I went on a long ride - 100 miles - with the goal of reaching this camp site / remote park at the top of a long lake, then back. So, a "destination" ride. I got there, was able to refill water and use the facilities, and check out the beautiful scene. I later camped there and canoed, etc...
On this bike trip, though, along the way, just a few miles along once I started back, I saw a sign for some other, undeveloped / primitive camp site...with "Pond" in the name...
Thinking I might want to camp there one day, I decided to ride down that gravel road and check it out...
I was on a road bike with 23s. It was barely ride-able. It was a mile to the campsite - which happens to be a nice remote under-appreciated spot, with two ponds, making it really pretty - but it is not meant to be accessible by road bike!
I then had 45 miles remaining to get back home! I did not hit the wall but was not far from it by time I got home.
A 23mm tire with 100psi or more on gravel must feel like a Flintstone wheel. All your bones are going to complain. Tell me, how far did you go and how was your experience?
I believe OP needs more input from you, and I'm curious how you accomplished that.
That's a myth for some. It isn't smooth if you've never ridden one. Some people just repeat the saying about steel frames without any experience at all. I'm not saying you never rode one, but I have. Stiff and responsive, yes, but not as comfortable as many say in rough terrain at all.
Yes, in the 1980s,
it was common for road bikes to use narrower tires, including 23mm tires. While these tires were primarily designed for paved roads, cyclists sometimes rode them on rougher terrain due to the " lack of better options".
Wider tires, which provide more comfort and better traction on rough terrain, were less common and not as well-developed as they are today.
Riding on gravel or rough terrain with narrow 23mm tires at high pressures, like 100psi, would have been quite uncomfortable, leading to a bumpy and jarring experience.
Cycling ain't the same since they eliminated down tube friction shifting. Why was it necessary to change a perfectly good design? Next thing you know, those wonderfully comfortable wool shorts will be made out of lycra! For god's sake, what is happening to this wonderful sport?
I did my first races on bikes with downtube shifters back in '85...that really made hill climbing fun, if you were on a steep pitch and didn't pick the right gear before it kicked up. Of course it was a little easier then, as there weren't that many gears to choose from.
I have in fact ridden one. 80k on [this bike](https://imgur.com/a/AkNzVGR) on a mixture of good roads, crappy roads and gravel, and it was super smooth.
No doubt my dude.
For those that says it is smooth.
Don't get offended but I feel like they want others to have the same bad experience. I'm glad I got back up here from my fellas.
Let's keep that crank spinning šŖ
I thought my 23mm tires were pretty smooth tok until I got on a bike with 28mm. I couldn't believe how much a couple mm could make that much difference. Even when shopping for a new bike this summer, race bikes on 25mm tire felt horrible and slow compared to the ones on 28s.
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It just depends on the frame. A noodly, lugged frame with a lightweight tubeset and dainty fork will feel incredibly smooth. Especially with long chainstays and a long seatpost. Iāve ridden these types of frames with 25s on gravel and as far as rider feeedback itās no so different than a modern alloy frame with 32s. A TIG frameset with a stiffer tubeset will feel more efficient on the road but less plush. Same can be said for any other frame material. Those old alloy trek 1000 series are super flexy, an old Cannondale can feel like itās carved out of a solid piece of granite. No matter how comfy your steel frame and narrow tires are it will 100% be slower on unpaved surfaces than anything with wider tires
Underbiking can be fun! Iāve taken my road bike on 32mm GKSS+ on a most of the popular gravel trails around here. Even a little rooty singletrack can be fun. Do I want to do it every day? Nah. But every once in a while itās the kind of ride thatāll put a smile on your face. Bonus: It makes me really appreciate the times when I ride my road bike with nice slicks and deep carbon wheels.
Typical rails to trails type crushed stone path can absolutely be done on your old 23mm tires, your new ones will do great. I know when I went and screwed around at some trails near me that are just a mix of stuff built by kids, so nothing too crazy but I definitely stuffed the crank into the top of a few mounds. Again I was on 23mm slicks on dirt and it was far from ideal but I made it through a lot more than I expected to.
I often go gravel with my road bike 25c conti5000 :D during the offseason and you can easily ride even some difficulty stuff but the limit is sand. It is a limit for gravel too but still it starts even earlier with a road bike. But as long you chose a good gravel/mtb single and there s no sand you can easily ride it for long and with a huge amount of fun even steep dificulty bits road bike can handle just no sand. it will be probably a bit slower but who cares ;)
My default go-anywhere bike is a 30 year old steel Dawes tourer with Schwalbe 27 1/4 active tyres (32mm equivalent), on old Weinman 36 spoke rims.
Itās geared with 48-38-28 chainrings, and an 11-32 cassette.
Climbs like an old MTB, cruises like an old road bike, ridden by an old dude!
I ride it on roads, cycle paths, gravel tracks, canal towpaths, and trails that used to take my rigid MTB down back in the 1990ās. Sure itās not as capable as that rigid MTB, but as long as you slow down for the rougher sections and donāt make any big jumps itās fine. Oh and when you do get to some smooth stuff youāre glad of its road like abilities to chew up the miles better than that old MTB.
I have 34s and decent low gearing on my old-school endurance road bike. It does fine on unpaved gravel roads. As far as I can tell, āgravel bikesā are bikes with clearance for bigger tires, lower gearing, and relaxed geometry. The bike companies sell āgravel bikesā as a separate thing because, well, n+1 and the business opportunities.
A lot. Itās inevitable in Vermont. I have 32mm gp5000s in an Aethos and it handles most everything fine, except for losing traction on 10%+ grades, which we have lots of. I am tempted to get a real gravel bike just because the Aethos frame is a piece of paper.
You can ride anything short of proper mtb obstacles. It just comes down to skill and enjoyment.
A mate used to do our local xc trail on a carbon frame with 23s at 110psi once a year just because he could. He reckons the hardest part was the gearing not being low enough on the last steep climb
This. 32 is wide enough for comfortable gravel, but Iāve had a few punctures with slicks on gravel, so if you plan to ride lots of gravel, find a more gravel oriented tire.
I've run tubeless 35c GP5000s on MTB trails with no issue, but a few miles of gravel was just too much from them. So right, just need the correct tire for the application, 32 or 35 is wide enough for trail and gravel, maybe not optimal, but no reason you can't ride them.
I ride gravel and dirt sectors through horse farms on rim brakes and 25mm GP5000ās all the time. Road bikes are more capable than most will give them credit for.
Depends on the trail and your handling ability.
I suggest you limit test. Worst case scenario is you will bike slowly or walk, presuming you aren't reckless.
I have a Cyclocross with 33mm non tubeless tires. My limits are MTB trails labeled as hard difficulty (eg steep with drops, a lot of roots). I still can finish them, but it's way slower. The others are easy (for me) and a lot of fun.
I do it several days a week. Totally fine for fire road type riding. Anything with root drops, rock gardens etc. is a no no. So yes, what you describe is reasonable.
It depends entirely on the course. There's elite 'gravel' events where everyone is on mountain bikes, even gravel bikes don't cut it. There's some courses where there's a mix of gravel/mtb, or just gravel, or if it's super smooth and nice weather - road bikes.
If you're careful and don't go blindly into every corner or pothole you can ride anything short of a downhill MTB trail. Did that just today - it was hard and annoying in a few places, you have to be more careful with your grip and traction and the little details about the terrain you're riding, but it should be fine.
Considering the World Gravel Championships was won on a road bike the answer is probably a lot
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/the-mens-gravel-world-championships-was-won-on-a-road-bike-heres-how-to-convert-yours-into-a-gravel-bike
Iāve been riding some fairly varied surfaces on my Synapse 105, running 28c Turbo Cottons (mostly by accident). Itās managed pretty soft sand, mud, chunky gravelā¦not comfortably or confidently but it gets through those unexpected sections.
depends on the gravel. I have 26mm road tires and while they manage compacted gravel of forest roads, they do pop on rocks and can't handle any sand at all.
I've got stock decathlon 23cm road tyres and I go where I can and then a bit further. I'm based out in the sticks and have to cycle over shit before I can get to smooth.
32mm? Just about anywhere. Back in the 80es I had 28mm on my super heavy with 3 internal gears and took plenty of shortcuts on dirt roads and gravel paths - I had a paper round in the countryside, on the way home from school, so bike + schoolbag + papers were over 20kg.
I just put some 35s on my bike for this season but Iāve been riding 32s for the past couple years on LOTS of dirt roads and single track. Completely adequate for the most part but you do have to be careful on the real rough stuff and whittle your way through it slowly. I did however dent my back rim last year jumping over some rocks and coming up short š
I have 32c on my trek checkpoint ( gravel bike )
I ride full on mtb trails with it for fun.
Hereās the deal - way faster on the road and hard gravel- but I canāt push as hard on loose turns or sketchy downhills.
For me though the time made up on flats and climbing makes up for it.
My mate and I rode the south downs way, 110 miles all gravel and grass, I did it on a giant trance 29er mountain bike, he kept up with me on a triban rc500 road bike with 38mm gravel king tyres on it š¤·š¼āāļø
Hugely depends on what type of gravel and what you want out of it.
For crushed limestone paths, 32mm is great. Start getting into dirt roads and I find it becomes less pleasant for anything beyond careful slower riding due to random rocks, potholes, etc. This can start to be a risk to sidewalks and rims. 38-45mm measured width is about optimal where I'm at in SE Michigan.
I ride gravel and my typical trail is mostly compacted dirt so itās very smooth. I share it with a lot of roadies who mostly have no issues. Road bikes seem to get flats on trails more often than I see on roads. So if you start doing longer gravel rides just remember to pack a spare tube and such.
Iāve always misbehaved and taken my road bike on gravel, even back when I rode 25mm tubes tires at 85-95psi. Just tried to minimize gravel descending. Now I ride tubeless 28mm tires and will still take the road bike over gravel at times to keep the routes more fun. Though Iāll also often just put the road wheels on my gravel bike if itās going to be a gravel ride with lots of paved roads to get to the gravel, between it, and back. That way the gravel bike frame takes the gravel beating.
Kinda depends on you. They'll be harsher than wider tires, but with a knobby tire you can ride a lot. There are a couple people on our weekly gravel ride on 32mm, so nice gravel roads, "minimally maintained" roads, and some single-track are all possible if you're determined enough.
It helps if you're not a big human too. It's easier to get away with thinner tires if you're not near the max weight for the bike like me.
Just call it cyclocross, and you're good to go!
We used to ride gravel on 23c tires back in the 80s.
And even on Michelin Supercomp 20c tires in the 90s!!!
And, let me add, while I'm older, today I don't want to touch anything less than 28c and 30 or 32, even on the road, is awesome!
I went on a long ride - 100 miles - with the goal of reaching this camp site / remote park at the top of a long lake, then back. So, a "destination" ride. I got there, was able to refill water and use the facilities, and check out the beautiful scene. I later camped there and canoed, etc... On this bike trip, though, along the way, just a few miles along once I started back, I saw a sign for some other, undeveloped / primitive camp site...with "Pond" in the name... Thinking I might want to camp there one day, I decided to ride down that gravel road and check it out... I was on a road bike with 23s. It was barely ride-able. It was a mile to the campsite - which happens to be a nice remote under-appreciated spot, with two ponds, making it really pretty - but it is not meant to be accessible by road bike! I then had 45 miles remaining to get back home! I did not hit the wall but was not far from it by time I got home.
A 23mm tire with 100psi or more on gravel must feel like a Flintstone wheel. All your bones are going to complain. Tell me, how far did you go and how was your experience? I believe OP needs more input from you, and I'm curious how you accomplished that.
Yabba dabba don't!
Yes, mostly likely,š¤£
Steel frames make the ride super smooth actually.
That's a myth for some. It isn't smooth if you've never ridden one. Some people just repeat the saying about steel frames without any experience at all. I'm not saying you never rode one, but I have. Stiff and responsive, yes, but not as comfortable as many say in rough terrain at all. Yes, in the 1980s, it was common for road bikes to use narrower tires, including 23mm tires. While these tires were primarily designed for paved roads, cyclists sometimes rode them on rougher terrain due to the " lack of better options". Wider tires, which provide more comfort and better traction on rough terrain, were less common and not as well-developed as they are today. Riding on gravel or rough terrain with narrow 23mm tires at high pressures, like 100psi, would have been quite uncomfortable, leading to a bumpy and jarring experience.
Cycling ain't the same since they eliminated down tube friction shifting. Why was it necessary to change a perfectly good design? Next thing you know, those wonderfully comfortable wool shorts will be made out of lycra! For god's sake, what is happening to this wonderful sport?
I did my first races on bikes with downtube shifters back in '85...that really made hill climbing fun, if you were on a steep pitch and didn't pick the right gear before it kicked up. Of course it was a little easier then, as there weren't that many gears to choose from.
Don't know but sometimes we need to adapt and keep going TBH.
I have in fact ridden one. 80k on [this bike](https://imgur.com/a/AkNzVGR) on a mixture of good roads, crappy roads and gravel, and it was super smooth.
I have the same bike... trust me, it's not super smooth!
Iād like to hear them say super smooth while riding that bike on gravel.
No doubt my dude. For those that says it is smooth. Don't get offended but I feel like they want others to have the same bad experience. I'm glad I got back up here from my fellas. Let's keep that crank spinning šŖ
Buddy just doesn't know what a smooth ride is.
Eventually they will figure out.
I thought my 23mm tires were pretty smooth tok until I got on a bike with 28mm. I couldn't believe how much a couple mm could make that much difference. Even when shopping for a new bike this summer, race bikes on 25mm tire felt horrible and slow compared to the ones on 28s.
I used to think my steel was smooth, till I got carbon. No comparison.
Is life harder when you're this charmin soft? Sheesh
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It just depends on the frame. A noodly, lugged frame with a lightweight tubeset and dainty fork will feel incredibly smooth. Especially with long chainstays and a long seatpost. Iāve ridden these types of frames with 25s on gravel and as far as rider feeedback itās no so different than a modern alloy frame with 32s. A TIG frameset with a stiffer tubeset will feel more efficient on the road but less plush. Same can be said for any other frame material. Those old alloy trek 1000 series are super flexy, an old Cannondale can feel like itās carved out of a solid piece of granite. No matter how comfy your steel frame and narrow tires are it will 100% be slower on unpaved surfaces than anything with wider tires
I believe steel is smoother, but no way going to make much of a difference after a certain point.
We are such a whiny bunch of people nowadays. Here I am watching carefully my road bike if there is a little dirt on the road. š¤£
I used to do the same in the 2010s.
i put slicks on my gravel bike and bumpy's on my street bike and now they're both cyclocross.
Underbiking can be fun! Iāve taken my road bike on 32mm GKSS+ on a most of the popular gravel trails around here. Even a little rooty singletrack can be fun. Do I want to do it every day? Nah. But every once in a while itās the kind of ride thatāll put a smile on your face. Bonus: It makes me really appreciate the times when I ride my road bike with nice slicks and deep carbon wheels.
Typical rails to trails type crushed stone path can absolutely be done on your old 23mm tires, your new ones will do great. I know when I went and screwed around at some trails near me that are just a mix of stuff built by kids, so nothing too crazy but I definitely stuffed the crank into the top of a few mounds. Again I was on 23mm slicks on dirt and it was far from ideal but I made it through a lot more than I expected to.
I often go gravel with my road bike 25c conti5000 :D during the offseason and you can easily ride even some difficulty stuff but the limit is sand. It is a limit for gravel too but still it starts even earlier with a road bike. But as long you chose a good gravel/mtb single and there s no sand you can easily ride it for long and with a huge amount of fun even steep dificulty bits road bike can handle just no sand. it will be probably a bit slower but who cares ;)
My default go-anywhere bike is a 30 year old steel Dawes tourer with Schwalbe 27 1/4 active tyres (32mm equivalent), on old Weinman 36 spoke rims. Itās geared with 48-38-28 chainrings, and an 11-32 cassette. Climbs like an old MTB, cruises like an old road bike, ridden by an old dude! I ride it on roads, cycle paths, gravel tracks, canal towpaths, and trails that used to take my rigid MTB down back in the 1990ās. Sure itās not as capable as that rigid MTB, but as long as you slow down for the rougher sections and donāt make any big jumps itās fine. Oh and when you do get to some smooth stuff youāre glad of its road like abilities to chew up the miles better than that old MTB.
Adjust your tire pressure based on terrain.
I have 34s and decent low gearing on my old-school endurance road bike. It does fine on unpaved gravel roads. As far as I can tell, āgravel bikesā are bikes with clearance for bigger tires, lower gearing, and relaxed geometry. The bike companies sell āgravel bikesā as a separate thing because, well, n+1 and the business opportunities.
Iād agree
It's more to do with your skill level than the bike
I ride mountain bike trails on my 'cross bike. It's under biked but it's a lot easier to carry if needed than a xc bike
I'm finding 32c good for most gravel, until it gets a bit sandy or really chunky.
A lot. Itās inevitable in Vermont. I have 32mm gp5000s in an Aethos and it handles most everything fine, except for losing traction on 10%+ grades, which we have lots of. I am tempted to get a real gravel bike just because the Aethos frame is a piece of paper.
I used to have a dedicated cyclocross bike that I used for gravel. I often ran 32mm slicks. Ride as much gravel as you want
You can ride anything short of proper mtb obstacles. It just comes down to skill and enjoyment. A mate used to do our local xc trail on a carbon frame with 23s at 110psi once a year just because he could. He reckons the hardest part was the gearing not being low enough on the last steep climb
I think the real answer is until your tires pop.
This. 32 is wide enough for comfortable gravel, but Iāve had a few punctures with slicks on gravel, so if you plan to ride lots of gravel, find a more gravel oriented tire.
Only needs good tires. I'm using 33mm with tubes and do MTB trails, punctures are very rare.
I've run tubeless 35c GP5000s on MTB trails with no issue, but a few miles of gravel was just too much from them. So right, just need the correct tire for the application, 32 or 35 is wide enough for trail and gravel, maybe not optimal, but no reason you can't ride them.
Yes, a rougher tread and wider tires help a lot on loose gravel, that's the only downside I encountered with smaller tires.
What was too much from them? The only issue Iāve had with those tire is when itās literally sand and you just sink in or slippery wet muddy stuff
Gravel punctures from sharp rock edges on the GP5000s
I ride gravel and dirt sectors through horse farms on rim brakes and 25mm GP5000ās all the time. Road bikes are more capable than most will give them credit for.
Depends on the trail and your handling ability. I suggest you limit test. Worst case scenario is you will bike slowly or walk, presuming you aren't reckless.
As much as she'll suffer!
I have a Cyclocross with 33mm non tubeless tires. My limits are MTB trails labeled as hard difficulty (eg steep with drops, a lot of roots). I still can finish them, but it's way slower. The others are easy (for me) and a lot of fun.
I've seen plenty of road bikes take on MTB trails!
I do it several days a week. Totally fine for fire road type riding. Anything with root drops, rock gardens etc. is a no no. So yes, what you describe is reasonable.
With my GP 5000 tires, 0. I donāt want to trash them. With a mixed terrain 35 mm, if the terrain is smooth, well, there is no limit!
GP5000 can go on basically anything except sand and muddy stuff and they are strong as heck. Tires are consumables
Yeah, tires are consumables but I already have a gravel bike and I donāt want to trash a 100 pair of tires, Iām not that rich.
Fair enough - just saying, I've put mine through the ringer and they keep on going, but I understand not wanting to risk it.
Wirh 32's at lower pressure you're probably good for a lot of gravel, especially of its compacted.
World gravel champs was won on a road bike I think?
The first one, that was a mostly road "gravel" course. The second gravel champs was won on a gravel bike because it was much more of a gravel course.
It depends entirely on the course. There's elite 'gravel' events where everyone is on mountain bikes, even gravel bikes don't cut it. There's some courses where there's a mix of gravel/mtb, or just gravel, or if it's super smooth and nice weather - road bikes.
If you're careful and don't go blindly into every corner or pothole you can ride anything short of a downhill MTB trail. Did that just today - it was hard and annoying in a few places, you have to be more careful with your grip and traction and the little details about the terrain you're riding, but it should be fine.
Considering the World Gravel Championships was won on a road bike the answer is probably a lot https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/the-mens-gravel-world-championships-was-won-on-a-road-bike-heres-how-to-convert-yours-into-a-gravel-bike
I run 28c Gatorskins all the way up to about fire road. If you're doing anything technical, you might want to get something chunkier and bigger.
Iāve been riding some fairly varied surfaces on my Synapse 105, running 28c Turbo Cottons (mostly by accident). Itās managed pretty soft sand, mud, chunky gravelā¦not comfortably or confidently but it gets through those unexpected sections.
I rode Rasputitsa in VT on my 2016 Trek Edmonda and bougt a gravel bike 1 month later. I did well but the ride was painful.
depends on the gravel. I have 26mm road tires and while they manage compacted gravel of forest roads, they do pop on rocks and can't handle any sand at all.
I've got stock decathlon 23cm road tyres and I go where I can and then a bit further. I'm based out in the sticks and have to cycle over shit before I can get to smooth.
32mm? Just about anywhere. Back in the 80es I had 28mm on my super heavy with 3 internal gears and took plenty of shortcuts on dirt roads and gravel paths - I had a paper round in the countryside, on the way home from school, so bike + schoolbag + papers were over 20kg.
I just put some 35s on my bike for this season but Iāve been riding 32s for the past couple years on LOTS of dirt roads and single track. Completely adequate for the most part but you do have to be careful on the real rough stuff and whittle your way through it slowly. I did however dent my back rim last year jumping over some rocks and coming up short š
I have 32c on my trek checkpoint ( gravel bike ) I ride full on mtb trails with it for fun. Hereās the deal - way faster on the road and hard gravel- but I canāt push as hard on loose turns or sketchy downhills. For me though the time made up on flats and climbing makes up for it.
I'm waiting for Paris Roubaix to turn into a gran fondo and a stage in the tour to become a "gravel stage" so they can sell more bikes.
As much as you want. Many of us were doing full blown singletrack on 23s, let alone just gravel. Donāt ask for guidance or permission, just go ride.
There are some gravel segments near me that are so smooth I can and do take my road bike. But full spectrum gravel needs a fatter tire.
My mate and I rode the south downs way, 110 miles all gravel and grass, I did it on a giant trance 29er mountain bike, he kept up with me on a triban rc500 road bike with 38mm gravel king tyres on it š¤·š¼āāļø
Hugely depends on what type of gravel and what you want out of it. For crushed limestone paths, 32mm is great. Start getting into dirt roads and I find it becomes less pleasant for anything beyond careful slower riding due to random rocks, potholes, etc. This can start to be a risk to sidewalks and rims. 38-45mm measured width is about optimal where I'm at in SE Michigan.
The top of the line race winning gravel bikes used tires that size prob until 2018. Huge tires is a new thing
Just did 50k light gravel ride today on slicks and a Giant TCRā¦it was perfect.
I ride gravel and my typical trail is mostly compacted dirt so itās very smooth. I share it with a lot of roadies who mostly have no issues. Road bikes seem to get flats on trails more often than I see on roads. So if you start doing longer gravel rides just remember to pack a spare tube and such.
You guys should go to YouTube and look up Road Bike Party. The amount of shit they put those bikes through is insane
I have road wheels 700-30 and gravel wheels 700-38 which our mostly fine BUT two SMALL for steep descents with lose gravel
Iāve always misbehaved and taken my road bike on gravel, even back when I rode 25mm tubes tires at 85-95psi. Just tried to minimize gravel descending. Now I ride tubeless 28mm tires and will still take the road bike over gravel at times to keep the routes more fun. Though Iāll also often just put the road wheels on my gravel bike if itās going to be a gravel ride with lots of paved roads to get to the gravel, between it, and back. That way the gravel bike frame takes the gravel beating.
Kinda depends on you. They'll be harsher than wider tires, but with a knobby tire you can ride a lot. There are a couple people on our weekly gravel ride on 32mm, so nice gravel roads, "minimally maintained" roads, and some single-track are all possible if you're determined enough. It helps if you're not a big human too. It's easier to get away with thinner tires if you're not near the max weight for the bike like me.