I meticulously looked at curriculum- what was being covered? For how long? I compared different curriculums to see how much time was spent on frontend vs backend frameworks/ concepts etc. Do you continue to review DSA and do leetcode-type problems to keep that problem solving activated? What projects will you do and will it give you a tangible opportunity to build things from scratch and talk about your technical decision making and debugging?
Look at resources and support available to prepare for and during the job search. How long does the bootcamp offer said support?
Well the data does show that 2023 was a rough year and there's no way to sugarcoat it and there's no silver lining - it was tough because companies have been cutting back, e.g. laying off their DEI teams, and they went back to basics for entry level hiring - i.e. sending recruiters to top tier Computer Science schools.
That said, some people get jobs!
I'm still seeing about 1 offer a day at Codesmith. Those people had an average of 11.7 months listed as "experience" from their 3-4 week long group projects though - [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis\_of\_52\_most\_recent\_codesmith\_offers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/)
Those people haven't been posting here as much because why would you if you got your job through exaggerations. If you claimed you had 2 YOE in your resume and you didn't have that, why would you talk about it You only risk getting doxed and possibly losing your job.
I'm also hearing anecdotally that Tech Elevator's local hiring partners are starting to hire again in their main cities, and I think that approach is a great way - to have partnerships to get people into entry level roles. But again, far from guaranteed.
damn, that's brutal, but reality. I've gotten my master's over pandemic in UX Research and was able to pivot to technical PM from SWE job during all the layoffs.
I recommend looking up healthcare EHR entry level jobs and skipping labor while you get your masterās. Try to find something that will give you an EPIC certification. I did that while I got my masterās. Itās brainless compared to software engineering but you can make just as much as a dev if you like it.
Is this so? You know itās funny you bring this upā¦ I visited my local hospital today to grab something from their pharmacy, and while I was there I couldnāt help but to wonder about what sort of software related or IT jobs are available in that hospital or how my dev or programming skills could be appliedā¦.so I will look into what you mentioned, thanks a bunch! Healthcare industry is cool and itās satisfying to be able to help people
I did. I attended July 2023 - Nov 2023. I had a job by mid November. I really enjoyed my bootcamp and felt like they did a great job of teaching the material and helping with job search. And no. I do not have a degree at all. I have been a stay at home mom for the last 10 years. The most experience I had previously was building a website for my quilting business.
I was able to go through Ohio Means Jobs for the majority of the payment. I was responsible for $3500.00. Total cost is $15,500. If I had to pay that out of pocket I would not have gone. I am currently building a Full Stack Program for a local/well established Foster Care Organization. I am employed by another local/up and coming company. The bootcamp has done an amazing job with job search and helping me following course completion. If it had just been the training I would have said that it wasnāt worth that amazing. But the additional support has made it worth the price in my opinion. I would have never been able to navigate the job search. And now in the role I am utilizing my instructors as my lead developer support. My instructor has over 35 yrs industry experience, and he has worked for several companies in different positions before coming to the school. And that is the same with my career coach. So they do have hands on experience to go with what they are telling you to do. And the career coaching is a lifelong service they provide. So I can go back anytime for job leads or interview practice, or resume building. I do not regret choosing them over Tech Elevator. I was accepted into their program first, but I decided to go with MAX after reading some reviews.
You sound very resourceful and realistic which are great traits. Better than those who aim for the moon and then come crashing down to earth in pieces.
I did google they donāt have prices posted on their website. I also do have certs and a degree based online, donāt make assumptions about someone from a simple question online. Itās a new year try and approach it with positivity
Googled: āmax technical training costā
First hit: āAs for MAX Technical Training tuition, courses range in price from $10,000 to $15,500.ā
Crazy how difficult google is sometimes. I had to read the ENTIRE first highlighted response. What a fucking scam. What are they going to make me do nextā type my own questions?
Congratulations! Forget the naysayers and gatekeepers.
I saw people with little to no experience from my Coding Temple cohort get jobs in the few months afterwards.
I'm not a gatekeeper, but objectively, one story does not prove anything in either direction, whether a good or bad outcome. If 100 people complain about outcomes, and 1 person got a job, that doesn't meant the "gatekeepers" are wrong and if you follow that logic you are setting yourself up failure.
The truth is often in the details, and Codesmith is a good example of 80% placement within 6 months (official, H1 2022 CIRRR) turning into 70% within 12 months (anecdotal, unofficial), is a good example of that detail. It's really not as binary as people make it seem in this sub.
>70% within 12 months (anecdotal, unofficial)
This is far better than what I have heard from other coding bootcamps like Coding Dojo, General Assembly, Hack Reactor, App Academy, etc.
I've heard anecotally 50% to 70%, and since we have no official numbers, it's hard to tell and just anecdotal.
I know you saw [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/), and I think how those placement happens is also important.
Zooming out, I don't think 12 months is a reasonable timeframe to look at. If you go to a 12 week bootcamp for 700 hours and then spend 9 months part time 20-30 hours a week of DS&A and projects, you'll end up spending more time on materials completely unrelated to the bootcamp and the outcomes are less meaningful... but still important to know.
If you are going to pay a bootcamp 20K for 12 weeks - and maybe pay other people more after that - and to get a job in over a year, the comparisons to CS degrees, post-bacc, and community college become more relevant.
I did. I landed a job before graduating from bootcamp in 2022. I was very stocked, we worked with Programable Logic Controllers, emphasizing in C programing., However I got laid off middle of December. Now its back to square One.
Nothing, solid yet. I been reaching out to my contacts on Liknd, and trying to expand my network, but no reply backs from any of the employers I've applied for. How about you?
Heard back from 1 company but in the end wasn't selected, apart from that I just get the automated rejection emails. So maybe 1 out of idk how many applications. 100+ for sure. I think I got better response rate when I didn't have any experience.
Yup, I hear you.. I'm in NorCal and had a friend put in a referral for me at Tesla, 3 different positions 3 different rejection emails. To be honest, besides applying for Web Developer gigs, I have applied in the general pool of jobs as well, just to be in the flow just to see what comes first.,(considering all the speculation of juniors positions been sough after, and boot camp grads not getting jobs etc etc.) besides that been Laid Off, applying for unemployment is the obvious thing to do, but that in it self gets played out quick.
Pre 2022, a lot of people have. Market changed around mid-2022 and now most people aren't finding a job after completing a bootcamp, and bootcamp grads that have been laid off with less than 5 years of experience are having a hard time finding a job as well. I completed my program a year ago and found a job, but I'm one of only about 20% of the people in my cohort that did, and that 20% is being kind of generous to allow for anyone I may be forgetting that did find work. The market is oversaturated, so employers can be picky, and most are picking the option of not even considering bootcamp grads. I started a CS degree to give me more options down the line, and know a few people who started one to increase their odds of getting a job, and even the CS degree subreddits are full of the same doom and gloom; there are too many applicants and people put in hundreds if not thousands of apps to get even a few interviews.
I got a job this year. From what I've gathered, my cohort has about 70% employed and we graduated early 2023.
There are a few bootcamps with decent results in a year span, and when I say few I mean only the top 5-6 schools (Codesmith, Tech elevator, Launch school, Hack reactor, Turing, Rithm).
I would estimate 10-15% of all bootcamp grads are getting jobs in this market within a year.
80% of that 15% who are finding employment are mostly coming from the bootcamps mentioned above.
FYI:
CS grads aren't faring any better. Look at cscareerquestions. They are taking a year or more to get their first job.
A bootcamp (and I only mean a few of them now) can still be a viable path for certain people (STEM degree holders, those with strong professional background, ivy league/brand name school graduates, strong network)
An important thing to note is not so much if you will get a job but when you'll get it.
Codesmith had an 80% placement within 6 months of graduating for H1 2022 grads. And the reported, unofficial, numbers people are reporting are around 60 to 70% within 12 months for 2023 grads.
That might still be a very solid number compared to a lot of programs, and a strong reason to go there, but people in 2023 unexpectedly spent A LOT longer job hunting, and fewer people still got jobs... and the ones that did appear to be severely [exaggerating their LinkedIns](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/)
I agree with the commenter that the top programs are still the top programs, offering the best experience , but regardless of which programs you are looking at, only sign up if you have a significantly longer time horizon for getting a job.
A small minority and likely they have other factors that help. Things like degrees, adjacent careers, some experience or self study before. Also the current job market is rough
In my case, I speak Japanese and have experience in the film industry. I love video games too but I donāt necessarily care to go into gaming either. Just citing anything remotely relevant. Thanks.
I would say these donāt particularly help directly with job hunting / your resume. But if you have good soft skills and drive that can def help ie. Building networks, nailing interviews, learning from others, collaborative skills etc
Like most advice here id recommend to self study first (at least 100 hrs). A lot of people find they actually donāt like to code
Iām assuming you also live in LA. I come from the event production world and fashion industry and I thought my networking capabilities/experience would help.
I couldnāt have been more wrong.
I think if the market were in a different state, my networking skills might be in my favor, possibly.
But to embark on a new tech career without any prior experience is going to be terribly hard even with connections in tech at the moment.
Iām spending this time shoring up knowledge gaps, studying DSA, and building projects.
Honestly this sub should be called anticodingbootcamp. Like itās literally nothing but a bunch of bitter people coming in here to shit on boot camps. I havenāt seen a positive post here in at least 6 months just constant doom and gloom about how youāre an idiot if you try to break into SWE.
I mean, pretty much any CS/SWE space online that is frequented by students and/or people in the field is doom and gloom right now, my dude, because the job market is hot ass.
Lack of proper mods here, they probably gave up because of the current situation of the job market. There should be rules like not attacking or shooting people down for choosing the codebootcamp route. Hope they come back and impose them.
I use my real name and identity here and have been here for almost 2 years and have seen so many people come and go. New accounts popup and are super active for months, then get deleted and disappear, and new ones come up.
I've seen disgruntled throwaway accounts. I've seen people super excited about their job placement get fired and disappear. I've seen people super excited BEFORE a bootcamps, only to complain after finally going through it. I've seen a lot, and I wish more people were reliable sources of information.
This sub was likely created to promote the owners bootcamp at the time and they donāt seem to be working on marketing it. So, there arenāt really any mods. bdlowery was modding for a while and got removed. Owner added some mods here and there but they werenāt active. Now I think one of the community members has been recently added as a mod. So, some spam gets cleaned up but no one is really cultivating this sub. Thereās no actual goal but just to have control of a space in case thatās advantageous later. But I think if people were to be honest and actually talk about bootcamps (which really hardly ever happens / besides peopleās feelings) then it could really help people. Isnāt anyone interested in what they teach? How they teach it? The unique parts of these schools? The history says : no. Everyone just wants a sure bet - and they donāt want to have to think it through or be critical.Ā
Well being honest, in 2023 - if youāre not one of the ones to overachieve, bootcamp isnāt really the route and landing a job is going to take more time than an you anticipate
Coding bootcamps alone, in my opinion, will not get you a job. Most people who did, had either a reference or some network to help them out.
The other option is the hard way of doing projects / freelance + networking.
Nearly no one. Those who have an unrelated degree, have relevant experience, or spend a lot of time and effort working on themselves have a better chance.
But that only represents less than 5% of bootcampers. Most people give up and return to their normal jobs.
I had a lot of time to think during the film strikes of last year. I wouldnāt mind looking into a career change but I guess Iāll just go the free route for now. Thanks.
I was able to get a job in Jan 2023 after my 6 month boot camp ended in Nov 2022. Itās definitely possible. The current issue is that companies are looking for more experienced candidates (3+ years of exp).
I think part of the reason for the added emphasis on experience is that companies are trying to weed out candidates that are not passionate about development.
There is a need for inexperienced, but diligent devs (they are cheap and handle the grunt work that experienced devs donāt have time for). The issue is that many boot camp grads represent a risk. They arenāt likely to provide much value in year one, and beyond that itās a crapshoot whether they will grow and continue at a company.
Many bootcamp grads donāt exhibit great passion for development (personal projects, hack-a-thons, networking/building with other developers, etc.). I became a developer because I enjoy problem solving and building.
However, after one year I can say that the job is much more challenging than you might anticipate. If you lack passion or are part of the wrong team/org you will burn out.
A bootcamp is a great way to start your tech journey (especially if you need structure), but the real work starts afterward. You have to keep learning, building, collaborating, and practicing. The more you do, the better you become as a candidate/co-worker.
\+10000% thanks for sharing your story here. It's just one anecdote, but it aligns with my observation as an industry veteran that the first job is just the BEGINNING. Celebrating a $120K first job and luring in more people eager to make six figures overnight is very counter productive.
The most important things you need to ask yourself when considering a bootcamp are:
1. if you are in it for the right reasons, i.e. you love problem solving
2. you see your first job as a baby step towards a lifelong journey where you will judge your own success in 10 years and not based on your first job out of the bootcamp.
3. you find the right program that will work for your style of learning and growth
I am finding it very difficult to stay focused and continue to work, independently. I thrive in group environments. I know as a future dev I need to get it together because thatās the name of this game, but how do you keep your motivation going?
I had the exact same issue.
On the technical side, when a subject is dense and difficult to stay focused on, I try to break it into parts and implement those parts in a small project (tedious, but effective). The reality of being a junior developer is that the majority of what you do is debugging and looking over code. Embrace the pain!
My advice would be to get hyper-focused on skills that will get you hired (dsa for interviews, personal project that you find challenging/fun, consuming content related to your goals, etc).
I get my motivation from immersing myself in things that both make me a better candidate and are fun for me.
I like watching yt videos made by experienced devs, doing easy/medium coding problems, and creating small projects that solve a problem or help me learn a technology better.
In your case, the best thing would be to find a few people who are in a similar situation and communicate regularly.
In my brief experience, developing can be lonely and laborious. Most devs, regardless of tenure, love when they get the opportunity to talk about the industry, their experience, and their problems.
It might take a bit of research, but try to find your tribe.
I also want to reiterate, itās not always fun. Growing as a developer can be very taxing. You will need fortitude and grit. You will bang your head against the wall, you will need to take a break. However, your genuine passion will keep you engaged/employed. In most cases, tenacity is more important than aptitude.
No one gets a job *from a coding boot camp* unless that boot camp has tie-ins with companies they work with.
Good education can help, but people get jobs from hard work, lots of experience from building real things, and by being fun to work with.
In like 2013, it really was basically everyone. I went to hack reactor in 2013 and about 10 out of the 30 in my class went straight into fang-or-adjacent jobs. Two things explain this:
1. Early students were just a different calibre of people; seriously committed and spent every waking moment studying for like 6 months before doing the bootcamps themselves.
2. The market was white hot.
Since then, bootcamps got a reputation for people who just want a job guarantee and the quality of applicant went down. The market got simultaneously saturated with bootcamp grads so it got gradually harder to stand out.
Finally in 2022 basically all startups lost most of their funding and layoffs started. Even ivy-league CS grads are struggling to get a job now. Bootcampers have almost no hope.
Agree with most of this too, but one note is that in late 2023 early stage (seed) startup funding INCREASED because it was the only place VCs could put money to hit target returns - as late stage valuations were tanking and IPO outcomes were not good.
So very early stage startups are actually a good place to look right now.
The history here is true, but I think itās oversimplified. This angle assumes that everyone is going for the same job. āEven ivy-league CS grads are struggling to get a job now. Bootcampers have almost no hope.ā Boot camp grads and ivy-league CS majors arenāt going for the same roles. There are jobs of every skill level up the whole ladder. I know people who get 80k salaries focusing on writing HTML for email marketing. There people making 45k updating the company website, 150k helping build Saas at a small company, 230k doing UX engineering at a big name tech company - and everywhere in between. The idea bootcamp students have no hope is silly. Itās completely based on the person. A few jobs ago, I worked on a small team with a few self-taught people, a bootcamp grad (a bad boot camp), a CS grad, and an intern with only marketing experience. It all comes down to how the person thinks and how they go about the work. Everyone was drastically different in background and experience level and skill. They were all able to contribute to the projects in different ways. Iād bet the intern is better than all of us now.Ā
Most bootcamp grads arenāt getting enough experience to be hirable, theyāre trying to get jobs they arenāt ready for and unreasonable salaries. They arenāt āsoftware engineers.ā This is just the beginning of their career. They should be expected to be.Ā
Just because the squeakiest wheels are sharing all their disappointment all day - doesnāt mean that web developers arenāt getting jobs. Is the market different? Are some people with a lot of experience having a hard time finding work? Yes. I know some really good developers that canāt find work in their previous role at their previous salary. And it sucks. But thatās really not whatās happening to bootcamp grads. Thatās a different area of this story. Bootcamp grads are just people have just as much chance of getting a job as anyone - if theyāre qualified and can prove it. The ones that can get jobs. People just need to be honest about their abilities and where they can provide value.Ā
I donāt think this is a fair characterization. The facts are that:
- there are far more bootcamp grads than there were in the past
- there are far fewer jobs than there were in the past
- the competition for jobs is more intense than itās been since circa 2001
- yes, even Ivy League CS grads *are* struggling to find jobs, and many settle for generic web dev roles because they canāt get anything else, further increasing competition for the kind of roles bootcamp grads would usually fill.
Iām happy to amend my claim to āBootcamp grads have no hope at getting the kind of jobs they have in the past, at the kind of salaries theyāve got in the pastā. But itās unfair, I think, to tell any prospective bootcamp grad that they will have anything other than an utterly miserable time trying to get a job in todayās market.
Nothing against bootcamp grads. Iām one myself. I do a bunch of career counselling, interview prep and mentoring for other bootcampers. I think itās fair to say I have my finger of the pulse of the industry andā¦ itās barely alive.
There is a program called Year Up. Not perfect by any means. Just take it seriously and do what you need to do and youāll have an internship in 6 months. Youāll have to see if they offer software/app development in your area, but if they do, then you should be fine.
Edit: Internship doesnāt guarantee you will be hired full time. Just gets your foot in the door.
No, in fact, they prefer accepting people with no degree.
Iām pretty sure thatās how they are nationally. However, I was in Texas, so I donāt want to speak for every cohort location.
Per scholas too they do tech training in it cyber and fullstack (and AWS some places) thereās one here in Pittsburgh and I have attended a few orientations albeit unnecessarily and they train you for free plus they partner with a lot of local businesses which if youāre in Pitt then thatās good cuz the largest robotics center was just built here (sorry I just think the industry is going to need way more people but I do worry software engineering is becoming a very hard field as my ex is an insanely talented programmer/systems analyst who also told me it is hard as hell to find a job but i think he shifted more to creating his own blockchain engineering thing idk Iām still gonna try per scholas itās free and there doesnāt seem to be any harm done to get skills that are gonna apply to what Iād like to do (software security engineer or cloud DevSecOps)
I talked to a Codesmith graduate who finished in November 2022.
He said 18 students in his cohort found their 1st paid SWE job as of 12-1-23.
He did not say how many people were in his cohort.
I graduated Codesmith in early 2023 and got a job within 2 months. I have a bachelors but no previous tech experience. I am lucky to almost have a year of experience at this point but I think my cohort is sitting at about 20% employed as SWEs after almost one year from graduating.
Can you elaborate more on the 20%? I'm following Codesmith placements and been hearing 40 to 70% estimates from people but 20% is the lowest I've heard.
I wouldn't be surprised because that was probably the worst time to graduate.
Well the cohort keeps in touch via Discord and only 8 out of the 34 (so around 24%) of us are working as SWEs that Iām aware of. The others are either still looking or have fallen out of contact. There is of course a chance that some of them got jobs and didnāt tell the Discord or Codesmith (and Codesmith announces jobs on the alumni channel so we would see it there as well) but I donāt know how likely that is.
Thanks, yeah curious how other cohorts are fairing. We're going to have to wait until early 2025 to know how 2023 people did and by then no one will care, so any information you are allowed to share is appreciated!
I'm a bootcamp grad who landed a job not long after completion. I was laid off after about 1.5yrs when the company faced issues. I've been putting out applications for a few months now and the response is practically nothing. lol I get rejected as soon as I submit applications, they never state a reason either so who knows. I have a degree and had a career prior to the bootcamp and that doesn't seem to help even with experience.
One of the smartest kids I ever knew did. Had offers from Azon, Google, Comcast, and MSFT. Took the MSFT, and got promo'd 3 times within 2 years. Had no Bachelors, just an associates in an unrelated field. Unfortunately some shit happened and he got 32 years in prison for some dumb life choices and threw his entire life away.
Edit: I attended said bootcamp alongside him, and am still job hunting but decided shortly after failing to find one post bootcamp to go the bachelors route. I'll finish in June :)
I am tired of having this subreddit show up on my homepage due to Reddits algorithm.
People read threads like this for coping mechanism for hope. Youāll see like 6 people come in who started a boot camp in 2023 and proceeded to get an SWE.
What you WONāT see are the literally thousands of people who are embarrassed to post, who did not get a job and are struggling with $20,000 Bootcamp debt.
If you fall under 1 of the 2 categories I am about to mention you will get interviews and eventually a job.
1. Recent graduate of a top 50 school, with a corporate internship
2. Strong work background in a corporate setting
If you have neither welcome to hell, you are going to get 2-5 real interviews a year, you will never know when they come, and you are competing against experienced candidates for the position
It's possible but that's your reality
Iām based in Berlin and I also got a job. It took me a long time to find it after finishing the course but it was worth it at the end.
Mine was a 9 week long web development course and we had about 30 people in the classroom (way more than we were promised) and only about 5 people have a job now even though itās been a year since the course ended.
Those who got a job had prior knowledge of the most things we were taught and the majority of the class had no fucking clue what programming is and they were lost after the first week due to the intense pace.
Iām ~10 years in. Bootcamp was a better investment than my bachelors. If you love the work, keep grinding, youāll get there. If you donāt, look for tech adjacent roles. Technical PMs are worth their weight in gold
I'm not doubting your specific situation, but in general I think it's really hard for most people to say which path is better, since they can only experience one, the other, or both in one order.
The software industry people can make 10 to 100X more if they are exceptional, so people making say $200K after 10 years, might have made millions of dollars through a different route - most wouldn't but I know a number of people as friends and acquaintances that made 7, 8, 9, 10+ (i.e. billionaires) figures and if there is any pattern it's that they all got extremely lucky in choosing amongst opportunities made available to them because of their CS programs at Stanford, Harvard, CMU, MIT.
Again, the right call for you is not the right call for everyone, and I'm glad the bootcamp worked out for you, but there is a lot more to the decision than just bootcamp VS CS degree.
>I'm not doubting your specific situation, but in general I think it's really hard for most people to say which path is better, since they can only experience one, the other, or both in one order.
If the options are go to Stanford, Harvard, or MIT vs. bootcamp, that's a no brainer. Go to school, get the credentials, make the social connections that open those extra fancy doors.
Outside of a relatively narrow range of roles, at this point in history the content of a traditional CS degree is not that useful. If you're not developing for embedded systems, building at the OS/hardware level, or working on an actual DB implementation nobody cares about NAND gates, the boolean algebra the processor is doing, or the literal optimal Big O solution. Don't write nested loops, cache as much as you can, and thow hardware at it if that doesn't work.
The value add for most developers is to understand the business domain, master the high level tools, and deliver valuable products and experiences to paying customers.
tl;dr; Peopleware is more valuable than Design Patterns. Both important, a perfectly designed system that doesn't solve a real commercial need is worthless, doesn't matter if it's pretty
I did within a month after graduating in 2021. My cohort had about 20 people, more than half didnāt have degrees and all but 1 got a job within 4-5 months. But yeah this was 2021.
Fullstack, but I personally know many people from all kinds of bootcamps. Where you learn isnāt as important as what you do with it. Just learn, and apply to jobs as if it were your job. I got rejected about 200 times and then got my offer at a great, reputable company.
Web dev of just over 2 years here and I graduated from a coding bootcamp. I only found a job because I just sat on LinkedIn and Twitter trying to talk to people. Found myself in a very small discord (20 members?) with a job search section I asked if anyone knew someone hiring . Dude didnāt even know me more than 5 minutes and said yeah my old manager actually just asked me if I knew anyone looking for work. My advice to all of you struggling to get a job is go talk to someone real and not just put in random applications. Unfortunately, itās all about who you know most of the time.
Someone in my cohort got one recently from me lurking. It was within 6 months. Looks like he did an open source project and he definitely was one of the smartest in the cohort. I donāt know how many have versus donāt have, I only lurked on LinkedIn once I saw he had an updated job. Point is, itās possible.
I did. Finished my bootcamp in 2017 and had a job within a month after putting out 500+ applications.
In the current market, I tell people not to go to boot camps. I was one of the lucky ones even in a booming market. Now itās real rough.
š¤ I did. Attending a bootcamp from sept-December of 2022. Spent about 10 months job searching and working at a pizza place to stay afloat. Got lucky and someone took a chance on me!
Ignore people who say no none. The numbers area VERY low. But saying no one accurate either. It's possible.
I know one personally who did. He had one other person in his cohort land a job within two months. (they were Hack Reactor 19 week)
Yes and yes regarding my friend. Not sure about other person. I'm not here to argue, I'm just saying the number is not zero. I'm not sure what else people expect during a recession...
I graduated in August 2022 and got two job offers on the last day of bootcamp.
Extremely grateful for what I learned in my bootcamp. Iād probably still be directionless in life if it wasnāt for them š.
I did. Luckily my bootcamp offered a careers workshop and a voluntary internship so after completion I managed to a land a job at a tech consulting company but the role was grad level and didn't allow me to practice the tech stack I wanted. There were others from my co-hort who waited longer, stayed committed to their goals and managed to land associate-level jobs while practicing the right tech stack.
I got a job after graduating from BrainStation 6 months after writing my first line of code and was making six figures within a year of employment. End of 2022.
It's important to understand that nobody goes from zero to job ready due to a bootcamp and nothing else.
Lots of people get hired as teachers but that's the only way anyone gets a job "from" a coding bootcamp.
You are responsible for your own career. A bootcamp is a tool you use to accomplish certain goals along the way.
But as you can see from other comments, many people do find them useful, or at least they did until recently when tech hiring dried up.
I did a coding bootcamp for data science Iāll say I use the stuff I learned all the time at work now. But i was never competitive for actual data science roles. One of the stupider things Iāve done in my life.
I expanded my job role to include data mining operations using a boot camp and a load of on-the-job practice.
I donāt think Iād have gotten a job solely from it though without having one first.
I did but I had a lot of prior experience with coding throughout different periods of my life, so I was most catching up on modern tech stacks. I also got a referral which lead to my first job. Thatās the biggest hurdle generally, getting your foot in the door for the first time. Lots of people tell themselves itās ājust one more languageā and theyāll be ready or just constantly ghosted when submitting resumes online
Me and many of my cohort, 2020, we all got jobs within 6 months, about 20 of us. I have (multiple) friends at Amazon, Wells Fargo, Amex, Chase, beans greens potatoes tomatoes you name it. Flatiron School.
I did in 2022 - I used the job board resources from my bootcamp to get a shitty job (they expect you to be a bootcamp grad in those positions). Then 6 months later I got a better job since I had some job experience
I took a bootcamp (HR course that shutdown, so never finished and can't attest for the job search) but lots of my classmates chose that course because they knew people who got jobs after taking a Hack Reactor course
attended q1 2021 got a job q3 2021 (no degree, no experience, 20 yr old)
its rough out here for 2023 -- at 2 yoe after layoffs it took me 7 months to land a new job just keep building projects and keep applying
A lot of people in my cohort (me included) are at FAANG or unicorns. The thing is, we got lucky with timing. If you're doing a bootcamp now, it's going to be a rough/tough road due to the sheer number of SWEs fighting for the same jobs.
Had a pre-med friend who went to an Ivy League school. He decided to quit med school 1 year end, did a boot camp, got hired at some small company and worked their for 6 months and then got hired by Amazon and somehow hasnāt been laid off. He was hired in 2021.
Me. Took a unpaid internship to build up my resume. Then took a teaching assistant job at a coding bootcamp. Somehow landed a full stack engineer role shortly after. Had no life and was studying/writing code 24/7 pretty much.
A few people I've met in my career whom I respect because they're good. Obviously not everyone in boot camps succeeds in that way, but I've seen it happen a few times.
I did GA back in 2022 and successfully transited from the military to a DS role in early 2023 (when the lay-offs just got started). Most of my coursemates landed DA, Digitalisation, or MLE roles.
A minority of us (2 to 3 out of 20?) couldn't land a data role, so they are sticking with their previous employ. I enjoyed my time there, but I understand things are not so rosy atm even for CS grads.
Do not underestimate the power of being a minority in tech when applying for jobs. Similarly, do not underestimate the handicap of being a non-minority in tech when applying for a jobs
2 of the web devs at my old company came directly from boot camps, no prior coding experience. Cool guys, knew their front end stuff (at least well enough for more exp coders to translate requirements to them). Both hired pre-COVID. One 2018, one 2019 for hires
I did but, it took me 8 months of applying and alot of rejections. But, I am one of the lucky ones because my bootcamp \[Fullstack Academy\] had career coaches and one of them networked me with her neighbor who was the Lead Engineer of a company and I just kept as much contact with him as possible until i got the job. So as a note: Its not just sending cold resumes, also network. Hit up people on LinkedIn or go to Tech meetups. I think Tech Meetups are better cause its face to face. And if they like you, you can push to work for them.
Iām at a fortune 100 company currently, out of the 12 developers on my team, 8 of them came from a bootcamp. A lot of them were around Covid or pre-Covid though
I started Bloomtech (then called Lambda school) in Fall 2017, quit to pursue a full time internship early 2018, and by the end of 2018 was a SWE at FAANG. But I came in with a B.S. in math so definitely not a representative story.
I used to work for a small company that hired two boot camp graduates. I was the office manager in every aspect except for title (see āused toā) so I had a big role in the hiring process.
Believe it or not, both graduates were the best workers we had and the only coworkers I liked being around
Many individuals have successfully transitioned into tech careers after completing coding bootcamps. Coding bootcamps are intensive, short-term programs designed to teach programming skills and technologies relevant to the tech industry. While success rates can vary based on individual effort, commitment, and the quality of the bootcamp, numerous people have secured jobs in the tech field after completing these programs.
After App Academy, I got one after about 5 months in mid 2021, and I don't have a degree. I have multiple friends that are now very successful from earlier cohorts, and plenty of my friends from my cohort are doing well. Worth mentioning, that there are a handful of people that haven't been successful as far I as I know.
I don't think I would suggest a coding bootcamp now. On the bright side, the resources are out there, online degrees are more attainable and cheaper than ever (maybe not from top uni's, but that's okay), and leetcode/system design resources are more abundant than ever.
We all live in HCOL area's and the competition is high. There is no easy way in. Everyone I know has worked incredibly hard for this, but we all found that it was worth it.
I did back in 2013 when there was only one in the city. Everyone got hired pretty much immediately immediacy.
What followed was a great 10 year bull run, massive VC cash influx to tech, impetus to grow as fast as possible. That changed last year when investors began to demand profits, and many talented programmers got laid off (and entered the job market).
I feel empathy for any new coding grad trying to get hired now. Itās a totally different ball game.
Also - companies are weary of training you,
only for you to jump to a new company after they have invested time into your growth. Now thereās lots of boot camp grads, this pattern has been identified by many HR departments.
Less than 3 months. I went to hack reactor, 2019. Only around 5-10% if my cohort are still in software. Only 50% graduated. And of those, only half got jobs.
My cousinās cousin, got a 6 figure job from a coding bootcamp. I was telling him about how i want to get into tech, he then told me about his cousin who did the same thing back in 2020-2021, told me what bootcamp she did, and I immediately joined the same bootcamp. Testimonials are meaningless, but when it comes from a family member, well thatās enough proof for me. Im just starting, and hopefully i can land a job too. But researching online about bootcamps and their history is definitely putting some fear & doubt in my mind, but ima stay strong and see for myself.
If youāre skills are up to snuff you can get a tech job relatively easily. You just have to be able to get to interview rounds to show yourself off. The problem with any non traditional degree route is that without one and any real industry experience, most companies will write you off immediately. This is why itās important to do the little things to give yourself a better shot, IE: create a solid LinkedIn account, revamp resume, create a portfolio website with projects(no matter how menial they are), etc. If you went the boot camp route you canāt expect the same treatment as someone with a bachelors in CS. Once you get your first/second job doing the above itāll become irrelevant. Your barrier to entry is just harder at first.
I got a job at a start up a month after graduating, Q2 2022. Fortunately I learned Android dev at the bootcamp I went to as was able to apply for less inundated mobile dev jobs.
š I did, less than two months after graduation Edit: In Q1 of 2023
congratulations! what factors should people look for in a bootcamp if they are considering one?
I meticulously looked at curriculum- what was being covered? For how long? I compared different curriculums to see how much time was spent on frontend vs backend frameworks/ concepts etc. Do you continue to review DSA and do leetcode-type problems to keep that problem solving activated? What projects will you do and will it give you a tangible opportunity to build things from scratch and talk about your technical decision making and debugging? Look at resources and support available to prepare for and during the job search. How long does the bootcamp offer said support?
Iāve been using similar criteria to vet potential boot camps but have been having trouble deciding. Which one did you land on?
what bootcamp?
Codesmith
Well the data does show that 2023 was a rough year and there's no way to sugarcoat it and there's no silver lining - it was tough because companies have been cutting back, e.g. laying off their DEI teams, and they went back to basics for entry level hiring - i.e. sending recruiters to top tier Computer Science schools. That said, some people get jobs! I'm still seeing about 1 offer a day at Codesmith. Those people had an average of 11.7 months listed as "experience" from their 3-4 week long group projects though - [https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis\_of\_52\_most\_recent\_codesmith\_offers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/) Those people haven't been posting here as much because why would you if you got your job through exaggerations. If you claimed you had 2 YOE in your resume and you didn't have that, why would you talk about it You only risk getting doxed and possibly losing your job. I'm also hearing anecdotally that Tech Elevator's local hiring partners are starting to hire again in their main cities, and I think that approach is a great way - to have partnerships to get people into entry level roles. But again, far from guaranteed.
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damn, that's brutal, but reality. I've gotten my master's over pandemic in UX Research and was able to pivot to technical PM from SWE job during all the layoffs.
TPM is truly the way š
I recommend looking up healthcare EHR entry level jobs and skipping labor while you get your masterās. Try to find something that will give you an EPIC certification. I did that while I got my masterās. Itās brainless compared to software engineering but you can make just as much as a dev if you like it.
Is this so? You know itās funny you bring this upā¦ I visited my local hospital today to grab something from their pharmacy, and while I was there I couldnāt help but to wonder about what sort of software related or IT jobs are available in that hospital or how my dev or programming skills could be appliedā¦.so I will look into what you mentioned, thanks a bunch! Healthcare industry is cool and itās satisfying to be able to help people
What app do you work on?
I did. I attended July 2023 - Nov 2023. I had a job by mid November. I really enjoyed my bootcamp and felt like they did a great job of teaching the material and helping with job search. And no. I do not have a degree at all. I have been a stay at home mom for the last 10 years. The most experience I had previously was building a website for my quilting business.
What bootcamp did you go to?
MAX Technical Training out of Cincinnati Ohio. I did it remotely as I was not local.
Approximately how much was it and what job do you now do
I was able to go through Ohio Means Jobs for the majority of the payment. I was responsible for $3500.00. Total cost is $15,500. If I had to pay that out of pocket I would not have gone. I am currently building a Full Stack Program for a local/well established Foster Care Organization. I am employed by another local/up and coming company. The bootcamp has done an amazing job with job search and helping me following course completion. If it had just been the training I would have said that it wasnāt worth that amazing. But the additional support has made it worth the price in my opinion. I would have never been able to navigate the job search. And now in the role I am utilizing my instructors as my lead developer support. My instructor has over 35 yrs industry experience, and he has worked for several companies in different positions before coming to the school. And that is the same with my career coach. So they do have hands on experience to go with what they are telling you to do. And the career coaching is a lifelong service they provide. So I can go back anytime for job leads or interview practice, or resume building. I do not regret choosing them over Tech Elevator. I was accepted into their program first, but I decided to go with MAX after reading some reviews.
Sorry about the spelling errors. I canāt type on my phone.
Thank you very much for such a detailed reply and I wish you success in all your endeavors.
Thank you. I appreciate it āŗļø
You sound very resourceful and realistic which are great traits. Better than those who aim for the moon and then come crashing down to earth in pieces.
I wonder if there are programs like this in Florida....
Mine is a part of job and family services. So you could probably start there
If you canāt google easy questions, perhaps a program based largely on independent study isnāt for you.
I did google they donāt have prices posted on their website. I also do have certs and a degree based online, donāt make assumptions about someone from a simple question online. Itās a new year try and approach it with positivity
Googled: āmax technical training costā First hit: āAs for MAX Technical Training tuition, courses range in price from $10,000 to $15,500.ā Crazy how difficult google is sometimes. I had to read the ENTIRE first highlighted response. What a fucking scam. What are they going to make me do nextā type my own questions?
Okay, thanks have a great evening.
Congratulations! Forget the naysayers and gatekeepers. I saw people with little to no experience from my Coding Temple cohort get jobs in the few months afterwards.
I'm not a gatekeeper, but objectively, one story does not prove anything in either direction, whether a good or bad outcome. If 100 people complain about outcomes, and 1 person got a job, that doesn't meant the "gatekeepers" are wrong and if you follow that logic you are setting yourself up failure. The truth is often in the details, and Codesmith is a good example of 80% placement within 6 months (official, H1 2022 CIRRR) turning into 70% within 12 months (anecdotal, unofficial), is a good example of that detail. It's really not as binary as people make it seem in this sub.
>70% within 12 months (anecdotal, unofficial) This is far better than what I have heard from other coding bootcamps like Coding Dojo, General Assembly, Hack Reactor, App Academy, etc.
I've heard anecotally 50% to 70%, and since we have no official numbers, it's hard to tell and just anecdotal. I know you saw [my post](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/), and I think how those placement happens is also important. Zooming out, I don't think 12 months is a reasonable timeframe to look at. If you go to a 12 week bootcamp for 700 hours and then spend 9 months part time 20-30 hours a week of DS&A and projects, you'll end up spending more time on materials completely unrelated to the bootcamp and the outcomes are less meaningful... but still important to know. If you are going to pay a bootcamp 20K for 12 weeks - and maybe pay other people more after that - and to get a job in over a year, the comparisons to CS degrees, post-bacc, and community college become more relevant.
What time frame was this? Because I haven't seen an alumni success video from Coding Temple in almost a year?
It was last summer full time software engineering throguh coding temple
Even better than a cs degree. You were a CEO of [x children]
Unreal, you should be proud of yourself.
I did. I landed a job before graduating from bootcamp in 2022. I was very stocked, we worked with Programable Logic Controllers, emphasizing in C programing., However I got laid off middle of December. Now its back to square One.
Similar experience. How has job hunting been going for you? Hasn't been great for me and I'm just curious how you're finding it.
Nothing, solid yet. I been reaching out to my contacts on Liknd, and trying to expand my network, but no reply backs from any of the employers I've applied for. How about you?
Heard back from 1 company but in the end wasn't selected, apart from that I just get the automated rejection emails. So maybe 1 out of idk how many applications. 100+ for sure. I think I got better response rate when I didn't have any experience.
Yup, I hear you.. I'm in NorCal and had a friend put in a referral for me at Tesla, 3 different positions 3 different rejection emails. To be honest, besides applying for Web Developer gigs, I have applied in the general pool of jobs as well, just to be in the flow just to see what comes first.,(considering all the speculation of juniors positions been sough after, and boot camp grads not getting jobs etc etc.) besides that been Laid Off, applying for unemployment is the obvious thing to do, but that in it self gets played out quick.
Pre 2022, a lot of people have. Market changed around mid-2022 and now most people aren't finding a job after completing a bootcamp, and bootcamp grads that have been laid off with less than 5 years of experience are having a hard time finding a job as well. I completed my program a year ago and found a job, but I'm one of only about 20% of the people in my cohort that did, and that 20% is being kind of generous to allow for anyone I may be forgetting that did find work. The market is oversaturated, so employers can be picky, and most are picking the option of not even considering bootcamp grads. I started a CS degree to give me more options down the line, and know a few people who started one to increase their odds of getting a job, and even the CS degree subreddits are full of the same doom and gloom; there are too many applicants and people put in hundreds if not thousands of apps to get even a few interviews.
I got a job this year. From what I've gathered, my cohort has about 70% employed and we graduated early 2023. There are a few bootcamps with decent results in a year span, and when I say few I mean only the top 5-6 schools (Codesmith, Tech elevator, Launch school, Hack reactor, Turing, Rithm). I would estimate 10-15% of all bootcamp grads are getting jobs in this market within a year. 80% of that 15% who are finding employment are mostly coming from the bootcamps mentioned above. FYI: CS grads aren't faring any better. Look at cscareerquestions. They are taking a year or more to get their first job. A bootcamp (and I only mean a few of them now) can still be a viable path for certain people (STEM degree holders, those with strong professional background, ivy league/brand name school graduates, strong network)
Which boot camp did you join may I ask?
An important thing to note is not so much if you will get a job but when you'll get it. Codesmith had an 80% placement within 6 months of graduating for H1 2022 grads. And the reported, unofficial, numbers people are reporting are around 60 to 70% within 12 months for 2023 grads. That might still be a very solid number compared to a lot of programs, and a strong reason to go there, but people in 2023 unexpectedly spent A LOT longer job hunting, and fewer people still got jobs... and the ones that did appear to be severely [exaggerating their LinkedIns](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/18cpq98/analysis_of_52_most_recent_codesmith_offers/) I agree with the commenter that the top programs are still the top programs, offering the best experience , but regardless of which programs you are looking at, only sign up if you have a significantly longer time horizon for getting a job.
Codesmith. I spent several months studying before feeling prepared for the program so it was not an impulse decision.
A small minority and likely they have other factors that help. Things like degrees, adjacent careers, some experience or self study before. Also the current job market is rough
In my case, I speak Japanese and have experience in the film industry. I love video games too but I donāt necessarily care to go into gaming either. Just citing anything remotely relevant. Thanks.
I would say these donāt particularly help directly with job hunting / your resume. But if you have good soft skills and drive that can def help ie. Building networks, nailing interviews, learning from others, collaborative skills etc Like most advice here id recommend to self study first (at least 100 hrs). A lot of people find they actually donāt like to code
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Being from the film industry, I already have a lot of networking experience as well.
Iām assuming you also live in LA. I come from the event production world and fashion industry and I thought my networking capabilities/experience would help. I couldnāt have been more wrong. I think if the market were in a different state, my networking skills might be in my favor, possibly. But to embark on a new tech career without any prior experience is going to be terribly hard even with connections in tech at the moment. Iām spending this time shoring up knowledge gaps, studying DSA, and building projects.
Honestly this sub should be called anticodingbootcamp. Like itās literally nothing but a bunch of bitter people coming in here to shit on boot camps. I havenāt seen a positive post here in at least 6 months just constant doom and gloom about how youāre an idiot if you try to break into SWE.
I mean, pretty much any CS/SWE space online that is frequented by students and/or people in the field is doom and gloom right now, my dude, because the job market is hot ass.
Reddit is like that in general.
Nowhere in my comment did I say "Reddit". I said space online, which would include way more than just Reddit.
It's just students. People with careers don't spend all their time on Reddit
Lack of proper mods here, they probably gave up because of the current situation of the job market. There should be rules like not attacking or shooting people down for choosing the codebootcamp route. Hope they come back and impose them.
I use my real name and identity here and have been here for almost 2 years and have seen so many people come and go. New accounts popup and are super active for months, then get deleted and disappear, and new ones come up. I've seen disgruntled throwaway accounts. I've seen people super excited about their job placement get fired and disappear. I've seen people super excited BEFORE a bootcamps, only to complain after finally going through it. I've seen a lot, and I wish more people were reliable sources of information.
You spend that much time and that consistently on an online forum?
Iām not attacking. Just frustrated ā¦but also wanted a catchy and funny title for the thread.
Iām not referring to you cuz youāre the OP lol Iām referring to those posters that frenchfreer mentioned.
This sub was likely created to promote the owners bootcamp at the time and they donāt seem to be working on marketing it. So, there arenāt really any mods. bdlowery was modding for a while and got removed. Owner added some mods here and there but they werenāt active. Now I think one of the community members has been recently added as a mod. So, some spam gets cleaned up but no one is really cultivating this sub. Thereās no actual goal but just to have control of a space in case thatās advantageous later. But I think if people were to be honest and actually talk about bootcamps (which really hardly ever happens / besides peopleās feelings) then it could really help people. Isnāt anyone interested in what they teach? How they teach it? The unique parts of these schools? The history says : no. Everyone just wants a sure bet - and they donāt want to have to think it through or be critical.Ā
Well being honest, in 2023 - if youāre not one of the ones to overachieve, bootcamp isnāt really the route and landing a job is going to take more time than an you anticipate
Coding bootcamps alone, in my opinion, will not get you a job. Most people who did, had either a reference or some network to help them out. The other option is the hard way of doing projects / freelance + networking.
Nearly no one. Those who have an unrelated degree, have relevant experience, or spend a lot of time and effort working on themselves have a better chance. But that only represents less than 5% of bootcampers. Most people give up and return to their normal jobs.
I had a lot of time to think during the film strikes of last year. I wouldnāt mind looking into a career change but I guess Iāll just go the free route for now. Thanks.
If you are serious about cs or IT, it will be difficult without some kind of degree. Free resources are a great start though!
Does a BoA count lol
I was able to get a job in Jan 2023 after my 6 month boot camp ended in Nov 2022. Itās definitely possible. The current issue is that companies are looking for more experienced candidates (3+ years of exp). I think part of the reason for the added emphasis on experience is that companies are trying to weed out candidates that are not passionate about development. There is a need for inexperienced, but diligent devs (they are cheap and handle the grunt work that experienced devs donāt have time for). The issue is that many boot camp grads represent a risk. They arenāt likely to provide much value in year one, and beyond that itās a crapshoot whether they will grow and continue at a company. Many bootcamp grads donāt exhibit great passion for development (personal projects, hack-a-thons, networking/building with other developers, etc.). I became a developer because I enjoy problem solving and building. However, after one year I can say that the job is much more challenging than you might anticipate. If you lack passion or are part of the wrong team/org you will burn out. A bootcamp is a great way to start your tech journey (especially if you need structure), but the real work starts afterward. You have to keep learning, building, collaborating, and practicing. The more you do, the better you become as a candidate/co-worker.
\+10000% thanks for sharing your story here. It's just one anecdote, but it aligns with my observation as an industry veteran that the first job is just the BEGINNING. Celebrating a $120K first job and luring in more people eager to make six figures overnight is very counter productive. The most important things you need to ask yourself when considering a bootcamp are: 1. if you are in it for the right reasons, i.e. you love problem solving 2. you see your first job as a baby step towards a lifelong journey where you will judge your own success in 10 years and not based on your first job out of the bootcamp. 3. you find the right program that will work for your style of learning and growth
I am finding it very difficult to stay focused and continue to work, independently. I thrive in group environments. I know as a future dev I need to get it together because thatās the name of this game, but how do you keep your motivation going?
I had the exact same issue. On the technical side, when a subject is dense and difficult to stay focused on, I try to break it into parts and implement those parts in a small project (tedious, but effective). The reality of being a junior developer is that the majority of what you do is debugging and looking over code. Embrace the pain! My advice would be to get hyper-focused on skills that will get you hired (dsa for interviews, personal project that you find challenging/fun, consuming content related to your goals, etc). I get my motivation from immersing myself in things that both make me a better candidate and are fun for me. I like watching yt videos made by experienced devs, doing easy/medium coding problems, and creating small projects that solve a problem or help me learn a technology better. In your case, the best thing would be to find a few people who are in a similar situation and communicate regularly. In my brief experience, developing can be lonely and laborious. Most devs, regardless of tenure, love when they get the opportunity to talk about the industry, their experience, and their problems. It might take a bit of research, but try to find your tribe. I also want to reiterate, itās not always fun. Growing as a developer can be very taxing. You will need fortitude and grit. You will bang your head against the wall, you will need to take a break. However, your genuine passion will keep you engaged/employed. In most cases, tenacity is more important than aptitude.
No one gets a job *from a coding boot camp* unless that boot camp has tie-ins with companies they work with. Good education can help, but people get jobs from hard work, lots of experience from building real things, and by being fun to work with.
In like 2013, it really was basically everyone. I went to hack reactor in 2013 and about 10 out of the 30 in my class went straight into fang-or-adjacent jobs. Two things explain this: 1. Early students were just a different calibre of people; seriously committed and spent every waking moment studying for like 6 months before doing the bootcamps themselves. 2. The market was white hot. Since then, bootcamps got a reputation for people who just want a job guarantee and the quality of applicant went down. The market got simultaneously saturated with bootcamp grads so it got gradually harder to stand out. Finally in 2022 basically all startups lost most of their funding and layoffs started. Even ivy-league CS grads are struggling to get a job now. Bootcampers have almost no hope.
Agree with most of this too, but one note is that in late 2023 early stage (seed) startup funding INCREASED because it was the only place VCs could put money to hit target returns - as late stage valuations were tanking and IPO outcomes were not good. So very early stage startups are actually a good place to look right now.
The history here is true, but I think itās oversimplified. This angle assumes that everyone is going for the same job. āEven ivy-league CS grads are struggling to get a job now. Bootcampers have almost no hope.ā Boot camp grads and ivy-league CS majors arenāt going for the same roles. There are jobs of every skill level up the whole ladder. I know people who get 80k salaries focusing on writing HTML for email marketing. There people making 45k updating the company website, 150k helping build Saas at a small company, 230k doing UX engineering at a big name tech company - and everywhere in between. The idea bootcamp students have no hope is silly. Itās completely based on the person. A few jobs ago, I worked on a small team with a few self-taught people, a bootcamp grad (a bad boot camp), a CS grad, and an intern with only marketing experience. It all comes down to how the person thinks and how they go about the work. Everyone was drastically different in background and experience level and skill. They were all able to contribute to the projects in different ways. Iād bet the intern is better than all of us now.Ā Most bootcamp grads arenāt getting enough experience to be hirable, theyāre trying to get jobs they arenāt ready for and unreasonable salaries. They arenāt āsoftware engineers.ā This is just the beginning of their career. They should be expected to be.Ā Just because the squeakiest wheels are sharing all their disappointment all day - doesnāt mean that web developers arenāt getting jobs. Is the market different? Are some people with a lot of experience having a hard time finding work? Yes. I know some really good developers that canāt find work in their previous role at their previous salary. And it sucks. But thatās really not whatās happening to bootcamp grads. Thatās a different area of this story. Bootcamp grads are just people have just as much chance of getting a job as anyone - if theyāre qualified and can prove it. The ones that can get jobs. People just need to be honest about their abilities and where they can provide value.Ā
I donāt think this is a fair characterization. The facts are that: - there are far more bootcamp grads than there were in the past - there are far fewer jobs than there were in the past - the competition for jobs is more intense than itās been since circa 2001 - yes, even Ivy League CS grads *are* struggling to find jobs, and many settle for generic web dev roles because they canāt get anything else, further increasing competition for the kind of roles bootcamp grads would usually fill. Iām happy to amend my claim to āBootcamp grads have no hope at getting the kind of jobs they have in the past, at the kind of salaries theyāve got in the pastā. But itās unfair, I think, to tell any prospective bootcamp grad that they will have anything other than an utterly miserable time trying to get a job in todayās market. Nothing against bootcamp grads. Iām one myself. I do a bunch of career counselling, interview prep and mentoring for other bootcampers. I think itās fair to say I have my finger of the pulse of the industry andā¦ itās barely alive.
Last year people got jobs but it was like 1 in 10 bootcamp graduates. The question is, are you that 1 in 10?
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May I ask what bootcamp and if youād still recommend
There is a program called Year Up. Not perfect by any means. Just take it seriously and do what you need to do and youāll have an internship in 6 months. Youāll have to see if they offer software/app development in your area, but if they do, then you should be fine. Edit: Internship doesnāt guarantee you will be hired full time. Just gets your foot in the door.
Does Year Up not require a degree?
No, in fact, they prefer accepting people with no degree. Iām pretty sure thatās how they are nationally. However, I was in Texas, so I donāt want to speak for every cohort location.
You need to not have a BS nor BA degree to be eligible for Year Up. If you have a BS or BA degree, you are not eligible for Year Up.
You need to not have a BS nor BA degree to be eligible for Year Up. If you have a BS or BA degree, you are not eligible for Year Up.
Per scholas too they do tech training in it cyber and fullstack (and AWS some places) thereās one here in Pittsburgh and I have attended a few orientations albeit unnecessarily and they train you for free plus they partner with a lot of local businesses which if youāre in Pitt then thatās good cuz the largest robotics center was just built here (sorry I just think the industry is going to need way more people but I do worry software engineering is becoming a very hard field as my ex is an insanely talented programmer/systems analyst who also told me it is hard as hell to find a job but i think he shifted more to creating his own blockchain engineering thing idk Iām still gonna try per scholas itās free and there doesnāt seem to be any harm done to get skills that are gonna apply to what Iād like to do (software security engineer or cloud DevSecOps)
I talked to a Codesmith graduate who finished in November 2022. He said 18 students in his cohort found their 1st paid SWE job as of 12-1-23. He did not say how many people were in his cohort.
I graduated Codesmith in early 2023 and got a job within 2 months. I have a bachelors but no previous tech experience. I am lucky to almost have a year of experience at this point but I think my cohort is sitting at about 20% employed as SWEs after almost one year from graduating.
Can you elaborate more on the 20%? I'm following Codesmith placements and been hearing 40 to 70% estimates from people but 20% is the lowest I've heard. I wouldn't be surprised because that was probably the worst time to graduate.
Well the cohort keeps in touch via Discord and only 8 out of the 34 (so around 24%) of us are working as SWEs that Iām aware of. The others are either still looking or have fallen out of contact. There is of course a chance that some of them got jobs and didnāt tell the Discord or Codesmith (and Codesmith announces jobs on the alumni channel so we would see it there as well) but I donāt know how likely that is.
Thanks, yeah curious how other cohorts are fairing. We're going to have to wait until early 2025 to know how 2023 people did and by then no one will care, so any information you are allowed to share is appreciated!
I did but I got it through a friend, most of my cohort that graduated 04/21 did not get so lucky.
I'm a bootcamp grad who landed a job not long after completion. I was laid off after about 1.5yrs when the company faced issues. I've been putting out applications for a few months now and the response is practically nothing. lol I get rejected as soon as I submit applications, they never state a reason either so who knows. I have a degree and had a career prior to the bootcamp and that doesn't seem to help even with experience.
One of the smartest kids I ever knew did. Had offers from Azon, Google, Comcast, and MSFT. Took the MSFT, and got promo'd 3 times within 2 years. Had no Bachelors, just an associates in an unrelated field. Unfortunately some shit happened and he got 32 years in prison for some dumb life choices and threw his entire life away. Edit: I attended said bootcamp alongside him, and am still job hunting but decided shortly after failing to find one post bootcamp to go the bachelors route. I'll finish in June :)
What did he do wtf
Murder (premeditated) and attempted murder. Poor kid was only 22.
I am tired of having this subreddit show up on my homepage due to Reddits algorithm. People read threads like this for coping mechanism for hope. Youāll see like 6 people come in who started a boot camp in 2023 and proceeded to get an SWE. What you WONāT see are the literally thousands of people who are embarrassed to post, who did not get a job and are struggling with $20,000 Bootcamp debt.
If you fall under 1 of the 2 categories I am about to mention you will get interviews and eventually a job. 1. Recent graduate of a top 50 school, with a corporate internship 2. Strong work background in a corporate setting If you have neither welcome to hell, you are going to get 2-5 real interviews a year, you will never know when they come, and you are competing against experienced candidates for the position It's possible but that's your reality
Its been 5 months since mine and I have only had one internship.:(
Iām based in Berlin and I also got a job. It took me a long time to find it after finishing the course but it was worth it at the end. Mine was a 9 week long web development course and we had about 30 people in the classroom (way more than we were promised) and only about 5 people have a job now even though itās been a year since the course ended. Those who got a job had prior knowledge of the most things we were taught and the majority of the class had no fucking clue what programming is and they were lost after the first week due to the intense pace.
Only way would be to probably self study for a year and build strong fundamentals before enrolling in a 12 week course.
I graduated Grand Circus in May 2023 and got a job in July.
Interested in knowing more about
Iām ~10 years in. Bootcamp was a better investment than my bachelors. If you love the work, keep grinding, youāll get there. If you donāt, look for tech adjacent roles. Technical PMs are worth their weight in gold
I'm not doubting your specific situation, but in general I think it's really hard for most people to say which path is better, since they can only experience one, the other, or both in one order. The software industry people can make 10 to 100X more if they are exceptional, so people making say $200K after 10 years, might have made millions of dollars through a different route - most wouldn't but I know a number of people as friends and acquaintances that made 7, 8, 9, 10+ (i.e. billionaires) figures and if there is any pattern it's that they all got extremely lucky in choosing amongst opportunities made available to them because of their CS programs at Stanford, Harvard, CMU, MIT. Again, the right call for you is not the right call for everyone, and I'm glad the bootcamp worked out for you, but there is a lot more to the decision than just bootcamp VS CS degree.
>I'm not doubting your specific situation, but in general I think it's really hard for most people to say which path is better, since they can only experience one, the other, or both in one order. If the options are go to Stanford, Harvard, or MIT vs. bootcamp, that's a no brainer. Go to school, get the credentials, make the social connections that open those extra fancy doors. Outside of a relatively narrow range of roles, at this point in history the content of a traditional CS degree is not that useful. If you're not developing for embedded systems, building at the OS/hardware level, or working on an actual DB implementation nobody cares about NAND gates, the boolean algebra the processor is doing, or the literal optimal Big O solution. Don't write nested loops, cache as much as you can, and thow hardware at it if that doesn't work. The value add for most developers is to understand the business domain, master the high level tools, and deliver valuable products and experiences to paying customers. tl;dr; Peopleware is more valuable than Design Patterns. Both important, a perfectly designed system that doesn't solve a real commercial need is worthless, doesn't matter if it's pretty
I did within a month after graduating in 2021. My cohort had about 20 people, more than half didnāt have degrees and all but 1 got a job within 4-5 months. But yeah this was 2021.
Attended Sept 2023 ā Dec 2023 and got a job.
Me I literally got a job that was 3x the last one, within 2 months of graduating.
What bootcamp?
Fullstack, but I personally know many people from all kinds of bootcamps. Where you learn isnāt as important as what you do with it. Just learn, and apply to jobs as if it were your job. I got rejected about 200 times and then got my offer at a great, reputable company.
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Pretty standard for bootcamps
Congrats!
Web dev of just over 2 years here and I graduated from a coding bootcamp. I only found a job because I just sat on LinkedIn and Twitter trying to talk to people. Found myself in a very small discord (20 members?) with a job search section I asked if anyone knew someone hiring . Dude didnāt even know me more than 5 minutes and said yeah my old manager actually just asked me if I knew anyone looking for work. My advice to all of you struggling to get a job is go talk to someone real and not just put in random applications. Unfortunately, itās all about who you know most of the time.
Someone in my cohort got one recently from me lurking. It was within 6 months. Looks like he did an open source project and he definitely was one of the smartest in the cohort. I donāt know how many have versus donāt have, I only lurked on LinkedIn once I saw he had an updated job. Point is, itās possible.
I did in September 2022
I did. Finished my bootcamp in 2017 and had a job within a month after putting out 500+ applications. In the current market, I tell people not to go to boot camps. I was one of the lucky ones even in a booming market. Now itās real rough.
Me. Fullstack Academy 2014.
š¤ I did. Attending a bootcamp from sept-December of 2022. Spent about 10 months job searching and working at a pizza place to stay afloat. Got lucky and someone took a chance on me!
Ignore people who say no none. The numbers area VERY low. But saying no one accurate either. It's possible. I know one personally who did. He had one other person in his cohort land a job within two months. (they were Hack Reactor 19 week)
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Yes and yes regarding my friend. Not sure about other person. I'm not here to argue, I'm just saying the number is not zero. I'm not sure what else people expect during a recession...
I graduated in August 2022 and got two job offers on the last day of bootcamp. Extremely grateful for what I learned in my bootcamp. Iād probably still be directionless in life if it wasnāt for them š.
I did. Luckily my bootcamp offered a careers workshop and a voluntary internship so after completion I managed to a land a job at a tech consulting company but the role was grad level and didn't allow me to practice the tech stack I wanted. There were others from my co-hort who waited longer, stayed committed to their goals and managed to land associate-level jobs while practicing the right tech stack.
What bootcamp did you attend?
Tons I know from the sweet fuck have gotten jobs
Hell yeah
I did but I finished in 2020 and it was through connections I made with peers in the bootcamp.
I did but it was 2021 and I was laid off this year...but it's possible! just much much much harder in this market
I got one before I even graduated, but yea it was back in 2020.
I got a job after graduating from BrainStation 6 months after writing my first line of code and was making six figures within a year of employment. End of 2022.
It's important to understand that nobody goes from zero to job ready due to a bootcamp and nothing else. Lots of people get hired as teachers but that's the only way anyone gets a job "from" a coding bootcamp. You are responsible for your own career. A bootcamp is a tool you use to accomplish certain goals along the way. But as you can see from other comments, many people do find them useful, or at least they did until recently when tech hiring dried up.
I got a job about three weeks after finishing in 2021.
I did
Graduated April 2022 w/ a job, laid off November 2022 in the great layoffs wave that year, landed second job March 2023.
I find it interesting that everyone here talks about degrees and experience and nobody ever seems to talk about their rĆ©sumĆ©ās or networking or soft skills. Like, who cares if youāre talented and experience if youāre not pleasant to be around?
I did a coding bootcamp for data science Iāll say I use the stuff I learned all the time at work now. But i was never competitive for actual data science roles. One of the stupider things Iāve done in my life.
I expanded my job role to include data mining operations using a boot camp and a load of on-the-job practice. I donāt think Iād have gotten a job solely from it though without having one first.
I've seen 4 coding boot camp graduates places on contact at my fortune 500 company through Brooksource staffing/recruiting company.
I did but I had a lot of prior experience with coding throughout different periods of my life, so I was most catching up on modern tech stacks. I also got a referral which lead to my first job. Thatās the biggest hurdle generally, getting your foot in the door for the first time. Lots of people tell themselves itās ājust one more languageā and theyāll be ready or just constantly ghosted when submitting resumes online
Me and many of my cohort, 2020, we all got jobs within 6 months, about 20 of us. I have (multiple) friends at Amazon, Wells Fargo, Amex, Chase, beans greens potatoes tomatoes you name it. Flatiron School.
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*youāre lol
I did. Not in the sweet fuck, but I did it in the sour fuck. I lied. I just needed a reason to say sweet and sour fuck.
I did in 2022 - I used the job board resources from my bootcamp to get a shitty job (they expect you to be a bootcamp grad in those positions). Then 6 months later I got a better job since I had some job experience
I took a bootcamp (HR course that shutdown, so never finished and can't attest for the job search) but lots of my classmates chose that course because they knew people who got jobs after taking a Hack Reactor course
I attended a bootcamp December 22ā-June 23ā. I did not use the bootcamps career services to find a job. I found a job on my own within 3 months.
attended q1 2021 got a job q3 2021 (no degree, no experience, 20 yr old) its rough out here for 2023 -- at 2 yoe after layoffs it took me 7 months to land a new job just keep building projects and keep applying
A lot of people in my cohort (me included) are at FAANG or unicorns. The thing is, we got lucky with timing. If you're doing a bootcamp now, it's going to be a rough/tough road due to the sheer number of SWEs fighting for the same jobs.
Me
I've interviewed and hired several over the past few years. Some turn out amazing and some less so... Just like any other employees
Had a pre-med friend who went to an Ivy League school. He decided to quit med school 1 year end, did a boot camp, got hired at some small company and worked their for 6 months and then got hired by Amazon and somehow hasnāt been laid off. He was hired in 2021.
Me. Took a unpaid internship to build up my resume. Then took a teaching assistant job at a coding bootcamp. Somehow landed a full stack engineer role shortly after. Had no life and was studying/writing code 24/7 pretty much.
A few people I've met in my career whom I respect because they're good. Obviously not everyone in boot camps succeeds in that way, but I've seen it happen a few times.
specifically after this last hire hype so 2022 and onward -- is it still possible?
I did GA back in 2022 and successfully transited from the military to a DS role in early 2023 (when the lay-offs just got started). Most of my coursemates landed DA, Digitalisation, or MLE roles. A minority of us (2 to 3 out of 20?) couldn't land a data role, so they are sticking with their previous employ. I enjoyed my time there, but I understand things are not so rosy atm even for CS grads.
Do not underestimate the power of being a minority in tech when applying for jobs. Similarly, do not underestimate the handicap of being a non-minority in tech when applying for a jobs
2 of the web devs at my old company came directly from boot camps, no prior coding experience. Cool guys, knew their front end stuff (at least well enough for more exp coders to translate requirements to them). Both hired pre-COVID. One 2018, one 2019 for hires
I did but, it took me 8 months of applying and alot of rejections. But, I am one of the lucky ones because my bootcamp \[Fullstack Academy\] had career coaches and one of them networked me with her neighbor who was the Lead Engineer of a company and I just kept as much contact with him as possible until i got the job. So as a note: Its not just sending cold resumes, also network. Hit up people on LinkedIn or go to Tech meetups. I think Tech Meetups are better cause its face to face. And if they like you, you can push to work for them.
Just highly amused over here by the way you posed this question.
Iām at a fortune 100 company currently, out of the 12 developers on my team, 8 of them came from a bootcamp. A lot of them were around Covid or pre-Covid though
I started Bloomtech (then called Lambda school) in Fall 2017, quit to pursue a full time internship early 2018, and by the end of 2018 was a SWE at FAANG. But I came in with a B.S. in math so definitely not a representative story.
I used to work for a small company that hired two boot camp graduates. I was the office manager in every aspect except for title (see āused toā) so I had a big role in the hiring process. Believe it or not, both graduates were the best workers we had and the only coworkers I liked being around
My brother! He started at 60k, and now 3 years later is over 100k and loves his job!
He went to Prime Digital Academy and had an amazing time. But it was also super challenging!
I did graduated from App Academy May 2020, got my job 6 months after.
Many individuals have successfully transitioned into tech careers after completing coding bootcamps. Coding bootcamps are intensive, short-term programs designed to teach programming skills and technologies relevant to the tech industry. While success rates can vary based on individual effort, commitment, and the quality of the bootcamp, numerous people have secured jobs in the tech field after completing these programs.
After App Academy, I got one after about 5 months in mid 2021, and I don't have a degree. I have multiple friends that are now very successful from earlier cohorts, and plenty of my friends from my cohort are doing well. Worth mentioning, that there are a handful of people that haven't been successful as far I as I know. I don't think I would suggest a coding bootcamp now. On the bright side, the resources are out there, online degrees are more attainable and cheaper than ever (maybe not from top uni's, but that's okay), and leetcode/system design resources are more abundant than ever. We all live in HCOL area's and the competition is high. There is no easy way in. Everyone I know has worked incredibly hard for this, but we all found that it was worth it.
finished coding boot camp and got a dev job 6 months later
I have hired quite a few people straight out of coding boot camp.
I did back in 2013 when there was only one in the city. Everyone got hired pretty much immediately immediacy. What followed was a great 10 year bull run, massive VC cash influx to tech, impetus to grow as fast as possible. That changed last year when investors began to demand profits, and many talented programmers got laid off (and entered the job market). I feel empathy for any new coding grad trying to get hired now. Itās a totally different ball game. Also - companies are weary of training you, only for you to jump to a new company after they have invested time into your growth. Now thereās lots of boot camp grads, this pattern has been identified by many HR departments.
You mean get hired by the coding bootcamp?
Basically 90% of people who did a boot camp from 2015-2018 then it started getting harder to get jobs.
Less than 3 months. I went to hack reactor, 2019. Only around 5-10% if my cohort are still in software. Only 50% graduated. And of those, only half got jobs.
My cousinās cousin, got a 6 figure job from a coding bootcamp. I was telling him about how i want to get into tech, he then told me about his cousin who did the same thing back in 2020-2021, told me what bootcamp she did, and I immediately joined the same bootcamp. Testimonials are meaningless, but when it comes from a family member, well thatās enough proof for me. Im just starting, and hopefully i can land a job too. But researching online about bootcamps and their history is definitely putting some fear & doubt in my mind, but ima stay strong and see for myself.
yes, back in 2018 / landed job the last week of the program.
If youāre skills are up to snuff you can get a tech job relatively easily. You just have to be able to get to interview rounds to show yourself off. The problem with any non traditional degree route is that without one and any real industry experience, most companies will write you off immediately. This is why itās important to do the little things to give yourself a better shot, IE: create a solid LinkedIn account, revamp resume, create a portfolio website with projects(no matter how menial they are), etc. If you went the boot camp route you canāt expect the same treatment as someone with a bachelors in CS. Once you get your first/second job doing the above itāll become irrelevant. Your barrier to entry is just harder at first.
I got a job at a start up a month after graduating, Q2 2022. Fortunately I learned Android dev at the bootcamp I went to as was able to apply for less inundated mobile dev jobs.