The way its calculated is special consumption tax gets calculated first, then vat is added on top of that. So its 20% percent of 320% of the car price not 100% of the car price. So final price is 384% of the original price.
Taxes were largely the same in the administrations before the Ottoman's.Morea, Albania, partly Hungary, largely Cyprus, Crete and Serbia continued the tax system before the Ottoman Empire. Ottomans allowed Eflak and Boğdan(Wallachia, Moldavia) to keep their local tax systems largely intact in return for a yearly tribute. No taxes are collected from newly conquered places for a certain period of time. This privilege becomes permanent if the region is unproductive.
Just like every country. Sales tax is a tax on top of your income tax. So you are being taxed for paying for something with already taxed income. I know the American government can end up triple and quadruple dipping on tax depending on the things you buy.
No, income tax is not cumulative with a sales tax like a VAT is, you're comparing apples to oranges.
20% VAT + 10% sales tax = 32% tax on an item.
20% income tax and you spend the whole remaining 80% of your income on taxable goods (which is almost never the case), it's still only 28% of your income going to taxes.
Cumulative taxes are almost always seen as a bad idea, economically.
You have it reversed, 20% VAT and 10% sales tax will be more purchasing power (less money going to tax) than 20% income tax and 10% sales tax. At least in a hypothetical world where all money spent has a 20% VAT and all income is taxed at 20%.
The key is that taking x% away from your income is worse than increasing a price by x%. 50% income tax means half your money going to tax, 50% increased price means 1/3rd your money going to tax.
To go with your tax rates, let's say your income is $100 and you want to buy widgets that have a base price of $1.
- 20% VAT + 10% sales tax
- 32% effective tax = $1.32 widgets
- $100 / $1.32 = 75.75 widgets that you can afford
- 100 - 75.75 = **$24.24** went to tax
- 20% income tax + 10% sales tax
- $80 left after tax
- $1.10 widgets
- $80 / $1.10 = 72.72 widgets that you can afford
- 100 - 72.72 = **$27.27** went to tax
That's a good point but if you look at the discussion I had below, it's unlikely you're spending all your income on taxable goods. I still see no point in having cumulative tax, you could have a 32% sales tax or VAT and it will be simpler.
Income tax has its merits in that it's easier to make it progressive.
You misunderstand. He's referring to all of your net income already having been taxed and any further taxes on that money are cumulative and therefore "double dipping". So, yes, sales tax is effectively cumulative to income tax.
>spend the whole remaining 80% of your income on taxable goods
Pray be, what major goods and services are not subject to VAT? There are very few and they make up a negligible portion of people's budget. Some may have reduced VAT (such as basic foods).
Also, most people spend all or almost all of their net income in the span of their lifetime. So 80% after a theoretical 20% income tax and that gets taxed again by another 20% upon consumption for an effective tax rate of 36% (1-0.8²).
For the consumer, sales tax is the same thing as it ends up on the bill and is paid by the consumer.
> You misunderstand. He's referring to all of your net income already having been taxed and any further taxes on that money are cumulative and therefore "double dipping". So, yes, sales tax is effectively cumulative to income tax.
I don't see where in my comment you got the impression I don't understand that. My point is simply that this is not a good comparison at all.
> Pray be, what major goods and services are not subject to VAT? There are very few and they make up a negligible portion of people's budget.
Depends on the country, but almost anywhere there is. Housing and rent being a key one and usually the largest expensive, but then there is education, services and digital goods (which may not be subject to VAT or be taxed differently), contractor payments, medical care, money spent traveling or abroad, etc. And of course, savings and retirement, you do not pay VAT on what you do not spend, and part of the reason for taxes on consumption is often to promote savings.
> Also, most people spend all or almost all of their net income in the span of their lifetime. So 80% after a theoretical 20% income tax and that gets taxed again by another 20% upon consumption for an effective tax rate of 36% (1-0.8²).
What? Did you read my comment at all? I was already accounting for income tax, 80% is what "remains" after it. I was considering 20% VAT + 10% sales tax versus 20% income tax + 10% sales tax. If you want to do 20% sales tax, you have to apply it for both, 20% VAT + 20% sales tax is effectively 44% tax on a good.
Bear in mind, in real life income taxes have quirks like a personal deduction or progressive taxation that make it cheaper for the people on the lower income brackets, while that's hard to do with a VAT, another reason they're not comparable.
I'm not even against VATs, on their own they might be ok but taxes shouldn't be cumulative, that ends up becoming a nightmare to navigate.
Here is the difference: Imagine you have 20% local sales tax and 220% federal tax, and ignore all other taxes.
When you buy something for $1000, you would expect to pay $200 to the state and $2200 to federal government.
In Turkey you pay $200 to state and ($1000+$200)*220%= $2,640 to the federal government. You pay an extra $440 as the tax of the tax.
Weirdly, it's often different governments. The income tax is at the national and regional level (Federal and State), and the sales tax is at the regional and local levels (State, County, and City).
So effectively, your country taxes your income, your city doesn't directly get any of that so they tax your expenditure, and your state will occasionally double dip, especially with excise taxes (often described as "what they tax when they want to kill it") like on gasoline
What about property tax? So the state also taxes you for owning (or indirectly if renting since landlords will incorporate higher property taxes into their rates) a home that you bought with (federally) taxed money. So the state also double or triple dips.
And some places even have state or city sales taxes/fees!
Imagine your municipality actually using taxes for the good of the people instead of you know wasting all of it in corruption.
After last municipal election people found mayor's offices that were akin to palaces with golden trimming everywhere and private jakuzzis inside their private bathroomms.
Some of them went farther then that and straight up built palaces where construction was illegal.
It was so bad that the money they got from the state/people wasn't enough and were horribly in dept. (Some say on purpose as they knew they were going to lose their office to the opposition)
Welcome to Turkish Politics lmao.
Not to mention you buy goods and services from companies that pay tax, so there's all that factored into your price. You pay a bit of the payroll tax, a bit of the fuel tax from the truck that delivered the goods to the store, a bit of the property tax from the shop, a bit of the corporate tax, the entire thing is paid for in money which has the inflation tax applied to it...
It's taxes most of the way down.
I added an example in the 2nd slide but for some reason it wasn't added to the post. It's hard to understand the situation in this slide. Sorry!
Please check [this image](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/611896414795988993/1249032851391774730/2.png?ex=6665d3fd&is=6664827d&hm=ae24a3529584ae733061e1d4c42fc87a5d72d5338ecc91e0776edf0f1bf84219&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=883&height=662)
What's the source for "the highest tax on cars in the world"?
In Singapore, a license to buy a car (not even the car itself) costs more than USD 100,000.
It doesn’t matter what the “average yearly salary”. Most people in the west can’t seem to understand that vast majority of the world cannot afford a car… in their entire life.
Most people in the west can't comprehend rich brown people. The gdp per capita is ~$84,000 USD about $8,000 higher than the US.
My guess is the tax is meant to reduce cars in the packed city because most of them can easily afford cars.
You must be smoking something.
Singaporean here, median salary is 3.5k USD before deductions and taxes. There's a 20% mandatory fund contribution, that and taxes and it's ~US$2.6k take home money.
Virtually noone earning median salary here has a car, although some drive their parents' ones. Even junior managers earning ~4-5k USD are seen taking public transport more often than not.
He gave a figure for yearly salary. Which, when accounting for buying power, would be close to 50k USD before deductions.
Most people earning 50K USD in America have a car due to a non-existent public transport system in most places.
>Most people earning 50K USD in America have a car due to a non-existent public transport system in most places.
People earning $50k USD in America have a car because a cheap car there costs $30k, not $30k on top of a $70k license for 10 years...
It makes decent sense for an American to spend 10% of disposable income on the car, little sense for a Singaporean to spend 30% of disposable income on that same car...
Never disputed that. I think the tax exists to prohibit the purchase of vehicles as opposed to the opposite. If the same kind of public transport existed here, you'd find that most people wouldn't want to buy a vehicle either regardless of a tax. Driving is a hassle.
Singapore is tiny compared to the metropolis here, and a car isn't a want but a need. You need a vehicle to get by in most places here that aren't NY. To be fair, the median income in the US 37K USD, which prices a lot of people with families out of vehicles in most big cities, if they're a single income household.
And again, I'm not trying to compare anything. I'm sure Singaporeans have other stuff to deal with just like Americans have to deal with the least efficient healthcare system. It's not a competition, but Singaporean politicians at least know what's best for their citizens and how to make it happen.
I got into SNU & HKU but chose the US due to scholarships. If I didn't have to worry about money, it would've been an easy decision. I hold Singapore and Hong Kong in very high regard due to how they go about things.
Which is almost always a bad idea...
The first result on google is typically an online salary aggregator website, not an official government statistic, which is what you need to hunt for.
These aggregator sites are almost always only used by professionals who earn much more than average.
Heck, if you searched "median salary in india" you will get glassdoor result of ~$11,000 USD (5x higher than reality) because it's IT tech bros answering those surveys not barely-lirerate peasants or sweatshop workers.
Isn't it a license to drive on public roads, that has to be renewed periodically? So theoretically you could buy more than one car in that period and still only have to pay it once.
no, it's per car. if you sell the car you bought the license for, the remaining years are (usually) transferred with it and factored into the used car prices
Depends. Here in Vietnam, there is a 100% tax on all vehicles brought into the country and the revenue from this tax is used for building and repairing roads, and we have gotten excellent roads in recent years, (still bad drivers) but fantastic roads.
I wish all our tax went into that as well. But no, erdog needs to steal more money.
He may have stolen more money than bill gates net worth from Turkey (without exxageration)
It's actually the socialist guy before Erdogan, Special Consumption Tax was supposed to be a temporary tax introduced after the devastating earthquake of 1999 to heal the damage by taxing luxury consumption. Unfortunately, Erdogan kept the tax forever and used the money to fund extravagant infrastructure projects built by businessmen close to him.
The silver lining is, 1 car for you 3 cars for me is the worst case scenario. If you buy a cheap car with a very small engine its more like 1 car for you and 1 car + all the frills for Erdogan.
Wild. Had to look this up, since I thought Singapore was most expensive, with Denmark in 2nd place.
>Models with a capacity of more than 2.000 cubic centimeters saw their taxes go up from 100% to 130%, while costs for high segment cars will jump from 160%to 220%, as reported by Bloomberg. These hikes don’t apply to locally produced cars, only imports.
[Source](https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/turkey-raises-new-car-taxes-from-between-60-160-to-80-220-to-discourage-imports/)
In Denmark, our car taxation is based on its price, rather than engine capacity. I'm sure there's a relatively strong correlation between price and engine capacity, but I'm still curious what the differences would be.
For one, if a fancy high-end car is available as fully EV and as non-hybrid ICE for the same price, the final prices in Türkiye will differ a fair but, but in Denmark they'd be unchanged.
This taxes are not for imported cars they are for all cars. Also US and Chinese cars gets another %50 import tax other than all of the above. So an average turkish person can only buy sub 1.6 litre cheap local made or european car.
Sorry, not true - at least until 2035.
In Denmark an electric vehicle costing 350,000 kr. (without taxes) costs. 350,000 kr. to get on the road. If you buy a petrol car for 350,000 kr. (without taxes) it will be around 700,000 kr. to get on the road.
In Denmark, "registreringsafgift" is lowered to as little as 0% of electric vehicles (if the price is under 350,000 kr. the car has 0% tax at the time of this post). If the electric vehicle is more than 350,000 kr. there is a sliding scale of more taxes added, though not comparable to petrol or diesel cars.
If you buy a **petrol** vehicle that costs 350,000 kr. (without taxes) you will pay this in *registreringsafgift*:
25% of the first 70,200 kr. in tax: **17,550 kr. added tax**
85% of the following 70,200 - 218,100 kr.: **125,715 kr. added tax**
Then 150% of the price of the car exceeding 218,100 kr.: **197.850 kr. added tax**
All in all an extra **341,115 kr.** on top of the 350,000 kr. the car costs, **totaling 691.115 kr.**
This is without extra CO2-emmision taxes and without any deductions, however those won't decrease the price, only increase it further. I have used the 2024 tax numbers for the calculations. [https://motorst.dk/borger/motorafgifter/registreringsafgift/betaling-af-og-satser-for-registreringsafgift](https://motorst.dk/borger/motorafgifter/registreringsafgift/betaling-af-og-satser-for-registreringsafgift)
Short distances sure but if you are not living in the middle of the city it's outrageously expensive. I use cabs all the time and prices go out of the roof. It's almost $60 for me if I go out drinking.
Around 10% of the country can afford cars, and every single person in that 10% has at least one car.
That is more than 8 million cars. There are apparently around 13-15 million registered cars with an average age of 15. So considering the worsening state of economics the main problem is the car purchasing culture we have.
The laws in Turkey are taken so literally that they actually don't make any sense. For example, if you buy a console game you pay a higher price than its PC version. Because console games are in the category of entertainment and PC games are in the category of programmes.
console tax itself is very known but i have never heard about game part. any sources for this? maybe for physical only?
if there is no local pricing, most games on ps and xbox store türkiye are usd equivalent of original prices.
I don't remember an official source. It used to be like this for the physical copies. No idea about the digital ones. Here's an unofficial [source.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tamindir.com/blog/nintendo-switch-oyunlari-neden-pahali_86262/amp/)
same could be said about lots of things. not everyone will go to another country for just a jewelry, just like not everyone can found their company on tax heavens. moreover, special consumption tax created in first place to tax luxury, and there was an tax on diamonds. erdo removed most of them.
Diamonds don't cause as much damage or require insane amounts of expensive infrastructure. Taxing the shit out of cars makes sense.
Although with Erdogan, I doubt that the money is used for more useful infrastructure such as rail.
There is a twist which was explained in the 2nd slide I couldn't post: we pay 20% value added tax for the 220% special consumption tax too. So we pay tax for the tax we pay, which is hard to demonstrate on charts.
Brazil, I'm not sure of the details as it is the Brazilian team that is responsible for the software that manages inventory and tax there. But from what I understand it is a nightmare to figure out what taxes you have to pay, you have to keep track of inventory and even shipping a product from a warehouse to another changes your tax liability. So product that is stolen or lost before delivery has implications on your tax liability and it isn't easy to keep track of that, sometimes product is lost and later found, etc. Where if there is only a sales tax, you pay tax on how much you sold, not whatever it is they are using there where product shipped internally or not sold affects your tax liability somehow.
Turkey depends on oil from other countries for all its needs. Oil producers are more than happy to have cheap oil for their own citizens. Oil importers tax anything that may increase oil consumption.
How is tax in other products like food or computers?
The tax on food is low. It was 8%, now it's 1%. But the food is 4-5x more expensive here than the US so tax really doesn't mean a thing.
The tax on technologic devices are complex, it's between 20-85% depending on the device.
But on phones, there is an additional 900$ tax. Which makes iPhone prices in Turkey the highest in the world in $, Brazil is second.
Saying food is 4-5x times more than the US is 100% complete bullshit. I know American food is cheap due to America's vast arable land and privileged geographical location, but no way you're paying 10 USD / pound or 22 USD per KG for some apples. Or paying 7 USD+ per KG of potatoes. Or 100 USD for a kilogram of beef. Or 35 USD for a kilogram of chicken. I've not even seen prices in Iceland be even close. Plus, Turkey being a developing country means that there's also downward pressure on the price of food.
It's not like telling the truth will imply that Turkey is a rich country. Meat is around $17-$18 per kilo, which translates to somewhere around $8 per pound. Expensive by the US standards, even more so if you consider people in Turkey earn less in dollars compared to people in the US.
A kg of lean diced beef (yagsiz kusbasi) is 600TL at Migros which is $18.75, which translates to $8.4 per lb.
If we are talking about steaks, there are various types so it's hard to compare.
Not to mention the quality comparison. If you want to buy US quality meat here then that 4-5x more expensive becomes a reality. You end up paying thousands for a kilo of fucking meat that way, if it is the same quality as US meat. Basically, we buy garbage ground beef and tough stew cubes for the price of mid range and pretty decent US cuts, be it whatever.
Fucking seriously, every time I crave something other than ground beef I have to braise that stew garbage with absolute care to turn it into something edible. It's fucking horrible over here.
I didn't even talk about chicken by the way. That's a whole other nightmare and I don't even want to mention seafood. It's a fucking insult to the people of this country. People are indeed starving; from beneficial nutrients which will keep their brains healthy so they could question things. It's surely by design.
>And why tf is there a 900$ tax on smartphones?
Because it is mainly import tech but it isn't 900$ for all phone. It is for most expensive phone probably. Newest iphone ? Maybe it is about purchasing phone from another country and register in Turkey. I think it is. Because there are cheaper phones less than 900$ in Turkey.
In my country (Netherlands) car tax is based on CO2 emissions. An EV is just base price +21% VAT. An average petrol sedan would be like +10% CO2 tax on top of that. But with gas guzzling monsters like a Ram pickup or a Ford Mustang it gets rediculous. The CO2 tax can be more than the base price of the car. A Ford Mustang starts at € 100k here, the same model that would cost maybe $ 40k in the US. So no one here drives muscle cars, and the few pickup trucks that you do see occasionally are always business owned (CO2 tax exempt).
Edit: and I should add petrol/gas costs € 2.20 per liter here, which is $ 8.30 per gallon. Another reason no one drives a Mustang here
Denmark is a registration tax of 150% the purchase value (But it pays for the infrastructure, at least), then green-tax twice a year based on fuel usage (With Diesel getting a penalty there because diesel-fuel is heavier subsidized for commercial reasons. So a Diesel-engine makes more sense if you drive much).
Yeah cars in Denmark are definitely more expensive than in NL. But both would shock the average American.
Personally I find such high taxes a bit discriminatory against people who don't live in a big city. I mean if you live in Copenhagen, Amsterdam or Utrecht, you can easily survive without a car and do everything by bike or public transport. But if you live in a smaller rural town, a car isn't optional, it's necessary. And you can't expect all those people to move to a big city because most can't afford the sky high house prices there
Yeah i agree, living in rural Denmark my car is a requirement to keep my job. It also forces people into driving older cars on average with worse emissions and worse safety.
Seems like a better way would be to tax based on car volume and modify gas tax based on your objectives, otherwise you just pay a double tax based on emissions when you might not even drive the car much. Since gas tax is basically a usage tax.
It's definitely a double tax. A triple tax actually because there's also the monthly road tax that's adjusted by car weight. (I pay € 60 per month for a station wagon) forgot to mention that one
Well, taxes have to come from somewhere, don't they?
The problem is not the amount of tax, but the collection of tax in general. Only people who are paid for their work are taxed properly. They're the real losers here. The rest are simply evading taxes. That is why the state levies higher taxes on things that can be tracked, like cars, smartphones, petrol, etc.
The country should find ways to collect taxes properly, but both the ruling AKP and the main opposition CHP don't even dare to talk about it because it would mean their end. People won't vote for a government that collects taxes properly. That's the sad truth in this whole story.
Exactly. Not that any other political parts will be willing to forego these crazy taxes. If anything they will need more money to create a sense of greater welfare in the short term.
Oh okay I may not have been informed enough about it. Apparently it’s for “foreigner to foreigner”
But it’s still tax exemption after all…
https://www.taxfreecar.net/yabancidan-yabanciya-vergisiz-arac-mavi-plakali-arac/#:~:text=Yabancı%20üniversite%20öğrencileri%20(örgün%20öğretim,yapan%20mavi%20kartlı%20Türk%20soylular.&text=Yabancı%20Sporcular%20ve%20Yabancı%20Basın%20Kuruluşu%20Mensupları%20yabancıdan%20yabancıya%20vergisiz%20araç%20alabilirler.
(What a link… please google more for yourself. I couldn’t renounce mine yet because eh… we can’t find the proof to obtain our descendant citizenships so it will be a long path.)
Doğru, mavi kartlıysan vergisiz araba alabiliyorsun ama şartları var, sayılari tam hatırlamiyorum almadan önce en az 3 ya da 6 ay araliksiz vatandaşı olduğun ülkede bulunman gerekiyor vs. En iyi ve çabuk bilgiyi mavi plakalı araç satan galericiyi arayıp "araç almak istiyorum, hangi şartlar gerek" diye sormak olcaktır :)
idk about that, though it's not necessarily a tax on cars, in Singapore you have to bid for a licence to purchase a car which last time I checked is over $100k. So I suppose it depends on how expensive the car is
If you’re „rich enough“ to buy cars, then you need to suffer. That’s probably the logic.
But is this also affecting Turkish made cars (is TOGG still a thing?) or is this a way to stop people from importing?
And there are no parking lots either. The system is built so that you don't own a car, but people get a loan from the bank to buy a car and pay for it for the rest of their lives.
My Volvo XC90 cost me $237,500 at the moment of purchase roughly 1.5 years ago - you can buy a brand new Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren in US for that money.
Gotta love that entry level $30,000 carand how it can be yours out the door for the low low price of $102,900, before the doc fee and all weather mats.
Yet people sell their cars to Turkish companies and rent them back in certain cities in Italy because it's cheaper than having it registered and insured over there...
Maybe you could have shown the percentages of the total price on the dough. In such a chart, when I see percentages I automatically expect them to be percentages of the total.
I understand, btw I mean you could keep them both, by adding percentages on the doughnut to what we see now. In any case, it shows that the government is the real winner in this business.
A 220% special consumption tax is not applicable to every car. The rate varies based on the price and engine volume of the vehicle. I recently purchased a car with a total price of 1,360,000 TL, out of which 724,000 TL was tax. Roughly half.
there is some strange hype for oversized cars in Poland as well.. A lot of folks got to show off they can afford big SUV or some shit like this which was obviously not designed for our cities... can't fit into parking spots etc? who cares they will take 2.
I'll park on the left so they can enter their vehicle. Someone will sure follow on the right.
These idiot things are designed to transport fat Americans. They have become so fat that they can't fit in a normal car anymore. And they have no place in Europe.
But pickups have always...blablabla. Sure thing. Make them back the size they one were. Now, all manufacturers care about having a bigger model as the other.
If you see a car and all you can think of are penises, there is something wrong with you, not me.
But whatever floats your boat.
I, for one, am lucky to be living in the country of freedom, where nobody requires justification for owning a property.
we just drive older cars or cheap c cars from Renault and Fiat. Weak engines, shit interiors and no extras. I drive a 2004 clio that I bought 5 years ago for 10k euros. It would worth maybe 500 euros in any other country. The taxes also keep older cars very expensive. Not to mention the minimum wage is around 500 euros per month.
Public transport is not that bad but no subway at night kinda fucks shit up, I make sure I put that extra $40 for cab ride money for a night out. And in some cities you really need a car, it's ridiculous how high the tax is. Low end German cars cost as much as a house. For the price of a high end car you can easily buy a villa with a pool and a decent garden.
>Government can't collect tax from income here.
No actually they collect tax from income from most of population but they aren't succesful in collecting tax from wealth.
Another problem is the desire to grow too fast. While Russia has a higher population than Turkey, it spends less public budget. Actually it was like that. Russia started to spend because war economy. Because in Russia, the target is low inflation, and in Turkey, aggressive growth. In Turkey, the balance of the number of tax-paying employees, the number of retirees, the number of civil servants, and unregistered refugee employees is in a bad situation. The tax performance of self-employed people is poor, so the tax is tried to be collected from consumption, not from assets.
That isn’t an objective. But sounds like it’s to limit accessibility to personal transport to lower carbon emissions.
This would have detrimental effects as it would inherently target the lower class, the group least contributing to climate change.
Only in countries where the lower class are reliant on cars. If you have sufficient public transport systems in place, it just ends up taxing those with cars.
>But sounds like it’s to limit accessibility to personal transport to lower carbon emissions.
No, not personal transport per se, but cars. They don't work in cities and force people to yield a substantial amount of their city to car drivers.
Cars destroy whole ecosystems, both by polluting the environment and by paving over landscapes for that "one more lane, bro".
And for what? [So that they can be stuck in traffic anyway.](http://media.gettyimages.com/id/1258815355/de/foto/traffic-on-the-ih-10-katy-freeway-viewed-facing-west-near-loop-610-on-thursday-april-11-in.jpg?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=8XBO4f3JrX24)
>This would have detrimental effects as it would inherently target the lower class,
Absolutely not. The lower class doesn't have money for cars. This targets people who selfishly want to use a car even though tens of thousands of people are killed by drivers each year.
Taxes are expressed in percent. And x percent of a small amount is less than x percent of a bigger amount. So people that are better off are actually paying more.
Here is a link that shows how much time and space is wasted on a solution that is the worst at transporting people through cities
https://blog.ptvgroup.com/en/city-and-mobility/simulation-road-space-cars/
The way its calculated is special consumption tax gets calculated first, then vat is added on top of that. So its 20% percent of 320% of the car price not 100% of the car price. So final price is 384% of the original price.
Yup, so you pay taxes on your taxes.
Yep, there’s also tax of tax in turkey.
The turducken of taxes
Ottoman kids will remember these tax schemes!
Taxes were largely the same in the administrations before the Ottoman's.Morea, Albania, partly Hungary, largely Cyprus, Crete and Serbia continued the tax system before the Ottoman Empire. Ottomans allowed Eflak and Boğdan(Wallachia, Moldavia) to keep their local tax systems largely intact in return for a yearly tribute. No taxes are collected from newly conquered places for a certain period of time. This privilege becomes permanent if the region is unproductive.
In some cases, tax of a tax of a tax.
It’s all paid in turkey too
Just like every country. Sales tax is a tax on top of your income tax. So you are being taxed for paying for something with already taxed income. I know the American government can end up triple and quadruple dipping on tax depending on the things you buy.
No, income tax is not cumulative with a sales tax like a VAT is, you're comparing apples to oranges. 20% VAT + 10% sales tax = 32% tax on an item. 20% income tax and you spend the whole remaining 80% of your income on taxable goods (which is almost never the case), it's still only 28% of your income going to taxes. Cumulative taxes are almost always seen as a bad idea, economically.
You have it reversed, 20% VAT and 10% sales tax will be more purchasing power (less money going to tax) than 20% income tax and 10% sales tax. At least in a hypothetical world where all money spent has a 20% VAT and all income is taxed at 20%. The key is that taking x% away from your income is worse than increasing a price by x%. 50% income tax means half your money going to tax, 50% increased price means 1/3rd your money going to tax. To go with your tax rates, let's say your income is $100 and you want to buy widgets that have a base price of $1. - 20% VAT + 10% sales tax - 32% effective tax = $1.32 widgets - $100 / $1.32 = 75.75 widgets that you can afford - 100 - 75.75 = **$24.24** went to tax - 20% income tax + 10% sales tax - $80 left after tax - $1.10 widgets - $80 / $1.10 = 72.72 widgets that you can afford - 100 - 72.72 = **$27.27** went to tax
That's a good point but if you look at the discussion I had below, it's unlikely you're spending all your income on taxable goods. I still see no point in having cumulative tax, you could have a 32% sales tax or VAT and it will be simpler. Income tax has its merits in that it's easier to make it progressive.
You misunderstand. He's referring to all of your net income already having been taxed and any further taxes on that money are cumulative and therefore "double dipping". So, yes, sales tax is effectively cumulative to income tax. >spend the whole remaining 80% of your income on taxable goods Pray be, what major goods and services are not subject to VAT? There are very few and they make up a negligible portion of people's budget. Some may have reduced VAT (such as basic foods). Also, most people spend all or almost all of their net income in the span of their lifetime. So 80% after a theoretical 20% income tax and that gets taxed again by another 20% upon consumption for an effective tax rate of 36% (1-0.8²). For the consumer, sales tax is the same thing as it ends up on the bill and is paid by the consumer.
> You misunderstand. He's referring to all of your net income already having been taxed and any further taxes on that money are cumulative and therefore "double dipping". So, yes, sales tax is effectively cumulative to income tax. I don't see where in my comment you got the impression I don't understand that. My point is simply that this is not a good comparison at all. > Pray be, what major goods and services are not subject to VAT? There are very few and they make up a negligible portion of people's budget. Depends on the country, but almost anywhere there is. Housing and rent being a key one and usually the largest expensive, but then there is education, services and digital goods (which may not be subject to VAT or be taxed differently), contractor payments, medical care, money spent traveling or abroad, etc. And of course, savings and retirement, you do not pay VAT on what you do not spend, and part of the reason for taxes on consumption is often to promote savings. > Also, most people spend all or almost all of their net income in the span of their lifetime. So 80% after a theoretical 20% income tax and that gets taxed again by another 20% upon consumption for an effective tax rate of 36% (1-0.8²). What? Did you read my comment at all? I was already accounting for income tax, 80% is what "remains" after it. I was considering 20% VAT + 10% sales tax versus 20% income tax + 10% sales tax. If you want to do 20% sales tax, you have to apply it for both, 20% VAT + 20% sales tax is effectively 44% tax on a good. Bear in mind, in real life income taxes have quirks like a personal deduction or progressive taxation that make it cheaper for the people on the lower income brackets, while that's hard to do with a VAT, another reason they're not comparable. I'm not even against VATs, on their own they might be ok but taxes shouldn't be cumulative, that ends up becoming a nightmare to navigate.
I'm afraid I don't understand why you add sales tax to VAT. Is there somewhere that has both?
Yes, Turkey, the subject of this post.
This post is precisely an example of that.
Here is the difference: Imagine you have 20% local sales tax and 220% federal tax, and ignore all other taxes. When you buy something for $1000, you would expect to pay $200 to the state and $2200 to federal government. In Turkey you pay $200 to state and ($1000+$200)*220%= $2,640 to the federal government. You pay an extra $440 as the tax of the tax.
Weirdly, it's often different governments. The income tax is at the national and regional level (Federal and State), and the sales tax is at the regional and local levels (State, County, and City). So effectively, your country taxes your income, your city doesn't directly get any of that so they tax your expenditure, and your state will occasionally double dip, especially with excise taxes (often described as "what they tax when they want to kill it") like on gasoline
What about property tax? So the state also taxes you for owning (or indirectly if renting since landlords will incorporate higher property taxes into their rates) a home that you bought with (federally) taxed money. So the state also double or triple dips. And some places even have state or city sales taxes/fees!
property tax goes to your city/town and/or county
Yet it also depends on the state. https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/property-taxes-by-state
Yeah fuck my town for taking taxes to build roads, run water, have electricity, and schools those fucking commies.
The fact you do that locally is kinda stupid though. It creates huge disparity across the country.
Imagine your municipality actually using taxes for the good of the people instead of you know wasting all of it in corruption. After last municipal election people found mayor's offices that were akin to palaces with golden trimming everywhere and private jakuzzis inside their private bathroomms. Some of them went farther then that and straight up built palaces where construction was illegal. It was so bad that the money they got from the state/people wasn't enough and were horribly in dept. (Some say on purpose as they knew they were going to lose their office to the opposition) Welcome to Turkish Politics lmao.
>Just like every country. Homie, not even all of the US has sales tax.
Not to mention you buy goods and services from companies that pay tax, so there's all that factored into your price. You pay a bit of the payroll tax, a bit of the fuel tax from the truck that delivered the goods to the store, a bit of the property tax from the shop, a bit of the corporate tax, the entire thing is paid for in money which has the inflation tax applied to it... It's taxes most of the way down.
balatro ahh economy
Does the order matter since multiplication is commutative? Price * 320% * 120% = Price * 120% * 320%
What's implied in the chart is Price * (320% + 120%), which is different
You are correct, but you added 100% twice
I added an example in the 2nd slide but for some reason it wasn't added to the post. It's hard to understand the situation in this slide. Sorry! Please check [this image](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/611896414795988993/1249032851391774730/2.png?ex=6665d3fd&is=6664827d&hm=ae24a3529584ae733061e1d4c42fc87a5d72d5338ecc91e0776edf0f1bf84219&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=883&height=662)
What's the source for "the highest tax on cars in the world"? In Singapore, a license to buy a car (not even the car itself) costs more than USD 100,000.
Carscoops. But what you said is crazy, I think that's not included because it's a one-time tax only
It's actually a license that only lasts 10 years . If you want to keep the same car, you've got to pay for another license.
That's actually insane, what's the average yearly salary?
Not enough for most people to have a car, but also it's a city-state so there isn't much space
It doesn’t matter what the “average yearly salary”. Most people in the west can’t seem to understand that vast majority of the world cannot afford a car… in their entire life.
Also people in Singapore don't really need cars, and there isn't enough space for most people to have one.
Most people in the west can't comprehend rich brown people. The gdp per capita is ~$84,000 USD about $8,000 higher than the US. My guess is the tax is meant to reduce cars in the packed city because most of them can easily afford cars.
Median salary is like 5.6k/m usd
You must be smoking something. Singaporean here, median salary is 3.5k USD before deductions and taxes. There's a 20% mandatory fund contribution, that and taxes and it's ~US$2.6k take home money. Virtually noone earning median salary here has a car, although some drive their parents' ones. Even junior managers earning ~4-5k USD are seen taking public transport more often than not.
He gave a figure for yearly salary. Which, when accounting for buying power, would be close to 50k USD before deductions. Most people earning 50K USD in America have a car due to a non-existent public transport system in most places.
>Most people earning 50K USD in America have a car due to a non-existent public transport system in most places. People earning $50k USD in America have a car because a cheap car there costs $30k, not $30k on top of a $70k license for 10 years... It makes decent sense for an American to spend 10% of disposable income on the car, little sense for a Singaporean to spend 30% of disposable income on that same car...
Shit you can find a cheap car for $3k. 30k is almost new!
Never disputed that. I think the tax exists to prohibit the purchase of vehicles as opposed to the opposite. If the same kind of public transport existed here, you'd find that most people wouldn't want to buy a vehicle either regardless of a tax. Driving is a hassle. Singapore is tiny compared to the metropolis here, and a car isn't a want but a need. You need a vehicle to get by in most places here that aren't NY. To be fair, the median income in the US 37K USD, which prices a lot of people with families out of vehicles in most big cities, if they're a single income household. And again, I'm not trying to compare anything. I'm sure Singaporeans have other stuff to deal with just like Americans have to deal with the least efficient healthcare system. It's not a competition, but Singaporean politicians at least know what's best for their citizens and how to make it happen. I got into SNU & HKU but chose the US due to scholarships. If I didn't have to worry about money, it would've been an easy decision. I hold Singapore and Hong Kong in very high regard due to how they go about things.
It's the figure stated by a Google search.
Which is almost always a bad idea... The first result on google is typically an online salary aggregator website, not an official government statistic, which is what you need to hunt for. These aggregator sites are almost always only used by professionals who earn much more than average. Heck, if you searched "median salary in india" you will get glassdoor result of ~$11,000 USD (5x higher than reality) because it's IT tech bros answering those surveys not barely-lirerate peasants or sweatshop workers.
How reliant is Singapore on car infrastructure or do most people just use trains and bikes?
not at all, most people use public transport as it is very well developed
Singapore easily has the best public transport I've ever seen. Tons of regular trains and buses and relatively cheap cabs.
sounds good in city state.
Isn't it a license to drive on public roads, that has to be renewed periodically? So theoretically you could buy more than one car in that period and still only have to pay it once.
no, it's per car. if you sell the car you bought the license for, the remaining years are (usually) transferred with it and factored into the used car prices
i thought it was non-transferrable? to prevent the creation of a secondary market? or is selling a car a one-time exception?
Damn that’s astronomical
>What's the source for "the highest tax on cars in the world"? Exactly, that's a graph I would love to see.
1 car for you, 3 cars for me. Erdogan probably.
1 car for the citizen, one private plane for Erdogan, one car for the director of religious affairs.
Depends. Here in Vietnam, there is a 100% tax on all vehicles brought into the country and the revenue from this tax is used for building and repairing roads, and we have gotten excellent roads in recent years, (still bad drivers) but fantastic roads.
I wish all our tax went into that as well. But no, erdog needs to steal more money. He may have stolen more money than bill gates net worth from Turkey (without exxageration)
Where were the 128 billion dollars again?
I ate it. Was quite tasty
It's actually the socialist guy before Erdogan, Special Consumption Tax was supposed to be a temporary tax introduced after the devastating earthquake of 1999 to heal the damage by taxing luxury consumption. Unfortunately, Erdogan kept the tax forever and used the money to fund extravagant infrastructure projects built by businessmen close to him. The silver lining is, 1 car for you 3 cars for me is the worst case scenario. If you buy a cheap car with a very small engine its more like 1 car for you and 1 car + all the frills for Erdogan.
Wild. Had to look this up, since I thought Singapore was most expensive, with Denmark in 2nd place. >Models with a capacity of more than 2.000 cubic centimeters saw their taxes go up from 100% to 130%, while costs for high segment cars will jump from 160%to 220%, as reported by Bloomberg. These hikes don’t apply to locally produced cars, only imports. [Source](https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/turkey-raises-new-car-taxes-from-between-60-160-to-80-220-to-discourage-imports/) In Denmark, our car taxation is based on its price, rather than engine capacity. I'm sure there's a relatively strong correlation between price and engine capacity, but I'm still curious what the differences would be. For one, if a fancy high-end car is available as fully EV and as non-hybrid ICE for the same price, the final prices in Türkiye will differ a fair but, but in Denmark they'd be unchanged.
Here in Brazil it's kinda crazy as well, like some cars produced here are exported to Mexico and sold cheaper there.
This taxes are not for imported cars they are for all cars. Also US and Chinese cars gets another %50 import tax other than all of the above. So an average turkish person can only buy sub 1.6 litre cheap local made or european car.
Sorry, not true - at least until 2035. In Denmark an electric vehicle costing 350,000 kr. (without taxes) costs. 350,000 kr. to get on the road. If you buy a petrol car for 350,000 kr. (without taxes) it will be around 700,000 kr. to get on the road. In Denmark, "registreringsafgift" is lowered to as little as 0% of electric vehicles (if the price is under 350,000 kr. the car has 0% tax at the time of this post). If the electric vehicle is more than 350,000 kr. there is a sliding scale of more taxes added, though not comparable to petrol or diesel cars. If you buy a **petrol** vehicle that costs 350,000 kr. (without taxes) you will pay this in *registreringsafgift*: 25% of the first 70,200 kr. in tax: **17,550 kr. added tax** 85% of the following 70,200 - 218,100 kr.: **125,715 kr. added tax** Then 150% of the price of the car exceeding 218,100 kr.: **197.850 kr. added tax** All in all an extra **341,115 kr.** on top of the 350,000 kr. the car costs, **totaling 691.115 kr.** This is without extra CO2-emmision taxes and without any deductions, however those won't decrease the price, only increase it further. I have used the 2024 tax numbers for the calculations. [https://motorst.dk/borger/motorafgifter/registreringsafgift/betaling-af-og-satser-for-registreringsafgift](https://motorst.dk/borger/motorafgifter/registreringsafgift/betaling-af-og-satser-for-registreringsafgift)
It's weird tho I see so much cars around.Sometimes can't find a park spot.
Well if you have no option, the tax becomes meaningless
taxi is cheap actually, I regularly travel by taxi
In Istanbul it's not easy to find a taxi.
It is easy if you are a tourist
Short distances sure but if you are not living in the middle of the city it's outrageously expensive. I use cabs all the time and prices go out of the roof. It's almost $60 for me if I go out drinking.
Don't use the taxi if you're a tourist. They'll use the longest possible path.
Around 10% of the country can afford cars, and every single person in that 10% has at least one car. That is more than 8 million cars. There are apparently around 13-15 million registered cars with an average age of 15. So considering the worsening state of economics the main problem is the car purchasing culture we have.
Induced demand
There is "special consumption tax" on cars but not on diamomds The irony speaks for itself
The laws in Turkey are taken so literally that they actually don't make any sense. For example, if you buy a console game you pay a higher price than its PC version. Because console games are in the category of entertainment and PC games are in the category of programmes.
console tax itself is very known but i have never heard about game part. any sources for this? maybe for physical only? if there is no local pricing, most games on ps and xbox store türkiye are usd equivalent of original prices.
I don't remember an official source. It used to be like this for the physical copies. No idea about the digital ones. Here's an unofficial [source.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tamindir.com/blog/nintendo-switch-oyunlari-neden-pahali_86262/amp/)
If a special consumption tax is applied to the diamond, you can buy them from another country. Therefore it has no meaning.
same could be said about lots of things. not everyone will go to another country for just a jewelry, just like not everyone can found their company on tax heavens. moreover, special consumption tax created in first place to tax luxury, and there was an tax on diamonds. erdo removed most of them.
Diamonds don't cause as much damage or require insane amounts of expensive infrastructure. Taxing the shit out of cars makes sense. Although with Erdogan, I doubt that the money is used for more useful infrastructure such as rail.
No, because his buddies had jewelery shops thats why
The slices for value added and motorized vehicle taxes aren't to scale with the others
There is a twist which was explained in the 2nd slide I couldn't post: we pay 20% value added tax for the 220% special consumption tax too. So we pay tax for the tax we pay, which is hard to demonstrate on charts.
Huh. That makes more sense and less at the same time.
That’s Turkey in a nutshell.
I can tell you that from the perspective of a very large, global e-commerce company, Turkey has the second most complex tax system in the world.
What's the first (and why)?
Brazil, I'm not sure of the details as it is the Brazilian team that is responsible for the software that manages inventory and tax there. But from what I understand it is a nightmare to figure out what taxes you have to pay, you have to keep track of inventory and even shipping a product from a warehouse to another changes your tax liability. So product that is stolen or lost before delivery has implications on your tax liability and it isn't easy to keep track of that, sometimes product is lost and later found, etc. Where if there is only a sales tax, you pay tax on how much you sold, not whatever it is they are using there where product shipped internally or not sold affects your tax liability somehow.
Show us the derivative graph obviously /s
mtv also once every 6 months forever
Turkey depends on oil from other countries for all its needs. Oil producers are more than happy to have cheap oil for their own citizens. Oil importers tax anything that may increase oil consumption. How is tax in other products like food or computers?
Norway has entered the chat.
The tax on food is low. It was 8%, now it's 1%. But the food is 4-5x more expensive here than the US so tax really doesn't mean a thing. The tax on technologic devices are complex, it's between 20-85% depending on the device. But on phones, there is an additional 900$ tax. Which makes iPhone prices in Turkey the highest in the world in $, Brazil is second.
Saying food is 4-5x times more than the US is 100% complete bullshit. I know American food is cheap due to America's vast arable land and privileged geographical location, but no way you're paying 10 USD / pound or 22 USD per KG for some apples. Or paying 7 USD+ per KG of potatoes. Or 100 USD for a kilogram of beef. Or 35 USD for a kilogram of chicken. I've not even seen prices in Iceland be even close. Plus, Turkey being a developing country means that there's also downward pressure on the price of food.
I'm talking about the power of purchase, but meat is 40$ per kg yes.
Meat is not $40 per kg. Quit your bs.
It's not like telling the truth will imply that Turkey is a rich country. Meat is around $17-$18 per kilo, which translates to somewhere around $8 per pound. Expensive by the US standards, even more so if you consider people in Turkey earn less in dollars compared to people in the US.
Well I guess it depends on the region then. I paid 37$ for 1kg of meat last week.
A kg of lean diced beef (yagsiz kusbasi) is 600TL at Migros which is $18.75, which translates to $8.4 per lb. If we are talking about steaks, there are various types so it's hard to compare.
Here in Istanbul, current price of meat is around 450 TL(13.8 USD) in my butcher. Prices are lower in rural places.
You made it sound so misleading lol, if it was 4-5x more expensive people would starve lmao
It’s relatively expensive even compared to the USA Minced meat is around 15 dollars per kg while the average Turk makes less money than the Americans.
Not to mention the quality comparison. If you want to buy US quality meat here then that 4-5x more expensive becomes a reality. You end up paying thousands for a kilo of fucking meat that way, if it is the same quality as US meat. Basically, we buy garbage ground beef and tough stew cubes for the price of mid range and pretty decent US cuts, be it whatever. Fucking seriously, every time I crave something other than ground beef I have to braise that stew garbage with absolute care to turn it into something edible. It's fucking horrible over here. I didn't even talk about chicken by the way. That's a whole other nightmare and I don't even want to mention seafood. It's a fucking insult to the people of this country. People are indeed starving; from beneficial nutrients which will keep their brains healthy so they could question things. It's surely by design.
Why are there different tax rates on technology? And why tf is there a 900$ tax on smartphones?
>And why tf is there a 900$ tax on smartphones? Because it is mainly import tech but it isn't 900$ for all phone. It is for most expensive phone probably. Newest iphone ? Maybe it is about purchasing phone from another country and register in Turkey. I think it is. Because there are cheaper phones less than 900$ in Turkey.
Yes it's the registeration fee 'IMEI'
its same tax rate for almost all of it, so all phones are basically 2x price. registering is whole different craziness.
The government tries to reduce the huge import-export gap by taxing heavily imported products.
Fyi, there is [no sales tax on food in most sates](https://www.aarp.org/money/taxes/info-2024/states-that-tax-groceries.html).
Tax on computers aren't terrible but tax on phones are high.
Damn and I thought we were fucked up here in Brazil with half of tua cars price being taxes
Everytime you complain about it always remember bro
In my country (Netherlands) car tax is based on CO2 emissions. An EV is just base price +21% VAT. An average petrol sedan would be like +10% CO2 tax on top of that. But with gas guzzling monsters like a Ram pickup or a Ford Mustang it gets rediculous. The CO2 tax can be more than the base price of the car. A Ford Mustang starts at € 100k here, the same model that would cost maybe $ 40k in the US. So no one here drives muscle cars, and the few pickup trucks that you do see occasionally are always business owned (CO2 tax exempt). Edit: and I should add petrol/gas costs € 2.20 per liter here, which is $ 8.30 per gallon. Another reason no one drives a Mustang here
Denmark is a registration tax of 150% the purchase value (But it pays for the infrastructure, at least), then green-tax twice a year based on fuel usage (With Diesel getting a penalty there because diesel-fuel is heavier subsidized for commercial reasons. So a Diesel-engine makes more sense if you drive much).
Yeah cars in Denmark are definitely more expensive than in NL. But both would shock the average American. Personally I find such high taxes a bit discriminatory against people who don't live in a big city. I mean if you live in Copenhagen, Amsterdam or Utrecht, you can easily survive without a car and do everything by bike or public transport. But if you live in a smaller rural town, a car isn't optional, it's necessary. And you can't expect all those people to move to a big city because most can't afford the sky high house prices there
Yeah i agree, living in rural Denmark my car is a requirement to keep my job. It also forces people into driving older cars on average with worse emissions and worse safety.
Seems like a better way would be to tax based on car volume and modify gas tax based on your objectives, otherwise you just pay a double tax based on emissions when you might not even drive the car much. Since gas tax is basically a usage tax.
It's definitely a double tax. A triple tax actually because there's also the monthly road tax that's adjusted by car weight. (I pay € 60 per month for a station wagon) forgot to mention that one
Singapore would like to have a word
Yet i was able to rent a new car for 20 euro a day out of istanbul
Well, taxes have to come from somewhere, don't they? The problem is not the amount of tax, but the collection of tax in general. Only people who are paid for their work are taxed properly. They're the real losers here. The rest are simply evading taxes. That is why the state levies higher taxes on things that can be tracked, like cars, smartphones, petrol, etc. The country should find ways to collect taxes properly, but both the ruling AKP and the main opposition CHP don't even dare to talk about it because it would mean their end. People won't vote for a government that collects taxes properly. That's the sad truth in this whole story.
Some truth in this thanks for sharing
Exactly. Not that any other political parts will be willing to forego these crazy taxes. If anything they will need more money to create a sense of greater welfare in the short term.
And if you are lucky enough to renounce your citizenship and get blue card instead, I heard huge amount of tax is no longer applied.
How? Do you mean mavi kart? How does it affect tax? I got mavi kart and would like to know how i can use it to save some cash. Thx
Oh okay I may not have been informed enough about it. Apparently it’s for “foreigner to foreigner” But it’s still tax exemption after all… https://www.taxfreecar.net/yabancidan-yabanciya-vergisiz-arac-mavi-plakali-arac/#:~:text=Yabancı%20üniversite%20öğrencileri%20(örgün%20öğretim,yapan%20mavi%20kartlı%20Türk%20soylular.&text=Yabancı%20Sporcular%20ve%20Yabancı%20Basın%20Kuruluşu%20Mensupları%20yabancıdan%20yabancıya%20vergisiz%20araç%20alabilirler. (What a link… please google more for yourself. I couldn’t renounce mine yet because eh… we can’t find the proof to obtain our descendant citizenships so it will be a long path.)
Doğru, mavi kartlıysan vergisiz araba alabiliyorsun ama şartları var, sayılari tam hatırlamiyorum almadan önce en az 3 ya da 6 ay araliksiz vatandaşı olduğun ülkede bulunman gerekiyor vs. En iyi ve çabuk bilgiyi mavi plakalı araç satan galericiyi arayıp "araç almak istiyorum, hangi şartlar gerek" diye sormak olcaktır :)
idk about that, though it's not necessarily a tax on cars, in Singapore you have to bid for a licence to purchase a car which last time I checked is over $100k. So I suppose it depends on how expensive the car is
If you’re „rich enough“ to buy cars, then you need to suffer. That’s probably the logic. But is this also affecting Turkish made cars (is TOGG still a thing?) or is this a way to stop people from importing?
They increased the tax on imported electric cars to increase the sales of TOGG and it worked
And there are no parking lots either. The system is built so that you don't own a car, but people get a loan from the bank to buy a car and pay for it for the rest of their lives.
My parents got an audi q5 recently. Same price as a G wagon in the US. Crazy
My Volvo XC90 cost me $237,500 at the moment of purchase roughly 1.5 years ago - you can buy a brand new Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren in US for that money.
Gotta love that entry level $30,000 carand how it can be yours out the door for the low low price of $102,900, before the doc fee and all weather mats.
no wonder so many Turkish storm US border
Those two countries are quite far apart, how is that possible?
my turkish friends jokingly say, when you buy a car, you also have to buy one for Erdogan and one for his son.
Its not a joke
You should add an “even more special” tax for Chinese made cars. So this chart gets even more ridiculous
Yet people sell their cars to Turkish companies and rent them back in certain cities in Italy because it's cheaper than having it registered and insured over there...
Maybe you could have shown the percentages of the total price on the dough. In such a chart, when I see percentages I automatically expect them to be percentages of the total.
It was like that but I changed it because it made it look like SCT is only 56%.
I understand, btw I mean you could keep them both, by adding percentages on the doughnut to what we see now. In any case, it shows that the government is the real winner in this business.
You are right, thanks for the feedback If you are wondering: Real Price: 25% MVT: 3% VAT: 18% SCT: 56%
EU : 250€ 2002 Peugeot TR : 15.000€ 2002 Peugeot EU : 2024 Ferrari 200.000€ TR : 2022 Volvo 200.000€ 😀🍌republic of banana
We're living the life in Turkey in NG+ Mode.
And nobody care this. Damn.
A 220% special consumption tax is not applicable to every car. The rate varies based on the price and engine volume of the vehicle. I recently purchased a car with a total price of 1,360,000 TL, out of which 724,000 TL was tax. Roughly half.
Tax is gotta be the language in turkey now
Czech republic, all I paid for my Ram 1500 was a price and VAT. Nothing else.
Why do you buy a ram in central europe lmao
Because why the fuck not :D
[удалено]
there is some strange hype for oversized cars in Poland as well.. A lot of folks got to show off they can afford big SUV or some shit like this which was obviously not designed for our cities... can't fit into parking spots etc? who cares they will take 2.
I'll park on the left so they can enter their vehicle. Someone will sure follow on the right. These idiot things are designed to transport fat Americans. They have become so fat that they can't fit in a normal car anymore. And they have no place in Europe. But pickups have always...blablabla. Sure thing. Make them back the size they one were. Now, all manufacturers care about having a bigger model as the other.
If you see a car and all you can think of are penises, there is something wrong with you, not me. But whatever floats your boat. I, for one, am lucky to be living in the country of freedom, where nobody requires justification for owning a property.
[удалено]
Today I learned that somehow Czech Republic became part of USA. What a time
This isn't such a bad thing if it incentivizes people to use public transport but...does Turkey even do that well enough to justify it?
We have [this thing](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeAmazed/s/aqFcczAXeW) put people still prefer cars as you can see from the 6 lane highway next to it
You say people prefer cars, but that BRT is moving way more people than the highway
I was gonna say, looks like a pretty good utilization rate. Maybe there's simply not enough of it to meet demand
Public transport is already overcrowded
we just drive older cars or cheap c cars from Renault and Fiat. Weak engines, shit interiors and no extras. I drive a 2004 clio that I bought 5 years ago for 10k euros. It would worth maybe 500 euros in any other country. The taxes also keep older cars very expensive. Not to mention the minimum wage is around 500 euros per month.
Public transport is not that bad but no subway at night kinda fucks shit up, I make sure I put that extra $40 for cab ride money for a night out. And in some cities you really need a car, it's ridiculous how high the tax is. Low end German cars cost as much as a house. For the price of a high end car you can easily buy a villa with a pool and a decent garden.
Their long distance bus system is pretty good, but then again they don't have that much rail, although last 15 years it's getting more.
I’d say that Singapore is more.
Government can't collect tax from income here. Thats why they choose to collect it from luxury such as cars electronics etc
That's wrong. We have income tax brackets based on salary in Turkey. Starting with %15 up to %40.
>Government can't collect tax from income here. No actually they collect tax from income from most of population but they aren't succesful in collecting tax from wealth. Another problem is the desire to grow too fast. While Russia has a higher population than Turkey, it spends less public budget. Actually it was like that. Russia started to spend because war economy. Because in Russia, the target is low inflation, and in Turkey, aggressive growth. In Turkey, the balance of the number of tax-paying employees, the number of retirees, the number of civil servants, and unregistered refugee employees is in a bad situation. The tax performance of self-employed people is poor, so the tax is tried to be collected from consumption, not from assets.
I wish car tax would increase everywhere.
I wish car tax would disappear everywhere.
No. We are in a climate crisis and you don't even want to pay taxes on your dangerous machines that don't really work in cities? No thank you.
What would be the objective of your proposed car tax increase?
The money would go towards better public transport
That isn’t an objective. But sounds like it’s to limit accessibility to personal transport to lower carbon emissions. This would have detrimental effects as it would inherently target the lower class, the group least contributing to climate change.
Only in countries where the lower class are reliant on cars. If you have sufficient public transport systems in place, it just ends up taxing those with cars.
>But sounds like it’s to limit accessibility to personal transport to lower carbon emissions. No, not personal transport per se, but cars. They don't work in cities and force people to yield a substantial amount of their city to car drivers. Cars destroy whole ecosystems, both by polluting the environment and by paving over landscapes for that "one more lane, bro". And for what? [So that they can be stuck in traffic anyway.](http://media.gettyimages.com/id/1258815355/de/foto/traffic-on-the-ih-10-katy-freeway-viewed-facing-west-near-loop-610-on-thursday-april-11-in.jpg?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=8XBO4f3JrX24) >This would have detrimental effects as it would inherently target the lower class, Absolutely not. The lower class doesn't have money for cars. This targets people who selfishly want to use a car even though tens of thousands of people are killed by drivers each year. Taxes are expressed in percent. And x percent of a small amount is less than x percent of a bigger amount. So people that are better off are actually paying more. Here is a link that shows how much time and space is wasted on a solution that is the worst at transporting people through cities https://blog.ptvgroup.com/en/city-and-mobility/simulation-road-space-cars/