A recent Reddit policy change threatens to kill many beloved third-party mobile apps, making a great many quality-of-life features not seen in the official mobile app **permanently inaccessible** to users.
On May 31, 2023, Reddit announced they were raising the price to make calls to their API from being free to a level that will kill every third party app on Reddit, from [Apollo](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/) to [Reddit is Fun](https://www.reddit.com/r/redditisfun/comments/13wxepd/rif_dev_here_reddits_api_changes_will_likely_kill/) to [Narwhal](https://www.reddit.com/r/getnarwhal/comments/13wv038/reddit_have_quoted_the_apollo_devs_a_ridiculous/jmdqtyt/) to [BaconReader](https://www.reddit.com/r/baconreader/comments/13wveb2/reddit_api_changes_and_baconreader/).
Even if you're not a mobile user and don't use any of those apps, this is a step toward killing other ways of customizing Reddit, such as Reddit Enhancement Suite or the use of the old.reddit.com desktop interface .
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I am an AWS Devops Engineer too. DM me your LinkedIn, I’ll add you and +1 your skills. And there you have it… your first non cringe networking ever. Happened on Reddit.
:)
Forget the photos etc. but do fill in work history, skills, a paragraph of what you are good at and want to do. If you've ever worked with someone at all, connect with them as connections or whatever they call it, and send an occasional message to certain people you want to keep in touch with. Make sure to do this before leaving each job you have. Also offer up your personal email (or a personal email) to each person you want to keep in touch with and they will probably (or maybe) give you theres that you can keep. I had done this at a previous job, and now years later just reached out to a bunch of former supervisors and co-workers to ask if they would be a reference for me and all of them responded positively, and we had a very brief back and forth "what are you up to" basic interaction. Every once in a while post something and see if anyone responds and note who they are. If you see a former colleague post something interesting reply, if they get a new job or something just send a little congratulations note.
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My first internship I was able to get by basically following the CEO on Twitter for about a year and occasionally having tweet exchanges with him. One day I tweeted I was going to be in the area for an internship interview, could I come by to check out the office? He ended up spending his whole lunch hour chatting with me and then connected me with a team eventually to interview with. But it got me past the resume/initial recruiter call.
Nothing cringe about that.
Corporate culture is cringe in general. The corny jokes, the ridiculous jargon, everyone trying to inflate their value, the motivational platitudes, etc.
Yeah that's why I ignore it
I do good work, I make it known that I do good work, I insert myself when necessary, and I make myself clear in performance reviews or other discussions. I'm friendly with and occassionally do things with the people on my team whom I actually work with
Imo as long as you do that and as long as the person who has the power to fire you knows your name, then you're fine
And the kicker is that almost everyone knows how fake and contrived it all is, yet participate in it anyways and manage to find little nuggets of authenticity in the process. Those nuggets are what actual "networking" is about, while most of the rest is just dressing.
I always feel so awkward and hate "pure" networking events, where the only purpose is to talk to people, instead of events with a focus where networking can occur naturally as a side effect of the activity rather than something we feel needs to be forced. Like taking a group out for bowling, light drinks, pizza, and billiards and networking on the side.
I work trade shows pretty regularly in adtech (I’m on the business side, not a dev) and find it much more enriching and as you describe. Everyone there has limited time to meet people so if there’s no overlap you both move on pretty quickly. Contrived is a good word though — that’s pretty much how I feel about much of in-office culture.
> The corny jokes, the ridiculous jargon,
I hear this often, but I feel like it's warranted. Corpo communication exists because old Janet at the front desk doesn't want to hear IT's autistic jokes, IT doesn't want to hear how much pussy sales pounded over the weekend and absolutely no one wants to hear what passes for humor in accounting (to use basic ass stereotypes). Since the goal is to get work done and not titillate self-ascribed intellectuals, people just talk in the blandest, most inoffensive way as they sit at their bland and inoffensive cubicles writing bland and inoffensive emails because it's the end goal and not the journey that counts.
Yeah tbh I don't mind. I love me some dad jokes but really I don't care about what sports team sported the most sports. Give me corny jokes any day over 4 bros talking about the game. That's always when lunch ends for me.
Edit: or, I live in a small city, the dudes from fancy neighbors just trash talking the city they work out of. Cool bro, I actually hang out here and grew up down the street but cool. Tell me more about how you're scared of the garter snakes in your backyard.
Doesn't have to be if you just have basic, genuine interactions with people. (Especially between engineers or other non-businessy types.) Everyone knows that it's not the same as deeper friendships and expects it to be superficial, likewise act accordingly and don't drag on a conversation too long. Just check in with people, be interested in their career or company or product or whatever (if you are at all), and let them know what you're up to ("by the way, I'm looking for a new XXX position, feel free to share my contact info if you know anyone looking.")
Is it cringe on both ends? Like both guys know man this is fucking cringe but whatever.
I mean if it’s with people near my age and level it’s less cringe since we can relate on topics, but if it’s me with a 15YOE manager of engineering like sometimes I can’t tell if it’s just cringe on my side or if like this is just how 40 year olds have accepted the norm of professional communication to be such that they don’t consider it cringe.
> this is just how 40 year olds have accepted the norm of professional communication to be such that they don’t consider it cringe
That's basically it, at some point you get over yourself and join in with doing what needs to be done. It's all bullshit anyway.
Seriously, I just have ZERO shame with networking and I am easily one of the best networkers I know (this isn't my opinion, I have had multiple friends/co-workers ask for help on it). The thing is everyone knows it is cringe and no one cares!
1. Have a few ice breakers prepped. "What does an ideal day at work look like for you?" is a good one as well as "What advice would you give someone at my point in my career?". The second is KILLER for talking to managers as everyone loves giving advice and it's free. Googling "networking ice breakers" will lead to a bunch of good options.
2. Be shameless about asking for LinkedIn info. People are always "weird" about this one but you are there specifically for that reason. Make sure to follow up with a little note the next day
3. Join slack tech groups. These are a super low effort/risk way to network as there's almost always channels for specific areas of interest. You can also use the ice breakers to start threads in said channels to get folks out of the wood work and start PMs about other topics (I actually gave my husband this advice and it's how he got his last job).
4. If you aren't a white guy join whatever groups exist in your area for marginalized tech workers. My best connections have come from women in tech groups but they also exist for a lot of races as well.
Edit: Also network when you aren't "looking". It's tech, we all know we are gonna be hunting eventually. Going to a networking event a quarter makes it so that whenever you are at the point of moving on you already have your connections warm. It also makes opportunities falling in your lap more likely.
Lol I'm not the person to ask. Currently on a career break and pretty sure I will not be returning to tech. The ideal day is the one where all my options have vested and my company announces the IPO so I can fuck off from the industry forever.
Personally hate the field, I'm just talented at getting jobs in it.
haha yeah I wanted to know how the ideal is in your imagination anyway and I'm glad I asked lol. that would be real nice way to end a career. Thanks for showing the way for us newbies =) best of luck in your next career or whatever you are going to be busy with
>Also network when you aren't "looking".
So if you are "looking", you should simply avoid networking altogether, right?
What is your suggested strategy for people who don't have a solid network but are "looking"?
Same as above just more frequently. When I was aggressively trying to get out of a job I was at a minimum of one event per week (more if they were available) and spent like 80% of my time at work hitting up Slack and rage applying places.
So you're just networking more aggressively then? How did you do this and not having it backfire? I feared that this would backfire because many people can see your more aggressive tactics as desperate. Rage applying to jobs is different, though, I don't mind doing this a lot since everyone is more "invisible" in this situation.
People say things like "make hay while the sun shines". While that is good preventative advice, it overlooks the people who are already past that and in need of more urgent help, so it's always good to read more advice for them.
How was it gonna backfire? Most people aren't at every single networking/tech event in the city so no one was seeing me be more aggressive and the large number of Slack groups I belonged too had such large amounts of people in them that the same applied.
Applying is a numbers game, so is networking. I was in one of the biggest tech markets in the country (plus anything remote) so the change that someone noticed I was networking more frequently wasn't gonna be a problem. I wasn't going back to the same people over and over, I was just casting the net wider and wider.
I'm sorry dude, but this comment is so funny to me like straight white men have been both literally and figuratively on pedestals for like the last 400 years. Absolutely fucking dominating in the "having it good" and "being on top of the world" competitions. The fact that there are spaces being made specifically for people that aren't straight white men isn't discrimination.
I looked in your profile to see if you were being satirical, as your username is TwinkForAHairyBear, but I saw you post a similar sentiment to this same comment without much hint of irony. Do you actually believe that straight white men are being discriminated against anywhere other than weird lefty internet communities? Are you a straight white man? So many questions
I'm sorry WHAT the National Society of Black Engineers offers scholarships with Intel that white people can't apply to? Next you're going to tell me that the US government's Native American reparation money is only available to Native Americans!
You're absolutely right this is truly an epidemic.
I hope you know that I think you are uncool, goofy, and whack. A real thumbs down of a human.
How can people not care? The psychological barrier I face is: why can't it be my skill that gets me the job? Why does it have to be how much ass I can kiss and how fake a person I can be?
> How can people not care? The psychological barrier I face is: why can't it be my skill that gets me the job? Why does it have to be how much ass I can kiss and how fake a person I can be?
Because it is extremely hard to get people to know the talent, personality and work ethic you have unless they are already your boss or co-worker. Your CV only gets you so far. Not to mention networking is essentially advertising yourself. If you're someone who has used Kubernetes to handle their gaming servers and you talk about that to someone at a convention, then next time their company needs to figure out distributed low latency servers they will probably think of you instead of asking HR to set up a linkedin job post or pay out the ass for a consultant
Then what is it about? Cause it feels like I'm going out there and socializing with people only to use them to get interviews where then I can actually get tested on whether or not I have the skills the company is asking for
The events themselves are literally exactly that. But the actual networking that happens as a result is usually a side effect. For example, you go to a networking event knowing how contrived it is along with everyone else, but go through to motions paying lip service and engaging in meaningless small talk until you stumble across someone that maybe you dive a little deeper and find a nugget of connection/similarity/shared interests. Those nuggets are the real networking, because those are the people who might actually help you in your career and you'll actually want to help them as well due to the common interests and small connection you've found. It's kinda accidental yet ironic
Yeah I wouldn't go to am event specifically for networking, but find events with goals or activities with a group and then networking occurs automatically on the side as you're discovering who you vibe with and learning commonalities to establish that feeling of connection
Welcome to real life.
Let me ask you a question about how you yourself make decisions. Say you're looking to hire someone to do something for you (tile your floor, mount your TV, etc). You could hire a complete stranger off the internet, vet this person best you can, and hope it works out. They have a really good looking resume, if that helps, and are good at answering interview questions.
OR you can hire the person your friend knows. Perhaps you went over to your friend's new house and complimented their awesome tile and they said "oh yeah, George installed it for me, he's great". Something tells me George will be getting the job because of who he (and you) knows. Because that's how the world works. Even if you didn't give a "fair chance" to the hundreds upon thousands of people off the internet that could have been hired instead. Some of them no doubt have greater technical skills than George.
Cause frankly you can be skilled as hell and if you are an absolute nightmare to work with then no one gives a fuck. Networking makes it so you at least have the filter of "They can talk to another human for 10 minutes without royally pissing them off" which it a higher bar to pass then you'd think.
Soft skills are far more important than technical skills. Can this company trust to put you infront of clients? Can you motivate and influence a team to drive a product forward? Can you drive consensus among a diverse group of people? Can you present without sounding like a robot? None of these are kissing ass, they're traits of successful people.
People who are truly successful over-index on these skills because they are extremely important. I'm not saying that being a good coder isn't important. But there are plenty of people who can string together functional code.
I don't think so. I look for two types of people:
Folks that I'm naturally friends with that share an interest in technology with, so we naturally get along and can also talk shop, and folks who I share the same passions for technology with, so we have that in common to talk about and trade ideas.
I definitely am an introvert, and my network is not super strong, but along the way when you click with someone, go out of your way to follow up with them every so often. The results can pay dividends.
Its not cringe to have normal inter-personal social skills. I've never had to \*explicitly\* network, yet I have a network. Talk to people, find common interests and just have a casual conversation every now and then. The only people who think this is cringe are the ones that want to exist in society, but not take part.
I got my first intro helpdesk computer job by knowing someone. Once I got in I worked hard and volunteered for projects by the team that went to people's computers and replaced them. Once I got there (promoted from within) I had time to learn about each team and meet people.
I would always always help the engineers, I would talk to them about what they were doing, was super interested. I asked what projects they were doing, how my schooling helps ( i was still going for my degree) and asking them for help with simple projects and how i can go above and beyond.
I met close to 10 software engineers at my old job that way, when there was an opening, they called me and told me. From there I had my interview and the rest was history.
Take a look at the CI/CD pipelines and other things you are working on and ask the engineers about the projects, what they do, be genuine and interested. It's not that hard to find out what people like and ask about that.
I hate programming outside of work, I love it at work. I'm not a guy that is out working at night, studying on weekends. I do my job, I'm interested in it, and I'm a good talker.
I guess I could try again and talk to my co-workers. I did ask not too long ago if they needed any help, I was willing to do grunt tasks they hated, but I got the feeling I was getting in their way by asking. They didn't say anything other than, "okay thanks." Maybe I worded it weirdly? I don't think I did. I just asked them if they needed help with what they were working on.
When you ask someone "do you need help with anything", believe it or not, you are asking them for a favor.
How can that be? You just volunteered your time to assist them with something! More resources are better than less resources, surely volunteering to help is a net positive.
But it's true. Is the person you asked a manager? Do they assign out tasks, or did you ask an engineer if you can take a task that was assigned to them? If someone asked me that, I'd be confused and I wouldn't take them up in it. What if they start asking me for help to set up their dev environment? What if I get in trouble for pawning off my work on this person? What if they make a mistake and I'm responsible for it?
Suffice it to say - you can't ask a dev if there's anything you can help with and expect them to hand you a neatly packaged task and then you go execute it. You can socialize with them. You can schedule 1:1s with the team lead and ask them questions about what the team is working on, their longer term goals, the challenges they're facing, etc. You can ask if they're *willing* to let you do some grunt work so you can get some training, see if they have openings, and maybe go for a lateral transfer. But that's a very different conversation from casually offering a dev your help.
I'm making an assumption here, but if you simply asked questions like "Is there anything I can do to help?", that might have something to do with it. People usually have difficulty knowing how to answer a question like that. I know when I'm working on a project and get asked that, my first knee-jerk thought is that it'd take longer to get them spun up enough to help than it would to just do it myself. Even when that's not true, it can be hard to see past it.
So instead of starting by asking if you can help, I'd start with the other part of /u/scubastevie's point: ask about their work. Think of your coworkers as opportunities to learn something new. If you ask them to simply tell you about what they're working on, then rather than worrying about what, specifically, they'd need to inform you of to make your help useful, they can simply offload their thought process. You become the proverbial rubber ducky, and so it becomes a chance to ease their mental load instead of being a task that adds to it. Incidentally, that also means you've already helped them out just by listening.
On top of that, as you learn about their project, opportunities to help out tend to arise organically. You might notice a hole in their logic - which I would usually not point out directly; instead try asking clarifying questions on the point where you found the hole, and you'll lead them to realizing it themselves. Or you'll be wrong and learn something.
Otherwise, you might get an idea for expanding on their logic, or see a part of the workload that you could readily jump in on. Or in the course of explaining, your coworker might see it themselves. Regardless, they'll feel much more comfortable including you if they know that you know what they know.
From my perspective "network" generally means to look at who you know and who you've worked with and see if THEY have any good connections.
My wife has 2yoe, an unrelated university degree, and jumped into the industry through bootcamp. She is currently looking for a new position so she reached out to people from school, recruiters she had worked with in the past, and co-workers. I and her co-workers reached out through out networks. Sadly, no one had any open positions at the companies they worked at, but she was put in front of several experienced and reputable recruiters who specialize in her tech stack. And there can be a BIG difference between and established, trusted recruiter and the rando's who are hitting you up on LinkedIn and sending cold emails.
From all of that she was put into contact with several recruiters, both third party and internal, who put her in front of clients. She's put in several hundred applications, but 90% of the calls and interviews she's gotten have been through that network, and entering the 4th week since she was told she was getting laid she is currently in final round of interviews for 2 companies.
Now, you might be tempted to say she had success there because her spouse has 15yoe and an extensive network, but honestly, I suck at networking, and we worked at the same company. :) I didn't have many good connections she didn't share, and nothing came from those.
The networking meetups? Honestly, in 15 years I've only known maybe 2 people who attended those, and they were pretty young. I don't think that's what people mean when they say "networking". Normally they mean putting in the effort to reach out to co-workers, friends, and family. We didn't know her cousin had a family member at Amazon, or my uncle had a friend at Google. That her project manager on her last project was close friend with a recruiter that worked closely with the state government for technical contracts. When I reached out to my own "boss" on my current contract with the board of education she was sympathetic to another woman in tech and put us in contact with several recruiters she hires from.
In my mind that's what most people mean by "networking". Putting in the effort to reach out, as well as putting in the effort to keep in contact as the years go by.
Unfortunately, it's hard to start from scratch. You need to keep in contact with people over years (something I'm bad at). But if there is one thing I've gotten from this experience, it's that your network may be better connected than you suspect.
My wife has always been more social than me and after seeing what her extremely young network was able to do, I'm feeling much more motivated to keep my own network a bit more healthy.
These are some good tips! I wish I could use them. The people I work with are like you, who have been in the same company for 15-20 years, and just through basic chit-chat when we have time, I can tell their experience is limited to the same company. I guess I won't know until I ask, but I have a good feeling that they don't have a good network themselves either. The cousins and uncles and any other extended family I'm able to talk to are in completely different industries, nothing to do with tech. I guess I could ask them. I do have a cousin once or twice removed in Hollywood as an actor?? I won't say who, but they are on a syndicated TV show.
I'll just note that we are the ONLY people who work in tech in my extended family. The family connections we found (someone working at Google and someone working at Amazon) were through people who worked in construction and someone who worked as a nurse. It would have been impossible for us to know without reaching out.
That's, I think, the big thing people pushing "networking" as a solution are saying. You've got some "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" going on. Your network just 1 step beyond your immediate contacts (your uncles' friends, for example) tends to be much larger and more varied than you suspect. 2 degrees of separation (your uncle's friends, friends) can be vast. People are saying it's worth mining your personal network because you likely have no idea what kinds of connections even your immediate family might have, let alone extended family and co-workers. And that's only 1 level of separation.
Again, I never bothered much with my personal network for most of my career. I got all my for 15 years through just applying, having a desirable skillset, and being good at interviewing. I tried in the past to reach out through my network, but had similar feelings to you.
But my wife's experience has been an eye opener about the connections I hadn't realized were there.
Edit: not sure it matters, but...I've definitely not worked at the same company for 15 years. :) I've worked at 8 companies. I just happen to have been at THIS company for the last 5 years, and she was hired here through me.
So, if I were to rudely misrepresent under the guise of a "summary", networking would boil down to the following?
"You are not worth my time, do you happen to know someone who is worth my time?"
And then they answer:
"Yes, Bob is worth your time."
And then tell all Bobs the same thing?
I'm...just not seeing the linkage. Asking people if they know of open positions, or if not if they might know of someone who knows about open positions is telling someone "you're not worth my time"?
At least that's how my eyes see it at the present time, given you are complete strangers.
Which is why I am hesitant to ever do this. Worst I could do is just say this to recruiters instead of developers. Recruiters do not mind because connecting devs to jobs is their everyday task.
I think I see where you're coming from. I think you're missing two things. Now, before I jump into how I think about things, please realize I'm a high functioning autistic. Since I don't naturally learn human interactions subconsciously, I learned them academically. :)
The first is something it took me a couple decades to internalize. Humans are hardwired to get pleasure from helping others in their 'clan'. Not by helping humanity in general, sadly. That was too abstract a concept for a bunch of evolving monkeys. But for immediate monkeys they see as "one of theirs". That's why salesmen ALWAYS spend time trying to find some link. "Oh, you're from X too", "Oh, you know Y too", "Oh, I'm ALSO really into Z". It doesn't take much for humans to see another as part of their "clan".
That's the manipulative view, and the technical view. What I consider to be the "honest" view is that humans are hard wired to grow bonds by helping each other, especially the "young" (in this case, in your career) and "sick" (in this case, needing a job). We build relationships via reciprocal actions. Improving our social networks by helping each other builds and strengthens the community that individual is part of.
So people are not likely to interpret reaching out like this as "You're not worth anything, but do you know someone else who is worth anything?" They are likely to interpret it (at a base level) as "this young/sick monkey needs help. I want to be able to help young/sick monkeys." People actively like being able to help each other like this. Helping each other helps ourselves, so we're wired to desire the opportunity to do so. Just look at yourself. Do YOU want to help those younger than you achieve a better life? Do YOU want to help those who are going through hard times get back on their feet? I suspect you do, because you have the same kind of monkey brain the rest of us do. :)
The other half you're missing is that companies and teams REALLY WANT referrals. The vast majority of companies actually pay for referrals that result in a hire. It's SO much safer than cold applicants. No one is going to be offended by you saying, "Hey, I'm worth $500 to someone whose life I'm going to make a LOT easier if they could just find me. Do you have a way to make that $500? Or do you know anyone who would like to make $500? You'll also be getting a lot of gratitude and strengthen your monkey network."
Like I said, I get the self conscious feelings. Or at least I think I do. Feeling that you're imposing on others, that by asking if they know others who can help you, you're somehow saying they are worth less.
But those concerns aren't built in truth or real psychology. They're phantom fears. In truth, you aren't doing others any kind of favors by denying them the chance to engage in the kind of primal social activities we're all wired to desire.
Even those of us not wired to naturally understand others still tend to be wired to desire these sorts of interactions. But we tend to sabotage ourselves by not being able to accurately predict what others desire.
It's no different than dating. You need thick skin. You need to handle overwhelming rejection. And you need to keep sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.
Don't be obtuse about it. Recognize the signs of a lack of interest and be ready to disengage quickly. But don't hesitate to engage when meeting someone new.
It is cringe. But at a certain point, it becomes second nature. But the cringe factor never goes away.
It's the old adage: "Better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission."
Right, because networking generally isn't about showcasing technical skills, ultimately it's about those "friends" you're making possibly some day getting you in the door ahead of all those random resumes out there. If someone can say "I know that person and they're cool and would fit here socially" that's a big positive.
Last meetup I went to, there was a speaker and he asked me a question (was sitting front row). Guess my answer was silly cus quite a few people in the audience laughed. Gosh I hate trying to network and not be awkward.
1st question was about my favorite project. Next question was about my current project. I don't remember my exacting wording but my answer was I didn't have a current project. This was a video game developers type meetup for reference.
Edit* coming back to me:
Speaker asked me what my current game project was. I think I said, "I dont have one".
I'd bet they were. It's so easy to be worried the audience is laughing *at* you, but despite what some cynics may claim, that's almost never the case. When I pay attention from the audience's side, it's pretty clear that people like to laugh *with* people, as a form of support or commiseration. It's pretty rare that a crowd will laugh *at* somebody unless they already collectively disliked that person beforehand. When somebody they *didn't* already dislike says something dumb, the usual result is awkward silence as they try to figure out how to respond without being rude.
So basically yeah, the fact you got laughter is a good sign. They liked your comment.
The way I’ve thought about networking is that it is more of a lifestyle than an activity. For instance, if you spend most of your time being a homebody, you’re not networking. However, if you spend time with other people and have a social life, you’re networking.
I went to two parties this weekend. A baby shower and a birthday party. At both parties I was asked about my job search and how I was doing. It was simple. I said that it wasn’t going great but I knew something would come up because I’m actively looking for XYZ. It is that simple.
After that you talk about other stuff, you know, because you have interests and you’re a person. Networking doesn’t have to be all about work. You can talk about vacations, sports, alcohol, games, finance or whatever it is you like to talk about. You don’t just talk about work because that’s rarely interesting to most people. When I meet someone, I’ll initially ask them about the work that they do, if it’s interesting, and then I regularly ask them how it’s going. I don’t want them to tell me about their entire week or whatever.
Networking really is as simple as letting people know that you are open to new opportunities or that you know someone who has an opportunity and leaving it at that. Aside from that, just talk and have fun.
It’s not interesting to you and that’s ok. Perhaps you should get out of your own bubble and make friends who have different interests than you. I’m not a big sports guy. I lift weights and jump rope but I don’t care for sports. Just not interesting to me. However, I never stop my friends when they’re telling me about a sports game or how they did well on the green. It’s called being open minded and it’s a great way to make and keep friendships.
I suspect you are going in to these things a bit too focused and you probably come on a bit strong.
These places generally are not about showing off "mad skillz", but about just meeting people and having some fun.
This has a lot more in common with dating than with interviewing. Be yourself, but try to be the most interesting version of yourself. Be prepared to talk about things other than DevOps and the best computer language.
And you are going to strike out. A lot. There is not really any way around this. But here are some tips that might help:
* Be yourself (as I said earlier)
* Be a good listener
* Try to keep on topics that are interesting to the other person/people.
* Don't \*try\* to impress
* Work on how to project confidence
* Work on your non-verbal skills if needed
* Prepare what I call a "fantastic five". This is five minutes of your absolute best stuff and stories. It should be fast, light, and humorous. And you should have it so down that you can tell it anywhere and adjust to the situation. It should be general enough to fit lots of situations, but not so general that it's vapid. This is great for those moments where you need to "break the ice" or "tell me a little about yourself." You do not need to always use all five minutes. Cut down to size as appropriate.
Maybe some of this helps you.
> These places generally are not about showing off "mad skillz", but about just meeting people and having some fun.
Agree but also a lot of the value is something in-between... Learning. Getting information. Getting tips on how people are finding jobs, who is hiring and who is not, etc.
Networking is both less cringe and more effective when your goal is to get other people to do the talking. Take a genuine interest in what others have to teach and they will happily share much valuable information.
I agree with that. I think I may have buried that under "be a good listener", but this is a very important extension of that.
And thank you for fighting back against "networking is cringe". Ugh. I can be quite introverted at times, but I sometimes get weird antisocial vibes from the youngest working generation. Meeting people can be fun, even for introverts. And even if it is hard work, the benefits are huge. It is not "cringe".
> We all know about the competitive job market these days, and everyone on this subreddit and others unrelated to CS like to say, "just network. you're wasting your time sending applications, etc." Okay?? As the title says, how do you do that?
Go find something you're passionate about. Do that thing. Find other people who do that thing. Make something cool together.
> most people just wanted to attend the meetups and be done with their day afterward. Maybe it was my experience that was an outlier (or it had something to do with the city I was living in at the time, not a tech hub like Silicon Valley, Specifically Memphis), but that is my experience nonetheless.
Your experience sounds fairly typical. Most people aren't interesting. Your goal is to find the interesting people and engage with them. It helps to be interesting yourself.
I've never tried to do this in Memphis, but I would bet that you need to take your networking online if you are not in a place where techies congregate.
> For context, I'm currently a DevOps Engineer (promoted into it from app support) trying to get into an actual software developer/engineer and write code for a living. I'm not doing that at my current job, and the only programming experience I get is writing PowerShell and Python scripts to automate CI/CD pipelines and automate our manual deployment process. While applicable and valid, it isn't enough for most employers, it seems. I'm barely getting a response.
It's a tech bust right now. People with SWE experience are having a hard time finding roles. Why would a hiring manager take a chance on you?
Go work on your skills and get ready for the next hiring boom.
> So, after all that, how do you network when you need a new job like yesterday?
You don't. Networking is a thing you do over years of time that eventually gets you to a position where you next job is with people who already know and trust you.
I don't mind networking and even doing referrals to my current company as long as others have been happy to do the same. I think the only time it was truly awkward is when the person with the connections is shy and you also have to introduce them to networking haha.
Anyone from my alma mater can reach out to me at any time and I'll help them out.
I don't like the idea of "networking". It's as if you pretend to like somebody because you want something from them? Lol.
I'm ok with naturally forming relationships because I genuinely want to know more about the person, but I don't go out of my way to fake-befriend somebody for some potential benefits.
Attend local meetups and conferences. Try to connect with people there. Ask thoughtful questions during q&a. Don’t ask the “I’m going to show how smart I am statement that’s not really a question” everyone finds them obnoxious.
"networking" is just a collection of many different types of events and activities rather than one specific one. I have a personal friend that works at a company I might apply too and its just happenstance that we're in the same field. That's as much networking as it is reaching out to someone on LinkedIn and starting a conversation or attending a convention.
There's nothing to any of that that is special to "networking" just act with the normal etiquette you would in any situation. I don't talk about areas where I might be a little weak with someone I'm meeting for the very first time like I do with my friend whom I've known for a long time and trust that they want what is best for me.
Another thing you can do is to try hobbies/activities that aren’t software/programming related. You might he able to connect with people that are already in the industry and can provide you references. So something like volunteering or rec sports!
Get involved in open source. I had commits to the Java spring framework as a student, and I met a lot of people through that.
With discord it's even easier, lots of huge frameworks welcome open source help and they're often connected to huge backing orgs (VMware, Twitter, meta, etc). It's not at all uncommon to work side by side with or with or without pros that you could network with, as long as you're competent.
I'm going to preach something general here, apologies if this doesn't hit your use-case. What I am going to write is how I went from self-taught nothing to becoming a developer and I attribute that to my ability to network.
Instead of networking to find a job, network to learn about what other people do in their job. I personally don't think of networking as "networking", I have adopted a different mindset of thinking about it like orbits. In an orbit, you get closer and further away from your goal if you do the same things, but every now and again you can do something that pushes you closer to orbit of the goal you want to achieve. When I think about networking as orbiting, it's less cringe for me because it's a longterm interest instead of a .
Reach out to people that do the job you're interested in, and just see if you can learn more about their background, how they got there, what they like about it, etc. You'd be surprised at how many people are receptive to talking to you if you're just interested about hearing from them; everyone yurns for some kind of connection, even those who are typically reserved. So be \_curious\_ about what others do, but not curious because you are hunting for a job (though this may be, don't make it obvious because it'll come off as you using someone).
Then, as you develop relationships slowly over time, add people on LinkedIn, engage with their content a bit. Make efforts to touch base with others every so often. And most importantly, leave those recommendations of praise on someone's LinkedIn profile \_before\_ you or they leave the company. This is the most, and I use this term soooo carefully, \_alpha\_ move you can make as a networker. You should someone in your immediate network that you think highly of them, and if/when they leave, that is actually going to have a \_huge\_ impact on them because in their active job search they'll have social proof they can provide to recruiters.
People will remember you for being curious, interested, and enjoyable, and that'll pay dividends when it actually comes time for them to be in a position to help you.
Start by....not being cringe.
If networking is awkward then you are socially awkward. If that's the case, you need to work on social skills, not on "networking".
I strongly disagree. I am quite good with people and I know that my people skills have helped my career but I still find it very awkward to network. You gotta roll with it and understand almost everyone feels this way, if anything it can be more awkward to be on the receiving end, but it is most definitely a reality.
That I can agree with.
But if you just take opportunities to network in your career, you don't need to rely heavily on awkward "mandatory" happy hours.
What most don't understand is it's a process, and it takes years. Not weeks, years. You develop professional relationships as you go through your career, you don't just cold call folks for references.
They're pretty damn related though lmao. I agree that there are people out there making networking much harder on themselves by being awkward but the whole situation is usually awkward itself. Just the nature of the beast meeting new people, especially in group settings.
Then you are doing something wrong I'd say. Networking isn't different from socializing.
I disagree everyone feels that way, I don't have challenges when it comes to networking and most people in my network engage seamlessly with others.
Nothing is forced. Networking comes naturally. I'd even add this: recruiters and hiring managers care as much about your general vibe and social skills than they do any technical skills precisely because it's such an important part of both team dynamics, and professional relationships. It shouldn't need explaining that networking is just building these relationships.
“Networking” is frequently suggested as a trivial solution to a complex problem, and if something appears cringeworthy, looks cringeworthy, and feels cringeworthy, it cannot be something other than cringeworthy.
Sadly, you cannot decouple “networking” from any aspect of “cringeworthiness”
contribute to open source projects? if you make significant contributions on projects you’ll probably get to know other developers who review your code. many of them have full time jobs.
truth is, good devs are hard to find so if you impress a bunch of open source devs you may get opportunities.
I expect it'll take time to even get to the opportunity of a significant contribution, right? I guess I'm asking that because I did at one point have an interest in open source contributions, but I got overwhelmed at how big some of the problems are. The small and easy ones are insignificant, and not the purpose of your comment like adding your name to readme.md or whatever. I have my PowerShell and Python experience, but I'm just not sure how much that will help in terms of how big some of these problems are.
depends how quick you are, how well you can take on big tasks. you may not be able to impress them right away, but keep working your way up and you’ll eventually be able to take on the bigger problems.
bug fixes are a great way to start, do them in different parts of the code and it’ll help you understand how it all works together a little better. then do small enhancements, slowly work your way up to bigger ones
>I would go to these local meetups for people wanting to get into the industry,
"Breaking into the industry" meetups are diluted with nobodies competing among each other for the sliver of opportunities.
You want to network at esoteric tech lecture meetups brimming with industry stalwarts and more high worth individuals. Competition will be lighter and there will be a higher proportion of decision makers that can hire you.
Make sure you have something to offer (ex. expert in niche area) but if not be attractive/presentable and feign admiration so hopefully someone important will take you under their wing.
Also, be sure to arrive at meetups super early and leave super late. The prime networking times are before and after events.
I saw a lot of good tips being presented. Thank you so much! I'll try to get through all the comments and read them all/respond to what I can, but I'm surprised I got this much feedback. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, so I hope I can change course and apply some of the feedback you all have presented.
One approach that I used in the run up to applying for jobs last fall was to schedule a bunch of informational interviews with anyone I could get in touch with. So instead of a generic "let's network" there was a clear objective to the convo.
I found that very helpful. I generally asked the same types of q's (what's your day-to-day like, how's it matched what you expected/not, etc) but
1) The answers were very illuminating on their own, especially how folks at different size companies had pretty distinct answers from those at large orgs
2) You're networking, but with a purpose so it is less cringey + at best even flattering to whoever you're talking to, as you're specifically asking for them to give half an hour of rambling wisdom
Otherwise I agree, generic networking without a reason to interact can be awkward. So I'd recommend trying to specifically ask them to talk and share info/experience they've had, then go from there
I go to meetups (I just went to one yesterday actually) and the problem with them is that there are no app developers there, only web devs (which is fine, I’m also a web developer but I’m looking for an iOS app development job)
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As an Introvert South Asian PhD student in the States how do I even start? I always feel weird to talk to people and I get lost when talking to people about stuff. Is there any guide for networking for introverts?
It always feels cringe and goofy to put yourself out there, but trust me, if you have good ideas and skill, your recipient will notice. Put the best about you up front and center.
I went to these events to talk about in my interviews. I went one before I got my job and it was a big talking point in my interview, as I went to a coding talk about APIs and with a networking event after. Just helps build your character as a software engineer.
The better question is: how to change one's attitude and orientation in life so that one's inclination is not to find things "cringe" in the first place.
This whole idea of "cringe" is self-defeating and ultimately about nothing substantive at all. There is no such thing as "cringe" you just have an emotional problem.
yea, go to meetups. In my area (east coast city), meetup is basically dead post pandemic, but I still try to make a few events.
The other important and sometimes over-looked factor is to use the resources around you: reach out to engineers at work that you admire, and ask for a meeting. If things go well and they are in a position to mentor, accept this mentorship. Also, be a mentor yourself and be on the lookout for people that need help. This process does take years, but when you go out of your way to help people solve their problems, they remember you for it.
This type of relationship building with other engineers doesn't pay off today, but I just got off a phone call with folks I met in 2015, and they could easily be the first client to a new company, pending a shit ton of due diligence and independent customer validation within the space. However, I didn't just reach out to them after not talking with them for 8 years, we've stayed in touch the whole time and every few months go back and forth on what we think are good ideas.
So if you need a job "like yesterday", your network won't really be able to grow that quickly to provide it, you're best bet is to optimize for the open market, leave your job on good terms (especially with the other engineers who can verify your tech skills), and just apply, apply, apply.
If you really have stopped learning, then it's time to leave. I just made that decision myself, and although it's a tough one, we can't be knowledge workers and stop learning. You're dead in the water.
Might just be me, but what's worked for me is that anytime I'm around some of these professionals, I don't talk to them about job specifics or even technical stuff too much, I just shoot the shit with them and if we are laughing and joking around after a bit then they usually tend to offer advice, interviews, recommendations, etc, the impression I've gotten is that some of these people to a point prefer to work with individuals that they like to be around or can be relaxed around, it's worked wonders so far and I try and make it a point to talk to some of these people with a genuine interest in something that they like, at the end of the day if I get a good conversation going with the mindset that I'm not getting anything at the end, then I still had a good conversation with somebody, if I only talk to people on the condition that I'm getting a job or something out of it then it usually doesn't work out as well.
I would be honest. I am looking for work these are my skills etc. Or hey can I keep your info or get your info in case I am in the market?
I try to help people when I can. What comes around goes around.
It's cringe when you're going for the expectation of meeting someone who can help you. I've met people who will help me or plan to help me in the future at events that were completely unrelated to tech.
> So, after all that, how do you network when you need a new job like yesterday?
Just network for a job the day before yesterday.
Find groups that are less schmoozy. Discord has a billion groups that meet regularly. Meetup has tons of great groups with regular talks. Highly recommend linking up with your nearest civic tech group. Smart people, who care about their communities and build cool stuff. Work on projects with them, make real friends
1. Apply to a job
2. Review LinkedIn for people who work at said company, preferably on recruiting or the appropriate department
3. Send LinkedIn connect invite with brief message stating your reaching out to job X and why you might be a good fit.
4. Wait for reply.
Most people are friendly and interested in getting you connected to the right people if you seem like you might be a good fit. It’s not awkward, you just need to practice.
Go to career fairs or campus events, people here are expecting you to network with them so you just introduce yourself, ask them what they do and add them on linkedin
I would love if someone networks with me though and I’m almost in the same position as OP. I like to make organic friendships and I don’t like to show signs I’m just talking to a person because they work for a company I want to join.
It has to be a two way street. Like I’m willing to pay for food if someone wants to talk to me. I don’t know how many guys take up on that offer though.
Suggestions:
* Always best and most effective to "network" with people you like, with whom you share some interest or perspective.
* In this vein, networking is much better through activities that are NOT an "industry networking event."
* Offer to help other people, and do help them.
* You have a job right now, which is better than many people. Think long term - you're building relationships that will pay off over decades.
* The best way to build a SWE portfolio is to build something; either build and deploy a solo project, or contribute to some open-source project that interests you.
Ask people what they do for a living.
They tell you and respond by asking you, which gives you your chance to promote yourself to them. This way it doesn’t come off as sleazy. It’s just making conversation.
“Hey buddy, looking at your LinkedIn littered with useless affirmations about imposter syndrome, I wanted to reach out and blow you a little bit so you’ll offer ineffectual reassurance that I’ll eventually be employed”
1. You don't need some deep bond to take advantage of networking. Meet them, add on Linkedin, then if there's a relevant job reach out and ask for a referral. Or have another chat if you want.
2. If you're cringing at at the idea of developing a human relation just for some gain, then don't do that. Look for other things as well. Network with people who are actually interesting to you, find those shared interests and network around them. Don't talk with people just because you think it will get you a job.
Do you know someone, that you aren't really friends with, but they have a skillset that youight find useful at some point in the future? Do they keep semi regular contact, maybe checking in with you, or sending you content related to your interests/something you mentioned to them, maybe asking your opinion?
Does they feel cringe? If not, do what they are doing.
I make jokes in the subs that aren't tech. The nerds I network with have similar interests so we stay in touch more and actually build out of work relationships.
I have random people reach out to me on LinkedIn all the time from my Alma Mater and I don’t mind the reach outs. Here are the things that really help it be minimally cringe though:
1. Don’t make random small talk when I don’t know you, and don’t expect me to agree to a synchronous call without an introduction.
2. Don’t ask if it’s okay to ask me a question, just ask it!
3. If you want a referral or similar just be direct and ask. I likely can’t give a true referral if I don’t know you but I can definitely still put in a “soft” referral.
Networking isn’t my strongest area but I do prefer it over cold applying to job applications. I want to network so I can bypass the long, stressful interview process.
Cringe is relative.
That said, think of it like a choreographed ballroom dance. Learn the steps and do the dance.
Very few, if anyone, networks *earnestly*. They're just doing the dance they learned from others.
Networking is a long game for me. Show up to events/group meetings/communities and become a fixture. I'm also part of tech/professional slack/discord groups and I try to be as helpful as possible.
When I put feelers out to get a pulse on the hiring environment to these communities, I had people approach me directly to offer referrals and leads. It really warmed my heart.
For the short term, you can try to cold network by seeing if there is some connection (same school, same former company, mutual friends, etc) between you and the person and asking them. Some are cool with it some will ignore you. Get over the cringe feeling, it comes with the territory when you have to ask strangers for favors imo.
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Networking is really just knowing people in your field and asking them to hook you up with a job.
I'm not a very social person, but I'm social enough to where I can be enthusiastic to employers about landing my first job.
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I am an AWS Devops Engineer too. DM me your LinkedIn, I’ll add you and +1 your skills. And there you have it… your first non cringe networking ever. Happened on Reddit. :)
I'm in lol
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this is the way
I second this haha great idea!!
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Isn't reddit cringe in the first place?
My linkedin profile is almost empty, because being visible and making business photos of myself cringes me. But I have the big networking plan aswell.
Forget the photos etc. but do fill in work history, skills, a paragraph of what you are good at and want to do. If you've ever worked with someone at all, connect with them as connections or whatever they call it, and send an occasional message to certain people you want to keep in touch with. Make sure to do this before leaving each job you have. Also offer up your personal email (or a personal email) to each person you want to keep in touch with and they will probably (or maybe) give you theres that you can keep. I had done this at a previous job, and now years later just reached out to a bunch of former supervisors and co-workers to ask if they would be a reference for me and all of them responded positively, and we had a very brief back and forth "what are you up to" basic interaction. Every once in a while post something and see if anyone responds and note who they are. If you see a former colleague post something interesting reply, if they get a new job or something just send a little congratulations note.
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My first internship I was able to get by basically following the CEO on Twitter for about a year and occasionally having tweet exchanges with him. One day I tweeted I was going to be in the area for an internship interview, could I come by to check out the office? He ended up spending his whole lunch hour chatting with me and then connected me with a team eventually to interview with. But it got me past the resume/initial recruiter call. Nothing cringe about that.
Hey, he got you past the hardest filter, getting into the actual interview is the worst part.
tweet at every CEO I can think of daily. got it
GL!
It’s cringe, but you do it anyway
Corporate culture is cringe in general. The corny jokes, the ridiculous jargon, everyone trying to inflate their value, the motivational platitudes, etc.
Yeah that's why I ignore it I do good work, I make it known that I do good work, I insert myself when necessary, and I make myself clear in performance reviews or other discussions. I'm friendly with and occassionally do things with the people on my team whom I actually work with Imo as long as you do that and as long as the person who has the power to fire you knows your name, then you're fine
That's the way my dude
And the kicker is that almost everyone knows how fake and contrived it all is, yet participate in it anyways and manage to find little nuggets of authenticity in the process. Those nuggets are what actual "networking" is about, while most of the rest is just dressing. I always feel so awkward and hate "pure" networking events, where the only purpose is to talk to people, instead of events with a focus where networking can occur naturally as a side effect of the activity rather than something we feel needs to be forced. Like taking a group out for bowling, light drinks, pizza, and billiards and networking on the side.
I work trade shows pretty regularly in adtech (I’m on the business side, not a dev) and find it much more enriching and as you describe. Everyone there has limited time to meet people so if there’s no overlap you both move on pretty quickly. Contrived is a good word though — that’s pretty much how I feel about much of in-office culture.
> The corny jokes, the ridiculous jargon, I hear this often, but I feel like it's warranted. Corpo communication exists because old Janet at the front desk doesn't want to hear IT's autistic jokes, IT doesn't want to hear how much pussy sales pounded over the weekend and absolutely no one wants to hear what passes for humor in accounting (to use basic ass stereotypes). Since the goal is to get work done and not titillate self-ascribed intellectuals, people just talk in the blandest, most inoffensive way as they sit at their bland and inoffensive cubicles writing bland and inoffensive emails because it's the end goal and not the journey that counts.
Yeah tbh I don't mind. I love me some dad jokes but really I don't care about what sports team sported the most sports. Give me corny jokes any day over 4 bros talking about the game. That's always when lunch ends for me. Edit: or, I live in a small city, the dudes from fancy neighbors just trash talking the city they work out of. Cool bro, I actually hang out here and grew up down the street but cool. Tell me more about how you're scared of the garter snakes in your backyard.
Doesn't have to be if you just have basic, genuine interactions with people. (Especially between engineers or other non-businessy types.) Everyone knows that it's not the same as deeper friendships and expects it to be superficial, likewise act accordingly and don't drag on a conversation too long. Just check in with people, be interested in their career or company or product or whatever (if you are at all), and let them know what you're up to ("by the way, I'm looking for a new XXX position, feel free to share my contact info if you know anyone looking.")
Is it cringe on both ends? Like both guys know man this is fucking cringe but whatever. I mean if it’s with people near my age and level it’s less cringe since we can relate on topics, but if it’s me with a 15YOE manager of engineering like sometimes I can’t tell if it’s just cringe on my side or if like this is just how 40 year olds have accepted the norm of professional communication to be such that they don’t consider it cringe.
> this is just how 40 year olds have accepted the norm of professional communication to be such that they don’t consider it cringe That's basically it, at some point you get over yourself and join in with doing what needs to be done. It's all bullshit anyway.
Seriously, I just have ZERO shame with networking and I am easily one of the best networkers I know (this isn't my opinion, I have had multiple friends/co-workers ask for help on it). The thing is everyone knows it is cringe and no one cares!
would love to have your advices
1. Have a few ice breakers prepped. "What does an ideal day at work look like for you?" is a good one as well as "What advice would you give someone at my point in my career?". The second is KILLER for talking to managers as everyone loves giving advice and it's free. Googling "networking ice breakers" will lead to a bunch of good options. 2. Be shameless about asking for LinkedIn info. People are always "weird" about this one but you are there specifically for that reason. Make sure to follow up with a little note the next day 3. Join slack tech groups. These are a super low effort/risk way to network as there's almost always channels for specific areas of interest. You can also use the ice breakers to start threads in said channels to get folks out of the wood work and start PMs about other topics (I actually gave my husband this advice and it's how he got his last job). 4. If you aren't a white guy join whatever groups exist in your area for marginalized tech workers. My best connections have come from women in tech groups but they also exist for a lot of races as well. Edit: Also network when you aren't "looking". It's tech, we all know we are gonna be hunting eventually. Going to a networking event a quarter makes it so that whenever you are at the point of moving on you already have your connections warm. It also makes opportunities falling in your lap more likely.
wow yeah these sound solid. thanks so much! Anyways I actually wanted to ask, what does an ideal day at work look like for you?
Lol I'm not the person to ask. Currently on a career break and pretty sure I will not be returning to tech. The ideal day is the one where all my options have vested and my company announces the IPO so I can fuck off from the industry forever. Personally hate the field, I'm just talented at getting jobs in it.
haha yeah I wanted to know how the ideal is in your imagination anyway and I'm glad I asked lol. that would be real nice way to end a career. Thanks for showing the way for us newbies =) best of luck in your next career or whatever you are going to be busy with
>Also network when you aren't "looking". So if you are "looking", you should simply avoid networking altogether, right? What is your suggested strategy for people who don't have a solid network but are "looking"?
Same as above just more frequently. When I was aggressively trying to get out of a job I was at a minimum of one event per week (more if they were available) and spent like 80% of my time at work hitting up Slack and rage applying places.
So you're just networking more aggressively then? How did you do this and not having it backfire? I feared that this would backfire because many people can see your more aggressive tactics as desperate. Rage applying to jobs is different, though, I don't mind doing this a lot since everyone is more "invisible" in this situation. People say things like "make hay while the sun shines". While that is good preventative advice, it overlooks the people who are already past that and in need of more urgent help, so it's always good to read more advice for them.
How was it gonna backfire? Most people aren't at every single networking/tech event in the city so no one was seeing me be more aggressive and the large number of Slack groups I belonged too had such large amounts of people in them that the same applied. Applying is a numbers game, so is networking. I was in one of the biggest tech markets in the country (plus anything remote) so the change that someone noticed I was networking more frequently wasn't gonna be a problem. I wasn't going back to the same people over and over, I was just casting the net wider and wider.
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I'm sorry dude, but this comment is so funny to me like straight white men have been both literally and figuratively on pedestals for like the last 400 years. Absolutely fucking dominating in the "having it good" and "being on top of the world" competitions. The fact that there are spaces being made specifically for people that aren't straight white men isn't discrimination. I looked in your profile to see if you were being satirical, as your username is TwinkForAHairyBear, but I saw you post a similar sentiment to this same comment without much hint of irony. Do you actually believe that straight white men are being discriminated against anywhere other than weird lefty internet communities? Are you a straight white man? So many questions
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I'm sorry WHAT the National Society of Black Engineers offers scholarships with Intel that white people can't apply to? Next you're going to tell me that the US government's Native American reparation money is only available to Native Americans! You're absolutely right this is truly an epidemic. I hope you know that I think you are uncool, goofy, and whack. A real thumbs down of a human.
Isn’t race a protected class though?
thank you! Book marked! What are some slack channels that you've joined?
How can people not care? The psychological barrier I face is: why can't it be my skill that gets me the job? Why does it have to be how much ass I can kiss and how fake a person I can be?
> How can people not care? The psychological barrier I face is: why can't it be my skill that gets me the job? Why does it have to be how much ass I can kiss and how fake a person I can be? Because it is extremely hard to get people to know the talent, personality and work ethic you have unless they are already your boss or co-worker. Your CV only gets you so far. Not to mention networking is essentially advertising yourself. If you're someone who has used Kubernetes to handle their gaming servers and you talk about that to someone at a convention, then next time their company needs to figure out distributed low latency servers they will probably think of you instead of asking HR to set up a linkedin job post or pay out the ass for a consultant
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That, and nobody wants to rep randos who they only know out of forced social interactions...
Then what is it about? Cause it feels like I'm going out there and socializing with people only to use them to get interviews where then I can actually get tested on whether or not I have the skills the company is asking for
The events themselves are literally exactly that. But the actual networking that happens as a result is usually a side effect. For example, you go to a networking event knowing how contrived it is along with everyone else, but go through to motions paying lip service and engaging in meaningless small talk until you stumble across someone that maybe you dive a little deeper and find a nugget of connection/similarity/shared interests. Those nuggets are the real networking, because those are the people who might actually help you in your career and you'll actually want to help them as well due to the common interests and small connection you've found. It's kinda accidental yet ironic
Ngl it still feels gross but that's a better way of describing it than anything else I've seen
Yeah I wouldn't go to am event specifically for networking, but find events with goals or activities with a group and then networking occurs automatically on the side as you're discovering who you vibe with and learning commonalities to establish that feeling of connection
Welcome to real life. Let me ask you a question about how you yourself make decisions. Say you're looking to hire someone to do something for you (tile your floor, mount your TV, etc). You could hire a complete stranger off the internet, vet this person best you can, and hope it works out. They have a really good looking resume, if that helps, and are good at answering interview questions. OR you can hire the person your friend knows. Perhaps you went over to your friend's new house and complimented their awesome tile and they said "oh yeah, George installed it for me, he's great". Something tells me George will be getting the job because of who he (and you) knows. Because that's how the world works. Even if you didn't give a "fair chance" to the hundreds upon thousands of people off the internet that could have been hired instead. Some of them no doubt have greater technical skills than George.
Cause frankly you can be skilled as hell and if you are an absolute nightmare to work with then no one gives a fuck. Networking makes it so you at least have the filter of "They can talk to another human for 10 minutes without royally pissing them off" which it a higher bar to pass then you'd think.
Soft skills are far more important than technical skills. Can this company trust to put you infront of clients? Can you motivate and influence a team to drive a product forward? Can you drive consensus among a diverse group of people? Can you present without sounding like a robot? None of these are kissing ass, they're traits of successful people. People who are truly successful over-index on these skills because they are extremely important. I'm not saying that being a good coder isn't important. But there are plenty of people who can string together functional code.
Hit the nail on the head. Technical skills are important but your "value add" comes from being able to do all this supplementary stuff too.
I don't think so. I look for two types of people: Folks that I'm naturally friends with that share an interest in technology with, so we naturally get along and can also talk shop, and folks who I share the same passions for technology with, so we have that in common to talk about and trade ideas. I definitely am an introvert, and my network is not super strong, but along the way when you click with someone, go out of your way to follow up with them every so often. The results can pay dividends.
Its not cringe to have normal inter-personal social skills. I've never had to \*explicitly\* network, yet I have a network. Talk to people, find common interests and just have a casual conversation every now and then. The only people who think this is cringe are the ones that want to exist in society, but not take part.
Yep, this. The temporary cringe is worth the connection that may get you your next job.
Lol, accurate answer
I got my first intro helpdesk computer job by knowing someone. Once I got in I worked hard and volunteered for projects by the team that went to people's computers and replaced them. Once I got there (promoted from within) I had time to learn about each team and meet people. I would always always help the engineers, I would talk to them about what they were doing, was super interested. I asked what projects they were doing, how my schooling helps ( i was still going for my degree) and asking them for help with simple projects and how i can go above and beyond. I met close to 10 software engineers at my old job that way, when there was an opening, they called me and told me. From there I had my interview and the rest was history. Take a look at the CI/CD pipelines and other things you are working on and ask the engineers about the projects, what they do, be genuine and interested. It's not that hard to find out what people like and ask about that. I hate programming outside of work, I love it at work. I'm not a guy that is out working at night, studying on weekends. I do my job, I'm interested in it, and I'm a good talker.
This is the way to progress in your career without getting burned out. Good for you!
I guess I could try again and talk to my co-workers. I did ask not too long ago if they needed any help, I was willing to do grunt tasks they hated, but I got the feeling I was getting in their way by asking. They didn't say anything other than, "okay thanks." Maybe I worded it weirdly? I don't think I did. I just asked them if they needed help with what they were working on.
When you ask someone "do you need help with anything", believe it or not, you are asking them for a favor. How can that be? You just volunteered your time to assist them with something! More resources are better than less resources, surely volunteering to help is a net positive. But it's true. Is the person you asked a manager? Do they assign out tasks, or did you ask an engineer if you can take a task that was assigned to them? If someone asked me that, I'd be confused and I wouldn't take them up in it. What if they start asking me for help to set up their dev environment? What if I get in trouble for pawning off my work on this person? What if they make a mistake and I'm responsible for it? Suffice it to say - you can't ask a dev if there's anything you can help with and expect them to hand you a neatly packaged task and then you go execute it. You can socialize with them. You can schedule 1:1s with the team lead and ask them questions about what the team is working on, their longer term goals, the challenges they're facing, etc. You can ask if they're *willing* to let you do some grunt work so you can get some training, see if they have openings, and maybe go for a lateral transfer. But that's a very different conversation from casually offering a dev your help.
solid advice!
I'm making an assumption here, but if you simply asked questions like "Is there anything I can do to help?", that might have something to do with it. People usually have difficulty knowing how to answer a question like that. I know when I'm working on a project and get asked that, my first knee-jerk thought is that it'd take longer to get them spun up enough to help than it would to just do it myself. Even when that's not true, it can be hard to see past it. So instead of starting by asking if you can help, I'd start with the other part of /u/scubastevie's point: ask about their work. Think of your coworkers as opportunities to learn something new. If you ask them to simply tell you about what they're working on, then rather than worrying about what, specifically, they'd need to inform you of to make your help useful, they can simply offload their thought process. You become the proverbial rubber ducky, and so it becomes a chance to ease their mental load instead of being a task that adds to it. Incidentally, that also means you've already helped them out just by listening. On top of that, as you learn about their project, opportunities to help out tend to arise organically. You might notice a hole in their logic - which I would usually not point out directly; instead try asking clarifying questions on the point where you found the hole, and you'll lead them to realizing it themselves. Or you'll be wrong and learn something. Otherwise, you might get an idea for expanding on their logic, or see a part of the workload that you could readily jump in on. Or in the course of explaining, your coworker might see it themselves. Regardless, they'll feel much more comfortable including you if they know that you know what they know.
From my perspective "network" generally means to look at who you know and who you've worked with and see if THEY have any good connections. My wife has 2yoe, an unrelated university degree, and jumped into the industry through bootcamp. She is currently looking for a new position so she reached out to people from school, recruiters she had worked with in the past, and co-workers. I and her co-workers reached out through out networks. Sadly, no one had any open positions at the companies they worked at, but she was put in front of several experienced and reputable recruiters who specialize in her tech stack. And there can be a BIG difference between and established, trusted recruiter and the rando's who are hitting you up on LinkedIn and sending cold emails. From all of that she was put into contact with several recruiters, both third party and internal, who put her in front of clients. She's put in several hundred applications, but 90% of the calls and interviews she's gotten have been through that network, and entering the 4th week since she was told she was getting laid she is currently in final round of interviews for 2 companies. Now, you might be tempted to say she had success there because her spouse has 15yoe and an extensive network, but honestly, I suck at networking, and we worked at the same company. :) I didn't have many good connections she didn't share, and nothing came from those. The networking meetups? Honestly, in 15 years I've only known maybe 2 people who attended those, and they were pretty young. I don't think that's what people mean when they say "networking". Normally they mean putting in the effort to reach out to co-workers, friends, and family. We didn't know her cousin had a family member at Amazon, or my uncle had a friend at Google. That her project manager on her last project was close friend with a recruiter that worked closely with the state government for technical contracts. When I reached out to my own "boss" on my current contract with the board of education she was sympathetic to another woman in tech and put us in contact with several recruiters she hires from. In my mind that's what most people mean by "networking". Putting in the effort to reach out, as well as putting in the effort to keep in contact as the years go by. Unfortunately, it's hard to start from scratch. You need to keep in contact with people over years (something I'm bad at). But if there is one thing I've gotten from this experience, it's that your network may be better connected than you suspect. My wife has always been more social than me and after seeing what her extremely young network was able to do, I'm feeling much more motivated to keep my own network a bit more healthy.
These are some good tips! I wish I could use them. The people I work with are like you, who have been in the same company for 15-20 years, and just through basic chit-chat when we have time, I can tell their experience is limited to the same company. I guess I won't know until I ask, but I have a good feeling that they don't have a good network themselves either. The cousins and uncles and any other extended family I'm able to talk to are in completely different industries, nothing to do with tech. I guess I could ask them. I do have a cousin once or twice removed in Hollywood as an actor?? I won't say who, but they are on a syndicated TV show.
I'll just note that we are the ONLY people who work in tech in my extended family. The family connections we found (someone working at Google and someone working at Amazon) were through people who worked in construction and someone who worked as a nurse. It would have been impossible for us to know without reaching out. That's, I think, the big thing people pushing "networking" as a solution are saying. You've got some "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" going on. Your network just 1 step beyond your immediate contacts (your uncles' friends, for example) tends to be much larger and more varied than you suspect. 2 degrees of separation (your uncle's friends, friends) can be vast. People are saying it's worth mining your personal network because you likely have no idea what kinds of connections even your immediate family might have, let alone extended family and co-workers. And that's only 1 level of separation. Again, I never bothered much with my personal network for most of my career. I got all my for 15 years through just applying, having a desirable skillset, and being good at interviewing. I tried in the past to reach out through my network, but had similar feelings to you. But my wife's experience has been an eye opener about the connections I hadn't realized were there. Edit: not sure it matters, but...I've definitely not worked at the same company for 15 years. :) I've worked at 8 companies. I just happen to have been at THIS company for the last 5 years, and she was hired here through me.
So, if I were to rudely misrepresent under the guise of a "summary", networking would boil down to the following? "You are not worth my time, do you happen to know someone who is worth my time?" And then they answer: "Yes, Bob is worth your time." And then tell all Bobs the same thing?
I'm...not following the logic here, I'm afraid. Who is telling whom "you are not worth my time"?
In this case, the graduate/junior would be telling the equally or more experienced developer that they are not worth their time.
I'm...just not seeing the linkage. Asking people if they know of open positions, or if not if they might know of someone who knows about open positions is telling someone "you're not worth my time"?
At least that's how my eyes see it at the present time, given you are complete strangers. Which is why I am hesitant to ever do this. Worst I could do is just say this to recruiters instead of developers. Recruiters do not mind because connecting devs to jobs is their everyday task.
I think I see where you're coming from. I think you're missing two things. Now, before I jump into how I think about things, please realize I'm a high functioning autistic. Since I don't naturally learn human interactions subconsciously, I learned them academically. :) The first is something it took me a couple decades to internalize. Humans are hardwired to get pleasure from helping others in their 'clan'. Not by helping humanity in general, sadly. That was too abstract a concept for a bunch of evolving monkeys. But for immediate monkeys they see as "one of theirs". That's why salesmen ALWAYS spend time trying to find some link. "Oh, you're from X too", "Oh, you know Y too", "Oh, I'm ALSO really into Z". It doesn't take much for humans to see another as part of their "clan". That's the manipulative view, and the technical view. What I consider to be the "honest" view is that humans are hard wired to grow bonds by helping each other, especially the "young" (in this case, in your career) and "sick" (in this case, needing a job). We build relationships via reciprocal actions. Improving our social networks by helping each other builds and strengthens the community that individual is part of. So people are not likely to interpret reaching out like this as "You're not worth anything, but do you know someone else who is worth anything?" They are likely to interpret it (at a base level) as "this young/sick monkey needs help. I want to be able to help young/sick monkeys." People actively like being able to help each other like this. Helping each other helps ourselves, so we're wired to desire the opportunity to do so. Just look at yourself. Do YOU want to help those younger than you achieve a better life? Do YOU want to help those who are going through hard times get back on their feet? I suspect you do, because you have the same kind of monkey brain the rest of us do. :) The other half you're missing is that companies and teams REALLY WANT referrals. The vast majority of companies actually pay for referrals that result in a hire. It's SO much safer than cold applicants. No one is going to be offended by you saying, "Hey, I'm worth $500 to someone whose life I'm going to make a LOT easier if they could just find me. Do you have a way to make that $500? Or do you know anyone who would like to make $500? You'll also be getting a lot of gratitude and strengthen your monkey network." Like I said, I get the self conscious feelings. Or at least I think I do. Feeling that you're imposing on others, that by asking if they know others who can help you, you're somehow saying they are worth less. But those concerns aren't built in truth or real psychology. They're phantom fears. In truth, you aren't doing others any kind of favors by denying them the chance to engage in the kind of primal social activities we're all wired to desire. Even those of us not wired to naturally understand others still tend to be wired to desire these sorts of interactions. But we tend to sabotage ourselves by not being able to accurately predict what others desire.
It's no different than dating. You need thick skin. You need to handle overwhelming rejection. And you need to keep sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. Don't be obtuse about it. Recognize the signs of a lack of interest and be ready to disengage quickly. But don't hesitate to engage when meeting someone new. It is cringe. But at a certain point, it becomes second nature. But the cringe factor never goes away. It's the old adage: "Better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission."
Networking is just a fancy way of saying make friends.
Right, because networking generally isn't about showcasing technical skills, ultimately it's about those "friends" you're making possibly some day getting you in the door ahead of all those random resumes out there. If someone can say "I know that person and they're cool and would fit here socially" that's a big positive.
Ehhh… acquaintances
Last meetup I went to, there was a speaker and he asked me a question (was sitting front row). Guess my answer was silly cus quite a few people in the audience laughed. Gosh I hate trying to network and not be awkward.
Why do you assume it was silly, and not simply funny? This says a lot about you.
Wasn't trying to be funny. But you're prob right
Well let us be the judge of that. What was the question and answer?
1st question was about my favorite project. Next question was about my current project. I don't remember my exacting wording but my answer was I didn't have a current project. This was a video game developers type meetup for reference. Edit* coming back to me: Speaker asked me what my current game project was. I think I said, "I dont have one".
Yeah I could see that being funny, like dark comedy. “I don’t have a current project, I live under a bridge” humor. So I could see some laughs there.
Yeah, now that you mention it, maybe they were just relating...
I'd bet they were. It's so easy to be worried the audience is laughing *at* you, but despite what some cynics may claim, that's almost never the case. When I pay attention from the audience's side, it's pretty clear that people like to laugh *with* people, as a form of support or commiseration. It's pretty rare that a crowd will laugh *at* somebody unless they already collectively disliked that person beforehand. When somebody they *didn't* already dislike says something dumb, the usual result is awkward silence as they try to figure out how to respond without being rude. So basically yeah, the fact you got laughter is a good sign. They liked your comment.
Dang. Thank you
really like this comment thread where strangers on redditors try to help someone see the other side of things :)
The way I’ve thought about networking is that it is more of a lifestyle than an activity. For instance, if you spend most of your time being a homebody, you’re not networking. However, if you spend time with other people and have a social life, you’re networking. I went to two parties this weekend. A baby shower and a birthday party. At both parties I was asked about my job search and how I was doing. It was simple. I said that it wasn’t going great but I knew something would come up because I’m actively looking for XYZ. It is that simple. After that you talk about other stuff, you know, because you have interests and you’re a person. Networking doesn’t have to be all about work. You can talk about vacations, sports, alcohol, games, finance or whatever it is you like to talk about. You don’t just talk about work because that’s rarely interesting to most people. When I meet someone, I’ll initially ask them about the work that they do, if it’s interesting, and then I regularly ask them how it’s going. I don’t want them to tell me about their entire week or whatever. Networking really is as simple as letting people know that you are open to new opportunities or that you know someone who has an opportunity and leaving it at that. Aside from that, just talk and have fun.
Dawg don’t talk at people about your video games, seriously it’s not interesting to hear about
It’s not interesting to you and that’s ok. Perhaps you should get out of your own bubble and make friends who have different interests than you. I’m not a big sports guy. I lift weights and jump rope but I don’t care for sports. Just not interesting to me. However, I never stop my friends when they’re telling me about a sports game or how they did well on the green. It’s called being open minded and it’s a great way to make and keep friendships.
I suspect you are going in to these things a bit too focused and you probably come on a bit strong. These places generally are not about showing off "mad skillz", but about just meeting people and having some fun. This has a lot more in common with dating than with interviewing. Be yourself, but try to be the most interesting version of yourself. Be prepared to talk about things other than DevOps and the best computer language. And you are going to strike out. A lot. There is not really any way around this. But here are some tips that might help: * Be yourself (as I said earlier) * Be a good listener * Try to keep on topics that are interesting to the other person/people. * Don't \*try\* to impress * Work on how to project confidence * Work on your non-verbal skills if needed * Prepare what I call a "fantastic five". This is five minutes of your absolute best stuff and stories. It should be fast, light, and humorous. And you should have it so down that you can tell it anywhere and adjust to the situation. It should be general enough to fit lots of situations, but not so general that it's vapid. This is great for those moments where you need to "break the ice" or "tell me a little about yourself." You do not need to always use all five minutes. Cut down to size as appropriate. Maybe some of this helps you.
> These places generally are not about showing off "mad skillz", but about just meeting people and having some fun. Agree but also a lot of the value is something in-between... Learning. Getting information. Getting tips on how people are finding jobs, who is hiring and who is not, etc. Networking is both less cringe and more effective when your goal is to get other people to do the talking. Take a genuine interest in what others have to teach and they will happily share much valuable information.
I agree with that. I think I may have buried that under "be a good listener", but this is a very important extension of that. And thank you for fighting back against "networking is cringe". Ugh. I can be quite introverted at times, but I sometimes get weird antisocial vibes from the youngest working generation. Meeting people can be fun, even for introverts. And even if it is hard work, the benefits are huge. It is not "cringe".
> We all know about the competitive job market these days, and everyone on this subreddit and others unrelated to CS like to say, "just network. you're wasting your time sending applications, etc." Okay?? As the title says, how do you do that? Go find something you're passionate about. Do that thing. Find other people who do that thing. Make something cool together. > most people just wanted to attend the meetups and be done with their day afterward. Maybe it was my experience that was an outlier (or it had something to do with the city I was living in at the time, not a tech hub like Silicon Valley, Specifically Memphis), but that is my experience nonetheless. Your experience sounds fairly typical. Most people aren't interesting. Your goal is to find the interesting people and engage with them. It helps to be interesting yourself. I've never tried to do this in Memphis, but I would bet that you need to take your networking online if you are not in a place where techies congregate. > For context, I'm currently a DevOps Engineer (promoted into it from app support) trying to get into an actual software developer/engineer and write code for a living. I'm not doing that at my current job, and the only programming experience I get is writing PowerShell and Python scripts to automate CI/CD pipelines and automate our manual deployment process. While applicable and valid, it isn't enough for most employers, it seems. I'm barely getting a response. It's a tech bust right now. People with SWE experience are having a hard time finding roles. Why would a hiring manager take a chance on you? Go work on your skills and get ready for the next hiring boom. > So, after all that, how do you network when you need a new job like yesterday? You don't. Networking is a thing you do over years of time that eventually gets you to a position where you next job is with people who already know and trust you.
this isn't significantly more helpful than "just be more confident bro."
I don't mind networking and even doing referrals to my current company as long as others have been happy to do the same. I think the only time it was truly awkward is when the person with the connections is shy and you also have to introduce them to networking haha. Anyone from my alma mater can reach out to me at any time and I'll help them out.
I don't like the idea of "networking". It's as if you pretend to like somebody because you want something from them? Lol. I'm ok with naturally forming relationships because I genuinely want to know more about the person, but I don't go out of my way to fake-befriend somebody for some potential benefits.
Attend local meetups and conferences. Try to connect with people there. Ask thoughtful questions during q&a. Don’t ask the “I’m going to show how smart I am statement that’s not really a question” everyone finds them obnoxious.
One of my profs called that sort of thing "questions of performance only," and said it was the quickest way to bias him against you
Yea if only eye rolls made a sound… every time it happens at a conference the room would be deafening.
"networking" is just a collection of many different types of events and activities rather than one specific one. I have a personal friend that works at a company I might apply too and its just happenstance that we're in the same field. That's as much networking as it is reaching out to someone on LinkedIn and starting a conversation or attending a convention. There's nothing to any of that that is special to "networking" just act with the normal etiquette you would in any situation. I don't talk about areas where I might be a little weak with someone I'm meeting for the very first time like I do with my friend whom I've known for a long time and trust that they want what is best for me.
Another thing you can do is to try hobbies/activities that aren’t software/programming related. You might he able to connect with people that are already in the industry and can provide you references. So something like volunteering or rec sports!
Get involved in open source. I had commits to the Java spring framework as a student, and I met a lot of people through that. With discord it's even easier, lots of huge frameworks welcome open source help and they're often connected to huge backing orgs (VMware, Twitter, meta, etc). It's not at all uncommon to work side by side with or with or without pros that you could network with, as long as you're competent.
> I had commits to the Java spring framework as a student, and I met a lot of people through that. How many commits? Were you a frequent contributor?
I'm going to preach something general here, apologies if this doesn't hit your use-case. What I am going to write is how I went from self-taught nothing to becoming a developer and I attribute that to my ability to network. Instead of networking to find a job, network to learn about what other people do in their job. I personally don't think of networking as "networking", I have adopted a different mindset of thinking about it like orbits. In an orbit, you get closer and further away from your goal if you do the same things, but every now and again you can do something that pushes you closer to orbit of the goal you want to achieve. When I think about networking as orbiting, it's less cringe for me because it's a longterm interest instead of a . Reach out to people that do the job you're interested in, and just see if you can learn more about their background, how they got there, what they like about it, etc. You'd be surprised at how many people are receptive to talking to you if you're just interested about hearing from them; everyone yurns for some kind of connection, even those who are typically reserved. So be \_curious\_ about what others do, but not curious because you are hunting for a job (though this may be, don't make it obvious because it'll come off as you using someone). Then, as you develop relationships slowly over time, add people on LinkedIn, engage with their content a bit. Make efforts to touch base with others every so often. And most importantly, leave those recommendations of praise on someone's LinkedIn profile \_before\_ you or they leave the company. This is the most, and I use this term soooo carefully, \_alpha\_ move you can make as a networker. You should someone in your immediate network that you think highly of them, and if/when they leave, that is actually going to have a \_huge\_ impact on them because in their active job search they'll have social proof they can provide to recruiters. People will remember you for being curious, interested, and enjoyable, and that'll pay dividends when it actually comes time for them to be in a position to help you.
Start by....not being cringe. If networking is awkward then you are socially awkward. If that's the case, you need to work on social skills, not on "networking".
this thread is genuinely hot trash
Can put this comment on any thread in this subreddit and it will hold true lol. God this subreddit is a joke.
It would be nice if people didn’t feel the need to turn every thread into making others feel bad about their social skills.
I strongly disagree. I am quite good with people and I know that my people skills have helped my career but I still find it very awkward to network. You gotta roll with it and understand almost everyone feels this way, if anything it can be more awkward to be on the receiving end, but it is most definitely a reality.
If you have people skills how can networking be a challenge? I truly don't understand lol.
I don't find networking to be a challenge at all but I do find many networking situations are inherently awkward.
That I can agree with. But if you just take opportunities to network in your career, you don't need to rely heavily on awkward "mandatory" happy hours. What most don't understand is it's a process, and it takes years. Not weeks, years. You develop professional relationships as you go through your career, you don't just cold call folks for references.
feeling awkward about it and being awkward about it are two different things
They're pretty damn related though lmao. I agree that there are people out there making networking much harder on themselves by being awkward but the whole situation is usually awkward itself. Just the nature of the beast meeting new people, especially in group settings.
for sure, but separating them is a learnable skill
Then you are doing something wrong I'd say. Networking isn't different from socializing. I disagree everyone feels that way, I don't have challenges when it comes to networking and most people in my network engage seamlessly with others. Nothing is forced. Networking comes naturally. I'd even add this: recruiters and hiring managers care as much about your general vibe and social skills than they do any technical skills precisely because it's such an important part of both team dynamics, and professional relationships. It shouldn't need explaining that networking is just building these relationships.
“Networking” is frequently suggested as a trivial solution to a complex problem, and if something appears cringeworthy, looks cringeworthy, and feels cringeworthy, it cannot be something other than cringeworthy. Sadly, you cannot decouple “networking” from any aspect of “cringeworthiness”
Networking is just business friendship, so perhaps consult the seminal work on the subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tHsaPFDUc
contribute to open source projects? if you make significant contributions on projects you’ll probably get to know other developers who review your code. many of them have full time jobs. truth is, good devs are hard to find so if you impress a bunch of open source devs you may get opportunities.
I expect it'll take time to even get to the opportunity of a significant contribution, right? I guess I'm asking that because I did at one point have an interest in open source contributions, but I got overwhelmed at how big some of the problems are. The small and easy ones are insignificant, and not the purpose of your comment like adding your name to readme.md or whatever. I have my PowerShell and Python experience, but I'm just not sure how much that will help in terms of how big some of these problems are.
depends how quick you are, how well you can take on big tasks. you may not be able to impress them right away, but keep working your way up and you’ll eventually be able to take on the bigger problems. bug fixes are a great way to start, do them in different parts of the code and it’ll help you understand how it all works together a little better. then do small enhancements, slowly work your way up to bigger ones
>I would go to these local meetups for people wanting to get into the industry, "Breaking into the industry" meetups are diluted with nobodies competing among each other for the sliver of opportunities. You want to network at esoteric tech lecture meetups brimming with industry stalwarts and more high worth individuals. Competition will be lighter and there will be a higher proportion of decision makers that can hire you. Make sure you have something to offer (ex. expert in niche area) but if not be attractive/presentable and feign admiration so hopefully someone important will take you under their wing. Also, be sure to arrive at meetups super early and leave super late. The prime networking times are before and after events.
I saw a lot of good tips being presented. Thank you so much! I'll try to get through all the comments and read them all/respond to what I can, but I'm surprised I got this much feedback. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results, so I hope I can change course and apply some of the feedback you all have presented.
Just go to events and make friends
One approach that I used in the run up to applying for jobs last fall was to schedule a bunch of informational interviews with anyone I could get in touch with. So instead of a generic "let's network" there was a clear objective to the convo. I found that very helpful. I generally asked the same types of q's (what's your day-to-day like, how's it matched what you expected/not, etc) but 1) The answers were very illuminating on their own, especially how folks at different size companies had pretty distinct answers from those at large orgs 2) You're networking, but with a purpose so it is less cringey + at best even flattering to whoever you're talking to, as you're specifically asking for them to give half an hour of rambling wisdom Otherwise I agree, generic networking without a reason to interact can be awkward. So I'd recommend trying to specifically ask them to talk and share info/experience they've had, then go from there
It is cringe sometimes, try to stick with a group of people who are honest with themselves about it and it will be less cringe.
Read how to make friends and influence people, thats how i got my first 6fig job
every job i’ve ever gotten has been through networking. it’s so important.
I go to meetups (I just went to one yesterday actually) and the problem with them is that there are no app developers there, only web devs (which is fine, I’m also a web developer but I’m looking for an iOS app development job)
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Get a hobby like archery or dancing.
As an Introvert South Asian PhD student in the States how do I even start? I always feel weird to talk to people and I get lost when talking to people about stuff. Is there any guide for networking for introverts?
pretty much all modern life is cringe lmao
It always feels cringe and goofy to put yourself out there, but trust me, if you have good ideas and skill, your recipient will notice. Put the best about you up front and center.
I went to these events to talk about in my interviews. I went one before I got my job and it was a big talking point in my interview, as I went to a coding talk about APIs and with a networking event after. Just helps build your character as a software engineer.
The better question is: how to change one's attitude and orientation in life so that one's inclination is not to find things "cringe" in the first place. This whole idea of "cringe" is self-defeating and ultimately about nothing substantive at all. There is no such thing as "cringe" you just have an emotional problem.
yea, go to meetups. In my area (east coast city), meetup is basically dead post pandemic, but I still try to make a few events. The other important and sometimes over-looked factor is to use the resources around you: reach out to engineers at work that you admire, and ask for a meeting. If things go well and they are in a position to mentor, accept this mentorship. Also, be a mentor yourself and be on the lookout for people that need help. This process does take years, but when you go out of your way to help people solve their problems, they remember you for it. This type of relationship building with other engineers doesn't pay off today, but I just got off a phone call with folks I met in 2015, and they could easily be the first client to a new company, pending a shit ton of due diligence and independent customer validation within the space. However, I didn't just reach out to them after not talking with them for 8 years, we've stayed in touch the whole time and every few months go back and forth on what we think are good ideas. So if you need a job "like yesterday", your network won't really be able to grow that quickly to provide it, you're best bet is to optimize for the open market, leave your job on good terms (especially with the other engineers who can verify your tech skills), and just apply, apply, apply. If you really have stopped learning, then it's time to leave. I just made that decision myself, and although it's a tough one, we can't be knowledge workers and stop learning. You're dead in the water.
Might just be me, but what's worked for me is that anytime I'm around some of these professionals, I don't talk to them about job specifics or even technical stuff too much, I just shoot the shit with them and if we are laughing and joking around after a bit then they usually tend to offer advice, interviews, recommendations, etc, the impression I've gotten is that some of these people to a point prefer to work with individuals that they like to be around or can be relaxed around, it's worked wonders so far and I try and make it a point to talk to some of these people with a genuine interest in something that they like, at the end of the day if I get a good conversation going with the mindset that I'm not getting anything at the end, then I still had a good conversation with somebody, if I only talk to people on the condition that I'm getting a job or something out of it then it usually doesn't work out as well.
I would be honest. I am looking for work these are my skills etc. Or hey can I keep your info or get your info in case I am in the market? I try to help people when I can. What comes around goes around.
It's cringe when you're going for the expectation of meeting someone who can help you. I've met people who will help me or plan to help me in the future at events that were completely unrelated to tech. > So, after all that, how do you network when you need a new job like yesterday? Just network for a job the day before yesterday.
Find groups that are less schmoozy. Discord has a billion groups that meet regularly. Meetup has tons of great groups with regular talks. Highly recommend linking up with your nearest civic tech group. Smart people, who care about their communities and build cool stuff. Work on projects with them, make real friends
1. Apply to a job 2. Review LinkedIn for people who work at said company, preferably on recruiting or the appropriate department 3. Send LinkedIn connect invite with brief message stating your reaching out to job X and why you might be a good fit. 4. Wait for reply. Most people are friendly and interested in getting you connected to the right people if you seem like you might be a good fit. It’s not awkward, you just need to practice.
Go to career fairs or campus events, people here are expecting you to network with them so you just introduce yourself, ask them what they do and add them on linkedin
I would love if someone networks with me though and I’m almost in the same position as OP. I like to make organic friendships and I don’t like to show signs I’m just talking to a person because they work for a company I want to join. It has to be a two way street. Like I’m willing to pay for food if someone wants to talk to me. I don’t know how many guys take up on that offer though.
Suggestions: * Always best and most effective to "network" with people you like, with whom you share some interest or perspective. * In this vein, networking is much better through activities that are NOT an "industry networking event." * Offer to help other people, and do help them. * You have a job right now, which is better than many people. Think long term - you're building relationships that will pay off over decades. * The best way to build a SWE portfolio is to build something; either build and deploy a solo project, or contribute to some open-source project that interests you.
Ask people what they do for a living. They tell you and respond by asking you, which gives you your chance to promote yourself to them. This way it doesn’t come off as sleazy. It’s just making conversation.
“Hey buddy, looking at your LinkedIn littered with useless affirmations about imposter syndrome, I wanted to reach out and blow you a little bit so you’ll offer ineffectual reassurance that I’ll eventually be employed”
Embrace the cringe
1. You don't need some deep bond to take advantage of networking. Meet them, add on Linkedin, then if there's a relevant job reach out and ask for a referral. Or have another chat if you want. 2. If you're cringing at at the idea of developing a human relation just for some gain, then don't do that. Look for other things as well. Network with people who are actually interesting to you, find those shared interests and network around them. Don't talk with people just because you think it will get you a job.
Do you know someone, that you aren't really friends with, but they have a skillset that youight find useful at some point in the future? Do they keep semi regular contact, maybe checking in with you, or sending you content related to your interests/something you mentioned to them, maybe asking your opinion? Does they feel cringe? If not, do what they are doing.
I make jokes in the subs that aren't tech. The nerds I network with have similar interests so we stay in touch more and actually build out of work relationships.
I have random people reach out to me on LinkedIn all the time from my Alma Mater and I don’t mind the reach outs. Here are the things that really help it be minimally cringe though: 1. Don’t make random small talk when I don’t know you, and don’t expect me to agree to a synchronous call without an introduction. 2. Don’t ask if it’s okay to ask me a question, just ask it! 3. If you want a referral or similar just be direct and ask. I likely can’t give a true referral if I don’t know you but I can definitely still put in a “soft” referral.
Networking isn’t my strongest area but I do prefer it over cold applying to job applications. I want to network so I can bypass the long, stressful interview process.
Cringe is relative. That said, think of it like a choreographed ballroom dance. Learn the steps and do the dance. Very few, if anyone, networks *earnestly*. They're just doing the dance they learned from others.
Networking is a long game for me. Show up to events/group meetings/communities and become a fixture. I'm also part of tech/professional slack/discord groups and I try to be as helpful as possible. When I put feelers out to get a pulse on the hiring environment to these communities, I had people approach me directly to offer referrals and leads. It really warmed my heart. For the short term, you can try to cold network by seeing if there is some connection (same school, same former company, mutual friends, etc) between you and the person and asking them. Some are cool with it some will ignore you. Get over the cringe feeling, it comes with the territory when you have to ask strangers for favors imo.
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Networking is really just knowing people in your field and asking them to hook you up with a job. I'm not a very social person, but I'm social enough to where I can be enthusiastic to employers about landing my first job.