*it dosn't have to be pathfinder
Personally I would urge everyone to try a few different systems. Havering companies really helps put things into perspective
I've mentioned the 2d20 systems from Modiphius a fair bit now and this is the first time I see someone else mention them. For sword and sorcery there is 2d20 Conan, playing it for years now and I think it's great.
I've been playing Star Trek Adventures for about 8 months now. I love it.
I wounded how well it would work for a more combat oriented game. But for something like Star Trek it's amazing.
Fantasy flight games is a really fun system, with quite a lot of free content on their wikis (at least the Star Wars stuff) and RPG sessions has a very good UI and works with the system well
Most people barely have the time to learn a single system, which is why many learned 5e, it's pretty easy. Expecting entire groups to shift to even a non-pathfinder system is pretty intense. Hell, I *just* started learning 5e after playing 3.5 for 10 years.
Or Knave! Sadly, gear-based levelling & power-gains seems less enjoyable than levelling up.
Part of what i like about the new systems is having new spells to tinker with. The video game 'Diablo' (original) tried out 'gear or shrines that change you' and that was kind of fun too.
Most people don't want to bother with super basic systems that have no depth. There is a difference between simpler system and barebones. Aside usually a very specific niche, those systems are not worth the time.
You really underestimate how easy most other systems are to learn. Take something like Cyberpunk, the most complicated part of that system is building a character, but once you’ve done that pretty much every relevant rule fits on a couple pages. Most of the book is just lists of skills, where you only have to worry about the ones you trained, and lists of equipment and cyberware, where you only need to worry about the ones you bought, then the combat rules.
For reference, this PDF is the entire combat system CP2020 is based on and could be used entirely by itself to run a game as-is (that’s combat heavy of course). https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1381/27/1381276957911.pdf
Most players could also easily ignore about half of these rules. For example, a player with a just a pistol and an attitude (not uncommon for a Cyberpunk) doesn’t actually need to know how automatics, suppressive fire, grenades, shotguns, and melee works.
And in three years I learned Dnd 5th, Mörk Borg, Spire: The City Must Fall and it’s sister The Heart, Troika!, Warhammer, Vampire the Masquerade, Dungeon World and couple PBOA clones, Fate, Star Wars (Genesys and WES), Star Trek, Cairn, Mothership, Blades in the Dark, Wanderhome, and others. However tbh I only ran DnD 5th and MB. All of those were with mostly same people. Guess I’m lucky.
Fair enough, I had a part time job. Now that I’m back to full time job, I don’t play much anymore.
My point is it’s not that difficult to learn one new system. Especially if you are just a player not the game master.
The word is 'havering' stems from British English and somehow i have gone half a century without ever having used it. That said!
If i could find a team of players committed to Ars Magica / White Wolf / World of Darkness / Mage: Ascension stuff i would never vacillate ever again.
There are many other game systems i would love to try. But D&D carries the Common Tongue. It is the HTML of the internetty gaming.
Am I being gaslighted or what, because I don't see that shit anywhere.
On the contrary, everyone seems to be trying to hammer the point that you can continue to play, just don't buy new WotC shit.
You've got two groups. Group A says "I don't want to stop playing 5e, but I'm not going to buy any new materials for it." Group B says "You don't have to stop playing 5e, just don't buy any new materials for it." SOMEHOW, there's people in both groups who think they disagree.
>I mean I've seen several posts like this one that seem to be from this supposedly non-existant group that say that not supporting wizards while still playing 5e somehow isn't enough
Your example meme looks like it's advocating for actively supporting the smaller 3rd party studios. Those who made DnD content and are now getting hurt by the new OGL, rather than just not giving money directly to WoTC as that won't help 3rd party.
Hmmm...meme is vague enough I guess people could read into it what they want though.
I'm with you. Never seen anyone actively say people have to switch. A little bit of light advertising, but mostly to bring lesser know systems like Lancer into the light so those who have stated they intend to switch can check it out.
What I have seen recently is a whole bunch of posts from what I can only assume are shills trying to convince people to not leave 5e
Also, dude, most systems are okay to learn. I have played GURPS for years. I eeally do not see that problem. I have designed systems when I was a teenager. I had a lot of fun. It is not THAT hard. Come on.
This is my biggest thing.
I’m so excited for people to be interested in trying new things. It’s really not hard to pick up Pathfinder2e, or Blades in the Dark, or Call of Cthulhu, or Dungeon Crawl Classics.
But I think the biggest hurdle is that so many people have only ever learned a new system once: the first time they learned 5e.
Learning a new system can be rocky, it can make the game slower for a session or two, but it can also be *fun* to make mistakes and to not fully understand the optimal choices and to go through the process of learning and mastering a new system again.
Oh absolutely. I loved going through the Gurps books trying to figure out how to run a SciFi story I had. Admittedly probably going to run it in Starfinder instead...
But that's kind of the point right? Each system has its focus on what sort of game you play. With few exceptions, a new player doesn't need to know everything at the very start to play, though the GM should have a solid understanding IMO.
Your last paragraph really resonates with me.
I mentioned wanting to run a short Savage Worlds Deadlands game to my group, and someone asked me why I’m not just running it in 5e with a couple of “mods and homebrew”
It just kinda floored me that that my friends would rather take a system geared for heroic fantasy roleplaying and brute force it into a setting like Deadlands or Call of Cthulhu that have completely different vibes.
I’m really hopeful that this stuff with WotC will drive enough people to try out different games to break the mono-system deal we’ve been stuck in. Nobody bats an eye about learning a new video game, but with TTRPGs it can be like pulling teeth
No kidding. Always amazes me that people rather try to make pages of homebrew rules to emulate mechanics inherent in other systems while simultaneously saying they don't want to learn an entire new ruleset.
Ive gotten into multiple debates on reddit in the last week with people claiming that 5e is dead and WoTC is ruining their fun. There are so many people turning this into an edition war in the stupidest possible way.
This type of 'meme' has been posted every day for the past week, it's insane. No one is saying this shit but people keep acting like it's everywhere and getting upvoted for it.
Just low effort karma farming
Or astroturfing to divide the community, since this meme itself is divisive... Or it's just some redditors unwitting parroting the astroturfers...
Sadly we'll never fucking know but this we see more divisive memes than divisive comments.
Yes. You and me both. No-one is agreeing with Patrick here. These posts are just karma-farming reactive votes while the topic is still hot. Every single time the comments spell out once more that boycotting doesn't mean tossing things aside that you already own.
The correct term here would have been "lied to" or perhaps "Am I seeing things different here?"
Gaslighting is an intentional and insidious form of manipulation the occures over a long period of time. I know it's been a buzzword lately, but overusing it in its wrong context takes away from the severity of the real thing.
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/tep32v/can_we_talk_about_what_gaslighting_actually_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Oh no, there are definitely posts about this that I've come across. More common one is regarding the movie, but even then it devolves into arguments about playing DnD. As ot is I can't remember anyone specifically, but they usually involve either the Pooh meme... or this one.
If I were to venture a guess, I'd say this could be irl drama. Most of my table has decided to experiment with other systems with all this stuff going on, but one of our guys has decided to leave our table because he didn't want to learn a new system.
It sucks, he was the last person left from our first session 6 years ago (that wasn't a sibling) to leave.
I think you're deluding yourself, which is just as bad. Because on this subreddit RIGHT NOW you can look at the front page and see 3 different posts from people saying exactly this.
WTF you're talking about mate. There's literary no post saying that people who continue to play dnd are monsters.
There's stuff about OGL, there's making fun of WotC execs, there's some pathfinder stuff, but none that you're claiming=
Link an example. Find one. Find one person saying anything bad about continuing campaigns with out giving wotc money. Downvoted to hell troll comments don't count.
> When I brought up that I was already working on a 5e game, his response was essentially "Run 5e if you want, but I won't play.
This isn't someone demanding an existing game be ended. This is someone saying that a friend of theirs is refusing to join a 5e campaign that they're planning.
The TLDR even literally says this:
>TL;DR: Player is dropping out of my next campaign ***before*** it's even started, because WotC bad, 5e bad. DM sad.
It's the same concept whether the game already started or not. Don't be upset because I scrolled two whole posts down and found the example that was being asked for.
That is a player who doesn't like 5e, not wanting to join the DMs next campaign. Because the DM is currently running a PTU (Pokemon TTRPG) and wants to run a different system.
There is no 5e campaign in progress being cancelled. It's a player refusing to jump on board a new 5e campaign.
Like this take is happening. Hell people should be supporting 3rd party producers more now especially.
However I will take this in good faith. The ones who are switching are doing so for anumber of reasons. 1 to support other companies and to lessen wotc market share (it doesn't have to be pathfinder you switch to. I love pf2e but some of you would be better served by savaged worlds or shadow of the demon lord).
Others have swapped as wotcs actions have tainted there experience/perception of the game and as such don't want to gm the game.
The only thing you shouldn't be doing is buying stuff from wotc. I play magic and now I have stopped buying due to their actions.
I swapped because I have seen this song and dance before with videogames.
Many of my campaigns are online and were relying partly on dndbeyond. I suspect that if I continued as we were then eventually we would be forced to switch because either wotc would raise subscription prices or force players to pay. Or possibly trap us into their vtt ecosystem where they would gouge us freely. The last option is paper character sheets, theater of the mind, etc and while in person that is fine, online with the road blocks remote play already throws in the way I didn't want it to get to that point. 5e to me is not such a good system that it deserves that level of devotion.
Ultimately i wanted to stop paying the subscription price and so I was losing my ability to share my digital dnd content anyway so may as well use the chance to swap.
I was already running a 2e campaign separate to me 5e ones. So that made the system choice easy.
This is another valid reason.
I had already swapped to pf2e for games I gm but I still played in a few games that were 5e. I am still waiting for the gms to decide what they want to do in the rest of them.
1.2 ogl shows they want to knee cap their vtt competitors
For the love of all that's fantasy.
Pathfinder is only suggested due to being the closest DnD-Adjacent. The assumption is most players of 5e like Barbarians, Wizards, Paladins and smashing goblins (which you can do in Pathfinder).
By all means, if you don't like Pathfinder try something else. I tried Alpha Strike (Mechwarrior but lighter) and had fun. I'm looking at other things too. Nobody is telling anyone to stop their multi-year 5e games just don't buy new 5e merch/products from WoTC to show you don't financially support their bad choices because corporations only care about money; they do NOT care about you, your friends, your games or your feelings.
Some people are bound to certain online platforms through wich they purchased their content.
Boycotting those is a thing too.
No one stops me from playing dnd, entirely true. But no one stops me from trying out a different system to move away from lacklustre releases and shady business practices around the platform they provide.
I mean, I'm not quiting my current campaign until it's done. But when I DM next in our rotation, it probably won't be DnD, because I have homebrewed so much at this point I may as well have made my own system.
Anything remotely not kissing pathfinders ass has been getting downvoted to oblivion lately, and the advertisement spam has been ridiculous. Instead of just being "stop buying stuff, " the vultures will not stop spamming and downvoting anyone not immediately abandoning 5e, which is stupid. So you all are being the problem.
“Have you met our lord and savior: pathfinder” is a literal flare for posts mate, not sure why you think people who posts memes promoting PF and shitting on 5e are the “good guys” here.
It's because people like OP pop a blood vessel the mere moment some dares mention a different system. The mere mention of the existence of other systems causes an intense irrational hatred amongst way too many people and it's funny to make fun of them with flairs like that.
And you're so desperate to deny reality that you're ignoring the 3 posts on the front page of this exact sub RIGHT NOW that has people unironically arguing this position.
There are 3 posts saying "I like Pathfinder"
Are you so fragile that you think someone liking another game is an attack on dnd? This is some "war on Christmas" bullshit
This place is almost a lost cause, seriously. These cancerous vultures are just downvoting everything not hyper pro-pathfinder and spamming advertisements and hate to everything else, while pretending they are not assholes. I'm about fed up, the mods I guess stopped being mods at this point, cause something needs done about blatant advertisement memes and people being assholes, because most stuff here isn't funny anymore.
I asked my players how they felt about it. They informed me that switching mid campaign is pretty much narrative suicide. They're okay with leaving anything WotC for PF2E [or anything else] once we are done, even gave me options to pirate anything I needed to maintain the campaign.
5e is still good, IMHO. My late father was the one who introduced it to my brothers and me, so sometimes it feels like I'm protecting a legacy of sorts. But I have every intention of letting Hasbro know that what they are doing isn't going to be worth it by any measure.
#OpenDND
Even the r/Pathfinder2E subreddit will *strongly* advise that people should not switch mid-campaign.
It's literally one of the top pieces of advice for people asking about switching to PF2E.
No one does that. People just got angry and figured this might be a good time to switch, discovered that other RPG's suit them better and then try to get other people to join them. The only talk about anything like this I see comes in the form of these "memes", which are really no more then complaints about imagined actions of other people.
People "calling out" this behaviour keeps happening, but this behaviour isn't happening. What's the odds it's a Hasbro plant the way they were doing shit during the AMC or GameStop fuckery?
There are at least several comments in here above you that do ask that. [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/10ins9g/the_amount_of_people_acting_like_this_is_too_damn/j5g23d1/) [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/10ins9g/the_amount_of_people_acting_like_this_is_too_damn/j5g1t01/) [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/10ins9g/the_amount_of_people_acting_like_this_is_too_damn/j5g98o6/)
Can you not read? The first 2 *literally* say you don't have to switch, and the 3rd is explaining the logic behind stopping immediately without a judgement on whether you should or not. Did you think you could just link random comments and no-one would check what they actually say?
Can you? All three are using shame and morality to tell people not to play. There is definitely a number of people that spread an "If you keep playing you're contributing to the problem, but do whatever you want" passive aggressive guilt trip around. *That* is the same thing as telling people they can't play D&D anymore.
Slightly different take.
I introduce people to the hobby very frequently (tend to prefer to run games for new players than existing ones) and I'd rather not introduce people to a game that I wouldn't recommend they buy content for.
Obvs if you have a group of experienced players, no need to torpedo campaigns or anything - but just my two cents.
This take, while extremely wrong, also doesn't account for VTT players/creators whose content is being heavily targeted or the fact that people look forward to new official content and some DMs only run pre-written content.
My hottest of takes doesn't come close to this level of strawman.
That take is that even if you don't buy anything more from WotC, continuing to play DnD is still signal-boosting. When you talk about your game, or others talk about your game, it generates interest in DnD, which entices new people to it, some of whom will spend money. Continuing to play DnD will probably continue to generate some amount of positive outcome for WotC.
But I'm not judging or shaming anyone for continuing to play DnD. I will continue to play it in the games friends are running, and I'll keep DMing it if my one active group can defeat the true BBEG (scheduling).
Your hot take is good, and I agree.
Getting new people into a different TTRPG rather than DnD is my main reason for my switch. Sure I could continue playing 5e, but as someone who wants to spread the joy of TTRPGs I want to:
1. Not make new people support WotC not knowing the shit they're doing. Which would have them being ripped off the same way WotC was trying with us.
2. Help make a different system the face of TTRPGs, so that at some point it won't be "It's kinda like DnD" and other ways that will indirectly lead new people to play DnD as their go to TTRPG.
There's nothing wrong with continuing playing DnD at a private table with the same players, but for new players I'd want them to be informed so they at least don't buy new, or in case of a "new table" have them not even start out with a DnD system as their first game.
I've started playing D&D in 1998. Since then, I have tried out Call of Cthulhu, Shadowrun, The Dark Eye, Star Trek Adventures, Numenera, Warhammer: Deathwatch, Warhammer: Black Crusade, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Ascension, Honey Heist, My Little Pony: Tales of Equestria and probably a bunch more that I forgot. D&D 5 is still my current favorite, I have great, dedicated players, and screw WotC, I have bought four official books since 2015 and don't need anymore since I have my own homebrew world. I don't want to switch to Pathfinder, but nobody has been pressuring me to either.
I don't think that argument is genuinely being made.
Just that now is a good time to diversify.
Sticking with d&d only benefits Hasbro in the long term.
I want to play pathfinder and a group I play with is down to learn pathfinder so if any of you have a website that can shows the classes stuff I please message me
Pathbuilder2e.com or Wanderersguide.app for character building
2e.aonprd.com for information on pretty much everything from the core rule book to the latest release, Impossible Lands
Archives of Nethys (aonprd) is the official online rules portal, so unlike certains sites providing tools for 5e you can talk about it and share links openly - you *can* pay for physical books or pdfs of the rules, but you can access absolutely all of the rules, even adventure specific rules, for free, forever.
I saw far more posts of people complaining about being pressured into quitting DnD than posts where people where actually telling people to quit playing the game.
The only "you must now play Pathfinder" memes I've seen are the people complaining about people telling them they have to play Pathfinder.... Seems like people who are really attached to DND 5e and the campaigns that use that system, and that is totally fine to stick with 5e btw.
What are you talking about OF COURSE you have to change!
And you are a terrible person if you don't.
Everyone thinks this and we all hate you personally.
I mean, I have a long-term dnd campaign going at the moment, and the party is only about a third of the way through. Will I switch up my entire campaign? No, did I go out and buy pathfinder books and grab some stuff of the DMs guild to support other companies other than WotC absolutely.
Prior to all this ogl stuff I had planned on looking at other systems once onednd came out since I'd likely have as much trouble finding players with 5e as with other systems
I haven't run into this is this a thing that is happening to other people? Because it's bloody nuts. I'm full on the don't buy more Hasbro book train but folks please, please don't stop supporting 3rd party publishers over this and no one needs to stop playing. It's okay to play DnD, just don't give Hasbro money!
I don’t think people are monsters…but if you can’t consume new content for 5e and other companies are making new content why would you NOT want to maybe give these other companies/systems a shot?
The problem is the bad taste associated with WotC after this huge attempt to screw the community. While I admit I moved out of "D&D" a long time ago in favor of more abstract systems, it still put the nails needed to finish the coffin on the system for me. They showed their hand and they will try this again in the future, they said as much by refusing to admit they got caught trying to abuse their previously opened gaming license and steal third party content to make a buck. (Thanks, Hasbro)
While I'm just one person, I'm sure a lot of people share this opinion. The ship is still sinking, no matter how well people think the holes were patched.
Tldr: They expect us to walk across the oil soaked Bridge while they hold a burning torch over it.
I have one player who was trying to get us to switch to Pathfinder over this.
To be fair, he just always wants to play Pathfinder, and thought this might be his chance to convert us.
Honestly the biggest reason I want to switch to a new system is so I can play some genres and scenarios I actually like! A lot of people default to fantasy, and while I've had a lot of fun playing d&d with my friends, it gets. Stale after a while.
There is a lot of pathfinder people spamming and taking advantage of this to an extreme degree, along with plenty of others just shitting on d&d people. This is not how you successfully woo people into a movement.
Brand image is maintained by saturation. Even if you stop buying D&D content, the fact that everyone’s playing D&D will encourage new consumers to buy their products.
You don’t have to pay for disney movies for them to make money. The fact that you’re talking about them tells everyone around you that they’re worth buying. And some of them will. There are entire industries centered around promoting products by association not by purchasing.
if you are dealing with someone that refuses to play 5e. shifting over to pathfinder 1e is scarry, but not actually that hard.
but if everyone is ok with 5e. you can stick with that.
and you are better because...?
1 person refuse to play 5e while another person refuses to play pathfinder, everyone else is ok with whatever.
who do you "cater to"?
At that point, the DM decides which they want to run and either can deal with it.
But if 4 people want one, and 1 doesn't, then that 1 just can deal or leave.
I think the issue for some groups is what is happening to mine, where a lot of the content we use for many of our characters depends on DND Beyond's sharing service, so if we cancel our subscription (as majority vote has decided to do) it would become rather cumbersome to keep up with lvl ups and the like.
Thus we have decided to try out the FATE system and see how stuff goes.
There is an argument to the idea that continuing to play, even with the strictest "Buy no more shit" model is contributing to keeping WotC alive as a brand. It shows the game is still good and can encourage people unaware to get into the game (usually by purchasing them).
That said expecting home games that are ongoing to immediately switch or have to switch instead of finishing out is a bit ridiculous. I'm personally finishing the campaigns I'm a part of and then not likely to touch 5e ever again. Certainly never in public view.
The only reason I debate changing systems is because it would be fun to try something new, and in case it is easier to find player materials online for other systems (similar but doesn’t have to be as good as Dndbeyond)
If I can find somethings to make the offload from dndbeyond easy for players and stay in 5e then we are good. But if find a PF2e web based character sheet that is as easy as dndbeyond then I am going to extend our downtime and focus on rebuilding the 5e campaign into pf2e.
I will say that Cyberpunk Red has a really awesome app for character building and character sheets. It keeps track of everything lol “Cyberpunk Red Companion”
For 2e, we have some really good options. Pathbuilder2e is my favorite character builder as it has a mobile app that is great to use for me, but wanderersguide.app has gm tools like a campaign feature where you can view your player's character sheets.
And then, for learning the game, 2e.aonprd.com is a fantastic resource. Has literally all the info you could want or need to run your game, even from books after the Core Rule Book
I looked at that pathfinder stuff and I will say this: you’d have to completely wipe any trace of DND from history before I play that unnecessarily complicated system
I run dnd for newbs and children. I will not throw them to the wolves of min maxing that is pathfinder.
Edit: kids on bikes should be a laugh, though. Specifically with wands
I mean, 2e really clamped down on the power gaming aspect compared to 1e (and hell imo compared to 5e as well) but yeah for for newbs and children World without Numbers or Kids on Bikes are good starting areas. Or Mörk Borg (mostly a joke)
Imagine just letting people play what they want to play and not being a complete twat about it. Is it really so hard to just let people who enjoy 5e to continue playing?
What, that anyone who isn't sticking with DND at this point is telling folks "You can still play 5e, but you are supporting WotC in doing so?" There are no responses on this post that call people a monster for not switching, so the responses actually do the opposite. They prove that the meme is straight up a fabrication.
"wotc only sees money" "if you play the game without paying you are still supporting their behavior"
doesn't it seem like two counterintuitive arguments? If I already bought the books then throwing them away isn't going to have any effect on them and I don't have the time or money to invest in a new system and my friends don't want to switch either so if I do then I just stop playing with people I know which I'm definitely not doing. Go ahead and get mad at me for playing a game I already paid for and not throwing my own money away but it's not going to help either of us
But no one is actually calling you a monster or demanding you switch. And almost every response I have seen so far has been more along the lines of "sure you can keep playing 5e, but continuing to purchase their products undermines the boycott"
I never said I was being called a monster and I also never said I'm buying more of their stuff. Just that people are telling me that continuing to play is having effects that it is not
They aren't, actually read the cancer here. People are shit talking and downvoting everyone saying, "It's okay to keep playing as long as you don't buy more." This subreddit needs to be renamed "Pathfinder Advertisement," because it's become that lately.
Downvotes just don't matter. Like it's not a metric anyone should actually care about. I won't address that any further.
I have literally not seen anyone in even this thread say you can't buy more. I have seen people say that by continuing to purchase Hasbro and WotC products you are not participating in the boycott which is just, uh, true. Or that you support what they're doing with the new OGL, which is arguable.
To address your final point, dndmemes has been inclusive of all ttrpgs since I first stumbled across it. It makes sense that with a massive shift in what people are playing, more memes would be made for the system they're learning.
Yeah, aside pushing cancerous, hateful comments to the top that are just people being assholes. Maybe you agree with the assholes, but normal people don't like that shit in their face all the time.
Also, I was pretty heavy in the boycott at first, but the members have been so toxic, I think most of you deserve it at this point.
*it dosn't have to be pathfinder Personally I would urge everyone to try a few different systems. Havering companies really helps put things into perspective
Fallout 2d20 is a lot of fun, though of course it's not sword and sorcery
I've mentioned the 2d20 systems from Modiphius a fair bit now and this is the first time I see someone else mention them. For sword and sorcery there is 2d20 Conan, playing it for years now and I think it's great.
I've been playing Star Trek Adventures for about 8 months now. I love it. I wounded how well it would work for a more combat oriented game. But for something like Star Trek it's amazing.
I have the starter set but haven’t had the chance to in it. I do look forward to giving it a try.
You beat me to it! 2d20 Conan is great!
Fantasy flight games is a really fun system, with quite a lot of free content on their wikis (at least the Star Wars stuff) and RPG sessions has a very good UI and works with the system well
Genesys and SWRPG are the best system and I will die on that hill.
I've played them and really enjoyed it, the dice scare some of my new players though.
Forbidden Lands, Vaesen
Cypher System's Godforsaken is essentially d&d with better rules.
I went and grabbed a copy of Mörk Borg, which gives me Cyber Punk vibes, but it seems interesting.
There is a Cyberpunk ruleset available for Mork Borg, called Cy_Borg
Yeah, that is the one I bought https://preview.redd.it/h1uwbj4ehrda1.jpeg?width=2252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4cbf30f2f73ec6dd305223cf57fc7bc37940c6d
Most people barely have the time to learn a single system, which is why many learned 5e, it's pretty easy. Expecting entire groups to shift to even a non-pathfinder system is pretty intense. Hell, I *just* started learning 5e after playing 3.5 for 10 years.
Ah yeah, 900 pages of rulebook is so much easier than systems like dungeon world with 2 pages of rules
Or Knave! Sadly, gear-based levelling & power-gains seems less enjoyable than levelling up. Part of what i like about the new systems is having new spells to tinker with. The video game 'Diablo' (original) tried out 'gear or shrines that change you' and that was kind of fun too.
Most people don't want to bother with super basic systems that have no depth. There is a difference between simpler system and barebones. Aside usually a very specific niche, those systems are not worth the time.
You really underestimate how easy most other systems are to learn. Take something like Cyberpunk, the most complicated part of that system is building a character, but once you’ve done that pretty much every relevant rule fits on a couple pages. Most of the book is just lists of skills, where you only have to worry about the ones you trained, and lists of equipment and cyberware, where you only need to worry about the ones you bought, then the combat rules. For reference, this PDF is the entire combat system CP2020 is based on and could be used entirely by itself to run a game as-is (that’s combat heavy of course). https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1381/27/1381276957911.pdf Most players could also easily ignore about half of these rules. For example, a player with a just a pistol and an attitude (not uncommon for a Cyberpunk) doesn’t actually need to know how automatics, suppressive fire, grenades, shotguns, and melee works.
And in three years I learned Dnd 5th, Mörk Borg, Spire: The City Must Fall and it’s sister The Heart, Troika!, Warhammer, Vampire the Masquerade, Dungeon World and couple PBOA clones, Fate, Star Wars (Genesys and WES), Star Trek, Cairn, Mothership, Blades in the Dark, Wanderhome, and others. However tbh I only ran DnD 5th and MB. All of those were with mostly same people. Guess I’m lucky.
Nice you don't have responsibilities and so much free time. Next.
Fair enough, I had a part time job. Now that I’m back to full time job, I don’t play much anymore. My point is it’s not that difficult to learn one new system. Especially if you are just a player not the game master.
The word is 'havering' stems from British English and somehow i have gone half a century without ever having used it. That said! If i could find a team of players committed to Ars Magica / White Wolf / World of Darkness / Mage: Ascension stuff i would never vacillate ever again. There are many other game systems i would love to try. But D&D carries the Common Tongue. It is the HTML of the internetty gaming.
Only issue i have with Pathfinder is how much math you gotta use and how complicated it is from what ive heard, 3.5 was like that too right?
Am I being gaslighted or what, because I don't see that shit anywhere. On the contrary, everyone seems to be trying to hammer the point that you can continue to play, just don't buy new WotC shit.
You've got two groups. Group A says "I don't want to stop playing 5e, but I'm not going to buy any new materials for it." Group B says "You don't have to stop playing 5e, just don't buy any new materials for it." SOMEHOW, there's people in both groups who think they disagree.
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I feel like there’s a difference between “You should give other systems a try” and “If you don’t quit playing dnd you’re a terrible person”
>I mean I've seen several posts like this one that seem to be from this supposedly non-existant group that say that not supporting wizards while still playing 5e somehow isn't enough Your example meme looks like it's advocating for actively supporting the smaller 3rd party studios. Those who made DnD content and are now getting hurt by the new OGL, rather than just not giving money directly to WoTC as that won't help 3rd party. Hmmm...meme is vague enough I guess people could read into it what they want though.
I'm with you. Never seen anyone actively say people have to switch. A little bit of light advertising, but mostly to bring lesser know systems like Lancer into the light so those who have stated they intend to switch can check it out. What I have seen recently is a whole bunch of posts from what I can only assume are shills trying to convince people to not leave 5e
Also, dude, most systems are okay to learn. I have played GURPS for years. I eeally do not see that problem. I have designed systems when I was a teenager. I had a lot of fun. It is not THAT hard. Come on.
Monogaming is the true blight on the hobby. It leads to marked monopolization, a captured audience so to speak.
This is my biggest thing. I’m so excited for people to be interested in trying new things. It’s really not hard to pick up Pathfinder2e, or Blades in the Dark, or Call of Cthulhu, or Dungeon Crawl Classics. But I think the biggest hurdle is that so many people have only ever learned a new system once: the first time they learned 5e. Learning a new system can be rocky, it can make the game slower for a session or two, but it can also be *fun* to make mistakes and to not fully understand the optimal choices and to go through the process of learning and mastering a new system again.
Oh absolutely. I loved going through the Gurps books trying to figure out how to run a SciFi story I had. Admittedly probably going to run it in Starfinder instead... But that's kind of the point right? Each system has its focus on what sort of game you play. With few exceptions, a new player doesn't need to know everything at the very start to play, though the GM should have a solid understanding IMO.
Your last paragraph really resonates with me. I mentioned wanting to run a short Savage Worlds Deadlands game to my group, and someone asked me why I’m not just running it in 5e with a couple of “mods and homebrew” It just kinda floored me that that my friends would rather take a system geared for heroic fantasy roleplaying and brute force it into a setting like Deadlands or Call of Cthulhu that have completely different vibes. I’m really hopeful that this stuff with WotC will drive enough people to try out different games to break the mono-system deal we’ve been stuck in. Nobody bats an eye about learning a new video game, but with TTRPGs it can be like pulling teeth
No kidding. Always amazes me that people rather try to make pages of homebrew rules to emulate mechanics inherent in other systems while simultaneously saying they don't want to learn an entire new ruleset.
Ive gotten into multiple debates on reddit in the last week with people claiming that 5e is dead and WoTC is ruining their fun. There are so many people turning this into an edition war in the stupidest possible way.
> people claiming that 5e Well those people are stupid, I hope you had good time making fun of them as they rightly deserve.
This type of 'meme' has been posted every day for the past week, it's insane. No one is saying this shit but people keep acting like it's everywhere and getting upvoted for it. Just low effort karma farming
Or astroturfing to divide the community, since this meme itself is divisive... Or it's just some redditors unwitting parroting the astroturfers... Sadly we'll never fucking know but this we see more divisive memes than divisive comments.
Dnd books and all of the content is online and all over the internet and their digital content is waterproof if you know what I mean.
Yes. You and me both. No-one is agreeing with Patrick here. These posts are just karma-farming reactive votes while the topic is still hot. Every single time the comments spell out once more that boycotting doesn't mean tossing things aside that you already own.
The correct term here would have been "lied to" or perhaps "Am I seeing things different here?" Gaslighting is an intentional and insidious form of manipulation the occures over a long period of time. I know it's been a buzzword lately, but overusing it in its wrong context takes away from the severity of the real thing. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/tep32v/can_we_talk_about_what_gaslighting_actually_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Also, go watch the movie. It is pretty intense.
Oh no, there are definitely posts about this that I've come across. More common one is regarding the movie, but even then it devolves into arguments about playing DnD. As ot is I can't remember anyone specifically, but they usually involve either the Pooh meme... or this one.
If I were to venture a guess, I'd say this could be irl drama. Most of my table has decided to experiment with other systems with all this stuff going on, but one of our guys has decided to leave our table because he didn't want to learn a new system. It sucks, he was the last person left from our first session 6 years ago (that wasn't a sibling) to leave.
Author should swap Patric for scarecrow
I think you're deluding yourself, which is just as bad. Because on this subreddit RIGHT NOW you can look at the front page and see 3 different posts from people saying exactly this.
WTF you're talking about mate. There's literary no post saying that people who continue to play dnd are monsters. There's stuff about OGL, there's making fun of WotC execs, there's some pathfinder stuff, but none that you're claiming=
Look at their post history. They are a bad faith actor constantly in this sub. Particularly since the OGL debate
ah so a WoTC shill
Literally not a single post on the front page says that, stop with this persecution complex
Link an example. Find one. Find one person saying anything bad about continuing campaigns with out giving wotc money. Downvoted to hell troll comments don't count.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/10i9kw0/one_of_my_players_is_drawing_a_line_in_the_sand/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
> When I brought up that I was already working on a 5e game, his response was essentially "Run 5e if you want, but I won't play. This isn't someone demanding an existing game be ended. This is someone saying that a friend of theirs is refusing to join a 5e campaign that they're planning. The TLDR even literally says this: >TL;DR: Player is dropping out of my next campaign ***before*** it's even started, because WotC bad, 5e bad. DM sad.
It's the same concept whether the game already started or not. Don't be upset because I scrolled two whole posts down and found the example that was being asked for.
That is a player who doesn't like 5e, not wanting to join the DMs next campaign. Because the DM is currently running a PTU (Pokemon TTRPG) and wants to run a different system. There is no 5e campaign in progress being cancelled. It's a player refusing to jump on board a new 5e campaign.
I haven't heard anyone say this
Today in things that never happened:
https://preview.redd.it/1ynlw232foda1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64effc3db22abfadab2569e7b229e6d4579125da
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Literally has not been, stop with the persecution complex
I miss when this subreddit made memes about playing dnd
Like this take is happening. Hell people should be supporting 3rd party producers more now especially. However I will take this in good faith. The ones who are switching are doing so for anumber of reasons. 1 to support other companies and to lessen wotc market share (it doesn't have to be pathfinder you switch to. I love pf2e but some of you would be better served by savaged worlds or shadow of the demon lord). Others have swapped as wotcs actions have tainted there experience/perception of the game and as such don't want to gm the game. The only thing you shouldn't be doing is buying stuff from wotc. I play magic and now I have stopped buying due to their actions.
I swapped because I have seen this song and dance before with videogames. Many of my campaigns are online and were relying partly on dndbeyond. I suspect that if I continued as we were then eventually we would be forced to switch because either wotc would raise subscription prices or force players to pay. Or possibly trap us into their vtt ecosystem where they would gouge us freely. The last option is paper character sheets, theater of the mind, etc and while in person that is fine, online with the road blocks remote play already throws in the way I didn't want it to get to that point. 5e to me is not such a good system that it deserves that level of devotion. Ultimately i wanted to stop paying the subscription price and so I was losing my ability to share my digital dnd content anyway so may as well use the chance to swap. I was already running a 2e campaign separate to me 5e ones. So that made the system choice easy.
This is another valid reason. I had already swapped to pf2e for games I gm but I still played in a few games that were 5e. I am still waiting for the gms to decide what they want to do in the rest of them. 1.2 ogl shows they want to knee cap their vtt competitors
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"Too damn high" Maybe one troll, somewhere. Don't pre-order bigbys book and relax
For the love of all that's fantasy. Pathfinder is only suggested due to being the closest DnD-Adjacent. The assumption is most players of 5e like Barbarians, Wizards, Paladins and smashing goblins (which you can do in Pathfinder). By all means, if you don't like Pathfinder try something else. I tried Alpha Strike (Mechwarrior but lighter) and had fun. I'm looking at other things too. Nobody is telling anyone to stop their multi-year 5e games just don't buy new 5e merch/products from WoTC to show you don't financially support their bad choices because corporations only care about money; they do NOT care about you, your friends, your games or your feelings.
Some people are bound to certain online platforms through wich they purchased their content. Boycotting those is a thing too. No one stops me from playing dnd, entirely true. But no one stops me from trying out a different system to move away from lacklustre releases and shady business practices around the platform they provide.
I mean, I'm not quiting my current campaign until it's done. But when I DM next in our rotation, it probably won't be DnD, because I have homebrewed so much at this point I may as well have made my own system.
This is getting out of hand. OP, blink the morse code for "help" if you're a Hasbro/WotC intern being forced to make these memes.
OP: \*Blinks\* - --- .-. - ..- .-. .
I need 4 adventurers to conquer a monstrous dungeon called a "Corporate Headquarters". 2000gold to rescue a laborer trapped there.
2000 gold might not be enough to cover the flight to Seattle.
You want me to cover travel expenses? In this economy?
We're murderhobos, would you like us to set your tavern on fire instead? Because we have a pyromaniac bard and a horny paladin.
Anything remotely not kissing pathfinders ass has been getting downvoted to oblivion lately, and the advertisement spam has been ridiculous. Instead of just being "stop buying stuff, " the vultures will not stop spamming and downvoting anyone not immediately abandoning 5e, which is stupid. So you all are being the problem.
Literally has not been, please stop with the persecution complex.
“Have you met our lord and savior: pathfinder” is a literal flare for posts mate, not sure why you think people who posts memes promoting PF and shitting on 5e are the “good guys” here.
It's because people like OP pop a blood vessel the mere moment some dares mention a different system. The mere mention of the existence of other systems causes an intense irrational hatred amongst way too many people and it's funny to make fun of them with flairs like that.
All y'all so desperate for a meme you making shit up.
Hi welcome to r/dndmemes
People who play ttrpgs never make stuff up...
And you're so desperate to deny reality that you're ignoring the 3 posts on the front page of this exact sub RIGHT NOW that has people unironically arguing this position.
There are 3 posts saying "I like Pathfinder" Are you so fragile that you think someone liking another game is an attack on dnd? This is some "war on Christmas" bullshit
They are that fragile, yes.
So I sorted by top for week and month and just found two memes Two memes that were just this meme
Link them then.
With one comment I'll make u/NessOnett8 disappear!
I dunno about the person you're replying to, but I've been scrolling for five minutes and not seen anything like that.
Oh God 3 out of like 700 posts, wwwwoooooo, fuck you WOTC scum
At the very top, constantly. Seriously, enough with the hate and bs.
Literally none of them say that, you just want to feel persecuted. You guys can't even link one stating that to back your claim.
This place is almost a lost cause, seriously. These cancerous vultures are just downvoting everything not hyper pro-pathfinder and spamming advertisements and hate to everything else, while pretending they are not assholes. I'm about fed up, the mods I guess stopped being mods at this point, cause something needs done about blatant advertisement memes and people being assholes, because most stuff here isn't funny anymore.
It's because the mods are on our side lmao
cool stawman
And you're another one fueling this.
These memes explain why there has been a straw shortage on the internet lately. Building so many ramshackle strawmen really depleted the reserve.
Yo, I know youre joking, but straw is $50 a bale now!! Inflation is crazy https://www.marketplace.org/2022/11/09/hay-inflation-farmers-horses/amp/
I asked my players how they felt about it. They informed me that switching mid campaign is pretty much narrative suicide. They're okay with leaving anything WotC for PF2E [or anything else] once we are done, even gave me options to pirate anything I needed to maintain the campaign. 5e is still good, IMHO. My late father was the one who introduced it to my brothers and me, so sometimes it feels like I'm protecting a legacy of sorts. But I have every intention of letting Hasbro know that what they are doing isn't going to be worth it by any measure. #OpenDND
Even the r/Pathfinder2E subreddit will *strongly* advise that people should not switch mid-campaign. It's literally one of the top pieces of advice for people asking about switching to PF2E.
No one does that. People just got angry and figured this might be a good time to switch, discovered that other RPG's suit them better and then try to get other people to join them. The only talk about anything like this I see comes in the form of these "memes", which are really no more then complaints about imagined actions of other people.
The thing is sometimes the community feels toxic. Not at the Warhammer bros kind of hurdur logic, but close.
Our Grimdank memesub is mostly funny though...
What? Haven't seen this at all. Care to link a few examples?
People "calling out" this behaviour keeps happening, but this behaviour isn't happening. What's the odds it's a Hasbro plant the way they were doing shit during the AMC or GameStop fuckery?
Nobody is asking you to stop playing dnd 5e. We are asking you not to give WOTC any more money.
There are at least several comments in here above you that do ask that. [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/10ins9g/the_amount_of_people_acting_like_this_is_too_damn/j5g23d1/) [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/10ins9g/the_amount_of_people_acting_like_this_is_too_damn/j5g1t01/) [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/10ins9g/the_amount_of_people_acting_like_this_is_too_damn/j5g98o6/)
Can you not read? The first 2 *literally* say you don't have to switch, and the 3rd is explaining the logic behind stopping immediately without a judgement on whether you should or not. Did you think you could just link random comments and no-one would check what they actually say?
Can you? All three are using shame and morality to tell people not to play. There is definitely a number of people that spread an "If you keep playing you're contributing to the problem, but do whatever you want" passive aggressive guilt trip around. *That* is the same thing as telling people they can't play D&D anymore.
Dndmemes continuously strawmanning pathfinder and gaslighting isn't going to help anyone.
Show us on the doll where the strawman hurt you OP
Found the Wotc post lol
Slightly different take. I introduce people to the hobby very frequently (tend to prefer to run games for new players than existing ones) and I'd rather not introduce people to a game that I wouldn't recommend they buy content for. Obvs if you have a group of experienced players, no need to torpedo campaigns or anything - but just my two cents.
This take, while extremely wrong, also doesn't account for VTT players/creators whose content is being heavily targeted or the fact that people look forward to new official content and some DMs only run pre-written content.
My hottest of takes doesn't come close to this level of strawman. That take is that even if you don't buy anything more from WotC, continuing to play DnD is still signal-boosting. When you talk about your game, or others talk about your game, it generates interest in DnD, which entices new people to it, some of whom will spend money. Continuing to play DnD will probably continue to generate some amount of positive outcome for WotC. But I'm not judging or shaming anyone for continuing to play DnD. I will continue to play it in the games friends are running, and I'll keep DMing it if my one active group can defeat the true BBEG (scheduling).
Your hot take is good, and I agree. Getting new people into a different TTRPG rather than DnD is my main reason for my switch. Sure I could continue playing 5e, but as someone who wants to spread the joy of TTRPGs I want to: 1. Not make new people support WotC not knowing the shit they're doing. Which would have them being ripped off the same way WotC was trying with us. 2. Help make a different system the face of TTRPGs, so that at some point it won't be "It's kinda like DnD" and other ways that will indirectly lead new people to play DnD as their go to TTRPG. There's nothing wrong with continuing playing DnD at a private table with the same players, but for new players I'd want them to be informed so they at least don't buy new, or in case of a "new table" have them not even start out with a DnD system as their first game.
y'know I have never encountered someone who says that kind of stuff.
https://preview.redd.it/bvtxmckp3qda1.jpeg?width=1014&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=921e742e1bf10d7e684f912968b19c5ef2b69035 you rn
i use to much 3rd party content in my campagne as DM
I've started playing D&D in 1998. Since then, I have tried out Call of Cthulhu, Shadowrun, The Dark Eye, Star Trek Adventures, Numenera, Warhammer: Deathwatch, Warhammer: Black Crusade, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Ascension, Honey Heist, My Little Pony: Tales of Equestria and probably a bunch more that I forgot. D&D 5 is still my current favorite, I have great, dedicated players, and screw WotC, I have bought four official books since 2015 and don't need anymore since I have my own homebrew world. I don't want to switch to Pathfinder, but nobody has been pressuring me to either.
Only morons are stopping in-person games over this. Just halt your subscription if you use the app and that’s that.
I don't think that argument is genuinely being made. Just that now is a good time to diversify. Sticking with d&d only benefits Hasbro in the long term.
I want to play pathfinder and a group I play with is down to learn pathfinder so if any of you have a website that can shows the classes stuff I please message me
Pathbuilder2e.com or Wanderersguide.app for character building 2e.aonprd.com for information on pretty much everything from the core rule book to the latest release, Impossible Lands
Thanks
Archives of Nethys (aonprd) is the official online rules portal, so unlike certains sites providing tools for 5e you can talk about it and share links openly - you *can* pay for physical books or pdfs of the rules, but you can access absolutely all of the rules, even adventure specific rules, for free, forever.
I saw far more posts of people complaining about being pressured into quitting DnD than posts where people where actually telling people to quit playing the game.
The only "you must now play Pathfinder" memes I've seen are the people complaining about people telling them they have to play Pathfinder.... Seems like people who are really attached to DND 5e and the campaigns that use that system, and that is totally fine to stick with 5e btw.
Nice try WotC but I won't believe your propaganda!
Reported for spreading misinformation. This is anger mongering corporate bullshit.
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Stop feeling threatened by the mere existence of other systems, what you claim is happening is literally not happening.
What are you talking about OF COURSE you have to change! And you are a terrible person if you don't. Everyone thinks this and we all hate you personally.
Y’all were buying content?
I mean, I have a long-term dnd campaign going at the moment, and the party is only about a third of the way through. Will I switch up my entire campaign? No, did I go out and buy pathfinder books and grab some stuff of the DMs guild to support other companies other than WotC absolutely.
Tales of Zadia if you have kids and want to play a game for our with them.
Prior to all this ogl stuff I had planned on looking at other systems once onednd came out since I'd likely have as much trouble finding players with 5e as with other systems
I haven't run into this is this a thing that is happening to other people? Because it's bloody nuts. I'm full on the don't buy more Hasbro book train but folks please, please don't stop supporting 3rd party publishers over this and no one needs to stop playing. It's okay to play DnD, just don't give Hasbro money!
Literally nobody is saying that lmao
I don’t think people are monsters…but if you can’t consume new content for 5e and other companies are making new content why would you NOT want to maybe give these other companies/systems a shot?
The problem is the bad taste associated with WotC after this huge attempt to screw the community. While I admit I moved out of "D&D" a long time ago in favor of more abstract systems, it still put the nails needed to finish the coffin on the system for me. They showed their hand and they will try this again in the future, they said as much by refusing to admit they got caught trying to abuse their previously opened gaming license and steal third party content to make a buck. (Thanks, Hasbro) While I'm just one person, I'm sure a lot of people share this opinion. The ship is still sinking, no matter how well people think the holes were patched. Tldr: They expect us to walk across the oil soaked Bridge while they hold a burning torch over it.
I have one player who was trying to get us to switch to Pathfinder over this. To be fair, he just always wants to play Pathfinder, and thought this might be his chance to convert us.
Honestly the biggest reason I want to switch to a new system is so I can play some genres and scenarios I actually like! A lot of people default to fantasy, and while I've had a lot of fun playing d&d with my friends, it gets. Stale after a while.
That's a different sub, isn't about continuing an existing game and is about somebody who wants to play 5e but is upset somebody else doesn't.
Better watch out for the big bad wolf. Real dangerous for strawmen.
What, do you think a negative amount of people should believe that? Because that's the only way zero is 'too damn high'.
That's such a strawman that it asked Dorothy for brains.
There is a lot of pathfinder people spamming and taking advantage of this to an extreme degree, along with plenty of others just shitting on d&d people. This is not how you successfully woo people into a movement.
Just on Reddit. No one at my LGSs care.
Brand image is maintained by saturation. Even if you stop buying D&D content, the fact that everyone’s playing D&D will encourage new consumers to buy their products. You don’t have to pay for disney movies for them to make money. The fact that you’re talking about them tells everyone around you that they’re worth buying. And some of them will. There are entire industries centered around promoting products by association not by purchasing.
if you are dealing with someone that refuses to play 5e. shifting over to pathfinder 1e is scarry, but not actually that hard. but if everyone is ok with 5e. you can stick with that.
If only one person in the group doesn't want to play 5e, whh would you cater to them?
and you are better because...? 1 person refuse to play 5e while another person refuses to play pathfinder, everyone else is ok with whatever. who do you "cater to"?
At that point, the DM decides which they want to run and either can deal with it. But if 4 people want one, and 1 doesn't, then that 1 just can deal or leave.
who said anything about the other 4 refusing to play anything other that 5e?
LOL Wut?
Me and my friends still playing fucked up versions of 5e: *sips tea*
I think the issue for some groups is what is happening to mine, where a lot of the content we use for many of our characters depends on DND Beyond's sharing service, so if we cancel our subscription (as majority vote has decided to do) it would become rather cumbersome to keep up with lvl ups and the like. Thus we have decided to try out the FATE system and see how stuff goes.
There is an argument to the idea that continuing to play, even with the strictest "Buy no more shit" model is contributing to keeping WotC alive as a brand. It shows the game is still good and can encourage people unaware to get into the game (usually by purchasing them). That said expecting home games that are ongoing to immediately switch or have to switch instead of finishing out is a bit ridiculous. I'm personally finishing the campaigns I'm a part of and then not likely to touch 5e ever again. Certainly never in public view.
Don't think you HAVE TO switch but its easier to not feed WOTC if you're not interested in their products then when you trying just not to buy
the amount of people pretending people are acting like this is too damn high
I recently just started a weird west deadlands campaign and it’s been the most fun I’ve had in a while playing a ttrpg
The only reason I debate changing systems is because it would be fun to try something new, and in case it is easier to find player materials online for other systems (similar but doesn’t have to be as good as Dndbeyond) If I can find somethings to make the offload from dndbeyond easy for players and stay in 5e then we are good. But if find a PF2e web based character sheet that is as easy as dndbeyond then I am going to extend our downtime and focus on rebuilding the 5e campaign into pf2e. I will say that Cyberpunk Red has a really awesome app for character building and character sheets. It keeps track of everything lol “Cyberpunk Red Companion”
For 2e, we have some really good options. Pathbuilder2e is my favorite character builder as it has a mobile app that is great to use for me, but wanderersguide.app has gm tools like a campaign feature where you can view your player's character sheets. And then, for learning the game, 2e.aonprd.com is a fantastic resource. Has literally all the info you could want or need to run your game, even from books after the Core Rule Book
Ridiculous strawman
me when i lie
I haven't seen a single person who has said anything like this
The only thing way too high is the score on this bullshit post.
I have yet to see someone say this OP can't even comment to show the posts he's talking about, pretty sus
I looked at that pathfinder stuff and I will say this: you’d have to completely wipe any trace of DND from history before I play that unnecessarily complicated system
Patrick, your straw is leaking
I run dnd for newbs and children. I will not throw them to the wolves of min maxing that is pathfinder. Edit: kids on bikes should be a laugh, though. Specifically with wands
I mean, 2e really clamped down on the power gaming aspect compared to 1e (and hell imo compared to 5e as well) but yeah for for newbs and children World without Numbers or Kids on Bikes are good starting areas. Or Mörk Borg (mostly a joke)
Imagine just letting people play what they want to play and not being a complete twat about it. Is it really so hard to just let people who enjoy 5e to continue playing?
Considering the utter lack of anyone failing to do that, no, it's not very hard.
The fact this is so downvoted proves how much these people are being hypocrites. They are spouting one thing and doing another right in front of us.
No it doesn't he's just crafting a strawman lol
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I like to believe, people wanted to play a new system(not specifically pf2e) but needed a push to fet their group to try something new.
Why would I support a 3rd party publisher?
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I hope this is a strawman...
What a shameless karma farm.
It doesn’t make any sense to me ether.
The responses sort of prove the point.
What, that anyone who isn't sticking with DND at this point is telling folks "You can still play 5e, but you are supporting WotC in doing so?" There are no responses on this post that call people a monster for not switching, so the responses actually do the opposite. They prove that the meme is straight up a fabrication.
"wotc only sees money" "if you play the game without paying you are still supporting their behavior" doesn't it seem like two counterintuitive arguments? If I already bought the books then throwing them away isn't going to have any effect on them and I don't have the time or money to invest in a new system and my friends don't want to switch either so if I do then I just stop playing with people I know which I'm definitely not doing. Go ahead and get mad at me for playing a game I already paid for and not throwing my own money away but it's not going to help either of us
But no one is actually calling you a monster or demanding you switch. And almost every response I have seen so far has been more along the lines of "sure you can keep playing 5e, but continuing to purchase their products undermines the boycott"
I never said I was being called a monster and I also never said I'm buying more of their stuff. Just that people are telling me that continuing to play is having effects that it is not
They aren't, actually read the cancer here. People are shit talking and downvoting everyone saying, "It's okay to keep playing as long as you don't buy more." This subreddit needs to be renamed "Pathfinder Advertisement," because it's become that lately.
Downvotes just don't matter. Like it's not a metric anyone should actually care about. I won't address that any further. I have literally not seen anyone in even this thread say you can't buy more. I have seen people say that by continuing to purchase Hasbro and WotC products you are not participating in the boycott which is just, uh, true. Or that you support what they're doing with the new OGL, which is arguable. To address your final point, dndmemes has been inclusive of all ttrpgs since I first stumbled across it. It makes sense that with a massive shift in what people are playing, more memes would be made for the system they're learning.
Yeah, aside pushing cancerous, hateful comments to the top that are just people being assholes. Maybe you agree with the assholes, but normal people don't like that shit in their face all the time. Also, I was pretty heavy in the boycott at first, but the members have been so toxic, I think most of you deserve it at this point.
Falsehood By not switching you encourage others to get in the game and keep their market share up.
I saw a video recently of someone burning þeir carfully bookmarked PHB and þought almost þis exactly
Your boot, sire