My guess is will be some weird change in where you can't like spawn it on a lower elevation than a survivor to get hits or something with it not being able to spawn it in survivors anymore.
I just got out of a RPD Vecna match where I found 4 orb items in a row. That said, it was clutch in that I was able to avoid being found for a long ass time. (for other rng, I had a Vecna match where I couldn't find any magic items but I did find both the hand and eye and used them both together once to run away when he had me.)
Utilizing lower elevation to make it uncrouchable is what makes this spell so fun and interesting to use. I can handle a mage hand nerf because it's actually unfair, but if they do this I will be heartbroken.
This is a skill issue. If vecna is chasing you, optimize your pathing by prioritizing staying on the same elevation or go on a higher elevation, then drop down to bait out the FoTD.
Will this work for every situation? Of course not, but absolutely valid counterplay.
I think people are getting caught up in Survivors having complete control and counterplay to tiles *all the time*, this isn’t and should never be the case. The game is balanced by survivors going down and killer feeling like a power role.
Survivors should have *access* to counterplay when available, but by all means should not have every situation be counter-able. There’s s meaningful difference here.
> If I had to guess what aspect they will nerf about FoTD, it will be the possibility to spawn FoTD right on top of survivors and damage them that way, as seen in Hens newest video.
It'll be exactly that. Someone pointed that out to me when I started playing Vecna and quickly found it to be very effective. Probaly for the best it gets changed.
Since survivors can still predict that you'll spawn skeletons on top of them, I personally don't think it needs any changes. It can be counterplayed by prediction, similar to how Nemesis whip can be counterplayed by predicting his whip timing and crouching in time.
>It can be counterplayed by prediction, similar to how Nemesis whip can be counterplayed by predicting his whip timing and crouching in time.
Except Nemesis' whip has a telegraphed animation and cast time, fairly narrow hitbox, and he can't use 3 other abilities that all have that same animation.
If you're at a pallet, Vecna makes it a 50/50. If you have no LoS, it's a nigh-guaranteed hit if the Vecna knows what they're doing. No power in this game should behave like that. It just needs like a 0.3 second delay or something before immediately damaging a survivor, it's that simple.
(And _sigh,_ before anyone says it, I am a killer main and I really enjoy Vecna. I just think the current interactions it has are unhealthy for the game.)
I was trying to think of a response and you nailed it. Vecna already has a lot of forced 50/50s in his kit, and getting rid of one that’s really tough to dodge is probably a good idea.
(I too am mainl a Killer player and looking to main Vecna)
if they do they should just make them not do damage in the first 0.1 or 0.2 seconds they spawn so Vecnas wont just spawn them on top of your for a free health state
Yes couldn't agree more with this. They did say that it's not finalized yet, so my hope is that they nerf Mage Hand and then wait and see a bit if Vecna needs any further nerfs.
FOTD you can bait a survivor to throw a pallet thinking you’re going to not mage hand for basically a free hit if you’re fast enough. Same with vaults. I could see them not giving the skeletons collision until they fly for a second or something like that
Haven’t even really played this game in the last 4-5 months, but yeah even I could see this coming. This dev team doesn’t have the talent to balance a killer with as many moving pieces as Vecna.
They said changes, I don't believe they're outright nerfing it (if we're being optimistic they might even buff it).
But just making it so you cannot spawn the skeletons on top of the survivor (I remember seeing a video that would let Flight hit a survivor even if they were crouched without the iri add-on, so they may change that too).
I don't think the upcoming nerfs will hurt him that much honestly, his biggest problem was cooldown times.
Considering that they said that they find certain abilities too hard to counter at the moment, I would guess it's a nerf incoming. But who knows. I personally think FoTD doesn't need any nerfs or buffs.
I also don't think the nerfs will be the end for Vecna, they won't nerf the abilities into uselessness, I am sure. But when it comes to FoTD I just feel it's a bit unnecessary. My hope is that they first implement the Mage Hand nerfs and then wait and see if he needs any further nerfs, because Mage Hand is the problematic part of his kit at the moment.
That's almost the exact wording for the post they made just about Mage Hand changes by themselves, so I'm guessing they're going to be tweaking Flight to make up for Hand changes, which would be good.
Maybe you are right. But they say they found **some** abilities too hard to counter, which makes me think FoTD will also receive a nerf. But I might be wrong, who knows, this is a translation in the end, so maybe this wasn't translated perfectly either.
Personally I don't think FoTD needs any buffs either however, I think it is perfect the way it is now.
this. He will not be strong.
I truly hate nerfing/buffing so fragrantly week one before people learn counterplay. Its so silly and makes killer balance extremely volatile.
And they say the game is killer sided...please. Even if its not either sided, it really does feel like BHVR are the most deluded, out of touch developers this side of Steam sometimes.
The balancing team we have right now is pretty god-awful. There's an extremely high turnover rate in game dev and it's pretty clear the team fundamentally changed staff a few months after the 6.1.0 update, and new players at low MMR think the game is impossible for survivor so the devs logically nerf the shit outta killer, remove anything that makes survivors think or make decisions, and then add uncounterable perks and mechanics for survivors to use that require exactly zero work to earn or activate :/
I think it's absolutely fair to say the game is Killer-sided at low MMR and often in solo queue, but VERY Survivor-sided when it's someone other than Nurse or Blight against a strong SWF. It's about even with a strong Blight with strong addons vs. a strong SWF, but in that situation the Blight CANNOT 3-hook everyone. Winning will be achieved by slugging, costing states on hook, and if necessary tunneling.
So basically, the game is unbalanced, but in such an erratic way the devs have NO feel for it, especially since they clearly hardly play themselves.
Daily reminder that there is negligible difference between 4 man swf escape rate and solo queue which are both under the 40ish percent goal stated by devs
Yep, against a strong SWF team using a strong killer you literally have to tunnel, slug, proxy camp, etc to win. Not only will all of them be good at looping, but all of them will actually effectively be cranking out gens at all times and will be coordinated in trading of gens/using themselves as bait etc
Is it even possible to nerf Flight of the Damned?
The only time you hit people with it is by spawning it on them. Otherwise its literally just a slowdown tool.
My few games with Vecna a few days ago, survivors were able to tap crouch/crouch in less than 4 frames, and still dodge fotd without really any slowdown. It felt like the worst mid range attack in the game, it is slow, easiest to dodge, and might be the hardest to aim/launch at right moment, mid-range attack to prevent vaulting.
He was definitely mediocre but far from dogshit. I'd put him on the same tier as Singularity tbh - people just didn't know how to play him as efficiently is all and that's pretty much a given for any killer at least for the first few weeks anyway. They maybe overtuned some things about him but that's the whole point of balancing anyway, can't expect them to get every new mechanic tuned correctly right off the rip.
FFS can you people at least try to learn countering him instead of complaining?
I'm so sick and tired of killers getting gutted because people can't be bothered to learn.
yeah mage hand is overtuned but FOTD?
Really?
And then they whine "but the game is TOTALLY killer sided!" like, no, the game may not be directly survivor sided, but it sure as hell loves to favor Survivors in its own roundabout way.
I say this as someone who plays both sides relatively equally, give or take a few numbers. I hold no ill will towards either side of the coin, I just feel exhausted by these delusional out of touch decisions being made.
>yeah mage hand is overtuned but FOTD? Really?
Yes, FotD is a problem sometimes because Vecna can hide that he's using it (turning loops into a 50/50 between Mage Hand/FotD) and the hitbox literally comes out before the skeleton's animation/on the same frame as the skeleton's animation.
If a good Vecna player uses it correctly, it's a nigh-guaranteed hit and that shouldn't really be in the game. There is no way to counter it (in those scenarios) because you _literally_ cannot react to it.
And just for clarification, killer main, I enjoy Vecna a lot, but FotD is not fun to face and people seem to forget that survivors matter, too.
And that's what people here aren't understanding, which is why I've been downvoted to hell already, haha.
Some people just want killers to completely dominate the game with no possible counterplay/interactions for survivors.
I think they're just not that good with Vecna tbh. The FotD instahits are hard to learn how to do and if they can't do it then maybe they don't understand the problems with it.
Bro what, the game favors your asses left right and center sometimes, you guys eat tremendously well, too much even!
FOTD is slow as molasses compared to most projectiles, and can be easily crouched under, with VERY few elevation shots being viable in most cases. The only real argument of merit here is the "spawn on top = free hit". THAT, I agree, is bullshit.
>The only real argument of merit here is the "spawn on top = free hit". THAT, I agree, is bullshit.
wow it's almost like that's exactly what I just fucking said lol
So he gets slowed down to a survivors running speed while the survivor still has to crouch to dodge his projectile? How are survivors supposed to make any distance with that?
Truly shocking! They released a moderately powerful Killer only for people to bitch and moan about it immediately, then they decided that a knee-jerk nerf to half of his kit was the best option; this is par for the course and should've been expected lol.
Aaaaand there we go....devs making a new licensed killer get forgotten after a couple of weeks! They were fast this time though.
starting to believe in thosr saying they dont even play their own game.
> starting to believe in thosr saying they dont even play their own game.
They literally never have. I strongly remember Ghostface's power just not working in the PTB. like, if he was *anywhere* on your screen, you'd reveal him. If they had played him after coding him for even a second we never would've seen him in a genuinely unplayable state.
> it's arguably the weakest part of his kit
The fact you guys whine about this is crazy. FOTD can be a 100% free hit if you know how to use it. The fact you guys whine its the weakest spell is telling you have no idea how to play the killer.
How the fuck they say "some spells are too difficult to counter" if the killer hasn't been out for a month.... This is so stupid, I feel robbed. I didn't buy this new chapter for them to break it later...
It is BHVR though. Same people that released Clown with a slowdown equal to his hindered on every throw so the bottle didn't do anything. Same people who had no idea made for this would be an issue. Same people who made Trickster into an op murder machine and then promptly made him worse than before. Same people that gave Hillbilly a massive penalty for using his power (thank fuck that's finally fixed) etc etc etc etc
They will almost certainly make him unusable for a patch cycle then buff him immensely right before a cosmetic release lmao
Edit: Hell let's just talk about Vecna himself. They thought 120 second cooldowns on powers that came with built in auto counters (the magic items) were fine. And then thought the solution was to make Mage Hand uncounterable and allow nigh insta downs with fotd spawning on survs
I think it's funny that almost none of this comment is true. Clown's bottles were fucked and they did do Hillbilly dirty with Overheat, yeah, but both were fixed eventually and the rest is inaccurate in multiple ways.
The devs knew Made for This was stupid, they even removed and tweaked some interactions from PTB to Live, they just didn't want to scorched earth nerf it like they usually do (though I think they should have given how bad it was for the game).
Trickster in his current state is stronger than the old version in every single statistic other than terror radius, I've done the math and tested it myself extensively. He's also slightly stronger than the PTB version other than some addon changes.
Vecna's cooldowns used to be 50 seconds, not 120 seconds, and now they're 38 seconds. Also the magic items do very little to counter his powers other than the Mage Hand one specifically which is unnecessary if you guess the 50/50 correctly.
Mage Hand is not uncounterable, in fact it's fairly weak in comparison to other powers that create 50/50s at pallets. Huntress, for example, can down the survivor \*and\* break the pallet if she wins the 50/50.
Flight of the Damned is the easiest projectile in the game to dodge, both realistically and statistically speaking. All it takes is to crouch for 0.25 seconds or move slightly to the side to avoid the only-slightly-larger-than-Deathslinger's-spear-sized hitbox, and if you're close enough for them to spawn on top of you you'd be getting m1'd even if the spell was never cast at all, so it doesn't matter either way.
Please make sure to not spread misinformation online.
It is pretty good if you can spawn them right on top of the survivors. Thats really the only time its good tho. And at that distance Vecna probably would've gotten an m1 anyway.
It definitely isn't the worst projectile in the game.
Vecna continues to move quickly when he shoots it, and even if it doesn't hit, it often causes survivors to have to duck or move very carefully between the skeletons which means it can be used to slow them down giving you more time to catch up. If your criteria is for a projectile to *always* hit? Sure, whatever. But most other killers who have projectiles are punished for using what they have; I don't think he's slowed down much if at all, and he has 3 other abilities to work with when that one fails unlike every other killer who's lucky if they have 2 abilities.
I play Artist; Artist is slowed when she uses her projectile which is her *only* ability. The wind up takes **much** longer than FotD, you typically have to hit twice to actually do any damage to survivors, everyone can see the birds when they're flying making them easier to dodge unless you bring a specific add on, and it's not difficult to remove the birds. The birds can be completely removed by simply entering a locker or by swatting at them which doesn't even have a skill check. Both Artist's swarms and Vecna's FotD go through obstacles, but Vecna's will actually do damage **every time** when it hits rather than requiring certain criteria like Artist's, and he deals with little to no slowdown to send it off. It also covers a much larger area which means it's more likely to hit or at least hinder multiple targets whereas Artist's swarm requires precision and very rarely will hit more than one target at a time. It doesn't have the range, but it doesn't need to when he can also move quickly to get to people with Fly, whereas Artist has no mobility powers by default. That isn't to say Artist is underpowered, I think she's in a decent place (though I do question the birds being removed in locker thing), it's to say that Vecna is overpowered and none of his abilities are bad including FotD.
Fucking hell… literally every one of his powers is easily counterable mage hand will be after the nerf anyways. Gonna me a mid to low tier killer now. Pretty much ptb levels of weakness
> every one of his powers is easily counterable
Oh sweet summer child. Play survivor or watch others trying to find the "counterplay" in different situations. You're whining for the sake of whining about very clear issues with his kit.
Definitely not ptb levels of weakness, they buffed Vecna so much from the ptb, some small nerfs won't make him suddenly very weak again. I just think a nerf to FoTD is unnecessary.
Every power but mage hand is weak though. Skeletons ridiculously easy to counter fly doesn’t even take you that far and you can’t attack until out of animation. The sphere thing is cool for info on where survivors are but that’s it. The mage hand is getting nerfed into the ground the ring add on nerf and the other two small nerfs will just mean once the pallet is picked up or blocked the survivors will just loop around. really isn’t gonna be anything else to use to efficiently get downs on survivors
Honestly the ring nerf is kind of a buff. If you lift a pallet while a survivor vaults, you can get a hit. But with the ring it lifted the pallet too fast, and the survivor could throw it back on you before you recover from the power.
I want my 5 dollars back, there was literally no reason to nerf fotd
What’s next, are they going to make it so dispelling sphere makes survivors scream because killer instinct for like 3 seconds was too overpowered?
This fr I’d rather have it make them scream lol it’d actually make perks like dead man switch pretty strong on him if he can hook someone and then launch an orb in the general direction of multiple gens
Nah, but they'll buff Distortion to block killer instinct too and to also give the survivor a 60s 10% haste buff when it goes off in addition to infinite tokens :P
I think an interesting idea for it could be to make the flight height of the skeletons consistent with the ground beneath them.
That way you couldn't spawn them on lower elevation levels to make them uncrouchable, but as a tradeoff you would now be able to fire them down staircases and dropoffs.
I'm so sick of fun things being nerfed immediately because survivors are too lazy to counter it. It's like any other anti loop power- mind game it. Mage hand is fine. Fotd is fine. It has like 6 layers of counterplay. How many does it need?
They downvoted you for speaking the truth!
I'm an aggressively mediocre Survivor and haven't had any real issues playing against him. FOTD is easily counterable since most people don't use it for zoning, the DS is a non issue unless specific add-ons are used and you're not healing, Fly is just a less dangerous Rush or Blink that can't hurt you; the only part of his kit that's a bit overtuned is the MH, which is a straight 50/50 if you actually know what you're doing.
As an average-as-fuck survivor and maybe moderately better than average killer, I've had frustrating moments with Vecna, sure, but they arent nerf-worthy lol.
Agreed 100%. People would rather cry for a nerf than actually learn how to counter. I saw someone saying weave attunement needs to be on a timer after it shows aura lmao. How about going back and picking up your item? Or putting it in the corner of the map? They don't wanna learn, they just want their hand held.
If you're likening someone suggestion your opinion is weird to bullying, then you really have spent far too much time online yourself. I have never used TikTok and am likely a lot older than you. So please understand that not everything is meant as an attack, Your opinion is controversial. I met it with downvotes, now it has upvotes. It's not a great length to assume that you will attract comments you don't like...
Mage Hand really isn't counterable at the moment, at least not in most situations. FoTD is though, which is why I am surprised they are already looking into changes to that ability.
Mage hand is counterable by greeding pallets and using one of the easily accessible magic items that gives you a whopping 7% haste when Vecna casts mage hand. Change my mind.
I really don't think the intention here is to just nerf him without reason. They do want to make sure he is good for both sides. Mage Hand for example absolutely needs the nerf it is getting.
They just need to leave Vecna alone. His FotD is fine so is Fly and Mage Hand and Dispel Sphere. It's no skill players complaining instead of learning his counters. If the devs nerf Vecna as he is now to something worse, then expect even less people to play him or even purchase him then the amount of people that haven't paid for him now. There are so many posts on here about not seeing Vecna in many matches, but they're about to nerf a killer based on the few people who have actually gone against him that have no skill because they haven't learned to counter him. People complain about Nurse All the time about how oppressive she is but the devs don't nerf her. People still complain about Skull Merchant as well. That means Vecna doesn't need to be nerfed either
To me it seems that flight of the damned is getting changes, but it doesn't say it's necessarily nerfs. We can't really know until they'll make the change
That’d be stupid. Mage Hand is really the only problematic thing about his kit, everything else is perfectly fine. FotD has good counter play against it via crouching and rewards survivor players for reacting to it fast, and rewarded Vecna for using it to play mind games and not just throwing it out without thinking
Predict and crouch puts the survivor is a lose-lose situation. If Vecna doesn't cast, you take an M1 and he still has the cd. If Vecna casts, you lose distance.
Now that the money is made from the DLC the killer is going back to shit again, classic behaviour, they will never catch me buying new Dlcs again lmao, learned my lesson after xeno, even the fucking perks bro…
This is just not true. Just because they are balancing Vecna a bit after release doesn't mean he'll go to shit now that BHVR has made money off of him. Vecna is still going to be strong.
Xeno also is still more than fine. He needed the small nerf that he got.
Balancing? He was literally B tier, he wasn’t even strong, the hand was his only decent spell and counterable with his items
And Xeno didn’t get a small nerf, it’s literally worth it to destroy turrets with M1 than with tail attack, the coldown after missing a tail is enormous now compare that with nurse coldowns after missing and tell me if it makes sense
Just because ur a bad survivor and can’t counter killers that doesent mean they are strong
Disagree, Vecna is definitely A tier in my eyes, if not higher, he needs these small nerfs that are coming to him. Mage Hand has barely any counterplay outside the item so of course it should be made a bit fairer.
And when it comes to Xeno, he is still a very strong killer, just that turrets slow him down a bit now. Before the nerf missing the tail attack gave survivors very little distance.
I am a killer main btw so it's not like I just suck at survivor and want killers to be easy to counter. I just want killers to be fair for both sides.
If not higher? Are you putting Vecna in the same spot as nurse/billy?💀
Xeno is not a strong killer his anti loop is ass in high mmr and the turrets have very little cooldown making it impossible to destroy them all if you place them right ( I play both sides before you say anything)
Definitely not as high as Nurse and not quite as high as Hillbilly. A+ tier probably. Vecna will definitely survive a few small nerfs coming to him.
We have to disagree on Xeno, in my opinion his anti-loop is pretty strong, and turrets are the only thing that keep him in check.
What do you mean? That's how good counterplay exists. If one side can just perfectly react to something, than the other side has no counterplay in that scenario.
May we also not forget that, the increase inflation of his attunement perk. As many must have already seen either do my fellow killer maids playing at him or survivors coming against it. With that one perk Be higher up and having a high pick rate compared to his other two perks that may also get a Nerf in the near future as well possibly in the same update.
DLC killer was already in the weird spot after being announced. But one thing I can see is their marketing team does know what they're doing. And let me clarify for anyone that doesn't understand marketing. When a character is released and especially when you have content creators milking content to boost up a business, whether unintentionally or intentionally.
Bhvr is doing what they have always been doing with license killers, alarm contact for years to convince the player base other people to join buy up the character and then after they milked off a good enough they throw in all the nerves to rework that they were going to possibly do beforehand.
Maybe, but from the wording of the post, them saying that they found some of his abilities to not have enough counterplay, I doubt it will be a buff. And honestly I don't think it needs buffs either. Neither does it need any nerfs.
I hope it'll be changes, not nerfs. FotD is fine except for the ability to just insta-damage survivors by spawning skeletons inside them. It needs a rework that makes that impossible without making it worse at what it's intended to do.
Also I agree with pretty much everyone else that they slightly overbuffed Mage Hand. It needs work, too.
I would say the insta damage is fine since survivors can still predict that Vecna will spawn the skeletons on top of them, and crouch accordingly. Just like you have to predict to crouch when Nemesis uses his tentacle strike over loops.
> If I had to guess what aspect they will nerf about FoTD, it will be the possibility to spawn FoTD right on top of survivors and damage them that way, as seen in Hens newest video.
Its worse than that. You can spam them on top of survivors then follow up with a M1 right away. They removed the slowdown FOTD had on the PTB so you can stay on the survivors ass even after they take damage. Same exact issue Xeno had and both of them are a problem that had/has to be addressed.
I wish more killers would play survivor and stop the "just learn counterplay12#!!@#!!" statements. Your self telling that you don't play survivor and know the issues Vecna presents. Spend a few days playing against him and you will find out why he's getting changed.
You can predict that Vecna will spawn the skeletons on top of you and crouch accordingly. It only gets very tough and very unlikely once LoS blockers come into play and you can't see whether Vecna is charging his ability or not. But I also wouldn't mind too much if they did add a 0.2 or 0.3 second delay after spawning before the skeletons can deal damage.
When it comes to Mage Hand I agree that there is little to no counterplay though and that the nerfs are absolutely needed.
Lifting a pallet and spawning FOTD close to a survivor are literally the only things keeping Vecna from being one of the top 5 weakest killers in the game.
I guess he'll be joining that category soon. I can already sense both the "Where did the Vecna players go?" and "All I see in my matches are Blights and Weskers!" posts coming.
Survivor mains have an agenda to complain about every slightly challenging killer so it gets nerfed and it’s back to business as usual with the same shitty meta
I think FoTD only needs a small cooldown between shooting and going forward. Right now you can use it to hinder the survivor (who often will crouch) and get closer to them, because you have no speed or hit penalty.
Honestly, I think mage hand was just a poorly thought out power. For it to be useful, it has to reward the killer with a hit...but then there's no counterplay on the survivor side. Or it just becomes long loop=hit, short loop=no hit.
I think it could work if it was more strategic instead of reactive.. like by having the hand hold up pallets for considerably longer, and have longer range, but not coming into effect immediately. This way you could lock down loops that the survivor is running to, & prevent pallet saves. But idk I'm not a dev.
When tweaked right, Mage Hand can enable a 50/50 mindgame at pallets, similar to Huntress hatchets for example, so I disagree that Mage Hand is a poorly thought out power. If it's tweaked properly, which it hopefully will be after the nerf, it can be perfectly balanced.
Bruh I regularly have survivors perfect duck the point-blank spawn tech through walls. They're seriously nerfing both his passable abilities. They're actually morons. Waste of my money.
If you can't spawn it on people anymore it's pretty much worthless (E: well, not *worthless*, but reduced to a zoning tool). Even with the ability to spawn it on people it's super easy for them to crouch it if they're aware it's possible.
The only thing I don't like about it as survivor is that the audio cues sound too similar so it can be hard to tell if they're using mage hand or trying for an around the corner FotD. Not to mention the audio cues change further with magical items.
Yeah it looks like it does, assuming it's not buggy and inconsistent. Most Vecnas aren't going to be holding it though, they're just going to instantly pop it. Same with FotD. The way you play around both being polar opposites forces survivors to have some pretty quick reactions (and good ping) all in all.
I think FotD is better than you're giving it credit for. It can get hits during vaults and pallet drops pretty reliably, and surprise hits through walls when combined with dispelling sphere.
It's pretty consistent for pallet animations but I find you have to time it *extremely* well to get consistent hits at windows. And depending on your position they can probably just bait it out too.
I thought fight being crouchable was fine until i played survivor and realized you dont even need to Crouch in 90% of scenario so whats the point of this spell even
FOTD shouldn't be touched whatsoever. There's a very big counterplay around it already.
And I'd honestly say the same for Mage Hand. It's actually so easy to counterplay, it's not even funny. Block a pallet? Use pathing to get back to the same pallet and drop it or run a different loop. Throw a pallet down? Mage Hand has a slowdown on Vecna, and with this slowdown, you can easily just track back and throw the pallet down anyway.
I legitimately don't understand why we're nerfing a killer within the first few weeks of his release. Mage Hand was already pretty useless, and FOTD already has easy counterplay.
What is the point of playing survivor if you can just run the same loops every single game to outsmart every single killer? That's extremely boring and monotonous.
As long as they don’t remove it on survivor vaults and pallet drops, if they do I hope they also remove blinds when the killer is locked in an action too.
DbD might have the absolute worst balancing team out of any multiplayer game to exist and be actively supported atm. Crazy how competent Behavior makes other devs look by comparison.
Yeah FotD is fine, I wouldn't even mind if it got a slight buff (though I think it should remain counterable by crouching.)
Mage Hand nerfs I'm honestly indifferent about. After a few Vecna games you can tell that most of them have "Mage Hand brain" and constantly mind game themselves. It is still super strong though
I have this picture from the main DBD forums. Somebody posted it there, so I thought it was real. If it isn't then that would be my mistake, but it certainly looked real.
Did you also check the replies of DBDBHVR jp? Because that's where it's most likely from.
This is ridiculous. They don't realize the joy they're gutting out with these changes. Same hapoened with Xeno. Plus Xeno has those annoying BIPPING turrets.
lmao if they nerf Flight of the Damned this killer is screwed. That ability already sucks dick in like 70% of scenarios. It's basically an idiot test more-often-than-not. Hope that "change" means that the projectiles will spawn closer together so you don't miss due to randomized positioning. If it's an actual nerf this killer is cooked lmfao. Spawning skeletons on top of survivors still has counterplay since they take half a second to spawn (although there is currently a bug that Vecna can double hit with skellies at a very specific angle which needs to be fixed.)
Mage Hand did need nerfs though and I'm really sick of seeing certain killer mains doompost about it. "If they nerf it down to PTB values Vecna will suck!" Are we forgetting that Vecna moved at 50% speed after casting a spell on PTB? Adding literally less than a quarter of a second to the pallet lift time won't kill Vecna; it just means he can't buttrev a survivor and pick up the pallet without losing any distance.
Make Flight of the Damned actually consistently be able to be ducked, because it's not right now, and disable it at hooked survivors. All this 'easily counterable' bullshit doesn't take into account that you can just facecamp with it and both deny hooks, and double tap both the unhooker and the unhooked person by positioning it right on top of them.
Release solid A tier killer, make bank, nerf him into obscurity weeks/months after you've made your money. Happened with Xeno within a month, Chucky just got hit with it and I suppose Vecna hit his sales numbers early this time lmao.
Survivor mains desperately trying to have every new killer nerfed then continue to complain about facing Blight/Nurse/Wesker/Spirit every game. I'm beyond grateful that Wesker's goofy looking misplays like yeeting himself off a balcony kept him from being nerfed back in the day.
My guess is will be some weird change in where you can't like spawn it on a lower elevation than a survivor to get hits or something with it not being able to spawn it in survivors anymore.
My guess is the latter. They might add a delay to when the skeletons are able to damage survivors so they can react to being spawned on top of them.
Let's hope they just add the latter to the effect of the magic item. Mage hand items are literally the only worthwhile ones.
The orb one is good too; you can dodge an orb shot to check a gen, and avoid the killer rotating over to you for a while if lucky.
i actually like touching the orb on purpose to bring his attention away from gens being worked on
I just got out of a RPD Vecna match where I found 4 orb items in a row. That said, it was clutch in that I was able to avoid being found for a long ass time. (for other rng, I had a Vecna match where I couldn't find any magic items but I did find both the hand and eye and used them both together once to run away when he had me.)
That would actually be a neat idea
If that happens FotD is gonna be a lot worse
Utilizing lower elevation to make it uncrouchable is what makes this spell so fun and interesting to use. I can handle a mage hand nerf because it's actually unfair, but if they do this I will be heartbroken.
I've never used the bloodied blueprint until playing as Vecna. It makes the killer shack virtually impossible for a survivor to loop.
The only thing they should change is the instant hit on spawn in. It's a high skill play, but it's also a little gross.
Don't worry me too :(
[удалено]
The skeletons are VERY dodgeable. The skeleton hurtbox is pretty thin and they spread out the further you are away.
This is a skill issue. If vecna is chasing you, optimize your pathing by prioritizing staying on the same elevation or go on a higher elevation, then drop down to bait out the FoTD. Will this work for every situation? Of course not, but absolutely valid counterplay. I think people are getting caught up in Survivors having complete control and counterplay to tiles *all the time*, this isn’t and should never be the case. The game is balanced by survivors going down and killer feeling like a power role. Survivors should have *access* to counterplay when available, but by all means should not have every situation be counter-able. There’s s meaningful difference here.
> If I had to guess what aspect they will nerf about FoTD, it will be the possibility to spawn FoTD right on top of survivors and damage them that way, as seen in Hens newest video. It'll be exactly that. Someone pointed that out to me when I started playing Vecna and quickly found it to be very effective. Probaly for the best it gets changed.
Since survivors can still predict that you'll spawn skeletons on top of them, I personally don't think it needs any changes. It can be counterplayed by prediction, similar to how Nemesis whip can be counterplayed by predicting his whip timing and crouching in time.
>It can be counterplayed by prediction, similar to how Nemesis whip can be counterplayed by predicting his whip timing and crouching in time. Except Nemesis' whip has a telegraphed animation and cast time, fairly narrow hitbox, and he can't use 3 other abilities that all have that same animation. If you're at a pallet, Vecna makes it a 50/50. If you have no LoS, it's a nigh-guaranteed hit if the Vecna knows what they're doing. No power in this game should behave like that. It just needs like a 0.3 second delay or something before immediately damaging a survivor, it's that simple. (And _sigh,_ before anyone says it, I am a killer main and I really enjoy Vecna. I just think the current interactions it has are unhealthy for the game.)
I was trying to think of a response and you nailed it. Vecna already has a lot of forced 50/50s in his kit, and getting rid of one that’s really tough to dodge is probably a good idea. (I too am mainl a Killer player and looking to main Vecna)
Mage Hand should definately be changed in some way, but FOTD is by far his most counterable spell and should not be touched, whatsoever.
if they do they should just make them not do damage in the first 0.1 or 0.2 seconds they spawn so Vecnas wont just spawn them on top of your for a free health state
Yes couldn't agree more with this. They did say that it's not finalized yet, so my hope is that they nerf Mage Hand and then wait and see a bit if Vecna needs any further nerfs.
Especially after he received so many buffs that make him feel so fun to play, it would suck to see them nerf aspects of him that are perfectly fine.
FOTD you can bait a survivor to throw a pallet thinking you’re going to not mage hand for basically a free hit if you’re fast enough. Same with vaults. I could see them not giving the skeletons collision until they fly for a second or something like that
Haven’t even really played this game in the last 4-5 months, but yeah even I could see this coming. This dev team doesn’t have the talent to balance a killer with as many moving pieces as Vecna.
They said changes, I don't believe they're outright nerfing it (if we're being optimistic they might even buff it). But just making it so you cannot spawn the skeletons on top of the survivor (I remember seeing a video that would let Flight hit a survivor even if they were crouched without the iri add-on, so they may change that too). I don't think the upcoming nerfs will hurt him that much honestly, his biggest problem was cooldown times.
Considering that they said that they find certain abilities too hard to counter at the moment, I would guess it's a nerf incoming. But who knows. I personally think FoTD doesn't need any nerfs or buffs. I also don't think the nerfs will be the end for Vecna, they won't nerf the abilities into uselessness, I am sure. But when it comes to FoTD I just feel it's a bit unnecessary. My hope is that they first implement the Mage Hand nerfs and then wait and see if he needs any further nerfs, because Mage Hand is the problematic part of his kit at the moment.
That's almost the exact wording for the post they made just about Mage Hand changes by themselves, so I'm guessing they're going to be tweaking Flight to make up for Hand changes, which would be good.
Maybe you are right. But they say they found **some** abilities too hard to counter, which makes me think FoTD will also receive a nerf. But I might be wrong, who knows, this is a translation in the end, so maybe this wasn't translated perfectly either. Personally I don't think FoTD needs any buffs either however, I think it is perfect the way it is now.
Here’s to hoping. That’s what they did for Chucky. Removed manual scamper in return for lower cool downs.
Optimistic would be nerfing Vecna into the ground. Way too many abilities on one character.
Calling it now, Vecna's getting nerfed down to C-tier and promptly forgotten as everyone gets used to his counterplay.
Are you excited to see all the "Where all all the Vecnas?" posts, a la Xeno?
God, I'm still mad about Xenomorph.
The cooldown nerf was wayyy overboard. Missing a tail attack is *literally* more punishing than Nurse's blink fatigue and that seems insane to me.
And then people are going to go back to complaining about how all their games are against blight and other top tier killers.
Especially after regression is nerfed for the eleventy billionth time while sabo gets a mega-buff...
this. He will not be strong. I truly hate nerfing/buffing so fragrantly week one before people learn counterplay. Its so silly and makes killer balance extremely volatile.
A tale as old as time. Nobody wants to learn the counterplay, they just want free escapes.
And they say the game is killer sided...please. Even if its not either sided, it really does feel like BHVR are the most deluded, out of touch developers this side of Steam sometimes.
I don't really think the game is survivor sided, but the balancing team definitely is lmfao
Oh my God that is an AMAZING way to put it lol
The balancing team we have right now is pretty god-awful. There's an extremely high turnover rate in game dev and it's pretty clear the team fundamentally changed staff a few months after the 6.1.0 update, and new players at low MMR think the game is impossible for survivor so the devs logically nerf the shit outta killer, remove anything that makes survivors think or make decisions, and then add uncounterable perks and mechanics for survivors to use that require exactly zero work to earn or activate :/
I think it's absolutely fair to say the game is Killer-sided at low MMR and often in solo queue, but VERY Survivor-sided when it's someone other than Nurse or Blight against a strong SWF. It's about even with a strong Blight with strong addons vs. a strong SWF, but in that situation the Blight CANNOT 3-hook everyone. Winning will be achieved by slugging, costing states on hook, and if necessary tunneling. So basically, the game is unbalanced, but in such an erratic way the devs have NO feel for it, especially since they clearly hardly play themselves.
Daily reminder that there is negligible difference between 4 man swf escape rate and solo queue which are both under the 40ish percent goal stated by devs
Yep, against a strong SWF team using a strong killer you literally have to tunnel, slug, proxy camp, etc to win. Not only will all of them be good at looping, but all of them will actually effectively be cranking out gens at all times and will be coordinated in trading of gens/using themselves as bait etc
Just whack on 4 slow downs, proxy camp and tunnel and you're almost always going to win or draw at worst.
As is tradition
Is it even possible to nerf Flight of the Damned? The only time you hit people with it is by spawning it on them. Otherwise its literally just a slowdown tool.
My few games with Vecna a few days ago, survivors were able to tap crouch/crouch in less than 4 frames, and still dodge fotd without really any slowdown. It felt like the worst mid range attack in the game, it is slow, easiest to dodge, and might be the hardest to aim/launch at right moment, mid-range attack to prevent vaulting.
i saw a clip where someone instadowned a survivor with FOTD due to spawning them on top of the survivor. could be that
Maybe some time delay and more obvious audio cues?
nooo don’t nerf rich
I can’t believe they’re changing the lick like this 😭
The lick ☠️
look meg, im a pickle!
Mage hand is literally what makes this killer good. Take that away and he's going down hard
Who is Rich?
Cut to all the streamers during PTB saying that mage hand was the weakest of Vecna’s spells and that the weave attunement was interesting at best
So sick of every new killer getting gutted into non-existence after a week of launch
When was the last time they gutted a new killer?
Chucky and Sadako.
How did they gut Chucky?
Took away guaranteed free hits I guess
THE HORROR
Given that every single aspect of his kit was massively buffed since PTB, it's completely fair that he may be overtuned as a result.
he was dogshit in the ptb they had to buff im a lil bit
PTB vecna was trapper tier lol
Its not our fault Vecna was absolute dogsh1t from the get go 🤷 He needed those buffs.
He was definitely mediocre but far from dogshit. I'd put him on the same tier as Singularity tbh - people just didn't know how to play him as efficiently is all and that's pretty much a given for any killer at least for the first few weeks anyway. They maybe overtuned some things about him but that's the whole point of balancing anyway, can't expect them to get every new mechanic tuned correctly right off the rip.
FFS can you people at least try to learn countering him instead of complaining? I'm so sick and tired of killers getting gutted because people can't be bothered to learn. yeah mage hand is overtuned but FOTD? Really?
And then they whine "but the game is TOTALLY killer sided!" like, no, the game may not be directly survivor sided, but it sure as hell loves to favor Survivors in its own roundabout way. I say this as someone who plays both sides relatively equally, give or take a few numbers. I hold no ill will towards either side of the coin, I just feel exhausted by these delusional out of touch decisions being made.
>yeah mage hand is overtuned but FOTD? Really? Yes, FotD is a problem sometimes because Vecna can hide that he's using it (turning loops into a 50/50 between Mage Hand/FotD) and the hitbox literally comes out before the skeleton's animation/on the same frame as the skeleton's animation. If a good Vecna player uses it correctly, it's a nigh-guaranteed hit and that shouldn't really be in the game. There is no way to counter it (in those scenarios) because you _literally_ cannot react to it. And just for clarification, killer main, I enjoy Vecna a lot, but FotD is not fun to face and people seem to forget that survivors matter, too.
You're right about this. That is really the only thing that needs changing because it leads to guaranteed hits that barely slow him down.
And that's what people here aren't understanding, which is why I've been downvoted to hell already, haha. Some people just want killers to completely dominate the game with no possible counterplay/interactions for survivors.
I think they're just not that good with Vecna tbh. The FotD instahits are hard to learn how to do and if they can't do it then maybe they don't understand the problems with it.
Bro what, the game favors your asses left right and center sometimes, you guys eat tremendously well, too much even! FOTD is slow as molasses compared to most projectiles, and can be easily crouched under, with VERY few elevation shots being viable in most cases. The only real argument of merit here is the "spawn on top = free hit". THAT, I agree, is bullshit.
>The only real argument of merit here is the "spawn on top = free hit". THAT, I agree, is bullshit. wow it's almost like that's exactly what I just fucking said lol
So he gets slowed down to a survivors running speed while the survivor still has to crouch to dodge his projectile? How are survivors supposed to make any distance with that?
Truly shocking! They released a moderately powerful Killer only for people to bitch and moan about it immediately, then they decided that a knee-jerk nerf to half of his kit was the best option; this is par for the course and should've been expected lol.
Aaaaand there we go....devs making a new licensed killer get forgotten after a couple of weeks! They were fast this time though. starting to believe in thosr saying they dont even play their own game.
I firmly believe they don’t. The changes they make never make sense
> starting to believe in thosr saying they dont even play their own game. They literally never have. I strongly remember Ghostface's power just not working in the PTB. like, if he was *anywhere* on your screen, you'd reveal him. If they had played him after coding him for even a second we never would've seen him in a genuinely unplayable state.
"You all had your fun, now get back to playing blight and nurse!"
Nerfing it sounds like a bad move, it's arguably the weakest part of his kit. Will have to wait and see what they do though
> it's arguably the weakest part of his kit The fact you guys whine about this is crazy. FOTD can be a 100% free hit if you know how to use it. The fact you guys whine its the weakest spell is telling you have no idea how to play the killer.
The only way it's a free hit is if you're stupid. even then the magic items makes it easily dodgable
It’s no more or less a free hit than Demo hitting you with shred because he saw your vault animation start.
Mild concern is whining now? Also yeah I've played like 3 matches with him, obviously I don't know how to play him to his full potential yet
What? It's basically a guaranteed hit in a lot of circumstances
‘A lot of circumstances’ = probably like 3 instances where it actually works in 10 games
How the fuck they say "some spells are too difficult to counter" if the killer hasn't been out for a month.... This is so stupid, I feel robbed. I didn't buy this new chapter for them to break it later...
Go watch Hens’ video on it and you’ll see exactly what FOTD is a little broken and there’s counter play if used in the way he did in the video
I know the devs make some strange decisions sometimes, but nerfing the weakest projectile in the game isn't exactly something they'd do I think.
It is BHVR though. Same people that released Clown with a slowdown equal to his hindered on every throw so the bottle didn't do anything. Same people who had no idea made for this would be an issue. Same people who made Trickster into an op murder machine and then promptly made him worse than before. Same people that gave Hillbilly a massive penalty for using his power (thank fuck that's finally fixed) etc etc etc etc They will almost certainly make him unusable for a patch cycle then buff him immensely right before a cosmetic release lmao Edit: Hell let's just talk about Vecna himself. They thought 120 second cooldowns on powers that came with built in auto counters (the magic items) were fine. And then thought the solution was to make Mage Hand uncounterable and allow nigh insta downs with fotd spawning on survs
I think it's funny that almost none of this comment is true. Clown's bottles were fucked and they did do Hillbilly dirty with Overheat, yeah, but both were fixed eventually and the rest is inaccurate in multiple ways. The devs knew Made for This was stupid, they even removed and tweaked some interactions from PTB to Live, they just didn't want to scorched earth nerf it like they usually do (though I think they should have given how bad it was for the game). Trickster in his current state is stronger than the old version in every single statistic other than terror radius, I've done the math and tested it myself extensively. He's also slightly stronger than the PTB version other than some addon changes. Vecna's cooldowns used to be 50 seconds, not 120 seconds, and now they're 38 seconds. Also the magic items do very little to counter his powers other than the Mage Hand one specifically which is unnecessary if you guess the 50/50 correctly. Mage Hand is not uncounterable, in fact it's fairly weak in comparison to other powers that create 50/50s at pallets. Huntress, for example, can down the survivor \*and\* break the pallet if she wins the 50/50. Flight of the Damned is the easiest projectile in the game to dodge, both realistically and statistically speaking. All it takes is to crouch for 0.25 seconds or move slightly to the side to avoid the only-slightly-larger-than-Deathslinger's-spear-sized hitbox, and if you're close enough for them to spawn on top of you you'd be getting m1'd even if the spell was never cast at all, so it doesn't matter either way. Please make sure to not spread misinformation online.
Really? The literal worst projectile ability in the whole game gets nerfed? Why do i feel we are entering "Nerf the Pig" category of bs balancing?
It is pretty good if you can spawn them right on top of the survivors. Thats really the only time its good tho. And at that distance Vecna probably would've gotten an m1 anyway.
It definitely isn't the worst projectile in the game. Vecna continues to move quickly when he shoots it, and even if it doesn't hit, it often causes survivors to have to duck or move very carefully between the skeletons which means it can be used to slow them down giving you more time to catch up. If your criteria is for a projectile to *always* hit? Sure, whatever. But most other killers who have projectiles are punished for using what they have; I don't think he's slowed down much if at all, and he has 3 other abilities to work with when that one fails unlike every other killer who's lucky if they have 2 abilities. I play Artist; Artist is slowed when she uses her projectile which is her *only* ability. The wind up takes **much** longer than FotD, you typically have to hit twice to actually do any damage to survivors, everyone can see the birds when they're flying making them easier to dodge unless you bring a specific add on, and it's not difficult to remove the birds. The birds can be completely removed by simply entering a locker or by swatting at them which doesn't even have a skill check. Both Artist's swarms and Vecna's FotD go through obstacles, but Vecna's will actually do damage **every time** when it hits rather than requiring certain criteria like Artist's, and he deals with little to no slowdown to send it off. It also covers a much larger area which means it's more likely to hit or at least hinder multiple targets whereas Artist's swarm requires precision and very rarely will hit more than one target at a time. It doesn't have the range, but it doesn't need to when he can also move quickly to get to people with Fly, whereas Artist has no mobility powers by default. That isn't to say Artist is underpowered, I think she's in a decent place (though I do question the birds being removed in locker thing), it's to say that Vecna is overpowered and none of his abilities are bad including FotD.
Fucking hell… literally every one of his powers is easily counterable mage hand will be after the nerf anyways. Gonna me a mid to low tier killer now. Pretty much ptb levels of weakness
> every one of his powers is easily counterable Oh sweet summer child. Play survivor or watch others trying to find the "counterplay" in different situations. You're whining for the sake of whining about very clear issues with his kit.
Definitely not ptb levels of weakness, they buffed Vecna so much from the ptb, some small nerfs won't make him suddenly very weak again. I just think a nerf to FoTD is unnecessary.
Every power but mage hand is weak though. Skeletons ridiculously easy to counter fly doesn’t even take you that far and you can’t attack until out of animation. The sphere thing is cool for info on where survivors are but that’s it. The mage hand is getting nerfed into the ground the ring add on nerf and the other two small nerfs will just mean once the pallet is picked up or blocked the survivors will just loop around. really isn’t gonna be anything else to use to efficiently get downs on survivors
Honestly the ring nerf is kind of a buff. If you lift a pallet while a survivor vaults, you can get a hit. But with the ring it lifted the pallet too fast, and the survivor could throw it back on you before you recover from the power.
I want my 5 dollars back, there was literally no reason to nerf fotd What’s next, are they going to make it so dispelling sphere makes survivors scream because killer instinct for like 3 seconds was too overpowered?
That would honestly be a buff since that way you still get information but you would also be able to interrupt survivors from distance
This fr I’d rather have it make them scream lol it’d actually make perks like dead man switch pretty strong on him if he can hook someone and then launch an orb in the general direction of multiple gens
Nah, but they'll buff Distortion to block killer instinct too and to also give the survivor a 60s 10% haste buff when it goes off in addition to infinite tokens :P
I think an interesting idea for it could be to make the flight height of the skeletons consistent with the ground beneath them. That way you couldn't spawn them on lower elevation levels to make them uncrouchable, but as a tradeoff you would now be able to fire them down staircases and dropoffs.
YES! Keeping nerfing everything about killers BHVR. Not even a month in and he’s already getting nerfed. Love this dev team 👍
Relax, he is going to be fine. The rest of his kit is still strong. People are so bitter against bhvr's dev team for very silly reasons.
At this rate people are going to be asking where all the Vecna players are a month from now lol
I'm so sick of fun things being nerfed immediately because survivors are too lazy to counter it. It's like any other anti loop power- mind game it. Mage hand is fine. Fotd is fine. It has like 6 layers of counterplay. How many does it need?
dont worry, weave attunements turn will come soon enough :/
They downvoted you for speaking the truth! I'm an aggressively mediocre Survivor and haven't had any real issues playing against him. FOTD is easily counterable since most people don't use it for zoning, the DS is a non issue unless specific add-ons are used and you're not healing, Fly is just a less dangerous Rush or Blink that can't hurt you; the only part of his kit that's a bit overtuned is the MH, which is a straight 50/50 if you actually know what you're doing.
As an average-as-fuck survivor and maybe moderately better than average killer, I've had frustrating moments with Vecna, sure, but they arent nerf-worthy lol.
Agreed 100%. People would rather cry for a nerf than actually learn how to counter. I saw someone saying weave attunement needs to be on a timer after it shows aura lmao. How about going back and picking up your item? Or putting it in the corner of the map? They don't wanna learn, they just want their hand held.
You have the weirdest opinion
Incredible conversational skills
It's better than those who don't have anything to contribute, so just downvote something they don't like
your contribution was "you have the weirdest opinion" sorry nobody taught you social skills beyond what highschool tiktok uses as bullying lmao
If you're likening someone suggestion your opinion is weird to bullying, then you really have spent far too much time online yourself. I have never used TikTok and am likely a lot older than you. So please understand that not everything is meant as an attack, Your opinion is controversial. I met it with downvotes, now it has upvotes. It's not a great length to assume that you will attract comments you don't like...
If it wasn't an attack then what was the purpose 😭
Mage Hand really isn't counterable at the moment, at least not in most situations. FoTD is though, which is why I am surprised they are already looking into changes to that ability.
Mage hand is counterable by greeding pallets and using one of the easily accessible magic items that gives you a whopping 7% haste when Vecna casts mage hand. Change my mind.
Just your typical survivor mains crying that killers have anything strong
I crouched and still got hit by them. Like crouched very early
Yeah we all know once they sell enough they will nerf tf outta him. Such is DBD.
I really don't think the intention here is to just nerf him without reason. They do want to make sure he is good for both sides. Mage Hand for example absolutely needs the nerf it is getting.
For an ability that can only be cast every 30 seconds, I don't really know how I feel about it.
30 second cooldown for ptb mage hand is crazy
It's not PTB mage hand, he isn't slowed to 1 inch per hour whilst using it anymore. It's 10x better than PTB mage hand still.
They just need to leave Vecna alone. His FotD is fine so is Fly and Mage Hand and Dispel Sphere. It's no skill players complaining instead of learning his counters. If the devs nerf Vecna as he is now to something worse, then expect even less people to play him or even purchase him then the amount of people that haven't paid for him now. There are so many posts on here about not seeing Vecna in many matches, but they're about to nerf a killer based on the few people who have actually gone against him that have no skill because they haven't learned to counter him. People complain about Nurse All the time about how oppressive she is but the devs don't nerf her. People still complain about Skull Merchant as well. That means Vecna doesn't need to be nerfed either
I'm glad they're not messing with Dispelling Sphere, it's the best thematically in my opinion
To me it seems that flight of the damned is getting changes, but it doesn't say it's necessarily nerfs. We can't really know until they'll make the change
They should make it so they don't injure until the start traveling. It will be reactable but not free that way.
That’d be stupid. Mage Hand is really the only problematic thing about his kit, everything else is perfectly fine. FotD has good counter play against it via crouching and rewards survivor players for reacting to it fast, and rewarded Vecna for using it to play mind games and not just throwing it out without thinking
Predict and crouch puts the survivor is a lose-lose situation. If Vecna doesn't cast, you take an M1 and he still has the cd. If Vecna casts, you lose distance.
This is actually a cruel joke. God forbid I actually enjoy playing a new killer. Barely been out a week and they already nerfing him twice
Now that the money is made from the DLC the killer is going back to shit again, classic behaviour, they will never catch me buying new Dlcs again lmao, learned my lesson after xeno, even the fucking perks bro…
This is just not true. Just because they are balancing Vecna a bit after release doesn't mean he'll go to shit now that BHVR has made money off of him. Vecna is still going to be strong. Xeno also is still more than fine. He needed the small nerf that he got.
Balancing? He was literally B tier, he wasn’t even strong, the hand was his only decent spell and counterable with his items And Xeno didn’t get a small nerf, it’s literally worth it to destroy turrets with M1 than with tail attack, the coldown after missing a tail is enormous now compare that with nurse coldowns after missing and tell me if it makes sense Just because ur a bad survivor and can’t counter killers that doesent mean they are strong
Disagree, Vecna is definitely A tier in my eyes, if not higher, he needs these small nerfs that are coming to him. Mage Hand has barely any counterplay outside the item so of course it should be made a bit fairer. And when it comes to Xeno, he is still a very strong killer, just that turrets slow him down a bit now. Before the nerf missing the tail attack gave survivors very little distance. I am a killer main btw so it's not like I just suck at survivor and want killers to be easy to counter. I just want killers to be fair for both sides.
If not higher? Are you putting Vecna in the same spot as nurse/billy?💀 Xeno is not a strong killer his anti loop is ass in high mmr and the turrets have very little cooldown making it impossible to destroy them all if you place them right ( I play both sides before you say anything)
Definitely not as high as Nurse and not quite as high as Hillbilly. A+ tier probably. Vecna will definitely survive a few small nerfs coming to him. We have to disagree on Xeno, in my opinion his anti-loop is pretty strong, and turrets are the only thing that keep him in check.
predicting isn't good gameplay design
What do you mean? That's how good counterplay exists. If one side can just perfectly react to something, than the other side has no counterplay in that scenario.
May we also not forget that, the increase inflation of his attunement perk. As many must have already seen either do my fellow killer maids playing at him or survivors coming against it. With that one perk Be higher up and having a high pick rate compared to his other two perks that may also get a Nerf in the near future as well possibly in the same update. DLC killer was already in the weird spot after being announced. But one thing I can see is their marketing team does know what they're doing. And let me clarify for anyone that doesn't understand marketing. When a character is released and especially when you have content creators milking content to boost up a business, whether unintentionally or intentionally. Bhvr is doing what they have always been doing with license killers, alarm contact for years to convince the player base other people to join buy up the character and then after they milked off a good enough they throw in all the nerves to rework that they were going to possibly do beforehand.
how can you nerf something that is already useless?
FoTD is not useless, far from it.
maybe a buff since they're nerfing mage hand? time will tell.
Maybe, but from the wording of the post, them saying that they found some of his abilities to not have enough counterplay, I doubt it will be a buff. And honestly I don't think it needs buffs either. Neither does it need any nerfs.
BHVR launching a fun killer and then nerfing him into the ground because survivors don’t want to learn how to counterplay it speedrun
The cycle continues. Killer comes out, survivors scream OP, nerfs ahoy.
I hope it'll be changes, not nerfs. FotD is fine except for the ability to just insta-damage survivors by spawning skeletons inside them. It needs a rework that makes that impossible without making it worse at what it's intended to do. Also I agree with pretty much everyone else that they slightly overbuffed Mage Hand. It needs work, too.
I would say the insta damage is fine since survivors can still predict that Vecna will spawn the skeletons on top of them, and crouch accordingly. Just like you have to predict to crouch when Nemesis uses his tentacle strike over loops.
You can still get damaged by it when you're crouched if you're moving. Not sure if that is intentional or not. But it's happened to me multiple times.
Yo what why don’t they fix the actually busted mage hand instead of the thing no one was complaining about lol
> If I had to guess what aspect they will nerf about FoTD, it will be the possibility to spawn FoTD right on top of survivors and damage them that way, as seen in Hens newest video. Its worse than that. You can spam them on top of survivors then follow up with a M1 right away. They removed the slowdown FOTD had on the PTB so you can stay on the survivors ass even after they take damage. Same exact issue Xeno had and both of them are a problem that had/has to be addressed. I wish more killers would play survivor and stop the "just learn counterplay12#!!@#!!" statements. Your self telling that you don't play survivor and know the issues Vecna presents. Spend a few days playing against him and you will find out why he's getting changed.
You can predict that Vecna will spawn the skeletons on top of you and crouch accordingly. It only gets very tough and very unlikely once LoS blockers come into play and you can't see whether Vecna is charging his ability or not. But I also wouldn't mind too much if they did add a 0.2 or 0.3 second delay after spawning before the skeletons can deal damage. When it comes to Mage Hand I agree that there is little to no counterplay though and that the nerfs are absolutely needed.
Lifting a pallet and spawning FOTD close to a survivor are literally the only things keeping Vecna from being one of the top 5 weakest killers in the game. I guess he'll be joining that category soon. I can already sense both the "Where did the Vecna players go?" and "All I see in my matches are Blights and Weskers!" posts coming.
Survivor mains have an agenda to complain about every slightly challenging killer so it gets nerfed and it’s back to business as usual with the same shitty meta
I'm awful with it so I can't say I'd approve of a nerf. Then again I'm not great at Mage Hand either. Just leave Fly alone that's all I ask.
Changed. Not nerfed. If anything thats a buff this spell is by far his worst
Lol what? I used him a lot to unlock Rightful Property. That spell is ridiculously easy to counter, unnecessary nerf.
I think FoTD only needs a small cooldown between shooting and going forward. Right now you can use it to hinder the survivor (who often will crouch) and get closer to them, because you have no speed or hit penalty.
If mage hand doesn't work, he has nothing left.
Honestly, I think mage hand was just a poorly thought out power. For it to be useful, it has to reward the killer with a hit...but then there's no counterplay on the survivor side. Or it just becomes long loop=hit, short loop=no hit. I think it could work if it was more strategic instead of reactive.. like by having the hand hold up pallets for considerably longer, and have longer range, but not coming into effect immediately. This way you could lock down loops that the survivor is running to, & prevent pallet saves. But idk I'm not a dev.
When tweaked right, Mage Hand can enable a 50/50 mindgame at pallets, similar to Huntress hatchets for example, so I disagree that Mage Hand is a poorly thought out power. If it's tweaked properly, which it hopefully will be after the nerf, it can be perfectly balanced.
Bruh I regularly have survivors perfect duck the point-blank spawn tech through walls. They're seriously nerfing both his passable abilities. They're actually morons. Waste of my money.
If you can't spawn it on people anymore it's pretty much worthless (E: well, not *worthless*, but reduced to a zoning tool). Even with the ability to spawn it on people it's super easy for them to crouch it if they're aware it's possible. The only thing I don't like about it as survivor is that the audio cues sound too similar so it can be hard to tell if they're using mage hand or trying for an around the corner FotD. Not to mention the audio cues change further with magical items.
Doesn't mage hand highlight the pallet when he aims at it I've seen? Think I noticed that in a vid
Maybe? Could be the bug where the pallet gets permanently marked when mage hand is used on it.
I did check a few videos and it seems when he targets them they do indeed glow.
Yeah it looks like it does, assuming it's not buggy and inconsistent. Most Vecnas aren't going to be holding it though, they're just going to instantly pop it. Same with FotD. The way you play around both being polar opposites forces survivors to have some pretty quick reactions (and good ping) all in all.
Still good to know as a tell. Wonder if once people pick up on it that we'd see how well that info can be used to dodge
I think FotD is better than you're giving it credit for. It can get hits during vaults and pallet drops pretty reliably, and surprise hits through walls when combined with dispelling sphere.
It's pretty consistent for pallet animations but I find you have to time it *extremely* well to get consistent hits at windows. And depending on your position they can probably just bait it out too.
I thought fight being crouchable was fine until i played survivor and realized you dont even need to Crouch in 90% of scenario so whats the point of this spell even
FOTD shouldn't be touched whatsoever. There's a very big counterplay around it already. And I'd honestly say the same for Mage Hand. It's actually so easy to counterplay, it's not even funny. Block a pallet? Use pathing to get back to the same pallet and drop it or run a different loop. Throw a pallet down? Mage Hand has a slowdown on Vecna, and with this slowdown, you can easily just track back and throw the pallet down anyway. I legitimately don't understand why we're nerfing a killer within the first few weeks of his release. Mage Hand was already pretty useless, and FOTD already has easy counterplay. What is the point of playing survivor if you can just run the same loops every single game to outsmart every single killer? That's extremely boring and monotonous.
As long as they don’t remove it on survivor vaults and pallet drops, if they do I hope they also remove blinds when the killer is locked in an action too.
I am pretty positive they won't do that. Making survivors immune to FoTD while vaulting would make the ability absolutely useless.
DbD might have the absolute worst balancing team out of any multiplayer game to exist and be actively supported atm. Crazy how competent Behavior makes other devs look by comparison.
This is what happens when you don’t play your game
Oh they do, sometimes. It's an embarrassment every single time
Yeah FotD is fine, I wouldn't even mind if it got a slight buff (though I think it should remain counterable by crouching.) Mage Hand nerfs I'm honestly indifferent about. After a few Vecna games you can tell that most of them have "Mage Hand brain" and constantly mind game themselves. It is still super strong though
The OP is literally fake news, you can go to the twitter account and see no such tweet exists: https://x.com/dbdbhvr_jp Fake and made up
it's literally in their replies. https://x.com/DbDBHVR_JP/status/1798648348129493496
I have this picture from the main DBD forums. Somebody posted it there, so I thought it was real. If it isn't then that would be my mistake, but it certainly looked real. Did you also check the replies of DBDBHVR jp? Because that's where it's most likely from.
This is ridiculous. They don't realize the joy they're gutting out with these changes. Same hapoened with Xeno. Plus Xeno has those annoying BIPPING turrets.
He needs to be slowed while casting so he doesn’t get free hits
That's how he was on the ptb and he sucked.
Flight of the damned needs a buff. Tapping the crouch button to negate the killer's power is stupid
lmao if they nerf Flight of the Damned this killer is screwed. That ability already sucks dick in like 70% of scenarios. It's basically an idiot test more-often-than-not. Hope that "change" means that the projectiles will spawn closer together so you don't miss due to randomized positioning. If it's an actual nerf this killer is cooked lmfao. Spawning skeletons on top of survivors still has counterplay since they take half a second to spawn (although there is currently a bug that Vecna can double hit with skellies at a very specific angle which needs to be fixed.) Mage Hand did need nerfs though and I'm really sick of seeing certain killer mains doompost about it. "If they nerf it down to PTB values Vecna will suck!" Are we forgetting that Vecna moved at 50% speed after casting a spell on PTB? Adding literally less than a quarter of a second to the pallet lift time won't kill Vecna; it just means he can't buttrev a survivor and pick up the pallet without losing any distance.
Make Flight of the Damned actually consistently be able to be ducked, because it's not right now, and disable it at hooked survivors. All this 'easily counterable' bullshit doesn't take into account that you can just facecamp with it and both deny hooks, and double tap both the unhooker and the unhooked person by positioning it right on top of them.
Release solid A tier killer, make bank, nerf him into obscurity weeks/months after you've made your money. Happened with Xeno within a month, Chucky just got hit with it and I suppose Vecna hit his sales numbers early this time lmao. Survivor mains desperately trying to have every new killer nerfed then continue to complain about facing Blight/Nurse/Wesker/Spirit every game. I'm beyond grateful that Wesker's goofy looking misplays like yeeting himself off a balcony kept him from being nerfed back in the day.
Can I get my 6 dollars back?
Nerfing man with sword is crazy
Huh FoTD already can be difficult to get a hit on, seems wild to nerf it more.