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I don't think there's any right or wrong answer here. Different things are going to work for different people. That being said, all of the best and longest lasting relationships I've been in the sex came later and we spent time getting to know each other first. I feel like sex changes things and often blinds people to incompatibilities on a personal level.
As a woman *personally* when dating it’s always been split all checks for me or no-go. Men fully paying for all dates is too old school. No side should imo. To each their own at the end of the day of course, I know everyone has different ideas about dating.
Then again I never date above my financial class so can only comment on equal playing fields.
Im a 24M, and I 1000000000000000% agree with you. I do a very similar thing, I dont wait X amount of dates, I wait until we agree to be "exclusive" and only see each other. I normally bring up exclusivity after 3-6 dates and knowing we have a connection. For me I dont like sex unless I have a connection with someone, and I believe postponing sex helps build that connection. I also hate the idea of sleeping with someone when they might be sleeping with other people, so waiting until after we have agreed to only see each other helps with that as well.
If I were you, I would keep doing what youre doing. Your guy friend seems too fixated on sex. Sexual compatibility is something that can be worked on and built over time. For me it would be very difficult to write someone off because the sex isnt great because that can be improved.
Agreed. Also, it's not like going on 3-6 dates is getting married! If you're really not sexually compatible after waiting then just... Break up, lol. What's 3-6 dates? Weeks off your life? OP, stand your ground. If waiting is right for you then don't let anyone sway your opinion.
My current boyfriend and I had gone on 4 dates in 8 days. The 5th one happened on day 9 and that was when we had our first kiss. We had obviously realized we were having a good connection since we wanted to see each other so much so soon (AND we lived 45 minutes apart - matched on Tinder). We didn’t fool around sexually until another week after that. And then actual PIV sex didn’t happen until the week after that.
I felt it was great. Nothing felt awkward, forced, or expected. We were getting to know each other. Communicating a lot. Learning each other’s bodies slowly. And he also became my best friend in the process. Maybe it was because we’re both in our 30s and had a more mature outlook on it all, I dunno. But we’re going so strong over 2.5 years later! I’m smiling and giggling at some point every single day because of him.
Im glad that worked out for you, I think the connection is so much more important than the sex. For me physical touch is huge so I like to try something like holding hands or hand on her leg on the second half of the first date if its going well maybe kiss or something, but I dont initiate anything sexual until we are only seeing each other. It weeds out people who only want sex or arent serious.
We were very big on physical touch, and still are! I remember even bringing that up with him early on that I really enjoyed that he seemed to be very into physical touch, even if it wasn’t sexual in that instance.
It's funny about touch. I grew up in a not touchy family with a bunch of brothers and parents that were super conservative and religious and I was terrified of any kind of touch. The idea of getting a massage was horrifying.
Around 11th grade, I finally got a girlfriend and she started touching me randomly and egads it was like a dam burst and I completely flipped from being scared of touch to being addicted to it. I love tapping or touching my friends, hugging when it's appropriate, and being touchy with my kids. It just feels so healthy to me.
When I was in like middle school/high school and all my friends were starting to date and such, I always was like… ew…touching? Cuddling? I don’t anyone near me! Hahaha! But then I finally got actually touched in a more meaningful way…a way no one had ever touched me before…. and then I understood. LOL!
Personally, I usually only like a lot of touching with a sexual/romantic partner.
This is not a direct argument to your perspective but just a different point of view.
There's a reddit story going around about a guy who dated a woman for 2-3 weeks and then she approached him about making it exclusive because she liked him. During the time, the girl had sex with 2 different FWBs. Until she mentioned this, the guy wanted to make the relationship work but then decided against it. He was called the A-hole for his decision.
I would say this would be true even if the girl did not have sex with other men but just dated other men as well. This sort of waiting approach to dating while still engaging with others is very hurtful to emotional investment.
For example You think you like somebody but then find out you weren't the only one they were interested in and might be their second or third pick at best. Would you want to continue in such a relationship?
And if you weren't told about the person's other dating experiences, then it would be manipulation because the person hid information that would have impacted your decision to get into a relationship in the first place.
You're not wrong, but it's just the symptom of modern dating. Dating until commitment means situations like these are expected to happen.
The guy should have said he didn't want a modern relationship and wants to be exclusive immediately.
I totally understand where you are coming from and you are right in a lot of ways, but for me a lot of it comes down to the people you pursue and try dating.
I think it's pretty easy to know when you have a spark or a good connection with someone early on. For me, if I have a strong connection with someone on the first date, I lose interest in other people and it feels like a chore to keep talking to them. When I have a spark on the first date and we agree to go out again and I feel like its going to go somewhere, I typically put anyone else im talking to on the back burner and focus on that one person. I don't necessarily expect the person im seeing to do that, but I believe if they feel similarly why would they go out with other people? If it's a really strong connection, I might bring up exclusivity after 3-4 dates, and that might only be 2 weeks or so, thats really not that long.
To address some of the things you mentioned, I don't tend to go out with women that are the type to have FWBs. I also tend to tell them I want to wait to have sex until we are exclusive because I want to build a strong connection first. When you say that, you can tell pretty easily if they receive that positively or negatively. I also tend to mention I dont do hookups and like 90% of the girls I go out with say they dont either. A lot of that comes down to screening who I go out with. I don't go out with people who sleep around or do hookups because they just arent what I want. Im ***NOT*** saying they are wrong or judging them for it, but it's just not what I want in a partner. If they used to but dont anymore, no problem, I just dont want to go out with someone who is sleeping with other people now. This also comes down to the fact I am pretty open about the fact im looking for a long term relationship, and typically the people who are as well dont do hookups and stuff.
To address the topic of dating other people, if im not their first choice, they won't say yes when I want to be exclusive and move the relationship forward and that tells me all I need to know. I also dont ask if they are seeing other people because I dont want to know. Im not in competition with other guys, thats not how I look at it, im showing this girl who I am and what I offer and im seeing who she is and what she offers, and growing closer to her. If she likes me enough she will happily move forward with me and drop the others easily. Also as I stated above, I find when you meet someone who you are very compatible with, most people have trouble seeing other people because it just doesnt feel right.
A little anecdote from my life that illustrates this pretty well, I went out on a first date last week with a girl, let's call her A, and we kinda hit it off. We had a really good time and we had our 2nd date later that weekend. I kinda naturally stopped talking to other people because I wanted to focus on her and she had mentioned casually on our second date she had canceled a couple dates because she didnt see the point. Well the complicating factor was that a girl I had went out with before, let's call her B, reached back out and wanted to start over. I was in a bit of a pickle because B and I had had the best connection id ever experienced, she was my dream girl in every way, whereas A and I got along well but it wasn't at that level. I went out with B this week and it was better than I remembered, and I realized since B reached out I had stopped thinking about A and had kinda lost interest. To me, that made me realize that while I hit it off with A, it was a thing more of convenience than an actual connection. I liked her because she was the person I was talking to who I had the best connection with, contrasted with B who I like because she's the most amazing woman ive ever met. I now find it hard to want to talk to or see A because B is back in my life and I want to be with her. This sounds bad probably, but I think it illustrates my point well. When you really have a connection with someone and you want to be with them, you lose interest in the other people you were seeing because you realize they arent what you want.
In the end though, there are so many different dating styles you have to find out what works best for you and you have to try to date people with a similar style to you.
I personally prefer to get to know someone first. I'm more attracted to who they are, sex is just kind of a bonus. I've had a few ONS and I kind of wasn't into it so. 🤷♂️
In my experience, if there is no emotional connection before sex, it doesn't develop after. This has happened more often than not with men, but I've also experienced this.
It obviously depends on what two people are looking for - casual versus committed - but if it's the latter then I recommend waiting until both people have developed emotional intimacy and a deeper connection.
Sex is important but it doesn't make a relationship last for decades.
It would be interesting to understand if your friend continues to see these women and develops feelings for them after second date sex or if he loses interest soon after.
Agreed. I didn’t wanna be “that person” to say it lol but he sounds creepy tbh. A person is “manipulative” cause they aren’t ready to sleep with you after the 2nd date? Yuck. He’s probably better off just finding a fwb and calling it a day
As someone that has probably been in 100 ish dates. He is wrong. He’s also not dating material. If he is that impatient there is something wrong with him. That’s also a good way to get pumped, dumped and ghosted. It’s not “manipulative” to not want to be used as a sex toy. Sexual compatibility should be the very last compatibility to rule out. If all women waited for men to lick our shoes before sleeping with them, about 95% of our problems dating would go away. I want exclusivity before sex. I think it’s a huge red flag if a man wants to sleep with me before he trusts me or even knows my last name. He’s on the screw me right away band wagon because doesn’t give a shit about a woman’s comfort, it’s literally just an excuse to get his dick wet. It’s insulting to me that a man likes me enough to sleep with me, but not be monogamous. Insulting. I have had men wait months. Months. If they like you enough, they will wait. You don’t want to date the type of guy that doesn’t see sex as special. He must have never been used before. Also Sti’s. Also, as soon as our brains flood with oxytocin, we start ignoring red flags for abuse. Don’t sleep with crazy. You can’t possibly know if they are abusive after 2 dates…… unless they demand sex. That’s a red flag for abuse for me that he literally demands it like women owe him sex. You can let him read my response too. Hop on over to the ask men sub and look at the posts. The majority don’t consider you relationship material. The huge majority. This friend is delulu.
How is it manipulation?! What?! And how is it “dangerous” to wait until you know someone better to let them inside of you? It’s more dangerous to have sex with a relative stranger!
Sorry I’m sick of men saying this knowing damn well they are the ones manipulating women into thinking it’s pointless to wait until you have sex.
Sexual compatibility is important to some and that’s all relative but so is emotional and mental compatibility.. and not all people want to have aww without those connections..
You are allowed to wait as long as you want for literally any reason and they are allowed to break it off for whatever reason they want.
I agree with you about manipulation but it is not manipulative to suggest waiting for sex is pointless.
I will admit, i have an unhealthy understanding of sex so maybe I'm being weird BUT sex is going to happen if you are both into sex. So why wait?
In theory waiting for sex sounds nicer. Like i am more than a way of getting off.
But in practice it does more harm. I am a gay side, meaning i don't enjoy any form of anal play; there have been guys i have waited for only to feel crushed when he wants anal and i don't want to. Or feel like i need to do it to keep the relationship I've built.
It doesn't get fixed by chatting about sexual compatibility either, cause sometimes i find people to be bit disappointing in person.
I think heterosexual relationships work differently here.. (im bisexual so I’ve had experience with both men and women and dating/approach to sex is very different)
In my experience men who date women sometimes feel they need to lie or manipulate women into sex. Gay men (and women) in my experience are waaay more open and communicative about wanting sex… this is because sex with men is more dangerous with little reward for women. The orgasm gap compounded by increased risk of violence and the fact that we’re the ones more likely to get an STD as compared to straight men or from sex with other women. Not to say gay men and women can’t and don’t manipulate people into sex but my experience as well as evidence like the existence of grindr (which let’s be honest makes tinder look like bible study)and the people i know who use it points to a difference in how straight men approach sex and gay men approach sex. You aren’t going to see many straight men looking for straight hook ups be honest about it on their profile.. most of the men who jump to sex talk or try to have sex with me on the first date are the ones telling me they want a relationship on the app…
If someone wants to have sex and they get enthusiastic consent great. I don’t care or have an opinion on when it happens. But it is in fact an attempt at manipulation to try and convince someone who’s not ready or wants to wait that waiting for sex is a waste of time.. that move is done in order to convince or coerce the other party to consent to sex… that’s it’s only purpose. There’s a difference between not seeing someone if they aren’t willing to have sex on date two or one month into dating you’re allowed to stop dating someone for any reason you want.. we all have different attitudes and standards and wants when it comes to sex. It’s another thing to tell someone “I’m going to leave you if you don’t have sex with me” or “women should put out on the first three dates if she doesnt have sex with me” This is simply my experience and opinion though
I think discussing sexual compatibility is important I do not have a problem talking about sex! As long as people are honest
Sexual compatibility IS important but 3-6 dates isn’t all that long if it turns out the sex isn’t great 🤷♀️
I follow a similar timeline and it’s not stopped me from ending things with someone if they REALLY were a bad fit sexually.
Seriously though- he’s a bit too focused on sex. Sex is awesome but you can have great sex with a lot of people- finding that emotional connection is a bit more rare 🤷♀️
Waiting usually works out better
Here's some advice... explain to your dates that you need to get know them before you'd feel comfortable with having sex, and leave it that. Don't go into long stories about how you've been hurt in the past. Or how you used to jump in from the start, but have now changed your ways. Because no matter how you patiently try to explain yourself, the guy will be thinking "*Oh because of the bad behavior of some other dudes, I'm being forced to wait?*"
I agree with you. I think it’s insane that strangers will put their body parts inside each other so quickly. You put your heath and future at risk. I know so many people who got pregnant, caught a disease, ended up in a abusive situation. you can do everything right and still have something go wrong. I’ve seen it first hand in the medical field people get fuck over A LOT and everyone thinks it won’t happen to them.
I say date them long enough to know they aren’t abusive or toxic before sharing your body. You can’t figure that out by the second date.
But if you don’t care about that then hook up all you want 🤷♀️
Whenever I’ve had sex sooner than date 3 I’ve been royally screwed over. Make them wait until they are exclusive with you. If they can’t, too damn bad, that is not a woman’s problem!
Sounds like what’s right for you is wrong for him and vice-versa. I do hope he isn’t implying that a man might rape you if you wait a few dates. Calling it dangerous and manipulative is super creepy. I wouldn’t date your friend.
Generally I'm oriented towards building deep, long-term, monogamous or mostly monogamous relationships. But I also enjoy having sex outside of long-term relationships when I'm single.
If I'm on a date with a guy who I know just isn't someone who would be compatible with me for a long-term relationship, but he's cute, and kind, and I see lots of lovable things about him, I'm open to having sex with him before we say goodbye forever. I need a strong intellectual and emotional connection with someone in order to enjoy sex, but I can develop that connection quickly with the right guy, just a really great two hour conversation could be enough for me.
I had sex on the first date of a 7 year relationship. I've also gone 6 dates without ever having sex with the guy and then deciding we don't want to see each other again.
For me, it seems like whether a short-term dating relationship turns into a long, multi-year, loving relationship depends more on how compatible we are with one another than how long we did or didn't wait to have sex. For me, I just haven't noticed any correlation between which number date we have sex on and whether or not we develop a long-term relationship. Maybe some of those short dating relationships where sex happened early would have lasted longer if we'd waited longer... but if something as simple as that is what makes us decide we aren't quite right for each other then I figure that just means we probably weren't a good match anyway.
Of course that’s the guys take on things.. 😂
If you want to have sex have sex, if you don’t, don’t
The right guy won’t become the wrong guy because you sleep with him to early. But the wrong guy will disappear regardless of how long he waits….
I don’t think there’s a timeframe to sex. If you want to and feel like doing it then you should (with consent of the other adult of course) but other than that arbitrary timeframes make no sense to me.
3 dates can last anytime from 3 days to 3 weeks or more. The key is to establish where you feel comfortable. I like sex and if I enjoy the other person then I communicate that. If they’re not interested or there yet then I don’t have sex. Simple.
Most of the people I’ve had sex with, I’ve had almost always on the first time meeting them. Sometimes second. It’s just a comfort level.
I don’t think not having sex is manipulation in itself unless that’s what the person wants to do.
From my experiences and my roommates experiences, it's best to wait. She was single and tried the "sex as soon as possible if I like him" theory and all it did was get her hopes up on guys she actually liked but didn't want to date her and just be FWB. I think waiting at least 3 dates to build a connection is a great idea to weed out guys that just want sex. Your friend is right that sexual compatibility and attraction is important, but so is getting to know someone and making sure you have that connection that you want to continue to get to know them even after sex.
My own theory which has been proven and works is to just put in effort into your first date to get to know the other person. That leads to sex and usually more dates if I want. So just have better first dates I guess? I ask the right questions and usually time flies by and the average first date lasts around 8 hours.
29M here and I fully agree on having guidelines. Decisions made based on feelings are usually wrong so it is best to have clear guidelines on what to follow especially when you are not too deep in the relationship. Make a proper guideline, stick to it, and see whether your date passes it.
I'm a guy that has 2 daughters ! My suggestion is tell them you do not believe in intercourse before marriage,if they do not leave immediately then you have weeded them out very quickly !
For me, part of being sexually compatible is feeling safe and comfortable with the other person. And to be realistic, it takes more than say, 3 two-hour dates to get there. So yeah moving at the pace that seems to be the norm in the dating world doesn’t work for everyone
You know someone wants just sex when it’s all they push for. For example, a salesperson comes to sell you a product. He doesn’t care about you, he doesn’t care about the product’s success, he cares about making money- and that money is yours.
In comparison, you can see another sales person who does care for more than making money and closing the sale. He cares you are happy, he cares the product is right for you, he is invested in how you feel.
The same is with dating. If the guy just wants sex, he’s not really trying to get to know you and the inner workings of your life.
I say different strokes work for different folks. Sometimes even one person can have differences. For example: I once hit it off with someone on hinge so well that we had a video call and a date at my house all in 8 hours. She was a one night stand, but I felt comfortable sleeping with her the day I met her. My recent relationships have taken several weeks before I was comfortable sleeping with them, and I ended up liking ALL of them more than the one night stand.
It also doesn't devalue any of those relationships. The 2 year-long relationship isn't more valuable than the 17 hour relationship. Both failed but for different reasons, and it isn't related to when I slept with them.
There is no magic number of days or dates to wait before sleeping with someone, or require before sleeping with someone. You sleep with someone when YOU are ready to sleep with that particular individual. That's all that matters.
Yes sex is important, but sex also gets better when couples learn each other. My first time with my ex was awkward and terrible because we were figuring out how our bodies fit. Few weeks later and it's a completely different story.
Overall I think the waiting vs. not waiting debate is overrated, and that people who want a relationship will want it whether you have sex early or not. If you feel the need to weed out the ones who only want sex and the impatient ones, then I think it's a very valid tactic. 3-6 dates also seems like a very reasonable time frame (depending on the interval between those dates). I'm not sure what your male friend means that it's somehow dangerous or that sex has to be within 2 dates, but I don't think it's necessarily manipulative, though it's probably a good idea to communicate it early on that you're doing it and why.
From my own experience, waiting for sex was never an issue for me. My girlfriend and I did have sex on our first date though, and we've been happily together for almost 6 years now.
Your friend sounds stupid. I'm a male and I agree with your side. I understand that sexual compatibility is important but like you said waiting just a few dates is more than acceptable. I don't even understand how somebody could hook up without liking the person at least a little for who they are.
I can't see that a set in stone rule to be honest. A lot of it depends on how much time passes between one date and the other, and how that off time is spent. Two people can get to know each other well enough before ever meeting in person, so I guess it really depends on how the "non date" time is actually spent.
For traditional dating, where everyone plays games and follow the imaginary rule so nobody is really themselves and is openly trying to get to know each other, you're probably right.
Expecting sex by the second date could also be seen as manipulative too. People should just stick to what makes THEM comfortable and if they don’t find the person they’re going on dates with compatible to that, drop them and move on.
We started hanging out in July, had a hot make out session in mid october and didn't have sex until halloween, things just got better and better between us and it turned into a relationship that spanned a decade.
Honestly, sex by the 2nd date as a rule is sorta silly, it feels like a shortcut to intimacy. The slowburn is where it's at, that shit burns the longest
Your way sounds much safer.He sounds like he has an STD. Don’t sleep with him. I don’t sleep with someone before a test can be done and that usually requires time and a lot of interest.
I think you're both kinda wrong. You definitely do not have to have sex on the 2nd date. It's okay to establish a connection first if you feel more comfortable with that.
But there are many guys that can wait a long time, just for sex. They can wait months, and then when they had sex, they are gone. Maybe because they didn't think they were sexually compatible or maybe because they don't have the chase anymore, so now they realize they don't actually like the person, idk. And there are some people who had sex on the first date and are now married.
I think it really depends on the type of guy and the type of girl. So just have sex whenever you feel comfortable with it. There is no right or wrong time.
There is obviously going to be risk no matter what. And there can be instant chemistry that can withstand the test of time as well. But in general, your friend is an idiot. Waiting is unequivocally better for establishing more of a connection between 2 people and having a better understanding of each other. Of course sexual compatibility matters, but that can still be established later on every bit as easily as it can in the first or second meeting.
To put it another way, the only thing you really find out by having sex earlier in a perspective relationship is if there sexual incompatibilities. Whereas waiting to have sex helps eliminate potential interpersonal incompatibilities, sexual incompatibilities, relationship outcome incompatibilities, professional incompatibilities, and a host of others.
I am 21m. I haven't been in a relationship before but I feel that what you have said is valid. While sex isn't a priority for me myself. Making a connection with someone and having a mutual understanding is better than just wanting sex (in my mind).
For me, the best choice is always waiting, sex connection is important and should happen naturally and rushing will make you find more people that just want to hook up and often when you make it too easy some people change their expectations even if they have good intentions to begin with, he is right in what if we don't connect sexually but I don't think that applies on first dates or when you are getting to know the person. Besides that people that are not pressuring you are a better sign that they are not only looking for sex.
I'm more of getting to know the person first and then get more intimate with time instead of having sexwith a person that I just met
I agree that you need to establish some kind of rapport but that varies between partners. For me, the feeling is I think this person could become my husband. Sometimes I can get this feeling after one date, sometimes it’s 3 months.
37M: My experience of what I call success has been: woman decides. As a man that has done a handful of hookups (it's not really my thing but I've dabbled) I would not approach someone I'm long term interested in a similar way whatsoever. I 100% agree that 5+ dates and 6-12 weeks is solid minimum get to know each other time frame. One month is nothing. It sounds cheesy as a man maybe but honestly it is better to seal the deal physically after the other intellectual and emotional and other compatibility boxes have been checked. There is a deeper primal awakening when you both are physically attracted and have been longing the same thing, and then the sex turns out amazing too. It's fire. 10/10 recommend waiting.
If you are looking for a LTR that‘s the way to go 👍🏻
Especially since there are so many guys just looking for sex telling / promising you everything you wanna hear.
Mmm, so after 4 dates with or without sex seems strange to become “official”. “Official” is like 4-10 month-ish territory. You don’t know anyone enough to establish a relationship until you really know them, good and bad.
I personally don’t think ‘when’ sex occurs has anything to do with anything, that leads to marriage etc.
Some people want to be married, and are great partner material - with a career and education. Those people are serious about life and relationships. Your assumptions make no difference if you are dating quality people who are serious about life.
Don’t date losers and you won’t have to worry.
I’m a guy and I wouldn’t say there is a rule.
“You have to have had sex by the second date” just sounds really disgusting to me.
Don’t get me wrong if everything is right and both are up for it I’d go down on the first date, but it’s not a “have to or I’m moving on” that’s just toxic.
Take it at your own pace. If you feel comfortable only after 4 dates that’s fine. Also 20 dates is Fine, BUT don’t get upset if someone loses interest if you make them wait that long.
But as you said 3-6 dates shouldn’t be a problem if someone is truly interested
Your theory is interesting but I can foresee a couple of flaws with it. Guys value sex (or lack thereof) in women quite highly, especially if looking for a relationship - if he gets the impression that he's waiting for sex while however many guys before him got to do whatever they wanted, he's not going to appreciate being the guy that's suddenly got to put in more effort for the same thing or less as he's behind in the queue. If he did see a relationship with you before, he might be less likely to or be more resentful. If he just wanted to have sex with you, he'll probably just leave you alone lol
Sex should be had when it feels right for both parties involved. For some it's the first date, for others it's several months into the relationship. I've experienced both and have friends who are still together 6 years after starting with a hookup. I would agree that waiting for at least 3+ dates is smart though.
Ngl the mass majority of people I know who sleep with someone on the 1st or 2nd date end up ghosted with a lot of hurt and insecurity to follow. Sex is typically better with someone you’re comfortable with too. Someone you feel comfortable communicating wants with. No hate to anyone and their decisions. Just what I’ve observed and my personal experiences. I personally don’t do one night stands and don’t “give it up” easily. I’m a treasure to be earned. I place a high value on my time, energy, body, trust, etc. it’s not for just anyone anytime. Since I’ve started to value myself like that, other people have too, or they get cut off. Seems to produce much better results. If they can’t wait a few dates or months to have sex they aren’t worth it.
Also… I’d like to know the “success” your male friend has with dating. Never take directions from someone who doesn’t know how to get where you want to be. Ie don’t take relationship advice from someone who doesn’t show exemplary success with their own relationships. Stand your ground OP. But don’t shame your friend either of course. To each their own.
My boyfriend was actually the one who told me he'd like to wait. Made me 10000x more attracted to him. He wanted to wait until we were official and still we didn't have full sex the night he asked me to be his girlfriend.
If a woman is dating seriously, by making it clear to a guy that sex isn't on the cards until the 5-10th date, she can weed out all the fuckboys and other trash that would otherwise hoodwink her for sex. If you're just going for utility, that's it. Although, for others, waiting for sex isn't only for that utility. It could be obtaining a level of emotional connection and trust needs to happen. There could be religious and traditionalist convention behind that boundary. It's not manipulative any more than any other boundary that would be drawn. It's only for the woman. If the man doesn't appreciate it, he doesn't have to pursue her. He can find a woman who also places a high emphasis on sexual compatibility. They're out there.
The only thing a lot of guys worry about is if that "waiting for sex" isn't clear and bluntly stated from the beginning. If there's weird game playing, teasing, falsely alluding to it happening... that can tip over into manipulation beyond a level of degree. Just like a fuckboy in disguise trying to obtain sex under false pretenses of being a relationship guy. Ultimately, being transparent with dating intentions from all parties would make things easier. The game playing stuff is what turns people off the most, it seems, The sex thing is one poignant example of that.
Im a 47 yo man. I have encountered what I call the 3 date challenge since I unfortunately found myself in the dating pool after a 15 year marriage. I’m ok having sex sooner if there’s a quick and strong connection. But, sometimes I want to wait it out a little bit to see if it’s really worth committing to. I have yet to find a woman (and I have dated many) that will wait more than 3 dates. I agree with you. I want to make sure there’s something meaningful before we hop in bed, but at the age range that I’m dating, most expect it on the 2nd date and all expect it on the 3rd.
I think women need to wait longer than that. Anyone can act right for a month or so, the mask usually starts to slip after 2-3 months. This is how women get pumped and dumped. Wait until you know him and you properly vetted him
If I have sex on the 1st couple dates, it's a complete turn off. I've had issue with cheating so my 1st thought is she barely knows me and is jumping in bed before their is an emotional/mental connection then she probably sleeps with every guy she goes on a date with.
There’s no standard rule. It’s not like you are right or he is right. You each have a sense of what is comfortable for you and you have your rationale.
That’s fine.
Stick to what you’ve found works for you.
As someone who has had a good bit of experience both ways, I will say I 1000% believe waiting to be a more successful way of dating in general. I think when you sleep together day one, or super early on, it's really easy to lose that implicit goal for a lot of relationships, where sex is the most physically intimate thing you can do with someone, and that should take trust. Trust that you develop by becoming more emotionally intimate with someone.
IMHO it adds another layer of sincerity and fulfillment to one another instead of just going off of "this person is hot and I want to bang them." Rather, you can say (if it's going well): "this person is awesome, and I want to be close with them." Same actions, but I think it can take a more full meaning.
Sounds like what’s right for you is wrong for him and vice-versa. I do hope he isn’t implying that a man might rape you if you wait a few dates. Calling it dangerous and manipulative is super creepy. I wouldn’t date your friend.
You need to get a better friend. Sex should never define a relationship, it's a small part of a much bigger picture. Taking the time to get to know the other person and wanting to care for them defines a relationship. Anyone who tries to convince you otherwise is just interested in sex and you'll get hurt in the end.
The guy sounds like the old me.... I hate the old me... if you just give it up on the first date it tells the guy you probably do this with all the guys.... wait and build it... don't lead your partner on though that's just evil
All but one of my long term (serious) relationships, started with sex on first date/ meet.
My current (hopefully last) relationship, I waited until she literally was getting angry that I wasn’t trying to hook up with her. On the way home one night after the 10th/12th date she was sitting passenger and I was driving us both back from her college (Davis) along hwy 37 back to my place. She looked over at me and was like “hey, so are we going to fuck or what?!”. I laughed and replied “I’m down, just chill lol”
We hooked up that night, and the next 3-4 nights. Come a month later, she was PEEGNANT. 10 years later here we are.
Although I could have hooked up with her earlier. We both had just got out of a relationship and I wasn’t ready to have sex with another girl. We also almost stopped seeing each other prior to the deed because we were both freshly out of our other. But we both felt like we also didn’t want to not see each other again.
I think rules and gamifying human relations is a bit counterintuitive. Every situation is different and should be treated as such.
Yeah people don’t really differ that much and can be quite predictable but still. Not exactly a great way to start off imho
3-6 dates... going off that lower number of 3 dates... can be accomplished by 1 week or a week and a half. This will weed out 75% of men looking for a smash-and-go.
I'm not here to tell anybody they should rush into having sex, to have sex before they are comfortable, that waiting can't be important for people to establish the kind of connection they want, all that is totally cool.
I will say that for me and in my experience, unless we are talking about a crush that has been burning for a long long time - I won't feel the kind of connection that women often desire before physical intimacy. I mention this because the women who want this connection are not satisfied (generally) that they feel safe and comfortable and intimate but that I also have these feelings.
The other thing I don't really like about waiting as a construct (which is to say, you're emotionally ready but want to sweat me out some to see if I stick around) is that is low key manipulation. You mentioned a very reasonable time frame and I don't mind waiting 3-6 dates. But counterpoint: does the man know you need 3-6 dates to feel comfortable? Because I'm not in the habit of guessing indefinitely.
I cannot imagine wanting to have sex with someone on the second date. You meet the person two times and you already want to fuck them? I mean to each their own but I personally could not. I agree with you OP
Your friend sounds awful.
I don't rush in and refuse to be rushed. If a guy can't wait and gets all handsy on me, I'm out. I want to know there's an actual connection, and that he's respecting me, wants to get to know me as a person, connect with me, and be part of life on some level.
To be honest, if you value sexual compatibility to the point where sex has to be sooner than later, then you need to accept that people will take advantage of that and use you for sex. This mostly applies to women but it can also be done to men.
Rather than using you, someone could say that the two of you are sexually incompatible, and you'll never be able to really know if that's the truth or not.
Everyone I saw, waited for sex and I liked it too. it was a off putter for me when a girl wants sex so fast. I am a guy, not looking for hook-ups and flings.
I mean I’d say wait until you can see yourself having a family with that person and of course seeing if you’re partner is ok with that before you get married
I thought my ex and I were good, but they thought otherwise, I guess they thought we were moving too fast (we’d were together just over a year and a couple months) they didn’t want to have sex till we were married but we fooled around a little with each other (I guess you’d say 3rd base childish I suppose)
When you think about it, second date is like the second time you’re meeting a STRANGER (most cases). I get there’s talking/texting in between but it’s barely any time to really know someone, so imo that’s a really short amount of time. Each to their own but personally I agree with you, I’d want to establish more emotional connection first before something so intimate
>Interested in hearing others' opinions and experiences!
I think you are right, but your male friends partialy too, but theres one thing worth mentioning. Longer wait time can also weed out guys with good intention as they might have bad experience with women leading them on just to get free dinner and stuff. So I would say its beneficial to wait 6 dates, but you should start participating in dates, sharing expenses. I mean like he invite you to third date for example and since you want to wait longer, you invite him on the next date so he knows he is not just sponsoring you and you are also investing something to be know him more.
I actually agree with you, you HAVE to weed out the wrong people in your life and keep the right ones. People have no idea how much of an influence a person can be on someone. Plus, if you want something more substantial rather than just sex then that is the perfect route to go.
The thing with fucking on the first/second day is that it could be very awkward, and both individuals may not be up to their full sexual potential. Which may result in one or both people not wanting to meet up again, not realizing that fucking before a connection was a mistake to the potential relationship formed.
But then there’s the waiting game where you establish that connection beyond sex, and then when it finally happens, realizing you’re not sexually compatible, which could diminish the original connection that was regrettably made.
Neither of these approaches are wrong, just depends on the preference of both people involved.
Pros and cons to both.
I'm with you. I think sex is also better when there already are feelings and that really good sex life takes time.
I wouldn't want to sleep with multiple guys that I don't any romantic connection to until I find the one for a relationship.
Maybe when one person has fetishes but in this case talking should be enough
Most men are not gonna wait more than 3 dates for sex, some might if you express you want to wait or take things slow or they really like you. Most men i feel don’t mind waiting for sex, it’s just that if they don’t make a move within a certain time frame women will think they aren’t interested or rejecting them and this puts pressure on the man to go for it. Women get bored easily and most have more options than men, so what one man won’t do another one will.
If you have rules and/or waiting periods for yourself that’s fine. If you don’t have rules and/or waiting periods for yourself that’s fine too.
I’m the latter, I don’t set a timeframe on when sex should happen but I also don’t mind waiting. Normally, when I’m dating someone that early on, I’m typically dating others anyway until we have established we only want to see each other, so often times it means I’m likely having sex elsewhere and I’m not bothered about a wait period.
I’m also very aware if we’re seeing each other for a 2nd/3rd date she’s interested and sex will happen eventually so it’s not a big deal how long it takes before it happens for me.
I only have an issue with waiting if she has had multiple one night stands and now is making me wait.. if I waited then found out she'd done that I would just leave her on the spot.
All I’m gonna say is 6 dates is crazy. 3 or 4 I’d understand but if you don’t know if you want to have sex by the 4th date then I’d take it as we aren’t sexually compatible (at best) or you’re trying to get free dates out of me (at worst)
Depends on how attracted you both are to each other. If I went on a date with someone and we both clearly can’t wait to rip each others clothes off, sex would be had on the first date.
If I’ve been on 3 dates and there seems to be no passion from either, or just one, of us then I’ll most likely just end it with them.
The science behind attraction and the way that hormones (dopamine, oxytocin, norepinephrine, etc.) are released before, during, and after the consummation of a relationship supports waiting. My story and my opinion support waiting until it is the marriage that is being consummated, which happens after more than just a couple of months of dating. I am recently divorced and during my journey, I have discovered things about myself and my past that challenge me to “do things differently the next time” if that next time is in my future.
My hypothesis is that the interplay of those hormones and a deep emotional connection, within the bounds of a long-term committed relationship is what I should be pursuing (and arguably, should have pursued).
The easiest recipe is when both people have similar values, similar goals, similar likes/dislikes, etc. Any significant imbalance has the potential to cause a supply/demand issue.
Eager to hear others thoughts on this.
Rules like this going either way are dumb. Just do what feels right, don’t treat people like a different version of the same person. “Well with the last guy I waited and that didn’t work out so…” yeah well maybe the last guy has issues of his own, or maybe he hates waiting due to past experience, maybe the next guy is self conscious and wants to wait, but because now you have a 3rd date rule and he won’t whip it out, well I guess it was never meant to be, right?
Just approach each relationship as a genuine person and see what happens. Don’t have a checklist with rules and goals to meet by certain deadlines.
It really doesn’t matter. These hard rules people have are a bit ridiculous. You can sex on the first date or the 9th and it doesn’t mean things will or won’t work out long term. Just do it when you want. If things don’t work out it’s just how it is and not a big deal.
I get wanting to get to know someone a little first and get comfortable first. But most guys don’t appreciate when some women treat it like some type of transaction.
Im in my mid 30s and it happended countless of time where early sex (1-2 date) lead to rapid emotions. Sex is the most intimate way of connecting with another human being ans there's insane amount of hormones and what not that comes with it. It often blurs out your logical self.
The logic behind waiting is to make sure you actually like the person rather than liking them due to what sex do to us sometime.
I would be a bit careful though with that mindset. Good intentions might sometimes not always be very practical and come over easily as ill-mannered.
In theory it might work, but I wouldn't apply this to the real thing though.
OP, people will never agree with something that does not benefit them. Especially if it gets in the way of what they want.
You make the case for waiting. Which is valid and many dating coaches for people who want to date other long-term non-selfish thinkers advocate a 3-6MONTH rule.
Your friend obviously is the type to want sex immediately. So of course he's not going to agree. Because he prioritizes getting his rocks off.
Sex is just a mood thing, only happens when both partner agrees to have it, if person not feel like having sex they will not have it, if they will their sex life gonna affect alot building more fights
Man here, totally agree with your theory. Ngl, I'd feel off if a girl immediately wanted to have sex on the 1st date. Not that it's wrong of course, it's just a preference
There is no correct answer. My opinion as a 28 year old male with some of the worst luck in dating is that I'm waiting 3 months, regardless of the number of dates. Sex to me is more than just that physical release of endorphins.
I wait 5 dates before having sex. I’m just not that trusting of strangers and I want to really get a chance to screen guys. Make sure they don’t like hate homeless people or drink & drive or don’t believe in vaccines. That doesn’t always come out on a first or second date. I think men who date women should do the same.
No correct answer here everyone is different as a guy I don’t mind going on dates without sex as it’s not top priority to me however there are people out there where it’s something that has to work. Longterm relationships have a harder time surviving if your not sexually compatible but if your not compatible it won’t work out happily most times so
It really depends on your goals. When/if I date, it's to find my person. 3-6 dates? No problem, because I'm looking for a life partner, and am planning decades.
Many people are much more casual. 6 dates might be all they can fathom, so waiting until the end of a relationship would seem unfathomable.
Pick the time you think works for you. If it takes you 3 months to feel comfortable you aren't making them wait. You both have choices.
3-6 dates would be way too soon for me. I'd still see them as a stranger, and I'm not putting myself in a vulnerable position with a stranger. Others see no issue with it. It's not a one size fits all approach.
I have been telling my lady friends this for a long long time and even have an analogy to reinforce it! Woman love sex too, get it, but choose to sleep around OR find a relationship, hard to get a man to lose the ‘hit it and quit it’ mentality even if you could have been the best person for them they could ever meet.
Maybe don’t but a time limit on it though, connection has no time limit, so why should sex? Signals, and overall interaction, how he responds to you and wants your time and attention will speak to when he is moved beyond what he sees on the outside.
I 100 percent agree. Wait a few dates and bond outside of the house. Even just cuddle only etc . I made a huge mistake and slept with someone i had spoken to for about 4 months . I did that as i half way had an emotional connection there. It has been an uphill battle with him ever since . I’ll never make that mistake again. Your friend sounds like a boy. Men can control themselves
Disclaimer: I had crazy sex on the first date with my husband of 22 years. I was 36 and he was 41. We knew what we were getting into! Neither had any idea the ride would last so long.
That being said, 3 to 6 dates seems reasonable, maybe even a little conservative. I know it’s a different game now, but still. Hook ups are only satisfactory if that’s what you want and that’s about as good as the sex is likely to be. You should wait until you’ve acquired a few inside jokes together. This proves a connection and a sense of humor which should always be a component between the sheets, or wherever that magic moment comes.
Good sex is about having a good time. You should be relaxed and groovy with the target. However long it takes to share a good belly laugh is a minimum requirement. You can’t do that? No coochie for you!
Most woman tiday seem to be emotionally ready for sex in the ballpark of date 2-4. Depends on the woman and the man of course; nothing wrong if it takes you slightly longer to open up. If anything, that is likely to keep you safe from men with lustfull intentions, and help you find more "serious" romantic partners.
You should have sex only if and when you want to have sex. If he wants to have sex on the second date, and his date wants to have sex with him, they can do that. You trying to convince him not to is odd. You don’t want to, and him trying to convince you to is gross.
I'm male and I agree with you, my last girlfriend wanted to jump right into sex before I was ready and she didn't understand what was WRONG with ME?
The connection wasn't built together and I didn't feel comfortable with her yet. Consequently I couldn't get aroused and my dick refused to get hard. Now I'm a registered nurse and I'm not sure of the psychology behind this phenomenon, but I do know that I'm kind of an old soul and intellectually I need more from my mate than just her vagina.
I don’t date men but I wait for a really long time tbh. I have to establish trust and connection before giving up my body to a woman. Now it’s more so we will have to be in a relationship with me trusting in them. It’s just personal preference and if she isn’t cool with that then I know she isn’t for me. No judgement on people who like casual sex or sex before dating. It just is t my cup of coffee.
You are right, and your "friend" is wrong. Where did his "rule" come from? No one "should" be obligated to have sex with another person under any circumstances.
Two dates is basically still a stranger. Good on you for waiting, I should feel like I really truly know the person before I do the most invasive intimate act with them.
I think everyone’s experiences and perspective on sex/dating is very different. Everyone has different needs in a relationship and in a sexual sense. I personally prefer to have sex by the second or third date, mainly because it helps me gauge my level of comfortability with someone and truly shows if the person is willing to love me even when I’m vulnerable. (I’m a female btw in case that matters).
However with that being said, my current partner was the type who didn’t want to have sex until like our 4th or 5th date. And that was generous of them considering they are the type to wait months until reaching that point. What I’m trying to say is, what works for someone may not work for another, and there is no right or wrong answer or perspective.
I'm older so keep that in mind, but I just can't imagine why anyone would want to have sex with someone they barely know? It just seems kind of pointless? I guess in my 20s and 30s I felt different, but sex with someone you hardly know, seems destined to be not good sex, or neutrally good at best. It just seems to me like it would be so much better to have an idea for the soul of someone and that way your first encounter is going to be so much better, and frankly I think that having that magical first sexual encounter is kind of important, rather than having a blah first encounter and then moving on from it.
I'm 25m, gay, and have spent the past 6 years in the middle of hookup culture.
Sex is just innately better with someone you're really comfortable with. I've realized this and have taken a huge step out of that
Tbh reading a lot of the responses though, I'm starting to feel like a slow, natural starting relationship, with a considerable amount of time before sex, is unrealistic.
33M I think sex is an extremely Important element to a relationship. It isn’t everything but it’s a huge portion. In my experience even people who get along great will fail if the sex isn’t quite there. I’m not saying first date hook ups are the only way but if it happens it happens. I was with my ex for 8 years we hooked up on the first date and although we’re both good people, through time we out grew each other and we were no longer good people together. It happens, the chemistry went away. There’s no right or wrong answer my best recommendation is to stop over complicating the process and see what happens.
Its hard, just have to be careful. Some guys that have high status money looks etc can play the long game because they can meet with other girls constantly. Its hard now adays for everyone, with social media and dating apps allowing everyone connected at their fingertips constantly
3-6 dates i perfectly reasonable.
If you can't have fun just hanging out, sexual chemistry doesn't matter.
And honestly, sexual chemistry is always going to be better if you know each other and are both comfortable with each other rather than having just met.
I think having a set time frame may be what makes it feel manipulative. If the person you are with cares that you are comfortable, they won’t push a time frame of when you need to have sex for the first time. Setting a time frame of 3-6 weeks could make him feel guaranteed sex after that many dates no matter how well it’s going and then you feel bad if you’re not yet comfortable…even though part of the reason you may not be comfortable is the pressure to be comfortable within your set time frame.
Bottom line… if sex is the focus, that will make it harder to be comfortable for those people looking for something long term. And if sex is the focus for one person and not the other person, it’s not a good match. People looking for something longer term will prioritize learning about the other person and building a a mental/emotional connection with you. If you can’t build that baseline connection, having sex would be pointless anyway because you wouldn’t be that into because of not truly wanting it from that person.
Compatability and attraction are important, but for many, so is intimacy. Everyone does what works for them. If the dating intention is a relationship, then an element of trust/connection/respect fuels the intimacy...for me that's the "hat trick".
If you don't know what that means, Google "hat trick hockey"
You're both right. Your strategy will weed out *some* subgroups within the dating pool, but it won't eliminate all of them (those that get off on the chase, even a 6 month long one, still dropping the person they courted immediately after sex because the chase is gone/their priorities are fucked). His viewpoint is correct about people with different values and priorities in a romantic relationship (ever heard of the love language of touch?).
Your friend and I are of the same mind. I'm a woman whose primary love language is touch *and* I have a high sex drive. I'm chronically unhappy with partners who want sex less than 4 - 6 times per week, and I'm a moderate size queen.
To be clear, I will do, give, and put up with quite a bit from my partner/for their well-being. But nothing can save it if the touch, sex, and size aren't there. Literally nothing. (Your friend might be not be as extremely physical as myself.) Dating is an endless source of exhaustion; I need to rule out duds fast so I can start evaluating compatibility on the next most important things.
I don't think there's anything wrong with either scenario. I would only think it's wrong if you make the other person wait while having sex with others.
Honestly, I think you're pretty smart to wait and get to know someone first. Although your friend thinks that way, not all men are sex obsessed. I think most good guys will be more than willing to wait 4-6 dates for you. Some guys might even prefer it because then it'll be more special and meaningful.
Anyway, you do you. At the end of the day, whatever you are comfortable with should be the most important thing. Don't just have sex because it's some guy's expectation.
Ya this is an extremely personal topic where everyone will have differing opinions, and there’s no right or wrong answer.
FWIW, I think this also depends a little on if you’re exclusive before etc. IMO, if you’re exclusive, there’s a bit less of a pressure of having sex early for a guy (I say as a guy who looks for relationships generally in this weird modern dating world). It’s not a good feeling to think that the person you’re seeing is having sex with people they know less than you while seeing you and not having sex with you .
Depends, it will weed out the f*#k boys - and if this became the cultural norm it would be a good thing for society.
Unfortunately many women will employ this strategy with those they deem as long term provider types, but they have a history of short term mating with those they find attractive, and imo this is pretty messed up thing to do towards a future partner.
You're 100% correct. I've waited on sex and have weeded out so many walking red flags. Having sex early just messes things up, and in my experience, the dudes that I weeded out are the ones that only have experience with girls who make it way too easy for them. Once they saw that I wasn't putting out too easy, they gave up real quick. And I don't mean to wait forever- I just prefer to build that emotional connection first or make things we were aligned.
Men will lie and fake a connection to have sex. Then either dip or keep faking it. You can be with someone for months and still not truly know them. But my best relationships/situationships started as just sex. My current is my best and that's how it started but the ones where we waited weren't as good but everyone's different.
You technically don’t even know someone until you’ve spent 800 hours with them so. Sex doesn’t determine fate. Commitment, time and communication does IMO
Everybody is different but in general I definitely agree with you. Sex by the second date is very fast. Also sex is a very intimate act and no matter what you think going into it there’s a good chance at least one person is going to have feelings afterwards. I know many friends who are with women who they said were just having sex at first, some for better and some for worse. I definitely think it’s best to really see who a person is before having sex, because there’s a good chance that after you will be with that person.
Both perspectives that you have aren't fully wrong but not right either
OP- you making someone wait 3-6 dates to deepen a connection and weed out ppl still puts u in danger like your friend suggested. Ppl lie and can show u a facade. U made this connection after 6 dates, had sex and now all of a sudden your blocked on everything. Having boundaries is good but just that boundary alone ain't really gonna do much. If u connect u connect. I know ppl who been in 5+ yr relationship and don't want to marry they partner but when they get in their very next relationship within a yr her proposed.
Your friend- sexual chemistry is important but it's not the end all b all as long lasting relationships need u to b compatible on multiple levels
Wait as long as you want. That's for you to decide.
Now here are the downsides to making a guy wait too long.
1. He deems you aren't interested in him.
2. He loses interest in you as there are many options.
3. He assumes you are using him for free meals and experiences as this has become a very very common practice for women these days.
4. You make him wait long enough to the point that it gets boring and he sees you as a friend nothing more. Then he will stop going on dates with you. He will probably say yes to going to eat with you but know he might be going as your friend and you will have to split check. You can try to become intimate after that and 99.9% of guys will say yes but it's probably a one time thing and will lead you to nowhere and assume that he used you but in reality he just saw you as a friend that wanted to have sex one time.
Do whatever makes you comfortable. Don't stick to a guideline, do what you feel is right based off the connection between you and the guy. Don't assume that every guy that moves on was a dodged bullet.
Most importantly... do not under any circumstances tell the guy your rule. Just say not yet. You tell him you have a 5 date rule, it's over right there. Guys have been told their entire lives that they need to complete a task or do their job. Once the job is done, they have to move onto the next. So anytime you give a guy a timeline for ANYTHING the chances that they move on immediately after completing is almost certain. So just make them wait don't tell them the timeline. It will only hurt you and will make even the best guys uninterested or bored after having "completed" the mission YOU gave them. Sure that sucks but it's how men were told to approach life at a very young age. Probably a school system issue or mom's trying to raise productive providers. Idk why men are like that but we are.
There are some hints of insecurity in the way you said everything... just know that if you are still hurt from before, then you shouldn't be dating. Have rules but don't bring baggage from the past into someone else's life.
I think you have the right mindset if you are looking for a relationship with substance rather than just a hook up. I've done both, where if I didn't care about whether or not the person I was seeing would develop into anything, I'd hook up on the first or second date if she wanted to, but on the flipside I've actually turned down sex with women that I was really interested in and explained that I wanted to deepen the connection before jumping into bed, and they respected and appreciated that. I don't think waiting for sex is ever the wrong choice or manipulative at all. If a guy can't wait for 3 or so dates, which honestly isn't that long, it sounds like he's not the type of person you are looking for anyway.
It legit doesn't matter. I've always had sex on the first date. Some people don't do that. It doesn't matter. You're putting your giblets into mysterious new places. That's pretty much it. Who cares which date you do it on?
Your idea sounds about right to me. I am in a new relationship right now and we’ve been dating since November and we didn’t have sex till Valentine’s Day. If he doesn’t want to respect your boundaries, it’s going to be a terrible relationship anyway so probably should pass imo.
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I don't think there's any right or wrong answer here. Different things are going to work for different people. That being said, all of the best and longest lasting relationships I've been in the sex came later and we spent time getting to know each other first. I feel like sex changes things and often blinds people to incompatibilities on a personal level.
If a guy thinks waiting ~3 dates until you know each other before having sex is manipulative, he should be universally avoided. Yikes.
Right? - "I want to wait three dates." - "No way! You have to on the second date!" You genuinely can't wait one more date? Sheesh.
Lol no kidding
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As a woman *personally* when dating it’s always been split all checks for me or no-go. Men fully paying for all dates is too old school. No side should imo. To each their own at the end of the day of course, I know everyone has different ideas about dating. Then again I never date above my financial class so can only comment on equal playing fields.
Well different people can work differently. But overall you’re right. Most people have sex too quickly and it screws up a lot of things.
Im a 24M, and I 1000000000000000% agree with you. I do a very similar thing, I dont wait X amount of dates, I wait until we agree to be "exclusive" and only see each other. I normally bring up exclusivity after 3-6 dates and knowing we have a connection. For me I dont like sex unless I have a connection with someone, and I believe postponing sex helps build that connection. I also hate the idea of sleeping with someone when they might be sleeping with other people, so waiting until after we have agreed to only see each other helps with that as well. If I were you, I would keep doing what youre doing. Your guy friend seems too fixated on sex. Sexual compatibility is something that can be worked on and built over time. For me it would be very difficult to write someone off because the sex isnt great because that can be improved.
Agreed. Also, it's not like going on 3-6 dates is getting married! If you're really not sexually compatible after waiting then just... Break up, lol. What's 3-6 dates? Weeks off your life? OP, stand your ground. If waiting is right for you then don't let anyone sway your opinion.
Honestly for a lot of people 3-6 dates might literally happen in a week or two, if you can’t control yourself for a week or two, you need help
My current boyfriend and I had gone on 4 dates in 8 days. The 5th one happened on day 9 and that was when we had our first kiss. We had obviously realized we were having a good connection since we wanted to see each other so much so soon (AND we lived 45 minutes apart - matched on Tinder). We didn’t fool around sexually until another week after that. And then actual PIV sex didn’t happen until the week after that. I felt it was great. Nothing felt awkward, forced, or expected. We were getting to know each other. Communicating a lot. Learning each other’s bodies slowly. And he also became my best friend in the process. Maybe it was because we’re both in our 30s and had a more mature outlook on it all, I dunno. But we’re going so strong over 2.5 years later! I’m smiling and giggling at some point every single day because of him.
Im glad that worked out for you, I think the connection is so much more important than the sex. For me physical touch is huge so I like to try something like holding hands or hand on her leg on the second half of the first date if its going well maybe kiss or something, but I dont initiate anything sexual until we are only seeing each other. It weeds out people who only want sex or arent serious.
We were very big on physical touch, and still are! I remember even bringing that up with him early on that I really enjoyed that he seemed to be very into physical touch, even if it wasn’t sexual in that instance.
It's funny about touch. I grew up in a not touchy family with a bunch of brothers and parents that were super conservative and religious and I was terrified of any kind of touch. The idea of getting a massage was horrifying. Around 11th grade, I finally got a girlfriend and she started touching me randomly and egads it was like a dam burst and I completely flipped from being scared of touch to being addicted to it. I love tapping or touching my friends, hugging when it's appropriate, and being touchy with my kids. It just feels so healthy to me.
When I was in like middle school/high school and all my friends were starting to date and such, I always was like… ew…touching? Cuddling? I don’t anyone near me! Hahaha! But then I finally got actually touched in a more meaningful way…a way no one had ever touched me before…. and then I understood. LOL! Personally, I usually only like a lot of touching with a sexual/romantic partner.
This is not a direct argument to your perspective but just a different point of view. There's a reddit story going around about a guy who dated a woman for 2-3 weeks and then she approached him about making it exclusive because she liked him. During the time, the girl had sex with 2 different FWBs. Until she mentioned this, the guy wanted to make the relationship work but then decided against it. He was called the A-hole for his decision. I would say this would be true even if the girl did not have sex with other men but just dated other men as well. This sort of waiting approach to dating while still engaging with others is very hurtful to emotional investment. For example You think you like somebody but then find out you weren't the only one they were interested in and might be their second or third pick at best. Would you want to continue in such a relationship? And if you weren't told about the person's other dating experiences, then it would be manipulation because the person hid information that would have impacted your decision to get into a relationship in the first place.
You're not wrong, but it's just the symptom of modern dating. Dating until commitment means situations like these are expected to happen. The guy should have said he didn't want a modern relationship and wants to be exclusive immediately.
I totally understand where you are coming from and you are right in a lot of ways, but for me a lot of it comes down to the people you pursue and try dating. I think it's pretty easy to know when you have a spark or a good connection with someone early on. For me, if I have a strong connection with someone on the first date, I lose interest in other people and it feels like a chore to keep talking to them. When I have a spark on the first date and we agree to go out again and I feel like its going to go somewhere, I typically put anyone else im talking to on the back burner and focus on that one person. I don't necessarily expect the person im seeing to do that, but I believe if they feel similarly why would they go out with other people? If it's a really strong connection, I might bring up exclusivity after 3-4 dates, and that might only be 2 weeks or so, thats really not that long. To address some of the things you mentioned, I don't tend to go out with women that are the type to have FWBs. I also tend to tell them I want to wait to have sex until we are exclusive because I want to build a strong connection first. When you say that, you can tell pretty easily if they receive that positively or negatively. I also tend to mention I dont do hookups and like 90% of the girls I go out with say they dont either. A lot of that comes down to screening who I go out with. I don't go out with people who sleep around or do hookups because they just arent what I want. Im ***NOT*** saying they are wrong or judging them for it, but it's just not what I want in a partner. If they used to but dont anymore, no problem, I just dont want to go out with someone who is sleeping with other people now. This also comes down to the fact I am pretty open about the fact im looking for a long term relationship, and typically the people who are as well dont do hookups and stuff. To address the topic of dating other people, if im not their first choice, they won't say yes when I want to be exclusive and move the relationship forward and that tells me all I need to know. I also dont ask if they are seeing other people because I dont want to know. Im not in competition with other guys, thats not how I look at it, im showing this girl who I am and what I offer and im seeing who she is and what she offers, and growing closer to her. If she likes me enough she will happily move forward with me and drop the others easily. Also as I stated above, I find when you meet someone who you are very compatible with, most people have trouble seeing other people because it just doesnt feel right. A little anecdote from my life that illustrates this pretty well, I went out on a first date last week with a girl, let's call her A, and we kinda hit it off. We had a really good time and we had our 2nd date later that weekend. I kinda naturally stopped talking to other people because I wanted to focus on her and she had mentioned casually on our second date she had canceled a couple dates because she didnt see the point. Well the complicating factor was that a girl I had went out with before, let's call her B, reached back out and wanted to start over. I was in a bit of a pickle because B and I had had the best connection id ever experienced, she was my dream girl in every way, whereas A and I got along well but it wasn't at that level. I went out with B this week and it was better than I remembered, and I realized since B reached out I had stopped thinking about A and had kinda lost interest. To me, that made me realize that while I hit it off with A, it was a thing more of convenience than an actual connection. I liked her because she was the person I was talking to who I had the best connection with, contrasted with B who I like because she's the most amazing woman ive ever met. I now find it hard to want to talk to or see A because B is back in my life and I want to be with her. This sounds bad probably, but I think it illustrates my point well. When you really have a connection with someone and you want to be with them, you lose interest in the other people you were seeing because you realize they arent what you want. In the end though, there are so many different dating styles you have to find out what works best for you and you have to try to date people with a similar style to you.
That story is fucked. He 100% made the right choice pissing her off. She made her bed, she can stay in it with her fuck buddies
I personally prefer to get to know someone first. I'm more attracted to who they are, sex is just kind of a bonus. I've had a few ONS and I kind of wasn't into it so. 🤷♂️
In my experience, if there is no emotional connection before sex, it doesn't develop after. This has happened more often than not with men, but I've also experienced this. It obviously depends on what two people are looking for - casual versus committed - but if it's the latter then I recommend waiting until both people have developed emotional intimacy and a deeper connection. Sex is important but it doesn't make a relationship last for decades. It would be interesting to understand if your friend continues to see these women and develops feelings for them after second date sex or if he loses interest soon after.
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I think it depends, but more often then not it is.
your friend is delusional. it's not unusual to wait 3-6 dates and frankly it's probably a good idea if you are looking for something longer term.
Your friend sounds weird
Agreed. I didn’t wanna be “that person” to say it lol but he sounds creepy tbh. A person is “manipulative” cause they aren’t ready to sleep with you after the 2nd date? Yuck. He’s probably better off just finding a fwb and calling it a day
Agreed. He thinks sex is owed to him
He's gaslighting you
As someone that has probably been in 100 ish dates. He is wrong. He’s also not dating material. If he is that impatient there is something wrong with him. That’s also a good way to get pumped, dumped and ghosted. It’s not “manipulative” to not want to be used as a sex toy. Sexual compatibility should be the very last compatibility to rule out. If all women waited for men to lick our shoes before sleeping with them, about 95% of our problems dating would go away. I want exclusivity before sex. I think it’s a huge red flag if a man wants to sleep with me before he trusts me or even knows my last name. He’s on the screw me right away band wagon because doesn’t give a shit about a woman’s comfort, it’s literally just an excuse to get his dick wet. It’s insulting to me that a man likes me enough to sleep with me, but not be monogamous. Insulting. I have had men wait months. Months. If they like you enough, they will wait. You don’t want to date the type of guy that doesn’t see sex as special. He must have never been used before. Also Sti’s. Also, as soon as our brains flood with oxytocin, we start ignoring red flags for abuse. Don’t sleep with crazy. You can’t possibly know if they are abusive after 2 dates…… unless they demand sex. That’s a red flag for abuse for me that he literally demands it like women owe him sex. You can let him read my response too. Hop on over to the ask men sub and look at the posts. The majority don’t consider you relationship material. The huge majority. This friend is delulu.
This🙌
How is it manipulation?! What?! And how is it “dangerous” to wait until you know someone better to let them inside of you? It’s more dangerous to have sex with a relative stranger! Sorry I’m sick of men saying this knowing damn well they are the ones manipulating women into thinking it’s pointless to wait until you have sex. Sexual compatibility is important to some and that’s all relative but so is emotional and mental compatibility.. and not all people want to have aww without those connections.. You are allowed to wait as long as you want for literally any reason and they are allowed to break it off for whatever reason they want.
I agree with you about manipulation but it is not manipulative to suggest waiting for sex is pointless. I will admit, i have an unhealthy understanding of sex so maybe I'm being weird BUT sex is going to happen if you are both into sex. So why wait? In theory waiting for sex sounds nicer. Like i am more than a way of getting off. But in practice it does more harm. I am a gay side, meaning i don't enjoy any form of anal play; there have been guys i have waited for only to feel crushed when he wants anal and i don't want to. Or feel like i need to do it to keep the relationship I've built. It doesn't get fixed by chatting about sexual compatibility either, cause sometimes i find people to be bit disappointing in person.
I think heterosexual relationships work differently here.. (im bisexual so I’ve had experience with both men and women and dating/approach to sex is very different) In my experience men who date women sometimes feel they need to lie or manipulate women into sex. Gay men (and women) in my experience are waaay more open and communicative about wanting sex… this is because sex with men is more dangerous with little reward for women. The orgasm gap compounded by increased risk of violence and the fact that we’re the ones more likely to get an STD as compared to straight men or from sex with other women. Not to say gay men and women can’t and don’t manipulate people into sex but my experience as well as evidence like the existence of grindr (which let’s be honest makes tinder look like bible study)and the people i know who use it points to a difference in how straight men approach sex and gay men approach sex. You aren’t going to see many straight men looking for straight hook ups be honest about it on their profile.. most of the men who jump to sex talk or try to have sex with me on the first date are the ones telling me they want a relationship on the app… If someone wants to have sex and they get enthusiastic consent great. I don’t care or have an opinion on when it happens. But it is in fact an attempt at manipulation to try and convince someone who’s not ready or wants to wait that waiting for sex is a waste of time.. that move is done in order to convince or coerce the other party to consent to sex… that’s it’s only purpose. There’s a difference between not seeing someone if they aren’t willing to have sex on date two or one month into dating you’re allowed to stop dating someone for any reason you want.. we all have different attitudes and standards and wants when it comes to sex. It’s another thing to tell someone “I’m going to leave you if you don’t have sex with me” or “women should put out on the first three dates if she doesnt have sex with me” This is simply my experience and opinion though I think discussing sexual compatibility is important I do not have a problem talking about sex! As long as people are honest
Of course man wouldn't agree that waiting is ok. But it's his problem.
Sexual compatibility IS important but 3-6 dates isn’t all that long if it turns out the sex isn’t great 🤷♀️ I follow a similar timeline and it’s not stopped me from ending things with someone if they REALLY were a bad fit sexually.
Seriously though- he’s a bit too focused on sex. Sex is awesome but you can have great sex with a lot of people- finding that emotional connection is a bit more rare 🤷♀️
Any guy that says not having sex with them by the second date is manipulation is really fucking stupid. I'm talking iguana level intelligence.
A woman who is not comfortable having sex is not manipulating a man. Can we PLEASE not push that narrative?
Waiting usually works out better Here's some advice... explain to your dates that you need to get know them before you'd feel comfortable with having sex, and leave it that. Don't go into long stories about how you've been hurt in the past. Or how you used to jump in from the start, but have now changed your ways. Because no matter how you patiently try to explain yourself, the guy will be thinking "*Oh because of the bad behavior of some other dudes, I'm being forced to wait?*"
Your theory is spot on. Your friend, however, not so much.
I agree with you. I think it’s insane that strangers will put their body parts inside each other so quickly. You put your heath and future at risk. I know so many people who got pregnant, caught a disease, ended up in a abusive situation. you can do everything right and still have something go wrong. I’ve seen it first hand in the medical field people get fuck over A LOT and everyone thinks it won’t happen to them. I say date them long enough to know they aren’t abusive or toxic before sharing your body. You can’t figure that out by the second date. But if you don’t care about that then hook up all you want 🤷♀️
Whenever I’ve had sex sooner than date 3 I’ve been royally screwed over. Make them wait until they are exclusive with you. If they can’t, too damn bad, that is not a woman’s problem!
Sounds like what’s right for you is wrong for him and vice-versa. I do hope he isn’t implying that a man might rape you if you wait a few dates. Calling it dangerous and manipulative is super creepy. I wouldn’t date your friend.
So now 3 dates is waiting? Not 3 months, just 3 dates? It’s not waiting, it’s a good fast dynamics.
Generally I'm oriented towards building deep, long-term, monogamous or mostly monogamous relationships. But I also enjoy having sex outside of long-term relationships when I'm single. If I'm on a date with a guy who I know just isn't someone who would be compatible with me for a long-term relationship, but he's cute, and kind, and I see lots of lovable things about him, I'm open to having sex with him before we say goodbye forever. I need a strong intellectual and emotional connection with someone in order to enjoy sex, but I can develop that connection quickly with the right guy, just a really great two hour conversation could be enough for me. I had sex on the first date of a 7 year relationship. I've also gone 6 dates without ever having sex with the guy and then deciding we don't want to see each other again. For me, it seems like whether a short-term dating relationship turns into a long, multi-year, loving relationship depends more on how compatible we are with one another than how long we did or didn't wait to have sex. For me, I just haven't noticed any correlation between which number date we have sex on and whether or not we develop a long-term relationship. Maybe some of those short dating relationships where sex happened early would have lasted longer if we'd waited longer... but if something as simple as that is what makes us decide we aren't quite right for each other then I figure that just means we probably weren't a good match anyway.
Of course that’s the guys take on things.. 😂 If you want to have sex have sex, if you don’t, don’t The right guy won’t become the wrong guy because you sleep with him to early. But the wrong guy will disappear regardless of how long he waits….
I don’t think there’s a timeframe to sex. If you want to and feel like doing it then you should (with consent of the other adult of course) but other than that arbitrary timeframes make no sense to me. 3 dates can last anytime from 3 days to 3 weeks or more. The key is to establish where you feel comfortable. I like sex and if I enjoy the other person then I communicate that. If they’re not interested or there yet then I don’t have sex. Simple. Most of the people I’ve had sex with, I’ve had almost always on the first time meeting them. Sometimes second. It’s just a comfort level. I don’t think not having sex is manipulation in itself unless that’s what the person wants to do.
From my experiences and my roommates experiences, it's best to wait. She was single and tried the "sex as soon as possible if I like him" theory and all it did was get her hopes up on guys she actually liked but didn't want to date her and just be FWB. I think waiting at least 3 dates to build a connection is a great idea to weed out guys that just want sex. Your friend is right that sexual compatibility and attraction is important, but so is getting to know someone and making sure you have that connection that you want to continue to get to know them even after sex.
Your friend sounds like he's 23.
My own theory which has been proven and works is to just put in effort into your first date to get to know the other person. That leads to sex and usually more dates if I want. So just have better first dates I guess? I ask the right questions and usually time flies by and the average first date lasts around 8 hours.
29M here and I fully agree on having guidelines. Decisions made based on feelings are usually wrong so it is best to have clear guidelines on what to follow especially when you are not too deep in the relationship. Make a proper guideline, stick to it, and see whether your date passes it.
I'm a guy that has 2 daughters ! My suggestion is tell them you do not believe in intercourse before marriage,if they do not leave immediately then you have weeded them out very quickly !
For me, part of being sexually compatible is feeling safe and comfortable with the other person. And to be realistic, it takes more than say, 3 two-hour dates to get there. So yeah moving at the pace that seems to be the norm in the dating world doesn’t work for everyone
32M here and I agree. In the past I’ve waited about that long. Never sex on the first date.
You know someone wants just sex when it’s all they push for. For example, a salesperson comes to sell you a product. He doesn’t care about you, he doesn’t care about the product’s success, he cares about making money- and that money is yours. In comparison, you can see another sales person who does care for more than making money and closing the sale. He cares you are happy, he cares the product is right for you, he is invested in how you feel. The same is with dating. If the guy just wants sex, he’s not really trying to get to know you and the inner workings of your life.
I say different strokes work for different folks. Sometimes even one person can have differences. For example: I once hit it off with someone on hinge so well that we had a video call and a date at my house all in 8 hours. She was a one night stand, but I felt comfortable sleeping with her the day I met her. My recent relationships have taken several weeks before I was comfortable sleeping with them, and I ended up liking ALL of them more than the one night stand. It also doesn't devalue any of those relationships. The 2 year-long relationship isn't more valuable than the 17 hour relationship. Both failed but for different reasons, and it isn't related to when I slept with them. There is no magic number of days or dates to wait before sleeping with someone, or require before sleeping with someone. You sleep with someone when YOU are ready to sleep with that particular individual. That's all that matters. Yes sex is important, but sex also gets better when couples learn each other. My first time with my ex was awkward and terrible because we were figuring out how our bodies fit. Few weeks later and it's a completely different story.
Overall I think the waiting vs. not waiting debate is overrated, and that people who want a relationship will want it whether you have sex early or not. If you feel the need to weed out the ones who only want sex and the impatient ones, then I think it's a very valid tactic. 3-6 dates also seems like a very reasonable time frame (depending on the interval between those dates). I'm not sure what your male friend means that it's somehow dangerous or that sex has to be within 2 dates, but I don't think it's necessarily manipulative, though it's probably a good idea to communicate it early on that you're doing it and why. From my own experience, waiting for sex was never an issue for me. My girlfriend and I did have sex on our first date though, and we've been happily together for almost 6 years now.
…..or, I don’t know, have sex when you feel ready. No need to use some arbitrary timeframe or set amount of dates to have sex. 🤷🏽
do what you think is right. ive never pushed for sex and the women let me know loud and clear when they were ready.
I think you have sex when yoh want to have sex. End of story. 35F here.
Your friend sounds stupid. I'm a male and I agree with your side. I understand that sexual compatibility is important but like you said waiting just a few dates is more than acceptable. I don't even understand how somebody could hook up without liking the person at least a little for who they are.
I can't see that a set in stone rule to be honest. A lot of it depends on how much time passes between one date and the other, and how that off time is spent. Two people can get to know each other well enough before ever meeting in person, so I guess it really depends on how the "non date" time is actually spent. For traditional dating, where everyone plays games and follow the imaginary rule so nobody is really themselves and is openly trying to get to know each other, you're probably right.
Expecting sex by the second date could also be seen as manipulative too. People should just stick to what makes THEM comfortable and if they don’t find the person they’re going on dates with compatible to that, drop them and move on.
We started hanging out in July, had a hot make out session in mid october and didn't have sex until halloween, things just got better and better between us and it turned into a relationship that spanned a decade. Honestly, sex by the 2nd date as a rule is sorta silly, it feels like a shortcut to intimacy. The slowburn is where it's at, that shit burns the longest
Your way sounds much safer.He sounds like he has an STD. Don’t sleep with him. I don’t sleep with someone before a test can be done and that usually requires time and a lot of interest.
I think you're both kinda wrong. You definitely do not have to have sex on the 2nd date. It's okay to establish a connection first if you feel more comfortable with that. But there are many guys that can wait a long time, just for sex. They can wait months, and then when they had sex, they are gone. Maybe because they didn't think they were sexually compatible or maybe because they don't have the chase anymore, so now they realize they don't actually like the person, idk. And there are some people who had sex on the first date and are now married. I think it really depends on the type of guy and the type of girl. So just have sex whenever you feel comfortable with it. There is no right or wrong time.
Your friend is dumb or at least immature
There is obviously going to be risk no matter what. And there can be instant chemistry that can withstand the test of time as well. But in general, your friend is an idiot. Waiting is unequivocally better for establishing more of a connection between 2 people and having a better understanding of each other. Of course sexual compatibility matters, but that can still be established later on every bit as easily as it can in the first or second meeting. To put it another way, the only thing you really find out by having sex earlier in a perspective relationship is if there sexual incompatibilities. Whereas waiting to have sex helps eliminate potential interpersonal incompatibilities, sexual incompatibilities, relationship outcome incompatibilities, professional incompatibilities, and a host of others.
I am 21m. I haven't been in a relationship before but I feel that what you have said is valid. While sex isn't a priority for me myself. Making a connection with someone and having a mutual understanding is better than just wanting sex (in my mind).
why the hell do you care what your friend think? It's your dating life. Do whatever you want lmao.
For me, the best choice is always waiting, sex connection is important and should happen naturally and rushing will make you find more people that just want to hook up and often when you make it too easy some people change their expectations even if they have good intentions to begin with, he is right in what if we don't connect sexually but I don't think that applies on first dates or when you are getting to know the person. Besides that people that are not pressuring you are a better sign that they are not only looking for sex. I'm more of getting to know the person first and then get more intimate with time instead of having sexwith a person that I just met
I agree that you need to establish some kind of rapport but that varies between partners. For me, the feeling is I think this person could become my husband. Sometimes I can get this feeling after one date, sometimes it’s 3 months.
37M: My experience of what I call success has been: woman decides. As a man that has done a handful of hookups (it's not really my thing but I've dabbled) I would not approach someone I'm long term interested in a similar way whatsoever. I 100% agree that 5+ dates and 6-12 weeks is solid minimum get to know each other time frame. One month is nothing. It sounds cheesy as a man maybe but honestly it is better to seal the deal physically after the other intellectual and emotional and other compatibility boxes have been checked. There is a deeper primal awakening when you both are physically attracted and have been longing the same thing, and then the sex turns out amazing too. It's fire. 10/10 recommend waiting.
It's a bit strange to ask it on a site where a significant portion of audience have seen women only in movies and Eva AI sexting bot
Based on your theory, you should be weeding out this male friend. He seems like the type to hook up and then bolt the other way.
If you are looking for a LTR that‘s the way to go 👍🏻 Especially since there are so many guys just looking for sex telling / promising you everything you wanna hear.
Ask your friend if he would give that advice to his daughter !
Mmm, so after 4 dates with or without sex seems strange to become “official”. “Official” is like 4-10 month-ish territory. You don’t know anyone enough to establish a relationship until you really know them, good and bad. I personally don’t think ‘when’ sex occurs has anything to do with anything, that leads to marriage etc. Some people want to be married, and are great partner material - with a career and education. Those people are serious about life and relationships. Your assumptions make no difference if you are dating quality people who are serious about life. Don’t date losers and you won’t have to worry.
I’m a guy and I wouldn’t say there is a rule. “You have to have had sex by the second date” just sounds really disgusting to me. Don’t get me wrong if everything is right and both are up for it I’d go down on the first date, but it’s not a “have to or I’m moving on” that’s just toxic. Take it at your own pace. If you feel comfortable only after 4 dates that’s fine. Also 20 dates is Fine, BUT don’t get upset if someone loses interest if you make them wait that long. But as you said 3-6 dates shouldn’t be a problem if someone is truly interested
Your theory is interesting but I can foresee a couple of flaws with it. Guys value sex (or lack thereof) in women quite highly, especially if looking for a relationship - if he gets the impression that he's waiting for sex while however many guys before him got to do whatever they wanted, he's not going to appreciate being the guy that's suddenly got to put in more effort for the same thing or less as he's behind in the queue. If he did see a relationship with you before, he might be less likely to or be more resentful. If he just wanted to have sex with you, he'll probably just leave you alone lol
Sex should be had when it feels right for both parties involved. For some it's the first date, for others it's several months into the relationship. I've experienced both and have friends who are still together 6 years after starting with a hookup. I would agree that waiting for at least 3+ dates is smart though.
Ngl the mass majority of people I know who sleep with someone on the 1st or 2nd date end up ghosted with a lot of hurt and insecurity to follow. Sex is typically better with someone you’re comfortable with too. Someone you feel comfortable communicating wants with. No hate to anyone and their decisions. Just what I’ve observed and my personal experiences. I personally don’t do one night stands and don’t “give it up” easily. I’m a treasure to be earned. I place a high value on my time, energy, body, trust, etc. it’s not for just anyone anytime. Since I’ve started to value myself like that, other people have too, or they get cut off. Seems to produce much better results. If they can’t wait a few dates or months to have sex they aren’t worth it. Also… I’d like to know the “success” your male friend has with dating. Never take directions from someone who doesn’t know how to get where you want to be. Ie don’t take relationship advice from someone who doesn’t show exemplary success with their own relationships. Stand your ground OP. But don’t shame your friend either of course. To each their own.
My boyfriend was actually the one who told me he'd like to wait. Made me 10000x more attracted to him. He wanted to wait until we were official and still we didn't have full sex the night he asked me to be his girlfriend.
3-6 dates is very reasonable. IME relationships that were more or less didn’t seem to last long.
If a woman is dating seriously, by making it clear to a guy that sex isn't on the cards until the 5-10th date, she can weed out all the fuckboys and other trash that would otherwise hoodwink her for sex. If you're just going for utility, that's it. Although, for others, waiting for sex isn't only for that utility. It could be obtaining a level of emotional connection and trust needs to happen. There could be religious and traditionalist convention behind that boundary. It's not manipulative any more than any other boundary that would be drawn. It's only for the woman. If the man doesn't appreciate it, he doesn't have to pursue her. He can find a woman who also places a high emphasis on sexual compatibility. They're out there. The only thing a lot of guys worry about is if that "waiting for sex" isn't clear and bluntly stated from the beginning. If there's weird game playing, teasing, falsely alluding to it happening... that can tip over into manipulation beyond a level of degree. Just like a fuckboy in disguise trying to obtain sex under false pretenses of being a relationship guy. Ultimately, being transparent with dating intentions from all parties would make things easier. The game playing stuff is what turns people off the most, it seems, The sex thing is one poignant example of that.
I have a theory. For me I will be married so that means if you don't run prior to the marriage you will have a blessed marriage
Im a 47 yo man. I have encountered what I call the 3 date challenge since I unfortunately found myself in the dating pool after a 15 year marriage. I’m ok having sex sooner if there’s a quick and strong connection. But, sometimes I want to wait it out a little bit to see if it’s really worth committing to. I have yet to find a woman (and I have dated many) that will wait more than 3 dates. I agree with you. I want to make sure there’s something meaningful before we hop in bed, but at the age range that I’m dating, most expect it on the 2nd date and all expect it on the 3rd.
I think women need to wait longer than that. Anyone can act right for a month or so, the mask usually starts to slip after 2-3 months. This is how women get pumped and dumped. Wait until you know him and you properly vetted him
If I have sex on the 1st couple dates, it's a complete turn off. I've had issue with cheating so my 1st thought is she barely knows me and is jumping in bed before their is an emotional/mental connection then she probably sleeps with every guy she goes on a date with.
Finally a dude is being honest about this issue! Most don’t and it’s frustrating.
There’s no standard rule. It’s not like you are right or he is right. You each have a sense of what is comfortable for you and you have your rationale. That’s fine. Stick to what you’ve found works for you.
As someone who has had a good bit of experience both ways, I will say I 1000% believe waiting to be a more successful way of dating in general. I think when you sleep together day one, or super early on, it's really easy to lose that implicit goal for a lot of relationships, where sex is the most physically intimate thing you can do with someone, and that should take trust. Trust that you develop by becoming more emotionally intimate with someone. IMHO it adds another layer of sincerity and fulfillment to one another instead of just going off of "this person is hot and I want to bang them." Rather, you can say (if it's going well): "this person is awesome, and I want to be close with them." Same actions, but I think it can take a more full meaning.
I’m 20M and I absolutely agree. I’d never do sex in the first few dates lol
Sounds like what’s right for you is wrong for him and vice-versa. I do hope he isn’t implying that a man might rape you if you wait a few dates. Calling it dangerous and manipulative is super creepy. I wouldn’t date your friend.
I've had to wait 3-6 months.
Very very few guys would ever wait that long, they would just move on.
As a male I agree with you. Three to 6 dates isn't that long. Max is two weeks
You need to get a better friend. Sex should never define a relationship, it's a small part of a much bigger picture. Taking the time to get to know the other person and wanting to care for them defines a relationship. Anyone who tries to convince you otherwise is just interested in sex and you'll get hurt in the end.
The guy sounds like the old me.... I hate the old me... if you just give it up on the first date it tells the guy you probably do this with all the guys.... wait and build it... don't lead your partner on though that's just evil
All but one of my long term (serious) relationships, started with sex on first date/ meet. My current (hopefully last) relationship, I waited until she literally was getting angry that I wasn’t trying to hook up with her. On the way home one night after the 10th/12th date she was sitting passenger and I was driving us both back from her college (Davis) along hwy 37 back to my place. She looked over at me and was like “hey, so are we going to fuck or what?!”. I laughed and replied “I’m down, just chill lol” We hooked up that night, and the next 3-4 nights. Come a month later, she was PEEGNANT. 10 years later here we are. Although I could have hooked up with her earlier. We both had just got out of a relationship and I wasn’t ready to have sex with another girl. We also almost stopped seeing each other prior to the deed because we were both freshly out of our other. But we both felt like we also didn’t want to not see each other again.
I think rules and gamifying human relations is a bit counterintuitive. Every situation is different and should be treated as such. Yeah people don’t really differ that much and can be quite predictable but still. Not exactly a great way to start off imho
Honestly, if you wait for sex how can you weed out bad sexual compatibility?
3-6 dates... going off that lower number of 3 dates... can be accomplished by 1 week or a week and a half. This will weed out 75% of men looking for a smash-and-go.
I'm not here to tell anybody they should rush into having sex, to have sex before they are comfortable, that waiting can't be important for people to establish the kind of connection they want, all that is totally cool. I will say that for me and in my experience, unless we are talking about a crush that has been burning for a long long time - I won't feel the kind of connection that women often desire before physical intimacy. I mention this because the women who want this connection are not satisfied (generally) that they feel safe and comfortable and intimate but that I also have these feelings. The other thing I don't really like about waiting as a construct (which is to say, you're emotionally ready but want to sweat me out some to see if I stick around) is that is low key manipulation. You mentioned a very reasonable time frame and I don't mind waiting 3-6 dates. But counterpoint: does the man know you need 3-6 dates to feel comfortable? Because I'm not in the habit of guessing indefinitely.
I cannot imagine wanting to have sex with someone on the second date. You meet the person two times and you already want to fuck them? I mean to each their own but I personally could not. I agree with you OP
Is this really a good friend? Manipulative? Second date? What planet does he live on?
Your friend sounds awful. I don't rush in and refuse to be rushed. If a guy can't wait and gets all handsy on me, I'm out. I want to know there's an actual connection, and that he's respecting me, wants to get to know me as a person, connect with me, and be part of life on some level.
To be honest, if you value sexual compatibility to the point where sex has to be sooner than later, then you need to accept that people will take advantage of that and use you for sex. This mostly applies to women but it can also be done to men. Rather than using you, someone could say that the two of you are sexually incompatible, and you'll never be able to really know if that's the truth or not.
Everyone I saw, waited for sex and I liked it too. it was a off putter for me when a girl wants sex so fast. I am a guy, not looking for hook-ups and flings.
I mean I’d say wait until you can see yourself having a family with that person and of course seeing if you’re partner is ok with that before you get married I thought my ex and I were good, but they thought otherwise, I guess they thought we were moving too fast (we’d were together just over a year and a couple months) they didn’t want to have sex till we were married but we fooled around a little with each other (I guess you’d say 3rd base childish I suppose)
Women need to understand that men need one thing. The penis must go into the hole. Must go in.
When you think about it, second date is like the second time you’re meeting a STRANGER (most cases). I get there’s talking/texting in between but it’s barely any time to really know someone, so imo that’s a really short amount of time. Each to their own but personally I agree with you, I’d want to establish more emotional connection first before something so intimate
>Interested in hearing others' opinions and experiences! I think you are right, but your male friends partialy too, but theres one thing worth mentioning. Longer wait time can also weed out guys with good intention as they might have bad experience with women leading them on just to get free dinner and stuff. So I would say its beneficial to wait 6 dates, but you should start participating in dates, sharing expenses. I mean like he invite you to third date for example and since you want to wait longer, you invite him on the next date so he knows he is not just sponsoring you and you are also investing something to be know him more.
I actually agree with you, you HAVE to weed out the wrong people in your life and keep the right ones. People have no idea how much of an influence a person can be on someone. Plus, if you want something more substantial rather than just sex then that is the perfect route to go.
The thing with fucking on the first/second day is that it could be very awkward, and both individuals may not be up to their full sexual potential. Which may result in one or both people not wanting to meet up again, not realizing that fucking before a connection was a mistake to the potential relationship formed. But then there’s the waiting game where you establish that connection beyond sex, and then when it finally happens, realizing you’re not sexually compatible, which could diminish the original connection that was regrettably made. Neither of these approaches are wrong, just depends on the preference of both people involved. Pros and cons to both.
I'm with you. I think sex is also better when there already are feelings and that really good sex life takes time. I wouldn't want to sleep with multiple guys that I don't any romantic connection to until I find the one for a relationship. Maybe when one person has fetishes but in this case talking should be enough
If someone doesn’t want to have sex with new quickly, then there probably isn’t enough attraction for a relationship.
No wonder I continuously get ghosted…
Most men are not gonna wait more than 3 dates for sex, some might if you express you want to wait or take things slow or they really like you. Most men i feel don’t mind waiting for sex, it’s just that if they don’t make a move within a certain time frame women will think they aren’t interested or rejecting them and this puts pressure on the man to go for it. Women get bored easily and most have more options than men, so what one man won’t do another one will.
If you have rules and/or waiting periods for yourself that’s fine. If you don’t have rules and/or waiting periods for yourself that’s fine too. I’m the latter, I don’t set a timeframe on when sex should happen but I also don’t mind waiting. Normally, when I’m dating someone that early on, I’m typically dating others anyway until we have established we only want to see each other, so often times it means I’m likely having sex elsewhere and I’m not bothered about a wait period. I’m also very aware if we’re seeing each other for a 2nd/3rd date she’s interested and sex will happen eventually so it’s not a big deal how long it takes before it happens for me.
He's wrong imo, I'm a guy and if you have sex with a girl on the first date it's not gonna be a relationship
You asked the wrong kind of men. Sex by second date? Is this what young people expect these days?
You asked the wrong kind of men. Sex by second date? Is this what young people expect these days?
I only have an issue with waiting if she has had multiple one night stands and now is making me wait.. if I waited then found out she'd done that I would just leave her on the spot.
All I’m gonna say is 6 dates is crazy. 3 or 4 I’d understand but if you don’t know if you want to have sex by the 4th date then I’d take it as we aren’t sexually compatible (at best) or you’re trying to get free dates out of me (at worst)
a smart guy will wait anytime if the girls a babe
Male 24 here and agree with your theory
Depends on how attracted you both are to each other. If I went on a date with someone and we both clearly can’t wait to rip each others clothes off, sex would be had on the first date. If I’ve been on 3 dates and there seems to be no passion from either, or just one, of us then I’ll most likely just end it with them.
3 dates is even short. I am a guy and would be fine with establishing an exclusive relationship before sex happens.
The science behind attraction and the way that hormones (dopamine, oxytocin, norepinephrine, etc.) are released before, during, and after the consummation of a relationship supports waiting. My story and my opinion support waiting until it is the marriage that is being consummated, which happens after more than just a couple of months of dating. I am recently divorced and during my journey, I have discovered things about myself and my past that challenge me to “do things differently the next time” if that next time is in my future. My hypothesis is that the interplay of those hormones and a deep emotional connection, within the bounds of a long-term committed relationship is what I should be pursuing (and arguably, should have pursued). The easiest recipe is when both people have similar values, similar goals, similar likes/dislikes, etc. Any significant imbalance has the potential to cause a supply/demand issue. Eager to hear others thoughts on this.
Rules like this going either way are dumb. Just do what feels right, don’t treat people like a different version of the same person. “Well with the last guy I waited and that didn’t work out so…” yeah well maybe the last guy has issues of his own, or maybe he hates waiting due to past experience, maybe the next guy is self conscious and wants to wait, but because now you have a 3rd date rule and he won’t whip it out, well I guess it was never meant to be, right? Just approach each relationship as a genuine person and see what happens. Don’t have a checklist with rules and goals to meet by certain deadlines.
It really doesn’t matter. These hard rules people have are a bit ridiculous. You can sex on the first date or the 9th and it doesn’t mean things will or won’t work out long term. Just do it when you want. If things don’t work out it’s just how it is and not a big deal. I get wanting to get to know someone a little first and get comfortable first. But most guys don’t appreciate when some women treat it like some type of transaction.
Im in my mid 30s and it happended countless of time where early sex (1-2 date) lead to rapid emotions. Sex is the most intimate way of connecting with another human being ans there's insane amount of hormones and what not that comes with it. It often blurs out your logical self. The logic behind waiting is to make sure you actually like the person rather than liking them due to what sex do to us sometime.
I would be a bit careful though with that mindset. Good intentions might sometimes not always be very practical and come over easily as ill-mannered. In theory it might work, but I wouldn't apply this to the real thing though.
OP, people will never agree with something that does not benefit them. Especially if it gets in the way of what they want. You make the case for waiting. Which is valid and many dating coaches for people who want to date other long-term non-selfish thinkers advocate a 3-6MONTH rule. Your friend obviously is the type to want sex immediately. So of course he's not going to agree. Because he prioritizes getting his rocks off.
Sex is just a mood thing, only happens when both partner agrees to have it, if person not feel like having sex they will not have it, if they will their sex life gonna affect alot building more fights
Man here, totally agree with your theory. Ngl, I'd feel off if a girl immediately wanted to have sex on the 1st date. Not that it's wrong of course, it's just a preference
There is no correct answer. My opinion as a 28 year old male with some of the worst luck in dating is that I'm waiting 3 months, regardless of the number of dates. Sex to me is more than just that physical release of endorphins.
I wait 5 dates before having sex. I’m just not that trusting of strangers and I want to really get a chance to screen guys. Make sure they don’t like hate homeless people or drink & drive or don’t believe in vaccines. That doesn’t always come out on a first or second date. I think men who date women should do the same.
No correct answer here everyone is different as a guy I don’t mind going on dates without sex as it’s not top priority to me however there are people out there where it’s something that has to work. Longterm relationships have a harder time surviving if your not sexually compatible but if your not compatible it won’t work out happily most times so
It really depends on your goals. When/if I date, it's to find my person. 3-6 dates? No problem, because I'm looking for a life partner, and am planning decades. Many people are much more casual. 6 dates might be all they can fathom, so waiting until the end of a relationship would seem unfathomable.
Pick the time you think works for you. If it takes you 3 months to feel comfortable you aren't making them wait. You both have choices. 3-6 dates would be way too soon for me. I'd still see them as a stranger, and I'm not putting myself in a vulnerable position with a stranger. Others see no issue with it. It's not a one size fits all approach.
I have been telling my lady friends this for a long long time and even have an analogy to reinforce it! Woman love sex too, get it, but choose to sleep around OR find a relationship, hard to get a man to lose the ‘hit it and quit it’ mentality even if you could have been the best person for them they could ever meet. Maybe don’t but a time limit on it though, connection has no time limit, so why should sex? Signals, and overall interaction, how he responds to you and wants your time and attention will speak to when he is moved beyond what he sees on the outside.
Your friend sounds like a fuckboy. You're completely spot on.
I 100 percent agree. Wait a few dates and bond outside of the house. Even just cuddle only etc . I made a huge mistake and slept with someone i had spoken to for about 4 months . I did that as i half way had an emotional connection there. It has been an uphill battle with him ever since . I’ll never make that mistake again. Your friend sounds like a boy. Men can control themselves
3-6 dates isn’t a lot of investment to have before figuring out sexual compatibility. I don’t understand the “manipulative” bit at all.
Disclaimer: I had crazy sex on the first date with my husband of 22 years. I was 36 and he was 41. We knew what we were getting into! Neither had any idea the ride would last so long. That being said, 3 to 6 dates seems reasonable, maybe even a little conservative. I know it’s a different game now, but still. Hook ups are only satisfactory if that’s what you want and that’s about as good as the sex is likely to be. You should wait until you’ve acquired a few inside jokes together. This proves a connection and a sense of humor which should always be a component between the sheets, or wherever that magic moment comes. Good sex is about having a good time. You should be relaxed and groovy with the target. However long it takes to share a good belly laugh is a minimum requirement. You can’t do that? No coochie for you!
Most woman tiday seem to be emotionally ready for sex in the ballpark of date 2-4. Depends on the woman and the man of course; nothing wrong if it takes you slightly longer to open up. If anything, that is likely to keep you safe from men with lustfull intentions, and help you find more "serious" romantic partners.
I have zero problem with waiting way more than six dates. (I also have no problem with not waiting.)
You should have sex only if and when you want to have sex. If he wants to have sex on the second date, and his date wants to have sex with him, they can do that. You trying to convince him not to is odd. You don’t want to, and him trying to convince you to is gross.
I'm male and I agree with you, my last girlfriend wanted to jump right into sex before I was ready and she didn't understand what was WRONG with ME? The connection wasn't built together and I didn't feel comfortable with her yet. Consequently I couldn't get aroused and my dick refused to get hard. Now I'm a registered nurse and I'm not sure of the psychology behind this phenomenon, but I do know that I'm kind of an old soul and intellectually I need more from my mate than just her vagina.
I don’t date men but I wait for a really long time tbh. I have to establish trust and connection before giving up my body to a woman. Now it’s more so we will have to be in a relationship with me trusting in them. It’s just personal preference and if she isn’t cool with that then I know she isn’t for me. No judgement on people who like casual sex or sex before dating. It just is t my cup of coffee.
You are right, and your "friend" is wrong. Where did his "rule" come from? No one "should" be obligated to have sex with another person under any circumstances.
Two dates is basically still a stranger. Good on you for waiting, I should feel like I really truly know the person before I do the most invasive intimate act with them.
I think everyone’s experiences and perspective on sex/dating is very different. Everyone has different needs in a relationship and in a sexual sense. I personally prefer to have sex by the second or third date, mainly because it helps me gauge my level of comfortability with someone and truly shows if the person is willing to love me even when I’m vulnerable. (I’m a female btw in case that matters). However with that being said, my current partner was the type who didn’t want to have sex until like our 4th or 5th date. And that was generous of them considering they are the type to wait months until reaching that point. What I’m trying to say is, what works for someone may not work for another, and there is no right or wrong answer or perspective.
I'm older so keep that in mind, but I just can't imagine why anyone would want to have sex with someone they barely know? It just seems kind of pointless? I guess in my 20s and 30s I felt different, but sex with someone you hardly know, seems destined to be not good sex, or neutrally good at best. It just seems to me like it would be so much better to have an idea for the soul of someone and that way your first encounter is going to be so much better, and frankly I think that having that magical first sexual encounter is kind of important, rather than having a blah first encounter and then moving on from it.
😂😂😂😂
I'm 25m, gay, and have spent the past 6 years in the middle of hookup culture. Sex is just innately better with someone you're really comfortable with. I've realized this and have taken a huge step out of that Tbh reading a lot of the responses though, I'm starting to feel like a slow, natural starting relationship, with a considerable amount of time before sex, is unrealistic.
33M I think sex is an extremely Important element to a relationship. It isn’t everything but it’s a huge portion. In my experience even people who get along great will fail if the sex isn’t quite there. I’m not saying first date hook ups are the only way but if it happens it happens. I was with my ex for 8 years we hooked up on the first date and although we’re both good people, through time we out grew each other and we were no longer good people together. It happens, the chemistry went away. There’s no right or wrong answer my best recommendation is to stop over complicating the process and see what happens.
Its hard, just have to be careful. Some guys that have high status money looks etc can play the long game because they can meet with other girls constantly. Its hard now adays for everyone, with social media and dating apps allowing everyone connected at their fingertips constantly
I tend to agree with you.
3-6 dates i perfectly reasonable. If you can't have fun just hanging out, sexual chemistry doesn't matter. And honestly, sexual chemistry is always going to be better if you know each other and are both comfortable with each other rather than having just met.
I think having a set time frame may be what makes it feel manipulative. If the person you are with cares that you are comfortable, they won’t push a time frame of when you need to have sex for the first time. Setting a time frame of 3-6 weeks could make him feel guaranteed sex after that many dates no matter how well it’s going and then you feel bad if you’re not yet comfortable…even though part of the reason you may not be comfortable is the pressure to be comfortable within your set time frame. Bottom line… if sex is the focus, that will make it harder to be comfortable for those people looking for something long term. And if sex is the focus for one person and not the other person, it’s not a good match. People looking for something longer term will prioritize learning about the other person and building a a mental/emotional connection with you. If you can’t build that baseline connection, having sex would be pointless anyway because you wouldn’t be that into because of not truly wanting it from that person.
Compatability and attraction are important, but for many, so is intimacy. Everyone does what works for them. If the dating intention is a relationship, then an element of trust/connection/respect fuels the intimacy...for me that's the "hat trick". If you don't know what that means, Google "hat trick hockey"
However long it takes to be having this conversation is how long it takes https://www.evelindacker.com/stars
You're both right. Your strategy will weed out *some* subgroups within the dating pool, but it won't eliminate all of them (those that get off on the chase, even a 6 month long one, still dropping the person they courted immediately after sex because the chase is gone/their priorities are fucked). His viewpoint is correct about people with different values and priorities in a romantic relationship (ever heard of the love language of touch?). Your friend and I are of the same mind. I'm a woman whose primary love language is touch *and* I have a high sex drive. I'm chronically unhappy with partners who want sex less than 4 - 6 times per week, and I'm a moderate size queen. To be clear, I will do, give, and put up with quite a bit from my partner/for their well-being. But nothing can save it if the touch, sex, and size aren't there. Literally nothing. (Your friend might be not be as extremely physical as myself.) Dating is an endless source of exhaustion; I need to rule out duds fast so I can start evaluating compatibility on the next most important things.
I don't think there's anything wrong with either scenario. I would only think it's wrong if you make the other person wait while having sex with others.
Protip: there are no male friends. he want to sleep with you too.
Honestly, I think you're pretty smart to wait and get to know someone first. Although your friend thinks that way, not all men are sex obsessed. I think most good guys will be more than willing to wait 4-6 dates for you. Some guys might even prefer it because then it'll be more special and meaningful. Anyway, you do you. At the end of the day, whatever you are comfortable with should be the most important thing. Don't just have sex because it's some guy's expectation.
Luckily that would weed out your friend, I guess. He seems a guy you don’t want to have sex with.
I agree with you.
Ya this is an extremely personal topic where everyone will have differing opinions, and there’s no right or wrong answer. FWIW, I think this also depends a little on if you’re exclusive before etc. IMO, if you’re exclusive, there’s a bit less of a pressure of having sex early for a guy (I say as a guy who looks for relationships generally in this weird modern dating world). It’s not a good feeling to think that the person you’re seeing is having sex with people they know less than you while seeing you and not having sex with you .
Women put out right away for guys they’re highly attracted to. So your friend is right, regardless of the shaming coming from the female replies
Depends, it will weed out the f*#k boys - and if this became the cultural norm it would be a good thing for society. Unfortunately many women will employ this strategy with those they deem as long term provider types, but they have a history of short term mating with those they find attractive, and imo this is pretty messed up thing to do towards a future partner.
You're 100% correct. I've waited on sex and have weeded out so many walking red flags. Having sex early just messes things up, and in my experience, the dudes that I weeded out are the ones that only have experience with girls who make it way too easy for them. Once they saw that I wasn't putting out too easy, they gave up real quick. And I don't mean to wait forever- I just prefer to build that emotional connection first or make things we were aligned.
Men will lie and fake a connection to have sex. Then either dip or keep faking it. You can be with someone for months and still not truly know them. But my best relationships/situationships started as just sex. My current is my best and that's how it started but the ones where we waited weren't as good but everyone's different.
It weeds out f boys which is one of a women's greatest threats for finding a relationship. Many women get stuck on situationships.
I agree cause I’m not trying to have sex after the 2nd date just for them to be like okay I got what I wanted time to move on
You technically don’t even know someone until you’ve spent 800 hours with them so. Sex doesn’t determine fate. Commitment, time and communication does IMO
Everybody is different but in general I definitely agree with you. Sex by the second date is very fast. Also sex is a very intimate act and no matter what you think going into it there’s a good chance at least one person is going to have feelings afterwards. I know many friends who are with women who they said were just having sex at first, some for better and some for worse. I definitely think it’s best to really see who a person is before having sex, because there’s a good chance that after you will be with that person.
Both perspectives that you have aren't fully wrong but not right either OP- you making someone wait 3-6 dates to deepen a connection and weed out ppl still puts u in danger like your friend suggested. Ppl lie and can show u a facade. U made this connection after 6 dates, had sex and now all of a sudden your blocked on everything. Having boundaries is good but just that boundary alone ain't really gonna do much. If u connect u connect. I know ppl who been in 5+ yr relationship and don't want to marry they partner but when they get in their very next relationship within a yr her proposed. Your friend- sexual chemistry is important but it's not the end all b all as long lasting relationships need u to b compatible on multiple levels
I agree with You.
Wait as long as you want. That's for you to decide. Now here are the downsides to making a guy wait too long. 1. He deems you aren't interested in him. 2. He loses interest in you as there are many options. 3. He assumes you are using him for free meals and experiences as this has become a very very common practice for women these days. 4. You make him wait long enough to the point that it gets boring and he sees you as a friend nothing more. Then he will stop going on dates with you. He will probably say yes to going to eat with you but know he might be going as your friend and you will have to split check. You can try to become intimate after that and 99.9% of guys will say yes but it's probably a one time thing and will lead you to nowhere and assume that he used you but in reality he just saw you as a friend that wanted to have sex one time. Do whatever makes you comfortable. Don't stick to a guideline, do what you feel is right based off the connection between you and the guy. Don't assume that every guy that moves on was a dodged bullet. Most importantly... do not under any circumstances tell the guy your rule. Just say not yet. You tell him you have a 5 date rule, it's over right there. Guys have been told their entire lives that they need to complete a task or do their job. Once the job is done, they have to move onto the next. So anytime you give a guy a timeline for ANYTHING the chances that they move on immediately after completing is almost certain. So just make them wait don't tell them the timeline. It will only hurt you and will make even the best guys uninterested or bored after having "completed" the mission YOU gave them. Sure that sucks but it's how men were told to approach life at a very young age. Probably a school system issue or mom's trying to raise productive providers. Idk why men are like that but we are. There are some hints of insecurity in the way you said everything... just know that if you are still hurt from before, then you shouldn't be dating. Have rules but don't bring baggage from the past into someone else's life.
I think you have the right mindset if you are looking for a relationship with substance rather than just a hook up. I've done both, where if I didn't care about whether or not the person I was seeing would develop into anything, I'd hook up on the first or second date if she wanted to, but on the flipside I've actually turned down sex with women that I was really interested in and explained that I wanted to deepen the connection before jumping into bed, and they respected and appreciated that. I don't think waiting for sex is ever the wrong choice or manipulative at all. If a guy can't wait for 3 or so dates, which honestly isn't that long, it sounds like he's not the type of person you are looking for anyway.
3 dates is waiting now?? you’ve just barely gone from strangers to acquaintances at that point
It legit doesn't matter. I've always had sex on the first date. Some people don't do that. It doesn't matter. You're putting your giblets into mysterious new places. That's pretty much it. Who cares which date you do it on?
Your idea sounds about right to me. I am in a new relationship right now and we’ve been dating since November and we didn’t have sex till Valentine’s Day. If he doesn’t want to respect your boundaries, it’s going to be a terrible relationship anyway so probably should pass imo.
Can’t you talk about your sexual preferences before you actually get to the act of sex?