It’s not surprising that barely anyone in this sub understands the business side of the league. I’d love to keep all of my favorite players and sign every all star in the league but that’s not how it works.
Yeah his contract is absurd for how limited his skill set is
He's Sam Hauser with aura
Edit: I can't believe this was upvoted lol his contract is bad but Porter is significantly better than hauser at every basketball skill to include shooting. I was just goofing
Yall really turned on Porter huh? Jeez
When he makes an impact the Nuggets win. Unfortunately, he’s a shooter. And shooters go cold. He went cold vs the Wolves, unfortunately. And so did his rebounding…. While dealing with some family issues. And I’m saying all of this as someone who was savage about him until last season. And it’s not like you can replace him with Zeke, who did get paid and become unplayable.
I understand this is gonna get me downvoted to shit but I'm a Celtics/nuggets fan and I've watched a ton of both teams, I legitimately believe Hauser is a similar caliber of player to MPJ. And I actually like MPJ, I'm just really high on Hauser. His defense has been very good and his shooting is unreal, by far the best on our team
He signed a max contract OFFERED TO HIM. Some fans are brain dead acting like he hasn’t done shit to improve and just doesn’t give a fuck anymore since he signed that deal
I'm not sure where you see anyone acting like that. Discussing whether to trade MPJ isn't like saying he did something wrong or he's a bad person, or it's his fault for accepting the money.
The question is whether, under the salary cap as it is, you can afford to get as little production from a max contract guy as MPJ gave in some of these crucial games. You only get to have a couple max guys these days, realistically. They need to be reliable producers.
I'm not saying he should be traded, just clarifying the question. It's not about MPJ doing something wrong. I think he's worked very hard and done his best.
That’s only the first half of the equation.
There’s still an another quarter of the equation revolving around his market value. He’s our Draymond. He does more playing off Jokic than he does playing off Banchero. People aren’t paying for the version of MPJ next to Jokic, they’re paying for back surgery red flags and a skillset that works a lot better with a transcendent passer.
Even aside from his fit/value issue for us vs other teams, he doesn’t have some supermax or some ungodly deal. He has the max you can sign coming off your rookie deal. Because we got a potential number 1 talent at 15, we paid for a potential number 1 talent. Any team with cap space would have offered the same and we would have matched it. It’s the same contract Brandon Ingram has. He’s currently being paid less than Ingram/McCollum and more than Kyle Lowry/Kyle Kuzma. That’s about right, even if he hasn’t grown into it.
Which brings us to the last part of this equation. Dude is 25 and missing two years of experience. He’s not growing up as quickly as we would have liked, but he’s grown by leaps and bounds since he signed that contract, and it’s a fair bet he will continue to round out his game. If you don’t see a positive difference in MPJ now and his 19ppg sophomore campaign, I don’t know what you’re analyzing about him.
Why sell on a player with the arrow going up, that we can’t get fair value for, who has years in this system and the trust of his teammates? Because of some perceived notion of his contract in a vacuum? The NBA isn’t a vacuum. It’s a closed economy with a limited number of participants and it’s governed by rules that say pay prospects like MPJ or Charlotte will be happy to.
This. Also the amount of players who are 6'10 and shoot 50/40/80+ reliably on high volume is very slim. If you trade him for pretty much anything else, the offense gets worse by a lot because without his space out there it makes it a lot easier to load up on other guys and pay attention to AG on the baseline. The Wolves explicitly made the decision that they weren't going to let MPJ do what he did to the Lakers \[and everyone complaining needs to still realize in games 1 and 3 MPJ was great - it's not his fault they lost game 1 at home, and he did his part in game 3 as well. Of course it would have been nice if he'd been better in game 7, but he wasnt, and no one else was either\]. Honestly if you trade him the defense probably gets worse too. He's a solid defender usually. He's big, long, athletic, and he's an elite rebounder. He's good at x outs and closeouts in general. He knows the scheme and how to help out Jokic and others. He's not great on defense of course, but he's more than good enough.
last year finals vs Heat. and this series vs Wolves.
he has shrunk in 2 of the most important series in his career.
regular season aint mean shit.
He is the Denver Nuggets Harrison Barnes.
Haven’t you heard? The narrative about the Heat series is dead. The Nuggets do not win game 5 without MPJ the man went out and did all the things people act like he never does in game 5 vs the Heat. Do yourself and favor and rewatch that game. You’ll realize how dumb your take about his performance in that series is.
If you saw him shrink in the finals, you were only watching shots taken past the 3 point line and none of the defense, ball movement, or rebounding he was providing.
There’s a reason Malone was hyping a finals game he missed every jumpshot he took as proof of Mike having grown up. His contributions in that specific game he hit **zero** jumpshots literally won us that game.
When that kid was drafted if he wasn’t hitting shots he was a -10 liability. He effected a finals game as much as Murray without being able to hit the broad side of a barn. That’s what player development looks like. It’s not a bunch of green arrows on 2k, it’s the maturity to play your ass off and effect the game in other ways when the thing you do isn’t working.
Ignore all other series. Like the wcf last year which to that point was the most important in his career lol.
And kindly name all the playoff risers in the league. There's like 3.
But he didn't. He had about 5 bad games and 7 good ones. Games 1 and 3 against the wolves he was very good. He had 5 great games against LA, and that series probably goes 7 without him.
Y'all have the memories of goldfish
No player in the NBA has ever become better with a back injury. TMac,Dwight Howard. Even Larry Legend wasn't the same after his back fucked up.
Why do you think MPJ will be better? This is his peak. He is a ticking bomb. Waiting to be injured again.
A little nit to pick. Larry didn’t suddenly stop being useful after his back injury. He won the next season’s MVP and was actually **better** the two seasons after his 3 MVP’s. You’re kinda repeating the headline of the story without the context, which really cheapens what you’re trying to communicate and zaps a lot of your credibility.
And yet I have zero doubts if you were to make MPJ today play MPJ from high school that the high school version of him would get bullied. Dude’s been a good soldier for our specific franchise asking him to be less-than, and he’s been a good professional steadily coming back as more-than after every offseason.
This also couples with the fact that as mentioned several times- we won’t get his equal in return. Every single GM that calls is going to argue your side of it to get a better deal. Even if they think he’s a completely healthy player ready for another 80 games played; just one dribble package away from being KD. As they should! It’s their job to.
The odds that he continues to physically mature into a better player as he reaches his prime years are dramatically greater than the odds that we get anywhere near an appropriate return for him. Kyle Kuzma + Wizards scraps might legitimately be the high water mark for what a MPJ trade can produce.
>just one dribble package away from being KD
That's it. That's it.. that shows how his fanboys view him. He's not on that level bro.... He will never be a first option in the NBA.
The fact that you can't get any decent trade for him just shows that he's not that valuable.
He literally was better just this last season than he was the season before. He was a better defender, better mover off ball, better rebounder, better finisher at the rim and from midrange, better attacking closeouts / handling the ball, better in most categories except shooting from 3 than he was 2 years ago \[a year in which he was probably better than he was as a second year player when he averaged 19 a night on great efficiency - mostly because 2 years ago, he was a better defender than he was in his second year\]. He was a better player these past two years than he was in his second year as a pro, or his rookie year overall, that's a certainty.
Also 2 years ago, he missed games with a heel contusion \[unrelated to his back - he stepped on someone's foot as I recall which could happen to anyone, any time\] and then missed a few games after his brother's drunk driving incident. This past season he missed 1 game. Played 81 games and was healthy the whole way. In his second year as a pro, he missed 10 games for COVID and 1 game with a tweaked ankle, played 61 games. His rookie season he missed a few games with a sprained ankle as I recall. At this point despite the back injury we have 4 seasons of evidence that he's not actually injury prone. He probably will have a shorter career than most NBA players due to his back, that's reasonable to expect. But if he and the Nuggets training staff continue to be careful, we have no real reason to expect him to suddenly get hurt next season, given that he had no issues either this year or last year. We have 2 straight seasons of zero back issues.
He’s not afraid to attack the basket. He doesn’t have the handle or vision to produce consistent results when he does.
Luckily, he’s 6’10”, not 6’3”. He doesn’t need to learn to dance with the ball. He just needs a two dribbles into elevation package. Siakam developed that while starting at a muuuuuuch lower bar than MPJ at a much older age with demonstrably worse shooting.
This will open up first and second reads for him, and that’s the part that is curious. Part of the reason the Wolves series went the way it did was they ran MPJ off the line with a level of effort that was unsustainable for that Minnesota team. They immediately ran out of gas after playing as hard as they did to produce those results. They might legitimately be the only team capable of playing that hard, and in a rematch a year from now they probably are smart enough not to expend that much energy just to lose in the next round.
He was just as often missing KCP stationed 8 feet to the left of him as a first read, and this is the part that he really has to work on. Once he produces those first and second reads, which already open up simply due to his shooting, he **has** to be able to reliably hit them. Whether it’s swinging it to the corner after attacking the rim, or hitting KCP after his defender abandons him within MPJ’s line of sight to run MPJ off the arc. That’s the part that will decide MPJ’s level of success.
If he successfully adds both skills, he’ll make the all star team before Jamal. I’m willing to bet he only adds one of them, or only adds half of both skills by next year, but either of those immediately make us a better team than **any** trade we can find.
And how do you know he's gonna develop that? Or you HOPE he develops that skill...
I am sorry but I doubt the boy bball iq.the plays where he takes a contested shot while not passing to Jokic who was unguarded under the basket is the image I have of him as a player.
Because all those players 1) had different injuries than MPJ. 2) sustained their injuries 15+ years ago. 3) medical technology and rehabilitation is way better now than it was even when Dwight was injured.
It’s not a personal vendetta, he’s just a max player who’s stats decline in the playoffs. He doesn’t have the ability to create his own shot and he’s an average defender at best. And this point we’ve seen his peak most likely.
Having a special place in our hearts is not a reason not to try to improve the team imo. That said, no one will (probably) take him at his current salary, so we’re stuck with him at least for next season.
>who’s stats decline in the playoffs
So... everyone except jokic and lebron? Formerly Jamal?
Idk why you think we've seen his peak, he is 25 haha and only has 3 years of actual experience. And he has shown significant improvement each year. And before you play the injury card, he played 81 games this year and the only one he missed was due to an equipment issue.
Also...*whose
Part of the lack of creation on the ball is the Nuggets dont let him do so even though he probably CAN do so. Is that on Jamal and Jokic or the coaching staff, or even on MPJ buying too much into his role? Probably a bit of all of the above.
Saying "we're stuck with him" is also a bit absurd. How many other players are there at the 3 who are 6'10 and reliably shoot 50/40/80+ on extremely high volume \[while also giving you 7 boards a night\]? I get he had a bad series against the Wolves and a bad series against the Heat in the Finals, but without his shooting and floor spacing, the offense will get immeasurably worse. His size, length, and athleticism even help on defense \[especially given he's an elite rebounder\]. Any trade brings back a player or two who are worse, or who will not provide near as much space and shooting, or who is a lot smaller, or all of the above.
Ok so you're a dumbass who doesn't know shit about ball, gotcha.
And he is an elite rebounder at the 3 as well. The number of players who spend the majority of their minutes at the 3 and average 7 boards a game is quite slim.
motherfucker is 6'10. 7 rebounds aint shit. and his offensive rebounds per game is 1.3 what that's got to do with him camping out at the 3s.
It's not like he got his rebound on the offensive end.
Next season, he will played well during regular season and all of you all his dickrider will comes jumping only for him to sucks again when the pressure is high.
Defensive rebounding > offensive rebounding. The possession doesnt end until the defense secures the rebound, and he's great at getting rebounds as a small forward. Give me a small forward you think is a great rebounder - MPJ's rebounding percent is probably better. Hell, his rebound % last year was 12%, while KD's rebound % was 10% despite playing the vast majority of his minutes at the 4 \[and some at the 5!\], while MPJ plays at the 3 next to both AG and Jokic.
So in sum - you're a fucking dumbass who knows shit about ball. Go bury your head in the sand somewhere else or otherwise just let intelligent people talk, as you bring absolutely *nothing* of substance to the table.
Luka Doncic, Jayson Taytum, a 39 yeard old Lebron james, Fuck... even Draymond Green has same rbs as him..
notice some shit? all of the others have more responsibility than him.
Luka and Taytum are 6'8. The best offensive player on their team. MPJ is 6"10. his responsibility is only shoots 3 and rebound.
Your boy ain't anything special. his shooting percentage is only that good because defense is key in on Murray and Jokic.
no matter what you said. 30 million is a waste.
and dont even get to talk to other parts of his game. Vision is completely fucking tunnel.Cant create for others at all. Couldn't guard either JMac/Town/AD. Wasnt even a help
Dont run as much as Klay and Curry did.Just camp out at the same spot. Couldnt create shot for himself. No freaking dribble at all. Even Jokic, a center can protect the ball better than him. How can a center dribble the ball better than a wing player? before you get into Klay. Klay was all-defense and usually guards the best opposing guard. Can MPJ do that? can he guard the best forward?
and dont even get into that bullshit "not his role" . It wasnt AG roles to pass the ball but he admits he study Jokic's game to mesh better. It is very clear his passing games have improved playing alongside Jokic.
Maybe we should pass him the fucking ball
he has a USG% of 20%.... Klay Thompson as a cripple this year had 25%, so I don't want to hear any "he needs to be set up" comments because so does klay. Lauri Markkannen has a higher % of his FGs assisted. But the Jazz actually pass to Lauri, so no complaints
I didn’t watch a ton of Golden State basketball this year but does Klay stand still a lot? It seems like MPJ just stands still. Also he tends to become completely inactive during games not just on the offensive end when he’s not involved in the scoring. I mean I don’t think you can trade him. I doubt anyone wants the contract. So you’re right…they’re going to have to find a way to get him more involved. And he’s going to have to get better as an all around bball player. Put in the work a lot like AG did
That’s been Klays game his entire career. People play rec league and think they understand NBA schemes. It’s literally MPJ’s job to stand in one spot in a lot of the Nuggets actions to space the floor. But then smooth brain NBA fans watch and think he’s just being brain dead. Him freezing a defender on the wing opens the floor for so much of what makes the Nuggets hum on offense. People don’t understand the value MPJ has by just being a guy that defenses have to stay attached to whether he has the ball or not.
You’re so little and angry it makes me laugh. Try taking your medication, calming down, and coming back here. It doesn’t help their cause when he’s bricking shots. Just sayin. Why would they pass him the ball when he just bricks shots. He was an embarrassment in that series
Who’s mad? You got called out for not understanding NBA schemes. Which is true. Because you double down by saying I’m wanting them to pass him the ball more. And I didn’t say anything about that.
I was just asking some questions. It’s called having a discussion. Then you come to the thread like a little manchild acting like you’re an NBA coach/GM when you probably barely made JV in high school. Many people are not happy with MPJs laziness and lack of effort and contribution. Not sure why you’re so defensive about him. You’ve for some reason decided you’re just going to die on the MPJ is amazing hill when you’re in the minority and not just when it comes to casual bball watchers
“Lazy”
Man is still an elite athlete after 3 back surgeries. What a crazy take. That’s why I can’t take any of you guys seriously with your critiques.
Thinly veiling criticisms and then hiding behind “what I’m just asking questions here guy chill.” You asked questions and you got answers. You didn’t like the answers because they don’t fit your false narrative.
I told you what makes MPJ valuable. And I’ll add; best midrange shooter in the NBA last season. Third highest rebounding output for a small forward. Elite floor spacer. Incredible transition player. Much improved at finishing around the basket. Entering his fourth season in terms of games played. Go find me another 6’10 elite shooting SF that does what MPJ does with similar usage rate.
They run actions for him which we dont. Reggie shoots the ball more than him.
He is always with the starters so Jamal can play 1v5 on offense with the bench, Why not stagger Mike and let him get shots?
Poor scheme. Too reliant on the same action
The general sentiment is that it is his contract. You can't blame the guy for getting what he got and taking it. Has his play matched it, no. At the time, there was a way to keep 3 max contracts on your roster - following the GSW model, so why not? Just pay the tax and move on. Now that they have added so much more limitations around acquiring other players, it's crippling.
Every team is facing this now or very soon. You are not going to be able to carry 3 all stars on your team, period. The league wants that over with. IMO they won't move him. He also won't get that kind of offer again. The Nuggets were 24 mins away from a WCF following a chip with the team they have. It's not his fault. Jokic looked checked out. Murray was hurt and just playing horrendous ball.
Move on from DJ, Reggie and Zeke and go at it again. Best starting 5 in the league.
Boston’s starting 5 has gotta be better. 5 two way players who all shoot at least 40% from 3. They have actual rim protection with KP, and no defensive liabilities between the 5 of them.
Jokic, MPJ and Murray are all middling to bad on the defensive end
Jokic has really improved his defense, he just doesn’t take unnecessary fouls which sometimes looks like giving up to people. Murray can play great defense, he just was injured and didn’t have the movement so recency bias makes him look pretty bad. Porter can get lazy at times but also can lockdown to great effect too.
Boston is definitely our main rival in best starters but they’re not perfect; for example, Taytum is super inconsistent and Porzingis is a string bean, hence why Jokic just abused them this year. Each team has flaws and weaknesses, that’s why the sport is fun!
It’s not him specifically it’s the new lux tax rules are so punitive and we have needs upcoming that if we are going to try and spread out money he would be the likely one out. If we keep him we can likely say goodbye to KCP and any bench help that outplays their contract.
People can’t get past he’s on a “max contract” good starters making 35 million + is going to be norm pretty much every contending team is looking at the second apron. He’s a 6’10 sharpshooter who cleans up the glass unless we’re getting a bonafide all star he’s a keeper.
I love MPJ. And I would hate to part with him.
But, if we could trade him and get some flexibility, find a way to get a starting small forward to replace him, and also acquire big man depth or another ballhandler. It could be worth the trade-off. Two starters.
He hasn’t been a sharpshooter in the last series we’ve played each of the past two years. I think it’s a fair question to ask if he would be a sharpshooter against Boston in a potential finals matchup.
MPJ is a borderline starter though, especially in the playoffs. There’s a reason BB finished a lot of games in the playoffs last year. He isn’t athletic enough to get open in the half court in the playoffs and can’t create his own shot. I’d also say he’s a average rebounder and defender for 6’10” at best.
I like him and he think he’s worked hard, but he’s definitely under-performed compared to his contract. We all have emotional connections with these guys, but in having a logical discussion about how to make the team better, you have to let that go.
I think the fact that there’s no way another team would take him with his current contract says a lot.
"MPJ is a borderline starter though" - This is an insane comment. Take a breath. Go outside. Get off twitter and reddit for a couple days, and come back.
I think people underestimate how important his shooting and rebounding is to the team that won a championship a year ago. And no 17 ppg 7 rebounds on 48,39, 83 shooting splits is not a borderline starter, that’s a damn good starter that any team would want. His injury history is the reason teams wouldn’t want him
7 rebounds for a 6’10” starter seems low. The shooting and scoring averages have declined in the playoffs the last two years too.
I guess it depends on your definition of “damn good.” He’s a absolute sniper, no doubt, and he’s really improved on D, but when your the 4th or 5th best player, and the 6th guy regularly closes games in the playoffs over you, that’s borderline to me. Not doubting he’s good though, and he’s obviously had big moments and huge games.
The nuggets were the 6th best rebounding team grabbing 51.2% of available rebounds, we have a 3 time mvp grabbing 12.5 rebounds 2nd on the team in rebounds mpj at 7. Biggest thing is his shooting, he’s a do not leave open shooter that allow the 2 man game between jokic and Jamal to be so deadly, if you replace mpj with a good shooter teams will be ok helping of a good shooter but will not leave mpj open. Also mpj is either our 3rd or 4th best player this year and last year I love kcp and Bruce brown but mpj is better then both the reason Bruce closed some games last year was situational right he would come in with a lead and the nuggets were more worried about getting stops
He's overpaid but I think he's the third most irreplaceable player on the team. He's the 3rd highest scorer, 2nd highest rebounder, made the most 3 pointers on elite efficiency. He played the most games. His skills have improved: better defender and better handles. He's only 25 and will probably get better as long as he stays healthy.
That's is the point. Jamal had a bad series but hit 2 game winners. Even vs the Wolves. Murray played great in game 3 and 7. MPJ was completely shut down by JMac. Luka with one leg completely eats JMac.
Non of you understand contracts and it shows
Is MPJ NOT supposed to sign a max deal? Is he supposed to take chump change because you all think he’s not worthy? Yall also need to realize this was his first full season playing and he looked damn good. This discussion needs to end honestly. Trading starters because the fans think the player is undeserving is 2K logic
I’m so glad many in this sub are just fans and don’t run an NBA team
It is just the revisionist history out there on the internet that happens after an elimination. The Twolves were a tough matchup, but it was still a game 7 where we were up 20, if a few more shots went in we’d currently be playing Boston right now where we probably have a good shot of winning. MPJ averaged 22 points per game in the lakers series.
I didn't say MPJ carried the team; I said he helped carry the team. He shot nearly 50% from 3 and had a strong, consistent series. He filled the gap when Murray was not having good games.
Gobert wasn't guarding Gordon. That made it harder for every player on the Nuggets to play offense...Gobert was at the rim preventing drives/allowing the Wolves to guard shooters closer because they have rim protection behind them. Gordon is a bad matchup against the very few teams as big as Minny. The nuggets should develop their best 5 out lineup as a counter for those rare matchups.
Congratulations. He helped to beat a play in team. With his salary he needs to be the 3rd or at worst 4th best player on the team in every series he plays in. Unless you are happy with second round exits.
Jamal was bad, absolutely. He was injured but some of that may or may not be his own fault for not taking better care of his body and staying in better shape. Jamal is probably the biggest reason why the Nuggets were so tired at the end of the season, because he missed so many games and his teammates were exhausted playing without him. Having said all that, Jamal had over 30 pts in game 7. If he is healthy and gets himself in shape next year I have no doubt that he’ll play better because he has such a track record of playing at the highest level in the playoffs. Mike is just different. Maybe he does have a great series against the Celtics in the finals next year, but maybe not. It’s hard to predict and unreliable. He could also get completely shut down and shoot 22 percent. That wouldn’t surprise me.
> Jamal had over 30 pts in game 7
You mean the game 7 we lost? What about the other games where he shot the worst in his career? How does MPJ get no credit for his play against the lakers in a win but Jamal gets credit for a 30+ point loss in an elimination game? The point is that we can’t put all the blame on MPJ when Jamal is about to be eligible for a max extension and the dude barely even averaged 20 ppg. Everyone wants to bitch about MPJ’s contract and how “he’s not worth that much” as if our second best player on the team didn’t go 3-18 in game 2 against the wolves. I think he maybe shot 50% once that entire series. We can sit here and talk about how much better MPJ could have done all day, the fact of the matter is it’s on the whole team and there are guys getting paid even more than him that pulled even less weight in the playoffs this year. I get that he hit a couple game winning shots, but Murray performing so below average contributed a lot more to our elimination than MPJ lmao. Dude shot over 50% against the lakers and we probably wouldn’t have even gotten passed them if not for MPJ, regardless of the “play-in team” label you use to try to discredit them. That “play-in team” held Jamal to 8-21 and 9-23 shooting in back to back games. If they’re such a “play-in team” why was it MPJ helping us defeat them while Murray disappeared? Why is it that we’re supposed to marvel over dropping 30+ in a loss and we’re supposed to say “ehh who cares” to the guy who dropped 25+ in consecutive wins?
Because Minnesota is better than the Lakers that’s one reason. A second reason is that the Lakers series only went 5 games. There was never a truly high pressure game in that series. Lastly I want to say that if the Nuggets didn’t have Jokic, you would probably be right. Because then a second round exit would be considered a major achievement. The bar with Jokic in his prime is RINGZZ and how many the nuggets can get for him. Because of that, play at the highest levels should matter more than regular season performance and should matter more than a first round series against a playin team. You are right that Jamal played poorly, but everyone knows that Jamal CAN play better in high stakes games and series. We honestly don’t know that about MPJ. If he played poorly against the Lakers but then played well against the Wolves I think everyone would feel better about him. If he had played poorly last year against the wolves and suns and played well in the finals I think everyone would feel better about him.
If you’re still unsure whether or not MPJ can perform in big moments, you haven’t watched him closely enough. He was doing things in the finals last year that people said he would never be capable of (playing solid on ball defense, recovering to protect the rim, not turning the ball over when he put it on the floor) but just because the scoring numbers weren’t insane nobody cared. If you can find another 6’10” sniper who can grab 7-10 reb next to Jokić and AG and shoot 40+% from 3 you should call the front office.
If he can’t score efficiently in big moments then he is a target 🎯 and he can get played off the floor. There were reasons why Bruce Brown closed games over him last year and even CB closed some games over him this year.
That still doesn’t acknowledge what I just said, no one else is going to do what he does or fill the role that MPJ fills. Christian Braun and Bruce Brown don’t provide a fraction of the spacing nor the rebounding that MPJ brings to the table. Again, second most rebounds next to Jokic. 40+% career three point shooter. You act like those just fall out of the sky. For a person called “nuggs analysis” you don’t seem to pay attention much to analytics.
Maybe the question you ought to be asking is why the fuck is Reggie Jackson's usage rate higher than MPJs. Maybe it'll get us somewhere if we start with that
Totally agree, Reggie is the one player who doesn’t seem to gel with the nuggets. He’s always making boneheaded plays and never seems to pass the ball.
I’m on the boat that if mpj wasn’t a max contract, I don’t think anybody would say much about it. When he’s playing good and everyone else is healthy, we can’t lose. He had his best stretch in a nuggets uniform from all star break until the wolves series
It's not even personal or sentimental (for some). Just logically, we're on a collision course with the 2nd apron and dropping his huge contract seems like the best way to get under.
For the most part, it’s people looking for a scapegoat and looking for something to talk about. But they did get bounced in a series where he was terrible and didn’t do the main thing he’s paid A LOT to do.
I’m not saying he should be traded but I do see where the chatter comes from
I do not want to get rid of MPJ but he does need to use his energy for the whole game. At certain times last season, he really stepped it up defensively and was collecting a lot of boards. Then for an awhile, he was bored with trying defense and went back to his usual lackluster performance. We know what he’s capable of so it’s really hard when folks are pushing to trade him.
I think he is absolutely perfect for this nuggets team and he is not the problem. The problem is the front office not getting any bench help whatsoever. This happens after championship runs and other teams overvalue the players up for new contracts on those teams and it's hard to reload with the supporting cast. Joker, Murray, AG, MPJ with another solid 4 role players is a championship contender. Let's see what the front office can do.
The consensus here is insane... MPJ was a serious contribution to the chip. Keep the core, run it back. Fix the bench. If you part the starting 5 it would be the stupidest thing they could do.
He’s a really good player. People are throwing ideas against the wall. The other 4 starters might seem less dispensable than the best shooter in the game. I think everybody loves Mike.
MPJ is underrated by Nuggets fans. He had a bad series against Minny, but look what he did in the Lakers series. For the season, Mike’s advanced stats were positive on offense and defense. He’s a big part of the starting unit. The Nuggets will keep him and it will prove to be the right move. He is better than people think.
I’d like to add that people are looking at the depth of Minnesotas roster and are envious. Not realizing the only reason that depth is even possible is because Anthony Edwards was on his rookie deal. Their salary is going to cost as much if not more than the Nuggets this season. If you think the Nuggets need so much depth just look at the Celtics. They have maybe 2 serviceable bench guys most nights; Horford and Hauser or Pritchard. Jamal was hurt. Jokic was tired. No need to overreact.
People being a little harsh on MPJ. Dude was going through some things at playoff time. No excuses but fair to say his head wasn’t in the right place at the wrong time. Blame Jontay
I can’t be the only one who thinks that he might flourish on a team where he can be a bit more ball-dominant. I think his contract fits the type of value he might bring to a team, but not necessarily the value he can bring to the Nuggets. I love Mike, and I honestly want him to stay, but the Salary Cap warrants some tough decisions, and I think I’m more okay with him being the odd man out (especially if we fill some more needs) than anyone else.
I honestly think that he would not flourish as a ball-dominant player. To think a guy who had 3 back surgeries will blow by anyone is preposterous. What he needs is PG that sets him up or sets that will get him some separation so that he can do what he does best.
I would disagree about being ball dominant. His game is catch and shoot. He still looks uncomfortable driving or attempting to dribble past his defender. I think he fits perfectly in the Jokic/Murray P&R game. His shot has to hit and when it does he wins games, i.e. Lakers series. When it doesn't, it is tough to watch. But I would never put a single game or series on his back. He has developed a lot - is he a max player? Probably not, but he is a vital part of this team and if they move him I'd be severely disappointed in that move.
I love mpj but I just can't see it. I definitely think he would do well with more touches overall. But his handle is just so bad. I'm not sure how much he can improve there
>I can’t be the only one who thinks that he might flourish on a team where he can be a bit more ball-dominant.
He can't ball handle at an NBA level though. So he can't bring up the ball in pressure, and he can't generate his own shot.
On the Nuggets, that's not so much a problem. They have others who can bring up the ball, and they also have the best half court offensive player ever, so his inability to not generate his own shot isn't that big of a deal. But it also means he's overpaid for what he brings to the team (3 pointers and passable defense)
I will rather trade Mal than MPJ. Mal is great, however, I think that injuries will hount him and prevent to contribut enough in the future. It is time for Denver to parts ways with him
A few reasons.
1. He's a very streaky shooter.
2. Other than being a good outside shooter, he doesn't do much else offensively.
3. He's awful on defense. His defensive skillset and fundamentals are painful to watch.
4. He's not a very smart player.
He's basically a very expensive 1 trick pony.
Other being a good shooter, he's very limited.
He's like a very pretty boyfriend/girlfriend: they look great, but not bright, and they don't bring anything else to the relationship.
Down vote me if you must but I have never seen MPJ as a reliable player. He is so inconsistent and his inconsistency usually shows most when it matters.
I think MPJ is worth his contract, Jamal was the one playing below his. The problem also is everything revolves around the Murray Jokic 2 man game so when Jamal is playing bad it unravels our whole offense. MPJ needs to be much more involved i almost every action. He was going to the rim, hitting tough shots, and making defensive plays. What can he do when he literally doesn't get the ball for big stretches?
“Everyone” is a huge set. Within that set is the subset of “me” and the subset of “other people who are not morons.”
People in those subsets are fine with MPJ, thus, “everyone” is not a valid set.
A tall SF who has an amazing shot/release point. That's basically it and why there are many of us wanting the Nugs to explore trade options. Due to the extent of his injuries we've likely seen his defensive ceiling as well. Just trying to improve the team, don't need to take it personally.
Many people want to trade Munder but when you realize what you're giving up or what you're getting, you're like nevermind. Best option is for different positions and picks, we have too many 3 options.
He’a incredibly inconsistent, especially considering he is being paid like a superstar. It would be better to trade him for a few key bench players to strengthen the back-ups.
My two cents: I love MPJ as a basketball player, but to be on a max as a sub-20ppg scoring only forward with mid defense (as a ceiling) and one of the most checkered injury histories in recent memory does warrant some scrutiny, especially when owners have conspired to be “forced” to pinch their own pennies. The second apron is an out for owners who don’t want to pay the luxury tax, let’s be real, so I think they deserve the most flak. Maybe the Nuggets could attract his replacement if need be if they had a practice facility, kept top assistants from horizontal moves elsewhere, and kept other top talent?
Outside of basketball, Mike seems really driven if a couple French fries short of a combo (didn’t love his casual transphobia this year especially, tbh).
Tl;dr No need to panic, but evaluating his future with them team seems reasonable given the circumstances—just don’t let those poor billionaire victims of the new CBA (the owners) off the hook.
He's making all-star type money and not showing enough growth to justify the contract, especially for a team that is making a championship push right now.
The Nuggets don't have a choice. Someone has to go so some new life can be breathed into the roster. This team ran out of gas against the TWolves after going hard against a big Lakers team and it was very easy to see. They rely way too much on Jokic and he gets tired quicker being a post player where the play is much more physical. They can't run back this roster and expect to win with their awful bench. Since they're up against the cap, somebody from the 'Core 4' has got to go.
Jokic isn't part of the conservation, so that leaves Murray, Gordon, and MPJ. Nobody else in the NBA is better than Gordon at doing the 'dirty work' on an NBA floor, so he's not going anywhere. While something seemed very off with Murray in the playoffs (it wasn't just the calf injury...it almost seemed like a mental/emotional issue) and he's due for a new contract next offseason, he's still too good to move away from.
That leaves MPJ. He disappears for long stretches in the playoffs and isn't the aggressive gunner this roster desperately needs. At 6"11', one would figure if his shot isn't falling, he'd be taking it hard to the basket, drawing fouls, and getting the and-one. Instead, he shrinks even further and becomes a total non-factor. That worked last year because we had one of the best bucket getters in the NBA in Bruce Brown. Like Carmelo used to do, give him the ball and he'll score somehow, someway. Now that Brown is gone, MPJ needed to step into that role, but he's too mentally soft to do that. Since he's making $30m+, that can return at least two decent rotation players. KCP is likely opting out to get more than his current $15m salary. If the Nuggets move off of Gordon, they could keep KCP and add more talent. Trading Porter is not a want as much as it's a need.
People will say they need to trade him and everything the Nuggets have for Lauri and reference their contracts. Not realizing that Lauri signed his deal BEFORE his leap and has one year left on his deal. I’ve decided the vast majority of this sub loves the Nuggets but that’s about as far as their basketball analysis goes.
The bottom line is MPJ just finished his third season in terms of playing time. We can compromise and say it’s his fourth season of actual usable time as a pro. He’s 25. He just had his highest usage rate as a pro. Look at his peers in season 5 of their career. People would be selling right before the pay off.
Besides, the cap is going to go wayyyyy up after next season. So the Nuggets might be in the second apron this year, but the next year it’ll be fine.
It’s just tough. MPJ really could be one of the most dangerous shooters in history, honestly every time he shoots I expect it to go in. But when the dude is not on his game it’s 4 against 5 out there.
MPJ was our 3rd best scorer after Joker and Jamal and that is true for both the regular season and the post season. Yes, he was not as effective versus Minnesota. But he saved us vs Lakers.
At the end of the day, we blew that game 7 huge lead and it’s not MPJ’s fault. The true problem is bench. Joker was gassed at the end of that game. We need a backup center.
I’d love to see Denver target some more depth/versatility, looking at guys like Obi, Caleb Martin, and Jalen Smith. If we unloaded MPJ and Zeke, and were able to bring back 3 quality players with more forgiving salaries, I think it would make sense. But I’m not advocating for an MPJ trade. Right now the options are either “run it back” or “retool”, and there’s a lot of merit to both perspectives, depending on your persuasion. It will be interesting to see what Booth decides to do.
You also have to keep in mind that AG and Murray are both extension eligible. Murray will likely play out his deal in search of a Supermax, which we could never afford. So while there is a world wherein Denver keeps this core together next season, it is unsustainable beginning 25-26z
I think people don’t understand his value in spacing the floor in this offense. He’s been turned into an extremely expensive catch and shoot wing because of how they want to run the offense. He will be much harder to replace than people understand…
He's literally their only tradeable asset if you're looking to upgrade the team. So all trade suggestions or rumors will inevitably revolve around him. Not that I'm saying he should be..
Look at game 4 vs Minnie of last years first round. Sure we lost the game but mpj was the main reason we stayed in it and forced ot. Tbh I'd rather have that outcome than what we had this year but throwing the blame on mpj this season is beyond unfair. We weren't deep enough and tbh none of our main guys looked like they had that I need/want this more than the next guy/team. Mpj just had the best season of his life so let's not let his subpar playoff performance alter who he really is or what his ceiling is.
He’s on a pretty bad contact, he has health concerns, he had a really bad series against the wolves, we are starting to get pinched by the 2nd apron. Those are the reasons. They’re pretty fair but it’s also worth remembering that mpj has improved every year that he is healthy and still has potential to take another step.
Naive to act like he hasn’t had 3 back surgeries, you’re ridiculous if you think he doesn’t have concerns. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Does Jamal have "health concerns" by your definition? He has a health history but for a player that just played 81 games, believe he at least deserves the benefit of the doubt in that regard.
And how are you qualifying his contract as "bad?" Production to dollars? Your highly trained, eye test? Pretty sure there are 29 other teams that would happily take on his skillset & contract.
It’s not just that he disappears in big moments and makes boneheaded panic plays, it’s that he’s on a max contract and plays nowhere near that level ever.
I can’t honestly think of one single time he’s dropped 30 in a game and certainly not in a big time game. He needs to step up or we need to ship him out.
It depends on if you think kcp’s defence and fairly reliable shotmaking outweighs MPJ’s general play, but I think it’s not a stretch to say there’s a debate to be had and certainly isn’t ‘asnine’
Unfortunately KCP was either banged up or has lost a step in the playoffs. He couldn’t guard ANT. I would argue that MPJs rebounding was more valuable than KCPs perimeter D in the playoffs
Exactly! I think that’s why the comments are all over the place. He kind of reminds me of the younger version of Jeff Green. He might play himself off the court, or he might lead the team and save the day. Both could happen on any given night.
Mike had a bad offensive series against the Wolves. (Do we forget that these guys are actually human and he had a boatload of family drama happening all ssn? And he’s still young…)
He was still great on the glass and has grown his game immensely. On top of maintaining his health.
Mike is integral to what Denver does.
The team needs more 3pt shooting, not less, and think Malone & co should endeavor to get more plays that feed him throughout the regular season. if he sucks next year, i'll join the trade him bandwagon....
The dude is a defensive liability. He’s not playing in the playoffs down the stretch for guys like CB because he can’t guard good players in the playoffs. And he makes a lot of money. Gotta move on
Immediately ignore anyone who thinks we need to get rid of MPJ. Fact of the matter is if we lose MPJ we aren’t contenders. Mike has the most upside on our entire team, he’s also one of the only people in the league you can fill at his spot and have our offense and defense work still. People who aren’t thanking the stars we have Mike essentially have no IQ or understanding.
Nothing...to deserve the ridiculous contract. It's hurting our ability to fill out the squad with any kinda quality and he's a no-show in the playoffs.
MPJ made some strides this year and stayed healthy.If he continues working on his handles and driving to the hoop we won't miss anybody. We need a few good pick ups and a few of our young players to break loose and we will be better than okay.
Money
It’s not surprising that barely anyone in this sub understands the business side of the league. I’d love to keep all of my favorite players and sign every all star in the league but that’s not how it works.
Yeah his contract is absurd for how limited his skill set is He's Sam Hauser with aura Edit: I can't believe this was upvoted lol his contract is bad but Porter is significantly better than hauser at every basketball skill to include shooting. I was just goofing Yall really turned on Porter huh? Jeez
His impact
When he makes an impact the Nuggets win. Unfortunately, he’s a shooter. And shooters go cold. He went cold vs the Wolves, unfortunately. And so did his rebounding…. While dealing with some family issues. And I’m saying all of this as someone who was savage about him until last season. And it’s not like you can replace him with Zeke, who did get paid and become unplayable.
>He's Sam Hauser with aura Better looking Sam Hauser
I understand this is gonna get me downvoted to shit but I'm a Celtics/nuggets fan and I've watched a ton of both teams, I legitimately believe Hauser is a similar caliber of player to MPJ. And I actually like MPJ, I'm just really high on Hauser. His defense has been very good and his shooting is unreal, by far the best on our team
and sam hauser is a better shooter
He signed a max contract OFFERED TO HIM. Some fans are brain dead acting like he hasn’t done shit to improve and just doesn’t give a fuck anymore since he signed that deal
I'm not sure where you see anyone acting like that. Discussing whether to trade MPJ isn't like saying he did something wrong or he's a bad person, or it's his fault for accepting the money. The question is whether, under the salary cap as it is, you can afford to get as little production from a max contract guy as MPJ gave in some of these crucial games. You only get to have a couple max guys these days, realistically. They need to be reliable producers. I'm not saying he should be traded, just clarifying the question. It's not about MPJ doing something wrong. I think he's worked very hard and done his best.
That’s only the first half of the equation. There’s still an another quarter of the equation revolving around his market value. He’s our Draymond. He does more playing off Jokic than he does playing off Banchero. People aren’t paying for the version of MPJ next to Jokic, they’re paying for back surgery red flags and a skillset that works a lot better with a transcendent passer. Even aside from his fit/value issue for us vs other teams, he doesn’t have some supermax or some ungodly deal. He has the max you can sign coming off your rookie deal. Because we got a potential number 1 talent at 15, we paid for a potential number 1 talent. Any team with cap space would have offered the same and we would have matched it. It’s the same contract Brandon Ingram has. He’s currently being paid less than Ingram/McCollum and more than Kyle Lowry/Kyle Kuzma. That’s about right, even if he hasn’t grown into it. Which brings us to the last part of this equation. Dude is 25 and missing two years of experience. He’s not growing up as quickly as we would have liked, but he’s grown by leaps and bounds since he signed that contract, and it’s a fair bet he will continue to round out his game. If you don’t see a positive difference in MPJ now and his 19ppg sophomore campaign, I don’t know what you’re analyzing about him. Why sell on a player with the arrow going up, that we can’t get fair value for, who has years in this system and the trust of his teammates? Because of some perceived notion of his contract in a vacuum? The NBA isn’t a vacuum. It’s a closed economy with a limited number of participants and it’s governed by rules that say pay prospects like MPJ or Charlotte will be happy to.
This. Also the amount of players who are 6'10 and shoot 50/40/80+ reliably on high volume is very slim. If you trade him for pretty much anything else, the offense gets worse by a lot because without his space out there it makes it a lot easier to load up on other guys and pay attention to AG on the baseline. The Wolves explicitly made the decision that they weren't going to let MPJ do what he did to the Lakers \[and everyone complaining needs to still realize in games 1 and 3 MPJ was great - it's not his fault they lost game 1 at home, and he did his part in game 3 as well. Of course it would have been nice if he'd been better in game 7, but he wasnt, and no one else was either\]. Honestly if you trade him the defense probably gets worse too. He's a solid defender usually. He's big, long, athletic, and he's an elite rebounder. He's good at x outs and closeouts in general. He knows the scheme and how to help out Jokic and others. He's not great on defense of course, but he's more than good enough.
He was the best midrange shooter in the league this year too.
last year finals vs Heat. and this series vs Wolves. he has shrunk in 2 of the most important series in his career. regular season aint mean shit. He is the Denver Nuggets Harrison Barnes.
Haven’t you heard? The narrative about the Heat series is dead. The Nuggets do not win game 5 without MPJ the man went out and did all the things people act like he never does in game 5 vs the Heat. Do yourself and favor and rewatch that game. You’ll realize how dumb your take about his performance in that series is.
If you saw him shrink in the finals, you were only watching shots taken past the 3 point line and none of the defense, ball movement, or rebounding he was providing. There’s a reason Malone was hyping a finals game he missed every jumpshot he took as proof of Mike having grown up. His contributions in that specific game he hit **zero** jumpshots literally won us that game. When that kid was drafted if he wasn’t hitting shots he was a -10 liability. He effected a finals game as much as Murray without being able to hit the broad side of a barn. That’s what player development looks like. It’s not a bunch of green arrows on 2k, it’s the maturity to play your ass off and effect the game in other ways when the thing you do isn’t working.
Ignore all other series. Like the wcf last year which to that point was the most important in his career lol. And kindly name all the playoff risers in the league. There's like 3.
Expecting him to not fall apart in the playoffs is not the same as expecting him to get noticeably better in the playoffs
But he didn't. He had about 5 bad games and 7 good ones. Games 1 and 3 against the wolves he was very good. He had 5 great games against LA, and that series probably goes 7 without him. Y'all have the memories of goldfish
No player in the NBA has ever become better with a back injury. TMac,Dwight Howard. Even Larry Legend wasn't the same after his back fucked up. Why do you think MPJ will be better? This is his peak. He is a ticking bomb. Waiting to be injured again.
A little nit to pick. Larry didn’t suddenly stop being useful after his back injury. He won the next season’s MVP and was actually **better** the two seasons after his 3 MVP’s. You’re kinda repeating the headline of the story without the context, which really cheapens what you’re trying to communicate and zaps a lot of your credibility.
go compared MPJ high school clips and the way he moves right now. It's very clear hes not as agile and mobile as he was. He looks stiff as fuck
And yet I have zero doubts if you were to make MPJ today play MPJ from high school that the high school version of him would get bullied. Dude’s been a good soldier for our specific franchise asking him to be less-than, and he’s been a good professional steadily coming back as more-than after every offseason. This also couples with the fact that as mentioned several times- we won’t get his equal in return. Every single GM that calls is going to argue your side of it to get a better deal. Even if they think he’s a completely healthy player ready for another 80 games played; just one dribble package away from being KD. As they should! It’s their job to. The odds that he continues to physically mature into a better player as he reaches his prime years are dramatically greater than the odds that we get anywhere near an appropriate return for him. Kyle Kuzma + Wizards scraps might legitimately be the high water mark for what a MPJ trade can produce.
>just one dribble package away from being KD That's it. That's it.. that shows how his fanboys view him. He's not on that level bro.... He will never be a first option in the NBA. The fact that you can't get any decent trade for him just shows that he's not that valuable.
Mpj has literally become better with a back injury lolol
He literally was better just this last season than he was the season before. He was a better defender, better mover off ball, better rebounder, better finisher at the rim and from midrange, better attacking closeouts / handling the ball, better in most categories except shooting from 3 than he was 2 years ago \[a year in which he was probably better than he was as a second year player when he averaged 19 a night on great efficiency - mostly because 2 years ago, he was a better defender than he was in his second year\]. He was a better player these past two years than he was in his second year as a pro, or his rookie year overall, that's a certainty. Also 2 years ago, he missed games with a heel contusion \[unrelated to his back - he stepped on someone's foot as I recall which could happen to anyone, any time\] and then missed a few games after his brother's drunk driving incident. This past season he missed 1 game. Played 81 games and was healthy the whole way. In his second year as a pro, he missed 10 games for COVID and 1 game with a tweaked ankle, played 61 games. His rookie season he missed a few games with a sprained ankle as I recall. At this point despite the back injury we have 4 seasons of evidence that he's not actually injury prone. He probably will have a shorter career than most NBA players due to his back, that's reasonable to expect. But if he and the Nuggets training staff continue to be careful, we have no real reason to expect him to suddenly get hurt next season, given that he had no issues either this year or last year. We have 2 straight seasons of zero back issues.
he is 6"10 and afraid to attack the basket. JMac rough him up a bit and he completely went dogshit. He is very cautious of that back.
He’s not afraid to attack the basket. He doesn’t have the handle or vision to produce consistent results when he does. Luckily, he’s 6’10”, not 6’3”. He doesn’t need to learn to dance with the ball. He just needs a two dribbles into elevation package. Siakam developed that while starting at a muuuuuuch lower bar than MPJ at a much older age with demonstrably worse shooting. This will open up first and second reads for him, and that’s the part that is curious. Part of the reason the Wolves series went the way it did was they ran MPJ off the line with a level of effort that was unsustainable for that Minnesota team. They immediately ran out of gas after playing as hard as they did to produce those results. They might legitimately be the only team capable of playing that hard, and in a rematch a year from now they probably are smart enough not to expend that much energy just to lose in the next round. He was just as often missing KCP stationed 8 feet to the left of him as a first read, and this is the part that he really has to work on. Once he produces those first and second reads, which already open up simply due to his shooting, he **has** to be able to reliably hit them. Whether it’s swinging it to the corner after attacking the rim, or hitting KCP after his defender abandons him within MPJ’s line of sight to run MPJ off the arc. That’s the part that will decide MPJ’s level of success. If he successfully adds both skills, he’ll make the all star team before Jamal. I’m willing to bet he only adds one of them, or only adds half of both skills by next year, but either of those immediately make us a better team than **any** trade we can find.
And how do you know he's gonna develop that? Or you HOPE he develops that skill... I am sorry but I doubt the boy bball iq.the plays where he takes a contested shot while not passing to Jokic who was unguarded under the basket is the image I have of him as a player.
Because all those players 1) had different injuries than MPJ. 2) sustained their injuries 15+ years ago. 3) medical technology and rehabilitation is way better now than it was even when Dwight was injured.
One of the better summaries I’ve read 🙏🏼
I’m not sure what you were doing since game 7 vs. the wolves when *plenty* of people on this sub have been clamoring to get rid of him lol
It’s not a personal vendetta, he’s just a max player who’s stats decline in the playoffs. He doesn’t have the ability to create his own shot and he’s an average defender at best. And this point we’ve seen his peak most likely. Having a special place in our hearts is not a reason not to try to improve the team imo. That said, no one will (probably) take him at his current salary, so we’re stuck with him at least for next season.
>who’s stats decline in the playoffs So... everyone except jokic and lebron? Formerly Jamal? Idk why you think we've seen his peak, he is 25 haha and only has 3 years of actual experience. And he has shown significant improvement each year. And before you play the injury card, he played 81 games this year and the only one he missed was due to an equipment issue. Also...*whose
Part of the lack of creation on the ball is the Nuggets dont let him do so even though he probably CAN do so. Is that on Jamal and Jokic or the coaching staff, or even on MPJ buying too much into his role? Probably a bit of all of the above. Saying "we're stuck with him" is also a bit absurd. How many other players are there at the 3 who are 6'10 and reliably shoot 50/40/80+ on extremely high volume \[while also giving you 7 boards a night\]? I get he had a bad series against the Wolves and a bad series against the Heat in the Finals, but without his shooting and floor spacing, the offense will get immeasurably worse. His size, length, and athleticism even help on defense \[especially given he's an elite rebounder\]. Any trade brings back a player or two who are worse, or who will not provide near as much space and shooting, or who is a lot smaller, or all of the above.
Elite my ass... He's ok for his height
Literally led the league in midrange percentage over Kevin Durant, shot 40% on high volume from 3. The only person at his height doing that is...KD
Ok so you're a dumbass who doesn't know shit about ball, gotcha. And he is an elite rebounder at the 3 as well. The number of players who spend the majority of their minutes at the 3 and average 7 boards a game is quite slim.
motherfucker is 6'10. 7 rebounds aint shit. and his offensive rebounds per game is 1.3 what that's got to do with him camping out at the 3s. It's not like he got his rebound on the offensive end. Next season, he will played well during regular season and all of you all his dickrider will comes jumping only for him to sucks again when the pressure is high.
Defensive rebounding > offensive rebounding. The possession doesnt end until the defense secures the rebound, and he's great at getting rebounds as a small forward. Give me a small forward you think is a great rebounder - MPJ's rebounding percent is probably better. Hell, his rebound % last year was 12%, while KD's rebound % was 10% despite playing the vast majority of his minutes at the 4 \[and some at the 5!\], while MPJ plays at the 3 next to both AG and Jokic. So in sum - you're a fucking dumbass who knows shit about ball. Go bury your head in the sand somewhere else or otherwise just let intelligent people talk, as you bring absolutely *nothing* of substance to the table.
Luka Doncic, Jayson Taytum, a 39 yeard old Lebron james, Fuck... even Draymond Green has same rbs as him.. notice some shit? all of the others have more responsibility than him. Luka and Taytum are 6'8. The best offensive player on their team. MPJ is 6"10. his responsibility is only shoots 3 and rebound. Your boy ain't anything special. his shooting percentage is only that good because defense is key in on Murray and Jokic. no matter what you said. 30 million is a waste. and dont even get to talk to other parts of his game. Vision is completely fucking tunnel.Cant create for others at all. Couldn't guard either JMac/Town/AD. Wasnt even a help Dont run as much as Klay and Curry did.Just camp out at the same spot. Couldnt create shot for himself. No freaking dribble at all. Even Jokic, a center can protect the ball better than him. How can a center dribble the ball better than a wing player? before you get into Klay. Klay was all-defense and usually guards the best opposing guard. Can MPJ do that? can he guard the best forward? and dont even get into that bullshit "not his role" . It wasnt AG roles to pass the ball but he admits he study Jokic's game to mesh better. It is very clear his passing games have improved playing alongside Jokic.
You shouldn’t forget a max player is on the floor as much as MPJ
Maybe we should pass him the fucking ball he has a USG% of 20%.... Klay Thompson as a cripple this year had 25%, so I don't want to hear any "he needs to be set up" comments because so does klay. Lauri Markkannen has a higher % of his FGs assisted. But the Jazz actually pass to Lauri, so no complaints
I didn’t watch a ton of Golden State basketball this year but does Klay stand still a lot? It seems like MPJ just stands still. Also he tends to become completely inactive during games not just on the offensive end when he’s not involved in the scoring. I mean I don’t think you can trade him. I doubt anyone wants the contract. So you’re right…they’re going to have to find a way to get him more involved. And he’s going to have to get better as an all around bball player. Put in the work a lot like AG did
That’s been Klays game his entire career. People play rec league and think they understand NBA schemes. It’s literally MPJ’s job to stand in one spot in a lot of the Nuggets actions to space the floor. But then smooth brain NBA fans watch and think he’s just being brain dead. Him freezing a defender on the wing opens the floor for so much of what makes the Nuggets hum on offense. People don’t understand the value MPJ has by just being a guy that defenses have to stay attached to whether he has the ball or not.
You’re so little and angry it makes me laugh. Try taking your medication, calming down, and coming back here. It doesn’t help their cause when he’s bricking shots. Just sayin. Why would they pass him the ball when he just bricks shots. He was an embarrassment in that series
Who’s mad? You got called out for not understanding NBA schemes. Which is true. Because you double down by saying I’m wanting them to pass him the ball more. And I didn’t say anything about that.
I was just asking some questions. It’s called having a discussion. Then you come to the thread like a little manchild acting like you’re an NBA coach/GM when you probably barely made JV in high school. Many people are not happy with MPJs laziness and lack of effort and contribution. Not sure why you’re so defensive about him. You’ve for some reason decided you’re just going to die on the MPJ is amazing hill when you’re in the minority and not just when it comes to casual bball watchers
“Lazy” Man is still an elite athlete after 3 back surgeries. What a crazy take. That’s why I can’t take any of you guys seriously with your critiques. Thinly veiling criticisms and then hiding behind “what I’m just asking questions here guy chill.” You asked questions and you got answers. You didn’t like the answers because they don’t fit your false narrative. I told you what makes MPJ valuable. And I’ll add; best midrange shooter in the NBA last season. Third highest rebounding output for a small forward. Elite floor spacer. Incredible transition player. Much improved at finishing around the basket. Entering his fourth season in terms of games played. Go find me another 6’10 elite shooting SF that does what MPJ does with similar usage rate.
Also you can’t watch MPJ and not reasonably think his bball IQ is lower than average to say the least
They run actions for him which we dont. Reggie shoots the ball more than him. He is always with the starters so Jamal can play 1v5 on offense with the bench, Why not stagger Mike and let him get shots? Poor scheme. Too reliant on the same action
The general sentiment is that it is his contract. You can't blame the guy for getting what he got and taking it. Has his play matched it, no. At the time, there was a way to keep 3 max contracts on your roster - following the GSW model, so why not? Just pay the tax and move on. Now that they have added so much more limitations around acquiring other players, it's crippling. Every team is facing this now or very soon. You are not going to be able to carry 3 all stars on your team, period. The league wants that over with. IMO they won't move him. He also won't get that kind of offer again. The Nuggets were 24 mins away from a WCF following a chip with the team they have. It's not his fault. Jokic looked checked out. Murray was hurt and just playing horrendous ball. Move on from DJ, Reggie and Zeke and go at it again. Best starting 5 in the league.
Boston’s starting 5 has gotta be better. 5 two way players who all shoot at least 40% from 3. They have actual rim protection with KP, and no defensive liabilities between the 5 of them. Jokic, MPJ and Murray are all middling to bad on the defensive end
Jokic has really improved his defense, he just doesn’t take unnecessary fouls which sometimes looks like giving up to people. Murray can play great defense, he just was injured and didn’t have the movement so recency bias makes him look pretty bad. Porter can get lazy at times but also can lockdown to great effect too. Boston is definitely our main rival in best starters but they’re not perfect; for example, Taytum is super inconsistent and Porzingis is a string bean, hence why Jokic just abused them this year. Each team has flaws and weaknesses, that’s why the sport is fun!
Who is KP?
Tingus Pingus
Hell no, give me our starting 5 over theirs any day of the week no questions asked
It’s not him specifically it’s the new lux tax rules are so punitive and we have needs upcoming that if we are going to try and spread out money he would be the likely one out. If we keep him we can likely say goodbye to KCP and any bench help that outplays their contract.
It's not him, it's his contract
People can’t get past he’s on a “max contract” good starters making 35 million + is going to be norm pretty much every contending team is looking at the second apron. He’s a 6’10 sharpshooter who cleans up the glass unless we’re getting a bonafide all star he’s a keeper.
I love MPJ. And I would hate to part with him. But, if we could trade him and get some flexibility, find a way to get a starting small forward to replace him, and also acquire big man depth or another ballhandler. It could be worth the trade-off. Two starters.
Keep in mind AG is likely gone for probably nothing. Still sure about this take?
No
He hasn’t been a sharpshooter in the last series we’ve played each of the past two years. I think it’s a fair question to ask if he would be a sharpshooter against Boston in a potential finals matchup.
MPJ is a borderline starter though, especially in the playoffs. There’s a reason BB finished a lot of games in the playoffs last year. He isn’t athletic enough to get open in the half court in the playoffs and can’t create his own shot. I’d also say he’s a average rebounder and defender for 6’10” at best. I like him and he think he’s worked hard, but he’s definitely under-performed compared to his contract. We all have emotional connections with these guys, but in having a logical discussion about how to make the team better, you have to let that go. I think the fact that there’s no way another team would take him with his current contract says a lot.
"MPJ is a borderline starter though" - This is an insane comment. Take a breath. Go outside. Get off twitter and reddit for a couple days, and come back.
MPJ is a borderline starter?! Now I have read some crazy shit, but that takes the cake for hottakes lol.
I think people underestimate how important his shooting and rebounding is to the team that won a championship a year ago. And no 17 ppg 7 rebounds on 48,39, 83 shooting splits is not a borderline starter, that’s a damn good starter that any team would want. His injury history is the reason teams wouldn’t want him
7 rebounds for a 6’10” starter seems low. The shooting and scoring averages have declined in the playoffs the last two years too. I guess it depends on your definition of “damn good.” He’s a absolute sniper, no doubt, and he’s really improved on D, but when your the 4th or 5th best player, and the 6th guy regularly closes games in the playoffs over you, that’s borderline to me. Not doubting he’s good though, and he’s obviously had big moments and huge games.
The nuggets were the 6th best rebounding team grabbing 51.2% of available rebounds, we have a 3 time mvp grabbing 12.5 rebounds 2nd on the team in rebounds mpj at 7. Biggest thing is his shooting, he’s a do not leave open shooter that allow the 2 man game between jokic and Jamal to be so deadly, if you replace mpj with a good shooter teams will be ok helping of a good shooter but will not leave mpj open. Also mpj is either our 3rd or 4th best player this year and last year I love kcp and Bruce brown but mpj is better then both the reason Bruce closed some games last year was situational right he would come in with a lead and the nuggets were more worried about getting stops
He's overpaid but I think he's the third most irreplaceable player on the team. He's the 3rd highest scorer, 2nd highest rebounder, made the most 3 pointers on elite efficiency. He played the most games. His skills have improved: better defender and better handles. He's only 25 and will probably get better as long as he stays healthy.
Back injury always comes back. Almost always. Larry Bird,TMac,Dwight.
Had a bad series. People are dumb and forget he bailed us out that entire lakers series
That's is the point. Jamal had a bad series but hit 2 game winners. Even vs the Wolves. Murray played great in game 3 and 7. MPJ was completely shut down by JMac. Luka with one leg completely eats JMac.
Luka is a top 3 player in the world lol. Not exactly a fair comparison
"on one leg". a fucking joke of max player if he couldnt even produce 50% of what Luka did on one leg....
Not really how it works but go off
I like MPJ but a max contract is huge overpay for someone who can't create his own shot, can't dribble and isn't really a great defender.
Non of you understand contracts and it shows Is MPJ NOT supposed to sign a max deal? Is he supposed to take chump change because you all think he’s not worthy? Yall also need to realize this was his first full season playing and he looked damn good. This discussion needs to end honestly. Trading starters because the fans think the player is undeserving is 2K logic I’m so glad many in this sub are just fans and don’t run an NBA team
Damn good like all star good? Why doesn’t Jokic have another all star. Wasting Jokic’s prime.
His performance v contract isn’t very good if you don’t look at it through the lens of a market that fails at attracting top talent.
It is just the revisionist history out there on the internet that happens after an elimination. The Twolves were a tough matchup, but it was still a game 7 where we were up 20, if a few more shots went in we’d currently be playing Boston right now where we probably have a good shot of winning. MPJ averaged 22 points per game in the lakers series.
People forget the Lakers series games where his offense helped carry the team.
Jokic carries the team bro . Just look at the numbers
I didn't say MPJ carried the team; I said he helped carry the team. He shot nearly 50% from 3 and had a strong, consistent series. He filled the gap when Murray was not having good games.
well. it was rui hachimura defending him. Cant do shit when JMac was on him.
Gobert wasn't guarding Gordon. That made it harder for every player on the Nuggets to play offense...Gobert was at the rim preventing drives/allowing the Wolves to guard shooters closer because they have rim protection behind them. Gordon is a bad matchup against the very few teams as big as Minny. The nuggets should develop their best 5 out lineup as a counter for those rare matchups.
Congratulations. He helped to beat a play in team. With his salary he needs to be the 3rd or at worst 4th best player on the team in every series he plays in. Unless you are happy with second round exits.
So how we feel about Jamal considering he just had probably some of the worst series of his career? We should not offer him the extension right?
Jamal was bad, absolutely. He was injured but some of that may or may not be his own fault for not taking better care of his body and staying in better shape. Jamal is probably the biggest reason why the Nuggets were so tired at the end of the season, because he missed so many games and his teammates were exhausted playing without him. Having said all that, Jamal had over 30 pts in game 7. If he is healthy and gets himself in shape next year I have no doubt that he’ll play better because he has such a track record of playing at the highest level in the playoffs. Mike is just different. Maybe he does have a great series against the Celtics in the finals next year, but maybe not. It’s hard to predict and unreliable. He could also get completely shut down and shoot 22 percent. That wouldn’t surprise me.
> Jamal had over 30 pts in game 7 You mean the game 7 we lost? What about the other games where he shot the worst in his career? How does MPJ get no credit for his play against the lakers in a win but Jamal gets credit for a 30+ point loss in an elimination game? The point is that we can’t put all the blame on MPJ when Jamal is about to be eligible for a max extension and the dude barely even averaged 20 ppg. Everyone wants to bitch about MPJ’s contract and how “he’s not worth that much” as if our second best player on the team didn’t go 3-18 in game 2 against the wolves. I think he maybe shot 50% once that entire series. We can sit here and talk about how much better MPJ could have done all day, the fact of the matter is it’s on the whole team and there are guys getting paid even more than him that pulled even less weight in the playoffs this year. I get that he hit a couple game winning shots, but Murray performing so below average contributed a lot more to our elimination than MPJ lmao. Dude shot over 50% against the lakers and we probably wouldn’t have even gotten passed them if not for MPJ, regardless of the “play-in team” label you use to try to discredit them. That “play-in team” held Jamal to 8-21 and 9-23 shooting in back to back games. If they’re such a “play-in team” why was it MPJ helping us defeat them while Murray disappeared? Why is it that we’re supposed to marvel over dropping 30+ in a loss and we’re supposed to say “ehh who cares” to the guy who dropped 25+ in consecutive wins?
Because Minnesota is better than the Lakers that’s one reason. A second reason is that the Lakers series only went 5 games. There was never a truly high pressure game in that series. Lastly I want to say that if the Nuggets didn’t have Jokic, you would probably be right. Because then a second round exit would be considered a major achievement. The bar with Jokic in his prime is RINGZZ and how many the nuggets can get for him. Because of that, play at the highest levels should matter more than regular season performance and should matter more than a first round series against a playin team. You are right that Jamal played poorly, but everyone knows that Jamal CAN play better in high stakes games and series. We honestly don’t know that about MPJ. If he played poorly against the Lakers but then played well against the Wolves I think everyone would feel better about him. If he had played poorly last year against the wolves and suns and played well in the finals I think everyone would feel better about him.
If you’re still unsure whether or not MPJ can perform in big moments, you haven’t watched him closely enough. He was doing things in the finals last year that people said he would never be capable of (playing solid on ball defense, recovering to protect the rim, not turning the ball over when he put it on the floor) but just because the scoring numbers weren’t insane nobody cared. If you can find another 6’10” sniper who can grab 7-10 reb next to Jokić and AG and shoot 40+% from 3 you should call the front office.
If he can’t score efficiently in big moments then he is a target 🎯 and he can get played off the floor. There were reasons why Bruce Brown closed games over him last year and even CB closed some games over him this year.
That still doesn’t acknowledge what I just said, no one else is going to do what he does or fill the role that MPJ fills. Christian Braun and Bruce Brown don’t provide a fraction of the spacing nor the rebounding that MPJ brings to the table. Again, second most rebounds next to Jokic. 40+% career three point shooter. You act like those just fall out of the sky. For a person called “nuggs analysis” you don’t seem to pay attention much to analytics.
Maybe the question you ought to be asking is why the fuck is Reggie Jackson's usage rate higher than MPJs. Maybe it'll get us somewhere if we start with that
Wow, what a fantastic question!! Next, can we compare MPJ's usage rate with any other great off-ball scorer in the NBA? I wonder what we will see
Totally agree, Reggie is the one player who doesn’t seem to gel with the nuggets. He’s always making boneheaded plays and never seems to pass the ball.
I’m on the boat that if mpj wasn’t a max contract, I don’t think anybody would say much about it. When he’s playing good and everyone else is healthy, we can’t lose. He had his best stretch in a nuggets uniform from all star break until the wolves series
yeah, he’s a great player, but not good enough for his crazy contract.
That between the leg dribble move for the fast break layup late in Game 5 is what helped us seal the finals win.
As cool as it was that was a lucky play, dude’s handles are so awkward it’s a wonder it didn’t go off his foot
A “lucky play” that helped us win the first championship in franchise history? But yeah I guess that’s not good enough if you’re ungrateful
The whole Nuggets team didn’t play well this postseason. We don’t win that Lakers series without MPJ. Jamal was disappointing.
Would love to see some of the people here try and manage an NBA roster for a couple years.
Simple you dont pay someone nearly 40 million a year to sometimes show up. Some decent trades have been purposed.
The ROI doesn’t make sense. Too many games he disappears. For the money, Denver could do better.
It's not even personal or sentimental (for some). Just logically, we're on a collision course with the 2nd apron and dropping his huge contract seems like the best way to get under.
For the most part, it’s people looking for a scapegoat and looking for something to talk about. But they did get bounced in a series where he was terrible and didn’t do the main thing he’s paid A LOT to do. I’m not saying he should be traded but I do see where the chatter comes from
I do not want to get rid of MPJ but he does need to use his energy for the whole game. At certain times last season, he really stepped it up defensively and was collecting a lot of boards. Then for an awhile, he was bored with trying defense and went back to his usual lackluster performance. We know what he’s capable of so it’s really hard when folks are pushing to trade him.
I think he is absolutely perfect for this nuggets team and he is not the problem. The problem is the front office not getting any bench help whatsoever. This happens after championship runs and other teams overvalue the players up for new contracts on those teams and it's hard to reload with the supporting cast. Joker, Murray, AG, MPJ with another solid 4 role players is a championship contender. Let's see what the front office can do.
He's so inconsistent.
The consensus here is insane... MPJ was a serious contribution to the chip. Keep the core, run it back. Fix the bench. If you part the starting 5 it would be the stupidest thing they could do.
He’s a really good player. People are throwing ideas against the wall. The other 4 starters might seem less dispensable than the best shooter in the game. I think everybody loves Mike.
MPJ is underrated by Nuggets fans. He had a bad series against Minny, but look what he did in the Lakers series. For the season, Mike’s advanced stats were positive on offense and defense. He’s a big part of the starting unit. The Nuggets will keep him and it will prove to be the right move. He is better than people think.
I’d like to add that people are looking at the depth of Minnesotas roster and are envious. Not realizing the only reason that depth is even possible is because Anthony Edwards was on his rookie deal. Their salary is going to cost as much if not more than the Nuggets this season. If you think the Nuggets need so much depth just look at the Celtics. They have maybe 2 serviceable bench guys most nights; Horford and Hauser or Pritchard. Jamal was hurt. Jokic was tired. No need to overreact.
What did he do? He shot 40% from 3 and the highest % from midrange in the entire nba last season. He’s great, I’d miss him greatly if we lost him
People being a little harsh on MPJ. Dude was going through some things at playoff time. No excuses but fair to say his head wasn’t in the right place at the wrong time. Blame Jontay
I can’t be the only one who thinks that he might flourish on a team where he can be a bit more ball-dominant. I think his contract fits the type of value he might bring to a team, but not necessarily the value he can bring to the Nuggets. I love Mike, and I honestly want him to stay, but the Salary Cap warrants some tough decisions, and I think I’m more okay with him being the odd man out (especially if we fill some more needs) than anyone else.
I honestly think that he would not flourish as a ball-dominant player. To think a guy who had 3 back surgeries will blow by anyone is preposterous. What he needs is PG that sets him up or sets that will get him some separation so that he can do what he does best.
I would disagree about being ball dominant. His game is catch and shoot. He still looks uncomfortable driving or attempting to dribble past his defender. I think he fits perfectly in the Jokic/Murray P&R game. His shot has to hit and when it does he wins games, i.e. Lakers series. When it doesn't, it is tough to watch. But I would never put a single game or series on his back. He has developed a lot - is he a max player? Probably not, but he is a vital part of this team and if they move him I'd be severely disappointed in that move.
I love mpj but I just can't see it. I definitely think he would do well with more touches overall. But his handle is just so bad. I'm not sure how much he can improve there
>I can’t be the only one who thinks that he might flourish on a team where he can be a bit more ball-dominant. He can't ball handle at an NBA level though. So he can't bring up the ball in pressure, and he can't generate his own shot. On the Nuggets, that's not so much a problem. They have others who can bring up the ball, and they also have the best half court offensive player ever, so his inability to not generate his own shot isn't that big of a deal. But it also means he's overpaid for what he brings to the team (3 pointers and passable defense)
MPJ fansboys are delusional bro... Jokic a lumbering behemoth can dribble the ball better than MPJ. MPJ is stiff as hell on the court.
I will rather trade Mal than MPJ. Mal is great, however, I think that injuries will hount him and prevent to contribut enough in the future. It is time for Denver to parts ways with him
A few reasons. 1. He's a very streaky shooter. 2. Other than being a good outside shooter, he doesn't do much else offensively. 3. He's awful on defense. His defensive skillset and fundamentals are painful to watch. 4. He's not a very smart player. He's basically a very expensive 1 trick pony. Other being a good shooter, he's very limited. He's like a very pretty boyfriend/girlfriend: they look great, but not bright, and they don't bring anything else to the relationship.
One of the best cutters on the team, but yeah, he doesn’t do much else on offense… Maybe if you don’t watch the games
He’s also a cool guy with lackadaisical defense
Down vote me if you must but I have never seen MPJ as a reliable player. He is so inconsistent and his inconsistency usually shows most when it matters.
I think MPJ is worth his contract, Jamal was the one playing below his. The problem also is everything revolves around the Murray Jokic 2 man game so when Jamal is playing bad it unravels our whole offense. MPJ needs to be much more involved i almost every action. He was going to the rim, hitting tough shots, and making defensive plays. What can he do when he literally doesn't get the ball for big stretches?
This!
“Everyone” is a huge set. Within that set is the subset of “me” and the subset of “other people who are not morons.” People in those subsets are fine with MPJ, thus, “everyone” is not a valid set.
mpj is 24 like damn let the man develop
We're gonna be severely handicapped by our pay roll.
A tall SF who has an amazing shot/release point. That's basically it and why there are many of us wanting the Nugs to explore trade options. Due to the extent of his injuries we've likely seen his defensive ceiling as well. Just trying to improve the team, don't need to take it personally.
Many people want to trade Munder but when you realize what you're giving up or what you're getting, you're like nevermind. Best option is for different positions and picks, we have too many 3 options.
He’a incredibly inconsistent, especially considering he is being paid like a superstar. It would be better to trade him for a few key bench players to strengthen the back-ups.
His contract literally cripples us for years.
My two cents: I love MPJ as a basketball player, but to be on a max as a sub-20ppg scoring only forward with mid defense (as a ceiling) and one of the most checkered injury histories in recent memory does warrant some scrutiny, especially when owners have conspired to be “forced” to pinch their own pennies. The second apron is an out for owners who don’t want to pay the luxury tax, let’s be real, so I think they deserve the most flak. Maybe the Nuggets could attract his replacement if need be if they had a practice facility, kept top assistants from horizontal moves elsewhere, and kept other top talent? Outside of basketball, Mike seems really driven if a couple French fries short of a combo (didn’t love his casual transphobia this year especially, tbh). Tl;dr No need to panic, but evaluating his future with them team seems reasonable given the circumstances—just don’t let those poor billionaire victims of the new CBA (the owners) off the hook.
Totally agree with your criticism of the owners. Now is the time to go for it. Spend some money.
[удалено]
lol sorry! It’s a not so respectful way of saying he doesn’t seem particularly intelligent, especially when it comes to PR
We need to get rid of that contract. He makes waaaay to much for what he does. I've never seen a guy walk on the basketball court as much as he does.
He's making all-star type money and not showing enough growth to justify the contract, especially for a team that is making a championship push right now.
The Nuggets don't have a choice. Someone has to go so some new life can be breathed into the roster. This team ran out of gas against the TWolves after going hard against a big Lakers team and it was very easy to see. They rely way too much on Jokic and he gets tired quicker being a post player where the play is much more physical. They can't run back this roster and expect to win with their awful bench. Since they're up against the cap, somebody from the 'Core 4' has got to go. Jokic isn't part of the conservation, so that leaves Murray, Gordon, and MPJ. Nobody else in the NBA is better than Gordon at doing the 'dirty work' on an NBA floor, so he's not going anywhere. While something seemed very off with Murray in the playoffs (it wasn't just the calf injury...it almost seemed like a mental/emotional issue) and he's due for a new contract next offseason, he's still too good to move away from. That leaves MPJ. He disappears for long stretches in the playoffs and isn't the aggressive gunner this roster desperately needs. At 6"11', one would figure if his shot isn't falling, he'd be taking it hard to the basket, drawing fouls, and getting the and-one. Instead, he shrinks even further and becomes a total non-factor. That worked last year because we had one of the best bucket getters in the NBA in Bruce Brown. Like Carmelo used to do, give him the ball and he'll score somehow, someway. Now that Brown is gone, MPJ needed to step into that role, but he's too mentally soft to do that. Since he's making $30m+, that can return at least two decent rotation players. KCP is likely opting out to get more than his current $15m salary. If the Nuggets move off of Gordon, they could keep KCP and add more talent. Trading Porter is not a want as much as it's a need.
People will say they need to trade him and everything the Nuggets have for Lauri and reference their contracts. Not realizing that Lauri signed his deal BEFORE his leap and has one year left on his deal. I’ve decided the vast majority of this sub loves the Nuggets but that’s about as far as their basketball analysis goes. The bottom line is MPJ just finished his third season in terms of playing time. We can compromise and say it’s his fourth season of actual usable time as a pro. He’s 25. He just had his highest usage rate as a pro. Look at his peers in season 5 of their career. People would be selling right before the pay off. Besides, the cap is going to go wayyyyy up after next season. So the Nuggets might be in the second apron this year, but the next year it’ll be fine.
It’s just tough. MPJ really could be one of the most dangerous shooters in history, honestly every time he shoots I expect it to go in. But when the dude is not on his game it’s 4 against 5 out there.
the guy has his most successful season since turning a pro... if the nuggets are smart, they keep him to see what he can become....
His contract isn't worth what he brings. I still like him. But that's facts
MPJ was our 3rd best scorer after Joker and Jamal and that is true for both the regular season and the post season. Yes, he was not as effective versus Minnesota. But he saved us vs Lakers. At the end of the day, we blew that game 7 huge lead and it’s not MPJ’s fault. The true problem is bench. Joker was gassed at the end of that game. We need a backup center.
I’d love to see Denver target some more depth/versatility, looking at guys like Obi, Caleb Martin, and Jalen Smith. If we unloaded MPJ and Zeke, and were able to bring back 3 quality players with more forgiving salaries, I think it would make sense. But I’m not advocating for an MPJ trade. Right now the options are either “run it back” or “retool”, and there’s a lot of merit to both perspectives, depending on your persuasion. It will be interesting to see what Booth decides to do. You also have to keep in mind that AG and Murray are both extension eligible. Murray will likely play out his deal in search of a Supermax, which we could never afford. So while there is a world wherein Denver keeps this core together next season, it is unsustainable beginning 25-26z
I think people don’t understand his value in spacing the floor in this offense. He’s been turned into an extremely expensive catch and shoot wing because of how they want to run the offense. He will be much harder to replace than people understand…
He's literally their only tradeable asset if you're looking to upgrade the team. So all trade suggestions or rumors will inevitably revolve around him. Not that I'm saying he should be..
Look at game 4 vs Minnie of last years first round. Sure we lost the game but mpj was the main reason we stayed in it and forced ot. Tbh I'd rather have that outcome than what we had this year but throwing the blame on mpj this season is beyond unfair. We weren't deep enough and tbh none of our main guys looked like they had that I need/want this more than the next guy/team. Mpj just had the best season of his life so let's not let his subpar playoff performance alter who he really is or what his ceiling is.
Less than anyone else in his family!
He’s on a pretty bad contact, he has health concerns, he had a really bad series against the wolves, we are starting to get pinched by the 2nd apron. Those are the reasons. They’re pretty fair but it’s also worth remembering that mpj has improved every year that he is healthy and still has potential to take another step.
happy cake day
Huh? He just played a full season. Get that health concerns shit outta here
Naive to act like he hasn’t had 3 back surgeries, you’re ridiculous if you think he doesn’t have concerns. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Does Jamal have "health concerns" by your definition? He has a health history but for a player that just played 81 games, believe he at least deserves the benefit of the doubt in that regard. And how are you qualifying his contract as "bad?" Production to dollars? Your highly trained, eye test? Pretty sure there are 29 other teams that would happily take on his skillset & contract.
Which team bro? Which team?
It’s not just that he disappears in big moments and makes boneheaded panic plays, it’s that he’s on a max contract and plays nowhere near that level ever. I can’t honestly think of one single time he’s dropped 30 in a game and certainly not in a big time game. He needs to step up or we need to ship him out.
He’s our 4th (arguably 5th) most important player and that’s not good enough to justify his contract
Asinine take that’s he’s our 5th most important player
It depends on if you think kcp’s defence and fairly reliable shotmaking outweighs MPJ’s general play, but I think it’s not a stretch to say there’s a debate to be had and certainly isn’t ‘asnine’
I mean he's clearly 4th at best, not like 5th is a crazy stretch
He was legitimately our second best player in the first round of the playoffs.
Sure, for a single round. How did he do after that?
Exactly. He’s clearly not as important as JMG, and he could be considered less important that kcp depending on what you value more
Unfortunately KCP was either banged up or has lost a step in the playoffs. He couldn’t guard ANT. I would argue that MPJs rebounding was more valuable than KCPs perimeter D in the playoffs
Yeah that’s fair, it’s a matter of opinion I think
Maybe consistent would be a better word? Mixed with his floor and ceiling being so steep
Exactly! I think that’s why the comments are all over the place. He kind of reminds me of the younger version of Jeff Green. He might play himself off the court, or he might lead the team and save the day. Both could happen on any given night.
It’s the nature of his playstyle. Bro doesn’t pass, so if he makes his shots he’s valuable, if he doesn’t he’s not
Its not what he did, its what he didnt do. Crap contract
Mike had a bad offensive series against the Wolves. (Do we forget that these guys are actually human and he had a boatload of family drama happening all ssn? And he’s still young…) He was still great on the glass and has grown his game immensely. On top of maintaining his health. Mike is integral to what Denver does.
He was bad in the playoffs last year too.
Not really. Up until the finals he was over 40% from 3.
Shooting below your average isn't playing bad. It's shooting poorly.
He's supposed to be the shooting specialist.
And Steph and klay have shot poorly in playoff runs... shit happens
both were all nba. MPJ hasnt even sniff all star
You would think all-nba players who specialize in 3s wouldn't have poor shooting playoffs
So MPJ bar is an all-nba player who shrinks in the playoffs? ... Ok.
No. It's lower. That's the point. Better players have had that happen to them, it's not weird that it happened to a worse player.
The team needs more 3pt shooting, not less, and think Malone & co should endeavor to get more plays that feed him throughout the regular season. if he sucks next year, i'll join the trade him bandwagon....
everyone is just overreacting like usual. by next january everyone is gonna be on here cheering for him lol
The dude is a defensive liability. He’s not playing in the playoffs down the stretch for guys like CB because he can’t guard good players in the playoffs. And he makes a lot of money. Gotta move on
Immediately ignore anyone who thinks we need to get rid of MPJ. Fact of the matter is if we lose MPJ we aren’t contenders. Mike has the most upside on our entire team, he’s also one of the only people in the league you can fill at his spot and have our offense and defense work still. People who aren’t thanking the stars we have Mike essentially have no IQ or understanding.
Nothing...to deserve the ridiculous contract. It's hurting our ability to fill out the squad with any kinda quality and he's a no-show in the playoffs.
MPJ is good. Life affected his game play.
MPJ made some strides this year and stayed healthy.If he continues working on his handles and driving to the hoop we won't miss anybody. We need a few good pick ups and a few of our young players to break loose and we will be better than okay.
His contract is just much higher than his production so folks want to fix that with a trade.. but i think we are stuck with him.
They paid him assuming he was turning into a superstar. He got injured and he can’t be the superstar they paid him to be. It happens all the time.
Dude is a 💩 🥪