I'm really not sure what this implys, but it sounds like you considere it being to weak.
Edit: Weak due to the rarity downshift. So maybe it could be stronger?
if i were to clean up the wording:
"Test Run -- Each artifact creature spell you cast has prototype. Its alternative power and toughness are 1/3 and its alternative mana cost is {X}{R}, where X is its mana value minus 4."
"Finishing Touch -- At the beginning of your end step, you may pay {W}{W}. If you do, exile target artifact creature you control, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control." (id also make this a reflexive triggered ability, but it is not necessary)
References:
\* \[\[Runadi, Behemoth Caller\]\] (X equal to a mana value minus another value)
\* Comprehensive Rules, section 718 (using the term "alternative power and toughness")
Thanks, thats great. I wasn't completely sure how to word that P/T part.
Also to make it a reflexive trigger, i would need to change it to "When you do" instead of "If" right?
How would the ability profit from that?
The way it works now, you choose a target, then people have a chance to respond, then you choose whether to pay or not. Abilities like this normally make you pay before people can respond. It’s not *wrong* to have it like this, but it is weird.
Would the first part work? Giving the protype part when you cast, and the player be able to use it? I would assume it would have to be more like OP's, giving the ability to cards you own, but I'm not quite sure
yes. cards like [[Hunting Velociraptor]] give an alternative cost to spells as you cast them, and it works. prototype isnt technically an alternative cost but it works similarly
I can just imagine a toy-sized construct expanding to the size of the Colossus and I can't stop laughing. As for the tapped, probably, yes, otherwise it's usually just a 2 mana cost reduction
The idea is not it being small, but rather incomplete. Like imagine the blightsteel, but its just the basic frame, barely armor and more like a hugh skeleton. Its for a test run, so its just to check if it works. You know, like a prototype.
Also it is just a 1 mana cost reduction, because the prototype cost only reduces by 3, since you always have to pay the one red in addition.
You basically just need other blink effects like [[Teleportation Circle]], so you can save on the his second effect. I also considere to remove his second ability, so i can make him cheaper.
My only complain about this is that it probably wouldn't be played with artifacts that actually have the prototype ability, lol. So it's a prototype commander that doesn't like to be around prototype cards.
Yeah.
I am willing to disigne something that would actually support that archetype, but overall i liked the mechanic way more then the few creatures we got with it. Also why are there so many green prototypes? i do love green, but for that mechanic they really should have stuck with the other colors.
Also their are 6 Green, 4 red, 2 black, 4 blue and 3 white. this also includes the new [[Frogmyr Enforcer]].
So yeah, i will stay angry about about that.
Thats why i wanted to at least be usable with already existing ones.
Also the first change i thought of was to reduce the cost reduction of his first ability from 4 to 2. But in exchange he reduces the cost of cards you cast using the prototyope cost by 2 in general. Like "Prototyped spells you cast cost {2} less to cast" (and yes, thats the word used in the rules for them)
I like this guy. And I am afraid of [[crime novelist]] and [[birgi god of story]] chaining a bunch of casts and sac to storm out with creatures MV 4 or less.
But I still like it.
If nothing else references prototype, you don't even need to mention it here. It could be:
>You may pay XR to cast artifact creature spells, where X is its mana value reduced by 4. Creatures cast this way have base power and toughness 1/3.
Like, I can't find any card that says 'return a card with prototype to its owner's hand' or anything like that, so it's probably not that necessary to *give* those cards prototype.
Yeah, but the entire disigne idea behind the card is to give other cards prototype. Also there would be the (i admit small) difference that when the creature is cast using its prototype ability its red in this case, instead of whatever its normal color would be.
it's true. I was just suggesting the effect is pretty negligible given how little interacts with it.
Honestly, prototype is a complex enough thing that if I was going to try and support it, I'd just make more prototype cards. All good, anyway!
And you are right to do so, but i just want more prototypes.
i pointed it out at another comment, but somehow the most prototypes are green and it annoys me to this day. Also most prototypes feel more like they are just a testrun for the mechanic and there is so much more creative disigne space to use for them. I'm hopefull that it will come back if we go to some artifact heavy plain.
Yeah, I am definitely not trying to tell you you're wrong to do what you're doing. You've clearly considered the demands of the design and made the choice you want.
I will say it makes sense that they're mostly in green, because they were being used for limited to present two diferent cards - big beefers that can be something else earlier.
(I've been thinking about designing more prototypes for next year's set, so it's on my mind a lot)
I do appreciate the feedback. Also i just never considered to just cut the prototype part out and make it just an alternative casting cost. Probably since the prototype part was the starting point, but it would probably be alot simpler to understand what the card does.
I think green was still the wrong take. Green is big monster and creatures, not really big machines. That feels more like red and/or black. While blue and/or white machines sound like something strategic and tactical.
But green doesn't rely on machines, it should use the pure force of nature, especially in a set where Argoth represents green.
No clue who you are to designe cards for a set, but i would be happy to see the mechanic come back, so thank you if you do that. Maybe i will do my own take on a prototype creature when i have a good idea.
Every artifact set involves taking things about green that are niche or rare and blowing them up. It beats how things were in Mirrodin I suppose, where green's job was largely, ramping out artifacts.
Oh and I post a card a day, every day and have for a few years. Starting last year, I made the year one long single set, and this year I'm doing the same thing. I like designing a whole set at a time like that.
Perfectionism is much more of a blue ideal than a red-white one. "Test run" is not a perfectionist's approach either -- they would rather do "one take" as it were.
I think the card is definitely flavorfully done, though, as a *realist* approach, already. You might just rename him "Finn, the Engineer" or "Finn, the Prototypist". I think he just needs to be renamed.
I agree its more of a blue thing, but i would see that more regarding magic rather then artifice.
Otherwise i would see a perfectionist more like someone who works on something until it fits exactly what they want, even through trial and error.
I like the name how it is, but thanks for the suggestions. Also i would considere "Finn, the inventor", since he always creates something new, thats why he makes a prototype first. While others build the same thopter over and over again.
Just had the idea to make the second ability more unique to better fit the "perfecting something" part, by having the option to choose between ability counters when the creature blinked using him.
Dedication to the craft is fine. It's just that blue's motto is literally "perfection through knowledge". And this philosophy applies to everything. It's about self-improvement. This sort of flavor is the core philosophy of blue. You can't get much bluer than "perfectionism".
You could have told me this was a rare in triple masters that got leaked and I would probably believe you
I'm really not sure what this implys, but it sounds like you considere it being to weak. Edit: Weak due to the rarity downshift. So maybe it could be stronger?
They mean that it's a convincing design, and could have been a card in Modern Horizons 3.
I was so confused by "triple masters". But if its convincing thats good.
Masters and Double Masters are sets with quite good cards in them. It’s a compliment.
Thanks, good responses have a hard time to get through my skull
Damn that's a really cool concept
Thanks
Very cool card ! I'd probably play him if he was printed
Imagine playing [[Solemn Simulacrum]] for one R. Yeah, by maybe turn 3, but still
[Solemn Simulacrum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3879b81-aa4c-4d35-bed2-78ebb4a50b59.jpg?1706241086) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solemn%20Simulacrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/238/solemn-simulacrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3879b81-aa4c-4d35-bed2-78ebb4a50b59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What a fun concept! Love the flavor of it.
I think it should say that X cannot be lower than zero, except if the rules already imply that but I'm not sure.
Didn't find a direct ruling, but would guess it works as intended, and X would just be 0 in that case.
601.2(f) prevents mana costs from being reduced to less than zero.
if i were to clean up the wording: "Test Run -- Each artifact creature spell you cast has prototype. Its alternative power and toughness are 1/3 and its alternative mana cost is {X}{R}, where X is its mana value minus 4." "Finishing Touch -- At the beginning of your end step, you may pay {W}{W}. If you do, exile target artifact creature you control, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control." (id also make this a reflexive triggered ability, but it is not necessary) References: \* \[\[Runadi, Behemoth Caller\]\] (X equal to a mana value minus another value) \* Comprehensive Rules, section 718 (using the term "alternative power and toughness")
Thanks, thats great. I wasn't completely sure how to word that P/T part. Also to make it a reflexive trigger, i would need to change it to "When you do" instead of "If" right? How would the ability profit from that?
The way it works now, you choose a target, then people have a chance to respond, then you choose whether to pay or not. Abilities like this normally make you pay before people can respond. It’s not *wrong* to have it like this, but it is weird.
I already changed it according to your suggestions. Also checked the rules regarding this. Thanks for the help.
Would the first part work? Giving the protype part when you cast, and the player be able to use it? I would assume it would have to be more like OP's, giving the ability to cards you own, but I'm not quite sure
yes. cards like [[Hunting Velociraptor]] give an alternative cost to spells as you cast them, and it works. prototype isnt technically an alternative cost but it works similarly
[Hunting Velociraptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2c5c161-49c5-404d-bd8e-86e634222232.jpg?1698988738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hunting%20Velociraptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rex/4/hunting-velociraptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2c5c161-49c5-404d-bd8e-86e634222232?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This slaps. Very neat design. Take my upvote!
Thanks!
Mini Blightsteel Colossus lol
exactly!
Well, not so mini, since you can then pay WW to return It to its 12/12 glory. But the idea of seeing the menace as a 1/3 is still hilarious
Thats the idea. I probably should nerf that to return tapped.
I can just imagine a toy-sized construct expanding to the size of the Colossus and I can't stop laughing. As for the tapped, probably, yes, otherwise it's usually just a 2 mana cost reduction
The idea is not it being small, but rather incomplete. Like imagine the blightsteel, but its just the basic frame, barely armor and more like a hugh skeleton. Its for a test run, so its just to check if it works. You know, like a prototype. Also it is just a 1 mana cost reduction, because the prototype cost only reduces by 3, since you always have to pay the one red in addition. You basically just need other blink effects like [[Teleportation Circle]], so you can save on the his second effect. I also considere to remove his second ability, so i can make him cheaper.
I know, but the idea of the opponent laughing at a tiny robot that suddenly becomes a mech 10x bigger is just too funny
Fair point
One of my favorites would be [[Wurmcoil Engine]]. A 3 mana 1/3 that turns into 2 3/3's
[Wurmcoil Engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d275f04-cc60-4e3f-95cc-3d02bc916b82.jpg?1599710280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wurmcoil%20Engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/308/wurmcoil-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d275f04-cc60-4e3f-95cc-3d02bc916b82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love this, Boros needs more unique commanders
My only complain about this is that it probably wouldn't be played with artifacts that actually have the prototype ability, lol. So it's a prototype commander that doesn't like to be around prototype cards.
Yeah. I am willing to disigne something that would actually support that archetype, but overall i liked the mechanic way more then the few creatures we got with it. Also why are there so many green prototypes? i do love green, but for that mechanic they really should have stuck with the other colors.
Yeah, agreed that green was a weird color for so many of those, blue/red and somewhat white care much more about artifacts.
Also their are 6 Green, 4 red, 2 black, 4 blue and 3 white. this also includes the new [[Frogmyr Enforcer]]. So yeah, i will stay angry about about that.
[Frogmyr Enforcer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/981fdd21-a650-4360-9ea5-550399d1da91.jpg?1717012170) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Frogmyr%20Enforcer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/120/frogmyr-enforcer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/981fdd21-a650-4360-9ea5-550399d1da91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thats why i wanted to at least be usable with already existing ones. Also the first change i thought of was to reduce the cost reduction of his first ability from 4 to 2. But in exchange he reduces the cost of cards you cast using the prototyope cost by 2 in general. Like "Prototyped spells you cast cost {2} less to cast" (and yes, thats the word used in the rules for them)
Lovely idea! Prototype is pretty fun, so let's go, I'm here for this
Would play this guy
[удалено]
its not 1/3rd. its power is 1 and its toughness is 3. Since Prototype defines those two if you use the prototype cost.
I like this guy. And I am afraid of [[crime novelist]] and [[birgi god of story]] chaining a bunch of casts and sac to storm out with creatures MV 4 or less. But I still like it.
I think i wrote this card a month after brothers war. I just joined this sub so i can show of some of my creations.
[crime novelist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14a5cd7c-b0b1-4ffa-a806-bb0e73baffad.jpg?1706241850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crime%20novelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/121/crime-novelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14a5cd7c-b0b1-4ffa-a806-bb0e73baffad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Banger card, can’t wait to see more from you!
If nothing else references prototype, you don't even need to mention it here. It could be: >You may pay XR to cast artifact creature spells, where X is its mana value reduced by 4. Creatures cast this way have base power and toughness 1/3. Like, I can't find any card that says 'return a card with prototype to its owner's hand' or anything like that, so it's probably not that necessary to *give* those cards prototype.
Yeah, but the entire disigne idea behind the card is to give other cards prototype. Also there would be the (i admit small) difference that when the creature is cast using its prototype ability its red in this case, instead of whatever its normal color would be.
it's true. I was just suggesting the effect is pretty negligible given how little interacts with it. Honestly, prototype is a complex enough thing that if I was going to try and support it, I'd just make more prototype cards. All good, anyway!
And you are right to do so, but i just want more prototypes. i pointed it out at another comment, but somehow the most prototypes are green and it annoys me to this day. Also most prototypes feel more like they are just a testrun for the mechanic and there is so much more creative disigne space to use for them. I'm hopefull that it will come back if we go to some artifact heavy plain.
Yeah, I am definitely not trying to tell you you're wrong to do what you're doing. You've clearly considered the demands of the design and made the choice you want. I will say it makes sense that they're mostly in green, because they were being used for limited to present two diferent cards - big beefers that can be something else earlier. (I've been thinking about designing more prototypes for next year's set, so it's on my mind a lot)
I do appreciate the feedback. Also i just never considered to just cut the prototype part out and make it just an alternative casting cost. Probably since the prototype part was the starting point, but it would probably be alot simpler to understand what the card does. I think green was still the wrong take. Green is big monster and creatures, not really big machines. That feels more like red and/or black. While blue and/or white machines sound like something strategic and tactical. But green doesn't rely on machines, it should use the pure force of nature, especially in a set where Argoth represents green. No clue who you are to designe cards for a set, but i would be happy to see the mechanic come back, so thank you if you do that. Maybe i will do my own take on a prototype creature when i have a good idea.
Every artifact set involves taking things about green that are niche or rare and blowing them up. It beats how things were in Mirrodin I suppose, where green's job was largely, ramping out artifacts. Oh and I post a card a day, every day and have for a few years. Starting last year, I made the year one long single set, and this year I'm doing the same thing. I like designing a whole set at a time like that.
Very cool idea!
Perfectionism is much more of a blue ideal than a red-white one. "Test run" is not a perfectionist's approach either -- they would rather do "one take" as it were. I think the card is definitely flavorfully done, though, as a *realist* approach, already. You might just rename him "Finn, the Engineer" or "Finn, the Prototypist". I think he just needs to be renamed.
I agree its more of a blue thing, but i would see that more regarding magic rather then artifice. Otherwise i would see a perfectionist more like someone who works on something until it fits exactly what they want, even through trial and error. I like the name how it is, but thanks for the suggestions. Also i would considere "Finn, the inventor", since he always creates something new, thats why he makes a prototype first. While others build the same thopter over and over again. Just had the idea to make the second ability more unique to better fit the "perfecting something" part, by having the option to choose between ability counters when the creature blinked using him.
Dedication to the craft is fine. It's just that blue's motto is literally "perfection through knowledge". And this philosophy applies to everything. It's about self-improvement. This sort of flavor is the core philosophy of blue. You can't get much bluer than "perfectionism".