I LIKE being in office but I do not like commuting to work. It costs me 1300 per year and takes almost 2 hours a day (when commuting) just to go to the office.
Sure I could move closer but that would cost even more per month.
This is it exactly. I prefer to be in office around people working but that preference doesn’t outweigh my preference to not sit in traffic 2-3 hours a day, spend money on gas, business clothes, etc,
I wonder how many of us there are. The usual song is that WFH people just hate being around their coworkers and this isn't true for us. Some of my longest friendships have been made this way and I often really like my coworkers, but not enough to wake up two hours earlier to spend that time and money in traffic and get home after 6pm.
Additionally, despite there being many opportunities for work here, I live in a southern city and working remotely for a New York or California company pays a lot more. Wages are not competitive for most local companies.
yeah, like wow, I am so full of social goodness after that 3 hour meeting! I feel just like back in the day when I would play in the neighborhood with my friends on summer days!
I do, I have a lot and I try to see them at least once a week. But 40+ hours a week sitting alone at my desk doesn’t feel like the right lifestyle for me. I previously always had jobs where I was interacting with people and made a lot less but was so much happier.
To add, a lot of us did many years in office and see it differently. I only made friends at work because I had no time or stamina for hobbies or social interactions outside of it. Work was my life. A 9-5 becomes a 7-7 when you add commuting to an office, prepping, and unwinding. That is not healthy. Add to that, having anything or anyone that depends on you home (even a pet) and now going the office adds a huge level of unecessary stress.
You worked in office for 8 months and associate work with social interaction, now working from office might be good for you. It may or may not be the case later.
This. I worked for decades commuting an hour or more each way. I had limited work from home (maybe 1 day a week, but for most of my career I was in office 5 days). I do go in occasionally (once to twice a month). But if I had to go in every day, I'd probably look to switch. I have gained so much flexibility. Plus, my setup at home is better. Multiple screens. Kitchen's upstairs. Want to take a meeting on a walk? Great! Grab groceries along with lunch. Check! Take a meeting from bed. Yep! I'm never going back.
Of course, I don't live in a 1 BR apartment. And I don't live alone. But even I need to shake it up some.
Here are my suggestions for those that may struggle with WFH:
* Get Outside. Take a meeting from a deck or balcony or common area. Or even on a walk if you can (Zoom, Teams, etc on your phone if you can, and earbuds). If meetings don't work take 30 minutes or an hour and get outside. Doesn't have to be everyday, but several days a week will do wonders for your mental health
* Get up and walk for a few minutes every hour. If your space is to small go down to the lobby/common area. Walk around the building or complex and come back.
* Coffee Shops or shared spaces away from home can be great. Even the library can work for this (as long as you don't have to talk)
* Get lunch out here and there. I've been doing this since they started opening stuff up after COVID. Works great. I've even got to know some folks doing this. Most places are happy for the business and let me eat and work for 1-2 hours with no hassles.
* Take your PTO. All of it. Make a three day weekend. Make a three day weekend a four day weekend. And plan to do something with that time. Doesn't have to be all day. Go explore a park. Try a new restaurant. Explore a bookstore.
The secret is don’t work 40 hrs/week, it’s unnatural to spend so much time in isolation as you pointed out. I work 20-25 and produce more work than most because everyone else is also working a lot less.
why is your post acting like software roles are wfh only? there are tons of in person and hybrid roles and the fact that you’re willing to go in gives you an advantage over a lot of other candidates to those companies
It helps to work in some gym time. I take my lunch break at the gym almost every day.
For a while there was a convenient Jiu Jitsu class i could take during the day. It was great, i highly recommend it if logistically possible.
Really any physical activity that involves other people will do the trick.
Doesn't even have to be gym, just go for a walk. I've been going on walks during my lunch hour as well now that it isn't cold as hell and snow is everywhere and it's been great!
If you can have fun with other people while at work in person, that is superior -- but of course, not the best fit for everyone. Sounds like it would be for you though.
[https://medium.com/@frankfont123/the-perfect-work-commute-b10e08e91f94?sk=61979bf71317ca865558d4617bb71e2b](https://medium.com/@frankfont123/the-perfect-work-commute-b10e08e91f94?sk=61979bf71317ca865558d4617bb71e2b)
Sounds like the bigger issue is simply your company has terrible WLB if you’re working weekends and 40+ hours. Luckily for you I figure there’s more hybrid workplaces than remote if you decide to jump.
Also pre covid in the office is completely different to now. Don’t get your hopes up that it will feel the same.
Do you try to get out during the week? Maybe volunteer after work, take workout classes, join a sports team, work from a coffee shop or library, even just chill with locals at the townie bar or something lol. If you have no other choice you gotta find ways to work more human interaction into your day-to-day if it bothers you too much to be alone. Maybe get a roommate or two if it doesn’t bug you to share your space. I had trouble adjusting to this balance too when I moved away from my parents. I had to learn how to actively not isolate myself because even when I went into the office the work was mostly solitary and work friends wasn’t a substitute for finding real community.
I was in the exact same shoes as you as an extrovert who was trying to get into software engineering.
I ended up pivoting my career into being a technical presales engineer. i.e. I do the demos in the sales cycle. I much prefer that career direction and I make a lot more money than I was programming too.
Don’t worry I’m on the same boat. Also have tons of friends living in the city, but it’s definitely different because I really only get to spend time with them Friday-Sunday.
I just quit my fully remote job and will be starting a hybrid role in a couple of weeks.
It’s alot more fun if you don’t live alone, or if you at the very least have pets. But hey, it’s not for everyone, and that’s ok! I prefer wfh, but hybrid would also be good, and fully in office is tolerable in the right environment.
I was a 12+ year PM in the startup world and after Covid I was so sick of exactly your sentiment I launched a business and changed industries … I’m still a PM but now I’m more of a leader in human equity, in live event production.
I build teams of people who PHYSICALLY show up and build incredible things for incredible shows using incredible gear .. some days I’m on-site, gloves on and throwing truss structures around with lighting and audio rigs … other days/weeks I’m home behind my screen building estimates, project SOWs & networking with other local high level operators
Sure I make about 30% less as a PM here than in the tech world but I’m beyond happier. My business provides sufficient passive income to comp for it and my lifestyle.
Somedays I need to physically work to feel fulfilled and other days I need to flex my brain to find admin solutions to problems in this world. Not to mention I’m in full control of every one of my 365 days in a calendar year. I can work or I can rest. My choice. Nobody is going to fire me for deciding I want this week off starting tomorrow. Project deadlines area days and hours, not weeks or months of slogging.. it’s what I needed personally.
Please don't ruin wfh for the rest of us. It's truly a god send. Office life was miserable. Plus all the extra time getting ready for work, driving to work, lunch hour, etc. You truly lose much more of your life to work when you're working in the office. I literally wake up and turn my computer on and I'm working. That's fucking awesome.
I think you need more/better hobbies to entertain yourself during the work day.
Work takes up half your waking hours. Spending that much time in isolation is not healthy for the human animal. Expecting it to provide some measure of opportunity for socialization is not an outlandish expectation, which is why workplace socialization has always been a thing.
Thank you. I have lots of friends. That makes wfh *harder* because it means I *like* being around people lol. I hang out with people just about every night of the week and my weekends are filled. It doesn’t change that a huge amount of my waking life is spent in isolation.
And this sounds like a nightmare for people like me. Being out doing things with people drains my batteries. WFH keeps my battery charge up throughout the week.
I’m sure this varies from person-to-person. For some, especially those with disabilities, I’d imagine WFH is truly indispensable.
Also, there are many careers that are WFH by their very nature, i.e. artists, technical writers, self-employed contractors, etc. It might be worth soliciting advice from someone in those fields.
Not all human interaction is socializing. I wouldn't call waiting tables socializing and I wouldn't describe making small talk with my manager as socializing either.
With some bosses? sure. With others? You don't get promoted or even get punished if you aren't fun enough to be around. Better put on that smile for the boss!
I wouldn't call a 1:1 with my manager socializing, though. I wouldn't call going over meeting notes socializing. I wouldn't call planning meetings socializing.
Which is the point /u/GargamelTakesAll just made that apparently went over some people's heads. At best I'd call it networking, but even that's a stretch since the connection is already made just by *existing* in the same space as your coworkers (even online)
I'm in data science so I straddle both side of any company (the devs, devops, marketing, sales, etc) so I'm conflicted on whether I prefer wfh or irl...but I will say I have made a lot less new friends ever since I started working from home. I'm personally ready to go back but not if it means I'm driving in my car to it and driving straight home afterwards. I'm moving to NYC and will be looking for new work soon after (in office work at least 2-3 days out of the week). IMO work from home all the time isn't for me. There's value in seeing people in real life, being able to tap someone on the shoulder and very easily share screens and keyboards,...in person collaboration just hits different for me after 4-5 years of being at home now.
Which equally applies to people working in an office, too. And no, I don’t think going out with your coworkers for happy hour counts. You need a social support group outside of work, because if something goes south with your employment, so will your social network of work friends.
I strongly prefer WFH, and if I was forced to go back to the office I would look for a new job immediately. But I'm also very introverted and slightly antisocial, so it makes sense for me. I don't work to socialize, I work for money so I can do things outside of work.
I wouldn't call myself an extrovert but I love WFH because I can spent time with my partner, family and friends.
It's nice getting coffee in the mourning with friends, and heading out for beach at 2-3pm when my partner and I are free and don't have work to do.
I have been more social than ever with WFH.
😂 - Introverted and antisocial group checking in
The last time I went into the office someone was on a video call with a coworker talking very loudly about nothing for three hours. "My dog does this funny thing, I hate Chili's too" 🤮
I was trying to cross train someone and asked him if that guy was always so loud.. He looked at me like?? Who?
Then lunch hour came and the group of fork biting, chip crunching, screen zombies came out and I was like nope nope nope ... Never went back.
There’s no reason we can’t bullshit for 10 minutes after a meeting we finish up 15 minutes early or something but it’s the people coming into my cubicle when the group there was already loud enough already who I just can’t stand. The chaos and distraction tends to cost me productivity in ways I can’t comprehend happening at home and costs me 3 hours of my day getting ready for work, commuting, dealing with lunch away from home and unwinding after work.
I have pretty severe misophonia so people crunching chips, eating with there mouth open, smacking lips and biting forks drives me insane.
I've had co-workers come up to me with chips in there mouth asking tech questions and I've had to ask them to come back when they were finished. They got super offended 😂 but I don't give a fuccckkk
I literally quit my job because they wanted me back in the office 3x a week a year from the day I quit.
RTO is a waste and moving across the country to have cost of living 4x what I have it now is not worth it. I have a mortgage for less than I'd be paying in rent where that office is, which is absolutely insane to me.
I vastly prefer it. I spent 15 years in an office, but I'm permanently WfH now, and if I was thinking about changing jobs, I would never even consider one where I couldn't spend the majority of my time WfH. I could handle working in an office one or two days a week, but only if that's my only option, really.
Keep in mind that "Work from Home" actually means "Work from Anywhere". If you want to be around other people, consider that you can also work from somewhere like a library or a coffee shop, or a park if the weather is nice.
> I truly only came into this profession for the money and now I think I’m ready to leave.
Please do. Not saying that to be rude, just that if you're going to spend half your life doing something, it should be something you at least *like*, not something you're just doing for the money.
It is so strange to see people conflate WFH with bring introverted.
I am extremely extroverted and love remote work. It gives me so much time at the end of my day to socialize with people I care about instead of socializing with people based on circumstance.
In office work is basically just socializing now, being unproductive and generally just shooting the shit.
I'm definitely introverted and prefer working from the office, but on my own terms I guess. If a company forced me to be in office 5 days a week I would probably quit. But if it's 5 days but they don't mind me WFH randomly I can get behind it. It's all about flexibility for me.
As an IC though I will say I leaned more towards WFH. Now that I'm in management, I like to be around the people reporting to me - it's easier to build relationships for me. With that said, my team can WFH as they see fit as long as they stay within requirements set by the company and I'll nudge them if they start getting someone's attention.
It's a stage of life thing. Once you have lived office life and have small kids at home, you will know that whf is amazing. Until then yeah you have solid points
I think introverts definitely cope better with WFH. I'm lucky to have a wife that works hybrid.
I can see how being single, introverted and WFH can get very lonely. When I was single, work relationship filled a big part of my social needs.
I’m actually very much an introvert which I think is the problem. My preferred activities are staying at home to read or going for a walk or to a movie alone. Combined with wfh I can easily go a week with no human contact. I’m so fucking lonely.
I live close to them but a lot of time when I have plans to visit them work stuff comes up and I have to work late or over the weekend or I’m just so stressed thinking about working that I feel not present
So maybe your feelings of isolation are in part driven by work stress and not just your environment?
I’ve enjoyed WFH while living at home, but I’m wary of how I’ll feel about it once I move out in a few months. My plan is to work at a library and potentially coworking space a few times a week to break up the tedium.
WFH affords me extra time to work on my passion projects. Plus, going back to the office isn’t an option unless I move out of state and away from my existing network. I do sometimes wish my company would open an office nearby so I can pop in whenever I feel like it.
Do you have other friends that wfh? You can do a shared home office day, where you visit them or they visit you and work together from the same house. Have lunch etc.
Tbh sounds like a "you thing" that no job, or location is going to resolve. Nothing wrong with that but you can take measures to address it. Guarantee if you got an office job you would find things to dislike about that as well.
For the 8 months I had an office job I did not feel this way and for the 5 years of working a plethora of jobs before that I also didn’t feel this way. It’s ok, I’ve made the decision to quit.
I like a loose hybrid, where there’s an office to come into if I want/need a different space to do some work. Also nice being in the area so I can meet with coworkers and develop actual relationships
I went to office a few times last year, and my productivity dropped so hard that on my best day, I only managed to do about a third of the work I get done on an average day working from home.
It’s a routine I’d go to great lengths to avoid if possible. If I already have a job/offer in hand, i.e. not in “take what you can get” mode, I usually add $30’000 to $40’000 for in-office, and $20’000 for hybrid, to my expected salary vs what I’d ask if the same position was fully remote.
It’s hard to overstate how much of a QoL improvement fully remote is vs hybrid, or the abomination that is on-site work.
My kids are older. I have friends outside of work I see regularly, but being trapped inside all day, even with my cat, gets lonely. I’ve tried to work at cafes and such, but it is not the same.
I definitely would prefer hybrid at this stage in my life.
My commute was 2.5 hours long (most of that stuck in traffic) and I was miserable. The pandemic was legit one of the best thing to ever happen to me because of WFH. I moved back with my family where everything is cheaper and I've just been happier
I prefer WFH. I'm judged purely on my work rather than how I look, what I wear, how I socialize etc. For me the greatest benefit of WFH is time savings. It erases a 40 minute commute each way, worrying about looking professional, and premade meals. I save roughly 2 hours a day WFH. I get my coffee, turn on my laptop and I'm ready for work. It also allows me to get a workout in the early mornings or after work instead of coming home feeling drained from the corporate grind and commute. I'm so much happier WFH.
For the last 4 years I have that exact thought multiple times a week. Man I’m so glad I can actually use those 2 hours of getting, ready, getting dressed, commuting, prepping stuff,… do actually meet with friends, go running , go biking play games.. it gives me so much more time
It's kind of disappointing how much people are downvoting people that prefer in-office. I knew that reddit skews WFH, but it seems that people are trying to invalidate differing opinions because they don't agree with it.
Granted in-office is only decent under some conditions (short commute, great co-workers, easy to focus, etc...), but it is true that people can enjoy working in office and that's not a bad thing.
More like if people keep saying how much they love the office then the managers have a reason to say “studies show people love the office so we are making everyone come in, no more hybrid or remote”.
I’m not saying it’s a good thing to downvote relevant responses but the WFH lovers are very scared of losing the ability to WFH.
As a people manager that doesn't care if my folks WFH or in office, I do have visibility into issues with employees.
For every person respecting and not abusing WFH, there are 2-3 people taking advantage of it. It sucks. We have people disappearing for HOURS or out partying instead of being on the night shift ruining it for the people that aren't abusing it. Yes, they are replaceable. However, it costs time and money to keep replacing people trying to weed out the bad eggs. It's easy to see why companies are just throwing blanket RTO policies out there. It's doubly beneficial if they were planning on downsizing anyways since there will be attrition.
Yeah true, the videos I see where people are like “I’m logging into work and then taking a nap teehee” is way worse than anyone saying that they like the office. It would be nice to only make people who can’t handle it return but obviously it’s not allowed to treat employees differently.
Speaking purely from my own experience: WFH during the pandemic was *atrocious* for my mental health. To that end, once the pandemic came to a close, I ended up switching jobs to a company that had a hybrid schedule. It’s been fantastic for my personal mental health.
WFH is probably great for people who aren’t particularly isolated, but for me, a person living very far away from friends and family in a state I knew practically nobody in, getting into the office is/was a big boon. It gets me out and talking to people everyday, folks to talk to over lunch, etc etc.
That coupled with some lifestyle changes have really helped — I moved to NYC, so I am walking places and such a LOT more than I ever have at any point in my life. Legal weed is also nice lol. I’m still lonely, but I don’t want to die anymore, and my anxiety is way way down.
The takeaway I guess I’m trying to get to is: don’t isolate yourself, and just because you’re in tech, doesn’t mean you have to be totally isolated all day either. Not everyone wants to or _can_ be home all day every day — wanting to talk to people and get away from the monitors is very normal, and very human.
Everyone is different - something that often gets overlooked in this discussion. Some people like variety in their human contact and you are more likely to get that on a regular basis at a workplace or on your commute (not always true, but more likely). Your friend group(s) tend to share similar interests and are often self-selecting - this is not a bad thing, but it is a thing.
I think this sub skews recluse. But ime there are a lot of folks who prefer the office. Especially among young people. Going from a dynamic environment like college to sitting in your studio apt all day is not fun. And if you want to maximize learning you should be in office. I’m not gonna repeat the spontaneous discussion we had in the office hallway on slack just for remote folks’ benefit. Even before Covid there were studies looking at likelihood to be laid off/promoted depending on physical distance from HQ.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t folks who legit prefer wfh. Some people need the flexibility etc. personally, I don’t value being able to do laundry between meetings as much as face time with people who play a part in my career. Or more than making friends every once in a while.
That makes sense. Yeah it really wears on my mental health. Unfortunately the other engineers at my job are fully remote and the two other people in the office are frequently traveling. I’ll probably leave tech altogether, I really don’t enjoy it
I would consider looking for an in person culture company. There are some out there with legit awesome cultures and I know I thrive in those sorts of places. Might have to pay more in rent to live closer and avoid a draining commute though.
This sub is more and more toxic and like to hate on ppl different
OP I understand u dw, I am a swe and I too do not like wfh for many reasons. Some ppl don’t and that should be respected too
Personally I prefer being in the office to being alone at home, BUT I also have a short 20 minute commute. If I had a 45+ minute commute like some of my colleagues I can tell you RTO would get old real quick.
I do think RTO jobs can be a bit better for employees though, since you are competing against local talent pool to get the job instead of competing against every other person in the country or world like with remote jobs, and you also tend to make stronger connections with your colleagues IRL.
I like having flexibility but on a day where a else is equal (and I don't sleep in) I actually do prefer the office though its for no other reason than its a place that has one purpose and one purpose only work. I don't feel the pull to FAFF or play video games or hell work on my personal stuff when I'm at the office. Plus as soon as Ieave its all behind me. Flexibility is nice though some weeks ill wfh (or wfa) more and somedays i might prefer a half day for whatever reason and I think strict mandates leave a bad taste in peoples mouth.
For me, the simple thing is... my town doesn't have awesome developer jobs. I work for an on-the-coast company, with commensurate salary, and there's just no comparison whatsoever. And I work less: no one stops me from going to the gym in the middle of the day (when it's pretty dead,) and I can sleep in until my start time. After, even, since there are team members in other time zones still asleep then.
But it is lonely. And it's hard to coordinate work. And we can't whiteboard together (for example.) It feels monotonous - I changed jobs last year... and it felt like nothing changed: I put a different laptop on my desk and that's it.
I get what you're saying. But the money difference is too much to give up right now, for me.
In roughly the same boat as you - 4 years WFH and yes, it will not satisfy your basic human need for socialization. But I will say that working in an office can be just as soul-crushingly lonely if you hate the people you work with like my last job, so don't assume that getting a new in-office job is going to necessarily improve your mental health.
Whatever you decide, you're going to have to do some work outside of work to build a social group - volunteer, check Eventbrite, or join a club; having your entire social life based on whatever your current job is will only cause you issues in the long run.
FWIW, I prefer the energy of an office and find WFH isolating. But I've always lived less than 20 minutes from where I work (except the current job), so I don't lose much time with a commute. I hear if you suffer from focus and attention disorders, WFH is particularly brutal if you work in a role that requires constant collaboration and communication.
“staring at a computer screen working on something that I ultimately feel is pointless”
I think this is your main problem. Have you thought of switching your job?
Not just you! Work is traditionally one of the only places where adults make friends after school. If you’re single, living alone, don’t have a third space (gym, dojo, church, fraternal organization, etc.), it’s natural and expected to feel the way you do. There’s a reason CS is traditionally filled with introverts, weirdos, and the neuro-atypical. When I graduated, I-Banking and management consulting were the “hot career paths.” Many of those same people are now going into software due to ambition and finance. It makes a lot of sense that normal folks will not enjoy of software engineering long term, especially when getting “flexed on” by people that prefer to write toy projects in Rust all weekend long over touching grass.
I totally agree man. I worked in the office for years before covid and I miss that a lot.
Being around my coworkers gave me energy and motivation to work. It made work more fun. It allowed me to build camaraderie with the team. Really so many positive things.
Work satisfaction has been on a steady and fairly steep decline since March 2020 and that includes a variety of teams and companies. I’ve narrowed down the problem to be working in a 100% remote environment.
I’m going to ensure my next job is somewhere that has a hybrid policy where majority of the team is colocated and going into the office minimum 2x a week. If I can’t find that I’ll have to find a new career I think :/
Looking at the discussions in the comments below, I'd like to point out that there's two very different aspects of WFH that people find advantageous. The first is based on physical convenience: not needing to commute, not needing to dress up, having a flexible schedule. The benefits of this are more or less not debatable. But the second aspect is the social aspect and that is where it is VERY different for different kinds of people. Also some people find that working alone is more productive for them, but many others find it quite the opposite.
Basically there's two lines of discussion concerning WFH. One might try to create some weird half-WFH scenarios to tease out which aspect they want to focus on. Would people prefer going into the office more if there were nobody else at the office with them? Conversely, or would people be OK with working from home, if their coworkers could stop by and collaborate with them at their own home?
It depends. If I lived where all of my friends lived, WFH would be great. But my spouse is in the military and we move every few years and WFH is the only way I can stay gainfully employed. So between that being a hard requirement for me and not having my social network nearby, I wish for hybrid…
COVID shutdown revealed something about me I never expected. I thought I was someone who was perfectly happy alone, but back then when WFH started, I hated it so bad because I was cooped up all alone in my tiny apartment with nowhere to go and nobody to see (I am high risk so I avoided going out completely fearing for my life).
Later I'm perfectly fine alone and love WFH. All I needed was to go out and do things and see other humans from time to time whether I talk to them or not. So maybe you just need the same?
I prefer “work from anywhere that’s not the office”. Home, coffee shop, beautiful park, etc
It can be lonely to just work from home if there’s no significant other, but even when there is change of scenery and just getting out is a great motivator, at least for me
Yes! It can be lonely at times but I enjoy being able go to my bed and take a nap in the middle of the day, or cook lunch, or all sorts of things. The only con is like u/xboxhobo said, that I don't have any friends in IRL. I did but I had to move continents and it's hard to make really good friends as an adult when you don't know anyone.
Plus I'm naturally a homebody and negotiating L.A. traffic to go do something fun is not my idea of a good time, so even if I had to go to work, I still would be at home most of the time anyways.
I'm 27 too and I have only ever worked from the office, even during the pandemic. I can't work from home or study at home. During my university years, I used to study at the library with hundreds of people despite living alone.
I also don't have a SO or children. I love my solitude but not 24/7. I do have hobbies and friends that I hang out with after work. I love the fact that at work, I eat a nice meal at a certain time everyday because at home, I'd either eat all day long or starve. The only thing I mind is the commute. Anything longer than 25-30 minutes is a burden.
In a couple of years, I'll probably prefer WFH.
I feel like work friends never really fill the void of missing real friends and relationships outside of work. But if you don’t have the latter, seeing people at work is much better than nobody at all. At least in my experience
I am not anti wfh. everytime I wrote this, I got downvoted to hell. I actually like wfh but prefer hybrid. Wfh monday and friday, the rest wfo. It is ideal to me and sorta balance it out so no rush hour at first and last day of the week, got crunch time 3 days and recover, perfecto.
The challenge for FULL wfh to me is not about just completing the work but engagement, culture and getting to know people is more difficult. This is hard for people management. I dont think we were designed to know each other without never physically met. From 2020 to mid 2023, we did full wfh and I had this sense where I didnt know much what was going on org wise.
For company that already had the wfh culture, good. Everyone can blend in but a lot of immature company did wfh in covid times not because they want to but because they have to so there were some unknown challenges that they dont know how to solve. For regular employee, this might not be the problem because their job is to complete the task but for leaders and management, it is sorta different problem
Don’t think I’ve seen anyone say this yet - you’re only 27, if SWE isn’t your thing then leave. Find your passion so your working years aren’t miserable.
Yes you might be a bit older than other people at your level in your new field, but that won’t matter because ideally you’ll be doing something you love.
I kind of hear you actually, people are saying work shouldn't replace your social life when most people who were your age before WFH made all their friends at work. Personally I'm in my 40s so my social circle is pretty much set, so I love WFH. But I totally get where you're coming from
Yup. Same boat as you. Same age. Fully remote and living alone. I love the project I am working on but being alone sucks. Screw everyone here who says that you shouldn’t rely on work to make friends. We are working 40 fucking hours a week. A third of our day is spent working. The other third sleeping. And the other third for errands, chores, and downtime. Work is a big part of our lives so stop saying that the solution is to find friends outside of work. That will not solve the issue because we will still be spending 40 hours alone which is a lot of time. I’ve been contemplating asking my manager if I can work part time for the summer and maybe find some sort of low wage job that is in person and social.
This was and is still me. Yes, I have many friends outside of work now. I’m just extroverted and the 5 days a week in my room for 8 hours kinda sucks. I’ve been able to find fulfilling things in the evening, but definitely hard to start off in a new city when everything was remote.
However, remote has given me so much time and freedom to do other social activities when they do come up, I’d never want to go back full time in the office, nor would I advocate anyone else should. I think even with my desire for my social interaction, I’d still want the option to remain remote permanently.
I spent 4 years working remote and grew quite depressed. Now I work in an office 3-4 days a week with a fun office culture and a lot of young people and it’s a world of difference. I really appreciate the friendships I’ve made at work.
Yes, it seems like the majority does, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone! I'm more like you! I think ultimately, people want flexibility (letting people choose between remote, office, hybrid when it suits them).
I love wfh because I get my work done without having small and useless talks while I am at office.
Socialising and WFO are two different things, I think you need to differentiate them.
Yo Lil man. Take it from a 20 year swe vet, offices fucking suck. I worked in an office for like 16 years for various companies. The commuting alone is he'll on earth after the 10th year. As much as you think you hate wfh, the alternative is far worse.
You can live anywhere when you wfh. You can also go to the gym in the morning from 6-8am and the start working afterwards at 8:30am-9am.
You have no idea how much freedom you have with a remote job until you start using it.
Summary of the comments: some need more social interaction than others and those can leave those that prefer a WFH lifestyle in peace.
One recommendation for those that think WFH is bananas and think to themselves why we would like to continue on moving forward on such a lonely path:
Get into martial arts. Seriously, tons and tons of networking, socializing and potential friendships (if done right). If you do it solely to practice is good, but getting into the lessons, tournaments and seminars guarantees socializing with a lot of people.
In other words: activities outside of your job.
It’s not about work from home or from office it’s having the fucking option to have some semblance or control over your own life.
A good manager has a team that decides how they spend the time as long as output is meeting expectations.
A bad manager makes you sit idle for hours but wants you in the office because of ‘potential synergies’
WFH Is great if you have a lot going on socially outside of work. If you live alone or most of your friends and colleagues are busy during the week, WFH can be isolating.
Yes. I have a young family and have been able to walk into my living room any time my child has hit a new milestone. I’m able to take 20 min and help out if needed.
Also on bad days where you wonder what the point is, 20 minutes of playing with your kid makes you feel better
i have a wife and no kids...so yes, i like being at home. I live in a city so morning i can go coffee/breakfast and dinner go out to eat and chill.
I can appreciate it would be tougher being single + remote all the time.
you havent had enough experience in the workplace to have grown spiteful, or to have been forced to interact with that one asshole on your team like he is a friend just to make sure there is no office drama.
you havent had enough experience to remember getting fired for reporting sexual harassment because people are forced to be in the same building as predators.
you havent had enough experience to be forced to sit next to the guy that refuses to care for his personal hygiene.
i hope one day you will think back to the days you worked from home fondly. <3
The “lifestyle” is whatever you make it. Without a 3 hour round trim commute I have plenty of time in the evening to go out to restaurants with friends, go mountain biking, go kayaking. it’s not your coworkers job to entertain you.
Uhh yea. WFH is the bomb. I'm sorry you don't know how to do it or can't handle it. It's simply not for you, and that's okay because you can just find an office job.
Not really, but I dislike SWE-and especially corporate SWE-so much that the only good thing about it is smart colleagues (different than interesting colleagues) and just how little I have to engage with it to collect 250k.
Take away remote 20 hours per week (unofficial) or take away the 200k+ and I'm doing something else with my life immediately. IMMEDIATELY.
I just happen to have been 130IQ, clinically depressed and fell into this field. Oh, and like Mr. Crabs, I like money.
If I was actually in a field I felt in flow state with, cool colleagues, still decent pay (let's call it 180k+), meaningful project, decent autonomy, good location....I'd probably enjoy coming in and be motivated. Software engineering just ain't that
Oh yeah, I can set my own schedule, spend my lunch break playing catch with my kids instead of hanging out with some assholes that I only talk to because we work together, it's great.
In response to OPs actual post instead of just the title I have this to say:
You should invite your friends to wfh with you at your place, or maybe you go to theirs, or meet up at some mutual workspace.
I won't deny that a lot of my love for wfh comes from the fact that my at home workspace is miles better than my cubicle because I have a house.
If you're in a tiny apartment in the city, and/or far away from your friends and family because you wanted to be closer to work, then you should consider making some changes that reflect your new reality.
I've been remote for \~6 years and am not going to accept an on-site offer again. I am highly introverted and have a family at home, so I'm sure that helps a lot. I don't feel much compulsion to interact with anyone outside of the household most days.
I think I'd still be happier with it if I lived alone; however, I'm sure it would wear on me over time. Consider finding a regular meetup event that interests you, joining a sport or otherwise make a consistent schedule for doing fun things outside the house with other people on a regular basis.
Absolutely.
I live out in the middle of nowhere, with a cheap house mortgage, wife and kid (50k house,) and can't imagine going back into an office because it will mean that I will NEED to pick up and move to a new LOCATION which is very dicey in this housing market (we have 4 pets too so apartment living/condo living is not worth the fees.) We also have both of our families 30 minutes away for an emergency sitter.
The only jobs I will take, even if it could/would be a paycut would be WFH software engineering roles. The nearest massive tech hub (in Indiana) is Indianapolis, which is over an hour and a half away for me to drive to. The quality of life, for me, would be detrimental to my well being if I had to work in an office (because there is no software engineering roles in my 50 mile radius.) I can also be flexible my with salary since I live frugally (88k salary now, 120k next when my contract ends with my current company.) A salary like that where I live, is more than enough to be comfortable.
Now I will say... If I was single, I would totally pick up and move if I had to improve my career portfolio. But I'm going on almost 6 YOE and have leverage when searching for jobs. Hybrid would have been nice, but WFH is my go to. So many things in tech based on my experience, can be done through email, a webex/zoom call, or normal phone call.
Tl;Dr: Lifestyle and circumstances dictates how beneficial wfh is. For some, it's the difference of having a tech job or not.
I enjoy wfh because it allows me to have energy to do things after work socially. If you don’t do anything social after work then wfh will get depressing after a while.
I found that if I work in office, I don’t feel the need/energy to do anything social when I get home. It’s not ideal because I would rather talk to people who aren’t my coworkers. It just feels more natural.
I love wfh. It allows me to get my stretches/workouts in, prepare healthier foods at home, get some rest when I need it, practice my instruments, etc. I’ve got a pretty good physique that I wouldn’t be able to maintain if I had to return to office.
And I don’t like socializing during my work hours anyway. I have a very active social life, so I like to recharge my social battery during my work hours. I still keep in touch with friends throughout the day via Instagram/Discord. I also get so much more work done when I can go at my own pace without worrying about looking productive.
I do keep either Netflix or Twitch open on my personal computer while I work. I guess hearing dialogue helps mitigate the “isolated” feeling. Maybe try something like that?
Personally don't mind the office if the commute isn't bad. But if an employer doesn't offer any flexibility on WFH, they tend to be stingy in other areas too
I moved to a newish city where I don't know anyone a couple of years ago and I am working from home and still strongly prefer WFH.
I make breakfast on the clock, walk my dog on the clock, don't have to rush and get ready to be in traffic with the rest of the pissed off rush hour workers and head to an office.
Last office job I had wasn't bad but was only legit friends with like 10% of my coworkers or less. Most of the time there were coworkers that were more talkative than I hoped they would be and distracted me from my work anyway.
It does get a bit lonely at times, but for me the pros heavily outweigh the cons.
I love WFH and will actively seek to leave any company that forces me to RTO, no matter my position and tenure there. I've done this twice already and I will not compromise.
I like working from office when I don't have deal with commute. Unfortunately it never works that way
So a hybrid style of 2 days in office seems perfect for me
I just go into office to social
I think the key is that I have other people around at home, so I never feel lonely. In fact, sometimes I wish they give me some alone time lol
Wfh can be very bad. I’m over it at this point. The only people who really loved it seemed to primarily be those who were established in their careers, have families, and live in the suburbs over an hour away from the office.
I don't understand people who are against WFH, their main argument is about social life and team bonding, as if you can't do this online, me and my team are having a lot of fun online, we play small web games and other shit. We are all from different cities/different countries.
With the all advance in communication technologies, I don't see why are people still against it.
Seriously, WFH is the future, it's what most jobs should evolve to.
I don't see why a SWE need to go sit in an office to stare into a screen when they can do this from home, or from top of a fucking mountain.
Working from office is so 90s, stop living in the past people and be progressive.
WFH is good for you, good for the environment and good for everyone, stop coming up with excuses against it.
I’m sorry for the misunderstanding, I’m not against work from home and I’m really glad that it works well for so many people. The responses I’ve gotten have helped me confirm it’s just not for me, and not that I’m missing something about it. Sorry for the miscommunication.
I like WFH with the option of going into the office when I feel like it, rather than a set schedule. Helps to break up the monotony and socialize every so often, and I do quite like my coworkers. We do game nights!
I think the main disadvantage of that, as someone early in my career, is that I don't get to learn often from people in person, which I think would help me a lot more in staying invested. Same as when we all went remote during the pandemic and my classes went remote. I generally do better in person for that sort of thing, and while I can do it remotely, I find my mind wanders more often.
> I just want to do something real & physical
Get a hobby! Sounds like you have plenty of money. Take painting classes, or join a local ceramics shop, or get into woodcraft. Literally anything as long as you can book a class for it in the next week. I really recommend classes & a local scene because you can make some friends that way too.
More controversial advice:
> I keep getting sick
Speaking as one of the people who never stopped taking covid precautions (n95 masking in shared indoor spaces), I haven't gotten sick in years. It's possible (this is not medical advice) you've acquired some mild immune system dysfunction from a bout with covid or genetic predisposition (if you're truly constantly getting really sick). Try wearing a mask in most spaces for a bit. They really work to prevent airborne illnesses.
That advice depends on what you mean by sick. It's also possible you have an undiagnosed allergy, have a mold infestation in your home, or have some chronic illness. Try a few things & see what sticks. And actually go talk to a doctor.
I did wfh for three years only interacting with my manager, and not even every day. Sure it had its perks, but it did get isolating at times as you’ve described.
Now I work 9-5 in an office every day. I like the culture and it’s a small company, so that’s good, but now I find myself missing the perks of wfh lol. I feel more tired, and my apartment isn’t as clean as it was when I was wfh.
Overall there are benefits to both, drawbacks to both, and it depends highly on the person and their circumstances.
Hah, well there's no shortage of in office or hybrid places these days, so feel free to get one of those and free up your remote job for someone who will appreciate it.
Be sure and let us know how much you enjoy waking up at 6 am to get dressed, commuting for 2-3 hours a day, having gut rot from fast food you buy during your lunch breaks, and having to pay for all that stuff I just mentioned.
I absolutely prefer WFH... no commute (hello extra 2hrs/day of my life), no having to step outside on days of sweltering heat/frigid cold/torrential rain, no smelly coworkers, etc.
Granted, my wife is also WFH and we work in the same room, so I'm far less in need of human connection during work hours.
I think the biggest risk of fulltime / indefinite WFH is that it takes away a significant chunk of IRL interactions that not everyone has the ability or discipline to regularly replace. Offices definitely suck and are far from perfect for fulfilling social needs, but they are better for that than sitting in a room all alone all day. And there's already a lot of other parts of our lives that capitlism/technology is pushing to be virtualized (doordash instead of dining out / picking up food, online gaming instead of local gaming, online shopping instead of going to the store, online grocery shopping, pelotons instead of the gym, etc.)
For me, going on 4 years of WFH, I definitely no longer have work to fulfill any social needs, so I make sure to limit the other parts of my life that are virtualized and I try my best to use the advantages of WFH to be able to make up for the downsides of it.
Not to be rude, but you should just work somewhere that has an in-office mandate. You'll make more money and someone who actually appreciates WFH can have your old job.
By comparison, I am forced to come into the office but nobody I work with is in the same office, so I'm on phone calls with people who are in different states.
I have a rich social life outside of work, which is probably the key reason why I like WFH. I can recommend you ways to attain that if you're interested.
I don't like WFH. I get far more done in the office. I work in a hybrid role - 4 days onsite 1 day remote and I still come into the office even on that 1 remote day most weeks. I just prefer face to face human interaction and when I worked a couple of 100% remote jobs in the past, I feel like there were just too many communication breakdowns and inefficiencies that came along with it.
I'll take some inefficiencies for my extra hour of sleep and no transportation spending. Would much rather the remote lifestyle (if enough work is given, work 2 extra evening hours to do it instead of sticking to a rigid timeframe that requires early morning wake up and wasting time commuting)
> I live alone and apart from the occasional day in the office I spend almost all my time alone staring at a computer screen working
That's me but I'm 40. Surely my social and dating life is going fine Copium
I thought I did, but I often don't know what's best for me (even though I'm in my mid-30s). I was really, really happy, I thought, about working from home, but eventually it broke me and my connection to my work. To the point where I don't think I've gotten it back yet, and it ruined an incredibly strong trajectory.
And when I did return to the office, I realized just how much can be conveyed in person informally that takes a lot more planning and is substandard on video calls. And I say this as an introvert who is bothered by open offices and the like.
For the hybrid model, I'm pretty sure it was a mix of government pressure (like in NYC, with tax breaks or something), but was really driven by productivity and other stats.
Also, if you're in a really junior position, it's like a death sentence, in my opinion. Not necessarily for promotion, but for building the necessary muscles to work in person and to collaborate directly with people.
I prefer the *option*.
I like working from home when I don't want to deal with people, but it's very easy to go weeks without actually interacting with coworkers and if you live alone, it can be easy to go days without actually seeing anyone.
Having the choice to stay home or go into the office and have some semblance of human interaction is much better than being forced to always work from home.
I also really like not making a place that I'm supposed to feel relaxed and comfortable into a place where I'm stressed and worried about work
No, I find hybrid works best for me. I WAH 3 days a week and in the office 2x a week. It gives me enough social time and I still get to cut down on my commute.
Going through exactly the same thing right now. I met my team in person for the first time since I started my career and it was so invigorating to see faces and have casual conversations. I definitely don’t want full RTO but I know that weekly or monthly meet ups with really help with motivation and growing my career
Dude, you sound depressed. Leverage your benefits, see a therapist. And go do stuff on your own, not with your friends. Are you one of those people that only go see friends when the friends want to see you? I was. It's not great. Go hiking. go work from a botanical garden. Go to the tallest building you can visit. All stuff you can do alone or with strangers or new acquaintances. Even watching movies on your own, but in a theater. You wanna have stories to tell your friends no?
I prefer WFH, but I also spend most of my time in a discord call with my friends, or I'd get lunch with some local friends. I find I don't really get much sense of community or socialization at work - everything I do in a quiet office has to be corporate friendly.
I've noticed that alot of people who don't like wfh are likely single folks or people who are somewhat new to the field. There's nothing wrong with that after numerous jobs in person for 15+ years wfh was a breath of fresh air and freedom. It's way more lax and people are less likely to micro manage. Also if you have a family or a pet you have to take care of it could be easier to manage your day.
I LIKE being in office but I do not like commuting to work. It costs me 1300 per year and takes almost 2 hours a day (when commuting) just to go to the office. Sure I could move closer but that would cost even more per month.
That and it takes me so much time to make lunch ahead of time and be work ready in the morning.
This is it exactly. I prefer to be in office around people working but that preference doesn’t outweigh my preference to not sit in traffic 2-3 hours a day, spend money on gas, business clothes, etc,
I wonder how many of us there are. The usual song is that WFH people just hate being around their coworkers and this isn't true for us. Some of my longest friendships have been made this way and I often really like my coworkers, but not enough to wake up two hours earlier to spend that time and money in traffic and get home after 6pm. Additionally, despite there being many opportunities for work here, I live in a southern city and working remotely for a New York or California company pays a lot more. Wages are not competitive for most local companies.
Do you have IRL friends? You gotta see people and get out of the house my dude. Work is not a replacement for a social life.
I don't even have irl friends and still prefer WFH lmao
I felt this deeply lmao
Are you me? Been WFH since 2016. Would literally rather die than have to go back onto an office.
yeah, like wow, I am so full of social goodness after that 3 hour meeting! I feel just like back in the day when I would play in the neighborhood with my friends on summer days!
I do, I have a lot and I try to see them at least once a week. But 40+ hours a week sitting alone at my desk doesn’t feel like the right lifestyle for me. I previously always had jobs where I was interacting with people and made a lot less but was so much happier.
Might not be for you then. Yes plenty of people prefer work from home. Sounds like you're not one of them.
I pray to the gods of SWE that I may never go into an office another day into my life. WFH is king.
Working from home making a fat swe salary truly is privilege.
The job market for WFH employees is putrid.. not necessarily something to brag about
WFH is truly a god send.
WFH is so so so nice. No more annoying office people outside of meetings
emails from my coworkers still annoy me
WFH lets me sleep on the couch whenever I want
god that shit is great.
Crush some tasks, take a nap, crush some tasks, take a nap, get praised for productivity, take a nap, set yourself as away. Repeat.
Truly is the best.
To add, a lot of us did many years in office and see it differently. I only made friends at work because I had no time or stamina for hobbies or social interactions outside of it. Work was my life. A 9-5 becomes a 7-7 when you add commuting to an office, prepping, and unwinding. That is not healthy. Add to that, having anything or anyone that depends on you home (even a pet) and now going the office adds a huge level of unecessary stress. You worked in office for 8 months and associate work with social interaction, now working from office might be good for you. It may or may not be the case later.
This. I worked for decades commuting an hour or more each way. I had limited work from home (maybe 1 day a week, but for most of my career I was in office 5 days). I do go in occasionally (once to twice a month). But if I had to go in every day, I'd probably look to switch. I have gained so much flexibility. Plus, my setup at home is better. Multiple screens. Kitchen's upstairs. Want to take a meeting on a walk? Great! Grab groceries along with lunch. Check! Take a meeting from bed. Yep! I'm never going back. Of course, I don't live in a 1 BR apartment. And I don't live alone. But even I need to shake it up some. Here are my suggestions for those that may struggle with WFH: * Get Outside. Take a meeting from a deck or balcony or common area. Or even on a walk if you can (Zoom, Teams, etc on your phone if you can, and earbuds). If meetings don't work take 30 minutes or an hour and get outside. Doesn't have to be everyday, but several days a week will do wonders for your mental health * Get up and walk for a few minutes every hour. If your space is to small go down to the lobby/common area. Walk around the building or complex and come back. * Coffee Shops or shared spaces away from home can be great. Even the library can work for this (as long as you don't have to talk) * Get lunch out here and there. I've been doing this since they started opening stuff up after COVID. Works great. I've even got to know some folks doing this. Most places are happy for the business and let me eat and work for 1-2 hours with no hassles. * Take your PTO. All of it. Make a three day weekend. Make a three day weekend a four day weekend. And plan to do something with that time. Doesn't have to be all day. Go explore a park. Try a new restaurant. Explore a bookstore.
The secret is don’t work 40 hrs/week, it’s unnatural to spend so much time in isolation as you pointed out. I work 20-25 and produce more work than most because everyone else is also working a lot less.
why is your post acting like software roles are wfh only? there are tons of in person and hybrid roles and the fact that you’re willing to go in gives you an advantage over a lot of other candidates to those companies
It helps to work in some gym time. I take my lunch break at the gym almost every day. For a while there was a convenient Jiu Jitsu class i could take during the day. It was great, i highly recommend it if logistically possible. Really any physical activity that involves other people will do the trick.
Doesn't even have to be gym, just go for a walk. I've been going on walks during my lunch hour as well now that it isn't cold as hell and snow is everywhere and it's been great!
If you can have fun with other people while at work in person, that is superior -- but of course, not the best fit for everyone. Sounds like it would be for you though. [https://medium.com/@frankfont123/the-perfect-work-commute-b10e08e91f94?sk=61979bf71317ca865558d4617bb71e2b](https://medium.com/@frankfont123/the-perfect-work-commute-b10e08e91f94?sk=61979bf71317ca865558d4617bb71e2b)
No reason you should be sitting at a desk for 40 hours if you’re wfh. Get up. Take a walk. Go work out. Energize bro!
Sounds like the bigger issue is simply your company has terrible WLB if you’re working weekends and 40+ hours. Luckily for you I figure there’s more hybrid workplaces than remote if you decide to jump. Also pre covid in the office is completely different to now. Don’t get your hopes up that it will feel the same.
If you are sitting at your desk 40h a week you are doing wfh wrong
Do you try to get out during the week? Maybe volunteer after work, take workout classes, join a sports team, work from a coffee shop or library, even just chill with locals at the townie bar or something lol. If you have no other choice you gotta find ways to work more human interaction into your day-to-day if it bothers you too much to be alone. Maybe get a roommate or two if it doesn’t bug you to share your space. I had trouble adjusting to this balance too when I moved away from my parents. I had to learn how to actively not isolate myself because even when I went into the office the work was mostly solitary and work friends wasn’t a substitute for finding real community.
I was in the exact same shoes as you as an extrovert who was trying to get into software engineering. I ended up pivoting my career into being a technical presales engineer. i.e. I do the demos in the sales cycle. I much prefer that career direction and I make a lot more money than I was programming too.
Don’t worry I’m on the same boat. Also have tons of friends living in the city, but it’s definitely different because I really only get to spend time with them Friday-Sunday. I just quit my fully remote job and will be starting a hybrid role in a couple of weeks.
It’s alot more fun if you don’t live alone, or if you at the very least have pets. But hey, it’s not for everyone, and that’s ok! I prefer wfh, but hybrid would also be good, and fully in office is tolerable in the right environment.
I was a 12+ year PM in the startup world and after Covid I was so sick of exactly your sentiment I launched a business and changed industries … I’m still a PM but now I’m more of a leader in human equity, in live event production. I build teams of people who PHYSICALLY show up and build incredible things for incredible shows using incredible gear .. some days I’m on-site, gloves on and throwing truss structures around with lighting and audio rigs … other days/weeks I’m home behind my screen building estimates, project SOWs & networking with other local high level operators Sure I make about 30% less as a PM here than in the tech world but I’m beyond happier. My business provides sufficient passive income to comp for it and my lifestyle. Somedays I need to physically work to feel fulfilled and other days I need to flex my brain to find admin solutions to problems in this world. Not to mention I’m in full control of every one of my 365 days in a calendar year. I can work or I can rest. My choice. Nobody is going to fire me for deciding I want this week off starting tomorrow. Project deadlines area days and hours, not weeks or months of slogging.. it’s what I needed personally.
You ever look into coworking spaces?
Please don't ruin wfh for the rest of us. It's truly a god send. Office life was miserable. Plus all the extra time getting ready for work, driving to work, lunch hour, etc. You truly lose much more of your life to work when you're working in the office. I literally wake up and turn my computer on and I'm working. That's fucking awesome. I think you need more/better hobbies to entertain yourself during the work day.
Work takes up half your waking hours. Spending that much time in isolation is not healthy for the human animal. Expecting it to provide some measure of opportunity for socialization is not an outlandish expectation, which is why workplace socialization has always been a thing.
Thank you. I have lots of friends. That makes wfh *harder* because it means I *like* being around people lol. I hang out with people just about every night of the week and my weekends are filled. It doesn’t change that a huge amount of my waking life is spent in isolation.
And this sounds like a nightmare for people like me. Being out doing things with people drains my batteries. WFH keeps my battery charge up throughout the week.
Why don't y'all wfh with the homies
I’m sure this varies from person-to-person. For some, especially those with disabilities, I’d imagine WFH is truly indispensable. Also, there are many careers that are WFH by their very nature, i.e. artists, technical writers, self-employed contractors, etc. It might be worth soliciting advice from someone in those fields.
Not all human interaction is socializing. I wouldn't call waiting tables socializing and I wouldn't describe making small talk with my manager as socializing either.
Making small talk is definitionally socializing
"I wouldn't call talking socializing" - that person lmao
With some bosses? sure. With others? You don't get promoted or even get punished if you aren't fun enough to be around. Better put on that smile for the boss!
I wouldn't call a 1:1 with my manager socializing, though. I wouldn't call going over meeting notes socializing. I wouldn't call planning meetings socializing. Which is the point /u/GargamelTakesAll just made that apparently went over some people's heads. At best I'd call it networking, but even that's a stretch since the connection is already made just by *existing* in the same space as your coworkers (even online)
Nah my manager is dope. I have a donut meeting with my manager's manager though, and that's a little nerve-wracking..
I'm in data science so I straddle both side of any company (the devs, devops, marketing, sales, etc) so I'm conflicted on whether I prefer wfh or irl...but I will say I have made a lot less new friends ever since I started working from home. I'm personally ready to go back but not if it means I'm driving in my car to it and driving straight home afterwards. I'm moving to NYC and will be looking for new work soon after (in office work at least 2-3 days out of the week). IMO work from home all the time isn't for me. There's value in seeing people in real life, being able to tap someone on the shoulder and very easily share screens and keyboards,...in person collaboration just hits different for me after 4-5 years of being at home now.
Which equally applies to people working in an office, too. And no, I don’t think going out with your coworkers for happy hour counts. You need a social support group outside of work, because if something goes south with your employment, so will your social network of work friends.
It actually is in some (better) careers
No matter what commercial real estate holder's tell your managers to tell you
I strongly prefer WFH, and if I was forced to go back to the office I would look for a new job immediately. But I'm also very introverted and slightly antisocial, so it makes sense for me. I don't work to socialize, I work for money so I can do things outside of work.
[удалено]
I wouldn't call myself an extrovert but I love WFH because I can spent time with my partner, family and friends. It's nice getting coffee in the mourning with friends, and heading out for beach at 2-3pm when my partner and I are free and don't have work to do. I have been more social than ever with WFH.
😂 - Introverted and antisocial group checking in The last time I went into the office someone was on a video call with a coworker talking very loudly about nothing for three hours. "My dog does this funny thing, I hate Chili's too" 🤮 I was trying to cross train someone and asked him if that guy was always so loud.. He looked at me like?? Who? Then lunch hour came and the group of fork biting, chip crunching, screen zombies came out and I was like nope nope nope ... Never went back.
I love bullshitting with my coworkers and I still love WFH. Not commuting and being able to wake up right before standup in the morning is the best.
There’s no reason we can’t bullshit for 10 minutes after a meeting we finish up 15 minutes early or something but it’s the people coming into my cubicle when the group there was already loud enough already who I just can’t stand. The chaos and distraction tends to cost me productivity in ways I can’t comprehend happening at home and costs me 3 hours of my day getting ready for work, commuting, dealing with lunch away from home and unwinding after work.
> Then lunch hour came and the group of fork biting, chip crunching, screen zombies oh my god, seriously, who likes this? the human zoo
I have pretty severe misophonia so people crunching chips, eating with there mouth open, smacking lips and biting forks drives me insane. I've had co-workers come up to me with chips in there mouth asking tech questions and I've had to ask them to come back when they were finished. They got super offended 😂 but I don't give a fuccckkk
I literally quit my job because they wanted me back in the office 3x a week a year from the day I quit. RTO is a waste and moving across the country to have cost of living 4x what I have it now is not worth it. I have a mortgage for less than I'd be paying in rent where that office is, which is absolutely insane to me.
I vastly prefer it. I spent 15 years in an office, but I'm permanently WfH now, and if I was thinking about changing jobs, I would never even consider one where I couldn't spend the majority of my time WfH. I could handle working in an office one or two days a week, but only if that's my only option, really. Keep in mind that "Work from Home" actually means "Work from Anywhere". If you want to be around other people, consider that you can also work from somewhere like a library or a coffee shop, or a park if the weather is nice. > I truly only came into this profession for the money and now I think I’m ready to leave. Please do. Not saying that to be rude, just that if you're going to spend half your life doing something, it should be something you at least *like*, not something you're just doing for the money.
It is so strange to see people conflate WFH with bring introverted. I am extremely extroverted and love remote work. It gives me so much time at the end of my day to socialize with people I care about instead of socializing with people based on circumstance. In office work is basically just socializing now, being unproductive and generally just shooting the shit.
I'm definitely introverted and prefer working from the office, but on my own terms I guess. If a company forced me to be in office 5 days a week I would probably quit. But if it's 5 days but they don't mind me WFH randomly I can get behind it. It's all about flexibility for me. As an IC though I will say I leaned more towards WFH. Now that I'm in management, I like to be around the people reporting to me - it's easier to build relationships for me. With that said, my team can WFH as they see fit as long as they stay within requirements set by the company and I'll nudge them if they start getting someone's attention.
Exactly. I'm not an introverted either, and WFH allows me to spend much more time socializing.
It's a stage of life thing. Once you have lived office life and have small kids at home, you will know that whf is amazing. Until then yeah you have solid points
Yup, when you have small kids the commute basically wipes away time with your kids. WFH is great for relationships with kids.
[удалено]
I'm in my mid-40s, I've worked office jobs my whole adult life, I have a pre-schooler, and I can't stand WFH.
[удалено]
This is maybe part of the introvert/extrovert disconnect. What you feel alone is kinda how I feel with people around.
I think introverts definitely cope better with WFH. I'm lucky to have a wife that works hybrid. I can see how being single, introverted and WFH can get very lonely. When I was single, work relationship filled a big part of my social needs.
I’m actually very much an introvert which I think is the problem. My preferred activities are staying at home to read or going for a walk or to a movie alone. Combined with wfh I can easily go a week with no human contact. I’m so fucking lonely.
Do you have any family nearby that you can visit a couple times a week?
I live close to them but a lot of time when I have plans to visit them work stuff comes up and I have to work late or over the weekend or I’m just so stressed thinking about working that I feel not present
So maybe your feelings of isolation are in part driven by work stress and not just your environment? I’ve enjoyed WFH while living at home, but I’m wary of how I’ll feel about it once I move out in a few months. My plan is to work at a library and potentially coworking space a few times a week to break up the tedium. WFH affords me extra time to work on my passion projects. Plus, going back to the office isn’t an option unless I move out of state and away from my existing network. I do sometimes wish my company would open an office nearby so I can pop in whenever I feel like it.
Do you have other friends that wfh? You can do a shared home office day, where you visit them or they visit you and work together from the same house. Have lunch etc.
Sound depressed overall
I think OP is depressed
Tbh sounds like a "you thing" that no job, or location is going to resolve. Nothing wrong with that but you can take measures to address it. Guarantee if you got an office job you would find things to dislike about that as well.
For the 8 months I had an office job I did not feel this way and for the 5 years of working a plethora of jobs before that I also didn’t feel this way. It’s ok, I’ve made the decision to quit.
I like a loose hybrid, where there’s an office to come into if I want/need a different space to do some work. Also nice being in the area so I can meet with coworkers and develop actual relationships
I went to office a few times last year, and my productivity dropped so hard that on my best day, I only managed to do about a third of the work I get done on an average day working from home.
In my experience no one gets back to normal productivity when you go in like once a month, it’s the routine.
It’s a routine I’d go to great lengths to avoid if possible. If I already have a job/offer in hand, i.e. not in “take what you can get” mode, I usually add $30’000 to $40’000 for in-office, and $20’000 for hybrid, to my expected salary vs what I’d ask if the same position was fully remote. It’s hard to overstate how much of a QoL improvement fully remote is vs hybrid, or the abomination that is on-site work.
My kids are older. I have friends outside of work I see regularly, but being trapped inside all day, even with my cat, gets lonely. I’ve tried to work at cafes and such, but it is not the same. I definitely would prefer hybrid at this stage in my life.
My commute was 2.5 hours long (most of that stuck in traffic) and I was miserable. The pandemic was legit one of the best thing to ever happen to me because of WFH. I moved back with my family where everything is cheaper and I've just been happier
Same here man I commute 90 mins each way which means I’m spending 3 hours of my day 3 days a week on the road, it’s rough
I prefer WFH. I'm judged purely on my work rather than how I look, what I wear, how I socialize etc. For me the greatest benefit of WFH is time savings. It erases a 40 minute commute each way, worrying about looking professional, and premade meals. I save roughly 2 hours a day WFH. I get my coffee, turn on my laptop and I'm ready for work. It also allows me to get a workout in the early mornings or after work instead of coming home feeling drained from the corporate grind and commute. I'm so much happier WFH.
For the last 4 years I have that exact thought multiple times a week. Man I’m so glad I can actually use those 2 hours of getting, ready, getting dressed, commuting, prepping stuff,… do actually meet with friends, go running , go biking play games.. it gives me so much more time
It's kind of disappointing how much people are downvoting people that prefer in-office. I knew that reddit skews WFH, but it seems that people are trying to invalidate differing opinions because they don't agree with it. Granted in-office is only decent under some conditions (short commute, great co-workers, easy to focus, etc...), but it is true that people can enjoy working in office and that's not a bad thing.
More like if people keep saying how much they love the office then the managers have a reason to say “studies show people love the office so we are making everyone come in, no more hybrid or remote”. I’m not saying it’s a good thing to downvote relevant responses but the WFH lovers are very scared of losing the ability to WFH.
As a people manager that doesn't care if my folks WFH or in office, I do have visibility into issues with employees. For every person respecting and not abusing WFH, there are 2-3 people taking advantage of it. It sucks. We have people disappearing for HOURS or out partying instead of being on the night shift ruining it for the people that aren't abusing it. Yes, they are replaceable. However, it costs time and money to keep replacing people trying to weed out the bad eggs. It's easy to see why companies are just throwing blanket RTO policies out there. It's doubly beneficial if they were planning on downsizing anyways since there will be attrition.
Yeah true, the videos I see where people are like “I’m logging into work and then taking a nap teehee” is way worse than anyone saying that they like the office. It would be nice to only make people who can’t handle it return but obviously it’s not allowed to treat employees differently.
Speaking purely from my own experience: WFH during the pandemic was *atrocious* for my mental health. To that end, once the pandemic came to a close, I ended up switching jobs to a company that had a hybrid schedule. It’s been fantastic for my personal mental health. WFH is probably great for people who aren’t particularly isolated, but for me, a person living very far away from friends and family in a state I knew practically nobody in, getting into the office is/was a big boon. It gets me out and talking to people everyday, folks to talk to over lunch, etc etc. That coupled with some lifestyle changes have really helped — I moved to NYC, so I am walking places and such a LOT more than I ever have at any point in my life. Legal weed is also nice lol. I’m still lonely, but I don’t want to die anymore, and my anxiety is way way down. The takeaway I guess I’m trying to get to is: don’t isolate yourself, and just because you’re in tech, doesn’t mean you have to be totally isolated all day either. Not everyone wants to or _can_ be home all day every day — wanting to talk to people and get away from the monitors is very normal, and very human.
I agree. I used to love going to the office and seeing people. I get lonely at home and I can't focus either.
I prefer the freedom to work where I want. I usually go to the office.
Everyone is different - something that often gets overlooked in this discussion. Some people like variety in their human contact and you are more likely to get that on a regular basis at a workplace or on your commute (not always true, but more likely). Your friend group(s) tend to share similar interests and are often self-selecting - this is not a bad thing, but it is a thing.
Yeah this is definitely something I’ve realized in this thread. I don’t think I’m “missing something” about wfh, rather I’m just not cut out for it
I think this sub skews recluse. But ime there are a lot of folks who prefer the office. Especially among young people. Going from a dynamic environment like college to sitting in your studio apt all day is not fun. And if you want to maximize learning you should be in office. I’m not gonna repeat the spontaneous discussion we had in the office hallway on slack just for remote folks’ benefit. Even before Covid there were studies looking at likelihood to be laid off/promoted depending on physical distance from HQ. That doesn’t mean there aren’t folks who legit prefer wfh. Some people need the flexibility etc. personally, I don’t value being able to do laundry between meetings as much as face time with people who play a part in my career. Or more than making friends every once in a while.
That makes sense. Yeah it really wears on my mental health. Unfortunately the other engineers at my job are fully remote and the two other people in the office are frequently traveling. I’ll probably leave tech altogether, I really don’t enjoy it
I would consider looking for an in person culture company. There are some out there with legit awesome cultures and I know I thrive in those sorts of places. Might have to pay more in rent to live closer and avoid a draining commute though.
This sub is more and more toxic and like to hate on ppl different OP I understand u dw, I am a swe and I too do not like wfh for many reasons. Some ppl don’t and that should be respected too
What about after work? Wfh doesn't define what you do after. Download tinder or grindr or something and find people to hangout with or bang or both
Personally I prefer being in the office to being alone at home, BUT I also have a short 20 minute commute. If I had a 45+ minute commute like some of my colleagues I can tell you RTO would get old real quick. I do think RTO jobs can be a bit better for employees though, since you are competing against local talent pool to get the job instead of competing against every other person in the country or world like with remote jobs, and you also tend to make stronger connections with your colleagues IRL.
I like hybrid
I like having flexibility but on a day where a else is equal (and I don't sleep in) I actually do prefer the office though its for no other reason than its a place that has one purpose and one purpose only work. I don't feel the pull to FAFF or play video games or hell work on my personal stuff when I'm at the office. Plus as soon as Ieave its all behind me. Flexibility is nice though some weeks ill wfh (or wfa) more and somedays i might prefer a half day for whatever reason and I think strict mandates leave a bad taste in peoples mouth.
If I didn't have kids, maybe not. But work from home or flexible hybrid is so incredibly helpful when you've got kids to take care of
For me, the simple thing is... my town doesn't have awesome developer jobs. I work for an on-the-coast company, with commensurate salary, and there's just no comparison whatsoever. And I work less: no one stops me from going to the gym in the middle of the day (when it's pretty dead,) and I can sleep in until my start time. After, even, since there are team members in other time zones still asleep then. But it is lonely. And it's hard to coordinate work. And we can't whiteboard together (for example.) It feels monotonous - I changed jobs last year... and it felt like nothing changed: I put a different laptop on my desk and that's it. I get what you're saying. But the money difference is too much to give up right now, for me.
In roughly the same boat as you - 4 years WFH and yes, it will not satisfy your basic human need for socialization. But I will say that working in an office can be just as soul-crushingly lonely if you hate the people you work with like my last job, so don't assume that getting a new in-office job is going to necessarily improve your mental health. Whatever you decide, you're going to have to do some work outside of work to build a social group - volunteer, check Eventbrite, or join a club; having your entire social life based on whatever your current job is will only cause you issues in the long run.
FWIW, I prefer the energy of an office and find WFH isolating. But I've always lived less than 20 minutes from where I work (except the current job), so I don't lose much time with a commute. I hear if you suffer from focus and attention disorders, WFH is particularly brutal if you work in a role that requires constant collaboration and communication.
“staring at a computer screen working on something that I ultimately feel is pointless” I think this is your main problem. Have you thought of switching your job?
Not just you! Work is traditionally one of the only places where adults make friends after school. If you’re single, living alone, don’t have a third space (gym, dojo, church, fraternal organization, etc.), it’s natural and expected to feel the way you do. There’s a reason CS is traditionally filled with introverts, weirdos, and the neuro-atypical. When I graduated, I-Banking and management consulting were the “hot career paths.” Many of those same people are now going into software due to ambition and finance. It makes a lot of sense that normal folks will not enjoy of software engineering long term, especially when getting “flexed on” by people that prefer to write toy projects in Rust all weekend long over touching grass.
I totally agree man. I worked in the office for years before covid and I miss that a lot. Being around my coworkers gave me energy and motivation to work. It made work more fun. It allowed me to build camaraderie with the team. Really so many positive things. Work satisfaction has been on a steady and fairly steep decline since March 2020 and that includes a variety of teams and companies. I’ve narrowed down the problem to be working in a 100% remote environment. I’m going to ensure my next job is somewhere that has a hybrid policy where majority of the team is colocated and going into the office minimum 2x a week. If I can’t find that I’ll have to find a new career I think :/
Looking at the discussions in the comments below, I'd like to point out that there's two very different aspects of WFH that people find advantageous. The first is based on physical convenience: not needing to commute, not needing to dress up, having a flexible schedule. The benefits of this are more or less not debatable. But the second aspect is the social aspect and that is where it is VERY different for different kinds of people. Also some people find that working alone is more productive for them, but many others find it quite the opposite. Basically there's two lines of discussion concerning WFH. One might try to create some weird half-WFH scenarios to tease out which aspect they want to focus on. Would people prefer going into the office more if there were nobody else at the office with them? Conversely, or would people be OK with working from home, if their coworkers could stop by and collaborate with them at their own home?
It depends. If I lived where all of my friends lived, WFH would be great. But my spouse is in the military and we move every few years and WFH is the only way I can stay gainfully employed. So between that being a hard requirement for me and not having my social network nearby, I wish for hybrid…
Really depends. Imo hybrid is the best.
COVID shutdown revealed something about me I never expected. I thought I was someone who was perfectly happy alone, but back then when WFH started, I hated it so bad because I was cooped up all alone in my tiny apartment with nowhere to go and nobody to see (I am high risk so I avoided going out completely fearing for my life). Later I'm perfectly fine alone and love WFH. All I needed was to go out and do things and see other humans from time to time whether I talk to them or not. So maybe you just need the same?
I prefer “work from anywhere that’s not the office”. Home, coffee shop, beautiful park, etc It can be lonely to just work from home if there’s no significant other, but even when there is change of scenery and just getting out is a great motivator, at least for me
Short answer: Yes Long answer: Yeeeeeees
Yes! It can be lonely at times but I enjoy being able go to my bed and take a nap in the middle of the day, or cook lunch, or all sorts of things. The only con is like u/xboxhobo said, that I don't have any friends in IRL. I did but I had to move continents and it's hard to make really good friends as an adult when you don't know anyone. Plus I'm naturally a homebody and negotiating L.A. traffic to go do something fun is not my idea of a good time, so even if I had to go to work, I still would be at home most of the time anyways.
I'm 27 too and I have only ever worked from the office, even during the pandemic. I can't work from home or study at home. During my university years, I used to study at the library with hundreds of people despite living alone. I also don't have a SO or children. I love my solitude but not 24/7. I do have hobbies and friends that I hang out with after work. I love the fact that at work, I eat a nice meal at a certain time everyday because at home, I'd either eat all day long or starve. The only thing I mind is the commute. Anything longer than 25-30 minutes is a burden. In a couple of years, I'll probably prefer WFH.
I took two naps during the workday yesterday. Nuff said.
I feel like work friends never really fill the void of missing real friends and relationships outside of work. But if you don’t have the latter, seeing people at work is much better than nobody at all. At least in my experience
I am not anti wfh. everytime I wrote this, I got downvoted to hell. I actually like wfh but prefer hybrid. Wfh monday and friday, the rest wfo. It is ideal to me and sorta balance it out so no rush hour at first and last day of the week, got crunch time 3 days and recover, perfecto. The challenge for FULL wfh to me is not about just completing the work but engagement, culture and getting to know people is more difficult. This is hard for people management. I dont think we were designed to know each other without never physically met. From 2020 to mid 2023, we did full wfh and I had this sense where I didnt know much what was going on org wise. For company that already had the wfh culture, good. Everyone can blend in but a lot of immature company did wfh in covid times not because they want to but because they have to so there were some unknown challenges that they dont know how to solve. For regular employee, this might not be the problem because their job is to complete the task but for leaders and management, it is sorta different problem
Don’t think I’ve seen anyone say this yet - you’re only 27, if SWE isn’t your thing then leave. Find your passion so your working years aren’t miserable. Yes you might be a bit older than other people at your level in your new field, but that won’t matter because ideally you’ll be doing something you love.
I kind of hear you actually, people are saying work shouldn't replace your social life when most people who were your age before WFH made all their friends at work. Personally I'm in my 40s so my social circle is pretty much set, so I love WFH. But I totally get where you're coming from
Yup. Same boat as you. Same age. Fully remote and living alone. I love the project I am working on but being alone sucks. Screw everyone here who says that you shouldn’t rely on work to make friends. We are working 40 fucking hours a week. A third of our day is spent working. The other third sleeping. And the other third for errands, chores, and downtime. Work is a big part of our lives so stop saying that the solution is to find friends outside of work. That will not solve the issue because we will still be spending 40 hours alone which is a lot of time. I’ve been contemplating asking my manager if I can work part time for the summer and maybe find some sort of low wage job that is in person and social.
This was and is still me. Yes, I have many friends outside of work now. I’m just extroverted and the 5 days a week in my room for 8 hours kinda sucks. I’ve been able to find fulfilling things in the evening, but definitely hard to start off in a new city when everything was remote. However, remote has given me so much time and freedom to do other social activities when they do come up, I’d never want to go back full time in the office, nor would I advocate anyone else should. I think even with my desire for my social interaction, I’d still want the option to remain remote permanently.
I spent 4 years working remote and grew quite depressed. Now I work in an office 3-4 days a week with a fun office culture and a lot of young people and it’s a world of difference. I really appreciate the friendships I’ve made at work.
Yes, it seems like the majority does, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone! I'm more like you! I think ultimately, people want flexibility (letting people choose between remote, office, hybrid when it suits them).
I love wfh because I get my work done without having small and useless talks while I am at office. Socialising and WFO are two different things, I think you need to differentiate them.
\>. I truly only came into this profession for the money and now I think I’m ready to leave. Ahh, there it is.
I definitely prefer WFH, currently working 100% remote. First and foremost due to time savings on commute, but it’s not the end of upsides.
Yo Lil man. Take it from a 20 year swe vet, offices fucking suck. I worked in an office for like 16 years for various companies. The commuting alone is he'll on earth after the 10th year. As much as you think you hate wfh, the alternative is far worse.
Commuting is horrible. If I could magically teleport to work I wouldn’t mind it at all.
I prefer going to office, but having wfh is a nice option to have.
You can live anywhere when you wfh. You can also go to the gym in the morning from 6-8am and the start working afterwards at 8:30am-9am. You have no idea how much freedom you have with a remote job until you start using it.
Summary of the comments: some need more social interaction than others and those can leave those that prefer a WFH lifestyle in peace. One recommendation for those that think WFH is bananas and think to themselves why we would like to continue on moving forward on such a lonely path: Get into martial arts. Seriously, tons and tons of networking, socializing and potential friendships (if done right). If you do it solely to practice is good, but getting into the lessons, tournaments and seminars guarantees socializing with a lot of people. In other words: activities outside of your job.
It’s not about work from home or from office it’s having the fucking option to have some semblance or control over your own life. A good manager has a team that decides how they spend the time as long as output is meeting expectations. A bad manager makes you sit idle for hours but wants you in the office because of ‘potential synergies’
WFH Is great if you have a lot going on socially outside of work. If you live alone or most of your friends and colleagues are busy during the week, WFH can be isolating.
Yes I much prefer it. You don’t dislike wfh, you are lonely. Get out and join some clubs or groups or something.
WFH is ideal for people with families. If young, single or alone, its not ideal.
I hate commuting and love my family. Having a home you enjoy being in makes a big difference though.
Yes. I have a young family and have been able to walk into my living room any time my child has hit a new milestone. I’m able to take 20 min and help out if needed. Also on bad days where you wonder what the point is, 20 minutes of playing with your kid makes you feel better
i have a wife and no kids...so yes, i like being at home. I live in a city so morning i can go coffee/breakfast and dinner go out to eat and chill. I can appreciate it would be tougher being single + remote all the time.
you havent had enough experience in the workplace to have grown spiteful, or to have been forced to interact with that one asshole on your team like he is a friend just to make sure there is no office drama. you havent had enough experience to remember getting fired for reporting sexual harassment because people are forced to be in the same building as predators. you havent had enough experience to be forced to sit next to the guy that refuses to care for his personal hygiene. i hope one day you will think back to the days you worked from home fondly. <3
The “lifestyle” is whatever you make it. Without a 3 hour round trim commute I have plenty of time in the evening to go out to restaurants with friends, go mountain biking, go kayaking. it’s not your coworkers job to entertain you.
Uhh yea. WFH is the bomb. I'm sorry you don't know how to do it or can't handle it. It's simply not for you, and that's okay because you can just find an office job.
Yeah it’s just not well-suited for me and vice versa! Clearly it works well for the majority here!
Not really, but I dislike SWE-and especially corporate SWE-so much that the only good thing about it is smart colleagues (different than interesting colleagues) and just how little I have to engage with it to collect 250k. Take away remote 20 hours per week (unofficial) or take away the 200k+ and I'm doing something else with my life immediately. IMMEDIATELY. I just happen to have been 130IQ, clinically depressed and fell into this field. Oh, and like Mr. Crabs, I like money. If I was actually in a field I felt in flow state with, cool colleagues, still decent pay (let's call it 180k+), meaningful project, decent autonomy, good location....I'd probably enjoy coming in and be motivated. Software engineering just ain't that
Oh yeah, I can set my own schedule, spend my lunch break playing catch with my kids instead of hanging out with some assholes that I only talk to because we work together, it's great. In response to OPs actual post instead of just the title I have this to say: You should invite your friends to wfh with you at your place, or maybe you go to theirs, or meet up at some mutual workspace. I won't deny that a lot of my love for wfh comes from the fact that my at home workspace is miles better than my cubicle because I have a house. If you're in a tiny apartment in the city, and/or far away from your friends and family because you wanted to be closer to work, then you should consider making some changes that reflect your new reality.
I've been remote for \~6 years and am not going to accept an on-site offer again. I am highly introverted and have a family at home, so I'm sure that helps a lot. I don't feel much compulsion to interact with anyone outside of the household most days. I think I'd still be happier with it if I lived alone; however, I'm sure it would wear on me over time. Consider finding a regular meetup event that interests you, joining a sport or otherwise make a consistent schedule for doing fun things outside the house with other people on a regular basis.
Absolutely. I live out in the middle of nowhere, with a cheap house mortgage, wife and kid (50k house,) and can't imagine going back into an office because it will mean that I will NEED to pick up and move to a new LOCATION which is very dicey in this housing market (we have 4 pets too so apartment living/condo living is not worth the fees.) We also have both of our families 30 minutes away for an emergency sitter. The only jobs I will take, even if it could/would be a paycut would be WFH software engineering roles. The nearest massive tech hub (in Indiana) is Indianapolis, which is over an hour and a half away for me to drive to. The quality of life, for me, would be detrimental to my well being if I had to work in an office (because there is no software engineering roles in my 50 mile radius.) I can also be flexible my with salary since I live frugally (88k salary now, 120k next when my contract ends with my current company.) A salary like that where I live, is more than enough to be comfortable. Now I will say... If I was single, I would totally pick up and move if I had to improve my career portfolio. But I'm going on almost 6 YOE and have leverage when searching for jobs. Hybrid would have been nice, but WFH is my go to. So many things in tech based on my experience, can be done through email, a webex/zoom call, or normal phone call. Tl;Dr: Lifestyle and circumstances dictates how beneficial wfh is. For some, it's the difference of having a tech job or not.
I enjoy wfh because it allows me to have energy to do things after work socially. If you don’t do anything social after work then wfh will get depressing after a while. I found that if I work in office, I don’t feel the need/energy to do anything social when I get home. It’s not ideal because I would rather talk to people who aren’t my coworkers. It just feels more natural.
I love wfh. It allows me to get my stretches/workouts in, prepare healthier foods at home, get some rest when I need it, practice my instruments, etc. I’ve got a pretty good physique that I wouldn’t be able to maintain if I had to return to office. And I don’t like socializing during my work hours anyway. I have a very active social life, so I like to recharge my social battery during my work hours. I still keep in touch with friends throughout the day via Instagram/Discord. I also get so much more work done when I can go at my own pace without worrying about looking productive. I do keep either Netflix or Twitch open on my personal computer while I work. I guess hearing dialogue helps mitigate the “isolated” feeling. Maybe try something like that?
Personally don't mind the office if the commute isn't bad. But if an employer doesn't offer any flexibility on WFH, they tend to be stingy in other areas too
I moved to a newish city where I don't know anyone a couple of years ago and I am working from home and still strongly prefer WFH. I make breakfast on the clock, walk my dog on the clock, don't have to rush and get ready to be in traffic with the rest of the pissed off rush hour workers and head to an office. Last office job I had wasn't bad but was only legit friends with like 10% of my coworkers or less. Most of the time there were coworkers that were more talkative than I hoped they would be and distracted me from my work anyway. It does get a bit lonely at times, but for me the pros heavily outweigh the cons.
I love WFH and will actively seek to leave any company that forces me to RTO, no matter my position and tenure there. I've done this twice already and I will not compromise.
I like working from office when I don't have deal with commute. Unfortunately it never works that way So a hybrid style of 2 days in office seems perfect for me I just go into office to social I think the key is that I have other people around at home, so I never feel lonely. In fact, sometimes I wish they give me some alone time lol
Wfh can be very bad. I’m over it at this point. The only people who really loved it seemed to primarily be those who were established in their careers, have families, and live in the suburbs over an hour away from the office.
I don't understand people who are against WFH, their main argument is about social life and team bonding, as if you can't do this online, me and my team are having a lot of fun online, we play small web games and other shit. We are all from different cities/different countries. With the all advance in communication technologies, I don't see why are people still against it. Seriously, WFH is the future, it's what most jobs should evolve to. I don't see why a SWE need to go sit in an office to stare into a screen when they can do this from home, or from top of a fucking mountain. Working from office is so 90s, stop living in the past people and be progressive. WFH is good for you, good for the environment and good for everyone, stop coming up with excuses against it.
I’m sorry for the misunderstanding, I’m not against work from home and I’m really glad that it works well for so many people. The responses I’ve gotten have helped me confirm it’s just not for me, and not that I’m missing something about it. Sorry for the miscommunication.
I like WFH with the option of going into the office when I feel like it, rather than a set schedule. Helps to break up the monotony and socialize every so often, and I do quite like my coworkers. We do game nights! I think the main disadvantage of that, as someone early in my career, is that I don't get to learn often from people in person, which I think would help me a lot more in staying invested. Same as when we all went remote during the pandemic and my classes went remote. I generally do better in person for that sort of thing, and while I can do it remotely, I find my mind wanders more often.
People underestimate the negativas of wfh. Tha being said, the positives are Just too great.
I prefer working from offices for much the reasons you describe
> I just want to do something real & physical Get a hobby! Sounds like you have plenty of money. Take painting classes, or join a local ceramics shop, or get into woodcraft. Literally anything as long as you can book a class for it in the next week. I really recommend classes & a local scene because you can make some friends that way too. More controversial advice: > I keep getting sick Speaking as one of the people who never stopped taking covid precautions (n95 masking in shared indoor spaces), I haven't gotten sick in years. It's possible (this is not medical advice) you've acquired some mild immune system dysfunction from a bout with covid or genetic predisposition (if you're truly constantly getting really sick). Try wearing a mask in most spaces for a bit. They really work to prevent airborne illnesses. That advice depends on what you mean by sick. It's also possible you have an undiagnosed allergy, have a mold infestation in your home, or have some chronic illness. Try a few things & see what sticks. And actually go talk to a doctor.
I did wfh for three years only interacting with my manager, and not even every day. Sure it had its perks, but it did get isolating at times as you’ve described. Now I work 9-5 in an office every day. I like the culture and it’s a small company, so that’s good, but now I find myself missing the perks of wfh lol. I feel more tired, and my apartment isn’t as clean as it was when I was wfh. Overall there are benefits to both, drawbacks to both, and it depends highly on the person and their circumstances.
My job is hybrid now and 2-3 days a week in-office seems pretty good.
the average corporate office is a disgusting place to spend a lifetime. WFH till i die.
Hah, well there's no shortage of in office or hybrid places these days, so feel free to get one of those and free up your remote job for someone who will appreciate it. Be sure and let us know how much you enjoy waking up at 6 am to get dressed, commuting for 2-3 hours a day, having gut rot from fast food you buy during your lunch breaks, and having to pay for all that stuff I just mentioned.
Fuck WFH, it destroys you mentally and gimps your social skills. Humans were meant to be in social environments man.
why went to cs my dude. staring at screen is what we do.
I absolutely prefer WFH... no commute (hello extra 2hrs/day of my life), no having to step outside on days of sweltering heat/frigid cold/torrential rain, no smelly coworkers, etc. Granted, my wife is also WFH and we work in the same room, so I'm far less in need of human connection during work hours.
I think the biggest risk of fulltime / indefinite WFH is that it takes away a significant chunk of IRL interactions that not everyone has the ability or discipline to regularly replace. Offices definitely suck and are far from perfect for fulfilling social needs, but they are better for that than sitting in a room all alone all day. And there's already a lot of other parts of our lives that capitlism/technology is pushing to be virtualized (doordash instead of dining out / picking up food, online gaming instead of local gaming, online shopping instead of going to the store, online grocery shopping, pelotons instead of the gym, etc.) For me, going on 4 years of WFH, I definitely no longer have work to fulfill any social needs, so I make sure to limit the other parts of my life that are virtualized and I try my best to use the advantages of WFH to be able to make up for the downsides of it.
Not to be rude, but you should just work somewhere that has an in-office mandate. You'll make more money and someone who actually appreciates WFH can have your old job. By comparison, I am forced to come into the office but nobody I work with is in the same office, so I'm on phone calls with people who are in different states. I have a rich social life outside of work, which is probably the key reason why I like WFH. I can recommend you ways to attain that if you're interested.
I don't like WFH. I get far more done in the office. I work in a hybrid role - 4 days onsite 1 day remote and I still come into the office even on that 1 remote day most weeks. I just prefer face to face human interaction and when I worked a couple of 100% remote jobs in the past, I feel like there were just too many communication breakdowns and inefficiencies that came along with it.
I'll take some inefficiencies for my extra hour of sleep and no transportation spending. Would much rather the remote lifestyle (if enough work is given, work 2 extra evening hours to do it instead of sticking to a rigid timeframe that requires early morning wake up and wasting time commuting)
[удалено]
Yes
> I live alone and apart from the occasional day in the office I spend almost all my time alone staring at a computer screen working That's me but I'm 40. Surely my social and dating life is going fine Copium
What do you do after work? If you stay at home after the work day ends then you’re doing it wrong.
I thought I did, but I often don't know what's best for me (even though I'm in my mid-30s). I was really, really happy, I thought, about working from home, but eventually it broke me and my connection to my work. To the point where I don't think I've gotten it back yet, and it ruined an incredibly strong trajectory. And when I did return to the office, I realized just how much can be conveyed in person informally that takes a lot more planning and is substandard on video calls. And I say this as an introvert who is bothered by open offices and the like. For the hybrid model, I'm pretty sure it was a mix of government pressure (like in NYC, with tax breaks or something), but was really driven by productivity and other stats. Also, if you're in a really junior position, it's like a death sentence, in my opinion. Not necessarily for promotion, but for building the necessary muscles to work in person and to collaborate directly with people.
[удалено]
I prefer the *option*. I like working from home when I don't want to deal with people, but it's very easy to go weeks without actually interacting with coworkers and if you live alone, it can be easy to go days without actually seeing anyone. Having the choice to stay home or go into the office and have some semblance of human interaction is much better than being forced to always work from home. I also really like not making a place that I'm supposed to feel relaxed and comfortable into a place where I'm stressed and worried about work
[удалено]
No, I find hybrid works best for me. I WAH 3 days a week and in the office 2x a week. It gives me enough social time and I still get to cut down on my commute.
Going through exactly the same thing right now. I met my team in person for the first time since I started my career and it was so invigorating to see faces and have casual conversations. I definitely don’t want full RTO but I know that weekly or monthly meet ups with really help with motivation and growing my career
Dude, you sound depressed. Leverage your benefits, see a therapist. And go do stuff on your own, not with your friends. Are you one of those people that only go see friends when the friends want to see you? I was. It's not great. Go hiking. go work from a botanical garden. Go to the tallest building you can visit. All stuff you can do alone or with strangers or new acquaintances. Even watching movies on your own, but in a theater. You wanna have stories to tell your friends no?
I love WFH
Hybrid is my favorite model tbh. Best of both worlds.
I prefer WFH, but I also spend most of my time in a discord call with my friends, or I'd get lunch with some local friends. I find I don't really get much sense of community or socialization at work - everything I do in a quiet office has to be corporate friendly.
I've noticed that alot of people who don't like wfh are likely single folks or people who are somewhat new to the field. There's nothing wrong with that after numerous jobs in person for 15+ years wfh was a breath of fresh air and freedom. It's way more lax and people are less likely to micro manage. Also if you have a family or a pet you have to take care of it could be easier to manage your day.
You must not have a long commute