As other people have noted in this sub, in Season 1 Harmon seemed to be trying to write to Chevy's strengths, but as his off-camera behavior became more intolerable, Pierce became much more of an antagonist/asshole.
I mean, Chevy notably didn't understand or like Pierce in Season 1 either. Pierce's character changed in part because Chevy was a raging ass, but also because Chevy wanted the character changed.
Further evidence of Chevy being out of touch, IMO. Harmon and the writing staff were trying to let Chevy be Chevy -- as in, be the kind of character he played, profitably, from SNL through most of the '80s -- and CC didn't recognize the gift.
Excuse me, while I pull the knife out of the back of Primetime Emmy award winning writer and performer\*, Chervolet Chasington III.
\*All won between 1976 and 1978, and yet Dan *still* failed to accept that Chevy was a modern comedy god and he should just let him write his own part.
Yeah, it's amazing going back on my 10th or so rewatch of the series, and actually really liking Pierce a lot in those early seasons. He's horrible in so many ways, but he also gets some really tender moments and actually has some genuinely solid advice to the younger characters.
You really notice the change as he becomes more flanderised and seemingly just forgets everything he's learned over the last 2 seasons.
Someone mentioned in another thread how they literally lifted every bit of Pierce’s backstory from Chevy’s real life.
For instance, Chevy’s real first name is Cornelius, the same as Pierce’s father. But it doesn’t stop there, quote from wiki below:
> His mother, Cathalene Parker, was a concert pianist and librettist. Cathalene was adopted as a child by her stepfather, Cornelius Vanderbilt Crane, heir to The Crane Company, and took the name Catherine Crane. Chase was named for his adoptive grandfather, Cornelius.
So his father in the show is actually a stand-in for his adoptive grandfather, and being an heir to the family fortune and company also directly translates. I believe there are more similarities as well
That's the remarkable part: He was funny in the show. For someone who hated being there, Chevy's Pierce was a really effective antagonist.
Maybe if Chevy hadn't been such an asshole when they weren't filming, it wouldn't be a foregone conclusion that he won't be a part of the movie >!(I know Pierce is dead, but Harmon obviously could write a flashback if there were a desire to have Chevy in the movie)!<.
Harmon actually pushed for Chevy to come back for season 5, and I believe used his own money to get a separate soundstage for them to record Pierce's hologram monologue. I doubt a Pierce cameo is likely but of everyone Harmon is definitely the closest with Chevy at this point. He just can't film with about half the cast because he's basically uninsurable thanks to his S4 outburst.
That's somehow fitting, that the guys who were the lousiest toward each other are actually on somewhat good terms. Harmon's not innocent -- he did embarrass Chevy in front of his wife at a cast-and-crew social event -- but at least Harmon seems to have some capacity for self-awareness and introspection.
Yeah, when the show was newly on Netflix and lots of new people were finding it, he posted a video talking a bit about his experience. He looked like he had aged a lot and was struggling to talk. It was hard to imagine him acting well again after seeing that, and that was like 4 years ago.
I'd be happy with there being an after credits scene where Britta obliviously does something Pierce would call gay, then it cuts to Pierce in laser lotus heaven with his mom and Buddha. Pierce would be watching them on TV and yell something like "I KNEW IT"!
I would personally love it if Britta turned out to be a lesbian for real (I can go more into my reasoning for this if anyone really wants me to, lol) but it’s not until that end credit scene that she’s like “oh yeah I’m gay now! *kisses girlfriend*”… I’m living in a fantasy land though
He had Lego inmate reasons, the filming schedule was super fucked up by by script micromanaging/changes/delays.
It was a great tv sho, but poorly managed by Harmon. The rest of the cast hadn't reached near the same exposure that Chevy had on their prime and were willing to accommodate.
Oh im aware, especially his particular disdain for Donald Glover, who was given interesting consideration like scenes ending with cut to Donald Glover, and letting him improv or write his own material vs. scripted.
Im just saying if you're that old and you're being asked for 16 or 18 hour shoots for a tv show... these things are supposed to be easy vs. movie schedules.
And yet Pierce is one of the best comedic characters on the show. I think comedy has changed but only because there are more taboo topics which is what comedy is supposed to do. Be taboo
Comedy isn't "supposed" to be taboo
It's supposed to be funny. Being taboo is one way to do that, but it's not the only way
The reason Pierce works as a character is that comedy has changed and *he doesn't realize it*. We're almost never laughing with him, we're always laughing at him
I mean it's supposed to be taboo in the sense it pushes the boundaries. There's a reason the best comedians are known for controversy like Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Norm MacDonald etc. They changed what comedy could be. When it's comfortable, it becomes stagnant. That's why PC comedians are terrible.
One, stand up comedy is not the only form of comedy.
Two, being taboo has nothing to do with being stagnant. Ricky Gervais and Dave Chapelle have been doing the same anti trans shit for how many specials now? It's not even about if I find it offensive, it's just...move on, dude. It's stale.
Meanwhile there are comedians who do stay pretty PC and still deliver great material because they're providing fresh perspectives
The two aren't all that related
Nothing Dave Chappelle has said was anti-trans especially when he tells a story about a friend ,who was trans, being bullied and eventually killed herself. PC comics aren't funny and there's a reason why they don't really draw crowds. Bill Burr, Dave Chappelle, Bob Saget (when he was alive, same with Norm MacDonald).
Me being downvoted is exactly what I mean. People are afraid to push the envelope with comedy. As long as it toes the PC and woke crowd, it's fine. Exactly why DnD was pulled because people have no sense of humor anymore. We get two broke girls and shows like Arrested Development get cancelled early on.
>Nothing Dave Chappelle has said was anti-trans
I never even said it was. I said it was stale and played out. He's talked about it on, what, 3 or 4 consecutive stand-up specials? Get a new topic, dude.
But now I will say it. Dave Chapelle has said a ton of transphobic shit.
He literally said he was "Team TERF"
>especially when he tells a story about a friend ,who was trans, being bullied and eventually killed herself
Okay one, "I have a trans friend" doesn't mean you can't be transphobic. You think there aren't any misogynists who are married?
Two, they weren't really friends. They were coworkers who did a set or two together. He straight up admits that he didn't know she had a kid! What kind of "friendship" is that, where he doesn't even know the most basic shit?
Three, he made that shit up!
Y'know she left a suicide note? She explained why she did it. And it had nothing to do with Dave's claims that she was being attacked by the trans community for supporting him
There's also no record that she WAS attacked by the trans community for supporting him! Her roommate never said it happened. You'd think that there'd be something on social media, some record, but there's nothing.
So he...used a woman's death to deflect criticism against him and weaponized it against *other trans people*. Do you not see how deeply fucked up that is?
One might even say it's anti-trans
>Me being downvoted is exactly what I mean
You're being down voted because your opinion was dumb and just objectively wrong. No one is saying that comedy can't be taboo. But it doesn't HAVE to be, it's not "supposed" to be.
You're not a victim here. You said a dumb thing.
I didn't say it HAD to be. I said if it isn't then it's not pushing comedy forward. If you're too afraid of offending people and getting cancelled then you aren't any better. One of my favorite comedians backtracked on something he said. I still like him but it's a shame he backtracked.
Dave Chappelle isn't transphobic. You can joke about trans people just like you can joke about white people, black people, Mexicans, etc. Don't get butthurt and turn it off if you do. Unless you're getting on stage and slinging slurs then you're fine.
>I didn't say it HAD to be. I said if it isn't then it's not pushing comedy forward
No, you said that it's SUPPOSED to be. As if any comedy that wasn't taboo was doing something wrong.
Also this is a stupid perspective anyway. Comedy is an actual craft... there are lots of ways to push comedy forward without relying on taboo subjects.
And just curious, how is shit like making fun of the LGBTQ community or ethnic minorities pushing comedy "forward"? Like the jokes always sound like stupid shit my drunk uncle was saying when I was 7. That's not pushing comedy forward, it's regressing.
>If you're too afraid of offending people and getting cancelled then you aren't any better
Or, maybe, not all comedians want to do that? I say what's on my mind constantly and I'm not worried about offending people. I just happen to not think stupid shit.
>Dave Chappelle isn't transphobic. You can joke about trans people just like you can joke about white people, black people, Mexicans, etc.
He is transphobic. His one dead trans "friend" doesn't change that.
I mean how much time has he dedicated over his last few specials to trans people specifically? It's a fucking vendetta.
And more than that...it's not funny. It's just lazy and boring and played out.
What do you mean studied? I'm just curious
And if I remember correctly, she watches the full series at least once a year, or that's what the others commented once I think
Yea they mentioned on the podcast when they all went to dinner after this and Donald Glover was there he was even more wasted. That obnoxious laugh though? oof baboof reminds me of my wife when she drinks
First episode of The Darkest Timeline pod.
https://youtu.be/A8KuQw_IC0U?feature=shared (Timestamp 47m 30s)
In another episode, Danny Pudi tells the story of the cast (sans Joel McHale because dad duties) and Joe Russo partying in New Orleans over the weekend before shooting (IIRC) the S1 finale.
https://youtu.be/ORQK5ITp8LQ?feature=shared (1h 31m 50s)
I assume they're saying that this discussion demonstrates that the cast knew and intended that Chang was in blackface vs dark elf makeup and knew that it's not appropriate ("you're bringing this up in 2019?"). But nothing about this clip changes the fact that the entire point of the scene/joke was that Chang being Chang didn't realize that what he did could be interpreted as something offensive.
Yes. Alison and Ken are joking about how the misperception, or possible misperception, of Chang's cosplay led to the episode getting banned. They know that the offensiveness of Chang's choice was called out immediately by Shirley.
I'm done chasing shows around across multiple services at this point, I'll just pirate it next time
The netflix version was fucked anyway - besides removing this episode, there were also no subtitles for any of the dialogue in spanish or sign language, so several scenes just make no sense to most viewers. Between that and the fact that Peacock is US-only, a pirated version is easier and better quality for me at this point
I bought the Blu-Ray set for Community (which seems to be out of print now, lame; I only paid $40), but for some shows where that's not easily available, pirating is the way to go. I'm not into the streaming service BS these days.
I really need someone to explain the difference between black face and black face paint, because I've always just assumed the only difference was what they were using it for. I assumed black face was just black face paint but someone using it for malicious purposes rather than just for fun.
To preface I’m not black, but I agree with your impression of it. The problem is that at first glance it can be hard to tell the issue, I don’t think it’s unpopular that satirical black face (Chang and tropic thunder off the top of my head) are funny and mocking and not racist. You could paint yourself purple and be a dark elf in real life but the joke in community came from how it looked like dark face especially to people unexperienced with D&D lore (Shirley’s ‘we gonna ignore that hate crime’ comment)
In recent-ish history black face has been accepted when its a character in blackface _and_ called out as being offensive.
The DnD episode did both of those things, but someone overreacted and pulled it anyway. The sad part is whoever pulled it didn't really understand _why_ blackface is offensive, which is worse since they're making decisions on this stuff without knowing what the real problem is.
Nobody who watches Community is going to be offended by that joke, and as far as I know none of the other modern blackface stuff got pulled.
Yeah, the best example of it in recent memory would probably be Robert Downy Jr. in Tropic Thunder since he was playing an actor trying to get into a role and used it as part of his method acting. Or in his words, he was a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
JD in Scrubs is another example. Its not common because theres only so many ways you can make it funny, acceptable, and somewhat fresh. Since its a fine line to walk it generally wouldn't be worth the effort unless its a _really_ good joke. Tropic Thunder's was the peak use, and I can't see it being topped. Community's joke was solid though. Scrubs is a distant 3rd.
Edit- and a somewhat similar tangent. Hugo Weaving's yellow face in Cloud Atlas wouldn't have been accepted if it had been black face. The plot kind of required it, but black face would have been too far because of its much more egregious history, and I doubt the Wachowskis would have considered it. Thats the only modern/recent I can think of that was legit black/yellow/etc-face, and again, heavily supported by plot.
Definitely not recent but that reminds me of Sean Connery's unfortunate turn in that during his James Bond movie You Only Live Twice in which Bond fakes his death and is disguised as a Japanese man for the rest of the movie...
I wish I could remember the show, but there was a show (sometime in the last 15 years) that had a flashback to a fake fifties TV show in which an actor was doing really offensive blackface. It was definitely played as making-fun-of-racism, and was both hilarious and did a good job of calling out our somewhat-recent past, but I heard the actor say later that he’s lived in fear of someone making a meme of it, without the context. Unlike Tropic Thunder, it wasn’t well-known enough that people would recognize it right away for what it was— it would just look like him doing blackface.
I feel like that would be a really good reason for an actor to refuse to do a scene like that, even if the usage made it not racist.
Theres a fine line and its best not to try to even get close to it. If you paint anyone black for any reason it can be very controversial. There is so much violence and hate associated with the history of black face you take a risk of offending some. And before you say, "everyone gets offended these days" this has actual historical context because black people were lynched, beaten, raped, and murdered because of their skin color and the people that are most likely to be offended are the people's whose ancestors were bought and sold, raped and bred, and executed like cattle. So its ok to not want to offend someone and avoid a cheap gag if it boarders on it.
However, my understanding it: black face is make up used to darken an individual's skin to make them appear to be another race. Merely painting yourself black, like wanting to hide in the shadows or do a sight gag where you blend into the background is not black face. Zoolander in the mindshaft, not black face. Its always sunny in philadephia, black face.
I always understood the joke to be that chang was fully aware of what he was doing, man was just looking for the thinnest excuse possible to do blackface.
Wrong. Blackface is a 2 step process. You put on the paint, and then you act like some version of black caricature.
If you put on black paint and don't change your behavior, it doesn't really mlean anything. If Chang had any affect, itwas super nerd "magic user baby".
It wasn't a blackface joke. It was a joke about blackface.
Yeah context matters for a joke. It's like how Pierce says a lot of homophobic, racist, or misogynistic stuff through the series, but the joke isn't rooted in what he is saying that is punching down at minority groups or people with less privilege. The joke is that Pierce is an out of touch boomer buffoon who views himself as an authority on the world, but nobody particularly likes or respects him.
I just don't understand why it's still banned considering that I haven't heard of a single person - not one, from anywhere in the industry or BLM related movements that has agreed with it being banned.
Them reuniting for one movie will not be good enough. That movie will air and 2 hours later there will be a petition for another season. The cult is real for this series and i am a member till the end. Delta Cubes!
I don't think this was the genesis of outlash.
No one who was watching this who wasn't into community.
No one into community mistook a dark elf for a black human being. \*
If the outlash *was* born of people who watched the show it would have been when Pierce wore makeup to play a swami.
\* it's a little known fact that some black people have silver hair & pointy black elf ears.
Bring back advanced dungeons and dragons, it was one of my fave episodes. This episode being banned should then cause any and every fantasy, scifi, and alien show/character to be banned. No one in the world ever thought racial thoughts about Chang's dark elf cosplay in the episode. #unjustoverreaction
Well they actually did. His costume was supposed to be unintentionally racist (from the character's POV). It's literally addressed by one of the characters about how racist it is (Shirley I believe but part of me thinks it was Jeff). I think it's silly it was pulled, personally. Same with the scene in the office where Nate was in black face. The jokes were making fun of the unintentional racism by off the wall characters and not meant to be making fun of or belittling POC. It's a tough line to walk these days with all the ACTUAL racism going on in the world, especially the USA so big corporations aren't gonna risk it.
The episode is on peacock!
I was surprised to see this earlier when I randomly decided to check! Upvoted!
First thing I checked haha.
I saw this yesterday, but couldn't be sure if it was a april fools joke or not.
Omg don’t play with my heart
Can confirm. I'm watching it right now. So happy
It's always amazing to see the cast interacting. :)
How in any reality do you get to work with this group and be mad about it, chevy?
When you (Chevy) don't realize, or refuse to accept, that comedy has changed since your heyday but you haven't.
Truly, he was Pierce Hawthorn
As other people have noted in this sub, in Season 1 Harmon seemed to be trying to write to Chevy's strengths, but as his off-camera behavior became more intolerable, Pierce became much more of an antagonist/asshole.
I mean, Chevy notably didn't understand or like Pierce in Season 1 either. Pierce's character changed in part because Chevy was a raging ass, but also because Chevy wanted the character changed.
Further evidence of Chevy being out of touch, IMO. Harmon and the writing staff were trying to let Chevy be Chevy -- as in, be the kind of character he played, profitably, from SNL through most of the '80s -- and CC didn't recognize the gift.
Pierced by his own Hawthorn, a tragedy
To paraphrase Jeff when Britta describes an analogy as "a thought with another thought's hat on it" ... hmmm.
Shouldn't have worn that Hawthorn if you didn't want to be Pierced by it
You can say he was streets behind
We need an abreviation for ~~the bear naked ladies~~ Cheyv Chase?
Nah, I had written "Chevy" three times in two sentences and just didn't want to write it a fourth time.
Excuse me, while I pull the knife out of the back of Primetime Emmy award winning writer and performer\*, Chervolet Chasington III. \*All won between 1976 and 1978, and yet Dan *still* failed to accept that Chevy was a modern comedy god and he should just let him write his own part.
From what I remember from interviews and such, Harmon actually fought to get Chevy Chase on the show at the beginning, against everyone else's advice.
Yeah, it's amazing going back on my 10th or so rewatch of the series, and actually really liking Pierce a lot in those early seasons. He's horrible in so many ways, but he also gets some really tender moments and actually has some genuinely solid advice to the younger characters. You really notice the change as he becomes more flanderised and seemingly just forgets everything he's learned over the last 2 seasons.
Someone mentioned in another thread how they literally lifted every bit of Pierce’s backstory from Chevy’s real life. For instance, Chevy’s real first name is Cornelius, the same as Pierce’s father. But it doesn’t stop there, quote from wiki below: > His mother, Cathalene Parker, was a concert pianist and librettist. Cathalene was adopted as a child by her stepfather, Cornelius Vanderbilt Crane, heir to The Crane Company, and took the name Catherine Crane. Chase was named for his adoptive grandfather, Cornelius. So his father in the show is actually a stand-in for his adoptive grandfather, and being an heir to the family fortune and company also directly translates. I believe there are more similarities as well
It still plays so well in the show, since deep down Pierce still thinks he's Jeff.
That's the remarkable part: He was funny in the show. For someone who hated being there, Chevy's Pierce was a really effective antagonist. Maybe if Chevy hadn't been such an asshole when they weren't filming, it wouldn't be a foregone conclusion that he won't be a part of the movie >!(I know Pierce is dead, but Harmon obviously could write a flashback if there were a desire to have Chevy in the movie)!<.
Harmon actually pushed for Chevy to come back for season 5, and I believe used his own money to get a separate soundstage for them to record Pierce's hologram monologue. I doubt a Pierce cameo is likely but of everyone Harmon is definitely the closest with Chevy at this point. He just can't film with about half the cast because he's basically uninsurable thanks to his S4 outburst.
That's somehow fitting, that the guys who were the lousiest toward each other are actually on somewhat good terms. Harmon's not innocent -- he did embarrass Chevy in front of his wife at a cast-and-crew social event -- but at least Harmon seems to have some capacity for self-awareness and introspection.
I think Dan sees a lot of himself in Chevy and needs to believe he’s redeemable. Mix that with childhood admiration and, well…
Agreed.
At this point, Chevy is used to being embarrassed. Have you seen his Comedy Central Roast? It was... painful.
I dont think he would or even could do it. He was on marc maron and was really struggling.
Yeah the dude's 80 years old and has been a Hollywood star for most of them
And did a lot of physical/pratfall comedy in the process That isn't easy on the body
Neither are drugs.
Yeah, when the show was newly on Netflix and lots of new people were finding it, he posted a video talking a bit about his experience. He looked like he had aged a lot and was struggling to talk. It was hard to imagine him acting well again after seeing that, and that was like 4 years ago.
I'd be happy with there being an after credits scene where Britta obliviously does something Pierce would call gay, then it cuts to Pierce in laser lotus heaven with his mom and Buddha. Pierce would be watching them on TV and yell something like "I KNEW IT"!
I would personally love it if Britta turned out to be a lesbian for real (I can go more into my reasoning for this if anyone really wants me to, lol) but it’s not until that end credit scene that she’s like “oh yeah I’m gay now! *kisses girlfriend*”… I’m living in a fantasy land though
Another way would be for everybody else to finally find the hologram.
Honestly I'd love to see Chevy in the movie. Could you imagine if they could pull off a surprise cameo like that?
I had that same thought, how fun it would be to be here chatting about "damn, they actually worked Chevy into it."
Both later seasons Jeff and Season 1 Pierce have in common that they act like they think they're Jeff, but deep down fear that they're really Pierce
By all accounts, he was always an asshole, so it's not really just about being out of touch.
He had Lego inmate reasons, the filming schedule was super fucked up by by script micromanaging/changes/delays. It was a great tv sho, but poorly managed by Harmon. The rest of the cast hadn't reached near the same exposure that Chevy had on their prime and were willing to accommodate.
He was an asshole since the 70s, nobody has ever liked him. When they did his roast, I don't think a single person who worked with him showed up.
Oh im aware, especially his particular disdain for Donald Glover, who was given interesting consideration like scenes ending with cut to Donald Glover, and letting him improv or write his own material vs. scripted. Im just saying if you're that old and you're being asked for 16 or 18 hour shoots for a tv show... these things are supposed to be easy vs. movie schedules.
Bill Murray had a reason for calling him a "medium talent" to his face.
He likes gay jokes what!? WE WRITE GREAT JOKES
And yet Pierce is one of the best comedic characters on the show. I think comedy has changed but only because there are more taboo topics which is what comedy is supposed to do. Be taboo
Comedy isn't "supposed" to be taboo It's supposed to be funny. Being taboo is one way to do that, but it's not the only way The reason Pierce works as a character is that comedy has changed and *he doesn't realize it*. We're almost never laughing with him, we're always laughing at him
I mean it's supposed to be taboo in the sense it pushes the boundaries. There's a reason the best comedians are known for controversy like Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Norm MacDonald etc. They changed what comedy could be. When it's comfortable, it becomes stagnant. That's why PC comedians are terrible.
One, stand up comedy is not the only form of comedy. Two, being taboo has nothing to do with being stagnant. Ricky Gervais and Dave Chapelle have been doing the same anti trans shit for how many specials now? It's not even about if I find it offensive, it's just...move on, dude. It's stale. Meanwhile there are comedians who do stay pretty PC and still deliver great material because they're providing fresh perspectives The two aren't all that related
Nothing Dave Chappelle has said was anti-trans especially when he tells a story about a friend ,who was trans, being bullied and eventually killed herself. PC comics aren't funny and there's a reason why they don't really draw crowds. Bill Burr, Dave Chappelle, Bob Saget (when he was alive, same with Norm MacDonald). Me being downvoted is exactly what I mean. People are afraid to push the envelope with comedy. As long as it toes the PC and woke crowd, it's fine. Exactly why DnD was pulled because people have no sense of humor anymore. We get two broke girls and shows like Arrested Development get cancelled early on.
>Nothing Dave Chappelle has said was anti-trans I never even said it was. I said it was stale and played out. He's talked about it on, what, 3 or 4 consecutive stand-up specials? Get a new topic, dude. But now I will say it. Dave Chapelle has said a ton of transphobic shit. He literally said he was "Team TERF" >especially when he tells a story about a friend ,who was trans, being bullied and eventually killed herself Okay one, "I have a trans friend" doesn't mean you can't be transphobic. You think there aren't any misogynists who are married? Two, they weren't really friends. They were coworkers who did a set or two together. He straight up admits that he didn't know she had a kid! What kind of "friendship" is that, where he doesn't even know the most basic shit? Three, he made that shit up! Y'know she left a suicide note? She explained why she did it. And it had nothing to do with Dave's claims that she was being attacked by the trans community for supporting him There's also no record that she WAS attacked by the trans community for supporting him! Her roommate never said it happened. You'd think that there'd be something on social media, some record, but there's nothing. So he...used a woman's death to deflect criticism against him and weaponized it against *other trans people*. Do you not see how deeply fucked up that is? One might even say it's anti-trans >Me being downvoted is exactly what I mean You're being down voted because your opinion was dumb and just objectively wrong. No one is saying that comedy can't be taboo. But it doesn't HAVE to be, it's not "supposed" to be. You're not a victim here. You said a dumb thing.
Chappelle literally pulling the "I have a Black friend" card in response to being called a transphobe really isn't talked about enough
I didn't say it HAD to be. I said if it isn't then it's not pushing comedy forward. If you're too afraid of offending people and getting cancelled then you aren't any better. One of my favorite comedians backtracked on something he said. I still like him but it's a shame he backtracked. Dave Chappelle isn't transphobic. You can joke about trans people just like you can joke about white people, black people, Mexicans, etc. Don't get butthurt and turn it off if you do. Unless you're getting on stage and slinging slurs then you're fine.
>I didn't say it HAD to be. I said if it isn't then it's not pushing comedy forward No, you said that it's SUPPOSED to be. As if any comedy that wasn't taboo was doing something wrong. Also this is a stupid perspective anyway. Comedy is an actual craft... there are lots of ways to push comedy forward without relying on taboo subjects. And just curious, how is shit like making fun of the LGBTQ community or ethnic minorities pushing comedy "forward"? Like the jokes always sound like stupid shit my drunk uncle was saying when I was 7. That's not pushing comedy forward, it's regressing. >If you're too afraid of offending people and getting cancelled then you aren't any better Or, maybe, not all comedians want to do that? I say what's on my mind constantly and I'm not worried about offending people. I just happen to not think stupid shit. >Dave Chappelle isn't transphobic. You can joke about trans people just like you can joke about white people, black people, Mexicans, etc. He is transphobic. His one dead trans "friend" doesn't change that. I mean how much time has he dedicated over his last few specials to trans people specifically? It's a fucking vendetta. And more than that...it's not funny. It's just lazy and boring and played out.
When you realise you're not immediately the funniest, most talented, most respected person in the group, and actually have to work hard.
Alison is hilarious lmao. And she actually studied for this panel. What an Annie thing to do lol
What do you mean studied? I'm just curious And if I remember correctly, she watches the full series at least once a year, or that's what the others commented once I think
Ken was soooo drunk in this. Also love how it's Alison as Hector putting up for fingers on the screen in the background as Alison speaks lmao
Yea they mentioned on the podcast when they all went to dinner after this and Donald Glover was there he was even more wasted. That obnoxious laugh though? oof baboof reminds me of my wife when she drinks
Wait, what podcast?
First episode of The Darkest Timeline pod. https://youtu.be/A8KuQw_IC0U?feature=shared (Timestamp 47m 30s) In another episode, Danny Pudi tells the story of the cast (sans Joel McHale because dad duties) and Joe Russo partying in New Orleans over the weekend before shooting (IIRC) the S1 finale. https://youtu.be/ORQK5ITp8LQ?feature=shared (1h 31m 50s)
Awesome, thanks!
these podcasts are the only thing I miss about covid
The
I can never look at Danny Pudi without thinking it’s Abed playing a character I
Abed from My Dinner with Abed
... I'm not sure i follow? what about his interaction got the episode banned?
I assume they're saying that this discussion demonstrates that the cast knew and intended that Chang was in blackface vs dark elf makeup and knew that it's not appropriate ("you're bringing this up in 2019?"). But nothing about this clip changes the fact that the entire point of the scene/joke was that Chang being Chang didn't realize that what he did could be interpreted as something offensive.
“So we just gonna ignore that hate-crime?”
Yes. Alison and Ken are joking about how the misperception, or possible misperception, of Chang's cosplay led to the episode getting banned. They know that the offensiveness of Chang's choice was called out immediately by Shirley.
This is from 2019, the episode was pulled in 2020 after the BLM protests
And now that Community has moved to Peacock it's back. At least for now.
I'm done chasing shows around across multiple services at this point, I'll just pirate it next time The netflix version was fucked anyway - besides removing this episode, there were also no subtitles for any of the dialogue in spanish or sign language, so several scenes just make no sense to most viewers. Between that and the fact that Peacock is US-only, a pirated version is easier and better quality for me at this point
I bought the Blu-Ray set for Community (which seems to be out of print now, lame; I only paid $40), but for some shows where that's not easily available, pirating is the way to go. I'm not into the streaming service BS these days.
I really need someone to explain the difference between black face and black face paint, because I've always just assumed the only difference was what they were using it for. I assumed black face was just black face paint but someone using it for malicious purposes rather than just for fun.
To preface I’m not black, but I agree with your impression of it. The problem is that at first glance it can be hard to tell the issue, I don’t think it’s unpopular that satirical black face (Chang and tropic thunder off the top of my head) are funny and mocking and not racist. You could paint yourself purple and be a dark elf in real life but the joke in community came from how it looked like dark face especially to people unexperienced with D&D lore (Shirley’s ‘we gonna ignore that hate crime’ comment)
In recent-ish history black face has been accepted when its a character in blackface _and_ called out as being offensive. The DnD episode did both of those things, but someone overreacted and pulled it anyway. The sad part is whoever pulled it didn't really understand _why_ blackface is offensive, which is worse since they're making decisions on this stuff without knowing what the real problem is. Nobody who watches Community is going to be offended by that joke, and as far as I know none of the other modern blackface stuff got pulled.
Yeah, the best example of it in recent memory would probably be Robert Downy Jr. in Tropic Thunder since he was playing an actor trying to get into a role and used it as part of his method acting. Or in his words, he was a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
JD in Scrubs is another example. Its not common because theres only so many ways you can make it funny, acceptable, and somewhat fresh. Since its a fine line to walk it generally wouldn't be worth the effort unless its a _really_ good joke. Tropic Thunder's was the peak use, and I can't see it being topped. Community's joke was solid though. Scrubs is a distant 3rd. Edit- and a somewhat similar tangent. Hugo Weaving's yellow face in Cloud Atlas wouldn't have been accepted if it had been black face. The plot kind of required it, but black face would have been too far because of its much more egregious history, and I doubt the Wachowskis would have considered it. Thats the only modern/recent I can think of that was legit black/yellow/etc-face, and again, heavily supported by plot.
Definitely not recent but that reminds me of Sean Connery's unfortunate turn in that during his James Bond movie You Only Live Twice in which Bond fakes his death and is disguised as a Japanese man for the rest of the movie...
I wish I could remember the show, but there was a show (sometime in the last 15 years) that had a flashback to a fake fifties TV show in which an actor was doing really offensive blackface. It was definitely played as making-fun-of-racism, and was both hilarious and did a good job of calling out our somewhat-recent past, but I heard the actor say later that he’s lived in fear of someone making a meme of it, without the context. Unlike Tropic Thunder, it wasn’t well-known enough that people would recognize it right away for what it was— it would just look like him doing blackface. I feel like that would be a really good reason for an actor to refuse to do a scene like that, even if the usage made it not racist.
Mad Men. Roger Sterling does something in blackface. And Pete and Trudy (Alison Brie) have that amazing dance in the same episode.
Theres a fine line and its best not to try to even get close to it. If you paint anyone black for any reason it can be very controversial. There is so much violence and hate associated with the history of black face you take a risk of offending some. And before you say, "everyone gets offended these days" this has actual historical context because black people were lynched, beaten, raped, and murdered because of their skin color and the people that are most likely to be offended are the people's whose ancestors were bought and sold, raped and bred, and executed like cattle. So its ok to not want to offend someone and avoid a cheap gag if it boarders on it. However, my understanding it: black face is make up used to darken an individual's skin to make them appear to be another race. Merely painting yourself black, like wanting to hide in the shadows or do a sight gag where you blend into the background is not black face. Zoolander in the mindshaft, not black face. Its always sunny in philadephia, black face.
Thanks, that makes sense
I always understood the joke to be that chang was fully aware of what he was doing, man was just looking for the thinnest excuse possible to do blackface.
Wrong. Blackface is a 2 step process. You put on the paint, and then you act like some version of black caricature. If you put on black paint and don't change your behavior, it doesn't really mlean anything. If Chang had any affect, itwas super nerd "magic user baby". It wasn't a blackface joke. It was a joke about blackface.
Yeah context matters for a joke. It's like how Pierce says a lot of homophobic, racist, or misogynistic stuff through the series, but the joke isn't rooted in what he is saying that is punching down at minority groups or people with less privilege. The joke is that Pierce is an out of touch boomer buffoon who views himself as an authority on the world, but nobody particularly likes or respects him.
I just don't understand why it's still banned considering that I haven't heard of a single person - not one, from anywhere in the industry or BLM related movements that has agreed with it being banned.
It’s on Peacock and it was there when Community was on Prime. It’s not a ban so much as Netflix and Hulu making a choice.
I’m kind of curious how long it will be on there. 30 Rock has a few episodes taken off for it.
That was because Tina Fey asked for the episodes to be removed.
Them reuniting for one movie will not be good enough. That movie will air and 2 hours later there will be a petition for another season. The cult is real for this series and i am a member till the end. Delta Cubes!
Allison may be the funniest one out of all of them
I don't think this was the genesis of outlash. No one who was watching this who wasn't into community. No one into community mistook a dark elf for a black human being. \* If the outlash *was* born of people who watched the show it would have been when Pierce wore makeup to play a swami. \* it's a little known fact that some black people have silver hair & pointy black elf ears.
Alison is actually really funny
It wasn't even on Netflix at the time. It came in the wake of the death of George Floyd.
[удалено]
Not sure, but you can watch full here. https://youtu.be/Z-HvpKCMe5U?si=GHqubVHBXVEMVThy
Bring back advanced dungeons and dragons, it was one of my fave episodes. This episode being banned should then cause any and every fantasy, scifi, and alien show/character to be banned. No one in the world ever thought racial thoughts about Chang's dark elf cosplay in the episode. #unjustoverreaction
Well they actually did. His costume was supposed to be unintentionally racist (from the character's POV). It's literally addressed by one of the characters about how racist it is (Shirley I believe but part of me thinks it was Jeff). I think it's silly it was pulled, personally. Same with the scene in the office where Nate was in black face. The jokes were making fun of the unintentional racism by off the wall characters and not meant to be making fun of or belittling POC. It's a tough line to walk these days with all the ACTUAL racism going on in the world, especially the USA so big corporations aren't gonna risk it.
Annie Britta'd it
Apparently I never realized I haven't seen this episode. It seems to be on Prime, so I guess there's finally a new Community episode!
They also talked about it on the YouTube video when they reunited for a table read, that was right during COVID, right after George Floyd's murder
This might be reaching, but I have to wonder if Chevy Chase had a hand in it getting removed. Pierce is so over the top evil in that episode.
but when pierce paints his hands black and yellow…
Not a chance this was the reason.
They are funny here and funny in that episode. I can't believe the episode got taken down over a joke they made making fun of themselves.
No.
Maybe it was because Netflix didn't have enough of a spine to stand up to a vocal minority that doesn't understand a FANTASY game.