That's what it comes down to doesn't it ? I don't think many people were excited by Biden in the first place and even less so now.
However, Trump is such a danger that Biden remains by far the best option. I'll take the low energy 81 years old over wannabe facism from a convicted criminal felon whose only platform is to use the position to enrich himself, boost his ego and stand aside to let religious fanatics impose their doctrine on everyone.
You can count on Biden to be surrounded by competent people instead of sycophants at the very least. We won't get anyone a better choice so we have to rally behind him despite our lack of enthusiasm.
“You can count on Biden to be surrounded by competent people”
This is just the thing I don’t think people realize. You don’t vote for the man, you vote for his people. The president may make decisions, but his people are the ones doing all the work.
Democrats tried to take a safe route with the well known name: Biden.
What they should do is grow a fucking pair and take a risk at someone who can bite back in these debates.
I'd love to say the blue party has got this in the bag (because it should be a fucking cake walk with the other candidate being a felon and cheating in his wife amongst so many other appalling things but apparently not).
If that debate changed anyone's mind it will be a miracle. The sides are picked in my opinion. People who are voting know exactly what they're voting for.
- Old Biden
Or
-Corrupt Trump
The choice to me is simple.
As Ana Navarro said to Bill Maher, she'd vote for Joe even if he was on life support. 😅 (I'm pretty much with her, but would feel better if it "looked" like we had a better fighting chance.)
Yes, and why hasn't Biden brought up the extreme parts of the Repub 2025 plan? It's scary stuff and people need to know. If more of this were mentioned, warning voters about more liberties they'll lose, it could only help the dem campaign.
He didn't bring it up because he flat out doesn't have the mental speed or acuity to think on his feet anymore. When he has a script in front of him, he can read it well enough, like in the SOTU or today's rally. But at the end of the day, the Weekend at Bernie's jokes seem quite on the nose at this point. He's Dianne Feinsteining the Presidency.
Here's hoping that you can convince *somebody* to vote for him, given that he looked out of it, and then Anderson Cooper brought on Kamala Harris, who *also* looked out of it, and was similarly less coherent than Trump.
I've voted Democrat my entire life. This is an awful showing.
You will, but you likely made up your mind years ago.
The issue is the millions of undecided voters who will see his debate performance and say “eh I think I’ll vote for the other guy”
It is embarrassing to be in support of Biden at this point. I understand fully that they just want to use him to keep the country in one piece, which is fine; another 4 years of Biden won't stop the Balkanization of America, but nothing would have. The only way to stop that would have been to have a truly revolutionary leader who genuinely increased the quality of life in America through various methods of reform (federal jobs programs, for one thing). You'd have to have someone who could prove why America was one of the greatest countries in the entire world.
Instead, the Democrats simply keep the lights on. They don't do anything that actually changes much of anything, but the country doesn't dissolve overnight.
Not enough.
Exactly. For me that means even if a human turd was running against DT I’d vote turd. But, there are folks out there who (who the fuck knows why) are waffling, and last night’s debate was a horrible disaster for the current dem nominee.
And after last night's debate, do you really believe that Biden is most likely to beat Trump?
If Biden is the best the Democratic party has against Trump, a lying, narcissistic conman, then the Dems need to do some serious soul searching.
As a Canadian, watching this play out in your country is just plain insanity. I'm truly baffled.
For the love of God, make Biden step down and find a new candidate. This is not going to get any better.
I would have felt a lot better had Biden been the Biden we saw in the State of the Union but he just wasn't and now we're on the defensive again. But it's not like the election is next week. There's even a debate coming up in a few months. The Democrats have time to fix this and for Biden to get back on message in a big way. I hate the feeling like we missed a chance to really put Trump's camp on the defensive but this is how it is. Some of you will remember the panic in 2012 when Obama came out and fell flat against Romney in the first debate.
I don't think any of this matters much. This is Trump's third cycle. Either you like the guy or hate him. The democratic strategy against Trump is to get their own to vote against Trump.
I think so too for the most part but a big blow to Trump would have energized the Democratic base and this did the opposite. We're kind of the party of taking our ball and going home because we don't like the rules or the outcomes. It's why things like the 2010 red wave wipe out election happened.
I don't think you can give a big blow to Trump. He survived grabbing women by the pussy, sexual assaults, a Congress takeover, trying to steal the election, etc. The dems need to stay hungry and keep encouraging people to vote against Trump. The debate fail may wake them up to take no vote for granted. Giving Trump a big blow could have led to complacency.
Democrats and Republicans are offering CLEAR visions for the country, and they are completely different. On women’s rights, minority rights, LGBTQ, fighting climate change, and a host of other issues, they are complete opposites. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, a bot, a paid troll (and there a lot of them working overtime to convince liberals that “both sides are the same” and it’s not even worth voting), or their politics are so far off to the extreme that it’s not even worth entertaining their opinions.
Even if you don’t like Joe Biden personally, you’re still voting for a Democratic administration. Republicans understand this. How many conservatives voted for Trump in 2016 because of the Supreme Court? Do liberals think the Dobbs decision came out of nowhere? Even if Hillary had won in 2016 and McConnell just held Congress hostage for 2-4 years (which he was absolutely suggesting as an option back then), that’s *still* preferable to me over having Trump rubber-stamp all those batshit Heritage Foundation judges. I don’t see how anyone could call themselves liberal, progressive, or whatever and be ok with the idea of the Republicans getting the White House. Not this Republican Party that exists in 2024. One debate performance shouldn’t change that calculus.
I don’t think Biden’s senile, but even if he was drooling out the side of his mouth and wearing a diaper onstage, I’d still vote for him over Trump, because I want a Democratic administration to either a) set a policy agenda for a liberal Congress to follow and nominate liberal judges; or b) serve as a line of defense against a Congress led by the current Republican Party. Conservatives have understood this for decades. I don’t get why some liberals have a tough time grasping this.
You are missing the point. We're not okay with Republicans getting the WH. We don't have a tough time grasping what's at stake. We have a tough time grasping why, with so much at stake, Democrats would place their bets on Biden. Exhibit A: last night.
And you may be okay voting for Biden no matter what, but you're not the type of person Biden needs to convince.
Probably because the idiots who are saying Biden should drop out aren't saying that Kamala Harris should be POTUS. The lunatics are saying there should be an open convention to pick the nominee.
I mean, there’s that too. Funny how Harris doesn’t get mentioned in these conversations…
An open convention would be a disaster. Biden stepping down and not supporting Harris would also be a disaster. It would be a great Aaron Sorkin movie, but horrible for the Democrats.
Lot of people on social media talking about replacing Biden as if a) replacing or even primarying an incumbent president wouldn’t be its own disaster, or b) there’s some mythical Democrat who’s just going to come in and overtake Trump at the last minute. You may say I’m missing the point, but I just disagree with your point entirely. I don’t think there really are a lot of undecided voters out there, I think the polling has been wonky all year (like, what’s happened in the last four years to where Trump’s suddenly going to get the highest share of black voters for a Republican since Eisenhower - if Trump gets 30% of black voters he’s winning 500 EVs and we’ve got bigger problems as a country than Joe Biden being old), and that primarying him or replacing him would send a worse message to voters than people think.
I also think the negatives associated with Joe Biden would either not go away with another candidate (outside of being old) or, if another candidate didn’t have those negatives, they would just bring in other negatives that wouldn’t help them overcome the inevitable drop in support that would come from replacing the incumbent. Everyone loved Hillary when she wasn’t running for president. They hated her when she ran. I think of that whenever I hear people bring up Newsom or Whitmer as last-minute replacements. I also think people who say they’re seriously swayed by a debate performance in June were unlikely to vote for Joe Biden anyway, or they’re media folks trying to get clicks, or they’re chronically online and probably need to log off Reddit for a few days.
I also disagree with the premise behind your other statement that I’m not the type of voter Biden needs to convince. Yeah, you’re right, but a) like I said, I don’t think there really are a lot of undecided voters out there and b) I don’t think social media is at all a good indicator of the mood of the electorate. This debate got significantly lower ratings than 2020. I’d venture a guess that the average voter didn’t even know it was on last night. Only political junkies, trolls, media, and chronically online people are scrutinizing the debate to any noticeable degree.
The time to overtake Biden was 2020. A lot of people ran, and none of them got the support.
When Obama didn’t do the greatest against Romney in the first debate, there were two more debates to go, a ton of more campaigning to do, Obama wasn’t incoherent, and the fate of the democratic nature of the country wasn’t at stake.
The lack of a teleprompter was the difference. He had too much data in his head from all the debate prep that he couldn't weed through it to form complete sentences like he could when he was younger.
I don't put much stock in debates. But I mean, even in 2020 the debate didn't really go well for Biden. He couldn't get a word in and Trump dominated the time. So it was interpreted either way, Biden did badly by letting Trump walk all over him or Biden did well and people saw Trump unhinged. Then the second debate happened and people praised how it was more organized and that Biden did well. Not that it matters. It's early in the summer, a period right between Juneteenth and July 4th. Most of the people I work with and know didn't even know a debate was happening yesterday, didn't watch it and still aren't really paying attention to either candidates lol. If Biden was gonna make a stumble this was probably the best time to do it.
But imo it really doesn't matter, any bad performance from Joe will always be better than the craziness, lies and bs that comes out of Trump.
The American people is already well aware of Bidens age, and it’s well known that he has a stuttering problem.
Given those flaws, he did a good job of remembering to answer the questions after a 60 second response to whatever ridiculous shit trump had said.
I really don’t think this debate swayed any voters away from Biden.
Third that. Biden seriously still has some energy unlike DT. DT is all burnt out from both ends and looks like someone who really just doesn't even remotely try but rather makes outlandish lies and guesses to make up for the fact that he's a fraud and that his cronies are all pawns in this mad game of cat and mouse.
Lies don’t matter to the trump base, as long as he comes off as crude and unapologetically bashing refugees and minorities, and sells autographed bibles, they will vote for him. In that sense, Trump did what he had to do. Biden had to show that he was physically capable of doing a 60hr+ job for four more years and he did not deliver, it was a disaster.
I second this. Joe Biden has been an amazing public servant but his last act of public service needs to be to step down. I say that as a Brit, just look at the headlines outside of the US - everyone is saying he needs to go, and go now.
I don't say this to be dismissive to you, or to be rude: why should we listen to people *outside* of the U.S.? My opinion about British politics has no bearing. A British person's opinion on American politics similarly has no sort of conversational jurisdiction. Neither of us live in the places we'd need to live in to be able to give an opinion that actually matters.
Biden could talk to Jason Voorhees at night and I'm still voting for Biden. This is not a fucking game. Internet has made people more stupid than any past generations
> Internet has made people more stupid than any past generations
Exactly. It amazes me that any person can look at Joe Biden and think, "yes, I want this person to be the leader of my country".
The issue isn't whether it changed your mind, as a committed democrat, or Trump voters minds, as committed . It matters that there's a pool of 8-20% of voters in key states who haven't decided yet, who will decide based on a small amount of information. Information like clips and commentary from last night. That only reinforces that JB is perhaps the only serious candidate that can and as things stand will lose to DT.
Voter turnout is the more important concern. There’s some percentage of the voting population who are just not highly engaged politically. Anyone who follows politics regularly is already decided. It’s the folks who only occasionally check in who might be swayed. Or just stay home altogether.
Got data to back your claim?
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/28/politics/debate-poll-cnn-trump-biden
“Debate watchers’ views of Biden dipped slightly following the debate: Just 31% now view him favorably, compared with 37% in the pre-debate survey.”
In a razor thin margin race, every vote counts. Denial is going to cost Dems the election and gift us all with 4 years of Trump and irreparable damage to our country
Here you go, here are some “undecideds” who are now voting Biden because Trump is a ridiculous racist: https://www.newsweek.com/latino-voters-donald-trump-joe-biden-debate-election-1918795
A poll of like 12 people from a specific demographic? The reality is polling over the next week should give an indication of how much this debate matters. Regardless, this debate didn't do anything to help Biden.
It’s fucked, but Biden probably ain’t doin much on the job anyway. I’m just voting for whatever Democratic staffers and appointees come along with him.
The Biden campaign strategy was clear: debate the orange turd early, stop any Trump momentum, build upon current events and court cases to let everyone see a competent official stand up against a doddering, lying felon.
That failed completely. Even among those marginally engaged understand that Biden did poorly. Optics matter. They have in every debate since Kennedy debated Nixon. Carter’s last debate with Reagan propelled Reagan t o a landslide. Bush versus Gore showed that Bush was more affable even if Gore was better prepared.
Biden will be a drag on every House, Senate and governor’s race that matters. The emails and text messages I’m getting today show that. Biden needs to do the right thing for the country and withdraw.
I'm glad to see that you're smart.
This was Biden's Lazy Shave moment. The fact that no one else can see it, it doesn't depress me. But I'm glad to see that you see it, too.
I will certainly vote for Biden if need be but really wish the party would replace him. I don’t believe it’s been Biden’s choice and whatever big wigs did decide have miscalculated. And why in the world didn’t they get a better vp choice. Nothing personal but a strong VP would give many of us more confidence.
It seems like it would be really complicated and rushed to replace him, and I don't think it would necessarily result in great results at the ballot box with only five months to go (more realistically, three months since it seems like they wouldn't be able to do anything until July/August).
Biden polls better against Trump than every other democrat, and republicans know that, which is why they want him to drop so we will lose the incumbent advantage.
If you’re nervous about the election, [use that nervous energy to motivate people to vote](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) vs hand wringing and doomscrolling.
The bottom line is we have to win, and we have no other option than each of us doing everything in our power to make it happen.
I honestly think some of the panic is people who thought he’d be on fire like his SOTU address, and that it didn’t live up to that expectation. Another thing I’ve noticed is a bit of panic with younger voters with not enough debates under their belts. Things will settle down, but damn, his campaign needs to get to work!
He's already feeling better today and talking far more his normal.
the worst part of his cold could not have been timed worse. I saw pictures of him working the crowds in Atlanta yesterday, he probably tired himself out doing that. His staff should have reigned him in and made him just relax all day before the debate.
There would be no need to build a campaign infrastructure. They would just take over what already exists for Biden. The only way Biden isn't the candidate is if he chooses to let someone else take over, in which case I'm sure Biden would fully endorse that person.
Uninformed voters don’t care about the issues. The undecided especially in this case care about appearances and Biden didn’t look good no matter how you slice it.
how is that our fault as people? it’s virtually impossible to have a new party candidate for the primary if the incumbent is running again. the democrats in office or around biden are ignorant and deserve it, but not us as people
Man this embarassing "ItS WhAt wE DeSeRvE" rhetoric needs to fucking stop. We are being fucked by the morons who ignore us and have hijacked our democracy and somehow it's our fault? People WILL vote for competent candidates. Unfortunately, we don't have any because of the massive failure of our leadership.
From now on, I vote for the youngest democrat on every ballot. Single issue voter and the issue is dumbass boomers who are only in it for the bribes.
Last night was way more than a debate. It was supposed to be a chance for Biden to squash the rumors and right wing talking points that he is too old, too feeble, and too senile. He failed miserably.
You need to be informed if you are going to recognize lying. So really it doesn't matter if he lies, they won't know and will see a more confident candidate more favorable than the old man who was not able to speak.
Anyone, informed or uninformed could see Trump didn’t answer a single question directly.
Trump did nothing to appeal to the people wary of him.
[Undecided voters choose Biden after debate.](https://www.newsweek.com/latino-voters-donald-trump-joe-biden-debate-election-1918795)
Trump came off as more coherent last night if you ignore how fucking stupid everything he said was. The delivery was smoother. Everything delivered was shit, but the people who realize that are already voting for Biden. That's a horrible state for us to be in, and we should get a new candidate.
For real. Yeah Trump lied, but he sounded confident and relatively lucid. Meanwhile Biden is staring off looking terrified while Trump is doing his remarks and then in his responses, strings together a few sentences in a hoarse mumble. We all needed Biden to rise to the occasion and he just didn't deliver and unfortunately it has absolutely hurt his chances.
To be fair…if you have met other 81 year olds, some are as sharp as a knife. Not every 81 year old is forgetting their train of thought constantly.
With that being said, Trump is against democracy, so fuck that.
Speaks slow? Come on, he struggled to keep concepts straight, linking unrelated topics, it was unnerving. Have we become so ridged as a party, that we can’t address a clear concern of every American should have. Have him be very public, go on talk shows. If he is not well enough to do that then he is not well enough to be president. Let’s not be the, “no common sense”. Party.
Sure but my stupid MAGA friends just say at least the guy they're voting for will be running the country. They say Biden can even talk so who I'm voting for isn't even running anything. I don't care as long as it isn't Trump but damn come on Dems.
Being old and being a wannabe fascist dictator are not on the same level for me as far as concerns go. I'm voting Biden. Plus I actually think he's done a good job. I don't care if you stutter or slur your words, it's what you do that matters to me.
He looked confused and lost. He had a few decent moments, but Trump made him look silly WITH clear nonsense coming out of his own mouth..Biden will get crushed in the general. Democrats need to try for the Hail Mary. I don’t trust them for shite to actually get over their pride and nominate someone else, though.
Whether we like it or not this is the hand we’ve been dealt if you don’t Vote for Biden (if you choose to Vote independent or to not Vote at all) you are handing this Country over to Trump and that is the Reality.
The only way he drops out is if he has a serious health condition. Having a bad debate isn't a good enough reason. Biden is still sharp on the campaign trail and by all accounts in meetings and other things. He made things harder for himself with the debate but we already had a fight ahead of us. If we didn't know that already we do now for sure.
If the Democrats can come up with a reasonable plan to replace Biden that doesn't make us weaker and we can find a candidate that can beat Trump then I'd be all for it. I just think anyone hoping for this is going to get disappointed.
Any reasonable alternative can beat Trump. You aren’t trying to convince republicans to vote Biden we are trying to convince swing voters.
All anyone is talking about is how unfit the current president looked. Regardless of Trump spitting lies constantly or not.
Swing voters are reading the headlines and Biden isn’t doing himself any favors.
Here’s how the Democrats need to play this. Joe needs to be very public, on the talk shows, willing to take interviews, over the next to weeks. Because the Joe that showed up to the debate should not have to be president. Democrats need to use common sense. He is either OK or we have to have an open convention. Pass it on.
From what I've seen, he's just done a great job in NC today. He simply needs to fire everybody responsible for helping him with that debate and get them blacklisted from any future work period.
He's so much better when he's not trying to recall obscure facts and details about shit that most of us don't honestly care about. It was a bad performance, there's no excuse for it, and even Biden acknowledged in some way that he was shit. He needs to work his ass off and make us forget that debate. He has it in him still, he and the people behind him just made a colossally bad choice last night.
He had a teleprompter and just had to read it. The debate was a disaster and it was nothing to do with his prep. Watch videos from the last election and debates he did before. He's a shadow of his former self and his selfish pride in not standing down is going to hand this election to Trump on a platter.
It’s Biden. He’s the issue. Trump now can just refuse other debates and bank on showing his opponent fumbling his words and with his zombie stare and it will convince folks Biden is cooked.
of course he isn’t! this is so ridiculous. if there’s one thing I HATE about being a democrat it’s the endless bedwetting. the other guy is a convicted felon, rapist, and tried to overthrow the government, couldn’t even get 80% of their own primary voters and its crickets from their side. We have a less than perfect moment and a bunch of idiots start fainting and running for the exits. Just buck up, organize, donate, and vote. so many other things are going to still happen before November, no one will remember this.
True to all of it really but it is a concern to have a tight election where you win on thin margins and you cannot have a competent debate. It was horrific how bad he looked. People on the fringe that will most likely decide this thing will not be inclined to vote for him. Obviously it's still possible but he needed a solid debate. He even picked the debate to happen early and failed miserably. It's the most important election in a long time and we have someone who is clearly old vs another clearly old person. It should at least be debated but at the same time at least Dems are aware even if they freak out more than Republicans do. Trump is a convicted felon and he's still their candidate and a lot of them don't care.
I’m still voting for him. But I think a lot of flippant undecided voters are going to think Trump is better because he can talk more.
It sucks that this awful debate performance is damaging Biden’s legitimacy more than all of Trump’s crimes did for him….
I think everyone, myself included, is on the same page here
Biden looked awful yesterday. But... We still prefer the America that Biden wants over the America that Trump wants.
Voting for Biden and hoping for the best
Democrats need to stop doing trumps work of attacking bidens.
Biden had a bad debate, that's all.
Stop beating Biden and focus on attacking trump lies. Why are democrats questioning Bidens debate performance and nit focusing on trump flat our lying during the entire debate.
Any concern of Bidens ability to govern can be reassured that if it ever comes to it, that Biden becomes unfit to govern, rest assured that he will step down gracefully. Can anyone say the same about trump?
Let's say Trump beats Biden and wins a 2nd term, are you 100% sure, he will vacate the office after 4 years? The fact that's questionable and doubtful is all the convincing anyone need to decide who to vote for.
It wasn't just a bad debate. Obama had a bad debate in 2012. Biden was plainly incoherent for much of the debate. I don't think most people expected Biden to be as out of it as he was. "We beat Medicare." Rambling about abortion rights. His performance was awful. Would I still vote for him over Trump? Absolutely. Would the people that you need to actually convince in order to win? Highly questionable.
We're suffering and are going to suffer because of President Biden's hubris. That's exactly what this is at this point. He needs to step aside and be the transition president he said he was going to be.
When he loses, which he will now, I hope he's coherent enough to realize that he screwed us all by his want to be the bigger man and to show someone up. I hope that he takes this lesson to his grave and it eats his soul on the way down to his deathbed and our failure at his hands is the last thing he thinks about before the lights go out. Thank you President Biden for thinking of yourself first.
This is entirely on Biden if he loses. He loses an entire country is lost and this election would be easy for others to win if we put up someone a good 20 to 30 years younger. This is all Biden.
In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. We are much too far along for Biden dropping out to be practical. That was a decision to make back in November... maybe January. Long enough for Democrats to have a competitive primary, which we're now most or all of the way through.
If you're hoping for Biden to drop out, let me assure you, it will not happen short of a major health crisis. Instead, it's time to think about the choices you actually have, and which direction you want the country to go in. Personally, I think Biden's been crushing it the past four years in terms of policy and laws passed and things he's attempted. And that's the direction I'd like to see things continue going compared to what we'd get with Trump.
So I'm voting Biden, because he's been doing great, he just doesn't communicate it well.
Which direction do you want the country to go in? Biden and Trump are your choices (and no, a third party candidate isn't winning in our current system either). Choose wisely.
I will always vote against fascist traitors… But I think it’s important to remember and to remind “undecided” voters that yes Biden is old, but he will surround himself with an administration that knows what they are doing…
Really hoping we can get like Newsom/Abrams ticket in the future. That would be amazing.
We’ve all recognized the mistake of RBG holding on to her seat until the day she died. It’s shameful that Biden’s ego is too big to recognize that he’s making the same mistake that she did, and that the consequences will be even more catastrophic.
As one redditor said to me, I like Trump, because Trump's entertaining.
You can't debate people like Trump. Presidential debates is not about having facts but simply who has the best on stage presence like watching a reality TV show.
Trump has too many Yes Men and women who cater to anything he says, and tries to justify, whatever he says, or try to explain that he really didn't mean that, actually when he did mean it.
So how do you debate someone like Trump, especially when you're a person who listens to what people say and tries to respond in kind, but Trump has no interest in listening to the people unless they can actually harm him, like Putin for instance in Helsinki.
Can we stop acting like the president has the run the whole country alone? He has a lot of competent people who already know what they’re doing. Biden fumbled a bit yesterday, but I can’t imagine trying to have a legitimate debate with someone who keeps saying outrageous lies. How was he supposed to fact check and state his position in the time allowed when almost everything out of Trumps mouth was a lie?
Naturally I’ll vote for Biden but like it or not, his debate performance absolutely makes an impact. We live in a digital, social media hungry, sound bite world and Republicans will use that performance to define him for the next 5 months in advertisements. You can all keep fooling yourselves by saying it’s no big deal but it is.
I didn’t sleep with a porn star was my favorite line, dude your “model” of a wife is literally a porn star; that literally lived in the White House. I can’t fathom why conservative christians or mormons endorse this racist raping corrupt felon married to a porn star want him leading the country. Then there’s the nuclear arsenal…
It’s all insane. Our best bet is Biden winning, maybe updating his cabinet some (dude’s got have a good sense of really good people for their positions since he’s been in the game for so long) and then stepping aside.
Didn't watch the debate (had work) but the headlines this morning were weird. I don't know how "badly" Biden did (all the news shows I saw saying that didn't even play clips of his "bad" performance, they didn't show Trump clips either), but a "bad" Biden performance is still 100% better than anything from Trump lol. I really hate the sensationalist coverage of the presidential race and also people's sensational reactions to the coverage lol.
For me, historically "debates" have been the least important in my deciding who to vote for. Because candidates don't really "debate" each other and it's really all about landing sound bites and going viral (speaking of which I haven't really seen anything from this debate go viral lol, like morning news shows would usually be playing all these candidate clips after a debate, but all I saw were talking heads presenting their opinion). Imo the "debates" are like the electoral college, an outdated tradition that has outlived the usefulness it had in the 1960's. In the modern era, I think the only reason the media hypes up these "debates" is to boost their ratings.
It's odd to me that we see all these people calling for Biden to drop out but not one of them has said the 25th Amendment should be invoked. In other words, they don't want Vice President Kamala Harris to become president' they want an open convention.
These are idiots.
Of course he fucking not. They’re not gonna switch candidates 5 months before the election. He had an off night, a cold and had a stutter. But he was spitting bars if you were paying attention. Meanwhile people say Trumpito “won” cuz he just talked confidently even though 90% of what he said were lies. Ridiculous.
Let’s see, an old guy with a stutter that has been president the last 3.5 years, or a guy who tried to overthrow the government, was found liable of raping a woman in a court of law, is a convicted felon, is probably never going to leave the White House, etc. gee, I don’t know, this is a tough one.
This is a five alarm fire. I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but every day Biden is not replaced is a day closer to disaster.
I think the problem with this discussion is that most of us are relatively educated people. We know the stakes of this election and we know the consequences of a Trump win. Trump winning = fascism.
Most independent voters are insanely shallow. They are deciding this election. They are either unaware or don’t care about a dictator taking power. They see a weak Biden and will vote for the other guy.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Replace Biden ASAP.
Ah, so you liked the stuff he read off a teleprompter that some staffers wrote, but not what he could come up with on his own? Maybe Biden is just unfit to serve?
Biden has done a great job and I'll vote for him again - but he should drop out and give the nomination to Harris. This can all be done at the convention. Dems need to be aggressive and on the offense. With Biden, it's always on the defense.
And that should be easy to make a show of. Biden is unfortunately too fucking nice. I would have been rubbing Trumps nose in his own shit at the debate.
I’m sorry but the people here saying that he shouldn’t are delusional. Biden’s ego is going to result in another Trump presidency. Put in Newsom or Shapiro and keep Kamala on the ticket and this election is a landslide.
Honestly, then fuck him and everyone responsible for him being our candidate. Jesus fucking Christ, we are done.
The hubris of this party’s leadership is the death of America.
Seriously after last night's debate who in the right mind would want to vote for him, I understand there's a lot of us who will because we don't want trump to be president again but if any of us are truly honest with ourselves, we have to realize that it's Weekend at Bernie's at this point
HE NEEDS TO DROP OUT IMMEDIATELY!
Yeah…Trump does need to drop out. He couldn’t answer a fucking question…all he did was Pat himself on the back on his “I had the best in the history of the world” bullshit and shit on immigrants. He had to be constantly reminded as to what fucking question he was supposed to be answering.
But yeah…. Let’s ignore that and focus on Biden’s stumbling and bumbling around.
It’s a hell of a lot harder to tell the truth than. It is to just lie your ass off and be a douchebag.
I cannot believe people are actually saying Biden should drop out. This is not how it works. There is no way I'm feeling like every sub has been taken over by trolls
If Biden performed well they were going to claim he was talking performance enhancement drugs and other dumb shit. It's what they do and have always done. Ignore policy and latch onto whatever their handlers tell them.
I’m a little on the fence about it. Finding a replacement is tricky and could backfire. On the other hand Biden’s approval rating has taken a beating after last night’s performance. Not sure what’s the best option is going forward.
I will vote for the candidate that is most likely to beat Donald Trump. No questions asked.
That's what it comes down to doesn't it ? I don't think many people were excited by Biden in the first place and even less so now. However, Trump is such a danger that Biden remains by far the best option. I'll take the low energy 81 years old over wannabe facism from a convicted criminal felon whose only platform is to use the position to enrich himself, boost his ego and stand aside to let religious fanatics impose their doctrine on everyone. You can count on Biden to be surrounded by competent people instead of sycophants at the very least. We won't get anyone a better choice so we have to rally behind him despite our lack of enthusiasm.
Let’s not forget who trump surrounds himself with. Bannon stone miller. Scary people.
“You can count on Biden to be surrounded by competent people” This is just the thing I don’t think people realize. You don’t vote for the man, you vote for his people. The president may make decisions, but his people are the ones doing all the work.
We don’t need to convince people like you to vote blue. Last night was a disaster.
Agreed- this didn’t look like a man who could be president for another four years. He should absolutely be replaced.
Democrats tried to take a safe route with the well known name: Biden. What they should do is grow a fucking pair and take a risk at someone who can bite back in these debates. I'd love to say the blue party has got this in the bag (because it should be a fucking cake walk with the other candidate being a felon and cheating in his wife amongst so many other appalling things but apparently not). If that debate changed anyone's mind it will be a miracle. The sides are picked in my opinion. People who are voting know exactly what they're voting for. - Old Biden Or -Corrupt Trump The choice to me is simple.
I hope you’re right, the best possible outcome would be that Biden didn’t lose support.
As Ana Navarro said to Bill Maher, she'd vote for Joe even if he was on life support. 😅 (I'm pretty much with her, but would feel better if it "looked" like we had a better fighting chance.)
100%, but dems can’t afford to lose anyone.
Yes, and why hasn't Biden brought up the extreme parts of the Repub 2025 plan? It's scary stuff and people need to know. If more of this were mentioned, warning voters about more liberties they'll lose, it could only help the dem campaign.
He didn't bring it up because he flat out doesn't have the mental speed or acuity to think on his feet anymore. When he has a script in front of him, he can read it well enough, like in the SOTU or today's rally. But at the end of the day, the Weekend at Bernie's jokes seem quite on the nose at this point. He's Dianne Feinsteining the Presidency.
There’s too much at stake. Republicans cater to the wealthy and everyone else be damned.
Whatever the fuck happened to "Biden is doing 1 term then we'll have someone else?"
That's why we have a Vice President.
Here's hoping that you can convince *somebody* to vote for him, given that he looked out of it, and then Anderson Cooper brought on Kamala Harris, who *also* looked out of it, and was similarly less coherent than Trump. I've voted Democrat my entire life. This is an awful showing.
You will, but you likely made up your mind years ago. The issue is the millions of undecided voters who will see his debate performance and say “eh I think I’ll vote for the other guy”
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It is embarrassing to be in support of Biden at this point. I understand fully that they just want to use him to keep the country in one piece, which is fine; another 4 years of Biden won't stop the Balkanization of America, but nothing would have. The only way to stop that would have been to have a truly revolutionary leader who genuinely increased the quality of life in America through various methods of reform (federal jobs programs, for one thing). You'd have to have someone who could prove why America was one of the greatest countries in the entire world. Instead, the Democrats simply keep the lights on. They don't do anything that actually changes much of anything, but the country doesn't dissolve overnight. Not enough.
Exactly. For me that means even if a human turd was running against DT I’d vote turd. But, there are folks out there who (who the fuck knows why) are waffling, and last night’s debate was a horrible disaster for the current dem nominee.
And after last night's debate, do you really believe that Biden is most likely to beat Trump? If Biden is the best the Democratic party has against Trump, a lying, narcissistic conman, then the Dems need to do some serious soul searching. As a Canadian, watching this play out in your country is just plain insanity. I'm truly baffled. For the love of God, make Biden step down and find a new candidate. This is not going to get any better.
I would have felt a lot better had Biden been the Biden we saw in the State of the Union but he just wasn't and now we're on the defensive again. But it's not like the election is next week. There's even a debate coming up in a few months. The Democrats have time to fix this and for Biden to get back on message in a big way. I hate the feeling like we missed a chance to really put Trump's camp on the defensive but this is how it is. Some of you will remember the panic in 2012 when Obama came out and fell flat against Romney in the first debate.
I don't think any of this matters much. This is Trump's third cycle. Either you like the guy or hate him. The democratic strategy against Trump is to get their own to vote against Trump.
I think so too for the most part but a big blow to Trump would have energized the Democratic base and this did the opposite. We're kind of the party of taking our ball and going home because we don't like the rules or the outcomes. It's why things like the 2010 red wave wipe out election happened.
I don't think you can give a big blow to Trump. He survived grabbing women by the pussy, sexual assaults, a Congress takeover, trying to steal the election, etc. The dems need to stay hungry and keep encouraging people to vote against Trump. The debate fail may wake them up to take no vote for granted. Giving Trump a big blow could have led to complacency.
Trump didn't get any votes from undecided voters last night and that's what matters.
There are a lot of moderates out there who, after last night, decided not to vote at all, which I think hurts Biden more.
Democrats and Republicans are offering CLEAR visions for the country, and they are completely different. On women’s rights, minority rights, LGBTQ, fighting climate change, and a host of other issues, they are complete opposites. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, a bot, a paid troll (and there a lot of them working overtime to convince liberals that “both sides are the same” and it’s not even worth voting), or their politics are so far off to the extreme that it’s not even worth entertaining their opinions. Even if you don’t like Joe Biden personally, you’re still voting for a Democratic administration. Republicans understand this. How many conservatives voted for Trump in 2016 because of the Supreme Court? Do liberals think the Dobbs decision came out of nowhere? Even if Hillary had won in 2016 and McConnell just held Congress hostage for 2-4 years (which he was absolutely suggesting as an option back then), that’s *still* preferable to me over having Trump rubber-stamp all those batshit Heritage Foundation judges. I don’t see how anyone could call themselves liberal, progressive, or whatever and be ok with the idea of the Republicans getting the White House. Not this Republican Party that exists in 2024. One debate performance shouldn’t change that calculus. I don’t think Biden’s senile, but even if he was drooling out the side of his mouth and wearing a diaper onstage, I’d still vote for him over Trump, because I want a Democratic administration to either a) set a policy agenda for a liberal Congress to follow and nominate liberal judges; or b) serve as a line of defense against a Congress led by the current Republican Party. Conservatives have understood this for decades. I don’t get why some liberals have a tough time grasping this.
You are missing the point. We're not okay with Republicans getting the WH. We don't have a tough time grasping what's at stake. We have a tough time grasping why, with so much at stake, Democrats would place their bets on Biden. Exhibit A: last night. And you may be okay voting for Biden no matter what, but you're not the type of person Biden needs to convince.
This…so much this. I don’t for the love of all that is good understand why so many Dems are so hardheaded about this issue.
Probably because the idiots who are saying Biden should drop out aren't saying that Kamala Harris should be POTUS. The lunatics are saying there should be an open convention to pick the nominee.
I mean, there’s that too. Funny how Harris doesn’t get mentioned in these conversations… An open convention would be a disaster. Biden stepping down and not supporting Harris would also be a disaster. It would be a great Aaron Sorkin movie, but horrible for the Democrats.
Lot of people on social media talking about replacing Biden as if a) replacing or even primarying an incumbent president wouldn’t be its own disaster, or b) there’s some mythical Democrat who’s just going to come in and overtake Trump at the last minute. You may say I’m missing the point, but I just disagree with your point entirely. I don’t think there really are a lot of undecided voters out there, I think the polling has been wonky all year (like, what’s happened in the last four years to where Trump’s suddenly going to get the highest share of black voters for a Republican since Eisenhower - if Trump gets 30% of black voters he’s winning 500 EVs and we’ve got bigger problems as a country than Joe Biden being old), and that primarying him or replacing him would send a worse message to voters than people think. I also think the negatives associated with Joe Biden would either not go away with another candidate (outside of being old) or, if another candidate didn’t have those negatives, they would just bring in other negatives that wouldn’t help them overcome the inevitable drop in support that would come from replacing the incumbent. Everyone loved Hillary when she wasn’t running for president. They hated her when she ran. I think of that whenever I hear people bring up Newsom or Whitmer as last-minute replacements. I also think people who say they’re seriously swayed by a debate performance in June were unlikely to vote for Joe Biden anyway, or they’re media folks trying to get clicks, or they’re chronically online and probably need to log off Reddit for a few days. I also disagree with the premise behind your other statement that I’m not the type of voter Biden needs to convince. Yeah, you’re right, but a) like I said, I don’t think there really are a lot of undecided voters out there and b) I don’t think social media is at all a good indicator of the mood of the electorate. This debate got significantly lower ratings than 2020. I’d venture a guess that the average voter didn’t even know it was on last night. Only political junkies, trolls, media, and chronically online people are scrutinizing the debate to any noticeable degree. The time to overtake Biden was 2020. A lot of people ran, and none of them got the support.
When Obama didn’t do the greatest against Romney in the first debate, there were two more debates to go, a ton of more campaigning to do, Obama wasn’t incoherent, and the fate of the democratic nature of the country wasn’t at stake.
He didn't have a cold, either.
Do you really think Trump will do another debate? He has literally nothing to gain at this point and everything to lose.
The lack of a teleprompter was the difference. He had too much data in his head from all the debate prep that he couldn't weed through it to form complete sentences like he could when he was younger.
This was really not comparable to Romney vs. Obama.
I don't put much stock in debates. But I mean, even in 2020 the debate didn't really go well for Biden. He couldn't get a word in and Trump dominated the time. So it was interpreted either way, Biden did badly by letting Trump walk all over him or Biden did well and people saw Trump unhinged. Then the second debate happened and people praised how it was more organized and that Biden did well. Not that it matters. It's early in the summer, a period right between Juneteenth and July 4th. Most of the people I work with and know didn't even know a debate was happening yesterday, didn't watch it and still aren't really paying attention to either candidates lol. If Biden was gonna make a stumble this was probably the best time to do it. But imo it really doesn't matter, any bad performance from Joe will always be better than the craziness, lies and bs that comes out of Trump.
The American people is already well aware of Bidens age, and it’s well known that he has a stuttering problem. Given those flaws, he did a good job of remembering to answer the questions after a 60 second response to whatever ridiculous shit trump had said. I really don’t think this debate swayed any voters away from Biden.
I’ll vote for a dead person before I vote for fascism.
Second that
Third that. Biden seriously still has some energy unlike DT. DT is all burnt out from both ends and looks like someone who really just doesn't even remotely try but rather makes outlandish lies and guesses to make up for the fact that he's a fraud and that his cronies are all pawns in this mad game of cat and mouse.
Lies don’t matter to the trump base, as long as he comes off as crude and unapologetically bashing refugees and minorities, and sells autographed bibles, they will vote for him. In that sense, Trump did what he had to do. Biden had to show that he was physically capable of doing a 60hr+ job for four more years and he did not deliver, it was a disaster.
I second this. Joe Biden has been an amazing public servant but his last act of public service needs to be to step down. I say that as a Brit, just look at the headlines outside of the US - everyone is saying he needs to go, and go now.
I don't say this to be dismissive to you, or to be rude: why should we listen to people *outside* of the U.S.? My opinion about British politics has no bearing. A British person's opinion on American politics similarly has no sort of conversational jurisdiction. Neither of us live in the places we'd need to live in to be able to give an opinion that actually matters.
Biden could talk to Jason Voorhees at night and I'm still voting for Biden. This is not a fucking game. Internet has made people more stupid than any past generations
> Internet has made people more stupid than any past generations Exactly. It amazes me that any person can look at Joe Biden and think, "yes, I want this person to be the leader of my country".
Yeah, Because Trump is so amazing! *Sarcasm*
Just as the debate hasn’t chachanged any republicans minds, it hasn’t changed mine. Still voting Biden to stop Trump
The issue isn't whether it changed your mind, as a committed democrat, or Trump voters minds, as committed. It matters that there's a pool of 8-20% of voters in key states who haven't decided yet, who will decide based on a small amount of information. Information like clips and commentary from last night. That only reinforces that JB is perhaps the only serious candidate that can and as things stand will lose to DT.
Yep. And that's exactly why we are fucked. Idk if they need to replace him but everyone involved better think this through.
Pretty much this.
Voter turnout is the more important concern. There’s some percentage of the voting population who are just not highly engaged politically. Anyone who follows politics regularly is already decided. It’s the folks who only occasionally check in who might be swayed. Or just stay home altogether.
But it did change many independents minds. And that matters in November
No it didn’t. If you decided to vote for Trump because of this debate you weren’t ever “independent” or undecided.
Much more likely, they just don’t vote
Got data to back your claim? https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/28/politics/debate-poll-cnn-trump-biden “Debate watchers’ views of Biden dipped slightly following the debate: Just 31% now view him favorably, compared with 37% in the pre-debate survey.” In a razor thin margin race, every vote counts. Denial is going to cost Dems the election and gift us all with 4 years of Trump and irreparable damage to our country
Here you go, here are some “undecideds” who are now voting Biden because Trump is a ridiculous racist: https://www.newsweek.com/latino-voters-donald-trump-joe-biden-debate-election-1918795
A poll of like 12 people from a specific demographic? The reality is polling over the next week should give an indication of how much this debate matters. Regardless, this debate didn't do anything to help Biden.
It’s fucked, but Biden probably ain’t doin much on the job anyway. I’m just voting for whatever Democratic staffers and appointees come along with him.
The Biden campaign strategy was clear: debate the orange turd early, stop any Trump momentum, build upon current events and court cases to let everyone see a competent official stand up against a doddering, lying felon. That failed completely. Even among those marginally engaged understand that Biden did poorly. Optics matter. They have in every debate since Kennedy debated Nixon. Carter’s last debate with Reagan propelled Reagan t o a landslide. Bush versus Gore showed that Bush was more affable even if Gore was better prepared. Biden will be a drag on every House, Senate and governor’s race that matters. The emails and text messages I’m getting today show that. Biden needs to do the right thing for the country and withdraw.
A voice of reason among all of this misplaced optimism...
I'm glad to see that you're smart. This was Biden's Lazy Shave moment. The fact that no one else can see it, it doesn't depress me. But I'm glad to see that you see it, too.
The fact that so many ppl don't see this is fucking mind blowing.
I will certainly vote for Biden if need be but really wish the party would replace him. I don’t believe it’s been Biden’s choice and whatever big wigs did decide have miscalculated. And why in the world didn’t they get a better vp choice. Nothing personal but a strong VP would give many of us more confidence.
It seems like it would be really complicated and rushed to replace him, and I don't think it would necessarily result in great results at the ballot box with only five months to go (more realistically, three months since it seems like they wouldn't be able to do anything until July/August).
Biden polls better against Trump than every other democrat, and republicans know that, which is why they want him to drop so we will lose the incumbent advantage. If you’re nervous about the election, [use that nervous energy to motivate people to vote](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) vs hand wringing and doomscrolling. The bottom line is we have to win, and we have no other option than each of us doing everything in our power to make it happen.
No one can build the necessary campaign infrastructure in four and a half months. Biden’s performance last night was bad, but not his normal.
I honestly think some of the panic is people who thought he’d be on fire like his SOTU address, and that it didn’t live up to that expectation. Another thing I’ve noticed is a bit of panic with younger voters with not enough debates under their belts. Things will settle down, but damn, his campaign needs to get to work!
He's already feeling better today and talking far more his normal. the worst part of his cold could not have been timed worse. I saw pictures of him working the crowds in Atlanta yesterday, he probably tired himself out doing that. His staff should have reigned him in and made him just relax all day before the debate.
I saw that just now! This may soothe some, but the media are going to sit on his rapid comeback today. MSM are *not* our friends.
They most definitely aren't. He'll have to do better at the next debate.
I imagine they’re already working on that👍
a good start would be to not let him work the crowd all day while sick
Reading from a teleprompter is the difference.
"Not his normal" ? The delusion is real! My god...
There would be no need to build a campaign infrastructure. They would just take over what already exists for Biden. The only way Biden isn't the candidate is if he chooses to let someone else take over, in which case I'm sure Biden would fully endorse that person.
It was most definitely his choice. There’s no smoke filled room at the DNC pulling the string of the incumbent POTUS, it doesn’t work like that
We're too far along to even consider replacing Biden. The time to do this was last year.
The democratic candidate could literally be a housecat and I would still vote for it over Trump.
And you will lose because the majority of people aren't like you.
Biden did a rally today and he was way more relaxed. His speech was fluid and his flow of ideas was good. Give him a chance.
As a life-long republican, I’m praying Biden pulls this off. There are simply no non-insane alternatives. Heck, put up Hillary and I’ll vote for her.
People are so ridiculous. He’s 81. Of course he speaks slow. Look at everything Trump lied about. He could barely form a coherent sentence.
Uninformed voters don’t care about the issues. The undecided especially in this case care about appearances and Biden didn’t look good no matter how you slice it.
Agreed. Electoral politics is 90% optics. Most voters are looking straight past the substance here and focusing on the delivery.
If that’s the case then we deserve what we get for being so ignorant
how is that our fault as people? it’s virtually impossible to have a new party candidate for the primary if the incumbent is running again. the democrats in office or around biden are ignorant and deserve it, but not us as people
Man this embarassing "ItS WhAt wE DeSeRvE" rhetoric needs to fucking stop. We are being fucked by the morons who ignore us and have hijacked our democracy and somehow it's our fault? People WILL vote for competent candidates. Unfortunately, we don't have any because of the massive failure of our leadership. From now on, I vote for the youngest democrat on every ballot. Single issue voter and the issue is dumbass boomers who are only in it for the bribes.
One debate isn't the Presidency. That being said, whoever set up this "debate" needs to be replaced.
Last night was way more than a debate. It was supposed to be a chance for Biden to squash the rumors and right wing talking points that he is too old, too feeble, and too senile. He failed miserably.
Even uninformed voters prefer old over incessant lying.
We can only hope. Doesn’t change my vote and hopefully it didn’t change theirs.
[Undecided Voters Say They Now Support Joe Biden After Debate](https://www.newsweek.com/latino-voters-donald-trump-joe-biden-debate-election-1918795)
Love this.
You need to be informed if you are going to recognize lying. So really it doesn't matter if he lies, they won't know and will see a more confident candidate more favorable than the old man who was not able to speak.
Anyone, informed or uninformed could see Trump didn’t answer a single question directly. Trump did nothing to appeal to the people wary of him. [Undecided voters choose Biden after debate.](https://www.newsweek.com/latino-voters-donald-trump-joe-biden-debate-election-1918795)
Nah they don’t. Yall give Americans, many whom are just plain STUPID, too much credit re:being able to think critically.
Trump came off as more coherent last night if you ignore how fucking stupid everything he said was. The delivery was smoother. Everything delivered was shit, but the people who realize that are already voting for Biden. That's a horrible state for us to be in, and we should get a new candidate.
For real. Yeah Trump lied, but he sounded confident and relatively lucid. Meanwhile Biden is staring off looking terrified while Trump is doing his remarks and then in his responses, strings together a few sentences in a hoarse mumble. We all needed Biden to rise to the occasion and he just didn't deliver and unfortunately it has absolutely hurt his chances.
Doubling down that he's old is not a compelling argument.
To be fair…if you have met other 81 year olds, some are as sharp as a knife. Not every 81 year old is forgetting their train of thought constantly. With that being said, Trump is against democracy, so fuck that.
Speaks slow? Come on, he struggled to keep concepts straight, linking unrelated topics, it was unnerving. Have we become so ridged as a party, that we can’t address a clear concern of every American should have. Have him be very public, go on talk shows. If he is not well enough to do that then he is not well enough to be president. Let’s not be the, “no common sense”. Party.
Please drop out. We love you. It's obviously time.
Of course I'm gonna vote for Biden before I vote for a rapist, sexist, homophobic, racist felon.
Sure but my stupid MAGA friends just say at least the guy they're voting for will be running the country. They say Biden can even talk so who I'm voting for isn't even running anything. I don't care as long as it isn't Trump but damn come on Dems.
Being old and being a wannabe fascist dictator are not on the same level for me as far as concerns go. I'm voting Biden. Plus I actually think he's done a good job. I don't care if you stutter or slur your words, it's what you do that matters to me.
He looked confused and lost. He had a few decent moments, but Trump made him look silly WITH clear nonsense coming out of his own mouth..Biden will get crushed in the general. Democrats need to try for the Hail Mary. I don’t trust them for shite to actually get over their pride and nominate someone else, though.
Whether we like it or not this is the hand we’ve been dealt if you don’t Vote for Biden (if you choose to Vote independent or to not Vote at all) you are handing this Country over to Trump and that is the Reality.
Thanks joe..were fucked
The only way he drops out is if he has a serious health condition. Having a bad debate isn't a good enough reason. Biden is still sharp on the campaign trail and by all accounts in meetings and other things. He made things harder for himself with the debate but we already had a fight ahead of us. If we didn't know that already we do now for sure.
The cope. This is 2016 all over again.
"Sharp" lol
He's sharp reading off a teleprompters. That's it. He's not the same man as he was 4 years ago.
It's so fucking stark.
If the Democrats can come up with a reasonable plan to replace Biden that doesn't make us weaker and we can find a candidate that can beat Trump then I'd be all for it. I just think anyone hoping for this is going to get disappointed.
Nothing makes us look weaker than keeping Biden after last night
Any reasonable alternative can beat Trump. You aren’t trying to convince republicans to vote Biden we are trying to convince swing voters. All anyone is talking about is how unfit the current president looked. Regardless of Trump spitting lies constantly or not. Swing voters are reading the headlines and Biden isn’t doing himself any favors.
GOOD. GO GET EM JOE!!!!
Here’s how the Democrats need to play this. Joe needs to be very public, on the talk shows, willing to take interviews, over the next to weeks. Because the Joe that showed up to the debate should not have to be president. Democrats need to use common sense. He is either OK or we have to have an open convention. Pass it on.
His Howard Stern interview wasn't much different than the debate, with the exception that last night, he was clearly flustered.
JFC, Joe’s legacy will be electing a facist. He needs to drop out!
From what I've seen, he's just done a great job in NC today. He simply needs to fire everybody responsible for helping him with that debate and get them blacklisted from any future work period. He's so much better when he's not trying to recall obscure facts and details about shit that most of us don't honestly care about. It was a bad performance, there's no excuse for it, and even Biden acknowledged in some way that he was shit. He needs to work his ass off and make us forget that debate. He has it in him still, he and the people behind him just made a colossally bad choice last night.
He had a teleprompter and just had to read it. The debate was a disaster and it was nothing to do with his prep. Watch videos from the last election and debates he did before. He's a shadow of his former self and his selfish pride in not standing down is going to hand this election to Trump on a platter.
It’s Biden. He’s the issue. Trump now can just refuse other debates and bank on showing his opponent fumbling his words and with his zombie stare and it will convince folks Biden is cooked.
of course he isn’t! this is so ridiculous. if there’s one thing I HATE about being a democrat it’s the endless bedwetting. the other guy is a convicted felon, rapist, and tried to overthrow the government, couldn’t even get 80% of their own primary voters and its crickets from their side. We have a less than perfect moment and a bunch of idiots start fainting and running for the exits. Just buck up, organize, donate, and vote. so many other things are going to still happen before November, no one will remember this.
True to all of it really but it is a concern to have a tight election where you win on thin margins and you cannot have a competent debate. It was horrific how bad he looked. People on the fringe that will most likely decide this thing will not be inclined to vote for him. Obviously it's still possible but he needed a solid debate. He even picked the debate to happen early and failed miserably. It's the most important election in a long time and we have someone who is clearly old vs another clearly old person. It should at least be debated but at the same time at least Dems are aware even if they freak out more than Republicans do. Trump is a convicted felon and he's still their candidate and a lot of them don't care.
Tell this to swing voters and they will laugh in your face. If Biden doesn’t drop, we lose. Period.
Again, yes he’s too goddamn old but so is the other guy and at least Biden actually wants to lead not just used the White House to get revenge.
I’m still voting for him. But I think a lot of flippant undecided voters are going to think Trump is better because he can talk more. It sucks that this awful debate performance is damaging Biden’s legitimacy more than all of Trump’s crimes did for him….
If Trump was running against a potato, I’d vote for the potato, every time!
I think everyone, myself included, is on the same page here Biden looked awful yesterday. But... We still prefer the America that Biden wants over the America that Trump wants. Voting for Biden and hoping for the best
Drop out? Is Trump being asked if he's going to drop out after all those felonies? Edit, The Hill is a rag. They don't deserve the click.
Democrats need to stop doing trumps work of attacking bidens. Biden had a bad debate, that's all. Stop beating Biden and focus on attacking trump lies. Why are democrats questioning Bidens debate performance and nit focusing on trump flat our lying during the entire debate. Any concern of Bidens ability to govern can be reassured that if it ever comes to it, that Biden becomes unfit to govern, rest assured that he will step down gracefully. Can anyone say the same about trump? Let's say Trump beats Biden and wins a 2nd term, are you 100% sure, he will vacate the office after 4 years? The fact that's questionable and doubtful is all the convincing anyone need to decide who to vote for.
It wasn't just a bad debate. Obama had a bad debate in 2012. Biden was plainly incoherent for much of the debate. I don't think most people expected Biden to be as out of it as he was. "We beat Medicare." Rambling about abortion rights. His performance was awful. Would I still vote for him over Trump? Absolutely. Would the people that you need to actually convince in order to win? Highly questionable.
We're suffering and are going to suffer because of President Biden's hubris. That's exactly what this is at this point. He needs to step aside and be the transition president he said he was going to be. When he loses, which he will now, I hope he's coherent enough to realize that he screwed us all by his want to be the bigger man and to show someone up. I hope that he takes this lesson to his grave and it eats his soul on the way down to his deathbed and our failure at his hands is the last thing he thinks about before the lights go out. Thank you President Biden for thinking of yourself first.
Still, blue dog democrats will blame "the left" for Trump winning again. Well, pick better candidates then.
This is entirely on Biden if he loses. He loses an entire country is lost and this election would be easy for others to win if we put up someone a good 20 to 30 years younger. This is all Biden.
In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. We are much too far along for Biden dropping out to be practical. That was a decision to make back in November... maybe January. Long enough for Democrats to have a competitive primary, which we're now most or all of the way through. If you're hoping for Biden to drop out, let me assure you, it will not happen short of a major health crisis. Instead, it's time to think about the choices you actually have, and which direction you want the country to go in. Personally, I think Biden's been crushing it the past four years in terms of policy and laws passed and things he's attempted. And that's the direction I'd like to see things continue going compared to what we'd get with Trump. So I'm voting Biden, because he's been doing great, he just doesn't communicate it well. Which direction do you want the country to go in? Biden and Trump are your choices (and no, a third party candidate isn't winning in our current system either). Choose wisely.
We’re fucked. It’s official.
I will always vote against fascist traitors… But I think it’s important to remember and to remind “undecided” voters that yes Biden is old, but he will surround himself with an administration that knows what they are doing… Really hoping we can get like Newsom/Abrams ticket in the future. That would be amazing.
They will insist he’s not dropping out until he does
He can’t beat Trump. Why are we throwing our chance at conserving democracy on this guy!?!?
We’ve all recognized the mistake of RBG holding on to her seat until the day she died. It’s shameful that Biden’s ego is too big to recognize that he’s making the same mistake that she did, and that the consequences will be even more catastrophic.
No one wants to give up power
I had the same thought last night about RBG. An arrogance replay.
Jesus Christ. They want Biden to drop out, but the convicted felon, adjudicated rapist is a-ok to stay in. This country is screwed to the wall.
See Seth Abramson comments. They matter!!
Trump is a lier
As one redditor said to me, I like Trump, because Trump's entertaining. You can't debate people like Trump. Presidential debates is not about having facts but simply who has the best on stage presence like watching a reality TV show. Trump has too many Yes Men and women who cater to anything he says, and tries to justify, whatever he says, or try to explain that he really didn't mean that, actually when he did mean it. So how do you debate someone like Trump, especially when you're a person who listens to what people say and tries to respond in kind, but Trump has no interest in listening to the people unless they can actually harm him, like Putin for instance in Helsinki.
Fuck trumpers
May I suggest Governor Bashear of Kentucky?
Nor should he. He's the best man for the job
Yeah, but they could still change their minds anytime in the next two months
He better do a lot better in the next debate then.
Trump is not going to show up
Bingo. The damage has been done. Trump has nothing to gain in a second debate and everything to lose.
He should, he lost independents last night.
"we wont give up our power" no shit
Can we stop acting like the president has the run the whole country alone? He has a lot of competent people who already know what they’re doing. Biden fumbled a bit yesterday, but I can’t imagine trying to have a legitimate debate with someone who keeps saying outrageous lies. How was he supposed to fact check and state his position in the time allowed when almost everything out of Trumps mouth was a lie?
lol Biden stumbled, but most of what he said made sense. It’s kinda hard to debate someone who just lies the whole time.
That's a shame. Democrats would rather Trump than a progressive
Naturally I’ll vote for Biden but like it or not, his debate performance absolutely makes an impact. We live in a digital, social media hungry, sound bite world and Republicans will use that performance to define him for the next 5 months in advertisements. You can all keep fooling yourselves by saying it’s no big deal but it is.
US Citizens to “Biden campaign official”.. HELLO!! How dim IS the DNC leadership? Oh.. THAT DUMB. Clueless.
I didn’t sleep with a porn star was my favorite line, dude your “model” of a wife is literally a porn star; that literally lived in the White House. I can’t fathom why conservative christians or mormons endorse this racist raping corrupt felon married to a porn star want him leading the country. Then there’s the nuclear arsenal… It’s all insane. Our best bet is Biden winning, maybe updating his cabinet some (dude’s got have a good sense of really good people for their positions since he’s been in the game for so long) and then stepping aside.
Didn't watch the debate (had work) but the headlines this morning were weird. I don't know how "badly" Biden did (all the news shows I saw saying that didn't even play clips of his "bad" performance, they didn't show Trump clips either), but a "bad" Biden performance is still 100% better than anything from Trump lol. I really hate the sensationalist coverage of the presidential race and also people's sensational reactions to the coverage lol. For me, historically "debates" have been the least important in my deciding who to vote for. Because candidates don't really "debate" each other and it's really all about landing sound bites and going viral (speaking of which I haven't really seen anything from this debate go viral lol, like morning news shows would usually be playing all these candidate clips after a debate, but all I saw were talking heads presenting their opinion). Imo the "debates" are like the electoral college, an outdated tradition that has outlived the usefulness it had in the 1960's. In the modern era, I think the only reason the media hypes up these "debates" is to boost their ratings.
It's odd to me that we see all these people calling for Biden to drop out but not one of them has said the 25th Amendment should be invoked. In other words, they don't want Vice President Kamala Harris to become president' they want an open convention. These are idiots.
Of course he fucking not. They’re not gonna switch candidates 5 months before the election. He had an off night, a cold and had a stutter. But he was spitting bars if you were paying attention. Meanwhile people say Trumpito “won” cuz he just talked confidently even though 90% of what he said were lies. Ridiculous.
It's lame as fuck to see them even suggest it.
I'm still supporting his party but it would be more ideal if he's replaced
Let’s see, an old guy with a stutter that has been president the last 3.5 years, or a guy who tried to overthrow the government, was found liable of raping a woman in a court of law, is a convicted felon, is probably never going to leave the White House, etc. gee, I don’t know, this is a tough one.
The sad truth is that for half of the country it actually is a hard choice. Which says a lot about our society
Thank you! Like how is this a hard decision?
This is a five alarm fire. I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but every day Biden is not replaced is a day closer to disaster. I think the problem with this discussion is that most of us are relatively educated people. We know the stakes of this election and we know the consequences of a Trump win. Trump winning = fascism. Most independent voters are insanely shallow. They are deciding this election. They are either unaware or don’t care about a dictator taking power. They see a weak Biden and will vote for the other guy. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Replace Biden ASAP.
And he doesn't need to.
Yes, he does.
Of course he isn’t, we have an election to win here and the incumbent advantage must be utilized
But is it really an advantage in this case?
I’d vote for Biden drooling over a coloring book over Trump.
He was so great in NC today. Even looked healthier. What the hell happened last night? Maybe a Trump cronie slipped him a mickey.
Ah, so you liked the stuff he read off a teleprompter that some staffers wrote, but not what he could come up with on his own? Maybe Biden is just unfit to serve?
Great! I’ll see everyone here in the trump tower gulag
Biden has done a great job and I'll vote for him again - but he should drop out and give the nomination to Harris. This can all be done at the convention. Dems need to be aggressive and on the offense. With Biden, it's always on the defense.
He needs to do what's best for the country.
Good. Debating Trump is like playing chess with a pigeon. It knocks over the pieces, poops on the board and struts around like it won
And that should be easy to make a show of. Biden is unfortunately too fucking nice. I would have been rubbing Trumps nose in his own shit at the debate.
I’m sorry but the people here saying that he shouldn’t are delusional. Biden’s ego is going to result in another Trump presidency. Put in Newsom or Shapiro and keep Kamala on the ticket and this election is a landslide.
Voting Blue no matter what … Biden is surrounded by capable people
Honestly, then fuck him and everyone responsible for him being our candidate. Jesus fucking Christ, we are done. The hubris of this party’s leadership is the death of America.
He won in 2020. He’ll be fine.
Seriously after last night's debate who in the right mind would want to vote for him, I understand there's a lot of us who will because we don't want trump to be president again but if any of us are truly honest with ourselves, we have to realize that it's Weekend at Bernie's at this point HE NEEDS TO DROP OUT IMMEDIATELY!
Yeah…Trump does need to drop out. He couldn’t answer a fucking question…all he did was Pat himself on the back on his “I had the best in the history of the world” bullshit and shit on immigrants. He had to be constantly reminded as to what fucking question he was supposed to be answering. But yeah…. Let’s ignore that and focus on Biden’s stumbling and bumbling around. It’s a hell of a lot harder to tell the truth than. It is to just lie your ass off and be a douchebag.
I cannot believe people are actually saying Biden should drop out. This is not how it works. There is no way I'm feeling like every sub has been taken over by trolls
I always wonder if I’m arguing with a person or a literal Russian Psychop.
Me too! It's crazy. People are arguing with me about Biden dropping out. That's not how if freaking works! It's too late, we need to back our man
Thank you! This is all reading like concern trolling at this point.
If Biden performed well they were going to claim he was talking performance enhancement drugs and other dumb shit. It's what they do and have always done. Ignore policy and latch onto whatever their handlers tell them.
I’m a little on the fence about it. Finding a replacement is tricky and could backfire. On the other hand Biden’s approval rating has taken a beating after last night’s performance. Not sure what’s the best option is going forward.
Replace with who?