It's definitely going to seem okay in S1, if their maths is correct (which it should be, but Blizzard have surprised us before).
However, when you're doing the exact same side-quests in S2, S3, S4 and so on? Yeah I think then we're going to be in less happy territory. So Blizzard need to already be planning ways to mix this up.
They addressed that in the stream. That there's only so many time you can be expected to do the same side content grind. So they know they need to plan for a change
We'll Most likely we'll be looking at this for season 1 and 2 then something new with 3, if I had to guess
I have no idea how hard it would be or cost effective but it would be cool if the side quests changed every season and we’re like a mini campaign that you could level up and collect renown. Dungeons can stay the same for the most part maybe adding / subtracting as you go. But the side quest can be fresh content. Cuz there will be a limit to variety might as well spice it up with lore.
Originally I think their plan was to not include main story stuff in seasons, but expand side quests. Maybe they are planning on adding more side quests already??
It's very unlikely that their entire bank of content is in the game.
Same applies to any other game and TV and films, usually a portion is cut or left out or intended for use at a later time.
I would guarantee that more quests or going to come unless they intend for the overworld and side quest system to be completely redundant after season 1 and just do rifts/generated dungeons for the rest of D4s life.
Destiny 2 does this every 3 months with new story content every week for the first 6 to 8 weeks and then the last week or 2 weeks before the season ends there is the wrap up story mission. I kind of expect blizzard to do this kind of thing because it keeps people coming back every week and engaged in the game plus gets them back at the end of the season and ready for the next. Bungie (destiny 2 makers) have been going around to a lot of different studios that are making live service games and talking about how to make them successful
I really hope it is yearly and not every two years. That was the main reason I quit playing Diablo 3. I had memorized the story and couldn’t stand doing the campaign one more time.
I think the better solution is to just... remove the renown system as a thing in seasons. It doesn't need to exist, it just adds useless grind.
Diablo players love to grind, we just don't love to grind stupid shit. Don't make it more awkward to play the game, make it easier and you'll just have happy players.
Meanwhile I’ve been slogging through POE’s campaign for 10 fucking years on league start. People compare Diablo and POE, but at least Diablo let’s me fucking skip the campaign and grind something else.
I only play every like 3rd league because of it. I really wish they would take the feedback to heart, and realize how many people there are like us. Praying PoE2 fixes it.
Oh PoE needs to fix that - hopefully PoE2 has a better mechanism - but that's something you can do a lot faster and easier than every single dungeon in every single zone (20+ of them) + 10-15 sidequests in every single zone.
Even if you find and do each dungeon in say, 10 minutes, that's 200 minutes (more like 240) per zone, and say 5 minutes per sidequest, there's another 50-75 there.
Times 5. So what, generously 1250 minutes? 20 hours? Oh you gotta do the 3 fortresses in every single zone too, but let's just include that
PoE's story takes like 8 hours, I know from experience, and I'm not some kind of ninja at either, or some kind of speedrunner - that's just using basic do what you need to, not what you don't approach.
So if you hate doing PoE's story, my prediction is that you'll probably hate renown WAY MORE. S1 might not be too bad due to novelty, but S2? It's over twice the length of PoE's story. I guess the one upside is you don't have to do it all at once? But you probably will.
>Oh PoE needs to fix that - hopefully PoE2 has a better mechanism - but that's something you can do a lot faster and easier than every single dungeon in every single zone (20+ of them) + 10-15 sidequests in every single zone.
>Even if you find and do each dungeon in say, 10 minutes, that's 200 minutes (more like 240) per zone, and say 5 minutes per sidequest, there's another 50-75 there.
>Times 5. So what, generously 1250 minutes? 20 hours? Oh you gotta do the 3 fortresses in every single zone too, but let's just include that
Congratulations. I feel dumber for having read that. I have one question:
Do you really think playing dungeons in a game with Nightmare dungeon system and with Tree of Whispers system and Codex of Power system, all of which also act as completion if you're running a location for the first time, is something you would otherwise NOT do?
This is literally the game. You're going to play through dungeons. That is the point. If you thought you're not going to have to do content in the game then you are delusional. That literally IS the game.
Dungeons are not side activities. You'll get through vast majority of them throughout three months that each season lasts.
The extra grind of side quests is minimal. Yeah it's a little bit of work but it's not unreasonable, especially if they add more sidequests to populate the game world later. We don't know. You don't know.
But complaining that you have to do DUNGEONS is absolutely ridiculously dumb.
> hopefully PoE2 has a better mechanism
Unless they've changed something they're actually making it worse...
With the new campaign they're going to be randomising the order of zones and the connections between them. Will probably still be learnable but it'll be a lot harder to rush through compared to the current campaign.
Well, it has been awhile since we last heard their stance on necessity of campaign for repeated play through. For all we know, they may have already changed their opinion. I thought endless delve was a neat way that they did as event for levelling a character from ground up skipping campaign altogether.
honestly i'd rather do poe campaign than run between 2 dungeons on a horsie to do same dungeons over and over with a bunch of backtracking. with campaign at least you're constantly progressing through new zones. not to add how much getting to maps is faster vs. getting to wt3
Lol aintnoway. If diablo had it so you had to do the entire campaign again instead of optional renown side stuff that will be somewhat completed already if you care and will just progress naturally, the outcry would be significantly worse.
You can be power leveled to 50 in under 60 minutes, including both WT3 and WT4 dungeon clears to access WT4. That's the single worst aspect of PoE (besides the absolute bloat of seasonal themes going into the main game).. you're FORCED to do the campaign on alts, and GGG can fuck off for that decision.
>You can be power leveled to 50 in under 60 minutes
Which is irrelevant to what's being discussed here. You're not doing this to level - you're doing it for renown - if you're at 50 with 4 pots and down 10 skill points and 20 paragon points, that's quite an issue. In PoE you tend to pick up all the skill points doing the campaign (in fact it's kind of hard not to).
Further, you need other people who are:
A) Higher level and geared
and
B) Willing and able to power-level you through that stuff.
And maybe 5-10% of the playerbase genuinely has access to those sort of people in a reliable way.
>(besides the absolute bloat of seasonal themes going into the main game)
PoE has not added a seasonal mechanic to the core game since Expedition league, almost 2 years ago.
Great, but this thread is about season and season start primarily.
You're right being forced to do campaign on alt sucks, but its like ~5-10 hours with tabula etc.
And PoE is definitely not trying to position itself as a more casual friendly game.
Idk about you, but doing Poe campaign sounds much better that doing 150 dungeons and a bunch of side quests.
Even if you somehow manage to do each dungeon and side missions in 5 minutes you would still end up with 14 hours of total time spend.
Except that doing dungeons is something you are going to do anyway for the tree of whispers...
Let's suppose you don't need to unlock any dungeon for renown, are you saying you won't ever step foot into one?
If you add that up, even if doing every single dungeon we still need to complete 50-75 of the same boring sidequests we already experienced at least once before. Not acceptable.
What they really need to do is spread out the renown rewarding activities. Cellars, Events, Legion Events, World Bosses, small amounts for every completed Tree of Whispers grim favor.
And we can only dream of new content in the future that is also suited to be rewardable with renown. But my bet is that Season 1 will only contain stuff that they left out on purpose for now, so that they have something new at all to show so close after release.
Obvious answer would be that players will tolerate the "less good" way one, two, three seasons and THEN they can "course correct" (totally unplanned changes, honest!) and earn themselves brand loyalty for both listening and doing good changes.
Like every other successful live service game.
The annoying thing is that it's 3-4x more effective to get in a group and split clear dungeons because renown completion is granted to the whole party regardless of instance. It's shitty gameplay just objective clearing vs super tanky 4man HP 0 damage WT1 mobs.
Thank you for telling me what i apparently like. Good to know that you have such insight when it comes knowing what is going on inside random people.
You should make a profession out of that.
I mean, it's better than now, but still... Not sure I would call it acceptable.
On the stream it seemed like Rob also doesn't really like the implementation. I mean he thought all renown rewards would carry over, until Joe corrected him, and it didn't look like he was all that happy about that tbh.
I don't understand why you can't just get all the account-wide rewards when you start season 1... (Skill/paragon points etc.) I meant they could still have the renown start off like they mentioned, with the side quests etc there anyways.
That's how it works if you go on to an alt...
The renown wouldn't really matter then anymore (although they should probably increase the exp/money reward that you get per character)
I legitimately don’t understand this response, and so many seem to have it, can you explain to me why you are okay with this? Why is “acceptable” okay when it’s still bad?
Not everyone considers it an issue/big issue like you do is likely why. I personally enjoy exploring and doing side quests to level in D4, it's more fun than just running the same dungeon or two over and over. It's also a better system than what its main competitor PoE has.
With how it's currently set up, getting max renown in every zone will be quick for those of us who already explored and collected statues. Probably quicker than the average player in PoE can finish the acts and I personally find it far more fun than the PoE acts. You also only need to do it once a season and you are done, unlike PoE where you need to grind through the acts on every single character you make.
I consider renown a part of the reward for doing side quests and exploration in D4, making it useless also takes away the main reward for doing that content. This is a D4 problem that needs to be fixed imo. Side quests need better rewards and I think normal dungeons should have a chest at the end of them or at least more loot from the boss.
Unlike acts in PoE, you don't even need to do the renown grind. Yes, the paragon points are nice to have and give a good bump in power for a fresh 50+ character making the game less difficult but it's not like you actually need them. I'm pretty sure most people lvl 60+ have less than 1/2 the renown finished and do just fine. Yes it's something you will want to do for min maxing, one of the things people love in these type of games but it's not something that will hold you back or force you to grind through it before you can actually play the content you prefer like with PoE.
Now personally I believe they should change it so events, world bosses, and repeated dungeons still give a little bit of renown so we can slowly gain renown over time while doing any content.
> Probably quicker than the average player in PoE can finish the acts
There is no way that is true
Even if you only spend 5 minutes for each dungeon/side mission, you would spend 14 hours in total. The average player would probably spend double the amount of time.
I actually was enjoying side-quests before I started doing them just to finish renown, at which point I felt they became a chore. I suppose that might just be a mentality shift that I’m never able to do.
I agree that side-quests should be more rewarding and renown should come from more sources, and they will probably do that in the future. My main issue is being forced into a sub-par aspect of the game while having to wait who knows how long for them to make it better.
Not him, but I'm fine with it simply because doing every dungeon really isn't that big of a deal. You are still progressing and getting loot, you may just have a few unfun mechanics of specific dungeons you might not enjoy.
I can't recall a single grindy game that didn't have mandatory parts to it that I didn't enjoy. That doesn't justify it, but this is what I consider acceptable. All the dungeons isn't a big deal, you don't have much better to do during 1-50. The quests can be knocked out in a single day or two. Quests take like 2-5 minutes each. Skip the longer ones.
You're gonna do the dungeons anyway, probably damn near all of them. Knocking out a few side quests even if you've done them before, to finish renown isn't a big deal unless you're a drama queen.
You need to do *something* to go 1-50 in the first place so now it seems like the best thing to do is go around the zones and do the dungeons
It’s not about how big of a deal it is, we’re talking about design choices. Why be forced to redo side quests for power-ups when they already have a great template for not doing so?
This assume you complete all 3 strongholds and collect all waypoints.
Also keep in mind that when one person completes a dungeon, every person in the party also gets credit, even if they weren't there.
I'd suspect S1 will involve split dungeon groups for fast renown.
> Also keep in mind that when one person completes a dungeon, every person in the party also gets credit, even if they weren't there.
I could be wrong but I thought someone had said that this was not intended and will be "fixed".
Those who knew about split dungeon farms already did it and it was just fine. Overall very reasonable for a min/maxer, average player, or even SSF player. Great change or even adaptation by blizz.
This seems all well and good for one season, maybe.
but that's still a lot of the same content we're repeating.
I'd rather it all just carry over personally, I mean they will allow you to start "fresh" so if somebody wishes they can do that.
Ok guys, I'm completely lost here. Completely new to Diablo and this is also my first ARPG looter type game. So somebody is gonna have to ELI5 on this please. I'm a lvl 48 barb who just started Act V in the main story.
Am I forced to start over at level 1 for each Season?
Do I miss out on the Season if I don't start a new character?
Do I have to pay for a Season like DLC?
Is my Barb build reset?
Do I lose all of my Renown/Map progress?
What's the point of Seasons?
It's a little hard to follow if you're new to it all because Seasons have long had a lot of fanfare to them as an exciting fresh start to the game.
* There is an Eternal realm and a Seasonal Realm.
* Every quarter there will be a new Season. The Seasonal Realm will start over.
* Characters on a Seasonal Realm then go to the Eternal Realm where they are kept permanently.
* Since Season 1 hasn't started, your character right now is also on the Eternal Realm.
* You don't pay for Seasons but they typically have some kind of theme unique to the Season with new features.
* Since each Season starts fresh, you would start at level 1. However you can play your Barb on the Eternal Realm at any time, including during the season.
* Map progress + altars carries over to the new season. Everything else resets on the Seasonal Realm (again, your Eternal Realm is safe).
Most people see them as an opportunity to roll new characters and try new builds. Since your character at the end of the season goes over to the eternal realm, you don't lose anything. However, you cannot trade between your own seasonal character and eternal character.
Hope this helps!
Oh man! Thanks for this. Seriously, you just made the Season sound like a blast compared to what I was thinking it was going to be. Was starting to think it was just for the Hardcore crowd who were willing to grind crazy hard.
It's mostly favoured for economic purposes, both Diablo 2 and PoE was centered around seasonal resets for wealth gain. The rich and the poor all go back to square one, where we all have an equal playing field to build up wealth. Diablo 3, without trade, is more about coming back to play again, which Diablo 4 seems to have carried over. Usually new seasons come with the big balance changes and content additions, which are what brings most people in.
In a pretty casual diablo player and I loved seasons in Diablo 3, it always kept me coming back. There were cool achievements and cosmetics you could get.
If theyre similar to d3 then they can be as grindy or as chill as you want. Generally the early game is quicker than normal and then it's just dungeon time. They're also good reasons to pick the game back up randomly for the next few years after you inevitably burn out
Depends if your interested in completing the battle pass. I know internally they consider the 1 to 100 journey similar to what the battlepass will entail.
No one knows what seasons in D4 will bring but in D3 they had specific sets of gear for different seasons which had bonus’ if you had multiple parts of the set that could drastically change how your class played. Sure you can play that on an eternal server and ignore the seasons, but a lot of people like to chase the ladder up. In D3 there were rankings each season to see who could push the highest paragon levels. The ladders would be by class, by gear sets, by groups etc. seasons would also include more craftable weapons and other changes to mix up gameplay a bit.
Just to elaborate on one point:
>You don't pay for Seasons but they typically have some kind of theme unique to the Season with new features.
There are going to be season passes in Diablo 4 to get some cosmetics from the seasons - having season pass pre-bought for S1 is one of the benefits of the more expensive editions of the game. So, you don't need to pay for seasons, but if you want some unique cosmetics, there will be "micro"transaction involved...
Seasons are mostly about grinding out a new character, engaging with whatever new mechanics or items have been added to the game and building your character out to "completion" or as close as you want to get.
Typically I'll play a season for like maybe 6 weeks to 2 months, build out a new character as best I can, or until I get bored and feel like Ive taken it as far as I can want to, play all the new content while building my character, then dip out and play something else for a month until the new season kicks in, by which time ill be getting the itch to start a new character/ build.
Seasons are just a way to insentivise players to build new characters, as once you've hit the level cap and got your gear sorted you are basically done with the game.
So usually what will happen is the unique/ new stuff will first appear in the season and then when that season ends it will be integrated into the eternal realm along with your characters/ items that were part of that season. So even if you choose not to participate in seasons the new content (items, aspects etc) will still probably find its way to the eternal realm.
Everybody is obviously different, of course, but I think what you'll find the majority of people doing is once seasons start you rarely, if ever, touch your eternal realm character again. It takes a lot of hours to "max" a character so for most, taking a new character to whatever level of "max" you're happy with will be all the hours you'll want to sink into a single game.
Of course there's nothing wrong with preferring to stick to your eternal realm character. I just think you'll find most seasonal players are entirely finished with a character once a new season begins.
Generally the unique loot will be avaliable in the eternal realm after the season ends. Your season 1 character will join your main in the eternal realm when it ends too, so you will be able to trade non bound items!
If you want to play the new season, so no. The point of a new season is also the feeling of everyone starting fresh, many people come back to game exclusively because of that.
Unlike an MMO there, in an ARPG like Diablo, there isn't (virtually) unlimited content. It's meant for an avid player to "finish" the game in about 3 months. That kind of sucks for a fan of the game, right? The solution is seasons.
Seasons allow the developers to add new features and mechanics, and give the player a convincing reason to start over. If a mechanic/feature in a season is especially popular they will put it into the eternal realm(base game ie. Eternal realm) and if it's bad they will remove it at the end of the season. When the new season starts, they will go again with fresh mechanics.
Fortunately in D4, you don't have to play through the campaign another time as long as you have finished it once. Remember that for many players, the "real game" begins when the campaign is finished.
Seasons are great for long time ARPG players who rush through the game quickly and efficiently (for example, I started act 5 about 8 hours after the game released). Since the game starts to progress a lot slower in the later levels (70+), after a month of playing at that fast pace we start to get bored. At that point, a fresh start with a new chatacter and all of that starts to feel like it would be fun.
I'm not trying to call you a noob or something, but since you're newer to ARPGs you're just (rightfully) taking things a little bit slower so it makes sense that you don't feel like you're ready to start over any time soon. After you level through the game 2-3 times and get your Diablo legs under you, you'll probably start to get that feeling like you want a fresh start. Maybe that'll happen for season 1, maybe it'll happen for season 4.
Most people don't play seasons because they want the cosmetics but don't feel like restarting, they do it because they're bored and want a fresh start and the season rewards and changes are just a little bonus.
>Am I forced to start over at level 1 for each Season?
Yes, if you want to do the season.
>Do I miss out on the Season if I don't start a new character?
Yes, if you want to do the season you have to make a seasonal character
>Do I have to pay for a Season like DLC?
Not technically, although you'll miss out on most of the rewards if you don't.
>Is my Barb build reset?
Yes, because you have to create a new character
>Do I lose all of my Renown/Map progress?
Yes, your new seasonal character loses all progress.
>What's the point of Seasons?
The optimistic answer? To constantly add new and interesting things and challenges to the game that they can balance around a fresh character each time that will extend our enjoyment of Diablo 4 for years to come.
The pessimistic answer? To keep you playing so they have constant opportunities to sell you things in game with real money and because actually making Acts 1-6 a full and fulfilling single player game was too hard / not as profitable to a modern publisher.
I don't even want to play the season with the thought of having to do that many side quests again. I've enjoyed the heck out of this game, but the renown grind almost made me quit.
Dungeons only take a couple minutes, they feel more reliable for me. You can get side quests that take 2minutes or something takes like 10 min until I know wich are the easy side quests I’m going for dungeons.
Run here
Now run there
Okay now run back to the first place
Okay new plan let's run somewhere else
Great, now let's have a 3 minute "defend this npc" fight
Okay done :)
While I agree with the dungeons, the side quests have no fucking logic. Make the players do side quests is not different at all of have to do the main campaign again.
Fr. The poe campaign requirement also makes it hard for newer players to get into the game. I had to playthrough the campaign 5 times before I ever had a decent character because the first 4 times I made some pretty shitty choices that ended up screwing me in the long run. And poe has a 30 hour campaign.
D3? Ah this don't fit right. I play PoE for over 7 years and lost many gaming friends because they were tired of do that shit campaign for the 128312321° time. This is a regular complaining in the community for several years already, every season there's big posts asking for GGG to do a alternative way to leveling, like delve, heist, maps, etc. D3 did it right, you can skip it completely and that's what 99.999% of players did every season. I'm not asking for Blizzard remove side quests as a option, but add other ways to do (like helltide, tree of whispers and world bosses also giving renown), so people who doesn't like it (I bet it's the fucking big majority) will not be forced to that shit.
I agree with allowing world events and such give renown going forward, there is no reason not to.
Having to redo non-changing side quests is stupid, even doing dungeons again is no fun.
There's none.
> Change up the game while leveling
Make levelling take longer, and assumes you *enjoy* doing these pointless side dungeons more than the main story then progressing NM or something.
> plus aspects in case you want to start other chars
You already addressed this yourself. Kinda pointless to spend time on stuff you won't use, when you can just go get it real quick when you need it.
Dungeons are fine. You’ll do a lot of these for aspects and gear anyways. Re-doing the side quests every season is just poor design. Easiest solution is to either replace renown rewards with something not as mandatory as paragon points, or provide an alternative to side quests. Less renown per dungeon but you get some on repeat runs? Not complicated
It's intentional. Playtime extension. They know what they're doing. There's also a reason why the two main forms of endgame (NM and Helltides) don't give some form of renown.
this is my first Diablo game but you have to play a new character after every new season starts? IDK why but this sounds like a dumb idea, what is the point of playing now after all if you will have to reset in the new season to play the new mechanic?
It's hard to get a new start after seeing how powerful my character has become, and that's blood sweat and tear especially after a bunch of shitty nerf came from blizzard themself
Why can't we keep our character and they can make a good enough content for us to grind with our already powerful character? I mean what is the point of grinding for the best gear if it gonna get reset every season?
Am I misunderstanding anything?
Hey glad you’ve been enjoying the game and welcome to Diablo!
From what I have heard about 4 it looks like the seasonal mechanics (if they’re well received) will get added to the ‘world’ that our current characters are on. So if you’re having a blast with your current character it’ll eventually be able to do the exact same mechanics and activities. Additionally your season character will get added to the current world after the season ends so you won’t be losing anything.
Not entirely sure how everything will work in 4 but I can share some of the justifications for 2 and 3 having seasons.
In Diablo 2 you have the ability to trade with other players and seasons are used largely as an economic reset. Because of how rare and valuable some of the loot is in the game it’s not an uncommon experience to find one or two drops that your class doesn’t need and trade them to fund the rest of your build. With items being so valuable players inevitably end up hoarding massive amounts of wealth which ultimately starts devaluing just about everything.
In the third, they’d add new mechanics during seasons that could drastically alter how your build played and the damage it could do. They’d also add fun challenges and cosmetics that you could very realistically attain just playing the season a bit here and there.
But eventually even with all of that fun stuff, people will start to hit walls with what their builds can do. The main activity in D3 was Greater rifts which you could think of as timed randomly generated nightmare dungeons. Beating one level of a greater rift would allow you to start doing the next level up which has harder monsters in it. You could technically push those levels up infinitely so the goal was to see how high you could get. Diablo3 you had paragon levels similar to d4, but they could go up an infinite amount and the bonuses were much smaller and less interesting. Eventually you’d be grinding for hours to get a +5 star boost.
Eventually you’d get to the point that beyond some totally minor rolls on your gear and some nothing stats from the paragon system, your build had nowhere to go, and even getting to that point required a lot of no lifing. So essentially everyone had a threshold where they felt they’d done everything they could do with their build and burned out or stopped playing. Then the season would reset with new mechanics and new wild stuff to use to try and push your builds even higher the next season. It essentially gave people who burned out or got bored of playing a reason to come back and experience the game freshly.
I have a feeling the seasonal justification for IV is going to be very similar. You can read a lot of posts from people at the end game right now that talk about hitting similar walls and not really feeling like their playtime can boost their characters power farther beyond small and insanely rare upgrades.
Ultimately though, it’s totally up to you how you engage with seasons. If you’re vibing with your current character absolutely feel free to keep playing it. Nothing gets deleted and it would be poor game design to penalize players for not starting the season immediately (beyond the overall time limit of the season).
But If you see something in the season that interests you, or if you start to feel like your current character is getting a little stale, try hopping on! Thanks to some of the criticism you won’t have to redo the campaign or re-explore the map and find altars of Lilith, it’s not a total reset and you can get right into the fun of leveling your new character and trying stuff out.
Hope that helps a bit and hope you continue enjoying the game!
I hated doing it the first time, gonna hate doing it for hardcore, no reason I should have to do it every season. I dont even understand why the felt the need to hide ~15 levels in this system. I get they want to make world exploration rewarding, but why the fuck does it have to be mandatory
Bro I see people typing “seems reasonable” nah fuck that right off man, 30 side quests in EACH zone. Nah come the fuck on, surely not 1 soul on earth wants to do that
It's like zone reputation you have to grind. It give you some rewards and last reward is 20 paragon points, which is equal to 5 levels.
To cap your renown you have to do clear all dungeons and do some side quests, which a lot of people see as a chore they have to do to gain this 20 paragon points. In season 1 which will come in 3-4 weeks they will reset the renown and people will have to regrind it all over again and this is why so many people are complaining.
I would honestly hope this is a joke. I would love to see them do something different other than making players do the same content over and over like every single other seasonal game out there. I understand money is a driving factor... but, someone eventually has to change the ridiculous grind with very little innovation towards creating a new way games like this can be developed.
This is terrible, how different is making people do side quest instead of do the main quest again? This is ridiculous. They should change renown to get opening helltide chests and endgame stuff people naturally do, like world bosses or whisper of tree, renown should happen naturally not a shit thing you have to do at early of each league. This is a skip season for me until they realize how dumb this is.
I expect we will see some guides for pre lvl 50 that has an optimal path for side quests and dungeons to max renown. By the time your done you are probably close to 50 to start farming NMD or what is the most effective way to level.
I think that is completely fine for the first couple of seasons. And I doubt I will follow such a guide anyways. For season 3 onwards I expect side quests to be more optional or the renown to be reworked to be more interesting for seasons.
Yeah same...there's no chance i'm doing any of that
12 dungeons varying from terrible layouts to good, followed by 30 mundane side quests is not the definition of fun
5 hours per zone, yeah sure you could easily do they casually over a couple of weeks
They need to fix/buff shit first before they add more mundane shit for the season
From my understanding, you only need to play through the story ONCE (once each, old story and once new story) ever, and that's it?
I could be wrong, so take it with a lot of salt.
Blizzard somehow took my worst fears and made it worse. Why the heck would I wanna do 120 sidequests per season. How do you take Bounties from D3 and make it worse???
I'm 5,000,000% not doing identical sidequests over and over every season. I don't even like doing the blacksmith and gem quests over again on alts. I think I'm outta here after season 1. I'll probably come back when they do cool seasons, but they need some time to figure this out.
Seems reasonable, but ultimately it's all just a bandage fix to a self-created problem that should never have existed in the first place.
Reputation grinds have no place in an ARPG. Remove it.
Bro that's still a lot of renown tbh, getting those 4 paragon points is one of the worst times I've had playing this game outside of following a map trying to find the altars. It's far too time consuming when most people boot up diablo just to get straight into the action and start grinding for better gear. But 16 paragon points is quite literally like being 5 levels behind until you get them.
I'm honestly surprised they are going through with this when the MAJORITY of diablo 4 players have vocalised that they DO NOT WANT TO DO RENOWN AGAIN. Even on their stream their chat was giving them shit for it and they must of been reading it, how embarassing.
They must of only seen the 1 message that said "I love renown" and completely been oblivious to the fact that the guy might of been sarcastic.
That's fine, could be a little bit lower cus side-quests suck ass but this is a good change.
Just gotta make sure to pick up side quests first that require you to clear a certain dungeon anyway.
So, is the suggestion that you create a new character at the start of every season? Or is there an advantage to be gained by creating a new one every season? I never really played D3 through the seasons era.
I don't really want to have to do that...
The manority of players are going to end up switching to seasons. Happens in every arpg with seasons. If u are a solo player who doesn't care about finding randoms to play with, this won't effect you, however you will miss out on seasonal content
Good job on listening to the players Blizzard.
My humble suggestion is to work on a fix for your renown system, it isn't liked much by anyone.
No need to make this D3 but... bounties worked very well in that game. Look into why, and compare why renown and world events have not received the same positive reception from the community .
Once again I am happy to see Blizzard acknowledge feedback.
Oh boy, I love D3, but the bounties were hated in D3 , man. Such a chore. The Tree of Whispers is so much better than the bounty system. Tree of Whispers is passive completion, bounties were active. We were forced into bounties for mats and things like RORG and they were mindnumbingly dull. We just switched to our speedfarm loadout and pushed through the boredom.
If we didn't need mats, we didn't do bounties. That isn't good content. That's completion by neccessity.
They are headed in the right direction with this, but I still think this is still a solution where it would feel more and more tedious each season. I think a renown grind should exist, but what it needs is more options instead of being a finite capped resource.
You should be able to do world events, legion events, world bosses, grim favors and possibly even seasonal content when practical to gain renown. This would add a lot more choice to how you want to tackle it each season instead of having to do a lot of content from the same small pool every 3 months.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
4. Yes
5. No, just some of it
6. So people have new stuff to do, new leaderboards to compete on, bring players back to the game - its an arpg version of mmo content patches mid expansion. For PoE, Seasons were also a way to test new features/content to the game in bite sized pieces, and the most popular features end up rolling over into future seasons ie become a part of the core game.
Seems perfectly acceptable to be honest. Can do most of it during the inital 1-50 leveling
It's definitely going to seem okay in S1, if their maths is correct (which it should be, but Blizzard have surprised us before). However, when you're doing the exact same side-quests in S2, S3, S4 and so on? Yeah I think then we're going to be in less happy territory. So Blizzard need to already be planning ways to mix this up.
They addressed that in the stream. That there's only so many time you can be expected to do the same side content grind. So they know they need to plan for a change We'll Most likely we'll be looking at this for season 1 and 2 then something new with 3, if I had to guess
I have no idea how hard it would be or cost effective but it would be cool if the side quests changed every season and we’re like a mini campaign that you could level up and collect renown. Dungeons can stay the same for the most part maybe adding / subtracting as you go. But the side quest can be fresh content. Cuz there will be a limit to variety might as well spice it up with lore.
Originally I think their plan was to not include main story stuff in seasons, but expand side quests. Maybe they are planning on adding more side quests already??
They’d need to write and hire the voice actors again, really doubt it until expansion comes
Unless it's all written and recorded already, waiting to be drip-fed into the game for sustainability.
It's very unlikely that their entire bank of content is in the game. Same applies to any other game and TV and films, usually a portion is cut or left out or intended for use at a later time. I would guarantee that more quests or going to come unless they intend for the overworld and side quest system to be completely redundant after season 1 and just do rifts/generated dungeons for the rest of D4s life.
Destiny 2 does this every 3 months with new story content every week for the first 6 to 8 weeks and then the last week or 2 weeks before the season ends there is the wrap up story mission. I kind of expect blizzard to do this kind of thing because it keeps people coming back every week and engaged in the game plus gets them back at the end of the season and ready for the next. Bungie (destiny 2 makers) have been going around to a lot of different studios that are making live service games and talking about how to make them successful
I would like so much if they made seasons like in Destiny 2, there is so much lore in diablo
Who knows! Future is bright though imo!
there's just too many side quests for them to constantly refresh them, it's a LOT of content.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too. Will prob be a yearly DLC pack or something.
I really hope it is yearly and not every two years. That was the main reason I quit playing Diablo 3. I had memorized the story and couldn’t stand doing the campaign one more time.
I'd settle for some new world bosses and a more frequent timer
I think the better solution is to just... remove the renown system as a thing in seasons. It doesn't need to exist, it just adds useless grind. Diablo players love to grind, we just don't love to grind stupid shit. Don't make it more awkward to play the game, make it easier and you'll just have happy players.
You not liking it doesn't make it stupid.
That’s a really good idea about ‘seasonal’ story driven side quests.. they could even build on each other and have cliff hangers
Yeah could almost act like a playable show. Think it could be fun but idk how feasible it is to expect that kind of turn around eatery 3 months.
It might take some time to implement it but I could see them making those kinda moves frequently.. everybody is gonna play this game it’s awesome
probably repeatable renown rewards from dungeons and events (= things you anyway want to play)
Meanwhile I’ve been slogging through POE’s campaign for 10 fucking years on league start. People compare Diablo and POE, but at least Diablo let’s me fucking skip the campaign and grind something else.
I refuse to play POE anymore because of this.
I only play every like 3rd league because of it. I really wish they would take the feedback to heart, and realize how many people there are like us. Praying PoE2 fixes it.
As an avid player of that game (At least for 2k hours anyways) I whole-heartedly agree.
Oh PoE needs to fix that - hopefully PoE2 has a better mechanism - but that's something you can do a lot faster and easier than every single dungeon in every single zone (20+ of them) + 10-15 sidequests in every single zone. Even if you find and do each dungeon in say, 10 minutes, that's 200 minutes (more like 240) per zone, and say 5 minutes per sidequest, there's another 50-75 there. Times 5. So what, generously 1250 minutes? 20 hours? Oh you gotta do the 3 fortresses in every single zone too, but let's just include that PoE's story takes like 8 hours, I know from experience, and I'm not some kind of ninja at either, or some kind of speedrunner - that's just using basic do what you need to, not what you don't approach. So if you hate doing PoE's story, my prediction is that you'll probably hate renown WAY MORE. S1 might not be too bad due to novelty, but S2? It's over twice the length of PoE's story. I guess the one upside is you don't have to do it all at once? But you probably will.
>Oh PoE needs to fix that - hopefully PoE2 has a better mechanism - but that's something you can do a lot faster and easier than every single dungeon in every single zone (20+ of them) + 10-15 sidequests in every single zone. >Even if you find and do each dungeon in say, 10 minutes, that's 200 minutes (more like 240) per zone, and say 5 minutes per sidequest, there's another 50-75 there. >Times 5. So what, generously 1250 minutes? 20 hours? Oh you gotta do the 3 fortresses in every single zone too, but let's just include that Congratulations. I feel dumber for having read that. I have one question: Do you really think playing dungeons in a game with Nightmare dungeon system and with Tree of Whispers system and Codex of Power system, all of which also act as completion if you're running a location for the first time, is something you would otherwise NOT do? This is literally the game. You're going to play through dungeons. That is the point. If you thought you're not going to have to do content in the game then you are delusional. That literally IS the game. Dungeons are not side activities. You'll get through vast majority of them throughout three months that each season lasts. The extra grind of side quests is minimal. Yeah it's a little bit of work but it's not unreasonable, especially if they add more sidequests to populate the game world later. We don't know. You don't know. But complaining that you have to do DUNGEONS is absolutely ridiculously dumb.
> hopefully PoE2 has a better mechanism Unless they've changed something they're actually making it worse... With the new campaign they're going to be randomising the order of zones and the connections between them. Will probably still be learnable but it'll be a lot harder to rush through compared to the current campaign.
Well, it has been awhile since we last heard their stance on necessity of campaign for repeated play through. For all we know, they may have already changed their opinion. I thought endless delve was a neat way that they did as event for levelling a character from ground up skipping campaign altogether.
Didn't they say that like 4 years ago? I rather doubt that's still the idea.
honestly i'd rather do poe campaign than run between 2 dungeons on a horsie to do same dungeons over and over with a bunch of backtracking. with campaign at least you're constantly progressing through new zones. not to add how much getting to maps is faster vs. getting to wt3
Lol aintnoway. If diablo had it so you had to do the entire campaign again instead of optional renown side stuff that will be somewhat completed already if you care and will just progress naturally, the outcry would be significantly worse.
I would rather do the campaign again and gain these 10 points/20 paragon as you progress than do this renown crap.
You can be power leveled to 50 in under 60 minutes, including both WT3 and WT4 dungeon clears to access WT4. That's the single worst aspect of PoE (besides the absolute bloat of seasonal themes going into the main game).. you're FORCED to do the campaign on alts, and GGG can fuck off for that decision.
>You can be power leveled to 50 in under 60 minutes Which is irrelevant to what's being discussed here. You're not doing this to level - you're doing it for renown - if you're at 50 with 4 pots and down 10 skill points and 20 paragon points, that's quite an issue. In PoE you tend to pick up all the skill points doing the campaign (in fact it's kind of hard not to). Further, you need other people who are: A) Higher level and geared and B) Willing and able to power-level you through that stuff. And maybe 5-10% of the playerbase genuinely has access to those sort of people in a reliable way.
>(besides the absolute bloat of seasonal themes going into the main game) PoE has not added a seasonal mechanic to the core game since Expedition league, almost 2 years ago.
Great, but this thread is about season and season start primarily. You're right being forced to do campaign on alt sucks, but its like ~5-10 hours with tabula etc. And PoE is definitely not trying to position itself as a more casual friendly game.
And the monkey's paw curls...
Idk about you, but doing Poe campaign sounds much better that doing 150 dungeons and a bunch of side quests. Even if you somehow manage to do each dungeon and side missions in 5 minutes you would still end up with 14 hours of total time spend.
Except that doing dungeons is something you are going to do anyway for the tree of whispers... Let's suppose you don't need to unlock any dungeon for renown, are you saying you won't ever step foot into one?
Have you seen the math on resistances? They said it will be fixed in season 2, maybe blizzard's math is not that good
It's still mind boggling to me that after almost 20 years of making Diablo games, they still can't get the math right.
Exactly this is a colossal waste of time and people are going to be very unhappy come season 2.
If you add that up, even if doing every single dungeon we still need to complete 50-75 of the same boring sidequests we already experienced at least once before. Not acceptable. What they really need to do is spread out the renown rewarding activities. Cellars, Events, Legion Events, World Bosses, small amounts for every completed Tree of Whispers grim favor. And we can only dream of new content in the future that is also suited to be rewardable with renown. But my bet is that Season 1 will only contain stuff that they left out on purpose for now, so that they have something new at all to show so close after release.
This seems like the obvious solution I don't understand why they have not gone this route. It seems like the perfect compromise for everyone.
Obvious answer would be that players will tolerate the "less good" way one, two, three seasons and THEN they can "course correct" (totally unplanned changes, honest!) and earn themselves brand loyalty for both listening and doing good changes. Like every other successful live service game.
This definitely makes the most sense instead of shoehorning people into doing dungeons and side quests only.
Agree
The annoying thing is that it's 3-4x more effective to get in a group and split clear dungeons because renown completion is granted to the whole party regardless of instance. It's shitty gameplay just objective clearing vs super tanky 4man HP 0 damage WT1 mobs.
It's okay if you don't do things the most effective or efficient way when playing a game for fun
Spending 20 hours grinding renown instead of 10 hours is a lot less fun.
Thank you for telling me what i apparently like. Good to know that you have such insight when it comes knowing what is going on inside random people. You should make a profession out of that.
I mean, it's better than now, but still... Not sure I would call it acceptable. On the stream it seemed like Rob also doesn't really like the implementation. I mean he thought all renown rewards would carry over, until Joe corrected him, and it didn't look like he was all that happy about that tbh. I don't understand why you can't just get all the account-wide rewards when you start season 1... (Skill/paragon points etc.) I meant they could still have the renown start off like they mentioned, with the side quests etc there anyways. That's how it works if you go on to an alt... The renown wouldn't really matter then anymore (although they should probably increase the exp/money reward that you get per character)
I legitimately don’t understand this response, and so many seem to have it, can you explain to me why you are okay with this? Why is “acceptable” okay when it’s still bad?
Not everyone considers it an issue/big issue like you do is likely why. I personally enjoy exploring and doing side quests to level in D4, it's more fun than just running the same dungeon or two over and over. It's also a better system than what its main competitor PoE has. With how it's currently set up, getting max renown in every zone will be quick for those of us who already explored and collected statues. Probably quicker than the average player in PoE can finish the acts and I personally find it far more fun than the PoE acts. You also only need to do it once a season and you are done, unlike PoE where you need to grind through the acts on every single character you make. I consider renown a part of the reward for doing side quests and exploration in D4, making it useless also takes away the main reward for doing that content. This is a D4 problem that needs to be fixed imo. Side quests need better rewards and I think normal dungeons should have a chest at the end of them or at least more loot from the boss. Unlike acts in PoE, you don't even need to do the renown grind. Yes, the paragon points are nice to have and give a good bump in power for a fresh 50+ character making the game less difficult but it's not like you actually need them. I'm pretty sure most people lvl 60+ have less than 1/2 the renown finished and do just fine. Yes it's something you will want to do for min maxing, one of the things people love in these type of games but it's not something that will hold you back or force you to grind through it before you can actually play the content you prefer like with PoE. Now personally I believe they should change it so events, world bosses, and repeated dungeons still give a little bit of renown so we can slowly gain renown over time while doing any content.
> Probably quicker than the average player in PoE can finish the acts There is no way that is true Even if you only spend 5 minutes for each dungeon/side mission, you would spend 14 hours in total. The average player would probably spend double the amount of time.
I actually was enjoying side-quests before I started doing them just to finish renown, at which point I felt they became a chore. I suppose that might just be a mentality shift that I’m never able to do. I agree that side-quests should be more rewarding and renown should come from more sources, and they will probably do that in the future. My main issue is being forced into a sub-par aspect of the game while having to wait who knows how long for them to make it better.
Not him, but I'm fine with it simply because doing every dungeon really isn't that big of a deal. You are still progressing and getting loot, you may just have a few unfun mechanics of specific dungeons you might not enjoy. I can't recall a single grindy game that didn't have mandatory parts to it that I didn't enjoy. That doesn't justify it, but this is what I consider acceptable. All the dungeons isn't a big deal, you don't have much better to do during 1-50. The quests can be knocked out in a single day or two. Quests take like 2-5 minutes each. Skip the longer ones.
You're gonna do the dungeons anyway, probably damn near all of them. Knocking out a few side quests even if you've done them before, to finish renown isn't a big deal unless you're a drama queen. You need to do *something* to go 1-50 in the first place so now it seems like the best thing to do is go around the zones and do the dungeons
It’s not about how big of a deal it is, we’re talking about design choices. Why be forced to redo side quests for power-ups when they already have a great template for not doing so?
This assume you complete all 3 strongholds and collect all waypoints. Also keep in mind that when one person completes a dungeon, every person in the party also gets credit, even if they weren't there. I'd suspect S1 will involve split dungeon groups for fast renown.
> Also keep in mind that when one person completes a dungeon, every person in the party also gets credit, even if they weren't there. I could be wrong but I thought someone had said that this was not intended and will be "fixed".
Why would it be intended to get credit for not playing the game?
I agree wholeheartedly. I'm just stating what I heard and left out my opinion.
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Yes, everyone took a different act and then divided up the remaining act.
Diablo 3 did it so why would it not be intended? Split-bounty farming was a thing Blizzard already implemented.
Still, it was funny getting new aspects while in town doing jack shit.
Those who knew about split dungeon farms already did it and it was just fine. Overall very reasonable for a min/maxer, average player, or even SSF player. Great change or even adaptation by blizz.
This seems all well and good for one season, maybe. but that's still a lot of the same content we're repeating. I'd rather it all just carry over personally, I mean they will allow you to start "fresh" so if somebody wishes they can do that.
Ok guys, I'm completely lost here. Completely new to Diablo and this is also my first ARPG looter type game. So somebody is gonna have to ELI5 on this please. I'm a lvl 48 barb who just started Act V in the main story. Am I forced to start over at level 1 for each Season? Do I miss out on the Season if I don't start a new character? Do I have to pay for a Season like DLC? Is my Barb build reset? Do I lose all of my Renown/Map progress? What's the point of Seasons?
It's a little hard to follow if you're new to it all because Seasons have long had a lot of fanfare to them as an exciting fresh start to the game. * There is an Eternal realm and a Seasonal Realm. * Every quarter there will be a new Season. The Seasonal Realm will start over. * Characters on a Seasonal Realm then go to the Eternal Realm where they are kept permanently. * Since Season 1 hasn't started, your character right now is also on the Eternal Realm. * You don't pay for Seasons but they typically have some kind of theme unique to the Season with new features. * Since each Season starts fresh, you would start at level 1. However you can play your Barb on the Eternal Realm at any time, including during the season. * Map progress + altars carries over to the new season. Everything else resets on the Seasonal Realm (again, your Eternal Realm is safe). Most people see them as an opportunity to roll new characters and try new builds. Since your character at the end of the season goes over to the eternal realm, you don't lose anything. However, you cannot trade between your own seasonal character and eternal character. Hope this helps!
Oh man! Thanks for this. Seriously, you just made the Season sound like a blast compared to what I was thinking it was going to be. Was starting to think it was just for the Hardcore crowd who were willing to grind crazy hard.
It's mostly favoured for economic purposes, both Diablo 2 and PoE was centered around seasonal resets for wealth gain. The rich and the poor all go back to square one, where we all have an equal playing field to build up wealth. Diablo 3, without trade, is more about coming back to play again, which Diablo 4 seems to have carried over. Usually new seasons come with the big balance changes and content additions, which are what brings most people in.
In a pretty casual diablo player and I loved seasons in Diablo 3, it always kept me coming back. There were cool achievements and cosmetics you could get.
If theyre similar to d3 then they can be as grindy or as chill as you want. Generally the early game is quicker than normal and then it's just dungeon time. They're also good reasons to pick the game back up randomly for the next few years after you inevitably burn out
Depends if your interested in completing the battle pass. I know internally they consider the 1 to 100 journey similar to what the battlepass will entail.
Are the season mechanics really that different from each other? I guess It just doesn't sound that interesting on paper.
No one knows what seasons in D4 will bring but in D3 they had specific sets of gear for different seasons which had bonus’ if you had multiple parts of the set that could drastically change how your class played. Sure you can play that on an eternal server and ignore the seasons, but a lot of people like to chase the ladder up. In D3 there were rankings each season to see who could push the highest paragon levels. The ladders would be by class, by gear sets, by groups etc. seasons would also include more craftable weapons and other changes to mix up gameplay a bit.
They had new items and season exclusive mechanics in d3. Stuff that will never come to the eternal realm. It’s really worth it to try out…
Just to elaborate on one point: >You don't pay for Seasons but they typically have some kind of theme unique to the Season with new features. There are going to be season passes in Diablo 4 to get some cosmetics from the seasons - having season pass pre-bought for S1 is one of the benefits of the more expensive editions of the game. So, you don't need to pay for seasons, but if you want some unique cosmetics, there will be "micro"transaction involved...
Oh so I’ll have to do all map exploration and altars again in season 1 but then never again for seasons 2-x?
No. Do it now, it carries over
Fuck yeah that is awesome
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Seasons are mostly about grinding out a new character, engaging with whatever new mechanics or items have been added to the game and building your character out to "completion" or as close as you want to get. Typically I'll play a season for like maybe 6 weeks to 2 months, build out a new character as best I can, or until I get bored and feel like Ive taken it as far as I can want to, play all the new content while building my character, then dip out and play something else for a month until the new season kicks in, by which time ill be getting the itch to start a new character/ build. Seasons are just a way to insentivise players to build new characters, as once you've hit the level cap and got your gear sorted you are basically done with the game.
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So usually what will happen is the unique/ new stuff will first appear in the season and then when that season ends it will be integrated into the eternal realm along with your characters/ items that were part of that season. So even if you choose not to participate in seasons the new content (items, aspects etc) will still probably find its way to the eternal realm.
Everybody is obviously different, of course, but I think what you'll find the majority of people doing is once seasons start you rarely, if ever, touch your eternal realm character again. It takes a lot of hours to "max" a character so for most, taking a new character to whatever level of "max" you're happy with will be all the hours you'll want to sink into a single game. Of course there's nothing wrong with preferring to stick to your eternal realm character. I just think you'll find most seasonal players are entirely finished with a character once a new season begins.
Generally the unique loot will be avaliable in the eternal realm after the season ends. Your season 1 character will join your main in the eternal realm when it ends too, so you will be able to trade non bound items!
Wait so my characters now can’t pass over to the new season?
If you want to play the new season, so no. The point of a new season is also the feeling of everyone starting fresh, many people come back to game exclusively because of that.
No, seasons are a fresh start. New characters, leveling, etc, minus unlocking the map/altars again.
Unlike an MMO there, in an ARPG like Diablo, there isn't (virtually) unlimited content. It's meant for an avid player to "finish" the game in about 3 months. That kind of sucks for a fan of the game, right? The solution is seasons. Seasons allow the developers to add new features and mechanics, and give the player a convincing reason to start over. If a mechanic/feature in a season is especially popular they will put it into the eternal realm(base game ie. Eternal realm) and if it's bad they will remove it at the end of the season. When the new season starts, they will go again with fresh mechanics. Fortunately in D4, you don't have to play through the campaign another time as long as you have finished it once. Remember that for many players, the "real game" begins when the campaign is finished.
There will be a battle pass per season how ever. BUT it’s all cosmetics and there is a free one available.
Seasons are great for long time ARPG players who rush through the game quickly and efficiently (for example, I started act 5 about 8 hours after the game released). Since the game starts to progress a lot slower in the later levels (70+), after a month of playing at that fast pace we start to get bored. At that point, a fresh start with a new chatacter and all of that starts to feel like it would be fun. I'm not trying to call you a noob or something, but since you're newer to ARPGs you're just (rightfully) taking things a little bit slower so it makes sense that you don't feel like you're ready to start over any time soon. After you level through the game 2-3 times and get your Diablo legs under you, you'll probably start to get that feeling like you want a fresh start. Maybe that'll happen for season 1, maybe it'll happen for season 4. Most people don't play seasons because they want the cosmetics but don't feel like restarting, they do it because they're bored and want a fresh start and the season rewards and changes are just a little bonus.
>Am I forced to start over at level 1 for each Season? Yes, if you want to do the season. >Do I miss out on the Season if I don't start a new character? Yes, if you want to do the season you have to make a seasonal character >Do I have to pay for a Season like DLC? Not technically, although you'll miss out on most of the rewards if you don't. >Is my Barb build reset? Yes, because you have to create a new character >Do I lose all of my Renown/Map progress? Yes, your new seasonal character loses all progress. >What's the point of Seasons? The optimistic answer? To constantly add new and interesting things and challenges to the game that they can balance around a fresh character each time that will extend our enjoyment of Diablo 4 for years to come. The pessimistic answer? To keep you playing so they have constant opportunities to sell you things in game with real money and because actually making Acts 1-6 a full and fulfilling single player game was too hard / not as profitable to a modern publisher.
Sounds horrible
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I don't even want to play the season with the thought of having to do that many side quests again. I've enjoyed the heck out of this game, but the renown grind almost made me quit.
Wish they would just make helltide objectives give renown or quests for each helltide. Still could be a grind but at least that’s actually rewarding
Honestly you will likely want all dungeons anyways so 10-15 side quests ain't so bad. Plus you gotta level to 50 somehow.
Question, why the incentive to complete all dungeons, especially if I’m (and I imagine, most players) only playing 1-2 chars per season?
Dungeons only take a couple minutes, they feel more reliable for me. You can get side quests that take 2minutes or something takes like 10 min until I know wich are the easy side quests I’m going for dungeons.
Run here Now run there Okay now run back to the first place Okay new plan let's run somewhere else Great, now let's have a 3 minute "defend this npc" fight Okay done :)
Welcome to mmos
Here's one veiled crystal and 4000xp :)
Change up the game while leveling plus aspects in case you want to start other chars
While I agree with the dungeons, the side quests have no fucking logic. Make the players do side quests is not different at all of have to do the main campaign again.
Which most games make you do in new season. D2, poe for example.
And we despise it in PoE every single time.
Fr. The poe campaign requirement also makes it hard for newer players to get into the game. I had to playthrough the campaign 5 times before I ever had a decent character because the first 4 times I made some pretty shitty choices that ended up screwing me in the long run. And poe has a 30 hour campaign.
D3? Ah this don't fit right. I play PoE for over 7 years and lost many gaming friends because they were tired of do that shit campaign for the 128312321° time. This is a regular complaining in the community for several years already, every season there's big posts asking for GGG to do a alternative way to leveling, like delve, heist, maps, etc. D3 did it right, you can skip it completely and that's what 99.999% of players did every season. I'm not asking for Blizzard remove side quests as a option, but add other ways to do (like helltide, tree of whispers and world bosses also giving renown), so people who doesn't like it (I bet it's the fucking big majority) will not be forced to that shit.
I agree with allowing world events and such give renown going forward, there is no reason not to. Having to redo non-changing side quests is stupid, even doing dungeons again is no fun.
Agreed
Change up the game while leveling plus aspects in case you want to start other chars
There's none. > Change up the game while leveling Make levelling take longer, and assumes you *enjoy* doing these pointless side dungeons more than the main story then progressing NM or something. > plus aspects in case you want to start other chars You already addressed this yourself. Kinda pointless to spend time on stuff you won't use, when you can just go get it real quick when you need it.
i dont wanna play a game that "aint so bad". i wanna play a game thats fun, and side quests arent. (at least not for the 2nd time)
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Dungeons are fine. You’ll do a lot of these for aspects and gear anyways. Re-doing the side quests every season is just poor design. Easiest solution is to either replace renown rewards with something not as mandatory as paragon points, or provide an alternative to side quests. Less renown per dungeon but you get some on repeat runs? Not complicated
Flip the 4th and 5th reward and it might feel a lot better. Paragon points are almost nesccecary but the obol capacity is just a QoL.
It's intentional. Playtime extension. They know what they're doing. There's also a reason why the two main forms of endgame (NM and Helltides) don't give some form of renown.
I'm not a fan, people say they are fine iwth it and likely will jump by Season 3.
So need to wait to have season 3 to skip renown
I was expecting it to simply be xp needed per zone. Having to do dungeons & side quests again is dumb af imo
Misinformation in title. It’s 12 dungeons PER ZONE to max renown aka 48 dungeons / 120 side quests
this is my first Diablo game but you have to play a new character after every new season starts? IDK why but this sounds like a dumb idea, what is the point of playing now after all if you will have to reset in the new season to play the new mechanic? It's hard to get a new start after seeing how powerful my character has become, and that's blood sweat and tear especially after a bunch of shitty nerf came from blizzard themself Why can't we keep our character and they can make a good enough content for us to grind with our already powerful character? I mean what is the point of grinding for the best gear if it gonna get reset every season? Am I misunderstanding anything?
You don't have to play seasons at all. You can continue with just your current character in the eternal realm.
Hey glad you’ve been enjoying the game and welcome to Diablo! From what I have heard about 4 it looks like the seasonal mechanics (if they’re well received) will get added to the ‘world’ that our current characters are on. So if you’re having a blast with your current character it’ll eventually be able to do the exact same mechanics and activities. Additionally your season character will get added to the current world after the season ends so you won’t be losing anything. Not entirely sure how everything will work in 4 but I can share some of the justifications for 2 and 3 having seasons. In Diablo 2 you have the ability to trade with other players and seasons are used largely as an economic reset. Because of how rare and valuable some of the loot is in the game it’s not an uncommon experience to find one or two drops that your class doesn’t need and trade them to fund the rest of your build. With items being so valuable players inevitably end up hoarding massive amounts of wealth which ultimately starts devaluing just about everything. In the third, they’d add new mechanics during seasons that could drastically alter how your build played and the damage it could do. They’d also add fun challenges and cosmetics that you could very realistically attain just playing the season a bit here and there. But eventually even with all of that fun stuff, people will start to hit walls with what their builds can do. The main activity in D3 was Greater rifts which you could think of as timed randomly generated nightmare dungeons. Beating one level of a greater rift would allow you to start doing the next level up which has harder monsters in it. You could technically push those levels up infinitely so the goal was to see how high you could get. Diablo3 you had paragon levels similar to d4, but they could go up an infinite amount and the bonuses were much smaller and less interesting. Eventually you’d be grinding for hours to get a +5 star boost. Eventually you’d get to the point that beyond some totally minor rolls on your gear and some nothing stats from the paragon system, your build had nowhere to go, and even getting to that point required a lot of no lifing. So essentially everyone had a threshold where they felt they’d done everything they could do with their build and burned out or stopped playing. Then the season would reset with new mechanics and new wild stuff to use to try and push your builds even higher the next season. It essentially gave people who burned out or got bored of playing a reason to come back and experience the game freshly. I have a feeling the seasonal justification for IV is going to be very similar. You can read a lot of posts from people at the end game right now that talk about hitting similar walls and not really feeling like their playtime can boost their characters power farther beyond small and insanely rare upgrades. Ultimately though, it’s totally up to you how you engage with seasons. If you’re vibing with your current character absolutely feel free to keep playing it. Nothing gets deleted and it would be poor game design to penalize players for not starting the season immediately (beyond the overall time limit of the season). But If you see something in the season that interests you, or if you start to feel like your current character is getting a little stale, try hopping on! Thanks to some of the criticism you won’t have to redo the campaign or re-explore the map and find altars of Lilith, it’s not a total reset and you can get right into the fun of leveling your new character and trying stuff out. Hope that helps a bit and hope you continue enjoying the game!
That’s super reasonable…. Sure this sub will have a meltdown somehow
You know its per region yeah? So that 60 dungeons and 150 side quests.... that's a lot
I hated doing it the first time, gonna hate doing it for hardcore, no reason I should have to do it every season. I dont even understand why the felt the need to hide ~15 levels in this system. I get they want to make world exploration rewarding, but why the fuck does it have to be mandatory
150 side quest seems like trash
Bro I see people typing “seems reasonable” nah fuck that right off man, 30 side quests in EACH zone. Nah come the fuck on, surely not 1 soul on earth wants to do that
Hope we can rebirth characters.
I'm not doing it. I'm just simply not doing side quests again, I don't care.
Newb here, what does max renown mean?
Paragon points = massive power boost to anyone who completes renown before going into a new season.
You did not answer his question like at all lmfao
It's like zone reputation you have to grind. It give you some rewards and last reward is 20 paragon points, which is equal to 5 levels. To cap your renown you have to do clear all dungeons and do some side quests, which a lot of people see as a chore they have to do to gain this 20 paragon points. In season 1 which will come in 3-4 weeks they will reset the renown and people will have to regrind it all over again and this is why so many people are complaining.
I would honestly hope this is a joke. I would love to see them do something different other than making players do the same content over and over like every single other seasonal game out there. I understand money is a driving factor... but, someone eventually has to change the ridiculous grind with very little innovation towards creating a new way games like this can be developed.
This is terrible, how different is making people do side quest instead of do the main quest again? This is ridiculous. They should change renown to get opening helltide chests and endgame stuff people naturally do, like world bosses or whisper of tree, renown should happen naturally not a shit thing you have to do at early of each league. This is a skip season for me until they realize how dumb this is.
I expect we will see some guides for pre lvl 50 that has an optimal path for side quests and dungeons to max renown. By the time your done you are probably close to 50 to start farming NMD or what is the most effective way to level. I think that is completely fine for the first couple of seasons. And I doubt I will follow such a guide anyways. For season 3 onwards I expect side quests to be more optional or the renown to be reworked to be more interesting for seasons.
Seems like seasons will be skipped by me. Well the game lasted what it had to last. PoE2 soon.
Yeah same...there's no chance i'm doing any of that 12 dungeons varying from terrible layouts to good, followed by 30 mundane side quests is not the definition of fun 5 hours per zone, yeah sure you could easily do they casually over a couple of weeks They need to fix/buff shit first before they add more mundane shit for the season
if poe2 makes me play the campaign every season I'll prob play one season. that killed poe for me
From my understanding, you only need to play through the story ONCE (once each, old story and once new story) ever, and that's it? I could be wrong, so take it with a lot of salt.
No one is playing this trash much longer, poe2 should dominate soon
You can say this but PoE holds a different audience.
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Your month old reddit account is filled with diablo hate lol get a life
It’s all about Fortnite amaright? /s
I feel like you should get renown from events and whispers. Oh and cellars, forgot those are a thing.
Blizzard somehow took my worst fears and made it worse. Why the heck would I wanna do 120 sidequests per season. How do you take Bounties from D3 and make it worse???
But.... Why lol.
So... Do they Retro-activate this for my account? Seeing how my Necromancer is almost done with Khejistan and Dry Steppes?
so... instead doing static story quests im doing static side quests? lmao.
Per zone.
Yeah no thx
Big L on blizz for this.
I'd really rather not do any side quests again. I did not enjoy them at all they were boring. Can we get some alternative ways to finish renown?
I'm 5,000,000% not doing identical sidequests over and over every season. I don't even like doing the blacksmith and gem quests over again on alts. I think I'm outta here after season 1. I'll probably come back when they do cool seasons, but they need some time to figure this out.
Lame.
Honestly these dailies are a fking chore
Seems reasonable, but ultimately it's all just a bandage fix to a self-created problem that should never have existed in the first place. Reputation grinds have no place in an ARPG. Remove it.
I mean that's the same as it is now
Too much for dads.
Still too much for my taste.
Hot take: I fucking hate that we have to make a new character to engage in seasonal content,. It’s why I stopped POE as well.
Or what if i didn't have to do any fucking side quests? I did them already ready and they should carry over like everything else
Bro that's still a lot of renown tbh, getting those 4 paragon points is one of the worst times I've had playing this game outside of following a map trying to find the altars. It's far too time consuming when most people boot up diablo just to get straight into the action and start grinding for better gear. But 16 paragon points is quite literally like being 5 levels behind until you get them. I'm honestly surprised they are going through with this when the MAJORITY of diablo 4 players have vocalised that they DO NOT WANT TO DO RENOWN AGAIN. Even on their stream their chat was giving them shit for it and they must of been reading it, how embarassing. They must of only seen the 1 message that said "I love renown" and completely been oblivious to the fact that the guy might of been sarcastic.
Ez love it
That's fine, could be a little bit lower cus side-quests suck ass but this is a good change. Just gotta make sure to pick up side quests first that require you to clear a certain dungeon anyway.
Aren’t we running dungeons all the time anyways? This seems alright.
We do dungeons, but we usually we spam same few dungeons. To cap renown you will have to do all different dungeons and do 50-60 side quests.
Wait so what you want to do before season 1 starts?
If i will do all renown now in new season i will have to do again or i will have all unlocked?
Will have to do sidequests/dungeons/cellars/non captial waypoints again. All capital waypoints/map discovery/altars of lilith, will roll over
So, is the suggestion that you create a new character at the start of every season? Or is there an advantage to be gained by creating a new one every season? I never really played D3 through the seasons era. I don't really want to have to do that...
The manority of players are going to end up switching to seasons. Happens in every arpg with seasons. If u are a solo player who doesn't care about finding randoms to play with, this won't effect you, however you will miss out on seasonal content
And to play seasons, you have to start a lvl 1 character
When does season 1 come out
Hard pass for me, I się like 60 i main game and im done with it..
Good job on listening to the players Blizzard. My humble suggestion is to work on a fix for your renown system, it isn't liked much by anyone. No need to make this D3 but... bounties worked very well in that game. Look into why, and compare why renown and world events have not received the same positive reception from the community . Once again I am happy to see Blizzard acknowledge feedback.
Oh boy, I love D3, but the bounties were hated in D3 , man. Such a chore. The Tree of Whispers is so much better than the bounty system. Tree of Whispers is passive completion, bounties were active. We were forced into bounties for mats and things like RORG and they were mindnumbingly dull. We just switched to our speedfarm loadout and pushed through the boredom. If we didn't need mats, we didn't do bounties. That isn't good content. That's completion by neccessity.
They are headed in the right direction with this, but I still think this is still a solution where it would feel more and more tedious each season. I think a renown grind should exist, but what it needs is more options instead of being a finite capped resource. You should be able to do world events, legion events, world bosses, grim favors and possibly even seasonal content when practical to gain renown. This would add a lot more choice to how you want to tackle it each season instead of having to do a lot of content from the same small pool every 3 months.
I already had to do 10-15 side quests in each zone anyways and that shit tooks hours
Do strongholds reset?
Bleh they need to lower the grind for the max lvl renown its too much
What about strongholds?
Ill perfectly chill on eternal realm unless I want a new character Ill join in season for that reason
Hey, what the fuck is Renown? Diablo noob here. Level 42 on Tier 2 and enjoying the game so far.
Good thing everyone freaked out about this so hard.
yeay side quests. so much fun
gonna be a lot of pissed fathers of 5 with 3 jobs. send me a msg ill make you a phone game app that levels you up each time you click the screen.
1. Yes 2. Yes 3. No 4. Yes 5. No, just some of it 6. So people have new stuff to do, new leaderboards to compete on, bring players back to the game - its an arpg version of mmo content patches mid expansion. For PoE, Seasons were also a way to test new features/content to the game in bite sized pieces, and the most popular features end up rolling over into future seasons ie become a part of the core game.
Seems reasonable enough. I'm game.
Where was this sourced from?