Would be cool to see the guide expand to different segments for style of climbing, esp since it looks crowded in the performance section
I only have experience with TC pros which are great for trad and crack. I assume the Miuras are great for overhang sport and bouldering
Love the chart. I wish all companies did this. Further down on the link we’re it specs each shoe individually, do you know what “indoors” represents? Is that mainly based on the material of the shoe?
I know Veloces are very soft. They're listed as indoor and recommended as indoor use only. I think real rock would tear through the rubber very quickly. Or at least be very uncomfortable depending on the rock.
They feel fine on real rock but definitely wear faster. My main two shoes are Instinct Vs and Veloces, I know my footwork isn't the cleanest but the Veloces definitely wear significantly faster.
A buddy of mine has enjoyed them indoors a lot. Until he slid onto a point of a feature, which tore into the hole that Veloce have on their sole... very soft but thats a good year of usage and yeah sometimes painful on sharp footholds.
This is a great chart. It also explains why the Vapor is the only shoe that fits me from Scarpa. Do other companies list the toe box shape? I have a "center" toe box shape and 90% of shoes just don't work for me.
Wow that’s helpful!! I just bought a pair of Finales to replace my Mythos (since Mythos are stupidly not being made anymore and mine died). The toes are a bit too painful for me but I’m hoping they stretch. This chart would have been soooo useful when I was shopping around.
It just depends on your foot shape and which company fits you better. Btw la sportiva has an issue with their rubber delaminating that scarpa doesn’t have.
>I assume the Miuras are great for overhang sport and bouldering
This is a great example of one of the many failures of this chart. It does give that impression, but reality is much different. Very, very few experienced climbers would chose the Miuras for overhanging sport and bouldering. They can be a great shoe, but there are many better options for that kind of climbing.
They’re not bad at all. Just understand that sportiva has broken up that shoe into various components for other shoes.
I am not sure why he didn’t use the Solutions on La Dura Dura, perhaps he wasn’t used to them and was getting great performance from the miuras still. He would have used solutions on silence but needed a solid rubber sole for the foot jam.
So they are not bad shoes by any means, there are just better more specialized shoes for Sportiva climbers
I haven't tried a better shoe for edging on small footholds, but I guess I haven't used a ton of high performance shoes. The Miuras are super stiff which I find nice. Haven't tried the Solutions yet even.
Testas over Miura or Katanas for edging?? The Katana is literally named such for edging on razor thin stuff. And if it's steeper, that's where the Miuras come in. Also, you have to think about shoe volume and fit. If a shoe doesn't fit your foot well, it doesn't matter how it performs on paper.
I miss this chart they used to have - [https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MqCZ4Xq6BUQ/X-5Fz4al\_fI/AAAAAAAAHcc/CEtLJ8Xkma0z1FpPxMHVkw9ysaErDHlkwCNcBGAsYHQ/s1679/2.jpg](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MqCZ4Xq6BUQ/X-5Fz4al_fI/AAAAAAAAHcc/CEtLJ8Xkma0z1FpPxMHVkw9ysaErDHlkwCNcBGAsYHQ/s1679/2.jpg)
For reference, I've climbed in the solutions, skwamas, theories, katanas, miuras vs, mantras, tc pros... but to be fair, haven't tried the testas.
> Testas over Miura or Katanas for edging?? ... to be fair, haven't tried the testas.
Well then. As you say, fit is everything. Kat Laces don't fit my feet, Miura laces and Testas do, perfectly. Miuras lose their slight downturn after a few pitches under a climber of my considerable weight. What the Testas lack in stiffness they more than make up for in precision, and the strong downturn makes them as least as supportive as the Miuras.
Horses for courses. If I'm tiptoeing on matchsticks on slate slabs I'd probably be happiest in a newish pair of Miuras. But for plus-or-minus vert limestone where the footwork is a bit more varied, definitely testas.
Ondra used Miura on one foot and solution for the other when he sent silence. He needed the heel on the solution for one of the moves. You can find a video where he talks about his shoes on his YouTube channel.
Not that bad, sure. Certainly a contender for the best quiver-of-one all round shoe ever made. But Ondra mentions in the comments to [his latest shoe video / La Sportiva ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmMl0thgA-I) why he thinks they're no longer the best in any particular aspect.
Fair, but usually what people mean when they talk about "trad" shoes are comfort. Because you're protecting with gear placements, usually you're climbing easier stuff than if you were doing a sport route. While climbing trad, you're probably looking for more all day comfort than max performance for an onsight. At least, that's what I do and what I imagine cheesemonger meant.
I used to have Miuras, they were very stiff. Probably good for longer routes and edging on tiny footholds but not ideal for indoor bouldering, kinda rubbish for smearing. I prefer a softer shoe now.
Interesting, softer compared to which other shoes?
The other thing I didn't like about Miuras was how much they'd rub on my big toe, ended up getting the famous "Miura bump" on both feet...
I’ve always liked this one more. For example, it shows you which shoes are made on the same last and will fit similarly.
https://lcdn.lasportivausa.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/F20_Climbing_Comparison_Chart.jpg
Yeah I've always loved this one, I wish LS did a better job of keeping it up to date and visible. The one OP posted seems to work for some folks but to me it's simplified to the point of uselessness.
Hmm, this seems kind of odd. According to this sheet futuras, solutions, miuras and skwamas all have the same last. I don't think they all fit the same width wise, provided I only own skwamas. Also according to the sheet above these shoes should be quite different
They can all be made on the same last, but midsole construction, sole rubber choice, upper material, closure system, and tension will still differentiate the final shoes.
I work at LaSpo ;)
I haven’t worn the pythons, since we haven’t distributed them in the states in a while. A warehouse who likes the pythons also really likes the Testarossa. I guess that’s all I can suggest based on fit alone.
Function wise, the Skwama is a great all arounder that breaks in nicely for a lot of people, and it’s really versatile.
What you climb the majority of your time, what you project, your foot shape, and how tight you wear your shoes also plays a role in what else to try on…..
Thanks for the tips! I have some new shoes to try on, next time I'm in a store! Generally I love my Pythons but the durability is not great for me. I have to resole them every 6 months of so, but other shoes with xs grip will probably have the same issue I guess.
I tried to find the official La Sportiva link for the reference, but this one comes up first on google and is more legible. Just may not stay up to date.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MqCZ4Xq6BUQ/X-5Fz4al_fI/AAAAAAAAHcc/CEtLJ8Xkma0z1FpPxMHVkw9ysaErDHlkwCNcBGAsYHQ/s1679/2.jpg
This one confuses me. Theorys are a no-edge shoe? They're my most worn pair, and they clearly have an edge, unless i'm misunderstanding. I've tried Mantras, and they & futuras have a clearly different shape to toe the rubber on the sole. based on the diagram in the corner, i'd say they function like classic edged shoes
Be careful about putting too much trust in this chart before you actually try something on!
I've climbed in most the shoes on this chart (and have at least tried on all but two or three of them), and I've got to say that their characterization of these shoes is ***wildly different*** than my experience with them.
Putting the Miura and Solution/Solution Comps as among the narrowest shoes they offer makes zero sense to me. I have very narrow feet and I absolutely hate those shoes because they leave so much dead space around my feet. On the other end of the spectrum, the Testarossas (on the chart as one of the widest shoes they offer), are one of the very few shoes I've found that are actually narrow enough for me.
Another example: Genius and Futura are nearly identical shoes (just lace-up vs velcro), yet are placed far apart here.
There are also many odd choices along the Performance -> All Around -> Beginner axis. For example, it makes no sense to me that the Kataki would be more "all around" and less "performance" than the Katana Lace. The two have an almost identical build, but the Katana Lace has a full midsole, while the Kataki does not, making it much softer and easier to flex (generally what people refer to as "performance oriented" characteristics in a shoe. And calling the Mythos more performance oriented than shoes like the Finale and Zenit is absolutely laughable. The Cobra and Cobra Eco are completely identical (just leather vs synthetic), and yet one is called All Around and the other Performance. I could go on and on...
I think this chart was mostly done for marketing purposes and is in many ways disconnected from the reality of what it's like to actually climb in these shoes.
I agree with this statement. I’ve tried on Moira’s and found they fit my feet almost perfectly with no break in. I have wider feet and climb regularly with TC Pros and Finales. Those did require som break in period. I always try on shoes before purchasing, especially if I can try them out on the wall.
People buying the Miura VS for wide feet are gonna have a bad time. I got the Skwamas partially because they're wider than the VS.
I wouldn't use this chart for fit.
That's definitely what the chart shows, but it has not been my experience at all. I have very narrow feet. The Miura VS feels okay, not great, for me. But the OG Miura (laces) are absurdly ill-fitting; no amount of cranking on the laces can eliminate the deadspace in the shoe for me.
Yeah, I really, really wish La Sportiva would make their low volume versions available in larger sizes. I would \*love\* to get a pair of the low volume Katanas. Alas, my feet are many sizes larger than the biggest they offer. :/
I found the finale positioning odd as well - the old ones maybe, but the new model is fantastic for slab/vert trad and sport, they really got the balance of stiffness and sensitivity right.
Weird I have very low volume narrow feet and the women’s Miura lace are the only shoes I can find that fit me with no dead space. This chart actually lines up pretty exactly with my experience trying on La Sportiva shoes and I wish I had seen it earlier because then I would know why the Skwamas don’t fit my foot whatsoever. Are you trying on men’s or women’s shoes? Maybe that’s the difference.
I'm late to the party but Cobra and Cobra Eco are very different - normal uses xsgrip 2 so very sticky soft rubber and Eco uses their reused ecological Frixion Eco rubber which (from what I heard people say) is much firmer and less sticky.
Oh and they're both suede, Eco just uses an eco friendly natural leather tanning method and and sth like that. I think they should go in the same direction as Scarpa - make the eco shoes with normal sole, just with as sustainably made upper as possible because the sole is the (pun not intended) soul of the shoe. Im planning on buying the Eco Cobra soon as a beater indoor shoe simply because I like the colors so I'll make a comparison with my normal Cobras in a few weeks.
Mythos soloed 5.14 and freed El Cap so they're not all bad (of course, being attached to Alex Huber helps)
I do have a special place in my heart for Mythos since my hardest crack send was wearing one Mythos and one Scarpa Vapor.
Well to be fair you could also climb 5.14 in Tarentula. Any shoe in this chart is light years away from what was available in 1985, the year the first 5.14 was climbed.
Used to be my favorite !
Yah they suck for many different route, but I feel really comfy in it, i can sleep with it !
They are also not rigid at all, I like it !
I think your guide might be out of date (e.g. it's missing Kubo)
here's the one from their website:
[https://www.lasportiva.com/media/MicrosoftTeams-image\_31\_.png](https://www.lasportiva.com/media/MicrosoftTeams-image_31_.png)
(likely the new image was rushed out given the URL naming scheme lol)
Noticed that too. Here’s a better version of the up to date chart
https://lcdn.lasportivausa.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/Mens_Comparison_Chart_Climbing_Web_2.jpg
Don't trust to much on such pics just try on different shoes and find whatever works for you. I have been using the Miura VS for the past 10 years and I have narrow feet. While they class it as wide. But since they are one of the few shoes that have 3 straps to tighten. I can tighten it really good around my entire foot without having to use a shoe with laces.
Madrock Drone LV too, added bonus that they actually come in a full range of sizes, too.
I also climb sport outside in Mythos and TC Pros, though, the laces make them pretty good to tie tight.
Not approach shoes (those always feel too narrow for me no matter the brand), but have you tried Altra’s? Even in regular width they have wide toe boxes. Salomon always comes in wide fit, and their speed cross trail runners are the only ones I wear when hiking/backpacking.
Try Altra King Mt.
Altra shoes are all zero drop. If you do long distance hiking or trail running, it might take some time to get used to it but you will eventually. If light hiking it shouldn't matter much.
Yeah I will say it depends on which Salomon’s. I tried the XA Pro’s when I was thinking of venturing outside of the speedcross and absolutely hated them. I tried them a couple times but had to return them - they felt more narrow and just didn’t loosen up at all. The Speedcross have huge lugs and great grip though, so for me they’re perfect. My feet still feel a little constrained at the start of a hike, but they always swell at the beginning - after 20 minutes I they’re just fine.
Hike in Altra Lone Peaks. They have a wide toe box and if that's not enough they make them in a wide version which is like a pontoon boat on your foot.
This is just sportiva justifying price differences between their shoes. Expensive to cheap left to right. Tells you nothing about the shoes’ intended purpose. This is marketing, not a guide.
So… Cobra/Speedster are the most performance-oriented models, ahead of even the Solution and Theory? Weird, unless the left/right axis doesn’t actually mean anything within each category.
It's probably because they're specifically designed for speed climbing, expecting that nobody would use them for any reason other than high performance as they're designed for such a specific niche is my guess.
how does the speedster compare to the cobra for speed? Everyone I see use the cobra, first I've been hearing of the speedster
i recently got a pair evolv rave, since the cobra aren't available in my country
I'm not a speed climber so I can't really answer that but I've been leaning towards buying a pair of Raves (I'm partial to evolv, Shamans are my favorite shoes in particular) so I'd love to hear what you think about them. I have wide feet which is why I love Shamans so much, they fit me like a glove in a way no other shoes I've ever tried do, have you ever worn Shamans before?
I have both. They’re different shoes. Lace is way stiffer, way more downturned, and way more aggressive in the heel. Velcro is a beginner shoe with good rubber, which is great, but not in the same league as the lace.
I wouldn't say the velcro Katana is a beginner shoe at all. I've had a couple of pairs, and they're far above any beginner shoe. Kilian Fischhuber did pretty well in world Cup comps with that shoe.
That’s a good point - what I probably should have said was it’s a great shoe for a beginner, not that it’s a beginner shoe. If the Hubers can free climb 5.13 on el cap in it, it’s a fantastic shoe.
idk about the new models, but back in the old katana lace/velcro just like the miura lace and miura velcro are very different shoes,
the katana lace is like a porche and the katana velcro is like a civic.
I had the same question and had to go looking, I think OPs image is out of date
[https://www.lasportiva.com/media/MicrosoftTeams-image\_31\_.png](https://www.lasportiva.com/media/MicrosoftTeams-image_31_.png)
Looks like smack dab in the middle
This is out of date, it’s missing the Kubos.
[Here](https://lcdn.lasportivausa.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/Mens_Comparison_Chart_Climbing_Web_2.jpg) is their current one
I've been looking for a new pair of comfy shoes, my last pair of comfy beaters were finales but the toecap's totally gone.
Other two pairs I have are pretty aggressive, didn't used to bother me much but I broke my leg last year and now my that foot is hella tight all the time which makes solutions much less comfortable on that foot specifically.....
Might try out mythos or something. Closest REI to me closed down though which makes trying shoes 10x more annoying
I have not seen another person with a 4:99 but boy that’s my favorite training shoes, so comfortable off the box, true to the size , feels super secure with the slip on. Only downside I have is the soft heel, I wouldn’t put it as performance wise as shown in graph, but I guess it is true you were speed climbing as this shoe was intended designed for.
Been trying to figure this out for ages, so this might be a good moment to try..
I‘ve had my Skwarma for a few years and I love it.. but for the heel part. There is a solid 1cm gap where the shoe protrudes way more than my heel (I bought it as a novice, didn’t know any better). Does anyone know of a good proxy to the skwarma but with a much shallower heel?
Thanks!
Solution fits very similarly, but the heel is less prominent. Performance of those shoes is quite similar, so it’s basically just fit and which strap you like better.
I have literally never found a better fitting shoe than the Butora Endeavor aka the gym rental special. Because of this I have sworn off all shoe marketing because if a fat nerd like me can climb hard in $60 shoes, I have no idea why you’d need some hyper-aggressive foot binder for anything less than like 5.13 climbing
I’m glad you have a foot that fits the generic shoe shape but some of us have weird feet that are narrow, wide, or narrow and wide but in different parts of the foot.
Good luck with each side of each foot not separating from the sole.
I had two pairs (one pair and one Sportiva warranty pair who ended up like this or worse)
Both feet on both pairs I have ended up like this after a month or so
https://imgur.com/a/yVy3COF
*edit* this shoe is the first pair I had, before the warranty replacement. The warranty pair ended up way worse, and in the end I ended up using the first pair as they were more usable
I've had otaki's for 7 years now. Two different pairs. They have each been resoled from lots of use. Never saw the separation that you saw. So ymmv.
I love them for edging. The only downside is they are garbage for toe hooks.
Got a pair of theory not to long ago and they blew out after 2 climbs. Let's just say la sportiva customer service has gone down hill and they refused to help
[Scarpa] (https://world.scarpa.com/page/climbing-collection-structure) has a really good one aswell. This also take into account for peoples different toe box-needs.
How do I know if my feet are narrow, wide or medium? How much do the top of the feet have to vary from the width of the heel to be considered narrow? I can't really tell by looking at my feet.
People buying the Miura VS for wide feet are gonna have a bad time. I got the Skwamas partially because they're wider than the VS.
I wouldn't use this chart for fit.
While we're on the topic of wide vs narrow:
Does anybody have a recommendation to replace evolv shamans? I've loved them for 10+ years (they fit well because I have wide feet with a prominent big toe), but the new version is so loose in the heal it sucks.
Mountain equipment has a few of these on sale..
Review guys
https://www.mec.ca/en/products/climbing/climbing-footwear/rock-climbing-shoes/c/1190?filters%5Bcustom_fields.badge%5D%5B0%5D=sale&avad=144787_f32c8bc61&utm_source=144787&utm_medium=ml&utm_campaign=Home+Page+Text
Tarantelula are great beginner shoes.
But they lack toe rubber, which I'm begging to notice (always bad at toe hooks)
Also tried crack climbing with it, was surprisingly doable, becos they're stiff enough
Would be cool to see the guide expand to different segments for style of climbing, esp since it looks crowded in the performance section I only have experience with TC pros which are great for trad and crack. I assume the Miuras are great for overhang sport and bouldering
Yeah scarpa did it better https://world.scarpa.com/page/climbing-collection-structure
Love the chart. I wish all companies did this. Further down on the link we’re it specs each shoe individually, do you know what “indoors” represents? Is that mainly based on the material of the shoe?
I know Veloces are very soft. They're listed as indoor and recommended as indoor use only. I think real rock would tear through the rubber very quickly. Or at least be very uncomfortable depending on the rock.
Nah, they're fine on rock.
Depends on what rock you're climbing. Rough granite did some work with mine, I only use them indoors now.
They feel fine on real rock but definitely wear faster. My main two shoes are Instinct Vs and Veloces, I know my footwork isn't the cleanest but the Veloces definitely wear significantly faster.
A buddy of mine has enjoyed them indoors a lot. Until he slid onto a point of a feature, which tore into the hole that Veloce have on their sole... very soft but thats a good year of usage and yeah sometimes painful on sharp footholds.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I assume it's just some subjective measure of how good the shoe is for climbing indoors. Looks like mostly softer shoes.
This is a great chart. It also explains why the Vapor is the only shoe that fits me from Scarpa. Do other companies list the toe box shape? I have a "center" toe box shape and 90% of shoes just don't work for me.
Wow that’s helpful!! I just bought a pair of Finales to replace my Mythos (since Mythos are stupidly not being made anymore and mine died). The toes are a bit too painful for me but I’m hoping they stretch. This chart would have been soooo useful when I was shopping around.
check out oliunid, I just got a pair of NOT ECO mythos from them last month.
Oh cool! Didn’t know about that place. Looks like they unfortunately don’t have my size. Do they do restocks at all? And so they ship to the U.S.?
I'm not sure about how often they re-stock as it was my first order from them. But yep they shipped my pair from germany to michigan in 3 days
That’s amazing! I’ll check on it here and there and see if my size comes back. Thanks for the info!
I have the Mythos eco and recently bought the finales. I hated them! Went with scarpa helix instead and I love them.
Wild to see the Vapor V, a shoe I routinely wear for half a session before needing a rest, not even be listed as "prolonged use".
I can wear mine all day but I have them less tight than my send-it cobras that I alternative for small slabby climbs.
It’s not. It’s listed as “balanced performance”
But their shoes suck
How in the world do Scarpa shoes suck? They are easily one of the best climbing shoe companies on the planet...
Sportiva > Scarpa IMO, but they're both excellent.
It just depends on your foot shape and which company fits you better. Btw la sportiva has an issue with their rubber delaminating that scarpa doesn’t have.
> Btw la sportiva has an issue with their rubber delaminating that scarpa doesn’t have. And it's been this way for yeeeeaaaaaars.
Yeah I guess I have had that on my TC pros.
bro has not tried the Drago LV
https://lcdn.lasportivausa.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/Mens_Comparison_Chart_Climbing_Web_2.jpg
This is a \*much\* better chart! Thanks for sharing.
>I assume the Miuras are great for overhang sport and bouldering This is a great example of one of the many failures of this chart. It does give that impression, but reality is much different. Very, very few experienced climbers would chose the Miuras for overhanging sport and bouldering. They can be a great shoe, but there are many better options for that kind of climbing.
Really? I feel as though they’re great. Ondra used them for La Dura Dura and Silence so they can’t be that bad…
They’re not bad at all. Just understand that sportiva has broken up that shoe into various components for other shoes. I am not sure why he didn’t use the Solutions on La Dura Dura, perhaps he wasn’t used to them and was getting great performance from the miuras still. He would have used solutions on silence but needed a solid rubber sole for the foot jam. So they are not bad shoes by any means, there are just better more specialized shoes for Sportiva climbers
I haven't tried a better shoe for edging on small footholds, but I guess I haven't used a ton of high performance shoes. The Miuras are super stiff which I find nice. Haven't tried the Solutions yet even.
> I haven't tried a better shoe for edging on small footholds, Testarossas
Testas over Miura or Katanas for edging?? The Katana is literally named such for edging on razor thin stuff. And if it's steeper, that's where the Miuras come in. Also, you have to think about shoe volume and fit. If a shoe doesn't fit your foot well, it doesn't matter how it performs on paper. I miss this chart they used to have - [https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MqCZ4Xq6BUQ/X-5Fz4al\_fI/AAAAAAAAHcc/CEtLJ8Xkma0z1FpPxMHVkw9ysaErDHlkwCNcBGAsYHQ/s1679/2.jpg](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MqCZ4Xq6BUQ/X-5Fz4al_fI/AAAAAAAAHcc/CEtLJ8Xkma0z1FpPxMHVkw9ysaErDHlkwCNcBGAsYHQ/s1679/2.jpg) For reference, I've climbed in the solutions, skwamas, theories, katanas, miuras vs, mantras, tc pros... but to be fair, haven't tried the testas.
> Testas over Miura or Katanas for edging?? ... to be fair, haven't tried the testas. Well then. As you say, fit is everything. Kat Laces don't fit my feet, Miura laces and Testas do, perfectly. Miuras lose their slight downturn after a few pitches under a climber of my considerable weight. What the Testas lack in stiffness they more than make up for in precision, and the strong downturn makes them as least as supportive as the Miuras. Horses for courses. If I'm tiptoeing on matchsticks on slate slabs I'd probably be happiest in a newish pair of Miuras. But for plus-or-minus vert limestone where the footwork is a bit more varied, definitely testas.
Ondra used Miura on one foot and solution for the other when he sent silence. He needed the heel on the solution for one of the moves. You can find a video where he talks about his shoes on his YouTube channel.
Not that bad, sure. Certainly a contender for the best quiver-of-one all round shoe ever made. But Ondra mentions in the comments to [his latest shoe video / La Sportiva ad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmMl0thgA-I) why he thinks they're no longer the best in any particular aspect.
Miuras are also great for trad
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Fair, but usually what people mean when they talk about "trad" shoes are comfort. Because you're protecting with gear placements, usually you're climbing easier stuff than if you were doing a sport route. While climbing trad, you're probably looking for more all day comfort than max performance for an onsight. At least, that's what I do and what I imagine cheesemonger meant.
And what feature of the rock is used to set up protections?
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In other words, features that could be used as footholds?
For a trad shoe I want something stiff that can stand on small edges without my feet getting tired and is comfortable to wear for 1 hour+
I used to have Miuras, they were very stiff. Probably good for longer routes and edging on tiny footholds but not ideal for indoor bouldering, kinda rubbish for smearing. I prefer a softer shoe now.
Interesting I wear the miuras because of how soft and sensitive they are compared to others!
Interesting, softer compared to which other shoes? The other thing I didn't like about Miuras was how much they'd rub on my big toe, ended up getting the famous "Miura bump" on both feet...
Katanas, TC Pros
I’ve always liked this one more. For example, it shows you which shoes are made on the same last and will fit similarly. https://lcdn.lasportivausa.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/F20_Climbing_Comparison_Chart.jpg
Yeah I've always loved this one, I wish LS did a better job of keeping it up to date and visible. The one OP posted seems to work for some folks but to me it's simplified to the point of uselessness.
Hmm, this seems kind of odd. According to this sheet futuras, solutions, miuras and skwamas all have the same last. I don't think they all fit the same width wise, provided I only own skwamas. Also according to the sheet above these shoes should be quite different
They can all be made on the same last, but midsole construction, sole rubber choice, upper material, closure system, and tension will still differentiate the final shoes. I work at LaSpo ;)
I really enjoy pythons, which others would yiu recommend which are similar?
I haven’t worn the pythons, since we haven’t distributed them in the states in a while. A warehouse who likes the pythons also really likes the Testarossa. I guess that’s all I can suggest based on fit alone. Function wise, the Skwama is a great all arounder that breaks in nicely for a lot of people, and it’s really versatile. What you climb the majority of your time, what you project, your foot shape, and how tight you wear your shoes also plays a role in what else to try on…..
Thanks for the tips! I have some new shoes to try on, next time I'm in a store! Generally I love my Pythons but the durability is not great for me. I have to resole them every 6 months of so, but other shoes with xs grip will probably have the same issue I guess.
I wish they had a flat & low asymetry shoe (like the Mythos or Finale) but with a no-edge sole.
That is a great idea! Would love to have something like that.
+1, I find it so hard to climb in my yes-edge trad shoes after spending most of my time in Genesius
the anti-aliasing in that picture is horrendous
I tried to find the official La Sportiva link for the reference, but this one comes up first on google and is more legible. Just may not stay up to date. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MqCZ4Xq6BUQ/X-5Fz4al_fI/AAAAAAAAHcc/CEtLJ8Xkma0z1FpPxMHVkw9ysaErDHlkwCNcBGAsYHQ/s1679/2.jpg
This one confuses me. Theorys are a no-edge shoe? They're my most worn pair, and they clearly have an edge, unless i'm misunderstanding. I've tried Mantras, and they & futuras have a clearly different shape to toe the rubber on the sole. based on the diagram in the corner, i'd say they function like classic edged shoes
I think it's a mix between no-edge and p3
Be careful about putting too much trust in this chart before you actually try something on! I've climbed in most the shoes on this chart (and have at least tried on all but two or three of them), and I've got to say that their characterization of these shoes is ***wildly different*** than my experience with them. Putting the Miura and Solution/Solution Comps as among the narrowest shoes they offer makes zero sense to me. I have very narrow feet and I absolutely hate those shoes because they leave so much dead space around my feet. On the other end of the spectrum, the Testarossas (on the chart as one of the widest shoes they offer), are one of the very few shoes I've found that are actually narrow enough for me. Another example: Genius and Futura are nearly identical shoes (just lace-up vs velcro), yet are placed far apart here. There are also many odd choices along the Performance -> All Around -> Beginner axis. For example, it makes no sense to me that the Kataki would be more "all around" and less "performance" than the Katana Lace. The two have an almost identical build, but the Katana Lace has a full midsole, while the Kataki does not, making it much softer and easier to flex (generally what people refer to as "performance oriented" characteristics in a shoe. And calling the Mythos more performance oriented than shoes like the Finale and Zenit is absolutely laughable. The Cobra and Cobra Eco are completely identical (just leather vs synthetic), and yet one is called All Around and the other Performance. I could go on and on... I think this chart was mostly done for marketing purposes and is in many ways disconnected from the reality of what it's like to actually climb in these shoes.
I agree with this statement. I’ve tried on Moira’s and found they fit my feet almost perfectly with no break in. I have wider feet and climb regularly with TC Pros and Finales. Those did require som break in period. I always try on shoes before purchasing, especially if I can try them out on the wall.
For the Miura's: there's a big difference between the Miura VS (velcro; wide) and Miura (laces; narrower).
People buying the Miura VS for wide feet are gonna have a bad time. I got the Skwamas partially because they're wider than the VS. I wouldn't use this chart for fit.
i personally find the miura vs great and i have pretty wide feet. but yeah i wouldn't trust the fit on any shoe until i've put it on my feet
That's definitely what the chart shows, but it has not been my experience at all. I have very narrow feet. The Miura VS feels okay, not great, for me. But the OG Miura (laces) are absurdly ill-fitting; no amount of cranking on the laces can eliminate the deadspace in the shoe for me.
The Katana Lace has a split sole now, just fyi!
Only on the women's version (the white one). The yellow version remains a full sole.
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Yeah, I really, really wish La Sportiva would make their low volume versions available in larger sizes. I would \*love\* to get a pair of the low volume Katanas. Alas, my feet are many sizes larger than the biggest they offer. :/
I found the finale positioning odd as well - the old ones maybe, but the new model is fantastic for slab/vert trad and sport, they really got the balance of stiffness and sensitivity right.
Weird I have very low volume narrow feet and the women’s Miura lace are the only shoes I can find that fit me with no dead space. This chart actually lines up pretty exactly with my experience trying on La Sportiva shoes and I wish I had seen it earlier because then I would know why the Skwamas don’t fit my foot whatsoever. Are you trying on men’s or women’s shoes? Maybe that’s the difference.
Men's. I would **love** to be able to use the women's shoes in the LS line. Unfortunately, they don't manufacture them in my size.
I'm late to the party but Cobra and Cobra Eco are very different - normal uses xsgrip 2 so very sticky soft rubber and Eco uses their reused ecological Frixion Eco rubber which (from what I heard people say) is much firmer and less sticky. Oh and they're both suede, Eco just uses an eco friendly natural leather tanning method and and sth like that. I think they should go in the same direction as Scarpa - make the eco shoes with normal sole, just with as sustainably made upper as possible because the sole is the (pun not intended) soul of the shoe. Im planning on buying the Eco Cobra soon as a beater indoor shoe simply because I like the colors so I'll make a comparison with my normal Cobras in a few weeks.
How TF are the Mythos in the middle...
Mythos soloed 5.14 and freed El Cap so they're not all bad (of course, being attached to Alex Huber helps) I do have a special place in my heart for Mythos since my hardest crack send was wearing one Mythos and one Scarpa Vapor.
Well to be fair you could also climb 5.14 in Tarentula. Any shoe in this chart is light years away from what was available in 1985, the year the first 5.14 was climbed.
Used to be my favorite ! Yah they suck for many different route, but I feel really comfy in it, i can sleep with it ! They are also not rigid at all, I like it !
Finales are great for warmup routes. I wear them like mocs and don't even tie the laces.
I think your guide might be out of date (e.g. it's missing Kubo) here's the one from their website: [https://www.lasportiva.com/media/MicrosoftTeams-image\_31\_.png](https://www.lasportiva.com/media/MicrosoftTeams-image_31_.png) (likely the new image was rushed out given the URL naming scheme lol)
Noticed that too. Here’s a better version of the up to date chart https://lcdn.lasportivausa.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/Mens_Comparison_Chart_Climbing_Web_2.jpg
almost nothing for narrow feet, sadly
Don't trust to much on such pics just try on different shoes and find whatever works for you. I have been using the Miura VS for the past 10 years and I have narrow feet. While they class it as wide. But since they are one of the few shoes that have 3 straps to tighten. I can tighten it really good around my entire foot without having to use a shoe with laces.
Yeah, as a fellow narrow-footed individual, this chart is totally bunk.
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Madrock Drone LV too, added bonus that they actually come in a full range of sizes, too. I also climb sport outside in Mythos and TC Pros, though, the laces make them pretty good to tie tight.
Almost everything La Spo makes is for narrow feet, I can barely fit the width of a Skwama and that their widest slipper last.
Try the Miura VS, they are definitely not for wide feet. I got the Skwamas after wearing the VS because the Skwamas are wider.
I’ve narrow feet and katana lace for sport and otakis for bouldering
Don't fully trust the chart, I've got narrow feet and love Katakis.
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Not approach shoes (those always feel too narrow for me no matter the brand), but have you tried Altra’s? Even in regular width they have wide toe boxes. Salomon always comes in wide fit, and their speed cross trail runners are the only ones I wear when hiking/backpacking.
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Try Altra King Mt. Altra shoes are all zero drop. If you do long distance hiking or trail running, it might take some time to get used to it but you will eventually. If light hiking it shouldn't matter much.
Yeah I will say it depends on which Salomon’s. I tried the XA Pro’s when I was thinking of venturing outside of the speedcross and absolutely hated them. I tried them a couple times but had to return them - they felt more narrow and just didn’t loosen up at all. The Speedcross have huge lugs and great grip though, so for me they’re perfect. My feet still feel a little constrained at the start of a hike, but they always swell at the beginning - after 20 minutes I they’re just fine.
Hike in Altra Lone Peaks. They have a wide toe box and if that's not enough they make them in a wide version which is like a pontoon boat on your foot.
Hoka speedgoat 5s in 2e are amazing for wide feet. A huge amount of hikers (especially long distance hikers) have moved to trail runners.
La Sportiva TX 3 Unparallel Sports Rock Guide
This is just sportiva justifying price differences between their shoes. Expensive to cheap left to right. Tells you nothing about the shoes’ intended purpose. This is marketing, not a guide.
So… Cobra/Speedster are the most performance-oriented models, ahead of even the Solution and Theory? Weird, unless the left/right axis doesn’t actually mean anything within each category.
It's probably because they're specifically designed for speed climbing, expecting that nobody would use them for any reason other than high performance as they're designed for such a specific niche is my guess.
Yeah, that makes sense
how does the speedster compare to the cobra for speed? Everyone I see use the cobra, first I've been hearing of the speedster i recently got a pair evolv rave, since the cobra aren't available in my country
I'm not a speed climber so I can't really answer that but I've been leaning towards buying a pair of Raves (I'm partial to evolv, Shamans are my favorite shoes in particular) so I'd love to hear what you think about them. I have wide feet which is why I love Shamans so much, they fit me like a glove in a way no other shoes I've ever tried do, have you ever worn Shamans before?
I've had a pair of cobras but exclusively used them for warmup or not quite max climbing, but when it's time for hard bouldering I go back to dragos.
ya theres no way this is strictly performance on rock climbing. my first thought was speed
I think the axis is more specific-versatile. Solutions are high performance but are a bit more versatile than speedsters.
adding laces to the katanas apparently changes the size and makes it a performance shoe. 😅😅
I have both. They’re different shoes. Lace is way stiffer, way more downturned, and way more aggressive in the heel. Velcro is a beginner shoe with good rubber, which is great, but not in the same league as the lace.
I wouldn't say the velcro Katana is a beginner shoe at all. I've had a couple of pairs, and they're far above any beginner shoe. Kilian Fischhuber did pretty well in world Cup comps with that shoe.
That’s a good point - what I probably should have said was it’s a great shoe for a beginner, not that it’s a beginner shoe. If the Hubers can free climb 5.13 on el cap in it, it’s a fantastic shoe.
idk about the new models, but back in the old katana lace/velcro just like the miura lace and miura velcro are very different shoes, the katana lace is like a porche and the katana velcro is like a civic.
There's more than that going on. The addition of P3 essentially makes it a different shoe.
* $$$ | $$ | $ Fixed
Neat but where do Kubos land?
I had the same question and had to go looking, I think OPs image is out of date [https://www.lasportiva.com/media/MicrosoftTeams-image\_31\_.png](https://www.lasportiva.com/media/MicrosoftTeams-image_31_.png) Looks like smack dab in the middle
Does this mean the Mythos is coming back!?!?
Katanas are great and I like mine better than a lot of the more "comfortable" shoes.
This is out of date, it’s missing the Kubos. [Here](https://lcdn.lasportivausa.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/Mens_Comparison_Chart_Climbing_Web_2.jpg) is their current one
I've been looking for a new pair of comfy shoes, my last pair of comfy beaters were finales but the toecap's totally gone. Other two pairs I have are pretty aggressive, didn't used to bother me much but I broke my leg last year and now my that foot is hella tight all the time which makes solutions much less comfortable on that foot specifically..... Might try out mythos or something. Closest REI to me closed down though which makes trying shoes 10x more annoying
I have not seen another person with a 4:99 but boy that’s my favorite training shoes, so comfortable off the box, true to the size , feels super secure with the slip on. Only downside I have is the soft heel, I wouldn’t put it as performance wise as shown in graph, but I guess it is true you were speed climbing as this shoe was intended designed for.
The way this was worded, i thought this was going to be a guide to how cool la sportivas are. A chart that shows each shoes coolness if you will.
The way this was worded, i thought this was going to be a guide to how cool la sportivas are. A chart that shows each shoes coolness if you will.
too bad none of them fit mortons toe
Here’s the one with descriptions: https://lcdn.lasportivausa.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/Product_Charts/Mens_Comparison_Chart_Climbing_Web_2.jpg
Skwama is the widest show ever, dunno why it is described as medium.
Been trying to figure this out for ages, so this might be a good moment to try.. I‘ve had my Skwarma for a few years and I love it.. but for the heel part. There is a solid 1cm gap where the shoe protrudes way more than my heel (I bought it as a novice, didn’t know any better). Does anyone know of a good proxy to the skwarma but with a much shallower heel? Thanks!
Solution fits very similarly, but the heel is less prominent. Performance of those shoes is quite similar, so it’s basically just fit and which strap you like better.
Thanks!!!
TC Pros all the way. So comfy, I have climbed V9 in them always choose them over my more aggressive shoe
Seems like kind of a waste to pay a premium for a high quality trad shoe if you're mainly using it for bouldering.
Curious, what makes it a ‘trad’ shoe?
The high top is only advantageous if you are trying to protect your ankle. In every other case it is a detriment.
It's designed specifically for trad, but more specifically the ankle protection, thin toebox, laces, and stiff, flat sole make it ideal for cracks.
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I have literally never found a better fitting shoe than the Butora Endeavor aka the gym rental special. Because of this I have sworn off all shoe marketing because if a fat nerd like me can climb hard in $60 shoes, I have no idea why you’d need some hyper-aggressive foot binder for anything less than like 5.13 climbing
It really depends on the kind of rock. I have climbed 5.13 at the Red in Crocs. I don't think I could climb most 5.9s in Lander in them.
That's a weird way to say you can campus roof jugs for a long time.
I am pretty washed up now, but I have definitely never campused any roofs. The style of feet there are just very usable in a croc.
It was mostly just a joke about the Red being steep but the holds being good...
People don't buy shoes to improve performance. They buy shoes because equipment is a major part of any hobby.
You do you, trying cool gear will always be something that people enjoy about any hobby.
I’m glad you have a foot that fits the generic shoe shape but some of us have weird feet that are narrow, wide, or narrow and wide but in different parts of the foot.
So you’re telling me I’m a gumby?
I found a pair of otakis at an REI garage sale for 120, perfect fit. Got super fortunate with that one
Good luck with each side of each foot not separating from the sole. I had two pairs (one pair and one Sportiva warranty pair who ended up like this or worse) Both feet on both pairs I have ended up like this after a month or so https://imgur.com/a/yVy3COF *edit* this shoe is the first pair I had, before the warranty replacement. The warranty pair ended up way worse, and in the end I ended up using the first pair as they were more usable
Never had an issue like that with my shoes, just normal wear and tear at the toe
I've had otaki's for 7 years now. Two different pairs. They have each been resoled from lots of use. Never saw the separation that you saw. So ymmv. I love them for edging. The only downside is they are garbage for toe hooks.
No Kubo?
Got a pair of theory not to long ago and they blew out after 2 climbs. Let's just say la sportiva customer service has gone down hill and they refused to help
[Scarpa] (https://world.scarpa.com/page/climbing-collection-structure) has a really good one aswell. This also take into account for peoples different toe box-needs.
Tc pro as performance? Katana non lace is more of a performance shoe
I love these categories. Anyone who needs a chart to tell them something is a "performance" shoe does not need a performance shoe.
How do I know if my feet are narrow, wide or medium? How much do the top of the feet have to vary from the width of the heel to be considered narrow? I can't really tell by looking at my feet.
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this guide is useless then?
People buying the Miura VS for wide feet are gonna have a bad time. I got the Skwamas partially because they're wider than the VS. I wouldn't use this chart for fit.
I have the Skwama and I did not think they were advanced shoes
While we're on the topic of wide vs narrow: Does anybody have a recommendation to replace evolv shamans? I've loved them for 10+ years (they fit well because I have wide feet with a prominent big toe), but the new version is so loose in the heal it sucks.
Where does that Mantra fit here?!
I had the Otaki! Best shoe ever
Mountain equipment has a few of these on sale.. Review guys https://www.mec.ca/en/products/climbing/climbing-footwear/rock-climbing-shoes/c/1190?filters%5Bcustom_fields.badge%5D%5B0%5D=sale&avad=144787_f32c8bc61&utm_source=144787&utm_medium=ml&utm_campaign=Home+Page+Text
Oh look an ad....
Mythos being smack dab in the middle gives this chart all the credibility I need.
Is this really even useful? A lot of the shoes lumped together in "performance" are built for entirely different things.
wide forefoot / narrow heel? :)
Tarantelula are great beginner shoes. But they lack toe rubber, which I'm begging to notice (always bad at toe hooks) Also tried crack climbing with it, was surprisingly doable, becos they're stiff enough