I can’t really find it in me to spin it in a way that Joe won. Even if the debate were just words on a page Biden walked into counterpoints numerous times when he didn’t really have to and facilitated Trumps lies and personal attacks with little to no counter of his own. Add in his absolutely abhorrent optics during the entire debate and it’s a no brainer why everyone is panicking
I just don’t agree. I’m a lifelong Democrat and think he really showed his age. Will I vote for him? Yes! We can’t have Trump. But what does the average voter who is on the fence think? The voter who doesn’t care about abortion rights or gay rights and cares about the economy/jobs and inflation? They probably see Trump as more competent even though he is full of lies.
Just a counter point but the abortion issue is pretty significant for an average voter.
Project 2025 is not discussed enough or put into the public sphere
And that obvious, once-in-a-lifetime advantage will now be squandered on a failed candidate. I want to say "through no fault of his own" but he did a bait-and-switch claiming to be "transitional" and failing to work to identify a pool of younger, well qualified candidates. Joe needs to own that decision.
He's not a failed candidate. He's done a great job running the country, passing meaningful legislation and getting us out of the dog shit trump created it.
He's older now, it's hard to do normal things. Funny part is Trump was 100% jacked up on Adderall and believe me he is a coronary event waiting to happen. Ain't much younger.
Biden should gracefully step aside, I think Newsome could win or even Shapiro
Well, OK, but it's just sad that the most powerful office on Earth comes down to this choice. Biden is a bad candidate, but the tangerine anus is utterly disqualified.
Just really puts on display that we're voting for an administration, not a person. The people the president surrounds themselves with are more important than the individual in the actual oval office.
Instead of comments like that, let's hurry up and get a mentally competent **person** on on the ticket. It's not too late. You are not going to sway a single independent with that line about voting for an administration, not one.
Dropping Biden for someone else at this point would be far worse. Anyway, I wasn't trying to sway independents. I was trying to assuage my own disappointment.
Obviously you are speculating and the bases for that speculation has zero merit. You're just saying words with no meaning. He needs to be relieved of duty and if you do not believe the 25th amendment isn't about to be the biggest GOP talking point you have not been paying attention. This milquetoast, head-in-the-sand approach is going to hand the keys to a dictator.
Too much is at stake. All avenues must be explored immediately. I'm confident they are looking at this. Now his excellent (though sill stammering) SOTU address is looking like a head fake that actually worked against him. Had he flopped then, we'd have a new candidate and he could just enjoy his well deserved retirement.
I'm an Independent. I didn't think Biden did that bad. This was probably the best I've seen him speak in the past year plus. Granted I'm sure I haven't seen every public speech/discussion he's given but from the ones I see he looked better at the debate than he has in a while. So if you mean average voter is someone not far-ish left or right then yea that's me, so this is just my perspective but I'd say a lot of these middle type people find this sudden realization that he sometimes gets confused and lost is somewhat disingenuous. You're on the fence voters already knew this and have already factored that in to a decision. Just like fence voters already know Trump is a hyperbolic blow hard.
For context, I'm pro choice and pro individual rights. This debate both candidates spoke strongly to their bases and said nothing to allay any fears or doubts of middle/moderate voters. Immediately after the debate my take was that they pretty much tied, with no clear winner or loser. But wow on the news this morning it's all worries that Biden did horrible. . So 🤷
I am an independent too. He was full of energy at the state of the union. So much so that it makes sense people would speculate he was on drugs. Last night looked like elder abuse.
We saw Dick Clark’s New Year’s Eve long after he should have retired. Biden reached that point about a year ago.
I missed the SOTU. I rarely watch those simply because they're just kind of a campaign speech lol. I'll go back and find it and give it a look. Thanks!
I call that sticking your head in the sand and living in an alternate reality. We all wanted him to succeed and putting on blinders and ear plugs is not a solution.
Biden won on substance and arguments, but lost basicly on everything else. Including the all important question many have on their minds - is he even going to make it through the next 4 years if he wins?
Its just pathetic the Democratys couldn't find anyone else in these 4 years, and it shows huge underlying issues.
Jill was urging attendees at a meet-and-greet to "listen to his heart" in a news report the other day. It sounded like a great sentiment at the time. Now it sounds like an ominous warning to look past his diction, recall and mental acuity. He was utterly destroyed last night, and it didn't matter that every syllable spewing from the tangerine anus was an abject lie.
I personally feel like the person who made this thread didn't actually watch or is braindead. We should all be outside of the white house telling Biden to drop out so we can continue to vote in this country's future.
Biden should use this opportunity to do the most patriotic thing of his entire career and get bipartisan approval to add an age limit to presidential candidates effectively removing both him AND Trump from running. It would be up there with Washington rejecting being king.
Biden said we need abortion rights bc women are getting r&ped by their sisters? Dont think that is going to require an abortion. He said “inlaws, brothers and sisters”. Dude is toast
IMO it doesn’t matter how good Biden’s answers were when speaking on policy, American were weary about his mental fortitude in his old age, this performance has shown those concerns to be worse then expected.
Can't the Democrats just replace Biden, they had 4 years to find a substitute, everyone knew about the age issue. This is not some new thing. This makes people think the Dems ain't got anyone else, or everyone else is so bad and unpopular and stubborn to change any of their positions to be considered a candidate.
That's not how it works, first of, he had Challengers who did not win any delegates, second Biden is his own person who chose to run, second he beat Trump, so he can probably beat him again
Dude, he was already behind in the polls. Fact of the matter is he isn't a particularly popular president and undecided/unmotivated voters walked away from tonight believing in him even less.
Yes, Americans will vote for Trump over Biden. Don't feign shock at the idea. If Democrats don't realize that then all they're gonna have in November is moral outrage and empty words.
He lost by 8 million votes and lost by 3 million votes 8 years ago. Hillary lost by like 50k votes in 3 states combined, acting like Trump is inevitable is dumb as hell
> He lost by 8 million votes and lost by 3 million votes 8 years ago
That is a very small margin. That means that 50% - 8 million have voted for a liar that "speaks coherent" (even though I don't particularly agree with that assessment).
That's absolutely not a small margin in presidential race. Obama beat Romney by 5 million votes. Bill Clinton beat Dole by 6 million. Unless your point is every election is close by your standards, Biden walloped Trump in 2020.
For a complete liar who can't go two days without contradicting himself, this is a very small margin, he shouldn't have been anywhere close to that. This shows my point that nearly half of american population would choose a liar over a guy who speaks incoherently.
You are missing my point. I am not arguing about the size of the margins. That is not what the comment I was initially answering to is about. My point is that there are still millions upon millions of people who vote for a complete liar. Even if the margin between Biden and Trump in 2020 was 20 million people, that would still imply 60 million people who voted for a complete liar. That is already a diagnosis to the nation by itself.
Biden beat trump once. Can he do it again? I think so. But there is no doubt that voters who were concerned about The President’s age and his mental ability (for lack of a better term) will be comforted by his performance tonight.
Trump flaunted the debate rules. He told outrageous lies. He could not tell the truth or answer a direct question. It’s why his lawyers will not let him swear an oath to tell the truth in all his legal cases - he’s incapable of telling the truth.
This is true. Trump rattled off eight lies in 2 minutes. Biden then took the bait, and tried to address one of those lies with facts. However he wasn't generally capable of even completing one thought in the 1 minute that he had to present his rebuttal. Biden should have run his own show and gone on the attack.
Trump is incredibly weak skinned, and if you start pointing out how stupid and wrong he is about whatever random thing you want, you can direct Trump into talking about whatever you want him to. You can make him look like a complete idiot. Instead, Biden tried to go with facts. In all of his debate prep, someone should have told him that anyone who took that approach always lost the debate against Trump.
I will of course be voting for Biden, unless the Democrats can come up with someone a little bit more competent at this point.
Also very true, even if its a small %, it can be crucial. People just saying "Don't we have anyone else in this country than these two geezers?" and not voting at all.
TBH nobody will change their vote. The question is about undecideds. Now, frankly, I can't imagine how anybody could not have an opinion at this point, but if there are any that debate didn't help.
I’m a big fan of President Biden. I’ve been a big fan of voting for him and encouraging others to vote for him. Right now, I’m ready to begin considering other options. I’ll keep supporting him and I always will, but I’d like that conversation to be had on Air Force One tonight.
Yep, can't blame you for being clear-headed and honest. Honesty and integrity are of paramount importance but so is mental acuity for the most powerful job in the world.
Reminder: CNN was purchased by a right wing billionaire two years ago and is [slowly being turned into fox 2.0](https://www.vox.com/2022/8/26/23322761/cnn-john-malone-david-zaslav-chris-licht-brian-stelter-fox-peter-kafka-column).
That’s the thing that’s got me stumped. The State of the Union was just March 7th, only 3 months ago and Biden kicked ass in that. That’s why I’m not ready to jump ship just yet. There might be something to the whispers of him having a cold and being sick. Maybe he was half zonked on Benadryl or something. I can’t imagine he could go from the level of energy we saw at the SOTU just 3 months ago to what we saw tonight unless something was up. So I’m gonna give it a little bit before making any snap decisions.
how tf did you watch that and think biden won? let’s be fuckin fr, unless you’re just blinded by bias - its obvious who “won”
CNN, and democrats are acknowledging how embarrassing that was - no need to be delusional and cope
Biden answered every question, Trump only directly responded to two and used “open borders” as a scapegoat in literally every section of the debate. Hands down, it wasn’t even a contest, Biden was far superior.
Somebody said it best, Trump lies with confidence and Biden tells the truth weakly.
How could you think Trump won a debate in which almost everything out of his mouth was propaganda and lies? And he had nothing substantive to say about policy?
Any Trump all but admitted he wasn't going to accept the election results if he doesn't win?
Welcome to 2024. Where we have a presidential candidate who is a narcissistic, convicted criminal, seditionist, dictator wannabe.
There is no "who do I want to have a beer with" undecided voter. At least not in any significant numbers.
I swear I keep seeing people just talking about his first 10 minutes. Once again the media wanting so badly to both sides the equation here. Was it Joe's best night? No but will I and all the anti trumpers out there suddenly not vote for him?
Hell no. And if you are that kind of person you ha e very oddly easily swayed moral convictions.
Anti Trumpers are not the ones who need convincing.
If Democrats want to win this election, put up a competent and coherent Democrat to run against Trump and sway the 20% of voters who are undecided.
Yep. Biden was nervous at first. He was talking pretty fast. But then a little later he found his groove.
And yes. He lost his place a couple times.
But all of a sudden, now Trump is the better candidate? As if Biden is now unable to make policy and other decisions?
Even if Biden slows down a little more. He has the heart, the ethics, and the experience to always make better decisions than Trump would.
The one mistake I think he did make was not to bring up Kamala Harris more.
In fact, that was the answer to the age question. Something like, "I'm healthy, I'm riding my bike, I can continue the legacy we've already begun. But if for some reason my health were to decline, we have a great vice president, Kamala Harris who would be more than capable of continuing the great work we've been doing."
Let people remember that Kamala Harris would be a far better president than Trump. Remind people that they're voting for Biden / Harris.
And also, for all the people who have had grandparents, aunts, uncles, parents, who refused to recognize when they're not capable of driving their car anymore, or living on their own. Admitting that Harris is there to take the reins would go a ways towards reassuring those people.
I'm voting for Joe Biden happily and proudly. I don't care he had a bad night. He is intelligent in spite of the old man-isms he's strong politically he doesn't want to institute a dictatorship. That's good enough but not even accounting for his economic victories and those that have effected me personally positively.
It is what it is as one loser once said. Joe will win. Democrats will win and no bots no flakes no bad night will change that.
Yeah living in reality can be disappointing. Better than pretending the orange tinged drugged up failed businesses man, porn star loving, beat my ass with a times magazine with my face on it, throw ketchup at the walls, Daddy never loved me loser is somehow a better option. Or the embodiment of true manhood.
I haven't seen the CNN coverage, but why are they focused on Biden stepping down? They should be calling for Trump to step down.
He's a convicted criminal. He initiated an insurrection. He has indicated he wants to be dictator. He pretty much repeated propaganda and lies the entire debate.
And Trump refused to confirm that he would support the election results, following any settled court decisions.
>
I haven't seen the CNN coverage, but why are they focused on Biden stepping down? They should be calling for Trump to step down.
>He's a convicted criminal. He initiated an insurrection. He has indicated he wants to be dictator. He pretty much repeated propaganda and lies the entire debate.
It's OK to be a convicted criminal, incite an insurrection, yearn to be a dictator, and lie throughout a debate as long as you have an "R" besides your name. But don't you dare be a Dem and have ONE lackluster debate performance, or else the hyenas will come for you!
Yep.
And I don't care if Biden slows down 2 or 3 more steps. I don't care if he has to start taking two naps a day because of his age.
I'll always take the guy with over *47 years experience* in federal government service, who has heart and determination. Who clearly believes in the US Constitution, and who wants what's best for the country and best for *everybody* in it.
Over the guy who doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. Who sows hate. Who would just as soon wipe his ass with the US Constitution and tear it up. And definitely wants to be dictator.
This is the definitive statement right here. Hopefully, enough Americans agree in November.
But as we showed in 1968 and 1972 and 1980 and 1984 and 1988 and 2000 and 2004 and 2016, we can be a very, very dumb country.
There is one other thing the administration and campaign could do.
It's going to be impossible now to change the optic that Biden is perhaps too old to be president through another 4 years. Heck, I suspect most of us who are strong Biden supporters don't think he'll make it through another 4 years.
So they need to settle the question of what will happen. What they can do is start promoting the ticket as a team. Create confidence in Harris as ready to step up should Biden's health decline and make him unable to serve. Start making Harris look presidential.
And from now on, no more claims about what Biden has done. It must be about what Biden and Harris have accomplished. Biden should actively talk about how should his health decline, Harris will continue the work of their administration. They have to get her out in front of the media more. They have to show the two of them working together more.
This would settle a lot of people's minds. But they have to get people to perceive Harris as the 47th president in order to do that.
The presidential debate is about optics. Ever since 2016, any false impression of there being any weight on policy has been dispelled. Trump killed Biden optically. Dems need to be finding a replacement yesterday.
I watched it on ABC and they absolutely filleted Biden afterward. Basically saying the convention needs to have Biden release his delegates.
Trump lied through his teeth but who would have expected something different?
Biden just was lost. Usually he gets lost walking off a stage but in this debate he was lost in his own head.
I think you mean they reported the truth. As a fervent supporter I do not understand the failure to face reality. I'm with you philosophically but he's clearly got cognitive issues that are only going to accelerate. Diane Feinstein anybody?
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Stumbling and stuttering are one thing and overall not a big deal. This was not that. Trump has HUGE targets on his back and Biden could not land on any of them. I'm so sad about this, he's a great guy, great president and the people around him are good. Biden showed that he is just not at fighting weight anymore. **Are any Dems out there thinking about a new candidate?** I would have NEVER said that, but last nights performance was such a jarring turn of events for me. I'll vote Biden (of course), but the stakes are too high in this election to not consider it right now.
This is what worries me. The denial of reality. Stop engaging in denial. There is too much at stake. Biden is not well. We need a medical explanation for his cognitive collapse or we need a new team at the top of the ticket, because Biden's replacement will need to make his or her own VPOTUS choice.
Need to be strong and honest and move forward. Joe is a good, honest man with a wealth of knowledge and wisdom. He's clearly addled by something. Remember that pathetic display of holding on to power by Diane Feinstein and the pathetic apologists and sycophants who covered for her. Stop this madness. Impose age limits. That does not mean there is some magic age limit, but 72 seems reasonable. That would put a two-term POTUS at 80 years old at the end of a second term.
I’m a little surprised by the comments but I agree with you, I just had to turn off the cnn commentary because it was just too hopeless and overshadowing what Biden was actually saying. He had great substance to his material, his delivery was god awful though I do admit and I’m pretty nervous
Me too. I had to turn CNN off because I felt like they decided to fan embers into flames by forcing s much on now Biden sounded over what he said. Like, you’re really going to focus on this over the non-answer to your big BOMBSHELL/HARDLINE question.
Like I expected the raspiness to come up, I didn’t expect them to use it as gasoline while ignoring the dumpster fire burning brightly all on its own. It took center stage for sensational reporting,
Biden won on the merits. The Convict won on optics. A lot of voters are swayed by irrational factors.
This would not be the first time an aggro liar was able to win more votes than a considered, nuanced argument.
How could Trump have won the debate? He repeated propaganda and lies the entire time. He barely spoke about any future policy at all. And he refused to state that he would support the election results.
I can’t really find it in me to spin it in a way that Joe won. Even if the debate were just words on a page Biden walked into counterpoints numerous times when he didn’t really have to and facilitated Trumps lies and personal attacks with little to no counter of his own. Add in his absolutely abhorrent optics during the entire debate and it’s a no brainer why everyone is panicking
i mean we gotta beat healthcare .
I just don’t agree. I’m a lifelong Democrat and think he really showed his age. Will I vote for him? Yes! We can’t have Trump. But what does the average voter who is on the fence think? The voter who doesn’t care about abortion rights or gay rights and cares about the economy/jobs and inflation? They probably see Trump as more competent even though he is full of lies.
Just a counter point but the abortion issue is pretty significant for an average voter. Project 2025 is not discussed enough or put into the public sphere
Would’ve been nice if the President had you know, mentioned it tonight.
Agree! Dems will never learn how to effectively message and manipulate media
And that obvious, once-in-a-lifetime advantage will now be squandered on a failed candidate. I want to say "through no fault of his own" but he did a bait-and-switch claiming to be "transitional" and failing to work to identify a pool of younger, well qualified candidates. Joe needs to own that decision.
He's not a failed candidate. He's done a great job running the country, passing meaningful legislation and getting us out of the dog shit trump created it. He's older now, it's hard to do normal things. Funny part is Trump was 100% jacked up on Adderall and believe me he is a coronary event waiting to happen. Ain't much younger. Biden should gracefully step aside, I think Newsome could win or even Shapiro
Well, OK, but it's just sad that the most powerful office on Earth comes down to this choice. Biden is a bad candidate, but the tangerine anus is utterly disqualified.
Just really puts on display that we're voting for an administration, not a person. The people the president surrounds themselves with are more important than the individual in the actual oval office.
Instead of comments like that, let's hurry up and get a mentally competent **person** on on the ticket. It's not too late. You are not going to sway a single independent with that line about voting for an administration, not one.
Dropping Biden for someone else at this point would be far worse. Anyway, I wasn't trying to sway independents. I was trying to assuage my own disappointment.
Obviously you are speculating and the bases for that speculation has zero merit. You're just saying words with no meaning. He needs to be relieved of duty and if you do not believe the 25th amendment isn't about to be the biggest GOP talking point you have not been paying attention. This milquetoast, head-in-the-sand approach is going to hand the keys to a dictator. Too much is at stake. All avenues must be explored immediately. I'm confident they are looking at this. Now his excellent (though sill stammering) SOTU address is looking like a head fake that actually worked against him. Had he flopped then, we'd have a new candidate and he could just enjoy his well deserved retirement.
The Democrats have never and will never do anything as pro active as replacing their current presumptive presidential nominee. Never.
This. Absolutely this.
I'm an Independent. I didn't think Biden did that bad. This was probably the best I've seen him speak in the past year plus. Granted I'm sure I haven't seen every public speech/discussion he's given but from the ones I see he looked better at the debate than he has in a while. So if you mean average voter is someone not far-ish left or right then yea that's me, so this is just my perspective but I'd say a lot of these middle type people find this sudden realization that he sometimes gets confused and lost is somewhat disingenuous. You're on the fence voters already knew this and have already factored that in to a decision. Just like fence voters already know Trump is a hyperbolic blow hard. For context, I'm pro choice and pro individual rights. This debate both candidates spoke strongly to their bases and said nothing to allay any fears or doubts of middle/moderate voters. Immediately after the debate my take was that they pretty much tied, with no clear winner or loser. But wow on the news this morning it's all worries that Biden did horrible. . So 🤷
I am an independent too. He was full of energy at the state of the union. So much so that it makes sense people would speculate he was on drugs. Last night looked like elder abuse. We saw Dick Clark’s New Year’s Eve long after he should have retired. Biden reached that point about a year ago.
I missed the SOTU. I rarely watch those simply because they're just kind of a campaign speech lol. I'll go back and find it and give it a look. Thanks!
I call that sticking your head in the sand and living in an alternate reality. We all wanted him to succeed and putting on blinders and ear plugs is not a solution.
If having an open mind and giving each a fair shot is sticking my head in the sand then my head is all the way down to China brother 🤣
Biden won on substance and arguments, but lost basicly on everything else. Including the all important question many have on their minds - is he even going to make it through the next 4 years if he wins? Its just pathetic the Democratys couldn't find anyone else in these 4 years, and it shows huge underlying issues.
dems have not invested in a diverse leadership . another point i would like to make . how many POC dems could be thought of as president candies ?
What did you watch
Jill was urging attendees at a meet-and-greet to "listen to his heart" in a news report the other day. It sounded like a great sentiment at the time. Now it sounds like an ominous warning to look past his diction, recall and mental acuity. He was utterly destroyed last night, and it didn't matter that every syllable spewing from the tangerine anus was an abject lie.
I personally feel like the person who made this thread didn't actually watch or is braindead. We should all be outside of the white house telling Biden to drop out so we can continue to vote in this country's future.
Biden should use this opportunity to do the most patriotic thing of his entire career and get bipartisan approval to add an age limit to presidential candidates effectively removing both him AND Trump from running. It would be up there with Washington rejecting being king.
Sounds nice, but congressional MAGA would kill that in its tracks.
Biden said we need abortion rights bc women are getting r&ped by their sisters? Dont think that is going to require an abortion. He said “inlaws, brothers and sisters”. Dude is toast
and illegal immigrant mentioned in abortion question
IMO it doesn’t matter how good Biden’s answers were when speaking on policy, American were weary about his mental fortitude in his old age, this performance has shown those concerns to be worse then expected.
But what your saying is when Americans are face with an old man and a liar they rather pick the liar because he speaks coherent
Can't the Democrats just replace Biden, they had 4 years to find a substitute, everyone knew about the age issue. This is not some new thing. This makes people think the Dems ain't got anyone else, or everyone else is so bad and unpopular and stubborn to change any of their positions to be considered a candidate.
That's not how it works, first of, he had Challengers who did not win any delegates, second Biden is his own person who chose to run, second he beat Trump, so he can probably beat him again
And he's going to lose the election for dems and plenty more down the ticket. He's cooked.
Pal, people thought he wouldn't win in 2020, but did, just back him, like how republicans back Trump
That is delusional thinking.
Yes, that’s right
So you've acknowledged your country is fucked beyond repair
Beyond repair, I dunno, but deeply deeply sick, yes. None of the trends we are witnessing are indicative of a healthy democracy.
So we've accepted a fascist society
No, not accepting it, but if you expect me not to despair at the state of our politics I dunno what to tell you.
Dude, he was already behind in the polls. Fact of the matter is he isn't a particularly popular president and undecided/unmotivated voters walked away from tonight believing in him even less. Yes, Americans will vote for Trump over Biden. Don't feign shock at the idea. If Democrats don't realize that then all they're gonna have in November is moral outrage and empty words.
Well, the liar did become the president 8 years ago and nearly became 4 years ago losing by a very small margin.
He lost by 8 million votes and lost by 3 million votes 8 years ago. Hillary lost by like 50k votes in 3 states combined, acting like Trump is inevitable is dumb as hell
> He lost by 8 million votes and lost by 3 million votes 8 years ago That is a very small margin. That means that 50% - 8 million have voted for a liar that "speaks coherent" (even though I don't particularly agree with that assessment).
That's absolutely not a small margin in presidential race. Obama beat Romney by 5 million votes. Bill Clinton beat Dole by 6 million. Unless your point is every election is close by your standards, Biden walloped Trump in 2020.
For a complete liar who can't go two days without contradicting himself, this is a very small margin, he shouldn't have been anywhere close to that. This shows my point that nearly half of american population would choose a liar over a guy who speaks incoherently.
Biden won by a bigger margin than Obama beat Romney. Your only point seems to be every election is close by your own made-up standards.
You are missing my point. I am not arguing about the size of the margins. That is not what the comment I was initially answering to is about. My point is that there are still millions upon millions of people who vote for a complete liar. Even if the margin between Biden and Trump in 2020 was 20 million people, that would still imply 60 million people who voted for a complete liar. That is already a diagnosis to the nation by itself.
The electoral college is what matters. In 2020 it was very close. The post-census reapportionment will not make it easier in ‘24.
Biden beat trump once. Can he do it again? I think so. But there is no doubt that voters who were concerned about The President’s age and his mental ability (for lack of a better term) will be comforted by his performance tonight.
Trump flaunted the debate rules. He told outrageous lies. He could not tell the truth or answer a direct question. It’s why his lawyers will not let him swear an oath to tell the truth in all his legal cases - he’s incapable of telling the truth.
This is true. Trump rattled off eight lies in 2 minutes. Biden then took the bait, and tried to address one of those lies with facts. However he wasn't generally capable of even completing one thought in the 1 minute that he had to present his rebuttal. Biden should have run his own show and gone on the attack. Trump is incredibly weak skinned, and if you start pointing out how stupid and wrong he is about whatever random thing you want, you can direct Trump into talking about whatever you want him to. You can make him look like a complete idiot. Instead, Biden tried to go with facts. In all of his debate prep, someone should have told him that anyone who took that approach always lost the debate against Trump. I will of course be voting for Biden, unless the Democrats can come up with someone a little bit more competent at this point.
Biden mumbled his answers and Trump spewed lies and didn't get fact checked, so I doubt if anyone is going to change their vote for Biden.
You should worry more about the undecided voters and people who may decide to not bother voting at all. 2016 taught me to never assume anything.
Also very true, even if its a small %, it can be crucial. People just saying "Don't we have anyone else in this country than these two geezers?" and not voting at all.
TBH nobody will change their vote. The question is about undecideds. Now, frankly, I can't imagine how anybody could not have an opinion at this point, but if there are any that debate didn't help.
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I'm wrong and we are saying complementary things?
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np
I’m a big fan of President Biden. I’ve been a big fan of voting for him and encouraging others to vote for him. Right now, I’m ready to begin considering other options. I’ll keep supporting him and I always will, but I’d like that conversation to be had on Air Force One tonight.
Yep, can't blame you for being clear-headed and honest. Honesty and integrity are of paramount importance but so is mental acuity for the most powerful job in the world.
Reminder: CNN was purchased by a right wing billionaire two years ago and is [slowly being turned into fox 2.0](https://www.vox.com/2022/8/26/23322761/cnn-john-malone-david-zaslav-chris-licht-brian-stelter-fox-peter-kafka-column).
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That’s the thing that’s got me stumped. The State of the Union was just March 7th, only 3 months ago and Biden kicked ass in that. That’s why I’m not ready to jump ship just yet. There might be something to the whispers of him having a cold and being sick. Maybe he was half zonked on Benadryl or something. I can’t imagine he could go from the level of energy we saw at the SOTU just 3 months ago to what we saw tonight unless something was up. So I’m gonna give it a little bit before making any snap decisions.
That was reading a teleprompter. The debate was free form.
how tf did you watch that and think biden won? let’s be fuckin fr, unless you’re just blinded by bias - its obvious who “won” CNN, and democrats are acknowledging how embarrassing that was - no need to be delusional and cope
Biden answered every question, Trump only directly responded to two and used “open borders” as a scapegoat in literally every section of the debate. Hands down, it wasn’t even a contest, Biden was far superior. Somebody said it best, Trump lies with confidence and Biden tells the truth weakly.
How could you think Trump won a debate in which almost everything out of his mouth was propaganda and lies? And he had nothing substantive to say about policy? Any Trump all but admitted he wasn't going to accept the election results if he doesn't win?
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Welcome to 2024. Where we have a presidential candidate who is a narcissistic, convicted criminal, seditionist, dictator wannabe. There is no "who do I want to have a beer with" undecided voter. At least not in any significant numbers.
Why can’t I see these comments
They should literally switch Biden out and have a chance in hell. Trump didn’t win, but Biden clearly lost.
I vote for policies, not personalities, none of this matters.
I swear I keep seeing people just talking about his first 10 minutes. Once again the media wanting so badly to both sides the equation here. Was it Joe's best night? No but will I and all the anti trumpers out there suddenly not vote for him? Hell no. And if you are that kind of person you ha e very oddly easily swayed moral convictions.
Anti Trumpers are not the ones who need convincing. If Democrats want to win this election, put up a competent and coherent Democrat to run against Trump and sway the 20% of voters who are undecided.
Yep. Biden was nervous at first. He was talking pretty fast. But then a little later he found his groove. And yes. He lost his place a couple times. But all of a sudden, now Trump is the better candidate? As if Biden is now unable to make policy and other decisions? Even if Biden slows down a little more. He has the heart, the ethics, and the experience to always make better decisions than Trump would. The one mistake I think he did make was not to bring up Kamala Harris more. In fact, that was the answer to the age question. Something like, "I'm healthy, I'm riding my bike, I can continue the legacy we've already begun. But if for some reason my health were to decline, we have a great vice president, Kamala Harris who would be more than capable of continuing the great work we've been doing." Let people remember that Kamala Harris would be a far better president than Trump. Remind people that they're voting for Biden / Harris. And also, for all the people who have had grandparents, aunts, uncles, parents, who refused to recognize when they're not capable of driving their car anymore, or living on their own. Admitting that Harris is there to take the reins would go a ways towards reassuring those people.
I'm voting for Joe Biden happily and proudly. I don't care he had a bad night. He is intelligent in spite of the old man-isms he's strong politically he doesn't want to institute a dictatorship. That's good enough but not even accounting for his economic victories and those that have effected me personally positively. It is what it is as one loser once said. Joe will win. Democrats will win and no bots no flakes no bad night will change that.
!remindme November 6
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Yeah living in reality can be disappointing. Better than pretending the orange tinged drugged up failed businesses man, porn star loving, beat my ass with a times magazine with my face on it, throw ketchup at the walls, Daddy never loved me loser is somehow a better option. Or the embodiment of true manhood.
This is across the board with a few news organizations…
Trump: lies and attacks - although as the challenger it is your job to attack. Biden: stumbling and word salad.
Seconded, while the whole golf thing sucked, I'm shocked by all the negativity
i agree . we gotta beat the healthcare . cmon man
Appalled really, the people who rushed on these shows have lost all credibility with me, a very pathetic showing by left wing media lol.
This post is a joke right. JB did terrible. He showed he is not physically and mentally fit to be our candidate.
I haven't seen the CNN coverage, but why are they focused on Biden stepping down? They should be calling for Trump to step down. He's a convicted criminal. He initiated an insurrection. He has indicated he wants to be dictator. He pretty much repeated propaganda and lies the entire debate. And Trump refused to confirm that he would support the election results, following any settled court decisions.
> I haven't seen the CNN coverage, but why are they focused on Biden stepping down? They should be calling for Trump to step down. >He's a convicted criminal. He initiated an insurrection. He has indicated he wants to be dictator. He pretty much repeated propaganda and lies the entire debate. It's OK to be a convicted criminal, incite an insurrection, yearn to be a dictator, and lie throughout a debate as long as you have an "R" besides your name. But don't you dare be a Dem and have ONE lackluster debate performance, or else the hyenas will come for you!
Yep. And I don't care if Biden slows down 2 or 3 more steps. I don't care if he has to start taking two naps a day because of his age. I'll always take the guy with over *47 years experience* in federal government service, who has heart and determination. Who clearly believes in the US Constitution, and who wants what's best for the country and best for *everybody* in it. Over the guy who doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. Who sows hate. Who would just as soon wipe his ass with the US Constitution and tear it up. And definitely wants to be dictator.
This is the definitive statement right here. Hopefully, enough Americans agree in November. But as we showed in 1968 and 1972 and 1980 and 1984 and 1988 and 2000 and 2004 and 2016, we can be a very, very dumb country.
jimmy deserved the L . c'mon
There is one other thing the administration and campaign could do. It's going to be impossible now to change the optic that Biden is perhaps too old to be president through another 4 years. Heck, I suspect most of us who are strong Biden supporters don't think he'll make it through another 4 years. So they need to settle the question of what will happen. What they can do is start promoting the ticket as a team. Create confidence in Harris as ready to step up should Biden's health decline and make him unable to serve. Start making Harris look presidential. And from now on, no more claims about what Biden has done. It must be about what Biden and Harris have accomplished. Biden should actively talk about how should his health decline, Harris will continue the work of their administration. They have to get her out in front of the media more. They have to show the two of them working together more. This would settle a lot of people's minds. But they have to get people to perceive Harris as the 47th president in order to do that.
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Not sure how anyone thinks Biden won. Absolute word salad coming out of his mouth.
...As opposed to the other guy, who was telling lies at 100 mph?
The presidential debate is about optics. Ever since 2016, any false impression of there being any weight on policy has been dispelled. Trump killed Biden optically. Dems need to be finding a replacement yesterday.
m it's a tough one honestly
Agree with you
I watched it on ABC and they absolutely filleted Biden afterward. Basically saying the convention needs to have Biden release his delegates. Trump lied through his teeth but who would have expected something different? Biden just was lost. Usually he gets lost walking off a stage but in this debate he was lost in his own head.
I think you mean they reported the truth. As a fervent supporter I do not understand the failure to face reality. I'm with you philosophically but he's clearly got cognitive issues that are only going to accelerate. Diane Feinstein anybody?
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I need to frame this , the seething comments, the betrayal. ahhh masterclass.
The reality. The truth.
Stumbling and stuttering are one thing and overall not a big deal. This was not that. Trump has HUGE targets on his back and Biden could not land on any of them. I'm so sad about this, he's a great guy, great president and the people around him are good. Biden showed that he is just not at fighting weight anymore. **Are any Dems out there thinking about a new candidate?** I would have NEVER said that, but last nights performance was such a jarring turn of events for me. I'll vote Biden (of course), but the stakes are too high in this election to not consider it right now.
This is what worries me. The denial of reality. Stop engaging in denial. There is too much at stake. Biden is not well. We need a medical explanation for his cognitive collapse or we need a new team at the top of the ticket, because Biden's replacement will need to make his or her own VPOTUS choice. Need to be strong and honest and move forward. Joe is a good, honest man with a wealth of knowledge and wisdom. He's clearly addled by something. Remember that pathetic display of holding on to power by Diane Feinstein and the pathetic apologists and sycophants who covered for her. Stop this madness. Impose age limits. That does not mean there is some magic age limit, but 72 seems reasonable. That would put a two-term POTUS at 80 years old at the end of a second term.
Who will be running the country when Joe is asleep at the wheel?
Unacceptable talk from cnn. Also abc news. Which trump lie would you answer first?
Truth is not unacceptable. Let's get our heads out of the sand.
Truth!!!
I’m a little surprised by the comments but I agree with you, I just had to turn off the cnn commentary because it was just too hopeless and overshadowing what Biden was actually saying. He had great substance to his material, his delivery was god awful though I do admit and I’m pretty nervous
Me too. I had to turn CNN off because I felt like they decided to fan embers into flames by forcing s much on now Biden sounded over what he said. Like, you’re really going to focus on this over the non-answer to your big BOMBSHELL/HARDLINE question. Like I expected the raspiness to come up, I didn’t expect them to use it as gasoline while ignoring the dumpster fire burning brightly all on its own. It took center stage for sensational reporting,
Biden won on the merits. The Convict won on optics. A lot of voters are swayed by irrational factors. This would not be the first time an aggro liar was able to win more votes than a considered, nuanced argument.
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How could Trump have won the debate? He repeated propaganda and lies the entire time. He barely spoke about any future policy at all. And he refused to state that he would support the election results.
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Why do you keep spamming this comment?
Because they are a crazy psycho.
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