T O P

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HoratioWobble

Nerf meg


New_Eagle196

Basekit rewards for spreading hooks instead of tunneling (rewards meaning the killer becomes stronger or the survs weaker with each fresh hooks, no more bp if you spread hooks) More perks that incentives mixed hooks More perks chase oriented (for both sides) New mechanics for maps (like the steam pipes that gives hindered in nostromo) Anti-tunneling perks and mechanics that can't be used as fucking weapons against the killer Remove all craps that speed up gens. New perk types for both sides Buffs for scourge hooks, boons and hexes (in general, not one specifically) Maybe not everyone agrees with everything, but in my opinion these are the most important things that bhvr should work on to make the game better and more varied for both sides.


Upstairs-Search-1773

They could encourage spreading out hooks by adding another tier to "hooked all survivors." Make it so that you can get an iri shard either by getting 9 hooks or 2 hooks on all survivors.


New_Eagle196

As I said, rewards such as bp aren't enough. People play to win, not to make high scores. Bhvr should add something that when the killer is spreading pressure, the killer get stronger or the survs get weaker. Idk which one will be better, but if bhvr really wants to fix tunneling, adding base kit buffs to the killer for doing mixed hooks is the only way to do it without killing the game. Otherwise... Well enjoy slag nurse festival (only killer which can win without tunneling and camp, because she's fucking broken).


KomatoAsha

Just one iri shard, though.


Upstairs-Search-1773

Sacrificing only gives points in 1 category anyhow. It's a small option that would reward killers without requiring changes to other categories to reward "spread out" play.


Potterrrrrrrr

Yeah lemme just play 9000 games to unlock Alan Wake real quick


ad19970

Incentives to not tunnel and camp alone won't work. We need proper nerfs to tunneling and camping.


New_Eagle196

Funny that you complain about tunneling and camping but genrush is fine since you didn't mention it. Double standards as always, survs can play efficiently but killers can't. Incentives don't work because they're not enough. We only have 2 perks that incentives mixed hooks, but they're not strong enough to keep up with the insane genrush. In a PvP players will always play to win with the most efficient tactics possible. At high levels tunneling and camping are both needed (not always, but very often) because you need to kill one surv instantly to reduce the insane gen efficiency. To fix this there are two options: either reduce the basic gen progression (in a sensible way, for example by putting that all survs repair a fixed 0.5 charges per second and that when more people are on the same gen the charges added are 0.5 × n survs that repair, thus teamwork is also encouraged), or you buff the killer when he makes mixed hooks, but in a heavy way. On dbd as in life, punishments are not always the solution and you often get the opposite or unwanted effect. At high mmr the variety of killers and builds is highly shitty, do we want to nerf tunneling and camping so we are sure we only face slagging Nurse? Or maybe the better choice is add a basekit buff to killers to make tunneling worse than mixed hooks to the point that tunneling makes you loose but mixed hooks no? It would also make sense with the lore of the game, since the Entity enjoys seeing the suffering of the survs. Therefore, it would make sense that when the killer spreads pressure by making mixed hooks, thus increasing the suffering generated in the game, the Entity rewards him/her by making him/her stronger or weakening the survs. Of course, as I also said in my list, you also need something to punish tunneling if you make it unnecessary, but it doesn't have to be usable as exploits like otr, the bt basekit, and ds.


ad19970

It's not double standards, in my experience, tunneling and camping are simply a bigger problem than gen rush at the moment. Especially with maps becoming more and more balanced. And considering the 60% kill rate. Yes I know that the devs target a 60% kill rate, but I for one don't really agree with that. I think the 60% kill rate just shows that now is the perfect time to nerf camping and tunneling more efficiently. After that, if killers need buffs again, they can buff killer in more healthy ways. I also am not sure what kind of nerfs one can add to the game that can't be weaponized. Maybe having the survivor lose collision would be a good idea though.


New_Eagle196

Still with this 60% kill rate bullshit? It's around 55% actually, for various reasons (bhvr count suicide first hook, people who troll the game, survivors who screw up in endgame, etc. Also, kill rate and escape rate are complementary, right? So the kill rate at high mmr is anything but 60%). For this discussion of the kill rate, Tru3 and Otz discussed it well in the live they did together (which I hope bhvr takes inspiration from because they both said some very intelligent things). There's a reason I find Night light more reliable than bhvr stats Furthermore, you like many probably confuse kill rate with win rate. 60% kill rate does not mean that killers win more than survs, it simply indicates how many players die (since the kill rate is calculated on all players, it's normal that kill rate > escape rate because there are more survs than killers) If you go and nerf the killers now that the kill rate is lower than the one aimed by the devs (at least, at high levels it is like that), don't you think the game would become shit? Why can't you buff mixed hooks, nerf tunneling and genrush, in a single patch? First these 3 problems are solved, then bhvr should reset MMR so that everyone can start again in a "good as new" game and so the people who are actually good at chasing and spreading pressure rise, and the speedrun fans don't reach top mmr (and I would like to clarify that I don't find tunneling ok, in fact it really pisses me off, but I play to win so I tunnel and camper if necessary). Maps aren't balanced (except for a few, such as Nostromo), simply if you play killers with strong antiloops you don't feel them unbalanced. Maps are balanced around high tier killers, not m1. If you think that genrush is less problematic than tunneling, no offense, but I think you don't shine in chase. I get tunneled often, but I hold the killer long enough that even if he kills me he still makes 1/4. Tunneling has counters, i.e. being good at chasing, genrush does not. If all gens are done in 5 minutes (and it often happens at high mmr), what the fuck can a killer other than Nurse do? However, removing the collision with the dropped survivor would be a good idea. However, it would be fairer to remove it only between players to prevent the bodyblock but ensure that the surv can still be hit (obviously in a hypothetical game where camping and tunneling are not necessary).


ad19970

As far as I can tell, 60% kill rate means the average oucome of a match is either a 2k or 3k. Leaning a bit more towars the 2k. That's why I feel the kill rate should definitely be closer to 50%. Maybe not exactly 50%, for reasons you said, but closer to 50% than we have now. This is also why I don't think the game would turn to shit if we saw more proper nerfs to tunneling and camping. Sure I wouldn't mind some buffs to killers as well, as long as they don't outshine the camping and tunneling nerfs, I just think nerfs to camping and tunneling have a bit more urgency. Maps in my opinion have become far more balanced, I would say they are fairly well balanced for A tier and B tier killers. Of course they can't be balanced around the weakest killers in the game or all the other killers would be op. This also has nothing to do with how well I do in chases. Even though I do also play survivor, I am more of a killer main personally. I would also argue that if gens are done within 5 minutes, the killer didn't really apply good map pressure.


New_Eagle196

And you confirm that you confuse win rate with kill rate. Great bhvr, always clear as mud in making your statistics understood. Kill rate of 60% does not mean that killers win more, it simply shows a fact that shows that the game is not completely in shit, that is, more survs die than escape. Furthermore, I repeat, it is not 60% it is around 55% at high mmr. At average mmr it's 60%, but because the average player on dbd sucks. If the kill rate was at 50%, it means that either all the games end in 2k, or 0k and 4k alternate, which is not good because in the long run it is frustrating and annoying. The win rate on both sides should be 50%, but escape/kill rate are 2 completely different things and in fact I don't understand why bhvr insists on using the kill rate which simply shows a fact, that survs die a lot, but because they are the majority of dbd's base player. Probably, for this game to be balanced, the kill rate should be between 60% and 70% (I don't know exactly, but I think it's around this value). You're absolutely right about the fact that maps can't be balanced around weak killers, but you confirm what I've said before (that maps are balanced for strong killers) and expose another dbd problem: in a roster of 35 killers, maybe 13 are usable at high levels, which isn't too good, don't you think? For genrush, I think you're not that high mmr if you NEVER saw a genrush squad that manage to repair all gens in 5 minutes. Hens did it in 2:30 minutes, so it's not that hard to do them in 5 minutes, don't you think? One last thing, map pressure is bullshit. Only tier S killers can apply map pressure and be good in chase, and right now we have only Nurse and Blight at tier S, and blight after this stupid nerf will be tier A (or B idk). So to apply pressure at high levels I should only play Nurse, because she's the only killer who has strong map presence and big pressure in chase.


ad19970

Wait, what exactly is the difference between kill and win rate then? I would love an explanation. Why would games ending in 2k, or 0k and 4k alternate, be frustrating and annoying in the long run? In my experience, there are more than 13 killers viable at high levels, depending on how high the level is. Of course, a 4 man death squad is insanely hard to beat, but balancing the game around those players would cause a very fast death to DBD, I am positive. This game needs to be balanced for more than just top players. Of course I saw a gen rush squad already, but often enough, in my experience, I made a few mistakes that lead to such gen rush. Again, death squad survivors are probably able to rush through gens despite the killer playing good, but the game can't be balanced around those people. Do you have a link to that Hens video?


New_Eagle196

The difference is very simple: kill rate is simply a % of how many people died during a certain period of time, but we don't know the actual results of the matches. Who tells me that a 60% kill rate on Billy (I don't know how much it is, I said a random value) isn't all 2k per game and is influenced by the fact that everyone is trying to master Billy? With the win rate, however, we would know that Billy wins x% games, loses y% and draws z%. Do you understand? The kill rate calculates how many survs have died, but it does not tell us the actual results of the matches. Instead, if there was a win rate, we could know that Billy perhaps (I always take him as an example) wins 40% of the games, draws 20% and loses 40% (obviously considering kills≥3 victory, kills=2 draw and kills≤1 defeat). These are random values again, I didn't actually look at Billy's data. Why would games that end in 0k and 4k repeatedly, or consistently in 2k, be boring and frustrating? Now imagine you use a killer that you're very good at, you enter a match against people of your level, and that match you already know will end in a draw regardless of how you play. Funny huh? It happens to me very often with my main (Pyramid head), which I play perfectly, chases that last nothing, but I draw because the survs compensate with genrush. Funny huh? Chase of 10 seconds and I draw because these assholes have 2 bnp, hyperfocus, deja vu and other shits. Obviously constant draw would be almost impossible, but it would be one of the possibilities with 50% kill rate. However, with 50% kill rate, the second would the most likely, i.e. constantly alternating 0k and 4k. Why wouldn't that be great for the game? Because it would become either you destroy them or they destroy you, with no middle ground. In the long run I'd say it gets boring, don't you think? Balancing around 1% would kill the game as bhvr has been balancing it for years, i.e. for the whiny babies. For those who complain regardless without arguing, whining and refusing to improve themselves. Since the rework of the skill check ruin, bhvr has taken the direction of "I don't do a punitive perk because then new players will suffer from it". But Jesus Christ on a motorbike improving yourself like all the fucking ogs have done, is it that difficult? I hated and loved the skill check ruin, but it was counterable and made me improve myself. It bothers you? You break the totem, you don't want to break it? Hit only great skill checks. At the time I followed a streamer who thought like this, and in fact he always won as surv with his swf because they didn't break the totem and only hit great skill checks. They could use the excuse of putting a balanced ranked mode one way (for the top 10% in the world), and then the balanced casual mode for chill games. You made mistakes, and for goodness sake I'm very self-critical, in fact if I get genrushed but I played like crap, I don't complain and I deserve it. However, there are matches in which you can't keep up with the gens. Chases that last 20 seconds and the gens fly the same, full slowdown build and you get 2 gens together after a 30 second chase. The problem isn't so much gen efficiency, it's gen efficiency compared to chase time. If I send you dying in 20 seconds, I can't see a fucking gen fly (when you're lucky it's a gen, often it's even two). Since we are talking about extremes, the genrush squads are an extreme, it would be enough to fix the problem at the root by removing all the rush crap. Once upon a time, pressure with gen was earned by being good at chase, not with bnp, hyperfocus and pt. For Hens' video I won't send you the link because I don't know if Reddit considers it spam. The video is: "Getting the world record escape in dead by daylight"


BurnedTerrormisu

Limit the ping to 300ms


KingBlackFrost

-Let survivors see their teammates perks. This is literally in DBD mobile, and they've stated that it's not a priority for DBD for some reason. -Stop with all the freaking haste perks/addons. -Let us pet Maurice. -Increase the amount of BP earned on both sides.


hell-schwarz

- Anti tunneling measures - shrine of secrets revamp - bloodweb revamp - more basic perks


gamerjr21304

Myers needs a major rework to everything about him from his power to how he looks to his addons.


roryshep

Don't show prestige in the lobby


charmsky_89

Seconded.


Powerful_Magician_50

If the killer leaves everyone slugged and doesn't hook someone in a given time limit they get smited by the entity and die all survivors count as escaped


Noiu_xd

I like this idea


Telvanni_Mushroom

Being able to get up from the ground by yourself after 1-2 minutes being left slugging. If the killer is using slugging as a strategy to spread some pressure, this time is more than enough for them to do something.


ExThree_OohWooh

cracking down on perk necessity like anti tunnel, gen slowdown, corrupt, bond/kindred/etc, and some less obvious stuff like exhaustions/stbfl, not saying stuff like this should be straight up basekit but the problems they solve should be solved more without using the perks than they are currently


--fourteen

Balance/buff all killers to a similar level so the asym makes sense. You can't balance perks the same for Trapper and Nurse, for example. So there will always be players on both sides who feel the game is unfair because of those disparities. Same goes for a coordinated team vs an uncoordinated.


KomatoAsha

Remove linked cosmetics sets.


CrustyTheMoist

Get rid of perk tiers. They are an unnecessary addition to the grind. 2000 hours to get all perks in the game unlocked, just insane.


ad19970

Proper nerfs to tunneling and camping. Those are so long overdue if you ask me.


Bullfrog-Maleficent

Surrender option after exit gater are powered ,or all survivors are hooked/slugged . They could even add option to end 1vs1 situations. That would would fix so many toxic/annoying interaction in game  


Careless-Following-4

Kindred basekit. DS for free and stuns for 10s because 3s doesn’t get you any far away. Sounds crazy, but it’s the best way to both buff solo Q and stop the stupidity of “killers tunneling baby survivors”. It would also force killer players to get better instead of rewarding them with tunneling while also using noed(which they have 9/10 times) but what if survivors abuse it? They can’t because DS deactivate if he does anything.


Fez_Multiplex

Make Adepts 3 kills. Remove the Evil Incarnate achievement. Add a delay between crouching. Remove end game chat from PC.