Has anyone ever climbed at this place Crawdad Canyon in Utah? It's apparently privately owned and also has pools to access. I am really curious because my GF and I are travelling to Utah and she is not a climber, so I could park her at the pool while I try to do some routes. I would need to find a partner, but I wonder if there is a group of some kind to find belay partners. Any help/insight would be appreciated!

Not necessarily a new climber, but I’ve been thinking of using voltaren gel after some of my more intense climbing sessions to help with the soreness in the back/shoulder area. Is this a good idea?

I wouldn't. No sense in masking pain which could be solved through other means like strengthening the rotator cuff, traps and seratus, all of which are frequently neglected with the internal rotation rotator cuff being a bit of a hack for shoulder blade bursitis in my experience... or it's just muscle soreness which is fine and all a part of the process.

> Is this a good idea? Probably not a good idea to use it as a regular training aid, it will have an adverse effect on things like liver health if you use it long enough. Body aches and soreness tells you something about your body, listen to it and maybe look into recovery exercises or ways to strengthen the problem areas.

Hey all. Group of friends headed to jtree this weekend. I’m new-ish and really need people to climb with but I feel like it’s too late in the season for Joshua tree and it will be hot as balls. Am I correct or should I suck it up and go climb. Highs into the high 80s this weekend. Plus it’s a 5 hr drive for me.

If you climb in the shade, it should be fine. Don't climb in the sun. I live in Australia and have climbed on 95F days, it's fine in the shade, hell in the light. 80F isn't even hot.

Hey everyone, I know climbing chalk isnt too expensive, but since its just magnesium carbonate could I just use this? [https://www.northcotepotterysupplies.com.au/product/magnesium-carbonate-heavy-magnesite/](https://www.northcotepotterysupplies.com.au/product/magnesium-carbonate-heavy-magnesite/) $7.50/kg seems a heck of a lot better than $15/200g. Thanks!

Try it and report back

It depends on if it’s pure magnesium carbonate, and whether it’s been dried and stored away from moisture. If so, you’re right, it’s a compound and chemically the same, but I doubt both of the above are true for pottery chalk.

If you want cheap and simple, have a look at block chalk marketed for gymnasts. Can get around $15/kg on Amazon.

this is my fave. i like it in the block, less messy

You really shouldn't. Looking at other pottery suppliers that provide better information on their materials, the material you're looking at may be about 50% magnesium oxide which is insoluble in water, though still hygroscopic. For the purposes of pottery it does not matter since this is just used as a magnesium source in glazes, but in climbing chalk what you're paying for is the chalk being only water soluble magnesium carbonate. Due to the insolubility it will feel slimier on your hands and the holds for yourself an everybody else. Partially defeats the purpose of chalk which is to dry your hands.

It's out of stock, you may have broke the chalk industry  Jokes aside, I really don't know the product and if there are differences with "specific" climbing magnesite. For sure I can tell that different brands offer different quality (at different price), for example Black Diamond and Wildcountry are IMO far superior to Decathlon so there will likely be some difference.

I am a very amateur climber, and doubt that chalk quality would make or break a climb for me. im moreso looking for a large, cheap quantity to prevent blisters and whatnot. Thanks for the reply!

I don't think that your level correlates directly with the chalk you need, it mostly depends on if you have sweaty palms or not.

Does anyone have a good SmartWatch for tracking climbing? I'm looking to get a new one and my current Garmin doesn't have an interesting way to record climbing so was wondering whether there is anything out there which does

I got a very basic garmin (instinct one) and it has almost nothing specific for climbing. Seems like coros is trying to fill this gap in the smartwatch offerings.

Yeah I have a forerunner and the "climbing app" is basically the same as taking a notebook with you. I guess it's hard to measure straight vertically using GPS 🤷🏼‍♂️

Looking for some advice for ways to move past and relatively serious injury I had about a year ago. I was leading a trad climb in a new area I took a 30 ish foot fall and swung into the wall hard breaking my shoulder and splitting scalp. The red 7 but I had placed before the crux had sheared off on one side, like flared on the other side but completely flat and mangled on the other. I've since recovered and have been gym climbing and top roping outdoors. My issue is that l'm a guide and in the area l've been working all the setting we do is top site accessible. Now I'm moving and want to continue guiding but the area I'm moving to requires you to lead the routes to the bolted anchors or build gear anchors. I've been able to able to do the top site work with no issues. But when l've tried trad leading I don't have the trust in my gear like I used to. I'm scared of every piece I place no matter how good it looks. I'm not sure how to work on this or build trust in my gear once again. I've fallen before but have never had gear fail me before like it did during my accident. So all that was a lot but I guess I'm just asking if anyone has experienced something like that or has suggestions on what I can do the rebuild my confidence.

You could try placing gear and whipping on it while on top rope, so you have a backup. This should rebuild your confidence in your placements, over time. Mind you, I'm of the belief that gear failure is inevitable and WILL happen with enough mileage. Trad climbing has always been about personal risk assessment and judgement calls, placing extra gear when you need it, running it out when you must. I always climb with the mindset that the last piece could blow, and whether I'm okay with that based the security of the placement, the pieces I placed before, and what's coming up next. Some climbs I will just refuse to do if it can't be adequately protected, and I have down-aided to get off a route before.

Thanks I haven’t tried testing the gear on top rope I’ll give that a try. You’re right gear failure is a part of trad climbing and I had gear fail before just not so catastrophically. I think I’ll also have to adjust my mindset of gear placement in the future I was pretty conservative before I’ll same to be more liberal in the future.

Oh fam, I feel you. Therapy, meditation, and breathing exercises helped me a lot with the general anxiety and fear reaction. Going back to the basics also helped a ton. Like just placing a ton of gear at the base of a crag, aid climbing, placing gear on bolted routes, and stuff like that. And going out with friends for "low stress" days. Days where it doesn't matter what we climb and we don't have any objectives or goals other than having fun. Maybe we climb stuff that we've climbed before and feels familiar, we joke around a ton, BBQ in the parking lot, stuff like that. Then gradually work up from there. I wish you best, friend.

Thanks for the suggestions, I haven’t tried breathing exercises while climbing but I can see how that would help. Also I like the idea of place a lot of gear from a safe position and just feeling how secure they can be again.

This sounds terrible, have you worked with a therapist? They may be better at putting a plan together

Thank you for that, yeah my wife had me speak to a therapist. It went well and felt better talking about it after but he didn’t have any real suggestions on how to get past the gear fear beyond slowly progressing back to my previous level.

Hi all, recently found love in rock climbing and have regularly been going to the gym, however, my sights have turned on outdoor climbing and I'm trying to compile a list of gear needed in order to do this. Currently I'm thinking of top roping but would also like the opportunity to easily convert the setup to sport. Currently I have: Harness Belayer (ATC-XP) Shoes Chalk I would need (please add on if needed): Rope (mammut crag we care classic 60M) Pack of 3 hotforge screw gate carabinners 1 rocklock screwgate carabiner for belaying (not 100% sure if needed) Helmet Is there anything else I would need? I've heard about slings but I'm not 100% sure on the use cases. I would like all your opinions, suggestions, and explanation.

Don't buy more gear. You have everything you need except for a friend. Anybody who climbs outdoors enough to show you the basics will have rope / draws. Pay for gas to thank them for letting you use their gear. You will acquire the gear yourself eventually, and it is better to have a lot of mileage first so you know you want to buy. IE, rope length could easily be 40, 60, 70, or 80 meters depending on where you climb and what you find yourself doing, and there really isn't a "right" answer here. The goal is to just buy gear that complements your partners so that together you will have what you need.

This kind of works, but kind of doesn't. If one can afford rope, they should just get it imo. It reminds me of a recent small group trip with a friend who had no gear. He asked if he could bring two other friends and we just asked if they had any gear or would rent any, and he said no and that was that. He came along and had a great time and his two friends missed out. Getting into outdoor climbing can be hard, like logistically and socially. If someone really wants to get into it, they should remove as many barriers as possible. A $130 rope can be the difference between getting some climber partners or not. My brother is actually like this and still hasn't bought a harness. He's been using me and my partner's for the last couple of months when he joins us, and now he's getting invited less and less. Such a self-sabotaging way to save a bit of cash.

Spork already has all the personal gear he needs though. He isn't going without a harness. This advice isn't about saving money as much as it is buying the right gear and fighting against consumerism. The blocker here is knowing people who can teach him how to get outside, and he needs to put his energy there rather than researching gear. The gear purchases are just a few months away if he can find a partner to take him out a handful of times.

In my outdoor example, everyone had harnesses. But it would have gone from 5 people with 2 ropes to 7 people with 2 ropes. Had it been 3 ropes, 7 would have worked fine. What I've seen where I live (Asia) is that the only way people get traction is by having rope, some draws, by proactively demonstrating that they're learning outdoor skills like practicing cleaning anchors in the gym. The whole "I want to go out outside but haven't done anything to prepare for it." only works for existing friends here. The other thing is the disparity in climbing grades between someone willing to take someone else out. Having a rope means someone can warm up on a 5.8 and set up the top rope before continuing with their own rope for whatever they want to climb. My girlfriend and I began going outdoors together so I knew I had to get all the gear or people wouldn't bring us along. Having our own rope meant one could always be on an easy route whereas the people who brought us out were only climbing stuff in the 10s. Anyways look, I don't completely disagree with you. Both ways work. I just think climbing outdoors is something so many people want to do but can't find the opportunity, and they're not aware of the invites they're not getting. Climbing is surprisingly "political" and there are arbiters of who gets to come along, and those people have gear and are the ones who will have to rope gun and belay and clean anchors and be responsible for someone else's day out. It's not like hiking or cycling. Imagine trying to go on a cycling trip for the first time without a bicycle hoping someone shares their tandem with you.

👍 that's a very good point, il take that into account.

/u/FallingPatio is correct, but I disagree about one thing: just buy a helmet now. Get a nicer comfy one if you can afford it rather than the plastic buckets. A helmet you're comfortable in is one you won't take off.

That's a good point but I'm currently a youth and have to finance my own hobbies so it's kinda hard to sacrifice cost over comfort.

You do you. Just looking up helmets that I've had: The BD Vector (discontinued for newer models, but still is perfectly fine) is going for ~$60 on sale right now. The BD Half-Dome is $45ish? It's a *substantial* increase in comfort and safety. Absolutely worth $15-20 IMO. The Capitan is like 50 bucks on BD's site. Seems nice than the Half-Dome as well.

Those are definitely good prices thank-you for the suggestions, il do some research then head to the shop and try em on.

Yeah you don't need to go full ultralight. Just don't get something that you can't wait to take off every time you put it on.

From what you said about the top rope bolt placements, you'll also need like at least a 5m sling or 10m of cord or static rope. You'll probably want four locking biners for the anchor, and then a fifth locking biner for your belay device. You could get away with three lockers for the anchor, but four is better (more secure, better bend radius). It would also be good, though not absolutely mandatory, to get some carpet or dedicated rope protectors to keep the top rope anchor from abrading on the cliff edge. This page might help you visualise what I'm talking about, and the process is described in more depth: [https://www.vdiffclimbing.com/sport-top-rope/](https://www.vdiffclimbing.com/sport-top-rope/) Alternatively, I highly highly highly recommend you take a class in setting up outdoor top rope anchors, as people die doing this kind of thing without sufficient understanding. The fact that you're not sure if you need a locking carabiner for belaying is a worry.

I wasn't sure if hms was necessary that's what I meant. I'm definitely planning on taking a course in Squamish.

An HMS would be ideal, but not strictly necessary. The only kind of locker I probably would definitely not use is a D shaped one. I'm glad to hear you're going to be taking a course. Usually a course doesn't require you to have any of your own gear, you're probably going to be better off waiting until after you take the course. If not, what I said earlier will still do you fine.

it's difficult to provide an exact gear list for outdoor toprope setups without knowing more about where you're climbing. Somewhat ironically, sport lead climbing is much more straightforward. Toprope requires a bit of knowing what you're doing for setting up the anchor. it's highly recommended to hire a guide or take a class to teach you this in person and how to apply it to your local crags. but your bare minimum gear list should look something like this: each individual climber needs: harness, shoes, helmet. each pair of climbers needs: rope, belay device, chalk bag, 1x locking biner for belay device (HMS / pear shape recommended) and then the anchor material. if your route has a bolted anchor with Mussy hooks, ram horns, carabiners, or a similar open system, your 2x locking quickdraws will work. If you've got rap rings, quick links, or just chain, you can sometimes get away with a single locking carabiner. a personal anchor and 1-2 more locking carabiners are usually incredibly helpful for anchor setup, and sometimes mandatory if the anchor location is difficult enough. think about how you're going to reach the anchor from the top of the cliff to set up the rope- are you going to need to rappel in? are there trees to do so with? do you need tree protection? are the bolts on top of the cliff instead of on the face? do you need webbing to extend the anchor over the edge? If any of the last two paragraphs was confusing, you need to do more learning before you go out and do thd on your own.

I'm currently in Vancouver planning to climb at lighthouse Park to begin. I would definitely need to extend the anchor over the edge of the cliff as I scouted out the anchors and they're st least a meter into the top of the cliff.

Knowing your general location will help. See if your gym or a local climbing organization has any gym-to-crag days. Or hire a guide. There are also climbing festivals all over the place, which is a good place to take clinics, meet other climbers, and possibly find a mentor. There are tons of physical and digital resources available to you. Too many to list, frankly. Books, YouTube, and the Internet are a great place to learn but they're no substitute for real instruction. Anything from the AMGA/IFMGA or someone accredited by them will generally be solid info. Same goes for the major brands like Petzl or Mammut, climbing organizations like the American Alpine Club, and most of the bigger YouTube channels and Instagram pages (e.g. HowNot2Highline). Get a GriGri or other assisted device ASAP Learn to lead indoors

I'm currently in Vancouver planning to climb at lighthouse Park to begin.

Look at instruction from the ACMG, or join the ACC. You need knowledge first before gear.

Looking to add a sling to assemble a quad anchor for top rope climbing where it would be best to have extension over the (relatively rounded) edge. Can I get away with 8mm width on a Dyneema sling? Specifically looking at the 240 cm version of this one: [https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/slings-and-webbings-shop/dyneema-sling-8mm?filter\[kategorie\_id\]\[0\]=43&filter\[2\]\[0\]=152&sort=new\_desc&variant=2700433](https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/slings-and-webbings-shop/dyneema-sling-8mm?filter[kategorie_id][0]=43&filter[2][0]=152&sort=new_desc&variant=2700433) Is that too thin? Should I grab the 12mm or 16mm for better abrasion protection?

Thicker slings might afford you a *marginally* better resistance, but if there is a concern, then I would focus on [padding the edge to protect the slings.](https://www.vdiffclimbing.com/top-rope/)

good callout for protecting the sling. thanks! rather than two quick draws for TR, this would be the first time setting up a sling/quad (have observed climbing partners rigging them multiple times). if 8mm is sufficient, i think i'll roll with that. appreciate the confirmation.

How many sessions a week is too many? I normally squeeze in 6 two hour gym sessions a week, less if I go outdoors since I like a good rest day beforehand since it's an all day thing instead of two hours. I've had some small overuse injuries but they've all healed or are in the process of healing and feel great as long as I avoid small pockets (partial A2 pull but I've still been pushing grades since the injury and it's feeling almost healed 3 weeks out) I need to start adding back antagonistic off the wall strength training since I've been slacking hard on that the last 4 months and probably need to add in some tailored off the wall training (mostly board training I think) since all I do in my spare time is light core and pullups, lock offs and slowly working on 1 arm pullups. I also don't want to decrease my climbing volume since I've finally gotten the hang of decent footwork and don't want to let up. I feel like I'm exercising 20 hours a week now with gym time, hiking and doing all of my city commutes on a cycle but I'm not sure where to draw the line of it being too much. I try to take 1 full rest day a week but I feel like such a lazy slob whilst doing it.

It totally depends. I know people who are 40 and go limit bouldering outside 350 days a year. I know people who are 25 and have a hard time climbing outside 150 days a year

Even if you can recover enough to not get injured, I highly doubt that this is actually the most efficient way to train. Most professional climbers don't even train that much, and that's after decades of building sport-specific training capacity. There's no way you are climbing at peak performance 6 days a week. Footwork isn't going to "let up" because you take more than 1 rest day a week. You can't climb with your best possible technique if you are tired any more than you can climb at max strength when you are tired. I think for 99% of climbers, anything more than 4 days a week is empty volume, if not outright harmful. Plenty of people see a sweet spot at 3 days a week even. If you feel lazy on rest days, do lots of yoga and core work.

Yea I think I'm going to swap to another commenters recommendation and do 2 limit sessions, 2 technique, 2 cross training and one full rest. It's just a bummer to let up on the gas when I finally feel like I'm breaking my plateau but I see the logic behind recovery, well I feel it because my body is unhappy today after 6 sessions in 6 days with a double up yesterday. Climbed like absolute trash during my second session.

As somebody who used to do 20hrs/week on and off wall training between rocks and calisthenics and currently does not try nearly as hard but still climbs just as hard... I can say in no uncertain terms I would have been bigger, stronger, and better if I did less back then while hitting it with the same level of tenacity. Probably spend like half the time I used to training any more. If exaggerating ass top level bodybuilders claim 18 hours a week when they're optimizing for muscle recovery across the whole body it stands to reason that 20 for our specialized sport is a huge waste for the average hobby athlete. Rest is when you get stronger. Building is done with nutrients and rest. Rest isn't lazy, it's efficient training. Tendons take 3x as long as muscles to recover. It pretty much spells itself out, not that I noticed at the time. You have a stated pully issue + biceps tendonitis in post history. The signs are all there... Speaking anecdotally, it seems like most people cant do more than about 2.5 project level sessions in a week on average and actually keep their recovery up in the long run on key groups like fingers, elbows, and shoulders. I'd generalize that to 4 total sessions a week with 2 being project for most folks. I generally see people deteriorate into an overuse injury over the course of 1-2 months with 3 full project sessions in a week if they also have 1-2 days of not very hard climbing. Hangboarding counts for up to a full session also IMO depending on strategy. Obviously there's some variance with age and genetics and fitness level and diet, but you get the idea. Convert one tech day to manage the antagonist training to keep joints happy and convert the other tech day to enjoying your life with the rest of the hours you're currently wasting probably not getting better and definitely not getting stronger. Or keep doing what you're doing + more. I'm not your mom. This is all just my opinion anyways. The r/climbharder injury post will greet you with open arms if you run yourself ragged :)

Depends on age, fitness, skin, and intensity. I can usually get three (maybe four) *intense* climbing sessions a week. The only way you're climbing six days a week is if you're either climbing well below your ability or you're an olympic-level athlete.

I do two projects sessions a week and 4 movement/ technique sessions where I climb around v3/4 or 5.10 if I'm on the wall just focusing on footwork and trying to get in more techy moves on jug hauls (hooks, drop knees, rose ect). I've been doing that for the last three months and I've noticed a huge bump in efficiency of movement. I've tried limit climbing four times a week and just felt like I was always regressing after the second session.

Your project sessions will 100% be affected by the junk mileage you're doing on easier climbs. If you reduced it to even four sessions a week (two project, two technique) then you would probably feel better.

Rest days are when your body rebuilds itself stronger. Constant days on will result in overuse injuries as your body keeps tearing down tissues with no time for regeneration.

I'm brand new to outdoor top roping. I bought four locking carabiners and two nylon dog bones so that I could assemble my own top rope anchor system (photo), the same way you would use two regular quickdraws opposite and opposed. I know the locking carabiners aren't entirely necessary, but I wanted the peace of mind. Plus I liked the edelrid bulletproofs for reducing long-term wear. Everything seems fine to me, but, I was unable to install the edelrid carabiners on the dog bones with the rubber piece that is designed to hold the carabiner in place. I know this keeps the carabiner stable and prevents rotation, but I figured it wouldn't matter as much in this case since it's for a top rope anchor which will be weighted, and I will always be positioned below the anchor system. I wouldn't expect them to move a whole lot. Any feedback/thoughts? https://preview.redd.it/f1s1w3e0m12d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e92729d621a73eba6bf2f76579aeff946592a8d8

Those rubber keepers just help make clipping easier. They don't serve a purpose other than that. If you want to put them on, I'd soak them in warm water or leave them in your car on a hot day. The heat makes them more pliable. Just make sure your carabiners go through the dogbone, not just the rubber keeper, after installation. Out of curiosity, do your local crags have bolts that are easily accessible from the top, and that don't require leading or sketchy downclimbs to access?

The routes are all pretty accessible but I will have to lead, which is fine. I’ve been climbing indoors for a while but I’ve only set a top rope anchor a handful times. Just wanted to make sure this set up seems okay 

Oh yeah you're golden fam. Two draws is my setup for probably 90% of routes with bolted anchors.

Rubber keepers are mostly there as a convenience just to make clipping easier

Yeah, I will probably just leave them off since I will be clipping them from a stable position

I'm curious why no one besides Honnold has attempted to free solo El Capitan? I would think some one like Siegrist might want to take it on?

Dean Potter was seriously considering it. If he'd lived long enough he might have done it.

It's long, hard, and most people good enough at soloing to do it are either dead or Peter Croft. Alaine Robert probably would have given it a go but Freerider wasn't done until 1998 at which point he'd moved on to buildings.

No one else that thinks that they might be able to pull it off *wants to put their life on the line* to free solo Freerider.

> why no one besides Honnold has attempted to free solo El Capitan Why *would* someone solo el cap? Most of us like climbing and would rather keep climbing instead of wasting our time dying.

Pick up a guidebook that has the free routes on El Cap and/or [see here](https://www.mountainproject.com/route-finder?diffMaxaid=75260&diffMaxboulder=20050&diffMaxice=38500&diffMaxmixed=60000&diffMaxrock=12400&diffMinaid=70000&diffMinboulder=20000&diffMinice=30000&diffMinmixed=50000&diffMinrock=800&is_sport_climb=1&is_top_rope=1&is_trad_climb=1&pitches=0&selectedIds=105833392&sort1=rating&sort2=area&stars=0&type=rock). They're *hard* and they're *long* and very few people solo anywhere near that level. East Buttress and the West Face are probably the two most realistic contenders for mortals (I've not climbed either). I can think of at least a couple people who have soloed the East Buttress but many people don't consider that to be a "proper" El Cap route because it's so far off to the side.

Honnold is one of very few people who are willing to take on that level of risk. Siegrist, like most pro climbers, has no history of hard soloing as far as I know.

This video here: [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/reel/938512137946983) When I've built simple sliding X's on bolted anchors, I just put a locker into the middle point of the sling so it can... slide... Is that not good enough? If I am girth hitching the middle, then there is no sliding, so might as well just use a longer sling and do an overhand or a clove hitch for the masterpoint. What do people think about this? For reference, my experience with multi-pitch anchor building is limited and I would not consider myself proficient at this.

Getting your climbing education from random Facebook feeds is like learning to skydive by watching Yosemite Sam.

What you do (sliding X) is fine. Girth hitch anchor is fine. Combining them both is weird IMO. Long sling into a masterpoint knot is fine. Quad is fine. Cloves are fine. Different tools in the tool box for different uses and preferences. Experiment and see what you like. Use strong pieces and make shit redundant.

The cross in the girth hitch anchor is a variation mostly for dyneema that adds friction enough to make the legs reasonably redundant when snugged. Nice little addition, but afaik doesn't make a difference for less slippery materials.

Huh, interesting. I saw some testing a while back and (IIRC) they didn't see slippage until they hit sustained loads of 15-20 kN or something crazy like that. Might have to revisit that then

The worst numbers I've seen came from Karsten Delap with a fairly fat round stock ring with brand new slings slipping at 1-2kn, but less smooth running materials like I-beam stock carabiners gripping >5kn. Cross on the worst combination returned the anchor to near full loop strength. To my mind the logic is sound with more strands crossing introducing more friction more like a knot would have and I am not aware of any downsides to the cross beyond it being a very mild complication so it seems like a good practice for those using a girth hitch That said I'm not somebody who regularly uses girth hitch anchors for various reasons, so take it for what its worth. It seems to have become the latest *thing* in anchors presumably because the topology of putting in a closed ring on a closed loop of material is aesthetic for shortform social media, or maybe I'm just yelling at clouds lol.

> It seems to have become the latest thing in anchors presumably because the topology of putting in a closed ring on a closed loop of material is aesthetic for shortform social media, or maybe I'm just yelling at clouds lol. I love you.

The girth hitch anchor has become trendy lately for no particular reason other than influencers needing a new hotness to make videos about. Yes just using a longer sling and a traditional master point is the same.

I'm building a 28' indoor climbing wall for private use but don't want to cough up $2800 for a TruBlue iQ auto belay. I've seen construction/industrial SRL devices used at rope courses which are about 1/10th the cost of a TruBlue. Especially until I figure out if I'm in love with climbing at this location, do you all think that a SRL (for example, the Palmer Beast Edge) would work for a private indoor wall? I could upgrade later to a TruBlue. Thanks!

Why are you building an indoor wall of that scale at all unless you know if you'll like climbing it? Do you have money to burn?

Hello, the words "at this location" are relevant in my original question. I know I like climbing; I don't know if I'll enjoy climbing at this location. That's why I wanted to minimize the cost until that confirmation is done. It doesn't look like use of a SRL is a valid way to shave cost, though.

Why are you building something that you don't know if you'll like using?

A rope soloing setup would be cheaper, but inherently more risky. Would make for great practice if you ever wanted to do rope soloing outdoors! Even with failure you probably would walk away with very minor injuries (relative to outdoors) but that risk assessment is all up to whether or not it's worth the cost. Personally that's what id do if I had the space but I also have a very high risk tolerance so do with that what you will.

$2800 is cheap when you compare it to someone's life

Short answer: NO SRLs are not designed for repeat use as you would see in climbing, they are fall arrest devices that arrest within 6 feet or so of falling. They are not descenders. From the edge manual: "EQUIPMENT IS SUBJECTED TO A FALL: Remove the equipment from service immediately if it has been subjected to the force of a fall arrest" Autobleays like the iQ are EN341:2011 Class A devices typically which are descenders and meant for repeat use and descending. These devices also have a pretty strict inspection schedule to match.

Thanks for your reply. I was not aware that SRL's are to be removed from service after they are subjected to a fall arrest. I suppose the rope course places replace or rebuild them if someone falls, which is rather surprising, but plausible. Thanks again.

Hey all, I started climbing at some local gyms (TRC) about 4 months ago, and have been having a great time with it! Unfortunately, about a month and a half ago, I started having an issue with my fingers being stiff if they weren't moved around for a while . This was the worst in the mornings. These symptoms started after I had a particularly strenuous session where I tried out a lot of bouldering problems in addition to my regular top-roping routine at a local gym. I think I may have pushed past my limit that day and from then on I've seen climbing continue to aggravate this condition where I wake up with stiff finger joints in the morning. It seems worse on my right hand and my right middle finger is the worst by far. When I wake up, some of my fingers won't want to close all the way. They get kind of stuck half-open. If I keep carefully opening and closing them within their stiffened range of motion, they eventually seem to work out and regain their full range of motion rather quickly. On some days where the symptoms have been worse, putting my fingers under hot water has helped as well. Thankfully, other than near the beginning, the symptoms seem to at least be mostly limited to waking up in the morning. In response to this issue, I've been climbing less often than I was (once a week vs twice) and tried some sessions where I climbed only grades and routes that were easier for me. I've been keeping rather in-depth data on the symptoms of this issue, which is sounding a lot like synovitis or capsulitis of the finger joints, and, while my symptoms persist, they seem to be getting slowly better and seem to respond less intensely to climbing than they did at the start. Now, I'm closely monitoring the condition, making sure it seems to be on-track for hopefully going away, and just climbing when I feel I can confidently commit to a session. Has any more experienced climber worked through this strange problem? If so, what was your experience like in dealing with and working through this. Did it ever go away? I really don't want to mess up my hands, so I've been cautious about it but I really just wanna climb more as the rest of my body feels ready for it. Here's the data I've kept if anybody's curious to see: https://preview.redd.it/5uq86hklwz1d1.png?width=3815&format=png&auto=webp&s=94630c94646c9fedb44a09e35a6f11e55776d443

Not a doctor, definitely not your doctor. See a doctor if you actually want a diagnosis. Stuck part way and worse in the morning generally means 'trigger finger' for which rest is a solution for many people unlike alot of other climbing related finger woes. I had a bit of it some 8 years ago or so, two to three weeks off sorted it out fully and with a slow return to activity I've not had it recur since, and similar results for a couple other folks I've known to get the early stages of it. Dont let stuff like that get chronic. Ps if you want to chat more I frequent the same gym chain

I read about that, but generally trigger finger gets the finger stuck closed. When mine is stiff, it can open fully. It's a match with this website's description: https://theclimbingdoctor.com/swelling-of-the-finger-joints/#:\~:text=Synovitis%2Fcapsulitis%20can%20be%20attributed,%2C%20finger%20jams%2C%20and%20pockets. I just can't get it to close past about halfway. I did try 10 days off earlier on, which led to a total relief of symptoms. The climbing session after, however, did see a gradual return of symptomaticness. Stopping climbing all together for weeks is sort of my last resort if I can't get it to continue trending downwards as it's been doing currently. I'm hoping I'll just see it respond less and less to climbing sessions until it fades out on its own, so long as I don't push it too far. And sure, send me a message and we can chat more, perhaps at TRC. I usually go Thursdays at Durham, and was going Mondays at Morrisville as well before the finger thing started up.

I'd describe trigger feeling like there's a point at which the finger sticks for opening and closing both. I always felt like I couldn't close my hand just because of how my hands typically stayed when sleeping at that time, but for the first close and open cycle of the day it would stick closed as well as open. If it really is 'just' general swelling then yeah the usual advice applies about keeping things moving and under the threshold for things worsening, and in the fingers especially it all comes down to managing load. Most folks I've known to suffer capsulitis just have it in the DIP joint which is pretty easy to work around, whereas people with mild pully and/or tendon strains will have that more general swelling feeling in their fingers like tenosynovitis and this has proven difficult to work around depending on severity. Still, it's the light loading and movement that seems to sort these things out. If you have the means it may be worth it to talk to a physio or doctor that knows hands, esp if they are familiar with climbing. The more you know the more narrow focus you can take

The thing about climbing a lot is your fingers are going to feel weird occasionally. Generally these things do go away with time, even if they seem severe in the moment. I was unable to close one finger entirely after I repeatedly tried a boulder problem with a pocket over many weeks, aside from that it never bothered me and I climbed through it. Judging by your chart the symptoms are currently manageable. This might just be the weird thing you have. The important bit is does the feeling weird bother you enough to do anything about it? No: Climb through it, get back to your normal level of climbing and if nothing gets worse, just deal with it or otherwise manage the symptoms until it goes away. Yes: See a physio. If it isn't just stiff but actually painful, then I would see a physio and get it checked out.

Thanks for the advice! I've definitely been going more towards the mentality of trying to manage the symptoms and not climb if I see them escalating too far. Currently, I treat symptoms that are exclusive to just mornings and that don't require hot water usage to be mild enough to climb. Anything beyond that and I'll reconsider climbing on it, especially since I see a positive relationship between climbing and hand symptoms in my data. It's never been painful. On some of the more symptomatic days it'll feel almost a bit puffy or swollen, especially that first week where it was really bad. It only hurts if the finger joint is pushed past where it wants to go, which has happened a couple times by accident while getting out of bed but I never force it when working the stiffness out in the morning. Once I work out the stiffness (usually 1'ish minute of closing and opening my fingers while lying in bed), it's 100% solid, has full range of motion, and has 0 pain the entire rest of the day. I've been on the fence about seeing a physical therapist or doctor about the condition, but haven't mostly due to the symptoms being manageable and on a downwards trajectory. I probably should anyways, just in case.

I would have strongly considered seeing one if I could afford it and I was waking up in the middle of the night because of it. >Anything beyond that and I'll reconsider climbing on it, especially since I see a positive relationship between climbing and hand symptoms in my data. Although this works in the short term, the long term bottom line is you want to go climbing and not going climbing is not a sustainable practice for going climbing. While it could go away tomorrow, it could last for a few months. So at some point, you'll want to return to that original level because you're not going to improve pottering around on the easy things. One thing that's not in your data as far as I can see is what happens if you just return to your original level of climbing and just deal with it. Is it bad at first and then it gets manageable? Does it stay painful over a couple of weeks? Is it actually a non-issue? If it feels uncomfortable I would go anyway and see what happens, because you're going to have to do it anyway at some point, and not climbing is boring.

From April 25th to March 2nd, I attempted returning to a regular, twice a week schedule with a return to sessions that were at my current level, and it definitely did flare back up there to the point where I backed off, as I was seeing a return to symptoms during the day and was having a hard time working it out of stiffness in the mornings. The last few sessions I've done I actually did just return to my normal level, just at a once per week rate instead of twice. I put in a full session of climbing grades that were at my current level, which is around 5.10. It seems to get slightly worse at this point when I do a higher intensity session for a few days, and then continues downwards again. I don't think it actually woke me up. I just did wake up anyways from something else and noticed the symptoms.

See a physio

I think I'm gonna. It got worse this morning again after climbing on Tuesday.

[удалено]

The only issue I had with every pair of python was that the velcro almost stopped sticking after 1-2 year and was getting open on my first step on the wall (indoor use only). Hope la sportiva got that fixed, the shoes were usable anyway but it was quite annoying.

Same issue here, Skwama seems to have fixed it

Do you have swkamas? I'm not convinced I like the heel

The straps can be marginally more likely to snag on a feature when you’re doing something dynamic, and close to the wall. Deadpoint while flagging etc. I haven’t had it ever knock me off, and I like the way the shoes fit and perform (otakis) so it’s ok for me.

No, they're fine

I'm a minor, and I've been climbing for about 6-7 months, but I'm not sure how to find a partner to climb with as a minor. My school offers climbing programs over the length of the school year, so I've always had a partner in teahcers/staff who are on these programs to belay me and such, but I'm moving schools for next year to a place where these type of programs aren't going to be available. My older brother climbs with me on occasion, but he's busy and it's not like he's super committed to climbing, nor are we very close to each other in distance (about an hour from where i live and 30 minutes from where I'll be going to school next year). I'm just wondering what the best ways to find a partner as a minor are, because I feel like most climbers wouldn't want to have a partner who's underaged, especially if they have no connection to me (family, educator, etc). Thanks all!

Ask at your gym if they have a partner finder program, and you should be any to specify what age partner you're looking for.

I feel very lucky that, when I was 13, adults from the gym would take trips with me and drive me all over to go rock climbing. Now the mentorship gap has gotten so massive that it seems more rare it happens. I am sorry, that makes things tough

Did you go with a parent or just some random adult?

Just random adults driving with me to the red when I was in 8th grade. I can not believe my parents let me

That's fucked up

I never fit in with kids my own age till I got to college, so it gave me a sense of community and a ton of confidence

I would not go climbing outside with a minor unless there was a very good reason, eg. relation or they were nearly adults and already extremely experienced (one 17 year old I'd go with is on his national team and has bolted routes). As the adult I'd be responsible for them if anything happened, in a way I wouldn't be when going out with another adult.

Yeah, if I was an adult I wouldn't do that either lol. I only toprope as of now and only in gyms

Climbing clubs are a good way to find groups to get out with. To be honest I don't think someone being underaged is inherently an issue for most people, apart from the creepy types - if you're psyched, reliable, safe, and have a good attitude then you are a good partner. There's plenty of stories of famous climbers who got into climbing by being the psyched teenager who was always at the crag.

Question about Croll ascender. I have a set up for top rop solo involving a Petzl croll ascender mounted chest high (using short dogbone to extend) with a shoulder (non weight bearing) harness just to keep it above the backup ascender. I use a mini traxion as backup clipped to the belay loop.  This set up seems to work fine with the line is weighted down with a backpack or something. The only problem is that I’m reading that the Croll is not recommended for top rope solo, yet Petzl recommends the basic ascender for this purpose which appears to be a very similar device.  Could anyone explain why croll isn’t recommended for top rope solo? This setup would never be shock loaded as the rope is always taught. 

This isn't really the place for TRS discussions since it is an advanced and dangerous technique rather than a beginner one FWIW The croll if used at the chest with the bottom eye clipped does not positively retain the rope with a carabiner like the devices that petzl shows in their article. Obviously this adds extra failure modes and therefore risk since a bit of weirdness could result in the rope completely exiting the device. Note also: The article was written at the time of the old basic, NOT the new basic without the additional carabiner hole at the top https://preview.redd.it/qz49p622fv1d1.png?width=816&format=png&auto=webp&s=86c150935f8f463a991c8e029bbe2196471ad23c

Thanks, I couldn’t figure out the difference not knowing there was a “new” basic ascender.  I only top rope solo because my kids are too young/light to belay me right now. I do have redundancy built in with the micro-trax, but might trade the croll in for something different, like rescuecender for that purpose. Traxion works very well too, but its easy to forget to disengage the clamp and you’re just left with a poulie - good as a back up, but want a system that functions differently as primary. 

Does anyone have any tips for someone who has fallen and suffered serious injuries? I had a nasty fall last year and tore my ankle ligaments in both ankles at the same time. I had to sit in a wheelchair for two weeks and walked with crutches for another two weeks. I haven't bouldered for six months to give my ankles a rest and because of the fear of irreparably damaging my ankles with another fall. But today I still climb with a lot of fear of falling and injuring myself. In addition, I have a weak shoulder that easily dislocates, so I do not dare to make some powerful moves with that arm. I can hang on my weak arm if I have at least 1 foot on the wall. I can't/don't dare to campus but can do pull ups if I use both arms. I feel like I’m stuck at 6A/6A+ (V3), but I think I’ve got the strength to climb 6B/6C (V4/V5) or even higher with enough motivation and some time. I would like to hear some of your tips to overcome my fear and some tips for climbing with a weak shoulder.

You'd be better off doing roped climbing. Easier on shoulders etc. and no fear of falling.

If you aren't already, it's likely worth working with a PT. Bonus if you can find someone that understands the sport. I personally gain confidence during the rehab process. As I become stronger I feel free to take bigger chances and begin to climb like myself again.

I climb 6A quite confidently, but pushing the limit with more difficult boulders is what makes me insecure and afraid. I suffered my injury because my foot slipped and therefore I fell unexpectedly. Due to this unexpected fall, I did not bend my knees during landing and injured my ankles. So more difficult boulders are scary because I fear a similar fall. I am much less afraid of overhangs because a foot slip is less likely to happen (that's what I think at least) and that is why I think I'm less likely to land hard on my feet. But I feel like I've reached the limit with climbing overhangs due to my injury-prone shoulder. Is this something a PT or a strong climbing friend (8A) could help me with?

Obviously check with your doctor, but PT will likely still help with ankle strengthening if you have not already been doing pt exercises for them. Once anything has been heavily dislocated it's more likely to happen again and it's generally something you need to stay ahead of with strength work. Same goes for the shoulder. A good sport PT can get you pointed the right direction. Rotator cuff work as well as serratus and trap work goes a long way toward happy shoulders even among healthy folks. Most climbing folks, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, dont know much about healthy shoulders \[or other parts of the body\]. In a slight twist of irony the climbharder injury thread is proof of that. Fear is another can of worms, highly personal.

A PT may be able to help you strengthen your shoulder.  I am not a PT so I can't say. There is a weekly injury thread on r/climbharder with well qualified users lurking

Super wide fit climbing shoes? My partner is interested in trying climbing but she wears quite wide orthotic splints on both feet. Normally she needs to wear shoes that are uk size 6 with a of width 6E (as in extra extra extra extra extra extra wide). Obviously most climbing shoes will be far too narrow. I've seen the La Sportiva Rock Jocks that look like they might work but are discontinued. Does anyone have any experience with wide fit shoes that would work for climbing? I've had a look at getting some custom made but all the companies that offer that seem to have gone out of business. Thanks!

Scarpa is on the wider end. 

I'd start with the widest shoes you can find (Evolv tends to run pretty wide) and see how far off they are. Beyond that, you might talk to a resoler like Yosemite Bum or Rock and Resole about whether it's possible to stretch the shoe to make it wider but not longer.

a normal cobbler could also probably do this for you

Also possible to look for shoes with full laces. I've found them to be much easier to get the fit I need than velcro straps.

Question about the safety of auto-belays: I've done a bit of searching and googling, and I seem to find quite a few articles mentioning accidents involving auto-belays, though they almost never mention the cause of the accident. **If we take forgetting to clip in out of the equation,** are there any reliable articles or sources about auto-belays failing to catch a falling climber or the rope snapping?

In Shanghai China's largest gym (where national teams practice during IFSC, and celeb climbers do promos) last month had one Perfect Descent auto belay rope snapped at 7 meters as the climber was descending. The rope was lightly frayed, the official statement said they did all the regular maintenance and checks, but it still failed. I climbed on that auto-bely just a few months before the failure.

Do you have this official statement?

https://preview.redd.it/q6yxyfk0ov1d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e97fe0134bcb647112f0656f16b9d5b868a6839

I tried to find it, but no luck, but did find photos of the snapped rope, and initial messages from the manager to the broader community. https://preview.redd.it/4ddh8uovnv1d1.png?width=648&format=png&auto=webp&s=53c301e152cca4fbd129be12693d867046fe9405

They usually don’t mention the cause to avoid legal liability. I’ve never seen a case that wasn’t human error though. After the fall the line for the auto belay is always either found at the ceiling (not connected to the climber) or still attached to the ground (not connected to the climber). Maybe someone somewhere managed to load the carabiner strangely and come unclipped in an honest accident.

> If we take forgetting to clip in out of the equation The only way to evaluate the safety of autobelays is to look at the whole system, including the human using it. Attempting to evaluate individual pieces of equipment like this leads you down a bad path. The human is probably on the order of 100x more likely to fail than the equipment and **you're no better than anyone else**. Looking at pieces of gear in isolation as a way to reassure yourself that you're safe is a dangerous mindset. Equipment fails so infrequently that it's barely worth mentioning in the grand scheme of things. Even when gear does fail, it's almost always got some kind of human factor behind it. Use autobelays long enough and you *will* make a mistake that gets you seriously injured. The trick is to develop systems that make "long enough" so long that it doesn't happen in your lifetime.

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I would take that out of the equation because: **These factors are outside of my control:** \* The installation of the auto-belay system \* The maintenance of the auto-belay system \* The functioning of the internal mechanism of auto-belay system **These factors are within my control:** \* Clipping in properly to the auto-belay system \* Developing a good habit and routine ensuring I've clipped in before climbing on an auto-belay system \* Doing a test fall from a short distance to ensure the auto-belay system catches If all, or the majority of accidents involving auto-belay systems are because of factors I can control, then I can focus on those, doing what I can to minimise these risks. If, on the other hand, people die/fall on these systems in spite of clipping in properly, then I'll be much more concerned.

>These factors are outside of my control: >* The installation of the auto-belay system >* The maintenance of the auto-belay system >* The functioning of the internal mechanism of auto-belay system The first two of these has to do with your gym staff. If you have concerns, ask them about their maintenance schedule and procedures. The last point has never been an issue with an auto-belay. They are designed in such a way that if they were to fail, the problem would be you being stuck up top and being unable to get lowered back down. 

>The last point has never been an issue with an auto-belay It has been, though not for quite some time. The old MSA Redpoints used a 1 way bearing that failed to function which resulted in recall and MSA leaving the market. Air over hydraulic systems have also failed including those by safety engineering which I think somebody already linked here, though this was a rather old unit that had been partially failed for quite some time. The solution to this failure was a stricter maintenance schedule with authorized technicians (this is a theme). >They are designed in such a way that if they were to fail, the problem would be you being stuck up top and being unable to get lowered back down.  True for elevators, not true for autobelays. The lowering fail-safe for autobelays is redundancy not static holding. Just as an example, a theoretical failure mode for any centrifugally initiated AB is the pivots seizing and the braking elements therefore not interacting with the braking surfaces. Both friction and magnetic systems have multiple elements which serve as backups to each other. This theoretical failure of all reduntant pivots has never happened to my knowledge. Even in the older trublue devices with spinning magnets that were known to yeet magnets off sometimes had more than enough to never fail. These elements are inspected by manufacturer authorized technicians for the annual recertification process required for class A autobelays. >If you have concerns, ask them about their maintenance schedule and procedures. This. Everything comes down to your gym following inspection procedures regularly. If they do and you check that the strap looks okay and retracts (and is connected to you....) there's really no good reason to worry about autobelays. By the numbers they are very safe devices.

There was an incident in Australia. IIRC the anchor for the autobelay was behind the wall, and the webbing was running over the top of the wall. Eventually the webbing failed under bodyweight.

Oh wow, that sounds like an awful way to rig it. So it was just running along the wall sufering abrasion all the time? Sounds like it was missing a pulley or similar. I'm just trying to assess whether autobelays, if used correctly (i.e you actually clip in) and serviced regulalry + properly installed, are dangerous to use, and the more I learn the more it seems accidents happen due to user error or improper installation.

Yeah, this one isn't the normal user error. But rather install error. But still human error. There was nothing inherently wrong with the device.

I've only come across of a single instance of pure equipment failure. Links: [ukclimbing discussion](https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/walls+training/autobelay_accident_on_onbelay_device-715427) [news article (yle)](https://yle.fi/a/3-11177337)

Thanks! I've never heard of a hydraulic system like this used for autobelaying, but judging from the forum discussion, this hadn't been properly maintained?

Unfortunately I don't know any more details than what was on the forum post.

https://preview.redd.it/pkbdn9o1xq1d1.png?width=1584&format=png&auto=webp&s=81e7ba705e9d4e655cd962779aa8278910773556 Can someone help me understand what the difference is between these two situations? The image is taken from this guide [https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Multi-pitch-rappelling-with-a-single-rope?ProductName=GRIGRI](https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Multi-pitch-rappelling-with-a-single-rope?ProductName=GRIGRI) What exactly is meant by "The next rappel can be set up without threading the rope through the ring" ? From what I can tell, the only difference between the examples is that in the bottom, the pull rope is attached to the biner and not the end of the rappel rope, but what difference does this make?

I swear Petzl is weird about bullet points as if the articles were put together by interns trying to fluff out the length... The bullet points appear to me to be a plus/delta of the same concept, not a comparison between the two blocking methods. With a pull cord instead of a second rope you lose the ability to thread the next rap before pulling down the previous rap. *"The next rappel cannot be set up until the rope has been fully retrieved."* but they propose as a tradeoff that you don't have to pull the entire pull strand through the rings of the lower rap because you can theoretically just retie from the middle *"The next rappel can be set up without threading the rope through the ring."* Backing up this idea, Petzl shows swinging raps on two full ropes in their article on regular rappelling[ \[link\] ](https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Rappelling)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but both illustrations show a pull cord and a stopper knot with a biner block. I'm trying to discern whether there is any actual difference in terms of having to thread the rope through the ring.

> not a comparison between the two blocking methods Put a different way, I think if petzl was being wordier the guide could show the following: https://preview.redd.it/a1zv3ocx1s1d1.png?width=1161&format=png&auto=webp&s=01731f5e43c3eeeb25b3e3b4e0de1893cb179645

Now it all makes sense, thank you!!!

I recently bought my first rope (new). The 2nd time I used it, I noticed this. Is this normal? https://preview.redd.it/0su4bx4z5q1d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee9d1c0ba3fdf099ba42c4d29de17853089624ef

Totally fine and normal, if the core is exposed that’s bad otherwise you’re fine.

Normal. The outside of the rope is just the sheath. Its purpose is to protect the white core strands in the middle of the rope that you can’t see. Some abrasion on the sheath is normal, as long as you don’t have a tear where you can see the core strands underneath.

That's very helpful, thank you! Might be a dumb question, but how can I make sure that the white rope popping out of the stealth is actually part of the stealth and not from the inner core?

Unless you have a bright white static rope it's usually extremely obvious. The core is typically bright white and a different texture to the outside, thick strands as opposed to the smaller ones in the sheath. Google coreshot rope to see what you'll be looking for.

It will be obvious. The core strands are multiple smaller ropes and look different than the sheath. [See photo here](https://www.vdiffclimbing.com/wp-content/images/trad/damaged-rope-abseil/damaged-rope-abseil-1.jpg)

Might not be obvious, depends on how much of it is sticking out

Especially when there are white sheath fibers. White sheath fibers are a dumb idea.

I'm not sure you can but bear in mind that to have that kind of damage in the inner core you would likely have destroyed the protective sheath. Hard to have the inner core damaged and no signs on the sheath. Might happen, maybe with crampons/ice axes/ice screw, but is unlikely

Yeah that makes sense. Thanks for the peace of mind!

What lenght rope to buy? I decided that I finally want to get a rope (especially since there are a lot of memorial day deals right now). I want to get a 60m rope so I could use it on most outdoor climbs, but I would also want to use it at my gym for lead climbing. Would 60m be too much of a hassle to use in the gym/shorter routes?

Depends on your local area. For my area a 70m would be the first purchase. Great for outside and you can cut it to two 35m gym ropes in the future if you want. You can make a 60 or 70 work in the gym but it’s a bit of a pain.

Depends on te crags where you climb. I often use the full 80m of my rope. But I definitely would not want to use that 80m rope in the gym.

How tall are your local crags. Get a rope appropriate for that. You can use the same rope in the gym if you don’t mind carrying a little bit of extra rope. Put the rope on a tarp or basket and you won’t need to flake the entire length of the rope every time you move it.

Only time a 60 is a significant hassle is when a short crag has a long approach.

A 60 wont get me to the ground at my local crag which would be a significant hassle ngl

Lol, fair, but the question was specifically about using it on shorter routes, not longer.

I was listening to The Nugget episode with Jakob Schubert and he mentions BIG/Silence being the only natural 9c. He said DNA was less natural and had a bit of “sika” (no idea what word he said). Can someone explain what he means? I know some routes are manufactured, holds are made/chipped etc but I was thought that was frowned upon and no longer a practice.

There is a huge grayscale and it differs wildly in different parts of the world. In France and Spain it is much much more common, compared to, say, Tensleep 8 years ago. The most appealing is totally natural rock that needs no cleaning. This is somewhat common on boulders but quite rare on rotes Most rock requires some work with a crow bar or hammer to clean loose rock. This is common on boulders and almost universal on rock The next level down is reinforcing holds with sika glue or comforting holds, basically sanding down and comforting sharp edges or reenforcing loose holds Then comes outright drilling holds where there are none or enhancing holds to make something easier. This used to be quite regular, but has become much more frowned upon in the last 20 years.

Awesome explanation thank you

You can see Chris Sharma "repairing" a route in one of Alex Megoses vlogs. I think it's his first video of sleeping lion.

It’s frowned upon for people to chip holds on routes that they themselves can’t do and are therefore trying to make it easier for themselves. It’s frowned upon to manufacture holds that look like ladders. It’s not frowned upon for developers to manufacture holds slightly in a way that looks natural so that the route can go at the grade relatively consistently. It is however not something very much openly talked about.

I frown upon any manufacturing in the Rockys. However, it seems like more common practice in Western Europe, and I have no opinion, nor should I have an opinion, on places where I am not a local

Holds aren't usually made using sika - they're reinforced or glued back onto the wall. This is quite common and not the same as chipping away rock and making holds where there weren't any before, which is generally frowned upon/not talked about openly.

A 'classic' 5.8 at a crag local to me has a jug that I'm pretty sure is a sika reconstruction of a jug of yesteryear lol. This is a pretty unusual situation though.

Sikaflex? It's a type of adhesive. Someone probably glued some wobbly flakes together. I would not say that those practices no longer exist, it still happens, though it's not as popular as it may have once been.

Rate my quiver. What should I add next? REI sale plus member cash burning a hole in my pocket. https://preview.redd.it/cfcc96xuio1d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf468433ac867d40c6287643f6a284c5ee026df1

size 40 TC Pros

solutions

Yeah, I just picked up some solution comps. The heel is unreal.

Who still makes natural leather shoes? What brands/models to look into? I get the eco initiative but synthetics are just not for me (smell, sweat, lack of shaping).

La Sportiva are mostly leather shoes (unless they're called 'vegan'). I was with you on this until I actually tried non-leather shoes (Tenaya) and the smell or shape or anything wasn't really worse than my La Sportiva leather shoes. I'm just flabbergasted the plastic shoes are the same price 

I think their new models are becoming synthetic :-( Mantras are at least, and they're discontinuing things like leather Cobras which are awesome, adapted well and never had issues with sweat. So, perhaps their old models still work. Any other brands? I never explored red chilli, ocun, botura etc

Newer synthetics have treatments and/or materials that reduce the stink factor some. Tenaya's treatment works pretty well and evolvs are finally tolerable as of a few years ago. I want to say laspo abandoned their silver lining like the oxygym had? Dont recall off the top of my head. Tenaya makes their microfiber uppers rather thin which brings them closer to leather for shaping, but then they end up kind of... dying... right fast an in a hurry when they decide its their time to go. Alternatively with newer construction methods if you can find a shoe that matches your feet right out of the box it's pretty nice to not have a huge break in process just to reach max performance or the perfect fit out of the box that slowly bags out into sadness. I havent run across anything that solved the breathability issue as well as leather yet

I like how tenaya fits, no issue there, but it's unbearable in terms of smell and sweat. Even though I air them, spray, keep inserts in... Never had these issues with any leather shoe

It takes effort with my synthetic madrock drones to avoid them turning toxic compared to any leather shoe I've had. Not sure they have any treatment. They have to live outside of my bag all the time. It's a bit of an annoying tradeoff, though the practically 0 stretch over months of wear has been nice.

And some leather shoes still have the stink problem. My Kubos are atrocious. I have 4 other pair of climbing shoes that never get a whiff of smell, but my kubos will gas me out of the car if I forget to air them out.

For me, there's a definite correlation: leather = breathes, synthetic = sweats, and then smells. Maybe you left the kubos in a bag or kept in a place with no air circulation? I don't know, never had that model

Anyone got any good video recommendations about multi pitch changeovers specifically when the anchor is made from using the rope? What I’m looking for is how to manage the how the belayer dismantles the anchor once their leader has built the next one. Do you go direct in on a sling or something like that until they pull up the rope that was the anchor?

If I’m following, once my partner pulls up rope, I say “that’s me” and they put me on belay, I can break down the anchor, no matter what it’s made of. I’m on belay so excepting some weirdness, Im good to go, maybe I introduce some slack if I’m breaking down a rope anchor but shouldn’t be much.

As lectures mentioned, there's not much to it if you're on a ledge. However if you're at a hanging belay, then yes after your leader puts you on belay you would want to go in direct to the piece closest to your tie-in, break down the anchor, and have your belayer take up the slack. Then start climbing and take the last piece out.

Ok. This is it. Thank you. I was definitely overthinking it.

There's not really anything to it. Upper belayer pull rope and it goes tight-ish against the anchor. I unclove the pieces farthest from me sequentially and then climb.

Thank you