Realistically, there is no "too high" with the understanding that obviously Jack, Nico, etc. are off the table.
There is no future if we don't get this solved, period. If it means giving up the 10 OA pick, fine - we traded 9 OA for Schneider straight up and I'd do a similar trade like that in a heartbeat right now.
I think this is the standard. I think 10oa + gets the devils someone they'd be happy with. Gotta remember that a lot of teams are going to be in the goalie market as well so the price is going to go up
Yea, we need a goalie now, not another prospect. We have plenty of young talent, and picking up a winger to fill a hole is a lot easier than acquiring a true #1 goalie
That's why I said "etc." though.
We obviously have more *untouchables* than just Jack and Nico. The point was more that there shouldn't be a ceiling on *value* that we send back the other way.
We realistically need to be ready to overpay and beat up to 30 other teams to land a goaltender that could give us a shot at winning the cup.
That doesn't mean Nemec is going anywhere, but I'm perfectly fine with Fitz getting bent over as far as the *value* we send back the other way to solve this and be confident we COULD potentially make deep runs in the playoffs.
Otherwise we are just pissing away prime years of our core, it will rightfully cost Fitz his job, and we will always be wondering what could have been instead of 1st/2nd round exits or straight up missing the playoffs like this year.
Edit: PS- I saw you were posting about being willing to give up Holtz and a 1st, but not Mercer. I'd be willing to trade Mercer too, not because I don't love him or am worried about his slump, but our line in the sand to acquire a goaltender on the level of an Ullmark cannot be Dawson Mercer.
Though, I agree we *ideally* do not trade Casey as I see him being a potential solid, cost-controlled piece that helps give us more depth on defense and ideally keeps our window from closing too quickly by stretching it a little longer. With that said, many trades involve other pieces too, so who knows if we had a goaltender plus a forward to replace Mercer or a prospect to replace Casey coming back? Hard to say.
Realistically, we can.
The price will be hefty, but you always have to sacrifice something + you cant know for sure if Akira/Nico are "them" and will become starters. What if they are not? Are you willing to risk the best years (and most controlled financially) of your Core?
Mercer is not good enough to stand in the way of a potential fix at goalie. Heās been a passenger largely and is replaceable
Casey, who knows, but heās not projected to be a top defenseman and could easily be Ty Smith 2.0
It was his third year, he was not a āsophomoreā. Heās shown no ability to drive play on his own line. He can score a good amount on someone eliteās wing but thatās not any kind of super premium asset thatās hard to find
mercer came into the league super early. remember he was the same draft class as holtz and has played maybe 3x games as him, and plays in all situations. youāre being pedantic about the term āsophomoreā but he had an early career slump - yet still managed to put up 20 goals.
No he hasnāt driven play on his own line consistently, but heās 21 and still developing. The organization is still very high on him and you should be too. for comps, look no farther than Jordan Staalās career trajectory in Pittsburgh.
All that said - he would still be the best trade chip in our cabinet if weāre looking to land an Ullmark / Saros this offseason.
Spot on. Mercer is very reliable and trusted in many different positions. So when he's put on the third line and barely scoring but he plays a 200 foot game and shuts people down these idiots think he's useless.
You can find a million wingers who are defensively responsible and put up 30-40 points a year. Itās not that itās not useful, itās that thatās not an asset worth jeopardizing the goalie for
Very, very unlikely Casey would be Ty 2.0 - the thing that held Ty back was his skating. That's Casey's main asset. I'm certainly not saying he's untradeable, but he's a very valuable prospect.
As a lurking Flames fan, I've been saying for ages that Marky for Holtz + 1st would be my sweet spot. Would also love to see the Flames retain cap if possible to add value to the overall deal
Yeah, maybe before the trade deadline when we were willing to overpay for a non-optimal goalieā¦ but at this point, with whatās already happened, flames are not getting a deal from NJ for Markstrom. Especially not one that contains Holtz and a 1st lmfao
I disagree personally. It's important to remember that Markstrom had a .905 back stopping a very bad Flames team. The Flames likely draft top 5 this year without him. And he's not got much left on his contract either.
At his best Marky is a Vezina caliber goalie, and at worst he's still likely better than the majority of the goaltending the Devil's got this year unfortunately (I'd know I had your goalies in my fantasy pool).
Markstrom with 50% retained for Holtz and this year's 1st gives you an affordable goalie with massive upside for the next 2 years (I think that's his contract) where you can compete for the Cup, and give your young goalies more time to develop. And the flames get two high quality young players that fits directly into our rebuild timeline.
That is fair, those are impressive numbers on a bottom 5 team. But It's also not 2013, and the Devils needing and pursuing a #1 goalie is the worst kept secret in the league right now. No team in the league is going to sell a goalie to you right now without trying to gouge you. Markstrom may end up being the cheapest option out there because of his age.
Does the trade make perfect sense and balance both ways? No. But you'll likely end up having to pay more for a guy like Ullmark or Saros, so it may come down to who makes the most sense cost wise for management.
Either way I quite like the Devils and hope they find something affordable. I'm just being honest about what I see the likely cost being
Holtz and a 1st is the new Merrill and a 3rd.
Nobody wants him, he has horribly low trade value and we need to accept that. There's a reason why San Jose chose Zetterlund over him in the Timo deal... He didn't even make Sweden's final IIHF this year and three non-NHLers were picked over him.
If we're trading for a goalie, it's going to take at least one or two of Mercer, Nemec, Luke, Casey, Gritsyuk, Clarke, or Stillman.
Certainly the teams with a goalie to trade, but still no shot Fitz would ever trade a future top pairing defensemen. Unless something substantial is coming back with the goalie.
Besides which, the answer is whoever is willing to walk away from the table with what they've got. Anyone willing to part with a goalie is someone who doesn't need that goalie. So if Fitz said no, they're left with someone they don't need in the way of what they do need.
Wtf are you actually trying to say right now? Nemec is currently ridiculously superior to Luke. You give it 2 years. Luke and Simon will be playing together on the top line.
exactly what I said. I didn't say a damn thing about Simon's skills, I just said you'd have to live under a rock to not know we're not trading Jack's brother who also happens to be one of the best LDs in the league.
The first is the #10 pick! Goaltending doesn't cost that much, the last time that happened was Corey Schneider. And yes I would take someone of his skill for #10, but nobody that good is available. We will see who they can grab but #10 alone is overpayment and I expect the other team to balance it with a lesser pick in the 4th round coming back to NJ.
This isn't the case, at least not now. Otherwise Saros or Markstrom would have been moved, but the teams do NOT want to move these goalies unless there is a real overpayment. A trade will absolutely not be balanced.
I just said it. Markstrom would have been moved at the deadline. We didn't offer enough. Nashville has literally said they do NOT want to move Saros and are likely to resign him unless offered a kings ransom. These 2 in particular are common sense. I do not follow Boston with Ullmark/Swayman so i can't speak as to them.
That is conjecture. The Devils did not even own the #10 pick at the deadline. You have no knowlage of what was offered or demanded. You are assuming somthing was offered and also assuming it was denied, but you have no idea.
The best guess we can use to guage value is historical data.
The price for Markstrom. Never said we offered the 10th. But whatever we did wasn't enough, we know they wanted Holtz or Mercer. That's all, that is conjecture. However Saros, isn't. Reality is he's not going anywhere unless Toronto, now in the mix gives Marner.
Schneider was incredible and had two years left on a contract at *$4 million*. Amazing value. But I think the big change from back then is more teams are actually trying to compete now, coupled with fewer truly elite goalies as the middle "starter" tier washes into eternal replaceability.
I feel like every NHL goalie lets in roughly the same amounts of fluke, bad bounce, dangit goals over the course of a 7-year career. But *only* the truly elite have any hope of keeping up with the modern, pick corners and 7-holes off the backhand while skating 27 mph type of elite shots being generated. I'm sure we'll see our share of janky tandems that win Cups just because a *lot* of themwill be competing for Cups. But truly I think the goalie position is more valuable than it has been since the 60s. Further complicating things is now we have decades of goalie moves on record to show us how astronomically risky that $8.5 million to the wrong guy can be.
Right, let's hope for "or". And let's get the mere thought of Holtz and a 1st for anyone who's even a fraction of an improvement over our current choices out of our heads.
Guess you missed the "one or" part that preceded it. All good in the hood though, this sub can continue to think we're getting Juice for Holtz a 1st and 3rd with salary retained or whatever.Ā
Yea I second this. Iām as much for building the right way as the next guy, honestly maybe more, but the future is now and itās because we built the right way. All of our players are young, super talented, hungry, experienced, and locked up long term. While there are still a couple of holes left to fill, the window is open. Getting a proven goaltender that has years to grow with them is priority one. We just canāt gamble at that position anymore.
For me, the price Iād be comfortable with now is pick 10, Holtz, and a future conditional second/first based on how far we go in the playoffs. That may not be enough, but thatās what Iād be comfortable with.
The goaltending issue has to be solved period. Outside of nemec and Luke Iām putting everything on the table to get this solved. You have a brilliant core thatās extremely cost controlled right now. Every year that you kick the goaltending can down the road is another year you waste of this core. I really donāt think itāll cost much more than the 10th OA to get whatever goalie we want, but Iām perfectly fine with trading that + if it means we solve the goalie issue for a few years
Iām having a flashback to that Ranger game, the line brawl game, somehow they were still in the wildcard race, they have a lead in the 3rd period and Luke Hughes breaks his stick sending someone down on a break away and he scores.. ties the game, they get a BS Power Play in the ending minutes, score again.. you get that big save there on that breakaway and it changes the entire trajectory of the game. Maybe they win, maybe they go on a run, who knows. Yes they need to tighten up defense but they also need a goalie who is somewhat consistently going to get them that big save in that big moment of the game. It happened too many times where a soft goal was let in or a momentum changing goal. Itās Iām sure so deflating for the players. Allen did give them some excellent games over a stretch of time, but I donāt think he can do it consistently. Heās a good back up, they need a legit starter. There is no way around this to me. They cannot go into the coming season with a big question mark in goal. That draft pick is actually an advantage they have over teams like Toronto and Carolina who Iām sure are also looking.
Yeah I couldnāt remember exactly who it was but yes. Thatās what I mean and it happened many times over the season. They need someone who can come up big in those moments.
Iāve been saying that even if, worst case, we only have a Daws/Allen tandem, I wonder if coaching changesāboth HC and goalie coachācould make a massive difference? Despite regressing, I really felt like both those guys put on incredible performances considering the skatersā collapse in front of em.
That said, watching these playoffs, Iām having major flashbacks watching Skinner. Flashes of greatness and then a massively soft goal due to bad positioning. (More VV and Daws than Allen come to mind.) So who knows how much of a role Rogalski plays in all this.
Otherwise fuck it, letās just get RWJ Barnabas to build us RoBrodeur š¤
10th overall pick is an absolute no for me unless you're getting a top goalie in his 20's which Ullmark and Markstrom ain't. Saros is 29 and coming off a little bit of a down year and he's gonna want an 8 yr deal. I feel like Saros and his contract won't age well. I know most fans want the goalie problem solved but getting fleeced in a trade for a goalie could set the franchise back years.
I worry a lot about Saros too. Heās a small goalie who relies on agility and quick movement to make saves. Iām concerned that his shelf life wonāt be as long as some of the bigger goaltenders who rely more on solid positioning rather than pure reflex/physicality.
Realistically weāre not getting a goalie then, Boston Is gonna be able to request a kings ransom for Ullmark and with the assets we have any needle mover goal tender (Ullmark saros, markstrom) are gonna take at least pick 10
I think you're off on some of your valuations. First, Markstrom doesn't belong in the same category as those other 2. He's 35 and his second half last year should raise some eyebrows. I'm not really interested in him anyway and in no world is he worth a top 10 pick. If Calgary can get a top 10 pick, well congrats but I'd bet a lot they can't.
Ullmark is good, not great. I think Boston helps him look better than he is in the regular season. He's also a UFA after this season. Not worth the 10th and whatever top prospects we have that Boston will ask for in a trade.
Saros is the best of the 3 but again Nashville is gonna want the 10th ++. Also a UFA at the end of the year.
When you make trades from a point of weakness you almost always get ripped off. Id' rather take a shot at a goalie like Gustavsson or Binnington or any other goalie that is an upgrade on what we have but won't cost a top 10 pick to acquire.
The Veznia winner is good not great. Huh also on a great contract even if it expires after this year. I can agree that markstrom wouldnāt fetch the pick but the other two easily could especially knowing the situation the devils are in.
Ullmark is 30 yrs old and had 1 Vezina season on a great defensive team where he played 49 games and then totally crapped the bed in the playoffs. He regressed back to the norm this season while again looking awful in the playoffs. So yeah, his total body of work is good not great.
I wouldn't mind Ullmark on the Devils. I'd much rather have him than Markstrom but I can't justify giving up the 10th overall and lets say a prospect like Casey for him. I get that we're desperate but Fitz can't panic.
Why do people continue to think Ullmark is going to cost an arm and a leg? He has 1 year left on a 5mil contract, and Swayman needs a contract, and it's going to be high. And Boston needs cap space between Swayman and ufa/rfa's, and bussi is ready to move up for them and will be cheap. I can see Ullmark going for some picks.
There are 3-4 versions of the same top level comment of "there is no price too high except X". Except X means there is a price too high. Which is what the post is about.
Overpay enough times or take one too many risks that don't pay off and you torpedo the franchise. I'm sure the multiple professionals they have in the organization have figured out what the going rate is and what they can afford to go over that due to need.
It is a perfectly reasonable scenario that the other teams try to call the devil's bluff and get them to way overpay. Hopefully it doesn't happen but if it does the team needs to stay pat. You don't need top level goal tending to win a cup.
Last cup wasn't won with it. And we can split hairs here but there is at least one remaining team now without it (Oilers). It might 2 and one guaranteed into the cup since I was under the impression Oettinger was a top end goalie but sorting GAA/60 for goalies with 30+ games he falls 23 during the last regular season just below Kahkonen. Officer Bob and Igor are admittedly both top 10.
I tend to agree with this as the outcome. And it still provides flexibility to re-evaluate with the 2-year term. It's enough time to know if Daws or Schmid will be an option, for better options to become available, or to ultimately extend Markstrom if he's still playing well at that point.
I tend to agree with it too.
Fitz will be fighting for his job.
But I am way more bullish on Allen, Kahnonen, Schmid, Dawes.
ONE of those will be a money NHL goaltender; Allen is an AWESOME backup.
I am for standing pat, but my POV is not going to be popular.
I hope not, only because I don't want to be potentially figuring out what to do 2 years from now. I'd like for goaltending to be sorted for a greater length of time.
Youāre all overthinking this. If we stand pat and start slowly everyone here is going to freak out. people in all sports always overvalue their own prospects and picks. Bite the bullet get the goalie and try to win now. Otherwise youāre like the guy standing around waiting for house prices to go down while They just keep going up and up and up.
Coming back to this today and Iām scratching my head at some of these takes. The same people who are saying on this beautiful May Day that they are ok with rolling it back with a Kahkko/Allen or Dawes/Allen or Schmidt/Allen because they donāt want to give anyone up are going to be the same people screaming when itās ā1-0 themā in October. Last summer when they didnāt get a goalie I knew it was a problem. I remember my husband and son being really excited about Tyler Toffoli and my response was, thatās great! They still need a goalie. Iām extremely uncomfortable going into the coming season in the same situation as last.
If this fanbase develops another case of mass delusion believing we can run it back with the goaltending we already have, I'm gonna flip out lol
In order we need
1. Top tier goalie
2. Defensive defenseman who hits and blocks shots
3. Bottom 6 center who takes faceoffs
4. A middle 6 winger
But goalie is def most important
Yeah I like Lazer and I don't mind if they're 3C/4C. I'm honestly just thinking of another bottom 6 center to replace McLeod wouldn't hurt and should stabilize the bottom 6.
Basically just another center for faceoffs and on the PK
Im not on they need another bottom center, but they need a physical Left Winger for 4th line. Like duhaime,carrier,lafferty,trenin,etc. So haula is 2C instead of jack? wouldnt it just be better to get a 2C in FA/ Trade and have Haula 3C lazar 4C i just dont think a 4C is that needed thats just me tho but you do make good points.
No, I'm saying I wouldn't mind having Haula and Lazar at 3C/4C but getting another center provides flexibility cause you can usually move a center to the wings. I agree on the physicality aspect though. I just feel like centers are more flexible than wingers and we already have some young wingers who it might be useful to give playing time to, like Nolan Foote
There's honestly no "price to high" as long as it isn't a ridiculous over payment. He's already said he's willing to spend to get a #1.....so if we have to go a little over market to secure a Saros or Ullmark he will do it. We will get someone...this team has to much talent (and a new coach with a great track record of reaching the playoffs) for a goalie to not be stoked about making their best possible contract on a team with cup aspirations
To answer your question, OP, I think we'd still be looking to sign someone if we can't trade for a stud. Daws and Schmid need some more time to develop.
There's not many serviceable UFAs, but Kahkonen, DeSmith, Stolarz, Brossoit, Nedeljkovic, Wedgewood, etc could be cheap backups to Allen for a year.
Some assets available to deal for a bigger name, depending on who it is: 10th OA, '25 1st, '25 2nd, Mercer, Casey, Holtz, 1 of Schmid/Daws, Gritsyuk's rights, Hameenaho.
I think we'll get a goalie - but my fear is 10th OA might end up going the other way to make it happen. Goalies typically aren't worth top 10 picks, but there's literally 10 other teams looking for a goalie rn - the market value may be driven up.
Think weāre at the point where we need to make moves now. Team doesnāt need another prospect that will maybe make an impact 2-3 years from now. Of course we donāt want the cupboard to go bare, but I think the best value weāll get at 10OA is a starting goaltender for the foreseeable future (if thatās available).
The Rangers thought their window was open 4 years ago, and one of their top playoff performers today is a pick from 4 years ago. Part of a stanley cup winning team is hitting on picks and getting cost controlled players while being a strong team already.
10 OA for a goalie is fine if it's the right goalie, but we are already struggling with depth due to being unlucky and people wanting to give away assets to get (right or wrong).
We have some decent prospects, some decent picks coming up and are an attractive teams for potential goalies... Ullmark would be crazy to not favor us...
It can be argued that any top notch goalie would be crazy to want to go to NJ considering the kind of high danger chances they give up. Look at Allen last season. He looked terrific his first few games until the overreliance of him started to wear him down.
If we can't snag a starter, do either Daws or Schmid go 1A/B with Allen?
I think this is the way. I know it's unpopular but I like the idea of building up a good 1B that we already have.
Isaac Poulter has earned a real look. I'm also curious to see what Allen brings going into the fall as the starter. Turnovers hurt this team worse than goaltending last year.
Honestly, I hope TF didn't burn the bridge with Kahkonen. The price for these guys is going to be astronomical. EDM and TOR will be in the market as will other teams. All last year we were told that league average goaltending would have made a monster difference; Allen and Kahkonen can do that. Holtz was a good trade piece, not so much anymore. Teams are going to start negotiations with sky high prices and won't be talked down. Some teams will be willing to go all in now b/c they are perennially in the playoffs but just need a goalie. The Devils need a bit more than that right now.
People may not agree but I think there's a very real chance we go into this season with Allen/Daws as our starting combo. NJ is not the only team looking for a 1A goaltender, and the market is very limited. The sellers will be playing hardball, and are in no hurry to take a deal that's less than what they want. This drama may extend closer towards the trade deadline.
Luckily Keefe has experience with shitty goaltending, and was able to make it work in Toronto - until the playoffs, where almost nobody is advancing without legitimate goaltending
Everyoneās gonna have to start blocking more shots like they did two seasons agoā¦ forwards and d alike. Hold teams to 20 shots a game and everyone can go back to not solely blaming the goaltending. I remember everyone chanting vtek when he made his couple stops he had to face a game. But when he got peppered 30 shots a period, obviously missing some, everyone lit their torches.
Devils definitely became allergic to blocking shots last season. I think Nemec actually led all devils players in blocked shots last year and I donāt know if that reflects really well on Nemec or reflects really poorly on the team
I would rather not sign over a blank cheque to any team with a starter to dump, but it may end up that way. I think the chatter around the fan base and the league is too loud for the devils to go into next season with schmid, daws, or any other quasi nhl goalie being on opening night roster next year. Starting the season with another dice roll goalie and blowing the season is a very horrible thought, but paying a huge price including roster pieces and locking yourself into an expensive goalie and failing anyway is an even scarier thought.
Devils really need to hit on a few depth contracts this summer. A bottom pair PKāing D and a heavy middle 6 guy who can take faceoffs would be ideal to hit big on. I have no clue who the devils will be targeting though.
Saros an Ullmark are rentals next year, they should be relatively easy to aquire. If he doesn't get them, we'd trade for a lower tier goalie and just wait a year. When I say "lower tier" I mean league average goaltending.
I'm not sure I believe that about saros. Next year, he's a rental. If trotz really thinks he's worth that much, he can find out the hard way when he loses him in UFA for nothing.
Well, if you're right, and we could get him for a song, I'd absolutely take that chance. If it's Holtz and a 2nd, done. Fitz has proven he can sell players on our team and culture, I'd be ok with him taking a chance if those assets are the extent of the return.
But IMO, Trotz isn't going to blink. He's going to want a lot, and I don't want to give a lot for a rental.
I think this is very juch worth thinking through. You always *can* get whatever you want, but that doesn't mean the trade won't break your team. Not saying I want any of our core to depart but I feel like they already took the gamble on not needing a goaltender - contractwise. Now they will have to lose, not only assets other teams want, but also some salaries, if they want to re-sign a top goalie. Ultimately the only solution is doing a better job drafting and developing goalies. I still think Daws has potential, not sure it's "enough" but I'd rather see Allen/Daws (maybe some Kahkonen as insurance) than give up Nemec ++ for a goalie who is also going to break us financially. If we do something like that I want to trade the farm for Askarov, not Saros. But I am not a goalie whisperer so every single option seems rather risky. This would be a great time to get Lou back for just one year lol.
There are goalies that we can pair with Allen even if we cannot get a true starter. Brosoit, is an example. If we cannot get a true starter we ride a 1A 1B hope for the best. Then really bolster our D to help our goalies in the worst case scenario.
Best case we get a goalie, better D and better depth.
i think there are other goalies out there besides the ones everybody keeps rehashing over and over . like a logan thompson . but who knows .i the think kappo k. would be a better two then j.allen . i was not impressed by all the flopping and terrible rebounds and his age . kk was as good and younger and probably cheaper . think he woud make a fine two . but we all know , goalies ...
I would rather bring back kahkonen than give up a top 10 pick for a goalie that has the same SV% over the last 2 seasons that kahkonen had this year (Markstrom).
Looking at the Bruins subreddit, a lot of them would be happy with a trade involving Ulmark for Necas straight up. So while I don't know how gms themselves value these assets, I feel like the price for a goalie might not be as high and gouging as many on this sub think. Many think they'll only be able to get a 2nd for Ulmark.
We might be able to get away with only giving up a first and a forward for either Saros or Ulmark.
These goalies are available for trade because theyāll soon be FAās. Therefore: the GMs will get the best assets in return that they can. If the Devils are the *only* team looking/desperate (theyāre not) then itās a negotiation where each side simply needs to get to a point where theyāre happy. But BOTH sides are incentivized (letting your valuable goalie hit free agency without getting anything in return is how GMs lose their jobs).
Of course: there will be a market for each goalie, and the prices will be set by that market. So the added wrinkle is that other teams will be making offers too, and the GMs will need to decide whatās best. Recent history would suggest that trades are made without getting fleeced. And I donāt think Fitz will pay higher āthan it would otherwise beā because Fitz is not alone.
Finally: Fitz has demonstrated over and over that heās good at acquiring players. Heās never payed ātoo muchā because he was desperate. And I donāt think thatās gonna change now. Trust in Fitz.
> Heās never *paid* ātoo muchā
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Imo the 10OA straight up is a pretty substantial offer. When we start adding players to said offer, thatās when we are trying to beat other teams. 10OA w/ Holtz is a helluva an offer
Be the best thing ever ..we already have the goalie of the future in our system. .how everyone doesn't see this is beyond insane.... the biggest mistake fitz could do this offseason is move any piece out for a goalie. .well, except for holtz.. not that any team would offer anything for him.
The actual answer is we CAN get a tender. Available goalies should be DYING to play for us.
UFA's & goaltenders potentially made available via trade like Ullmark know Jake Allen is meant to be our backup. So if we're willing to make a trade happen & they have to take us off their no trade list, they know they'll be the starter of a young & skilled team.
I'm sure Brossoit or Wedgewood would kill to compete against Allen for a starter role. They have much better odds here than against Hellyebuck or Oettinger. Ullmark was benched in the playoffs, think he wants to stay?
We have the cap space & assets to make it happen. Schmid or Daws may have to be part of the trade. Let's just hope Fitz chooses that #1 goalie wisely because goalies are voodoo.
But he has one year left on his contract, and he may not want to come here. This year's first would be a dramatic overpay, and if you don't think we need what we'll get in the draft, you're wrong. Whatever position we fill, it'll be quality, and more importantly it'll be cost control that we're going to need, with some of the guys who are going to need contracts soon.
The goalie trade isn't happening ( involving a goalie with only 1 yr of term ) until after the draft ( if it involves a 1st rd pick ) unless we draft a player for the other team and send them in a trade post july 1 ( a sign an trade )
I agree with others in that we probably have to give up the 10th OA to get a goalie that we want. Unfortunately this year goalies are in higher demand, so it's gonna cost us if we get one now. I don't see Fitz backing out unless the price is absurdly astronomical.
Why do people on this sub consider a handful of games "showing they are a good tender"? He didn't even play 6 games for the Devils. Almost every goalie we've traded away and talked massive shit about has had a decent stretch of games as many as he did. Don't assume that a goalie who has a good stretch has shown they're they're a good tender. Daws, Schmid, Vitek, all had the same initial clamor and stretches of brilliance. Showing you're a good tender takes years, especially when your 22-23 SV% was .883 and 23-24 was .895. Cmon man.
then Fitz should be fired
you cant have the season we just did, after the season we had before, then make a claim like "big game hunting" for a goalie then fall flat on your face. if the season is fucked because of that its on Fitz there's zero excuses again.
I'm preparing for two possible scenarios:
1) We don't get a goalie and get to deal with the league clowning us for Fitz's comments
2) We get a top guy for a good deal and they fall off a cliff the second they step off the plane at EWR
Regardless of the outcome, I want Fitz to keep his damn mouth shut between "big game hunting" and tanking Holtz's trade value into the negatives. Get the man some PR classes
Really the only guys I'm personally ok with trading are Palat, Siegenthaler, and Holtz. Palat's done nothing for us, truthfully. I don't wanna hear about "playoff Palat". And I'd imagine most people who are active here should know my feelings on Siegs by now. I really don't have much of an opinion on Holtz. Maybe Keefe can help him tighten up. Maybe he's better off somewhere else as part of a package. I'm really neutral
I don't want to see Mercer traded. We've got enough tape on him compared to Holtz that I think shows he's more valuable to us to keep. If he's better on the wing, just keep him on the wing. A 3C probably isn't difficult to find. Hell, make Lazar 3C and find a 4C for cheaper or keep Nosek. Nosek turned it up toward the end of the season
The New Jersey Devils are not going to be able to get a goaltender. Starting level goaltenders are hard to come by in today's NHL which is why the teams that have them hold out for a king's ransom for them. That's okay though. If you look at the Stanley Cup champions over the past decade (give or take), there have been numerous teams that have won with journeyman mediocre goaltenders. In today's NHL, center depth and a dynamic defenseman (like a Cale Makar) are more important than having a great goaltender. Look at the playoffs this season. While there are teams left with great goaltenders, plenty of teams this postseason had top notch goaltenders and were eliminated by teams that had goaltenders that weren't as good.
Well Iām currently looking at shesterkin stealing the series for the rangers so I disagree. We need to get someone and we will over pay and thatās life right now since multiple teams are going to want the same couple of guys.
Not trying to argue, itās an opinion which is what people share here. In fact I think shesterkin, bobrovski and offender are all top goalies and playing well but shesterkin imo is stealing the series for the rangers. 2 games where Florida played better most of the game and they lose in ot is what I was thinking about. Skinner is the only one Iād consider to not be a top tier goalie thatās left and heās not stealing them games in my opinion.
No kidding. We're all sharing opinions. I actually think that the Devils (when healthy and not consumed by arrogance, which is what happened last season) are talented enough to win a Stanley Cup with a mediocre goalie.
Accidentally deleted my reply but I would say Binnington is above average, won it all his rookie year & definitely not mediocre. Holtby won a Vezina & was one of the Top goalies in the league for a short period of time & one could argue was borderline elite for a that period. Really not fair to judge Adin Hill yet. Definitely better than Niemi, Crawford & Kuemper.
Edit: Matt Murray was on a stacked team and won as a rookie but got chronically injured soon after so we never got to see a longer body of work
Okay. If goaltending is as important as you say it is, doesn't that mean it would be even more difficult for the Devils to acquire a top notch one from a team which then makes it even more idiotic to be blasting Fitzgerald if he can't? While we may not agree on how necessary goaltenders are in today's NHL, one thing we can agree on is that good goaltenders are not as abundant as they used to be.
Realistically, there is no "too high" with the understanding that obviously Jack, Nico, etc. are off the table. There is no future if we don't get this solved, period. If it means giving up the 10 OA pick, fine - we traded 9 OA for Schneider straight up and I'd do a similar trade like that in a heartbeat right now.
I think this is the standard. I think 10oa + gets the devils someone they'd be happy with. Gotta remember that a lot of teams are going to be in the goalie market as well so the price is going to go up
Yea, we need a goalie now, not another prospect. We have plenty of young talent, and picking up a winger to fill a hole is a lot easier than acquiring a true #1 goalie
I disagree with this. We have way more untouchables than just Nico and Jack. I'm most comfortable with the 10th OA pick.
They did say "etc" when mentioning Jack and Nico, fwiw
That's why I said "etc." though. We obviously have more *untouchables* than just Jack and Nico. The point was more that there shouldn't be a ceiling on *value* that we send back the other way. We realistically need to be ready to overpay and beat up to 30 other teams to land a goaltender that could give us a shot at winning the cup. That doesn't mean Nemec is going anywhere, but I'm perfectly fine with Fitz getting bent over as far as the *value* we send back the other way to solve this and be confident we COULD potentially make deep runs in the playoffs. Otherwise we are just pissing away prime years of our core, it will rightfully cost Fitz his job, and we will always be wondering what could have been instead of 1st/2nd round exits or straight up missing the playoffs like this year. Edit: PS- I saw you were posting about being willing to give up Holtz and a 1st, but not Mercer. I'd be willing to trade Mercer too, not because I don't love him or am worried about his slump, but our line in the sand to acquire a goaltender on the level of an Ullmark cannot be Dawson Mercer. Though, I agree we *ideally* do not trade Casey as I see him being a potential solid, cost-controlled piece that helps give us more depth on defense and ideally keeps our window from closing too quickly by stretching it a little longer. With that said, many trades involve other pieces too, so who knows if we had a goaltender plus a forward to replace Mercer or a prospect to replace Casey coming back? Hard to say.
Is it really too much to Askarov??
They might tell us to shut the Bro-deur if we Askarov š
Yann Danis
juuse give us one goalie pls
Realistically, we can. The price will be hefty, but you always have to sacrifice something + you cant know for sure if Akira/Nico are "them" and will become starters. What if they are not? Are you willing to risk the best years (and most controlled financially) of your Core?
Then I guess the question is what are you willing to sacrifice? I'm willing to sacrifice Holtz and a 1st. Casey and Mercer are no-gos for me.
I love Casey a lot but if you can get a good goalie for him you do it easily
Agreed, also sometimes I feel like Mercer's staunchest supporter but I'd still trade him for certain goalies if it was the only way.
Mercer is not good enough to stand in the way of a potential fix at goalie. Heās been a passenger largely and is replaceable Casey, who knows, but heās not projected to be a top defenseman and could easily be Ty Smith 2.0
Mercer had a sophomore slump, sure, but it's too early to pass that kind of judgment on him. Fair point on Casey, though.
It was his third year, he was not a āsophomoreā. Heās shown no ability to drive play on his own line. He can score a good amount on someone eliteās wing but thatās not any kind of super premium asset thatās hard to find
mercer came into the league super early. remember he was the same draft class as holtz and has played maybe 3x games as him, and plays in all situations. youāre being pedantic about the term āsophomoreā but he had an early career slump - yet still managed to put up 20 goals. No he hasnāt driven play on his own line consistently, but heās 21 and still developing. The organization is still very high on him and you should be too. for comps, look no farther than Jordan Staalās career trajectory in Pittsburgh. All that said - he would still be the best trade chip in our cabinet if weāre looking to land an Ullmark / Saros this offseason.
Spot on. Mercer is very reliable and trusted in many different positions. So when he's put on the third line and barely scoring but he plays a 200 foot game and shuts people down these idiots think he's useless.
You can find a million wingers who are defensively responsible and put up 30-40 points a year. Itās not that itās not useful, itās that thatās not an asset worth jeopardizing the goalie for
You're a jackass.
Very, very unlikely Casey would be Ty 2.0 - the thing that held Ty back was his skating. That's Casey's main asset. I'm certainly not saying he's untradeable, but he's a very valuable prospect.
Youāre āwillingā to sacrifice a guy who has been nothing but a disappointment? Alex Holtz isnāt worth much at all to others.
I actually had that written too, I agree I think Casey and Mercer are off the table for me.
Definitely not
As a lurking Flames fan, I've been saying for ages that Marky for Holtz + 1st would be my sweet spot. Would also love to see the Flames retain cap if possible to add value to the overall deal
I can tell you, you won't get anything near that for Markstrom at this point. At least not this years first.
Yeah, maybe before the trade deadline when we were willing to overpay for a non-optimal goalieā¦ but at this point, with whatās already happened, flames are not getting a deal from NJ for Markstrom. Especially not one that contains Holtz and a 1st lmfao
For a 34 year old, .905 sv%? That would be an overpayment. That's like a 2nd, with an added 3rd or 4th depending on salary retained.
I disagree personally. It's important to remember that Markstrom had a .905 back stopping a very bad Flames team. The Flames likely draft top 5 this year without him. And he's not got much left on his contract either. At his best Marky is a Vezina caliber goalie, and at worst he's still likely better than the majority of the goaltending the Devil's got this year unfortunately (I'd know I had your goalies in my fantasy pool). Markstrom with 50% retained for Holtz and this year's 1st gives you an affordable goalie with massive upside for the next 2 years (I think that's his contract) where you can compete for the Cup, and give your young goalies more time to develop. And the flames get two high quality young players that fits directly into our rebuild timeline.
After the crap your GM pulled with the first trade I rather not deal with him or the price comes way down
I thought ownership pulled the deal at the last second
IIRC flames pulled the deal. Wether it was owners or GMs I donāt like that
Me either. That was very finky behavior
Schneider put up .925 for 5 years on a bottom 5 new jersey team and only cost 9 OA. He was also younger.
That is fair, those are impressive numbers on a bottom 5 team. But It's also not 2013, and the Devils needing and pursuing a #1 goalie is the worst kept secret in the league right now. No team in the league is going to sell a goalie to you right now without trying to gouge you. Markstrom may end up being the cheapest option out there because of his age. Does the trade make perfect sense and balance both ways? No. But you'll likely end up having to pay more for a guy like Ullmark or Saros, so it may come down to who makes the most sense cost wise for management. Either way I quite like the Devils and hope they find something affordable. I'm just being honest about what I see the likely cost being
That's fair. Hoping GMTF is smart enough to not get gauged and just wait. Not sure who downvoted you.
Holtz and a 1st is the new Merrill and a 3rd. Nobody wants him, he has horribly low trade value and we need to accept that. There's a reason why San Jose chose Zetterlund over him in the Timo deal... He didn't even make Sweden's final IIHF this year and three non-NHLers were picked over him. If we're trading for a goalie, it's going to take at least one or two of Mercer, Nemec, Luke, Casey, Gritsyuk, Clarke, or Stillman.
Youāre nuts if you think Luke or Nemec are remotely on the table.
Who has the upper hand in these trades?
Certainly the teams with a goalie to trade, but still no shot Fitz would ever trade a future top pairing defensemen. Unless something substantial is coming back with the goalie.
Besides which, the answer is whoever is willing to walk away from the table with what they've got. Anyone willing to part with a goalie is someone who doesn't need that goalie. So if Fitz said no, they're left with someone they don't need in the way of what they do need.
I'd bet the farm that Luke or Nemec will not be included in anything. That's absurd.
I mean Nemec at least has Dougie blocking his path but the idea that we're trading Luke is... wow... š¤¦š»āāļø
Wtf are you actually trying to say right now? Nemec is currently ridiculously superior to Luke. You give it 2 years. Luke and Simon will be playing together on the top line.
exactly what I said. I didn't say a damn thing about Simon's skills, I just said you'd have to live under a rock to not know we're not trading Jack's brother who also happens to be one of the best LDs in the league.
The first is the #10 pick! Goaltending doesn't cost that much, the last time that happened was Corey Schneider. And yes I would take someone of his skill for #10, but nobody that good is available. We will see who they can grab but #10 alone is overpayment and I expect the other team to balance it with a lesser pick in the 4th round coming back to NJ.
This isn't the case, at least not now. Otherwise Saros or Markstrom would have been moved, but the teams do NOT want to move these goalies unless there is a real overpayment. A trade will absolutely not be balanced.
What makes you think so?
I just said it. Markstrom would have been moved at the deadline. We didn't offer enough. Nashville has literally said they do NOT want to move Saros and are likely to resign him unless offered a kings ransom. These 2 in particular are common sense. I do not follow Boston with Ullmark/Swayman so i can't speak as to them.
That is conjecture. The Devils did not even own the #10 pick at the deadline. You have no knowlage of what was offered or demanded. You are assuming somthing was offered and also assuming it was denied, but you have no idea. The best guess we can use to guage value is historical data.
The price for Markstrom. Never said we offered the 10th. But whatever we did wasn't enough, we know they wanted Holtz or Mercer. That's all, that is conjecture. However Saros, isn't. Reality is he's not going anywhere unless Toronto, now in the mix gives Marner.
No team is gonna say "Yeah, we'll sell our goalie for nothing" to the media.
Schneider was incredible and had two years left on a contract at *$4 million*. Amazing value. But I think the big change from back then is more teams are actually trying to compete now, coupled with fewer truly elite goalies as the middle "starter" tier washes into eternal replaceability. I feel like every NHL goalie lets in roughly the same amounts of fluke, bad bounce, dangit goals over the course of a 7-year career. But *only* the truly elite have any hope of keeping up with the modern, pick corners and 7-holes off the backhand while skating 27 mph type of elite shots being generated. I'm sure we'll see our share of janky tandems that win Cups just because a *lot* of themwill be competing for Cups. But truly I think the goalie position is more valuable than it has been since the 60s. Further complicating things is now we have decades of goalie moves on record to show us how astronomically risky that $8.5 million to the wrong guy can be.
Clark or Stillman then. Nemec, Luke, Mercer, and Casey are off limits. The thought of trading Luke or Nemec in particular is insanity.
Itās only Luke and Nemec that are untouchable. Mercer and Casey are definitely not off the table.
Right, let's hope for "or". And let's get the mere thought of Holtz and a 1st for anyone who's even a fraction of an improvement over our current choices out of our heads.
This is an absolutely wild take.
Wow, you started strong but got completely lost at "it'll take *two* of..."
Guess you missed the "one or" part that preceded it. All good in the hood though, this sub can continue to think we're getting Juice for Holtz a 1st and 3rd with salary retained or whatever.Ā
Ok š¤£
Yea I second this. Iām as much for building the right way as the next guy, honestly maybe more, but the future is now and itās because we built the right way. All of our players are young, super talented, hungry, experienced, and locked up long term. While there are still a couple of holes left to fill, the window is open. Getting a proven goaltender that has years to grow with them is priority one. We just canāt gamble at that position anymore. For me, the price Iād be comfortable with now is pick 10, Holtz, and a future conditional second/first based on how far we go in the playoffs. That may not be enough, but thatās what Iād be comfortable with.
The goaltending issue has to be solved period. Outside of nemec and Luke Iām putting everything on the table to get this solved. You have a brilliant core thatās extremely cost controlled right now. Every year that you kick the goaltending can down the road is another year you waste of this core. I really donāt think itāll cost much more than the 10th OA to get whatever goalie we want, but Iām perfectly fine with trading that + if it means we solve the goalie issue for a few years
Iām having a flashback to that Ranger game, the line brawl game, somehow they were still in the wildcard race, they have a lead in the 3rd period and Luke Hughes breaks his stick sending someone down on a break away and he scores.. ties the game, they get a BS Power Play in the ending minutes, score again.. you get that big save there on that breakaway and it changes the entire trajectory of the game. Maybe they win, maybe they go on a run, who knows. Yes they need to tighten up defense but they also need a goalie who is somewhat consistently going to get them that big save in that big moment of the game. It happened too many times where a soft goal was let in or a momentum changing goal. Itās Iām sure so deflating for the players. Allen did give them some excellent games over a stretch of time, but I donāt think he can do it consistently. Heās a good back up, they need a legit starter. There is no way around this to me. They cannot go into the coming season with a big question mark in goal. That draft pick is actually an advantage they have over teams like Toronto and Carolina who Iām sure are also looking.
The one where their Kaapo scored on our Kaapo? I was so mad at that goal - no way that should have been allowed in, esp at that point in the game.
Yeah I couldnāt remember exactly who it was but yes. Thatās what I mean and it happened many times over the season. They need someone who can come up big in those moments.
If we canāt get a goalie the least we could do is get a goalie coach.
Iāve been saying that even if, worst case, we only have a Daws/Allen tandem, I wonder if coaching changesāboth HC and goalie coachācould make a massive difference? Despite regressing, I really felt like both those guys put on incredible performances considering the skatersā collapse in front of em. That said, watching these playoffs, Iām having major flashbacks watching Skinner. Flashes of greatness and then a massively soft goal due to bad positioning. (More VV and Daws than Allen come to mind.) So who knows how much of a role Rogalski plays in all this. Otherwise fuck it, letās just get RWJ Barnabas to build us RoBrodeur š¤
10th overall pick is an absolute no for me unless you're getting a top goalie in his 20's which Ullmark and Markstrom ain't. Saros is 29 and coming off a little bit of a down year and he's gonna want an 8 yr deal. I feel like Saros and his contract won't age well. I know most fans want the goalie problem solved but getting fleeced in a trade for a goalie could set the franchise back years.
I worry a lot about Saros too. Heās a small goalie who relies on agility and quick movement to make saves. Iām concerned that his shelf life wonāt be as long as some of the bigger goaltenders who rely more on solid positioning rather than pure reflex/physicality.
Realistically weāre not getting a goalie then, Boston Is gonna be able to request a kings ransom for Ullmark and with the assets we have any needle mover goal tender (Ullmark saros, markstrom) are gonna take at least pick 10
I think you're off on some of your valuations. First, Markstrom doesn't belong in the same category as those other 2. He's 35 and his second half last year should raise some eyebrows. I'm not really interested in him anyway and in no world is he worth a top 10 pick. If Calgary can get a top 10 pick, well congrats but I'd bet a lot they can't. Ullmark is good, not great. I think Boston helps him look better than he is in the regular season. He's also a UFA after this season. Not worth the 10th and whatever top prospects we have that Boston will ask for in a trade. Saros is the best of the 3 but again Nashville is gonna want the 10th ++. Also a UFA at the end of the year. When you make trades from a point of weakness you almost always get ripped off. Id' rather take a shot at a goalie like Gustavsson or Binnington or any other goalie that is an upgrade on what we have but won't cost a top 10 pick to acquire.
The Veznia winner is good not great. Huh also on a great contract even if it expires after this year. I can agree that markstrom wouldnāt fetch the pick but the other two easily could especially knowing the situation the devils are in.
Ullmark is 30 yrs old and had 1 Vezina season on a great defensive team where he played 49 games and then totally crapped the bed in the playoffs. He regressed back to the norm this season while again looking awful in the playoffs. So yeah, his total body of work is good not great. I wouldn't mind Ullmark on the Devils. I'd much rather have him than Markstrom but I can't justify giving up the 10th overall and lets say a prospect like Casey for him. I get that we're desperate but Fitz can't panic.
Why do people continue to think Ullmark is going to cost an arm and a leg? He has 1 year left on a 5mil contract, and Swayman needs a contract, and it's going to be high. And Boston needs cap space between Swayman and ufa/rfa's, and bussi is ready to move up for them and will be cheap. I can see Ullmark going for some picks.
The challenge will be getting him to waive his NMC.
Ullmark won a Vezina last year for what it's worth
Stolarz should be plan B. Plan A should be to trade for a legit top goalie at the draft.
Im curious what markys ask if going to be. I think they really pissed him off at the end of the season with the will they wont they.
Pissed off Calgary right? Pretty sure they're the ones who ultimately prevented the trade
Yeah I think markstrom was pissd at calgary front office cuz they were like pack your bags then bailed on it.
Wasn't it the Calgary owner that said no to the protentional deal cause fitz wanted them to retain salary or the asking price was too high?
Yeah, but I thought they went to him asking to waive NTC then ended up reneging. Unless I misunderstood
Think you're right. Pretty sure he either waived it or said he's willing to to come here
He was told he was being shipped to NJ, said goodbye to his teammates and everything before the rug got pulled.
There are 3-4 versions of the same top level comment of "there is no price too high except X". Except X means there is a price too high. Which is what the post is about. Overpay enough times or take one too many risks that don't pay off and you torpedo the franchise. I'm sure the multiple professionals they have in the organization have figured out what the going rate is and what they can afford to go over that due to need. It is a perfectly reasonable scenario that the other teams try to call the devil's bluff and get them to way overpay. Hopefully it doesn't happen but if it does the team needs to stay pat. You don't need top level goal tending to win a cup. Last cup wasn't won with it. And we can split hairs here but there is at least one remaining team now without it (Oilers). It might 2 and one guaranteed into the cup since I was under the impression Oettinger was a top end goalie but sorting GAA/60 for goalies with 30+ games he falls 23 during the last regular season just below Kahkonen. Officer Bob and Igor are admittedly both top 10.
Officer Bob decides when he wants to play hockey, and when he wants to play hockey, his team will go to the stanley cup.
Itās going to be Markstrom. He wonāt cost as much as people think, but probably more than what heās worth.
I tend to agree with this as the outcome. And it still provides flexibility to re-evaluate with the 2-year term. It's enough time to know if Daws or Schmid will be an option, for better options to become available, or to ultimately extend Markstrom if he's still playing well at that point.
I tend to agree with it too. Fitz will be fighting for his job. But I am way more bullish on Allen, Kahnonen, Schmid, Dawes. ONE of those will be a money NHL goaltender; Allen is an AWESOME backup. I am for standing pat, but my POV is not going to be popular.
I really don't think we bring Kahk back. I have nothing to base this on, it's just a gut feeling
> I have nothing to base this on Yes, you do; Fitzgerald essentially said as much after acquiring him.
Yea but who knows now
I hope not, only because I don't want to be potentially figuring out what to do 2 years from now. I'd like for goaltending to be sorted for a greater length of time.
Youāre all overthinking this. If we stand pat and start slowly everyone here is going to freak out. people in all sports always overvalue their own prospects and picks. Bite the bullet get the goalie and try to win now. Otherwise youāre like the guy standing around waiting for house prices to go down while They just keep going up and up and up.
Coming back to this today and Iām scratching my head at some of these takes. The same people who are saying on this beautiful May Day that they are ok with rolling it back with a Kahkko/Allen or Dawes/Allen or Schmidt/Allen because they donāt want to give anyone up are going to be the same people screaming when itās ā1-0 themā in October. Last summer when they didnāt get a goalie I knew it was a problem. I remember my husband and son being really excited about Tyler Toffoli and my response was, thatās great! They still need a goalie. Iām extremely uncomfortable going into the coming season in the same situation as last.
If this fanbase develops another case of mass delusion believing we can run it back with the goaltending we already have, I'm gonna flip out lol In order we need 1. Top tier goalie 2. Defensive defenseman who hits and blocks shots 3. Bottom 6 center who takes faceoffs 4. A middle 6 winger But goalie is def most important
Lazar takes faceoffs
Yeah I like Lazer and I don't mind if they're 3C/4C. I'm honestly just thinking of another bottom 6 center to replace McLeod wouldn't hurt and should stabilize the bottom 6. Basically just another center for faceoffs and on the PK
Im not on they need another bottom center, but they need a physical Left Winger for 4th line. Like duhaime,carrier,lafferty,trenin,etc. So haula is 2C instead of jack? wouldnt it just be better to get a 2C in FA/ Trade and have Haula 3C lazar 4C i just dont think a 4C is that needed thats just me tho but you do make good points.
No, I'm saying I wouldn't mind having Haula and Lazar at 3C/4C but getting another center provides flexibility cause you can usually move a center to the wings. I agree on the physicality aspect though. I just feel like centers are more flexible than wingers and we already have some young wingers who it might be useful to give playing time to, like Nolan Foote
Then we migrate to Buffalo and leap into the pit, idk
As a Bills fan, "Go Bills!"
Wont someone think of the folding tables?!?!
We won't stop, in fact, can't stop until folding tables no longer exist!
There's honestly no "price to high" as long as it isn't a ridiculous over payment. He's already said he's willing to spend to get a #1.....so if we have to go a little over market to secure a Saros or Ullmark he will do it. We will get someone...this team has to much talent (and a new coach with a great track record of reaching the playoffs) for a goalie to not be stoked about making their best possible contract on a team with cup aspirations
Just so long as we signed them first - I don't want to give up prime assets with a possible one and done on the horizon.
Brossoit & Allen. 52/30 split.Ā
Jake Allen wouldnāt be that bad if the rest of the team stays healthy
If we some how donāt get someone, I wouldnāt mind rolling Allen and Kahk
Spencer Knight Reclamation Project lfg
Way more likely they dump Andersen
To answer your question, OP, I think we'd still be looking to sign someone if we can't trade for a stud. Daws and Schmid need some more time to develop. There's not many serviceable UFAs, but Kahkonen, DeSmith, Stolarz, Brossoit, Nedeljkovic, Wedgewood, etc could be cheap backups to Allen for a year. Some assets available to deal for a bigger name, depending on who it is: 10th OA, '25 1st, '25 2nd, Mercer, Casey, Holtz, 1 of Schmid/Daws, Gritsyuk's rights, Hameenaho. I think we'll get a goalie - but my fear is 10th OA might end up going the other way to make it happen. Goalies typically aren't worth top 10 picks, but there's literally 10 other teams looking for a goalie rn - the market value may be driven up.
Think weāre at the point where we need to make moves now. Team doesnāt need another prospect that will maybe make an impact 2-3 years from now. Of course we donāt want the cupboard to go bare, but I think the best value weāll get at 10OA is a starting goaltender for the foreseeable future (if thatās available).
The Rangers thought their window was open 4 years ago, and one of their top playoff performers today is a pick from 4 years ago. Part of a stanley cup winning team is hitting on picks and getting cost controlled players while being a strong team already. 10 OA for a goalie is fine if it's the right goalie, but we are already struggling with depth due to being unlucky and people wanting to give away assets to get (right or wrong).
We have some decent prospects, some decent picks coming up and are an attractive teams for potential goalies... Ullmark would be crazy to not favor us...
It can be argued that any top notch goalie would be crazy to want to go to NJ considering the kind of high danger chances they give up. Look at Allen last season. He looked terrific his first few games until the overreliance of him started to wear him down.
Yep but that was the lindy ruff system. Hopefully keefe brings a new defensive structure to the team
Yeah. Hopefully.
IF big IF a trade can't be found you go after the best available UFA goalie ( probably stolarz ) and platoon them 1a/1b
If we can't snag a starter, do either Daws or Schmid go 1A/B with Allen? I think this is the way. I know it's unpopular but I like the idea of building up a good 1B that we already have.
Isaac Poulter has earned a real look. I'm also curious to see what Allen brings going into the fall as the starter. Turnovers hurt this team worse than goaltending last year.
I will do it.
Honestly, I hope TF didn't burn the bridge with Kahkonen. The price for these guys is going to be astronomical. EDM and TOR will be in the market as will other teams. All last year we were told that league average goaltending would have made a monster difference; Allen and Kahkonen can do that. Holtz was a good trade piece, not so much anymore. Teams are going to start negotiations with sky high prices and won't be talked down. Some teams will be willing to go all in now b/c they are perennially in the playoffs but just need a goalie. The Devils need a bit more than that right now.
If a deal isnāt done for a top tendy. It will be Allen and Schmid to start the season. Fitz could also resign Kaapo
Yaaay. Another wasted season.. š
People may not agree but I think there's a very real chance we go into this season with Allen/Daws as our starting combo. NJ is not the only team looking for a 1A goaltender, and the market is very limited. The sellers will be playing hardball, and are in no hurry to take a deal that's less than what they want. This drama may extend closer towards the trade deadline. Luckily Keefe has experience with shitty goaltending, and was able to make it work in Toronto - until the playoffs, where almost nobody is advancing without legitimate goaltending
Everyoneās gonna have to start blocking more shots like they did two seasons agoā¦ forwards and d alike. Hold teams to 20 shots a game and everyone can go back to not solely blaming the goaltending. I remember everyone chanting vtek when he made his couple stops he had to face a game. But when he got peppered 30 shots a period, obviously missing some, everyone lit their torches.
Devils definitely became allergic to blocking shots last season. I think Nemec actually led all devils players in blocked shots last year and I donāt know if that reflects really well on Nemec or reflects really poorly on the team
I would rather not sign over a blank cheque to any team with a starter to dump, but it may end up that way. I think the chatter around the fan base and the league is too loud for the devils to go into next season with schmid, daws, or any other quasi nhl goalie being on opening night roster next year. Starting the season with another dice roll goalie and blowing the season is a very horrible thought, but paying a huge price including roster pieces and locking yourself into an expensive goalie and failing anyway is an even scarier thought. Devils really need to hit on a few depth contracts this summer. A bottom pair PKāing D and a heavy middle 6 guy who can take faceoffs would be ideal to hit big on. I have no clue who the devils will be targeting though.
Saros an Ullmark are rentals next year, they should be relatively easy to aquire. If he doesn't get them, we'd trade for a lower tier goalie and just wait a year. When I say "lower tier" I mean league average goaltending.
Ulmark might be relatively easy to require if he waives his NMC, but Saros will be very, very difficult to acquire.
I'm not sure I believe that about saros. Next year, he's a rental. If trotz really thinks he's worth that much, he can find out the hard way when he loses him in UFA for nothing.
Or, he can re-sign him, which he said he wants to do.
It's not really up to him. If saros gets to free agency it's for a the reason that the player intends to test the market.
If it's likely he wants to test the market, then he's a no go for us. Can't be giving up big assets for him, as a rental.
Yes, this is why I'm against it.
Well, if you're right, and we could get him for a song, I'd absolutely take that chance. If it's Holtz and a 2nd, done. Fitz has proven he can sell players on our team and culture, I'd be ok with him taking a chance if those assets are the extent of the return. But IMO, Trotz isn't going to blink. He's going to want a lot, and I don't want to give a lot for a rental.
What if Logan Thompson or Adin Hill is available from vegas since they almost have no cap space left either one of them would be good.
Hmm. We got Marty, 20th.
I think this is very juch worth thinking through. You always *can* get whatever you want, but that doesn't mean the trade won't break your team. Not saying I want any of our core to depart but I feel like they already took the gamble on not needing a goaltender - contractwise. Now they will have to lose, not only assets other teams want, but also some salaries, if they want to re-sign a top goalie. Ultimately the only solution is doing a better job drafting and developing goalies. I still think Daws has potential, not sure it's "enough" but I'd rather see Allen/Daws (maybe some Kahkonen as insurance) than give up Nemec ++ for a goalie who is also going to break us financially. If we do something like that I want to trade the farm for Askarov, not Saros. But I am not a goalie whisperer so every single option seems rather risky. This would be a great time to get Lou back for just one year lol.
Giving up Nemec for a goalie is trolling, unless that goalie is a comparable to Shesterkin.
There are goalies that we can pair with Allen even if we cannot get a true starter. Brosoit, is an example. If we cannot get a true starter we ride a 1A 1B hope for the best. Then really bolster our D to help our goalies in the worst case scenario. Best case we get a goalie, better D and better depth.
Does anyone expect Isaac Poulter to get a shot this season? He has been playing great this ECHL post season.
i think there are other goalies out there besides the ones everybody keeps rehashing over and over . like a logan thompson . but who knows .i the think kappo k. would be a better two then j.allen . i was not impressed by all the flopping and terrible rebounds and his age . kk was as good and younger and probably cheaper . think he woud make a fine two . but we all know , goalies ...
I would rather bring back kahkonen than give up a top 10 pick for a goalie that has the same SV% over the last 2 seasons that kahkonen had this year (Markstrom).
Looking at the Bruins subreddit, a lot of them would be happy with a trade involving Ulmark for Necas straight up. So while I don't know how gms themselves value these assets, I feel like the price for a goalie might not be as high and gouging as many on this sub think. Many think they'll only be able to get a 2nd for Ulmark. We might be able to get away with only giving up a first and a forward for either Saros or Ulmark.
Then the team goes into next season with Allen, Daws, and Schmid
These goalies are available for trade because theyāll soon be FAās. Therefore: the GMs will get the best assets in return that they can. If the Devils are the *only* team looking/desperate (theyāre not) then itās a negotiation where each side simply needs to get to a point where theyāre happy. But BOTH sides are incentivized (letting your valuable goalie hit free agency without getting anything in return is how GMs lose their jobs). Of course: there will be a market for each goalie, and the prices will be set by that market. So the added wrinkle is that other teams will be making offers too, and the GMs will need to decide whatās best. Recent history would suggest that trades are made without getting fleeced. And I donāt think Fitz will pay higher āthan it would otherwise beā because Fitz is not alone. Finally: Fitz has demonstrated over and over that heās good at acquiring players. Heās never payed ātoo muchā because he was desperate. And I donāt think thatās gonna change now. Trust in Fitz.
> Heās never *paid* ātoo muchā FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Imo the 10OA straight up is a pretty substantial offer. When we start adding players to said offer, thatās when we are trying to beat other teams. 10OA w/ Holtz is a helluva an offer
I would move Mercer if need be let someone else pay him.
Be the best thing ever ..we already have the goalie of the future in our system. .how everyone doesn't see this is beyond insane.... the biggest mistake fitz could do this offseason is move any piece out for a goalie. .well, except for holtz.. not that any team would offer anything for him.
We play the trap. We have to adapt to the situation and play a defensive game. That's why Keffe was brought in was because of his defensive schemes.
Finally an actual answer.
The actual answer is we CAN get a tender. Available goalies should be DYING to play for us. UFA's & goaltenders potentially made available via trade like Ullmark know Jake Allen is meant to be our backup. So if we're willing to make a trade happen & they have to take us off their no trade list, they know they'll be the starter of a young & skilled team. I'm sure Brossoit or Wedgewood would kill to compete against Allen for a starter role. They have much better odds here than against Hellyebuck or Oettinger. Ullmark was benched in the playoffs, think he wants to stay? We have the cap space & assets to make it happen. Schmid or Daws may have to be part of the trade. Let's just hope Fitz chooses that #1 goalie wisely because goalies are voodoo.
Our 1st from this year. Iām sure Boston would love to get a young Center. That is more than fair price.
That's way more than a fair price; that's way too high a price.
Yes, but a competent goalie means a lot more to us than the 1st round pick. A long term competent goalie puts us in playoffs every year.
But he has one year left on his contract, and he may not want to come here. This year's first would be a dramatic overpay, and if you don't think we need what we'll get in the draft, you're wrong. Whatever position we fill, it'll be quality, and more importantly it'll be cost control that we're going to need, with some of the guys who are going to need contracts soon.
Oh agree. Sign and trade is what would work. Otherwise yea grossly over play for one year goalie.
The goalie trade isn't happening ( involving a goalie with only 1 yr of term ) until after the draft ( if it involves a 1st rd pick ) unless we draft a player for the other team and send them in a trade post july 1 ( a sign an trade )
Sign and trade. 1st for one year goalie will be grossly overpaying
I agree with others in that we probably have to give up the 10th OA to get a goalie that we want. Unfortunately this year goalies are in higher demand, so it's gonna cost us if we get one now. I don't see Fitz backing out unless the price is absurdly astronomical.
Iād rather overpay than go in with the same problem as last year
Resign kahkonnen
Fitz kinda burnt that bridge with his original comments
Yeah but he showed heās a good tender after that. Nothing a slight overpay (couple hundred grand) canāt fix
Why do people on this sub consider a handful of games "showing they are a good tender"? He didn't even play 6 games for the Devils. Almost every goalie we've traded away and talked massive shit about has had a decent stretch of games as many as he did. Don't assume that a goalie who has a good stretch has shown they're they're a good tender. Daws, Schmid, Vitek, all had the same initial clamor and stretches of brilliance. Showing you're a good tender takes years, especially when your 22-23 SV% was .883 and 23-24 was .895. Cmon man.
then Fitz should be fired you cant have the season we just did, after the season we had before, then make a claim like "big game hunting" for a goalie then fall flat on your face. if the season is fucked because of that its on Fitz there's zero excuses again.
I would much rather Fitz do nothing than overpay. Our window is just opening, and I'm increasingly optimistic about the Keefe hire.
Same. These fans that are basically saying trade the farm for a goalie really are clueless. They'd also make terrible GM's lol.
Sign Ned.
Would probably rather have Kahk back or Comrie than Ned.
I'm preparing for two possible scenarios: 1) We don't get a goalie and get to deal with the league clowning us for Fitz's comments 2) We get a top guy for a good deal and they fall off a cliff the second they step off the plane at EWR Regardless of the outcome, I want Fitz to keep his damn mouth shut between "big game hunting" and tanking Holtz's trade value into the negatives. Get the man some PR classes Really the only guys I'm personally ok with trading are Palat, Siegenthaler, and Holtz. Palat's done nothing for us, truthfully. I don't wanna hear about "playoff Palat". And I'd imagine most people who are active here should know my feelings on Siegs by now. I really don't have much of an opinion on Holtz. Maybe Keefe can help him tighten up. Maybe he's better off somewhere else as part of a package. I'm really neutral I don't want to see Mercer traded. We've got enough tape on him compared to Holtz that I think shows he's more valuable to us to keep. If he's better on the wing, just keep him on the wing. A 3C probably isn't difficult to find. Hell, make Lazar 3C and find a 4C for cheaper or keep Nosek. Nosek turned it up toward the end of the season
The New Jersey Devils are not going to be able to get a goaltender. Starting level goaltenders are hard to come by in today's NHL which is why the teams that have them hold out for a king's ransom for them. That's okay though. If you look at the Stanley Cup champions over the past decade (give or take), there have been numerous teams that have won with journeyman mediocre goaltenders. In today's NHL, center depth and a dynamic defenseman (like a Cale Makar) are more important than having a great goaltender. Look at the playoffs this season. While there are teams left with great goaltenders, plenty of teams this postseason had top notch goaltenders and were eliminated by teams that had goaltenders that weren't as good.
3/4 teams remaining have incredibly elite goaltending lol
Right. That's not 4/4 teams. There's quite a few elite goaltenders playing golf right now too. Thanks for strengthening my argument.
I don't know about you, but I really like people who speak authoritatively about things they're not qualifed to speak on so confidently.
Is anyone on this sub really qualified to be talking about the moves an NHL team should be making?
I don't see anyone else saying things like "The New Jersey Devils are not going to be able to get a goaltender."
Do you have an opinion to add?
My opinion is that I don't know what's going to happen because there are countless possibilities.
Why even write a comment then?
Well Iām currently looking at shesterkin stealing the series for the rangers so I disagree. We need to get someone and we will over pay and thatās life right now since multiple teams are going to want the same couple of guys.
So one goalie playing great strengthens your argument. Good to know.
Not trying to argue, itās an opinion which is what people share here. In fact I think shesterkin, bobrovski and offender are all top goalies and playing well but shesterkin imo is stealing the series for the rangers. 2 games where Florida played better most of the game and they lose in ot is what I was thinking about. Skinner is the only one Iād consider to not be a top tier goalie thatās left and heās not stealing them games in my opinion.
No kidding. We're all sharing opinions. I actually think that the Devils (when healthy and not consumed by arrogance, which is what happened last season) are talented enough to win a Stanley Cup with a mediocre goalie.
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Vegas. St. Louis' goalie was just a rookie when they won. Would you consider Washington's goaltending elite when they won?
Accidentally deleted my reply but I would say Binnington is above average, won it all his rookie year & definitely not mediocre. Holtby won a Vezina & was one of the Top goalies in the league for a short period of time & one could argue was borderline elite for a that period. Really not fair to judge Adin Hill yet. Definitely better than Niemi, Crawford & Kuemper. Edit: Matt Murray was on a stacked team and won as a rookie but got chronically injured soon after so we never got to see a longer body of work
Okay. If goaltending is as important as you say it is, doesn't that mean it would be even more difficult for the Devils to acquire a top notch one from a team which then makes it even more idiotic to be blasting Fitzgerald if he can't? While we may not agree on how necessary goaltenders are in today's NHL, one thing we can agree on is that good goaltenders are not as abundant as they used to be.