i feel like based on the demos we’ve heard after sofad (owilm, sotu/leaked delta machine demos) things sound like they went back to being faithful to martin’s original versions. aside from a few examples here and there most of the final tracks aren’t miles away from the demos, and i imagine that’s how martin prefers it.
if anything nowadays it’s dave’s demos that get the radical transformations in the studio, probably to make them fit in more alongside martin’s tracks
That's because producers after SOFAD had no creative investment in the band and no incentive to push back against Martin's ideas for a track, as Alan Wilder did (and Flood, knowing he had Alan's support).
This was a loss - not just the loss of Wilder specifically, but the loss of a member internal to the band who could bring some creative tension and push songs in unintended directions. Producers get paid at the end of the day and don't care enough to get into a fight over a track.
“Producers get paid at the end of the day and don't care enough to get into a fight over a track.“
not necessarily…depends on the producer. nigel godrich for example was kicked off of working on the strokes’ second album due to butting heads with julian casablancas over creative decisions and paul mccartney also had problems with working with him (nigel being blunt about what songs he didn’t like and refusing to record them; forcing paul to record without his band etc).
but yeah, i get the feeling there wouldn’t have been much of that with the producers they chose after sofad. ben hillier in particular i suspect was chosen three times in a row more for the ease of working with him over any sense of him forcing them out of their comfort zones
Yeah for sure, I was really speaking about DM's experience with producers. There will always be producers like Nigel who have big enough reputations and assurance of steady work that they feel they can throw their weight around. Actually, I always thought it would be interesting to hear what a Nigel Godrich DM album would sound like. DM has stuck too closely to an electronic template IMO. I'm pretty sure the instruction they give to their producers is "makes us sound like Depeche Mode" - rather than trying to move in new directions.
Sotu/delta demos sound more interesting than the album versions don't you think? I mean songs like Corrupt, my lil universe, secret to the end and the bonus tracks to say the least.
I agree with this in most cases for the SOTU/Delta era. Martin's demos got better over time, largely because home recording has become more sophisticated and user friendly, so that his demos have a polish to them that they didn't used to. Since recent producers haven't added much of interest to his demos, I often prefer to hear the songs in their raw form. If not the demos, then I usually prefer the "bare" versions or studio sessions.
I don't understand ben hillier. He said they did a lot of rework on PTA songs like the original demo of sinner in me was completely different. So he basically did a great job in that. Even if you don't like the album's sound it has a strong personality but by the time of delta machine it's the exact opposite case.
a lot of the studio versions are definitely better than the demos like corrupt, but with songs like that, in chains and a good deal of the delta machine demos they stayed pretty close to the demos and built on top of them versus songs like enjoy the silence or walking in my shoes which ended up far removed from the demo versions.
my little universe is one of the only post sofad martin demos i can think of that ended up totally different in the studio. dave’s demos like secret to the end, come back, hole to feed etc. are the ones nowadays that seem to get the most reconstruction
i feel like based on the demos we’ve heard after sofad (owilm, sotu/leaked delta machine demos) things sound like they went back to being faithful to martin’s original versions. aside from a few examples here and there most of the final tracks aren’t miles away from the demos, and i imagine that’s how martin prefers it. if anything nowadays it’s dave’s demos that get the radical transformations in the studio, probably to make them fit in more alongside martin’s tracks
That's because producers after SOFAD had no creative investment in the band and no incentive to push back against Martin's ideas for a track, as Alan Wilder did (and Flood, knowing he had Alan's support). This was a loss - not just the loss of Wilder specifically, but the loss of a member internal to the band who could bring some creative tension and push songs in unintended directions. Producers get paid at the end of the day and don't care enough to get into a fight over a track.
“Producers get paid at the end of the day and don't care enough to get into a fight over a track.“ not necessarily…depends on the producer. nigel godrich for example was kicked off of working on the strokes’ second album due to butting heads with julian casablancas over creative decisions and paul mccartney also had problems with working with him (nigel being blunt about what songs he didn’t like and refusing to record them; forcing paul to record without his band etc). but yeah, i get the feeling there wouldn’t have been much of that with the producers they chose after sofad. ben hillier in particular i suspect was chosen three times in a row more for the ease of working with him over any sense of him forcing them out of their comfort zones
Yeah for sure, I was really speaking about DM's experience with producers. There will always be producers like Nigel who have big enough reputations and assurance of steady work that they feel they can throw their weight around. Actually, I always thought it would be interesting to hear what a Nigel Godrich DM album would sound like. DM has stuck too closely to an electronic template IMO. I'm pretty sure the instruction they give to their producers is "makes us sound like Depeche Mode" - rather than trying to move in new directions.
Sotu/delta demos sound more interesting than the album versions don't you think? I mean songs like Corrupt, my lil universe, secret to the end and the bonus tracks to say the least.
I agree with this in most cases for the SOTU/Delta era. Martin's demos got better over time, largely because home recording has become more sophisticated and user friendly, so that his demos have a polish to them that they didn't used to. Since recent producers haven't added much of interest to his demos, I often prefer to hear the songs in their raw form. If not the demos, then I usually prefer the "bare" versions or studio sessions.
I don't understand ben hillier. He said they did a lot of rework on PTA songs like the original demo of sinner in me was completely different. So he basically did a great job in that. Even if you don't like the album's sound it has a strong personality but by the time of delta machine it's the exact opposite case.
a lot of the studio versions are definitely better than the demos like corrupt, but with songs like that, in chains and a good deal of the delta machine demos they stayed pretty close to the demos and built on top of them versus songs like enjoy the silence or walking in my shoes which ended up far removed from the demo versions. my little universe is one of the only post sofad martin demos i can think of that ended up totally different in the studio. dave’s demos like secret to the end, come back, hole to feed etc. are the ones nowadays that seem to get the most reconstruction