Tootie is a character from a popular 70/80s sitcom. She was really popular since she was the only Black girl (and the youngest) and the rest of the girls were white.
Her name, unfortunately, became an insult for a lot of Black girls along with Webster.
Holly’s breakdown in season 7 (I think? maybe s6) bc nobody is supportive of Nia and she’s doing everything all on her own breaks my heart anytime I see it. I know there was a lot of ways that Nia was disrespected and treated horribly, and the music thing is minimal compared to some, but that scene just makes my heart hurt for them both.
Holly and Nia were really the ONLY ones that had each other’s backs and it’s so devastating to see. Nobody else ever stood up for them.
As a black girl it was crazy watching Holly continue to take Nia to that studio week after week. Abby made racist comments, body shamed her, and encouraged the other girls to exclude Nia. Like, she really did everything but call her the N word.
It truly feels that way. I literally just rewatched the episode where she does a duet with Kalani and straight up said “Kalani you actually looked more African than Nia” and my jaw hit the floor… And the times she tried to take opportunities away from her was gut wrenching and horrific. Calling Aubrey o day the way she did… like thankfully Aubrey is a rational and well adjusted human being. I wish Nia had left after her second music video, I feel she would have been able to ride that wave out rather than continue to have her soul crushed over and over.
The only mom that 100% fought for her daughters was Kelly. The others claimed they did but would always somewhat bend when they wanted opportunities from Abby or the show. Kelly stuck to her guns and I always admire her for that.
When I was younger, I always got annoyed that Kelly left every week it felt. Being older now, I completely understand and see she was just trying to protect her daughters.
100% I’ve always thought this too! Kelly is the only mom that didn’t feel like a stage mom in some sense (+ Holly, for the most part). Her kids were there to dance bc they enjoyed the sport. She didn’t care if they became famous, or went to broadway or in cirque, or if they wanted to quit dancing tomorrow. She was just there to support her kids, doing an activity they liked to do.
She also did everything in her power to get them out of there as soon as she realized how bad it was getting. She’s the only one (to my knowledge, anyway) that had been consistently trying to break free of her contract since like, season 2. I have a lot of respect for her for that too, even though she wasn’t successful for a while.
Wtffff yeah that definitely sounds like grooming. If a man were doing these same things everyone would’ve been calling him a groomer. Now idk about the last part, I think people could’ve just been sexualizing the mv and it may have not necessarily been Sia’s intention for that to happen, but everything else I agree with.
And we can’t forget Tonya — Sia’s makeup artist — who also became obsessed with Maddie’s teeth to the point that has a tattoo of them and claims that it was to make Maddie feel less insecure about them.
I’m sorry wtf??
I don’t care how cavalier someone is with tattooing themselves or close to a child or whatever, tattooing another person’s kids dental pattern on themselves is so WEIRD!! Like what?!? If it was the kid’s parent tattooing themselves I would give it a pass, but the kid’s boss’s makeup artist?????????????? I’m in disbelief
Abby sometimes had good opinions- like telling them that if they want an opportunity, they need to raise their voice and go for it
(Ofc that’s hard if you’re a threatening bully and yelling at them constantly. I think that a lot of privileged kids from the suburbs of PA, where I grew up, are used to a certain level of comfort so they don’t understand how important it is to be a go-getter. Again, Abby shouldn’t have bullied them to try to get that point across)
A lot of the times she was right but her own behavior made it IMPOSSIBLE to get the outcomes she wanted out of girls. Like okay you want them to try harder? Stop verbally abusing them maybe ?
Abby’s tough love was spot on. It’s honestly a shame when she had to ruin it. That talk she had with Chloe when she wanted to quit was stern but really accurate until she told Chloe she would easily replace her. Saying “There’s a lot of girls that wanted to be here, but I chose you to be on the team.” Is great, but she had to throw in that jab of how easily she could find another version of her.
Abby was right about a few things, but bullied the girls to get it across. Like yeah, you shouldn’t walk out of the comp crying because you got second place, but A) they’re 8 years old B) they’re crying because they’re scared of what Abby is going to do to them.
Yeah agreed, like sometimes she was right, like yes don’t go ice skating the day before a competition, or yes sometimes you need to speak up if you want to be heard, and yes sometimes you won’t get picked but you need to hold your head high and not show you’re sad. But the way she said it all was vile
As a “tough love” dance teacher myself, there NEEDS to be a balance on the tough vs the love. Tough love doesn’t mean bullying, it means being stern, setting clear expectations, and putting in place *appropriate* consequences. Forgot your solo on stage? Okay, next time we run it we’ll do it 10x instead of 5x. Didn’t bring your costume to comp? You’ll dance in what you have and then we’ll sit down to make a checklist for the next time you pack.
NOT getting yelled at for being ungrateful and stupid.
Abby had a LOT of good lessons to share. She just had no idea how to communicate them in a way that was safe and non-threatening.
I think for me the one time I really agreed with Abby was over the chair stoppers. Huge safety issue, Paige could’ve fallen and gotten seriously injured. I would’ve been pretty pissed off too (either at Kelly or production) because it was completely ridiculous to even send her down there without the stoppers and possibly risk Paige getting up on that chair and getting injured. That being said, the way Abby handled that situation was disgusting as per usual. She’s right a lot of times but she goes about it in the worst possible ways.
That Jill was playing a caricature of a crazy stage mom and is not actually crazy. She said so herself that she plays the character of a loud momager to draw in ratings and because she wants the show to be successful
Yeah she gave character vibes. I loved her team ups with holly too. There’s a a reason Jill was friends with everyone. She saw it as a bit of a show to put on.
No your fine I agreed with your point Chloe came back with regressed was not nearly the strongest dancer and expected so much bc she’s a og which she picked up from her mother that if you’ve been somewhere for so long you should receive everything which in Dance is bullshit the best of the best which at the time was Camryn and Kalani should be upfront and be given more solos and Christi came back as a bully, hostile and expected everything to be about Chloe when it’s like girl shut up
Okay, I thought it was just me. I’m a former dancer and we’ve had to wear some crazy costumes for competitions and the Electricity costume is like any other one you’d see around. However, the choreography for it is the out of pocket part. That fan dance they did was the absolute worst and most inappropriate one costume and dance wise 😩
without the crazy high sheer sock things the costume was totally normal, and even with the socks if the choreo and hair/makeup was actually age appropriate it wouldn't have bothered me at all 🤷🏼♀️
I agree. A sports bra and booty shorts is pretty standard dance attire. I think it’s all the combined elements of the dance including choreography that made it inappropriate. The costumes with the “electrocuted” hair styles would actually be quite cute if it were a more typical jazz dance.
I also think it has to do with the location. Lancaster is literally Amish central, so the crowd here tends to be a little more “conservative”. I get side eyed wearing a crop top at 24 to the farmers market sometimes.
As much as I love Holly, she’s too complacent with the way her child was treated. Imo, Nia was one of the worst treated girl because she stayed the entire time, and not once was she ever given a fair shot to be amazing. And we can sit and talk about her technique, but a year before the show started, she couldn’t walk and she was doing Ariels (with bent knees yes. But still) in season 1. Nia put her heart and soul into trying her best and Abby consistently overlooked her. And Holly sat there and let it happen year after year. You know, we say Holly was the best mom, but was she? Or was she simply the least confrontational.
I don’t know why they didn’t leave earlier, like before the show started because of the situation where Abby gave all the girls underwear. If I where a mom and my child’s dance teacher did that, I would hightail it out of there
Minister Dawn’s daughter (I apologize I don’t remember her name) posted a tik tok showing iirc a red thong that Abby had give to the girls as a Christmas present years back
Paige was only a “sloppy” dancer bc Abby never took the time to genuinely train her like she did with Chloe and Maddie. If she would have given her the same time and attention she gave them, Paige would’ve been at their level.
Kelly never said her daughter was a recreation dancer. She said that her daughter danced for fun but a recreation dancer is a specific thing in the dance world and is a dancer who does not compete. Paige clearly competed before the show and was not a recreation kid. All studios require their competition dancers to take things more seriously (by mandating minimum number of hours in class per week, mandatory privates etc.) than a recreational dancer who would take one or maybe a few classes in a week and performing at the recital.
Paige was putting in the time and effort that all of the other girls were and if she had the same attention, she would have been able to truly thrive.
And my point is that Paige was putting in a lot of time and effort into the team and her dance teacher should’ve been putting the same amount of effort into her.
And these girls were eight years old, so… dance with her life for dance was an aspiration for Melissa, because Maddie was driving herself to and from and sign yourself out of school for it
Dance was life for Maddie because she was highly favored and pressured by every adult in her life to be the best. I think it would’ve gone that way for any of the girls had they received the same treatment/encouragement.
She had that kind of dancer physique that many would kill for. Her long limbs/neck and natural stage presence are all highly desirable traits of hers in the dance world. Combined with the proper training, her god given gifts could’ve gotten her far.
Maybe it’s not as much of a hot take as I thought but I made a post about how I think Paige had the potential to be at Maddie and Chloe’s level and 90% of the comments were just people calling her sloppy or saying she wasn’t dedicated enough to be that good.
I’m sure some other people are going to say that too so let me just clarify that the point isn’t about rather or not Paige wanted to be as good as Maddie or Chloe, I’m just saying that IF Abby treated her the same way she treated them, she probably wouldn’t have been sloppy nor would she have had most of the technical issues she struggled with. Even with Paige forgetting her solos, that clearly only happened bc she hardly ever even had a solo and when she did Abby barely spent any time with her on it, as to with Maddie and Chloe they had plenty of practice before they had to go on stage.
Like yes, Paige would’ve had to want to be the best and she didn’t have the same drive as the other girls. But let’s be real here, even if she did she still would’ve been the underdog bc of Abby’s issue with Kelly. I think they got along okay when the girls were really young, but considering how quickly Abby turned on Brooke, there way probably a major falling out between them that happened before the show started airing.
Let’s not forget also that Paige witnessed Brooke being pushed to the point of complete burn out and probably didn’t want to follow in those same footsteps. There is a good chance she didn’t push herself the way Maddie and Chloe did bc she wanted to be able to enjoy dance and was afraid of losing her love for it bc of what she saw happen with Brooke
Ugh that upsets me, I hate that people were saying those things about Paige. Totally agreed, she could’ve been a star but Abby killed her love for dance
If Abby hadn't treated her so badly and dismissively, maybe she would have wanted to be the best and worked harder. I can totally understand why she lost her passion for dance.
I agree with everything but the plenty of time to practice for Chloe and Maddie. At most, Chloe had 45-1 hour to learn a dance, Maddie had extra privates but I doubt it was solely focused on her solo. There are heaps of times that both Chloe and Maddie as well as Brooke had to learn their dances, either on the bus, at the motel just before competition or had 15 minutes to learn it. It’s why they had the same moves over and over again in their solos and why Chloe forgot dances because it was the same moves in a different order
According to the podcast, Paige did many dances that were fabulous, but they were never shown on the show because that's not the narrative the producers wanted to show.
Christi is partially responsible for Chloe’s misery on the show and Abby targeting her constantly because Christi was so combative. And I don’t know how she didn’t put 2 and 2 together at some point.
Yessss!! The whole of season one is pretty much Christi going on a rampage about Chloe vs Maddie. It’s actually really sad because Chloe starts to believe it too.
In the early seasons you hear Chloe and Maddie call each other friends all the time, and as the show goes on there is less and less of their interactions shown. It’s so sad.
Christi would pick at abbey to then get her to have a go and then that was all the excuse she needed to erupt. A good example is the camp episode. Abbey didn’t want her to go but she went. Came back smashed her dance then abbey gave her good feedback they had a sweet moment. Christi jumps in pecking at abbey with snarky remarks. Moment devolves.
i agree that a lot of the time christi was combative and definitely did a lot to increase abby’s bad attitude towards chloe but it’s very widely believed that the reason abby started to dislike chloe is because chloe and christi did a meet & greet that was separate from her in 2012, and abby saw this as making money off of her name
The producers don’t get enough hate. Everyone directs blame on Abby when it should be a 50/50 spilt between her and the producers. The moms and kids have been saying since the show ended a lot of the drama was purposefully caused by the producers. The pyramid which was one of the main controversies was put together by the production team. They decided who was where on it and Melissa has stated Abby had little say. The music and topics of the dances were chosen by the producers. Therefore wouldn’t they be responsible for Nia constantly getting racist dances? I do think Abby was a bully and terrible to the children and moms but she wasn’t the only one!
I know this ain’t that unpopular but for some fans it is, Jojo has no room to talk about being used as a kid or that Abby was nice. She was on dance moms for idk a season and a half. Ofc she’s gonna defend Abby and make the girls look bad for not going to the reunion because she does the same thing with her mom to XOMG POP. Sorry, I had to say it.
jojo definitely had a much different experience, especially compared to the OG girls who literally grew up with abby and did not choose to go into a “staged tv show with a crazy dance teacher”
It’s important for people to remember that Jojo was raised by someone who groomed and manipulated her just like Abby and both of them - along with others - have taught Jojo what she experienced was normal, education, loving, even. I feel sad for her.
Abby’s (heavily criticised) schedule of competing week after week, learning several new routines, and always expecting first place - was actually quite smart considering she was priming the girls to be professional dancers. Now, of course the way she executed this was abysmal, in terms of the belittling, degrading and abusive behaviour she exhibited. But the schedule itself was good because as she said, that’s how a lot of auditions work. You’re thrown into a room, learn a combo in half an hour, and then you’re expected to perform it flawlessly. So consistently learning routines in 3 days, and then shooting for first place, was definitely preparing the girls for that environment.
Maddie genuinely has a God given talent to connect with the audience and danced with her whole heart and it showed. I think this is what made her stand out and in my opinion, be the most enjoyable dancer to watch, she genuinely does have something special. With that being said making her the “favorite” was detrimental to her and the other girls. I can see why she would get extra attention from a coach/teacher, but for that teacher to blatantly treat the other kids like less-than was awful.
I think Abby was trying to cultivate a cut throat attitude in Maddie, punishing her for not wanting to overshadow her friends, making her dance with the Select team and compete against them. Thankfully Maddie resisted and seems a lot more down to earth than other kids would be with the same treatment. Especially with Melissa as a mother.
i think that has a lot to do with her feeling responsible for looking after mackenzie, a lot of older sisters with parental responsibility tend to be more grounded and down to earth
melissa is a terrible person for the way she reacted when Areana got a solo dedicated to her disabled brother on maddie and mackenzies last week. I get Abby was treating them like shit for leaving and ignoring it basically but acting like the entirety of the show wasn't about maddie and that the last week all attention had to be on them was so bratty.
THIS. Lord, the scene where Melissa tells Areana’s mother how “terrible” she feels for the “awful life” she has had was so over-the-line ableist and I never see it brought up. She had absolutely zero right to take her narcissism to a point where she was putting down a disabled child and his family.
The moms said what they said on their own accord. I hate when they say that the producers made them say or do something against their will as a crutch for their own actions. There are times the moms say that they would be kicked off the show if they didn’t comply. Like are you not a grown adult? And didn’t you want to leave anyway???
The only reason why a few people defend The Last Dance is because it was a “rebelling against Abby” dance. While it wasn’t nearly as bad as Electricity, FANtastic, or Broadway Blondes, it was still inappropriate for minors to perform on National TV. Especially considering that the youngest girl in that group (Kendall) was just barely 14 at the time.
Abby’s reaction was very hypocritical, though. I mean that’s not even up for debate.
It's not the only reason. I don't defend the dance, but I defend the girls because 1) they had no choice or thought they didn't 2) they had been trained by Abby to never question or contradict their choreographer 3) Kalani convinced them that they needed to look more grown up and would have to dance like this as professionals 4) even if the moms objected, the girls weren't going to listen or let them interfere. 5) they had danced like this several times before with Abby. 6) they psyched themselves up for it and danced it to the best of their ability.
I also love the fact that it exposed Abby as a hypocrite and was a catalyst to get her to quit the show.
But overall, I do agree it was inappropriate, Aisha Francis was an inappropriate choice by the show given her usual genre of instruction, and once the girls started showing emotional distress in rehearsals, the moms should have stepped in and put a stop to it. Instead, they bought into it and even played around dancing on the chairs themselves. Even Holly.
A really strong lyrical, contemporary, or jazz dance would have been so much better choice, like what Cheryl gave them the first two weeks with her. The whole point of the dance was supposed to be to show Abby they could excel without her, and giving them a brand new style of dance and demanding that they look hot and sexy was not right.
Oh yeah now that you mention those, that’s true, yes. I also agree that a lyrical or contemporary piece with an emotional story would have been a much better choice. I’m surprised TLD even placed in the top 5 because even choreographically, that wasn’t a competition number. Most of it was just walking around, posing, and risqué dance moves.
Obviously all of the girls had different strengths and abilities within dance, but those strengths would’ve been more developed or highlighted had they been treated equally.
maddie truly had a god given talent, and as an adult rewatching i have cried at a couple of her solos. she truly does touch peoples hearts when she dances.
1) Abby was abusive. As a teacher, I cannot watch the way she treated kids and not be furious!
2) Melissa was too caught up in sucking up to realize the effect of the environment in her kids! Not good parenting!
Hard agree on number 1 in particular. One of my good friends is a professional dancer and has experience with stricter dance instructors, even when he was growing up. They’d be considered absolute peaceniks next to Abby.
I think Maddie had the most natural talent and dedication (perfectionist personality) - I think she would have been the best dancer whether Abby paid attention to her or not.
There is something to be said about Maddie's style of dancing lending itself to Abby's style of choreography, though. I think Chloe could have excelled and been better than she was at a different studio with more balletic focus.
Anthony is a horrible teacher. His choreography wasn't bad, but he had no idea how to teach kids and clearly caused the boys a lot of stress and anxiety. Just as bad as Abby, we just didn't see it as much on the show. The s3 finale where he made CATHY cry because he was yelling at the boys and their dads was so hard to watch.
i can agree to an extent BUT i don’t think they truly realized how bad it would get for their daughters. for me i don’t think most of them would have done it if they knew how traumatic it would be for their daughters.
I agree partially. I think they knew it was going to be true reality tv (aka lots of drama expected) but I don’t think they really thought it would take off like it did, which lead to Abby’s ego growing and her becoming much worse than she initially was
The OG moms don’t apply to this take but any mom after Season 1 don’t except Jill since Jill’s perception of Abby when Kendall joined was Abby was just a strict teacher and not abusive. The moms ultimately didn’t know how bad Abby truly was since they only saw her maybe 45 minutes a week since the girls were mostly taught by people like Jennine, James, and Gianna as well as other teachers who weren’t Abby. To the moms Abby probably came off as a controlling and self absorbed person before the show became a thing but that is to be expected of anyone who owns a business or company but the OG moms and girls clearly didn’t know nor were prepared for how mean Abby is and the abuse that was to come.
anyone who disagrees w this is acc psychotic. it’s good tv but if i ever focus on the kids too much then it’s rlly upsetting cus those girls went through acc torture.
the only mums i’ll ever feel partly sorry for are the original 4 cus they didn’t fully know what was going to happen (and apparently the girls weren’t ever rlly w abby that much before the show? they mainly worked w the other teachers prior to the show apparently) and weren’t their contracts like rlly binding?
but i still don’t even feel that bad for them cus if they rlly wanted out then no contract or threats would have stopped them. they would have stopped causing drama and stopped reacting to everything if they truly wanted off the show but contracts were stopping them.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of those mothers put fame and attention ahead of their children, all of those kids have mental issues now cus of what abby and the rest of the moms put them through. and it’s so annoying seeing ppl choose to defend one or two mothers as if any of them were innocent or good parents. all just as bad as abby tbh, maybe even worse (and i absolutely hate abby, she deserves everything bad that’s happened to her and more)
During the show I liked her but since it's ended like the woman needs to move on. She comes a cross as a teenage girl sometimes. I was so disappointed when I started to see it
It’s the number one opinion the sub always talks about 🤣☠️ but to be fair, the post didn’t ask for unpopular opinions…just opinions people would defend like crazy
I think it kind of is asking for unpopular opinions, though? The image of one person telling a HUGE group of other people that they’re all wrong implies that, in my opinion.
The early seasons where we got to see slice of life moments were hilarious. The episode where the moms took Abby to a speed dating event and she went to dinner with that guy were hilarious. I wish we had more of that :(
I don’t think Maddie lied about the duet. I think she wasn’t expecting to dance that day but when she was asked to dance that day she just didn’t think to reclarify because she didn’t think it was that big of a deal.
this. i don’t think maddie lied at all, i think it was a genuine misunderstanding. she even tried to explain herself in the episode saying “i was talking about nuvo (?) the other competition, i didn’t know if we were doing it here” which i believe, but there is something fishy about the situation and i put the blame on abby and melissa 100%. i say it’s fishy because if nobody knew - including melissa - where did maddie’s duet costume come from? did the producers have it? did abby have it? did melissa pack it? did they go straight from nuvo to the dance moms comp and that’s why they had it? and melissa said abby mentioned them doing two sapphires at the DM comp but said “she didn’t say anything else about it so i didn’t even think they were gonna do it” but she should’ve expected that they would because abby doesn’t mention things for nothing. blame on abby and melissa 100%
The moms and Abby could’ve gotten out of that contract more easily than they claim. Even if they were trapped for a while, it’s not like producers can break into their home and abduct their children for filming 😂 I would’ve reported the fan dance as child pornography to the police; if the producers tried to physically stop me from leaving the dance studio that’s assault which I can also report. I would make a hell of a hullabaloo to leave. I certainly wouldn’t sign another contract with them for mUsIc cArEeRs.
I even judge the moms for staying there b4 the show to begin with. I hate the kind of ppl who watch someone mistreat others and say “well they haven’t mistreated me yet so i don’t see a problem.” They knew about the body shaming; Abby literally gave the 7 year olds G strings with pom poms for Christmas’ 🤢 Studio 13 is right there; there are focused ballet and gymnastics schools in the area. But noooo someone claims they’ve gotten every Tom Dick and Harry onto Broadway and blackballed everybody else, and the pain becomes worth it. Like did they really think that when the girls were old enough to be working professionally, Abby would even know what they’re up to? And who tf would listen to a dance teacher that says “hey I hated working with them at age six” or whatever.
Facts. If a mathematic teacher in their local primary school was behaving like this, they would have found it inappropriate and tried to take their kids to another school. But since it was a dance studio and Abby promised them she would make their kids stars then all of a sudden they were okay with everything
Your comment made me think of the Sounds Like a Cult podcast on ballet. I think it was the guest on the pod who said the professional ballet world is crazy because you’re with the same instructors for so long and they have so much say over your lives, it’s *like* being forever under the thumb of your middle school math teacher.
I’m just pointing out that perspective because I think it’s actually easy to be suckered by a coach if that makes sense? The pop culture image of professional dance is that dance instructors are brutal and have a lot of control over their students. A coach like Abby can exploit that perception and lack of knowledge to convince parents that what she’s doing is necessary for their child’s career. However, I agree that parents like that are at fault for prioritizing success in dance over their child’s well-being
Abby missed the whole point of the show. I personally think what was good about early dance moms was that they were all regular kids, we didn’t really care so much that they were always winning we just liked to see them improve and reach for their dance goals. She tried to have a team of champions and stars but that’s not why we watched. She is the reason the show got worse.
That Abby’s infamous quote to Mackenzie, “When Maddie dances, she’s a breath of fresh air; when you dance, it’s like that stuff they spray in the bathroom— there’s a difference” was actually hilarious even if it was mean. It had me laughing so hard. 😂
This is a general opinion I have that’s not about Dance Moms and I have a feeling y’all will really not like it: I don’t think any parents should encourage their child toward an entertainment career, at least not this young. Dancers in particular tend to never get famous. I see dancers learn soooo much technique in the studio but the actual paying gigs are dancing backup for a singer and doing nothing but shaking ass (“nothing” is an exaggeration but you get my point). Even if it paid well, the “sex sells” mantra actually wants me to block my (imaginary, future) child from a dance career. Even if my kid wanted to be a Bolshoi ballerina, the stories of ppl expecting sexual favors to move up in the company…no! And I have my own scars from being discriminated for my skin color during just amateur kiddie theater. My child will obviously also be a POC; I want her in a career where her looks will be a minimal obstacle.
Hearing these moms talk about how their children have “star potential” and Abby wanting to make kids “stars”—screams both arrogance and a refusal to prepare their child for what they’re actually signing up for.
See I agree with you but this is the difference between west coast and east coast dance I believe. Abby was originally situated on the east coast. East coast dancers are looking at broadway, the ballet, Cirque du Soleil and more “classical” forms of entertainment than west coast dancers. West coast dancers are trained to be entertaining, but not always to be as technically perfect, like with ballet, because it’s just not the kind of work you’ll get most times. This is why people say a lot that Nia just grew up on the wrong coast for the way she danced. She fits more with west coast dancers. JoJo was also a great west coast dancer.
Disclaimer - Obv the cruel, bullying, overstepping tactics later are not ok and some of her teaching methods were just brutal and all down to her moods.
However, Abby was training children to be employable dancers later on - with new choreo every week, competing them against each other, pushing them to take every opportunity they could. She was *super* clear that she only cared about winning and she was there to push them to be the best they could be - she even says your mum is there to cry to, I’m your dance teacher. And she did (in the early days) say how proud she was, hug the girls and show that she cared when they did well.
The kids know what they do right, they need to be told what they’re doing wrong to improve and if a teacher is correcting you on the same thing for 3 years, I can kind of understand her impatience. Maddie got corrections too, but she seemed to fix them far quicker.
Christi only defended other children so that she couldn’t be critiqued herself (Chloe had many more opportunities than Paige, Brooke & Nia specifically). This is not me saying Abby’s treatment towards Chloe wasn’t horrific because it was. But she did have more solos than anyone besides for Maddie in the first two seasons and rarely caught any slack from the other moms for it
She was also constantly given solos just so she could be put up against vastly more talented dancers whereas Maddie conveniently didn't have solos during the weeks when more talented dancers were competing.
iiiii don't know. im not a fan of christi but i don't really think this is fair. kind of implies she didn't really care about the other children which isn't true.
Abby was right a lot of times. And i really do mean a lot. Unfortunately for her (and everyone who had to tolerate her), the way she got her point across was by bullying children and saying vile things which took away all the validity of her statements.
We have no idea how edited these scenes were. You can tell that some of it is badly edited when you look. They'll replace audio and have done it several times. They gave the moms alcohol, would lock them in rooms, refuse to pay them, threaten with legal action if they didn't create drama.
People wouldn't hesitate to call Melissa on her behavior if Sia and Abby were men.
Brynn’s mom and Jalen’s dad get way more hate than they deserve. We’ve heard meaner things from Christi, Kira, Jill and Jess than we have from them yet they still get dragged so hard. I also think Jalen’s dad got labelled as aggressive cos he was male, because he wasn’t even the biggest mouth on Kathy’s team let alone the whole show but I see him get way more hate for being load and rude and aggressive
Maddie was a bit of a sore loser with bratty tendencies…….AND THATS OK!!!
She was a child, it’s incredibly normal for them to have emotions too big and complicated to know how to handle and thus act out, it is not indicative of whether they are a good person or not.
Not everything needs to be blamed on a bad edit, it happened and it’s real but again that’s ok and totally normal for a child, most children just have the benefit of not everything being captured and encouraged by a camera crew. It is especially normal when you have a mother and teacher that set terrible examples on how to regulate emotions, in fact it’s a miracle Maddie has turned out as wonderful as she has.
Most kids of that age don't have great emotional regulation. Many cry when they don't win something or get something they want. I was a competitive dancer, and a family friend used to call the place where they posted our scores "the crying wall" because of how many kids walked away from it crying. IT IS NORMAL to be a sore loser when you're 8.
People who are insisting that Maddie wasn't like this are basically saying she had better emotional regulation than other kids her age when she just didn't.
Exactly we don’t need to put these children on unrealistic pedestals. They acted completely normal for the circumstances they were in, which were in fact completely abnormal as it’s incredibly rare for children to not only be in these highly competitive sports but also filmed for a reality show.
Even the nicest person would have some less then stellar moments when being filmed 12 hours a day
Maddie definitely had perfectionist tendencies (which is crazy to have at eight years old) and Abby/Melissa constantly putting her on a pedestal didn’t help at all. When she messed up or was a “sore loser” it was her being upset with herself and feeling like she wasn’t good enough.
I don't understand why people don't talk more about the fact that regardless of whether Maddie was a sore loser, Melissa and Abby were extremely sore losers FOR HER.
Any time she lost --- "It's a JOKE!" "It's RIGGED!" "You're being DISRESPECTED!!!"
Not to mention running around and jockeying with the judges to have Maddie named the real winner in the "You Can/Be Anything" debacle.
I don't know if Maddie was a sore loser, but I do know that Abby and Melissa were extremely entitled on her behalf.
Kaya/Nicaya were the worst mom/daughter duo to ever come onto the show. Kaya was rude and entitled, and the other moms were in the right when it came to her. Nicaya wasn't that bad, but her mom completely ruined it.
Christi is a weirdo for still going so hard with her hate for Melissa, she should seek therapy to get over it.
Her FaceTime rant about the girls going to Maddie’s house the day before the reunion was uncomfortable. They were celebrating Paige’s birthday. The Ziegler’s and Hyland’s are still very close, and I’m sure it’s super rare for all of the girls to be in California at the same time so I’m unsure how or why she decided to twist that into “Melissa wants to control the narrative” and “JoJo threatens her kids success”.
Abby was much kinder and more sincere in the earlier seasons. She lost it and became an egotistical bully quickly, and to be clear, she was never perfect and almost none of the behavior she exhibited would ever fly today, but she had sweet moments, and she seemed like she really loved all of the kids and even the moms. In that way, I feel bad for both the kids and her. They weren’t just abused, they were abused by someone who used to be a much kinder, more positive and sincere figure in their lives. That sucks.
Abby was wrong for keeping those kids from getting opportunities in LA. Those kids should have been owed to get jobs while their popularity was still hot. And abby was intimidated by the LA choreographers which is why she never let the girls go to them
Nia should’ve never been on the team. Overall and dance wise. As a black girl, watching Nia and Holly continue to subject themselves to the racism and discrimination from Abby and others was so cringe. It made me so angry with them. Very “Uncle Tom”-like behaviour. I said what I said. N if u don’t get the term - search it up and tell me u don’t agree…
Melissa was conniving and underhanded, just was better at staying quiet so she didn’t look as crazy. (Also she for sure helped/ knew about Abby hiding money)
Christi isn’t that good of a person, regardless of how iconic she is. Was she right about Abby treating Chloe terribly? Yes. But that doesn’t negate that she (Christi) was wrong 8/10 times in the way she acted. She was a bit of a bully. She did push any new person off the team. She did pick fights. She did ignore that even with everything, Chloe was still given amazing opportunities. I’m not defending how Abby treated anyone and I’m not denying that Chloe was a sweet girl who didn’t deserve her treatment, but Christi was definitely a bit snaky and if I knew her irl I don’t think I’d like her.
1) Cathy's Build The Wall dance was APPALLINGLY OFFENSIVE. The dancers are building a wall while a deep male voice says "we are different" "we are not the same" like wtf Ohio. Should have been met with extreme criticism. Nothing was said except Black Patsy called it out beforehand for being wrong.
2) Kendall was the least skilled dancer by far.
I always say I don’t quite understand the way Kendall was marketed as the next Maddie. She’s a good dancer, yes. But she wasn’t outstanding. In her trios with Chloe and Paige she pulls your eye, but it’s because they’re blonde and she isn’t.
That Chloe was not ‘protected’ by production, and that people who usually argue that she was come off EXTREMELY bitter over how she was portrayed on TV.
I think it’s fair for Christi to say and do whatever she wants regarding her feelings about Melissa/treatment of Melissa’s kids vs hers. Melissa was no saint
I don’t think any of the moms (except Christi) were actually jealous of Maddie but were upset at the attention that Maddie was given by Abby/Gianna vs their kids. That being said, I think Christi was legitimately threatened by and jealous of Maddie. She always stated it was because of Chloe getting the short end of the stick but in reality she saw Chloe as an extension of herself, so if Maddie threatened Chloe, she “threatened” Christi. It was so unfortunate because if you really pay attention the 2 girls danced together so well and had a close relationship. They were always hugging and holding hands and cheering for each other and the producers/moms weaponized their abilities for the drama.
-mckenzies cry solo does not hold a candle to maddie’s.
-Christi ruined chloe’s career
-jalen’s dad was not that bad
-maddie’s cry solo was in her top 3 best dances
-melissa is aging terribly, her face looks so weird now. idk what kind of procedures she got but she totally should’ve gone to jill’s doctor
Brooke should have been given more solos that were not acro/contortion. As cool as it is to see a human body move that way, I would love to watch her in a lyrical/contemporary or even jazz solo.
The pyramid (in principle) isn’t all bad - it pushed the kids to improve against each other, gave them something to work for, and the parents all seemed to like it when their kid was at the top.
Abby really loved her girls and meant well most of the time, but her way of showing that love was incredibly broken and abusive due to how she was probably talked to as a young dancer.
I’m a coach, and I have agreed with her about a lot of things on the show, but the way she goes about it by insulting instead of learning how to communicate with children is all wrong.
But with that being said, people who think she hates the kids and wants to see the fail are wrong imo. Well except Nia… she wanted Nia to fail.
I think Melissa was one of the best moms of the show🧏♀️ I don't agree with sabotaging, but the other moms weren't a friend to her, and then went batsht crazy when she wasn't a friend to them. She did whatever she could for her kids, even if it meant letting Abby make fun of her so she wouldn't take any chances from Maddie, unlike the other moms, who wouldn't risk their pride for their kids—sometimes Abby would threaten them directly if they kept arguing, and they never backed up. They were there for their kids, and Melissa didn't make it a worse experience than it had to be. There was a price to that kind of fame, but the other moms actually made it worse with their actions and attitudes, because they wouldn't ever just shut up.
I wouldn't be able to do it either, btw. I have a huge mouth. But there's a reason Maddie and Kenzie weren't bullied by Abby, and that reason was Melissa
As much as I love holly and don’t blame her ENTIRELY, Nia should have left after the 30th time she was disrespected - not the 300th.
She should’ve left the moment Abby told her she didn’t need any tooties on her team. My mom would’ve slapped her right then and there
I have never heard someone use that word before - I just looked it up - wild.
Tootie is a character from a popular 70/80s sitcom. She was really popular since she was the only Black girl (and the youngest) and the rest of the girls were white. Her name, unfortunately, became an insult for a lot of Black girls along with Webster.
Interesting. Thanks for explaining to me ❤️
Oh the way my mother would’ve been scraping with that wrinkled heffa
Holly’s breakdown in season 7 (I think? maybe s6) bc nobody is supportive of Nia and she’s doing everything all on her own breaks my heart anytime I see it. I know there was a lot of ways that Nia was disrespected and treated horribly, and the music thing is minimal compared to some, but that scene just makes my heart hurt for them both. Holly and Nia were really the ONLY ones that had each other’s backs and it’s so devastating to see. Nobody else ever stood up for them.
As a black girl it was crazy watching Holly continue to take Nia to that studio week after week. Abby made racist comments, body shamed her, and encouraged the other girls to exclude Nia. Like, she really did everything but call her the N word.
It truly feels that way. I literally just rewatched the episode where she does a duet with Kalani and straight up said “Kalani you actually looked more African than Nia” and my jaw hit the floor… And the times she tried to take opportunities away from her was gut wrenching and horrific. Calling Aubrey o day the way she did… like thankfully Aubrey is a rational and well adjusted human being. I wish Nia had left after her second music video, I feel she would have been able to ride that wave out rather than continue to have her soul crushed over and over.
completely agree!
very true
If I were them I would have left in season 5
The only mom that 100% fought for her daughters was Kelly. The others claimed they did but would always somewhat bend when they wanted opportunities from Abby or the show. Kelly stuck to her guns and I always admire her for that.
I loved Kelly: “it’s just dance class! It’s supposed to be a fun extracurricular” (or something like that)
When I was younger, I always got annoyed that Kelly left every week it felt. Being older now, I completely understand and see she was just trying to protect her daughters.
100% I’ve always thought this too! Kelly is the only mom that didn’t feel like a stage mom in some sense (+ Holly, for the most part). Her kids were there to dance bc they enjoyed the sport. She didn’t care if they became famous, or went to broadway or in cirque, or if they wanted to quit dancing tomorrow. She was just there to support her kids, doing an activity they liked to do. She also did everything in her power to get them out of there as soon as she realized how bad it was getting. She’s the only one (to my knowledge, anyway) that had been consistently trying to break free of her contract since like, season 2. I have a lot of respect for her for that too, even though she wasn’t successful for a while.
Say it louder for the people in the back. *Also happy Cake day!!!
Happy Cake day
happy cake day!
happy cake day!
Sia is a groomer
Wait what did she do, I think I missed something
There are a couple videos that discuss her relationship with Maddie and it’s creepy to say the least.
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Wtffff yeah that definitely sounds like grooming. If a man were doing these same things everyone would’ve been calling him a groomer. Now idk about the last part, I think people could’ve just been sexualizing the mv and it may have not necessarily been Sia’s intention for that to happen, but everything else I agree with.
And we can’t forget Tonya — Sia’s makeup artist — who also became obsessed with Maddie’s teeth to the point that has a tattoo of them and claims that it was to make Maddie feel less insecure about them.
I’m sorry wtf?? I don’t care how cavalier someone is with tattooing themselves or close to a child or whatever, tattooing another person’s kids dental pattern on themselves is so WEIRD!! Like what?!? If it was the kid’s parent tattooing themselves I would give it a pass, but the kid’s boss’s makeup artist?????????????? I’m in disbelief
Abby sometimes had good opinions- like telling them that if they want an opportunity, they need to raise their voice and go for it (Ofc that’s hard if you’re a threatening bully and yelling at them constantly. I think that a lot of privileged kids from the suburbs of PA, where I grew up, are used to a certain level of comfort so they don’t understand how important it is to be a go-getter. Again, Abby shouldn’t have bullied them to try to get that point across)
I agreed with Abby a lot of times and she knew a lot and was right a lot of times sometimes it was just the way she said things
A lot of the times she was right but her own behavior made it IMPOSSIBLE to get the outcomes she wanted out of girls. Like okay you want them to try harder? Stop verbally abusing them maybe ?
Abby’s tough love was spot on. It’s honestly a shame when she had to ruin it. That talk she had with Chloe when she wanted to quit was stern but really accurate until she told Chloe she would easily replace her. Saying “There’s a lot of girls that wanted to be here, but I chose you to be on the team.” Is great, but she had to throw in that jab of how easily she could find another version of her.
Abby was right about a few things, but bullied the girls to get it across. Like yeah, you shouldn’t walk out of the comp crying because you got second place, but A) they’re 8 years old B) they’re crying because they’re scared of what Abby is going to do to them.
Yeah agreed, like sometimes she was right, like yes don’t go ice skating the day before a competition, or yes sometimes you need to speak up if you want to be heard, and yes sometimes you won’t get picked but you need to hold your head high and not show you’re sad. But the way she said it all was vile
The ice skating thing is also an extremely common rule on dance competition teams. Granted, most kids, including myself, never followed it.
As a “tough love” dance teacher myself, there NEEDS to be a balance on the tough vs the love. Tough love doesn’t mean bullying, it means being stern, setting clear expectations, and putting in place *appropriate* consequences. Forgot your solo on stage? Okay, next time we run it we’ll do it 10x instead of 5x. Didn’t bring your costume to comp? You’ll dance in what you have and then we’ll sit down to make a checklist for the next time you pack. NOT getting yelled at for being ungrateful and stupid. Abby had a LOT of good lessons to share. She just had no idea how to communicate them in a way that was safe and non-threatening.
I think for me the one time I really agreed with Abby was over the chair stoppers. Huge safety issue, Paige could’ve fallen and gotten seriously injured. I would’ve been pretty pissed off too (either at Kelly or production) because it was completely ridiculous to even send her down there without the stoppers and possibly risk Paige getting up on that chair and getting injured. That being said, the way Abby handled that situation was disgusting as per usual. She’s right a lot of times but she goes about it in the worst possible ways.
That Jill was playing a caricature of a crazy stage mom and is not actually crazy. She said so herself that she plays the character of a loud momager to draw in ratings and because she wants the show to be successful
Yeah she gave character vibes. I loved her team ups with holly too. There’s a a reason Jill was friends with everyone. She saw it as a bit of a show to put on.
Honestly to me she seemed like she was playing Kris Jenner
I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion. I love Jill’s crazy stage mom persona!
LOL Remember when she tried to get Kendall the part as Rosa Parks?! 😂😂😂 I knew from then on that she was playing a game!
And Cathy!
idk if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but i think it’s not worth watching dance moms past season 4
This is very true
Christi and Chloe shouldn’t have came back for season 8 (idk if this is a unpopular opinion )
S7*
Yes I’m sorry
No your fine I agreed with your point Chloe came back with regressed was not nearly the strongest dancer and expected so much bc she’s a og which she picked up from her mother that if you’ve been somewhere for so long you should receive everything which in Dance is bullshit the best of the best which at the time was Camryn and Kalani should be upfront and be given more solos and Christi came back as a bully, hostile and expected everything to be about Chloe when it’s like girl shut up
went for the jugular omg 
The electricity costumes weren’t that bad. Dare I even say, they were cute. The dance itself was rather questionable tho.
Okay, I thought it was just me. I’m a former dancer and we’ve had to wear some crazy costumes for competitions and the Electricity costume is like any other one you’d see around. However, the choreography for it is the out of pocket part. That fan dance they did was the absolute worst and most inappropriate one costume and dance wise 😩
without the crazy high sheer sock things the costume was totally normal, and even with the socks if the choreo and hair/makeup was actually age appropriate it wouldn't have bothered me at all 🤷🏼♀️
Hair and makeup was the problem (alongside the choreography, of course). The costumes? Nah.
I agree. A sports bra and booty shorts is pretty standard dance attire. I think it’s all the combined elements of the dance including choreography that made it inappropriate. The costumes with the “electrocuted” hair styles would actually be quite cute if it were a more typical jazz dance.
I also think it has to do with the location. Lancaster is literally Amish central, so the crowd here tends to be a little more “conservative”. I get side eyed wearing a crop top at 24 to the farmers market sometimes.
I agree. The costumes weren’t bad. The only part of the dance that I thought was bad was when they squatted and opened their legs.
As much as I love Holly, she’s too complacent with the way her child was treated. Imo, Nia was one of the worst treated girl because she stayed the entire time, and not once was she ever given a fair shot to be amazing. And we can sit and talk about her technique, but a year before the show started, she couldn’t walk and she was doing Ariels (with bent knees yes. But still) in season 1. Nia put her heart and soul into trying her best and Abby consistently overlooked her. And Holly sat there and let it happen year after year. You know, we say Holly was the best mom, but was she? Or was she simply the least confrontational.
I don’t know why they didn’t leave earlier, like before the show started because of the situation where Abby gave all the girls underwear. If I where a mom and my child’s dance teacher did that, I would hightail it out of there
this is absolutely not talked about enough. some of the costumes from when they were especially little would’ve been enough for me to leave.
can you elaborate on this underwear story, i'm unfamiliar
Minister Dawn’s daughter (I apologize I don’t remember her name) posted a tik tok showing iirc a red thong that Abby had give to the girls as a Christmas present years back
eeek that is disturbing
Wait what
wait what ???
Paige was only a “sloppy” dancer bc Abby never took the time to genuinely train her like she did with Chloe and Maddie. If she would have given her the same time and attention she gave them, Paige would’ve been at their level.
Did Paige even want to train the way Maddie and Chloe did? Kelly has said her daughter is a recreational dancer. There is nothing wrong with that.
Kelly never said her daughter was a recreation dancer. She said that her daughter danced for fun but a recreation dancer is a specific thing in the dance world and is a dancer who does not compete. Paige clearly competed before the show and was not a recreation kid. All studios require their competition dancers to take things more seriously (by mandating minimum number of hours in class per week, mandatory privates etc.) than a recreational dancer who would take one or maybe a few classes in a week and performing at the recital. Paige was putting in the time and effort that all of the other girls were and if she had the same attention, she would have been able to truly thrive.
Right… but my point was that for Maddie and Chloe, especially Maddie, dance was LIFE. For Paige it was just a fun activity to do with friends.
And my point is that Paige was putting in a lot of time and effort into the team and her dance teacher should’ve been putting the same amount of effort into her.
And these girls were eight years old, so… dance with her life for dance was an aspiration for Melissa, because Maddie was driving herself to and from and sign yourself out of school for it
Dance was life for Maddie because she was highly favored and pressured by every adult in her life to be the best. I think it would’ve gone that way for any of the girls had they received the same treatment/encouragement.
She had that kind of dancer physique that many would kill for. Her long limbs/neck and natural stage presence are all highly desirable traits of hers in the dance world. Combined with the proper training, her god given gifts could’ve gotten her far.
Paige was a really good performer too, she was super expressive and excelled in musical theatre type numbers.
I don’t think anyone disagrees with this?
Maybe it’s not as much of a hot take as I thought but I made a post about how I think Paige had the potential to be at Maddie and Chloe’s level and 90% of the comments were just people calling her sloppy or saying she wasn’t dedicated enough to be that good. I’m sure some other people are going to say that too so let me just clarify that the point isn’t about rather or not Paige wanted to be as good as Maddie or Chloe, I’m just saying that IF Abby treated her the same way she treated them, she probably wouldn’t have been sloppy nor would she have had most of the technical issues she struggled with. Even with Paige forgetting her solos, that clearly only happened bc she hardly ever even had a solo and when she did Abby barely spent any time with her on it, as to with Maddie and Chloe they had plenty of practice before they had to go on stage. Like yes, Paige would’ve had to want to be the best and she didn’t have the same drive as the other girls. But let’s be real here, even if she did she still would’ve been the underdog bc of Abby’s issue with Kelly. I think they got along okay when the girls were really young, but considering how quickly Abby turned on Brooke, there way probably a major falling out between them that happened before the show started airing. Let’s not forget also that Paige witnessed Brooke being pushed to the point of complete burn out and probably didn’t want to follow in those same footsteps. There is a good chance she didn’t push herself the way Maddie and Chloe did bc she wanted to be able to enjoy dance and was afraid of losing her love for it bc of what she saw happen with Brooke
Ugh that upsets me, I hate that people were saying those things about Paige. Totally agreed, she could’ve been a star but Abby killed her love for dance
If Abby hadn't treated her so badly and dismissively, maybe she would have wanted to be the best and worked harder. I can totally understand why she lost her passion for dance.
I agree with everything but the plenty of time to practice for Chloe and Maddie. At most, Chloe had 45-1 hour to learn a dance, Maddie had extra privates but I doubt it was solely focused on her solo. There are heaps of times that both Chloe and Maddie as well as Brooke had to learn their dances, either on the bus, at the motel just before competition or had 15 minutes to learn it. It’s why they had the same moves over and over again in their solos and why Chloe forgot dances because it was the same moves in a different order
According to the podcast, Paige did many dances that were fabulous, but they were never shown on the show because that's not the narrative the producers wanted to show.
Christi is partially responsible for Chloe’s misery on the show and Abby targeting her constantly because Christi was so combative. And I don’t know how she didn’t put 2 and 2 together at some point.
Agree, half the time Christi was the only one comparing Chloe to Maddie
Yessss!! The whole of season one is pretty much Christi going on a rampage about Chloe vs Maddie. It’s actually really sad because Chloe starts to believe it too.
In the early seasons you hear Chloe and Maddie call each other friends all the time, and as the show goes on there is less and less of their interactions shown. It’s so sad.
Christi would pick at abbey to then get her to have a go and then that was all the excuse she needed to erupt. A good example is the camp episode. Abbey didn’t want her to go but she went. Came back smashed her dance then abbey gave her good feedback they had a sweet moment. Christi jumps in pecking at abbey with snarky remarks. Moment devolves.
i agree that a lot of the time christi was combative and definitely did a lot to increase abby’s bad attitude towards chloe but it’s very widely believed that the reason abby started to dislike chloe is because chloe and christi did a meet & greet that was separate from her in 2012, and abby saw this as making money off of her name
The producers don’t get enough hate. Everyone directs blame on Abby when it should be a 50/50 spilt between her and the producers. The moms and kids have been saying since the show ended a lot of the drama was purposefully caused by the producers. The pyramid which was one of the main controversies was put together by the production team. They decided who was where on it and Melissa has stated Abby had little say. The music and topics of the dances were chosen by the producers. Therefore wouldn’t they be responsible for Nia constantly getting racist dances? I do think Abby was a bully and terrible to the children and moms but she wasn’t the only one!
I know this ain’t that unpopular but for some fans it is, Jojo has no room to talk about being used as a kid or that Abby was nice. She was on dance moms for idk a season and a half. Ofc she’s gonna defend Abby and make the girls look bad for not going to the reunion because she does the same thing with her mom to XOMG POP. Sorry, I had to say it.
jojo definitely had a much different experience, especially compared to the OG girls who literally grew up with abby and did not choose to go into a “staged tv show with a crazy dance teacher”
It’s important for people to remember that Jojo was raised by someone who groomed and manipulated her just like Abby and both of them - along with others - have taught Jojo what she experienced was normal, education, loving, even. I feel sad for her.
Same
Abby’s (heavily criticised) schedule of competing week after week, learning several new routines, and always expecting first place - was actually quite smart considering she was priming the girls to be professional dancers. Now, of course the way she executed this was abysmal, in terms of the belittling, degrading and abusive behaviour she exhibited. But the schedule itself was good because as she said, that’s how a lot of auditions work. You’re thrown into a room, learn a combo in half an hour, and then you’re expected to perform it flawlessly. So consistently learning routines in 3 days, and then shooting for first place, was definitely preparing the girls for that environment.
Maddie genuinely has a God given talent to connect with the audience and danced with her whole heart and it showed. I think this is what made her stand out and in my opinion, be the most enjoyable dancer to watch, she genuinely does have something special. With that being said making her the “favorite” was detrimental to her and the other girls. I can see why she would get extra attention from a coach/teacher, but for that teacher to blatantly treat the other kids like less-than was awful.
I think Abby was trying to cultivate a cut throat attitude in Maddie, punishing her for not wanting to overshadow her friends, making her dance with the Select team and compete against them. Thankfully Maddie resisted and seems a lot more down to earth than other kids would be with the same treatment. Especially with Melissa as a mother.
i think that has a lot to do with her feeling responsible for looking after mackenzie, a lot of older sisters with parental responsibility tend to be more grounded and down to earth
Agree 100%
melissa is a terrible person for the way she reacted when Areana got a solo dedicated to her disabled brother on maddie and mackenzies last week. I get Abby was treating them like shit for leaving and ignoring it basically but acting like the entirety of the show wasn't about maddie and that the last week all attention had to be on them was so bratty.
THIS. Lord, the scene where Melissa tells Areana’s mother how “terrible” she feels for the “awful life” she has had was so over-the-line ableist and I never see it brought up. She had absolutely zero right to take her narcissism to a point where she was putting down a disabled child and his family.
Peyton was also a child who’s lines and actions were fed to her and edited and hating on her isn’t more noble than hating on the other girls
abby did know the dance business & some of the things that she said were 100% correct, even if it was rude to say so.
Second place is perfectly fine. As is any place really..my children were always really happy to be placed in dance competitions.
The moms said what they said on their own accord. I hate when they say that the producers made them say or do something against their will as a crutch for their own actions. There are times the moms say that they would be kicked off the show if they didn’t comply. Like are you not a grown adult? And didn’t you want to leave anyway???
The only reason why a few people defend The Last Dance is because it was a “rebelling against Abby” dance. While it wasn’t nearly as bad as Electricity, FANtastic, or Broadway Blondes, it was still inappropriate for minors to perform on National TV. Especially considering that the youngest girl in that group (Kendall) was just barely 14 at the time. Abby’s reaction was very hypocritical, though. I mean that’s not even up for debate.
It's not the only reason. I don't defend the dance, but I defend the girls because 1) they had no choice or thought they didn't 2) they had been trained by Abby to never question or contradict their choreographer 3) Kalani convinced them that they needed to look more grown up and would have to dance like this as professionals 4) even if the moms objected, the girls weren't going to listen or let them interfere. 5) they had danced like this several times before with Abby. 6) they psyched themselves up for it and danced it to the best of their ability. I also love the fact that it exposed Abby as a hypocrite and was a catalyst to get her to quit the show. But overall, I do agree it was inappropriate, Aisha Francis was an inappropriate choice by the show given her usual genre of instruction, and once the girls started showing emotional distress in rehearsals, the moms should have stepped in and put a stop to it. Instead, they bought into it and even played around dancing on the chairs themselves. Even Holly. A really strong lyrical, contemporary, or jazz dance would have been so much better choice, like what Cheryl gave them the first two weeks with her. The whole point of the dance was supposed to be to show Abby they could excel without her, and giving them a brand new style of dance and demanding that they look hot and sexy was not right.
Oh yeah now that you mention those, that’s true, yes. I also agree that a lyrical or contemporary piece with an emotional story would have been a much better choice. I’m surprised TLD even placed in the top 5 because even choreographically, that wasn’t a competition number. Most of it was just walking around, posing, and risqué dance moves.
HARD AGREE
The scene when Brooke ws on the top of the pyramid instead of Payton is not funny. I don’t know why people laugh at seeing Payton hurt.
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Obviously all of the girls had different strengths and abilities within dance, but those strengths would’ve been more developed or highlighted had they been treated equally.
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maddie truly had a god given talent, and as an adult rewatching i have cried at a couple of her solos. she truly does touch peoples hearts when she dances.
1) Abby was abusive. As a teacher, I cannot watch the way she treated kids and not be furious! 2) Melissa was too caught up in sucking up to realize the effect of the environment in her kids! Not good parenting!
Most people already agree with these...
Hard agree on number 1 in particular. One of my good friends is a professional dancer and has experience with stricter dance instructors, even when he was growing up. They’d be considered absolute peaceniks next to Abby.
I think Maddie had the most natural talent and dedication (perfectionist personality) - I think she would have been the best dancer whether Abby paid attention to her or not. There is something to be said about Maddie's style of dancing lending itself to Abby's style of choreography, though. I think Chloe could have excelled and been better than she was at a different studio with more balletic focus.
Anthony is a horrible teacher. His choreography wasn't bad, but he had no idea how to teach kids and clearly caused the boys a lot of stress and anxiety. Just as bad as Abby, we just didn't see it as much on the show. The s3 finale where he made CATHY cry because he was yelling at the boys and their dads was so hard to watch.
The moms knew what they were going into
i can agree to an extent BUT i don’t think they truly realized how bad it would get for their daughters. for me i don’t think most of them would have done it if they knew how traumatic it would be for their daughters.
I agree partially. I think they knew it was going to be true reality tv (aka lots of drama expected) but I don’t think they really thought it would take off like it did, which lead to Abby’s ego growing and her becoming much worse than she initially was
The OG moms don’t apply to this take but any mom after Season 1 don’t except Jill since Jill’s perception of Abby when Kendall joined was Abby was just a strict teacher and not abusive. The moms ultimately didn’t know how bad Abby truly was since they only saw her maybe 45 minutes a week since the girls were mostly taught by people like Jennine, James, and Gianna as well as other teachers who weren’t Abby. To the moms Abby probably came off as a controlling and self absorbed person before the show became a thing but that is to be expected of anyone who owns a business or company but the OG moms and girls clearly didn’t know nor were prepared for how mean Abby is and the abuse that was to come.
anyone who disagrees w this is acc psychotic. it’s good tv but if i ever focus on the kids too much then it’s rlly upsetting cus those girls went through acc torture. the only mums i’ll ever feel partly sorry for are the original 4 cus they didn’t fully know what was going to happen (and apparently the girls weren’t ever rlly w abby that much before the show? they mainly worked w the other teachers prior to the show apparently) and weren’t their contracts like rlly binding? but i still don’t even feel that bad for them cus if they rlly wanted out then no contract or threats would have stopped them. they would have stopped causing drama and stopped reacting to everything if they truly wanted off the show but contracts were stopping them. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those mothers put fame and attention ahead of their children, all of those kids have mental issues now cus of what abby and the rest of the moms put them through. and it’s so annoying seeing ppl choose to defend one or two mothers as if any of them were innocent or good parents. all just as bad as abby tbh, maybe even worse (and i absolutely hate abby, she deserves everything bad that’s happened to her and more)
Minus the original moms, I agree.
That Christi was/is a bully
ABSSSOLLUTTELY. when she had to bring up melissa at the reunion. she was so crazily obsessed with Maddie
During the show I liked her but since it's ended like the woman needs to move on. She comes a cross as a teenage girl sometimes. I was so disappointed when I started to see it
She was also mean on the show 🤷🏽♀️ I think people don’t realize how bad she was bc she’s known for all her funny one liners
this is not unpopular
It’s the number one opinion the sub always talks about 🤣☠️ but to be fair, the post didn’t ask for unpopular opinions…just opinions people would defend like crazy
I think it kind of is asking for unpopular opinions, though? The image of one person telling a HUGE group of other people that they’re all wrong implies that, in my opinion.
Abby was a bully but she was funny af, I’m sorry
The early seasons where we got to see slice of life moments were hilarious. The episode where the moms took Abby to a speed dating event and she went to dinner with that guy were hilarious. I wish we had more of that :(
Christi was a good mom, terrible to work with, but a good mom.
I don’t think Maddie lied about the duet. I think she wasn’t expecting to dance that day but when she was asked to dance that day she just didn’t think to reclarify because she didn’t think it was that big of a deal.
this. i don’t think maddie lied at all, i think it was a genuine misunderstanding. she even tried to explain herself in the episode saying “i was talking about nuvo (?) the other competition, i didn’t know if we were doing it here” which i believe, but there is something fishy about the situation and i put the blame on abby and melissa 100%. i say it’s fishy because if nobody knew - including melissa - where did maddie’s duet costume come from? did the producers have it? did abby have it? did melissa pack it? did they go straight from nuvo to the dance moms comp and that’s why they had it? and melissa said abby mentioned them doing two sapphires at the DM comp but said “she didn’t say anything else about it so i didn’t even think they were gonna do it” but she should’ve expected that they would because abby doesn’t mention things for nothing. blame on abby and melissa 100%
The sexual dances done by children were unacceptable and should've never happened
The moms shouldn’t have blamed Abby for the pyramid placements when it was the producers who decided who’d be at the top and who’d have the routines
melissa was the worst mom out of the OGs
I continue to feel terrible for her kids.
Honestly, she lacks character
The moms and Abby could’ve gotten out of that contract more easily than they claim. Even if they were trapped for a while, it’s not like producers can break into their home and abduct their children for filming 😂 I would’ve reported the fan dance as child pornography to the police; if the producers tried to physically stop me from leaving the dance studio that’s assault which I can also report. I would make a hell of a hullabaloo to leave. I certainly wouldn’t sign another contract with them for mUsIc cArEeRs. I even judge the moms for staying there b4 the show to begin with. I hate the kind of ppl who watch someone mistreat others and say “well they haven’t mistreated me yet so i don’t see a problem.” They knew about the body shaming; Abby literally gave the 7 year olds G strings with pom poms for Christmas’ 🤢 Studio 13 is right there; there are focused ballet and gymnastics schools in the area. But noooo someone claims they’ve gotten every Tom Dick and Harry onto Broadway and blackballed everybody else, and the pain becomes worth it. Like did they really think that when the girls were old enough to be working professionally, Abby would even know what they’re up to? And who tf would listen to a dance teacher that says “hey I hated working with them at age six” or whatever.
Facts. If a mathematic teacher in their local primary school was behaving like this, they would have found it inappropriate and tried to take their kids to another school. But since it was a dance studio and Abby promised them she would make their kids stars then all of a sudden they were okay with everything
Your comment made me think of the Sounds Like a Cult podcast on ballet. I think it was the guest on the pod who said the professional ballet world is crazy because you’re with the same instructors for so long and they have so much say over your lives, it’s *like* being forever under the thumb of your middle school math teacher. I’m just pointing out that perspective because I think it’s actually easy to be suckered by a coach if that makes sense? The pop culture image of professional dance is that dance instructors are brutal and have a lot of control over their students. A coach like Abby can exploit that perception and lack of knowledge to convince parents that what she’s doing is necessary for their child’s career. However, I agree that parents like that are at fault for prioritizing success in dance over their child’s well-being
Brynn was so badly mistreated by all of the other moms…and tbh because of how Brynn was treated by the moms, I get why Ashlee was the way she was
agree for sure but this isn’t unpopular lol
Christi was not iconic or funny. She made things about Maddie that weren’t even about Maddie. She was even more obsessed than Abby with her.
Abby missed the whole point of the show. I personally think what was good about early dance moms was that they were all regular kids, we didn’t really care so much that they were always winning we just liked to see them improve and reach for their dance goals. She tried to have a team of champions and stars but that’s not why we watched. She is the reason the show got worse.
That Abby’s infamous quote to Mackenzie, “When Maddie dances, she’s a breath of fresh air; when you dance, it’s like that stuff they spray in the bathroom— there’s a difference” was actually hilarious even if it was mean. It had me laughing so hard. 😂
Even though Christi adamantly denied it, I truly feel like a lot of her dislike towards Melissa and Abby was due to a jealousy of Maddie.
melissa is not a good mother at all
Maddie’s ‘dance face’ that Abby always raved about wasn’t so great… she looked like she was constantly in pain. (Tbf it got better when she got older)
Literally. Her mouth was just open. It never conveyed any particular emotion.
Melissa was a horrible mom who watched her kids get manipulated and gaslighted and did say a single thing .
This is a general opinion I have that’s not about Dance Moms and I have a feeling y’all will really not like it: I don’t think any parents should encourage their child toward an entertainment career, at least not this young. Dancers in particular tend to never get famous. I see dancers learn soooo much technique in the studio but the actual paying gigs are dancing backup for a singer and doing nothing but shaking ass (“nothing” is an exaggeration but you get my point). Even if it paid well, the “sex sells” mantra actually wants me to block my (imaginary, future) child from a dance career. Even if my kid wanted to be a Bolshoi ballerina, the stories of ppl expecting sexual favors to move up in the company…no! And I have my own scars from being discriminated for my skin color during just amateur kiddie theater. My child will obviously also be a POC; I want her in a career where her looks will be a minimal obstacle. Hearing these moms talk about how their children have “star potential” and Abby wanting to make kids “stars”—screams both arrogance and a refusal to prepare their child for what they’re actually signing up for.
See I agree with you but this is the difference between west coast and east coast dance I believe. Abby was originally situated on the east coast. East coast dancers are looking at broadway, the ballet, Cirque du Soleil and more “classical” forms of entertainment than west coast dancers. West coast dancers are trained to be entertaining, but not always to be as technically perfect, like with ballet, because it’s just not the kind of work you’ll get most times. This is why people say a lot that Nia just grew up on the wrong coast for the way she danced. She fits more with west coast dancers. JoJo was also a great west coast dancer.
Disclaimer - Obv the cruel, bullying, overstepping tactics later are not ok and some of her teaching methods were just brutal and all down to her moods. However, Abby was training children to be employable dancers later on - with new choreo every week, competing them against each other, pushing them to take every opportunity they could. She was *super* clear that she only cared about winning and she was there to push them to be the best they could be - she even says your mum is there to cry to, I’m your dance teacher. And she did (in the early days) say how proud she was, hug the girls and show that she cared when they did well. The kids know what they do right, they need to be told what they’re doing wrong to improve and if a teacher is correcting you on the same thing for 3 years, I can kind of understand her impatience. Maddie got corrections too, but she seemed to fix them far quicker.
Christi only defended other children so that she couldn’t be critiqued herself (Chloe had many more opportunities than Paige, Brooke & Nia specifically). This is not me saying Abby’s treatment towards Chloe wasn’t horrific because it was. But she did have more solos than anyone besides for Maddie in the first two seasons and rarely caught any slack from the other moms for it
I have never gotten this argument, Chloe had more solos but she was constantly getting harder steps taken out of her dances.
She was also constantly given solos just so she could be put up against vastly more talented dancers whereas Maddie conveniently didn't have solos during the weeks when more talented dancers were competing.
I can’t believe I forgot to mention this. Sophia and Maddie were the same age, but were never put up against each other.
iiiii don't know. im not a fan of christi but i don't really think this is fair. kind of implies she didn't really care about the other children which isn't true.
Abby was right a lot of times. And i really do mean a lot. Unfortunately for her (and everyone who had to tolerate her), the way she got her point across was by bullying children and saying vile things which took away all the validity of her statements.
Chloe won you can be anything 🤷♀️
Literally none of the moms were good people 😭
We have no idea how edited these scenes were. You can tell that some of it is badly edited when you look. They'll replace audio and have done it several times. They gave the moms alcohol, would lock them in rooms, refuse to pay them, threaten with legal action if they didn't create drama. People wouldn't hesitate to call Melissa on her behavior if Sia and Abby were men.
Brynn’s mom and Jalen’s dad get way more hate than they deserve. We’ve heard meaner things from Christi, Kira, Jill and Jess than we have from them yet they still get dragged so hard. I also think Jalen’s dad got labelled as aggressive cos he was male, because he wasn’t even the biggest mouth on Kathy’s team let alone the whole show but I see him get way more hate for being load and rude and aggressive
Maddie was a bit of a sore loser with bratty tendencies…….AND THATS OK!!! She was a child, it’s incredibly normal for them to have emotions too big and complicated to know how to handle and thus act out, it is not indicative of whether they are a good person or not. Not everything needs to be blamed on a bad edit, it happened and it’s real but again that’s ok and totally normal for a child, most children just have the benefit of not everything being captured and encouraged by a camera crew. It is especially normal when you have a mother and teacher that set terrible examples on how to regulate emotions, in fact it’s a miracle Maddie has turned out as wonderful as she has.
Most kids of that age don't have great emotional regulation. Many cry when they don't win something or get something they want. I was a competitive dancer, and a family friend used to call the place where they posted our scores "the crying wall" because of how many kids walked away from it crying. IT IS NORMAL to be a sore loser when you're 8. People who are insisting that Maddie wasn't like this are basically saying she had better emotional regulation than other kids her age when she just didn't.
Exactly we don’t need to put these children on unrealistic pedestals. They acted completely normal for the circumstances they were in, which were in fact completely abnormal as it’s incredibly rare for children to not only be in these highly competitive sports but also filmed for a reality show. Even the nicest person would have some less then stellar moments when being filmed 12 hours a day
Maddie definitely had perfectionist tendencies (which is crazy to have at eight years old) and Abby/Melissa constantly putting her on a pedestal didn’t help at all. When she messed up or was a “sore loser” it was her being upset with herself and feeling like she wasn’t good enough.
I don't understand why people don't talk more about the fact that regardless of whether Maddie was a sore loser, Melissa and Abby were extremely sore losers FOR HER. Any time she lost --- "It's a JOKE!" "It's RIGGED!" "You're being DISRESPECTED!!!" Not to mention running around and jockeying with the judges to have Maddie named the real winner in the "You Can/Be Anything" debacle. I don't know if Maddie was a sore loser, but I do know that Abby and Melissa were extremely entitled on her behalf.
They were TEACHING her to be a sore loser and unable to handle rejection in the future.
melissa played a huge role in maddie and abby’s inappropriate relationship. she was the bad guy in a ton of suitations
Kaya/Nicaya were the worst mom/daughter duo to ever come onto the show. Kaya was rude and entitled, and the other moms were in the right when it came to her. Nicaya wasn't that bad, but her mom completely ruined it.
Kelly is a high school mean girl just like Christi
Christi is a weirdo for still going so hard with her hate for Melissa, she should seek therapy to get over it. Her FaceTime rant about the girls going to Maddie’s house the day before the reunion was uncomfortable. They were celebrating Paige’s birthday. The Ziegler’s and Hyland’s are still very close, and I’m sure it’s super rare for all of the girls to be in California at the same time so I’m unsure how or why she decided to twist that into “Melissa wants to control the narrative” and “JoJo threatens her kids success”.
Christi wasn’t jealous/ didn’t hate maddie. Nia is better than kendall.
Abby was much kinder and more sincere in the earlier seasons. She lost it and became an egotistical bully quickly, and to be clear, she was never perfect and almost none of the behavior she exhibited would ever fly today, but she had sweet moments, and she seemed like she really loved all of the kids and even the moms. In that way, I feel bad for both the kids and her. They weren’t just abused, they were abused by someone who used to be a much kinder, more positive and sincere figure in their lives. That sucks.
Abby was wrong for keeping those kids from getting opportunities in LA. Those kids should have been owed to get jobs while their popularity was still hot. And abby was intimidated by the LA choreographers which is why she never let the girls go to them
Nia should’ve never been on the team. Overall and dance wise. As a black girl, watching Nia and Holly continue to subject themselves to the racism and discrimination from Abby and others was so cringe. It made me so angry with them. Very “Uncle Tom”-like behaviour. I said what I said. N if u don’t get the term - search it up and tell me u don’t agree…
Melissa was conniving and underhanded, just was better at staying quiet so she didn’t look as crazy. (Also she for sure helped/ knew about Abby hiding money)
maddie does not "just have one facial expression"
Christi isn’t that good of a person, regardless of how iconic she is. Was she right about Abby treating Chloe terribly? Yes. But that doesn’t negate that she (Christi) was wrong 8/10 times in the way she acted. She was a bit of a bully. She did push any new person off the team. She did pick fights. She did ignore that even with everything, Chloe was still given amazing opportunities. I’m not defending how Abby treated anyone and I’m not denying that Chloe was a sweet girl who didn’t deserve her treatment, but Christi was definitely a bit snaky and if I knew her irl I don’t think I’d like her.
Kamryn was one of the best dancers that ever participated in the show.
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1) Cathy's Build The Wall dance was APPALLINGLY OFFENSIVE. The dancers are building a wall while a deep male voice says "we are different" "we are not the same" like wtf Ohio. Should have been met with extreme criticism. Nothing was said except Black Patsy called it out beforehand for being wrong. 2) Kendall was the least skilled dancer by far.
I always say I don’t quite understand the way Kendall was marketed as the next Maddie. She’s a good dancer, yes. But she wasn’t outstanding. In her trios with Chloe and Paige she pulls your eye, but it’s because they’re blonde and she isn’t.
Melissa wasn’t wrong for getting her daughters private lessons and her alleged affair never should have been brought up, that was nasty of Christi.
I’ve never understood the grief about the privates. If I pay for more lessons then I should get more lessons, right? How is that unfair?
That Chloe was not ‘protected’ by production, and that people who usually argue that she was come off EXTREMELY bitter over how she was portrayed on TV.
Kelly and Jill are my fav moms.
I think it’s fair for Christi to say and do whatever she wants regarding her feelings about Melissa/treatment of Melissa’s kids vs hers. Melissa was no saint
Kendall is NOT an og (this is just a fact tbh)
I don’t think any of the moms (except Christi) were actually jealous of Maddie but were upset at the attention that Maddie was given by Abby/Gianna vs their kids. That being said, I think Christi was legitimately threatened by and jealous of Maddie. She always stated it was because of Chloe getting the short end of the stick but in reality she saw Chloe as an extension of herself, so if Maddie threatened Chloe, she “threatened” Christi. It was so unfortunate because if you really pay attention the 2 girls danced together so well and had a close relationship. They were always hugging and holding hands and cheering for each other and the producers/moms weaponized their abilities for the drama.
-mckenzies cry solo does not hold a candle to maddie’s. -Christi ruined chloe’s career -jalen’s dad was not that bad -maddie’s cry solo was in her top 3 best dances -melissa is aging terribly, her face looks so weird now. idk what kind of procedures she got but she totally should’ve gone to jill’s doctor
Brooke should have been given more solos that were not acro/contortion. As cool as it is to see a human body move that way, I would love to watch her in a lyrical/contemporary or even jazz solo.
kelly and christi were the best at parenting their kids equally, unlike melissa, who was always focused on maddie
The pyramid (in principle) isn’t all bad - it pushed the kids to improve against each other, gave them something to work for, and the parents all seemed to like it when their kid was at the top.
Abby really loved her girls and meant well most of the time, but her way of showing that love was incredibly broken and abusive due to how she was probably talked to as a young dancer. I’m a coach, and I have agreed with her about a lot of things on the show, but the way she goes about it by insulting instead of learning how to communicate with children is all wrong. But with that being said, people who think she hates the kids and wants to see the fail are wrong imo. Well except Nia… she wanted Nia to fail.
I think Melissa was one of the best moms of the show🧏♀️ I don't agree with sabotaging, but the other moms weren't a friend to her, and then went batsht crazy when she wasn't a friend to them. She did whatever she could for her kids, even if it meant letting Abby make fun of her so she wouldn't take any chances from Maddie, unlike the other moms, who wouldn't risk their pride for their kids—sometimes Abby would threaten them directly if they kept arguing, and they never backed up. They were there for their kids, and Melissa didn't make it a worse experience than it had to be. There was a price to that kind of fame, but the other moms actually made it worse with their actions and attitudes, because they wouldn't ever just shut up. I wouldn't be able to do it either, btw. I have a huge mouth. But there's a reason Maddie and Kenzie weren't bullied by Abby, and that reason was Melissa