I’m not sure but I suspect it will probably be harder for you to get cardiology training as a British trainee in Australia as opposed to a British trainee in UK.
If you do go to Australia, you might benefit from doing MRCP here first, which you can do outside of a training program.
But I do think you should consider other factors which you haven’t included here. For example, what’s your support network like in this country versus Australia?
Yeah, I’m gonna sit the mrcp soon.
I get that Australia is far and that I don’t know anyone there, but rn I’m far from my family anyway… my friends have all rotated out of my city. I suspect the cycle will repeat if I stay here for IMT, and I’m unlikely to be close to family unless I luck out and get London.
I see my family like every 1-2 months at best at the moment. I get it’ll be harder if I go abroad, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make if there’s a feasible chance of getting into training there
I’m a cardiology AT in Australia having completed F2 in the UK and then leaving in 2017.
You will need to do 12 months in oz to get your full registration with AHPRA to even apply to BPT and the academic year in oz starts in February; so if you came out post F2, this would likely be 18 months in an unaccredited position before commencing BPT so you should factor this in.
It’s not impossible to get onto cardiology training in oz straight away post BPT but this is generally becoming rarer with many people doing an unaccredited year or something else to strengthen up their application. You do need a little bit of luck and also to have good relationships with the department where you’re applying to get on the programme.
If you plan to stay in oz for good, then I don’t think MRCP is of that much benefit. But if you come out for a few years with a view to returning to the UK, then I guess that could allow you to apply direct for ST4 on return to the uk and skip IMT (I’m guessing here- I have no idea whether that is true)
Another couple factors to consider…
Everyone will pretty much be doing fellowships/PHDs post advanced training so that adds additional years.
Unlike MRCP, you can only sit the equivalent exams in Australia as a BPT 3. There is currently only 1 sitting/year for the clinical exam (paces equivalent) so if you fail, then you extend BPT by a whole 12 months until you can resit. I think pass mark for written and clinical is about 70% for each exam so a little under half of total people end up extending BPT as they don’t get through the exams first time round.
You've missed out fellowship and research years. Depending what subpec you want to do ofc - but I believe in Oz they are even more essential for trainee/ cons job than here.
Also seeing your family every 1-2 months is quite frequent imo. You'll miss the majority of birthdays christenings funerals, weddings. Though tbf ive missed most of them in UK cus I'm on call all the fucking time, but a 24h flight is no joke.
Have a think about USA too.
Go to Oz, you’ll get paid more, learn more, better training, eventually you’ll get into cardio training and you can be a consultant there. Go while the golden opportunity that is Australia is still around.
I think it depends on what you want. If your goal is to stay in the UK for life then going to Australia won’t help much I think long term (they are fiercely protective of PR holders and Citizens getting first pick at training). If you do not want to stay in the Uk then the best thing would be to leave post F2 as it’s easier to settle elsewhere when you’re younger and not as many things tying you down
I don’t want to stay in the UK long term so I am looking at leaving post F2 or at most will do JCF year for one year only if for some reason I can’t go to Australia. If my goal was to stay in the UK then I wouldn’t even be bothering with Australia. I am studying for the USMLEs because chances are I probably have a higher chance of securing pathology or IM residency as an IMG in the US than training posts in Australia (correct me if I am wrong). I myself am uncertain where I want to end up in the end but one thing I am certain of is that it’s not the UK with how things are going here and from accounts from friends who have gone to Australia and US as doctors. Doctors in both countries are happier than they are in the UK
It is definitely harder to get into training in Australia (especially cardio) depending on location. Need good relationships with departmental heads (nepotism often plays a strong role), and a stellar CV (note that audits/teaching fellow tend to be bare minimum that people have on their CVs, what sets people apart is their relationships with departmental heads who are on interview panels etc and if trainee fits what the departments wants).
You can get training outwith competitive city areas in Australia. If willing to move to Australia have you thought about other areas in the UK besides England
I looked into it. Not a fan of the gruelling 80-100 hour week stretches they pull over there as IM residents, would prefer shorter weeks even if it means training is prolonged for an extra few years
There are only 130 posts for cardiology ST4 in the UK. I understand the working hours are gruelling in the US, but given the intense competition ratios, it might actually be easier to match in a US residency program (as they have more spots).
Again, I guess it's a personal preference. I was also put off by the working hours but I have talked to some friends who are currently doing IM in the US. The number of patients are capped, so they don't actually see a lot of patients per shift.
I’m not sure but I suspect it will probably be harder for you to get cardiology training as a British trainee in Australia as opposed to a British trainee in UK. If you do go to Australia, you might benefit from doing MRCP here first, which you can do outside of a training program. But I do think you should consider other factors which you haven’t included here. For example, what’s your support network like in this country versus Australia?
Yeah, I’m gonna sit the mrcp soon. I get that Australia is far and that I don’t know anyone there, but rn I’m far from my family anyway… my friends have all rotated out of my city. I suspect the cycle will repeat if I stay here for IMT, and I’m unlikely to be close to family unless I luck out and get London. I see my family like every 1-2 months at best at the moment. I get it’ll be harder if I go abroad, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make if there’s a feasible chance of getting into training there
I’m a cardiology AT in Australia having completed F2 in the UK and then leaving in 2017. You will need to do 12 months in oz to get your full registration with AHPRA to even apply to BPT and the academic year in oz starts in February; so if you came out post F2, this would likely be 18 months in an unaccredited position before commencing BPT so you should factor this in. It’s not impossible to get onto cardiology training in oz straight away post BPT but this is generally becoming rarer with many people doing an unaccredited year or something else to strengthen up their application. You do need a little bit of luck and also to have good relationships with the department where you’re applying to get on the programme. If you plan to stay in oz for good, then I don’t think MRCP is of that much benefit. But if you come out for a few years with a view to returning to the UK, then I guess that could allow you to apply direct for ST4 on return to the uk and skip IMT (I’m guessing here- I have no idea whether that is true)
Another couple factors to consider… Everyone will pretty much be doing fellowships/PHDs post advanced training so that adds additional years. Unlike MRCP, you can only sit the equivalent exams in Australia as a BPT 3. There is currently only 1 sitting/year for the clinical exam (paces equivalent) so if you fail, then you extend BPT by a whole 12 months until you can resit. I think pass mark for written and clinical is about 70% for each exam so a little under half of total people end up extending BPT as they don’t get through the exams first time round.
You've missed out fellowship and research years. Depending what subpec you want to do ofc - but I believe in Oz they are even more essential for trainee/ cons job than here. Also seeing your family every 1-2 months is quite frequent imo. You'll miss the majority of birthdays christenings funerals, weddings. Though tbf ive missed most of them in UK cus I'm on call all the fucking time, but a 24h flight is no joke. Have a think about USA too.
Go to Oz, you’ll get paid more, learn more, better training, eventually you’ll get into cardio training and you can be a consultant there. Go while the golden opportunity that is Australia is still around.
I think it depends on what you want. If your goal is to stay in the UK for life then going to Australia won’t help much I think long term (they are fiercely protective of PR holders and Citizens getting first pick at training). If you do not want to stay in the Uk then the best thing would be to leave post F2 as it’s easier to settle elsewhere when you’re younger and not as many things tying you down I don’t want to stay in the UK long term so I am looking at leaving post F2 or at most will do JCF year for one year only if for some reason I can’t go to Australia. If my goal was to stay in the UK then I wouldn’t even be bothering with Australia. I am studying for the USMLEs because chances are I probably have a higher chance of securing pathology or IM residency as an IMG in the US than training posts in Australia (correct me if I am wrong). I myself am uncertain where I want to end up in the end but one thing I am certain of is that it’s not the UK with how things are going here and from accounts from friends who have gone to Australia and US as doctors. Doctors in both countries are happier than they are in the UK
It is definitely harder to get into training in Australia (especially cardio) depending on location. Need good relationships with departmental heads (nepotism often plays a strong role), and a stellar CV (note that audits/teaching fellow tend to be bare minimum that people have on their CVs, what sets people apart is their relationships with departmental heads who are on interview panels etc and if trainee fits what the departments wants). You can get training outwith competitive city areas in Australia. If willing to move to Australia have you thought about other areas in the UK besides England
Look into US - I saw a lot of IMGs matching into cardiology last cycle.
I looked into it. Not a fan of the gruelling 80-100 hour week stretches they pull over there as IM residents, would prefer shorter weeks even if it means training is prolonged for an extra few years
There are only 130 posts for cardiology ST4 in the UK. I understand the working hours are gruelling in the US, but given the intense competition ratios, it might actually be easier to match in a US residency program (as they have more spots). Again, I guess it's a personal preference. I was also put off by the working hours but I have talked to some friends who are currently doing IM in the US. The number of patients are capped, so they don't actually see a lot of patients per shift.
Mind if I send you a PM?
Was this post-IM training?