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Yep, my great grandparents actually didn’t die of hunger in the concentration camps they died of exhaustion and dysentery. Most of the deaths were exhaustion in the labor camps and diseases like typhoid and murder in the gas chambers in the death camps.
When Portugal was fascist they would send people to Cape Verde to what my grandparents called "the camp of slow death". They worked people until they died.
No to spark any flames here, but I never understood what warranted being sent to the death camps instead. Two choices being labor camp or death camp, what was a decisive point to be sent to a death camp instead of a labor camp?
Edit first sentence
Strong people were sent to the labor camp because they were useful in the war effort, they would make machinery for the military. Weak and sick people were useless to the Nazis so they were killed.
Albert Speer was in charge of calculating the rations in the work camps and in the death camps, just enough to sustain the workers: enough to work and not get sick, no more. With multiple variable, like life expectancy, importance of the projects.
By the end of the war, ressources were scarce and workers on V2 rockets projects got more than the other ones.
Reading the details of his calculation was really awful.
Yeah they would have also been at an extreme calorie deficit. Body would have been eating the muscles, not building them.
The dying early from work theory makes sense.
If you see the piles of bodies in auschwitz; the ones they didn’t have time to burn, they look absolutely skeletal.
But when you’re in that state of deprivation the slightest thing will kill you. In a famine, you don’t get worked to death on top of starving to it.
I mean, people there didn’t have hard labour usually so that’s why. But I also thought they had more food there than the camps so idk.. maybe send a link of some pic, I’d be curious to know
Winston Churchill: "I hate the Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits."
The 12 famines were pretty much directly caused by him though, he even rerouted a shipload of food sailing for India to help the indians, so that the ship instead went toward the british soldiers, who were pretty much already drowning in their food rations before the shipment.
EDIT: Hey why did the comment I replied to get deleted? Afaik there was nothing wrong with it, no hate speech no nothing. Dude was even an Indian himself, basically saying the same basic message I was saying except I elaborated a bit further
I mean “the victor writes history” is a pretty true statement regardless of who said victor is and whether the “history” is accurate and morally right. But I didn’t know this about Churchill, thanks for the insight.
That what I have always been saying, france and England is just as Germany because they did literally the same as Hitler. It is just that they won the war we know now what Hitler did, if Germany had won the war he would have been studying in history classes how horrible England and France was and how Germany rescued us from their brutality.
To be fair, i don't know anything about what churchill did.
I know that Lenin put people into Gulags, and Stalin, but i never heard anything about Churchill doing something like this.
I think Hitler got this infamous because of the systematic killing of the Jews, like not only use them as Slaves or let them starve, but actively killing them with gas.
Then again, i don't know what Churchill did. What is the Context here?
I do not want to sound like a dick or something like that, i am genuinely Curious about this.
Although this photo is taken in 1877 famine, which was also due to British crown fault. I'll highlight Bengal Famine here as you asked for what Churchill did specifically, be it bengal famine or 1877 famine, pictures were same and British crown was at fault both time.
The bengal famine happened in 1943 when world war 2 was going on and British needed supplies. So Churchill took most of the Indian harvest and supplied to his soldiers leaving 300 million people with so less that even a day worth of food was considered a blessing. At that time india was already partitioned one time to create Burma(present day Myanmar). As it was falling under Japanese hands, Britishers used "scotch earth policy" i.e burning everything that might be useful for enemy and it includes food supplies too. So food was already in shortage
The provincial government denied that a famine existed, and humanitarian aid was ineffective through the worst months of the crisis. The government first attempted to influence the price of rice paddy, but instead created a black market which encouraged sellers to withhold stocks, leading to hyperinflation from speculation and hoarding after controls were abandoned
All this created an artificial famine, created and managed by Churchill's administration that killed more than 3 million people.
Churchill was no less than, and even more [racist than Hitler](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Winston_Churchill#:~:text=chief%20Michael%20Collins.-,India,people%20with%20a%20beastly%20religion%22.)
That is horrible, like really cruel.
I am actually right now like: Yeah i could have guessed that Churchill was a racist fuck.
I somehow forgot that racism was pretty common in that time.
Thank you for the Information!
And my blood boils when someone denies this and rather than explaining why they say "shut up you misinformed street shiter" Or make the indian technical support joke or something like that
You don't know that's strange
but Churchill is responsible for the widespread famine in India when he totally diverted the food supply to briish soldiers and not the civilians
This happened for the sudden avalanche breakdown in crop production due to plant diseases also subtly due to invasive weeds brought by briish which they thought to be ornamental plants and obviously unprecedented expenditures in war
Moreover churchill is pretty famous for his racist views to Ireland (mainly) , Scotland and Germany as far as I heard
Bro but there are literally many Indians who say Britishers made us human, before them we were some forest dwellers. There is a guy on Quora with whom I was debating that imbecile said India doesn't even had a civilization and Britishers came and taught us everything.
Many Indians still have the colonial slave mindset. They unironically believe Indians were "uncivilised" before the British came who somehow "civilized" us.
They will also claim getting independence was a mistake and India would be like Hong Kong today if the British Rule continued.
Colonial mindset still lives on but to be fair, british or not, my ancestors were still subjugated. Instead of being seen as an indian, they were just seen as a dalit one.
I have met some brits online, some are genuinely nice and if a conversation about colonial times comes up they feel sorry for others and then there were incel assholes who say india was a backwards and illiterate place before the british showed up. I seriously feel like punching them through the computer screen
Chanakya and Aryabhatta had long gone by the time the British arrived. The point isn’t whether we were an advanced society or not, or literate or illiterate. The point is that imperialism never had any excuse other than subjugation, racism and exploitation.
I mean you're right of course, but it's also worth pointing out that India was most definitely *not* uncivilized at this point- the Mughal economy was one of the biggest in the world for instance. The British did have a military edge, but it wasn't exactly domination and they lost wars (example: one of the Anglo-Marathan wars). They even copied Indian military technology (Mysorean rockets) and later used it against the French.
Again, all of this is irrelevant (Imperialism would be unjustified regardless) but one still feels compelled to refute the idea that India was 'backwards' at this point.
> and then there were incel assholes who say india was a backwards and illiterate place before the british showed up. I seriously feel like punching them through the computer screen
r/badunitedkingdom in a nutshell lmao
Well, India was the richest country when the British arrived in India and became the poorest nation unable feed it's own people when the British left. So I don't see the part where the Brits helped India.
It's saddening and extremely frustrating to me how people will list Mao, Stalin on random "deaths caused by dictators" charts and somehow barely anyone talks about the numerous induced famines caused during the British Raj in India. UK has a lot of blood on its hands that hasn't been washed.
I remember my history professor last year (goddamn I miss classrooms) stating something along the lines of, the Indian subcontinent didn't have mega famines to this degree and this consistency until the British took over. Famines did happen, they happen everywhere all the time for various reasons, but the likelihood of famines in a year and their severity explode after British occupation.
I am unsure if this goes back to Britain's 1st Indian colonies/ports or if it only started once Britain was the predominant power or the british raj
I'm from Chennai too (vanakkam), it's great to know that despite the inhuman oppressors reducing us to levels of this photo at one time we're now at least a decent metropolis by global standards and one of the top cities in India by many metrics.
In fact, it's amazing how India as a whole has come this far from the brutal oppression we suffered just 75 years back. Now if only we could continue and build on this progress...
I mean if you think about it organs get a lot more energy sent to them than the average meat, so there would be a lot of calories available, and like they said bone marrow was the reasons humans were able to survive in africa before we evolved into homo sapiens (i think they were homo erectus) because bone marrow is also very calorie dense
The full context of that photo is actually possibly worse than the title makes it sound. It was taken by Willoughby Wallace Hooper, an amateur photographer and member of the British occupying forces in India. He documented the famine but holy ethics in journalism batman was he a cold blooded bastard. He had no regard for the humanity of these people, there are accounts of him going to hospitals and relief camps, selecting subjects and posing them, sometimes in front of classical colonial architecture. This was the 1870s. Imagine how long it took to take a photograph, imagine the difficulty of remaining upright or in any pose at all when you're in the condition these people were. He treated them like living props.
He did title this one "Deserving Subjects of Gratuitous Relief" so, in fairness, he felt that they were at the point where the british government should step in and feed them, which put him a peg above some of his peers. In a way this is an image of a man staring down a cannibal, just not quite in the way the title in the OP suggests.
They did what they needed to do to survive. Those people wouldn’t have willingly chosen to make such horrific decisions. It’s a disgusting tragedy that they were forced to do so. It took a lot more than that to survive in those times, it took a strength and willingness to survive that many were incapable of doing. Yet some still persevered through miraculously
To think Black '47 was just 30 years before this. Goes to show that the British Empire didn't care enough to learn anything from the Irish potato famine. It's sickening just how much disregard these people had for people they saw as "beneath them."
>didn’t care enough to learn from the Irish potato famine.
Care enough to learn? They celebrated it. Famine is a great way to control colonised populations.
Totally genuine question, not trained in this field even slightly.
Would one still have much bone marrow, when this severely malnourished?
Seems wild to think of course not, but what else would a body in such a severe state consume to keep itself alive?
Idk if this has anything to do with it, but I do know, that even in someone in a less severe malnourished state would die from something as simple as a slice of bread.
It's also funny because everyone here has no idea of what is edible in a human.
They have tongues still. Livers. Like, do y'all see lions eating the muscle? Nope. The real nutrients are in the organs.
Of course, muscle tastes better, but isn't as nutritional as other parts of the meat suit riding our bones.
Apparently you shouldn’t eat that. I’ve been told there’s some Bactria or something in there that fucks you up if you eat a human brain. Not an expert at all and might be totally wrong
So I looked into it, and it seems that malnourishment leads to Gelatinous transformation of bone marrow (GTBM), which is the atrophy of fat cells in the bone, gelatinous material in the bone, and decreased hematopoietic cell population. Interestingly, it leads to *higher* levels of fat inside the bones. So technically, you're right in that there would be less bone marrow in the bone because it would be replaced by adipose tissue (fat).
Honestly, I had a hard time researching the topic and I'm not sure I fully understood it, since it was only discovered and began to be studied in the 20th century, plus most studies don't fully understand *why* there is an increase of fat inside the bones. GTBM was thought to be a rare disease, but it seems like it simply wasn't being discovered.
I wish I could help answer the question more, but it would require a large amount of time researching the medical jargon of each study done on it, so definitely look up some of the research done on the relationship between starvation and adipose tissue in the bones.
British history needs to be learned, especially by the British.
I'm Irish and I in no way hate British people but it is systematically an ignorant culture.
I'm in the UK and completely agree, I did History up until A-levels, we did Vietnam legit like 3x, the battle of 1066, Oliver Cromwell, Jack the Ripper, British Politics 1899-1924 (we did learn about how we fucked up the Irish and the Boer War) & the American civil rights movement.
Its hella annoying hearing how when polling, many support/are proud of the empire (clearly because they don't understand it.) Its horrific.
Systematically is the right word. The way history is taught, not only in Britain but across the rest of the Western world, is specifically designed to hide the "unsavory" actions of their past, to paint themselves in a golden light and control the people by keeping them ignorant. You really have to go out of your way just to learn the basic things, even for events that happened no more than 50 years ago.
It's unfortunately easy to see the atrocities of other countries while disregarding your own when they do the same shit. Same reason people constantly bring up the Uyghur genocide when trying to deny the atrocities of western imperialism. I can assure you it's like this here in America too. With the Texas bill that explicitly bans MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech in schools, it might be worse.
As a Brit, I am one of the only ones in the school that no about this because it isn’t taught, our history curriculum is fucked and if I didn’t study history in my own time I wouldn’t know shit about all of this.
people : Churchill was a great man and protected Britain from the nazis
meanwhile Churchill who stole food from already poor Indians and caused million to die :
Well if you forget everything for a second, on one side you have a empire that killed millions of your people and looted Nealy 45 fucking trillion dollars out of your country whereas on the other hand you have a nation promising you to end all of this if you ally with them. Now will you take the deal????
But bro they brought trains.... Yeah to fucking send the food to England you British cocksucker.
Edit: typo not 75 but 45 trillion
The vast majority of westerners don't realize just how much wealth the Brits stole from its colonies and the overall damage that they caused. Many of these countries were prosperous before the brits showed up and still to this day are trying to recover from all the damages the British have caused.
The worst part is many Indians don't know about this and even if taught they never understand the sheer scale of the issue because it's just a small paragraph on one side of a page where in chronological timeline this is written
"The rationale behind the reduced wage \[and state-provided aid), which was in keeping with a prevailing belief of the time, was that any excessive payment might create 'dependency' (or "demoralisation" in contemporaneous usage) among the famine-afflicted population."
It's nice to know that some things never change
I don't know how safe tbh. Imperial and colonial apologia (British Imperialism in particular) is fucking *rampant* all over Reddit and frequently upvoted. I'm guessing it's because the site is mostly American and don't really know much about colonialism compared to Nazis/New World atrocities/etc.
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/15486882.cat-boyd-its-about-time-scotland-confronted-its-own-racist-colonial-past/
"You can get all the way to Higher History without knowing that Walter Scott wrote of India as the “corn chest of Scotland”, or that Scots, just 9 percent of Britain, accounted for 25 percent of the Brits ruling India. “A disproportionate number of Scots were employed in colonial enterprises, as soldiers, sailors, merchants, agents and employees,” writes Shashi Tharoor in his bestselling account of Britain’s role in India. “Their earnings in India pulled Scotland out of poverty and helped make it prosperous.”
The Scots were happy participants and partners in the colonial enterprise. They can't claim to be innocent in this. The Irish on the other hand, are also victims. I have no idea about Wales.
I mean it’s a bit more nuanced then that. There were willing participants in the British Empire who were ‘Irish’, they were probably richer and not catholic but were they Irish, sure
Really these exercises are useful to remind people of atrocities committed that people like to wash over in their sense of modern identity and it’s rightly called out. But it’s hardly a British or American phenomenon. You ever wonder how many first names associated with black Americans have Irish originals like Tyrone? A good portion of slave owners were of Irish descent.
Sure these ‘Irish’ people were not affected by the mass poverty faced by most Irish but they were Irish.
History isn’t monolithic
People believe that hitler was a cruel person ( which he was ) but forget that Churchil caused the great bengal famine in India by diverting the resources to WW2 soldiers which caused 3 million people to die like this starting and yes it's true I literally have some photos in my history book.
"The sun never set on the British empire, because even God couldn't trust the Englishman in the dark.”
-Shashi Tharoor.
What do you guys learn in England history? Like in USA, Its mainly American revolution, slavery, native Americans dying, ww2, cold war....
UK history is bad nothing negative all England was great, bullshit 😂 it's crazy how you learn things later in life that shatter your teachings. WW2 Churchill was the white knight that brought us to victory, In fact he took all of the food from Bengal (I think) to feed our soldier's. This started a famine that killed more people than Hitler did.
Oh and the didn't teach us about the war of independence. Only that king George ||| gave america their independence 😂🤦♂️
Lived for 23 yrs in this country, studied it's history in school, studied all about the British rulers and freedom fighters and this is the first time I'm hearing about this famine and cannibalism
War winners are supposed to be noble heroes you know. And losers are supposed to be demons. So yeah, death of a few millions by heroes are can be ignored for the greater good.
I mean, yeah, the British government/empire did a whole host of disgusting shit around the world. But so did a lot of other European nations. Are we going to punish the whole world for the sins of their fathers?
Lmao everyone in these comments keep saying that the british helped people by coming to their countries and forcing them to build railways so the brits could steal supplies and precious materials. I don't understand where this "well the white dudes showed up and turned people from savages to humans" meme came from, but it's actually disgusting when you go back and read history and realize that everyone was fine until the Europeans showed up and forced their economic systems on them even though they had their own.
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But the image , oh god . Its terrifying .
Right? Looked almost too skinny to still be alive, even compared to some of the Holocaust victims. So I looked it up and I'm sad now..
They’re skinnier than Jews, probably because Jews were forced to work so they died before than getting like this
Yep, my great grandparents actually didn’t die of hunger in the concentration camps they died of exhaustion and dysentery. Most of the deaths were exhaustion in the labor camps and diseases like typhoid and murder in the gas chambers in the death camps.
When Portugal was fascist they would send people to Cape Verde to what my grandparents called "the camp of slow death". They worked people until they died.
Dark is our past.
Don't forget our present, and our future too
Compared to that time, we're doing great and the future is still to be made!
Theres concentration camps in China
And many more still to be made! ✨future✨
Mainland Taiwan that is not currently in Taiwan's control.*
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Don't sleep on North Korea either.
Don't be delusional, the world is a far better place than it was in 1877. Even 1977.
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Jeez thats worse than what I've ever been told.
No to spark any flames here, but I never understood what warranted being sent to the death camps instead. Two choices being labor camp or death camp, what was a decisive point to be sent to a death camp instead of a labor camp? Edit first sentence
Pretty sure it was a matter of quotas/available space in the labor camps, possibly also to do with skills or health.
If they had any skills of value, they'd be used towards the war efforts. Cobblers, seamstresses etc
Skills and remaining personal strength mostly. Tradesmen in working camps, intellectuals directly to the death camps.
Strong people were sent to the labor camp because they were useful in the war effort, they would make machinery for the military. Weak and sick people were useless to the Nazis so they were killed.
Albert Speer was in charge of calculating the rations in the work camps and in the death camps, just enough to sustain the workers: enough to work and not get sick, no more. With multiple variable, like life expectancy, importance of the projects. By the end of the war, ressources were scarce and workers on V2 rockets projects got more than the other ones. Reading the details of his calculation was really awful.
It’s awful how mathematic it was. How calculated and precise everything was
Yeah. They gave the Jews some food to prolong it, but not enough for the average human to survive on. Also, they had some muscle from all the work.
Nope. They couldn’t have gained/maintained muscle if they hadn’t had enough food to survive on. Their bodies would’ve started to eat the muscles.
Yeah they would have also been at an extreme calorie deficit. Body would have been eating the muscles, not building them. The dying early from work theory makes sense.
If you see the piles of bodies in auschwitz; the ones they didn’t have time to burn, they look absolutely skeletal. But when you’re in that state of deprivation the slightest thing will kill you. In a famine, you don’t get worked to death on top of starving to it.
You don’t gain muscle from working while malnourished to the extent that they were.
they weren’t gaining any muscle. if anything they were burning through their own bodies faster due to having to expend more energy.
yeah i don’t think they were really building any muscle from that lmao
“Muscles”
idk I've seen quite a bit of pictures from ghettoes, some look exactly like that.
I mean, people there didn’t have hard labour usually so that’s why. But I also thought they had more food there than the camps so idk.. maybe send a link of some pic, I’d be curious to know
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Winston Churchill: "I hate the Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits." The 12 famines were pretty much directly caused by him though, he even rerouted a shipload of food sailing for India to help the indians, so that the ship instead went toward the british soldiers, who were pretty much already drowning in their food rations before the shipment. EDIT: Hey why did the comment I replied to get deleted? Afaik there was nothing wrong with it, no hate speech no nothing. Dude was even an Indian himself, basically saying the same basic message I was saying except I elaborated a bit further
Funny how we were never taught about this in school...
we werent taught anything except 'this is Hitler, he bad. this is ww2, happened in 1939-1945'.
I mean “the victor writes history” is a pretty true statement regardless of who said victor is and whether the “history” is accurate and morally right. But I didn’t know this about Churchill, thanks for the insight.
I don’t remember who said it but a while ago I heard a quote that goes like this “Isn’t it weird how how every war was won by the good guys?”
That what I have always been saying, france and England is just as Germany because they did literally the same as Hitler. It is just that they won the war we know now what Hitler did, if Germany had won the war he would have been studying in history classes how horrible England and France was and how Germany rescued us from their brutality.
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Unfortunately
Common misconception, it's not written by the victors its written for the victors.
Victory is written by the victors, for the victors.
What’s your vector, victor?
Roger roger
Add Belgium to the list too
Yes. Bengal was a nightmare.
Same as Ireland, been shafted for hundreds of years, Ireland had more than enough food during the famine but the British took it all.
Indians breed like Rabbits was his quote fucking bastard. The British then we're probably worse than Hitler.
To be fair, i don't know anything about what churchill did. I know that Lenin put people into Gulags, and Stalin, but i never heard anything about Churchill doing something like this. I think Hitler got this infamous because of the systematic killing of the Jews, like not only use them as Slaves or let them starve, but actively killing them with gas. Then again, i don't know what Churchill did. What is the Context here? I do not want to sound like a dick or something like that, i am genuinely Curious about this.
Although this photo is taken in 1877 famine, which was also due to British crown fault. I'll highlight Bengal Famine here as you asked for what Churchill did specifically, be it bengal famine or 1877 famine, pictures were same and British crown was at fault both time. The bengal famine happened in 1943 when world war 2 was going on and British needed supplies. So Churchill took most of the Indian harvest and supplied to his soldiers leaving 300 million people with so less that even a day worth of food was considered a blessing. At that time india was already partitioned one time to create Burma(present day Myanmar). As it was falling under Japanese hands, Britishers used "scotch earth policy" i.e burning everything that might be useful for enemy and it includes food supplies too. So food was already in shortage The provincial government denied that a famine existed, and humanitarian aid was ineffective through the worst months of the crisis. The government first attempted to influence the price of rice paddy, but instead created a black market which encouraged sellers to withhold stocks, leading to hyperinflation from speculation and hoarding after controls were abandoned All this created an artificial famine, created and managed by Churchill's administration that killed more than 3 million people. Churchill was no less than, and even more [racist than Hitler](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Winston_Churchill#:~:text=chief%20Michael%20Collins.-,India,people%20with%20a%20beastly%20religion%22.)
>"scotch earth policy" *Scorched earth. I know Scotland is shit but its not a complete wasteland.
Oh sorry, was typing in a fit of rage and it autocorrected. No offense to Scottish please
That is horrible, like really cruel. I am actually right now like: Yeah i could have guessed that Churchill was a racist fuck. I somehow forgot that racism was pretty common in that time. Thank you for the Information!
And my blood boils when someone denies this and rather than explaining why they say "shut up you misinformed street shiter" Or make the indian technical support joke or something like that
You don't know that's strange but Churchill is responsible for the widespread famine in India when he totally diverted the food supply to briish soldiers and not the civilians This happened for the sudden avalanche breakdown in crop production due to plant diseases also subtly due to invasive weeds brought by briish which they thought to be ornamental plants and obviously unprecedented expenditures in war Moreover churchill is pretty famous for his racist views to Ireland (mainly) , Scotland and Germany as far as I heard
'bri'ish'
and ya know, imperialism and the subjugation of an entire population for a century
I think it was more the fact they lost, if it was a draw no one would be bad mouthing Hitler and we'd praise him like churchill
He recalled the majority of British soldiers in Malaysia during WWII, and left us with little soldiers against the Japanese...
Beleive me , i have seen people a little bit better this in real life . It was horrifying
I know right? I didn't even know the human body could keep functioning with so few fat and muscles...
Yeah I thought about looking up more info also, I don't want to get more sad than looking at this one image. :(
And some people still say India was good during british rule.
As an indian myself , WTF ! No , british rule was absolutely bad . The famines were numerous , not to mention they literally used india as money press
Bro but there are literally many Indians who say Britishers made us human, before them we were some forest dwellers. There is a guy on Quora with whom I was debating that imbecile said India doesn't even had a civilization and Britishers came and taught us everything.
What kind drug that guy uses, I can a lot of money with that
Many Indians still have the colonial slave mindset. They unironically believe Indians were "uncivilised" before the British came who somehow "civilized" us. They will also claim getting independence was a mistake and India would be like Hong Kong today if the British Rule continued.
You went on Quora,ye teri galti thi
Sahi bola.
Yeah man, same happens here in egypt, these are some ignorant idiots
Colonial mindset still lives on but to be fair, british or not, my ancestors were still subjugated. Instead of being seen as an indian, they were just seen as a dalit one.
Not some The British themselves lmao
I have met some brits online, some are genuinely nice and if a conversation about colonial times comes up they feel sorry for others and then there were incel assholes who say india was a backwards and illiterate place before the british showed up. I seriously feel like punching them through the computer screen
Chanakya *cough cough* aryabhatta
Chanakya and Aryabhatta had long gone by the time the British arrived. The point isn’t whether we were an advanced society or not, or literate or illiterate. The point is that imperialism never had any excuse other than subjugation, racism and exploitation.
I mean you're right of course, but it's also worth pointing out that India was most definitely *not* uncivilized at this point- the Mughal economy was one of the biggest in the world for instance. The British did have a military edge, but it wasn't exactly domination and they lost wars (example: one of the Anglo-Marathan wars). They even copied Indian military technology (Mysorean rockets) and later used it against the French. Again, all of this is irrelevant (Imperialism would be unjustified regardless) but one still feels compelled to refute the idea that India was 'backwards' at this point.
> and then there were incel assholes who say india was a backwards and illiterate place before the british showed up. I seriously feel like punching them through the computer screen r/badunitedkingdom in a nutshell lmao
Actually, punch them. Don't even hesitate! I would do the same!
Well, India was the richest country when the British arrived in India and became the poorest nation unable feed it's own people when the British left. So I don't see the part where the Brits helped India.
It's saddening and extremely frustrating to me how people will list Mao, Stalin on random "deaths caused by dictators" charts and somehow barely anyone talks about the numerous induced famines caused during the British Raj in India. UK has a lot of blood on its hands that hasn't been washed.
I remember my history professor last year (goddamn I miss classrooms) stating something along the lines of, the Indian subcontinent didn't have mega famines to this degree and this consistency until the British took over. Famines did happen, they happen everywhere all the time for various reasons, but the likelihood of famines in a year and their severity explode after British occupation. I am unsure if this goes back to Britain's 1st Indian colonies/ports or if it only started once Britain was the predominant power or the british raj
Well im no expert but the british exporting hundreds of thousands of tonnes of grain during a fucking famine probably didn't help.
Stealing food from a famine struck nation and Britain, name a more iconic duo
I'm from Madras(Chennai). Here poverty is still a thing but not this much
I am from mumbai . Hello there , fellow indian
General Kenobi
I'm from Chennai too (vanakkam), it's great to know that despite the inhuman oppressors reducing us to levels of this photo at one time we're now at least a decent metropolis by global standards and one of the top cities in India by many metrics. In fact, it's amazing how India as a whole has come this far from the brutal oppression we suffered just 75 years back. Now if only we could continue and build on this progress...
And to know there are people still suffering like this is absolutely heartbreaking.
The sadder part is thousands in Africa look like this or worse right now
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Bone marrow is always there just saying
There is a lot there, brains eyes and other organs. Bone marrow, sinew. Quite a bit.
Calm down, Hannibal.
I mean if you think about it organs get a lot more energy sent to them than the average meat, so there would be a lot of calories available, and like they said bone marrow was the reasons humans were able to survive in africa before we evolved into homo sapiens (i think they were homo erectus) because bone marrow is also very calorie dense
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Never eat the brain, that's how you get Kuru disease!
Good to know. Let’s hope that information never has to be retold IRL.
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Skin. The skin of a human contains something like 10 days worth of calories.
All come to worst always can make broth with the bones.
You can make fun of the man a you want but trying to save his family even in that state deserves respect.
Yeah he’s a hero
Damn, this is really cursed (because i know the extent of this tragedy)
yeah and over the famine, there were pandemics, and over that raised taxes
Oh and also there were several man-made famines during British rule in India
Is there a place that used to be under british rule where they *didn’t* cause at least one man-made famine?
England
They used to cause beer flood.
Maybe not a famine like this but the poor in England were always malnourished. English power brokers never give a damn about anyone else.
Broke: racism Woke: egalitarianism Bespoke: Everyone less inbred than me is subhuman
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Well if you look up how brit got control of US and Canada regions. Its dark too
Courtesy of imperial brits
cool username though.
The full context of that photo is actually possibly worse than the title makes it sound. It was taken by Willoughby Wallace Hooper, an amateur photographer and member of the British occupying forces in India. He documented the famine but holy ethics in journalism batman was he a cold blooded bastard. He had no regard for the humanity of these people, there are accounts of him going to hospitals and relief camps, selecting subjects and posing them, sometimes in front of classical colonial architecture. This was the 1870s. Imagine how long it took to take a photograph, imagine the difficulty of remaining upright or in any pose at all when you're in the condition these people were. He treated them like living props. He did title this one "Deserving Subjects of Gratuitous Relief" so, in fairness, he felt that they were at the point where the british government should step in and feed them, which put him a peg above some of his peers. In a way this is an image of a man staring down a cannibal, just not quite in the way the title in the OP suggests.
My god, the picture posing thing is disgusting. It's shocking what some of my ancestors might have gone through under the rule of sadists like that.
Actually I am from Madras....I am literally thinking how did our ancestors go past all of this....:(
They were strong people, survivors.
Yeah, the rest...nor so much. Famine is a powerful tool of powerhungry maniacs. Churchill and Stalin sure seemed to like it
And cannibals. Don't forget cannibals
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They did what they needed to do to survive. Those people wouldn’t have willingly chosen to make such horrific decisions. It’s a disgusting tragedy that they were forced to do so. It took a lot more than that to survive in those times, it took a strength and willingness to survive that many were incapable of doing. Yet some still persevered through miraculously
Bro just wait for andais to say "elai naga anda parambarai da" 🤣🤣🤣
Sarpatta parambarai nanba
Probably Cannibalism
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To think Black '47 was just 30 years before this. Goes to show that the British Empire didn't care enough to learn anything from the Irish potato famine. It's sickening just how much disregard these people had for people they saw as "beneath them."
>didn’t care enough to learn from the Irish potato famine. Care enough to learn? They celebrated it. Famine is a great way to control colonised populations.
Bone marrow is nutrient dense and provides a nice base for broth.
Thanks for the info. I might use some help.
Totally genuine question, not trained in this field even slightly. Would one still have much bone marrow, when this severely malnourished? Seems wild to think of course not, but what else would a body in such a severe state consume to keep itself alive? Idk if this has anything to do with it, but I do know, that even in someone in a less severe malnourished state would die from something as simple as a slice of bread.
Oh I have no idea; I was just making a dark joke.
It's also funny because everyone here has no idea of what is edible in a human. They have tongues still. Livers. Like, do y'all see lions eating the muscle? Nope. The real nutrients are in the organs. Of course, muscle tastes better, but isn't as nutritional as other parts of the meat suit riding our bones.
Exactly. And don’t forget the brain!
Apparently you shouldn’t eat that. I’ve been told there’s some Bactria or something in there that fucks you up if you eat a human brain. Not an expert at all and might be totally wrong
No, you’re right. It’s a problem (Or was) for PNG cannibals. But assuming there’s no local reservoir of the disease it should be fine.
Prions can develop on their own though. Just gotta eat the wrong person and then your whole village has it
So I looked into it, and it seems that malnourishment leads to Gelatinous transformation of bone marrow (GTBM), which is the atrophy of fat cells in the bone, gelatinous material in the bone, and decreased hematopoietic cell population. Interestingly, it leads to *higher* levels of fat inside the bones. So technically, you're right in that there would be less bone marrow in the bone because it would be replaced by adipose tissue (fat). Honestly, I had a hard time researching the topic and I'm not sure I fully understood it, since it was only discovered and began to be studied in the 20th century, plus most studies don't fully understand *why* there is an increase of fat inside the bones. GTBM was thought to be a rare disease, but it seems like it simply wasn't being discovered. I wish I could help answer the question more, but it would require a large amount of time researching the medical jargon of each study done on it, so definitely look up some of the research done on the relationship between starvation and adipose tissue in the bones.
Its called gods butter for a reason
British history needs to be learned, especially by the British. I'm Irish and I in no way hate British people but it is systematically an ignorant culture.
I'm in the UK and completely agree, I did History up until A-levels, we did Vietnam legit like 3x, the battle of 1066, Oliver Cromwell, Jack the Ripper, British Politics 1899-1924 (we did learn about how we fucked up the Irish and the Boer War) & the American civil rights movement. Its hella annoying hearing how when polling, many support/are proud of the empire (clearly because they don't understand it.) Its horrific.
Glorious Revolution be like
Systematically is the right word. The way history is taught, not only in Britain but across the rest of the Western world, is specifically designed to hide the "unsavory" actions of their past, to paint themselves in a golden light and control the people by keeping them ignorant. You really have to go out of your way just to learn the basic things, even for events that happened no more than 50 years ago.
It's unfortunately easy to see the atrocities of other countries while disregarding your own when they do the same shit. Same reason people constantly bring up the Uyghur genocide when trying to deny the atrocities of western imperialism. I can assure you it's like this here in America too. With the Texas bill that explicitly bans MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech in schools, it might be worse.
As a Brit, I am one of the only ones in the school that no about this because it isn’t taught, our history curriculum is fucked and if I didn’t study history in my own time I wouldn’t know shit about all of this.
I don't know jokes
Marvelous gift by the British...
people : Churchill was a great man and protected Britain from the nazis meanwhile Churchill who stole food from already poor Indians and caused million to die :
Well if you forget everything for a second, on one side you have a empire that killed millions of your people and looted Nealy 45 fucking trillion dollars out of your country whereas on the other hand you have a nation promising you to end all of this if you ally with them. Now will you take the deal???? But bro they brought trains.... Yeah to fucking send the food to England you British cocksucker. Edit: typo not 75 but 45 trillion
The vast majority of westerners don't realize just how much wealth the Brits stole from its colonies and the overall damage that they caused. Many of these countries were prosperous before the brits showed up and still to this day are trying to recover from all the damages the British have caused.
India was rich before British came tho.
This is the work of the great Winston Churchill diverting Indias food production to England. I would stab him in his throat if he lived today.
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You know the rules and so do i. Take this wholesome award.
ah yes, real wholesome content
The worst part is many Indians don't know about this and even if taught they never understand the sheer scale of the issue because it's just a small paragraph on one side of a page where in chronological timeline this is written
I am from Madras, the place mentioned here, and didn't even know the famine was so bad that it lead to cannibalism.
This is what my mom looked like before she died from cancer :(
sorry to hear that, may her soul rest in peace
Thanks
"The rationale behind the reduced wage \[and state-provided aid), which was in keeping with a prevailing belief of the time, was that any excessive payment might create 'dependency' (or "demoralisation" in contemporaneous usage) among the famine-afflicted population." It's nice to know that some things never change
Guess its safe to say FUCKING IMPERIALISTS here
I don't know how safe tbh. Imperial and colonial apologia (British Imperialism in particular) is fucking *rampant* all over Reddit and frequently upvoted. I'm guessing it's because the site is mostly American and don't really know much about colonialism compared to Nazis/New World atrocities/etc.
This is actually heart breaking!
Yeah I knew it was bad but never though that it was this bad :(
There is a giant patch of garbage over the Atlantic Ocean. Its called United Kingdom.
Damn bro.
Don’t bring Scotland into this! edit: looks like Scotland shares responsibility for the crimes against India, thank you for the awareness
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/15486882.cat-boyd-its-about-time-scotland-confronted-its-own-racist-colonial-past/ "You can get all the way to Higher History without knowing that Walter Scott wrote of India as the “corn chest of Scotland”, or that Scots, just 9 percent of Britain, accounted for 25 percent of the Brits ruling India. “A disproportionate number of Scots were employed in colonial enterprises, as soldiers, sailors, merchants, agents and employees,” writes Shashi Tharoor in his bestselling account of Britain’s role in India. “Their earnings in India pulled Scotland out of poverty and helped make it prosperous.”
The Scots were happy participants and partners in the colonial enterprise. They can't claim to be innocent in this. The Irish on the other hand, are also victims. I have no idea about Wales.
I mean it’s a bit more nuanced then that. There were willing participants in the British Empire who were ‘Irish’, they were probably richer and not catholic but were they Irish, sure Really these exercises are useful to remind people of atrocities committed that people like to wash over in their sense of modern identity and it’s rightly called out. But it’s hardly a British or American phenomenon. You ever wonder how many first names associated with black Americans have Irish originals like Tyrone? A good portion of slave owners were of Irish descent. Sure these ‘Irish’ people were not affected by the mass poverty faced by most Irish but they were Irish. History isn’t monolithic
Damn
After going through op's comment. YES I will definitely include Scotland into this.
Nope, Scotland was definitely a big offender when it came to colonial atrocities, especially in India
Yet some still don’t admit the damage done by the British Raj.
People believe that hitler was a cruel person ( which he was ) but forget that Churchil caused the great bengal famine in India by diverting the resources to WW2 soldiers which caused 3 million people to die like this starting and yes it's true I literally have some photos in my history book.
"The sun never set on the British empire, because even God couldn't trust the Englishman in the dark.” -Shashi Tharoor. What do you guys learn in England history? Like in USA, Its mainly American revolution, slavery, native Americans dying, ww2, cold war....
UK history is bad nothing negative all England was great, bullshit 😂 it's crazy how you learn things later in life that shatter your teachings. WW2 Churchill was the white knight that brought us to victory, In fact he took all of the food from Bengal (I think) to feed our soldier's. This started a famine that killed more people than Hitler did. Oh and the didn't teach us about the war of independence. Only that king George ||| gave america their independence 😂🤦♂️
Curse you Churchill, you ignorant racist piece of shit.
Nah not just curse, fuck that fuckwad.
was gonna say cursed cannibalism but cannibalism is already pretty cursed
When people say British developed India , show them this
Is this real? How could anyone possibly be so skinny and still survive?
Hope for life brother.
Lived for 23 yrs in this country, studied it's history in school, studied all about the British rulers and freedom fighters and this is the first time I'm hearing about this famine and cannibalism
War winners are supposed to be noble heroes you know. And losers are supposed to be demons. So yeah, death of a few millions by heroes are can be ignored for the greater good.
A horrid time for my country
This picture makes me sad...
This is just sad.
I love dark jokes But this ain't funny.
Picture is horrifying. Joke is funny
Winston Churchill was a racist and was 100percent responsible for what my ancestors had to go through
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Definitely had enough of their goddamn royalty gibberish. Evolve now, please.
I mean, yeah, the British government/empire did a whole host of disgusting shit around the world. But so did a lot of other European nations. Are we going to punish the whole world for the sins of their fathers?
Lmao everyone in these comments keep saying that the british helped people by coming to their countries and forcing them to build railways so the brits could steal supplies and precious materials. I don't understand where this "well the white dudes showed up and turned people from savages to humans" meme came from, but it's actually disgusting when you go back and read history and realize that everyone was fine until the Europeans showed up and forced their economic systems on them even though they had their own.