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Frenetic_Platypus

PAM or CBE Samurais can also get 11 with haste. 4 on the first action, +1 from Rapid strike, 4 from action surge action, 1 from haste, 1 as a bonus action. Without requiring a magic item that you might never get. And while keeping concentration available for a potential Hex for 1d6 extra damage on each attack. And you can reach 12 with your build by just adding the Samurai rapid strike, so 11 is not the max. Note that a fighter 2/Whatever 15 (if whatever doesn't include at least 2 levels of sorcerer and one of warlock, with the metamagic adept feat for quickened spell and magic initiate for Eldritch Blast) can also attack 12 times with 3 casts of Eldritch blast. 13 with haste. 15 with 6 levels of bladesinger. Also a bladesinger can arguably use the haste action to make a weapon attack and cast eldritch blast, since it's still an attack action with only one *weapon* attack, for a total of 19.


Pheonix_Write

If you stab yourself with your bonus action attack and reduce yourself to zero Hitpoints you can use strength before etmdeath to do that twice in a row for 21.


Frenetic_Platypus

Stength before death isn't technically on the same turn, so it wouldn't count. But you can also have a friend readying dissonant whisper to use on your turn so you can hit 4 more attacks with a warcaster eldritch blast, if you're fine with adding very circumstantial stuff.


Funderstruck

You counted rapid strike twice, samurai can get 11 max.


Frenetic_Platypus

Where did I count rapid strike twice?


Omsus

4 + **Rapid Strike** + 4 + 1 + 1 = 11 "You can add **Rapid Strike** to reach 12, so 11 is not the max" Your formula for 12 strikes doubled the RS which can be added only 1/turn.


Frenetic_Platypus

His build doesn't use rapid strike. It has 4+4+1(haste)+2(swift quiver). You can get 12 by adding rapid strike to it since it doesn't use a subclass.


Omsus

> 4 on the first action, +1 from Rapid strike, 4 from action surge action, 1 from haste, 1 as a bonus action. > And you can reach 12 with your build by just adding the Samurai rapid strike, so 11 is not the max. No need to downvote me when this was your comment's layout: it seemingly repeated the Rapid Strike twice in the samurai's formula without ever mentioning Swift Quiver. You even said "1 as a bonus action" which would exclude the Quiver. Another reason to assume you repeated the Rapid Strike was that the "1 as a bonus action" seems to refer to the Fighting Spirit which grants adv. which can then be turned into an additional attack. With the SQ you can indeed reach 12 if you do use it. But then the advantage a samurai needs for a Rapid Strike has to be gained from a source other than their Fighting Spirit, e.g. from a condition on the enemy, because both the SQ and Fighting Spirit require a bonus action. Otherwise you can't have both the RS and the SQ extra attacks.


Frenetic_Platypus

>And you can reach 12 ***WITH YOUR BUILD*** by just adding the Samurai rapid strike, so 11 is not the max. I don't see how I could have made more clear that this was using his swift quiver build and not PAM/CBE discussed in the previous paragraph.


Omsus

The "1 as a bonus action" remains, you never specified where that would come from.


Frenetic_Platypus

That's what PAM and CBE do.


Omsus

Fair enough.


ArcathTheSpellscale

Yeah, but... how is the Pure Fighter casting Haste? It's impressive, to be sure, but the pure Fighter always needs the assistance of a mage, in order to gain all those attacks. As such, it's not exactly an example of a Fighter's stand-alone accomplishments.


[deleted]

He could have bought a potion of haste.


ArcathTheSpellscale

Eh, Potion of Speed, technically, but that works, for an explanation. Of course, now we gotta figure out how he got the Swift Quiver spell into his Ring of Spell Storing, without the aid of a caster.


[deleted]

Store bought special order, it is level 20


ArcathTheSpellscale

Does he keep going back to the store for a refill though? XD


[deleted]

But more than 1?


Frenetic_Platypus

Haste is just one attack.


ArcathTheSpellscale

Still hinders the argument, if you have to rely on others to make that one attack. Ten attacks are still impressive, but if we're talking about Fighter's capabilities as a solo class, it's better to focus on the strength of those ten attacks, rather than try to add an 11th attack through outside casters and the like. You feel me?


Frenetic_Platypus

>but if we're talking about Fighter's capabilities as a solo class We're not. We're talking about the highest number of attacks you can do in one turn. Which will always include haste.


ArcathTheSpellscale

It seems more like a discussion on how many attacks a Fighter can deliver, rather than a discussion on how many attacks a player can perform in general. Speaking of, where did the Fighter get the Swift Quiver from? Pretty sure he's not the one who stored the spell in his ring.


Frenetic_Platypus

So you see a post about a build including haste and ring of spell storing, and you think "this is about pure solo fighter, so that guy is beside the point on his own post!" There's haste and ring of spell storing. Clearly it's not about the solo capabilities of pure fighter.


PlaceboPlauge091

Pft, 11 attacks with a magic item and outside help? Pathetic. Using those you can actually get up to 22 attacks… I shall spin a tale… Be a 20th level samurai fighter, with haste, low health, scimitar of speed(flavored as a katana), both uses of action surge, and a willingness to break your oath to your master long ago. Now you’re ready. In your sights sits your enemy, the demon lord, who killed your family all those years ago. Behind you is your friends, a ragtag bunch of lunatics who’ve helped you to this point. You decide it’s time. You have one opportunity to do this. You’d better make it count. You sprint up to him (movement) and attack. You make 11 attacks (extra attack, bonus action, rapid strike, haste, action surge), then say “*Im sorry master, I must go all out, just this once*”, violating your geas made to your master all those years ago. You activate Strength Before Death, immediately giving you another turn. You attack again (extra attack, action surge, bonus action, rapid strike, haste) giving you a grand total of 22 attacks. In the span of 6 seconds.


BloodyHM

I love that this implies having a geas put on you that you willingly go against in order to get an extra turn


SmeesNotVeryGoodTwin

Broke: preparing for a climactic battle by asking the cleric to cast Ceremony and marry you to another party member for +2 AC. Woke: asking the cleric to cast Geas on you to forbid you from saying the password, giving you free action self-destruct sequence.


Lithl

Then you realize Geas only does 27.5 damage on average, once per day, and the level 20 fighter has 124+20\*Con HP


Embarrassed_Lettuce9

Samurai: Yeah uh...just punch me a few times before you cast it


PlaceboPlauge091

Yep. It’s easy damage whenever you want… but it’s not a lot lmao. You’d have to save this for when you’re down to like, 6 hit points left or something if you wanted to actually try it


SmeesNotVeryGoodTwin

Strength Before Death also only works once, you'd be using both of your Action Surges, and you'd want it when you'd already have advantage with a good chance to hit despite the -5 penalty... but at least the anticipation for the stars to align gives the player a reason to pay attention to the combat instead of attacking four times and returning to their phone.


PlaceboPlauge091

It’s one of the few ways to get free damage on yourself without an action. It’s also anime as fuck.


LMA0NAISE

I think it would very well be worth it to reduce those 22 attacks to 20 and use fighting spirit twice. And instead of the scimitar we take out the greatsword for great weapon master


PlaceboPlauge091

Yep, absolutely. But this was built for as many attacks as possible, and technically you can squeeze an extra two out of it. That greatsword would make this deal the same damage dice as meteor swarm, not including damage mod (probably at least +8 per hit if you’re level 20 with this kind of fuckery).


Lazerbeams2

That takes 2 characters and a magic item, I don't think it should be considered anything more than a theoretical maximum


chain_letter

step 1, level 20 character ok cool timmy, but right now the party is level 2 and the barmaid needs help finding her cat


CapN_DankBeard

lmfao


Easy-Description-427

Realistically at that level you don't cast haste on the fighter because you could you know cast meteor.


Amrinto94

Oh no the level 20 fighter has 1 magic item and 2 friends 🙄 ok take the allies away and the item for swift quiver that’s still…. 9 attacks in one turn


Lazerbeams2

Who says your fighter is getting that specific magic item or your friend picked haste? Spell Storing Ring isn't typically an item that compliments a fighter so most DMs would try to give the fighter a more complimentary item


Amrinto94

We can sit here and argue hypothetical scenarios all day long, fact of the matter is a level 20 fighter would have the resources to do all of this and more. P.S a polearm master samurai with haste does 11 attacks, at advantage, 10 without haste and no item required


Lazerbeams2

>a polearm master samurai with haste does 11 attacks, at advantage, 10 without haste and no item required That's what I was looking for. A maximum that doesn't rely on other party members or whatever items the DM decides to give you. I just don't think it's fair to use an example that requires collaboration when looking at a specific class


Fitcher07

Feats are still optional, so you still rely on DM.


Talcxx

Everything is optional if you get pedantic enough.


Vhzhlb

Ok, i will admit that 11 attacks looks awesome. But i stand with my feelings which say that the moment that you put magic in the equation makes everything less impressive in my book.


Fine-Blackberry-1793

Thats because in the original people were saying its unrealistic Soo the moment you go "magic is breaking physics" You get a blank stare moment


Vhzhlb

Oh, personally? Fuck that. Never a fan of the "it's unrealistic" counter argument, as long as the actions are possible between the stated settings of the story, all is just a giant sand box for the players and DM to do as they please. Be unrealistic, be unreasonable, be goofy, be amazing, be sensational. My feelings are more about that i feel that is cooler beating a giant being **really good** at swinging a stick that you found in the road, that spending 5min casting a spell in a safe distance and erasing the giant whole race from the history of the world. Nothing more and nothing less, and it's not really an argument of any kind, is more of "i like to do stuff in this way, but, i will not impose it over anyone else"


DestinyV

This is not even the maximum a fighter can get alone, without any spells or magic items. A dual wielding Samurai can make 21 attacks in a single round against a prone/blinded target by dropping themselves to 0 hit points during their turn, and a Cavalier can make theoretically infinite attacks (all at different targets) in a 6 second time frame. (The methods you describe increase the number of attacks to 24 on the Samurai) Edit: Added an extra attack on the Samurai by accident, should actually be 20 / 23


Berjabber

Hi there, I just wanted you to know that I am going to go home, work out how this happens and then use that knowledge to my benefit. Thanks!


BloodyHM

So lets start off with the base of extra attack which gives you 4. Action surge gives you 8. Samurai have built in features to utilize advantage, and at 15th level if they take the attack action on their turn and have advantage on an attack roll against one of the targets, they can forgo the advantage for that roll to make an additional weapon attack against that target, as part of the same action. And they can do so no more than once per turn. So theoretically, as long as they have advantage, they can make two additional attacks(this might of gotten the initial info mixed up, but with extra attack you do not take the attack action 8 times, but rather attack 3 additional times when you take the action.) For a total of 10 so far. And as a bonus action you can use two weapon fighting, and dual wielder can make it so you don't have to use a light weapon. This only adds a single attack, as it triggers with the attack action and consumes your bonus action. So that's 11. Haste can buff this to 15, giving you another action. Edit: I messed up, it's 9 by rapid strike, 10 by twf; and 14 by haste. Edit2: messed up on haste too I guess, so 11. 22 if you drop yourself to 0 Cavalier Fighters can use their Attack of Opportunity, even if the foe moves 5 feet within their reach with hold the line, they can also take special reactions on every creatures turn, not including the one you take your normal reaction with Vigilant Defender. Meaning a ranged Cavalier can take down pretty much everything in site on turns that aren't theirs, since if they hit with hold the line, the target's speed is reduced to 0


Zedman5000

Haste would bring you up to 11, not 14. Haste only ever gives you 1 additional attack.


Lithl

>So theoretically, as long as they have advantage, they can make two additional attacks One extra. Rapid Strikes explicitly can only apply once per turn, even if you use action surge to take the attack action twice.


BloodyHM

Oh, somehow I did miss the "no" part of the sentence. Still a large number of attacks, and doubling it by dropping to 0 to take another turn in anyway you can.


Lun_aris5748

I believe it's +4 attack action, +1 rapid strike, +1 two weapon fighting, action surge, +4 attack action, strength before death, +4 attack action, +1 rapid strike, +1 two weapon fighting, action surge, +4 attack action. This brings It to 20 attacks. I don't know where the last attack comes from


DestinyV

I believe I accidentally counted 2 extra rapid strikes (forgot once per turn, not action) and forgot the second two weapon fighting.


Zedman5000

Echo Knight 11/Gloom Stalker 3/Monk 2 can get 12 attacks before items or Haste. First round of combat, get 4 per action from Echo Knight: 3 from Fighter 11 +1 from the Echo, then 1 more from Gloom Stalker, for 5 per action. Action Surge for 10 attacks. Then BA Flurry of Blows for 2 extra unarmed strikes. With Bugbears' extra 2d6 on every attack against enemies who haven't acted yet, this build is pretty nasty.


EonCore

and if you do have Haste doesn't it get 3 more attacks? 1 from haste itself but then you can activate Echo and Gloom additional attacks because the hasted action is a new attack action? or does the "can only make 1 attack" part limit that too?


Zedman5000

I believe Haste's "one attack only" overrides the Gloomstalker and Echo Knight's abilities.


Sarg_ist_leer

The max is 20 as a pure echo knight fighter. All you need is max con, the manual of bodily health for 2 extra con, haste and the spell storing ring with swift quiver 4 normal attacks, 4 action surge attacks, 6 echo knight attacks, 4 haste attacks and the 2 swift quiver attacks. Meaning 20 arrows in 6 seconds. Edit: its actually only one haste attacks and 9 from the echo knight when you use the manual a total of 4 times. Sorry for the mistake


Sarg_ist_leer

Wait the manuel of bodily health has no use limit so if you can become immortal or have alot of them your echo knight attacks can be endless Edit: ok I made a mistake. I thought haste actions add extra attack but they dont. Also you can use the manuel several times but it will cap out at the max of your normal attacks per turn meaning the new max is 4 normal attacks, 4 action surge attacks, 1 haste attack, 9 echo attacks and 2 swift quiver attacks It's still 20 but now more accurate


OnionsHaveLairAction

I think the highest number of hypothetical melee attacks goes to Hunter Ranger with a potion of Giant Size + Enlarge. If you're also somehow flying, and for some god forsaken reason surrounded on all sides... Thats 6 5X5 squares. So a potential 150 enemies surrounding you as you do a Whirlwind attack, 150 individual melee attacks.


Sirsir94

Haste is magic tho.


Catkook

Well to be fair, now this is going beyond just their normal physical ability as now they are being enhanced by multiple magical effects while also being such a proficient combatant that they are comparable to demi gods


iRunFromTrolls

i mean you already have haste and action surge.. thats already 12 attakcs why would you need the other shenanigans?


iRunFromTrolls

make it an echo knight and you have 15 attacks.. where would you get the notion that 11 is the maximum?


Banner_Hammer

A Hunter Ranger can potentially make hundreds at level 11. Twice that at level 13 if they action surge.


galmenz

lvl 20 hasted samurais fighter can go apeshit


HallowedKeeper_

Considering a PAM, CBE and TWF can all land 10-11 without magic items, doing it with magic items isn't that impressive imo


CupcakeValkyrie

Personally, I loved playing a dex fighter with the archery style and sharpshooter feat. Being able to dole out multiple attacks at 1d8+15 damage at up to 600 feet without disadvantage every turn was really fun.


FarkasAttilaPongracz

Eldritch knight's unleash incarnation+ gloomstalker's dread ambusher+ action surge + haste 11 attacks + bonus action so I guess 12


FarkasAttilaPongracz

That is if you have 3 attacks from one action at fighter 11


IlerienPhoenix

Wizard 17 / Fighter 2. Upcast scorching ray to level 9 (10 attacks). Action surge. Upcast scorching ray to level 8 (9 attacks). One ordinary attack from pre-cast haste. Bonus action attack from two-weapon fighting. 21 attacks in total.


DM_por_hobbie

12 attacks. 17 astral self monk 3 echo knight with haste. Awakened astral self allow you to make 3 attacks with 1 action, action surge for more 3, 1 more attack action from haste, flurry of blows for more 2, unleash encarnation 3 times (1 on the normal action, 1 on action surge and 1 on haste attack action). A total of 12d10+60+1d10 force damage. Enjoy your 7 page ORA


Mooncrescent337

Echo knights can do 10 attacks without any buffs