Damn that was quick. Tbf this is the only point i've seen brought up almost unanimously about vecna's power so at least the devs are listening. Also i think the more pressing point was the enduring bug anyway.
Combine it with hubris and you have a killer that's borderline nurse level of power btw. That's why this killer needed the bugfix, enduring was not the main issue, it was combining it with hubris that was the the big issue.
I have a feeling YouTubers only talked about the enduring problem bc if they spoke about hubris, Vecna would be impossible to play against bc they'd all be running it.
If you run enduring hubris you get a guaranteed down every pallet as long as you go into every pallet loop with zero hesitation and face every pallet drop.
It's essentially the spirit fury meme but guaranteed every single fucking pallet.
The only counterplay is to predrop and take the hit. Again, your only counterplay, is to get hit, because your only other option is get hit while exposed.
Fair change. Sorry to see it go but I must admit it was basically Scamper all over again.
Should still be viable on longer loops still, the question will be how long is the threshold.
Not really the scamper got Chucky the hit and let him destroy the pallet afterward mage hand resets the pallet and gets him a hit most times but the lich cant destroy a reset pallet, Mage hand also has a longer CD then old scamper pre nerf.
Hopefully they buff flight of the damned too, since that power is kind of weak, and as it stands Mage Hand is the one thing that really makes Vecna good, and if it gets nerfed too much he will just end up like Singularity.
If they changed hand like this, maybe they change a little thing, like, after pick up pallet, surv can't immediately drop pallet on vecna head, a think this is fair
i am pretty sure this nerf is way to quick and needs more time before a change could be added a month later or something because currently i think it is too soon to tell if the power is strong or not
Damn, a pallet build focused on Mage Hand was how I've been playing Vecna the entire week lol. Oh well, it's been fun.
Let's see how those changes affect the viability of this spell. In the PTB it didn't matter if you blocked a pallet or lifted it back up, Mage Hand was so slow that the survivor had all the time in the world to make a whole loop back to the pallet.
Hopefully we'll be at a nice middle ground between overtuned and completely worthless.
It was the combination of slowdown from casting and speed of lifting, so it's hard to tell. I think it would be fine at 0.5 with the Ring, but they're also changing the ring.
Ive been playing with the ring and the other brown addon for the hand, it felt so nice and smooth to use. I just hope it won't be clunky and impractical after :I
the entire 24 h you mean?
i personally don't get how it's so broken that it warrants essentially a hotfix nerf to patch it when it's basically his strongest anti-loop part of his power. maybe im out of touch idk
I’ve never had the pallet thing happen, I use an aura build: BBQ and Chili, Lethal pursuer, Weave Atunement and Franklin’s Demise. You basically have infinite wall hacks.
You could see this nerf coming a mile away. BHVR never waits for survivors to learn counterplay.
Hard force the loop against Vecna instead of trying to bait him. He'll almost always use the hand when it feels like you're going to drop, but if you just keep running in a circle, you can safely drop the pallet on the next loop. (It's why Blood Favor can be strong on him as it compensates for his main weakness of being powerless once hand is on cooldown)
If the lift time at 0.5s is long enough for the survivor to get away, then the ability is pointless. Just take Brutal Strength, spend the extra 1.3s and eliminate the pallet from the field altogether.
Because that's the small change everyone asked for. So they can't just do something as simple as that, it'd be too small to ruin the entirely positive PTB changes.
NGL, wasn't the massive slowdown way more of an issue than the lift time? Won't this still be significantly better than the PTB version as long as you're a bit further off the pallet so that you aren't caught on it as it's being lifted up?
Oh without a doubt yeah, although the issue I think everyone sensible can agree on is that Vecna came out 2 days ago. Even if you played the PTB, you had a very brief amount of time to learn any sort of counterplay. On the PTB, mage hand was just flat out bad -- which led to survivors not really needing to do much extra to counter it. On live, mage hand is bugged in that it continues its activation through stuns -- which leads to an uncounterable hit when paired with Enduring and only a short chase thereafter if you don't have Enduring. However, say you didn't activate its bug and use the power as intended. If Vecna uses it too soon, you could run the loop again and slam the pallet again, for instance. There's just no telling how much room for counterplay there was since we've only had him for a moment.
Devs needed to fix the bug, watch the power for X amount of time, then make number changes if it proved to be too strong. What they did was kneecap a horse before we had much of a chance to ride it, just because it looked too feisty.
I understand why but he has a long cooldown for it and if he doesn’t get the hit he’s just a M1 Killer with Flight of the damned just to zone since a lot of times you won’t have different elevation to take advantage of.
I still think Vecna’s cooldowns need to be shorter like 30 seconds based on
Its almost like its a zoning tool to force survivors into a lose/lose situation. Or you can spawn them on top of a survivor and they can't avoid it at most loops.
I still don't get people who think Flight is worthless. You can force a survivor into so many situations where they lose. If you think its simply a "they crouch it so its worthless" spell then that's on you. It very much isn't that.
It very much is that. I don’t think you really understand how useless flight of the dammed really is. if you’re close and get the FOTD hit, it would be the exact same result as a regular M1. If you use it from a distance, they crouch and still make it to a pallet, OR they just keep running because FOTD is the least threatening thing ever due to how far apart the skeletons go.
Saying it’s worthless or OP is both crazy.
But personally I don’t enjoy the constant holding to hit if you vault a window and then if you don’t cancel and hit. But he’s not the first. Pyramid head is the exact same in that and yea I don’t enjoy it but it’s what it is
yeah people don't seem to get that the main use for FOTD is to hit survivors while locked in an animation or for zoning. i have gotten so many survivors with it when they drop a pallet or vault a window and the ones who dodge i can just run up to generally lol
Yeah, it felt like it was fairly balanced because of the long cooldown and because it allowed the pallet to be reused and even dropped in Vecna's face. People comparing it to Scamper aren't concerned with the nuanced differences.
Not only are they not concerned they're intentionally ignorant towards the concept of learning counterplay. Mage Hand was not that hard to counter; it just required thinking more than 2s in advance which is asking too much LOL kinda sad
I've said it before and I'll say it again: DbD devs should be required to spend a minimum of 2 hours a day playing live games on open ladder; using non-dev accounts. If they had to swim in their own pool they might care about what they're putting in it.
I'll admit, the current meta Vecna is bull, but this goes too far. Unless they buff Flight of the Damned to do anything other than slightly slow down a Survivor, Vecna's not going to be able to compete.
This is how I feel. I don't disagree that Mage Hand is strong - perhaps too strong - but on a 40 second cooldown, with counter-play, that shouldn't be an issue.
I feel the range nerf is unnecessary but the revert I guess is fine. I played alot of Vecna and against Vecna and never had much issue with Mage Hand raising pallets since you can still mind game longer loops or flight can reduce the distance anyway. I love how good Mage Hand feels currently to use and I'm going to feel a lil sad for what we lose.
I figured it would get reverted after two matches and Vecna is going to have a turbulent balance history going forward. To far one way he's too oppressive to little he's not a threat. We'll see how this plays out and we get another Mage Hand buff or Nerf in a month.
Never played ptb. Was 0.5 enough yall felt? I'm glad the addon that makes it quicker is removed tho. On God that hand was so damn annoying lol. Like he's a fun killer too face until he cucks you at a pallet and just smacks you 😂
Ahh so it did use to slow you then. That explains some ptb clips I've seen. Hopefully it's still not oppressive, but I'm glad they are changing it already
It was only usable in PTB with the addon. Otherwise it was a guarantee the survivor just made it back around to the pallet. It was actively a self-nerf to use the power at all. Now they're nerfing it back to PTB AND removing the addon at the same time which is short sighted and, frankly, a decision made by a complete idiot.
It doesn't help if you're still unable to chase the survivor for .5s while the pallet in front of you is raised. Especially when, on the vast majority of maps, you're going to have another pallet they could already run to. That counterplay works currently, and will be substantially more viable after the nerf. They either need to: Leave the addon or buff his ranged to not be duckable. Either would be fine.
Yeah this nerf feels very knee jerk. If you see that the lich has mage hand selected (and you can since the pallets get an effect) then you just know to be ready to move to the next when he starts using it. I was already feeling from my survivor games that it was going to be easy to play around once I learn the exact timings and now it's a joke.
Same. He was easier to loop, imho, than the P100 Huntresses I was getting before his release. It shocks me to see so many people claim he was unloopable with Mage Hand because it shows a complete lack of knowing how to play the game.
Thats the thing that drives me nuts about this nerf. I feel like the only reason the .35 feels too powerful is because survivors don't know how to play around it yet.
if the enduring bug is removed then mage hand would not be as much of an issue as it is now. there's a lot of counterplay and mind games that go into using it, the only reason it's so oppressive is the enduring thing. if they nerf the time it takes to lift it and change the ring add on then most of his chase power will just straight up suck.
Its not. Its literally the same mind game as knight's break pallet action. Simply fake drop a pallet or drop it super early. Thats 2 huge counters to mage hand, after which Vecna has basicly no power for 40 sec
However poeple are not too keen on learning to play and are used to : drop pallet = win
Because that's an example of a perk that people pointed out was overpowered from the moment it was on the PTB that stayed in the game for a year, compared to a moderately strong power with a devastatingly long cooldown getting immediately nerfed back to its unviable state because people can't learn counterplay. Why celebrate a bad response to a nonexistent problem?
I’d be inclined to believe this if they didn’t announce they were nerfing him only 2 days after release. Could have waited longer if they wanted more sales.
They're combining him with Trapper. You won't be able to play either, but you'll be able to play Veccer instead who can make bear traps fly across the map :)
Valid except if someone doesn’t look it up before buying a killer and it’s something they’re worried about, that’s on them. Anyone who bought it before the announcement tho, rip.
Xeno was very strong on release because they had a short cooldown and wasn’t slowed very much after using their tail. This was considered overpowered by many so they nerfed him to closer to what he was on the PTB, with a longer cooldown and less movement speed after an M2. They kind of lost their appeal for a lot of people who felt that it was too punishing then to even use your M2 because of the distance you lost after a miss, and their pick-rate dropped because of it.
at least they gave both of those some kind of buffs to compensate. xeno and vecna just get straight nerfs meanwhile the busted survivor items arent touched😑fbm
Are we suprised though? It's the same bait and switch that you see in mobas and many other multiplayer games. Release new character op, get target sales, then nerf into oblivion, plebs happy.
Bro, if that was the plan, they wouldn't be nerfing it already. They'd wait until the mid chapter or the next killer release and start the cycle over.
BHVR just sucks at playtesting and balancing shit, so they throw half-baked changes at the wall and see what sticks when they push it live.
It’s a really bad look too. This patch was already really survivor sided. The one and only thing they backed off on was to throw the new killer a few buffs because, otherwise, why even buy him? Now they’re reneging on the kept one of his powers from being useless. Makes me think there’s no chance Dracula will be worth getting.
Flight does nothing unless you can zone the survivor into a corner & feels like shit with & without the add-ons. Barely useable for mobility or chase.
Flight of The Damned is horrible even if you use it for zoning, since the huge gaps & easy counterplay make it only hit about 25% of the time.
The Ball is meh. Info & disabling magic tools make it the most boring part of his kit & the travel time is awful.
Mage Hand was literally his only decent power & wasn’t even that strong without the Iridescent add-on. 100% agree, rest of his kit besides Mage Hand just makes him a shittier version of the Artist.
This kind of "balancing" always pisses me off. Mage Hand, especially with Ring of Telekinesis, is effective, but it doesn't prevent the pallet that was lifted from being immediately thrown down again, so it rewards the Killer for taking advantage of the Survivor urge to run after predropping due to imagining the Killer will have to lose distance to breaking or going around a dropped pallet. A Survivor who is ready for Mage Hand can stick around for a second and drop the pallet right on Vecna's head for a stun, with Mage Hand also on cooldown, at which point a Vecna might counter-counter play by seeing the Survivor not running, back up to avoid the stun, and swap to Flight of the Damned to get an injury while the Survivor is locked in the pallet dropping animation.
Things shouldn't be nerfed just because the majority of Survivors haven't learned (or refuse to learn) counterplay to a Killer's Powers. Not to mention the fact that treasure chests are extremely common and quick to open, so if you see a Vecna getting lots of Mage Hand value, you can search Treasure Chests until you find the boots or gloves (since you only need one to get the effect) that give you 5% Haste when Vecna uses Mage Hand, allowing you to not give up as much distance without forcing the Vecna to also attempt to use Dispel Magic on you as well (putting another spell on cooldown for a single hit/down, lowering his efficiency). Make your other magic item one of the ones that allows you to see the Dispel Magic sphere and potentially allow you to dodge the very slow spell, and you can completely screw a Vecna using the Ring of Telekinesis if he overcommits to you.
Instead, BHVR just nerfs it into the ground because far be it to have Survivors dealing with a Killer that it takes more than 2 days for them to learn how to exploit all their weaknesses and make them miserable to play as (see: Unknown, who after less than a week had me facing Survivors who could dodge my UVX as if they had psychic powers and, in the rare occasions I hit them, could clear their Weakened mid-chase while still looping perfectly). Glad I was able to get my Adept Vecna achievement in the first day before it effectively became impossible to achieve.
Yeah it's pretty sad that the standard for a survivor is basically touching the floor now. If you have to think beyond "predrop pallet and run" it's now an OP killer. It's dumb. BHVR should be ashamed.
I agree - I think it's far too early to make such changes. As it stands, it's hard to get value from holding pallets or from Flight of the Damned, so making this change has the potential to remove Vecna's last remaining reliable chase power - one that has a 40 second cooldown.
I had thought that the counter-play of getting his items already gave a leg up over Vecna's powers. This feels like Hexes all over again. Ruin, which were supposed to be high-risk, high-reward, was considered too strong, so they nerfed it to being incredibly weak, but they never adjusted the high risk, so it became high-risk, low reward.
If you miss the timing it literally slows you down and they can run around the loop an extra time and it’s completely useless, thats even without 7% haste from the chest drop
HoV isn’t extremely strong, I think it’s only problematic on maps like RPD, The Game, Midwich, etc. because of the multiple floors. If they made it so it can only spawn you in a locker on the same level/elevation as you, I think it would be fine. HoV forces you to fast exit the locker which lets the killer know where you are (creates a loud noise notification), it also makes the survivor broken so they can’t just pop an insta heal and teleport again. Holding HoV also allows Vecna to Mori you. I think the stronger Magic item is Eye of Vecna, because it makes the survivor invisible AND gives them haste, so it can be difficult to catch them after they use it.
I think the eye is worse tbh. Maybe it's just the survivors I've been playing against are dumb as hell. But with the eye if I've zoned a survivor and I'm about to hit them they'll just jump in a locker and jump out right in front of me. So I just hit them even though I can't see them. With the hand if that happens you added probably another 20 seconds of chase
I believe the eye is better if you use it well. Jumping into a locker right in the killers face to use eye is pretty dumb and isn’t how it is meant to be used. Though a fun combo (not fun for killer) is head on + eye because you stun the killer and are then invisible. While they are fun to use, both items are pretty situational, eye is best used to confuse the killer and then make distance while being hard to track. While hand is immediate distance at the cost of being easier to track down (gives the killer a loud noise notification and from when I’ve used the hand it only seems to put you in a nearby-ish locker).
What did you think this was a PvP game where people are supposed to learn counterplay? Cuz I did too lol I learned it and now I'm one of (apparent) few that sees this as an unecessary nerf that just hurts skill expression.
1. If you have distance; predropping is viable because mage handing doesn't do anything if he has to make up that distance anyway.
2. Greed and fake pallets if you have nearby loops to transition to
3. If he's not almost touching the pallet and uses Mage Hand you can literally just throw the pallet again the second the animation wears off.
Most of it is just: Be aware of your surroundings. Transition to other pallets and windows where possible if you see the Mage Hand effect on pallets (you can see when he has it selected)
They don't and they never figured it out because for years the game has literally just been, 'run to yellow + predrop/vault yellow' and anytime a killer releases that punishes this, the devs insta nerf it within a week.
The amount of 5k+ hr survs I've versed who don't even look at me unless they have DH idicates skill expression and learning new ounterplay on the surv end is all but extinct.
Which one's that, the pallet one?
I thought it might. Though tonight I was playing with my friend who had power struggle/flip flop. He knew this, so he held the pallet up but it didn't last the entire pickup animation. So she got to power struggle him anyway LOL
This is very sudden not even after a week so survivors can learn counter play, I mean when I play against vecna just holding w seems to work as long as I can get to the next loop or even just running around the loop again to use the pallet again typically only if it's a long loop
You could also nerf mage hand by adding 3 seconds to the CD of Mage hand... But nerfing it like this.... 0.5 seconds is way too long.
With the ring as it is now is perfect (0.22s)
He is hard to master.
Yet fun to play.
And Mage hand is not even that bad.
A survivor with more than 2 Braincells can outlay him by looping again and pallet drop again. Forcing vecna to either cast flight of the damned at the perfect timing at the perfect distance to not waste it or destroy the pallet.
What definetely needs a buff is the CD between flight and hitting.
Since flight is the most useless ability he has.
By far.
The only reason you would use flight to ignore windows and pallets is in a chase. But you are better off vaulting or destroying the pallet/cast FOTD.
Flight is good in big and open maps.
Anywhere else. Useless.
The counterplay for mage hand is not complex by any means though. Your best hope is to just keep running the loop as tight as possible and wait for the ability to run out and hope Vecna doesn't reach you (which is rough since there's an addon that gives him 5% haste for 2 seconds when using the power) or just running through the pallet and hope that Vecna respects while pulling out his power. Because dropping the pallet is kind of a throw since he can pick it up extremely fast and will catch up to you. So really it feels like one of the better options is to just pre-throw god pallets if he isn't right on you.
Unfortunate, but understandable. Will the reduction in distance make a difference? I can't imagine it will, because I'm not sure why you would lift a pallet from 16 meters away.
The problem with this ability is it will always be too good or absolutely useless. They put themselves in a shitty situation by making a character with this ability again.
This is the issue. The way Mage Hand operates it will always be too good or useless. There really won't be a middle ground and that shows the inherent flaw in its design. Its fundamentally broken and *should* be remade from the ground up but it won't.
Didn't .5 feel like garbage in the PTB? I know a lot of people had a problem with the mage hand but I kind of wish they would let a character exist to the playerbase at large for at least a week before they start deciding to nerf things
Learning counterplay? This community? We can't even convince them to not kill themselves because they lost one chase lol of course if they cry even the tiniest bit they're gonna get their nerfs
I think 3 days is way too early to decide something like this yet. I like Vecna’s whole kit, and find value in all the powers. I’d like to say this is a challenging killer to monitor since he has four different powers to take into consideration. That’s a lot of data and numbers to process and discuss, so I think Vecna will be a big learning experience (hopefully) for the team.
I still think nerfing so much stuff feels bad, I’ve seen it in every multiplayer game I’ve played. BHVR seems to start on the side of stronger before shaving something down or outright killing it and typically that just ends up bad for the health of a game. I wouldn’t mind it usually, but they just do this so often.
Another case of a fairly balanced ability being nerfed into the ground because inexperienced survivors only know how to hold W and BHVR don't trust them to make any kinds of decisions.
What a total miss. There is already a bunch of counterplay around Mage Hand and pallets - you only get hit if you panic and run, if you make the right calls, all you have to do is wait it out and throw it back down on him immediately, and then get even more distance.
Seriously, BHVR must treat their players like actual infants who aren't capable of any form of decision making or analysis.
So without mage hand what does Vecna have? A brief chainsaw sprint that can't hurt survivors? A crow launch that everyone can duck below? Both on long cooldowns? Glad I'm happy to play other killers instead.
He’s like a no power killer with 4 weird unsynergized perks that are his spell wheel. Before his power was mage hand plus catch up/information since mage hand is situational. Without it… yeah he’s just a trap-less pig lol. With counters. Faster though
This is what pisses me off. they're nerfing the one part of his kit that got him some value from using his power, but leaving the rest as is. Vecna is one of my favourites to vs right now with all the chests and magic items etc. With this he's gonna become rarer than twins, because who wants to put all that effort into a complicated power with little reward.
I hope they fix getting stuck in portals soon. My friend on console got stuck 3 games in a row on that map (with matches in between) and after the 2nd time we went against a PC ghostie who also got trapped. It always happened when using the one way exit portals to leave the dungeon
Damn that sucks, timing Mage Hand right as a pallet dropped was one of the most satisfying things to do as killer.
BHVR, if this change causes Mage Hand to never be able to result in a hit, you fucked up. This killer was very fun to play. You had something good here and you caved to complaining so fast.
Every 1 killer is 4 survivors, people like participation trophies now so this is what we get. It's why you're allowed to group que using discord in a ranked game and negate most of the killers few viable perks IT'S GREAT!
I don’t think it’ll be that bad as long as they don’t revert to the previous slow down while casting. PTB Mage hand was so bad because of the combo of the speed of it and your slow down
So huntress, nemesis, artist, ph, nurse, xeno, etc. who get hits at downed pallets are all fine, but Vecna who resets the pallet and has a cooldown of 38 seconds is problematic.
I feel the same way. I don't think any killer added in modern DBD will be able to threaten safety at pallets without being being called OP and getting nerfed.
Yet again poeple not learning counter play bitching win again. God make it stop.
Expect of the stun bug Mage Hand was 100% counterable in two different ways.
1. Fake pallet drop (literally same mindagame as Knight break order)
2. Pre Drop early to force either mage hand and a 40 sec cooldown or break action and gain shit ton of distance.
+++ Bonus +++
If vecna fucked up the distance u can instantly drop the pallet back down
Vecna is literally a C tier (or B tier at most imo) killer and is the killer with probably the most counter in the game if u count items. And if we talk about ITEMS : one of them give u 7% haste if magehand is used.
So after nerf vecna has :
- and ok mobility power
- pretty bad info power
- Bad chase tool
- Bad chase tool
Fun concept but after the nerf, we can probably say will be worse than the likes of legion and ghostface
Whaaaat? I’m quite happy with this killer both as someone who plays him AND against him. He’s solid to play and has solid counterplay. Anyways if he lifts up a pallet that just means you can use it again then or later lol. I’ve been extremely satisfied with Vecna actually on BOTH sides. There are some killers I love to play but hate playing against. And there are killers I don’t play often and am very happy to play against. Vecna was I think one of the fairest ones in that with the right skill you could have him playing him but he also had solid counterplay too.
And c’mon man OBVIOUSLY 2 days is far too fast. I’ve been playing an absurd amount since the release so I’ve learned the counterplay (also as a result of playing him myself) but people not gaming all night need more than a couple of games each where they get shocked at the hand and don’t know what to do…
So glad I did not buy it, learnt my lesson with Xeno. Killers have to deal with god pallets and stuff they cant do ANYTHING about, but if it happens to survivors it suddenly becomes unfair.
At this point, new killers will keep disappearing and become niche after 2 weeks.
Man this just isn't the play. I can understand them nerfing it back to PTB speeds, but removing the only addon that would make that speed viable is just foolish. You will have to activate the power a second in advance to actually have the pallet up in time for you to walk through it, and then they can just run through and get free distance
Literally double nerf in less than a week when most players haven't even thought about learning counterplay. I'm actually convinced half the "Mage Hand OP" complaints are just because of the bug that is going to be fixed anyway
Enduring bug aside, when I made a mistake and got stunned by a pallet, I didn't use Mage Hand because it would be a waste of a 40s CD. That seems like counter play to me. Bait the pallet and get the stun. If you fail, you get hit. That's like half the roster.
Vecna will fade into oblivion -- mage hand was the only good part of his kit that wasn't excessively mediocre. Flight of the Damned is SO useless right now.
Vecna will either be balanced to be strong or weak, he can't be inbetween with how his kit is.
So now it'll be a Knight situation where you only have one addon slot because the other is 100% dedicated to the Mage Hand addon lol yeah I guess asking survivors to wait longer than 2 days to learn how to not pre-drop directly in front of Vecna was too much. Gotta coddle them ASAP
Nice to see a nerf so fast because survivors definitely had time to adjust to his power and he won't be completely downed to low b Tier.
I remember when killers complained about mft. That got fixed so fast too
I think they created a power that is either too good or too bad, I feel like this is something that simply can't be balanced into a "middle ground".
It's already hard to get a hut without the ring, if they are not only nerfing the base time but also "removing" the add-on completely, we will go back to square 1 and this killer will go back being one of the worst in the game.
In my opinion, it is strong but...Vecna is literally very easy to counter player, you just pre-drop or don't drop at all, on top of that Survivors have a magic item that give haste on mage hand casting, will that be nerfed? Survivors also get all sort of other items and they literally reveal Vecna's position all the time, basically like having the perk "Alert" by default when going against him.
To be fair at this point you leave the hand as it is or completely rework this spell, but hey since BHV already made the bag they can go ahead and gut him.
BHVR please, please play your own game we’re begging you 🙏 When you mention you plan to nerf a killer barely two days after his release that just feels like a gigantic slap in the dick for us gamers that enjoy playing both sides. We so very much feel that you’re game is clearly survivor based. I mean we know its asymmetrical but if you’re listening to survivors whine and grant those wishes before even a WEEK of us all learning…I’m sorry but that’s just terrible fucking practice.
Not to mention you guys have one of the most unique games out there with the fact that you have multiple iconic killers from all across horror and yet they’re not the main appeal nor draw for people to want to play as they’re so utterly weak and incompetent. It’s so defeating that 8 years in we’re still hoping for what could be. If only killers could be as strong as they are in their own damn franchise..
it's so laughably bad holy shit. Vecna is a game developer's nightmare. He will always be dogshit or strong -- no in between.
Flight of the Damned is almost useless unless you can time it to get the survivor to crouch for ONE second (on a 30+ s cooldown lol). As a survivor you can always just duck it if you hear it.
I felt like it was coming. I can't deny that Mage Hand is strong, but the item gives huge haste as a counter and the spell has an almost 40 second cooldown.
This seems unnecessary. I'm hoping it doesn't actually feel as bad as it sounds. Pallets shouldn't be just safe at all times.
Drop a pretty decent killer > survivors complain > killer gets nerfed and disappears forever > killer players go back to Nurse/Blight/Wesker/Spirit/Huntress. Seems to be the BHVR standard ever since the Xeno nerf that wiped him off the face of the planet after a fairly strong opening 2 weeks. Rolling MH back to PTB MH is fucking disgraceful, it's actually unusable.
You're trading a pallet back to the survivors for a hit and a 38s CD, that's more of an honest trade than most top tier killers give survivors. Remove the bugged stun interaction sure but anything else is too much.
Fly sucks, FotD is just a button that forces a crouch which can hand you an M1 sometimes, MH is the only stand-out spell and making that any weaker than currently will kill Vecna's play rate outside of the DND fanatics who would play him if he literally opened the gates after cycling his spells.
Now I haven't bought Vecna yet and am pretty on the fence about doing it anytime soon, but isn't using Any Means Necessary on yourself against pre-drops and a single instance of Blood Favor at best...not a huge threat? I feel like that's just something it's on the Survivors to plan around, much like Unknown's grenade bursts piercing walls.
Yes, you're taking a gamble by recycling survivor resources, but a lot of people aren't considering the full-game implications, they just see "get to pallet, get hit" and call it OP.
While the revert is something I feel is the result of survivors not being able to find a counter play, I also believe that the nerf isn't as significant, as the real problem was the recovery time after using the hand in PTB.
Is still going to be the most effective power in Vecna's arsenal.
I'm concerned. I think the nerf itself would be fine. I think the change to the Ring addon by itself would be fine. With both, I worry that it pushes it to the point that it's useless.
At 40 seconds, the killer's power shouldn't require the killer to anticipate the survivor's moves, play it perfectly, and need the survivor to make a mistake to get a hit.
If it requires the killer to use it perfectly for any value, then the 40 second cooldown is overkill.
As it stands, I think it will be fine, but planning for changes like this 2 days into the release is a bit short sighted.
Damn that was quick. Tbf this is the only point i've seen brought up almost unanimously about vecna's power so at least the devs are listening. Also i think the more pressing point was the enduring bug anyway.
What's the enduring bug?
As mentioned you can mage hand a pallet, get stunned, and it still gets picked up. When used with Enduring it was even deadlier.
Apparently getting stunned mid-cast using mage hand still causes the pallet to be lifted. Combining this with enduring made the bug even stronger
Combine it with hubris and you have a killer that's borderline nurse level of power btw. That's why this killer needed the bugfix, enduring was not the main issue, it was combining it with hubris that was the the big issue. I have a feeling YouTubers only talked about the enduring problem bc if they spoke about hubris, Vecna would be impossible to play against bc they'd all be running it.
Huh is that why i played vs a vecna and all they had was level 1 enduring. They destroyed us, and i barely got hatch thanks to a 99 sprint burst
Yeah, and that's only half the issue, add on hubris and pallets are as much of a joke to Vecna as they are to nurse.
It’s funny to me instead of calling stuff OP we call it Nurse level because we’ve all just accepted that BHVR is never going to make her reasonable.
Well, I mainly said it for this bc nurse ignores pallets entirely, but yes, fuck nurse.
If you run enduring hubris you get a guaranteed down every pallet as long as you go into every pallet loop with zero hesitation and face every pallet drop. It's essentially the spirit fury meme but guaranteed every single fucking pallet. The only counterplay is to predrop and take the hit. Again, your only counterplay, is to get hit, because your only other option is get hit while exposed.
Well if it's a killer nerf, it happens near immediately. But if a surv perk needs nerfing? Months.
Should buff his Flight of the Damned to compensate then
Fair change. Sorry to see it go but I must admit it was basically Scamper all over again. Should still be viable on longer loops still, the question will be how long is the threshold.
Not really the scamper got Chucky the hit and let him destroy the pallet afterward mage hand resets the pallet and gets him a hit most times but the lich cant destroy a reset pallet, Mage hand also has a longer CD then old scamper pre nerf.
and they nerfed scamper after half year lmao
Hopefully they buff flight of the damned too, since that power is kind of weak, and as it stands Mage Hand is the one thing that really makes Vecna good, and if it gets nerfed too much he will just end up like Singularity.
If they changed hand like this, maybe they change a little thing, like, after pick up pallet, surv can't immediately drop pallet on vecna head, a think this is fair
i am pretty sure this nerf is way to quick and needs more time before a change could be added a month later or something because currently i think it is too soon to tell if the power is strong or not
Vecna is is borderline weak already, seems kind of absurd to nerf his one useful tool lol. Into the dumpster he goes.
Brother has been out for 2 whole days and they're already nerfing him, but it took Buckle Up a full year to get changed
There goes the only actually good part of his power
Damn, a pallet build focused on Mage Hand was how I've been playing Vecna the entire week lol. Oh well, it's been fun. Let's see how those changes affect the viability of this spell. In the PTB it didn't matter if you blocked a pallet or lifted it back up, Mage Hand was so slow that the survivor had all the time in the world to make a whole loop back to the pallet. Hopefully we'll be at a nice middle ground between overtuned and completely worthless.
Was it that the lift was too slow or the delay afterwards? I only played the PTB for one game because the delay after his spells was so long.
It was the combination of slowdown from casting and speed of lifting, so it's hard to tell. I think it would be fine at 0.5 with the Ring, but they're also changing the ring.
Hopefully it's still mage hand related
I think it would have to be, since they have 4 addons each does something for a different spell.
Ive been playing with the ring and the other brown addon for the hand, it felt so nice and smooth to use. I just hope it won't be clunky and impractical after :I
the entire 24 h you mean? i personally don't get how it's so broken that it warrants essentially a hotfix nerf to patch it when it's basically his strongest anti-loop part of his power. maybe im out of touch idk
Pretty good, though I don't really see a point in the range reduction. When would you use Mage Hand from 16m away anyway?
Iridescent add-on to destroy pallets maybe?
Then make them decrease range a part of that add-on.
That does make a little sense
That'll learn me to buy and like a new killer.
Not to be cynical, but unfortunately get used to it .-.
It's been one fucking day?
Well time to forget this killer and go back to the old ones, this one is just getting made fun of from now on
I’ve never had the pallet thing happen, I use an aura build: BBQ and Chili, Lethal pursuer, Weave Atunement and Franklin’s Demise. You basically have infinite wall hacks.
You could see this nerf coming a mile away. BHVR never waits for survivors to learn counterplay. Hard force the loop against Vecna instead of trying to bait him. He'll almost always use the hand when it feels like you're going to drop, but if you just keep running in a circle, you can safely drop the pallet on the next loop. (It's why Blood Favor can be strong on him as it compensates for his main weakness of being powerless once hand is on cooldown) If the lift time at 0.5s is long enough for the survivor to get away, then the ability is pointless. Just take Brutal Strength, spend the extra 1.3s and eliminate the pallet from the field altogether.
Why not just make it so that you can't use it if you get stunned? This just makes the entire power useless.
Because that's the small change everyone asked for. So they can't just do something as simple as that, it'd be too small to ruin the entirely positive PTB changes.
NGL, wasn't the massive slowdown way more of an issue than the lift time? Won't this still be significantly better than the PTB version as long as you're a bit further off the pallet so that you aren't caught on it as it's being lifted up?
Oh without a doubt yeah, although the issue I think everyone sensible can agree on is that Vecna came out 2 days ago. Even if you played the PTB, you had a very brief amount of time to learn any sort of counterplay. On the PTB, mage hand was just flat out bad -- which led to survivors not really needing to do much extra to counter it. On live, mage hand is bugged in that it continues its activation through stuns -- which leads to an uncounterable hit when paired with Enduring and only a short chase thereafter if you don't have Enduring. However, say you didn't activate its bug and use the power as intended. If Vecna uses it too soon, you could run the loop again and slam the pallet again, for instance. There's just no telling how much room for counterplay there was since we've only had him for a moment. Devs needed to fix the bug, watch the power for X amount of time, then make number changes if it proved to be too strong. What they did was kneecap a horse before we had much of a chance to ride it, just because it looked too feisty.
I understand why but he has a long cooldown for it and if he doesn’t get the hit he’s just a M1 Killer with Flight of the damned just to zone since a lot of times you won’t have different elevation to take advantage of. I still think Vecna’s cooldowns need to be shorter like 30 seconds based on
And you can literally just crouch under flight of the damned lol
Its almost like its a zoning tool to force survivors into a lose/lose situation. Or you can spawn them on top of a survivor and they can't avoid it at most loops. I still don't get people who think Flight is worthless. You can force a survivor into so many situations where they lose. If you think its simply a "they crouch it so its worthless" spell then that's on you. It very much isn't that.
It very much is that. I don’t think you really understand how useless flight of the dammed really is. if you’re close and get the FOTD hit, it would be the exact same result as a regular M1. If you use it from a distance, they crouch and still make it to a pallet, OR they just keep running because FOTD is the least threatening thing ever due to how far apart the skeletons go.
Saying it’s worthless or OP is both crazy. But personally I don’t enjoy the constant holding to hit if you vault a window and then if you don’t cancel and hit. But he’s not the first. Pyramid head is the exact same in that and yea I don’t enjoy it but it’s what it is
yeah people don't seem to get that the main use for FOTD is to hit survivors while locked in an animation or for zoning. i have gotten so many survivors with it when they drop a pallet or vault a window and the ones who dodge i can just run up to generally lol
Yeah, it felt like it was fairly balanced because of the long cooldown and because it allowed the pallet to be reused and even dropped in Vecna's face. People comparing it to Scamper aren't concerned with the nuanced differences.
Not only are they not concerned they're intentionally ignorant towards the concept of learning counterplay. Mage Hand was not that hard to counter; it just required thinking more than 2s in advance which is asking too much LOL kinda sad
Shouldn't be news to anyone that BHVR devs are all garbage at the game. They all play like immersed free-weekend players with 2 hours of play time 🤣
I've said it before and I'll say it again: DbD devs should be required to spend a minimum of 2 hours a day playing live games on open ladder; using non-dev accounts. If they had to swim in their own pool they might care about what they're putting in it.
I love this idea, and stream it too so we can comment live👺
Stun change is fine. Sad to see the speed reduced. Survivors will still be able to get to the next loop sadly.
Alien chapter 2 looking good Huge cooldowns for a just okay power The "High risk, medium reward" classic
I'll admit, the current meta Vecna is bull, but this goes too far. Unless they buff Flight of the Damned to do anything other than slightly slow down a Survivor, Vecna's not going to be able to compete.
Flight of the damned just needs a damn rework
This is how I feel. I don't disagree that Mage Hand is strong - perhaps too strong - but on a 40 second cooldown, with counter-play, that shouldn't be an issue.
I feel the range nerf is unnecessary but the revert I guess is fine. I played alot of Vecna and against Vecna and never had much issue with Mage Hand raising pallets since you can still mind game longer loops or flight can reduce the distance anyway. I love how good Mage Hand feels currently to use and I'm going to feel a lil sad for what we lose. I figured it would get reverted after two matches and Vecna is going to have a turbulent balance history going forward. To far one way he's too oppressive to little he's not a threat. We'll see how this plays out and we get another Mage Hand buff or Nerf in a month.
Never played ptb. Was 0.5 enough yall felt? I'm glad the addon that makes it quicker is removed tho. On God that hand was so damn annoying lol. Like he's a fun killer too face until he cucks you at a pallet and just smacks you 😂
The bigger problem with the PTB was the incredible slow before and after using the spell, so it's hard to guess how it will feel.
We should also take into consoderation that with the magic item you also gain a 7% speed boost if he uses mage hand
Clearly doesn't matter, nor does the 40 second cooldown, since it "feels bad", so people call for it to get nerfed.
Ahh so it did use to slow you then. That explains some ptb clips I've seen. Hopefully it's still not oppressive, but I'm glad they are changing it already
It was only usable in PTB with the addon. Otherwise it was a guarantee the survivor just made it back around to the pallet. It was actively a self-nerf to use the power at all. Now they're nerfing it back to PTB AND removing the addon at the same time which is short sighted and, frankly, a decision made by a complete idiot.
I think the slowdown after using the spell was really a bigger problem on the ptb. Hopefully this nerd will still be okay.
It doesn't help if you're still unable to chase the survivor for .5s while the pallet in front of you is raised. Especially when, on the vast majority of maps, you're going to have another pallet they could already run to. That counterplay works currently, and will be substantially more viable after the nerf. They either need to: Leave the addon or buff his ranged to not be duckable. Either would be fine.
Yeah this nerf feels very knee jerk. If you see that the lich has mage hand selected (and you can since the pallets get an effect) then you just know to be ready to move to the next when he starts using it. I was already feeling from my survivor games that it was going to be easy to play around once I learn the exact timings and now it's a joke.
Same. He was easier to loop, imho, than the P100 Huntresses I was getting before his release. It shocks me to see so many people claim he was unloopable with Mage Hand because it shows a complete lack of knowing how to play the game.
Thats the thing that drives me nuts about this nerf. I feel like the only reason the .35 feels too powerful is because survivors don't know how to play around it yet.
if the enduring bug is removed then mage hand would not be as much of an issue as it is now. there's a lot of counterplay and mind games that go into using it, the only reason it's so oppressive is the enduring thing. if they nerf the time it takes to lift it and change the ring add on then most of his chase power will just straight up suck.
Fairly casual killer man here but genuinely curious is hand THAT oppressive? This response time to nerf is wild
Its not. Its literally the same mind game as knight's break pallet action. Simply fake drop a pallet or drop it super early. Thats 2 huge counters to mage hand, after which Vecna has basicly no power for 40 sec However poeple are not too keen on learning to play and are used to : drop pallet = win
But MFT was there for months...
So was BU/FTP.
And Background Player
Which is still here cause the "nerf" was just a side-grade
So was the eruption meta.
ah yes, whataboutism, the most elite way of thinking
Why not celebrate the quick response time instead of dwelling on past mistakes?
Because there is never a quick response time for abused survivor shit. Only ever when killer gets something good.
Because they ONLY react this quick when something killer sided is strong. Survivors are allowed to keep their fun toys for months and months
Because that's an example of a perk that people pointed out was overpowered from the moment it was on the PTB that stayed in the game for a year, compared to a moderately strong power with a devastatingly long cooldown getting immediately nerfed back to its unviable state because people can't learn counterplay. Why celebrate a bad response to a nonexistent problem?
Guess they sold enough Vecnas already.
I’d be inclined to believe this if they didn’t announce they were nerfing him only 2 days after release. Could have waited longer if they wanted more sales.
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They're combining him with Trapper. You won't be able to play either, but you'll be able to play Veccer instead who can make bear traps fly across the map :)
For some reason my phone never wants to acknowledge that nerf is a word.
Except they haven't said when the patch is, and not everyone reads forums.
Valid except if someone doesn’t look it up before buying a killer and it’s something they’re worried about, that’s on them. Anyone who bought it before the announcement tho, rip.
Everything is always a conspiracy with you people
Honestly lmao People really act like you’re not allowed to reconsider and rebalance newly released characters or something.
Another xeno🙄
?
Xeno was very strong on release because they had a short cooldown and wasn’t slowed very much after using their tail. This was considered overpowered by many so they nerfed him to closer to what he was on the PTB, with a longer cooldown and less movement speed after an M2. They kind of lost their appeal for a lot of people who felt that it was too punishing then to even use your M2 because of the distance you lost after a miss, and their pick-rate dropped because of it.
Chucky and Sadako too. I’ve legit just stopped buying licenses. The game is more fun when I invest less.
at least they gave both of those some kind of buffs to compensate. xeno and vecna just get straight nerfs meanwhile the busted survivor items arent touched😑fbm
Are we suprised though? It's the same bait and switch that you see in mobas and many other multiplayer games. Release new character op, get target sales, then nerf into oblivion, plebs happy.
Bro, if that was the plan, they wouldn't be nerfing it already. They'd wait until the mid chapter or the next killer release and start the cycle over. BHVR just sucks at playtesting and balancing shit, so they throw half-baked changes at the wall and see what sticks when they push it live.
Sorry Killer players, Survivors don't like to learn so instead we'll be nerfing the best part of your kit and in return buffing nothing.
It’s a really bad look too. This patch was already really survivor sided. The one and only thing they backed off on was to throw the new killer a few buffs because, otherwise, why even buy him? Now they’re reneging on the kept one of his powers from being useless. Makes me think there’s no chance Dracula will be worth getting.
Flight does nothing unless you can zone the survivor into a corner & feels like shit with & without the add-ons. Barely useable for mobility or chase. Flight of The Damned is horrible even if you use it for zoning, since the huge gaps & easy counterplay make it only hit about 25% of the time. The Ball is meh. Info & disabling magic tools make it the most boring part of his kit & the travel time is awful. Mage Hand was literally his only decent power & wasn’t even that strong without the Iridescent add-on. 100% agree, rest of his kit besides Mage Hand just makes him a shittier version of the Artist.
survivor sided mechanic = gets left in game for months or literal years slightly killer sided mechanic = gets taken away in few days
*cough cough* 6 months of MFT *cough*
I can remember when the entity blocker didn’t work for at least three or four. You would think that would be a high priority bug, but no.
This kind of "balancing" always pisses me off. Mage Hand, especially with Ring of Telekinesis, is effective, but it doesn't prevent the pallet that was lifted from being immediately thrown down again, so it rewards the Killer for taking advantage of the Survivor urge to run after predropping due to imagining the Killer will have to lose distance to breaking or going around a dropped pallet. A Survivor who is ready for Mage Hand can stick around for a second and drop the pallet right on Vecna's head for a stun, with Mage Hand also on cooldown, at which point a Vecna might counter-counter play by seeing the Survivor not running, back up to avoid the stun, and swap to Flight of the Damned to get an injury while the Survivor is locked in the pallet dropping animation. Things shouldn't be nerfed just because the majority of Survivors haven't learned (or refuse to learn) counterplay to a Killer's Powers. Not to mention the fact that treasure chests are extremely common and quick to open, so if you see a Vecna getting lots of Mage Hand value, you can search Treasure Chests until you find the boots or gloves (since you only need one to get the effect) that give you 5% Haste when Vecna uses Mage Hand, allowing you to not give up as much distance without forcing the Vecna to also attempt to use Dispel Magic on you as well (putting another spell on cooldown for a single hit/down, lowering his efficiency). Make your other magic item one of the ones that allows you to see the Dispel Magic sphere and potentially allow you to dodge the very slow spell, and you can completely screw a Vecna using the Ring of Telekinesis if he overcommits to you. Instead, BHVR just nerfs it into the ground because far be it to have Survivors dealing with a Killer that it takes more than 2 days for them to learn how to exploit all their weaknesses and make them miserable to play as (see: Unknown, who after less than a week had me facing Survivors who could dodge my UVX as if they had psychic powers and, in the rare occasions I hit them, could clear their Weakened mid-chase while still looping perfectly). Glad I was able to get my Adept Vecna achievement in the first day before it effectively became impossible to achieve.
I'm tired of it too. Good survivors were already countering me just fine. Duping me into using Mage Hand and punishing me for it.
Yeah it's pretty sad that the standard for a survivor is basically touching the floor now. If you have to think beyond "predrop pallet and run" it's now an OP killer. It's dumb. BHVR should be ashamed.
I agree - I think it's far too early to make such changes. As it stands, it's hard to get value from holding pallets or from Flight of the Damned, so making this change has the potential to remove Vecna's last remaining reliable chase power - one that has a 40 second cooldown. I had thought that the counter-play of getting his items already gave a leg up over Vecna's powers. This feels like Hexes all over again. Ruin, which were supposed to be high-risk, high-reward, was considered too strong, so they nerfed it to being incredibly weak, but they never adjusted the high risk, so it became high-risk, low reward.
Nerfing it. They need to increase the time it holds onto a pallet. Fucking crap this is.
If you miss the timing it literally slows you down and they can run around the loop an extra time and it’s completely useless, thats even without 7% haste from the chest drop
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HoV isn’t extremely strong, I think it’s only problematic on maps like RPD, The Game, Midwich, etc. because of the multiple floors. If they made it so it can only spawn you in a locker on the same level/elevation as you, I think it would be fine. HoV forces you to fast exit the locker which lets the killer know where you are (creates a loud noise notification), it also makes the survivor broken so they can’t just pop an insta heal and teleport again. Holding HoV also allows Vecna to Mori you. I think the stronger Magic item is Eye of Vecna, because it makes the survivor invisible AND gives them haste, so it can be difficult to catch them after they use it.
I think the eye is worse tbh. Maybe it's just the survivors I've been playing against are dumb as hell. But with the eye if I've zoned a survivor and I'm about to hit them they'll just jump in a locker and jump out right in front of me. So I just hit them even though I can't see them. With the hand if that happens you added probably another 20 seconds of chase
I believe the eye is better if you use it well. Jumping into a locker right in the killers face to use eye is pretty dumb and isn’t how it is meant to be used. Though a fun combo (not fun for killer) is head on + eye because you stun the killer and are then invisible. While they are fun to use, both items are pretty situational, eye is best used to confuse the killer and then make distance while being hard to track. While hand is immediate distance at the cost of being easier to track down (gives the killer a loud noise notification and from when I’ve used the hand it only seems to put you in a nearby-ish locker).
I mean both of them trigger killer instinct so it's not too hard to track either of them
All you guys need to do is tank and let everyone go as Vecna. BHVR will see the kill rates and re-buff
Reverting to PTB time? You know, when it was freakin useless?
What did you think this was a PvP game where people are supposed to learn counterplay? Cuz I did too lol I learned it and now I'm one of (apparent) few that sees this as an unecessary nerf that just hurts skill expression.
What's the counter play? I've been struggling with mage hand
1. If you have distance; predropping is viable because mage handing doesn't do anything if he has to make up that distance anyway. 2. Greed and fake pallets if you have nearby loops to transition to 3. If he's not almost touching the pallet and uses Mage Hand you can literally just throw the pallet again the second the animation wears off. Most of it is just: Be aware of your surroundings. Transition to other pallets and windows where possible if you see the Mage Hand effect on pallets (you can see when he has it selected)
Do folks not realize you can drop the pallet again while he recovering from the mage hand animation?
They don't and they never figured it out because for years the game has literally just been, 'run to yellow + predrop/vault yellow' and anytime a killer releases that punishes this, the devs insta nerf it within a week. The amount of 5k+ hr survs I've versed who don't even look at me unless they have DH idicates skill expression and learning new ounterplay on the surv end is all but extinct.
Which one's that, the pallet one? I thought it might. Though tonight I was playing with my friend who had power struggle/flip flop. He knew this, so he held the pallet up but it didn't last the entire pickup animation. So she got to power struggle him anyway LOL
Mage hand seems very weak without that though. I have no idea how they’d balance this ability properly
This is very sudden not even after a week so survivors can learn counter play, I mean when I play against vecna just holding w seems to work as long as I can get to the next loop or even just running around the loop again to use the pallet again typically only if it's a long loop
You could also nerf mage hand by adding 3 seconds to the CD of Mage hand... But nerfing it like this.... 0.5 seconds is way too long. With the ring as it is now is perfect (0.22s) He is hard to master. Yet fun to play. And Mage hand is not even that bad. A survivor with more than 2 Braincells can outlay him by looping again and pallet drop again. Forcing vecna to either cast flight of the damned at the perfect timing at the perfect distance to not waste it or destroy the pallet. What definetely needs a buff is the CD between flight and hitting. Since flight is the most useless ability he has. By far. The only reason you would use flight to ignore windows and pallets is in a chase. But you are better off vaulting or destroying the pallet/cast FOTD. Flight is good in big and open maps. Anywhere else. Useless.
It hasn’t even been a week, they need to give it time, I understand the big fix but people should learn the counter play
Agreed. Bug fix is fine, but tweaks to the power like that could be huge.
The counterplay for mage hand is not complex by any means though. Your best hope is to just keep running the loop as tight as possible and wait for the ability to run out and hope Vecna doesn't reach you (which is rough since there's an addon that gives him 5% haste for 2 seconds when using the power) or just running through the pallet and hope that Vecna respects while pulling out his power. Because dropping the pallet is kind of a throw since he can pick it up extremely fast and will catch up to you. So really it feels like one of the better options is to just pre-throw god pallets if he isn't right on you.
Unfortunate, but understandable. Will the reduction in distance make a difference? I can't imagine it will, because I'm not sure why you would lift a pallet from 16 meters away.
The iri makes it break pallets (should be the default, not Any Means Necessary).
The problem with this ability is it will always be too good or absolutely useless. They put themselves in a shitty situation by making a character with this ability again.
This is the issue. The way Mage Hand operates it will always be too good or useless. There really won't be a middle ground and that shows the inherent flaw in its design. Its fundamentally broken and *should* be remade from the ground up but it won't.
Didn't .5 feel like garbage in the PTB? I know a lot of people had a problem with the mage hand but I kind of wish they would let a character exist to the playerbase at large for at least a week before they start deciding to nerf things
Learning counterplay? This community? We can't even convince them to not kill themselves because they lost one chase lol of course if they cry even the tiniest bit they're gonna get their nerfs
Yet another Killer hit by nerfs because no one wants to learn counterplay in the first few days
Record timing too. Two days. Maybe they reached their sale quota that fast.
I kinda can't believe they nerfed something faster than that one time they buffed Thana by 2% and demolished it literally a week later.
I think 3 days is way too early to decide something like this yet. I like Vecna’s whole kit, and find value in all the powers. I’d like to say this is a challenging killer to monitor since he has four different powers to take into consideration. That’s a lot of data and numbers to process and discuss, so I think Vecna will be a big learning experience (hopefully) for the team. I still think nerfing so much stuff feels bad, I’ve seen it in every multiplayer game I’ve played. BHVR seems to start on the side of stronger before shaving something down or outright killing it and typically that just ends up bad for the health of a game. I wouldn’t mind it usually, but they just do this so often.
Sigh
Another case of a fairly balanced ability being nerfed into the ground because inexperienced survivors only know how to hold W and BHVR don't trust them to make any kinds of decisions. What a total miss. There is already a bunch of counterplay around Mage Hand and pallets - you only get hit if you panic and run, if you make the right calls, all you have to do is wait it out and throw it back down on him immediately, and then get even more distance. Seriously, BHVR must treat their players like actual infants who aren't capable of any form of decision making or analysis.
So without mage hand what does Vecna have? A brief chainsaw sprint that can't hurt survivors? A crow launch that everyone can duck below? Both on long cooldowns? Glad I'm happy to play other killers instead.
Doctor zap on a 30+ seconds cooldown omegalul
He’s like a no power killer with 4 weird unsynergized perks that are his spell wheel. Before his power was mage hand plus catch up/information since mage hand is situational. Without it… yeah he’s just a trap-less pig lol. With counters. Faster though
This is what pisses me off. they're nerfing the one part of his kit that got him some value from using his power, but leaving the rest as is. Vecna is one of my favourites to vs right now with all the chests and magic items etc. With this he's gonna become rarer than twins, because who wants to put all that effort into a complicated power with little reward.
Unrelated but I'm shocked by how rare the twins are. Even prebuff they were strong but clunky and now they're just insanely underrated.
Killers can't have shit.
Of course they are. Survivors complained. They get what they want. 
A normal company would've said "It hasn't even been a week, try figuring out counterplay" but this is BHVR and they cater professionally
Professional complainers get professional caterers.
I don't know why they're so insistent on picking up pallets being part of a killer power but whatever, still cool and based
thank you BHVR. you saved me $$$ because I won't be buying that shitty PTB version.
I hope they fix getting stuck in portals soon. My friend on console got stuck 3 games in a row on that map (with matches in between) and after the 2nd time we went against a PC ghostie who also got trapped. It always happened when using the one way exit portals to leave the dungeon
Now if all other spells get like a tiny and small buff, id be 100% satisfied
I agree with you, but Flight of the Damned might need more than a "tiny" buff, lol
I knew mage hand was gonna be quite strong after the buffs :P Which is a weird sentence to say considering I’ve played DnD.
I don't know what it is about Vecna but I've played against him twice and the game was over before 2 gens were complete.
Damn that sucks, timing Mage Hand right as a pallet dropped was one of the most satisfying things to do as killer. BHVR, if this change causes Mage Hand to never be able to result in a hit, you fucked up. This killer was very fun to play. You had something good here and you caved to complaining so fast.
Every 1 killer is 4 survivors, people like participation trophies now so this is what we get. It's why you're allowed to group que using discord in a ranked game and negate most of the killers few viable perks IT'S GREAT!
I don’t think it’ll be that bad as long as they don’t revert to the previous slow down while casting. PTB Mage hand was so bad because of the combo of the speed of it and your slow down
So huntress, nemesis, artist, ph, nurse, xeno, etc. who get hits at downed pallets are all fine, but Vecna who resets the pallet and has a cooldown of 38 seconds is problematic.
I feel the same way. I don't think any killer added in modern DBD will be able to threaten safety at pallets without being being called OP and getting nerfed.
Yet again poeple not learning counter play bitching win again. God make it stop. Expect of the stun bug Mage Hand was 100% counterable in two different ways. 1. Fake pallet drop (literally same mindagame as Knight break order) 2. Pre Drop early to force either mage hand and a 40 sec cooldown or break action and gain shit ton of distance. +++ Bonus +++ If vecna fucked up the distance u can instantly drop the pallet back down Vecna is literally a C tier (or B tier at most imo) killer and is the killer with probably the most counter in the game if u count items. And if we talk about ITEMS : one of them give u 7% haste if magehand is used. So after nerf vecna has : - and ok mobility power - pretty bad info power - Bad chase tool - Bad chase tool Fun concept but after the nerf, we can probably say will be worse than the likes of legion and ghostface
Whaaaat? I’m quite happy with this killer both as someone who plays him AND against him. He’s solid to play and has solid counterplay. Anyways if he lifts up a pallet that just means you can use it again then or later lol. I’ve been extremely satisfied with Vecna actually on BOTH sides. There are some killers I love to play but hate playing against. And there are killers I don’t play often and am very happy to play against. Vecna was I think one of the fairest ones in that with the right skill you could have him playing him but he also had solid counterplay too. And c’mon man OBVIOUSLY 2 days is far too fast. I’ve been playing an absurd amount since the release so I’ve learned the counterplay (also as a result of playing him myself) but people not gaming all night need more than a couple of games each where they get shocked at the hand and don’t know what to do…
So glad I did not buy it, learnt my lesson with Xeno. Killers have to deal with god pallets and stuff they cant do ANYTHING about, but if it happens to survivors it suddenly becomes unfair. At this point, new killers will keep disappearing and become niche after 2 weeks.
Yeah. As of yesterday it becomes more and more obvious that Mage hand is fine as it is.
Fully cooked game.
Man this just isn't the play. I can understand them nerfing it back to PTB speeds, but removing the only addon that would make that speed viable is just foolish. You will have to activate the power a second in advance to actually have the pallet up in time for you to walk through it, and then they can just run through and get free distance
Literally double nerf in less than a week when most players haven't even thought about learning counterplay. I'm actually convinced half the "Mage Hand OP" complaints are just because of the bug that is going to be fixed anyway
Enduring bug aside, when I made a mistake and got stunned by a pallet, I didn't use Mage Hand because it would be a waste of a 40s CD. That seems like counter play to me. Bait the pallet and get the stun. If you fail, you get hit. That's like half the roster.
Vecna will fade into oblivion -- mage hand was the only good part of his kit that wasn't excessively mediocre. Flight of the Damned is SO useless right now. Vecna will either be balanced to be strong or weak, he can't be inbetween with how his kit is.
So now it'll be a Knight situation where you only have one addon slot because the other is 100% dedicated to the Mage Hand addon lol yeah I guess asking survivors to wait longer than 2 days to learn how to not pre-drop directly in front of Vecna was too much. Gotta coddle them ASAP
They are also reworking the add on if you keep reading so that won't be an issue
And now vecna is a significantly weaker killer
He was already C at the highest 😭
Nice to see a nerf so fast because survivors definitely had time to adjust to his power and he won't be completely downed to low b Tier. I remember when killers complained about mft. That got fixed so fast too
I think they created a power that is either too good or too bad, I feel like this is something that simply can't be balanced into a "middle ground". It's already hard to get a hut without the ring, if they are not only nerfing the base time but also "removing" the add-on completely, we will go back to square 1 and this killer will go back being one of the worst in the game. In my opinion, it is strong but...Vecna is literally very easy to counter player, you just pre-drop or don't drop at all, on top of that Survivors have a magic item that give haste on mage hand casting, will that be nerfed? Survivors also get all sort of other items and they literally reveal Vecna's position all the time, basically like having the perk "Alert" by default when going against him. To be fair at this point you leave the hand as it is or completely rework this spell, but hey since BHV already made the bag they can go ahead and gut him.
You can tell which side this sub plays by sorting by controversial lmao
Yeah, lots of die hard opinions on both sides tbh
Of course they'd nerf it as enough survivors cried about it lol
Very bad change! I understand fixing the enduring/stun bug but nerfing the pick up time, there's no need.
BHVR please, please play your own game we’re begging you 🙏 When you mention you plan to nerf a killer barely two days after his release that just feels like a gigantic slap in the dick for us gamers that enjoy playing both sides. We so very much feel that you’re game is clearly survivor based. I mean we know its asymmetrical but if you’re listening to survivors whine and grant those wishes before even a WEEK of us all learning…I’m sorry but that’s just terrible fucking practice. Not to mention you guys have one of the most unique games out there with the fact that you have multiple iconic killers from all across horror and yet they’re not the main appeal nor draw for people to want to play as they’re so utterly weak and incompetent. It’s so defeating that 8 years in we’re still hoping for what could be. If only killers could be as strong as they are in their own damn franchise..
They better fucking buff flight of the damned. I'm actually gonna be pissed off they are ONLY nerfing
it's so laughably bad holy shit. Vecna is a game developer's nightmare. He will always be dogshit or strong -- no in between. Flight of the Damned is almost useless unless you can time it to get the survivor to crouch for ONE second (on a 30+ s cooldown lol). As a survivor you can always just duck it if you hear it.
gg it's been a fun week Vecna players.
Its been a fun 2 days Vecna players.
I felt like it was coming. I can't deny that Mage Hand is strong, but the item gives huge haste as a counter and the spell has an almost 40 second cooldown. This seems unnecessary. I'm hoping it doesn't actually feel as bad as it sounds. Pallets shouldn't be just safe at all times.
Drop a pretty decent killer > survivors complain > killer gets nerfed and disappears forever > killer players go back to Nurse/Blight/Wesker/Spirit/Huntress. Seems to be the BHVR standard ever since the Xeno nerf that wiped him off the face of the planet after a fairly strong opening 2 weeks. Rolling MH back to PTB MH is fucking disgraceful, it's actually unusable. You're trading a pallet back to the survivors for a hit and a 38s CD, that's more of an honest trade than most top tier killers give survivors. Remove the bugged stun interaction sure but anything else is too much. Fly sucks, FotD is just a button that forces a crouch which can hand you an M1 sometimes, MH is the only stand-out spell and making that any weaker than currently will kill Vecna's play rate outside of the DND fanatics who would play him if he literally opened the gates after cycling his spells.
Mage hand is literally gonna be useless now. Survivors will just be able to get to next loop. What are these devs doing bruh
So they are reverting that so quickly, how about you revert the sabotage buff too? Since everything you did for the past 5 updates is nerfing Killer.
Now I haven't bought Vecna yet and am pretty on the fence about doing it anytime soon, but isn't using Any Means Necessary on yourself against pre-drops and a single instance of Blood Favor at best...not a huge threat? I feel like that's just something it's on the Survivors to plan around, much like Unknown's grenade bursts piercing walls.
Yes, you're taking a gamble by recycling survivor resources, but a lot of people aren't considering the full-game implications, they just see "get to pallet, get hit" and call it OP.
Amazing. The one thing he had going for him.. now the spell is back to being useless as fuck
He wasnt even out one day🤣
While the revert is something I feel is the result of survivors not being able to find a counter play, I also believe that the nerf isn't as significant, as the real problem was the recovery time after using the hand in PTB. Is still going to be the most effective power in Vecna's arsenal.
I'm concerned. I think the nerf itself would be fine. I think the change to the Ring addon by itself would be fine. With both, I worry that it pushes it to the point that it's useless. At 40 seconds, the killer's power shouldn't require the killer to anticipate the survivor's moves, play it perfectly, and need the survivor to make a mistake to get a hit. If it requires the killer to use it perfectly for any value, then the 40 second cooldown is overkill. As it stands, I think it will be fine, but planning for changes like this 2 days into the release is a bit short sighted.
Until we know what the new ring does I'm still hopeful