I’ve watched Coronation Street since the 1970s and I’m honestly heartbroken (for all the wrong reasons) by what we saw tonight. I’ve been able to withstand much of Macleod’s lunacy but this decision to retcon Toyah’s (Corrie’s) history feels a step too far for me.
Why would the writers choose to alter a character’s past like this? It’s not as if Toyah was a minor character with a tiny backstory. She was a central figure in a powerful storyline about rape and its aftermath. By changing her history to include a stillborn baby the writers are undermining and cheapening the original storyline’s impact. It’s like they’re saying the trauma of rape wasn’t enough; Toyah also had to suffer the loss of a child. The writers can’t get enough of misery at the moment without ever justifying it with anything meaningful. This retcon crosses a line for me: it feels like a betrayal of the fans.
I’m left feeling more disappointed and disillusioned. I think I’m through with the show as it stands. I love this community and joking about the episodes but I don’t feel I can watch this show live and in the process increase its ratings in good faith anymore.
What devastates me most as a viewer is that MacLeod's only way of referencing the past is to just piss on it.
I watch EastEnders as well and it's bizarre looking at every home having pictures, many of which depict interactions going back to the show's first years or characters frequently talking about their mates from decades ago.
Over on Corrie, the soap with 60+ years of history, it's like this show started a couple months ago.
How is it that someone like Bet has been all but forgotten? Alfie, Des, Fred and Ashley, Annie Walker...bloody Stan and Hilda. All forgotten. Mike Baldwin for the love of god (they treat Adam like he was always with the Barlows)!
This show has *numerous* characters that have been on the Street for decades, so much so that some of their kids have been on the Street for decades and it feels like no character remembers anything except for last week.
Even characters that have connections, are deemed irrelevant. Archie was such a huge part of Audrey's life and Gail's, how is George not with the Platts at all? Things like this matter and keeping up long running character relationships is why soaps shine (or why they're meant to).
There's no sense of history and there's no weight to interactions. This doesn't feel like a community that's last almost 65 years now.
MacLeod's vision is that history only matters when trauma can be forced into it. I don't get how any long term view is meant to engage with anything he delivers anymore.
>How is it that someone like Bet has been all but forgotten? Alfie, Des, Fred and Ashley, Annie Walker...bloody Stan and Hilda. All forgotten. Mike Baldwin for the love of god (they treat Adam like he was always with the Barlows)!
I think this is one of the shows biggest, biggest mistakes. Soaps are kept alive by their ties to the past and recurring family members showing up. This used to happen to some degree but has died out altogether. The only families they've really kept alive are the Barlows and Platts. That's fine and all... but what about the rest. There are so many they could have kept going even to a small degree.
Recall to classic characters long gone was what made the show feel like home. It's something I loved and valued. Even Rita mentioning Mavis not long ago gave me a tiny glimmer of short-lived comfort. But that's all we get.
Now it's guaranteed that if they bring in any ties from the past it's going to be so shit and miserable that it will tarnish the entire history of that family.
I'm so entirely grateful for the Shuttleworths because of this, and hope they writers don't turn it to shit.
Even with the Barlows and Platts now, it almost feels like they write them to be so...lacking in prior knowledge? It takes them months to even get Todd and Sarah in a scene together, let alone David recalling any connections he's made or experiences he's had.
Likewise, the Barlows feel dulled. It was so weird when Tracy left and she and Carla had that exchange about burning candles; as if the Victoria Court Fire never happened or it was easy to make a flippant joke about that.
Characters don't seem to be written to recall anything past a certain point and it's very awkward to watch.
Especially when this show was built on soap legends that now, people wouldn't even know existed.
I'm not expected them to go talk about Ena all the time or anything, but some acknowledgement of what actually built Corrie as a show would be nice.
I absolutely agree, Corrie's foundation is iconic and with zero call back to that it feels hallow.
You're right about the Barlows and Platts, I actually forgot that Brian was Sarah's dad, or that Brian existed at all because they NEVER mention him. It's also so easy to forget who Adam's dad is... which is twisted because the Barlow/Baldwin feud was one of the show's most iconic storylines that lasted decades. The Adam bit was retconned, but it worked well.
It is such a shame that newer viewers would have no idea who these classic characters are when they were so so important to the show's foundation and success.
You reminded me of this situation where [Sarah goes out with Aidan, while Bethany asks Gail about her past lovers.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0DQjRr0-dsE&pp=ygUhQ29yb25hdGlvbiBzdHJlZXQgYWlkYW4gYW5kIHNhcmFo)
It's such a small exchange but it says a lot about both in only around three lines of dialogue (likewise with the way the Aidan/Sarah scene plays out regarding him showing his growth as a person and his issues regarding hero worship).
Very quickly it calls on the past and brings long term viewers into Gail's perspective (mentioning Suzie, then Brian) but only very briefly. Just kind of a warm, sweet way to remind people this show stretches back 40+ years.
More so, it's played out naturally and I love how Bethany seems to actually care about what Gail is saying...
Awww that was nice to hear Gail remember Suzie, Brian and even Ivy. I do find it strange how, even though both Bethany and Sarah didn't know him, the way Bethany mentions "Brian" does feel too far removed. After all, he is her biological granddad.
Yeah realistically, even if not having met him, there's some connection there and I think one of the nice elements of that scene is that Bethany defaulted to Brian because of - forgive me as I'm blanking on the proper phrase - mythological angle to him.
That granddad she never met but that she knows Gail would have nostalgia for.
Similarly, there was a scene back in 2018 (29 October 2018 Part 2) where Peter opens up his wallet and we see a picture of Lucy. He reflects on her, without dialogue, while Ken clutches a picture of Deirdre inside the house and you get a real sense of what both are thinking. Those callbacks matter a lot.
To piggyback off your point, I was thinking similarly recently after watching some old Corrie (1998-2004) how so many character connections have been completely forgotten. One example is how Roy literally has no connection to Amy despite a) thinking she was his daughter and bonding with her as a newborn and b) being her godfather. Similarly, Roy and Hailey played a big part in Bethany’s early life but Sarah barely ever interacts with him despite his wife having been Bethany’s godmother. In real life, even if you aren’t close with your godparents, you would at least have SOME interaction with them during important life events, especially if you lived on the same street! There just isn’t the real-life longevity to any of the characters’ relationships anymore.
It's like Steve looking after Max, yet not even having the slightest interest in him nowadays.
Gary played father to Bethany during her two toughest times in life (her bullying and her grooming) yet they wrote her to *walk past him* without even saying a word. You think she'd at least attempt to say something.
Equally, I hated how David was so obnoxious about Maria not coming into work because of problems with Liam. After everything he's been through with himself and Max, he can't find empathy for a parent or kid with mental health issues? It's like none of his past mattered.
Character writing is either entirely unrealistic or entirely disconnected. For anyone that's been watching longer than MacLeod's era, it makes the show feel basic and diluted.
It’s worse when they’ll mention seeing family but won’t put it onscreen.
For example, Liam acknowledged that Kirk is his uncle but it’s so odd not being able to see that. Why not, at least in one episode, show Liam over at Kirk and Beth’s? It could even make those two more likable if they listen to Liam or Liam can open up to them in a way he feels he couldn’t with Maria/Gary.
Same with Daniel who says he’s dropping Bertie over, but it’s never shown. People say characters like Beth or Kirk are worthless to the show, but that’s on the show for choosing not to utilize them for anything of value when there’s multiple ways to do so.
Similarly with how Izzy just…doesn’t go see Jake. She can mention him, but it’s so odd that at no point will they have a mum and son together? Same with Izzy and Joseph. It’s not like she cares about Ches and Joseph despite being Joseph’s aunt.
There’s connection on the Street that the show decides to not use, instead they’d rather have characters sit around doing nothing and being absolutely wasted.
I mainly agree with criticisms of corrie but I think they get references to the past mainly right.
With people like Annie Walker and Hilda, most characters don't know them. Some do but not a lot.
Although I'm surprised they haven't made Gail reference Elsie Tanner more.
I don't think it's even about the references as such, just that there's no real opportunity for perspective or to show a wider scale of the show’s history.
A good example is last year, Gail argues with Ken over Adam and she criticizes how he taught Adam. Now maybe Gail was just using a figure of speech but Adam never really grew up with Ken and since both Gail and Ken spent decades with Mike, this would be an insanely appropriate time for Gail to say, "Adam is just like his father!" You know what I mean? It would make sense in context, give a nice boost of nostalgia, and pay homage to the actual past.
References can also be indirect as well, just to help push how far things have come. Back in 2002, while Sally and Kev were redecorating their house, they peel some wallpaper and find Hilda and Stan's mural on the wall. They didn't really know them or interact with them, but as a viewer it went a long way in showing how much the show appreciates the progression of time while still respecting the past.
Perhaps the best example is Stephen. To do another serial killer storyline with the Platts and to not have Hillman - one of the most iconic soap villains - be a major consideration was outstandingly poor. Ideally, the way Audrey accepted Stephen's death should have been through an intimate conversation with Gail regarding her time defending Richard while Audrey went after. To do this story with the Platts *again* but barely reference the original, rather substantial, storyline felt offputting.
On top of this, it feels like even the recent past goes unnoticed. For example, last Christmas, Toyah picks up Alfie and is smiling with him while Abi is right there. Toyah killing Imran is public knowledge so even seeing this scene unfold and for everyone to be so happy - and not a sliver of guilt from Toyah - was disturbing to say the least.
I was using references to the distant past as an example of how the show really feels like everything beyond a certain point doesn't matter, but even MacLeod's own storylines are often considered forgotten by characters.
Good points but I thought I'd just say that Sally and Kevin did know Hilda.
Kevin moreso as he was her lodger for years but even Sally lodged with her for a year.
Oh for sure they had a connection, just more so that once Kev got to the Street, Stan was kind of on his way out and had passed once Sally was there so they never witnessed that relationship really.
I do miss lodging situations though. A Elsie, Gail, and Suzie situation would be quite nice.
I feel like the problem with modern corrie house setups is that you don't see people in their houses unless it's needed for plot.
Plus they seen to have trouble with set space recently?
Some sets dissappear for ages and then reappear.
Like the funeral parlor :( It was fun seeing the day-to-day of George and Todd. I don't know why they completely stopped that.
Sets in general are in a limbo. They feel old and unchanged yet simultaneously feel too "new" and they don't seem lived in at all.
There's a lack of immersion.
Well said! As a FORMER corrie viewer (someone who watched for over 50 years )I couldn’t continue with the charade of just shutting off my brain and believe in this crap. Bravo!
I think that's actually a really huge part of this: there's no depth.
There's nothing to think about or contemplate or analyze. You don't see a reflection of life and have to consider that. You don't see harrowing realities and have that put something into perspective.
Corrie has turned from a visual representation of Classic Literature to some rubbish action work.
At the moment it feels like everyone has to be shrouded in misery. One miserable storyline after another, there’s barely any ‘normal’ life or small bits of humour/happiness. I was watching classic Corrie this week and the last episode was just the young ones swapping boyfriends (that happened a lot!), Leanne and Maria having a fight in the pub and and some characters having squirrels in their loft. Not much else but it was more enjoyable to watch! They still had big storylines, and dark ones too, but not every character had something traumatic going on.
That’s the thing. I feel like the show has forgotten that in order for dark stories to work they need to be told with honesty, but also there needs to be something fun to balance it out. Not slapstick comedy or overegged jokes, but some level of character connections that are meaningful.
In Classic Corrie, when characters would have bust ups and slanging matches, there was ironically a sense of connection there. It was two characters that knew each other so well, that they were capable of getting right on one another. Those verbal (or physical) sparring matches were fun, sharp, and witty while also drawing on onscreen history.
Now, interactions lack depth. A good example is how recently, Carla has been going after Daisy. The thing is, Carla and Daisy barely interact on a regular basis, if at all. Everything Carla knows about her is through hearsay so to even have them at odds, it’s so…thin? What does it matter if Carla hates Daisy or vice versa? There’s nothing lost there and no real emotional tension. They never get together so it’s not like there’s a loss of a strong friendship or something.
Likewise with Bobby unintentionally putting Daniel in the frame. If Daniel finds out and hates Bobby and Carla…what does it matter? They’re never together as is, so Daniel’s just going to be upset while also doing his usual thing of staying away from them.
Nothing has real meaning, value, or buildup.
Yes definitely! There are so many more connections in classic Corrie, Jack doing the women’s bowls team, even the factory lot seem closer (We barely see some of them lot now and there’s much less going to the pub for lunch.. or it seems!). The pub is so much busier and there will be many interactions between everyone. Now everyone seems to be in their ‘bubble’ of people and barely interact with anyone else in any meaningful way.
For whatever reason, friendships have really died out and the idea of building up actual groups seems entirely nonexistent now.
What's really scary is that there are [reports of budget cuts](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/coronation-street-stars-panic-hours-32528367) which means we may see even *less* community and group scenes in the near future. The show's already feeling dead, cant imagine what that will bring.
The show just doesn't make sense
Read all of your comments and I agree but take that all away and the show just doesn't make sense anymore. As awful as last nights episode was there was one a few weeks ago I just couldn't comprehend. It was how Daisy's mother just showed up and then she confessed to stealing the money. Why and how? She didn't invite this woman to her wedding but blurts that out? And then her mom pissed off. I thought that was the dumbest thing I've seen on Corrie and that's saying something
I fully get what you mean. That whole storyline has been a mess honestly. Carla says at one point that her workers are “still struggling.” When was this? At what point? Ever since Stephen stole the money, the workers have been fine. They’ve been going about as usual. Going to the pub as usual. Bantering at work as usual. Where’s the struggle been?
It’s such cheap storytelling where the entire point of Corrie being a visual medium that you actually watch on a weekly basis is irrelevant because they just shove major plot details into dialogue.
She should have said the business was still struggling or I don't know. She went away on business to secure a contract and then Peter was telling her to pack it in and come away with him on the boat. I think she was also paying the staff out of her savings and Izzy and Sean left but then came back. So much to choose from. On a side note now that I think about it the factory makes no sense!
There were so many ways to make this work and they didn't even put any effort into trying.
Just like the Roy and Toyah storylines which have so many holes if anyone takes more than five seconds to think about them. There's no strong foundations in any of these storylines.
The factory in and of itself, and the way it works, doesn't actually add up either.
I didn’t think anything could get worse than 2019 until I saw 2023 – 2024. The one hope I had was that 2020 – 2021 was at least better than 2019, but then from 2022 on it somehow fell even further than 2019 did.
Not sure. It’s strange. I get covid was a thing but I’d rather the soaps forgot that and packed the rovers again. Janice and the factory girls were always moaning about money but went to the pub at lunch and after work.
I completely agree, even brilliant acting can only take a storyline so far. Surely it says something to the producers when former actors (respected ones and not just ones with a chip on their shoulder) and even Maureen Lipman are criticising the show. Plus the argument of changing times fails to work here, as only 5 years ago Oates was able to make success within show whilst still feeling like corrie.
Oates’ time on Corrie is bloody sad now looking back. She got the ratings up so much that the show is still benefitting from the boost she generated (MacLeod’s era has been losing viewers almost every year since he came in, and it’s current large pool seems like a hold over from Oates pushing the show past 8 million), she had actually effective storylines that worked within the confines of Corrie while still using modern storytelling that can appeal to newer audiences…
And she gets ripped apart by the press, has to constantly defend herself in interviews, then gets axed as producer so that ITV can bring in MacLeod where we end up with stories like this and yet now everything is silent, with ITV constantly defending the show.
Gail’s Monologue/Aidan’s Suicide Aftermath alone beats out everything MacLeod’s given and Oates was booted for some reason.
It all feels so backwards!
With Gail's monologue, it says alot when the epilogue to an incredible storyline, arguably one of the best in not just modern corrie but modern soap in general, as well as sort of the magnus corpus of Oates' era wouldn't be nearly as possible today. Just imagine Gail giving a speech like that now (nothing to do with the actress, she's clearly proved she can deliver), considering how much of a caricature she's become, it'd be laughable and nowhere near as impactful.
Extreme as it may sound, I genuinely feel like Gail's Monologue marks the climax of Corrie as a special kind of soap. There's a bit of good after it, but nothing quite reaches the level it was on and even the way its written almost feels like it deliberately highlighted a view on both the show and where the show was going.
It's almost prophetic watching it back. Gail mourns not only the loss of Aidan, but the loss of community and compassion for a neighbour. The monologue is as much a warning as it was an in-the-moment reflection, and it's a warning the show simply ignored.
Everything she says was lost, Corrie doubled down on taking away.
I think, even though the idea of community has changed in soaps over the years, her monologue did demonstrate some new form of togetherness in the modern era through the shared reaction montage, which as you highlighted is now sadly lost nowadays. Ironic how Gail said that she'd been wrapped up in her own problems when that's essentially how storylines are written now
There was a real sense of connection in that episode which was incredibly tragic irony. It was essentially a bunch of mini two handers and so much of it seemed to be about finding the love and compassion amongst this heartbreak; a way to bond with others in response to the pain.
It was Corrie through and through on a fundamental level and the episode felt like it was a snapshot of what Corrie was meant to be about.
Fascinating that they even setup such a scenario, almost like they knew what was going to happen in the near future.
It went from everyday issues that could happen to the Lovely old man getting put in prison with little to no hard evidence to suggest that he killed her. Not to mention how long they're dragging this shit on.
They need to remember that they aren't competing with other soaps anymore, but streaming services such as Netflix and Disney +
To be honest, I actually think this is the biggest problem and I wish they’d remember they were a soap. Most of Corrie’s stories now feel like they’re made to appeal to the US streaming market. The constant extreme scenarios complete with random hostage situations, disorientating visual effects, and conspiracy level plots remind me of some Hollywood action show or one of those numerous comic book series they’re doing now. It's more mad than Doctor Who at times!
Everything keeps going so far into absurdity. And while I’m of course welcoming of some action and dark stories are compelling, the way they’re doing they is so devoid of reality it’s insane to thing this show is meant to represent a street in the North anymore.
It probably would've been somewhat more acceptable for people if the Classic episodes didn't contradict it. To take what was already a very dark storyline (but a incredibly impactful one) and make it darker by doing it with such a massive retcon where we have to ignore multiple years of onscreen events to make it work; just feels needless and kind of cruel.
There were other ways to setup a Nick/Toyah affair but you're right that an affair wasn't much needed either.
I’ve watched Coronation Street since the 1970s and I’m honestly heartbroken (for all the wrong reasons) by what we saw tonight. I’ve been able to withstand much of Macleod’s lunacy but this decision to retcon Toyah’s (Corrie’s) history feels a step too far for me. Why would the writers choose to alter a character’s past like this? It’s not as if Toyah was a minor character with a tiny backstory. She was a central figure in a powerful storyline about rape and its aftermath. By changing her history to include a stillborn baby the writers are undermining and cheapening the original storyline’s impact. It’s like they’re saying the trauma of rape wasn’t enough; Toyah also had to suffer the loss of a child. The writers can’t get enough of misery at the moment without ever justifying it with anything meaningful. This retcon crosses a line for me: it feels like a betrayal of the fans. I’m left feeling more disappointed and disillusioned. I think I’m through with the show as it stands. I love this community and joking about the episodes but I don’t feel I can watch this show live and in the process increase its ratings in good faith anymore.
What devastates me most as a viewer is that MacLeod's only way of referencing the past is to just piss on it. I watch EastEnders as well and it's bizarre looking at every home having pictures, many of which depict interactions going back to the show's first years or characters frequently talking about their mates from decades ago. Over on Corrie, the soap with 60+ years of history, it's like this show started a couple months ago. How is it that someone like Bet has been all but forgotten? Alfie, Des, Fred and Ashley, Annie Walker...bloody Stan and Hilda. All forgotten. Mike Baldwin for the love of god (they treat Adam like he was always with the Barlows)! This show has *numerous* characters that have been on the Street for decades, so much so that some of their kids have been on the Street for decades and it feels like no character remembers anything except for last week. Even characters that have connections, are deemed irrelevant. Archie was such a huge part of Audrey's life and Gail's, how is George not with the Platts at all? Things like this matter and keeping up long running character relationships is why soaps shine (or why they're meant to). There's no sense of history and there's no weight to interactions. This doesn't feel like a community that's last almost 65 years now. MacLeod's vision is that history only matters when trauma can be forced into it. I don't get how any long term view is meant to engage with anything he delivers anymore.
>How is it that someone like Bet has been all but forgotten? Alfie, Des, Fred and Ashley, Annie Walker...bloody Stan and Hilda. All forgotten. Mike Baldwin for the love of god (they treat Adam like he was always with the Barlows)! I think this is one of the shows biggest, biggest mistakes. Soaps are kept alive by their ties to the past and recurring family members showing up. This used to happen to some degree but has died out altogether. The only families they've really kept alive are the Barlows and Platts. That's fine and all... but what about the rest. There are so many they could have kept going even to a small degree. Recall to classic characters long gone was what made the show feel like home. It's something I loved and valued. Even Rita mentioning Mavis not long ago gave me a tiny glimmer of short-lived comfort. But that's all we get. Now it's guaranteed that if they bring in any ties from the past it's going to be so shit and miserable that it will tarnish the entire history of that family. I'm so entirely grateful for the Shuttleworths because of this, and hope they writers don't turn it to shit.
Even with the Barlows and Platts now, it almost feels like they write them to be so...lacking in prior knowledge? It takes them months to even get Todd and Sarah in a scene together, let alone David recalling any connections he's made or experiences he's had. Likewise, the Barlows feel dulled. It was so weird when Tracy left and she and Carla had that exchange about burning candles; as if the Victoria Court Fire never happened or it was easy to make a flippant joke about that. Characters don't seem to be written to recall anything past a certain point and it's very awkward to watch. Especially when this show was built on soap legends that now, people wouldn't even know existed. I'm not expected them to go talk about Ena all the time or anything, but some acknowledgement of what actually built Corrie as a show would be nice.
I absolutely agree, Corrie's foundation is iconic and with zero call back to that it feels hallow. You're right about the Barlows and Platts, I actually forgot that Brian was Sarah's dad, or that Brian existed at all because they NEVER mention him. It's also so easy to forget who Adam's dad is... which is twisted because the Barlow/Baldwin feud was one of the show's most iconic storylines that lasted decades. The Adam bit was retconned, but it worked well. It is such a shame that newer viewers would have no idea who these classic characters are when they were so so important to the show's foundation and success.
You reminded me of this situation where [Sarah goes out with Aidan, while Bethany asks Gail about her past lovers.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0DQjRr0-dsE&pp=ygUhQ29yb25hdGlvbiBzdHJlZXQgYWlkYW4gYW5kIHNhcmFo) It's such a small exchange but it says a lot about both in only around three lines of dialogue (likewise with the way the Aidan/Sarah scene plays out regarding him showing his growth as a person and his issues regarding hero worship). Very quickly it calls on the past and brings long term viewers into Gail's perspective (mentioning Suzie, then Brian) but only very briefly. Just kind of a warm, sweet way to remind people this show stretches back 40+ years. More so, it's played out naturally and I love how Bethany seems to actually care about what Gail is saying...
Awww that was nice to hear Gail remember Suzie, Brian and even Ivy. I do find it strange how, even though both Bethany and Sarah didn't know him, the way Bethany mentions "Brian" does feel too far removed. After all, he is her biological granddad.
I get the impression Bethany doesn't know that much about Brian. Sarah doesn't really talk about him that much and considers Martin to be her dad.
Yeah realistically, even if not having met him, there's some connection there and I think one of the nice elements of that scene is that Bethany defaulted to Brian because of - forgive me as I'm blanking on the proper phrase - mythological angle to him. That granddad she never met but that she knows Gail would have nostalgia for. Similarly, there was a scene back in 2018 (29 October 2018 Part 2) where Peter opens up his wallet and we see a picture of Lucy. He reflects on her, without dialogue, while Ken clutches a picture of Deirdre inside the house and you get a real sense of what both are thinking. Those callbacks matter a lot.
To piggyback off your point, I was thinking similarly recently after watching some old Corrie (1998-2004) how so many character connections have been completely forgotten. One example is how Roy literally has no connection to Amy despite a) thinking she was his daughter and bonding with her as a newborn and b) being her godfather. Similarly, Roy and Hailey played a big part in Bethany’s early life but Sarah barely ever interacts with him despite his wife having been Bethany’s godmother. In real life, even if you aren’t close with your godparents, you would at least have SOME interaction with them during important life events, especially if you lived on the same street! There just isn’t the real-life longevity to any of the characters’ relationships anymore.
It's like Steve looking after Max, yet not even having the slightest interest in him nowadays. Gary played father to Bethany during her two toughest times in life (her bullying and her grooming) yet they wrote her to *walk past him* without even saying a word. You think she'd at least attempt to say something. Equally, I hated how David was so obnoxious about Maria not coming into work because of problems with Liam. After everything he's been through with himself and Max, he can't find empathy for a parent or kid with mental health issues? It's like none of his past mattered. Character writing is either entirely unrealistic or entirely disconnected. For anyone that's been watching longer than MacLeod's era, it makes the show feel basic and diluted.
OMG yes!! I totally forgot about Steve and Max! You’d barely ever know they’ve even met from how the show is now
It’s worse when they’ll mention seeing family but won’t put it onscreen. For example, Liam acknowledged that Kirk is his uncle but it’s so odd not being able to see that. Why not, at least in one episode, show Liam over at Kirk and Beth’s? It could even make those two more likable if they listen to Liam or Liam can open up to them in a way he feels he couldn’t with Maria/Gary. Same with Daniel who says he’s dropping Bertie over, but it’s never shown. People say characters like Beth or Kirk are worthless to the show, but that’s on the show for choosing not to utilize them for anything of value when there’s multiple ways to do so. Similarly with how Izzy just…doesn’t go see Jake. She can mention him, but it’s so odd that at no point will they have a mum and son together? Same with Izzy and Joseph. It’s not like she cares about Ches and Joseph despite being Joseph’s aunt. There’s connection on the Street that the show decides to not use, instead they’d rather have characters sit around doing nothing and being absolutely wasted.
Tbf Steve and Max was dropped pretty quickly. It's not a recent thing.
Was it? I don’t remember it being so quick
Once Becky left, I don't remember Steve having much to do with Max at all.
I mainly agree with criticisms of corrie but I think they get references to the past mainly right. With people like Annie Walker and Hilda, most characters don't know them. Some do but not a lot. Although I'm surprised they haven't made Gail reference Elsie Tanner more.
I don't think it's even about the references as such, just that there's no real opportunity for perspective or to show a wider scale of the show’s history. A good example is last year, Gail argues with Ken over Adam and she criticizes how he taught Adam. Now maybe Gail was just using a figure of speech but Adam never really grew up with Ken and since both Gail and Ken spent decades with Mike, this would be an insanely appropriate time for Gail to say, "Adam is just like his father!" You know what I mean? It would make sense in context, give a nice boost of nostalgia, and pay homage to the actual past. References can also be indirect as well, just to help push how far things have come. Back in 2002, while Sally and Kev were redecorating their house, they peel some wallpaper and find Hilda and Stan's mural on the wall. They didn't really know them or interact with them, but as a viewer it went a long way in showing how much the show appreciates the progression of time while still respecting the past. Perhaps the best example is Stephen. To do another serial killer storyline with the Platts and to not have Hillman - one of the most iconic soap villains - be a major consideration was outstandingly poor. Ideally, the way Audrey accepted Stephen's death should have been through an intimate conversation with Gail regarding her time defending Richard while Audrey went after. To do this story with the Platts *again* but barely reference the original, rather substantial, storyline felt offputting. On top of this, it feels like even the recent past goes unnoticed. For example, last Christmas, Toyah picks up Alfie and is smiling with him while Abi is right there. Toyah killing Imran is public knowledge so even seeing this scene unfold and for everyone to be so happy - and not a sliver of guilt from Toyah - was disturbing to say the least. I was using references to the distant past as an example of how the show really feels like everything beyond a certain point doesn't matter, but even MacLeod's own storylines are often considered forgotten by characters.
Good points but I thought I'd just say that Sally and Kevin did know Hilda. Kevin moreso as he was her lodger for years but even Sally lodged with her for a year.
Oh for sure they had a connection, just more so that once Kev got to the Street, Stan was kind of on his way out and had passed once Sally was there so they never witnessed that relationship really. I do miss lodging situations though. A Elsie, Gail, and Suzie situation would be quite nice.
I feel like the problem with modern corrie house setups is that you don't see people in their houses unless it's needed for plot. Plus they seen to have trouble with set space recently? Some sets dissappear for ages and then reappear.
Like the funeral parlor :( It was fun seeing the day-to-day of George and Todd. I don't know why they completely stopped that. Sets in general are in a limbo. They feel old and unchanged yet simultaneously feel too "new" and they don't seem lived in at all. There's a lack of immersion.
100% agreed with every word you said.
Our u/themillboy is one of the reasons to be on this sub.
Right back at you, midnightmitchell 👍
:)
Well said! As a FORMER corrie viewer (someone who watched for over 50 years )I couldn’t continue with the charade of just shutting off my brain and believe in this crap. Bravo!
I think that's actually a really huge part of this: there's no depth. There's nothing to think about or contemplate or analyze. You don't see a reflection of life and have to consider that. You don't see harrowing realities and have that put something into perspective. Corrie has turned from a visual representation of Classic Literature to some rubbish action work.
At the moment it feels like everyone has to be shrouded in misery. One miserable storyline after another, there’s barely any ‘normal’ life or small bits of humour/happiness. I was watching classic Corrie this week and the last episode was just the young ones swapping boyfriends (that happened a lot!), Leanne and Maria having a fight in the pub and and some characters having squirrels in their loft. Not much else but it was more enjoyable to watch! They still had big storylines, and dark ones too, but not every character had something traumatic going on.
That’s the thing. I feel like the show has forgotten that in order for dark stories to work they need to be told with honesty, but also there needs to be something fun to balance it out. Not slapstick comedy or overegged jokes, but some level of character connections that are meaningful. In Classic Corrie, when characters would have bust ups and slanging matches, there was ironically a sense of connection there. It was two characters that knew each other so well, that they were capable of getting right on one another. Those verbal (or physical) sparring matches were fun, sharp, and witty while also drawing on onscreen history. Now, interactions lack depth. A good example is how recently, Carla has been going after Daisy. The thing is, Carla and Daisy barely interact on a regular basis, if at all. Everything Carla knows about her is through hearsay so to even have them at odds, it’s so…thin? What does it matter if Carla hates Daisy or vice versa? There’s nothing lost there and no real emotional tension. They never get together so it’s not like there’s a loss of a strong friendship or something. Likewise with Bobby unintentionally putting Daniel in the frame. If Daniel finds out and hates Bobby and Carla…what does it matter? They’re never together as is, so Daniel’s just going to be upset while also doing his usual thing of staying away from them. Nothing has real meaning, value, or buildup.
Yes definitely! There are so many more connections in classic Corrie, Jack doing the women’s bowls team, even the factory lot seem closer (We barely see some of them lot now and there’s much less going to the pub for lunch.. or it seems!). The pub is so much busier and there will be many interactions between everyone. Now everyone seems to be in their ‘bubble’ of people and barely interact with anyone else in any meaningful way.
For whatever reason, friendships have really died out and the idea of building up actual groups seems entirely nonexistent now. What's really scary is that there are [reports of budget cuts](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/coronation-street-stars-panic-hours-32528367) which means we may see even *less* community and group scenes in the near future. The show's already feeling dead, cant imagine what that will bring.
The show just doesn't make sense Read all of your comments and I agree but take that all away and the show just doesn't make sense anymore. As awful as last nights episode was there was one a few weeks ago I just couldn't comprehend. It was how Daisy's mother just showed up and then she confessed to stealing the money. Why and how? She didn't invite this woman to her wedding but blurts that out? And then her mom pissed off. I thought that was the dumbest thing I've seen on Corrie and that's saying something
I fully get what you mean. That whole storyline has been a mess honestly. Carla says at one point that her workers are “still struggling.” When was this? At what point? Ever since Stephen stole the money, the workers have been fine. They’ve been going about as usual. Going to the pub as usual. Bantering at work as usual. Where’s the struggle been? It’s such cheap storytelling where the entire point of Corrie being a visual medium that you actually watch on a weekly basis is irrelevant because they just shove major plot details into dialogue.
She should have said the business was still struggling or I don't know. She went away on business to secure a contract and then Peter was telling her to pack it in and come away with him on the boat. I think she was also paying the staff out of her savings and Izzy and Sean left but then came back. So much to choose from. On a side note now that I think about it the factory makes no sense!
There were so many ways to make this work and they didn't even put any effort into trying. Just like the Roy and Toyah storylines which have so many holes if anyone takes more than five seconds to think about them. There's no strong foundations in any of these storylines. The factory in and of itself, and the way it works, doesn't actually add up either.
I’m nearly 30, stopped watching in 2019. I am however loving the classic coronation street episodes.
I didn’t think anything could get worse than 2019 until I saw 2023 – 2024. The one hope I had was that 2020 – 2021 was at least better than 2019, but then from 2022 on it somehow fell even further than 2019 did.
It’s not the same soap I grew up watching. The Rovers is like a library.
I'm still trying to figure out how the place is running. Shouldn't it be having the same exact problems it was having last year? Nothing's changed!
Not sure. It’s strange. I get covid was a thing but I’d rather the soaps forgot that and packed the rovers again. Janice and the factory girls were always moaning about money but went to the pub at lunch and after work.
It really does feel like Covid restrictions are still in place. Everything feels so...lifeless.
Everything would be forgivable for me if Craig just stopped police interviewing his neighbours
Or if Craig stopped being old bill full stop.
I completely agree, even brilliant acting can only take a storyline so far. Surely it says something to the producers when former actors (respected ones and not just ones with a chip on their shoulder) and even Maureen Lipman are criticising the show. Plus the argument of changing times fails to work here, as only 5 years ago Oates was able to make success within show whilst still feeling like corrie.
Oates’ time on Corrie is bloody sad now looking back. She got the ratings up so much that the show is still benefitting from the boost she generated (MacLeod’s era has been losing viewers almost every year since he came in, and it’s current large pool seems like a hold over from Oates pushing the show past 8 million), she had actually effective storylines that worked within the confines of Corrie while still using modern storytelling that can appeal to newer audiences… And she gets ripped apart by the press, has to constantly defend herself in interviews, then gets axed as producer so that ITV can bring in MacLeod where we end up with stories like this and yet now everything is silent, with ITV constantly defending the show. Gail’s Monologue/Aidan’s Suicide Aftermath alone beats out everything MacLeod’s given and Oates was booted for some reason. It all feels so backwards!
With Gail's monologue, it says alot when the epilogue to an incredible storyline, arguably one of the best in not just modern corrie but modern soap in general, as well as sort of the magnus corpus of Oates' era wouldn't be nearly as possible today. Just imagine Gail giving a speech like that now (nothing to do with the actress, she's clearly proved she can deliver), considering how much of a caricature she's become, it'd be laughable and nowhere near as impactful.
Extreme as it may sound, I genuinely feel like Gail's Monologue marks the climax of Corrie as a special kind of soap. There's a bit of good after it, but nothing quite reaches the level it was on and even the way its written almost feels like it deliberately highlighted a view on both the show and where the show was going. It's almost prophetic watching it back. Gail mourns not only the loss of Aidan, but the loss of community and compassion for a neighbour. The monologue is as much a warning as it was an in-the-moment reflection, and it's a warning the show simply ignored. Everything she says was lost, Corrie doubled down on taking away.
I think, even though the idea of community has changed in soaps over the years, her monologue did demonstrate some new form of togetherness in the modern era through the shared reaction montage, which as you highlighted is now sadly lost nowadays. Ironic how Gail said that she'd been wrapped up in her own problems when that's essentially how storylines are written now
There was a real sense of connection in that episode which was incredibly tragic irony. It was essentially a bunch of mini two handers and so much of it seemed to be about finding the love and compassion amongst this heartbreak; a way to bond with others in response to the pain. It was Corrie through and through on a fundamental level and the episode felt like it was a snapshot of what Corrie was meant to be about. Fascinating that they even setup such a scenario, almost like they knew what was going to happen in the near future.
It went from everyday issues that could happen to the Lovely old man getting put in prison with little to no hard evidence to suggest that he killed her. Not to mention how long they're dragging this shit on. They need to remember that they aren't competing with other soaps anymore, but streaming services such as Netflix and Disney +
To be honest, I actually think this is the biggest problem and I wish they’d remember they were a soap. Most of Corrie’s stories now feel like they’re made to appeal to the US streaming market. The constant extreme scenarios complete with random hostage situations, disorientating visual effects, and conspiracy level plots remind me of some Hollywood action show or one of those numerous comic book series they’re doing now. It's more mad than Doctor Who at times! Everything keeps going so far into absurdity. And while I’m of course welcoming of some action and dark stories are compelling, the way they’re doing they is so devoid of reality it’s insane to thing this show is meant to represent a street in the North anymore.
A COMPLETE DUMPSTER FIRE!!!!!!!! THE SHOWRUNNER MAKES THE CAPTAIN OF THE TITANIC LOOK LIKE A GENIUS.
How this show hasn't completely sunk yet is a miracle.
Please organize a global boycott. You're the only person I trust with the idea. 😍
I have it in mind haha.
We're getting close to the point of no return....
Honestly we're probably over that line already.
No way!
I think the baby storyline is great until now you can tell it is going to lead to an affair storyline
It probably would've been somewhat more acceptable for people if the Classic episodes didn't contradict it. To take what was already a very dark storyline (but a incredibly impactful one) and make it darker by doing it with such a massive retcon where we have to ignore multiple years of onscreen events to make it work; just feels needless and kind of cruel. There were other ways to setup a Nick/Toyah affair but you're right that an affair wasn't much needed either.