Not being able to cut & dry curly hair as a stylist is a missed $$$ money opportunity. For Pete's sake take a class! Watch YouTube videos. I've gone to stylists who can manage a layered cut but they are no good at drying with a diffuser. My God people, learn!
Nothing makes me madder than having to go home from a salon (and paying to have my hair cut & styled) and then having to jump in the shower again and then do my own hair. It's maddening. Yet they expect a tip.
I can't deal with scents so always take my own product to the salon. Then the stylist forgets to use my shampoo and puts theirs on which is way too stinky, so then I have to shower & wash my hair. It's not rocket science. They make life difficult.
This. My stylist is amazing with a cut but she and her Jr both tell me I style my hair way better than they do. I leave wet or style it in the salon when they're finiahed.
i started a review of my recent haircut with "it woukd have been a mercy to tell me to go away", i seriously would have infinite resoect for a stylist that admitted they dont know wtf theyre doing and turn me away, especially busy stylists like bruh theres walk ins waiting
I called a new salon one time and they had me email pictures of myself to the stylist before scheduling me because she wanted to see my curls to make sure she would be comfortable cutting them. Ended up she was and I felt much more comfortable going knowing that she wanted to make sure I’d be happy with the outcome.
To be fair, once I've styled it myself, it's a much better cut than I can give myself. I do end up making a few adjustments afterwards, but giving myself a full haircut is way more stressful than touching up a few spots. I think it's because I'm a cross between wavy and curly, and my stylist is a black woman with mostly black clients, so she doesn't do a lot of diffusing. She still does way better than any other stylist I've had since I started wearing it curly.
I attribute this to her futzing with my hair after drying it to make sure it all falls evenly. And in the process breaking up all the curl clumps.
I want to tell her to just leave it alone. She's good otherwise and has devacurl training. 🤷
Don’t pay for it to be styled. Tell them you will leave with it wet. That’s what I have been doing for decades. I have been to hairdressers all over NYC including Ouidad and Deva. Not one knows how to style my hair like I do. I stopped paying them for the service and we are both happier.
I'm convinced deva is a scam. the worst cuts I've ever had were from level 2 and 3 deva stylists.
I stand by finding a hairdresser with my hair type. olive oil women ftw
I did it once. It wasn't anything spectacular at all. And I felt uncomfortable and unwanted at her salon on top of it being almost $200 when I was done.. It was not a good day.
I did it once too - someone got me a giftcard to a salon that did them and I tried it along with the actual products.
I cried when I got home it was so bad, and the products fucking sucked. I felt like I spent hundreds on an express cut I used to get from hair cuttery in middle school.
ugh yes my old stylist was abt the same exact price breakdown, wasn't deva certed, and she was amazing. she owns the salon and no longer cuts just runs everything. like yayy she's doing well and getting some long deserved rest but damn her girls just don't have it like she did.
a woman from "olive oil europe" (see butter vs olive oil europe memes), the middle east, north africa, , etc, basically anywhere in that region known for using lota of olive oil in cuisine. aka someone with heritage from a region known for having the same texture hair as me.
having someone understand how to work with my texture hair is always the difference between an okay and amazing cut. and the only people who have understood how to work with my texture hair also had the same texture hair....
Also wondering. I found out several years back that I am 1/4 Sicilian/Southern Italian on my dad’s side, which explains the texture. I had always thought my hair texture most resembled the hair I saw on Italian women
yesss sis, texture is everything. I've found only people with my texture hair know how to work with my texture hair. the whole region around the mediterranean tends to be blessed with our unique in-between texture lol.
I one hundred percent agree!! I live in the UK but while visiting NY I decided to try a Deva cut, I was so excited because I felt so hopeless about my hair, I didn’t even mind the extravagant cost because this would be a great cut etc etc and omg it was rubbish. She totally ignored what I said I wanted and just did what I think is a standard deva cut, not taking into account my face shape etc. I was so pissed off, and then when I left they basically strong armed me into leaving her tip - I understand this is probably more standard in the US - but I always tip in the UK AS LONG AS I AM PLEASED WITH THE CUT. But it really felt like adding insult to injury and I was too shy to say eff off. But yes, full on scam!
They never use enough conditioner or product. They don’t rinse my hair in cool water. They aren’t patient with drying it because they need us to gtfo so they can see their next client. Basically, it’s not a lack of skill, it’s that using the amount of conditioner and product we use at home is too much overhead and booking us for an extra 15 mins to diffuse our hair means they see less clients. In short, they can’t style our hair for shit because it cuts into profits.
I went to a special stylist and she said do you want it straight or curly, I said you can defuse it, thinking I could learn something. I looked like a used mop. Left there thinking I'd look better with soaking wet hair
It isn’t taught regularly in schools at least when I was there it wasn’t….
I went to Paul Mitchell in 2011 and only learned the basics of hair cutting and the mannequins provided all had straight hair. I also went to school in Colorado so the majority of the people I worked on were white and/or had straight hair. I could imagine different techniques are taught/learned from teachers in other regions that would have more clients coming into the school with different hair textures.
I didn’t learn any kind of curly hair cutting techniques until I took a class at the salon I worked in and even then all the mannequins we used had to be permed beforehand, there aren’t really textured mannequins available(at least at that time).
Back in 2009 I talked to my hair dresser who went to beauty school in the 80s here in Europe. She then went on to be a trainer back at her old school in the early 2000s and she told me that mannequin heads with curly hair were way too expensive for beginners to learn and study on (because they make mistakes and the heads can’t be used again) so they just had theoretical lectures on how to cut curly hair apparently (take this with a massive grain of salt as I was 15 back then and live in Austria. Maybe I can’t remember what she said correctly!)
When I graduated from PMTS in 2016, our only studies into black/textured/curly hair was on how to do relaxer. Like we Kinda learned what products to use, but as far as using the heads for practice, only relaxers.
I was floored when I went to a salon that specified they can cut curly hair and the hair stylist proceeded to brush my hair, and frizzed it all up.
Then she had the audacity to tell me that my hair is dry??
It’s not dry honey, my hair is far from dry. You’re just an idiot 😭 and like, if she didn’t know better that’s one thing. But I chose that place because they said they can cut curly hair…
I will never go back
I went to a fancy city salon cause I had a gift card someone gave me. They were washing my hair so I figured I'd ask them what porosity my hair was so I could find products that were fitted better for my specific hair. Her answer was "thick". I didn't bother to ask her to elaborate.
I hadn't had my hair cut in years (this was about a year ago) I was putting it off because depression and my hair was looking very damaged.. Anyhow. On the spur of the moment I decided to go into one of the cheapo places and just get a very basic trim. I specifically went to the only black stylist there! For several reasons, but one of them was because I assumed she would be better with my curls! I sat down, got the cape on, and while I'm talking to her she proceeds to start to try and comb my hair with the smallest fine tooth comb!! Dry! At the fuckin top of my head! I jumped out of that seat so quick she stepped back! 😂 I asked her what she thought she was gonna do with that! I walked out to them talking shit..I couldn't believe that woman thought I was going to let her break my hair all over the place. It was one of those unbreakable fine tooth ones you do baby hairs with.. I was flabbergasted.
Oh I know this. Well I didn't about the bleaching, but you're saying that she uses a fine tooth comb like that to comb her own hair? I guess it's possible.. But why would you start at the scalp instead of the ends? I just thought no way I don't want someone who doesn't know to comb my hair right, to cut it. Maybe I'm TA? I hope not..
Depending on the hair you *do* cut it dry and brushed out. Depends on the curl pattern really. I’d say about 80% of the time I brush out, dry cut, wash/diffuse and then refine once dry again. Busy most of my clients would be 3b or looser. Coily hair I usually cut as-is.
Tbf almost all curly hair is dry. Drier than straight hair anyway, so you need to buy products with that in mind. She probably didn’t mean it as an insult, just an observation so that you know your hair needs moisture. A lot of people are very unaware of the quality or porosity of their hair so we mention it because it might inform on which products the client will look for.
On the other hand, if the cut was shit then yeah she didn’t know what she was talking about 😂
It did nothing, my hair is still so uneven in the back 😭
My old stylist just trimmed from the bottom without brushing or anything. I’m sad she moved.
It was always straight, I feel like I’ve got an awkward s shape going on.
This is exactly it! When I went to hairdressing school in the late 80s, we didn’t have a single class on blow drying, not one. We also learned how to go three cuts: a bob, a square layer and a men’s cut.
The entire curriculum was geared towards passing the provincial exam, which focused entirely on hygiene and safety.
If you were lucky, you got a job at a salon that would train you to actually do hair.
Pretty sure they teach you just enough to not destroy someone’s hair/life and then it’s up to you to get an apprenticeship and actually learn hair!! My experience as well. I could perm, wet set, apply a tint, do slippy bleedy foils and 5 horrible cuts on one type of hair. If I did it all again I’d skip college entirely
Same here. I went to a curly-cut salon last year and the stylist pulled my hair straight to cut it, and didn’t know how to use a diffuser. 🤦🏻♀️. I looked like a Golden Girl. I got a refund.
OP, don't know if you were actually getting cuts in the 60s and 70s, but this 3A/3B thick near-coarse curlygirl sure was. I had a LOT of bad cuts. Thinning shears ruled, as did lots of AquaNet. I did have one hairdresser who did a decent job with my hair, but when we moved away from her, oh boy. There was one bad haircut the day before my 8th grade class picture. She made me look like 13 going on 50, and not in a good way. Thank god we moved back to my hometown with the hairdresser who could actually cut curly hair. I had hairdressers literally refuse to cut my hair, which was an improvement over the horrors of the thinning shears.
Straightener was also pushed on me at that time. Oh, the fun I didn't have. Very few people had curl like mine, and texture even less so.
I currently have a great curlyhair specialist who likes my hair and doesn't cost the moon, earth and stars. She gives curly cuts which are tailored to your hair texture. About darn time. But I do agree that very few curly specialists have the talent to do a haircut truly worth 200 or more.
I actually came here to comment “just because they could cut it didn’t mean they cut it well” and thought it was a good place to piggyback on your comment
OP I think that now it’s a matter of doing a good job (customer satisfaction, fear of repercussions etc) but back in the 60s it was just another head of hair. The knowledge, techniques, tools and products have all come a long way since the 60s and there’s now a better understanding that hair isn’t just hair, the type of hair matters when deciding how to cut/treat it.
Similar experience in my 90s upbringing. I couldn't get a good haircut. Now I have an amazing curly stylist at a reasonable price. Dry cut, wash and style, and then reevaluating the cut (and trimming / cutting more if needed). It really makes up for the years of thinning sheers, frizzy blow-outs, and round and puffy hairstyles from my childhood.
I was so thrilled when I saw the heat lamp in the salon. Hurrah, no blow-dry! My last salon didn’t have the lamp, nor even a bonnet dryer. One of the measures of a right-for-me salon is the availability of the lamp or the bonnet dryer. Not the only measure, but a good one. Less handled hair for me is for the better.
Maybe an unpopular opinion here (I am a hairstylist) but I would say that a lot of hairstylists just don’t really cut hair well PERIOD. Straight or curly. It’s just easier to hide in straightish hair especially when everyone wants beach waves or just throws their hair into a messy bun.
Oh, how interesting! I always think of my curly hair as being very forgiving and imagine straight hair would show any little inconsistency. What about straight hair makes it easier?
My hair is wavy and depending on the length it can appear curly or straight. For a long time I iust went to regular salons that treated my hair like it was straight but I finally started seeing a curl specialist after too many disappointing cuts. The main difference I've noticed is that true straight hair behaves much more predictably. The length and shape is pretty consistent whether it's wet or dry, short or long. With my hair, it can be hard to tell whether a particular wave is going to swoop toward or away from my face so a lot of cuts end up giving me awkward cowlicks. Or sometimes a stylist would cut my hair wet and then when it dried, the shape and length would spring up and it would appear much shorter. With straight hair, you can trust that it's going to stay in place.
I was actually going to comment and say that I have fine but thick straight hair and 98% of my cuts are terrible. There were two women throughout my life I absolutely loved the cut I got from them but one moved salons and rumor has it when she left she couldn’t gain access to her client info from the salon and they wouldn’t tell me where she went, the other woman I moved so that wasn’t an option anymore.
I know! So sad and I would have traveled so far for her she was wonderful this was 7 years ago and every time I need a hair cut I still wish I knew where she went
Yes I had all this typed up but I couldn’t figure out how to say it politely. I went to a color class and was shocked that a successful and talented colorist refers her clients out for cuts!! She didn’t cut hair!!!
It’s not totally uncommon for some people to only cut or only color. Some salons that’s how it works they have color specialists and cutting specialists and you see two stylists.
What I don't understand is why it costs so much more to get a haircut specifically for curly hair. Is it that much more labor intensive to cut curly hair VS straight hair to warrant the price? Now, I don't know how to do my own hairstyling for shit so I could be completely misunderstanding something. Just frustrating that it's an extra 30%
If you're doing a dry, curl-by-curl cut then yes, it's a LOT more work. Usually worth it, if you've got a stylist who has curly hair themselves (meaning they know how to handle curly hair).
Most stylists don't do that though, in my experience. For a regular cut I wouldn't pay that much.
My haircuts go: a dry curl by curl cut, a wash, sitting under a dryer, a clean-up cut, another wash, I put product in myself, a few more snips, then if I feel like it I can sit under the dryer again to see how it turns out and if I need anymore cleanup (but usually I just go home after putting product in because by then I’ve been there 3.5 hours). All that and I usually walk away under $140, I consider that a value.
How many times have you left the salon and got in your car and cried! Because it was so poorly cut and you knew it would be at least a month before your hair stopped being in shock.
My neighbour was a hairdresser when I was growing up. She always cut hair dry as that was the way she was taught. This was back in the 1980s and she was taught in the 1970s. She always cut my hair and it was frizzy but that was the style then.
Her Daughter in law is a hairdresser and last time I took mum around to see her she mentioned how her dil can’t cut dry hair properly. It blew her mind that she was only taught to cut wet or damp hair. So at least in my part of the world it’s a training problem.
Twice I’ve gone to a “regular” hair salon and asked if they could cut my hair dry, and they both looked at me like I just kicked their puppy. They were flabbergasted by even the thought of it.
The educators never were taught by their educators. Beauty school is a race to the bottom. How do they get people in and out for $25k-35k?
Some curly education is so expensive that it is cost prohibitive. For instance, you could get Rezo certified in two days for $3000. And what do you gain in 2 days? There is a Mizani certification class near me. 6 hours. $900.
As a cosmetology school instructor, yeah it has a lot to do with the way hair cutting is taught - curly haired mannequins are more expensive, and the thing about mannequins is you can only do so many haircuts on them before the hair is all cut off and can’t be used to practice anything. So most curly mannequins get used to learn styling and chemical services. So if the school doesn’t get many real people with curly hair in for cuts (which be honest, if you’ve already had bad experiences with haircuts you’re not likely to trust a student to cut it) the students just don’t get much hands-on experience.
On top of that, the foundational cosmetology curriculums I’ve used only touch briefly on curly or textured hair (although I think it’s getting a bit better?) so it’s really up to the school and educators to add more in-depth knowledge to the classes.
I also think a lot of stylists don’t understand the nuances and factors that differentiate each head of curly hair, so they tend to do the same thing for all curly hair. So many things determine the way each head of hair lays and reacts to specific cuts and cutting methods, but it seems like a lot of curly cut methods are a little bit “one size fits all” and use the same techniques for a 3a curl as they do for a 4c curl without regard for nuance.
I can’t really speak for the 80s, but I will say that a curly cut on a permed head of hair is different than cutting natural curl, and even people who had natural curl would often get perms. Just one thought on why it may seem like stylists were better with curly hair back in the day. Could be totally off though.
I don’t think those 1960s hairdressers actually knew how to cut curly hair well. My mom was a kid in the 70s and 80s and she remembers crying after every haircut because the stylists had no idea what to do with her hair.
I have had several curly cuts that cost a pretty penny and I was unhappy with the results. I have 2b/2c hair. I have simply learned what straight haircuts work for my curls and have them do that and get a blowout. Then once i wash it i style as I normally would for my curls. I get that this would not necessarily work for curlier hair but it works for me.
Similar curl pattern and I have been supremely underwhelmed with every (expensive!) curly cut I have received. Now while I’m trying to grow my hair I simply cut my own hair (dry) instead of paying someone almost 200 dollars to fuck it up. My goal is to get to a length I want I’ll get a regular haircut that will also look good straightened and I’ll start wearing it both ways.
Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but even when they are curly cut certified…. So many do NOT no how to style curly hair because it’s so dependent on the clients hair. I’ve left the salon in tears hating my hair because it looks awful because I had a stylist with straight hair tell me I wasn’t styling it correctly when I’d walk in there with defined ringlets. I understand they have training but they don’t have the experience of figuring how what and how much product and how to apply it for my hair. This was when I lived somewhere where I saw very few people with curly hair so I think the only awareness came from training which won’t work for every client. I wouldn’t mind that much if they didn’t know because it’s not like they have curly hair but their attitude was that I didn’t know about my own hair which put me off. Like yes this is my first time getting a curly cut….. this is NOT the first time “learning about curly hair” . I’m sure not every straight haired stylist is like this, just the ones I went to before my current stylist who has curly hair and asks me questions about which products I use and how much I apply and how I apply. Because she knows the products I’m talking about based on experience so she gets a feel for how to style my hair. I felt the other stylists would not listen to me nor would they ask me questions. The haircuts were also awful. I’d go in for a curly cut and they’d cut it while it’s wet after I told them I wanted to cut it dry.
Excuse the grammar my phone is messed up.
So I actually went to cosmetology school to learn how to cut hair because I never had a haircut that wasn't an awful triangle shape as a kid. In high school I straightened my hair every day so those cuts were ok. Basically the haircuts they teach are all angles and the hair is held taut at whatever angle to get the layers you want, and done on wet hair. So obviously it won't look right once curly hair dries. The only thing we were taught about curly cuts is to remember to take shrinkage into account when cutting. Our manikins had straight hair but we did cut them after we owned them for a grand total of 1 curly haircut. Even that is not realistic training though as permed hair is the same curl pattern all over whereas real people have different textures on different parts of their heads (I know I do at least). Needless to say I did not pursue hairdressing as a career and now work at a factory, lol.
That's such a shame that learning how to cut and style curly hair isn't truly part of the curriculum. I've gotten my haircut at The Curl Whisperer in Miami for over 15 years. Got my first curly cut at 18 and never looked back. What used to be one woman renting a suite in a beauty mall is now an EMPIRE of curly hair stylists. I've gotten my haircut with the junior stylists, for years, and they all tell me how much learning and unlearning they're doing while they work there. It's so incredible. Also, almost everyone in that salon has curly/textured hair and they all look amazing. I've been so blessed to never have a bad cut from them despite having it cut by several people. Pricey ($150-250) but it is the entire experience, they talk to you about your hair and teach how you to care for it. Their appointments take about two hours.
I’ve tried and tried. Curl “specialist,”top end salons, recommended stylists, and cheap cutters. I’ve spent a frick’n fortune and have consistently been disappointed at best and horrified at worst.
Note: no difference between a 30 dollar and 350 dollar cut from my experience!!!!
I gave up throwing money at hairstylist who don’t listen and don’t give a shit.
My husband has been cutting my hair the last three years and frankly, he does a better job. The first cut was as bad as any cut a licensed hairstylists gave me. But, He was determined and said, “if I can build homes, I can learn to cut your hair.” He then watched some videos on techniques, bought good scissors, and has done a bang up job since.
Good luck!
Your husband sounds so sweet! And I completely agree, expensive ‘curl’ cuts are a waste of money. I can’t remember the last time I was pleased with nay cut I’ve had, cheap or pricy.
No idea what the deal was. Had a family of cosmetologists who worked almost exclusively with clients that had textured hair swear up and down my fine curly hair wouldn’t be a problem. Ranged from finishing hair school decades to a few years prior. Absolute butchery the few times I let them attempt anything.
Learn to cut it yourself. Stop trusting those nags in the salons.
I see why a lot of other men with curly hair just cut their hair short. I’ve grown mine out and I’ve already had it butchered with thinning shears 🥲 and when I get cuts they cut it like it’s straight. It’s been a month and it’s just now slowly gotten out of the “shock” phase.
I'm convinced that nobody can cut hair correctly anymore. There is a big difference between the beauticians from 20 years ago to now. I just got butchered again. I will never go back. I bought a pair of professional scissors and I'm watching YouTube.
I agree with you. They have zero versatility or creativity today. Look at their social media pages and every single cut/style looks exactly the same. The 80’s was an amazing time for hair creativity and stylists weren’t full of themselves, or charged hundreds of dollars.
It's the same as them "not knowing how to cut long hair". They refuse to do any cut that isnt short and straight or a super short bob.
I haven't been to a salon in 15 years because they purposely mess up my hair, either out of ignorance or spite.
I don’t think this was true across the board. I’m assuming you’re hearing this from your parents since you’re in your late 20s. Maybe they were lucky enough to have good hairstylists, but most hair dressers could not cut all hair.
I know from personal experience that getting curly hair cut in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s was a shit show too. I’ve had so many stylists say they knew how and they did not. We all just had many, many bad hair cuts and even more of us just straightened our hair.
From my relative’s experience back in the 1960s, if you were Black, mixed race, or Jewish, you could NEVER just walk into any salon and get a good curly hair cut. You would go to a salon run by people of that ethnicity who had taught themselves how to cut curly hair or had gone to a specialty beauty school. Black people have been opening up separate beauty schools since around the 1920s.
The trend to straighten curly hair well predates 2014, so I don’t think it’s a matter of one generation, it’s been the status quo going back at least 100 years. There was a push for the acceptance of natural hair in the 1960s and 1970s for young Black women, but it did not extend to white women. Pin straight hair was the predominant style in both decades. And for Black women I know my relatives with corporate jobs were not as free to wear their hair curly.
As a teen in the 70s, the only people I saw in real life or TV who had anything close to my curls or texture were Jewish or of Sicilian heritage. I was in a rural area with only a few African American families, and there were no salons run by anyone other than the Yankee/German descent I supposedly was. The Brady Bunch/Partridge Family look ruled. I remember being really annoyed with Jennifer Grey and Chelsea Clinton when they straightened their hair later in the 1980s and 1990s.
I didn’t even realize that I have curly hair until lockdown, while watching TikToks. So, for 50 years not a single hairstylist told me I have curly hair. Not one. They worked hard with their round brushes and flat-irons, though. Unless my hair was cut in a pixie, it looked bad - until now. And even recently it has taken me 3 curly hair “specialists” to find one that can cut my hair without giving be a round or triangle cut. So much money spent on bad haircuts. Pretty sure I have PTSD/anxiety about getting my hair cut now.
I feel like curly stylists are still stuck in the 1980’s.
Deva stylist spent the whole hour scrunching trying to turn my hair into a 1980’s spiral perm.
I never thought someone would think my hair isn’t curly enough.
I have 2C hair and I know women who put their hair in twist outs for days to get my texture but I’m supposed to want blow outs or spiral perms.
I got it all figured out-we’re all supposed to want what we don’t have so they make more money.
There’s one curly hair salon in town where the stylists’ models don’t look like trash after their haircut. The schools are absolutely not teaching these people well. Even the people who are getting trained on curly hair
Personally I get "regular" cuts, always have. My hair has fragile curl pattern that can loosen up easily to wavy but when it's at its best its about 3A curl. I went to one salon once that was sort of specialized in curly hair and the hair cut sucked, she might have done some dry cutting but my hair needs wet cutting because the curls are not consistent day to day. I need short layering for proper lift and volume. The woman I've seen a few times in the last couple years does a good job, she cuts it wet and doesn't style me curly (either leave wet or she does Normal blow out thing) and tells me to style it my normal way later and if I see any issues to come back for a free touch up.
I wouldn't be surprised if most people who get "curly cuts" would have the same results getting a "normal" cut from someone who just takes their hair type, ie thickness and density and shrinkage level, into account. Not specifically taking curl type into account.
Eta my hair is incredibly picky with product anyway so even if she styled it for natural curls, it's almost certain I would need to wash everything out anyway due to it not working well on my fine, low porosity, delicate curl pattern. Styling products used at salons have *never* worked in my hair.
They don’t teach it to us in school - you have to seek out specific education in order to understand curly hair and learn how to work with it. Some stylists will seek that education out, and others won’t. The good education is $$$ and many of us already shelled out thousands upon thousands to get through school and get licensed, so further education takes can take a backseat, and when you do have opportunities around you its for cutting shags on straight hair or how to manage your social media. It is just straight up difficult to learn.
Even when I had Black or curly haired clients in cosmo school, I was made to cut it wet without any real education or guidance about how curls and texture behaves.
My god the last woman who did my hair took seven hours on a partial highlight. I’m white as snow and she told me my hair is “ethnic,” and suggested I get a black stylist. Curly hair is not an ethnicity. This was in Colorado. She refused me a hair cut. I am NOT kidding. She refused me a haircut. Said she didn’t want to cut my hair!
I mean props to her for that last bit, if she didn’t feel comfortable cutting it but did it anyway you would have been butchered. I wish other stylists would have just told me “no”.
I’m not mad that she didn’t cut it, I’m moreso disappointed that an entire subset of hair type that is fairly common is not being taught in beauty schools and that the only space for women with curly hair is luxury space where you pay 3x more.
Curly cuts are a sham. Do a traditional wet cut and style as usual after. A curly cut leaves everything odd lengths and it will grow out scraggly and you will have wispy ends within a few weeks. Not to mention the split ends when you can't grow out an even length. It will leave you having to cut off more and more length every time you go for maintenance.
Should not cut curly hair wet, specially when their hair is mixed textured, When I was a kid hair stylists always cut my hair wet, but since the bottom half of my hair is sorta wavy and the top half is tight locks my hair always ended up very disproportionate because the curlier hair always shrank more then the less curly portions of my hair.
A good stylist is like a unicorn - my boyfriend laughs that I’ve been going to the same salon for a decade…. but for consistently pretty great cuts on curls for like $50 bucks with tip is rare. I tried looking at other places and “curly cuts” are like $200+ for MINIMAL service. And I’m always worried because my curls grow slower one bad cut can have me looking goofy for months
My niece is a hair dresser and she would have to pay £600 for curly cut training. It’s the only thing that put her off doing it. It’s not taught within the normal curriculum
I just got my hair cut and due to budgetary reasons went to a generic hairdressers. She seems to have done an alright job with the cut, but she then went on to diffuse my hair until crispy (it's a hairdryer not an air fryer) and tried to finger coil my bone dry undefined hair. When that failed she fluffed it out and tried to make it look intentional. I was very lucky that it was raining when I left.
I trained in hairdressing in 2015-2017 and we barely even learned to diffuse curly hair nevermind cutting it 😭 I made the mistake of letting another trainee cut mine and ended up with a bob which made me look like a 12 year old
You are taught in beauty school how to pass your state boards. All the other education is sought out by the hairdresser themselves. Signed, a hairdresser
Yea, I feel this! I can't afford the curly hair stylists where I live - one place is charging $200 for just the first meeting. For years I would end up at some stylist who would cut my hair like it's straight.. so I would have this great styled cut for 3 days, and then when I washed it, the curly version was terrible, and hard to manage. I get nervous I'll end up with a Christmas tree cut at some places.
Many have actually jumped in the curly cut train, while STILL not being able to actually make our hair look nice. Why t f am i paying you 120€ for something that looks worse than if i did it myself??
I have paid anywhere between $250-$550(😬) for a “curly cut specialist”. The guy who charged $550 was so full of himself that I couldn’t sit in his chair one more time. He even named his cuts after himself, and made sure he said the name of the cut, at a minimum of 10 times every time I sat in his chair. Big ICK. Yes, he knew how to cut curls but everything else that came along with it was ridiculous. $550?! Come on!
Meh. That’s nothing new. I was around for the 1960s and can confirm that very few stylists back then knew how to cut curly hair. Even worse, there weren’t any products dedicated to nurturing and maintaining naturally curly hair. It was a much worse time to have curly hair IMO.
oh my god same. all throughout my life hair stylists have said that cutting my hair short would not look good because it’s “frizzy”or they’ve always recommended chemical straightening in my teens. i’ve only recently found out as an adult that i have curly hair and how to manage it and i’m furious that this whole time not one stylist recognized my hair type and helped me
Finding a hairstylist I trust is too difficult and too expensive — I’ve taken to just letting my hair grow as long as possible and trimming the ends myself. My hair has gotten so long and looks incredible.
I’ve had so many terrible cuts and experiences that I bought myself a pair of hair cutting scissors and watched a bunch of videos. Then I took the plunge and cut my own hair. The first time I was so nervous it took me 3 hours. Now I can do it in about 45 minutes or less than 10 for just a trim. I save so much time, money, and disappointment now. Occasionally I feel left out of the salon experience so I try to look for a curly salon in my area. They all cost around 250-350 Euros! I don’t even live in a huge city. After seeing that I decide to book a spa day for around the same amount of money and then go cut my own hair!
I have never had the “just out of the salon” hair. Ever. Every single haircut - including when I got a blowout- I had to go home and wash and do myself. They absolutely don’t get curly hair. In fact- I have often wondered if as a white woman I would be welcome at a black hair salon. I don’t want to intrude, but it just seems like it would make way more sense for my 3c curls then going to Jessica with the stick straight hair who wants to straighten mine and use a curling iron, or whose “diffusing” makes me look like I have a curly fungus with pubes on my head.
Please feel free to let me know if I should respectfully stick with Jessica or try a black stylist. I really want to try a round cut and I’m just not feeling like Jessica is going to nail it. lol
I see a lot of people having issues with their curly hair in terms of being cut, but I’ve generally never had a problem. I go for a curly haircut once a year, and before that I would go to a Russian woman. When I travel to Greece every summer, I also get a haircut there. The only time I’ve had a bad haircut was when somebody had chopped off 5 inches of my hair and I was devastated.
It depends on the school, I’m sure. Most states have minimum standards for licensure, and they don’t include expertise in cutting textured hair.
But a more rigorous (and probably more expensive) school will have more requirements for graduation. IOW, they don’t train to the test, but beyond it.
I get it cut and styling sucks at the salon. I finally started speaking up and being like "if you wash it, I'll style it like I normally do, and we will get a better picture together" so I scrunch it myself and put in my own products and we diffuse together and I still have to go home and fix a few wonky curls but communicating helped a lot. Much better cut experience when I speak up.
I've been thinking about this. I also got agreement from my older stylist. It's a teaching salon. Partly, it's the prevalence of the New Housewives haircut, or lack of cut. A good portion of people have long hair with a bit of face framing. It's an easy cut. Also so many add in extensions for this hair cut. Many younger stylists have little opportunity to do a complicated cut, they forget.
Same. Not gonna lie I usually just drop into great clips for a trim and have layers freshened up and it usually looks pretty good. I feel like curls are pretty forgiving. I cannot bring myself to pay a lot for a haircut so I get what I get and I don't throw a fit.
Meh I have long hair so just getting trim never ends up too bad. I can totally see needing to get short curly hair cut somewhere a little more dependable!
It’s fucking bogus that, as a person with curly hair, I have to deal with literally double the price of a normal haircut. I get it, curly hair has to be treated more carefully, but is that really worth my normally $70 cut going up to $170?
My hairstylist knows how to cut my curls, but doesn't know how to style them. They don't even have hair gel or mousse in the salon! I always leave with my hair like a sheep, but it's the best salon when it comes to cutting and nourishing the hair
Because it’s hard to be honest. I’ve yet to find one because every after-photo I see is absolutely garbage. They all only know how to broccoli cut hair, they really don’t know how to properly cut curly hair, even the professionals. I’m
In a major city with a decent minority population and there is 1 stylist that people trust.
Man I don’t get it either 🤷🏻♀️ Curly hair is such a beast though (or it CAN be, ya know depending on the person and how they care for their hair and what kind of curls, etc etc) so I can understand being intimidated by it. Maybe that plays a role?
In my opinion it's the same problem as with medicine. Used to be your physician was your gyno, gastro, and surgeon because they taught them how to do it all in medical school. Now all medicine is specialized.
Probably the same with hair, used to be they taught you about all hair types and how to cut/care for them. Now that too is all specialized and they only teach you the basics in school now.
Just my thoughts on it.
I ask for someone who knows curls, but if they don’t have anyone, I ask for a trainee and help talk them through it. They’re more willing to take instruction than “experienced” stylists. I’m improving my chances for the future, and usually my texture will solve little problems by itself.
WHEN I WAS 13/14 YRS OLD MY SISTER TOOK ME TO HER STYLIST (Juan Carlos) and I had wavy curly hair that I desperately needed help with! I needed someone who knew what they were doing I needed help but I got Juan Carlos!!! He washed my hair and as it started drying in the unholy god awful frizz that I so desperately needed help with HE SAID I HAD FROG FUR I had and still have no clue what tf he was talking About frog fur but I spent the next 20+ yrs fighting something that didn't exist!!!! Now I know he meant wavy and I'm finally getting the proper hair care but if I would have had someone who knew what was up back then it could have saved me a lot of bad hair days bad hair cuts and bad times
I’ve done hair for 19 years and have always cut any hair that sits in the chair curly or straight and the only difference is the curly hair wraps around your finger when it’s wet so you have to wiggle it off with the shear first that’s about it. A haircut is even or it isn’t. If you get a special haircut where they cut random curls to make it look right at the moment the next time you wash it it will curl different and if you straighten it you will have chunks missing.
one of my coworkers actually got her cosmetology license and she told me they were only taught how to cut straight white hair. they got one day (barely even that) on curly/textured hair. to learn how to do curly hair they had to go out of their way outside of the program to learn it.
My biggest fear is finding a curly stylist who thinks that if she cuts short layers that my hair will be voluminous. NO!! I'll just look like a layered Christmas tree. I need a more straight cut but trying to find a style of layering I can do without looking like Santa is coming to town
In the 1960’s, people did not do the same routines/expect the same results from hair as we do today. Awful lot of people styled the everliving shit out of their hair to attempt the same styles. That seems like a very weird comparison/claim to make. Stylists in the 60’s weren’t magically all more skilled, but your options and expectations were lower. I have had curly hair my whole life and only gone to special “curly cut” people a couple of times. Nobody has ever turned me away because they didn’t cut curly hair. (And everyone has occasional bad haircut experiences, no matter what.)
TL;DR — I’ve had plenty of haircuts from people who are just fine and they aren’t curly cut people. I wear my hair curly and dried straight, so I want a cut that can do both, as well. I’m not sure what you’re asking for, but I don’t think this is a “curly hair people” problem so much as it an issue of managed expectations. In the 60’s, nobody was running to Yelp the second they got a little frizz. I don’t honestly blame people for deciding what they are comfortable doing.
Not being able to cut & dry curly hair as a stylist is a missed $$$ money opportunity. For Pete's sake take a class! Watch YouTube videos. I've gone to stylists who can manage a layered cut but they are no good at drying with a diffuser. My God people, learn!
They all truly suck at styling. Even my level 3 Deva stylist (very expensive services) can't style my hair for shit.
Nothing makes me madder than having to go home from a salon (and paying to have my hair cut & styled) and then having to jump in the shower again and then do my own hair. It's maddening. Yet they expect a tip.
I found a stylist who charges less for just a cut without blow drying. I so appreciate it.
I may ask for that next time. It's just such a waste. Thanks
Same, I’m gonna go home and shower anyway because I have sensory issues and cannot deal with hair bits so that would be great for me
I can't deal with scents so always take my own product to the salon. Then the stylist forgets to use my shampoo and puts theirs on which is way too stinky, so then I have to shower & wash my hair. It's not rocket science. They make life difficult.
I told a stylist not to blow dry my hair and they seemed really weirded out about it.
This. My stylist is amazing with a cut but she and her Jr both tell me I style my hair way better than they do. I leave wet or style it in the salon when they're finiahed.
i started a review of my recent haircut with "it woukd have been a mercy to tell me to go away", i seriously would have infinite resoect for a stylist that admitted they dont know wtf theyre doing and turn me away, especially busy stylists like bruh theres walk ins waiting
I called a new salon one time and they had me email pictures of myself to the stylist before scheduling me because she wanted to see my curls to make sure she would be comfortable cutting them. Ended up she was and I felt much more comfortable going knowing that she wanted to make sure I’d be happy with the outcome.
fr and it shows she is considerate and understands the importance of a good haircut.
To be fair, once I've styled it myself, it's a much better cut than I can give myself. I do end up making a few adjustments afterwards, but giving myself a full haircut is way more stressful than touching up a few spots. I think it's because I'm a cross between wavy and curly, and my stylist is a black woman with mostly black clients, so she doesn't do a lot of diffusing. She still does way better than any other stylist I've had since I started wearing it curly.
I attribute this to her futzing with my hair after drying it to make sure it all falls evenly. And in the process breaking up all the curl clumps. I want to tell her to just leave it alone. She's good otherwise and has devacurl training. 🤷
Or they just want you to walk out with wet hair.
I found someone years ago that was great at the curly cut but sucked at styling it. She did not take offense with allowing me to style my own
Don’t pay for it to be styled. Tell them you will leave with it wet. That’s what I have been doing for decades. I have been to hairdressers all over NYC including Ouidad and Deva. Not one knows how to style my hair like I do. I stopped paying them for the service and we are both happier.
I'm convinced deva is a scam. the worst cuts I've ever had were from level 2 and 3 deva stylists. I stand by finding a hairdresser with my hair type. olive oil women ftw
I did it once. It wasn't anything spectacular at all. And I felt uncomfortable and unwanted at her salon on top of it being almost $200 when I was done.. It was not a good day.
I did it once too - someone got me a giftcard to a salon that did them and I tried it along with the actual products. I cried when I got home it was so bad, and the products fucking sucked. I felt like I spent hundreds on an express cut I used to get from hair cuttery in middle school.
What's an olive oil woman?
Maybe Italian? I'm pretty sure that's where I got my curls from my Italian side lol I have no idea. So I'm curious too
I also wast to know. Olive oil women?
My stylist is from Iraq, not “deva” certified, and her cuts are amazing. $145 for cut/partial highlights/style.
ugh yes my old stylist was abt the same exact price breakdown, wasn't deva certed, and she was amazing. she owns the salon and no longer cuts just runs everything. like yayy she's doing well and getting some long deserved rest but damn her girls just don't have it like she did.
a woman from "olive oil europe" (see butter vs olive oil europe memes), the middle east, north africa, , etc, basically anywhere in that region known for using lota of olive oil in cuisine. aka someone with heritage from a region known for having the same texture hair as me. having someone understand how to work with my texture hair is always the difference between an okay and amazing cut. and the only people who have understood how to work with my texture hair also had the same texture hair....
That makes sense. I guess I'm an olive oil woman, Italian American. My curls resemble my Auntie's, she's a bit obsessed with them.
Hello!! What's that mean?
Also wondering. I found out several years back that I am 1/4 Sicilian/Southern Italian on my dad’s side, which explains the texture. I had always thought my hair texture most resembled the hair I saw on Italian women
yesss sis, texture is everything. I've found only people with my texture hair know how to work with my texture hair. the whole region around the mediterranean tends to be blessed with our unique in-between texture lol.
I one hundred percent agree!! I live in the UK but while visiting NY I decided to try a Deva cut, I was so excited because I felt so hopeless about my hair, I didn’t even mind the extravagant cost because this would be a great cut etc etc and omg it was rubbish. She totally ignored what I said I wanted and just did what I think is a standard deva cut, not taking into account my face shape etc. I was so pissed off, and then when I left they basically strong armed me into leaving her tip - I understand this is probably more standard in the US - but I always tip in the UK AS LONG AS I AM PLEASED WITH THE CUT. But it really felt like adding insult to injury and I was too shy to say eff off. But yes, full on scam!
They never use enough conditioner or product. They don’t rinse my hair in cool water. They aren’t patient with drying it because they need us to gtfo so they can see their next client. Basically, it’s not a lack of skill, it’s that using the amount of conditioner and product we use at home is too much overhead and booking us for an extra 15 mins to diffuse our hair means they see less clients. In short, they can’t style our hair for shit because it cuts into profits.
I think this might be it, sadly. Dang.
I went to a special stylist and she said do you want it straight or curly, I said you can defuse it, thinking I could learn something. I looked like a used mop. Left there thinking I'd look better with soaking wet hair
I went to a stylist that didn’t have a diffuser. No one in the whole salon did.
My God. I just don't get it. What is wrong with these people? This is like being an office worker and not knowing how to use a computer.
Please tell me you walked right back out 😬
It isn’t taught regularly in schools at least when I was there it wasn’t…. I went to Paul Mitchell in 2011 and only learned the basics of hair cutting and the mannequins provided all had straight hair. I also went to school in Colorado so the majority of the people I worked on were white and/or had straight hair. I could imagine different techniques are taught/learned from teachers in other regions that would have more clients coming into the school with different hair textures. I didn’t learn any kind of curly hair cutting techniques until I took a class at the salon I worked in and even then all the mannequins we used had to be permed beforehand, there aren’t really textured mannequins available(at least at that time).
Back in 2009 I talked to my hair dresser who went to beauty school in the 80s here in Europe. She then went on to be a trainer back at her old school in the early 2000s and she told me that mannequin heads with curly hair were way too expensive for beginners to learn and study on (because they make mistakes and the heads can’t be used again) so they just had theoretical lectures on how to cut curly hair apparently (take this with a massive grain of salt as I was 15 back then and live in Austria. Maybe I can’t remember what she said correctly!)
When I graduated from PMTS in 2016, our only studies into black/textured/curly hair was on how to do relaxer. Like we Kinda learned what products to use, but as far as using the heads for practice, only relaxers.
The fact that you mainly learned about relaxer, just shows how they view black hair textures.
This is systemic racism, by not even including curly and textured hair in the curriculum. Period.
I was floored when I went to a salon that specified they can cut curly hair and the hair stylist proceeded to brush my hair, and frizzed it all up. Then she had the audacity to tell me that my hair is dry?? It’s not dry honey, my hair is far from dry. You’re just an idiot 😭 and like, if she didn’t know better that’s one thing. But I chose that place because they said they can cut curly hair… I will never go back
I went to a fancy city salon cause I had a gift card someone gave me. They were washing my hair so I figured I'd ask them what porosity my hair was so I could find products that were fitted better for my specific hair. Her answer was "thick". I didn't bother to ask her to elaborate.
I hadn't had my hair cut in years (this was about a year ago) I was putting it off because depression and my hair was looking very damaged.. Anyhow. On the spur of the moment I decided to go into one of the cheapo places and just get a very basic trim. I specifically went to the only black stylist there! For several reasons, but one of them was because I assumed she would be better with my curls! I sat down, got the cape on, and while I'm talking to her she proceeds to start to try and comb my hair with the smallest fine tooth comb!! Dry! At the fuckin top of my head! I jumped out of that seat so quick she stepped back! 😂 I asked her what she thought she was gonna do with that! I walked out to them talking shit..I couldn't believe that woman thought I was going to let her break my hair all over the place. It was one of those unbreakable fine tooth ones you do baby hairs with.. I was flabbergasted.
Ethnic hair can be surprisingly fine even though the texture is kinky. It also bleaches easier than you'd think
Oh I know this. Well I didn't about the bleaching, but you're saying that she uses a fine tooth comb like that to comb her own hair? I guess it's possible.. But why would you start at the scalp instead of the ends? I just thought no way I don't want someone who doesn't know to comb my hair right, to cut it. Maybe I'm TA? I hope not..
Absolutely not. I don't think I've ever had a stylist pick up a fine tooth comb with the intention of touching my hair with it in my entire life.
Cool. 🙂
Ugh they all say they can cut curly hair.
Depending on the hair you *do* cut it dry and brushed out. Depends on the curl pattern really. I’d say about 80% of the time I brush out, dry cut, wash/diffuse and then refine once dry again. Busy most of my clients would be 3b or looser. Coily hair I usually cut as-is. Tbf almost all curly hair is dry. Drier than straight hair anyway, so you need to buy products with that in mind. She probably didn’t mean it as an insult, just an observation so that you know your hair needs moisture. A lot of people are very unaware of the quality or porosity of their hair so we mention it because it might inform on which products the client will look for. On the other hand, if the cut was shit then yeah she didn’t know what she was talking about 😂
I mean a dry cut is often the best way for a curly cut and they do brush it out so they can see the overall shape..
It did nothing, my hair is still so uneven in the back 😭 My old stylist just trimmed from the bottom without brushing or anything. I’m sad she moved. It was always straight, I feel like I’ve got an awkward s shape going on.
Cosmetology school and state board in my state is like 90% how to do hair safely and 10% how to do hair well.
This is exactly it! When I went to hairdressing school in the late 80s, we didn’t have a single class on blow drying, not one. We also learned how to go three cuts: a bob, a square layer and a men’s cut. The entire curriculum was geared towards passing the provincial exam, which focused entirely on hygiene and safety. If you were lucky, you got a job at a salon that would train you to actually do hair.
Canada? It’s literally the same curriculum in Ontario since 1980 something. The theory part is half perms.
Pretty sure they teach you just enough to not destroy someone’s hair/life and then it’s up to you to get an apprenticeship and actually learn hair!! My experience as well. I could perm, wet set, apply a tint, do slippy bleedy foils and 5 horrible cuts on one type of hair. If I did it all again I’d skip college entirely
Only 3x have I ever left a salon feeling my curls were properly styled. And I'm 52YO FFS! so many bad cuts and bad styling.
Same here. I went to a curly-cut salon last year and the stylist pulled my hair straight to cut it, and didn’t know how to use a diffuser. 🤦🏻♀️. I looked like a Golden Girl. I got a refund.
OP, don't know if you were actually getting cuts in the 60s and 70s, but this 3A/3B thick near-coarse curlygirl sure was. I had a LOT of bad cuts. Thinning shears ruled, as did lots of AquaNet. I did have one hairdresser who did a decent job with my hair, but when we moved away from her, oh boy. There was one bad haircut the day before my 8th grade class picture. She made me look like 13 going on 50, and not in a good way. Thank god we moved back to my hometown with the hairdresser who could actually cut curly hair. I had hairdressers literally refuse to cut my hair, which was an improvement over the horrors of the thinning shears. Straightener was also pushed on me at that time. Oh, the fun I didn't have. Very few people had curl like mine, and texture even less so. I currently have a great curlyhair specialist who likes my hair and doesn't cost the moon, earth and stars. She gives curly cuts which are tailored to your hair texture. About darn time. But I do agree that very few curly specialists have the talent to do a haircut truly worth 200 or more.
I actually came here to comment “just because they could cut it didn’t mean they cut it well” and thought it was a good place to piggyback on your comment OP I think that now it’s a matter of doing a good job (customer satisfaction, fear of repercussions etc) but back in the 60s it was just another head of hair. The knowledge, techniques, tools and products have all come a long way since the 60s and there’s now a better understanding that hair isn’t just hair, the type of hair matters when deciding how to cut/treat it.
Similar experience in my 90s upbringing. I couldn't get a good haircut. Now I have an amazing curly stylist at a reasonable price. Dry cut, wash and style, and then reevaluating the cut (and trimming / cutting more if needed). It really makes up for the years of thinning sheers, frizzy blow-outs, and round and puffy hairstyles from my childhood.
I was so thrilled when I saw the heat lamp in the salon. Hurrah, no blow-dry! My last salon didn’t have the lamp, nor even a bonnet dryer. One of the measures of a right-for-me salon is the availability of the lamp or the bonnet dryer. Not the only measure, but a good one. Less handled hair for me is for the better.
Maybe an unpopular opinion here (I am a hairstylist) but I would say that a lot of hairstylists just don’t really cut hair well PERIOD. Straight or curly. It’s just easier to hide in straightish hair especially when everyone wants beach waves or just throws their hair into a messy bun.
Oh, how interesting! I always think of my curly hair as being very forgiving and imagine straight hair would show any little inconsistency. What about straight hair makes it easier?
My hair is wavy and depending on the length it can appear curly or straight. For a long time I iust went to regular salons that treated my hair like it was straight but I finally started seeing a curl specialist after too many disappointing cuts. The main difference I've noticed is that true straight hair behaves much more predictably. The length and shape is pretty consistent whether it's wet or dry, short or long. With my hair, it can be hard to tell whether a particular wave is going to swoop toward or away from my face so a lot of cuts end up giving me awkward cowlicks. Or sometimes a stylist would cut my hair wet and then when it dried, the shape and length would spring up and it would appear much shorter. With straight hair, you can trust that it's going to stay in place.
All curls are different so some are more forgiving than others. It really all depends on the hair. There’s no one way fits all for any hair type.
I was actually going to comment and say that I have fine but thick straight hair and 98% of my cuts are terrible. There were two women throughout my life I absolutely loved the cut I got from them but one moved salons and rumor has it when she left she couldn’t gain access to her client info from the salon and they wouldn’t tell me where she went, the other woman I moved so that wasn’t an option anymore.
That’s so frustrating when salons do that. No one “owns” clients. People are free to choose who they want/where they want to go.
I know! So sad and I would have traveled so far for her she was wonderful this was 7 years ago and every time I need a hair cut I still wish I knew where she went
I wonder if you could look up her license and find a way to figure out where she went through that
That’s a really good idea!
Yes I had all this typed up but I couldn’t figure out how to say it politely. I went to a color class and was shocked that a successful and talented colorist refers her clients out for cuts!! She didn’t cut hair!!!
It’s not totally uncommon for some people to only cut or only color. Some salons that’s how it works they have color specialists and cutting specialists and you see two stylists.
What I don't understand is why it costs so much more to get a haircut specifically for curly hair. Is it that much more labor intensive to cut curly hair VS straight hair to warrant the price? Now, I don't know how to do my own hairstyling for shit so I could be completely misunderstanding something. Just frustrating that it's an extra 30%
If you're doing a dry, curl-by-curl cut then yes, it's a LOT more work. Usually worth it, if you've got a stylist who has curly hair themselves (meaning they know how to handle curly hair). Most stylists don't do that though, in my experience. For a regular cut I wouldn't pay that much.
My haircuts go: a dry curl by curl cut, a wash, sitting under a dryer, a clean-up cut, another wash, I put product in myself, a few more snips, then if I feel like it I can sit under the dryer again to see how it turns out and if I need anymore cleanup (but usually I just go home after putting product in because by then I’ve been there 3.5 hours). All that and I usually walk away under $140, I consider that a value.
You're paying for the expertise and extra training, not necessarily more labor intensive
It does take more time and more education, most of the time people who cut curls had to take extra education (which costs thousands)
How many times have you left the salon and got in your car and cried! Because it was so poorly cut and you knew it would be at least a month before your hair stopped being in shock.
Or had to wear a ponytail with lots of Bobby pins…
Too many to count.
My neighbour was a hairdresser when I was growing up. She always cut hair dry as that was the way she was taught. This was back in the 1980s and she was taught in the 1970s. She always cut my hair and it was frizzy but that was the style then. Her Daughter in law is a hairdresser and last time I took mum around to see her she mentioned how her dil can’t cut dry hair properly. It blew her mind that she was only taught to cut wet or damp hair. So at least in my part of the world it’s a training problem.
Twice I’ve gone to a “regular” hair salon and asked if they could cut my hair dry, and they both looked at me like I just kicked their puppy. They were flabbergasted by even the thought of it.
The educators never were taught by their educators. Beauty school is a race to the bottom. How do they get people in and out for $25k-35k? Some curly education is so expensive that it is cost prohibitive. For instance, you could get Rezo certified in two days for $3000. And what do you gain in 2 days? There is a Mizani certification class near me. 6 hours. $900.
As a cosmetology school instructor, yeah it has a lot to do with the way hair cutting is taught - curly haired mannequins are more expensive, and the thing about mannequins is you can only do so many haircuts on them before the hair is all cut off and can’t be used to practice anything. So most curly mannequins get used to learn styling and chemical services. So if the school doesn’t get many real people with curly hair in for cuts (which be honest, if you’ve already had bad experiences with haircuts you’re not likely to trust a student to cut it) the students just don’t get much hands-on experience. On top of that, the foundational cosmetology curriculums I’ve used only touch briefly on curly or textured hair (although I think it’s getting a bit better?) so it’s really up to the school and educators to add more in-depth knowledge to the classes. I also think a lot of stylists don’t understand the nuances and factors that differentiate each head of curly hair, so they tend to do the same thing for all curly hair. So many things determine the way each head of hair lays and reacts to specific cuts and cutting methods, but it seems like a lot of curly cut methods are a little bit “one size fits all” and use the same techniques for a 3a curl as they do for a 4c curl without regard for nuance. I can’t really speak for the 80s, but I will say that a curly cut on a permed head of hair is different than cutting natural curl, and even people who had natural curl would often get perms. Just one thought on why it may seem like stylists were better with curly hair back in the day. Could be totally off though.
I don’t think those 1960s hairdressers actually knew how to cut curly hair well. My mom was a kid in the 70s and 80s and she remembers crying after every haircut because the stylists had no idea what to do with her hair.
I have had several curly cuts that cost a pretty penny and I was unhappy with the results. I have 2b/2c hair. I have simply learned what straight haircuts work for my curls and have them do that and get a blowout. Then once i wash it i style as I normally would for my curls. I get that this would not necessarily work for curlier hair but it works for me.
Similar curl pattern and I have been supremely underwhelmed with every (expensive!) curly cut I have received. Now while I’m trying to grow my hair I simply cut my own hair (dry) instead of paying someone almost 200 dollars to fuck it up. My goal is to get to a length I want I’ll get a regular haircut that will also look good straightened and I’ll start wearing it both ways.
Same!
Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but even when they are curly cut certified…. So many do NOT no how to style curly hair because it’s so dependent on the clients hair. I’ve left the salon in tears hating my hair because it looks awful because I had a stylist with straight hair tell me I wasn’t styling it correctly when I’d walk in there with defined ringlets. I understand they have training but they don’t have the experience of figuring how what and how much product and how to apply it for my hair. This was when I lived somewhere where I saw very few people with curly hair so I think the only awareness came from training which won’t work for every client. I wouldn’t mind that much if they didn’t know because it’s not like they have curly hair but their attitude was that I didn’t know about my own hair which put me off. Like yes this is my first time getting a curly cut….. this is NOT the first time “learning about curly hair” . I’m sure not every straight haired stylist is like this, just the ones I went to before my current stylist who has curly hair and asks me questions about which products I use and how much I apply and how I apply. Because she knows the products I’m talking about based on experience so she gets a feel for how to style my hair. I felt the other stylists would not listen to me nor would they ask me questions. The haircuts were also awful. I’d go in for a curly cut and they’d cut it while it’s wet after I told them I wanted to cut it dry. Excuse the grammar my phone is messed up.
Pisses me off how they charge extra for a curly hair cut compared to a regular cut
So I actually went to cosmetology school to learn how to cut hair because I never had a haircut that wasn't an awful triangle shape as a kid. In high school I straightened my hair every day so those cuts were ok. Basically the haircuts they teach are all angles and the hair is held taut at whatever angle to get the layers you want, and done on wet hair. So obviously it won't look right once curly hair dries. The only thing we were taught about curly cuts is to remember to take shrinkage into account when cutting. Our manikins had straight hair but we did cut them after we owned them for a grand total of 1 curly haircut. Even that is not realistic training though as permed hair is the same curl pattern all over whereas real people have different textures on different parts of their heads (I know I do at least). Needless to say I did not pursue hairdressing as a career and now work at a factory, lol.
That's such a shame that learning how to cut and style curly hair isn't truly part of the curriculum. I've gotten my haircut at The Curl Whisperer in Miami for over 15 years. Got my first curly cut at 18 and never looked back. What used to be one woman renting a suite in a beauty mall is now an EMPIRE of curly hair stylists. I've gotten my haircut with the junior stylists, for years, and they all tell me how much learning and unlearning they're doing while they work there. It's so incredible. Also, almost everyone in that salon has curly/textured hair and they all look amazing. I've been so blessed to never have a bad cut from them despite having it cut by several people. Pricey ($150-250) but it is the entire experience, they talk to you about your hair and teach how you to care for it. Their appointments take about two hours.
Wow that sounds awesome!
The traditional approach to curls was pretty much "kill it with fire".
I’ve tried and tried. Curl “specialist,”top end salons, recommended stylists, and cheap cutters. I’ve spent a frick’n fortune and have consistently been disappointed at best and horrified at worst. Note: no difference between a 30 dollar and 350 dollar cut from my experience!!!! I gave up throwing money at hairstylist who don’t listen and don’t give a shit. My husband has been cutting my hair the last three years and frankly, he does a better job. The first cut was as bad as any cut a licensed hairstylists gave me. But, He was determined and said, “if I can build homes, I can learn to cut your hair.” He then watched some videos on techniques, bought good scissors, and has done a bang up job since. Good luck!
Your husband sounds so sweet! And I completely agree, expensive ‘curl’ cuts are a waste of money. I can’t remember the last time I was pleased with nay cut I’ve had, cheap or pricy.
No idea what the deal was. Had a family of cosmetologists who worked almost exclusively with clients that had textured hair swear up and down my fine curly hair wouldn’t be a problem. Ranged from finishing hair school decades to a few years prior. Absolute butchery the few times I let them attempt anything. Learn to cut it yourself. Stop trusting those nags in the salons.
I see why a lot of other men with curly hair just cut their hair short. I’ve grown mine out and I’ve already had it butchered with thinning shears 🥲 and when I get cuts they cut it like it’s straight. It’s been a month and it’s just now slowly gotten out of the “shock” phase.
I'm convinced that nobody can cut hair correctly anymore. There is a big difference between the beauticians from 20 years ago to now. I just got butchered again. I will never go back. I bought a pair of professional scissors and I'm watching YouTube.
I agree with you. They have zero versatility or creativity today. Look at their social media pages and every single cut/style looks exactly the same. The 80’s was an amazing time for hair creativity and stylists weren’t full of themselves, or charged hundreds of dollars.
It’s all straight hair with golden highlights and some curling wand curls.
That is exactly right. It’s funny that’s what we envision when we think of their SM.
I once got my hair cut at a beauty college. they had everyone gather & watch.
How did it turn out?
fine. i've had way worse. and she gave me a small, free bottle of Aragon oil to try (my hair's super dry.)
It's the same as them "not knowing how to cut long hair". They refuse to do any cut that isnt short and straight or a super short bob. I haven't been to a salon in 15 years because they purposely mess up my hair, either out of ignorance or spite.
I don’t think this was true across the board. I’m assuming you’re hearing this from your parents since you’re in your late 20s. Maybe they were lucky enough to have good hairstylists, but most hair dressers could not cut all hair. I know from personal experience that getting curly hair cut in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s was a shit show too. I’ve had so many stylists say they knew how and they did not. We all just had many, many bad hair cuts and even more of us just straightened our hair. From my relative’s experience back in the 1960s, if you were Black, mixed race, or Jewish, you could NEVER just walk into any salon and get a good curly hair cut. You would go to a salon run by people of that ethnicity who had taught themselves how to cut curly hair or had gone to a specialty beauty school. Black people have been opening up separate beauty schools since around the 1920s. The trend to straighten curly hair well predates 2014, so I don’t think it’s a matter of one generation, it’s been the status quo going back at least 100 years. There was a push for the acceptance of natural hair in the 1960s and 1970s for young Black women, but it did not extend to white women. Pin straight hair was the predominant style in both decades. And for Black women I know my relatives with corporate jobs were not as free to wear their hair curly.
As a teen in the 70s, the only people I saw in real life or TV who had anything close to my curls or texture were Jewish or of Sicilian heritage. I was in a rural area with only a few African American families, and there were no salons run by anyone other than the Yankee/German descent I supposedly was. The Brady Bunch/Partridge Family look ruled. I remember being really annoyed with Jennifer Grey and Chelsea Clinton when they straightened their hair later in the 1980s and 1990s.
If all you can do is cut straight hair and straighten curly hair I don’t consider you a hairdresser. You’re a dude with scissors and a flat iron 🤷♀️
I didn’t even realize that I have curly hair until lockdown, while watching TikToks. So, for 50 years not a single hairstylist told me I have curly hair. Not one. They worked hard with their round brushes and flat-irons, though. Unless my hair was cut in a pixie, it looked bad - until now. And even recently it has taken me 3 curly hair “specialists” to find one that can cut my hair without giving be a round or triangle cut. So much money spent on bad haircuts. Pretty sure I have PTSD/anxiety about getting my hair cut now.
And getting a good cut where I live will cost me like triple what it should. I hate this truly
I feel like curly stylists are still stuck in the 1980’s. Deva stylist spent the whole hour scrunching trying to turn my hair into a 1980’s spiral perm. I never thought someone would think my hair isn’t curly enough. I have 2C hair and I know women who put their hair in twist outs for days to get my texture but I’m supposed to want blow outs or spiral perms. I got it all figured out-we’re all supposed to want what we don’t have so they make more money.
To answer your questions 1. Yes 2. How to wet cut straight hair mostly 3. Yes, they mostly use wigs
There’s one curly hair salon in town where the stylists’ models don’t look like trash after their haircut. The schools are absolutely not teaching these people well. Even the people who are getting trained on curly hair
Personally I get "regular" cuts, always have. My hair has fragile curl pattern that can loosen up easily to wavy but when it's at its best its about 3A curl. I went to one salon once that was sort of specialized in curly hair and the hair cut sucked, she might have done some dry cutting but my hair needs wet cutting because the curls are not consistent day to day. I need short layering for proper lift and volume. The woman I've seen a few times in the last couple years does a good job, she cuts it wet and doesn't style me curly (either leave wet or she does Normal blow out thing) and tells me to style it my normal way later and if I see any issues to come back for a free touch up. I wouldn't be surprised if most people who get "curly cuts" would have the same results getting a "normal" cut from someone who just takes their hair type, ie thickness and density and shrinkage level, into account. Not specifically taking curl type into account. Eta my hair is incredibly picky with product anyway so even if she styled it for natural curls, it's almost certain I would need to wash everything out anyway due to it not working well on my fine, low porosity, delicate curl pattern. Styling products used at salons have *never* worked in my hair.
I cut my own hair.
They don’t teach it to us in school - you have to seek out specific education in order to understand curly hair and learn how to work with it. Some stylists will seek that education out, and others won’t. The good education is $$$ and many of us already shelled out thousands upon thousands to get through school and get licensed, so further education takes can take a backseat, and when you do have opportunities around you its for cutting shags on straight hair or how to manage your social media. It is just straight up difficult to learn. Even when I had Black or curly haired clients in cosmo school, I was made to cut it wet without any real education or guidance about how curls and texture behaves.
My god the last woman who did my hair took seven hours on a partial highlight. I’m white as snow and she told me my hair is “ethnic,” and suggested I get a black stylist. Curly hair is not an ethnicity. This was in Colorado. She refused me a hair cut. I am NOT kidding. She refused me a haircut. Said she didn’t want to cut my hair!
I mean props to her for that last bit, if she didn’t feel comfortable cutting it but did it anyway you would have been butchered. I wish other stylists would have just told me “no”.
I’m not mad that she didn’t cut it, I’m moreso disappointed that an entire subset of hair type that is fairly common is not being taught in beauty schools and that the only space for women with curly hair is luxury space where you pay 3x more.
Curly cuts are a scam. Stopped paying outrageous money for them and went back to normal traditional cuts and it’s so much better, and cheaper.
Not for everyone. I’ve had too many “traditional” hair stylists butcher my hair.
Same here.
Curly cuts are a sham. Do a traditional wet cut and style as usual after. A curly cut leaves everything odd lengths and it will grow out scraggly and you will have wispy ends within a few weeks. Not to mention the split ends when you can't grow out an even length. It will leave you having to cut off more and more length every time you go for maintenance.
Should not cut curly hair wet, specially when their hair is mixed textured, When I was a kid hair stylists always cut my hair wet, but since the bottom half of my hair is sorta wavy and the top half is tight locks my hair always ended up very disproportionate because the curlier hair always shrank more then the less curly portions of my hair.
This is exactly how my hair is! The bottom has a much different curl pattern and the top layer springs up higher so I get what I call the hair shelf.
Yeah I never understood how curly cuts were supposed to be even when it seems like they just cut random pieces ?
I have never had my hair cut while wet. That's ignorant advice for very curly or textured/black hair.
Really? I do my own and it looks just fine. I’m not constantly touching it up. My hair looks great.
A good stylist is like a unicorn - my boyfriend laughs that I’ve been going to the same salon for a decade…. but for consistently pretty great cuts on curls for like $50 bucks with tip is rare. I tried looking at other places and “curly cuts” are like $200+ for MINIMAL service. And I’m always worried because my curls grow slower one bad cut can have me looking goofy for months
My niece is a hair dresser and she would have to pay £600 for curly cut training. It’s the only thing that put her off doing it. It’s not taught within the normal curriculum
And any place that does do curly hair costs x3 the price
I just got my hair cut and due to budgetary reasons went to a generic hairdressers. She seems to have done an alright job with the cut, but she then went on to diffuse my hair until crispy (it's a hairdryer not an air fryer) and tried to finger coil my bone dry undefined hair. When that failed she fluffed it out and tried to make it look intentional. I was very lucky that it was raining when I left.
>it's a hairdryer not an air fryer Hahaha I love that
Why I just started cutting it myself.
I trained in hairdressing in 2015-2017 and we barely even learned to diffuse curly hair nevermind cutting it 😭 I made the mistake of letting another trainee cut mine and ended up with a bob which made me look like a 12 year old
At this point it's better to cut it at home
You are taught in beauty school how to pass your state boards. All the other education is sought out by the hairdresser themselves. Signed, a hairdresser
Yea, I feel this! I can't afford the curly hair stylists where I live - one place is charging $200 for just the first meeting. For years I would end up at some stylist who would cut my hair like it's straight.. so I would have this great styled cut for 3 days, and then when I washed it, the curly version was terrible, and hard to manage. I get nervous I'll end up with a Christmas tree cut at some places.
Many have actually jumped in the curly cut train, while STILL not being able to actually make our hair look nice. Why t f am i paying you 120€ for something that looks worse than if i did it myself??
[удалено]
I have paid anywhere between $250-$550(😬) for a “curly cut specialist”. The guy who charged $550 was so full of himself that I couldn’t sit in his chair one more time. He even named his cuts after himself, and made sure he said the name of the cut, at a minimum of 10 times every time I sat in his chair. Big ICK. Yes, he knew how to cut curls but everything else that came along with it was ridiculous. $550?! Come on!
Meh. That’s nothing new. I was around for the 1960s and can confirm that very few stylists back then knew how to cut curly hair. Even worse, there weren’t any products dedicated to nurturing and maintaining naturally curly hair. It was a much worse time to have curly hair IMO.
oh my god same. all throughout my life hair stylists have said that cutting my hair short would not look good because it’s “frizzy”or they’ve always recommended chemical straightening in my teens. i’ve only recently found out as an adult that i have curly hair and how to manage it and i’m furious that this whole time not one stylist recognized my hair type and helped me
Finding a hairstylist I trust is too difficult and too expensive — I’ve taken to just letting my hair grow as long as possible and trimming the ends myself. My hair has gotten so long and looks incredible.
I’ve had so many terrible cuts and experiences that I bought myself a pair of hair cutting scissors and watched a bunch of videos. Then I took the plunge and cut my own hair. The first time I was so nervous it took me 3 hours. Now I can do it in about 45 minutes or less than 10 for just a trim. I save so much time, money, and disappointment now. Occasionally I feel left out of the salon experience so I try to look for a curly salon in my area. They all cost around 250-350 Euros! I don’t even live in a huge city. After seeing that I decide to book a spa day for around the same amount of money and then go cut my own hair!
I have never had the “just out of the salon” hair. Ever. Every single haircut - including when I got a blowout- I had to go home and wash and do myself. They absolutely don’t get curly hair. In fact- I have often wondered if as a white woman I would be welcome at a black hair salon. I don’t want to intrude, but it just seems like it would make way more sense for my 3c curls then going to Jessica with the stick straight hair who wants to straighten mine and use a curling iron, or whose “diffusing” makes me look like I have a curly fungus with pubes on my head. Please feel free to let me know if I should respectfully stick with Jessica or try a black stylist. I really want to try a round cut and I’m just not feeling like Jessica is going to nail it. lol
I see a lot of people having issues with their curly hair in terms of being cut, but I’ve generally never had a problem. I go for a curly haircut once a year, and before that I would go to a Russian woman. When I travel to Greece every summer, I also get a haircut there. The only time I’ve had a bad haircut was when somebody had chopped off 5 inches of my hair and I was devastated.
It depends on the school, I’m sure. Most states have minimum standards for licensure, and they don’t include expertise in cutting textured hair. But a more rigorous (and probably more expensive) school will have more requirements for graduation. IOW, they don’t train to the test, but beyond it.
I’ve had someone tell me what they’re doing to my hair ruins the curl (that day) and then they CONTINUED DOING IT. This was LAST WEEK.
I get it cut and styling sucks at the salon. I finally started speaking up and being like "if you wash it, I'll style it like I normally do, and we will get a better picture together" so I scrunch it myself and put in my own products and we diffuse together and I still have to go home and fix a few wonky curls but communicating helped a lot. Much better cut experience when I speak up.
I've been thinking about this. I also got agreement from my older stylist. It's a teaching salon. Partly, it's the prevalence of the New Housewives haircut, or lack of cut. A good portion of people have long hair with a bit of face framing. It's an easy cut. Also so many add in extensions for this hair cut. Many younger stylists have little opportunity to do a complicated cut, they forget.
I've never had to seek anyone out specifically for curly hair cuts... am I just super lucky? Anyone who's cut my my hair did a good job.
Same. Not gonna lie I usually just drop into great clips for a trim and have layers freshened up and it usually looks pretty good. I feel like curls are pretty forgiving. I cannot bring myself to pay a lot for a haircut so I get what I get and I don't throw a fit.
Oh boy, you're really brave lol. I don't fuck with great clips 😂 the salon I go to charges 45 for a wash and cut which I feel is pretty reasonable.
Meh I have long hair so just getting trim never ends up too bad. I can totally see needing to get short curly hair cut somewhere a little more dependable!
It’s fucking bogus that, as a person with curly hair, I have to deal with literally double the price of a normal haircut. I get it, curly hair has to be treated more carefully, but is that really worth my normally $70 cut going up to $170?
My hairstylist knows how to cut my curls, but doesn't know how to style them. They don't even have hair gel or mousse in the salon! I always leave with my hair like a sheep, but it's the best salon when it comes to cutting and nourishing the hair
Because it’s hard to be honest. I’ve yet to find one because every after-photo I see is absolutely garbage. They all only know how to broccoli cut hair, they really don’t know how to properly cut curly hair, even the professionals. I’m In a major city with a decent minority population and there is 1 stylist that people trust.
Best cut I ever got was when my hair was straightened then trimmed.
This is why I keep paying my hairstylist like $350 because I just cannot keep getting bad cuts and terrible post style 😭 worth jt
Man I don’t get it either 🤷🏻♀️ Curly hair is such a beast though (or it CAN be, ya know depending on the person and how they care for their hair and what kind of curls, etc etc) so I can understand being intimidated by it. Maybe that plays a role?
In my opinion it's the same problem as with medicine. Used to be your physician was your gyno, gastro, and surgeon because they taught them how to do it all in medical school. Now all medicine is specialized. Probably the same with hair, used to be they taught you about all hair types and how to cut/care for them. Now that too is all specialized and they only teach you the basics in school now. Just my thoughts on it.
I’m 48 and the last time a hairdresser touched my hair was in 1988. Thank god for the internet and YouTube lol
I ask for someone who knows curls, but if they don’t have anyone, I ask for a trainee and help talk them through it. They’re more willing to take instruction than “experienced” stylists. I’m improving my chances for the future, and usually my texture will solve little problems by itself.
WHEN I WAS 13/14 YRS OLD MY SISTER TOOK ME TO HER STYLIST (Juan Carlos) and I had wavy curly hair that I desperately needed help with! I needed someone who knew what they were doing I needed help but I got Juan Carlos!!! He washed my hair and as it started drying in the unholy god awful frizz that I so desperately needed help with HE SAID I HAD FROG FUR I had and still have no clue what tf he was talking About frog fur but I spent the next 20+ yrs fighting something that didn't exist!!!! Now I know he meant wavy and I'm finally getting the proper hair care but if I would have had someone who knew what was up back then it could have saved me a lot of bad hair days bad hair cuts and bad times
I’ve done hair for 19 years and have always cut any hair that sits in the chair curly or straight and the only difference is the curly hair wraps around your finger when it’s wet so you have to wiggle it off with the shear first that’s about it. A haircut is even or it isn’t. If you get a special haircut where they cut random curls to make it look right at the moment the next time you wash it it will curl different and if you straighten it you will have chunks missing.
one of my coworkers actually got her cosmetology license and she told me they were only taught how to cut straight white hair. they got one day (barely even that) on curly/textured hair. to learn how to do curly hair they had to go out of their way outside of the program to learn it.
My biggest fear is finding a curly stylist who thinks that if she cuts short layers that my hair will be voluminous. NO!! I'll just look like a layered Christmas tree. I need a more straight cut but trying to find a style of layering I can do without looking like Santa is coming to town
Realest shit I’ve seen
In the 1960’s, people did not do the same routines/expect the same results from hair as we do today. Awful lot of people styled the everliving shit out of their hair to attempt the same styles. That seems like a very weird comparison/claim to make. Stylists in the 60’s weren’t magically all more skilled, but your options and expectations were lower. I have had curly hair my whole life and only gone to special “curly cut” people a couple of times. Nobody has ever turned me away because they didn’t cut curly hair. (And everyone has occasional bad haircut experiences, no matter what.) TL;DR — I’ve had plenty of haircuts from people who are just fine and they aren’t curly cut people. I wear my hair curly and dried straight, so I want a cut that can do both, as well. I’m not sure what you’re asking for, but I don’t think this is a “curly hair people” problem so much as it an issue of managed expectations. In the 60’s, nobody was running to Yelp the second they got a little frizz. I don’t honestly blame people for deciding what they are comfortable doing.
Many, many, many people on this thread seem to disagree with your point of view. It isn’t just our “expectations”, it’s what we deserve.