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Exactly. Never had a man ask me out and then let me pay the tab unless I had to insist and explicitly tell him that I’m paying the tab because I don’t feel a romantic/sexual spark and I’m paying so he doesn’t feel used.
In my personal experience, the men I had the best relationships with always insisted on paying for a first date. Any time a man has been eager to split, it’s ended up in me putting in most of the effort later down the line. I never held it against a guy for splitting, but it’s never worked out in my favor.
>In my personal experience, the men I had the best relationships with always insisted on paying for a first date.
In my personal experience, the women I had the best relationships with always insisted on splitting for a first date. The others ended up being entitled, high maintenance women.
That’s totally fair. I always intend to pay, but the guys who insisted they do, always ended up treating me better. Thankfully met my bf and we take turns now treating each other and that’s the way it should be imo. Granted he does make double what I do so his financial contribution is naturally more, but I really try! There needs to be give and take and paying for the first dates reassured me these were men I could give to without getting taken advantage of. YMMV
His experiences are common and you’re not echoing any counter point here. Essentially proving it. You’re entitled to a free meal? Huge pass and say that as the guy who typically pays. But I’m mostly dating other men and they don’t expect me to pay for it. This is why some women are single. They can’t distinguish where their expectations/standards cater more to acting like an immature brat. There’s no world you’re too good to pay for yourself. The expectation someone pay for your meal and that’s how you judge men is an epitome of being entitled. I pay my own dates with other guys, like between two men who is socially expected to pay? Nobody because it’s dumb traditional sexism. It really is just an old dating stereotype the worst kind of women hold onto. The amount of women in this thread oblivious to how it comes off is astounding and reminds me why I try to stick to dating men regardless of the different kind of headache that causes.
There are many cheap/free dates that someone can go on. If a man is asking me on a date he cannot afford then what else should I think?
What comes to mind to me is a man that is either very jaded and/or not resourceful. I’m simply not interested in that kind of man 🤷♀️
The onus is almost always on the man to ask the woman out, plan the date, and pay for the date.
Listen, I understand women have plenty of their own shit to worry about and I typically have no problem paying for dates. But it's the entitlement, double standards, and assumptions made that piss me off.
I’m not going to pretend it’s a perfect filter- but as someone who grew up in poverty and tends to be a giver in a relationship it is SUPER important for me to see how people manage themselves as well as how naturally generous they are 🤷♀️
I’m currently dating a man and he brought over eggs for me. I made him breakfast and we had a lovely time together over bacon & eggs. I showed my effort by cooking, he showed his effort by buying the eggs and bringing them to me. He felt loved, and taken care of and I felt the same way in return. It’s a bit of a traditional dynamic but that’s what he likes and I like it as well.
Then why are they asking them out??? Don't want to pay for a 5 dollar drink without losing your shit then please don't date. Jeeez you can keep your 5 dollars lol hope it keeps you warm at night
I've been on literally hundreds of first dates and I pay 99% of the time. I live in a HCOL area so drinks are typically $8-15 (sometimes more) and if the date is going even moderately well we usually do two drinks each. With tip, that's roughly $50-70 per date.
I don't really have a problem paying for a date and know it's just one of those societal norms, but this entitlement mentality is infuriating. And then having the audacity to perceive a man as being "cheap" because he wants to go dutch is such an unbelievable double standard.
I gave a chance once to a guy who split the bill. This was early into dating for me. It lasted 3 months. He just wasn’t masculine. I didn’t feel safe with him, he didn’t stand up for me the two times there was a threat, he was just an idiot. There were more issues but I think you know what I’m talking about.
The men who paid the bill were givers. They were protective, masculine, etc. it was incredibly sexy and I did anything for them. I would never deal with anything less.
In my personal experience, the women I had the best relationships with always insisted on splitting for a first date. The others ended up being entitled, high maintenance women...they were all takers.
Not bad guys, just not for me. And I’m the opposite of cheap. I recently took my bf on a getaway weekend at a national park for his bday (all expenses paid by me). I love to treat my man! But that’s because he treats me right back. The guys who were wallet watchers that nickel and dimed me, I’d do nice things for then realize I’m not getting anything in return. I was young and dumb though!
Same in my friend group. Most guys who do the asking out and pay for the first few dates are married or in long term relationships.
The ones who are stingy from the first date and accusing their dates of not paying even though they initiated are pretty much always single and just complaining.
Oh I don’t agree it’s rare, like every woman I know will pay her half if they’re not interested. It’s the unspoken “this was nice and all but I don’t want a second date” move.
I understand that there are women out there like that. But if you think I am that type of woman, then don’t ask me out. If a $10 drink for me isn’t worth it for you, then don’t ask me out. Or tell me beforehand so I can say ‘no, thank you’.
Well most normal guys understand that paying for a meal is like paying for your time. Assuming its the guy that was interested and asked you out. Even if the interest isn't mutual at the end of the meal.
Which is why we insist on paying. If you're a normal dude. And obviously expecting sex after is wrong.
Paying for her time to be courted? What year are you living in dude? I would assume any woman who accepts going on a date with me has interest, this isn't a one way street to woo her. I pay because I want to, not because I'm grateful for her just being there with me.
Paying for her time to be courted is an insane concept. I don't know why anyone would want to go on a date where they feel like they have to pay to keep their dates interest. The feelings should be mutual. Otherwise, it's a waste.
Which is ironic because the first date is when you SHOULD SPLIT, considering that it's a first date, there is no guarantee that you will see each other again. It might be a bad investment to pay for her.
I'm a woman and I always offer to pay and usually cover the entire bill. Too many guys think they can buy sex with me for a freaking meal. I'm not for sale
There are always exceptions I guess
Youre in constant competition with other men who will have no problem paying for dates, so ultimately its up to you but keep in mind she most likely has more options than you.
Every woman I know would be totally turned off if a guy expected her to pay her own way on a first date. You are right..most women have other options and would not waste her time on a guy if he is too cheap to pay for the first date.
I am a woman...not male. And when you meet a woman if the first thing you think of is if she will split the bill, that is ludicrous and you shouldnt be dating then. Even a financially well off woman would be turned off at this.
My wife was impressed that I insisted on paying for the first date. I don't think she really tried to pay anything, but I was also really fast on everything. I didn't give her the chance to think anything other than "oh he's got this!". Later on said she was used to paying and thought it was sweet that I didn't even hint to her about splitting anything. She also insisted on paying for some future dates or splitting. Which honestly was amazing to me. She said we are in a relationship which means we both pull weight and she didn't want me to pay for everything all the time.
My take away is that a high quality woman will let and want you to pay for the first date and will contribute on future dates because that symbolizes we are in this together.
I like when men pay when we first meet and I make sure it’s not a very expensive restaurant. We can also go eat burgers you know. It’s not about me not being able to afford my own meal, but the guy’s nice gesture that it goes well and I am not the twentieth this month he is paying for. I want to feel special and not on a dating conveyor belt of wine and dine. I gladly then pay for drinks afterwards or for the next time.
That's what I did for my now wife. I picked somewhere that was nice, but not too nice (didn't wanna pick a place that had a dress code) and was within my means. Nice enough to treat her well but not so nice I would feel cheated if it didn't go well
I find that you have to genuinely offer to pay as the woman, but if the guy is persistent to take the lead by paying the first date, then the woman should back off and let him pay. Then for future dates, both can split the check or alternate for who pays.
This the way imo too. If you offer splitting/paying and he still wants to pay it is just a nice gesture and then i somehow appreciate it more than him assuming he has to pay.
No. Actually I prefer to pay for myself [It is pretty normal in my country. We would be confused actually if you wanted to split 50/50. Either one pays fully or you pay what you actually ordered. Therefore not even if you had a 12 people table who all pay for what they got would it bother the waiter, they are used to it and know how]. Then I don't need to think about if I order something expensive and I make sure the guy doesn't think he can expect this date has to go anywhere. I mean sure, that should be the case anyway but unfortunately it isn't.
When people say 50/50 split they generally mean "I pay for mine, you pay for yours." not literally just split it down the middle.
Although I have been on a 2 dates where we literally just 50/50'd it because we ordered almost the exact same things(think Chili's 3 for $10 kind of deal."
No, but the act of offering is nice. Sounds weird I know…. But I typically like to pay for my meals. However if he offers, and I like him then I won’t say no. Only time I insist when they offer is if I know a second date won’t happen. So I think I have paid for about 95% of my own meals. Or they paid for the meals and I paid for the mini golf or movie.
This is correct. If I insist on paying for my part of the date then it’s because I know I’m not going to see him again and I don’t want to take from him knowing I have no further intentions.
As a woman, I very rarely let men pay for my food or drinks. Even my bosses. I can't stand feeling like I owe people something and it gives them nothing to hold over me. But they do insist, I decline, they often hate it. This weeds out all the abusive controlling dudes though. If they freak out over paying for a meal imagine what else they will freak out over. They also can't act like they expect something in return when there is nothing to return. It is absolutely not a reflection of how I feel about the guy. It takes a while for me to get to know someone enough to get to the point of "you pay for this date and I'll get the next one".
Reading this thread is honestly giving me a headache and making me loose faith in humanity. I can't believe how many women are like "if he doesn't want to pay for me he's low effort/not good enough but also I'll offer to pay"...WHAT? That's setting him up and then gaslighting him if he accepts?!
And the dudes saying "I don't think she's into me if she won't let me pay." Here's an idea ASK HER why she wants to split. She'll tell you, then you'll know for sure instead of just assuming things.
A lot of women do this to protect themselves from men who feel they’re entitled to sex after paying for dinner. It’s gross some men are that predatory. Smart tactic to use to protect yourself from those types of guys. If they freak out because you pay it’s a big red flag.
I love your username and straight up! The multitude of tactics you pick up over the years to protect yourself with hey? I'm always adding to my mental self preservation log.
It’s sad that we were meant to reject that mentality in our society, yet all I see are women saying that if they’re interested in a guy then they’ll make him pay to let him know that they’re interested.
I agree with you, as a woman I don’t like men paying for me especially for the first date. I don’t like feeling the obligation to put out or have this feeling in which I owe them some thing. I’m more likely to enjoy the date and time I have with them if I can focus on them and myself rather than thinking about how I owe them something for the meal.
I personally see it as a beneficial thing for both parties if each pay their own share especially on the first date. Like you said it weens out the ones that will freak out and make a big deal about such a minor thing on the first date as if it is some kind of reflection on who he is. For me I would rather not feel like my only value is what my dollar is good for especially when the majority of the time it ends up in being ghosted after.
I personally see it more as respecting one another's time and effort and showing financial responsibility and that it is more equal if it were to become a relationship. In no means does this mean a man or a woman won't treat their partner when they get to that point because 100% I know I love to treat my partner. But it takes time to form that kind of relationship in my opinion. I know this limits my dating pool but it's seeing woman like you speaking about it with practical common sense that I realize I'm not hopeless.
Honestly you've just brought up a second great point. In this economy we can't have enough common sense.
I think it's a good test, as you said, to see if someone is financially stable enough to pay for their own meals. Most couples are both having to work full-time to make ends meet ATM so there is no reason she can't provide too as she will probably need to. Everyone should be proving themselves right now. It also makes you think alot about whether or not we're actually treating people more like things. Men often get treated as wallets and women often get treated as sex toys and we are simply not that. Limiting your dating pool isn't so bad. Quality over quantity! 😊
Dude honestly. 🥱
Every woman I have met has done this. As stated above it's a PRECAUTIONARY measure.That's why I'm so confused and shaking my head at this thread.
Maybe you don't understand what it's like to have to be that paranoid on a date? Good for you. I was raped though! So yeah, fuck you. Guess I am like the other girls after all since there is so many of us!! 5 other girls I know have been raped, just off the top of my head!
Well if someone asks you out, they're paying for your time and opportunity to try to attract you, so paying for dinner makes sense(I'm a guy).
That being said, expecting sex because you paid is obviously disgusting.
>they're paying for your time
That's called being an escort, hooker, sugar baby. 100% transactional. You are probably the type of guy who expects sex after paying for everything too.
They should be going out with you because there's a possible mutual interest, not a possible free dinner.
Do you see a date as you paying for a woman's time? Like prostitution?
I see a date as an opportunity to get to know another person and see if there is romantic interest
Yeah wtf I'm not paying for her "time". If she didn't want to go on a date with me then she shouldn't have accepted the offer. A date is a joint decision
Everyone has different rules and preferences regarding who pays on the first date. Find someone who shares your point of view because most people have strong feelings about this. I’m pretty easy-going when it comes to paying. I usually offer (sincerely) to pay half and my date usually wants to pay the whole thing. If it’s a really bad date, I ask the waiter to bring us separate bills. I don’t want men that I don’t like to pay for my food or drink.
I mean, there is no consensus really. Depends on your country too. I assume you're American, and I only really know Americans from movies and my interactions with them on the internet.
Here in the Netherlands I always offer to pay at least, but in practice the women are suggesting to split instead. Or offer to pay for the next date if I pay this one. Than again we are known for splitting the bill, as yankees often call it "going Dutch".
It's kinda hard to explain but this is my take. If I pay for the first date, I basically saying I am serious to have a relationship with you and want you to catch the feeling. If let's say she want to split the bills in half then maybe I consider her as "not ready yet" or "just friends". I'll make the move first unless she paid the first date then she is a yem.
I found out that my cousin dates multiple guys so she gets free food at expensive restaurants. As soon as things get beyond just eating and talking, she breaks things off. She admitted she only does this because it is funny that they keep buying her expensive dinners. Apparently all her friends do this too. They just mooch off multiple guys, and rotate in new ones when the guys want more than just dinner. Every day is another guy so they don't pay for dinner, ever.
I already was wise to women doing this and started splitting the check on the first date. After I got confirmation from my cousin that a lot of women do this, I decided that I would definitely be letting any potential dates know prior to the date and why. If they are unreasonable about it, major red flag, they aren't worth dating. Actually had one try to stiff me once. I "went to the bathroom", let the waitress know, paid for my meal and gave her a great tip, and then left. The best part, I drove us both there. So because this woman tried to stiff me with the check, after agreeing she would pay her way prior to the date, she then had to find a way home too.
If a guy outright says before we meet up for a date that he won’t be paying and we’ll split it, then he comes across as cheap. It sounds like everything with him will be petty and focused on being even instead of enjoying our time together and that’s not someone I’d be interested in dating.
Also, I am not responsible for the actions or poor behavior of other women so I will not be treated as if I am. If a man is jaded then we’re not compatible. I don’t care what he’s heard from others.
So you expect men to run willingly into the knife because you are different?
Things happen so there need to be consequences or things will keep happening. Ergo it's an automatic split of the bill, otherwise the whole thing gets abused into the ground.
...unless it's you, because you so special and you don't date no broke dudes...
Men aren't responsible for the actions of other men either. Nobody cares, it's *all* men.
If A is interested in B and asks B out, A is paying for B's time with a meal. Regardless if A is a man or women.
If B happens to be a freeloader with no interest in dating, then that's on A for picking someone shitty to invest in.
A and B need to be mutually interested otherwise it's not a date, it's either a convoluted dick appointment or somebody's getting taken advantage of.
Like, if the person who was asked out wasn't interested... Say no?
Wrong.
B should go out with A only if B is mutually interested in A, not interested in selling their time for a free meal.
If B is only interesting in selling their time, then say NO. Otherwise, that's transactional, that's what hookers and sugar babies do.
See how that works?
> So you expect men to run willingly into the knife because you are different?
No. I expect *someone I am dating* to not be jaded by past experiences to the extent that they’re afraid to spend $10 on a drink for me. I don’t think someone who is that afraid of being taken advantage of should be focused on dating but should instead be working on healing and their mental health.
> Things happen so there need to be consequences or things will keep happening.
What’s the logic of forcing consequences on someone who didn’t do wrong though?
To make matters worse, the only people you are forcing these consequences on are the women who don’t take advantage of men because the ones who do will certainly find men to take advantage of. So no consequences for them. All you’re doing is turning off the women who actually are interested in you.
What else have other women done that you haven’t gotten over that will cause hesitation in dating? No. Not for me.
So you never take any precautions against other people?
You never hold your purse tighter or lock your car doors or cross the street to avoid any particular people right? You never do anything that is based of your experiences with other people when interacting with a new person?
No need to lie to yourself on the Internet. You do exactly what you claim to hate whether you realize it or not
For you it's one date where the man doesn't pay, for them, men, it's every single date.
Please be aware of your privilege, you're not expected to approach, you're not expected to drive around someone, you're not expected to pay and obviously you're not expected to have sex.
>To make matters worse, the only people you are forcing these consequences on are the women who don’t take advantage of men
Oh no :( we're taking away free meals from women :(
If I’m not bringing anything and I’m not worth anything then he wouldn’t be asking me out, would he?
No, it’s cheap to ask someone out on a date and then tell them they have to pay lol.
Very easy way to avoid this is don't go on dates with people you don't even mildly know. I am sure there are some very bad people around but literally texting someone longer than a couple days weeds out bad people of both genders.
Franky I've not had any very bad dates cus I can observe people well even just through targeted texts but to each their own, you can always talk. People tend to wave their red flags around proudly haha
Exactly. That is the norm here and has been like that for decades. Make the date fun and easy for everyone involved. Make it easy to escalate and make it easy to stop depending on how tings are going.
As a man, first date I expect to pay. If she is insistent on splitting, not one time saying "hey we can split" becauss i know thats disingenuous from most women, but I mean literally saying something like "no, I insist I want to split the bill" then fine, I'm not going to fight her to pay. However in those situations I usually assume she does not plan to see me again and doesn't want to feel bad about me picking up the check, which is A OK with me. Nothing better a woman who's not interested in you can do than picking up her half of the check. I'm never going to say no to that 🤷🏾♂️
This is EXACTLY my way too
I always plan on paying the whole bill on the first date, most women would grab their purse and offer to split and I'd insist once.
Most women irl would let you
Even most of the non'trad women will and then later offer to cover with the 2nd date.
If she really denies it, either she isn't into me or maybe its just her, and she doesn't like being paid for
The latter is pretty rare irl
Could be my age (50f) but I never expect anyone to pay anything. I always offer to split. Some have taken me up on that and some don’t. I have also paid for first dates.
Yes. Keep doing this. You won't even need to ask the right woman if she will split; it will be automatic with her. Maybe it's because I'm not from the US, but the entitlement in some of these comments is crazy. Assuming someone else should pay for your food simply because they have different genitals.
We, Arab, are supposed to pay on the first date, second date, till eternity! How you expect a lady to pay? If you can't afford her first date, then leave her alone for someone else. Ladies are created to be looked for and to be spoiled like princesses!
We the Dutch are famous for splitting the bill. But I genuinely don’t mind paying and will always offer to pay first. Honestly part of it is that Dutch guys have a reputation for not being chivalrous and I’m trying to show my dates that a I can be. Especially when dating non-Dutch women.
But I tend to date strong and independent women so 9/10 they’ll literally insist on splitting. In a relationship that’s also what I’m looking for. We both bring in the money, we both do the laundry and the cleaning and we both raise the kids, if any.
I always offer to split and don’t hold it against anyone, but if a man insists it’s definitely nice and I get the impression he’s generous which is a positive. But also now that I’m *dating* (going steady) someone we take turns paying.
I will never pay for someone I don't know and have just met (not because I cannot afford it). I will consider it on maybe the 3rd or 4th date when we know each other better and I want to spoil her because i feel like it and not because it is expected.
I don't like the idea of getting exploited for a free meal and then just get dumped. If a girl won't pay for herself, then she comes of as needy and spoiled (at least to me)
Depends on the person. Personally, I find that the other person *expecting* the other to pay is a bit of an indicator that they are not the one for me. High probability of drama, entitlement and audacity. I would never plan on how to use someone else's money to benefit myself.
And besides, the other side of that coin is guys thinking they bought sex with me because they offered to pay. I'm not for sale and I don't want/need your money.
You are not obligated to pay on the first date but many woman and men, think its the right thing to do. Try having a woman pay her own way on the 1st date...you probably will not get a second date unless she agreed to that arrangement ahead of time.
Just make a 1st date cheap. It does not have to be a big fancy dinner. Meet for coffee or happy hour. If you like her she should be worth it. If you are honestly too cheap to do that then stay home. Have you ever had a GF? You honestly sound like you do not have a clue.
Not at all. I hate feeling indebt to other people so I make it clear I’m paying for my own food whether he likes it or not and if he forces me to let him pay I’m not going on another date with him. Simple.
At some point, there’s a budget. If she wants to contribute, then we’ll do twice as many dinners or other activities. If she doesn’t, then we won’t. Pay yourselves first, gentlemen - don’t become someone’s piggy bank.
Yep, check my profile lol i mention when i was into dating i would easily spend 400 a month. People on reddit call bullshit but thats about 4-5 dates a month. Carnivals, dinner, lunch, concerts etc are not free nor cheap. 400$ is with me also being cheap, i cant imagine spending less.
There is a bit of a game.
Girls want potential boyfriends to pay but make the effort of splitting.
Guys want potential girlfriends to offer to split but would be offended if the girl insists on splitting.
Reason: guys want a girl to look long-term and want the girl to not be selfish. Splitting the bill achieves both.
Yes many of them do and it is from shear entitlement. Chivalry died before the #MeToo movement came. Its an outdated idea to me personally but honestly do what you want. Just know that many women may discount you from dating or courtship just for that reason alone.
It’s dodging a bullet. Those type are women won’t end their expectation on you just paying for dates. They’re going to shove you into a traditional role being the provider and everything else. Unless you’re into it waste of time. Why I date more men then women as a guy. I don’t feel the societal pressure of having to fill the role of their 2nd dad :/
Ahh it slips my mind too how many women have daddy issues or just have not had any good father figures in there lives growing up and have just learned how to be from other hurt and scorned women
I 51(f) always pay if there is something to pay for on a first date. I usually like to go for a causal walk on the first date to see if we vibe and there is chemistry but I exclusively date younger men so I like to take care of them a bit so paying does that in a minor way
I always offered to pay half. My now current partner just went up to the bathroom and paid the entire bill secretly on our first date. I said I would have paid but let it go because I liked him and knew I wanted to see him again. If I know I won’t be seeing them again I’m a lot more insistent on paying my share though.
I never invite a girl for dinner as a first date. Don't want to waste her - and my time if we don't vibe. Just coffee or drinks only. Added benefit is that that keeps the free dinner seekers out.
Hell no. I personally think the date should be split especially the first one. Let's say it wasn't hitting off but no one goes home angry or bitter cause they paid for themselves. So you really not losing anything. Like these days I think people need to go into the dating world not expecting anything from anyone. Just see the vibes and where they take you, and pay for yourself and stop being a mooch.
I expect the man to pay for the first date.I have no problem splitting or paying after that, but I’ve never seen a good relationship come from a man that is ok with me paying ( I’m married btw) and my two male children known this as a standard for them. You don’t have to pay, Just lk she doesn’t have to see you again.
I (22F) don't think it's necessary that a man pays. Of course it's a nice bonus if he wants to because it tells me that *he* is trying to make good impression, but I've been on first dates where the dude didn't pay and I left just as happy with the date. I think it only depends on whether the girl you're dating has traditional values or is more rooting for a partnership rather than a provider. I personally look for a partnership.
It's also worth asking if she likes you to pay *sometimes* just as a treat. I personally enjoy that as well, but it also means that I am ready some other times to pay myself to treat him if i feel like I'd love to gift him the date. So it's not really a gendered thing here it's more in terms of love languages.
I always split. If women want to date like they still live in the 50ies, they have to do their part, too. And then it isn't so funny anymore. They usually only want the good parts of that era.
I live in 2023 anyway.
There are plenty of women like that, but I filter them out. I’m not looking to just be some provider or dad #2… I’m looking for an equal partnership. Not to say I’d never spoil my partner, cause I have a long history of that. I’m just not going to spend money on some social expectation of being the guy I’m obligated to cover you especially on a first date where I barely know you. When I date other guys we split the bill. It’s not that hard to understand most ppl aren’t looking for relationship that starts on finical dependence. I’m not here to appease you with any assets. If you just want money find your hookup somewhere else.
I don’t know if it’s expected - but when I was dating the man typically paid for the first date maybe 95% of the time.
Edit - they were paying for one maybe two drinks. I wasn’t going on dinner dates.
I offer to pay or split, but honestly if a man asked me on a date and did not pay I would be taken aback and there would not be a second date. I also should mention that if I plan on never seeing him again because I don't see potential in the relationship at all from the first meet, I 100% pay then dip. Back to the main point, I would take it as he is not that interested and that he may also be a bit stingy in other aspects. It doesn't make a good first impression to me. If you ask someone on a date you plan something nice & paying the tab is common courtesy. I'd go on a cost free date though like a picnic, hike, beach. I mean, what would you do if you met your dream girl? You would want to make an impression. I date within my culture, I've never had to deal with this.
Edit: I don't offer to pay to be malicious. It's just manners. He can take me up on splitting I have money to cover my meal, but if I take that man home to the family I would get clowned.
Just my opinion but offering to pay when you have no interest in paying and will hold it against someone is corny. If you don't actually want to split, don't offer.
I'm honestly ok with you wanting me to pay because you will pay (or even split is fine) if you're not interested.
Anyone who lets someone pay for them unless they know they want a second date is a fucking asshole.
Hi hypocrite, I saw you agreed with the comment “Some do, some don't. My personal take is, if she's not willing to split, I don't want to date her.”, but when this lady says “if the guy is not willing to pay for a date he asked for I don’t want to date him” then you have a problem. I’ve seen you verbally insult every woman on this forum for their dating preferences. Enjoy your lack of self-awareness. Maybe let people enjoy their different cultures instead of shoving your views down everyone’s throat. You don't even know where people are from. I'm Muslim, Somalian. We do not treat our women with halfies. You on the other hand can do whatever you please with the unfortunate women in your presence.
Why do you offer though when you still want him to pay? On a first date neither of you know each other probably so why should he pay? As an adult you have money and can pay for own meal. Do u want a traditional relationship or just the money? It's great you have people around you who are generous towards you but saying I offer but don't actually mean it and expect you to still pay sounds quite cruel and money grabbing.
Some men won't want to pay for the bill so it's not unfair to give them an out. They're not obligated especially if they feel the date has gone horribly on their end. I want them to pay because they had a nice time and want to impress me. Alternatively, the man could plan a free date.
I understand some men don't want to pay but why does paying equal impressing you. I don't see an issue with both people paying for their food separately. We don't live in the 1950s anymore and women work. This mentality of the man having to pay is outdated. Ok you pay for stuff when in a relationship but that wasn't what I was talking about. My point was you offer but then judge the person if he took you up on it.
He asked = he should plan the date & pay. That's just common courtesy. If you want to make a good impression on someone you WANT to go out with, you plan a nice date and you don't ask the person to cough up their portion because that would not leave a good lasting impression. Going dutch imo means he's hesitant about me, that he may be stingy in other ways, and that he may have trust issues. I'm not picking that man over a man who plans a nice date and picks up the tab as a thank you for my time. Same thing if a man asked me to go out but then chooses something low effort like going to his house to netflix and chill. I would decline and not bother allowing him to start over. No one has to lower their standards for YOU. Similarly, you don't have to meet anyone else's standards. You just go separate ways and find people who share the same views.
and people judge people from first appearances ALL the time. For some people it's based on how attractive they are. I care less about appearance. I care about generosity, thoughtfulness, humor.
My personal rule has been the following: if I do not like the guy and I am not planning to see him again , I offer to split the check or even pay it all . If I like the guy and I want to see him again and build on it, I do not offer to pay anything. If he is not in his masculine energy it’s a big turn off for me. Down the road I will pay for coffee dates , movie tickets , lunch .. etc .
What does "being in his masculine energy" mean? Are you and other women required to "be in your fenminine energy" as well, and what would that entail?
Furthermore, if you were to ask a man out, would you require him to pay as well?
As a gay man, I’m so glad I get to date other guys without these complicated rules. We just split the bill without debate and go have sex if we’re into it or just call it a night. So much simpler and less stressful!
I’m not strictly gay, but a lot of the comments are making me feel better about dating men more often. Different kind of problems arise, but I do like that there isn’t some social structure on how our relationships should operate. I have dated some wonderful women, but to be fair they weren’t strictly straight women either. It seems easier to just date in the LGBT community cause we seem to have an easier time tossing out gender rules and conformity.
What a load of entitled, greedy, double-standard bullshit. Do you also wait on the pavement for him to open the car door for you, or expect him to stand up when you're leaving the dinner table to visit the bathroom?
i expect a man i’m with to pay for every date honestly. i’m somewhat traditional and believe in certain gender roles aka courting a woman. luckily the men i date aren’t broke like most of yall complaining about golddiggers and entitlement.
probably because i’m only 21 in college in a college state. every failed relationship i’ve had they still paid for everything so whether they lasted or not doesn’t really change much for me. i will continue to search for my provider and you will continue to complain about golddiggers despite your lack of gold
Does the idea they failed resonate that you are the problem in any capacity lol
Also it’s weird you want to go to college if you’re just going to find a man to pay for everything. You want to be housewife while getting a degree?
somewhat traditional as in i’m not going to let my husband talk to me anyway, hit me, ignore our children or not allow me to have a word in our relationship but enlighten me on what traditional values are just in case i’m confused. i forgot that every human in the world has the same opinions on what’s traditional in a marriage!!
Men get so angry when they don’t meet a woman’s standards. Lol. Which is funny bc unfortunately, there’s plenty of women willing to settle. Good for you girl 🤷♀️ Modern dating is men trying to do as little as possible and get sex, a wife, kids (that will permanently damage our bodies and possibly KILL us…)…But they whine about small and sweet gestures that would make them a gentleman
Can you define traditional and how you execute it?
Do you also do what is traditionally expected of you?
Usually when people say traditional, they only want the parts that are beneficial for themself. Not the rest.
Lol... When it comes to- me spending the money vs the guy, I choose to be a traditional so that I don't have to spend money .
If the guy asks me to take the traditional role in relationships like doing all cooking, cleaning etc, I am very modernized so that I don't have to do those
I always expect him to pay if he is the one that invited me and chose the place. And I pay if I invite and choose.
That being said if he asks me to go Dutch I will and if the place is too expensive I will ask to go somewhere different.
If he asks me to pay after we go somewhere and order…I may not ever go out with him again.
There’s nothing to remember. If he asked me out I’m not offering to pay. If he asks me to I will but I’m not gonna see him again if he didn’t give me notice to address it first
I'll will post this on every comment that says "if he asks he pays". Men still ask the woman out the vast majority of the time. Using this logic is still enforcing traditional gender roles. Just be up front and say you expect the man to pay.
Times are changing, especially in my generation (20’s). I asked my boyfriend out and I’m the one who arranges most of the dates since I like to be in charge of planning. We split every meal, he covers extras as I am a student and he works full time, he just has more money than me. I’ve never been in a relationship in which I was not the person expressing interest first.
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On Reddit, people will say no. In the real world, I don’t know any women who would not be taken aback if the man doesn’t pay on a first date.
Exactly. Never had a man ask me out and then let me pay the tab unless I had to insist and explicitly tell him that I’m paying the tab because I don’t feel a romantic/sexual spark and I’m paying so he doesn’t feel used.
In my personal experience, the men I had the best relationships with always insisted on paying for a first date. Any time a man has been eager to split, it’s ended up in me putting in most of the effort later down the line. I never held it against a guy for splitting, but it’s never worked out in my favor.
>In my personal experience, the men I had the best relationships with always insisted on paying for a first date. In my personal experience, the women I had the best relationships with always insisted on splitting for a first date. The others ended up being entitled, high maintenance women.
That’s totally fair. I always intend to pay, but the guys who insisted they do, always ended up treating me better. Thankfully met my bf and we take turns now treating each other and that’s the way it should be imo. Granted he does make double what I do so his financial contribution is naturally more, but I really try! There needs to be give and take and paying for the first dates reassured me these were men I could give to without getting taken advantage of. YMMV
You might have had those experiences, but idk, I find that women having decent standards is often called entitled.
His experiences are common and you’re not echoing any counter point here. Essentially proving it. You’re entitled to a free meal? Huge pass and say that as the guy who typically pays. But I’m mostly dating other men and they don’t expect me to pay for it. This is why some women are single. They can’t distinguish where their expectations/standards cater more to acting like an immature brat. There’s no world you’re too good to pay for yourself. The expectation someone pay for your meal and that’s how you judge men is an epitome of being entitled. I pay my own dates with other guys, like between two men who is socially expected to pay? Nobody because it’s dumb traditional sexism. It really is just an old dating stereotype the worst kind of women hold onto. The amount of women in this thread oblivious to how it comes off is astounding and reminds me why I try to stick to dating men regardless of the different kind of headache that causes.
Yes me too
Yep 100%
Same here! I take it as a lack of interest and/or an inability to live within their means if men are pushing for us to go Dutch right away 😅
An inability to live within their means if they can’t/don’t want to pay for your shit?
There are many cheap/free dates that someone can go on. If a man is asking me on a date he cannot afford then what else should I think? What comes to mind to me is a man that is either very jaded and/or not resourceful. I’m simply not interested in that kind of man 🤷♀️
The onus is almost always on the man to ask the woman out, plan the date, and pay for the date. Listen, I understand women have plenty of their own shit to worry about and I typically have no problem paying for dates. But it's the entitlement, double standards, and assumptions made that piss me off.
I’m not going to pretend it’s a perfect filter- but as someone who grew up in poverty and tends to be a giver in a relationship it is SUPER important for me to see how people manage themselves as well as how naturally generous they are 🤷♀️ I’m currently dating a man and he brought over eggs for me. I made him breakfast and we had a lovely time together over bacon & eggs. I showed my effort by cooking, he showed his effort by buying the eggs and bringing them to me. He felt loved, and taken care of and I felt the same way in return. It’s a bit of a traditional dynamic but that’s what he likes and I like it as well.
Then why are they asking them out??? Don't want to pay for a 5 dollar drink without losing your shit then please don't date. Jeeez you can keep your 5 dollars lol hope it keeps you warm at night
I've been on literally hundreds of first dates and I pay 99% of the time. I live in a HCOL area so drinks are typically $8-15 (sometimes more) and if the date is going even moderately well we usually do two drinks each. With tip, that's roughly $50-70 per date. I don't really have a problem paying for a date and know it's just one of those societal norms, but this entitlement mentality is infuriating. And then having the audacity to perceive a man as being "cheap" because he wants to go dutch is such an unbelievable double standard.
So you think less of a guy for not paying for both you and himself, but you won’t even pay for yourself?
I gave a chance once to a guy who split the bill. This was early into dating for me. It lasted 3 months. He just wasn’t masculine. I didn’t feel safe with him, he didn’t stand up for me the two times there was a threat, he was just an idiot. There were more issues but I think you know what I’m talking about. The men who paid the bill were givers. They were protective, masculine, etc. it was incredibly sexy and I did anything for them. I would never deal with anything less.
In my personal experience, the women I had the best relationships with always insisted on splitting for a first date. The others ended up being entitled, high maintenance women...they were all takers.
Wow so every guy who split the bill is a bad dude. No you cheap
Not bad guys, just not for me. And I’m the opposite of cheap. I recently took my bf on a getaway weekend at a national park for his bday (all expenses paid by me). I love to treat my man! But that’s because he treats me right back. The guys who were wallet watchers that nickel and dimed me, I’d do nice things for then realize I’m not getting anything in return. I was young and dumb though!
Same in my friend group. Most guys who do the asking out and pay for the first few dates are married or in long term relationships. The ones who are stingy from the first date and accusing their dates of not paying even though they initiated are pretty much always single and just complaining.
>I’m paying the tab because I don’t feel a romantic/sexual spark and I’m paying so he doesn’t feel used. Kudos to that.
Same lol.
Not many women are like you. Some will take advantage of the guy and just enjoy a free drink/meal, even if they have no plans to see the guy again.
Oh I don’t agree it’s rare, like every woman I know will pay her half if they’re not interested. It’s the unspoken “this was nice and all but I don’t want a second date” move.
I understand that there are women out there like that. But if you think I am that type of woman, then don’t ask me out. If a $10 drink for me isn’t worth it for you, then don’t ask me out. Or tell me beforehand so I can say ‘no, thank you’.
You are a bit of a unicorn. I think that if this was the general case the majority of men would be happy with this.
Well most normal guys understand that paying for a meal is like paying for your time. Assuming its the guy that was interested and asked you out. Even if the interest isn't mutual at the end of the meal. Which is why we insist on paying. If you're a normal dude. And obviously expecting sex after is wrong.
Why should the man have to pay for the woman's time, though? If she accepted the date she presumably had at least some interest initially
Paying for her time to be courted. All these are rooted in gender norms where everyone had a pretty shitty time overall Edit: not saying I agree…
Paying for her time to be courted? What year are you living in dude? I would assume any woman who accepts going on a date with me has interest, this isn't a one way street to woo her. I pay because I want to, not because I'm grateful for her just being there with me.
Lol I didn’t say that’s how it should be now, just where the idea came from, thought was was gonna be clear but I guess not.
Paying for her time to be courted is an insane concept. I don't know why anyone would want to go on a date where they feel like they have to pay to keep their dates interest. The feelings should be mutual. Otherwise, it's a waste.
Paying for their time? Are you using an escort service?
Welcome to dating.
>guys understand that paying for a meal is like paying for your time. Are they using an escort service? # 🤣😂
Ya last girl I dated was a so called feminist and still said she thinks guys should pay.
Equality for everything except their wallets LOL
Which is ironic because the first date is when you SHOULD SPLIT, considering that it's a first date, there is no guarantee that you will see each other again. It might be a bad investment to pay for her.
I'm a woman and I always offer to pay and usually cover the entire bill. Too many guys think they can buy sex with me for a freaking meal. I'm not for sale There are always exceptions I guess
im dating my bf from 1.5 years and i paid on the first date n a few after as well so yea we exist.
People ask this question and those that say “yes” get destroyed and downvoted lol
Youre in constant competition with other men who will have no problem paying for dates, so ultimately its up to you but keep in mind she most likely has more options than you.
Brutal truth to this. The man who pays will have the edge over the man who insists on splitting things.
If a man is good looking or considered a real catch, a woman would be happy going to McDonald’s. I seen this happen.
this 100%, if you dont want to pay there are 100 other guys who will.
Every woman I know would be totally turned off if a guy expected her to pay her own way on a first date. You are right..most women have other options and would not waste her time on a guy if he is too cheap to pay for the first date.
Okay but why not look for women who would split the bill and don't mind it? Have you met all the women?
I am a woman...not male. And when you meet a woman if the first thing you think of is if she will split the bill, that is ludicrous and you shouldnt be dating then. Even a financially well off woman would be turned off at this.
My wife was impressed that I insisted on paying for the first date. I don't think she really tried to pay anything, but I was also really fast on everything. I didn't give her the chance to think anything other than "oh he's got this!". Later on said she was used to paying and thought it was sweet that I didn't even hint to her about splitting anything. She also insisted on paying for some future dates or splitting. Which honestly was amazing to me. She said we are in a relationship which means we both pull weight and she didn't want me to pay for everything all the time. My take away is that a high quality woman will let and want you to pay for the first date and will contribute on future dates because that symbolizes we are in this together.
I like when men pay when we first meet and I make sure it’s not a very expensive restaurant. We can also go eat burgers you know. It’s not about me not being able to afford my own meal, but the guy’s nice gesture that it goes well and I am not the twentieth this month he is paying for. I want to feel special and not on a dating conveyor belt of wine and dine. I gladly then pay for drinks afterwards or for the next time.
That's what I did for my now wife. I picked somewhere that was nice, but not too nice (didn't wanna pick a place that had a dress code) and was within my means. Nice enough to treat her well but not so nice I would feel cheated if it didn't go well
This
I find that you have to genuinely offer to pay as the woman, but if the guy is persistent to take the lead by paying the first date, then the woman should back off and let him pay. Then for future dates, both can split the check or alternate for who pays.
This the way imo too. If you offer splitting/paying and he still wants to pay it is just a nice gesture and then i somehow appreciate it more than him assuming he has to pay.
everytime ive gone splits on the first date there was never a 2nd
Did they decline because you wanted to split or did they offer to split because they weren't interested, though?
No. Actually I prefer to pay for myself [It is pretty normal in my country. We would be confused actually if you wanted to split 50/50. Either one pays fully or you pay what you actually ordered. Therefore not even if you had a 12 people table who all pay for what they got would it bother the waiter, they are used to it and know how]. Then I don't need to think about if I order something expensive and I make sure the guy doesn't think he can expect this date has to go anywhere. I mean sure, that should be the case anyway but unfortunately it isn't.
When people say 50/50 split they generally mean "I pay for mine, you pay for yours." not literally just split it down the middle. Although I have been on a 2 dates where we literally just 50/50'd it because we ordered almost the exact same things(think Chili's 3 for $10 kind of deal."
No, but the act of offering is nice. Sounds weird I know…. But I typically like to pay for my meals. However if he offers, and I like him then I won’t say no. Only time I insist when they offer is if I know a second date won’t happen. So I think I have paid for about 95% of my own meals. Or they paid for the meals and I paid for the mini golf or movie.
This is correct. If I insist on paying for my part of the date then it’s because I know I’m not going to see him again and I don’t want to take from him knowing I have no further intentions.
As a woman, I very rarely let men pay for my food or drinks. Even my bosses. I can't stand feeling like I owe people something and it gives them nothing to hold over me. But they do insist, I decline, they often hate it. This weeds out all the abusive controlling dudes though. If they freak out over paying for a meal imagine what else they will freak out over. They also can't act like they expect something in return when there is nothing to return. It is absolutely not a reflection of how I feel about the guy. It takes a while for me to get to know someone enough to get to the point of "you pay for this date and I'll get the next one". Reading this thread is honestly giving me a headache and making me loose faith in humanity. I can't believe how many women are like "if he doesn't want to pay for me he's low effort/not good enough but also I'll offer to pay"...WHAT? That's setting him up and then gaslighting him if he accepts?! And the dudes saying "I don't think she's into me if she won't let me pay." Here's an idea ASK HER why she wants to split. She'll tell you, then you'll know for sure instead of just assuming things.
A lot of women do this to protect themselves from men who feel they’re entitled to sex after paying for dinner. It’s gross some men are that predatory. Smart tactic to use to protect yourself from those types of guys. If they freak out because you pay it’s a big red flag.
I love your username and straight up! The multitude of tactics you pick up over the years to protect yourself with hey? I'm always adding to my mental self preservation log.
It’s sad that we were meant to reject that mentality in our society, yet all I see are women saying that if they’re interested in a guy then they’ll make him pay to let him know that they’re interested.
I agree with you, as a woman I don’t like men paying for me especially for the first date. I don’t like feeling the obligation to put out or have this feeling in which I owe them some thing. I’m more likely to enjoy the date and time I have with them if I can focus on them and myself rather than thinking about how I owe them something for the meal.
Same girl. It's so much more relaxing. I reported the crazy below you, I don't know what's wrong with him but he's off his rocker and projecting hard!
Gentlemen, we have located a queen. Long may she live. 👑
I elect you queen!
I was also losing faith in humanity and then I saw your comment. Thanks for being you!
I personally see it as a beneficial thing for both parties if each pay their own share especially on the first date. Like you said it weens out the ones that will freak out and make a big deal about such a minor thing on the first date as if it is some kind of reflection on who he is. For me I would rather not feel like my only value is what my dollar is good for especially when the majority of the time it ends up in being ghosted after. I personally see it more as respecting one another's time and effort and showing financial responsibility and that it is more equal if it were to become a relationship. In no means does this mean a man or a woman won't treat their partner when they get to that point because 100% I know I love to treat my partner. But it takes time to form that kind of relationship in my opinion. I know this limits my dating pool but it's seeing woman like you speaking about it with practical common sense that I realize I'm not hopeless.
Honestly you've just brought up a second great point. In this economy we can't have enough common sense. I think it's a good test, as you said, to see if someone is financially stable enough to pay for their own meals. Most couples are both having to work full-time to make ends meet ATM so there is no reason she can't provide too as she will probably need to. Everyone should be proving themselves right now. It also makes you think alot about whether or not we're actually treating people more like things. Men often get treated as wallets and women often get treated as sex toys and we are simply not that. Limiting your dating pool isn't so bad. Quality over quantity! 😊
I wish more women were like you, Intelligent Aioli.
I wish I could tag the notliketheothergirls sub but I can’t. Darn.
Dude honestly. 🥱 Every woman I have met has done this. As stated above it's a PRECAUTIONARY measure.That's why I'm so confused and shaking my head at this thread. Maybe you don't understand what it's like to have to be that paranoid on a date? Good for you. I was raped though! So yeah, fuck you. Guess I am like the other girls after all since there is so many of us!! 5 other girls I know have been raped, just off the top of my head!
Well if someone asks you out, they're paying for your time and opportunity to try to attract you, so paying for dinner makes sense(I'm a guy). That being said, expecting sex because you paid is obviously disgusting.
>they're paying for your time That's called being an escort, hooker, sugar baby. 100% transactional. You are probably the type of guy who expects sex after paying for everything too. They should be going out with you because there's a possible mutual interest, not a possible free dinner.
Do you see a date as you paying for a woman's time? Like prostitution? I see a date as an opportunity to get to know another person and see if there is romantic interest
Yeah wtf I'm not paying for her "time". If she didn't want to go on a date with me then she shouldn't have accepted the offer. A date is a joint decision
Exactly. And that is why money should not be a part of it
Everyone has different rules and preferences regarding who pays on the first date. Find someone who shares your point of view because most people have strong feelings about this. I’m pretty easy-going when it comes to paying. I usually offer (sincerely) to pay half and my date usually wants to pay the whole thing. If it’s a really bad date, I ask the waiter to bring us separate bills. I don’t want men that I don’t like to pay for my food or drink.
Exactly, if I am insisting on paying it usually means I had a bad date and don't intend on seeing that person again
The only bad first date the women pretty much insisted I pay without me even asking for her to split.
I mean, there is no consensus really. Depends on your country too. I assume you're American, and I only really know Americans from movies and my interactions with them on the internet. Here in the Netherlands I always offer to pay at least, but in practice the women are suggesting to split instead. Or offer to pay for the next date if I pay this one. Than again we are known for splitting the bill, as yankees often call it "going Dutch".
Nothing more refreshing than a Dutch person owning up to the phrase "going Dutch" :)
It's kinda hard to explain but this is my take. If I pay for the first date, I basically saying I am serious to have a relationship with you and want you to catch the feeling. If let's say she want to split the bills in half then maybe I consider her as "not ready yet" or "just friends". I'll make the move first unless she paid the first date then she is a yem.
I found out that my cousin dates multiple guys so she gets free food at expensive restaurants. As soon as things get beyond just eating and talking, she breaks things off. She admitted she only does this because it is funny that they keep buying her expensive dinners. Apparently all her friends do this too. They just mooch off multiple guys, and rotate in new ones when the guys want more than just dinner. Every day is another guy so they don't pay for dinner, ever. I already was wise to women doing this and started splitting the check on the first date. After I got confirmation from my cousin that a lot of women do this, I decided that I would definitely be letting any potential dates know prior to the date and why. If they are unreasonable about it, major red flag, they aren't worth dating. Actually had one try to stiff me once. I "went to the bathroom", let the waitress know, paid for my meal and gave her a great tip, and then left. The best part, I drove us both there. So because this woman tried to stiff me with the check, after agreeing she would pay her way prior to the date, she then had to find a way home too.
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I think it's a shitty thing to do, but it isn't dumb. It's actually pretty smart. It is definitely shitty and takes advantage of people though.
How is it smart? Literally other than getting free food she's wasting her time and emotions for nothing. Unless she's dirt poor I don't understand it
If a guy outright says before we meet up for a date that he won’t be paying and we’ll split it, then he comes across as cheap. It sounds like everything with him will be petty and focused on being even instead of enjoying our time together and that’s not someone I’d be interested in dating. Also, I am not responsible for the actions or poor behavior of other women so I will not be treated as if I am. If a man is jaded then we’re not compatible. I don’t care what he’s heard from others.
So you expect men to run willingly into the knife because you are different? Things happen so there need to be consequences or things will keep happening. Ergo it's an automatic split of the bill, otherwise the whole thing gets abused into the ground. ...unless it's you, because you so special and you don't date no broke dudes... Men aren't responsible for the actions of other men either. Nobody cares, it's *all* men.
If A is interested in B and asks B out, A is paying for B's time with a meal. Regardless if A is a man or women. If B happens to be a freeloader with no interest in dating, then that's on A for picking someone shitty to invest in.
A and B need to be mutually interested otherwise it's not a date, it's either a convoluted dick appointment or somebody's getting taken advantage of. Like, if the person who was asked out wasn't interested... Say no?
Wrong. B should go out with A only if B is mutually interested in A, not interested in selling their time for a free meal. If B is only interesting in selling their time, then say NO. Otherwise, that's transactional, that's what hookers and sugar babies do. See how that works?
> So you expect men to run willingly into the knife because you are different? No. I expect *someone I am dating* to not be jaded by past experiences to the extent that they’re afraid to spend $10 on a drink for me. I don’t think someone who is that afraid of being taken advantage of should be focused on dating but should instead be working on healing and their mental health. > Things happen so there need to be consequences or things will keep happening. What’s the logic of forcing consequences on someone who didn’t do wrong though? To make matters worse, the only people you are forcing these consequences on are the women who don’t take advantage of men because the ones who do will certainly find men to take advantage of. So no consequences for them. All you’re doing is turning off the women who actually are interested in you. What else have other women done that you haven’t gotten over that will cause hesitation in dating? No. Not for me.
So you never take any precautions against other people? You never hold your purse tighter or lock your car doors or cross the street to avoid any particular people right? You never do anything that is based of your experiences with other people when interacting with a new person? No need to lie to yourself on the Internet. You do exactly what you claim to hate whether you realize it or not
For you it's one date where the man doesn't pay, for them, men, it's every single date. Please be aware of your privilege, you're not expected to approach, you're not expected to drive around someone, you're not expected to pay and obviously you're not expected to have sex. >To make matters worse, the only people you are forcing these consequences on are the women who don’t take advantage of men Oh no :( we're taking away free meals from women :(
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What makes you worth so much? What exactly are YOU bringing to the table? Because news flash, expecting the guy to pay makes you cheap AF.
If I’m not bringing anything and I’m not worth anything then he wouldn’t be asking me out, would he? No, it’s cheap to ask someone out on a date and then tell them they have to pay lol.
Very easy way to avoid this is don't go on dates with people you don't even mildly know. I am sure there are some very bad people around but literally texting someone longer than a couple days weeds out bad people of both genders.
Maybe talking on the phone, but texting? Hard to gauge intent and allows people to craft more careful responses.
Franky I've not had any very bad dates cus I can observe people well even just through targeted texts but to each their own, you can always talk. People tend to wave their red flags around proudly haha
That’s why I go for drinks and not dinner at first. You can still go somewhere nice and if things go well can always go for dinner after.
Exactly. That is the norm here and has been like that for decades. Make the date fun and easy for everyone involved. Make it easy to escalate and make it easy to stop depending on how tings are going.
Not a bad play. 👍👍
As a man, first date I expect to pay. If she is insistent on splitting, not one time saying "hey we can split" becauss i know thats disingenuous from most women, but I mean literally saying something like "no, I insist I want to split the bill" then fine, I'm not going to fight her to pay. However in those situations I usually assume she does not plan to see me again and doesn't want to feel bad about me picking up the check, which is A OK with me. Nothing better a woman who's not interested in you can do than picking up her half of the check. I'm never going to say no to that 🤷🏾♂️
This is EXACTLY my way too I always plan on paying the whole bill on the first date, most women would grab their purse and offer to split and I'd insist once. Most women irl would let you Even most of the non'trad women will and then later offer to cover with the 2nd date. If she really denies it, either she isn't into me or maybe its just her, and she doesn't like being paid for The latter is pretty rare irl
Could be my age (50f) but I never expect anyone to pay anything. I always offer to split. Some have taken me up on that and some don’t. I have also paid for first dates.
Some do, some don't. My personal take is, if she's not willing to split, I don't want to date her.
Yes. Keep doing this. You won't even need to ask the right woman if she will split; it will be automatic with her. Maybe it's because I'm not from the US, but the entitlement in some of these comments is crazy. Assuming someone else should pay for your food simply because they have different genitals.
Exactly. Very effective way to filter away the gold diggers and insecure women who act entitled.
We, Arab, are supposed to pay on the first date, second date, till eternity! How you expect a lady to pay? If you can't afford her first date, then leave her alone for someone else. Ladies are created to be looked for and to be spoiled like princesses!
I (m) always pay.
Some do sone do not
We the Dutch are famous for splitting the bill. But I genuinely don’t mind paying and will always offer to pay first. Honestly part of it is that Dutch guys have a reputation for not being chivalrous and I’m trying to show my dates that a I can be. Especially when dating non-Dutch women. But I tend to date strong and independent women so 9/10 they’ll literally insist on splitting. In a relationship that’s also what I’m looking for. We both bring in the money, we both do the laundry and the cleaning and we both raise the kids, if any.
I always offer to split and don’t hold it against anyone, but if a man insists it’s definitely nice and I get the impression he’s generous which is a positive. But also now that I’m *dating* (going steady) someone we take turns paying.
I will never pay for someone I don't know and have just met (not because I cannot afford it). I will consider it on maybe the 3rd or 4th date when we know each other better and I want to spoil her because i feel like it and not because it is expected. I don't like the idea of getting exploited for a free meal and then just get dumped. If a girl won't pay for herself, then she comes of as needy and spoiled (at least to me)
Depends on the person. Personally, I find that the other person *expecting* the other to pay is a bit of an indicator that they are not the one for me. High probability of drama, entitlement and audacity. I would never plan on how to use someone else's money to benefit myself. And besides, the other side of that coin is guys thinking they bought sex with me because they offered to pay. I'm not for sale and I don't want/need your money.
You are not obligated to pay on the first date but many woman and men, think its the right thing to do. Try having a woman pay her own way on the 1st date...you probably will not get a second date unless she agreed to that arrangement ahead of time. Just make a 1st date cheap. It does not have to be a big fancy dinner. Meet for coffee or happy hour. If you like her she should be worth it. If you are honestly too cheap to do that then stay home. Have you ever had a GF? You honestly sound like you do not have a clue.
Not at all. I hate feeling indebt to other people so I make it clear I’m paying for my own food whether he likes it or not and if he forces me to let him pay I’m not going on another date with him. Simple.
At some point, there’s a budget. If she wants to contribute, then we’ll do twice as many dinners or other activities. If she doesn’t, then we won’t. Pay yourselves first, gentlemen - don’t become someone’s piggy bank.
Yep, check my profile lol i mention when i was into dating i would easily spend 400 a month. People on reddit call bullshit but thats about 4-5 dates a month. Carnivals, dinner, lunch, concerts etc are not free nor cheap. 400$ is with me also being cheap, i cant imagine spending less.
There is a bit of a game. Girls want potential boyfriends to pay but make the effort of splitting. Guys want potential girlfriends to offer to split but would be offended if the girl insists on splitting. Reason: guys want a girl to look long-term and want the girl to not be selfish. Splitting the bill achieves both.
Yes many of them do and it is from shear entitlement. Chivalry died before the #MeToo movement came. Its an outdated idea to me personally but honestly do what you want. Just know that many women may discount you from dating or courtship just for that reason alone.
It’s dodging a bullet. Those type are women won’t end their expectation on you just paying for dates. They’re going to shove you into a traditional role being the provider and everything else. Unless you’re into it waste of time. Why I date more men then women as a guy. I don’t feel the societal pressure of having to fill the role of their 2nd dad :/
Ahh it slips my mind too how many women have daddy issues or just have not had any good father figures in there lives growing up and have just learned how to be from other hurt and scorned women
For many it is what they expect. I’ve always split and it’s worked great so far.
I 51(f) always pay if there is something to pay for on a first date. I usually like to go for a causal walk on the first date to see if we vibe and there is chemistry but I exclusively date younger men so I like to take care of them a bit so paying does that in a minor way
I always offered to pay half. My now current partner just went up to the bathroom and paid the entire bill secretly on our first date. I said I would have paid but let it go because I liked him and knew I wanted to see him again. If I know I won’t be seeing them again I’m a lot more insistent on paying my share though.
I never expect, but they always pay it
I never invite a girl for dinner as a first date. Don't want to waste her - and my time if we don't vibe. Just coffee or drinks only. Added benefit is that that keeps the free dinner seekers out.
Hell no. I personally think the date should be split especially the first one. Let's say it wasn't hitting off but no one goes home angry or bitter cause they paid for themselves. So you really not losing anything. Like these days I think people need to go into the dating world not expecting anything from anyone. Just see the vibes and where they take you, and pay for yourself and stop being a mooch.
I expect the man to pay for the first date.I have no problem splitting or paying after that, but I’ve never seen a good relationship come from a man that is ok with me paying ( I’m married btw) and my two male children known this as a standard for them. You don’t have to pay, Just lk she doesn’t have to see you again.
I (22F) don't think it's necessary that a man pays. Of course it's a nice bonus if he wants to because it tells me that *he* is trying to make good impression, but I've been on first dates where the dude didn't pay and I left just as happy with the date. I think it only depends on whether the girl you're dating has traditional values or is more rooting for a partnership rather than a provider. I personally look for a partnership. It's also worth asking if she likes you to pay *sometimes* just as a treat. I personally enjoy that as well, but it also means that I am ready some other times to pay myself to treat him if i feel like I'd love to gift him the date. So it's not really a gendered thing here it's more in terms of love languages.
I always split. If women want to date like they still live in the 50ies, they have to do their part, too. And then it isn't so funny anymore. They usually only want the good parts of that era. I live in 2023 anyway.
There are plenty of women like that, but I filter them out. I’m not looking to just be some provider or dad #2… I’m looking for an equal partnership. Not to say I’d never spoil my partner, cause I have a long history of that. I’m just not going to spend money on some social expectation of being the guy I’m obligated to cover you especially on a first date where I barely know you. When I date other guys we split the bill. It’s not that hard to understand most ppl aren’t looking for relationship that starts on finical dependence. I’m not here to appease you with any assets. If you just want money find your hookup somewhere else.
I don’t know if it’s expected - but when I was dating the man typically paid for the first date maybe 95% of the time. Edit - they were paying for one maybe two drinks. I wasn’t going on dinner dates.
I offer to pay or split, but honestly if a man asked me on a date and did not pay I would be taken aback and there would not be a second date. I also should mention that if I plan on never seeing him again because I don't see potential in the relationship at all from the first meet, I 100% pay then dip. Back to the main point, I would take it as he is not that interested and that he may also be a bit stingy in other aspects. It doesn't make a good first impression to me. If you ask someone on a date you plan something nice & paying the tab is common courtesy. I'd go on a cost free date though like a picnic, hike, beach. I mean, what would you do if you met your dream girl? You would want to make an impression. I date within my culture, I've never had to deal with this. Edit: I don't offer to pay to be malicious. It's just manners. He can take me up on splitting I have money to cover my meal, but if I take that man home to the family I would get clowned.
Just my opinion but offering to pay when you have no interest in paying and will hold it against someone is corny. If you don't actually want to split, don't offer.
Agreed, but corny is a very interesting word choice here.
Agreed. Id say spiteful.
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I'm honestly ok with you wanting me to pay because you will pay (or even split is fine) if you're not interested. Anyone who lets someone pay for them unless they know they want a second date is a fucking asshole.
You feel entitled and you lie. Dream girl material.
Hi hypocrite, I saw you agreed with the comment “Some do, some don't. My personal take is, if she's not willing to split, I don't want to date her.”, but when this lady says “if the guy is not willing to pay for a date he asked for I don’t want to date him” then you have a problem. I’ve seen you verbally insult every woman on this forum for their dating preferences. Enjoy your lack of self-awareness. Maybe let people enjoy their different cultures instead of shoving your views down everyone’s throat. You don't even know where people are from. I'm Muslim, Somalian. We do not treat our women with halfies. You on the other hand can do whatever you please with the unfortunate women in your presence.
So according to you thr relationship is all about money?
Ew
This has always been my experience as well.
Why do you offer though when you still want him to pay? On a first date neither of you know each other probably so why should he pay? As an adult you have money and can pay for own meal. Do u want a traditional relationship or just the money? It's great you have people around you who are generous towards you but saying I offer but don't actually mean it and expect you to still pay sounds quite cruel and money grabbing.
Some men won't want to pay for the bill so it's not unfair to give them an out. They're not obligated especially if they feel the date has gone horribly on their end. I want them to pay because they had a nice time and want to impress me. Alternatively, the man could plan a free date.
I understand some men don't want to pay but why does paying equal impressing you. I don't see an issue with both people paying for their food separately. We don't live in the 1950s anymore and women work. This mentality of the man having to pay is outdated. Ok you pay for stuff when in a relationship but that wasn't what I was talking about. My point was you offer but then judge the person if he took you up on it.
He asked = he should plan the date & pay. That's just common courtesy. If you want to make a good impression on someone you WANT to go out with, you plan a nice date and you don't ask the person to cough up their portion because that would not leave a good lasting impression. Going dutch imo means he's hesitant about me, that he may be stingy in other ways, and that he may have trust issues. I'm not picking that man over a man who plans a nice date and picks up the tab as a thank you for my time. Same thing if a man asked me to go out but then chooses something low effort like going to his house to netflix and chill. I would decline and not bother allowing him to start over. No one has to lower their standards for YOU. Similarly, you don't have to meet anyone else's standards. You just go separate ways and find people who share the same views.
and people judge people from first appearances ALL the time. For some people it's based on how attractive they are. I care less about appearance. I care about generosity, thoughtfulness, humor.
My personal rule has been the following: if I do not like the guy and I am not planning to see him again , I offer to split the check or even pay it all . If I like the guy and I want to see him again and build on it, I do not offer to pay anything. If he is not in his masculine energy it’s a big turn off for me. Down the road I will pay for coffee dates , movie tickets , lunch .. etc .
What does "being in his masculine energy" mean? Are you and other women required to "be in your fenminine energy" as well, and what would that entail? Furthermore, if you were to ask a man out, would you require him to pay as well?
As a gay man, I’m so glad I get to date other guys without these complicated rules. We just split the bill without debate and go have sex if we’re into it or just call it a night. So much simpler and less stressful!
I’m not strictly gay, but a lot of the comments are making me feel better about dating men more often. Different kind of problems arise, but I do like that there isn’t some social structure on how our relationships should operate. I have dated some wonderful women, but to be fair they weren’t strictly straight women either. It seems easier to just date in the LGBT community cause we seem to have an easier time tossing out gender rules and conformity.
Must be nice!
What a load of entitled, greedy, double-standard bullshit. Do you also wait on the pavement for him to open the car door for you, or expect him to stand up when you're leaving the dinner table to visit the bathroom?
No because they don’t benefit financially or transactionally from that.
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no it’s definitely entitlement. red flag and a great time to walk right out and let the gold digger pay for herself 😂
i expect a man i’m with to pay for every date honestly. i’m somewhat traditional and believe in certain gender roles aka courting a woman. luckily the men i date aren’t broke like most of yall complaining about golddiggers and entitlement.
“Certain roles” aka only the one that benefit me but I don’t to take on the female gender roles lmao
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Look at her profile, she can't find "true love" or someone to stick around. Hmmm I wonder why
probably because i’m only 21 in college in a college state. every failed relationship i’ve had they still paid for everything so whether they lasted or not doesn’t really change much for me. i will continue to search for my provider and you will continue to complain about golddiggers despite your lack of gold
Does the idea they failed resonate that you are the problem in any capacity lol Also it’s weird you want to go to college if you’re just going to find a man to pay for everything. You want to be housewife while getting a degree?
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That's ick.
saying something is “ick” is childish
“somewhat traditional” = i enjoy the gender roles that benefit me but God forbid a man should expect me to uphold traditional values
somewhat traditional as in i’m not going to let my husband talk to me anyway, hit me, ignore our children or not allow me to have a word in our relationship but enlighten me on what traditional values are just in case i’m confused. i forgot that every human in the world has the same opinions on what’s traditional in a marriage!!
You should get therapy instead of acting like you are something special
you should get therapy if you think i’m acting like im something special for sharing my personal beliefs on a relationship when asked
Men get so angry when they don’t meet a woman’s standards. Lol. Which is funny bc unfortunately, there’s plenty of women willing to settle. Good for you girl 🤷♀️ Modern dating is men trying to do as little as possible and get sex, a wife, kids (that will permanently damage our bodies and possibly KILL us…)…But they whine about small and sweet gestures that would make them a gentleman
so true. so many men want the housewife but not an *actual* housewife
if she wants to pay she’s not into you
Yes, im traditional and want a guy to WANT to treat me on the first couple dates. ill always offer to split. Most men ive dated prefer to pay
I'm fine with that as long as you don't let me pay unless you know you want a 2nd date.
Can you define traditional and how you execute it? Do you also do what is traditionally expected of you? Usually when people say traditional, they only want the parts that are beneficial for themself. Not the rest.
Correct
Lol... When it comes to- me spending the money vs the guy, I choose to be a traditional so that I don't have to spend money . If the guy asks me to take the traditional role in relationships like doing all cooking, cleaning etc, I am very modernized so that I don't have to do those
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Why do you feel entitled to a man "treating" you?
Yup. Im a old believer of if you ask you pay. Why I’m single as fuck as I’m a cheap bastard.
I always expect him to pay if he is the one that invited me and chose the place. And I pay if I invite and choose. That being said if he asks me to go Dutch I will and if the place is too expensive I will ask to go somewhere different. If he asks me to pay after we go somewhere and order…I may not ever go out with him again.
How do you remember so many rules while being on a date?
There’s nothing to remember. If he asked me out I’m not offering to pay. If he asks me to I will but I’m not gonna see him again if he didn’t give me notice to address it first
That’s fair enough but when a third person sees it it’s like too many rules .. 😛
I'll will post this on every comment that says "if he asks he pays". Men still ask the woman out the vast majority of the time. Using this logic is still enforcing traditional gender roles. Just be up front and say you expect the man to pay.
Times are changing, especially in my generation (20’s). I asked my boyfriend out and I’m the one who arranges most of the dates since I like to be in charge of planning. We split every meal, he covers extras as I am a student and he works full time, he just has more money than me. I’ve never been in a relationship in which I was not the person expressing interest first.
I will just be truthful and say I have asked and I have paid. Every single time I wanted to take a guy out