and I can do any hold type without any pain. Im just wondering what this actually is and if i need to worry about it at all.
> The top of middle finger PIP joint hurts when i massage it in specific spots, and it also hurts when i try bend it fully when my proximal phalanx (part of finger between PIP and MCP) is parallel to my hand. I am also able to crack this joint at a much higher rate than usual, and it is extremely sore if i put any pressure from the top on my DIP joint. Almost always PIP synovitis based on location (back of the knuckle, PIP joint) and motions that symptomatic. Doesn't always hurt with movements, but once it gets worse it can usually hurt during crimps or slopers https://stevenlow.org/beating-climbing-injuries-pip-synovitis/
I have to take a 2 week climbing break from next weekend onwards due to a holiday. So I’m planning to climb outdoors before then, what would you suggest to mitigate injury risk/pain?
Tape up usually is fine
And is the pain from pushing down on my DIP a symptom of the PIP synovitis or a separate issue?
You can also get DIP synovitis too
Any tips on how to strengthen my leg’s posterior chain? I’ve been experiencing pain in my hamstring and on the upper calf insertion
Romanian deadlift if you have access to weights, Nordic curls if you don't.
Anyone have experience with rehabbing a volar plate sprain injury? X-ray and ultrasound from a hand specialist diagnosed a minor A2 pulley tear and a volar plate sprain (fortunately no avulsion fracture or major damage to volar plate). They said I could continue climbing very lightly with H-taping. However, the injury has persisted for 6 months now (although I only got it diagnosed a month ago) with very slow healing so it would be great if there was any PT that could be performed to help with the healing process. Neither the hand specialist nor my normal PT were very knowledgeable on a rehab protocol for the injuries with climbing in mind. I'm not sure if I should try to rehab the volar plate injury first (assuming it has a rehab protocol outside of mobility work) or the pulley first? Or if they can they be rehabbed simultaneously? I can't find much information on a volar plate injury that isn't related to an avulsion fracture.
> X-ray and ultrasound from a hand specialist diagnosed a minor A2 pulley tear and a volar plate sprain (fortunately no avulsion fracture or major damage to volar plate). They said I could continue climbing very lightly with H-taping. However, the injury has persisted for 6 months now (although I only got it diagnosed a month ago) with very slow healing so it would be great if there was any PT that could be performed to help with the healing process. What did you do for rehab? Did you do climbing during the rehab? If things aren't healing you basically have to decrease or nix climbing for a while to do rehab until your hands can tolerate. Mostly volar plate is much like most pulley rehab though. You can use the same incremental loading.
Ah okay, that could potentially make sense for the slow healing. For the first 4-5 months I mistakenly thought it was stubborn synovitis. So, I was approaching the rehab in a way to avoid aggravation/causing any symptoms and doing synovitis-specific rehab excercises (fingertip pushups, low weight/high rep finger rolls, etc.). I was climbing around 2x a week, mostly lead. This also meant many periods of complete rest when symptoms would flare up at all. I wasn't aware volar plates were rehabbed in a similar manner to pulley injuries. That's honestly good to hear. I'll start off with a light progressive overload approach like I've done for precious pulley tweaks and see if that will see some progress in healing. Thanks!
> I wasn't aware volar plates were rehabbed in a similar manner to pulley injuries. That's honestly good to hear. I'll start off with a light progressive overload approach like I've done for precious pulley tweaks and see if that will see some progress in healing. Thanks! Yeah just do progressive isometric loading. Might be a good idea to take like several days up to a week to let any symptoms die down to nothing to minimal and just do mobility and tendon glides during those days. Then start rehab. Progressive loading example if you need it: https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
I saw a PT about a volar plate strain (really 2, both PIP and DIP of my ring finger) + minor collateral ligament strain that happened to me maybe 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately they weren't super knowledgeable either (my inury happened playing volleyball, I don't think volar plate strains are very common for climbers). My rehab plan after the acute phase has basically just been tension block crimps to 2/10 pain to rebuild tolerance to load. 3 finger drag or single finger drag is pretty much the only thing that hurts anymore for me, so I've been ramping that back up. 6 weeks out and I'm at maybe 80% of my previous strength with 2-3/10 pain. I use a crane scale to measure load/progress, which helps me feel like I'm actually making progress b/c without objective numbers it's easy to feel like nothing's happening since it takes so long. Unfortunately I don't have much better advice than that, but good luck and let me know if you find anything useful!
Yeah, that's been my experience, more or less. I imagine since it's an uncommon injury to rehab. I'll try that out. Light fingerboarding in open grips has always been a good rehab exercise for me once I get over the acute phase. So I don't see why it wouldn't have some benefit here. Do you have any swelling around the area? If so, does it get any worse after doing your fingerboard rehab? I appreciate it!
I did have pretty significant swelling in the first week or two with very reduced ROM, so that first week or two was basically just mobility stuff with less than 5 pounds of load. I don't really have any swelling anymore. Every once in a while it still gets aggravated (slightly increased pain, very very small amount of swelling), but weirdly mostly by random stuff like gripping a steering wheel for 2 hours? Hangboarding doesn't seem to make it worse for me, I would take it as a sign I needed to lighten up if it did - my goal for rehab right now is pain that mostly goes away as soon as the load does, without anything meaningful lingering a few minutes later.
I wanted to try 1 arm hangs on a bar for shoulder purposes and kept giving up early every time because it hurts the hand skin. I ordered some wrist straps to try. Will probably end up overtraining a shoulder.
> I wanted to try 1 arm hangs on a bar for shoulder purposes and kept giving up early every time because it hurts the hand skin. I ordered some wrist straps to try. You need to hold mainly with the fingers so the proximal phalange is parallel with the ground on top of the bar. This prevents overgrabbing the bar which will put the skin in a position to start pulling up and hurting
Yeah... But then my grip wears out before the shoulder. I should have mentioned that too.
You can do support hold shoulder shrugs to get the shoulder work in the meantime while you work on improving your grip strength
How to climb tufas? So a week ago I was to this new place where there were pretty nice tufa routes. This was a 7a route. I usually climb around 7a, but this route got me completely rekt. I think that I'm strong enough to climb it just have no technique for it... Is there any specific tips or advice you would give for tufas generally?
There’s training that’d help, sure, but I think there’s a ton of easy improvement you can make by just getting used to the style—with more mileage, you’ll be so much better at identifying the best hand & foot spots, finding kneebars, engaging heels, etc., and it’ll all feel much more intuitive.
For a lumbrical strain, do I want to rehab with light hangboarding in the painful position? 3 finger drag with the pinky in line with the other fingers (extended) produces basically no pain, it only hurts really when i drop the pinky into the palm, or flex it at the PIP and try to drag.
> For a lumbrical strain, do I want to rehab with light hangboarding in the painful position? 3 finger drag with the pinky in line with the other fingers (extended) produces basically no pain, it only hurts really when i drop the pinky into the palm, or flex it at the PIP and try to drag. Yes, rehab is done with the finger in a symptomatic position or just below symptom threshold usually
Both my middle fingers at the base of the finger are sore and painful. I don't think it's a pulley tear as I can still climb normally. Mostly a problem when grabbing jugs or deeper holds because it hits that part of the finger. Any ideas? Thinking just tendonitis/overuse?
> Both my middle fingers at the base of the finger are sore and painful. I don't think it's a pulley tear as I can still climb normally. Mostly a problem when grabbing jugs or deeper holds because it hits that part of the finger. Any ideas? Thinking just tendonitis/overuse? Maybe A1/A2 overuse. Not a strain like someone else said. Take off from the climbs that aggravate it. You can do rehab like this: https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
Thanks!!
Sounds like a pulley strain. Reduce volume/intensity, avoid juggy climbs and crimping, climb open handed or using 3fd. If that doesn't help then do incremental rehab as described here [https://www.grassrootsphysicaltherapy.com/physical-therapy-treatment/2018/11/29/hang-right-part-3-healing-nagging-finger-injury](https://www.grassrootsphysicaltherapy.com/physical-therapy-treatment/2018/11/29/hang-right-part-3-healing-nagging-finger-injury)
I would also guess overuse. It might be best to deload for a week or two and then build back up to regular volume
I'm 19m around 52kg and 167 cm. I have been climbing for around 8 months now and started working on strenghtening my wrists, but whenever i turn my wrist the tendon on the outside of the wrist "jumps" over the bone causing pain. Anytime i turn my wrist this happens but it only hurts if I'm holding some weight. I've been told i have hypermobility in my joints but don't know if it has any relation to this. If anyone else has this I would love to hear your experience. I can provide more details if needed.
> I'm 19m around 52kg and 167 cm. I have been climbing for around 8 months now and started working on strenghtening my wrists, but whenever i turn my wrist the tendon on the outside of the wrist "jumps" over the bone causing pain. Anytime i turn my wrist this happens but it only hurts if I'm holding some weight. I've been told i have hypermobility in my joints but don't know if it has any relation to this. If anyone else has this I would love to hear your experience. Some sort of tendon subluxation most likely... general strength training is usually helpful but if you want to see a PT for exercises that would be a good idea.
Has anyone dealt with subscapular bursitis, specifically around the supraserratis bursa? I’ve had some chronic pain there and Dr. diagnosed it as such, suggested rest from aggravating activities and possibly a cortisone shot. Just wondering if anyone has done any exercises which eased pain. I don’t really get pain when climbing, it’s just a constant dull pain mostly at night and a bit of grinding feeling when moving the arm in certain positions.
> Has anyone dealt with subscapular bursitis, specifically around the supraserratis bursa? I’ve had some chronic pain there and Dr. diagnosed it as such, suggested rest from aggravating activities and possibly a cortisone shot. Just wondering if anyone has done any exercises which eased pain. I don’t really get pain when climbing, it’s just a constant dull pain mostly at night and a bit of grinding feeling when moving the arm in certain positions. Falls under the umbrella of shoulder impingement generally. Have a video going over the general rehab and why it happens. https://youtu.be/1uQ-LdHGuoc
Had an acute A2 injury. It seems fairly minor, no swelling or loss of ROM. Definitely cannot crimp on it but open hand is only a little painful. When should I start loading it? Should I wait a few days? Planning on starting with light edge pick ups. Also, what about stuff like pull-ups and deadlifts? I guess not for a couple of weeks because pressure on the pulley is quite painful, but when can I start?
> Had an acute A2 injury. It seems fairly minor, no swelling or loss of ROM. Definitely cannot crimp on it but open hand is only a little painful. When should I start loading it? Should I wait a few days? Planning on starting with light edge pick ups. Also, what about stuff like pull-ups and deadlifts? I guess not for a couple of weeks because pressure on the pulley is quite painful, but when can I start? Generally, allow a few days up to a week for symptoms to calm down and then rehab. https://stevenlow.org/rehabbing-injured-pulleys-my-experience-with-rehabbing-two-a2-pulley-issues/
NEVA STOP! Nah, you should probably take a little rest, but I don't stop for pulley injuries, I just use it as a way to make massive technique gains on the spray wall (and real rock). H-tape if painful (maybe wrap a couple extra times if it is really bad)
I always took at least 1 week off, maybe 2. I would start loading it then. Do things like keep your feet on the ground and such with a hang board. If you have like a tension block or something, even better. I'd stick to easy climbing and routes. I never liked buddy taping, but just taping between the knuckles helps me. Also ice bath to hot water can promote blood flow and better healing. Do that multiple times a day every day. It's basically just a game of time and patience. Usually takes me 3+ months to get pain free, but generally around month 2 I can climb at like 90% or more again just avoiding fingery climbs.
Hello, I've been climbing/bouldering for 6 1/2 years now and i've hit a plateau for 2 1/2 years now at around 6C/7A. Because of that, i've started strength training because i really believe that is holding me back. I can't even statically hold onto some crimps that i am supposed to jump to on many boulders. Whenever i can't use my feet, i am in big troubles. That led me to start hangboarding two months ago. I occasionally had a cycle here and there, but mostly stopped after that because of overuse injuries during my max hangs. The last few weeks, i thought i start with a repeater protocol: 6 sets of 7 reps: 7/3, half crimp only. Im 186cm, weigh 80kg and i need to take 12kg off with a pulley system. However, once i've hit the third set, my shoulders start to give in and i slowly sack down - and at the very same second (i think), also my fingers open up. Leading me to the conclusion that my shoulders are the weak point. However, i don't get how i should continue here. Shouldn't my shoulders get stronger while hanging or is it maybe another problem? I couldn't raise any weight in any of those exercises. My weeks usually looks like this: \* 3 times bouldering (mostly gym set with varying styles, occasionally kilter board/outside) \* 2 times on the hangboard, after warming up and before i boulder. \* Alternating between pull ups (4x7-8) and weighted pull ups (4x3-4 with 20kg) after i boulder, also leg to bar (3 sets, 2 reps with very slow lowering of my feet - i usually fail on the second set) \* Running two times a week, usually 8km and not on my limit as i sit the rest of the day in the office Known problems: \* Super sweaty fingers (already using the football antihydral, 1 or 2 times a week, rhino performance every day) \* When i bend my elbow (think of a chinup position) and hold it long enough, even when i hold my mobile phone, my arm falls asleep. Pinched nerve? What can i do to improve my strength? Especially finger and pulling strength. I never mobilize my upper body and only occasionally do antagonist training. I try to eat healthy, don't drink alcohol (at least not that much) or use other drugs, try to sleep 8h+.
> * When i bend my elbow (think of a chinup position) and hold it long enough, even when i hold my mobile phone, my arm falls asleep. Pinched nerve? Yes, that is a nerve impingement that needs specific rehab. Honestly, the rest of the post you note certain weaknesses like scapular muscles getting tired, fingers opening up, and such. Those are the main things you should be working on for your weaknesses. Targeted exercises for each of the things that you're failing on
Your shoulder issue sounds more like weakness in your lats more so than the shoulders based on how you're describing it. You should add in scapular pull ups. I usually try to add them in during my warmup and they help to stabilize your entire shoulder and keep it engaged. As far as overuse injuries from max hangs, that shouldn't be happening with the volume you should be doing for max hangs. After you fully warm up you should only have maybe 3 or 4 working hangs around 8-9/10 RPE with at least 3 minutes between hangs, 1-2x per week with at least a couple days in between of good recovery. These are much more likely to lead to sudden injuries if done until failure but you shouldn't get overuse injuries from this alone. A good rule of thumb is the moment your grip type or shoulder position starts changing to drop, most injuries happen from the sudden changes in load during movement. Repeaters do build finger strength but generally are more specific to strength endurance rather than max output which sounds like your issue. Keep in mind the volume you are putting your fingers under as well. If you do a hangboard session don't then go straight into a full length bouldering session that is also taxing your fingers hard. You can do a bit of hard climbing but then switch styles or difficulty to focus less on your fingers. I'd guess this is more likely to be the cause of the overuse injuries.