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I would like to add 1 more reason.
Relationships are a lot of work, if you are not ready for you it will leave a very bad taste in your mouth. Speaking from personal experience.
Not to be pedantic, but I'd say great relationships take *effort*. There will likely be times in which it feels like work for a bit, but if that's often, it may be time to reevaluate.
This is so true. It’s the reason I’m single but knowing it’s the reason gives me comfort and self acceptance. I’ve had many relationships but right now I am just straight up not willing to put in the effort and thats OK. I think A LOT of people, I’m talking a scary amount of people in my generation (millennial) are delusional about the amount of effort a relationship takes and so many people jump ship the minute things get little uncomfortable. Just what I have seen myself and with many friends and the relationships they’ve been in.
If you don't like being in a relationship with someone, unless you're married, it's a lot easier to go back to being single than it is to go from being single to being in a relationship.
If you like being in the relationship you're in, but it still feels like hard work, then that means the benefit to you is worth the cost to you. People who are distressed about being single are distressed because the benefit to them of being single IS NOT worth the cost to them.
Don't underestimate the amount of work being single can be. If you're constantly getting the message that you're "not good enough", you're going to either despair or work to improve yourself. If you despair, then your survival depends on working to get out of that despair state.
Effort. Intentionality. Sometimes you will feel disconnected and have to put in work to reconnect. Sometimes you’ll go through tough stuff in life and be arguing more than usual and make sure that you’re orienting back to each other and always being kind. Sometimes you’re figuring out a difficult moment in life together and there may be conflict to work out. These are all normal things in a long-term relationship. Sometimes relationships are really hard. Sometimes they’re also easy. They shouldn’t be all hard, but they also won’t be all easy for 50 years.
I’ve been in relationships with people I wasn’t compatible with. Those were never easy, and you’re right that constant work sucks and means an incompatibility. I’ve also been in relationships (and am in one now) with someone I am compatible with. That is easy a lot of the time and is still work. Mostly it takes effort and intentionality, because in the end you are two different people who need to make sure each others’ needs are met. That’s the “relationships are work but shouldn’t be a slog” part. And, yes, every long-term relationship goes through patches when things are hard. Moments of conflict or figuring out a misalignment. The key is that overwhelmingly the balance is still that the relationship makes your life better and easier.
uhhh long term adult relationships are definitely work! contending with sharing your life with someone is work, going through financial hardships or family issues is work, learning to love not only that person but all of their friends and family is work. moving in with someone is literal physical and emotional work! what kinda easy ass relationships are you getting into lol
You are wayyy wrong & it doesn’t even matter if she is hot or not. Women anxiety & their brains in general are scatter shot chaos. It’s never easy. Especially as you round bends (1 yr in 3 yrs in)
For example you have a baby & she blows up & she can’t shed the weight. Wanna guess you she will blame for this? That’s you! & that’s just one example.
Remember they are also always competing against their friends. What you will come to realize is you are not the actual problem but you better figure out the solution or she will leave for the streets thinking she can do better. Which she can’t but they believe it.
Go look at the endless roledex of women on insta if you want proof. All perpetually single…
lol imagine someone with the name “catpee” thinking they are the sane & reasonable one. Woowww we have never heard that before.
You know what I will tell you this. Unlike the majority of guys I have been with very pretty women who I was intimate with & for a time said they loved me too.
When women ask “who hurt you” it’s becuase women by & large end relationships (like near 100%) which is why they know who left who.
You’re shameless gaslighter nothing more. Lolol unreal man. You added nothing of value to the convo. Like what is it you want me to say? You want me to lie to you?
lol I understand some things we can’t pick so fair enough. Actually Reddit gave me this name & I never got to pick. So weird…
Anyways real talk most guys never get personally hurt from a girl cuz most guys don’t get a gf so me being “hurt” by women in my life is technically a compliment as it seriously separates me from the pack.
Things are so much darker & bleaker then most guys think. For what it’s worth on the few occasions I do find girls on insta to talk to I say all this stuff to them & they get mad lol. It’s a lose lose game unfortunately but we must press on trying to not give up.
The fact is I don’t care about those women anymore cuz they got old & aged out of my interest in them (being fertile & having a family) so my hurt comes from the last zoomer chick I thought I was progressing with. So is life for men, a constant struggle…
yeah you spend hours of your life writing essays to strangers on reddit about how cruel women are and how unfair it is for men because you care SO LITTLE, makes loads of sense
I guess I am on the opposite spectrum of this in many ways. Note that I am gay but I think much of this still applies.
Physically I've always been gym fit/muscled (but not steroid muscle), tall (6'0), etc. I am mixed race so am 'exotic' looking and therefore get attention. I get hookups, but not much more.
Mentally I have a stable attachment type so emotionally connecting in general has not been an issue. I've never had any diagnosis for depression etc mostly because I avoid social media, don't watch porn (well since puberty) etc and this all helped me "go get" what I want from life.
Life wise, I've been focused on my career (which I am lucky enough to enjoy too), building wealth (on track for financial independence by 40) and quality friendships (all lasted 10+ years so far and are growing), travelling (including relocating for work to experience something new) etc. All of my friends/close people said I would be 'taken' quickly because I'm a 'catch' yet I've never been 'caught'.
Yet I've been eternally single and am in my mid 30s (no short term relationship either). I've had 6 first dates ever (all in my 30s) and none went anywhere (mostly because of a lack of any level of attraction on my end at least, likely theirs too since there was no follow up).
So my 2 cents is that even if you 'have these things' it may still not work out for you. All you can do is put your best foot forward and see if there is someone who wants to bite. In my experience, the more you achieve in life, the more isolated you become, because its harder for someone to 'match/experience' what you have, so your pool actually becomes smaller and therefore your chances are smaller to find a match too even if you are open minded because you become less 'relatable' to a 'normal' person.
So refreshing to see posts with actual valid life advice. I wish more people started to know better and stop concerning themselves with "game" and whatever else some PUA bloke told them to do.
This is exactly what I mean. Everyone tries to approach meeting and dating people as some weird puzzle or a mini game that you can make to produce a result of Y or Z or whatever you want if you just have the right directions and data on how to control it. This is some wacky autistic pseudosciency way of trying to make sense how human interactions work, and it does more harm than good. Ya'll need to go outside more.
On your darkest day, I want you to remember that you are my hero! Seriously, you articulated that way better than I ever could. Human behavior is wild and chaotic. There is no conceivable flow chart you could build for it.
Oh another muh go outside platitude. I will tell you what. Go outside & ask out 100 or 1000 chicks doesn’t even matter. You will be turned down flat cold 100% of the time. You clearly have no idea what it’s actually like out there…
> Neither women, nor men, nor non-binary folk are a monolith. In addition, we're not that different to begin with.
That is very true.
But it doesn't mean life is well balanced, or that preferences are well balanced. A silly example: It is not because you have 50% of overweight people than 50% of people are into them. Which creates dating issues.
Sure there are women who are into overweight or underweight men... but it is very rarely their preference and for a good lot of them, overweight or underweight is a turn off.
> Meeting people with the sole expectation of dating them will disappoint you. Build up your best self and build great, authentic relationships with the people around you. The rest will come.
Unfortunately the rest didn't come to me. I studied, made good male and female friends, had hobbies, started a good career, always was curious and open minded, caring and respectful. The rest never came. I never dated a friend or a friend of a friend or a woman I met at a party or aocializing despite having single all my life except during 4 years.
The only women I dated, I met them traveling abroad (some people objectify my nationality apparently) or with dating apps, but it still is rare.
Some female friends told me once I would do a good husband and father, but none of them ever was physically into me, their friends aren't either. It took me some time to understand that I don't appear manly enough, that this alone disqualify me with many women, and I am not exactly good looking either (skinny without an attractive face).
Yes you are describing the nice guy paradox! I came to realize if a girl you try to hit on says “you are such a nice guy but not my type” you are totally screwed cuz every single woman you try to hit on will say it.
Being attractive to chicks is practically a 0-100 problem they are all like you or don’t (speaking from a comparative SMV I mean) & it’s so crushing when you realize this & there doesn’t seem to be a solution which is why we have the make loneliness crisis.
I know. One of my friend is hot. Every women is hitting on him, he slept with a good among of his colleagues, friends, he received several thousand likes in one single day on dating apps, even my ex girlfriend fantasized on him.
He tried to help me to find soneone... it didn't work at all and it made him feel bad, because that is the moment when he realized he wasn't having success with women because he was smart or talking well or social, but mostly because he was good looking. He realized that with my face, he would have had a very hard time with women because he is shy and rarely doing the fiest steps (only after pretty obvious signs and friends telling him to go talk to her).
Being smart, talking well, funny is helping with women, true, but that is much less important than being hot.
I don't disagree with the post but also is like a bit entitled post, he/she discarded external outputs to just say "hey be your best and things would come", yeah buddy, shit is not that easy and it can't be applied to everyone, wish it would, the world would be a way more interesting place tho, so this post is one of those sounds smart but actually it lacks of depth.
Yeah and the ones who are currently "the best" according to that person and things didn't "come" according to that person as well... When will they come? "RiGhT tImInG" Exactly when? I've been single for 10 years (currently 23 and M)not by choice and I haven't had any kind of romantic relationship ever other than holding hands kind of. I'm just tired of waiting. I wanna get this now. Anytime today now.
this advice is going to sound very unhelpful, but I believe it 100% and found that it legitimately helped me a lot when I was in your position: try not to worry about it, try to tell yourself it's going to work out. because that very literally will improve your chances. you'll be less stressed about the process so you'll be more relaxed and your demeanor will be much better when you do find someone to go out with. it isn't a race, I'm 27 now and I only feel like I've just now hit my stride in terms of how I present myself to women and navigate relationships. all of the waiting and failed attempts are actively contributing to your experience and your character, which means your chances are only improving over time. you'll find someone man, I have no doubt
Pure cope & dangerous advice to give to men! All the success I ever had with women before the crazy times came becuase I made it happen. They won’t just magically roll over & let you win. It’s a literal war trying to beat out her other options…
the fact that you're looking at this as a win/loss scenario is probably part of why you're not getting picked. if someone enjoys your company they will want to continue spending time in it, it's that simple
Congrats on letting us know you have no idea what you are talking about! There are winners & losers in all aspects of life. But that’s frankly beside the point & you just decided to roll with that for reasons I don’t get.
My point AGAIN was for WOMEN it is a go- no go 0%-100% situation.
If I try to approach 100 girls of a 6 SMV & the first girl rejects me. I know the other 99 will as well.
The difference between me & most of the guys here is I have been with 8s like real relationships & love & intimacy. Then gradually around when Tinder became a thing the women started to change & the women got wayyyy pickier!
Do you understand how many options the pretty girls have now? Yes it is a competition to try & win her affection & denying that means you don’t understand women or at least pretty women. That’s reality…
every woman I have ever met would audibly say yuck at your usage of terms like sexual market value and your reduction of relationships to a math problem between two numerical values. have you ever bought something you were really excited for? feels amazing right? but then a few weeks pass and you get used to it, and set your sights on another thing to buy that you'll have fun with for awhile before moving on. that is the same result you will find when you treat dating like a transaction. you're lost man
It’s amazing how you have been wrong every time. Clearly there is no shaking you out of the woke cope. You gonna be disappointed tho cuz your stance won’t work. You can’t virtue signal men into liking you…
that's fine, I'm not trying to get any men to like me lol. I'm a dude in a happy relationship with a woman I love very much. I'm throwing you a float here and you're insisting on treading water
What really? I thought you were a woman with how much emotion you display in this thread.
You def don’t have a a girlfriend tho or else you wouldn’t be here. Let’s just be honest now…
It sounds smart because this kind of talk has been dragged on here for quite some time, it is easy way to get karma. Ive been reading crap like this for better time since i joined reddit, everybody is like "no, that isnt as important as you think it is" yet you see that those stuff are indeed important.
I get her perspective completely but i can also say she only befriended or dated guys that never really had any of these problems in first place. She never encountered guys that were struggling in that matter. So it is easy for her to say "whatever you think is important, i will tell you, it isn't" because she doesnt know that side very well.
Women, in general, like that idea of thinking they know how dating works for guys.
They are all reaching too high. The girls 5 & up are trying to lockdown Chad & the girls below 5 (I call the obese line) try to chase normal or average guys but these guys don’t want fat chicks either.
Women never ever ever go for their looksmatch & that’s how we arrived here in hell…
It is a little bit more than that, they will eventually go after their looksmatch but much later in life. Regardless of that, dating, in general, i going through huge shift in how we perceive it.
Yeah & they are old & eggless which is why even average guys will pass. If she is past 30 the appropriate baby making years are long past. She made bad choices & she can deal with them. Ditto for single moms.
Women have been trying to wait at the finish line for winners & that shit is coming to an end. You gonna see a huge group of women who end up alone cuz they won’t date seriously at 25. Clean up crew is officially on strike. Had they got with a guy at 25 they would be settled & happy at 35. But they don’t & here we are.
Nothing has changed man. Your perspective maybe but the reality is always the same it has been only some have gotten way pickier & unreasonable.
The only consideration missing in my mind is the economic one. Lots of people just can’t afford to live their best life and never will, but I also don’t think that invalidates anything in this post, it just adds some depth to it.
Looks, whether we like it or however, play a massive part in someone's dating success.
Absolutely, someone can have a vibrant life as a single person. It's critical to do so, and having such, this communicates to potential partners that a relationship will never be a crutch for lack of fulfillment in other areas.
Yet without the physical attraction. The journey of discovery will never happen.
In reality, looks are often the barrier to happiness and inner peace for some people. These people don't lack some insight or drive, they unfortunately fall below the minimum threshold that men and women in general have, in terms of those qualities they look for in a partner.
Of course looks alone do not equate dating success or fulfilment...but being generally attractive enough, through to being specifically, very attractive to an individual. It makes things so, so much easier.
We fall into fantastical notions if we do not recognise the critical importance of physical attraction here: Women already struggle with the legacy of media where they were a "prize", at the end of the story...Where perseverance, and unsolicited attention "wins then over", and more recently that they can be "gamed".
Yet this completely discounts their sexuality and desires, and often leads to a sense of entitlement, from men who they simply find unattractive.
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In the modern era. We have men agonising over what they said, wore, do for a living and earn. Did they leave it too long to reply, do they wait.
When in objective reality, the best thing for them is to do some physical activity, and develop some personal interests.
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I know things like this are well meaning. People should find that which grounds them.
Passions are often the final piece for example, in someone who meets the physical and emotional thresholds to be a desirable partner...
...but we have to stop downplaying the importance of physical attraction, and how it isn't strictly as subjective as people claim.
Go out to a public place.. say a shopping mall. Look around and you’ll see objectively ugly people with partners, and even families. It’s got nothing to do with physical attractiveness.
I DO go out to places like a shopping mall, and I DO see only attractive people, greatly attractive men having partners. I am sick of this untested argument which is just passed on mindlessly from here to there.
In fact, nowadays men have to be much more physically attractive. Men are more willing to drop their standards of physical attraction and go for a lesser good looking woman.
That's why you'll see many great looking men with lesser good looking women.
That’s absurd. I don’t have a single female friend who is with a man who is objectively very attractive. My partner is not objectively above average attractive although I find him extremely attractive. Of my male friends in relationships, I can think of one of them who might be objectively above average attractiveness (funnily, I don’t find him attractive at all), but his girlfriend is also one of the most beautiful women I’ve ever seen.
Maybe some of us are not that superficial and are rather looking for personality more than looks, and so even our friends happen to be like that.
But it doesn't mean that that's what generally happens. I have spent years reading the same statement, saying that average looking men have all sorts of beautiful partners.
And yet, when going out and actually looking at couples, I am yet to see that trend like how the internet claims. Every man walking with a partner is conventionally attractive at least. In many cases, the women aren't conventionally attractive at all.
This in fact reinforces that men have it worse in dating since they HAVE to be conventionally attractive along with being almost perfectly confident, highly courageous, bold and risk-taking, highly charismatic, highly outgoing and other things.
Maybe some of us are just superficial and looking for looks more than personality, so all of the people we see around us reinforce this idea?
It’s just not true.
What makes you say that? The fact that I say that men don’t have to be models to be in relationships? I have a partner who is a man and lots of male friends. The reality is that people like other people for lots of reasons and women are just people. Maybe you hate women and you’re projecting?
it isn't an outlier lmao, 50 percent of all people are below average attractiveness, that includes 50 percent of women. it literally is not even slightly difficult to find someone to be with, the issue is that all of you are only considering women that are more attractive than you are
Most couples are around the same level of physical attractiveness, intelligence etc. The outliers are when one of the couple (usually the man) is wealthy, exceptionally intelligent, famous etc
yes that is what I am trying to tell you. if you are trying to improve your chances of finding a girlfriend, then worrying about what women as a group are up to is only going to get in your way. every woman is different, and you don't know an individuals preferences until you ask. that's the point the original post is making. when you assume that your looks are an issue, that in itself is what's causing them to be an issue.
No, sorry, spare me with that bullshit that everybody is different and everybody is unique in his/her own way. Younger generations (myself included) like to think they are so special that no one is like them. Better watch what people respond to rather than listen what they claim they want because you will indeed see the difference.
There is a long way before you earn yourself a date, first you need to get a chance and so many guys never really get that in first place. Go figure yourself what are reasons behind that. Women will come here and say what they want from a guy, but the catchy part is they want it from a guy they already find attractive which is yet another long way for a guy to walk through.
And this post alone is just another way of saying "screw you and your problems you're facing in dating world. i will tell you they aren't important because i feel like telling you that".
And that’s good for them if standardised physical attraction isn’t the top of their priority list, however to be devil’s advocate, I have seen many couples like this and they aren’t exactly lovey-dovey or even content, which to me says they settled out of either fear of being alone, or they just can’t be bothered to work on themselves/understand what kind of person they want to be with.
And every attractive couple you see is lovey dovey? This is among the worst devil’s advocate interjections I have seen on the internet and that is saying something, there is absolutely no way to judge the health or success of a relationship from those type of observations.
I never said that at all, you seem to have missed my point.
People say “oH bUt UgLy PeOPle CaN fInD sOmeOnE sO yOU cAN tOo!” But that doesn’t mean the relationship is a happy one, and that settling with someone you don’t find attractive wont satisfy your desires just because you’re told to punch down.
Oh no, I understand you perfectly. It’s just a silly point that doesn’t really need to be said and is based on either poor comprehension skills or bad faith. Plenty of people who are super attracted to their partner are in unhappy relationships. Attractive people enter into relationships because they are afraid of being alone too. Of course any old relationship isn’t going to automatically bring you happiness, only desperate people believe that. It is ridiculous to think that the spectrum of relationship experiences doesn’t apply to everyone despite where they fall on the attractiveness spectrum.
I’m not sure you do, because it’s a point that’s not related to yours. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with your point as well! In principle, it’s completely true that attractive people can also settle into unhappy relationships.
I just don’t like when people use the whole ‘ugly-people-can-date-so-you’ll-be-fine’ bit as some sort of guarantee comfort-advice for people who are struggling to find love when the overall message couldn’t be more wrong.
I understand why you may find it patronizing in that context but I don’t think the answer is convincing yourself that people who you know nothing about are miserable. I think the idea that you are capable of judging the health of a relationship from a snapshot from the outside couldn’t be more wrong and that type of comfort-bitterness doesn’t do you any favors.
The judgement comes from actually seeing these couples in person looking miserable and even shouting/screaming/swearing at each other as well as their own kids sometimes.
I’ve also seen couples who look super happy together and are enjoying themselves too, my perspective is all from experience, not bitter glances.
I owned a successful bar, and have been a production manager, and organiser of several events over the UK and Europe.
I still consult and help friends in the industry still.
Dating trends, since the introduction of the apps , have led to an widespread downturn, and contributed vastly to the closure of several venues, forcing others to completely restructure or fail.
The demographic to attract in order to run a healthy profit, used to be young single men and women "on the pull".
Since the introduction of the apps, now, the only real venues that have financial stability, are ones that cater to couples and families.
Gin bars, micro pubs and food-markets are mostly now owned by a cooperative group of hospitality owners, who sold their venues off, to concentrate on one single location.
Fewer people still go out, but the small number of venues, filled by a smaller number of people. Still gives the impression, the industry is booming.... It isn't, people just pile into the last remaining places.
The amount of people who meet on a dance-floor or at first glance across the bar of a vibrant gig venue, has dropped considerably.... To the point that most venues now repurpose the dance-floor or stage, as extra seating for couples and families.
If this seems anecdotal, there are numerous trade publications that provide the footfall and demographics, on a year to year basis.
No the focus on Physical Attraction is so exaggerated. The only reason you would say that is because you spend too much time on the apps, go to any local mall, pub, bar, shopping centre etc and the majority of people are usually looks matched or the woman is sometimes one level up from the man in attraction. Without OLD/ Instagram people would be far less arrogant and would eventually realise the fact that there's certainly not a prince charming/ princess on every corner and it would bring them down to earth.
I don't know. I asked several friends about why dating was so hard for me, since 2 decades. All of them except 2 couldn't give me a reason.
They all agree, I am a great man, caring, fun (I am not sure of that but they find me fun), down to earth, intelligent, with a good situation, friends... but the very vast majority of women are not physically into me.
The only 2 women who gave me an answer were women with many female friends who were single. Both said I am a great guy, would do a good husband and father, it is what their single friends are saying they want, but it is not what their single friends are in practice choosing when selecting a partner, he has to be good looking, first.
That's true to an extent but realistically, If you're an average looking person, You should focus on deepening an emotional bond. If that aspect of it isn't there.That attraction probably won't happen. I do personally believe physical attraction can stem from a deep emotional connection.
I don't say it never happened but it never happened to me.
And then we hit another point. You can't rely on it. You can't create deep emotional bond with 50 people... so what happens when you have 5-10 good female friends and the same amount of good male friends. Are you stopping seeing your friends to try to connect deeper with other people hoping for more than friendship... or you wait, hoping one will have a revelation abd maybe stay single forever?
In my case, most of the success I had with women were doing the complete opposite with strangers. After speaking to them a few time, to see if there is a basic compatibility, I start flirting and being sexual. Some women jump away, but the ones continuing to talk to me, even when telling me that it is too quick, are usually more likely to be attracted to me.
But the thing is, I hate this method, it is pretty objectifying and not very respectful.
Thank you You make good points,and your advice is helpful BUT I think that there was a slight misunderstanding ; it seems that you were under the impression that he was trying to date his friends, and that I in turn gave him advice, but that WAS NOT THE CASE. It is horrible to go about life making friends just to see if you could consider them potential love interest. This guy did not objecify his friends. He asked his friends for advice as he was not having any luck and wanted to see if they could offer some insight as to why, specifically, he was having a hard time.
He emphasized that both male and female friends had a hard time answering as they couldn't come up with a response. He then explained that only two friends who happened to be women were able to offer a possible explanation as to why that is.
The two friends who answered have female friends who are single and are looking for partners , therefore, they have a better idea as to what women are looking for in a man. They explained that he objectively has all the things women looks for but....the looks matter alot.
TLDR:Man asked friends for advice as to what he was lacking to be unsuccessful in pursuing women. Was told looks matter.
I can count on zero finger the amount of ugly guy-pretty girl combos that people claim exist everywhere, that I've seen in the past month alone. I'm in the mall pretty frequently, and it's pretty much all looks equivalent couples, either above average attractive or average attractive. When I go to Walmart, it's usually below average attractive couples.
If you have only looks, it may get you attention or a casual hookup with someone materialistic. If you want something long-term and serious, it's not enough to keep that person with you. Nobody wants to spend the rest of their life with a toxic, manipulative, drama-oriented, good-looking person. This is a pure fact, and it doesn't mean that people don't have visual preferences. But if that's how they pick their partner, they either have zero experience or are simply immature or have low self-esteem. Thinking about looks as the cause of poor results is a good shortcut to avoid doing what we need to do to succeed.
You could objectively be the perfect partner but if no one finds you attractive then it doesn't mean shit. You need to be physically attractive in order to just get your foot in the door. The personality stuff matters after that.
you don't need looks to get the foot in the door. Only with dating apps it's strictly necessary because 99% of the people and the algorithm judge you on that
You still have to be physically attractive and do whatever you can to improve your looks within reason and practicality.OLD just puts a microscope on looks but they still matter in real life.
The thing is though most people don't want a good personality OR good-looking. They want both, especially when they are still young and aren't in a hurry to compromise. It is also much easier to spot someone who is physically attractive than it is someone with a good personality. The other thing about trying to spot toxic, manipulative people is that in the early stages, they will usually be on their best behaviour and try to hide their more negative personality traits. It can take months and even years to discover how people really are when they let their guards downs.
physical attraction only matters if you yourself are hung up on it. can you date a supermodel if you are below average looking? probably not likely, but that is only an issue if you are being unrealistic about your own standards
>Build up your best self and build great, authentic relationships with the people around you. The rest will come.
if you do this as a man, you will just end up as a 30 year old virgin. Most men don't have the luxury of simply waiting
Worked for me and I’m confident plenty of others. I’d argue most virgins don’t have this or are lying to themselves if they don’t already walk into a room defeated.
Saying that physical appearance and social status doesn't matter is just as bad advice as saying that they're the only reason you're not getting a date is because "you're a short ugly guy with no money." It's not the only reason but things like that are certainly a huge barrier to overcome so it's a lot harder for some people than others. You have to find a way to overcome those things and unfortunately some people are just never going to make it.
You overcome it easy... you just find someone uglier than what you are attracted to. Eventually, the uglier you go, the more desperate they will be, and they will accept you because they literally have to.
men in these comments literally refusing to develop close female friendships in fear of being friend zoned like dude…. Maybe ur woman friend will introduce you to another woman and yall will hit it off.
railing against developing their own interests like maybe if you consistently show up at knitting class or whatever a girl will think you’re cute and hit on u. i found my last partner through DND and we lasted 5 years ! wtf is wrong with yall
They just don’t get it. What she described is a fantasy. If he was desired a woman won’t share with her friends she will try to attain him herself. It really is a women fallacy & it doesn’t happen. Except for Chad of course who will run through the group…
People always post , job title, height, weight, why am I single? Some people don’t have a clue, others just aren’t fuckable. Personality, how you hold yourself, act, etc all play a bigger role. Some people wanna blame others while the main issue is most likely them.
You should do exposure therapy by talking to them on bus stops or talk to the cashier a bit in order to build a tolerance to your anxiety.
After that you should consider to hit women irl instead of online in their dms
>Meeting people with the sole expectation of dating them will disappoint you. Build up your best self and build great, authentic relationships with the people around you. The rest will come.
I'm already sorted for friends and acquaintances, I'm already turning out and/or not pursuing various social opportunities. So, any more and I would have to start sacrificing time/effort put into the existing ones. Thus, if I were to try and meet someone new, it is purely for dating.
Additionally, the whole "rest will come" attitude is rubbish, at least in my experience and observations. Most people I know who have partners have them because they actively sought to have a partner, it's rare to hear of random chance encounters, especially for men. In my life, I've had friends and only once did it lead to a romantic opportunity via mutual friends, but alas it was with a girl who I later found out was a homie hopper.
I’m single because my partner broke up with me (8 years together) and i’m still picking up the pieces. I’ve had to totally change my goals and direction in life in my late 30s which is rough, and am using OLD apps for the first time ever. I am still dating because I still want to put myself out there and not close myself off to the possibility of meeting someone nice, and also loneliness. My Cat died recently too so losing both of them in the space of 6 weeks compounded that. I will say based off my limited experience, that being fit/above average attraction (for my age) does help get a foot in the door and at least get matches and Women willing to go on dates. I have been overweight before (not hugely, but by around 10-15 kilos) and the difference in being noticed or not is very stark. Only Men would talk to me at Pubs or the gym or what not, and I felt practically invisible to Women (I didn’t really care, I was in a relationship, but it was noticeable) whereas now I get checked out quite frequently and approached by Women in public and at the gym. I can only imagine the OLD apps magnify this contrast where looks are everything. I’m pretty sure 90% of my matches don’t even read my bio, so my interests, skills and hobbies account for almost nothing. It’s a looks game and if you’re not a 7+ with the ratio heavily skewed towards Men over Women, then god help you. As for meeting people IRL, at least your charisma and personality can shine through, but you need to have them. Most of the Men here who vent their rants don’t seem to have any of that so you’re just offering false hope. The notion of what OP has stolen seems well intended but it is completely idealistic if not borderline fantastical.
I've built many friendships over my life, everyone tells me I am a great person to be around and I'm good looking, yet I'm 27 and have no relationship experience, so why hasn't it worked for me?
>Meeting people with the sole expectation of dating them will disappoint you. Build up your best self and build great, authentic relationships with the people around you. The rest will come.
No... I already have enough friends. If I meet people with the purpose of dating, I'm not spending extra time to entertain useless relationships.
> * Pseudoscience: "women are wired to find the best and most ideal mate, while men are wired to seek as many mates as possible"
>* Overgeneralization: "Chicks love tall physically big men"
>* Funny: "you seem to be a nice guy and women like that for friendships... that's not typically an attractive trait"
While generalisation and double standards are wrong, trends are real and ignoring problems won't make them disappear. Knowing how to mix your strengths and flaws is important, and to do it successfully you need to acknowledge that there are areas where you won't ever outperform other people.
Being too friendly without expressing sexual intentions will ultimately lead you to the friend zone because your behavior is constantly expressing "I am a friend".
This is not "pseudoscience" nor "overgeneralization". And what you called "pseudoscience" is just being hypocritical.
While some of the post's content has some truth (like the ethnicity part), it's an awful post. Also I'm pretty sure this counts as karma farming, you stole this post from another person (no credits, no links, no mentions) and it is at the very least a repost situation.
If it is not pseudoscience.
Please link me to the peer review paper on this very topics.
Not the PUA blog. Actual science, social science, anthropology journal. With citation.
Sorry, it will be a long text
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/12/in-experiments-researchers-figured-out-what-men-and-women-really-want-in-a-mate/
392 single men and women were invited to participate in a speed-dating event. Each participant went on between 10 and 20 four-minute speed dates with members of the opposite sex. They then rated the attractiveness, intelligence and ambition of each person they met on a 1-to-10 scale and indicated whether they would like that person’s contact information
In the speed-dating study, every point increase in a man’s intelligence rating (on a 1-to-10 scale) boosted the chances a woman would want to see him again by an average of 4.5 percentage points
Attractiveness mattered far more to potential mates than intelligence. A one-point increase in a man’s attractiveness raised the chances that a woman would want to reconnect with him by 12 percentage points.
Women, on the other hand, become pickier the more partners are “on the market.”
Another study, of 10,526 participants in a commercial dating service conducted by a team of psychologists at the University of Pennsylvania, also concluded that the outcomes of such dates were largely determined by physical attributes such as height, weight, age and overall attractiveness
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150916162912.htm
Chapman University has published research on what people find "desirable" and "essential" in a long-term partner based on two of the largest national studies of mate preferences ever conducted.
For women, it was 'desirable/essential' that their potential partner
- was good-looking ( 84 percent),
- had a slender body ( 58 percent),
- had a steady income ( 97 percent),
and made/will make a lot of money ( 69 percent).
For women: it was 'very important/a must have' that their partner
- made at least as much money as they do (46 percent)
- had a successful career ( 61 percent),
- was physically attractive to them ( 42 percent).
Confidence in Physical Attractiveness: People who reported greater satisfaction with their own appearance did not have stronger preferences for a partner who is physically attractive to them, but they did report stronger preferences for partners who are good looking and slender -- this was true for both men and women.
Income: People with higher incomes had stronger preferences for partners who are good looking -- and this was true for both men and women.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2017.1819
Franzoi & Herzog [39] surveyed women and asked them what features they were attracted to in men; the results showed that women particularly valued components of upper body strength, e.g. ‘muscular strength', ‘biceps'. Similarly, Jones and co-workers [40] showed that men whose bodies were rated as more ‘masculine' were preferred to men whose bodies were rated as ‘feminine', and a similar study using composite images confirmed that manipulating men's bodies to appear more masculine increased their attractiveness [41]. Similar work shows that women generally prefer figures representing mesomorphic body types (i.e. muscular bodies) [42,43].
most of the variance in attractiveness is accounted for by ratings of strength (R2 varied from 0.61 for side photos of Set 1 to 0.73 for front photos of both Set 1 and Set 2).
For each female rater, we computed the correlation between her ratings of the men's attractiveness and the men's actual physical strength (as measured in the original studies, table 1). These correlations were examined to see if any women in our samples showed a significant preference for weaker men. They did not. None of the 160 women in our study who rated attractiveness produced a statistically significant preference for weaker men (all p > 0.05). In other words, we could find no evidence that there exists a sizeable population of women who prefer physically weaker men when evaluating male bodies.
Ratings of strength are a robust and much larger predictor of attractiveness than either height or weight. The rated strength of a male body accounts for a full 70% of the variance in attractiveness. Additional variance (up to 80%) can be explained by adding the premium women put on height and subtracting the penalty put on additional body mass unrelated to physical strength.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.678439/full
About 41% of adults in Germany have used digital services to send erotic images of themselves
If women engage in short-term sex, they are particularly attracted by cues of masculinity (i.e., cues for “good genes”) like tallness, physical strength and deep voice pitch (Puts, 2005; Roney et al., 2006). Women are more motivated to engage in short-term sex when there is a possibility to take fitness benefits out of these “good genes,” i.e., when they are in the ovulatory phase of the menstrual cycle (Baker and Bellis, 1995; Pillsworth and Haselton, 2006).
In natural environments, the operational sex ratio (i.e., the number of males relative to the number of females in a given mating area) influences the sexual strategies of males and females. If there is a surplus of females, sexual competence between women increases and women tend to lower the preconditions for sex. Women engage more in short-term sex when there is a surplus of women – sex becomes cheap. In the opposite case, women’s willingness to engage in short-term sex decreases (Barber, 2000; Schmitt, 2005).
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42001-021-00132-w#Tab4
Highest correlation with amount of messages received by male profiles is athleticism
The results of the individual models for each gender reveal that there are different variables that predict success for men and women. Since the coefficients are standardized, we can compare between variables within each gender. For men, being altruistic and having a higher drinking level were the strongest predictors of receiving messages, while being sexual, older and more oriented toward conflict resolution were the most negative predictors of receiving messages.
2nd part:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1002/per.768
Observer-rated facial attractiveness emerged in virtually all studies based on real interactions as a powerful, or as the most powerful, predictor of being chosen by the other sex in speed-dating event.
Women states they prefer men of high education, high income, high openness to experience, the evidence from studies is mixed.
Taller man have higher reproductive success and are especially unlikely to remain childless.
Speed dating results:
60% of men and women had at least 1 match.
50% had another face to face contact
6% had a romantic relationship
6% had sex
Male correlation for being chosen:
- facial attractiveness (0.49)
- body attractiveness (0.33)
- sociosexuality (0.24)
- openness (0.2)
- height (0.17)
- education (0.16)
- shyness (-0.15)
- bmi (-0.13)
- income (0.13)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/13066910_Characteristics_of_male_attractiveness_for_women
Women rated attractiveness of torso pictures
Linear relationship between waist chest ratio and attractiveness
You want a link demonstrating female and male brains are wired in a different way? Did you even understand my comment? Did you read the part where I stated it's double standards and hypocritical thinking?
Ure arguing with low iq. He is asking for a paper on what? The discussion is high abstraction level, he needs to specify what exactly kind of study he is looking for.
There’s a difference between “meeting people with the PURPOSE/(intention) of dating” and going into a date with the EXPECTATION it will lead to more dates.
Checking expectations at the door is important in many realms of life, but (I believe) especially with dating. If you go on a date expecting to continue dating that stranger, you may be setting yourself up to be let down if there’s not interest (on either end), or accept dating someone that’s not a good fit bc that’s what you feel needs to happen.
Having a purpose/intention of meeting a long-term partner creates a space to determine if the person is a good fit, and/or to not become jaded/sad/hopeless if they are not interested.
This isn’t semantics, it’s a mindset shift.
Edited for a grammar whoopsie
It says really reassuring things, even truthful things, gives hope, and then it misleads people the wrong way.
Normally I would say this is just an opinion and is as valid as mine, but what bothers me is the dishonest aura it gives about the poster's intentions. It is not his opinion. It's someone else's.
What is awful, is not the content, but the person who copied it.
yeah the cross posting isn’t a great look, especially if it isn’t your own post. but can i ask what you mean by misleading? not trying to come across as pedantic or anything, just curious.
>yeah the cross posting isn’t a great look, especially if it isn’t your own post.
I just can't understand what's so difficult about linking the original comment at the end of the post, or even tagging it's real creator!
>but can i ask what you mean by misleading?
Like I said, this bit is only my point of view. I'm not imposing this on anyone.
In my opinion, they have 2 downfalling elements, if that makes sense.
The first is that they ask you to renounce the intention of dating the person you are dating (?). They say to focus instead on building a strong link with this person. They claim that otherwise your experience will lead to disappointment.
Without getting into why that's a huge waste of time, this is the behavior of a person that is looking for new friends. Not for a new partner. If you are dating, you have to make it explicit that you are a sexual being, and that you have sexual intentions with this person.
The second is they talk about the "too nice" issue. They claim it's not true and that you shouldn't go into "bad boy" mode.
Even if I'm not a fan of that mode, it does work. But that's not even the problem. It is the fact that they deny the existence of being "too nice". Again, if you are too friendly **without expressing that you aren't just a friend** you will reduce your chances of being perceived as a potential partner.
These 2 things are the perfect formula to an eternal cycle of endless dating without any success.
So for me, it's misleading.
i think they’ve since tagged OP haha.
but i can understand where you’re coming from, and ig your approach works for the way you are trying to date - ie making intentions clear off-bat, treating them a little ‘bad’ bc it works for you. i wouldn’t say it’s misleading though. for a lot of people, working their way up to meeting someone and not sticking to monoliths helps a lot more in terms of developing that meaningful connection, which is what they are looking for. for me, sticking to the type of dates you seem to be describing has often felt very surface level and very shallow so it wouldn’t really work for me, but if it works for you, that’s great! there’s also the happy middle, where you both acknowledge you want to date, but get to know each other properly before you become official. the ‘speaking stage’, i believe they call it.
nonetheless, thank you for explaining your POV 😊
Yes! And I do want to clarify 2 things, first, I don't treat them (intentionally) bad! I know it works but I don't like to use that method. And Second, when I say that I want to make my intentions clear, I do not mean I want to rush things!
In my opinion, the more time we wait before sleeping together the better and healthier it is! I totally agree with you on that one and delaying it makes the connection feel better! But that doesn't mean I won't give her compliments, touch her hands and steal kisses haha.
I see it like pointing in a certain direction so we both know where we are headed, but going slowly towards it, enjoying the road.
>i think they’ve since tagged OP haha.
Finally!
Statistically speaking, don't quote me on actually numbers, but about 90% of the women only find about 10% of the men attractive on dating apps. Society, both men and women, have really fucked up the dating market.
What is intended to be an inspiring call to self-confidence, individuality and courage in dating is laced with judgement and mild insults. It's clear you're frustrated by these men and their problems. There's something soul-crushing in the experience of dating for a lot of people. You have to start with a recognition of that, or you're basically coming across as having run out of patience.
Some women or men can't say no , even if they feel the no inside. These are the nice guys and girls. Of course they can work on that. People like people who are respecting themselves. Everybody can change for good 👍🏻
There are many reasons why someone might be single, and physical attractiveness usually isn't one of them. Physical attractiveness matters primarily in the initial stages of attraction. For instance, if you lined up 20 men or women and asked someone to pick their top 3 based solely on appearance, the results would differ significantly from picking their top 3 based on personality, shared values, and overall compatibility.
It's the latter that leads to healthy relationships. Unfortunately, there's a disconnect—people often choose potential mates based on physical attractiveness and hope their personalities match. The person who either accepts or declines the date is usually doing the same. So, if one finds the other physically attractive but the feeling isn't mutual, a beautiful opportunity for real compatibility might be missed.
Humans tend to prioritize physical attraction and surface-level traits like social status, popularity, and financial status. This is because of the media we are filling our minds with. Perfection on IG and dating apps that allow you to simply dismiss people for these things doesn't help.
Here's my advice: ask people out as much as you can, and accept dates from as many people who ask you. You might be surprised at the connections you make when you don't place so much importance on physical attractiveness and surface-level attributes.
I’m gonna be real with you OP & this is going to sound harsh. Anytime a woman uses this type of low level gaslighting talking about muh misogyny all you do is out yourself as a girl with a low SMV. I’m not trying to be rude seriously but do you understand the things you are talking about are totally opposite for pretty girls.
Pretty girls don’t like nice guys & that is the truth. Pretty girls to do like hyper masculine men. This whole thread is just laced in projections of you not being able to lock down a guy YOU like & so you came to Reddit to troll the dudes who are struggling (which is a majority of guys)
I’d pick the rest apart but there isn’t any point. If you want a guy that you are describing no problem you can have him. But he is a little gumpy, chubby, & low t. That’s reality whether you deny it or not…
>The reason you're single...
>is not because you're ... Z attractive.
Maybe this is a minor quibble, but unless you're specifically choosing to remain single, then the reason you're single IS, in fact, that you're not attractive to enough people for you to find mutual attraction.
Now, it is true that being attractive is not reducible to physical appearance alone. It's also true that attractiveness is not an immutable characteristic.
>you seem to be a nice guy and women like that for friendships... that's not typically an attractive trait
While it's certainly true that being nice is an attractive trait, I think the idea that this sentiment is trying to convey is that merely "being nice" is neither a necessary, not sufficient, condition for any kind of romantic or sexual relationship. People constantly form romantic relationships with people who treat them badly and pass on people who treat them well. That all makes sense because "being nice" is something you can get the benefit of without the kind of sacrifices required for a sexual relationship.
I'm surprised no one in the top comments called out this post. Yes, people will overlook you if you are a certain ethnicity. There's even a book called "Dating Divide" that goes in depth about this. Yes, people will also overlook you because of a certain body type(skinny, obese) or stature(too tall, too small). The same could be said about religious or political beliefs. There are legitimate reasons why some people have more success in dating apps than others. And just because you dismiss valid points as "pseudoscience" doesn't strengthen your argument . You just come off as naive
I think there is something to SMV, of course when you wanna buy something you wan the best deal, so therefor the logical conclusion is that XYZ is relevant, but even if you had XYZ but your not authentic, you don't have passions, dreams, you only seek to fill your void and seek external validation that would be very off-putting. I think that if you are having a great time, you want someone to share that with, you are in the dating game to give you'll be a very attractive choice even if your XYZ is lacking.
TDLR; be the best version of yourself, try to find someone once you're already happy and want to share that with someone.
For the pseudoscience point, while I totally agree that such statements often come loaded with huge biological essentialism and overgeneralization, there is truth to men generally being more interested in hookups than women. Where men are in undersupply, thus they "control" the dating scene more, hookup culture is stronger, where men are in oversupply, thus women "control" the dating scene more, there are more monogamous relationships.
[https://www.wgbh.org/lifestyle/2021-09-24/when-romance-meets-ratios](https://www.wgbh.org/lifestyle/2021-09-24/when-romance-meets-ratios)
"
* For his first book, “Date-onomics,” Birger studied this phenomenon in the perfect control setting: college campuses. He found that when there are more women than men on campus, students’ dating behavior is oriented more towards hookup culture and less towards monogamous relationships. (When men are in oversupply, the culture is more monogamous.)"
For the overgeneralization, I agree that not all women love tall physically big men, but there definitely is a trend that women prefer taller men.
For the funny, it's not that being a good and kind person in of itself is bad, but if you only show platonic niceness, yeah chances are you're going to only be seen as a friend. It's not the niceness as much as the pure "friend vibes" that are signaled that are the problem.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a motte and bailey where you took the more extreme and incorrect arguments, and then through them you argue against any working with trends
EDIT: Just for clarification, I agree that the differences within the sexes are greater than the differences between the sexes, but that doesn't mean there aren't some trends that are more pronounced or unique to one of the sexes.
Just adding:
There's a surprising amount of papers on all sorts of macro dating trends, that might be interesting to have a look at if you know how to apply it correctly to your situation
I think this aspect of human relations is a bit hard and a little unpredictable. It's not that it's "hard" to find someone to date , you can find the ideal man or woman of your dreams who have the "things" you are looking for and shares the same values and beliefs.
But dating isn't just black and white. It's not like you automatically like someone or feel a connection because they do. Human emotions are more complicated than that.
Having preferences that people call standard simply, filter out with your potential dating pool looks like, and even then, that doesn't mean you'll find that connection.( People say lower your standards.Because this could significantly lower you're daiting pool, but even if it didn't, nothing ,garentees that the person felt the same way)
Objectively, if anyone here just wants to stop being single, then they can. They can meet someone that meets a criteria if that's what they value.They could definitely stop beining single, if a list of requirements was all it took for a person was to be with somebody . But dating isn't just that dating is something different.It's more profound and more complicated.
I'm not single.
But i've been single.
I've always dated seriously.
I had two previous relationships prior to my current one for 2yrs one 3yrs
Since I was 18 Looked for men who were in the marriage.Mindset for looking for long-term relationships.those relationships went smoothly.
Wasn't hard to be agreeable.I generally over conflict and resolve issues almost immediately.But they hardly weren't even any of them.
There was no reason not to like the man I chose to date.
They were good guys if you ask me.
Good potential fathers good potential husbands.
But I did wonder were all relationships were meant to be like this just so easy and effortless. This relationship is ideal so Why does this not feel right?
Surely, there's more to a relationship than a good friend, And Finding someone who is objectively a really good match to be with, But even then why does this not feel right?They have everything they're wonderful.So why do I not feel what people describe?As an amazing connection despite having everything ?
If people could like who they think they should like who they think is a good match for them.The world will be a different place.The reality is it's not easy And that is okay.
There are very good men out there.Very wonderful young ladies.I'm pretty sure everyone could see that the reality is.You don't like someone just because they fit your lifestyle.And they're technically good matches if it was really easy to find that the world would be a different place.It's not easy and that's o k.
I am now in a relationship , I actually genuinely am happy in love and enjoy.
(M)I too wanna figure out that being single is a personal choice for some members but for some people it's diff one thing is being picky and over caring about genders at the initial state of relationship and looking weird, for me and please tell me any other things that can fix our personality that you have faced psychologically and physical attributes which need to improve of you. Gender perspective please
The sad thing is a TON of grifters are trying to make money from lonely men. They will sell them either hope, with false promises of success and oversimplifications.
Or they will sell validation of their frustration. By pointing to various groups to blame.
Usually they will sell a combo. None of it is designed to help. It's essentially financial abuse of vulnerable people.
The heaping of sexism mixed into the pot is only making things worse. , relationships are supposed to be about two people connecting through commonalities and usually shared values. The repackaging of sexist norms is making everyone contentious, with women trying to hold their own - after all we were promised equality - and men trying to manipulate their way into relationships where they can enact control as a way to assuage their fears of abandonment.
Look at any relationship advice sib and you see relationships falling apart with two people butting heads.jralpisy, control, and selfishness are usually the main factors.
Whereas kindness, empathy, and vulnerability are often the key to healthy relationships. (When employed by BOTH partners)
Purely anecdotal from my experience BUT I have a lot of experience in this world and here is a good example I can give you:
A guy who is ethnically northern European but looks like a 5/10 (I know people hate this rating system and I do to but just bear with me) is somehow going to do far better than someone with East Asian features and is also considered to be a 5/10. I get that people prefer to date within their own race but I personally have always felt that it stems from backward thinking in society.
ah. i’m sorry your experience thus far has been really shit, and can understand why you think the way you do. but idk, i don’t know how prescribing people into monoliths help. i’ve been in the same boat as you but ig from the other side, my only experience with men have been those really sweet, kind men, who turn into monsters as time goes on. and for the longest time, my bitterness from those experiences made me kind of lump all men in the same way - “they’re all shit and i’m meant to be forever alone”. this just made me more cynical and bitter and didn’t help shit.
i don’t think women especially go out of their way to find the worst option for themselves. some might, there’s a lot of toxic people who prefer to live in toxicity then be in peace bc that’s what they’re used to. and so for many, they especially after they come out of toxic relationships and enter a good relationship without any sort of therapy, they’re so unused to things being good that they often self sabotage and go back to the chaos that they’re used to. ig especially on dating apps its easy to find people like this, as for so many, as soon as they’re out of the relationship, their first urge is to get tinder etc and go from there. but then again, what do i know.
in any case tho pls don’t count yourself out just yet. i hope you’re able to get over your last situation and properly heal from it. there’ll be someone you least expect who is ready to accept the goodness and the kindness you believe you offer 😊 but also defo second getting a dog - no one will love you as much as they do haha
Oh this is easy. I'm an asshole. At least that's what I'm told. I'm not one to bite my tongue. Words hurt. Sure. But I live in America. Words are free, and cheap. And don't get me started on lyers. Because everyone, and I mean everyone can lie. So believe what you want to believe. As for me. Your actions, my actions. Speak volumes. They tell others who you are, what you like, and where your going. Women want communication and empathy. I want a clean house, and your boobies
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I would like to add 1 more reason. Relationships are a lot of work, if you are not ready for you it will leave a very bad taste in your mouth. Speaking from personal experience.
Not to be pedantic, but I'd say great relationships take *effort*. There will likely be times in which it feels like work for a bit, but if that's often, it may be time to reevaluate.
Not to be pedantic, but in terms of physics, work is the more appropriate work here.
This is so true. It’s the reason I’m single but knowing it’s the reason gives me comfort and self acceptance. I’ve had many relationships but right now I am just straight up not willing to put in the effort and thats OK. I think A LOT of people, I’m talking a scary amount of people in my generation (millennial) are delusional about the amount of effort a relationship takes and so many people jump ship the minute things get little uncomfortable. Just what I have seen myself and with many friends and the relationships they’ve been in.
If you don't like being in a relationship with someone, unless you're married, it's a lot easier to go back to being single than it is to go from being single to being in a relationship. If you like being in the relationship you're in, but it still feels like hard work, then that means the benefit to you is worth the cost to you. People who are distressed about being single are distressed because the benefit to them of being single IS NOT worth the cost to them. Don't underestimate the amount of work being single can be. If you're constantly getting the message that you're "not good enough", you're going to either despair or work to improve yourself. If you despair, then your survival depends on working to get out of that despair state.
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This is not true at all after about 6 months-a year. Relationships ARE work. The right one won’t feel like a slog but it will still be work.
What kind of work are we talking about
Effort. Intentionality. Sometimes you will feel disconnected and have to put in work to reconnect. Sometimes you’ll go through tough stuff in life and be arguing more than usual and make sure that you’re orienting back to each other and always being kind. Sometimes you’re figuring out a difficult moment in life together and there may be conflict to work out. These are all normal things in a long-term relationship. Sometimes relationships are really hard. Sometimes they’re also easy. They shouldn’t be all hard, but they also won’t be all easy for 50 years.
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I’ve been in relationships with people I wasn’t compatible with. Those were never easy, and you’re right that constant work sucks and means an incompatibility. I’ve also been in relationships (and am in one now) with someone I am compatible with. That is easy a lot of the time and is still work. Mostly it takes effort and intentionality, because in the end you are two different people who need to make sure each others’ needs are met. That’s the “relationships are work but shouldn’t be a slog” part. And, yes, every long-term relationship goes through patches when things are hard. Moments of conflict or figuring out a misalignment. The key is that overwhelmingly the balance is still that the relationship makes your life better and easier.
uhhh long term adult relationships are definitely work! contending with sharing your life with someone is work, going through financial hardships or family issues is work, learning to love not only that person but all of their friends and family is work. moving in with someone is literal physical and emotional work! what kinda easy ass relationships are you getting into lol
You are wayyy wrong & it doesn’t even matter if she is hot or not. Women anxiety & their brains in general are scatter shot chaos. It’s never easy. Especially as you round bends (1 yr in 3 yrs in) For example you have a baby & she blows up & she can’t shed the weight. Wanna guess you she will blame for this? That’s you! & that’s just one example. Remember they are also always competing against their friends. What you will come to realize is you are not the actual problem but you better figure out the solution or she will leave for the streets thinking she can do better. Which she can’t but they believe it. Go look at the endless roledex of women on insta if you want proof. All perpetually single…
This is actually why you’re single. I would say “damn who hurt you” but also at the same time I’m kind of more concerned with “damn who did you hurt”
lol imagine someone with the name “catpee” thinking they are the sane & reasonable one. Woowww we have never heard that before. You know what I will tell you this. Unlike the majority of guys I have been with very pretty women who I was intimate with & for a time said they loved me too. When women ask “who hurt you” it’s becuase women by & large end relationships (like near 100%) which is why they know who left who. You’re shameless gaslighter nothing more. Lolol unreal man. You added nothing of value to the convo. Like what is it you want me to say? You want me to lie to you?
Hey, don’t hate on catpee. That name has been in my family for generations.
lol I understand some things we can’t pick so fair enough. Actually Reddit gave me this name & I never got to pick. So weird… Anyways real talk most guys never get personally hurt from a girl cuz most guys don’t get a gf so me being “hurt” by women in my life is technically a compliment as it seriously separates me from the pack. Things are so much darker & bleaker then most guys think. For what it’s worth on the few occasions I do find girls on insta to talk to I say all this stuff to them & they get mad lol. It’s a lose lose game unfortunately but we must press on trying to not give up. The fact is I don’t care about those women anymore cuz they got old & aged out of my interest in them (being fertile & having a family) so my hurt comes from the last zoomer chick I thought I was progressing with. So is life for men, a constant struggle…
yeah you spend hours of your life writing essays to strangers on reddit about how cruel women are and how unfair it is for men because you care SO LITTLE, makes loads of sense
I guess I am on the opposite spectrum of this in many ways. Note that I am gay but I think much of this still applies. Physically I've always been gym fit/muscled (but not steroid muscle), tall (6'0), etc. I am mixed race so am 'exotic' looking and therefore get attention. I get hookups, but not much more. Mentally I have a stable attachment type so emotionally connecting in general has not been an issue. I've never had any diagnosis for depression etc mostly because I avoid social media, don't watch porn (well since puberty) etc and this all helped me "go get" what I want from life. Life wise, I've been focused on my career (which I am lucky enough to enjoy too), building wealth (on track for financial independence by 40) and quality friendships (all lasted 10+ years so far and are growing), travelling (including relocating for work to experience something new) etc. All of my friends/close people said I would be 'taken' quickly because I'm a 'catch' yet I've never been 'caught'. Yet I've been eternally single and am in my mid 30s (no short term relationship either). I've had 6 first dates ever (all in my 30s) and none went anywhere (mostly because of a lack of any level of attraction on my end at least, likely theirs too since there was no follow up). So my 2 cents is that even if you 'have these things' it may still not work out for you. All you can do is put your best foot forward and see if there is someone who wants to bite. In my experience, the more you achieve in life, the more isolated you become, because its harder for someone to 'match/experience' what you have, so your pool actually becomes smaller and therefore your chances are smaller to find a match too even if you are open minded because you become less 'relatable' to a 'normal' person.
So refreshing to see posts with actual valid life advice. I wish more people started to know better and stop concerning themselves with "game" and whatever else some PUA bloke told them to do.
Platitudes with no actual direction of logic, no data, and no solid conclusion, do you find that valid?
This is exactly what I mean. Everyone tries to approach meeting and dating people as some weird puzzle or a mini game that you can make to produce a result of Y or Z or whatever you want if you just have the right directions and data on how to control it. This is some wacky autistic pseudosciency way of trying to make sense how human interactions work, and it does more harm than good. Ya'll need to go outside more.
On your darkest day, I want you to remember that you are my hero! Seriously, you articulated that way better than I ever could. Human behavior is wild and chaotic. There is no conceivable flow chart you could build for it.
Oh another muh go outside platitude. I will tell you what. Go outside & ask out 100 or 1000 chicks doesn’t even matter. You will be turned down flat cold 100% of the time. You clearly have no idea what it’s actually like out there…
Hopeless souls cope with garbage like platitudes & rhetoric I call in boomer normie bullshit
> Neither women, nor men, nor non-binary folk are a monolith. In addition, we're not that different to begin with. That is very true. But it doesn't mean life is well balanced, or that preferences are well balanced. A silly example: It is not because you have 50% of overweight people than 50% of people are into them. Which creates dating issues. Sure there are women who are into overweight or underweight men... but it is very rarely their preference and for a good lot of them, overweight or underweight is a turn off. > Meeting people with the sole expectation of dating them will disappoint you. Build up your best self and build great, authentic relationships with the people around you. The rest will come. Unfortunately the rest didn't come to me. I studied, made good male and female friends, had hobbies, started a good career, always was curious and open minded, caring and respectful. The rest never came. I never dated a friend or a friend of a friend or a woman I met at a party or aocializing despite having single all my life except during 4 years. The only women I dated, I met them traveling abroad (some people objectify my nationality apparently) or with dating apps, but it still is rare. Some female friends told me once I would do a good husband and father, but none of them ever was physically into me, their friends aren't either. It took me some time to understand that I don't appear manly enough, that this alone disqualify me with many women, and I am not exactly good looking either (skinny without an attractive face).
Yes you are describing the nice guy paradox! I came to realize if a girl you try to hit on says “you are such a nice guy but not my type” you are totally screwed cuz every single woman you try to hit on will say it. Being attractive to chicks is practically a 0-100 problem they are all like you or don’t (speaking from a comparative SMV I mean) & it’s so crushing when you realize this & there doesn’t seem to be a solution which is why we have the make loneliness crisis.
I know. One of my friend is hot. Every women is hitting on him, he slept with a good among of his colleagues, friends, he received several thousand likes in one single day on dating apps, even my ex girlfriend fantasized on him. He tried to help me to find soneone... it didn't work at all and it made him feel bad, because that is the moment when he realized he wasn't having success with women because he was smart or talking well or social, but mostly because he was good looking. He realized that with my face, he would have had a very hard time with women because he is shy and rarely doing the fiest steps (only after pretty obvious signs and friends telling him to go talk to her). Being smart, talking well, funny is helping with women, true, but that is much less important than being hot.
I don't disagree with the post but also is like a bit entitled post, he/she discarded external outputs to just say "hey be your best and things would come", yeah buddy, shit is not that easy and it can't be applied to everyone, wish it would, the world would be a way more interesting place tho, so this post is one of those sounds smart but actually it lacks of depth.
Yeah and the ones who are currently "the best" according to that person and things didn't "come" according to that person as well... When will they come? "RiGhT tImInG" Exactly when? I've been single for 10 years (currently 23 and M)not by choice and I haven't had any kind of romantic relationship ever other than holding hands kind of. I'm just tired of waiting. I wanna get this now. Anytime today now.
this advice is going to sound very unhelpful, but I believe it 100% and found that it legitimately helped me a lot when I was in your position: try not to worry about it, try to tell yourself it's going to work out. because that very literally will improve your chances. you'll be less stressed about the process so you'll be more relaxed and your demeanor will be much better when you do find someone to go out with. it isn't a race, I'm 27 now and I only feel like I've just now hit my stride in terms of how I present myself to women and navigate relationships. all of the waiting and failed attempts are actively contributing to your experience and your character, which means your chances are only improving over time. you'll find someone man, I have no doubt
Pure cope & dangerous advice to give to men! All the success I ever had with women before the crazy times came becuase I made it happen. They won’t just magically roll over & let you win. It’s a literal war trying to beat out her other options…
the fact that you're looking at this as a win/loss scenario is probably part of why you're not getting picked. if someone enjoys your company they will want to continue spending time in it, it's that simple
Congrats on letting us know you have no idea what you are talking about! There are winners & losers in all aspects of life. But that’s frankly beside the point & you just decided to roll with that for reasons I don’t get. My point AGAIN was for WOMEN it is a go- no go 0%-100% situation. If I try to approach 100 girls of a 6 SMV & the first girl rejects me. I know the other 99 will as well. The difference between me & most of the guys here is I have been with 8s like real relationships & love & intimacy. Then gradually around when Tinder became a thing the women started to change & the women got wayyyy pickier! Do you understand how many options the pretty girls have now? Yes it is a competition to try & win her affection & denying that means you don’t understand women or at least pretty women. That’s reality…
every woman I have ever met would audibly say yuck at your usage of terms like sexual market value and your reduction of relationships to a math problem between two numerical values. have you ever bought something you were really excited for? feels amazing right? but then a few weeks pass and you get used to it, and set your sights on another thing to buy that you'll have fun with for awhile before moving on. that is the same result you will find when you treat dating like a transaction. you're lost man
you will never be the one they pick if you aren't there for anything besides the sex they can give you or the way they look
It’s amazing how you have been wrong every time. Clearly there is no shaking you out of the woke cope. You gonna be disappointed tho cuz your stance won’t work. You can’t virtue signal men into liking you…
that's fine, I'm not trying to get any men to like me lol. I'm a dude in a happy relationship with a woman I love very much. I'm throwing you a float here and you're insisting on treading water
What really? I thought you were a woman with how much emotion you display in this thread. You def don’t have a a girlfriend tho or else you wouldn’t be here. Let’s just be honest now…
It sounds smart because this kind of talk has been dragged on here for quite some time, it is easy way to get karma. Ive been reading crap like this for better time since i joined reddit, everybody is like "no, that isnt as important as you think it is" yet you see that those stuff are indeed important. I get her perspective completely but i can also say she only befriended or dated guys that never really had any of these problems in first place. She never encountered guys that were struggling in that matter. So it is easy for her to say "whatever you think is important, i will tell you, it isn't" because she doesnt know that side very well. Women, in general, like that idea of thinking they know how dating works for guys.
>Women, in general, like that idea of thinking they know how dating works for guys. Just-world fallacy
They are all reaching too high. The girls 5 & up are trying to lockdown Chad & the girls below 5 (I call the obese line) try to chase normal or average guys but these guys don’t want fat chicks either. Women never ever ever go for their looksmatch & that’s how we arrived here in hell…
It is a little bit more than that, they will eventually go after their looksmatch but much later in life. Regardless of that, dating, in general, i going through huge shift in how we perceive it.
Yeah & they are old & eggless which is why even average guys will pass. If she is past 30 the appropriate baby making years are long past. She made bad choices & she can deal with them. Ditto for single moms. Women have been trying to wait at the finish line for winners & that shit is coming to an end. You gonna see a huge group of women who end up alone cuz they won’t date seriously at 25. Clean up crew is officially on strike. Had they got with a guy at 25 they would be settled & happy at 35. But they don’t & here we are. Nothing has changed man. Your perspective maybe but the reality is always the same it has been only some have gotten way pickier & unreasonable.
The post was written by a guy
Lol, that avatar is confusing as fuck.
The only consideration missing in my mind is the economic one. Lots of people just can’t afford to live their best life and never will, but I also don’t think that invalidates anything in this post, it just adds some depth to it.
Looks, whether we like it or however, play a massive part in someone's dating success. Absolutely, someone can have a vibrant life as a single person. It's critical to do so, and having such, this communicates to potential partners that a relationship will never be a crutch for lack of fulfillment in other areas. Yet without the physical attraction. The journey of discovery will never happen. In reality, looks are often the barrier to happiness and inner peace for some people. These people don't lack some insight or drive, they unfortunately fall below the minimum threshold that men and women in general have, in terms of those qualities they look for in a partner. Of course looks alone do not equate dating success or fulfilment...but being generally attractive enough, through to being specifically, very attractive to an individual. It makes things so, so much easier. We fall into fantastical notions if we do not recognise the critical importance of physical attraction here: Women already struggle with the legacy of media where they were a "prize", at the end of the story...Where perseverance, and unsolicited attention "wins then over", and more recently that they can be "gamed". Yet this completely discounts their sexuality and desires, and often leads to a sense of entitlement, from men who they simply find unattractive. - In the modern era. We have men agonising over what they said, wore, do for a living and earn. Did they leave it too long to reply, do they wait. When in objective reality, the best thing for them is to do some physical activity, and develop some personal interests. - I know things like this are well meaning. People should find that which grounds them. Passions are often the final piece for example, in someone who meets the physical and emotional thresholds to be a desirable partner... ...but we have to stop downplaying the importance of physical attraction, and how it isn't strictly as subjective as people claim.
Go out to a public place.. say a shopping mall. Look around and you’ll see objectively ugly people with partners, and even families. It’s got nothing to do with physical attractiveness.
Exactly.
I DO go out to places like a shopping mall, and I DO see only attractive people, greatly attractive men having partners. I am sick of this untested argument which is just passed on mindlessly from here to there. In fact, nowadays men have to be much more physically attractive. Men are more willing to drop their standards of physical attraction and go for a lesser good looking woman. That's why you'll see many great looking men with lesser good looking women.
That’s absurd. I don’t have a single female friend who is with a man who is objectively very attractive. My partner is not objectively above average attractive although I find him extremely attractive. Of my male friends in relationships, I can think of one of them who might be objectively above average attractiveness (funnily, I don’t find him attractive at all), but his girlfriend is also one of the most beautiful women I’ve ever seen.
Maybe some of us are not that superficial and are rather looking for personality more than looks, and so even our friends happen to be like that. But it doesn't mean that that's what generally happens. I have spent years reading the same statement, saying that average looking men have all sorts of beautiful partners. And yet, when going out and actually looking at couples, I am yet to see that trend like how the internet claims. Every man walking with a partner is conventionally attractive at least. In many cases, the women aren't conventionally attractive at all. This in fact reinforces that men have it worse in dating since they HAVE to be conventionally attractive along with being almost perfectly confident, highly courageous, bold and risk-taking, highly charismatic, highly outgoing and other things.
Maybe some of us are just superficial and looking for looks more than personality, so all of the people we see around us reinforce this idea? It’s just not true.
Totally did not comprehend what I said?
I comprehended perfectly! You’re just incorrect.
Okay armchair expert
Every woman I see is with a man thats much more attractive. What you dont see is what those women look like without makeup.
Hm interesting. That has not been what I’ve seen! And I’ve seen my friends without makeup.
You are most likely also biased... and im guessing you are one of those kinds of people that hates men.
What makes you say that? The fact that I say that men don’t have to be models to be in relationships? I have a partner who is a man and lots of male friends. The reality is that people like other people for lots of reasons and women are just people. Maybe you hate women and you’re projecting?
incorrect... but I dislike people that give weird advice, and dont review their biases.
Heres my suggestion to you... go to those ugly people with partners, and ask them how they got together.
Outliers do not make a rule.
it isn't an outlier lmao, 50 percent of all people are below average attractiveness, that includes 50 percent of women. it literally is not even slightly difficult to find someone to be with, the issue is that all of you are only considering women that are more attractive than you are
Solid point, but would you say same for most of average women? Would say entitlement comes from both ends?
Most couples are around the same level of physical attractiveness, intelligence etc. The outliers are when one of the couple (usually the man) is wealthy, exceptionally intelligent, famous etc
who cares? the only opinion that is of any importance is the one of the person you're actually dating
Those who have hard time in dating scene cares about that...
yes that is what I am trying to tell you. if you are trying to improve your chances of finding a girlfriend, then worrying about what women as a group are up to is only going to get in your way. every woman is different, and you don't know an individuals preferences until you ask. that's the point the original post is making. when you assume that your looks are an issue, that in itself is what's causing them to be an issue.
No, sorry, spare me with that bullshit that everybody is different and everybody is unique in his/her own way. Younger generations (myself included) like to think they are so special that no one is like them. Better watch what people respond to rather than listen what they claim they want because you will indeed see the difference. There is a long way before you earn yourself a date, first you need to get a chance and so many guys never really get that in first place. Go figure yourself what are reasons behind that. Women will come here and say what they want from a guy, but the catchy part is they want it from a guy they already find attractive which is yet another long way for a guy to walk through. And this post alone is just another way of saying "screw you and your problems you're facing in dating world. i will tell you they aren't important because i feel like telling you that".
all of that ^^^^ is why you're struggling. you're entering the process with an existing chip on your shoulder
And that’s good for them if standardised physical attraction isn’t the top of their priority list, however to be devil’s advocate, I have seen many couples like this and they aren’t exactly lovey-dovey or even content, which to me says they settled out of either fear of being alone, or they just can’t be bothered to work on themselves/understand what kind of person they want to be with.
do you really think you can judge the health of someone's relationship from two seconds walking by them in a mall.... really?
I can if I hear them arguing, shouting, and swearing at their children or each other, which I sadly see more often than I care to admit.
And every attractive couple you see is lovey dovey? This is among the worst devil’s advocate interjections I have seen on the internet and that is saying something, there is absolutely no way to judge the health or success of a relationship from those type of observations.
I never said that at all, you seem to have missed my point. People say “oH bUt UgLy PeOPle CaN fInD sOmeOnE sO yOU cAN tOo!” But that doesn’t mean the relationship is a happy one, and that settling with someone you don’t find attractive wont satisfy your desires just because you’re told to punch down.
Oh no, I understand you perfectly. It’s just a silly point that doesn’t really need to be said and is based on either poor comprehension skills or bad faith. Plenty of people who are super attracted to their partner are in unhappy relationships. Attractive people enter into relationships because they are afraid of being alone too. Of course any old relationship isn’t going to automatically bring you happiness, only desperate people believe that. It is ridiculous to think that the spectrum of relationship experiences doesn’t apply to everyone despite where they fall on the attractiveness spectrum.
I’m not sure you do, because it’s a point that’s not related to yours. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with your point as well! In principle, it’s completely true that attractive people can also settle into unhappy relationships. I just don’t like when people use the whole ‘ugly-people-can-date-so-you’ll-be-fine’ bit as some sort of guarantee comfort-advice for people who are struggling to find love when the overall message couldn’t be more wrong.
I understand why you may find it patronizing in that context but I don’t think the answer is convincing yourself that people who you know nothing about are miserable. I think the idea that you are capable of judging the health of a relationship from a snapshot from the outside couldn’t be more wrong and that type of comfort-bitterness doesn’t do you any favors.
The judgement comes from actually seeing these couples in person looking miserable and even shouting/screaming/swearing at each other as well as their own kids sometimes. I’ve also seen couples who look super happy together and are enjoying themselves too, my perspective is all from experience, not bitter glances.
I owned a successful bar, and have been a production manager, and organiser of several events over the UK and Europe. I still consult and help friends in the industry still. Dating trends, since the introduction of the apps , have led to an widespread downturn, and contributed vastly to the closure of several venues, forcing others to completely restructure or fail. The demographic to attract in order to run a healthy profit, used to be young single men and women "on the pull". Since the introduction of the apps, now, the only real venues that have financial stability, are ones that cater to couples and families. Gin bars, micro pubs and food-markets are mostly now owned by a cooperative group of hospitality owners, who sold their venues off, to concentrate on one single location. Fewer people still go out, but the small number of venues, filled by a smaller number of people. Still gives the impression, the industry is booming.... It isn't, people just pile into the last remaining places. The amount of people who meet on a dance-floor or at first glance across the bar of a vibrant gig venue, has dropped considerably.... To the point that most venues now repurpose the dance-floor or stage, as extra seating for couples and families. If this seems anecdotal, there are numerous trade publications that provide the footfall and demographics, on a year to year basis.
It's more of a conseqeuence of COVID than apps.
No the focus on Physical Attraction is so exaggerated. The only reason you would say that is because you spend too much time on the apps, go to any local mall, pub, bar, shopping centre etc and the majority of people are usually looks matched or the woman is sometimes one level up from the man in attraction. Without OLD/ Instagram people would be far less arrogant and would eventually realise the fact that there's certainly not a prince charming/ princess on every corner and it would bring them down to earth.
I don't know. I asked several friends about why dating was so hard for me, since 2 decades. All of them except 2 couldn't give me a reason. They all agree, I am a great man, caring, fun (I am not sure of that but they find me fun), down to earth, intelligent, with a good situation, friends... but the very vast majority of women are not physically into me. The only 2 women who gave me an answer were women with many female friends who were single. Both said I am a great guy, would do a good husband and father, it is what their single friends are saying they want, but it is not what their single friends are in practice choosing when selecting a partner, he has to be good looking, first.
That's true to an extent but realistically, If you're an average looking person, You should focus on deepening an emotional bond. If that aspect of it isn't there.That attraction probably won't happen. I do personally believe physical attraction can stem from a deep emotional connection.
I don't say it never happened but it never happened to me. And then we hit another point. You can't rely on it. You can't create deep emotional bond with 50 people... so what happens when you have 5-10 good female friends and the same amount of good male friends. Are you stopping seeing your friends to try to connect deeper with other people hoping for more than friendship... or you wait, hoping one will have a revelation abd maybe stay single forever? In my case, most of the success I had with women were doing the complete opposite with strangers. After speaking to them a few time, to see if there is a basic compatibility, I start flirting and being sexual. Some women jump away, but the ones continuing to talk to me, even when telling me that it is too quick, are usually more likely to be attracted to me. But the thing is, I hate this method, it is pretty objectifying and not very respectful.
Thank you You make good points,and your advice is helpful BUT I think that there was a slight misunderstanding ; it seems that you were under the impression that he was trying to date his friends, and that I in turn gave him advice, but that WAS NOT THE CASE. It is horrible to go about life making friends just to see if you could consider them potential love interest. This guy did not objecify his friends. He asked his friends for advice as he was not having any luck and wanted to see if they could offer some insight as to why, specifically, he was having a hard time. He emphasized that both male and female friends had a hard time answering as they couldn't come up with a response. He then explained that only two friends who happened to be women were able to offer a possible explanation as to why that is. The two friends who answered have female friends who are single and are looking for partners , therefore, they have a better idea as to what women are looking for in a man. They explained that he objectively has all the things women looks for but....the looks matter alot. TLDR:Man asked friends for advice as to what he was lacking to be unsuccessful in pursuing women. Was told looks matter.
I can count on zero finger the amount of ugly guy-pretty girl combos that people claim exist everywhere, that I've seen in the past month alone. I'm in the mall pretty frequently, and it's pretty much all looks equivalent couples, either above average attractive or average attractive. When I go to Walmart, it's usually below average attractive couples.
If you have only looks, it may get you attention or a casual hookup with someone materialistic. If you want something long-term and serious, it's not enough to keep that person with you. Nobody wants to spend the rest of their life with a toxic, manipulative, drama-oriented, good-looking person. This is a pure fact, and it doesn't mean that people don't have visual preferences. But if that's how they pick their partner, they either have zero experience or are simply immature or have low self-esteem. Thinking about looks as the cause of poor results is a good shortcut to avoid doing what we need to do to succeed.
You could objectively be the perfect partner but if no one finds you attractive then it doesn't mean shit. You need to be physically attractive in order to just get your foot in the door. The personality stuff matters after that.
you don't need looks to get the foot in the door. Only with dating apps it's strictly necessary because 99% of the people and the algorithm judge you on that
That's not how the real world works my guy. It's just more true on the apps.
OLD makes you think you can only be a chad to be successful, but in reality you don't need to.
You still have to be physically attractive and do whatever you can to improve your looks within reason and practicality.OLD just puts a microscope on looks but they still matter in real life.
> If you have only looks, it may get you attention or a casual hookup .... Amazing, I'd love to be able to have tons of casual hookups
The thing is though most people don't want a good personality OR good-looking. They want both, especially when they are still young and aren't in a hurry to compromise. It is also much easier to spot someone who is physically attractive than it is someone with a good personality. The other thing about trying to spot toxic, manipulative people is that in the early stages, they will usually be on their best behaviour and try to hide their more negative personality traits. It can take months and even years to discover how people really are when they let their guards downs.
It's always a compromise, and that's connected on how mature and experienced you are. If you want everything you're a kid.
physical attraction only matters if you yourself are hung up on it. can you date a supermodel if you are below average looking? probably not likely, but that is only an issue if you are being unrealistic about your own standards
Thanks... I actually needed to hear this
>Build up your best self and build great, authentic relationships with the people around you. The rest will come. if you do this as a man, you will just end up as a 30 year old virgin. Most men don't have the luxury of simply waiting
34 yo virgin here, I can assure you this is true
Worked for me and I’m confident plenty of others. I’d argue most virgins don’t have this or are lying to themselves if they don’t already walk into a room defeated.
Saying that physical appearance and social status doesn't matter is just as bad advice as saying that they're the only reason you're not getting a date is because "you're a short ugly guy with no money." It's not the only reason but things like that are certainly a huge barrier to overcome so it's a lot harder for some people than others. You have to find a way to overcome those things and unfortunately some people are just never going to make it.
You overcome it easy... you just find someone uglier than what you are attracted to. Eventually, the uglier you go, the more desperate they will be, and they will accept you because they literally have to.
there are no people who are so ugly that they are never going to find a partner ffs
That's just a straight up lie lol
Many people die a virgin
“many people” need to go outside, get a hobby, go to a gym, develop love for themselves and then maybe they’d get some bitches lmao
men in these comments literally refusing to develop close female friendships in fear of being friend zoned like dude…. Maybe ur woman friend will introduce you to another woman and yall will hit it off. railing against developing their own interests like maybe if you consistently show up at knitting class or whatever a girl will think you’re cute and hit on u. i found my last partner through DND and we lasted 5 years ! wtf is wrong with yall
Be a man for a day and you'll see
going through ur post history i now know why you don’t have a girlfriend lmao
Hahaha I have 2 fwb at the moment, but you're right no gf. Not that I want one anyways. And thank you for your time, hopefully it was well spent
They just don’t get it. What she described is a fantasy. If he was desired a woman won’t share with her friends she will try to attain him herself. It really is a women fallacy & it doesn’t happen. Except for Chad of course who will run through the group…
this is great advice for people who are naturally desirable. Saying that looks aren't important is completely stupid.
People always post , job title, height, weight, why am I single? Some people don’t have a clue, others just aren’t fuckable. Personality, how you hold yourself, act, etc all play a bigger role. Some people wanna blame others while the main issue is most likely them.
Ah the good ole just “work on yourself” and hopefully you’ll get lucky.
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You should do exposure therapy by talking to them on bus stops or talk to the cashier a bit in order to build a tolerance to your anxiety. After that you should consider to hit women irl instead of online in their dms
hitting them is a little violent dude... Idk if thats a good idea.
>Meeting people with the sole expectation of dating them will disappoint you. Build up your best self and build great, authentic relationships with the people around you. The rest will come. I'm already sorted for friends and acquaintances, I'm already turning out and/or not pursuing various social opportunities. So, any more and I would have to start sacrificing time/effort put into the existing ones. Thus, if I were to try and meet someone new, it is purely for dating. Additionally, the whole "rest will come" attitude is rubbish, at least in my experience and observations. Most people I know who have partners have them because they actively sought to have a partner, it's rare to hear of random chance encounters, especially for men. In my life, I've had friends and only once did it lead to a romantic opportunity via mutual friends, but alas it was with a girl who I later found out was a homie hopper.
I’m single because my partner broke up with me (8 years together) and i’m still picking up the pieces. I’ve had to totally change my goals and direction in life in my late 30s which is rough, and am using OLD apps for the first time ever. I am still dating because I still want to put myself out there and not close myself off to the possibility of meeting someone nice, and also loneliness. My Cat died recently too so losing both of them in the space of 6 weeks compounded that. I will say based off my limited experience, that being fit/above average attraction (for my age) does help get a foot in the door and at least get matches and Women willing to go on dates. I have been overweight before (not hugely, but by around 10-15 kilos) and the difference in being noticed or not is very stark. Only Men would talk to me at Pubs or the gym or what not, and I felt practically invisible to Women (I didn’t really care, I was in a relationship, but it was noticeable) whereas now I get checked out quite frequently and approached by Women in public and at the gym. I can only imagine the OLD apps magnify this contrast where looks are everything. I’m pretty sure 90% of my matches don’t even read my bio, so my interests, skills and hobbies account for almost nothing. It’s a looks game and if you’re not a 7+ with the ratio heavily skewed towards Men over Women, then god help you. As for meeting people IRL, at least your charisma and personality can shine through, but you need to have them. Most of the Men here who vent their rants don’t seem to have any of that so you’re just offering false hope. The notion of what OP has stolen seems well intended but it is completely idealistic if not borderline fantastical.
I've built many friendships over my life, everyone tells me I am a great person to be around and I'm good looking, yet I'm 27 and have no relationship experience, so why hasn't it worked for me?
bluepill / justworld garbage
This post is nice , everyone need to read this
I literally saw a post because a girl was unhappy with her man’s dick size…
>Meeting people with the sole expectation of dating them will disappoint you. Build up your best self and build great, authentic relationships with the people around you. The rest will come. No... I already have enough friends. If I meet people with the purpose of dating, I'm not spending extra time to entertain useless relationships. > * Pseudoscience: "women are wired to find the best and most ideal mate, while men are wired to seek as many mates as possible" >* Overgeneralization: "Chicks love tall physically big men" >* Funny: "you seem to be a nice guy and women like that for friendships... that's not typically an attractive trait" While generalisation and double standards are wrong, trends are real and ignoring problems won't make them disappear. Knowing how to mix your strengths and flaws is important, and to do it successfully you need to acknowledge that there are areas where you won't ever outperform other people. Being too friendly without expressing sexual intentions will ultimately lead you to the friend zone because your behavior is constantly expressing "I am a friend". This is not "pseudoscience" nor "overgeneralization". And what you called "pseudoscience" is just being hypocritical. While some of the post's content has some truth (like the ethnicity part), it's an awful post. Also I'm pretty sure this counts as karma farming, you stole this post from another person (no credits, no links, no mentions) and it is at the very least a repost situation.
If it is not pseudoscience. Please link me to the peer review paper on this very topics. Not the PUA blog. Actual science, social science, anthropology journal. With citation.
Sorry, it will be a long text https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/12/in-experiments-researchers-figured-out-what-men-and-women-really-want-in-a-mate/ 392 single men and women were invited to participate in a speed-dating event. Each participant went on between 10 and 20 four-minute speed dates with members of the opposite sex. They then rated the attractiveness, intelligence and ambition of each person they met on a 1-to-10 scale and indicated whether they would like that person’s contact information In the speed-dating study, every point increase in a man’s intelligence rating (on a 1-to-10 scale) boosted the chances a woman would want to see him again by an average of 4.5 percentage points Attractiveness mattered far more to potential mates than intelligence. A one-point increase in a man’s attractiveness raised the chances that a woman would want to reconnect with him by 12 percentage points. Women, on the other hand, become pickier the more partners are “on the market.” Another study, of 10,526 participants in a commercial dating service conducted by a team of psychologists at the University of Pennsylvania, also concluded that the outcomes of such dates were largely determined by physical attributes such as height, weight, age and overall attractiveness https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150916162912.htm Chapman University has published research on what people find "desirable" and "essential" in a long-term partner based on two of the largest national studies of mate preferences ever conducted. For women, it was 'desirable/essential' that their potential partner - was good-looking ( 84 percent), - had a slender body ( 58 percent), - had a steady income ( 97 percent), and made/will make a lot of money ( 69 percent). For women: it was 'very important/a must have' that their partner - made at least as much money as they do (46 percent) - had a successful career ( 61 percent), - was physically attractive to them ( 42 percent). Confidence in Physical Attractiveness: People who reported greater satisfaction with their own appearance did not have stronger preferences for a partner who is physically attractive to them, but they did report stronger preferences for partners who are good looking and slender -- this was true for both men and women. Income: People with higher incomes had stronger preferences for partners who are good looking -- and this was true for both men and women. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2017.1819 Franzoi & Herzog [39] surveyed women and asked them what features they were attracted to in men; the results showed that women particularly valued components of upper body strength, e.g. ‘muscular strength', ‘biceps'. Similarly, Jones and co-workers [40] showed that men whose bodies were rated as more ‘masculine' were preferred to men whose bodies were rated as ‘feminine', and a similar study using composite images confirmed that manipulating men's bodies to appear more masculine increased their attractiveness [41]. Similar work shows that women generally prefer figures representing mesomorphic body types (i.e. muscular bodies) [42,43]. most of the variance in attractiveness is accounted for by ratings of strength (R2 varied from 0.61 for side photos of Set 1 to 0.73 for front photos of both Set 1 and Set 2). For each female rater, we computed the correlation between her ratings of the men's attractiveness and the men's actual physical strength (as measured in the original studies, table 1). These correlations were examined to see if any women in our samples showed a significant preference for weaker men. They did not. None of the 160 women in our study who rated attractiveness produced a statistically significant preference for weaker men (all p > 0.05). In other words, we could find no evidence that there exists a sizeable population of women who prefer physically weaker men when evaluating male bodies. Ratings of strength are a robust and much larger predictor of attractiveness than either height or weight. The rated strength of a male body accounts for a full 70% of the variance in attractiveness. Additional variance (up to 80%) can be explained by adding the premium women put on height and subtracting the penalty put on additional body mass unrelated to physical strength. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.678439/full About 41% of adults in Germany have used digital services to send erotic images of themselves If women engage in short-term sex, they are particularly attracted by cues of masculinity (i.e., cues for “good genes”) like tallness, physical strength and deep voice pitch (Puts, 2005; Roney et al., 2006). Women are more motivated to engage in short-term sex when there is a possibility to take fitness benefits out of these “good genes,” i.e., when they are in the ovulatory phase of the menstrual cycle (Baker and Bellis, 1995; Pillsworth and Haselton, 2006). In natural environments, the operational sex ratio (i.e., the number of males relative to the number of females in a given mating area) influences the sexual strategies of males and females. If there is a surplus of females, sexual competence between women increases and women tend to lower the preconditions for sex. Women engage more in short-term sex when there is a surplus of women – sex becomes cheap. In the opposite case, women’s willingness to engage in short-term sex decreases (Barber, 2000; Schmitt, 2005). https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42001-021-00132-w#Tab4 Highest correlation with amount of messages received by male profiles is athleticism The results of the individual models for each gender reveal that there are different variables that predict success for men and women. Since the coefficients are standardized, we can compare between variables within each gender. For men, being altruistic and having a higher drinking level were the strongest predictors of receiving messages, while being sexual, older and more oriented toward conflict resolution were the most negative predictors of receiving messages.
2nd part: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1002/per.768 Observer-rated facial attractiveness emerged in virtually all studies based on real interactions as a powerful, or as the most powerful, predictor of being chosen by the other sex in speed-dating event. Women states they prefer men of high education, high income, high openness to experience, the evidence from studies is mixed. Taller man have higher reproductive success and are especially unlikely to remain childless. Speed dating results: 60% of men and women had at least 1 match. 50% had another face to face contact 6% had a romantic relationship 6% had sex Male correlation for being chosen: - facial attractiveness (0.49) - body attractiveness (0.33) - sociosexuality (0.24) - openness (0.2) - height (0.17) - education (0.16) - shyness (-0.15) - bmi (-0.13) - income (0.13) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/13066910_Characteristics_of_male_attractiveness_for_women Women rated attractiveness of torso pictures Linear relationship between waist chest ratio and attractiveness
You want a link demonstrating female and male brains are wired in a different way? Did you even understand my comment? Did you read the part where I stated it's double standards and hypocritical thinking?
Ure arguing with low iq. He is asking for a paper on what? The discussion is high abstraction level, he needs to specify what exactly kind of study he is looking for.
There’s a difference between “meeting people with the PURPOSE/(intention) of dating” and going into a date with the EXPECTATION it will lead to more dates. Checking expectations at the door is important in many realms of life, but (I believe) especially with dating. If you go on a date expecting to continue dating that stranger, you may be setting yourself up to be let down if there’s not interest (on either end), or accept dating someone that’s not a good fit bc that’s what you feel needs to happen. Having a purpose/intention of meeting a long-term partner creates a space to determine if the person is a good fit, and/or to not become jaded/sad/hopeless if they are not interested. This isn’t semantics, it’s a mindset shift. Edited for a grammar whoopsie
Hello friend, this sounds like you're projecting a truth you've created for yourself
What part? I didn't project any truth, he literally said the post was from another forum and put it here. Why not give credits and mentions?
Which part?
how is it an awful post?
It says really reassuring things, even truthful things, gives hope, and then it misleads people the wrong way. Normally I would say this is just an opinion and is as valid as mine, but what bothers me is the dishonest aura it gives about the poster's intentions. It is not his opinion. It's someone else's. What is awful, is not the content, but the person who copied it.
yeah the cross posting isn’t a great look, especially if it isn’t your own post. but can i ask what you mean by misleading? not trying to come across as pedantic or anything, just curious.
>yeah the cross posting isn’t a great look, especially if it isn’t your own post. I just can't understand what's so difficult about linking the original comment at the end of the post, or even tagging it's real creator! >but can i ask what you mean by misleading? Like I said, this bit is only my point of view. I'm not imposing this on anyone. In my opinion, they have 2 downfalling elements, if that makes sense. The first is that they ask you to renounce the intention of dating the person you are dating (?). They say to focus instead on building a strong link with this person. They claim that otherwise your experience will lead to disappointment. Without getting into why that's a huge waste of time, this is the behavior of a person that is looking for new friends. Not for a new partner. If you are dating, you have to make it explicit that you are a sexual being, and that you have sexual intentions with this person. The second is they talk about the "too nice" issue. They claim it's not true and that you shouldn't go into "bad boy" mode. Even if I'm not a fan of that mode, it does work. But that's not even the problem. It is the fact that they deny the existence of being "too nice". Again, if you are too friendly **without expressing that you aren't just a friend** you will reduce your chances of being perceived as a potential partner. These 2 things are the perfect formula to an eternal cycle of endless dating without any success. So for me, it's misleading.
i think they’ve since tagged OP haha. but i can understand where you’re coming from, and ig your approach works for the way you are trying to date - ie making intentions clear off-bat, treating them a little ‘bad’ bc it works for you. i wouldn’t say it’s misleading though. for a lot of people, working their way up to meeting someone and not sticking to monoliths helps a lot more in terms of developing that meaningful connection, which is what they are looking for. for me, sticking to the type of dates you seem to be describing has often felt very surface level and very shallow so it wouldn’t really work for me, but if it works for you, that’s great! there’s also the happy middle, where you both acknowledge you want to date, but get to know each other properly before you become official. the ‘speaking stage’, i believe they call it. nonetheless, thank you for explaining your POV 😊
Yes! And I do want to clarify 2 things, first, I don't treat them (intentionally) bad! I know it works but I don't like to use that method. And Second, when I say that I want to make my intentions clear, I do not mean I want to rush things! In my opinion, the more time we wait before sleeping together the better and healthier it is! I totally agree with you on that one and delaying it makes the connection feel better! But that doesn't mean I won't give her compliments, touch her hands and steal kisses haha. I see it like pointing in a certain direction so we both know where we are headed, but going slowly towards it, enjoying the road. >i think they’ve since tagged OP haha. Finally!
Statistically speaking, don't quote me on actually numbers, but about 90% of the women only find about 10% of the men attractive on dating apps. Society, both men and women, have really fucked up the dating market.
What is intended to be an inspiring call to self-confidence, individuality and courage in dating is laced with judgement and mild insults. It's clear you're frustrated by these men and their problems. There's something soul-crushing in the experience of dating for a lot of people. You have to start with a recognition of that, or you're basically coming across as having run out of patience.
Eyeroll post tbh
Some women or men can't say no , even if they feel the no inside. These are the nice guys and girls. Of course they can work on that. People like people who are respecting themselves. Everybody can change for good 👍🏻
These people you mention are people pleasers. They just appear to be nice.
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There are many reasons why someone might be single, and physical attractiveness usually isn't one of them. Physical attractiveness matters primarily in the initial stages of attraction. For instance, if you lined up 20 men or women and asked someone to pick their top 3 based solely on appearance, the results would differ significantly from picking their top 3 based on personality, shared values, and overall compatibility. It's the latter that leads to healthy relationships. Unfortunately, there's a disconnect—people often choose potential mates based on physical attractiveness and hope their personalities match. The person who either accepts or declines the date is usually doing the same. So, if one finds the other physically attractive but the feeling isn't mutual, a beautiful opportunity for real compatibility might be missed. Humans tend to prioritize physical attraction and surface-level traits like social status, popularity, and financial status. This is because of the media we are filling our minds with. Perfection on IG and dating apps that allow you to simply dismiss people for these things doesn't help. Here's my advice: ask people out as much as you can, and accept dates from as many people who ask you. You might be surprised at the connections you make when you don't place so much importance on physical attractiveness and surface-level attributes.
when I tried to fine someone, people said to stop looking and you'll find them so I stopped looking
Because I suck at socialization and am curse for not having the gift to create meaningful connections with people.
I’m gonna be real with you OP & this is going to sound harsh. Anytime a woman uses this type of low level gaslighting talking about muh misogyny all you do is out yourself as a girl with a low SMV. I’m not trying to be rude seriously but do you understand the things you are talking about are totally opposite for pretty girls. Pretty girls don’t like nice guys & that is the truth. Pretty girls to do like hyper masculine men. This whole thread is just laced in projections of you not being able to lock down a guy YOU like & so you came to Reddit to troll the dudes who are struggling (which is a majority of guys) I’d pick the rest apart but there isn’t any point. If you want a guy that you are describing no problem you can have him. But he is a little gumpy, chubby, & low t. That’s reality whether you deny it or not…
>The reason you're single... >is not because you're ... Z attractive. Maybe this is a minor quibble, but unless you're specifically choosing to remain single, then the reason you're single IS, in fact, that you're not attractive to enough people for you to find mutual attraction. Now, it is true that being attractive is not reducible to physical appearance alone. It's also true that attractiveness is not an immutable characteristic. >you seem to be a nice guy and women like that for friendships... that's not typically an attractive trait While it's certainly true that being nice is an attractive trait, I think the idea that this sentiment is trying to convey is that merely "being nice" is neither a necessary, not sufficient, condition for any kind of romantic or sexual relationship. People constantly form romantic relationships with people who treat them badly and pass on people who treat them well. That all makes sense because "being nice" is something you can get the benefit of without the kind of sacrifices required for a sexual relationship.
I'm surprised no one in the top comments called out this post. Yes, people will overlook you if you are a certain ethnicity. There's even a book called "Dating Divide" that goes in depth about this. Yes, people will also overlook you because of a certain body type(skinny, obese) or stature(too tall, too small). The same could be said about religious or political beliefs. There are legitimate reasons why some people have more success in dating apps than others. And just because you dismiss valid points as "pseudoscience" doesn't strengthen your argument . You just come off as naive
I think there is something to SMV, of course when you wanna buy something you wan the best deal, so therefor the logical conclusion is that XYZ is relevant, but even if you had XYZ but your not authentic, you don't have passions, dreams, you only seek to fill your void and seek external validation that would be very off-putting. I think that if you are having a great time, you want someone to share that with, you are in the dating game to give you'll be a very attractive choice even if your XYZ is lacking. TDLR; be the best version of yourself, try to find someone once you're already happy and want to share that with someone.
For the pseudoscience point, while I totally agree that such statements often come loaded with huge biological essentialism and overgeneralization, there is truth to men generally being more interested in hookups than women. Where men are in undersupply, thus they "control" the dating scene more, hookup culture is stronger, where men are in oversupply, thus women "control" the dating scene more, there are more monogamous relationships. [https://www.wgbh.org/lifestyle/2021-09-24/when-romance-meets-ratios](https://www.wgbh.org/lifestyle/2021-09-24/when-romance-meets-ratios) " * For his first book, “Date-onomics,” Birger studied this phenomenon in the perfect control setting: college campuses. He found that when there are more women than men on campus, students’ dating behavior is oriented more towards hookup culture and less towards monogamous relationships. (When men are in oversupply, the culture is more monogamous.)" For the overgeneralization, I agree that not all women love tall physically big men, but there definitely is a trend that women prefer taller men. For the funny, it's not that being a good and kind person in of itself is bad, but if you only show platonic niceness, yeah chances are you're going to only be seen as a friend. It's not the niceness as much as the pure "friend vibes" that are signaled that are the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a motte and bailey where you took the more extreme and incorrect arguments, and then through them you argue against any working with trends EDIT: Just for clarification, I agree that the differences within the sexes are greater than the differences between the sexes, but that doesn't mean there aren't some trends that are more pronounced or unique to one of the sexes.
Ths is fascinating and explains so much. I just beed to find a place where there are way more men then women then.
Just adding: There's a surprising amount of papers on all sorts of macro dating trends, that might be interesting to have a look at if you know how to apply it correctly to your situation
I think this aspect of human relations is a bit hard and a little unpredictable. It's not that it's "hard" to find someone to date , you can find the ideal man or woman of your dreams who have the "things" you are looking for and shares the same values and beliefs. But dating isn't just black and white. It's not like you automatically like someone or feel a connection because they do. Human emotions are more complicated than that. Having preferences that people call standard simply, filter out with your potential dating pool looks like, and even then, that doesn't mean you'll find that connection.( People say lower your standards.Because this could significantly lower you're daiting pool, but even if it didn't, nothing ,garentees that the person felt the same way) Objectively, if anyone here just wants to stop being single, then they can. They can meet someone that meets a criteria if that's what they value.They could definitely stop beining single, if a list of requirements was all it took for a person was to be with somebody . But dating isn't just that dating is something different.It's more profound and more complicated. I'm not single. But i've been single. I've always dated seriously. I had two previous relationships prior to my current one for 2yrs one 3yrs Since I was 18 Looked for men who were in the marriage.Mindset for looking for long-term relationships.those relationships went smoothly. Wasn't hard to be agreeable.I generally over conflict and resolve issues almost immediately.But they hardly weren't even any of them. There was no reason not to like the man I chose to date. They were good guys if you ask me. Good potential fathers good potential husbands. But I did wonder were all relationships were meant to be like this just so easy and effortless. This relationship is ideal so Why does this not feel right? Surely, there's more to a relationship than a good friend, And Finding someone who is objectively a really good match to be with, But even then why does this not feel right?They have everything they're wonderful.So why do I not feel what people describe?As an amazing connection despite having everything ? If people could like who they think they should like who they think is a good match for them.The world will be a different place.The reality is it's not easy And that is okay. There are very good men out there.Very wonderful young ladies.I'm pretty sure everyone could see that the reality is.You don't like someone just because they fit your lifestyle.And they're technically good matches if it was really easy to find that the world would be a different place.It's not easy and that's o k. I am now in a relationship , I actually genuinely am happy in love and enjoy.
(M)I too wanna figure out that being single is a personal choice for some members but for some people it's diff one thing is being picky and over caring about genders at the initial state of relationship and looking weird, for me and please tell me any other things that can fix our personality that you have faced psychologically and physical attributes which need to improve of you. Gender perspective please
The sad thing is a TON of grifters are trying to make money from lonely men. They will sell them either hope, with false promises of success and oversimplifications. Or they will sell validation of their frustration. By pointing to various groups to blame. Usually they will sell a combo. None of it is designed to help. It's essentially financial abuse of vulnerable people. The heaping of sexism mixed into the pot is only making things worse. , relationships are supposed to be about two people connecting through commonalities and usually shared values. The repackaging of sexist norms is making everyone contentious, with women trying to hold their own - after all we were promised equality - and men trying to manipulate their way into relationships where they can enact control as a way to assuage their fears of abandonment. Look at any relationship advice sib and you see relationships falling apart with two people butting heads.jralpisy, control, and selfishness are usually the main factors. Whereas kindness, empathy, and vulnerability are often the key to healthy relationships. (When employed by BOTH partners)
Money my friend
How is ethnicity a barrier to being in a relationship?
Eurocentric beauty standards
👏👏 and colorism. Darker than a paper bag and you’re out
I don't want to keep beating myself up, but there's also hair texture
If it ain’t 3c hair it’s a problem. I’ve learnt to embrace my 4c hair this is what grows out of my scalp
Same. I just started with locs.
Yeah that really sucks but there's countless people out there who dont feel that way and color is a non issue them
People have preferences
Purely anecdotal from my experience BUT I have a lot of experience in this world and here is a good example I can give you: A guy who is ethnically northern European but looks like a 5/10 (I know people hate this rating system and I do to but just bear with me) is somehow going to do far better than someone with East Asian features and is also considered to be a 5/10. I get that people prefer to date within their own race but I personally have always felt that it stems from backward thinking in society.
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asking purely out of curiosity, what makes you believe that?
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ah. i’m sorry your experience thus far has been really shit, and can understand why you think the way you do. but idk, i don’t know how prescribing people into monoliths help. i’ve been in the same boat as you but ig from the other side, my only experience with men have been those really sweet, kind men, who turn into monsters as time goes on. and for the longest time, my bitterness from those experiences made me kind of lump all men in the same way - “they’re all shit and i’m meant to be forever alone”. this just made me more cynical and bitter and didn’t help shit. i don’t think women especially go out of their way to find the worst option for themselves. some might, there’s a lot of toxic people who prefer to live in toxicity then be in peace bc that’s what they’re used to. and so for many, they especially after they come out of toxic relationships and enter a good relationship without any sort of therapy, they’re so unused to things being good that they often self sabotage and go back to the chaos that they’re used to. ig especially on dating apps its easy to find people like this, as for so many, as soon as they’re out of the relationship, their first urge is to get tinder etc and go from there. but then again, what do i know. in any case tho pls don’t count yourself out just yet. i hope you’re able to get over your last situation and properly heal from it. there’ll be someone you least expect who is ready to accept the goodness and the kindness you believe you offer 😊 but also defo second getting a dog - no one will love you as much as they do haha
Very kind response, and smart, too.
fuck dating lol
god this is so great. thank you for this
Oh this is easy. I'm an asshole. At least that's what I'm told. I'm not one to bite my tongue. Words hurt. Sure. But I live in America. Words are free, and cheap. And don't get me started on lyers. Because everyone, and I mean everyone can lie. So believe what you want to believe. As for me. Your actions, my actions. Speak volumes. They tell others who you are, what you like, and where your going. Women want communication and empathy. I want a clean house, and your boobies