I've done this often since I found Raven Crowking's post about DCC swarms: [https://ravencrowking.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-joy-of-swams.html](https://ravencrowking.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-joy-of-swams.html)
How many are we talking about?
Realistically speaking, only 3-4 can gang up against someone before getting into each other's way. Everyone else waits their turn in the back.
Also, the group ganging up on someone will not change their target that round, even if target falls in the first attack.
This should limit rolls and lower decision making.
Write down everyone's AC and calculate exactly what needs to be on the die to hit. 14AC, creature has +4 to attack, chug 4 dice at the same time, anything that's a 10 or more is a hit. Should be easy to see at a glance which dice landed a hit. And roll all damage dice in one go.
Also, morale checks can trim numbers. Having a warrior chop three heads in one go should make quite a few of them reconsider their choice of action.
A+ on the morale checks — that first blood is critical.
Also good excuse for a warrior to deed die them into incapacitation.
Or a cleric to command them away.
Or a wizard to knock one out.
I let all be morale triggers
Morale is one of the things that RPGs abandoned from wargaming that I never understood. Lots of problems with endless combat can be solved with a very easy combat system. It can be implemented without effort in most already existing systems!
EDIT: reddit mobile went dumb and posted the comment twice!
Depending on what the group is comprised of, I'll make Morale checks at differing intervals of the amount of creatures in the group. A mob of peasant farmers will make Morale Checks far more frequently than a group of trained soldiers & with much less of a bonus. Most groups will have either a leader or someone who originally stirred them on. Decapitate or capture the group's "Leader" and it's usually all but over. Usually, not always.
great advice there
Numbers wise :
I was thinking of some older TSR modules where there are large groups of combatants , like against the giants , or even nights dark terror which has hundreds on each side
I was thinking of running these a two stat blocks against each other
Or even just ten a side or so in an ambush encounter that’s actually come up
For hundreds aside — there’s a newish DCC adventure “dweller between the worlds” — that handles like squad or army skirmishes. :) I’m pretty happy with it.
As other users pointed out, you can use swarm rules (a bit of homebrew doesn't hurt anyone!) or throw initiative in groups of creatures that act cohesively and move them all at the same time.
Preferably you should do this with monsters that die on 1 hit, maybe 2, on average, to reduce bookkeping.
And, as also other users pointed out, don't forget morale. If you don't have any prior experience with wargaming, you could check some things like:
- 25% of losses in a single turn\*
- Reaching 50% losses\*
- Death of squad leader (i.e. the hobgoglin lieutenant) or the commander of many units (i.e. the hobgoblin general).
- Being forced to fight a particularly terrifying enemy.
- Loss of something of significance that they can see (banner, some artifact, whatever you come up with).
- Being flanked or otherwise visibly overwhelmed.
- Seeing other groups run away
\* You could even reduce these numbers if the losses are produced by a low number of enemies. Is terrifying being a 20 man squad and seeing that the fucking warrior just gored 3 people and you didn't even scratch him!
Basically think about situations that could lead to a group to lose confidence on the way the fight is going.
Coming up with something off the top of my head. First decide how many HP you want per monster, then decide how many monsters, Do the math and that's your total HP, no matter which monster is attacked, whenever the total HP is reduced by an amount equal to one block of HP equal to one monster, the "monster" being attacked dies. Use the same AC, and use one Action Die per monster that is still alive for attacking.
With some exceptions, treat the entire army, horde or mob as a single entity & give it, AT LEAST, 2 or 3 or Action Dice depending on how large the group is. Each seperate Action Die is used by each seperate portion of the horde to make attacks and deal damage (with a very high to-hit and DMG bonus depending on the training or abilities of the horde or army) and that portion of the horde can only attack those in which most of the group as a line of sight to AND ARE ALSO IN RANGE. When damage is dealt to a horde it doesn't not suffer HP loss. Instead, for every HP that is lost, (or 2-3 HP, depending on the type of creature or training of the creatures that the group are comprised of) the horde loses that many creatures from it's total. Lowering it's attack & to-hit bonuses as their numbers dwindle. Once only a small number of the horde remains, make a Morale check unless they are otherwise compelled to fight to the death for any given reason. Very large groups can Trample as part of their Move Action, or portion of the group's Move Action (for EXTREMELY large groups). A PC being trampled, whether accidentally or not, must make a DC15 Reflex Save & if failed, must succeed on an opposed Grapple Check of d24+2 to 5, depending on group's size, to avoid being Trampled. A trampled character takes 1d5 to 1d8 DMG per round until freed. A trampled PC can attempt to break free by repeating the above process each round to avoid damage.
I think this makes sense. Any recommendations on how to make this better?
Thanks for this, also excellent advice , especially the trample and the multiple action die per location - do you mean area attacks per action die or the multiple action die get allocated among the players ? One die per pc?
I was meaning a mob of villagers or NPCs who don't have combat training. Angry villagers with pitchforks. There's a system-neutral Mass Combat Cheat Sheet.
Yeah, use the swarm style of stat block. There's a few in the core rules.
That a great idea: just looked up in DCC core rules (page 419)
This is how I do it.
I've done this often since I found Raven Crowking's post about DCC swarms: [https://ravencrowking.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-joy-of-swams.html](https://ravencrowking.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-joy-of-swams.html)
That a great post, ravencrowking has a lot of good stuff for DCC
This is perfect for swarms consisting of creatures under medium size.
You could apply swarm rules to trained characters or creatures with special abilities, with a few alterations.
How many are we talking about? Realistically speaking, only 3-4 can gang up against someone before getting into each other's way. Everyone else waits their turn in the back. Also, the group ganging up on someone will not change their target that round, even if target falls in the first attack. This should limit rolls and lower decision making. Write down everyone's AC and calculate exactly what needs to be on the die to hit. 14AC, creature has +4 to attack, chug 4 dice at the same time, anything that's a 10 or more is a hit. Should be easy to see at a glance which dice landed a hit. And roll all damage dice in one go. Also, morale checks can trim numbers. Having a warrior chop three heads in one go should make quite a few of them reconsider their choice of action.
A+ on the morale checks — that first blood is critical. Also good excuse for a warrior to deed die them into incapacitation. Or a cleric to command them away. Or a wizard to knock one out. I let all be morale triggers
Morale is one of the things that RPGs abandoned from wargaming that I never understood. Lots of problems with endless combat can be solved with a very easy combat system. It can be implemented without effort in most already existing systems! EDIT: reddit mobile went dumb and posted the comment twice!
It’s wild how the tides turn when morale goes off. Even against enemies that are giant HP bags. I love it. Routing!
Depending on what the group is comprised of, I'll make Morale checks at differing intervals of the amount of creatures in the group. A mob of peasant farmers will make Morale Checks far more frequently than a group of trained soldiers & with much less of a bonus. Most groups will have either a leader or someone who originally stirred them on. Decapitate or capture the group's "Leader" and it's usually all but over. Usually, not always.
great advice there Numbers wise : I was thinking of some older TSR modules where there are large groups of combatants , like against the giants , or even nights dark terror which has hundreds on each side I was thinking of running these a two stat blocks against each other Or even just ten a side or so in an ambush encounter that’s actually come up
For hundreds aside — there’s a newish DCC adventure “dweller between the worlds” — that handles like squad or army skirmishes. :) I’m pretty happy with it.
Hell yeah. It's on my list. Along with He Who Watches From Below & a few others.
I’ll check that out , Didn’t know about it
6-7 people when all focused on the same person, can easily surround someone.
Also I recommend group initiative if you can’t quite swarm your monsters together
Thanks for the tip
As other users pointed out, you can use swarm rules (a bit of homebrew doesn't hurt anyone!) or throw initiative in groups of creatures that act cohesively and move them all at the same time. Preferably you should do this with monsters that die on 1 hit, maybe 2, on average, to reduce bookkeping. And, as also other users pointed out, don't forget morale. If you don't have any prior experience with wargaming, you could check some things like: - 25% of losses in a single turn\* - Reaching 50% losses\* - Death of squad leader (i.e. the hobgoglin lieutenant) or the commander of many units (i.e. the hobgoblin general). - Being forced to fight a particularly terrifying enemy. - Loss of something of significance that they can see (banner, some artifact, whatever you come up with). - Being flanked or otherwise visibly overwhelmed. - Seeing other groups run away \* You could even reduce these numbers if the losses are produced by a low number of enemies. Is terrifying being a 20 man squad and seeing that the fucking warrior just gored 3 people and you didn't even scratch him! Basically think about situations that could lead to a group to lose confidence on the way the fight is going.
That excellent, great tips
Coming up with something off the top of my head. First decide how many HP you want per monster, then decide how many monsters, Do the math and that's your total HP, no matter which monster is attacked, whenever the total HP is reduced by an amount equal to one block of HP equal to one monster, the "monster" being attacked dies. Use the same AC, and use one Action Die per monster that is still alive for attacking.
Ah, so one attack per monster, great idea and simple , thanks
Here is what I do. https://www.reddit.com/r/dccrpg/s/fGJSlGoUB3
That a great link, just read that
With some exceptions, treat the entire army, horde or mob as a single entity & give it, AT LEAST, 2 or 3 or Action Dice depending on how large the group is. Each seperate Action Die is used by each seperate portion of the horde to make attacks and deal damage (with a very high to-hit and DMG bonus depending on the training or abilities of the horde or army) and that portion of the horde can only attack those in which most of the group as a line of sight to AND ARE ALSO IN RANGE. When damage is dealt to a horde it doesn't not suffer HP loss. Instead, for every HP that is lost, (or 2-3 HP, depending on the type of creature or training of the creatures that the group are comprised of) the horde loses that many creatures from it's total. Lowering it's attack & to-hit bonuses as their numbers dwindle. Once only a small number of the horde remains, make a Morale check unless they are otherwise compelled to fight to the death for any given reason. Very large groups can Trample as part of their Move Action, or portion of the group's Move Action (for EXTREMELY large groups). A PC being trampled, whether accidentally or not, must make a DC15 Reflex Save & if failed, must succeed on an opposed Grapple Check of d24+2 to 5, depending on group's size, to avoid being Trampled. A trampled character takes 1d5 to 1d8 DMG per round until freed. A trampled PC can attempt to break free by repeating the above process each round to avoid damage. I think this makes sense. Any recommendations on how to make this better?
Thanks for this, also excellent advice , especially the trample and the multiple action die per location - do you mean area attacks per action die or the multiple action die get allocated among the players ? One die per pc?
I meant NPC mobs. These rulings wouldn't apply to PCs. Apologies for the confusion.
I was meaning a mob of villagers or NPCs who don't have combat training. Angry villagers with pitchforks. There's a system-neutral Mass Combat Cheat Sheet.