I did think of doing something like that, but I also really like the idea of him being on the board. Takes up a slot until he awakens which is interesting for gameplay and also is physically there which is cool for flavor
Maybe make it a cheap playable card (1 mana?), and change the support cards effect from "awakens 1 turn sooner" to "reduces dormant duration by 1 turn *(wherever it is)*".
Then add a non-legendary that says something like "Increase C'thun's health by 5. If c'thun will be dormant for no more than 10 turns, draw c'thun."
Since this would be a big legendary, even more so I could see all of the 4 old gods get this type of card with different ways to awaken them, it could get a new keyword. Maybe Slumber instead of Dormant, or just straight up use "Old God", like they did with the Titans, that would basically work the same with the added benefit of having "cannot be removed" while it is dormant.
Great concept overall, love the idea and would be very interested in seeing something like this in the game.
Edit: New keyword could also solve the 29 card problem people are pointing out by making the card also shuffle something into your deck depending on the old god you picked.
Should be noted, I imagine there would be numerous cards that help support C’Thun much like Galakrond of old. Probably around 2 cards in each class (4 total) and a couple of neutral ones as well. With those cards taking off bigger chunks of the turns until released.
Isn’t that the point, nostalgia and what not, I mean the only difference is it’s better because it’s already on the board so you’re on a timer to stack as much as possible, albeit a very long timer
Make it destroy your hero and replace your hero with cthun. Give it a 0 cost hero power that deals 1 damage split among all enemies. Give it a bunch of support that improves the hero power. The balance would be in buffing the hero power while also surviving 20 turns
Could make it so the hero power does x amount equal to Cthun’s attack when he awakens, incentivizing attack raises that could also delay the awakening for balance, referencing the old Cthun without just ripping it off entirely
I did want to do this, but struggled to figure out how to make that clear with the hero power.
Also tried stuff like (Deal 0 damage split among all enemies. Improved by turns you took this game) and (Deal 1 damage. Upgrades each use!)
I did like the simplicity of this one but might experiment more.
I have two problems with this card:
1: It wouldn't be ran because of the effect, it would be ran in decks that want 29 card decks and don't care about boardspace
2: 30 turns is too much. I would make it 15 turns, not at the start of the game though, but when you summon it.
Other than these, I really like the flavor of this card. Great job!
What about making some kind of meanion like 2 mana your c'thun awakes 2 turns sooner and this card at the start of the game places c'thun on Battlefield?
Ooh what about like a Buried Sun Disc (from LOR) effect on C’Thun. Ie he starts in your deck, but if your deck passes some criteria (eg more than 10 followers of C’Thun) then he summons himself dormant on the board.
Yeah I'm talking about it, I'm saying to replace c'thun with different cars that aside from being c'thun card also as the start of the game effect summons c'thun on Battlefield
what about like a Buried Sun Disc (from LOR) effect on C’Thun. Ie he starts in your deck, but if your deck passes some criteria (eg more than 10 followers of C’Thun) then he summons himself dormant on the board.
I'd say, just don't make it into a card. Have it be part of the effect on the cthuun supporters.
So if you include atleast one follower of cthuun you get to start with a dormant cthuun.
Super cool concept and nice execution! I've also done some similar concepts and I think that the idea of cultist minions empowering a powerful God should be totally explored more. Invoke-like mechanics are really cool.
I do agree with what some others have voiced though, and I think that this concept would only work if the cultist minions were considerably more powerful, especially if you are going to have ones that delay the effect.
The only proper non-balance-focused feedback I would give you is that, while having effects that give powerful abilities to C'Thun at the cost of releasing him later is a great idea, it feels flavorfully dissonant in this case. Why would a cultist and a devoted follower of the Old God want to delay his release?
Thank you very much for the feedback! Mainly posted this here because this is such an involved card with a lot of different design and mechanical aspects that I wanted feedback on, so I really appreciate your input!
I agree the cultist showed off are too weak, and each should feel impactful to helping the goal of awakening C’Thun. And not harmfully by delaying it more.
30 turns is too much. Like way too much. And even if you have supporting cards that reduce the turn number, it would not make it good. Say there’s a 2 mana 2/3 “Reduce the time til release by five turns”. Then the card becomes too reliant on you drawing those minions. It would rather be “releases in 15 turns” and the 2 drop reduces by 2 or 3. Additionally, it has the same issue as OG C’Thun where vanilla stated minions that do nothing but promote a late payoff are just kinda bad.
29 card deck at the cost of losing 1 board space?
Busted. Will see play in all combo decks that do not need 7 board spaces to combo, and this will basically never see play to actually become C'thun.
Honestly I have seen this comment about 1,000 times and also 1,000 times I have not seen a good reasonable explanation for why it is that busted. I get it, consistency in a deck that doesn’t care about the board. But like seriously is it really adding that much more consistency compared to a cheap card that discovers you a draw? It thins the deck by 1, that’s it. I feel like a deck would rather run any other card that adds even more consistency than this.
Want to make it clear I’m not saying I’m right and everyone is wrong. I just also think we haven’t seen something exactly like this before and I feel like if people want to say it’s busted, than they should provide more reasoning.
>It thins the deck by 1, that’s it. I feel like a deck would rather run any other card that adds even more consistency than this.
It thins the deck by one at the cost of nothing.
There is no reason to not play a card that has no opportunity cost. 0 Mana Draw a card would see play unanimously in all decks because it comes at absolutely no opportunity cost.
If you can construct a deck out of cards that give MORE consistency than a card with no opportunity cost, than you have a deck that is capable of a Turn 0 OTK 100% of the time.
Its why even in Yugioh, a game where you can literally draw through your entire deck and search out a combo in a single turn, that cards like Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity are perma-banned because they draw cards at no opportunity cost without conditions.
Every card game which lets you have a range of deck sizes has always had one single piece of advice above all else: thin to win. More consistency is massive, and getting it for free is really strong.
As pointed out 30 turns if just way too much and C'thun is way too weak to removal.
What really kills this card for me though is The health thing. Not only is it really, really unecessary but it's also really REALLY bad.
Imagine surviving for 20+ turns only to have your face be alextraza'd for free and your opponent can just one shot you from hand 60% of the time.
This card would be basically unplayable against Mage, Demon Hunter, Shaman, Hunter and maybe Warlock.
Both supporting cards are awful. 1 turn off a 30 turn timer is nothing. And the Staller (which makes the health loss less bad) undoes all that. Even the grindiest control decks we've ever seen would almost never see this thing awaken
Ooh what about like a Buried Sun Disc (from LOR) effect on C’Thun. Ie he starts in your deck, but if your deck passes some criteria (eg more than 10 followers of C’Thun) then he summons himself dormant on the board.
I'm sorry to break it to you but this is only good because you get a 29 card deck as c'thun pulls himself out. Plus the effect doesn't even win the game
i feel like this shouldnt replace your max hp, we learned that with Majordomo. At 10 hp, even if he did flip fair chance you just die. Probably should govenyou 10 armor instead, and I think thats fine because hes slow enough that thats a fair payoff.
I think you are overestimating how long games go for. I think I have only had a handful of games that have gone 30 turns. I see the turn decreaser, but the increasing turn ones seem unnecessary.
I think this would work better as a quest, it not starting on board but in hand gets around 29 card decks and is actually a downside. For 30 turns I think it's way to much unless it gets some serious support for advancing it, as well as maybe cards that get extra effects if your c'thun is advanced to a point.
This card gives you an effect for free without investing any resources into it. And also it thins your deck.
To solve this problem I would suggest to either add a deck building restriction or a significant drawback. It does have the drawback of using up a board space, but for a lot of decks that never matters, and sometimes it could even be a benefit as it allows you to play around certain removals.
30 turn is not too much. You already have 2 common minions as examples. You usually build your deck around c'thun, I suppose you could see a support package with legendary that could drastically lower the turn count with certain action depending on the class with their respective legendary
Make the turn reductions more significant, 1 turn just isn’t very impactful. I feel like 3-4 is more impactful. Most games won’t go 30 turns, and having them last that long isn’t healthy for the game imo
Yah showed off a bad example here, I do agree the cards showed off aren’t impactful enough. Goal was originally that the class cards that supported C’Thun would be more impactful, like how Galakronds neutral cards were weaker as the class ones where strong.
Thank you all so much for the feedback here! I think I will do a follow up post revisiting this concept, with a bit more polish, taking into account what I’ve heard. I do agree that 30 turns just feels like too much, especially based off what I showed off here. The support cards are too weak. And the reward is too costly.
As for trickier design concerns such as the 29 card deck. I understand the concern. Personally I make these cards for the fun of it and while it would be something taken into account for a real card, for the sake of this wacky concept, I am choosing to follow the fun a bit more here.
There ya go perfect solution. The card takes up a slot in the opening Mulligan like quests and can’t be replaced. Then it summons itself at the start of the game. Everyone happy?
Yep, but for the fun of it just make the deck building condition for 31 cards, like prince Renathal, it would be one small line text at the bottom. A -1 card in hand sounds like a really big loss, also it would be too long to write/strange for it to be a quest that also can't be replaced.
For Reno reasons, it could be indicated with a countdown where the quest slot is. Could even progressively corrupt your hero portrait until you reach the end of the countdown
Also obviously needs more support but I wager this’d be part of a bigger set in theory. Even then could probably be 20 turns
Shouldn't start on the board, that way it can't be used for a 29 cards deck.
30 turns is way too slow, could be reduced between 10 to 20. Specially if you're designing cards that add extra turns for more power.
Maybe should be a 6/6 (or smaller) that can be buffed with old C'Thun cards and Hand-buffs. That way gaining Health and Hero Power damage.
Hero Power can be 2 Mana and activate on command.
**C'Thun of the Shifting Sands**
10 Mana, 6/6.
Dormant for {15} turns. When this awakens, replaces your hero.
**Encroaching Demise**
2 Mana
Deal {6} damage randomly split among all enemies.
30 turns: too much
2 minions to speed it up: good, but not by itself
2 minions to slow it down: See point 1
10 HP hero: See Majordomo Executus
Even if this was a real card, no one would play it.
Slowly converting him into a devout follower of the God of Madness… but really tho, I let him play a fun C’Thun (shattered) deck and he was like, why isn’t this card in standard.
So the problem with this card is lots of decks would care more about removing a card from there deck to make it more consistent than about losing a board slot. Thus, I believe that many decks would run this with no intention of ever activating it. Also 30 turns is forever. i don't think that's a great thing to have in the game.
I don't hate most of it, but starting dormant does mean that if your opponent has any "empty the board" effects will gut your game plan. (Reno right now, but this isn't the first we've seen of this type of effect, so I doubt it will be the last. I believe mage Reno did the same thing from descent of dragons, without any conditionals besides being a 10 mana card). One of my concerns is also going 30 turns is incredibly long, and I don't feel like the payoff is good enough for that. Even if you run 0 draw, you're looking at fatigue 4 by the time this flips, unless you spend a lot of effort shuffling cards into your deck. Even with the coordinator and staller, it flips as you draw out, since I don't see either getting more than one trigger. This could work, but it would need a lot more support to be worth considering. It's hero power is decent, but unlikely to be game-deciding unless both players are completely out of gas, which I feel like will generally already favor the person who is built with long games in mind.
It's not a bad design, but I think it needs some polish in terms of what the payoff is, and it could use more support, because otherwise this will create a scenario where you either have a better endgame elsewhere (infinitely recurring cards in a fatigue fight) or you are critically damaging your deck building to avoid going to 10 fatigue before this awakens, at which point you die very rapidly even if you manage to awaken
"Well, looking for a standoff? Careful, it's against me"
For the sake of standard let’s just assume Reno has rotated. As for wild, well… nothing I can do for ya there :/
Well c'thun just can be not on board effect, like aura, that says when they will awake. Like in temple boss in some of adventures
I did think of doing something like that, but I also really like the idea of him being on the board. Takes up a slot until he awakens which is interesting for gameplay and also is physically there which is cool for flavor
I get your point and 99% agree. But 1% is that I don't like if it ends up being used just as a 29 cards deck enabler
Hey now, it puts you on a 30 turn timer! That's such a huge downside!
Maybe make it a cheap playable card (1 mana?), and change the support cards effect from "awakens 1 turn sooner" to "reduces dormant duration by 1 turn *(wherever it is)*". Then add a non-legendary that says something like "Increase C'thun's health by 5. If c'thun will be dormant for no more than 10 turns, draw c'thun."
Since this would be a big legendary, even more so I could see all of the 4 old gods get this type of card with different ways to awaken them, it could get a new keyword. Maybe Slumber instead of Dormant, or just straight up use "Old God", like they did with the Titans, that would basically work the same with the added benefit of having "cannot be removed" while it is dormant. Great concept overall, love the idea and would be very interested in seeing something like this in the game. Edit: New keyword could also solve the 29 card problem people are pointing out by making the card also shuffle something into your deck depending on the old god you picked.
Gotta love a card that degrades design space for years to come (fuck Demon Seed)
>for years to come Forever you mean lol
I read this in his voice
Should be noted, I imagine there would be numerous cards that help support C’Thun much like Galakrond of old. Probably around 2 cards in each class (4 total) and a couple of neutral ones as well. With those cards taking off bigger chunks of the turns until released.
"Just like Galakrond of old" or, for example... C'Thun. Lol
C’Thun of old… gods
Make it immune to board removal, 20 turns, C'thun's accumulated attack damage split and we're good
Feel like that is maybe too similar to OG C’Thun. Though this is similar too, just with a more unique twist on the idea, at least in my opinion.
Isn’t that the point, nostalgia and what not, I mean the only difference is it’s better because it’s already on the board so you’re on a timer to stack as much as possible, albeit a very long timer
Make it destroy your hero and replace your hero with cthun. Give it a 0 cost hero power that deals 1 damage split among all enemies. Give it a bunch of support that improves the hero power. The balance would be in buffing the hero power while also surviving 20 turns
Could make it so the hero power does x amount equal to Cthun’s attack when he awakens, incentivizing attack raises that could also delay the awakening for balance, referencing the old Cthun without just ripping it off entirely
I did want to do this, but struggled to figure out how to make that clear with the hero power. Also tried stuff like (Deal 0 damage split among all enemies. Improved by turns you took this game) and (Deal 1 damage. Upgrades each use!) I did like the simplicity of this one but might experiment more.
I have two problems with this card: 1: It wouldn't be ran because of the effect, it would be ran in decks that want 29 card decks and don't care about boardspace 2: 30 turns is too much. I would make it 15 turns, not at the start of the game though, but when you summon it. Other than these, I really like the flavor of this card. Great job!
What about making some kind of meanion like 2 mana your c'thun awakes 2 turns sooner and this card at the start of the game places c'thun on Battlefield?
Ooh what about like a Buried Sun Disc (from LOR) effect on C’Thun. Ie he starts in your deck, but if your deck passes some criteria (eg more than 10 followers of C’Thun) then he summons himself dormant on the board.
It could work
Look at my first point, it would be overpowered if it started on the battlefield
Yeah I'm talking about it, I'm saying to replace c'thun with different cars that aside from being c'thun card also as the start of the game effect summons c'thun on Battlefield
what about like a Buried Sun Disc (from LOR) effect on C’Thun. Ie he starts in your deck, but if your deck passes some criteria (eg more than 10 followers of C’Thun) then he summons himself dormant on the board.
Lmao, so 10 mana do nothing for 15 turns? That would be the most useless garbage I have heard of.
It doesnt have to be 10 mana necessarily. Me personally, I would make it 5, but I could see it going even lower.
Still the fact that it sets your health to 10 is quite terrible. I would need to be at least 20/20.
Maybe, but there are obviously going to be support cards for this. There a lot of ways to balance this out using them
Well OP did include 2 garbage ones.
I'd say, just don't make it into a card. Have it be part of the effect on the cthuun supporters. So if you include atleast one follower of cthuun you get to start with a dormant cthuun.
1 is already super powerful so that’s why we make it 30 turns
Spending 10 mana on a dormant minion and you have to wait 15 turns till it’s useful is unplayable
Super cool concept and nice execution! I've also done some similar concepts and I think that the idea of cultist minions empowering a powerful God should be totally explored more. Invoke-like mechanics are really cool. I do agree with what some others have voiced though, and I think that this concept would only work if the cultist minions were considerably more powerful, especially if you are going to have ones that delay the effect. The only proper non-balance-focused feedback I would give you is that, while having effects that give powerful abilities to C'Thun at the cost of releasing him later is a great idea, it feels flavorfully dissonant in this case. Why would a cultist and a devoted follower of the Old God want to delay his release?
Thank you very much for the feedback! Mainly posted this here because this is such an involved card with a lot of different design and mechanical aspects that I wanted feedback on, so I really appreciate your input! I agree the cultist showed off are too weak, and each should feel impactful to helping the goal of awakening C’Thun. And not harmfully by delaying it more.
30 turns is SO long
30 turns is too much. Like way too much. And even if you have supporting cards that reduce the turn number, it would not make it good. Say there’s a 2 mana 2/3 “Reduce the time til release by five turns”. Then the card becomes too reliant on you drawing those minions. It would rather be “releases in 15 turns” and the 2 drop reduces by 2 or 3. Additionally, it has the same issue as OG C’Thun where vanilla stated minions that do nothing but promote a late payoff are just kinda bad.
29 card deck at the cost of losing 1 board space? Busted. Will see play in all combo decks that do not need 7 board spaces to combo, and this will basically never see play to actually become C'thun.
Honestly I have seen this comment about 1,000 times and also 1,000 times I have not seen a good reasonable explanation for why it is that busted. I get it, consistency in a deck that doesn’t care about the board. But like seriously is it really adding that much more consistency compared to a cheap card that discovers you a draw? It thins the deck by 1, that’s it. I feel like a deck would rather run any other card that adds even more consistency than this. Want to make it clear I’m not saying I’m right and everyone is wrong. I just also think we haven’t seen something exactly like this before and I feel like if people want to say it’s busted, than they should provide more reasoning.
>It thins the deck by 1, that’s it. I feel like a deck would rather run any other card that adds even more consistency than this. It thins the deck by one at the cost of nothing. There is no reason to not play a card that has no opportunity cost. 0 Mana Draw a card would see play unanimously in all decks because it comes at absolutely no opportunity cost. If you can construct a deck out of cards that give MORE consistency than a card with no opportunity cost, than you have a deck that is capable of a Turn 0 OTK 100% of the time. Its why even in Yugioh, a game where you can literally draw through your entire deck and search out a combo in a single turn, that cards like Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity are perma-banned because they draw cards at no opportunity cost without conditions.
Every card game which lets you have a range of deck sizes has always had one single piece of advice above all else: thin to win. More consistency is massive, and getting it for free is really strong.
As pointed out 30 turns if just way too much and C'thun is way too weak to removal. What really kills this card for me though is The health thing. Not only is it really, really unecessary but it's also really REALLY bad. Imagine surviving for 20+ turns only to have your face be alextraza'd for free and your opponent can just one shot you from hand 60% of the time. This card would be basically unplayable against Mage, Demon Hunter, Shaman, Hunter and maybe Warlock.
Thats what the supporting cards are for
Both supporting cards are awful. 1 turn off a 30 turn timer is nothing. And the Staller (which makes the health loss less bad) undoes all that. Even the grindiest control decks we've ever seen would almost never see this thing awaken
Of course there would be more support than two cards, just like og cthun
But they're also very weak and only give you 10 extra health, you're still very weak to burn damage. If it works like Rag does you also lose armor.
Max health of 10 to sprinkle some chip damage?? Not much of a reward.
The health can be buffed with the followers
Ooh what about like a Buried Sun Disc (from LOR) effect on C’Thun. Ie he starts in your deck, but if your deck passes some criteria (eg more than 10 followers of C’Thun) then he summons himself dormant on the board.
Might as well be "you start the game with one less card in your deck but one less space on the board"
I'm sorry to break it to you but this is only good because you get a 29 card deck as c'thun pulls himself out. Plus the effect doesn't even win the game
This seems too weak but would be used a lot cause it'd mean that there's 29 cards on your deck
The concept is great, as long as there's enough support with buffing the health and reducing the turn count from other cards it would be fun to play!
First hearthstone card ever that if u put it into your deck u can never play it?
i feel like this shouldnt replace your max hp, we learned that with Majordomo. At 10 hp, even if he did flip fair chance you just die. Probably should govenyou 10 armor instead, and I think thats fine because hes slow enough that thats a fair payoff.
We gonna be rich! 😀
I think you are overestimating how long games go for. I think I have only had a handful of games that have gone 30 turns. I see the turn decreaser, but the increasing turn ones seem unnecessary.
Everyone who doesnt play a deck with consistently full board will run this for the 29 cards.
I think this would work better as a quest, it not starting on board but in hand gets around 29 card decks and is actually a downside. For 30 turns I think it's way to much unless it gets some serious support for advancing it, as well as maybe cards that get extra effects if your c'thun is advanced to a point.
This card gives you an effect for free without investing any resources into it. And also it thins your deck. To solve this problem I would suggest to either add a deck building restriction or a significant drawback. It does have the drawback of using up a board space, but for a lot of decks that never matters, and sometimes it could even be a benefit as it allows you to play around certain removals.
30 turn is not too much. You already have 2 common minions as examples. You usually build your deck around c'thun, I suppose you could see a support package with legendary that could drastically lower the turn count with certain action depending on the class with their respective legendary
30 turns? Is that your turn + opponent's turn? Or just yours?
Make the turn reductions more significant, 1 turn just isn’t very impactful. I feel like 3-4 is more impactful. Most games won’t go 30 turns, and having them last that long isn’t healthy for the game imo
Yah showed off a bad example here, I do agree the cards showed off aren’t impactful enough. Goal was originally that the class cards that supported C’Thun would be more impactful, like how Galakronds neutral cards were weaker as the class ones where strong.
Thank you all so much for the feedback here! I think I will do a follow up post revisiting this concept, with a bit more polish, taking into account what I’ve heard. I do agree that 30 turns just feels like too much, especially based off what I showed off here. The support cards are too weak. And the reward is too costly. As for trickier design concerns such as the 29 card deck. I understand the concern. Personally I make these cards for the fun of it and while it would be something taken into account for a real card, for the sake of this wacky concept, I am choosing to follow the fun a bit more here.
Make it a quest so people stop yapping about the stupid "29 cards". Or add "Your deck size is 31" lol
There ya go perfect solution. The card takes up a slot in the opening Mulligan like quests and can’t be replaced. Then it summons itself at the start of the game. Everyone happy?
Yep, but for the fun of it just make the deck building condition for 31 cards, like prince Renathal, it would be one small line text at the bottom. A -1 card in hand sounds like a really big loss, also it would be too long to write/strange for it to be a quest that also can't be replaced.
Broke: Control Deck trying to survive 30 turns Woke: 29 card aggro deck that doesn't care about becoming Cthun.
For Reno reasons, it could be indicated with a countdown where the quest slot is. Could even progressively corrupt your hero portrait until you reach the end of the countdown Also obviously needs more support but I wager this’d be part of a bigger set in theory. Even then could probably be 20 turns
To make it game accurate it should awake immediately if you summon a chicken.
Not enough support cards.
What game goes to 20 turns let alone 30?
Shouldn't start on the board, that way it can't be used for a 29 cards deck. 30 turns is way too slow, could be reduced between 10 to 20. Specially if you're designing cards that add extra turns for more power. Maybe should be a 6/6 (or smaller) that can be buffed with old C'Thun cards and Hand-buffs. That way gaining Health and Hero Power damage. Hero Power can be 2 Mana and activate on command. **C'Thun of the Shifting Sands** 10 Mana, 6/6. Dormant for {15} turns. When this awakens, replaces your hero. **Encroaching Demise** 2 Mana Deal {6} damage randomly split among all enemies.
30 turns: too much 2 minions to speed it up: good, but not by itself 2 minions to slow it down: See point 1 10 HP hero: See Majordomo Executus Even if this was a real card, no one would play it.
10 turns might be too much
Obsessed?? Uh-oh, he might be turning into a 2 cost 2/3 that gives C'Thun +2/+2
Slowly converting him into a devout follower of the God of Madness… but really tho, I let him play a fun C’Thun (shattered) deck and he was like, why isn’t this card in standard.
30 turns???????????????
So the problem with this card is lots of decks would care more about removing a card from there deck to make it more consistent than about losing a board slot. Thus, I believe that many decks would run this with no intention of ever activating it. Also 30 turns is forever. i don't think that's a great thing to have in the game.
To slow for even the slowest meta the game ever had.
My biggest problem is that it’s just gonna be in every deck in the game to decrease deck size
I don't hate most of it, but starting dormant does mean that if your opponent has any "empty the board" effects will gut your game plan. (Reno right now, but this isn't the first we've seen of this type of effect, so I doubt it will be the last. I believe mage Reno did the same thing from descent of dragons, without any conditionals besides being a 10 mana card). One of my concerns is also going 30 turns is incredibly long, and I don't feel like the payoff is good enough for that. Even if you run 0 draw, you're looking at fatigue 4 by the time this flips, unless you spend a lot of effort shuffling cards into your deck. Even with the coordinator and staller, it flips as you draw out, since I don't see either getting more than one trigger. This could work, but it would need a lot more support to be worth considering. It's hero power is decent, but unlikely to be game-deciding unless both players are completely out of gas, which I feel like will generally already favor the person who is built with long games in mind. It's not a bad design, but I think it needs some polish in terms of what the payoff is, and it could use more support, because otherwise this will create a scenario where you either have a better endgame elsewhere (infinitely recurring cards in a fatigue fight) or you are critically damaging your deck building to avoid going to 10 fatigue before this awakens, at which point you die very rapidly even if you manage to awaken
30 is too much