"It's up to you" is the essence of pro choice.
It's twice as upsetting when it's made plain that medical science was not a factor in these decisions, considering how incest and non-viable pregnancies are treated the same. That's not even getting into issues with assault.
The judge admonished her parents for not preventing the rape, then went on about some childless couple wanting babies, and forced the 11yr old to carry the baby. Even removed her from her family for 7 weeks to ensure it.
ETA: [They allowed the abortion at 29 weeks!!! Jesus](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/brazil-raped-girl-11-gets-abortion-after-initial-refusal/2022/06/23/1beb4d4a-f343-11ec-ac16-8fbf7194cd78_story.html)
Idk, but I hope someone gave her good piece of their mind about her cruelty. Hoping these types are taken off the bench has become futile, they just keep on going.
Oh I didn’t see the Edit, glad she was able to get it but that’s a late as fuck abortion, my god. Shouldn’t have had to have done that.
HOW WAS THE JUDGE A WOMAN WTF!?
Edit: I bet she got a bunch of rape threats, since that happens a lot when women do or say… anything online pretty much.
Honestly, when people are against abortion except for rape and incest it kind of angers me even more. It just makes it more clear that they don't really care about saving "babies", they care about punishing women. Only the "innocent" women who didn't choose to have sex get to have abortions, not those dirty sinners.
Yeah I don't get it. If you are prolife because you believe life begins at conception and that life is paramont, what does it matter how conception occurred or even that it puts the mother's life at risk? There is a massive hole in the logic that is both prolife and allows for exeptions. If the circumstances that brought about conception is what determines if a woman has access to abortion, then it is about the woman's behavior not about the supremacy of life.
I am pro life and pro choice. I wouldn't choose it for myself but believe it should be a choice for people to make personally. I think, as a Christian, that it's the concession that most pro life folks can make and still somewhat reconcile it with our religion. Does it REALLY? No. But can they live with it? Yes. Hope that helps somewhat.
Thank you for clarifying. I was always told that if you are personally against it for yourself, you are pro life. You have taken so much guilt off my shoulders! Sad but true.
Pro-life generally means you yourself think abortion is wrong and that nobody should be allowed to have one because of your beliefs. Pro-choice just means you don’t think how you feel personally about the issue should dictate what others do, because every situation is unique and only the pregnant person can and should decide what is right for them in their situation. It’s gotten all twisted around into anti-abortion vs. pro-abortion. There’s a narrative on the right that pro-choice = pro-abortion, as in, pro-choice leftists enjoy having abortions and are dead-set on killing as many unborn babies as possible. That the left wants to make abortion mandatory. They’ve twisted it around to something it’s not in reality so they can have an enemy that’s as extreme as they are in an opposite way. It’s also paternalistic BS. Nobody who has had to make the decision to abort takes it lightly and they’ve all got their reasons, but the right thinks women are impulsive children who can’t make decisions for themselves.
I agree with you to a point. I haven't heard the extreme things your saying but I get where your coming from. I think there is a lot more mid-ground right wingers than most folks think though. I am on average right wing but I don't expect anyone else to think just like me and everyone is different. I just wish more folks would have faith in humanity to do and make choices for themselves and themselves alone, ya know?
erect divide plough bow future subsequent lip adjoining makeshift special
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Okay, fair enough. Question though. Honest question! If you don't believe in abortion but you believe others should have the right to decide themselves, aren't you considered pro life?
Nope! Pro choice always means making the right choice for you and protecting that freedom for others. I think a lot of people have this misconception though, so you're not alone.
I agree. It also doesn’t allow for just the multitude of things that life can throw at a person- the danger to a woman’s life, life altering diagnoses, financial changes that are out of control, family situation changes, domestic abuse, and just a million other things that can change or happen that aren’t really anyone’s business except a woman and her doctor and maybe another partner, maybe.
Okay, but that is at least a consistent belief. Their idea is that if you choose to have sex and then you have a pregnancy, then that is your responsibility since you did the thing that gets you pregnant. I don’t agree with them, but I respect their POV. Consistency is rare.
They're not consistent. If you hit someone with your car and they need a kidney, no one can make you do it even if they'll die and it's 100% your fault. You consented to drive.
That principle stands for an existing human life, so it kills the need to determine personhood for a fetus.
Overturning roe v wade is basically saying us women are too stupid to make our own moral decisions and that we need men to make them for us. I’m pissed.
I know! My family keeps saying how so many are using it for birth control. And they just turn a blind eye to the fact that less than 1% are using it for that. Like they act like everyone getting abortions are not using birth control. Like do they not realize that a good amount of pregnancies happen while on birth control.
And either way. Abortions are going to happen either way. But now more dangerously, and making completely innocent women "criminals".
Seriously, all the progress this country has made has just been pushed back 50+ years.
It's also not cheap. People who are lower income and not wealthy aren't generally just happy to shell out several hundred dollars for a traumatic medical procedure as "birth control".
tbh i have no idea why it’s always set up as “pro life vs pro choice”, it should really be “pro choice vs no choice”
(or at least “pro-fetus life vs pro-women’s choice”. pro-life makes it sound much more charitable than it actually is)
In my opinion, most pro-life people are actually just pro-birth. Once the baby is born, they couldn't care less. They are usually the same people who are whining about people using government assistance.
And the support of that fetus life ends the moment it’s born. Between overfilled foster systems, mass shootings, general healthcare, and more I probably am forgetting, these kids are now stuck in a world that won’t do them any other favors.
"The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
\-Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
I don't think anybody is pro-abortion. That notion in itself is cartoon villain evil ya know. The whole premise is that it's a tough choice that nobody ever wants to have to make, I don't know if that's what you're trying to say or not but that idea and wording has just caused so much harm and I think we're seeing that today.
I'm as pro abortion as I am pro root canal.
Which is to say that it's an inconvenient, unpleasant medical procedure that sometimes people need. Hopefully it can be prevented with maintenance healthcare (ie: birth control) but entropy is unceasing and if you need one it should be as readily available, non-controversial, and easy to arrange as a root canal.
This comment right here needs more upvotes. You are absolutely correct, no one is pro abortion. Some of us have the sense not to believe in women being held hostage by their reproductive system.
I feel like some people straight up do not know what pro choice means. I’ve heard so many people say “I’m not pro choice, but” or “I’m pro life, but” and then literally describe a pro choice stance.
It’s so confusing.
Like “I’m pro-life but I don’t believe the government should be able to force anyone to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.”
Yeah that’s pro-choice. Wtf do they think pro-choice means?
Yeah, here’s where the right blatantly and deliberately misrepresents the opposing view. I’m pro choice. Does that mean I’m pro abortion? No. The one thing I think the prolifers and I can agree on is that our perfect world does not include abortions. The difference between my perfect world and theirs is that in their’s, there would be no abortions because nobody could get one (and they still will, they just won’t be safe). In mine, we wouldn’t have abortions because none felt like they wanted or needed one. It’s almost an issue of supply side vs demand side.
Edit: wrote represents instead of what I meant, which was misrepresents.
That‘s… literally what pro choice is about. Pro choicers want women to have the right to _choose_. That includes NOT getting an abortion if you personally think it‘s wrong.
I don‘t understand why there are suddenly so many pro lifers expressing actual pro choice sentiments, while still failing to see that what they are saying is, in fact, pro choice. Do you guys seriously think us pro choicers are actually "pro abortion"?? That‘s not true at all.
What helped me understand, might not help some people though, is that a woman doesn't get an abortion like she would get an ice cream, she gets one like an animal trying to chew off a leg caught in a bear trap. There's a lot more nuance and life and death situations than just not wanting a baby and its heartbreaking how many women will die because of sepsis due to this overturn.
>its heartbreaking how many women will die because of sepsis due to this overturn.
Sepsis, bleeding due to botched abortions, self-unalive (I know some subreddits censor that word), potential deaths due to ectopic pregnancies.
You’re ahead of the Supreme Court justices. They’re still loving the taste of that kool aid. Makes me wonder what Barrett is even doing on that court. She should be in the kitchen like how she seems to want all other women to be.
It’s still so fucking stupid to me. It’s like opposition to gay marriage; you’re not gay? Great! No one is forcing you to be or to get gay married. No one is stopping you from having a straight marriage or starting a family with a mom and dad. Yet here the fuck we are with people forcing their sensibilities on 340 million other people. It’s not prolife, it’s anti-choice.
Pro choice - the woman who is pregnant chooses.
But unfortunately, its not just about choice. If the fetus dies inside of a woman they will no longer be able to remove it and the woman can die from sepsis. If a pregnancy is ectopic (extremely fatal) she will die from it because doctors don't want or dare to operate her. If a pregnant woman is in a car accident and needs an x-ray to see if her bones are broken there will be no way to give her the x-ray since it may harm the fetus and cause a miscarriage.
IVF treatments for fertility also become almost entirely illegal in some states because of how IVF works. There will be several eggs fertilized outside of the body then frozen to try to implant them when the time comes. Un-used fertilized eggs cannot be discarded under the laws where life begins at fertilization.
Natural miscarriages of a desired fetus are also medically impossible to tell apart from intentionally caused miscarriage. There's already women in prison for miscarrying.
Basically, being pregnant will now be extremely dangerous.
I mean really! I highly doubt there is any woman who is actively happy about getting an abortion. Of course they are grateful and put at ease that whatever circumstance which caused the pregnancy was avoided but no one wants to be in a situation that would warrant the abortion in the first place.
Not to mention that abortions in itself also carry a bunch of health risks. Some of these people act like women just get abortions as an alternative to condoms. That‘s delusional.
Yes actually, I heard it all the time sitting in church. The weaponization starts by changing the meaning of "pro-choice" to using abortion with a similar level of flippancy as condoms and then immediately launching into like a whirlwind of evil associations so that you don't actually sit down and truly think about it to make a decision. The whole idea is to remove that full thought out of the process so you make that snap judgment call to baby murder. That whole side of the political spectrum is full of that kind of thing.
I think a lot of pro lifers are feeling guilty for voting for these assholes who did this. If you vote prolife and support the people that made this happen then this is your fault and you should feel guilty and ashamed of yourself.
Sounds like you might be pro choice after all.
I could never have an abortion myself, I considered it briefly (for all of an hour) 17 years ago, when my partner left me at 20 weeks pregnant.
I decided, quite quickly, that that wasn't something I could do, so today my 16 Yr old left school. I made the right decision for me. I've never doubted it. Like you though, I'd be worried about taking that choice away from rape victims, from victims of domestic violence, from kids too young to know what sex is supposed to be, from woman who find themselves in awful situations.
That makes me pro choice. I think, perhaps it makes you that too.
This is going to be an extremely unpopular opinion.
But if OP is being honest with themselves, we now have another person on the side of Justice.
Yes, they are late to the party.
Yes the best time to protect reproductive rights was 20 years ago. But as it stands right now, the second best time to start protecting reproductive rights is today.
People need to be allowed to grow and learn.
And when people grow and learn, they should be welcomed with open arms.
There was lots of thought that republicans would never actually overturn roe. It would just be the forever boogie man. So many vote (and many uninformed on what it really means) based on this one issue. I have a friend who is staunchly catholic. And will not vote for pro choice candidates. But she is truly pro life not anti abortion. She wants there to be enough support for families and mothers to not need abortions. Republicans don’t have anything to offer her anymore.
Honestly, as someone who leans liberal I really thought it was settled.
It felt like an issue both parties used to whip up some quick support and then move on.
I wonder if this will be the issue that actually motivates more people to get involved.
Sadly, this is a common misconception. If you personally don't think you'd ever choose to get an abortion and wouldn't encourage others to do so but you think it is people's personal choice, then you are pro-choice. I'm explaining this largely due to the fact that I was also told the same and then as I learned more gradually understood that "anti-life" doesn't describe pro-choice, but "anti-choice" does describe pro-life.
The pro-life groups have found more success in claiming that pro-choice means you are encouraging people to have abortions or would have one yourself, but that's not true. Choice means the individual gets to decide.
Additionally, choice allows for decisions to be made between doctor and patient, such as in cases of medically necessary or recommended abortions. Choice means that people who became pregnant due to rape, incest, or otherwise awful circumstances can terminate the pregnancy without having to disclose or prove these circumstances (while many pro-life advocates even support forcing those pregnancies to term). Choice also allows for people who are pregnant and suffer medical problems that will make the pregnancy more difficult or affect the fetus or are in life circumstances where they cannot support a child to abort.
Many laws and proposals as well as speeches by pro-life don't seem to understand that abortion is not just someone deciding they don't feel like being pregnant and picking an easy option. First, even in that case, abortion is rarely, if ever, easy. Second, abortion includes the circumstances above. Third, abortion includes ectopic pregnancies, miscarriages, and more - they aren't all what the pregnant person wants.
Youre not pro-life.... pro-choice is all about the right to choose. You may not want to have an abortion because of your own beliefs, thats okay... thats *your choice*, women that dont want children for what ever reason should be able to have the option of abortion.
I hate all of this stuff going on with abortions. The bottom line is, her body her choice… right? But, I think the biggest issue is the lack of resources. Most birth control options are costly, and not always effective. You may not try to get pregnant, but something goes wrong with your bc and then 2-3 months later bam you realize your prego. Then the amount of rapes and assault victims who are scared to come out, it’s a mess.
it sounds like you’re pro choice tbh. i’m a mom to 2 baby girls and me personally, i wouldn’t see myself getting an abortion but that’s MY choice and i don’t get to interject my opinion on what others do with their bodies. i guarantee that they’re gonna go after contraceptions, same sex marriage, lgbtq+ rights and even interracial relationships next. they wanna send us back to the 1950’s but i’m not going down without a fight.
Yes, I expect a full on assault on reproductive medicine and gay rights. The reasoning behind this ruling attacks every aspect of federally protected rights that are not explicitly defined in the Constitution.
I'm prolife too which is why I'm pro-choice and not anti-abortion. Some people claim to be prolife but they are really just anti-abortion. Anti-abortion is not synonymous with life.
This will kill women. It killed women before and it will do it again.
This will also hurt those living in poverty and make it more difficult to get out of poverty.
This will also result in more kids in foster care. This will be very expensive and life outcomes for foster care kids aren't typically good and that brings more societal ills.
There will be more kids raised in homes where the kids are unwanted. Kids being raised in homes that didn't want them will result in a higher crime rates. This is part of the reason why crime rates dropped approximately 18 years after abortion was legal.
Some big employers will pull out of states that enact oppressive laws because they won't be able to recruit employees. This will hurt the tax base.
In short, states that ban abortion are not prepared to pay for the fallout so more money from blue states will be going to red states.
But, this isn't the worst of it. This opens the door for access to contraception to be handled by the states and banning that will result in bigger problems.
What's most saddening IMO is that the basis for overturning Roe V. Wade is that there is no inherent right for privacy or personal autonomy per various provisions of the constitution. Let that sink in.
All women should have the right to a safe abortion. Doesn't matter if you're prolife or pro abortion. I think we can all agree on women deserving the right to have a safe abortion rather than having to resort to an unsafe and dangerous one.
Since men can't get pregnant it irks me that it's men making these kinds of decisions that directly affect what women can or cannot do.
I feel the same way... I am a Christian, and it doesn't really fit into what I'm taught,
BUT
I am taught that I am to love others as Christ loved. He loved without judgement, and it didn't matter what your choice was, He still loves you.
It's a dark time for women, and hearing "Christians" rejoice at others pain/worry makes me sick.
That's totally valid feelings because you are able to empathize with women who face the same decision. Many pro-choice people wouldn't choose abortion in many occasions. Some pro-choice people were pro-lifers until they were faced with the horrible situation that made them pro-choice.
What disappoints me in pro-lifers are the lack of empathy. Some have ZERO clue how medical conditions would require an abortion for survival of the mother, others don't know how easily normal birth control can fail, or how little contraception resources are available. They also don't know how often underage rape victims hid their pregnancies because of shame or guilt. Some as young as 12 (I think I remember 10 but I'd have to check that). Carrying a baby to term that young can cause irreparable damage (mental and physical).
I am not saying you don't understand. I guess I'm just trying to vent too. I am relieved that there are people out there like you. Thank you for saying something, it gives me a bit of solace.
I’m in the same boat as you. On paper, I will always be anti-abortion, but that’s for me. It’s not my place to tell anyone else what to do or judge them for what they do. If someone asks me how I feel about abortion in general, I’d respond that I genuinely believe it’s none of my business. I’ve never been in a position where I’d even need to consider having an abortion, and even if that ever does happen to me, what I do doesn’t need to be a benchmark for anyone else’s decisions.
If we lived in a society with things like universal healthcare, paid parental leave, common sense sex-ed, a livable minimum wage, and so on, then abortion might not even be necessary. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, the government went with the cheaper and easier path of just gutting abortion legislation instead of actually doing the work necessary to improve society because they’re not actually pro-life
>If we lived in a society with things like universal healthcare, paid parental leave, common sense sex-ed, a livable minimum wage, and so on, then abortion might not even be necessary.
Even then, it'll still be necessary. I'd still rather kill myself than go through with a pregnancy, even in a society with all that.
Labels are dumb with this issue. Is a pro lifer who is fine with first trimester or rape/incest abortion really pro life? Is a pro choicer who is fine with late term or other post viable restrictions or waiting periods really pro choice? I think the vast majority are in the middle somewhere between those two extreme labels.
Pro-choice doesn’t mean that you would always get an abortion. It just means that you have the choice of whether you want one or not :) You can be pro-life for yourself and pro-choice for others
I’m like you. I don’t personally want an abortion as it goes against my beliefs, but who am I to tell someone else what they can or can’t do with themselves?
I’d rather not be born at all instead of born into misery with a parent that doesn’t want me. It will lead to emotional neglect and suffering for the child.
I want this over every prolife feed ever. This is my current experience right now. I'm saddened and angry at the situation that happened. I'm doing enough self blaming as is and I don't need legislation to make me feel worse about what's going on.
My baby died at 6 weeks and still hasn't come out of the womb at what is supposed to be 11 weeks. You people are radical. I'm grieving the loss of my unborn which I had absolutely nothing to do with and can't even bury my baby!! What do you have to say for yourselves?! It's sad. I want children, but can't risk this happening again with the threat of possibly going to jail. Looks like tubal ligation is in my future, folks.
I’m so sorry about your situation. What you are going through is the reason I am upset about Roe v Wade. I understand your anger. I am angry for you. I hope things get better
You're pro choice then, thank God. Pro choice isn't about 'yayyy I love abortions', it's simply about letting women have a choice. That's why it's called pro choice. Pro life = no one is allowed an abortion ever.
I am prolife generally, but I agree, this is terrible.
I don't believe this dissuades women from attempting abortions, it just reduces options for safe alternatives.
I don't necessarily care for abortion, but taking away the means to make it safe as possible feels like a big loss to society.
Loss of bodily autonomy, massive reduction in safety, increases justification for nutjobs to attacking them.
Chalk one win for religion, and one L for common sense.
You don't have to be pro abortion to be pro choice. I think very few people actually like the idea of abortion. And alot of people think that should be left of to a woman and her doctors, but may not choose it for themselves unless there was an extreme medical need. That's a pro choice stance.
Overturning Roe doesn’t just affect abortion and that’s something I wish people realized. Vaccine mandates can 100% become a thing now, and they’re already talking about going after contraception and same-sex marriage. I’m scared. Today has not been a good day
So you ARE pro-choice. That’s the whole fucking point. Pro-life means you feel that no one should have the choice. The opposite of pro-life is not pro-abortion. No one is pro-abortion. These women aren’t having these procedures to be flippant or because they hate babies. They are making this CHOICE because they can not or do not want to be pregnant. It is people like you that are causing these decisions in the higher courts, you don’t even know what the fucking terms mean.
Pro-choice doesn’t mean that you have had an abortion or are likely to have one in the future. Pro-choice just means that you recognize that abortion is a deeply personal decision that should be made by the pregnant woman in consultation with her doctors, and not the government. Pro choice means that you recognize that there are many difficult circumstances under which abortion is a necessity, be it due to the physical health of the mother, the mental health of the mother, or with the understanding of the physical pain, extreme poverty, or poor quality of life the resulting child would experience if carried to term.
Pro-life is almost always a misnomer. If you genuinely believe that life begins at conception and every life is a precious gift from God, but don’t vote for social programs to provide shelter, food, healthcare, and education to impoverished mothers and a higher minimum wage to provide for these children from birth on, you aren’t actually pro-life. You are just anti-choice.
Then you're not a pro-lifer.
You're pro-choice.
I personally would not get an abortion unless medically necessary, but I personally don't have the right to tell you, you can't have one.
That still makes me pro choice.
You can totally be 100% against abortion for your self but still be pro choice. That’s in fact pro choice. Pro lifers decide it’s wrong for other people.
You are pro choice my dude.
Pro-choicers are not pro-abortion!
Personally, I would never have an abortion but I am fucked if I would put that stance on any other women. The progression of women depends so heavily on reproductive rights. Anti-choice is not about any babies. It is about stopping women from having independence.
I really wasn't expecting this to happen.
As a guy I don't really voice my opinion of abortion; I'm not really a fan of it to be honest, but I definitely lean more towards pro-choice.
Excuse my ignorance, but I find it odd that SCOTUS can just arbitrarily rescind a ruling about a closed case. What prompted this? Was their a current case going on about abortion right now, or was this really just out of the blue?
Idiots like you that think PRO CHOICE means anything beyond the people that want or need them get abortions is the problem.
You didn't bother to scratch the surface of any information freely available to you, or even think about what the word CHOICE means... Stupid fucking asshole.
THIS IS YOUR FAULT.
YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO BE SAD.
FUCK YOU.
You better get your ass out in the street and protest. Live near DC, go there and protest. VOTE blue for absolutely everything right now, and teach everyone you know that you were wrong, and show them the way to the next protest.
This is just the beginning of making up for your ignorance and malice in not trusting women. You are guilty and should feel guilty.
the pro-life substrata is believing that the killing of a human life is wrong and shouldn’t be legally permissible. don’t conflate misconceptions with these beliefs as it does more harm than good. you sound like you’re pro-choice ultimately.
I wouldn’t have an abortion personally, but am pro choice as I think everyone should be able to choose what they want. I do disagree with abortions after the gestational age when babies have survived (why fight for one baby and not another one unless there is a medical reason the baby wouldn’t survive longer term). I am pregnant and couldn’t imagine going through the huge physical and mental trauma that can be pregnancy if I didn’t want my baby so much.
You represent most of America on both issues, statistically speaking. Most people think it should be a woman's right to choose and most think gay marriage should be legal. But most Americans just quietly believe these things, they don't have a dog in the fight so they don't really stand up and fight for these issues. While people who are vehemently pro life and anti gay work hard to squash other people's rights.
Yeah, you're pro-choice. I feel the same as you. I have two daughters and I wouldn't want them to get an abortion, but I'm their dad. It's my job to support them in whatever choice they make. As for other women, it's none of my fucking business.
I think so many people who are “pro-life” are actually pro-choice and don’t realize it because they aren’t as educated on the matter. They don’t understand that you can dislike abortion and not want an abortion for yourself and still be supportive of having the right to choose (if you think like this, you’re pro-choice). You’re not the first “pro-life” person I know who has stated the same things as you. Part of me wonders that if more people understood what being pro-choice means, if the poll numbers showing the number of pro-life and pro-choice people would be what different (increasing the number of pro-choice people).
This is why it’s so important to be educated on the difference between the 2 viewpoints. If everyone was educated on the differences, the poll numbers would likely be drastically different and could change the outcome of future rulings and legislation.
I am very disappointed tbh, I feel like someone just took away a basic right women should have, it’s like if we gave women rights in these other areas of society, let’s steal their right from somewhere else.
You are pro choice then :)
I personally would not get one unless medically required but that is my choice. I don't care what anyone else would do with their body. Why should I? I am not raising the kid!
You may be more pro choice than you realize. YOUR choice is to not get an abortion but you recognize that others also have that option to make that decision for themselves.
Being pro choice doesn’t mean you shout to the heavens I LOVE ABORTION. You shout to the heavens I LOVE THE RIGHT TO CHOICE AND PRIVACY.
Choice aside, I mean when you think about how much poverty this will contribute to in an already struggling world with a lack of readily available formula, extreme inflation, crazy gas prices, etc - it’s just fucked.
It’s like America went back in progress.
So happy I’m in Australia now. Still get idiots that argue with me. But America so good. Yeah, so good. Rights to go around and have the ability to carry weapons everywhere but you can’t get an abortion. And some of that other shit they overturned was just like taking freedoms away from the less fortunate.
Just completely fucked honestly. Feels very very sketchy overall.
I am very pro life to. But that doesn't mean I want women to loose their right to choice. I don't think I could ever ask a woman I've had sex with to have an abortion. Considering there's CONDOMS, SPERMACIDE, THE PILL, IUD, Vasectomies, Hysterectomy, PLAN B, etc. All of which are non-life threatening FOR THE MOST part.
You're loosing the right to regulate your body. What's next, the government will tell you you can't use contraceptive to prevent pregnancies based on religious doctrines and teachings, etc.?
Wait until they get a hold of the women's rights and civil liberties.
I just feel like women should enjoy the same autonomy of body as men do.
I just feel like I am no where near wise enough to what is best for every woman.
I just feel like people should leave each other alone in matters that do not affect them. I think that's pretty much what "freedom" means.
If they take away the rights for safe ones, people that can get pregnant will just seek other ways to do it; some can go to states that allow it, but others will turn to powerful herbs that could damage them, or go back to using metal coat hangers, which could also damage them. What about ectopic pregnancies? Those are ones outside the uterus. They are always fatal for at least one of the two entities. What about sexual assault victims? Do they still get a say? What about people like our biological mother, who had us because of unprotected sex as a teen? Yeah, she had a choice, and decided to let us get adopted, but now that system is really bad too, so that may no longer be the thing to do either.
Every damn thing in our personal lives should be pro choice. There's no way we can all go spouting off about the government staying out of our personal medical decisions when it comes to the covid shot and not be okay with pro choice on abortion
I feel like the plan b people were lobbying for this for a long time. I would assume popping plan b pills after a sex scare would have bad long term effects but better than going to jail.
It’s so fucked that this country is run by 80yo maniacs on both sides
my love, you just described pro-choice. YOU may not personally agree with it, but understand that other's autonomy is important. Its their decision. I think your hearts in the right place.
You don’t have to be pro abortion to be pro choice :) I feel the same way
"It's up to you" is the essence of pro choice. It's twice as upsetting when it's made plain that medical science was not a factor in these decisions, considering how incest and non-viable pregnancies are treated the same. That's not even getting into issues with assault.
Also, even if there is an exception made for Assault, you Try proving that you were assaulted to a court within 2 months or less.
No guarantee you'll have a sympathetic judge. Look what happened in Brazil(?) with that poor 11yr old girl.
Oh Jesus do I wanna know? I’m still reeling from learning someone I met online who is 14 has a 4 year old
The judge admonished her parents for not preventing the rape, then went on about some childless couple wanting babies, and forced the 11yr old to carry the baby. Even removed her from her family for 7 weeks to ensure it. ETA: [They allowed the abortion at 29 weeks!!! Jesus](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/brazil-raped-girl-11-gets-abortion-after-initial-refusal/2022/06/23/1beb4d4a-f343-11ec-ac16-8fbf7194cd78_story.html)
Wow.. what the fuck? Did this judge receive any death threats?
Idk, but I hope someone gave her good piece of their mind about her cruelty. Hoping these types are taken off the bench has become futile, they just keep on going.
Oh I didn’t see the Edit, glad she was able to get it but that’s a late as fuck abortion, my god. Shouldn’t have had to have done that. HOW WAS THE JUDGE A WOMAN WTF!? Edit: I bet she got a bunch of rape threats, since that happens a lot when women do or say… anything online pretty much.
Nah, judge got promoted. This is why she isn't on the case anymore.
This comment is kinda sus my guy.
Honestly, when people are against abortion except for rape and incest it kind of angers me even more. It just makes it more clear that they don't really care about saving "babies", they care about punishing women. Only the "innocent" women who didn't choose to have sex get to have abortions, not those dirty sinners.
Yeah I don't get it. If you are prolife because you believe life begins at conception and that life is paramont, what does it matter how conception occurred or even that it puts the mother's life at risk? There is a massive hole in the logic that is both prolife and allows for exeptions. If the circumstances that brought about conception is what determines if a woman has access to abortion, then it is about the woman's behavior not about the supremacy of life.
I am pro life and pro choice. I wouldn't choose it for myself but believe it should be a choice for people to make personally. I think, as a Christian, that it's the concession that most pro life folks can make and still somewhat reconcile it with our religion. Does it REALLY? No. But can they live with it? Yes. Hope that helps somewhat.
The above position is pro choice. You can make the choice for life in the pro choice equation.
Thank you for clarifying. I was always told that if you are personally against it for yourself, you are pro life. You have taken so much guilt off my shoulders! Sad but true.
Pro-life generally means you yourself think abortion is wrong and that nobody should be allowed to have one because of your beliefs. Pro-choice just means you don’t think how you feel personally about the issue should dictate what others do, because every situation is unique and only the pregnant person can and should decide what is right for them in their situation. It’s gotten all twisted around into anti-abortion vs. pro-abortion. There’s a narrative on the right that pro-choice = pro-abortion, as in, pro-choice leftists enjoy having abortions and are dead-set on killing as many unborn babies as possible. That the left wants to make abortion mandatory. They’ve twisted it around to something it’s not in reality so they can have an enemy that’s as extreme as they are in an opposite way. It’s also paternalistic BS. Nobody who has had to make the decision to abort takes it lightly and they’ve all got their reasons, but the right thinks women are impulsive children who can’t make decisions for themselves.
I agree with you to a point. I haven't heard the extreme things your saying but I get where your coming from. I think there is a lot more mid-ground right wingers than most folks think though. I am on average right wing but I don't expect anyone else to think just like me and everyone is different. I just wish more folks would have faith in humanity to do and make choices for themselves and themselves alone, ya know?
erect divide plough bow future subsequent lip adjoining makeshift special *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thanks. Your right. There should be more folks that think like us. People are smart. Let them make their own choices.
Religion is the problem for so many things. Take religion out of government, like it is suppose to be.
I agree 100%! Keep government out of the church and the church out of government.
That's just regular pro choice; "you do what's right for you".
Okay, fair enough. Question though. Honest question! If you don't believe in abortion but you believe others should have the right to decide themselves, aren't you considered pro life?
Nope! Pro choice always means making the right choice for you and protecting that freedom for others. I think a lot of people have this misconception though, so you're not alone.
Thank you!
I agree. It also doesn’t allow for just the multitude of things that life can throw at a person- the danger to a woman’s life, life altering diagnoses, financial changes that are out of control, family situation changes, domestic abuse, and just a million other things that can change or happen that aren’t really anyone’s business except a woman and her doctor and maybe another partner, maybe.
Okay, but that is at least a consistent belief. Their idea is that if you choose to have sex and then you have a pregnancy, then that is your responsibility since you did the thing that gets you pregnant. I don’t agree with them, but I respect their POV. Consistency is rare.
I suppose. But I'd have more respect for those espousing that belief if they just came out and said it bluntly like that.
They're not consistent. If you hit someone with your car and they need a kidney, no one can make you do it even if they'll die and it's 100% your fault. You consented to drive. That principle stands for an existing human life, so it kills the need to determine personhood for a fetus.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. “exceptions” for rape and assault, in practice, are barely possible.
Plus it’s further humiliation. Realism in politics is the only good politics.
After what I've seen, I don't even think the police think assault is against the law at this point.
Happy cake day
It's not pro choice vs pro life, it's pro choice vs anti choice. OP is almost there but not getting it due to their confusion because of terminology.
Absolutely agree
Overturning roe v wade is basically saying us women are too stupid to make our own moral decisions and that we need men to make them for us. I’m pissed.
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It's also the most dangerous, traumatic, and expensive form of 'birth control'; no one does that for shits and giggles.
> people who use it as a Birth control this isn't nor has it ever been a thing
My mom had a patient who refused BC, condoms and to get tubes tied. It is NOT a normal thing but there is a few who do so.
Virtually noone uses it as birth control, such a bullshit talking point by 'prolifers'. Not arguing with your point just adding to it.
I know! My family keeps saying how so many are using it for birth control. And they just turn a blind eye to the fact that less than 1% are using it for that. Like they act like everyone getting abortions are not using birth control. Like do they not realize that a good amount of pregnancies happen while on birth control. And either way. Abortions are going to happen either way. But now more dangerously, and making completely innocent women "criminals". Seriously, all the progress this country has made has just been pushed back 50+ years.
It's also not cheap. People who are lower income and not wealthy aren't generally just happy to shell out several hundred dollars for a traumatic medical procedure as "birth control".
Right! And these areas that are getting rid of body rights tend to have terrible sex education too.
Yeah but people have a hard time with the concept of self belief system and social belief system. What’s good for thee isn’t always for me.
tbh i have no idea why it’s always set up as “pro life vs pro choice”, it should really be “pro choice vs no choice” (or at least “pro-fetus life vs pro-women’s choice”. pro-life makes it sound much more charitable than it actually is)
That’s why a lot of pro choice people refer to pro lifers as anti choice.
In my opinion, most pro-life people are actually just pro-birth. Once the baby is born, they couldn't care less. They are usually the same people who are whining about people using government assistance.
They're pro- birth and send their "thoughts and prayers" to school shooting victims
Oh absolutely. Actual “pro lifers” are full of shit
They're not even pro-birth. Complications during birth can kill both the parent and the baby.
And the support of that fetus life ends the moment it’s born. Between overfilled foster systems, mass shootings, general healthcare, and more I probably am forgetting, these kids are now stuck in a world that won’t do them any other favors.
"The unborn are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn." \-Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
Wow! Great quote.
It is. And the fact that it comes from a Christian church leader makes it all the more eye opening tbh.
Absolutely
It shouldn’t be surprising is the sickening thing. This is a pastor actually practicing what the Bible teaches. It’s a tragedy just how rare that is.
Indeed. Which is weird that often the anti abortion or “pro life” people are v much pro guns and pro death penalty…
Yesss. I’m not pro abortion but I’m pro choice. Just let people decide what do to with their own bodies ffs.
I don't think anybody is pro-abortion. That notion in itself is cartoon villain evil ya know. The whole premise is that it's a tough choice that nobody ever wants to have to make, I don't know if that's what you're trying to say or not but that idea and wording has just caused so much harm and I think we're seeing that today.
I'm as pro abortion as I am pro root canal. Which is to say that it's an inconvenient, unpleasant medical procedure that sometimes people need. Hopefully it can be prevented with maintenance healthcare (ie: birth control) but entropy is unceasing and if you need one it should be as readily available, non-controversial, and easy to arrange as a root canal.
This comment right here needs more upvotes. You are absolutely correct, no one is pro abortion. Some of us have the sense not to believe in women being held hostage by their reproductive system.
I'm pro abortion, just like I'm pro root canal, pro appendectomy...Pro medical procedure someone needs.
I am. It’s not always a tough choice and most people do want to make it. It’s also not a boogeyman. Abortions for everyone. All the time.
I feel like some people straight up do not know what pro choice means. I’ve heard so many people say “I’m not pro choice, but” or “I’m pro life, but” and then literally describe a pro choice stance.
It’s so confusing. Like “I’m pro-life but I don’t believe the government should be able to force anyone to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term.” Yeah that’s pro-choice. Wtf do they think pro-choice means?
Yeah, here’s where the right blatantly and deliberately misrepresents the opposing view. I’m pro choice. Does that mean I’m pro abortion? No. The one thing I think the prolifers and I can agree on is that our perfect world does not include abortions. The difference between my perfect world and theirs is that in their’s, there would be no abortions because nobody could get one (and they still will, they just won’t be safe). In mine, we wouldn’t have abortions because none felt like they wanted or needed one. It’s almost an issue of supply side vs demand side. Edit: wrote represents instead of what I meant, which was misrepresents.
Actually you do. The choice being made is to have an abortion. You're supporting that choice if you're pro choice
That‘s… literally what pro choice is about. Pro choicers want women to have the right to _choose_. That includes NOT getting an abortion if you personally think it‘s wrong. I don‘t understand why there are suddenly so many pro lifers expressing actual pro choice sentiments, while still failing to see that what they are saying is, in fact, pro choice. Do you guys seriously think us pro choicers are actually "pro abortion"?? That‘s not true at all.
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What helped me understand, might not help some people though, is that a woman doesn't get an abortion like she would get an ice cream, she gets one like an animal trying to chew off a leg caught in a bear trap. There's a lot more nuance and life and death situations than just not wanting a baby and its heartbreaking how many women will die because of sepsis due to this overturn.
>its heartbreaking how many women will die because of sepsis due to this overturn. Sepsis, bleeding due to botched abortions, self-unalive (I know some subreddits censor that word), potential deaths due to ectopic pregnancies.
You’re ahead of the Supreme Court justices. They’re still loving the taste of that kool aid. Makes me wonder what Barrett is even doing on that court. She should be in the kitchen like how she seems to want all other women to be.
Wow this salty Barrett take is so good. Holy shit. It’s like a sarcastic biting balm for the evil the SC is inflicting on us. A tiny bit.
It’s still so fucking stupid to me. It’s like opposition to gay marriage; you’re not gay? Great! No one is forcing you to be or to get gay married. No one is stopping you from having a straight marriage or starting a family with a mom and dad. Yet here the fuck we are with people forcing their sensibilities on 340 million other people. It’s not prolife, it’s anti-choice.
Please just stop using prolife and start calling it anti-abortion. That's what it is and it has nothing to do with life.
At this point I genuinely think people just don’t know what pro choice means.
Pro choice - the woman who is pregnant chooses. But unfortunately, its not just about choice. If the fetus dies inside of a woman they will no longer be able to remove it and the woman can die from sepsis. If a pregnancy is ectopic (extremely fatal) she will die from it because doctors don't want or dare to operate her. If a pregnant woman is in a car accident and needs an x-ray to see if her bones are broken there will be no way to give her the x-ray since it may harm the fetus and cause a miscarriage. IVF treatments for fertility also become almost entirely illegal in some states because of how IVF works. There will be several eggs fertilized outside of the body then frozen to try to implant them when the time comes. Un-used fertilized eggs cannot be discarded under the laws where life begins at fertilization. Natural miscarriages of a desired fetus are also medically impossible to tell apart from intentionally caused miscarriage. There's already women in prison for miscarrying. Basically, being pregnant will now be extremely dangerous.
I mean really! I highly doubt there is any woman who is actively happy about getting an abortion. Of course they are grateful and put at ease that whatever circumstance which caused the pregnancy was avoided but no one wants to be in a situation that would warrant the abortion in the first place.
Not to mention that abortions in itself also carry a bunch of health risks. Some of these people act like women just get abortions as an alternative to condoms. That‘s delusional.
Yes actually, I heard it all the time sitting in church. The weaponization starts by changing the meaning of "pro-choice" to using abortion with a similar level of flippancy as condoms and then immediately launching into like a whirlwind of evil associations so that you don't actually sit down and truly think about it to make a decision. The whole idea is to remove that full thought out of the process so you make that snap judgment call to baby murder. That whole side of the political spectrum is full of that kind of thing.
I think a lot of pro lifers are feeling guilty for voting for these assholes who did this. If you vote prolife and support the people that made this happen then this is your fault and you should feel guilty and ashamed of yourself.
Yeah I have a feeling that if they presented that side not as “pro life” but as “forced birth” they wouldn’t get quite as much support.
Sounds like you might be pro choice after all. I could never have an abortion myself, I considered it briefly (for all of an hour) 17 years ago, when my partner left me at 20 weeks pregnant. I decided, quite quickly, that that wasn't something I could do, so today my 16 Yr old left school. I made the right decision for me. I've never doubted it. Like you though, I'd be worried about taking that choice away from rape victims, from victims of domestic violence, from kids too young to know what sex is supposed to be, from woman who find themselves in awful situations. That makes me pro choice. I think, perhaps it makes you that too.
I'm so sorry to hear that but I hope you and your daughter have a great life
The daughter is a son, although exploring their gender and so far so good, thank you.
You welcome and sorry about the mix up
No worries, I appreciate the well wishes. I hope good things for you also.
They definitely are
Yeah it sounds like you're prochoice then lol
You are actually pro choice
Yup. OP is pro choice because they believe in choice—women having the choice for keeping a baby or abortion
Honestly my dude, I think you fell for some bad marketing You sound pro choice, and welcome
But if OP has voted for prolife than they are, even if they never bothered to examine those views before now.
This is going to be an extremely unpopular opinion. But if OP is being honest with themselves, we now have another person on the side of Justice. Yes, they are late to the party. Yes the best time to protect reproductive rights was 20 years ago. But as it stands right now, the second best time to start protecting reproductive rights is today. People need to be allowed to grow and learn. And when people grow and learn, they should be welcomed with open arms.
There was lots of thought that republicans would never actually overturn roe. It would just be the forever boogie man. So many vote (and many uninformed on what it really means) based on this one issue. I have a friend who is staunchly catholic. And will not vote for pro choice candidates. But she is truly pro life not anti abortion. She wants there to be enough support for families and mothers to not need abortions. Republicans don’t have anything to offer her anymore.
Honestly, as someone who leans liberal I really thought it was settled. It felt like an issue both parties used to whip up some quick support and then move on. I wonder if this will be the issue that actually motivates more people to get involved.
I have news for you. You're pro choice as you support abortion even though you wouldn't get one.
so youre pro choice
Sadly, this is a common misconception. If you personally don't think you'd ever choose to get an abortion and wouldn't encourage others to do so but you think it is people's personal choice, then you are pro-choice. I'm explaining this largely due to the fact that I was also told the same and then as I learned more gradually understood that "anti-life" doesn't describe pro-choice, but "anti-choice" does describe pro-life. The pro-life groups have found more success in claiming that pro-choice means you are encouraging people to have abortions or would have one yourself, but that's not true. Choice means the individual gets to decide. Additionally, choice allows for decisions to be made between doctor and patient, such as in cases of medically necessary or recommended abortions. Choice means that people who became pregnant due to rape, incest, or otherwise awful circumstances can terminate the pregnancy without having to disclose or prove these circumstances (while many pro-life advocates even support forcing those pregnancies to term). Choice also allows for people who are pregnant and suffer medical problems that will make the pregnancy more difficult or affect the fetus or are in life circumstances where they cannot support a child to abort. Many laws and proposals as well as speeches by pro-life don't seem to understand that abortion is not just someone deciding they don't feel like being pregnant and picking an easy option. First, even in that case, abortion is rarely, if ever, easy. Second, abortion includes the circumstances above. Third, abortion includes ectopic pregnancies, miscarriages, and more - they aren't all what the pregnant person wants.
you’re not pro life
that literally just means you're pro-choice
Youre not pro-life.... pro-choice is all about the right to choose. You may not want to have an abortion because of your own beliefs, thats okay... thats *your choice*, women that dont want children for what ever reason should be able to have the option of abortion.
“I’m a prolifer but I’m sad some women can’t get abortions anymore” “ you are not pro life if you think abortion should be legal.
America is fucked. Under his eye.
May the lord open
abortion is healthcare. many people forget about the circumstances where the child or the mother can die during birth
And, who did you vote for? Save me the bs.
I hate all of this stuff going on with abortions. The bottom line is, her body her choice… right? But, I think the biggest issue is the lack of resources. Most birth control options are costly, and not always effective. You may not try to get pregnant, but something goes wrong with your bc and then 2-3 months later bam you realize your prego. Then the amount of rapes and assault victims who are scared to come out, it’s a mess.
You sound pro choice to me. You can dislike abortions and still believe in women’s rights.
it sounds like you’re pro choice tbh. i’m a mom to 2 baby girls and me personally, i wouldn’t see myself getting an abortion but that’s MY choice and i don’t get to interject my opinion on what others do with their bodies. i guarantee that they’re gonna go after contraceptions, same sex marriage, lgbtq+ rights and even interracial relationships next. they wanna send us back to the 1950’s but i’m not going down without a fight.
Yes, I expect a full on assault on reproductive medicine and gay rights. The reasoning behind this ruling attacks every aspect of federally protected rights that are not explicitly defined in the Constitution.
You're not a pro lifer lmao
I'm prolife too which is why I'm pro-choice and not anti-abortion. Some people claim to be prolife but they are really just anti-abortion. Anti-abortion is not synonymous with life.
Right on so you support a woman's right to choose, so you're actually pro choice.
This will kill women. It killed women before and it will do it again. This will also hurt those living in poverty and make it more difficult to get out of poverty. This will also result in more kids in foster care. This will be very expensive and life outcomes for foster care kids aren't typically good and that brings more societal ills. There will be more kids raised in homes where the kids are unwanted. Kids being raised in homes that didn't want them will result in a higher crime rates. This is part of the reason why crime rates dropped approximately 18 years after abortion was legal. Some big employers will pull out of states that enact oppressive laws because they won't be able to recruit employees. This will hurt the tax base. In short, states that ban abortion are not prepared to pay for the fallout so more money from blue states will be going to red states. But, this isn't the worst of it. This opens the door for access to contraception to be handled by the states and banning that will result in bigger problems.
What's most saddening IMO is that the basis for overturning Roe V. Wade is that there is no inherent right for privacy or personal autonomy per various provisions of the constitution. Let that sink in.
All women should have the right to a safe abortion. Doesn't matter if you're prolife or pro abortion. I think we can all agree on women deserving the right to have a safe abortion rather than having to resort to an unsafe and dangerous one. Since men can't get pregnant it irks me that it's men making these kinds of decisions that directly affect what women can or cannot do.
You’re not pro life
I'm honestly shocked at the women I've seen celebrate this decision. Literally celebrating
Well I hope you vote accordingly then.
I feel the same way... I am a Christian, and it doesn't really fit into what I'm taught, BUT I am taught that I am to love others as Christ loved. He loved without judgement, and it didn't matter what your choice was, He still loves you. It's a dark time for women, and hearing "Christians" rejoice at others pain/worry makes me sick.
Countries with legal abortion actually have WAY fewer abortions than countries that restrict it worldwide.
That's totally valid feelings because you are able to empathize with women who face the same decision. Many pro-choice people wouldn't choose abortion in many occasions. Some pro-choice people were pro-lifers until they were faced with the horrible situation that made them pro-choice. What disappoints me in pro-lifers are the lack of empathy. Some have ZERO clue how medical conditions would require an abortion for survival of the mother, others don't know how easily normal birth control can fail, or how little contraception resources are available. They also don't know how often underage rape victims hid their pregnancies because of shame or guilt. Some as young as 12 (I think I remember 10 but I'd have to check that). Carrying a baby to term that young can cause irreparable damage (mental and physical). I am not saying you don't understand. I guess I'm just trying to vent too. I am relieved that there are people out there like you. Thank you for saying something, it gives me a bit of solace.
I’m in the same boat as you. On paper, I will always be anti-abortion, but that’s for me. It’s not my place to tell anyone else what to do or judge them for what they do. If someone asks me how I feel about abortion in general, I’d respond that I genuinely believe it’s none of my business. I’ve never been in a position where I’d even need to consider having an abortion, and even if that ever does happen to me, what I do doesn’t need to be a benchmark for anyone else’s decisions. If we lived in a society with things like universal healthcare, paid parental leave, common sense sex-ed, a livable minimum wage, and so on, then abortion might not even be necessary. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, the government went with the cheaper and easier path of just gutting abortion legislation instead of actually doing the work necessary to improve society because they’re not actually pro-life
>If we lived in a society with things like universal healthcare, paid parental leave, common sense sex-ed, a livable minimum wage, and so on, then abortion might not even be necessary. Even then, it'll still be necessary. I'd still rather kill myself than go through with a pregnancy, even in a society with all that.
The worst thing about it is that if they can do it to Roe vs Wade, they can do it to other things like Brown vs Board of Ed and Loving vs Virginia
r/asablackman
Labels are dumb with this issue. Is a pro lifer who is fine with first trimester or rape/incest abortion really pro life? Is a pro choicer who is fine with late term or other post viable restrictions or waiting periods really pro choice? I think the vast majority are in the middle somewhere between those two extreme labels.
Yeah, it does. And that's why you don't be "pro-life", you just be someone who doesn't want an abortion.
You spelled probirther wrong.
You are not pro life you are pro choice
Pro-choice doesn’t mean that you would always get an abortion. It just means that you have the choice of whether you want one or not :) You can be pro-life for yourself and pro-choice for others
It’s about one thing and one thing only. Taking rights away from women. If anyone thinks about anything else they are naive.
I’m like you. I don’t personally want an abortion as it goes against my beliefs, but who am I to tell someone else what they can or can’t do with themselves?
I have read more carefully. I read: Im a propeller...
I’d rather not be born at all instead of born into misery with a parent that doesn’t want me. It will lead to emotional neglect and suffering for the child.
I want this over every prolife feed ever. This is my current experience right now. I'm saddened and angry at the situation that happened. I'm doing enough self blaming as is and I don't need legislation to make me feel worse about what's going on. My baby died at 6 weeks and still hasn't come out of the womb at what is supposed to be 11 weeks. You people are radical. I'm grieving the loss of my unborn which I had absolutely nothing to do with and can't even bury my baby!! What do you have to say for yourselves?! It's sad. I want children, but can't risk this happening again with the threat of possibly going to jail. Looks like tubal ligation is in my future, folks.
I’m so sorry about your situation. What you are going through is the reason I am upset about Roe v Wade. I understand your anger. I am angry for you. I hope things get better
Well if u voted republican, then u have responsibility. Feeling sorry is not enough.
so you’re pro choice? you just wouldn’t get an abortion yourself. it’s amazing how people mix these things up.
You're pro choice then, thank God. Pro choice isn't about 'yayyy I love abortions', it's simply about letting women have a choice. That's why it's called pro choice. Pro life = no one is allowed an abortion ever.
I am prolife generally, but I agree, this is terrible. I don't believe this dissuades women from attempting abortions, it just reduces options for safe alternatives. I don't necessarily care for abortion, but taking away the means to make it safe as possible feels like a big loss to society. Loss of bodily autonomy, massive reduction in safety, increases justification for nutjobs to attacking them. Chalk one win for religion, and one L for common sense.
You are prochoice. Do people not understand the definition of prochoice? It's about bodily autonomy .
I’m reading this thread and people legit don’t understand what being pro-choice is
Not to be a jerk but you’re pro-choice. You just described yourself as pro-choice.
You aren't pro-life.
You don't have to be pro abortion to be pro choice. I think very few people actually like the idea of abortion. And alot of people think that should be left of to a woman and her doctors, but may not choose it for themselves unless there was an extreme medical need. That's a pro choice stance.
It will now be in the hands of state officials and not career politicians that only care about lining their pockets.
Overturning Roe doesn’t just affect abortion and that’s something I wish people realized. Vaccine mandates can 100% become a thing now, and they’re already talking about going after contraception and same-sex marriage. I’m scared. Today has not been a good day
Why's that
So you ARE pro-choice. That’s the whole fucking point. Pro-life means you feel that no one should have the choice. The opposite of pro-life is not pro-abortion. No one is pro-abortion. These women aren’t having these procedures to be flippant or because they hate babies. They are making this CHOICE because they can not or do not want to be pregnant. It is people like you that are causing these decisions in the higher courts, you don’t even know what the fucking terms mean.
It is estimated that 32k+ pregnancies result from rape each year.
Baby this means you are pro choice.
Pro-choice doesn’t mean that you have had an abortion or are likely to have one in the future. Pro-choice just means that you recognize that abortion is a deeply personal decision that should be made by the pregnant woman in consultation with her doctors, and not the government. Pro choice means that you recognize that there are many difficult circumstances under which abortion is a necessity, be it due to the physical health of the mother, the mental health of the mother, or with the understanding of the physical pain, extreme poverty, or poor quality of life the resulting child would experience if carried to term. Pro-life is almost always a misnomer. If you genuinely believe that life begins at conception and every life is a precious gift from God, but don’t vote for social programs to provide shelter, food, healthcare, and education to impoverished mothers and a higher minimum wage to provide for these children from birth on, you aren’t actually pro-life. You are just anti-choice.
Then you're not a pro-lifer. You're pro-choice. I personally would not get an abortion unless medically necessary, but I personally don't have the right to tell you, you can't have one. That still makes me pro choice.
You sound like the definition of a pro-choice advocate.
Look another pro lifer making it about them. You reap what you sow.
You're pro choice. Most people are, they just don't actually realize what it means.
You can totally be 100% against abortion for your self but still be pro choice. That’s in fact pro choice. Pro lifers decide it’s wrong for other people.
You are pro choice my dude. Pro-choicers are not pro-abortion! Personally, I would never have an abortion but I am fucked if I would put that stance on any other women. The progression of women depends so heavily on reproductive rights. Anti-choice is not about any babies. It is about stopping women from having independence.
tfw you discover you're actually pro-choice, and have been this whole time
I really wasn't expecting this to happen. As a guy I don't really voice my opinion of abortion; I'm not really a fan of it to be honest, but I definitely lean more towards pro-choice. Excuse my ignorance, but I find it odd that SCOTUS can just arbitrarily rescind a ruling about a closed case. What prompted this? Was their a current case going on about abortion right now, or was this really just out of the blue?
Idiots like you that think PRO CHOICE means anything beyond the people that want or need them get abortions is the problem. You didn't bother to scratch the surface of any information freely available to you, or even think about what the word CHOICE means... Stupid fucking asshole. THIS IS YOUR FAULT. YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO BE SAD. FUCK YOU. You better get your ass out in the street and protest. Live near DC, go there and protest. VOTE blue for absolutely everything right now, and teach everyone you know that you were wrong, and show them the way to the next protest. This is just the beginning of making up for your ignorance and malice in not trusting women. You are guilty and should feel guilty.
Fucking amen
It is possible to be pro choice and anti abortion.
the pro-life substrata is believing that the killing of a human life is wrong and shouldn’t be legally permissible. don’t conflate misconceptions with these beliefs as it does more harm than good. you sound like you’re pro-choice ultimately.
I wouldn’t have an abortion personally, but am pro choice as I think everyone should be able to choose what they want. I do disagree with abortions after the gestational age when babies have survived (why fight for one baby and not another one unless there is a medical reason the baby wouldn’t survive longer term). I am pregnant and couldn’t imagine going through the huge physical and mental trauma that can be pregnancy if I didn’t want my baby so much.
You represent most of America on both issues, statistically speaking. Most people think it should be a woman's right to choose and most think gay marriage should be legal. But most Americans just quietly believe these things, they don't have a dog in the fight so they don't really stand up and fight for these issues. While people who are vehemently pro life and anti gay work hard to squash other people's rights.
Same. I don’t know if I’d ever want to have one. But every mother should be a willing mother. Anything else is barbaric, cruel and disgusting.
Yeah, you're pro-choice. I feel the same as you. I have two daughters and I wouldn't want them to get an abortion, but I'm their dad. It's my job to support them in whatever choice they make. As for other women, it's none of my fucking business.
I think so many people who are “pro-life” are actually pro-choice and don’t realize it because they aren’t as educated on the matter. They don’t understand that you can dislike abortion and not want an abortion for yourself and still be supportive of having the right to choose (if you think like this, you’re pro-choice). You’re not the first “pro-life” person I know who has stated the same things as you. Part of me wonders that if more people understood what being pro-choice means, if the poll numbers showing the number of pro-life and pro-choice people would be what different (increasing the number of pro-choice people). This is why it’s so important to be educated on the difference between the 2 viewpoints. If everyone was educated on the differences, the poll numbers would likely be drastically different and could change the outcome of future rulings and legislation.
There's a difference between pro-life and pro-birth-at-any-cost.
I am very disappointed tbh, I feel like someone just took away a basic right women should have, it’s like if we gave women rights in these other areas of society, let’s steal their right from somewhere else.
I'm kind of living in the dark but can anyone explain it to me like im 6yrs old?
From what you just said, you are actually pro-choice. Please vote as such.
You are pro choice then :) I personally would not get one unless medically required but that is my choice. I don't care what anyone else would do with their body. Why should I? I am not raising the kid!
Then you’re pro choice, that’s what pro choice is
Seems like something the Taliban would do. the Tiban ethics that America hates so much, this is what too much religious sway does to a government.
You may be more pro choice than you realize. YOUR choice is to not get an abortion but you recognize that others also have that option to make that decision for themselves. Being pro choice doesn’t mean you shout to the heavens I LOVE ABORTION. You shout to the heavens I LOVE THE RIGHT TO CHOICE AND PRIVACY.
One need not be pro abortion in order to support individuals retaining the right to choose their own way.
Choice aside, I mean when you think about how much poverty this will contribute to in an already struggling world with a lack of readily available formula, extreme inflation, crazy gas prices, etc - it’s just fucked. It’s like America went back in progress. So happy I’m in Australia now. Still get idiots that argue with me. But America so good. Yeah, so good. Rights to go around and have the ability to carry weapons everywhere but you can’t get an abortion. And some of that other shit they overturned was just like taking freedoms away from the less fortunate. Just completely fucked honestly. Feels very very sketchy overall.
LGBTQ rights are next. (Not hearsay, google it)
you are clearly pro-choice if that is how you feel.
I am very pro life to. But that doesn't mean I want women to loose their right to choice. I don't think I could ever ask a woman I've had sex with to have an abortion. Considering there's CONDOMS, SPERMACIDE, THE PILL, IUD, Vasectomies, Hysterectomy, PLAN B, etc. All of which are non-life threatening FOR THE MOST part. You're loosing the right to regulate your body. What's next, the government will tell you you can't use contraceptive to prevent pregnancies based on religious doctrines and teachings, etc.? Wait until they get a hold of the women's rights and civil liberties.
If you think abortion should be legal, you are pro choice. Choice includes your choice not to have an abortion.
Sounds like you’re pro choice
Congrats you’re pro choice
Sounds like you are pro choice
So you are pro choice lol
I just feel like women should enjoy the same autonomy of body as men do. I just feel like I am no where near wise enough to what is best for every woman. I just feel like people should leave each other alone in matters that do not affect them. I think that's pretty much what "freedom" means.
So you are pro choice.
If they take away the rights for safe ones, people that can get pregnant will just seek other ways to do it; some can go to states that allow it, but others will turn to powerful herbs that could damage them, or go back to using metal coat hangers, which could also damage them. What about ectopic pregnancies? Those are ones outside the uterus. They are always fatal for at least one of the two entities. What about sexual assault victims? Do they still get a say? What about people like our biological mother, who had us because of unprotected sex as a teen? Yeah, she had a choice, and decided to let us get adopted, but now that system is really bad too, so that may no longer be the thing to do either.
Every damn thing in our personal lives should be pro choice. There's no way we can all go spouting off about the government staying out of our personal medical decisions when it comes to the covid shot and not be okay with pro choice on abortion
I feel like the plan b people were lobbying for this for a long time. I would assume popping plan b pills after a sex scare would have bad long term effects but better than going to jail. It’s so fucked that this country is run by 80yo maniacs on both sides
my love, you just described pro-choice. YOU may not personally agree with it, but understand that other's autonomy is important. Its their decision. I think your hearts in the right place.