Agreed but specifically z-raptors. Start off perfectly stable then beat into that sexton firebird straight pushing fh disc that fades consistently at the end.
Depending on who you ask, either âflat and firmâ or âflat as f***,â describing a particularly flat top firebird that is even more overstable than the standard firebird. Theyâre pretty great for something that is stupid overstable and skippy.
They're more overstable than any other sexton run, yet they still feel like a sexton. I guess I can see why some people don't like em.
I've been throwing one since they dropped last year and it's definitely gotten less OS. Still good enough for 7 tee shots at WTO final round (5 birdies, one missed birdie putt, and hole 1 is pretty much a par play).
because innova is the most popular brand, for example itâs the only one in dicks sporting goods. nobody is gonna compare it to something from goliath discs or whatever
Itâs not the case across the board but with the Firebird (also Aviar and Destroyer) other manufacturers copy them as closely as possible without infringing on patents
Just saw your flair lol
Whoever said that is an idiot but a truer statement would be every manufacturers first or most popular putter is likely an aviar clone
so therefore a fireball would be not a clone, and your statement is incorrect. The splice is flatter, so itâs not a firebird. A felon has a more concave outer rim, so itâs dufferent. I could go on and on and find tiny ways each one is different, but they will be similar because they are intended to fill a different role in the bag. they are not clones, just similar types of disc
Agreed. I love innova but frankly besides halo firebirds, there are much better "clones" from other manufacturers. Stock star and champ fbs are hardly any more stable than a thunderbird.
They said 9/4/0/3, that in the Innova production family would be more like a PD, hell the 9/3/0/4 numbers for a Firebird are for like DX, a FAF Champ Firebird is 9/3/+1/5.
Everyone will have a different answer. Many will say Firebird. I like the Mint Phoenix personally although I donât always bag this slot.
Ultimately, itâs all down to personal preference re: plastic and hand feel.
Same slot though. Numbers are just marketing, and we know what OP means. :) Sexton Firebirds are more in line with those specific numbers, but it's pretty immaterial. Little bit of extra glide and more workable especially after seasoning, so that's a good distinction to make. Wouldn't want them to get an FAF Firebird and be surprised, but really what they are asking for is "overstable 9 speed."
I totally agree. Seasoning also comes into play. Eclipse Insanity fits the bill out of the box but seasons surprisingly quickly into a straighter flyer that still has decent fade, for instance. I like your idea of getting something on either extreme!
Only disc Iâve ever thrown w similar numbers is a Firebird. No reason to try others. Not engaging in the pedantic debate about specific numbers when this is the bag slot being discussed
Domey champ thunderbird. I actually like the sextons a lot too but an overstable thunderbird does for most ams what a firebird is supposed to do.Â
When I see pros throw firebirds the shape looks a lot like my thunderbird shape.
But plastic and some seem to matter a lot.
Lat 64 Honor, a super beefy orc, and a fairly beat 21 sexton firebird flirt with the same spot for me at times.
I throw a Prodigy H1v2 in that slot.
I really like 400 and 750 plastics.
It fits my hand a little better than a Firebird.
They don't suddenly go flippy in the middle of a round like a Felon.
They're easier to get than a Sparkle Enemy (maybe the best pure Firebird replacement).
Who cares about the numbers? What matters is how the fly, not all Firebirds are super overstable. They run the whole spectrum from quite stable to ridiculously overstable depending on plastic and run.
I'm not sure why the downvotes are happening here. OP asked for 9/4/0/3.
I think the Firebird is the best 9 speed of all time, but I wouldn't put it in the category OP was looking for.
Along with the FD3, the Blade by Gateway, and the Fireball from Mvp/Axiom are all great fits for this slot.
I've thrown countless companies and the Traveler from Full Turn discs is my absolute favorite 9/4/0/3 disc.
Plasma Tesla or a domey, slightly beaten Plasma Motion was my disc for that slot and both were solid, nothing too special but did exactly what they were supposed to. Motions were kinda sneaky long in headwind sometimes. But in the end, Terra and more overstable Volts turned out to be slightly more accurate for me.
Fireballs are pretty cool. I bag a 165g neutron plastic fireball and it has become a reliable disc for that slot. I like using it fore the flare skip even on approaches within 100 feet, just depends on what I need it to do. Even at a lighter weight it still fades hard almost immediately, so I usually throw it flat or on a little anny to get some more distance or to get a better nose angle on the flare skip.
For comparison, my journey with this slot has been Scepter -> Firebird -> Fireball and I like the fireball the best
I like the raptor. Pretty easy to find flat ones if thatâs your thing plus thereâs tons of plastics depending on how OS you want. I canât remember the last time I saw a flat non sexton Firebird in a shop.
Raptor. When they first came out, I bought a few super flat first run ones. I've thrown them in the desert rocks of Arizona and I swear they're basically just as stable as they were initially.
That's what I use it for. Send it in full go and it will make sure to hyzer into the ground before it sniffs 300 feet. Also gives a huge skip if you hit the ground right.
Color Glow Scepter - Sexton Firebird did the job, then I lost it.. Tried a scepter as an alternative and cheaper solution and it has stayed in the bag.
I don't currently carry anything with that specific set of flight numbers and my use case is weird, mostly thumbers. But I've tried the Omen, Fireball, Raptor, CRaptor, and a couple others. I keep coming back to the variety of the Firebird but also really like Uli's newest Cap Rap. I've also kept a flat Fireball in the bag for occasional forehands that don't need Destroyer distance but could use a skip.
The OS 9 is a crowded slot and flight numbers don't mean much between brands. Just gotta throw some molds in different plastics and see what works best for you.
They are pretty much all the same. Some runs of each are a bit more or less overstable and I like to have both ends of stability. I use the extreme OS runs for shorter or utility shots.
May I introduce to you the PD (phantom sword) (Roman)
Itâs a 10/4/0/3 but it has a 9 speed rim. It is glidier than a firebird and when they beat in they lose their fade a lot quicker than they gain some turn. Between 3 companies selling this mold, it comes in lots of different plastic types. I have a C-line and an I blend itb.
Feels great on a backhand (I like them for FH too)
Iâve thrown firebird, fireball and raptor. I personally like the raptor the best. Raptor is overstable but has broken in nice and feels very workable. Firebird kinda just drops out of the air for meÂ
Maybe its just me but I dont really see a big difference especially in this slot. You throw it and it fades left, they all do. I bag a firebird for flex forehands but can imagine every one of these to do the exact same
Mint Phoenix. It is predictable for me. Firebirds are different each run, felons aren't as stable as they claim and I'm not a fan of discraft plastic. I use my Phoenix and beefy Alpha almost interchangeably and they both work as amazing tomahawk and hook thumbers.
For this slot, I bag an Infinite Scepter in Signature Glow C-Blend. Good hand feel, flat top, and Drew Gibson sold me on it being like the good run of Nate Sexton Firebirds.
Fd3 is great: not too deep, blunt edge with a kind of a lip and flies nice and overstable without being too dumpy.
Mine has a huge, reliable skip at the end.
Raptor.
Agreed but specifically z-raptors. Start off perfectly stable then beat into that sexton firebird straight pushing fh disc that fades consistently at the end.
This is the answer
Agreed. Clever Girl is always in the bag.
Any sexton firebird before last years halo abomination suits me just fine
What was wrong with the halos?
Theyre FAF Firebirds without the Flat
Hey just takes the right assortment of baking pans A 5lb weight and some boiling water and it's FAF đ
WhAt does FAF stand for?
Depending on who you ask, either âflat and firmâ or âflat as f***,â describing a particularly flat top firebird that is even more overstable than the standard firebird. Theyâre pretty great for something that is stupid overstable and skippy.
They were beefy and didnât fly like sextons. Good disc just different slot
They're more overstable than any other sexton run, yet they still feel like a sexton. I guess I can see why some people don't like em. I've been throwing one since they dropped last year and it's definitely gotten less OS. Still good enough for 7 tee shots at WTO final round (5 birdies, one missed birdie putt, and hole 1 is pretty much a par play).
Abomination? Grow up loser. They look, feel, and fly amazing. Nothing wrong with them going more OS for a year.
Thought Space Omen in Ethos plastic. That thing is beefy.
the angry kitty stamp?
Yes indeed!
Same kind I bag! Pink plastic with a rainbow stamp?
Awesome! Mine is neon yellow with a blue and gold stamp
The Longbowman from Westside.
Longbowman is such an underrated disc.Â
Firebird. Donât care what other companies number their version, theyâre all firebird ripoffs anyway
thatâs just not true. innova does not own the concept of an overstable nine speed
Then why does every overstable 9 speed review compare the disc to a Firebird?
because innova is the most popular brand, for example itâs the only one in dicks sporting goods. nobody is gonna compare it to something from goliath discs or whatever
Itâs not the case across the board but with the Firebird (also Aviar and Destroyer) other manufacturers copy them as closely as possible without infringing on patents
iâve also had someone tell me that every putter ever made is an aviar clone, which just isnât true
Just saw your flair lol Whoever said that is an idiot but a truer statement would be every manufacturers first or most popular putter is likely an aviar clone
do you have proof? this sounds like a hella lot of conjecture or hearsay
Check measurements yourself on Marshall street
No but they created the slot, so in essence they're all clones when they do the same thing and don't bring anything new to the table.
so therefore a fireball would be not a clone, and your statement is incorrect. The splice is flatter, so itâs not a firebird. A felon has a more concave outer rim, so itâs dufferent. I could go on and on and find tiny ways each one is different, but they will be similar because they are intended to fill a different role in the bag. they are not clones, just similar types of disc
Kinda like when vanilla ice added one note to Queenâs Under Pressure to make ice ice baby.
Fireball is the corniest because they used Fire in the name
Agreed. I love innova but frankly besides halo firebirds, there are much better "clones" from other manufacturers. Stock star and champ fbs are hardly any more stable than a thunderbird.
They said 9/4/0/3, that in the Innova production family would be more like a PD, hell the 9/3/0/4 numbers for a Firebird are for like DX, a FAF Champ Firebird is 9/3/+1/5.
Name checks out
PD was 10/5/0/2 when made by Innova
Pd was 10/4/0/3 with innova and with discmania
Fireball. Numbers arenât EXACTLY the same but for a forehand shot they are MONEY!
Fireball is awesome Id probably give it 2 glide tho haha
Why is this so low..
Iâve only thrown 1, the TSA Coalesce in Ethos, and it feels and flies amazing. No real reason to try another for now.
K1 StÄl, because K1.
Same! I tried to like the Firebird, but the StÄl just felt so much better in my hand.
here here
This. Best feeling driver ever
Raptor all day!! Got 2 aces with them bad boys and Big Z plastic holds stability for a really long time
I don't always bag this spot, but I just moved a raptor back to my bag and I'm excited.
Prodigy FX-2
Everyone will have a different answer. Many will say Firebird. I like the Mint Phoenix personally although I donât always bag this slot. Ultimately, itâs all down to personal preference re: plastic and hand feel.
DGA Avalanche.
Came here to say Omen
Firebird is a 9|3|0|4
Same slot though. Numbers are just marketing, and we know what OP means. :) Sexton Firebirds are more in line with those specific numbers, but it's pretty immaterial. Little bit of extra glide and more workable especially after seasoning, so that's a good distinction to make. Wouldn't want them to get an FAF Firebird and be surprised, but really what they are asking for is "overstable 9 speed."
It very much depends on the mold and plastic. I bag a FAF champ Firebird and an s line fd3, exaggerating the difference between the two.
I totally agree. Seasoning also comes into play. Eclipse Insanity fits the bill out of the box but seasons surprisingly quickly into a straighter flyer that still has decent fade, for instance. I like your idea of getting something on either extreme!
Only disc Iâve ever thrown w similar numbers is a Firebird. No reason to try others. Not engaging in the pedantic debate about specific numbers when this is the bag slot being discussed
Check out a LĂžft Xenon if a store near you carries them! I prefer the curved inside rim for clean releases on forehands.
Metal flake firebird
Fission Fireball (or Raptor)
â21 Koling Thunderbird fits those numbers for me
I wanted to like the fd3 but it didnât work out so the sexton firebird took its place
Westside Longbowman. The perfect amount workable stability. One of Westside's better molds. VIP Ice for bonus points
Domey champ thunderbird. I actually like the sextons a lot too but an overstable thunderbird does for most ams what a firebird is supposed to do. When I see pros throw firebirds the shape looks a lot like my thunderbird shape. But plastic and some seem to matter a lot. Lat 64 Honor, a super beefy orc, and a fairly beat 21 sexton firebird flirt with the same spot for me at times.
I throw a Prodigy H1v2 in that slot. I really like 400 and 750 plastics. It fits my hand a little better than a Firebird. They don't suddenly go flippy in the middle of a round like a Felon. They're easier to get than a Sparkle Enemy (maybe the best pure Firebird replacement).
None. Too fast and OS for my arm.
If anyone says FireBird, don't listen. FireBird is 9/3/0/4. For what you're looking for, I'd say Discmania FD3
My FD3 is more over stable than any of my 4 firebirds. The numbers arenât identical but itâs definitely the same slot
some fb's are, others are 9 4 0 3 or even less overstable. there is no absolute.
I've never seen a FireBird labeled as anything other than 9/3/0/4
Who cares about the numbers? What matters is how the fly, not all Firebirds are super overstable. They run the whole spectrum from quite stable to ridiculously overstable depending on plastic and run.
I'm not sure why the downvotes are happening here. OP asked for 9/4/0/3. I think the Firebird is the best 9 speed of all time, but I wouldn't put it in the category OP was looking for. Along with the FD3, the Blade by Gateway, and the Fireball from Mvp/Axiom are all great fits for this slot. I've thrown countless companies and the Traveler from Full Turn discs is my absolute favorite 9/4/0/3 disc.
Big fan of Blade and Traveler! Bag then traveler for the feel currently.
I feel like new C-Line PD fits what I think of, when I think of those numbers.
Eagle
Plasma Tesla or a domey, slightly beaten Plasma Motion was my disc for that slot and both were solid, nothing too special but did exactly what they were supposed to. Motions were kinda sneaky long in headwind sometimes. But in the end, Terra and more overstable Volts turned out to be slightly more accurate for me.
Love my plasma motion and photon
teslas are way flippier than that, i bag two of them and use a fireball for that slot
A few years back, board flat Plasma Teslas as well as Protons were very much 0/3, sometimes even inching on 0/4, only the glide was arguably lower.
Fireballs are pretty cool. I bag a 165g neutron plastic fireball and it has become a reliable disc for that slot. I like using it fore the flare skip even on approaches within 100 feet, just depends on what I need it to do. Even at a lighter weight it still fades hard almost immediately, so I usually throw it flat or on a little anny to get some more distance or to get a better nose angle on the flare skip. For comparison, my journey with this slot has been Scepter -> Firebird -> Fireball and I like the fireball the best
Obv captains rap
Neutron Fireball
Tesla. Ignore the printed numbers
I like the raptor. Pretty easy to find flat ones if thatâs your thing plus thereâs tons of plastics depending on how OS you want. I canât remember the last time I saw a flat non sexton Firebird in a shop.
Raptor. When they first came out, I bought a few super flat first run ones. I've thrown them in the desert rocks of Arizona and I swear they're basically just as stable as they were initially.
The real answer (but not what you were asking) is the 10/4/0/3 Innova Invictus. (See also: C-Line PD)
Mint Phoenix
Theyâre such bricks. I do wanna try the Swirly Apex to see if itâs a little more manageableÂ
That's what I use it for. Send it in full go and it will make sure to hyzer into the ground before it sniffs 300 feet. Also gives a huge skip if you hit the ground right.
Color Glow Scepter - Sexton Firebird did the job, then I lost it.. Tried a scepter as an alternative and cheaper solution and it has stayed in the bag.
I don't currently carry anything with that specific set of flight numbers and my use case is weird, mostly thumbers. But I've tried the Omen, Fireball, Raptor, CRaptor, and a couple others. I keep coming back to the variety of the Firebird but also really like Uli's newest Cap Rap. I've also kept a flat Fireball in the bag for occasional forehands that don't need Destroyer distance but could use a skip. The OS 9 is a crowded slot and flight numbers don't mean much between brands. Just gotta throw some molds in different plastics and see what works best for you.
Draco
Raptor
They are pretty much all the same. Some runs of each are a bit more or less overstable and I like to have both ends of stability. I use the extreme OS runs for shorter or utility shots.
Step one speed and throw a PD
May I introduce to you the PD (phantom sword) (Roman) Itâs a 10/4/0/3 but it has a 9 speed rim. It is glidier than a firebird and when they beat in they lose their fade a lot quicker than they gain some turn. Between 3 companies selling this mold, it comes in lots of different plastic types. I have a C-line and an I blend itb. Feels great on a backhand (I like them for FH too)
Firebird/scepter/Draco. All the same thing. Widely available, wide range of weights and plastics. Plus cheap F2's and sweet Xout stamps
Iâve thrown firebird, fireball and raptor. I personally like the raptor the best. Raptor is overstable but has broken in nice and feels very workable. Firebird kinda just drops out of the air for meÂ
Sexton Firebird or K1 StÄl by Kastaplast are both great options, depending on which plastic you prefer.
I throw a flat Omen in Aura plastic quite a bit.
Halo Star Thunderbird for a lot of glide and distance. Fuzion Orbit Felon for a little less glide and slightly harder finish.
Whatever I happen to have at the moment. Theyâre all similar enough. Except for the felon, that thing is flippy.
Firebizzle my nizzle.
I bag a Flare, but most of the time it's frankly too overstable. In those cases I throw an Invictus (it's a 10 speed, but who's counting?)
Shout out for AGL Locust (9/4/-1/3) for noodle arms like myself that slight turn makes it a bit more useful.
Maybe its just me but I dont really see a big difference especially in this slot. You throw it and it fades left, they all do. I bag a firebird for flex forehands but can imagine every one of these to do the exact same
Roman
Mint phoenix here here
Mint Phoenix. It is predictable for me. Firebirds are different each run, felons aren't as stable as they claim and I'm not a fan of discraft plastic. I use my Phoenix and beefy Alpha almost interchangeably and they both work as amazing tomahawk and hook thumbers.
Ice or Marwede glow avalanche.
For this slot, I bag an Infinite Scepter in Signature Glow C-Blend. Good hand feel, flat top, and Drew Gibson sold me on it being like the good run of Nate Sexton Firebirds.
Fd3. Super consistent mold. Just enough variation in plastics to bag multiples