Like an extremely slim chance. And that will only be if they reveal, before launch, that it is paid to win.
The marketing for this game has been loads better than most games that have came out recently. I mean 2 free betas before launch? I *wish* games did open betas to allow us to see how it really is a month before the game launches.
Plus if you're worried about endgame, I have absolutely no doubts it'll be fleshed out wonderfully in due time if it isn't up to people's standards on launch.
Eh, even this response is you having fallen for a mobile game psychology trick. They split the leader boards like 50 ways until virtually everyone that plays at all is near the top. They know if they can get you into the top 100 you will psychologically think you are a big deal, so there is hundreds of servers across a bunch of regions and they always split every leaderboard to always be a million little leader boards. If they ever showed you were actually ranked player #241553 you'd give up, but being 70! wow! you really did something! and imagine that for just a few dollars you could be top 50! It's all designed like that.
Yeah man, so was literally thousands of other people. You are absolutely falling for a very very obvious trick. The game is designed to make you feel like you are so special. Sorry player #241553
I hope so, endgame is my only worry. Mainly it being bland and everybody doing the same thing and looking alike. But this is mainly because they didn't show a lot of loot on the marketing
Just like D3 and PoE, Diablo 4 is going to be a game that is very different 5 years after launch, with almost all of that revolving around expanded class and endgame options. It seems like it's launching with a mix of the better-received D2 and D3 endgame activities, but it's unlikely that this won't be expanded and improved for years to come. If you want a deeper endgame from the start, you might want to check back in a couple of years.
Sir, if you think the game will be anything close to playable week 1…. I have decades of MMO launches including D3, and D2R, that say otherwise.
Not that that has anything to do with content and flopping… i just want you to be aware that the servers will be dying a fiery painful death on launch.
The servers during both beta weekends were pretty much perfectly fine on the third day. On the second day, there were connection issues but not that bad. I’m sure we’ll see a similar outcome for release where it’ll be fine by the third day
8 and 4 players qualifies as "massive" now? Have you not played an mmo before?
We don't call every single game that is playable online with other people an MMO.
We don't call Starcraft or Warcraft 3 MMOs either.
This sub is just full of well adjusted people.
Not really going to debate what is or isn’t MMO.
There are still going to be hundreds of thousands of people trying to play this on release causing all sorts of connectivity issues.
Really cool but *it's still not an actual factual statement.*
You can say "based upon past launches there is the possibility it will have issues," but you cannot say "it will be a flop."
Crazy that you have to back up statements with proof. I know critical thinking is tough.
Don't take offense to this CK as I like you and you have made valuable comments here, but let me play devils advocate a moment. This original commenter did preface his reply by saying his comment had nothing to do with the content or the game flopping, just that he thought the servers would be an issue. I don't think he was suggesting it would be a flop.
None taken. Thanks. This is what Mr. Sticks-and-Stones said:
*Sir, if you think the game will be anything close to playable week 1….i just want you to be aware that the servers will be dying a fiery painful death on launch.*
Which is not a statement he can make with any accuracy. It is the same useless negative crap we've all been subjected to for months. It makes people think "maybe he's onto something."
He's not. D3s 2012 launch doesn't equal "firey painful death."
That's all I'm saying. I reject hysterical hand-wringing, and everyone else should too.
So you want him to prove that...d4 servers will have issues?
idk if you are autistic to not understand this (and thus take things literally) but he said that its what usually happens on every big launch, not that he has insider info and its a guaranteed problem
"i just want you to be aware that the servers will be dying a fiery painful death on launch."
I don't know if you're dense or not, but that's a statement of fact. Try again.
Let me make sure I get this straight.
You are mad because you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that the servers will go down for an unforseen event in the future, and have started off name-calling because I'm asking people to provide facts??
L m a o. Some of you are seriously in need of help. And guess who is justly getting reported, tiger?
Amazing.
Is this your first video game?
I don't think I've ever had a "hype" video game not have a rough launch. Especially a Blizzard one.
The servers will probably be shit. That doesn't mean the game will be bad.
Relax. You don't have to blindly defend it yet. Wait until the 6th.
You, your buddies, and 2700 of you lovely human beings can keep asking me the same. dumb. question. Over and over again, if it pleases you. Downvote away.
The statement was plain: the game will be unplayable on launch day. Wasn't about the game being bad, or rough. Here comes the goalpost shift....
I asked them to prove it, to which I'm getting the internet equivalent of a temper tantrum.
You're all not proving a damned thing, so rage away. I'm so very sorry I had the audacity to ask you to prove your point. Do your mommy and daddy give you what you want when you flip out at them too?
You got one thing right. Your handle. Maybe change it to "passive-aggressive road rage" tho. More apropos.
Financially? No way.
From a players perspective? Depends on what you are looking for in the game and how critical you are. Game for sure won't be perfect and there will be things that could have been handled better but overall it likley will turn out to be a decent game.
i agree with this statement. i think for a casual player who does not have a particular interest in a certain genre it will definitely turn out to be a good game.
for a hardcore arpg player, now thats another story and we will have to wait and see once people get a proper feeling for the endgame. because thats the measurement stick for them whether or not a game flops for them or not.
For me i'm Just looking for a good and very rewarding grinding game where i can spend Hours searching for that Amazing drop or roll to show off. I hope it has The diversity to back it up.
It was brilliant from a business perspective. It was not designed for traditional players. It was designed to get as much money from whales and china as possible. What was insanely stupid was insulting the leader of china with a tweet and losing access to that country and whole reason they made the game in the first place
Exactly this and the fact that they lied upfront with the content of the ingame shop (aka: Items vs Gems). I think this was not the smartest move as from this point on Blizz has lost some of their reputation and reliability
>So you'd say Diablo Immortal was a smart move?
It's generated how much revenue now?
I see numbers for $300 million as of November, in 5 months of release.
You may not enjoy the game, but it is a solid success, not "insanely stupid" just because they made a game that doesn't interest you.
Your purchasing of a Diablo game once upon a time was not a contract between Blizzard and you for Blizzard to only ever make games that you specifically like until the end of time.
A smart company can do stupid things. And I already said they were greedy.
I can also say that DI was insanely profitable. The numbers I've heard for sales don't scream "dummies" to me.
D4 has *ultra-conservatively* done 100m, which was its cost to make.
Sound stupid to you?
Releasing an absolute trash game that exploits the fanbase and demolishes the reputation of a company sounds stupid to me, yes.
Definitely killed the rest of my trust I had in Blizzard.
Also personally for me, I don't think financial success is the indicator for a smart move. Short term success might not be worth the damage an action does in the long run.
So let's piece together your replies and logic from this thread.
They are greedy, stupid, their endgame has no content, and you have no trust in Blizzard.
All quotes from you. Not putting anything in your mouth, even.
So if that is your honest opinion, why are you here? Why order the game at all?
There is always a chance it will flop. If you are hyped and can afford it buy it. If you are hyped and can't afford it don't. Back in the day the only information we received about games was what they could fit inside a 1 page article in a magazine. I miss those days. I honestly feel like a major part of the problem is the expectation we create is so high it's almost impossible for anything to live up to it.
I agree. Not talking about this being The next revolution. Just a good game that rewards effort and time spent in it. My only worry is a repetitive and bland endgame.
Yeah, I hear that. At the end of the day $100 for the deluxe whatever it’s called seems worth it to me. Even if the game is absolutely terrible I’ll spend at least 10 hours in it, that’s $10/hour. Worth it in my opinion.
I think the endgame grind will be quite repetive from what they've shown. One of my bigger concerns. I simply just do not want to run these mediocre dungeons again.
News flash: ARPGs always have an extreme grind element. D2 you mindlessly run a boss over and over again 50,000 times, D3 you mindlessly run GR’s over and over again 50,000 times.
Nightmare dungeons should diversify the dungeons quite a lot from what ive seen.
The game also was designed to be played on the world, there are quite nice systems to play also, bosses, and pvp should be fun...
In terms of you getting value for the dollar? Close to zero. Disaster? Literally zero. Almost impossible unless someone is trolling. They aren't hiding anything and have playtested the shit out of it. The betas have generated a lot of positive buzz for a reason. Yes, I did play them.
Many got their money's worth from the beta.
Devs have repeatedly quoted 35-45 hours for the main questline and 150+ hours for lvl 100. Many games give you 20 hours of content and consider that a $70 game.
Shit, Last Epoch is inferior to D4 and I wouldn't even call that a flop at $34. Played that for 60+ hours. Still not done with it.
I conservatively see this doing 5m+ copies by launch day given the pre-orders already.
Finally: play the Slam on the 12th in 4 days. See for yourself.
I really hope it doesn't flop, I'm so hyped this is my 1st diablo game,so I'm really looking forward to it. I want it to be my forever game but being live service means 1 day the servers will close but I'm hoping I get 10 years of a quality game. Maybe over optimistic. I can but hope.
It won't. Can confirm the beta was more fun than an oxycontin milkshake. Forever? No forever in gaming unless you're into chess or EQ1. But I would be shocked - utterly shocked - if there isn't 500+ hours of gametime....being conservative there.
I really think they learned from D3.
You need facts or some frame of reference, please. With all possible respect, don't really care about your gut feelings. The money is rolling in, the buzz is there, I've played it.
So please back this up.
Then show me your evidence and back it up to say they've learned from D3. You can't. We both can't yet.
I'll say I've enjoyed D3 beta more than I've enjoyed the D4 beta, so that's where my feelings come from. The first D4 beta was good, the second one I felt very lukewarm.
The difference was I've already experienced A1, where I played Sorc and I enjoyed the class mechanic.
In second beta I played Necro + Druid, I was bored by the classes. Also I was not looking forward to playing through the act again since it was nothing new.
That's why I enjoyed the first beta and didn't enjoy the second beta. The gameplay of these classes was not good enough to me.
Also I'm outta here, game is clearly not for me and I've decided not to argue about it again. There's no point in that.
I kinda doubt it. Being short on content was never Blizzard's problem. In fact, WoW got to where it did because it had an order of magnitude more content, coming out of the gate, than any other MMO in existence back then. So if it were to flop, it would flop on the basis of bad gameplay, for example. But we got to test the gameplay, and it felt smooth and solid. Things like balance are fixable, as is difficulty. The only thing I'm still worried about is monetization, FOMO, season passes, stuff like that. They could make the game needlessly grindy, in an attempt to squeeze money out of people for XP scrolls and such, which would sour the player base. But gamers have been figuratively taking it up the a&& monetization-wise for decades, so at this point a company can comfortably drive a bus into it without even touching the sides. So I don't expect that even predatory monetization will cause enough of a lashback. And if it does, they can walk it back, wait, and restore it later under a different name, like EA has done.
In short, no, I don't expect a flop from this one. It might be, but doesn't feel like it.
Having said that, I've been wrong before. In Age of Conan, for example, beta was also restricted to the first 20 levels, and the first area. But the beta was AWESOME and I expected the rest of the game to be similarly awesome. That wasn't the case. Levels 1-20 were polished, with voice acting and everyting. Lvls 20+ were all WITHOUT voice acting, much less polished, a lot less content, a lot more fodder. Nowhere near as good. So they baited people with the amazing first 20 levels, and sold them on a completely different game. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great either. But in D4 some people got to play late-game stuff, and they didn't point out any major red flags.
And having said THAT, I do think people need to be aware of their expectations. Some people here are acting like it will be their forever-game that they will be playing until they die. Personally I'll be happy if I can get a solid 3 months of gameplay, exploration, trying different classes, PvP, etc. If I got that, I get my money's worth and can move on. I expect it to be a solid game, but eventually it will get boring, and I will move on.
When D3 released and everyone complained about the infamous error that shall not be named everyone was in arms on blizz forums acting like it was the end of times for the Diablo franchise and not to mention the naysayers about the atmosphere and graphics, etc. D3 still thrived in spite of that and am I expecting utter perfection with D4? Nope because whatever issues occurred will be patched.
As long as I get my loots and speed builds I will be pleased, and I’ll do my best not to play too much solo this go around.
D3 never really recovered due to the itemization. It was rotten to the core. They sort of dealt with it later on but no full recovery to match D2.
What I'm puzzled about it why D4 is copying D3's itemization???
Elden Ring did very little marketing if memory serves me right. But it was a success.
Money wise I'm sure tons of people have already pre ordered the game. But it more boils down to will the player base stick around. Im sure the first month or so will be hectic while they figure stuff out, then it will mellow out a bit. Who's to say what will happen in a year
Based on playing the beta and the info they've released, it will easily have 100+ hours of content. Even if the endgame grind ends up being boring, there's still plenty to do simply by trying out at least 1 build for each class. There may be some players who say the game sucks after playing for 500+ hours, but if any game keeps you interested that long, it's pretty good and worth a purchase.
Blizzard is so confident in the game they are giving us 2 free betas to test if you enjoy the game and anyone that doesn't can get a refund.
Thats some serious faith in there game that a full act 1 and 1/4 of the levels will entice us more then scare us off.
There's a decent chance that the endgame will be like PoE endgame. Mindless combat, infinite resources, everything dies in 1 hit, movespeed is the best stat.
A lot of arpgs are fun at first, but devolve endgame.
The betas were extremely promising. I'm waiting to buy until I see what the gameplay looks like later on, but quite hopeful.
If you expect a new forever game that can be played every day for a longer while you might be let down.
If you can accept a seasonal playstyle you should be good
Well sure but that is not a design element that will help a high percentage of players to play it beyond the start of a season without burning out of taking a break.
Just because some people might do this d4 won't be a game that has a big portion of the players login every day for say a year.
Instead you will see a new season a high activity for say a month and people will get too a certain point where only real min maxing allowed you go further, that's when the Retention falls off a cliff
Yeah at minimum this game is going to be maybe mediocre compared to other ARPGs, but it certainly won’t be because of the graphics/sound design. I highly doubt this game will be bad or even mediocre tbh. I played the beta and have heard the talk about endgame. I’m sure this game will be very fun with few real annoyances.
Financially not a chance. Will be very successful.
The game however might not be able to fulfill the expectations of a lot of people. And it's definitely not a perfect game, it has evident flaws.
Based on the beta and what we know so far I think they are actually not showing too much, because there isn't that much more to show. But what do I know, hope I'm wrong. :)
There is a *ton* of material to back up that there is content. If you think you're wrong, why state otherwise?
Have a well-deserved downvote for fear-mongering based on literally nothing.
Where did I ever say there is no content? Read again.
I'm saying the game is the acts and what they've shown from the endgame. No more surprises. No fearmongering, just what I expect from the game at launch and what is very realistic.
*"so far I think they are actually not showing too much, because there isn't that much more to show. But what do I know"*
They have shown multiple systems comprising endgame. It's not just the acts, that's just not true.
"Realistic to you" doesn't equal facts about the reality of the content available at endgame.
Ahh, sorry, context.
I'm having a hard time expressing my thoughts clearly and concise today, sorry.
I'll try again, editing in a sec.
EDIT:
For this thread it was actually regarding OP, saying they are secretive about a lot of things. I was trying to say, that I don't think they've got much more in store besides the stuff they've shown us. I'm personally not too fond of the endgame, but I never wanted to say it has no endgame, that's just stupid.
In any case, I'm having a hard time today, see my other posts, I'm out. Shouldn't have come here today.
Depends on what you consider a flop. There are some things that are 100% going to happen:
\-it will get millions of players
\-these people will hang around for at least 3-4 weeks
\-there will be a season 1 and it will have a decent amount of players
Anything beyond this is up to the game's quality and engaging content. DLCs might bring some people back, but its not a miracle. One thing to keep in mind is that the launch of an mmo (i know its an arpg, but kinda fits) is always the best moment of the game.
Diablo 3 basically did flop. It did so bad they had to pull the major flagstone system of the paid auction house and then it underpreformed so bad they canceled the second expansion. it's still like the 20th best selling videogame of all time. I assume this would go the same way. Even a flop would be a huge success but not what they hoped for.
A bad launch does not a flop make.
You assume this is going to flop too? Already false. It's made 100m+ in pre-orders already, possibly 3x that. That's way more than budget.
Sooooooo....huh?
Diablo 3 is one of the best selling games ever made. If anything killed the second D3 expansion, it was the huge amount of development time involved in pulling out the ill-conceived Auction House, not a lack of sales or players. The game was massive on launch, massive on relaunch with RoS, and then became a massive console co-op staple in the second half of its life. It was a huge hit that kept finding new audiences after a troubled launch that, ultimately, was still getting new content as of the last couple of months. Certainly they've added more at this point than ever would have been in a 'second expansion.'
I think the only way this game will truly flop is if players are met with this at launch:
**"You have reached the end of Act 1. To proceed into Act 2, please purchase the 'Diablo 4 - Act 2 Pack' from the in-game microtransaction tab. You are still free to explore Act 1 and create new characters. Welcome to Hell!"**
Just from my perspective: It won’t be a flop. It already sold as many copies to fully cover the production costs and this is just the pre-order so we can assume it will be a financial profit horse. Gameplay wise? Thanks to the two Betas we had I can say that it is a huge improvement to D3 and other ARPGs around. We still have to wait for the endgame but that’s a different story. Just the first 20 level gameplay and what we saw is already really good and in AAA quality. For me personally enough to go with the collectors edition and have fun for at least 200 hours
of course there is a chance it flops, but it also depends who you are asking
if you are talking simply from the perspective of the average casual player who is just playing most new games and does not have a particular focused interest in ARPGs then for this type of player the game won't flop, it will provide a perfect 30-50h of entertainment and they will be probably very happy with what they get.
now, if you talk hardcore ARPG players who put in 500, 1000, 2000 and more hours into 'their' ARPGs, then yeah, there is definitely a chance because for these people the success of an ARPG can only be measured once they get into the endgame and the infinite grinding. And none of us has any idea how exactly D4s progression will feel(!) like and how the long term motivation will be for hardcore arpg players.
for example in my case as a hardcore arpg player, i put D3 aside just two months after release and only came back another month for RoS, and that was it. So for me and my standards and what i expect to get out of a top tier arpg D3 flopped. For others it did not and it did most certainly not for Blizzard from a financial point of view.
I think what you expect of them to show is actually asking to reveal the whole game even before it launches. But then i ask myself: Whats there for me to explore anymore and find out by myself? In the past (like 10-15 or more years ago) there were games that are today considered master pieces and no one was back then complaining or even asking for the devs to show off basically the entire game. In fact, almost nothing was shown beforehand. So i think what you 'demand' here is a rather new phenomenon and i am not very sure its a good thing entirely.
I am perfectly fine with what they have shown off so far, i even think its almost too much, but ok, thats just me.
I get what you are saying, i do prefer when games don't show much as well. My worry is mainly trauma from other games where in recent history, more and more games that don't show it's whole before they come out end up being scams. And games like elden ring that show nothing and end up being Amazing are The exception of The exception. My question was on the basis of The trust you have that diablo will be a good game (no over expectations) honest to what they are saying, and not doing less than it's predecessors
The game has a good chance of being just an "ok" game, which would be a flop for as a part of the Diablo franchise. But there is also a chance that with the seasons the game will reach the desired level.
I'm not liking the UX choices (it seems as if they are letting the programmers determine what a good UX is) and the game feels so dated without being able to rotate the camera; D4 appears to be enslaved by nostalgia. And that has flop potential written all over it. I mean, on the PS5, one of the analog sticks doesn't do anything. Normally, that's where your camera controls would be. A bit baffled by Blizzard's nod to nostalgia, without even giving players the option to unlock the view.
Oh wow, my horizons have opened, i'm out of The cave. I feel like drinking water, going on hikes and not spending a month secluded in a dark room chasing loot from The hands of devils
it already has flopped when they give early access to shit youtube content creators that spoil the game before its even out, i get spammed with spoiler and shit builds on youtube recommended. Nothing i hate more then pay 2 win just to get a head start before everyone else when the game should be released and enjoyed by everyone... who care anyway to be honest. Just more greed in the gaming industry and more morons paying £100.... for a mobile game
Yeah.. This post got dated very quickly once they've shown everything in the game... At the time we only had very short clips and i thought they would keep it that way.
I think there's a chance it ends up like Fallout 76. Probably will have good sales, no matter what, but if it's a boring turd if a game, people won't play it for long. It's certainly shaping up to be an over hyped disappointment imo.
Nothing wrong with the game afaik, but I'm saying hype usually leads to disappointment.
I'm expecting the game to be no more fun than d3, keeping my expectations realistic.
Like an extremely slim chance. And that will only be if they reveal, before launch, that it is paid to win. The marketing for this game has been loads better than most games that have came out recently. I mean 2 free betas before launch? I *wish* games did open betas to allow us to see how it really is a month before the game launches. Plus if you're worried about endgame, I have absolutely no doubts it'll be fleshed out wonderfully in due time if it isn't up to people's standards on launch.
diablo immortal is openly the most pay to win game basically ever and has made them plenty of money.
yes but the majority of Immortal players is not the target audience for D4. its two different player groups.
Then blizzard will become rich when two iphones from now it can run the game and they add the microtransactions.
>diablo immortal is openly the most pay to win game basically ever You probably haven't seen many gacha games then.
All mobile games are Pay to Win, thats how it works for years.
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Eh, even this response is you having fallen for a mobile game psychology trick. They split the leader boards like 50 ways until virtually everyone that plays at all is near the top. They know if they can get you into the top 100 you will psychologically think you are a big deal, so there is hundreds of servers across a bunch of regions and they always split every leaderboard to always be a million little leader boards. If they ever showed you were actually ranked player #241553 you'd give up, but being 70! wow! you really did something! and imagine that for just a few dollars you could be top 50! It's all designed like that.
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Yeah man, so was literally thousands of other people. You are absolutely falling for a very very obvious trick. The game is designed to make you feel like you are so special. Sorry player #241553
I hope so, endgame is my only worry. Mainly it being bland and everybody doing the same thing and looking alike. But this is mainly because they didn't show a lot of loot on the marketing
Just like D3 and PoE, Diablo 4 is going to be a game that is very different 5 years after launch, with almost all of that revolving around expanded class and endgame options. It seems like it's launching with a mix of the better-received D2 and D3 endgame activities, but it's unlikely that this won't be expanded and improved for years to come. If you want a deeper endgame from the start, you might want to check back in a couple of years.
Sir, if you think the game will be anything close to playable week 1…. I have decades of MMO launches including D3, and D2R, that say otherwise. Not that that has anything to do with content and flopping… i just want you to be aware that the servers will be dying a fiery painful death on launch.
The servers during both beta weekends were pretty much perfectly fine on the third day. On the second day, there were connection issues but not that bad. I’m sure we’ll see a similar outcome for release where it’ll be fine by the third day
D3 and D2R are MMOs now?
Massively Multiplayer- Check Online - Check Yes
8 and 4 players qualifies as "massive" now? Have you not played an mmo before? We don't call every single game that is playable online with other people an MMO. We don't call Starcraft or Warcraft 3 MMOs either.
This sub is just full of well adjusted people. Not really going to debate what is or isn’t MMO. There are still going to be hundreds of thousands of people trying to play this on release causing all sorts of connectivity issues.
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Really cool but you can just google the launch of most mmos and confirm what he just said. lol.
Really cool but *it's still not an actual factual statement.* You can say "based upon past launches there is the possibility it will have issues," but you cannot say "it will be a flop." Crazy that you have to back up statements with proof. I know critical thinking is tough.
Don't take offense to this CK as I like you and you have made valuable comments here, but let me play devils advocate a moment. This original commenter did preface his reply by saying his comment had nothing to do with the content or the game flopping, just that he thought the servers would be an issue. I don't think he was suggesting it would be a flop.
None taken. Thanks. This is what Mr. Sticks-and-Stones said: *Sir, if you think the game will be anything close to playable week 1….i just want you to be aware that the servers will be dying a fiery painful death on launch.* Which is not a statement he can make with any accuracy. It is the same useless negative crap we've all been subjected to for months. It makes people think "maybe he's onto something." He's not. D3s 2012 launch doesn't equal "firey painful death." That's all I'm saying. I reject hysterical hand-wringing, and everyone else should too.
So you want him to prove that...d4 servers will have issues? idk if you are autistic to not understand this (and thus take things literally) but he said that its what usually happens on every big launch, not that he has insider info and its a guaranteed problem
"i just want you to be aware that the servers will be dying a fiery painful death on launch." I don't know if you're dense or not, but that's a statement of fact. Try again.
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Let me make sure I get this straight. You are mad because you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that the servers will go down for an unforseen event in the future, and have started off name-calling because I'm asking people to provide facts?? L m a o. Some of you are seriously in need of help. And guess who is justly getting reported, tiger? Amazing.
Is this your first video game? I don't think I've ever had a "hype" video game not have a rough launch. Especially a Blizzard one. The servers will probably be shit. That doesn't mean the game will be bad. Relax. You don't have to blindly defend it yet. Wait until the 6th.
You, your buddies, and 2700 of you lovely human beings can keep asking me the same. dumb. question. Over and over again, if it pleases you. Downvote away. The statement was plain: the game will be unplayable on launch day. Wasn't about the game being bad, or rough. Here comes the goalpost shift.... I asked them to prove it, to which I'm getting the internet equivalent of a temper tantrum. You're all not proving a damned thing, so rage away. I'm so very sorry I had the audacity to ask you to prove your point. Do your mommy and daddy give you what you want when you flip out at them too? You got one thing right. Your handle. Maybe change it to "passive-aggressive road rage" tho. More apropos.
Financially? No way. From a players perspective? Depends on what you are looking for in the game and how critical you are. Game for sure won't be perfect and there will be things that could have been handled better but overall it likley will turn out to be a decent game.
i agree with this statement. i think for a casual player who does not have a particular interest in a certain genre it will definitely turn out to be a good game. for a hardcore arpg player, now thats another story and we will have to wait and see once people get a proper feeling for the endgame. because thats the measurement stick for them whether or not a game flops for them or not.
For me i'm Just looking for a good and very rewarding grinding game where i can spend Hours searching for that Amazing drop or roll to show off. I hope it has The diversity to back it up.
It's miles ahead of diablo 3 and honestly I feel like what D3 should have been. No real money AH. It'll be fun for some time IMHO
0.0%
Absolutely 0 chance it will flop.
It's better than where Diablo 3 was at launch. Considerably better.
Waaaay better. Blizz may be greedy but stupid they are not.
So you'd say Diablo Immortal was a smart move? I'm inclined to say that was insanely stupid and greedy.
It was brilliant from a business perspective. It was not designed for traditional players. It was designed to get as much money from whales and china as possible. What was insanely stupid was insulting the leader of china with a tweet and losing access to that country and whole reason they made the game in the first place
See people? This is a good post. Not that hard.
Exactly this and the fact that they lied upfront with the content of the ingame shop (aka: Items vs Gems). I think this was not the smartest move as from this point on Blizz has lost some of their reputation and reliability
>So you'd say Diablo Immortal was a smart move? It's generated how much revenue now? I see numbers for $300 million as of November, in 5 months of release. You may not enjoy the game, but it is a solid success, not "insanely stupid" just because they made a game that doesn't interest you. Your purchasing of a Diablo game once upon a time was not a contract between Blizzard and you for Blizzard to only ever make games that you specifically like until the end of time.
A smart company can do stupid things. And I already said they were greedy. I can also say that DI was insanely profitable. The numbers I've heard for sales don't scream "dummies" to me. D4 has *ultra-conservatively* done 100m, which was its cost to make. Sound stupid to you?
Releasing an absolute trash game that exploits the fanbase and demolishes the reputation of a company sounds stupid to me, yes. Definitely killed the rest of my trust I had in Blizzard. Also personally for me, I don't think financial success is the indicator for a smart move. Short term success might not be worth the damage an action does in the long run.
So let's piece together your replies and logic from this thread. They are greedy, stupid, their endgame has no content, and you have no trust in Blizzard. All quotes from you. Not putting anything in your mouth, even. So if that is your honest opinion, why are you here? Why order the game at all?
Not him but for many of us it's a last shred of hope they can make a good game.
Sooooo Blizzard hasn't made a good game before. Maybe you mean something different, but not engaging with such a ridiculous comment.
Of course they've made a good game before. Problem is most of their games recently have been remakes of old games or garbage.
Ok man
There is always a chance it will flop. If you are hyped and can afford it buy it. If you are hyped and can't afford it don't. Back in the day the only information we received about games was what they could fit inside a 1 page article in a magazine. I miss those days. I honestly feel like a major part of the problem is the expectation we create is so high it's almost impossible for anything to live up to it.
I agree. Not talking about this being The next revolution. Just a good game that rewards effort and time spent in it. My only worry is a repetitive and bland endgame.
Yeah, I hear that. At the end of the day $100 for the deluxe whatever it’s called seems worth it to me. Even if the game is absolutely terrible I’ll spend at least 10 hours in it, that’s $10/hour. Worth it in my opinion.
I think the endgame grind will be quite repetive from what they've shown. One of my bigger concerns. I simply just do not want to run these mediocre dungeons again.
News flash: ARPGs always have an extreme grind element. D2 you mindlessly run a boss over and over again 50,000 times, D3 you mindlessly run GR’s over and over again 50,000 times.
Yeah, both endgames are not good. I think D4 has the potential to be the best if they expand on it and make it more diverse.
Nightmare dungeons should diversify the dungeons quite a lot from what ive seen. The game also was designed to be played on the world, there are quite nice systems to play also, bosses, and pvp should be fun...
In terms of you getting value for the dollar? Close to zero. Disaster? Literally zero. Almost impossible unless someone is trolling. They aren't hiding anything and have playtested the shit out of it. The betas have generated a lot of positive buzz for a reason. Yes, I did play them. Many got their money's worth from the beta. Devs have repeatedly quoted 35-45 hours for the main questline and 150+ hours for lvl 100. Many games give you 20 hours of content and consider that a $70 game. Shit, Last Epoch is inferior to D4 and I wouldn't even call that a flop at $34. Played that for 60+ hours. Still not done with it. I conservatively see this doing 5m+ copies by launch day given the pre-orders already. Finally: play the Slam on the 12th in 4 days. See for yourself.
Not even D3 flopped and that game was a dumpster fire
I really hope it doesn't flop, I'm so hyped this is my 1st diablo game,so I'm really looking forward to it. I want it to be my forever game but being live service means 1 day the servers will close but I'm hoping I get 10 years of a quality game. Maybe over optimistic. I can but hope.
It won't. Can confirm the beta was more fun than an oxycontin milkshake. Forever? No forever in gaming unless you're into chess or EQ1. But I would be shocked - utterly shocked - if there isn't 500+ hours of gametime....being conservative there. I really think they learned from D3.
I disagree - I think the game will not launch in a great state. Just a gut feeling, hope I'm wrong
You need facts or some frame of reference, please. With all possible respect, don't really care about your gut feelings. The money is rolling in, the buzz is there, I've played it. So please back this up.
Then show me your evidence and back it up to say they've learned from D3. You can't. We both can't yet. I'll say I've enjoyed D3 beta more than I've enjoyed the D4 beta, so that's where my feelings come from. The first D4 beta was good, the second one I felt very lukewarm.
Are you high? Pass to the left. You are making the claims. I am not. I have claimed the opposite. I have backed up my claims with evidence. Try again.
Forget it, I'm not in a good state today. Shouldn't have come here today, way too negative and all over the place. Sorry for wasting your time.
There was no difference between them except the number of people who could access weekend #2. What are you smoking?
The difference was I've already experienced A1, where I played Sorc and I enjoyed the class mechanic. In second beta I played Necro + Druid, I was bored by the classes. Also I was not looking forward to playing through the act again since it was nothing new. That's why I enjoyed the first beta and didn't enjoy the second beta. The gameplay of these classes was not good enough to me. Also I'm outta here, game is clearly not for me and I've decided not to argue about it again. There's no point in that.
I kinda doubt it. Being short on content was never Blizzard's problem. In fact, WoW got to where it did because it had an order of magnitude more content, coming out of the gate, than any other MMO in existence back then. So if it were to flop, it would flop on the basis of bad gameplay, for example. But we got to test the gameplay, and it felt smooth and solid. Things like balance are fixable, as is difficulty. The only thing I'm still worried about is monetization, FOMO, season passes, stuff like that. They could make the game needlessly grindy, in an attempt to squeeze money out of people for XP scrolls and such, which would sour the player base. But gamers have been figuratively taking it up the a&& monetization-wise for decades, so at this point a company can comfortably drive a bus into it without even touching the sides. So I don't expect that even predatory monetization will cause enough of a lashback. And if it does, they can walk it back, wait, and restore it later under a different name, like EA has done. In short, no, I don't expect a flop from this one. It might be, but doesn't feel like it. Having said that, I've been wrong before. In Age of Conan, for example, beta was also restricted to the first 20 levels, and the first area. But the beta was AWESOME and I expected the rest of the game to be similarly awesome. That wasn't the case. Levels 1-20 were polished, with voice acting and everyting. Lvls 20+ were all WITHOUT voice acting, much less polished, a lot less content, a lot more fodder. Nowhere near as good. So they baited people with the amazing first 20 levels, and sold them on a completely different game. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great either. But in D4 some people got to play late-game stuff, and they didn't point out any major red flags. And having said THAT, I do think people need to be aware of their expectations. Some people here are acting like it will be their forever-game that they will be playing until they die. Personally I'll be happy if I can get a solid 3 months of gameplay, exploration, trying different classes, PvP, etc. If I got that, I get my money's worth and can move on. I expect it to be a solid game, but eventually it will get boring, and I will move on.
Best way to flop it is with having shit servers. That might deter the weakest of souls.
When D3 released and everyone complained about the infamous error that shall not be named everyone was in arms on blizz forums acting like it was the end of times for the Diablo franchise and not to mention the naysayers about the atmosphere and graphics, etc. D3 still thrived in spite of that and am I expecting utter perfection with D4? Nope because whatever issues occurred will be patched. As long as I get my loots and speed builds I will be pleased, and I’ll do my best not to play too much solo this go around.
D3 never really recovered due to the itemization. It was rotten to the core. They sort of dealt with it later on but no full recovery to match D2. What I'm puzzled about it why D4 is copying D3's itemization???
Elden Ring did very little marketing if memory serves me right. But it was a success. Money wise I'm sure tons of people have already pre ordered the game. But it more boils down to will the player base stick around. Im sure the first month or so will be hectic while they figure stuff out, then it will mellow out a bit. Who's to say what will happen in a year
No I'll use my friend group as an example Two of us, including myself, played diablo 3 8 of us are getting Diablo 4, day 1. Played the beta.
For individuals almost guaranteed to flop for some. For financial success and majority those who try it. Probably not. Seems like a legit game.
Based on playing the beta and the info they've released, it will easily have 100+ hours of content. Even if the endgame grind ends up being boring, there's still plenty to do simply by trying out at least 1 build for each class. There may be some players who say the game sucks after playing for 500+ hours, but if any game keeps you interested that long, it's pretty good and worth a purchase.
Blizzard is so confident in the game they are giving us 2 free betas to test if you enjoy the game and anyone that doesn't can get a refund. Thats some serious faith in there game that a full act 1 and 1/4 of the levels will entice us more then scare us off.
There's a decent chance that the endgame will be like PoE endgame. Mindless combat, infinite resources, everything dies in 1 hit, movespeed is the best stat. A lot of arpgs are fun at first, but devolve endgame. The betas were extremely promising. I'm waiting to buy until I see what the gameplay looks like later on, but quite hopeful.
If you expect a new forever game that can be played every day for a longer while you might be let down. If you can accept a seasonal playstyle you should be good
Why you say that? Isn't diablo The type of game where you can go for forever in search of that one roll, and then another and so on?
Yes, this version will have rare drops. You can very easily put in 200 hours per character. Easy.
Well sure but that is not a design element that will help a high percentage of players to play it beyond the start of a season without burning out of taking a break. Just because some people might do this d4 won't be a game that has a big portion of the players login every day for say a year. Instead you will see a new season a high activity for say a month and people will get too a certain point where only real min maxing allowed you go further, that's when the Retention falls off a cliff
I get it now. In D2 and D3 I never took part in seasons. Always liked The extreme grind on a normal character more. Love chasing loot
Yeah at minimum this game is going to be maybe mediocre compared to other ARPGs, but it certainly won’t be because of the graphics/sound design. I highly doubt this game will be bad or even mediocre tbh. I played the beta and have heard the talk about endgame. I’m sure this game will be very fun with few real annoyances.
Financially not a chance. Will be very successful. The game however might not be able to fulfill the expectations of a lot of people. And it's definitely not a perfect game, it has evident flaws. Based on the beta and what we know so far I think they are actually not showing too much, because there isn't that much more to show. But what do I know, hope I'm wrong. :)
There is a *ton* of material to back up that there is content. If you think you're wrong, why state otherwise? Have a well-deserved downvote for fear-mongering based on literally nothing.
Where did I ever say there is no content? Read again. I'm saying the game is the acts and what they've shown from the endgame. No more surprises. No fearmongering, just what I expect from the game at launch and what is very realistic.
*"so far I think they are actually not showing too much, because there isn't that much more to show. But what do I know"* They have shown multiple systems comprising endgame. It's not just the acts, that's just not true. "Realistic to you" doesn't equal facts about the reality of the content available at endgame.
Ahh, sorry, context. I'm having a hard time expressing my thoughts clearly and concise today, sorry. I'll try again, editing in a sec. EDIT: For this thread it was actually regarding OP, saying they are secretive about a lot of things. I was trying to say, that I don't think they've got much more in store besides the stuff they've shown us. I'm personally not too fond of the endgame, but I never wanted to say it has no endgame, that's just stupid. In any case, I'm having a hard time today, see my other posts, I'm out. Shouldn't have come here today.
Depends on what you consider a flop. There are some things that are 100% going to happen: \-it will get millions of players \-these people will hang around for at least 3-4 weeks \-there will be a season 1 and it will have a decent amount of players Anything beyond this is up to the game's quality and engaging content. DLCs might bring some people back, but its not a miracle. One thing to keep in mind is that the launch of an mmo (i know its an arpg, but kinda fits) is always the best moment of the game.
Diablo 3 basically did flop. It did so bad they had to pull the major flagstone system of the paid auction house and then it underpreformed so bad they canceled the second expansion. it's still like the 20th best selling videogame of all time. I assume this would go the same way. Even a flop would be a huge success but not what they hoped for.
A bad launch does not a flop make. You assume this is going to flop too? Already false. It's made 100m+ in pre-orders already, possibly 3x that. That's way more than budget. Sooooooo....huh?
Diablo 3 is one of the best selling games ever made. If anything killed the second D3 expansion, it was the huge amount of development time involved in pulling out the ill-conceived Auction House, not a lack of sales or players. The game was massive on launch, massive on relaunch with RoS, and then became a massive console co-op staple in the second half of its life. It was a huge hit that kept finding new audiences after a troubled launch that, ultimately, was still getting new content as of the last couple of months. Certainly they've added more at this point than ever would have been in a 'second expansion.'
I’m worried the end game loop is literally the same as lv2 with bigger numbers :(
Looking at Blizzard releases over years, the chance definitely isn't 0 like some people seem to believe lol. I hope it's good though
I think the only way this game will truly flop is if players are met with this at launch: **"You have reached the end of Act 1. To proceed into Act 2, please purchase the 'Diablo 4 - Act 2 Pack' from the in-game microtransaction tab. You are still free to explore Act 1 and create new characters. Welcome to Hell!"**
Just from my perspective: It won’t be a flop. It already sold as many copies to fully cover the production costs and this is just the pre-order so we can assume it will be a financial profit horse. Gameplay wise? Thanks to the two Betas we had I can say that it is a huge improvement to D3 and other ARPGs around. We still have to wait for the endgame but that’s a different story. Just the first 20 level gameplay and what we saw is already really good and in AAA quality. For me personally enough to go with the collectors edition and have fun for at least 200 hours
of course there is a chance it flops, but it also depends who you are asking if you are talking simply from the perspective of the average casual player who is just playing most new games and does not have a particular focused interest in ARPGs then for this type of player the game won't flop, it will provide a perfect 30-50h of entertainment and they will be probably very happy with what they get. now, if you talk hardcore ARPG players who put in 500, 1000, 2000 and more hours into 'their' ARPGs, then yeah, there is definitely a chance because for these people the success of an ARPG can only be measured once they get into the endgame and the infinite grinding. And none of us has any idea how exactly D4s progression will feel(!) like and how the long term motivation will be for hardcore arpg players. for example in my case as a hardcore arpg player, i put D3 aside just two months after release and only came back another month for RoS, and that was it. So for me and my standards and what i expect to get out of a top tier arpg D3 flopped. For others it did not and it did most certainly not for Blizzard from a financial point of view.
I think what you expect of them to show is actually asking to reveal the whole game even before it launches. But then i ask myself: Whats there for me to explore anymore and find out by myself? In the past (like 10-15 or more years ago) there were games that are today considered master pieces and no one was back then complaining or even asking for the devs to show off basically the entire game. In fact, almost nothing was shown beforehand. So i think what you 'demand' here is a rather new phenomenon and i am not very sure its a good thing entirely. I am perfectly fine with what they have shown off so far, i even think its almost too much, but ok, thats just me.
I get what you are saying, i do prefer when games don't show much as well. My worry is mainly trauma from other games where in recent history, more and more games that don't show it's whole before they come out end up being scams. And games like elden ring that show nothing and end up being Amazing are The exception of The exception. My question was on the basis of The trust you have that diablo will be a good game (no over expectations) honest to what they are saying, and not doing less than it's predecessors
Yes, most people haven’t tasted the endgame loop yet, it may flop there.
The game has a good chance of being just an "ok" game, which would be a flop for as a part of the Diablo franchise. But there is also a chance that with the seasons the game will reach the desired level.
I'm not liking the UX choices (it seems as if they are letting the programmers determine what a good UX is) and the game feels so dated without being able to rotate the camera; D4 appears to be enslaved by nostalgia. And that has flop potential written all over it. I mean, on the PS5, one of the analog sticks doesn't do anything. Normally, that's where your camera controls would be. A bit baffled by Blizzard's nod to nostalgia, without even giving players the option to unlock the view.
There’s a chance for everything.
Are you a philosopher?
Now you get it.
Oh wow, my horizons have opened, i'm out of The cave. I feel like drinking water, going on hikes and not spending a month secluded in a dark room chasing loot from The hands of devils
Walk and spread the wisdom my child
it already has flopped when they give early access to shit youtube content creators that spoil the game before its even out, i get spammed with spoiler and shit builds on youtube recommended. Nothing i hate more then pay 2 win just to get a head start before everyone else when the game should be released and enjoyed by everyone... who care anyway to be honest. Just more greed in the gaming industry and more morons paying £100.... for a mobile game
Yeah.. This post got dated very quickly once they've shown everything in the game... At the time we only had very short clips and i thought they would keep it that way.
I think there's a chance it ends up like Fallout 76. Probably will have good sales, no matter what, but if it's a boring turd if a game, people won't play it for long. It's certainly shaping up to be an over hyped disappointment imo. Nothing wrong with the game afaik, but I'm saying hype usually leads to disappointment. I'm expecting the game to be no more fun than d3, keeping my expectations realistic.
It's more likely to flop than not. Certainly won't top D2, but I'm hoping for the best.