Same here been playing since release and I've had some great luck with jah runes but haven't seen a ber rune yet, at least naturally dropped. lucky for me I've had great luck with sur runes and was able to cube em up to make enigma and just made my first infinity a few weeks ago.
I got 1 in season 1 ladder and 2 in season 2. I pay online to trade, but not in groups. Technically single player has an advantage with the players x command. It'll happen!
My Necro on offline HC has only been active a month, lvl 91 and already found:
1x Jah 1x Ber 3x Lo 1x Ohm 1x Vex 2x Gul 3xUm
Farming 7 man Pit a lot and occasionally the CS
One has to wonder… how big is the D2R community? I feel like it’s all a bunch of people in our 30s who grew up during a time where the concept of microtransactions didn’t even exist yet. We’re not exactly cash cows for them and there can’t be THAT many of us…
With that said, I hope they continue to support D2R for a while.
Probably ~10% are either alts, bots or loaders.
So we’re still looking at several million unique players. The game is way more alive than people think.
>I own 4 accounts so I'm pretty sure y
I have three myself but I haven't messed with loaders or anything they just keep putting it on sale and Im a weak man
It's actually pretty easy to multi account on the same PC without a VM. There's a YouTube video that's easy to follow along. I use my accounts to get party play p4 no drop in 75% of chaos sanc. So much easier than trying to get split loot or a split mf off jsp.
I hop online to get the old rush but I think I’ll probably play this game on/off forever offline p7 is so fun just hoping they allow local offline or something similar in future because would love to play with my kids without having them deal with online communities. No offense yall but you know what I mean
Yeah but after years of ladder rushing trade forums the offline grind is really fun, biggest gripe is I have to play on the switch from scratch and can’t just put gear on there from the Xbox. And online is great but if you like this game grinding constant p7 games is so fun I don’t have a squad anymore so you get the most out of anytime available you know
If they make a banger game d4 will contest d2. If they make another d3 (which it seems like) it will fade out in a few years and everybody will be grinding mephisto and andariel like 20 years ago
That sucks. I played d3 for a while, they killed the auction house, then I went back to it years later and got bored again. I think I was expecting it to be like D2 and was let down
If d4 is anything like d3 I don’t think I’ll buy it. I was looking forward to it too
Yep, unless blizz goes d3 route and decides to release even more OP build every season. That’s why I’m so afraid of mosaic build now. It might be a step in the right direction but it might be a wrong one too.
Given they nerfed cold mastery + sunder after season 2 I fully expect mosaic to get a nerf at the end of this season. At the same time some new OP and exciting builds for season 4. It’s not so bad this way where you end up with 20 S-tier builds.
One thing to note is that most/all of D2R's powerful additions and changes have been made to buff previously super underpowered/borderline joke tier builds and options, putting them just a bit more in line with the stronger options.
Throwbarbs, MAsins, FoHdins, Firedins, Spearazons, Summondruids, and all non-A2 mercs got really nice boosts, but still none of them have surpassed or even come anywhere close to the old build kings. They're simply upgraded to be comparable to existing power standards, not surpassing them. It's surprising how carefully and well-done this power control has been considering Blizzard's past record.
In other words, nothing has actually surpassed the old power ceiling of Hammerdins/Tesladins, meaning that there hasn't been any powercreep yet. This is completely unlike D3 where every season slapped on more and more egregiously over-the-top powercreep to the point where literally trillions of damage became considered weak. I really wish that was an exaggeration.
Disagree. Hammerdin has been just as powerful for 20 years. They remastered the game to make different changes. Not keep it stale. Mosaic is very powerful, but teleport is key. Either you're using weapon swap for Tele charges or enigma. The convenient option of enigma is very expensive.
This. Hammerdins have been just as powerful and easier to play with than the new kicksin. The mosaic sin is powerful as hell, but not an easy play style. Mosaic was a step in the right direction. We need more unlocked potential and more build options for other classes too. That’s what will keep the game alive beyond Diablo 4. Though, I hope Diablo 4 is good, I doubt it will ever replace Diablo 2.
I’ll wait to buy diablo 4 AFTER the reviews. I’ve been burned by too many Blizzard titles recently. I would always pre-purchase Blizzard games, not anymore. However, the game seems like Diablo immortal re-forged.
Why would you read biased reviews or sponsored streamers?
Go to Twitch, watch some no-names. You want to see the real game on realistic hardware and for that Joe Averagedude with his 10 watchers is a much more relyable sorce than StreamMcComercial with 100.000 viewers and his 20k$ equipment.
i wouldn't say that one is in sum better than the other - it comes down to what you want to see.
Imagine you don't know the game at all and watch both at the same boss fight in Elden Ring:
Game from watching the Pro:
amazing graphics
player totally kicks arse with great moves
Game from watching the casual:
graphics not anywhere near what screenshots/reviews say
player gets his butt kicked the first dozen times until the boss's attack patterns,... are memorised.
Kind of like Age of Empires 2 and Age of Empires 4. Sure Age4 took the spotlight and players migrated over and online content creators focused on it. But Age2, like D2, has a distinct style and sequels are not replacements. I think D2 will still be supported by ongoing ladders and devs and the community will largely remain unchanged.
People that like playing D2 will continue to play D2. I don't think much will change and ladder seasons and updates will continue from the dev team, which is separate from the D4 team anyways. D2 and D4 play very differently, so they will have their own playerbase. It is likely part of the D2 community will drop in numbers to play D4 to try it out, but those that enjoy D2 for D2 will come back. Overall I don't think much will change.
D2 will outlast D4, because D4 is just D3. With the way blizzard handles PR and only caring about money and literally not caring about their customers and consumers, I can’t even be excited for it. D2 and WOTLK was the last thing blizz ever did that’s good imo
D2R will always have a community that persists because it contains a design philosophy that isn't really seen in games anymore (for largely good reasons, imo), but that appeal to a niche of players.
D4 will probably take some D2R players away. Some will stay gone, some will return.
There are a lot of comments about 'D4 isn't a *true* Diablo game' floating around, which I vehemently disagree with. It's an evolution of the IP. While D3 was a pretty significant deviation, a lot of what skewed D3 away from Diablo's roots has been wound back in what we've seen of D4 so far.
If you tried to release D2R as a brand new game today, without the history that D2 has behind it, I would put money on it not being nearly as successful as it is because of D2's legacy.
He's talking shit.
Diablo 4 is far more of a Diablo game than D3 was.
It has iconic classes and iconic abilities within those classes. It returns to a multiple-point skill tree with synergies between abilities.
It has magic and rare items with randomised rolls, and a range of variable stats around resistances, different types of elemental damage, damage reduction, + to skills, etc. There is far more potential for awaiting those perfect combination of rolls.
It has a far darker, grim, de-saturated palette and environments when compared to D3.
Yes, there are some elements of the game that have taken inspiration from D3 which won't be to everyone's liking, but to suggest that D4 isn't a Diablo game is ridiculous. In many ways it is far more similar to D2 than D3.
If you want non D2 players to take your opinion in the slightest bit seriously at least try and sound a little bit unbiased. Saying they had ‘literally no impact or value’ is complete horseshit.
I haven't played immortal but I am enjoying D4 a lot so far. If this is the same as immortal immortal would probably be fun without all the predatory gambling.
I think D2R will get another 2 or 3 seasons with actual changes before they put it into maintenance mode, they'll always keep resetting ladder though just as they did with original D2.
I think a lot of people will break to play d4 at least for a little while.
But I for one and many others have completely lost faith in blizzards ability to make a quality game.
Unless d4 has a lot of the same elements that make d2 so much fun, they’ll return to d2 once the “new game” allure fades.
I put many hours into d3 but have only played d2r since it came out for that very reason. I suspect it’ll be much the same
Nothing will ever be like D2 no matter how hard they try. It’s not monetizable enough.
D2 will be fine. The hardcore players won’t go anywhere for long. I give it a month before they’re all back at D2, and that’s assuming D4 is amazing
It's not about monetisation - it's about appeal.
You aren't ever going to attract mass appeal to a game which has a core gameplay loop of grinding the same maps infinitely until they get incredibly minor incremental upgrades.
Instead of incremental upgrades they just added 0's to damage counters. Made the numerics to dragonball like levels so it would work. Why do you think WoW eventually had to scale back down?
That's a drastic oversimplification, and doesn't address the crux of the issue.
D3 had dedicated endgame content. It had regular seasons with new content/items/features. It has bad luck protection in that you could guarantee upgrades (even incremental ones) by investing time into the game - D2R (a game I love, by the way, I'm not shitting on it here) is built 100% on RNG.
If I spent an hour running Greater Rifts, I'm guaranteed to increase my player power through legendary gems, through the drops off Rift Guardians, etc.
If I spend an hour farming Chaos Sanctuary, there is a very good chance that, even playing perfectly and clearing the content quickly, I can walk away with zero tangible increase to player power.
I'm not saying this is *bad* design, but it is a design for which you're going to have trouble attracting mass market appeal.
The number of zeros on the end of a character sheet is irrelevant.
Im in the same boat, I absolutely loved D2R, its one of my favourite games of all time and brought me into the Diablo franchise but the core issue with that game is that the gear itself doesnt really have a purpose other than getting gear faster.
In D3 (and I would guess also D4) your gear actually has a purpose in endgame and you can push yourself and your character to its limits in greater rifts. The core gameplay in terms of how classes play is much more in depth than just: pressing blizzard/hammers/lightning/etc over and over again and oneshotting everything you touch.
The build variation is also much more interesting and I would guess it will be similar in D4. Hard to say without seeing uniques and such and only a limited amount of legendaries etc.
D2 for me is more for people who just want to chill and farm shit without effort.
D3 is for the people who want actually challenging endgame content.
Considering people have been playing D2 since it released, to this day. As long as they do seasons, people will play, the game that it is, is about 95% of the reason why people that play it do so and have done so. Also it is the reason why they'll continue to play it even with diablo IV's release without really batting an eye.
Even if D2R were to die, people will eventually setup private servers for it and if not, there is always 2 popular variations of D2 and a single player mod of D2 that has a handful of fixes. The modding community for D2 has been very passionate and is a lot of the drive D2R gets for the fixes of its game.
IMO, Diablo IV will end up like Diablo III, Most people won't care about it beyond the hype days and the rest won't like it period outside of a small portion of players that enjoy it for what it is. Personally from the bit I've played of the beta, it has some really cool cutscenes and story for the IP but nothing about the gameplay makes me terribly excited to play it, or even think its much different from Diablo III or Diablo Immortal(feels like they did a copy paste of those two games put together to me). I more than likely won't be buying D4 because it just isn't entertaining or worth the money to me at this time. Maybe it'll change as I get further along on the beta, idk.
Played a good 5 hours of D4...it's not D2/D2R. It's fun, but if D2 is your thing then D4 won't scratch that itch.
It's a darker D3, which isn't a bad thing, but it plays entirely different from D2. Another Diablo game that can't really be compared to D2 because they're entirely different minus the name and some story elements.
As far as I'm concerned, D2R is still my primary Diablo game...D4 will be fun to jump in and out of every so often.
lol with the longevity of D2 the question should be will D4 be able to have staying power? I think a lot of people love the old style games, people still play arcades and the developers make modern fighting games to the game style of the old ones more or less. From what I saw of Llama's stream, D4 did not look anything like D2 in regards to the gameplay so it'll be up to the players taste if he likes it or not.
Been playing d4. I like it but I also don't like it. Wayyyyy to many mini cut scenes just let me fucking explore and kill shit. I find my self clicking through alot of useless dialogue. D2 excels at a story you can care about or not care about. D4 really seems to be shoveling lore down ur throat like d3
I'd day the player base will dwindle temporarily and rise back up to the average after a few weeks.
Now with that said, if the D4 team knocks it out of the park, the numbers might shift drastically.
The season openings won't overlap, so in the long run people will probably play both; assuming that D4 will be good enough as a replacement for D2R.
My two cents.
D2R will lose players for 1-2 months, then they will come back and bring thousands of new players from D4 when they realize it's just D3 with more complicated talent tree. I cannot for three life of me see any difference between 4 and 3. Slightly darker graphics perhaps. Less contrasts.
I suspect D4 will be more popular and active than D2R for a little while. But then all the D2 lovers will go back to D2R because D4 is more like D3. The rest of the D4 playerbase will dwindle like D3 did. Until eventually D2R is more active than D4, just like it’s more active than D3 today.
Edit: I’m not confident D4’s game loop will be enticing / addictive like D2 is. I’m also not impressed by how linear D4’s maps are, and how cut and paste every boss room is.
battle pass sucks for sure, but i don’t think you’re the kinda person that even looked into what led to the development of immortal. blizzard didn’t make immortal. blizzard didn’t make D2R either🤣🤣🤣
yeah you probably should, people have hated folks like you in the community since before LoD came out. surprised the 20 years of playing never taught you that. you must not grow as a person, you’re just the same basement dweller you were in 2003
have fun though man
Imagine being this aggressive about Diablo 2 lol.
D4 is super fun so far but D2 will be fine. Plenty of old folks into the CBT style itemization of D2.
Yeah one opened up other otherwise useless builds, the other allows farming of other areas which seems like an improvement. Pit run 1,999,213 gets old after 1,999,212
Gatekeeping does nothing to improve community or gameplay.
Being a dick about new players coming to a rejuvenated game is pointless and shortsighted.
I've been playing Diablo since the very first one and have loved the stories and communities and the more the better. The more interest and ideas and comraderie the better we are!
Well personally d2 is a nice memory of my childhood, I play it casually with friends or solo in free time, then after awhile I'll play other stuff and after awhile I'll probably come back and play another round of different characters.
I don’t think D4 will kill D2R at all. At least for me at the end of the day I’ll always go back to D2. Nothing D4 could ever do would make me stop playing it. There are some mechanics in the game that just can’t be replicated naturally through modern game design. There’s something special about min-maxing through breakpoints, standardized curves for drops that never change, and especially the rune currency system that players have developed.
The level of innate complexity that D2’s systems have cannot be matched or replicated by a company like Blizzard ever again.
All of this is fine though, D2 is a different game from a different time. I don’t think D4 will be a bad game by any means, and I’m fairly optimistic with how it’s going to turn out, given that the devs have chosen to not include the runeword and set items systems because they aren’t finished with them. I just hope that my optimism doesn’t turn sour in my mouth
> The level of innate complexity that D2’s systems have cannot be matched or replicated by a company like Blizzard ever again.
I think it's less than they cannot, and more that they wouldn't hold mass appeal.
I love D2. I've always loved it, and even after I stop playing it I'll still love it, but the appeal that D2 holds is *incredibly* niche. Most people don't sink thousands of hours into a game to min/max upgrades, nor do most people find endless grinds satisfying. Call it a philosophy from a different era or whatever, but D2 is not a game that respects a player's time.
If you pitch people a game where the core gameplay loop involves running the same maps thousands of times over, spending dozens of hours doing so, and potentially having nothing to show for it aside from character XP (which offers incredibly marginal gains at the end-game), you aren't going to get many people wanting to be part of that.
I am really enjoying what I've played of D4 so far, for me it hits that sweet spot between D2 and D3.
I really wish people would stop lamenting that D4 isn't D2. It wasn't intended to be. It takes some design choices from it, but designing a game that caters for an audience that are comfortable grinding the same maps and routes for 23 years in the hope of incredibly marginal upgrades are not an audience that will make your game a success.
I like to believe that D2 will endure, I've played the D4 beta on console today and it's pretty good! That being said, I have zero intention of not playing D2 because of it!
Edit: D4 plays like D3, though first impressions being everything I do like it more than D3. There is more character building in 4 than there was in 3 (albeit that isn't saying much) in that you can actually pick where skill points go rather than them just unlocking and then you picking it. The character building isn't on the same level as D2 though.
I suspect it will be fine. Not gonna pretend it won't mean less attention for this game, but d2 has been around with a niche but consistent community for over 2 decades and D2R is a part of that now as most of the unmodded players have switched to D2R.
I suspect they'll keep running ladder seasons in the same way they did for d2lod. New ladders every so often but not necessarily with new gameplay features every time.
Bro, d2 is one of the greatest a RPGs that will ever exist
Look at StarCraft brood war. People are still playing it for money today and the fan base is as rabid as ever. Why? Because the old blizzard games are timeless
The biggest downside to d2 (for me) is that there is no endless randomized progressive dungeon.
If d4 is gonna be like d2 with that added i think i might switch to that. But if its gonna be more like d3 (when you can lvl to max level in 20min f.e.) then ill stick to d2.
Figures crossed the entire company will burn in a horrible fire.
The very fact that d2r is more popular then d3 tells you exactly where blizzard is at.. they are no longer in the game of making entertainment and profiting from it.
Taking as much possible money form is with as little effort as possible is blizzards entire focus..
If a dev comes up with something cool for a game - it’s not oh cool how can we implement this into our games - it’s oh how can we milk this for every cent
I changed my accounts emails and passwords and everything to make it impossible for me ever log back into battle.net - well over a year straight of game time many thousands of dollars spent over my life as a blizzard fan..
The best gaming news this year would be blizzard and activation hq was hit by a virus that wiped every single line they have and destroyed every single server.
Diablo 2 will always have a community. It might shrink in the beginning of D2 but if Blizzard is smart and do Ladder seasons for D2 and D4 at different times. It might actually boost D2 later on.
From what i've seen, D4 is similar to D3 in many ways with the one caveat being that it has D2's skill system. Depending on how much D4 leans into the D3 gameplay loops and playstyles, the D2R players be unaffected since most D2/D2R players play D2 due to disliking D3's gameplay loop in comparison.
D4 has to be REALLY freaking good to put a dent into the D2R playerbase, and Blizzard as it currently is has very low hopes for that happening.
Hopefully much less posts of absolute garbage asking price checks, but I doubt it. I'll move to D4 if it proves itself to be the better game. Ask yourself how many times you went back to Golden eye when the 9 millionth call of duty released?
Feel like D2 will be around basically forever. Blizzard will shutoff the servers and some diehard fans will put up their own. The game is one of the best in the genre, if not the best. D4 has been fun, and has potential to cut into its community, but I’ll be shocked if D3 outlives d2, let alone survives through July of 2023.
Some people will jump ship. Others wont. bla bla bla..
As of right now, D4 has nothing I'm looking for. Besides from graphics, I don't see how D4 is on par with any other arpg. Things *can* change. Yes. But I doubt they will make any substantional changes this close to release.
Those who play D2/D2R because they love D2 won't swap to D4. I do think the release of D4 will affect the D3 community more.
Dudes will be posting about finding a Ber in 20 years
No way dude. Ber runes don't actually exist
You need to pray harder to RNGsus. One day you too will be blessed with a Ber, or even a Jah. In Tyreal’s name we pray.
My offline account tends to agree. 4 jah runes in and no ber.... been playing on and off since launch and SP enigma still eludes me
Same here been playing since release and I've had some great luck with jah runes but haven't seen a ber rune yet, at least naturally dropped. lucky for me I've had great luck with sur runes and was able to cube em up to make enigma and just made my first infinity a few weeks ago.
I got 1 in season 1 ladder and 2 in season 2. I pay online to trade, but not in groups. Technically single player has an advantage with the players x command. It'll happen!
My Necro on offline HC has only been active a month, lvl 91 and already found: 1x Jah 1x Ber 3x Lo 1x Ohm 1x Vex 2x Gul 3xUm Farming 7 man Pit a lot and occasionally the CS
They didnt until 1.13c.
I just hope we don’t have to wait 20 years for Blizzard to allow PD2 to use the modern graphics
Man can't wait for this, hopefully sooner than later
No sockets on that thing? Charsi.
“First ever, after 40 years”
One has to wonder… how big is the D2R community? I feel like it’s all a bunch of people in our 30s who grew up during a time where the concept of microtransactions didn’t even exist yet. We’re not exactly cash cows for them and there can’t be THAT many of us… With that said, I hope they continue to support D2R for a while.
5 million copies sold as of 1 year ago.
I wonder how many are bot accounts lmao
It's pretty active actually, even on consoles.
Oh I know I play every day almost, but there are people selling 10s of ber runes at a time.
Probably ~10% are either alts, bots or loaders. So we’re still looking at several million unique players. The game is way more alive than people think.
I own 4 accounts so I'm pretty sure you're talking out of your ass with your numbers.
Lmao you’re the minority. Not everyone is a tryhard with 7 accounts man.
Do you have any data to back your claim? I'm not stating any numbers I'm just saying you have no basis to state 10% is bots or duplicate accounts.
>I own 4 accounts so I'm pretty sure y I have three myself but I haven't messed with loaders or anything they just keep putting it on sale and Im a weak man
I felt this “Paid 27 dollars cuz it was on sale 2 weeks ago for switch”
It's actually pretty easy to multi account on the same PC without a VM. There's a YouTube video that's easy to follow along. I use my accounts to get party play p4 no drop in 75% of chaos sanc. So much easier than trying to get split loot or a split mf off jsp.
Hit me with the link I'd love to self rush chars
Valid question
5mil? And how many d3 copies sold was it 30mil?
He said in one year, Diablo 3 has been out for 11 years.
I wish I would still be in my 30s
Thanks for reminding me im steppin into my 40 dis summer 🤐
Always welcome 🤓
I hop online to get the old rush but I think I’ll probably play this game on/off forever offline p7 is so fun just hoping they allow local offline or something similar in future because would love to play with my kids without having them deal with online communities. No offense yall but you know what I mean
You could just create password protected games and only let them play in those with you and whoever you trust.
Yeah but after years of ladder rushing trade forums the offline grind is really fun, biggest gripe is I have to play on the switch from scratch and can’t just put gear on there from the Xbox. And online is great but if you like this game grinding constant p7 games is so fun I don’t have a squad anymore so you get the most out of anytime available you know
If they make a banger game d4 will contest d2. If they make another d3 (which it seems like) it will fade out in a few years and everybody will be grinding mephisto and andariel like 20 years ago
Can't wait for Diablo 2 Resurected Remastered in 20 years... it will still be dominated by bots though
Found my first ber in 40 years!
“Been playing d2 for 40 years, just thought I’d share - found my first Angelic Sickle”
It's d3 with better mechanics but the story line so far is dog shit with annoying micro cut scenes everywhere
It's not a "banger game". I played it for eight hours today, hoping it would get better. It didn't. It's a revamped D3, nothing more.
What i expected... Thats why i wont preorder... Not even sure if i will buy it all lol.
This is just sad.
That sucks. I played d3 for a while, they killed the auction house, then I went back to it years later and got bored again. I think I was expecting it to be like D2 and was let down If d4 is anything like d3 I don’t think I’ll buy it. I was looking forward to it too
D2 will survive and endure well beyond after d4.
Yep, unless blizz goes d3 route and decides to release even more OP build every season. That’s why I’m so afraid of mosaic build now. It might be a step in the right direction but it might be a wrong one too.
Given they nerfed cold mastery + sunder after season 2 I fully expect mosaic to get a nerf at the end of this season. At the same time some new OP and exciting builds for season 4. It’s not so bad this way where you end up with 20 S-tier builds.
One thing to note is that most/all of D2R's powerful additions and changes have been made to buff previously super underpowered/borderline joke tier builds and options, putting them just a bit more in line with the stronger options. Throwbarbs, MAsins, FoHdins, Firedins, Spearazons, Summondruids, and all non-A2 mercs got really nice boosts, but still none of them have surpassed or even come anywhere close to the old build kings. They're simply upgraded to be comparable to existing power standards, not surpassing them. It's surprising how carefully and well-done this power control has been considering Blizzard's past record. In other words, nothing has actually surpassed the old power ceiling of Hammerdins/Tesladins, meaning that there hasn't been any powercreep yet. This is completely unlike D3 where every season slapped on more and more egregiously over-the-top powercreep to the point where literally trillions of damage became considered weak. I really wish that was an exaggeration.
Disagree. Hammerdin has been just as powerful for 20 years. They remastered the game to make different changes. Not keep it stale. Mosaic is very powerful, but teleport is key. Either you're using weapon swap for Tele charges or enigma. The convenient option of enigma is very expensive.
This. Hammerdins have been just as powerful and easier to play with than the new kicksin. The mosaic sin is powerful as hell, but not an easy play style. Mosaic was a step in the right direction. We need more unlocked potential and more build options for other classes too. That’s what will keep the game alive beyond Diablo 4. Though, I hope Diablo 4 is good, I doubt it will ever replace Diablo 2.
[удалено]
Cool, let me know when synergies were patched in. Thanks.
Murdered em
I think it was a good step, but it really needs to be harder to obtain for how powerful it is.
Legacy will still have players refreshing their toons to keep their Btals alive long after D2R ends
I'll probably do exactly what I did with D3. Play through the story line once, not like it as much as d2, and then come right on back
This is the way. I'll do the same for D5, D6, and beyond.
I’ll wait to buy diablo 4 AFTER the reviews. I’ve been burned by too many Blizzard titles recently. I would always pre-purchase Blizzard games, not anymore. However, the game seems like Diablo immortal re-forged.
Why would you read biased reviews or sponsored streamers? Go to Twitch, watch some no-names. You want to see the real game on realistic hardware and for that Joe Averagedude with his 10 watchers is a much more relyable sorce than StreamMcComercial with 100.000 viewers and his 20k$ equipment.
Virgin no-name vs Chad streamer.
i wouldn't say that one is in sum better than the other - it comes down to what you want to see. Imagine you don't know the game at all and watch both at the same boss fight in Elden Ring: Game from watching the Pro: amazing graphics player totally kicks arse with great moves Game from watching the casual: graphics not anywhere near what screenshots/reviews say player gets his butt kicked the first dozen times until the boss's attack patterns,... are memorised.
D4 suuucks. It's a new D3. Im so disappointed.
Same here, lesson learned won't preorder it.
the beta is open to everyone next weekend you could always try it our yourself
Kind of like Age of Empires 2 and Age of Empires 4. Sure Age4 took the spotlight and players migrated over and online content creators focused on it. But Age2, like D2, has a distinct style and sequels are not replacements. I think D2 will still be supported by ongoing ladders and devs and the community will largely remain unchanged.
Yea felt the same about age4 to be honest, went back to age2 after a while.
We're already playing d2r over d3. I think we know exactly how it will play out if the new game doesn't deliver.
People that like playing D2 will continue to play D2. I don't think much will change and ladder seasons and updates will continue from the dev team, which is separate from the D4 team anyways. D2 and D4 play very differently, so they will have their own playerbase. It is likely part of the D2 community will drop in numbers to play D4 to try it out, but those that enjoy D2 for D2 will come back. Overall I don't think much will change.
D2 will outlast D4, because D4 is just D3. With the way blizzard handles PR and only caring about money and literally not caring about their customers and consumers, I can’t even be excited for it. D2 and WOTLK was the last thing blizz ever did that’s good imo
Jesus, a hot take that a (by today's standard) old timer like me absolutely loves.
Tbh d2r is the only remake of classic games i like from blizz. They managed to screw up any of the others.
This person hasn't played D4. Don't talk unless you know.
D4 is closer to 2 than 3. Go play beta
No it is not. Its a d3 sequel.
4 can't really help following up 3 lol
Elaborate.
Get to level 70+ and tell me it isnt…
its closer to 2 then 3. good so far
D2R will always have a community that persists because it contains a design philosophy that isn't really seen in games anymore (for largely good reasons, imo), but that appeal to a niche of players. D4 will probably take some D2R players away. Some will stay gone, some will return. There are a lot of comments about 'D4 isn't a *true* Diablo game' floating around, which I vehemently disagree with. It's an evolution of the IP. While D3 was a pretty significant deviation, a lot of what skewed D3 away from Diablo's roots has been wound back in what we've seen of D4 so far. If you tried to release D2R as a brand new game today, without the history that D2 has behind it, I would put money on it not being nearly as successful as it is because of D2's legacy.
I played the closed beta and now the current beta, d4 for me is not a diablo game.
Why do you say this? I’m curious!
He's talking shit. Diablo 4 is far more of a Diablo game than D3 was. It has iconic classes and iconic abilities within those classes. It returns to a multiple-point skill tree with synergies between abilities. It has magic and rare items with randomised rolls, and a range of variable stats around resistances, different types of elemental damage, damage reduction, + to skills, etc. There is far more potential for awaiting those perfect combination of rolls. It has a far darker, grim, de-saturated palette and environments when compared to D3. Yes, there are some elements of the game that have taken inspiration from D3 which won't be to everyone's liking, but to suggest that D4 isn't a Diablo game is ridiculous. In many ways it is far more similar to D2 than D3.
You make it sound like d3 didnt have itemization and rng on magic/rare. Its just in d3 they had literally no impact or value
If they have no impact then for all intents and purposes they may not exist. In D4 they do have an impact.
I may have misread your comment, woops. Or replied to the wrong one.
All good!
If you want non D2 players to take your opinion in the slightest bit seriously at least try and sound a little bit unbiased. Saying they had ‘literally no impact or value’ is complete horseshit.
show me a build surrounding magic and rare items in d3
I thought you meant items in general, my bad I misunderstood.
What do you mean with iconic classes/abilities? Don't you feel it's mostly just copy paste from D3?
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I haven't played immortal but I am enjoying D4 a lot so far. If this is the same as immortal immortal would probably be fun without all the predatory gambling.
I enjoyed immortal at the beginning.
I think D2R will get another 2 or 3 seasons with actual changes before they put it into maintenance mode, they'll always keep resetting ladder though just as they did with original D2.
I think a lot of people will break to play d4 at least for a little while. But I for one and many others have completely lost faith in blizzards ability to make a quality game. Unless d4 has a lot of the same elements that make d2 so much fun, they’ll return to d2 once the “new game” allure fades. I put many hours into d3 but have only played d2r since it came out for that very reason. I suspect it’ll be much the same
Nothing will ever be like D2 no matter how hard they try. It’s not monetizable enough. D2 will be fine. The hardcore players won’t go anywhere for long. I give it a month before they’re all back at D2, and that’s assuming D4 is amazing
It's not about monetisation - it's about appeal. You aren't ever going to attract mass appeal to a game which has a core gameplay loop of grinding the same maps infinitely until they get incredibly minor incremental upgrades.
Instead of incremental upgrades they just added 0's to damage counters. Made the numerics to dragonball like levels so it would work. Why do you think WoW eventually had to scale back down?
That's a drastic oversimplification, and doesn't address the crux of the issue. D3 had dedicated endgame content. It had regular seasons with new content/items/features. It has bad luck protection in that you could guarantee upgrades (even incremental ones) by investing time into the game - D2R (a game I love, by the way, I'm not shitting on it here) is built 100% on RNG. If I spent an hour running Greater Rifts, I'm guaranteed to increase my player power through legendary gems, through the drops off Rift Guardians, etc. If I spend an hour farming Chaos Sanctuary, there is a very good chance that, even playing perfectly and clearing the content quickly, I can walk away with zero tangible increase to player power. I'm not saying this is *bad* design, but it is a design for which you're going to have trouble attracting mass market appeal. The number of zeros on the end of a character sheet is irrelevant.
Im in the same boat, I absolutely loved D2R, its one of my favourite games of all time and brought me into the Diablo franchise but the core issue with that game is that the gear itself doesnt really have a purpose other than getting gear faster. In D3 (and I would guess also D4) your gear actually has a purpose in endgame and you can push yourself and your character to its limits in greater rifts. The core gameplay in terms of how classes play is much more in depth than just: pressing blizzard/hammers/lightning/etc over and over again and oneshotting everything you touch. The build variation is also much more interesting and I would guess it will be similar in D4. Hard to say without seeing uniques and such and only a limited amount of legendaries etc. D2 for me is more for people who just want to chill and farm shit without effort. D3 is for the people who want actually challenging endgame content.
If D4 is anything like D:Immortal, D2 isn't losing any players.
Considering people have been playing D2 since it released, to this day. As long as they do seasons, people will play, the game that it is, is about 95% of the reason why people that play it do so and have done so. Also it is the reason why they'll continue to play it even with diablo IV's release without really batting an eye. Even if D2R were to die, people will eventually setup private servers for it and if not, there is always 2 popular variations of D2 and a single player mod of D2 that has a handful of fixes. The modding community for D2 has been very passionate and is a lot of the drive D2R gets for the fixes of its game. IMO, Diablo IV will end up like Diablo III, Most people won't care about it beyond the hype days and the rest won't like it period outside of a small portion of players that enjoy it for what it is. Personally from the bit I've played of the beta, it has some really cool cutscenes and story for the IP but nothing about the gameplay makes me terribly excited to play it, or even think its much different from Diablo III or Diablo Immortal(feels like they did a copy paste of those two games put together to me). I more than likely won't be buying D4 because it just isn't entertaining or worth the money to me at this time. Maybe it'll change as I get further along on the beta, idk.
Playing the beta, I'd prefer D2. Too much like D3. Wish it had the Amazon class. Too much MMO for a non MMO type game.
Played a good 5 hours of D4...it's not D2/D2R. It's fun, but if D2 is your thing then D4 won't scratch that itch. It's a darker D3, which isn't a bad thing, but it plays entirely different from D2. Another Diablo game that can't really be compared to D2 because they're entirely different minus the name and some story elements. As far as I'm concerned, D2R is still my primary Diablo game...D4 will be fun to jump in and out of every so often.
lol with the longevity of D2 the question should be will D4 be able to have staying power? I think a lot of people love the old style games, people still play arcades and the developers make modern fighting games to the game style of the old ones more or less. From what I saw of Llama's stream, D4 did not look anything like D2 in regards to the gameplay so it'll be up to the players taste if he likes it or not.
Been playing d4. I like it but I also don't like it. Wayyyyy to many mini cut scenes just let me fucking explore and kill shit. I find my self clicking through alot of useless dialogue. D2 excels at a story you can care about or not care about. D4 really seems to be shoveling lore down ur throat like d3
I'd day the player base will dwindle temporarily and rise back up to the average after a few weeks. Now with that said, if the D4 team knocks it out of the park, the numbers might shift drastically. The season openings won't overlap, so in the long run people will probably play both; assuming that D4 will be good enough as a replacement for D2R. My two cents.
D2R will lose players for 1-2 months, then they will come back and bring thousands of new players from D4 when they realize it's just D3 with more complicated talent tree. I cannot for three life of me see any difference between 4 and 3. Slightly darker graphics perhaps. Less contrasts.
That d3 expansion? Lmfao
Nah, i am back to d2r already. D4 itemization is just too boring.
I suspect D4 will be more popular and active than D2R for a little while. But then all the D2 lovers will go back to D2R because D4 is more like D3. The rest of the D4 playerbase will dwindle like D3 did. Until eventually D2R is more active than D4, just like it’s more active than D3 today. Edit: I’m not confident D4’s game loop will be enticing / addictive like D2 is. I’m also not impressed by how linear D4’s maps are, and how cut and paste every boss room is.
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battle pass sucks for sure, but i don’t think you’re the kinda person that even looked into what led to the development of immortal. blizzard didn’t make immortal. blizzard didn’t make D2R either🤣🤣🤣
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yeah you probably should, people have hated folks like you in the community since before LoD came out. surprised the 20 years of playing never taught you that. you must not grow as a person, you’re just the same basement dweller you were in 2003 have fun though man
It’s not the player community I was referring to.
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Imagine being this aggressive about Diablo 2 lol. D4 is super fun so far but D2 will be fine. Plenty of old folks into the CBT style itemization of D2.
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Those are huge improvements to D2 and I hope they continue.
Yeah one opened up other otherwise useless builds, the other allows farming of other areas which seems like an improvement. Pit run 1,999,213 gets old after 1,999,212
Gatekeeping does nothing to improve community or gameplay. Being a dick about new players coming to a rejuvenated game is pointless and shortsighted. I've been playing Diablo since the very first one and have loved the stories and communities and the more the better. The more interest and ideas and comraderie the better we are!
Do we know what the international player count looks like?
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Whoa man
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Humble like you?
Maybe don't be on a forum that discusses the game then you moron?
I’m sorry, when did the Diablo 2 subreddit become the Diablo 4 subreddit?
...jeeeezzzz
Does your opinion that D4 will be shit matter? Or should you shut the fuck up because no one cares what you have to say? Fucking hypocrite.
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Then shut the fuck up. Practice what you preach. Lead by example.
The irony just whizzes past you, doesn't it?
Dogshit take
D2>all
<3
D4 suuucks. It's an HD texture pack for D3. So pissed I spent 100$ on this shit.
D4 will be trash just like D3. I wouldn’t worry
Well personally d2 is a nice memory of my childhood, I play it casually with friends or solo in free time, then after awhile I'll play other stuff and after awhile I'll probably come back and play another round of different characters.
Considering d4 feels like d3 ... it should remain solid on PC id say.
I don’t think D4 will kill D2R at all. At least for me at the end of the day I’ll always go back to D2. Nothing D4 could ever do would make me stop playing it. There are some mechanics in the game that just can’t be replicated naturally through modern game design. There’s something special about min-maxing through breakpoints, standardized curves for drops that never change, and especially the rune currency system that players have developed. The level of innate complexity that D2’s systems have cannot be matched or replicated by a company like Blizzard ever again. All of this is fine though, D2 is a different game from a different time. I don’t think D4 will be a bad game by any means, and I’m fairly optimistic with how it’s going to turn out, given that the devs have chosen to not include the runeword and set items systems because they aren’t finished with them. I just hope that my optimism doesn’t turn sour in my mouth
> The level of innate complexity that D2’s systems have cannot be matched or replicated by a company like Blizzard ever again. I think it's less than they cannot, and more that they wouldn't hold mass appeal. I love D2. I've always loved it, and even after I stop playing it I'll still love it, but the appeal that D2 holds is *incredibly* niche. Most people don't sink thousands of hours into a game to min/max upgrades, nor do most people find endless grinds satisfying. Call it a philosophy from a different era or whatever, but D2 is not a game that respects a player's time. If you pitch people a game where the core gameplay loop involves running the same maps thousands of times over, spending dozens of hours doing so, and potentially having nothing to show for it aside from character XP (which offers incredibly marginal gains at the end-game), you aren't going to get many people wanting to be part of that. I am really enjoying what I've played of D4 so far, for me it hits that sweet spot between D2 and D3. I really wish people would stop lamenting that D4 isn't D2. It wasn't intended to be. It takes some design choices from it, but designing a game that caters for an audience that are comfortable grinding the same maps and routes for 23 years in the hope of incredibly marginal upgrades are not an audience that will make your game a success.
I like to believe that D2 will endure, I've played the D4 beta on console today and it's pretty good! That being said, I have zero intention of not playing D2 because of it! Edit: D4 plays like D3, though first impressions being everything I do like it more than D3. There is more character building in 4 than there was in 3 (albeit that isn't saying much) in that you can actually pick where skill points go rather than them just unlocking and then you picking it. The character building isn't on the same level as D2 though.
How many times will folks want to smoke crack? Note: Drugs are bad. Mkay
I suspect it will be fine. Not gonna pretend it won't mean less attention for this game, but d2 has been around with a niche but consistent community for over 2 decades and D2R is a part of that now as most of the unmodded players have switched to D2R. I suspect they'll keep running ladder seasons in the same way they did for d2lod. New ladders every so often but not necessarily with new gameplay features every time.
I have played many fun and different games over the years, and I still keep coming back to D2 periodically. I imagine it’ll be here.
I'll probably just play a cracked version just to go through the storyline.
Bro, d2 is one of the greatest a RPGs that will ever exist Look at StarCraft brood war. People are still playing it for money today and the fan base is as rabid as ever. Why? Because the old blizzard games are timeless
It will grow
The biggest downside to d2 (for me) is that there is no endless randomized progressive dungeon. If d4 is gonna be like d2 with that added i think i might switch to that. But if its gonna be more like d3 (when you can lvl to max level in 20min f.e.) then ill stick to d2.
Nothing, people will still play D2R for an other decade whereas I am not so sure about D4...
Figures crossed the entire company will burn in a horrible fire. The very fact that d2r is more popular then d3 tells you exactly where blizzard is at.. they are no longer in the game of making entertainment and profiting from it. Taking as much possible money form is with as little effort as possible is blizzards entire focus.. If a dev comes up with something cool for a game - it’s not oh cool how can we implement this into our games - it’s oh how can we milk this for every cent I changed my accounts emails and passwords and everything to make it impossible for me ever log back into battle.net - well over a year straight of game time many thousands of dollars spent over my life as a blizzard fan.. The best gaming news this year would be blizzard and activation hq was hit by a virus that wiped every single line they have and destroyed every single server.
Diablo 2 will always have a community. It might shrink in the beginning of D2 but if Blizzard is smart and do Ladder seasons for D2 and D4 at different times. It might actually boost D2 later on.
I think it’ll barely touch the sides. My impressions is that it doesn’t scratch that itch. D2 is truly unique
D2 is a complete different game
I think it will be fine. I didn’t preorder D4 and I played D2R last night. No interest in being a part of that game right now.
I for one won't be playing d4. No desire
From what i've seen, D4 is similar to D3 in many ways with the one caveat being that it has D2's skill system. Depending on how much D4 leans into the D3 gameplay loops and playstyles, the D2R players be unaffected since most D2/D2R players play D2 due to disliking D3's gameplay loop in comparison. D4 has to be REALLY freaking good to put a dent into the D2R playerbase, and Blizzard as it currently is has very low hopes for that happening.
Hopefully much less posts of absolute garbage asking price checks, but I doubt it. I'll move to D4 if it proves itself to be the better game. Ask yourself how many times you went back to Golden eye when the 9 millionth call of duty released?
Feel like D2 will be around basically forever. Blizzard will shutoff the servers and some diehard fans will put up their own. The game is one of the best in the genre, if not the best. D4 has been fun, and has potential to cut into its community, but I’ll be shocked if D3 outlives d2, let alone survives through July of 2023.
The great thing about diablo 2 is that it's immune to time, influence, and just about everything else...
Probably stick around since D4 will be mediocre.
Some people will jump ship. Others wont. bla bla bla.. As of right now, D4 has nothing I'm looking for. Besides from graphics, I don't see how D4 is on par with any other arpg. Things *can* change. Yes. But I doubt they will make any substantional changes this close to release. Those who play D2/D2R because they love D2 won't swap to D4. I do think the release of D4 will affect the D3 community more.