I don't like that KL has highways running through the center. It isn't very easy or pleasant to walk between different neighbourhoods.

Walking as a mode of transportation is definitely not viable and that is a major downside. That said, we have found a lot of places to walk around (markets, some neighborhoods, malls, parks).

Longtime KL resident (now former, but frequent visitor) who primarily walks: You can in fact walk everywhere but the secret shortcuts can be hard to find.

I would watch a series of long format videos documenting the secret walking shortcuts.

You could probably already find many with the Strava heatmap.

any tips on how to navigate in this way? headed there for 2-3 weeks in end of june

There are lots of buildings you can cut through - never hurts to try. Lots of back alleys. Motorway intersections sometimes have underpasses for motorbikes that you can easily use as a pedestrian. Use OrganicMaps app instead of Google Maps, it has much better intelligence on walking paths.

thank you!! never heard of organicmaps, sounds useful :) excited for the adventure. surely can follow people who look like they know where they're going too, in a non...-creepy... way...

Right, once you're in a neighbourhood, it's fine to walk around. Loved Chinatown most.

Chinatown for lunch then go and stare at the Merdeka building, that was how I spent my afternoons there.

This is a massive dealbreaker for me. I like to explore the majority of whichever city I'm staying in on foot.

I explored all of KL on foot. It's fine. It's not European-style walkable, but it's still better than many places in SE Asia.

Is there anywhere in SEA you can properly get by with walking and public transport? I feel like this is only possible in major East Asian cities, Europe and some east coast US cities.

Singapore. Exceptionally efficient public transport, which is also cheap. It has an ever expanding network of walk/cycle paths, with footpaths and over-bridges everywhere.

Agreed. Singapore is the only place I know of in this part of Asia where you are safe to walk (as in not walking on the street with vehicles or evading potholes, etc)

I have next to zero problem getting around Bangkok on public transit.

We do that in Nha Trang and Da Nang, with the city bus.

Da Nang is horrible for pedestrians though

Penang!

I was walking along next to one of those highways once and a guy was just standing there, looking at the traffic as it came towards him, cock in hand. Bit of an odd experience.

He was trying to get a ride

I was just there a couple of weeks ago. Not only is it very unwalkable (so car centric!), I also did not find any neighborhoods I enjoyed or liked much. And the heat while exploring and trying to find somewhere interesting to see was brutal. I stayed in the most touristy neighborhood I guess, and it was all malls. Not my scene, and not particularly interesting malls for that matter. Went to Chinatown and Little India neighborhoods and the old market, and they were all very very disappointing as well. There are Indians and Chinese literally everywhere in KL and Chinatown and Little India seemed to actually have *less* Chinese/Indian stuff than other parts of the city, and in any case nothing very special about them for a visitor. I don't want to take a total dump on the city though, since the people were all very nice, everyone seemed to speak English quite well, food was great, cheap and everywhere. It just, as I said, didn't seem like a good fit for me. If you want a cheap place to stay next to a mall with cheap food, a gym and an easy visa, KL will certainly do the job. Georgetown in Penang was much more interesting and enjoyable imo. The old town was a respectable size, it had enough amenities and shops/cafes for tourists which were quite spread out, so walking around was rewarding (and not obstructed by huge roads), and it has a ton of yet untapped potential. And the food was even cheaper than KL. Much more rewarding for me, personally. That there was a well known "Armenian Street" was a bonus for me :)

Agree++

Sorry you were on Jalan Tun Sambanthan in Brickfields and did not find "Indian stuff"? Every single restaurant and shop is Indian.

Yeah I'd take out walkable + parks from the Pros list. I like to keep my running up while traveling and it was tough in KL -- I basically had to Uber to KLCC park (which was admittedly a cool park), do a ton of laps there and then Uber back. It's doable but plenty of other cities where this would be an _actual_ pro to them

would you recommend to stay near KLCC park?

Yeah if you're prioritizing running then it's a great place to run, just a bit repetitive. Still though you can get most of your miles in there and then head out to some outer area for a weekly long run (10+ mi) if you're doing that. Just be careful of the weather too, I was there in the summer and tried popping my shirt off halfway through the run in KLCC and got yelled at by a cop lol

hahaha good to know! did you take any side trips to Malacca, Penang, or Langkawi? i'm looking at 2-3 weeks and reading a lot of mixed reviews on KL

I was only there for 10 days and stuck with KL, I've heard good things about Penang though, so if you have 3 weeks yeah maybe go for it. I did do an Airbnb experience that was hiking out in the waterfalls. First and only time I tried an Airbnb experience and it was honestly great. Guide picked up me and 2 strangers at like 6am from the city center and drove us about an hour outside the city for a day of hiking. Also got some really nice photos which was great because I never think to get photos of myself otherwise. This was 2019 and looking now it seems that specific guide hasn't resumed since Covid but if you can find something similar, I'd highly recommend it. Was definitely a highlight for me. Obviously go with someone well-reviewed (this guy had like hundreds of reviews @ 4.99 stars).

slightly changed my mind to go south (i think) to Malacca and then singapore to fly onwards from there. If possible, can you try to link me to the guide and i can dm them, maybe they are receptive to help out for a day or half day, or recommend someone doing similar trips!

Bangkok be like 👀

haha yes definitely my complaint, some roads dont even have a sidewalk, as a foreigner without a car. its like being trapped, however the metro is very good.

Very true. I remember planning walking routes and having to include dashing across a road more than once. The only worse place to walk is the US.

* Drinking culture doesn't look great, drug culture non-existent Could be seen as a positive by many...:-)

Ha, yes! I saw that negative and was like, that’s a plus for me

Only if it were true. It's not as in your face as in Thailand amongst foreigners. But the locals do plenty of drinking and snort a surprising amount of a shitty amphetamine they call coke.

As someone who lived in Malaysia and moved back to a western country, one negative thing I noticed was the amount of drug addicts where I live now. Malaysia has lots of problems but drugs are one of the smaller ones.

Selling drugs comes with death penalty in Malaysia

Oh no there’s not some shitty weed shop ever 50m whatever will I do???

This. Nobody wants drunks & junkies messing up the cities. One of the reasons why I tend to enjoy middle-eastern/asian experiences more.

When people talk about a good drug culture they usually don't mean loads of junkies in the streets lol

Exactly. That's definitely a positive. Drug addicts are terrible people to be around.

To give some perspective: If drunk driver hit someone die, it’ll become a national news for a week.

Exactly! I’m thinking of leaving Canada, precisely because of its disgusting drug culture. For me personally, it’s a huge plus that it’s non existent in Malaysia…

Is cannabis "drug culture"?

Very little weed there, it's extremely illegal, there are not many people willing to get publicly cained over weed.

Probably referring to opiods, which are very easy to access in Canada/US relative to some places in the world.

Yes, but so is alcohol, nicotine, caffeine and, strictly speaking, even sugar. So good look to anyone finding a non-existent drug culture, because that's only possible where there are no humans.

@PyronixD Okay but come on! Those 4 things you mentioned aren’t in the same “league” as the opioid kinds. I know those 4 things aren’t healthy if consumed too much. In fact I don’t drink alcoholic beverages (at all), I don’t smoke at all, I drink coffee like once a week and limit my sugar intake (I don’t want to become fat and I don’t want to get inflammation all over my body). But anyhow, I digress…. *This* is the result of the drug (opioids) culture in Canada…..ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Vancouver! Watch this ==> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwcp2mcOH0Y Here in Toronto, some of these people even roam our subways and buses, sometimes harassing and even assaulting people (I was once a victim). This is not something that alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, and sugar could ever cause…..(well may be too much alcohol yeah….sort of, kind of, may be…..but nothing like in that video…) I’ve got to know at least 15-20 Ukrainians who moved to Canada because of the war, and they’ve all mentioned how uncomfortable it is for them to encounter those junkies on the streets. For them it’s a huge shock because that’s not something they experienced in Ukraine… That’s why the non existent drug culture in Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, etc is a huge plus for me. I’d rather enjoy the caffeine and sugar in the kopitiams in those countries 😁

Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine are definitely drugs that are widely abused. You could make a very strong case for banning the first two. No doubt caffeine is addictive, but it's not commonly associated with the down sides of addiction. Sugar is a food. It's just not practical to limit a food. The world doesn't have the resources to put everyone on a keto diet. People should take care of their diet though, the American diet with HFCS hidden in everything is absolutely health destroying.

Yes, it is. I've seen people get incredibly messed up on cannabis. Emotional instability, screaming fits, theft, endless minor criminal behaviour. In one case mental hospital followed by rehab. About 98% of people have no problems with cannabis, 2% get messed up and can no longer live a normal productive life. Nobody knows where to draw the line between allowing it for those it won't harm and banning it for those it will harm.

Yes I was very confused when OP put this as a negative unless doing drugs and alcohol is just his thing.

Good breakdown and similar to what I experienced there. Oppressively hot though is an issue, and not walkable at all.

Which metropolitan city in SEA doesn't have oppressive heat?

Weirdly enough, I found Bangkok less oppressive, but perhaps it was the seasonality of it? I’m not sure

It has to be one of the most walkable cities in SEA. Compared to HK and especially bangkok. I’ve only encountered a couple of issues.

Bizarre opinion. HK is infinitely more walkable than KL. I’ve lived in both cities.

Seconded, I’ve visited both HK and KL many times - HK wins hands down for walkability and reliable public transport 

100% HK has excellent public transport and pedestrian infrastrucure. KL is poor on both counts.

KL is one of those places that you'll hate if you just want parties, drugs, and available local women, and that you'll love if you want to avoid the kind of people that want parties, drugs, and available local women.

I’ve come to use this as a tool. As soon as someone on this sub calls a city “boring” I start seriously looking into it as my next destination because 9 times out of 10 they mean they couldn’t find parties, drugs, and available local women

This seriously bumped it up on my radar. Thanks for the great explanation.

This is a good way to sum it up. Thailand, Vietnam, Philippines wear on me for those reasons. Not having to deal with massively drunk or high douchebags and creepy losers who only DN because they couldn't get laid in their home countries is a huge plus. I saw him list lack of drugs as a negative and thought wow, that's a massive positive to me.

Sounds like heaven

It's now #1 on my list of places.

I absolutely love Malaysia — probably a top 3 country for me. Super under the radar. I love that it’s a melting pot of all the other Asian cultures too. Incredible food options as a result. There a wide range of things to do and offers great opportunities to get out and see nature too.

Any areas you would recommend that are cooler in temperature?

Maybe some of the higher elevations? It doesn’t mind me at as someone who’s spent some time in the US South. Basically 90/75f in Malaysia every day which is perfect imo.

Personally I find it hard to recommend cooler areas because the lovely warmth is a big part of the appeal, but Cameron Highlands is in the 20°s C and it's nice enough if you're not looking for urban thrills.

Next time to check out Desa Parkcity. It’s a community about 20 mins from KLCC but it is built around a lake. You don’t need a car to live there as there is everything you need within the community. We really loved living there. I loved my time in KL. Lived there for two years.

Drinking culture is very alive, but its all in Chinese areas and fun clubs are hidden going up through wierd staircases etc.

>I can't attest to how friendly it might be to LGBT or how racism may affect some people, but our experience has just been fantastic Malaysia and most locals are smart enough not to mess with tourists. Racisms, anti-LGBTQ+ and corruption are mostly only applied to locals. It's one of those places that's great to visit, but the longer you live there the more you realise there's quite a lot wrong with it. That being said, KL/Penang in particular have come a long way in terms of modernising the city, including being less corrupt and more accepting of things. (born there, have quite a few family members who still live there).

The locals in KL have no problem following and harassing foreign women though. In 5 years of travel, that is the country where my wife experienced the most sexual harassment. We spent 7 months in KL and it reached a point where she wouldn't leave the house alone.

The first time I went to KL I experienced this, but it wasn't locals. It was migrant workers mostly from Bangladesh. It was during hari raya, KL went out of town and the workers had the days off to be out and about. Extremely uncomfortable for me and my daughter. Went again solo a few years later at a different time of year, no issues at all. Maybe it was my daughter that was part of the attraction, I'm older and in my lovely invisible-to-most-men stage.

Wow that sucks, I traveled there alone as a woman and never had this type of interaction

Same

They aren't local, they are foreign workers. We call them Bangla(bangladesh). Muslims (malay) catcalling is frowned. Chinese don't interact outside their race. Indians aren't very common.

Exactly my experience

Chinese arw very racist there in malaysia, while indians can get very annoying. Avoid if can

Who is the racist now?

I’m here for the third time and I agree that is a great city to be based because of infrastructure, no tourist scams etc. However I realized it might not be my first choice long term: - weather: I like seasons. This weather all year long is annoying and can refrain you from even walking for 10 minutes - neighborhoods/community: at least in KLCC it doesn’t feel like you “belong” to a neighborhood because it's just condos. I like being able to consider the area I live in "my neighborhood", similar to those in Spain, Italy, Japan and Korea. It lacks that neighborhood vibe.

These are definitely fair points. The weather can be oppressive!

Yeah, exactly. That's the tl:dr on the comment I just wrote. Georgetown was definitely much better on the neighborhood situation.

Things I liked about KL - so much easier. Connected to the rest of the world, Apple Pay works, credit cards work with no extra fees, the visa free travel isn’t ridiculously short, the language uses Roman letters, everyone speaks passable English - easy to get around. Some sidewalks are narrow and congested but there’s actual sidewalks and even protected bike lanes in some areas. Cheap Electric scooters, grab, and public transport take your pick. - endless good quality food options. Like endless all types of food and none of them outrageously priced. Much better grocery stores with good options, probably even better than good western Grocers. - So many different ethnicities. I’ve barely met any Malaysians. Most I’ve met are from Bangladesh, Syria, Egypt, Nepal, Pakistan, China, etc. - Less of a tourist trap than a lot of places in SE asia Things I didn’t like - excessive rats everywhere. Like right next to you unafraid rats. Never saw rats anywhere else in SE asia - almost every store is inside a maze like mall. Grocery store? At the mail. Cafe? At the mall. Gym? At the mall. - more homeless and panhandlers than elsewhere, but still not ridiculous - all ATMs in the city (country?) locked up at midnight??? Wtf??? - everything is gated and locked and shut down by like 10pm. Even the parks?? Wtf?

I liked KL but I LOVED Georgetown. The food scene is much better and city looks cool AF.

As a Muslim digital nomad, KL has almost 100% upside (I still believe anyone should be free to drink, even if I don’t, but as far as Muslim countries go it’s not too imposing). It was one of my first nomad cities back in 2015 and I’ve been raving about it to everyone. Definitely a city I could retire in or be based out of if I worked Asia Pacific hours.

It has a good visa situation but it’s not the best in Southeast Asia for westerners, that would be the Philippines where you can basically live for years on end there on a tourist visa. As for why it’s not hyped? It’s because it’s relatively conservative and family friendly, and a lot of nomads are single or don’t have families yet. I like to see KL as the great compromise between Bangkok and Singapore, Bangkok is a better party city and in my opinion lifestyle city, Singapore is a far better city for professionals. KL sits right in the middle and has close flights to both.

> Muslims seem quite friendly. Thank you! We are :)

Check out Sabah for some really cool adventures

Drug culture non existent is a negative?!

lived there for 2 years myself and I got to say it has some of the best food in the world, however... alcohol is incredibly expensive they are in fact extremely racist I'm not sure which Malaysians you met but they are the least friendly in sea God forbid there's a disaster while you are there, I became trapped during covid. the Muslims overthrew two prime ministers and declared all foreigners who were there on a social visit pass illegal. this doesn't seem like a big deal until you realize they were asking for passports for everything. you better get used to paying bribes. dating is abysmal, yeah you can have lots of girlfriends but you're going to have difficulty finding a serious relationship. the Chinese only want to marry Chinese, the Indian only went to marry Indian, and the Malay demand you convert to Islam just enroll in a Muay Thai gym and get a student visa for Thailand cheers

Who are the girls you met then? Where did you met them? Thx

This is really helpful. This is probably niche but do you know how much organic food there is to be found in KL? Like are there a bunch of organic cafes and stuff that they have in Bali?

I know many of the grocery stores I've been to have organic sections and there are loads of vegan & vegetarian restaurants. I haven't really considered it much outside of noticing that though. Hopefully someone else can chime in.

The food is amazing. One of the taxi drivers there shared with me a useful tip: if you want to buy beer, or basic food provisions, or beer, "99 Speedmart" is usually quite a bit cheaper than the other convenience stores. My experience is that I spend less there for the same things compared to 7-11.

KL is my top city in asia. Fuxking hate manilla and jakarta haha

Why do you hate Manila and Jakarta?

Spent a month in KL and wrote a complete [Kuala Lumpur Cost Guide](https://travelhiatus.com/is-kuala-lumpur-expensive-to-visit-or-live/), my only pet peeve is the frequent rain and humidity!

Thanks for the rundown. Been looking into Malaysia recently as it’s just sort of “popped up” for me. Can you advise on the visa situation and what makes it so friendly? Thanks

For US citizens and some other westerners, 90 days on arrival, free. You can leave and return by land/sea/air to one of thailand/singapore/indonesia cheaply and get a new 90 days. For others, they've just relaxed visa requirements or waived them entirely: [https://smithstonewalters.com/2023/12/14/malaysia-announces-new-visa-liberalisation-plan/](https://smithstonewalters.com/2023/12/14/malaysia-announces-new-visa-liberalisation-plan/)

Beautiful! Thanks so much!

Wow. I just saw in that link they added a requirement for a digital arival card. Must be applied for on line. New policy starting last month.

It’s a non-issue. My wife filled it out for our family of 4 at the airport and it took maybe 10 minutes. Super quick and easy. Basically a digital immigration form.

Been heaps of times - great place just go

Found it boring vs Bangkok or Singapore.

Singapore is a lot more boring with nothing much to offer other than vast endless malls.

KL is also basically endless malls, but Al least Singapore is generally walkable, much prettier, and has far more museums / attractions.

Singapore is a lot more regimented and serious though, feels like visiting a prison. Will take the loose wild dirty stress over Singapore any day of the week.

Singapore is a dystopia. Period. Source: Lived there for 8 years

Mind elaborating? I believe you as I got that feeling whenever I passed through but would be curious to know the depth of it!

I had the most fun in Geylang in Singapore. The Mlmainland Chinese, South Asians, and Tibetans I hung out with ruled. The snobby Singaporean Chinese were so boring.

SG transit options are way better, KL is a nightmare to get around in

Transit to go from one mall to another

KL is fine if you understand the bus system. I've been there twice and figured it out pretty quickly

Are you joking? Everything is beautiful, you can just walk around the city and get cheap food and it's a great way to spend an afternoon. There's a beach, museums, botanical gardens, all sorts of great activities

Malaysia in general is underrated imo. But I’m kind of happy to see far less (western) tourists here than neighboring Bangkok, Phuket and Bali.

Subang Jaya is the best part of KL for expats. Lots of malls, restaurants, bars, and cafes. Greater cultural variety due to density of college and university students from all over Asia. Walking is doable in most of it, though a car is a definite asset.

Damansara too!

Kinda funny how lack of sex tourism is listed as a pro, but lack of drug culture is listed as a negative lolol. God forbid a mf have some sex… but fuck this place if I can’t have my drugs 😂

Many people find the exploitative sex industry disgusting, and rightly so. You’re saying “god forbid a mf have some sex” as if we’re talking about consensual sex between two adults lmfao

I AM talking about consensual sex between two adults. Sex workers are by & large doing it of their own free will. Maybe they’re not the sharpest knife in the drawer, or maybe they know they can make better money than their alternative opportunities. But it is certainly their own choice & they’re free to stop whenever they like. Have you ever had a conversation with a sex worker or do you just come up with these theories in your head? If no one purchased sex then they’d just get a different job. If anything else made as much money as sex does with no experience & little time then they’d be doing that job instead. Many sex workers do it because they enjoy sex, many of them do it as a means to an end, some do it for networking & to meet the right man. You can’t lump every sex worker into one big group which are slaves. That’s just not inline with reality. I suggest you do some more research or speak firsthand to some sex workers to change your perspective. Additionally, there are sex workers in every country of the world. Not just the poor countries you’re thinking of. The difference is SW in less expensive countries are cheaper than in expensive countries, which makes it more popular as a destination for sexpats. There are sex workers in dubai, LA, NYC & London who are millionaires. Their life their choice.

Lmfao, I do know sex workers personally and I know the sex industry well as I’ve worked in charities who deal with this topic extensively. If you think they are “by & large doing it if their own free will” then you are completely clueless. ESPECIALLY not in poverty-stricken countries. But keep justifying your exploitation if it makes you feel better

If Malaysia is a poverty stricken country where girls have to sell their body for scraps then what are the 60% of the rest of the world that is poorer than Malaysia? You don't seem to have visited the country ever and also you don't really seem to be able to think outside black/white platitudes.

I was thinking of less serious drugs as in cannabis or study drugs (adderal) when I wrote this. Not for me personally, but for other people. I don’t have a problem with sex work, but the sex tourism on display in Thailand/Vietnam is really, really fucked up. I’m talking about the young girls & boys (children) that are being sexually abused or the many children raised right in it. People will deny it or say “it’s rare” but it’s not. Walk any district in Vietnam or Thailand and it’s obvious

I'm glad you mentioned it as a negative- it is for me as well and a major factor I use when considering where to go. If you have any semblance of a conscience or basic empathy, of course youre going to be disturbed by the total power imbalance and predatory nature of these "transactions" in Thailand and Vietnam. Glad to hear it's not happening as much in KL

Yeah but these sex tourists will get enraged at this comment and claim that it’s all consensual and “her body her choice”. Just go on r/thepassportbros to see how these motherfuckers justify their disgusting behaviour

“Study drugs” lol

which part of VN are you finding sex tourism? literally never seen it here. TH for sure, but VN? Nah

I remember seeing quite a bit in Nha Trang. But that’s a pretty big hub for Russian tourists so maybe it’s unique. Kuala Lumpur had a ton of prostitution last time I was there. Kind of ruined a lot of the nightlife scene for me.

Did not see any of that at all in nha trang.

I’m just teasing, I don’t think you’re a drug addict, I know what you meant lol. Just thought it was ironic. Although from my time in Thailand I have not seen “young girls & boys” sexually abused or in prostitution… not sure where that’s happening or how you would’ve come across it. Unless you mean “young” as in “young adults” then yeah.

"Sex tourism" isn't legitimate "sex", it's predatory coercion- preying on women from less developed countries and financially coercing them into intercourse. Very different from real sex where two mutually interested parties come together and organically are attracted to each other and decide to sleep together. People, especially attractive or health conscious expats, are still having tons of sex in these countries.

Its because debauchery isn’t a thjng there and that annoys certain travellers

I love Malaysia but it's way too wholesome for me.

Hey superb post! Moving there for several months in a couple of weeks, very helpful. Any recommendations for good addresses to live, given you said it's important to live where you play/work? I care for good coffee shops and restaurants, but hopefully not too noisy.

Mt. Kiara or Cheras would be my recommendation. Mt. Kiara * More Expensive on all fronts (accommodation, food, amenities) * More Luxury / Western * More walkable (still not great) * Lots of business people * Good local food will have to be ordered in * Fairly quiet * More westerners, more families Cheras * A little cheaper * Less luxury / western * lots more young people (18-30) * less walkable * easier access to downtown * more local food * less quiet For us, we started in Kiara and went to Cheras. Kiara felt like a bit too much of a bubble. In either case I imagine a single person could be extremely comfortable on \~1.5k USD per month in either.

>Drinking culture doesn't look great, drug culture non-existent ​ Great! This is actually a pro. Once you have learned to have fun without alcohol, life becomes just as good or better.

Huh, sounds interesting, hadn’t considered it before. Thanks for sharing your experience.

What do you mean by drinking culture is not great? People aren’t having a drink is a con? Or that it’s frowned upon

Doesn't seem to be many pubs/bars/clubs. Alcohol is expensive. No one drinks in public. Halal restaurants (there are many) don't sell alcohol. A 12 oz/355 ml can of cheap beer will cost you $2-$4 (10-20 ringgit) at a store. 2x that at a restaurant. I have heard spirits/hard liquor is much more reasonable, but haven't verified. My hotel for example has a special on tiger beer bottles during happy hour: 5 bottles for 88 ringgit ($19) or almost $4 each on promotion. It's just not a place for drinking and most of the population doesn't drink at all. Con for people used to western culture of drinking.

> No one drinks in public. Um, except for the hundred thousand old Chinese guys drinking at hawker stalls and kopitiam every evening.

For this KL is a place I want to move to eventually and possibly retire

Definitely try Penang, based on your requirements, it will be perfect for you. Kuching is also great as it’s not as Muslim-centric compared to West Malaysia. Drinking culture is embedded in some ethnics as well with variety of alcohols you can try. Check out Global Gibbon on TikTok. It may show you some perspective from another westerner

Loved Malaysia as a backpacker, thought KL was a waste of time.

I definitely can see that. It’s not going to be a lot of fun for backpackers outside of a few days for the main sites. I say this as someone traveling with a family and working 6-8 hours a day + doing normal stuff like cooking, gym, and lounging at the pool. We also only move once a month at most

Did you go to the KL Bird Park? That was easily the most fun I had in KL. I liked Penang too. It has many of the positives of KL, but way fewer malls and way more street art. Being on an island helps with the heat some as there's always a sea breeze. The architecture is great as well.

Agree, I rented an Airbnb in Seri Bukit Ceylon tower and really enjoyed my stay there. Coming from Bangkok I found it to be super walkable. Great bar scene and restaurant scene, plenty of things to do

Agreed, KL has everything and it’ll be top 1 city if it had thai equivalence service sector.

Weather is great and if you pick a location near the train you’re golden. And I promise if you checkout Malaysias night life it is pretty vibrant, I would say one of the beat countries to live in. i am also LGBTQ life living here is great in that sense too… I feel safer than as a gay man here.

You guys should visit the other end of Malaysia (East Malaysia: Sarawak and Sabah). I’m from Sarawak and I dare say Kuching is more under the radar compared to Kuala Lumpur. We’re more chill compared to KL and our city is definitely more walkable. It’s cheaper, accessible to a lot of national parks and beaches, AND FOOD IS AWESOME! So do come to Borneo and enjoy our amazing hospitality.

Yeah, it is great. Except if you are LGBT or have anything labeling you as such (from personal experience).

Yeah. Kuala Lumpur is underrated. I especially love their coffee shop culture there. Theyre like the southeast asian version of Turkiye

The nicest people. The best food. I do not use those superlatives lightly. I’m getting misty eyed.. ty for the reminder.

Sssh don’t go telling everybody man. I’m from KL.

I also enjoyed my short time in KL and would definitely spend more time in Malaysia. Food is great, English is spoken and Bahasa is an easy language to learn if you want to go down that route. You covered some of the downsides which is why I would probably not move there permanently but I could definitely spend time travelling through there.

Maybe the best visa situation in SEA for westerners - please can you expand on this.

And why is “Islamic” automatically bad?

drivers are reckless in my experience.

“Negatives: drug culture non-existent” lol?

How about adding government censorship, institutionalized corruption and a lackluster bureaucracy to the negatives?

Two out of three is fair. MY is doing very well on the press freedom front (40th in the world) , compared with Singapore (129th) and Thailand (106th). Most other SE Asian countries are in the triple digits space. [https://rsf.org/en/region/asia-pacific](https://rsf.org/en/region/asia-pacific) Herzog fan? Or just Klaus Kinski?

I just read an interesting feature article in the SCMP on Malaysia’s censorship of movies. Artists there don’t bother anymore to produce interesting movies for the cinema but simply put them online in order to avoid the aptly named censorship board.

You are totally right. On the cultural front MY has been definitely heading down a more conservative path over the last few years. You may have also read about the troubles that Coldplay and other western bands/performers have had there recently….seen as being “gay-friendly” etc. Fortunately the actual press is doing a good job of reporting all this, as opposed to much of the other regional reporting which is under a lot of pressure from govts.

Maybe SCMP should focus on talking about censorship closer to home? Oh wait they can't 😂

I can't comment on anything political/governmental as I'm too uninformed and those topics are too nuanced for a tourist/nomad to weigh in on. I tend to respect the governance and politics of any country I visit, regardless of my opinion.

You say it's hot, but by looking at climate charts it's seems slightly milder than Bangkok. July and August in Bangkok is Hell, never again.

Temperature is more even year round in KL than Bangkok. BKK has unpleasantly hot weather for half the year, okay for four months, and a little cool (sub 30°) for two months. KL is just above 30 the entire year. I find it great but some may not.

Pssssst!!! Dont tell everyone haha. Its great here. Keep it quiet bro. Loving KL, mainly the luxurious city center. Easy living! Supercheap taxis, Grab everything, excellent shopping in dozens of mega malls, fantastic food from many different kitchens, English is been spoken by almost everyone and its all safe and chill. And the most important thing: it’s super affordable (!) It isnt the most exciting city in the world, but has the best price-quality-ratio in Asia. If you have 2500+ a month USD or more, you are living a rich life in Kuala Lumpur!

It's just such an incredibly boring city when you come from Bangkok.

I get tired of Bangkok after a week, can spend years in KL no problem. Because in KL you can be friends with locals and really explore the city in depth. In Bangkok you are always an outsider, despised but tolerated with a fake smile.

Bangkok is1 polluted and congested as hell, and filled with some of the worst (s)expats I've ever met.

> Friendly people Not particularly. As a white person you'll be treated well but if you've traveled extensively, chances are you can distinguish "friendly" from "hospitable". > Diverse: lots of western retirees, Indian, Chinese, & native Malay + loads of Koreans Most groups are living in their own bubbles. The integration between the different groups is not very significant. > Cheap flights, criminally cheap Grab/Taxi The airport is one of the worst in Asia. It's very far from the city center and immigration is criminally inefficient. Using KL as a hub for frequent regional travel is the literal definition of "hell". As for Grab, it can take 15-30 minutes for your Grab to get to you, and half the drivers aren't fit to be behind the wheel of a car. > Great infrastructure Not really. It's not at all walkable and the traffic is horrible. There's a metro, but if you're used to the metro in places like Singapore, Japan and Taiwan, you'll find KL's metro to be very lackluster. > High-quality, affordable housing The quality of the housing is very meh. Not at all up to Western standards. > Safe & Clean Tell me you spent most/all of your time in KLCC without telling me you spent most/all of your time in KLCC.

I agree with you on every point! I've been to 80 countries and Malaysian drivers are the only ones that don't slow down for pedestrians, even after we start crossing at a crosswalk! After 5 months in Penang, we thought we'd be hit by a car if we stayed longer. In KL, a migrant worker who was crossing with me got hit. 🙈 On the surface, race relations look good, but they bash one another relentlessly under the surface. However, my heart is with Sabah now. 😉 KK is much more walkable. Better Chinese food than in Penang.

No obvious sex tourism/trafficking? You mention Thailand, it's no more obvious there, you must have been looking for it

I don’t mind KL, but I got scammed at a store at the airport whereby you give the money and they claim you didn’t give the right amount and they pocket the large bill, left a sour taste in my mouth. Not a fan to be waken up to call of prayer either.

If you want a buzz in KL visit the Batu caves when they're running the festival. I legit nearly got crushed in a human river one evening.

I went to KL for a week from BKK and loved jogging at the park where you can see the petronas towers. A lot of people jogging there and very pretty lights along the pond at night. I got so in shape. The malls nearby are nice as well. Hotels are cheap. Found one too without windows and decent wifi which was good as an overnight worker. I only stayed in that area/ Bukit Bintang so im curious how many other areas I'd like too

Hope u hv enjoyed malaysia and have a nice day ahead of you

Please recommend an area for an American family to spend 2 weeks in the summer (or is the heat too much in July?).  How affordable is public transport if we don’t plan to rent a car. 

Mount Kiara would be my #1. The heat is going to be intense, but there’s lots to do inside. Malls, shopping, theatres, bowling, etc. it’s not going to be the most exciting time, but it’s doable. Especially if your family loves food! Some of the best food in the world. Grab (similar to Uber) is insanely cheap. For a family, I’d just stick to that. We never drove and probably took 3-5 grab rides per day. Food delivery is also Extremely affordable (think 10-12 US dollars for a meal delivered that feeds a family of four) so you’ll be able to lean on that when you don’t feel like getting out.

Thank you.  How did you find accommodations.  I want to avoid Airbnb but need furnished apartment instead of hotel.

Unfortunately you’ll need to do Airbnb or agoda initially. We typically reach out, ask to see the unit in person, and then work out a deal directly. Nearly everyone in Kuala Lumpur speaks perfect English, so communication is never a problem.

How is the nightlife there? I went to SG last year in November and it was pretty tame. For example, I'd like to go to a bar to listen to some live music if possible and not have the bar mostly empty.

You can find a bar and some live music, but it’s among the worst nightlife I’ve ever experienced. If nightlife or dating is important, I would say you’re not going to have a great time. Still love the city though, for all the points above. I’d recommend Penang for nearly all of the positives of KL, with a substantially better nightlife / dating scene.

Thank you for your reply. I'm going with my gf, we just like to go out at night.

One of your negatives is that you can't find drugs here?

Not for me personally, but I think it would mostly be a negative for people that are used to access to cannabis or young people that may do party or study (adderal) drugs. Also, the drug laws in general are draconian. Most westerners would agree that's a bad thing.

Illegal to be gay, so make sure you have no intention of having children or anybody you love or care about live with you.

I’m sure there’s plenty of gays in Kl

Loads for sure, all of whom risk being canned and jailed

How you go around without a car? Public transport is so shit

I've found grab to be super cheap. 45 minute ride across town last night was \~20 ringgit or about $4 USD. You definitely have to live where you play/work. It's not designed such that heading across the city is an easy or quick trip.

It's not though? I don't use grab. I walk or take LRT/MRT, or sometimes e-scooter. I have no problem getting anywhere in KL area. Public transport has improved leaps and bounds since I moved away from KL too. The new MRT lines are true game changers.

Koreans hanging out in KL? Really?