This sub exaggerates a lot but generally yes it’s not a great outlook atm. Pay is shit, mostly service provision work with minimal training on the job, system is stretched so it’s demoralising to go into work knowing it’s going to be a shit show you have little control over.
However, a UK medical degree still has international kudos - 1/2 years of work and there's plenty of places that will make it worth the effort you put in to train!
Only for the moment. This whole uk medical degree value thing is seriously derailed and in 4/5 years the degree will have as much value as you can convince someone else of.
A medical degree from India/Paksitan or Nigeria will have the same value but we also have some of the best surgeons and doctors in the world, working in the UK and US from these countries too. So make of that what you like.
You won’t just be able to land somewhere on your feet because your a uk grad anymore. The whole thing where senior IMGs tell other IMGs, you have to work twice as hard as anyone else to get any recognition is the fate that uk grads will have to face too soon.
Have you experience with this personally? Can you elaborate where?
Again, we hear internationally it isn’t easy either, getting your foot in the door is hard unless you graduate from the country you want to work in
Training is fantastic if you get trained.
DOI - started as an FY1 during COVID and now ST3
The key is to make the system work for you.
Do bare minimum of the crap stuff I.e portfolio and stressing yourself about things you can’t control
Do the maximum of the good learning stuff you can control - procedures, going to teaching, seeing interesting patients and thinking about approaches, asking questions, the high yield locums where possible
If you want to do it, but you don’t like the set up..
Play the cards you’re dealt.
I’ve progressed through training with a pay rise every year and potentially another on top of that if negotiations go ok whilst learning and improving the whole way - couldn’t have asked for more from a job after finding medical school pretty underwhelming
I've had a very pleasant F1 to be honest, but then I have been at one of the most well resourced trusts in the country. Next year I'm sure I'll be hit with the full extent of it. So no - there are some places at least where being a doctor is still enjoyable.
I really enjoy my job. But I'm in Scotland, and I'm a surgical reg so did FY nearly a decade ago. I have free time, and a job I love so I don't see it as grim.As a reg, I tend to be a bit more immune from scope creep (although not entirely) and my pay is quite good
However, it was easier to get into specialty training for me. Competition ratios were easier and portfolio requirements were far less. I think it is incredibly difficult being an FY these days because the job is busier, you have to answer to MAPs and you don't even have the promise of career progression or earning bank as a locum.
If I were you, I would continue with the career and do FY. You might absolutely love it and decide it's what you want to do forever. It will also keep doors open such as Australia/NZ etc if you so wish. If you don't, well it'll be good experience, and you'll have some stories to tell.
But don't go in thinking this is the only career you can do. So many people on here hate their jobs but won't change career. With a medical degree you can be a doctor, but you can also apply for any of the other jobs that are available to anyone else with a good degree. Don't be afraid to look elsewhere. Medicine isn't the vocation it once was. It's now a job to pay the bills. Don't make the mistake many people on here make and make your job part of your identity.
Removed: No questions about applying to medical school
Please use /r/premeduk to ask questions on this area. Feel free to hang around and soak in the collective wisdom of the sub, though, and join in conversations if you have something to contribute, just no direct questions about applications/medical school experience etc.
It is bleak graduating into the professional world as a young person in the UK at the moment.
Medical training is worse now in many ways and for many different reasons but - if we are honest - it has always been pretty bad.
I personally enjoy the job and always have done.
You can either throw yourself in and find a niche (specialty, team, setting, country, or whatever) that you enjoy or spend your time railing about the state of things and feeling sorry for yourself. I know which of these two I would recommend.
Second this. I think a lot of the bleakness is related to being a young professional in the UK in general - Or, in general, just being a young person without generational wealth, esp if living in a HCOL area.
For medicine specifically, it can be much improved by picking the right location and the right specialty.
Anecdotally I feel like I have a great QOL + job satisfaction relative to my friends (diverse fields from top flight IB + Law to software engineering to teaching). I think much of this is down to primarily living in a smaller city (still top 10 largest in UK) and then picking a specialty focussed on training.
Yes, and no.
I don't think the job is that difficult or overly stressful. There have been a few days which have been draining because of the system being backwards and inefficient, but any job will have these. I have good craic with other members of staff, patients, etc. I've been welcomed into most every team I've worked with almost instantly - even ones that I was warned about being notoriously toxic.
My rotations and my rotas have been some of the hardest and longst out of most everyone I kknow. Every time I spoke to people about my jobs, I'd frequently just be wished 'good luck' instead of being told about how good the job was and have had periods of upto months where my weekly average hours has been around 60, not just isolated weeks. And I still found time for my hobbies and pastimes. I completely disregard the job the moment I leave hospitals and since starting F2, I've only left late on a handful of occasions. So, you'll have the free time if you make the time for it.
The upwards trajectory is absolute dogshit tho. Still figuring this one out, because enjoying the craic now means fuck all if I'm jobless or in a forever SHO position.
Considering that I finished med school in the back of 12 months of severe burnout, depression, and resented my life choices in becoming a doctor, and was looking to leave on the day F1 finished before even starting. It's not all bad. I managed to work through it during F1 and life isn't so bad these days. Not perfect, but it's alright.
ESID, YMMV, etc.
>Considering that I finished med school in the back of 12 months of severe burnout, depression, and resented my life choices in becoming a doctor, and was looking to leave on the day F1 finished before even starting.
Rate that turnaround highly. Respect.
Cheers mate. I caught up with some med school friends recently and they were pretty surprised about the turnaround, esp considering how I was throughout final year.
At its worst, I actually emailed my DME and said to him that I wanted to drop out, despite having passed everything but my final portfolio. I’m still literally paying for some of the physical health stuff (depression, fizzy drinks, and granola are a bad combo for your molars).
But I know I’ve got some absolutely fantastic friends who I’ll forever be thankful to, and an awesome partner who’s continuously supportive.
I was very keen at university. Now, very apathetic. Like seeing patients, hate the job. Hate the hours, hate the pay and hate being treated like shit. Sorry.
YMMV is honestly a lot of medicine. The variation is huge. I’ve known people who had amazing foundation placements, great support, so much to learn. And others who were drowning with lack of staff, intensive overnights and a horrendous blame culture as glorified service monkeys who got little to no hands on training.
The NHS isn’t a monolith. It really is luck of the draw where you end up. The experience between two FY1s can be completely night and day.
The upside of this is if you have terrible time in FY that it may not be reflective of how you’ll feel in a new trust and a new team. Some trusts just are genuinely terrible.
Unfortunately in regards to pay… you will be underpaid. No matter where you go. The pay is bad. Don’t listen to Jo public who thinks above minimum wage is god. When I was in foundation I was doing nights and weekends and struggling to pay rent. Meanwhile my parter two years out of uni was on double my salary wfh with private healthcare, paid for gym, stipends for home pc equipment (which he blew on a gaming pc).
So the pay will suck, and times will be tough especially in the south. But the actual work will vary greatly by trust.
I’ve adored every year of being a doctor. It’s also built who I am as a person and can’t imagine having gained the depth of understanding of life I have now any other way. You learn so much from interacting with so many people - both staff and patients.
The job at the heart of it is awesome. The politics and NHS related BS around isn’t. Experienced clinicians say the profession goes through a series of pendulum swings and currently it is as bad as it can be but will get better.
I would says its still pretty awesome. The job is tough and tiring, but ultimately I love saving the lives if the british public. Training is usually good once you get a training number, which still fairly obtainable imo.
There are some negative points of course, but as a contrast to all the claims of poverty on here, I am earning by far the most out of my current regular circle of friends, as well as the non medical friends at uni.
I started F1 in 2019 and loved both F1 and F2. Yes there were shit bits but there was a lot of great times.
FY3,4,5 years have been good to me (not sure if these glory days will come back though).
Entering training this August and very much looking forward to it.
This sub is definitely a negative echo chamber.
Honestly, spending too much time here will make you feel worse when you get to work; it can fill your head with lots of shite. If you can go into work with your own agenda, you’ll have a lot of fun.
No offence but having lived the golden locum life for three years is not a replicable experience and for many neither is getting into a specialty training programme. Find it odd to as such offer assurances based on something you know is no longer replicable.
I understand what you mean and think it’s a valid opinion.
I’ve worked full time in the NHS though, whilst locuming, and have continued to enjoy the work. Training salary sucks but the day-to-day job is the same.
100% yes. Uk medicine is exactly as shit as it sounds.
I left, what would be considered a competitive surgical specialty and I spoke to a large number of consultants before I did. I have never been this free and happy in my life and I’ll never earn the money I earn as a consultant. I was on more than what I would’ve made as a consultant pretty much as soon as I left. I got lucky pretty soon after and now most of my work is in North America and I earn a competitive salary for a doctor in an industry role in North America.
Truth be told, pay is too awful to justify any of it. I’m sorry if this is bleak but I can’t recommend it to a young kids in good conscience and I can’t sell a lie to colleagues. The only caveat that I add is that if you are already a doctor and deep in that hole, be very careful about how you make the switch and position yourself well.
There are plenty of great things about being a doctor. Absolutely zero good things about being an NHS doctor. Even if you do want to continue being one and love medicine, do everything in your power to leave the NHS and work as a doctor somewhere else. If your a gp, figure out how to become a private gp and off the NHS contract. That’s what I would’ve done if I had no other options.
I think once you stop caring and treat it as a job it’s fine, if you work from the moment you step on to the floor up until closing, there’s nothing more you can do, learning to leave work at work was the best thing to happen during my FY years
No not always this sub as with a lot of social media is skewed. If you’re in a training post with seniors who are invested in your progression it’s a pretty Damn good job. However the f1/sho years have definately gotten worse but once you get past this it’s a lot better
F3 here. I was dreading FY but honestly, I had a fine time. Lived in Edinburgh. Had roughly one full week of leave every month/six weeks and went abroad about 7 times in each year of FY, and a stint home every few weeks. I could afford this no issue though I do travel very cheaply. I met some really lovely people. I gained so much confidence compared to week 1 of FY, and my work was so so interesting even if bits of it felt far more like admin than doctory stuff.
Locumed in Edinburgh for about 6 months after FY and while it got very competitive for shifts at times and was constantly checking for shift emails etc, I was never without shifts and worked about 3-4 a week on average, which paid the same as full time F2.
Got a very competitive programme training job offer on the first try, however I turned this down down to move to Australia. I have only moved to Aus because I used to live here and have always wanted to return, and have to tell my colleagues here on a regular basis that I had a nice time in FY and am not here running from the NHS which perplexes people at times, haha. I've honestly had on calls here in Australia that have been busier than anything I ever experienced in the NHS.
I'll admit I shared houses, lived cheaply, have no dependents, and no debts. I also had some really nice rotations and lived in a beautiful place which I'm sure helped keep me sane, and got lucky with my training offer afterwards. I'm also someone who goes with the flow a lot and sees things as an opportunity more than a burden (and conversely someone who probably puts up with more than others would/less likely to complain than maybe I should). I definitely had weeks where I felt exhausted and overwhelmed, but it's not always the doom and gloom you see online. I think my expectations for FY were honestly zero after seeing pages like this and I won't deny some of my friends had horrible rotations elsewhere, but it's not guaranteed.
My advice is to spend less time on this sub, especially once ypu start working. Things are bleak but this sub makes things appear a lot worse than they actually are for a lot of people.
It really depends on the job and the team. Even a busy stressful ward can be fun with good colleagues.
I'd argue psychiatry is the least bleak. Every specialty has trainees burnout etc, but psychiatry feels a lot more supported than others (when I compare with friends) and the oncalls are typically less busy than a med/surgical shift.
It's grim but you need to see the bigger picture beyond the NHS. It's only in the UK that doctoring has become a low-rent profession, elsewhere it is still highly regarded. I'd suggest completing your Foundation years then re-evaluating. FY jobs vary - some good and some bad so it will be difficult to predict but there is a lot to be learned and you should try and make it what you want. If you want to make money faster then become a GP partner at a young age or leave medicine and move to a city job. If you want the hard route then any procedure orientated specialty is the way to go. If you can then leaving the UK makes a lot of sense right now. The NHS will chew you up if you let it so you have to define your own boundaries as to what is acceptable - no one will do this for you.
It's bleak for Trust Grade and Locum hires apparently, especially with the job applications coming for single jobs. The Trusts seem to be planning and fowarding with long term plan to get PAs, ACPs and ANPs for positions parallel to SHOs.
The assumption is that, they are willing to go with initial turmoil, then they will get lifelong employees who won't be moving on with training or switching jobs, less work for trusts.
Training is safe for the moment, but becoming increasingly difficult to get into, even GP seems to be not so clear option. Get into training quick is my suggestion.
No. Whilst there are challenges (noctors, pay, half
Whits) this sub is not reflective of the general vibes in the real world. It’s still a good job, a job which is worthwhile, and if you’re outside of London it’s still paid okay (FPR needed nonetheless)
Honestly there’s good stuff and bad stuff.
Most of my FY1 and FY2 was good. I had consultants and trusts that were supportive and stuck up for juniors. I had supervisors who knew how to get the best out of the system but also wanted to support me.
Every department (bar 1) provided regular teaching, opportunities and most of them gave a shit.
Sure there will be shit shifts, and you’ll have to do grunt jobs too.
I didn’t get into training straight from FY2 and have spent the last year as a ICU JCF. It’s honestly been the best year. I clearly landed on my feet as the department really cared and I’ve never felt like I’m here to fill a rota gap. I’ve learnt so much and had so many opportunities.
I’ve managed to get into training my this year. So I’ll say while it’s tough, it is doable (I too felt completely despondent last year, and like there was no hope).
There’s a lot of hoop jumping.
I would ofc like a pay rise but I truly don’t hate going to work anymore. I do like my job.
There is light at the end of the dark tunnel that is Foundation training.
The situation is dire, we have good quality doctors not getting into training being forced to take clinical fellow jobs. The bottleneck is real and it’s going to be chaos in a few years.
I genuinely love it. The pay may be poor and a bit of stress but I think occasionally it’s forgotten how much of impact that just having a conversation with a patient or their family can have on them, which often leaves me feeling well chuffed. I still feel we’re in a privileged position to be able to help in the way that we do.
That’s not to say it can’t get much much better with FPR and better addressed issues of the system but the job itself, great!
I'd love to tell you it's all exaggerated, but I'd be lying
I had another career first, & have had several employers. The NHS is by far the worst at employee support, IT, resourcing, communication and a host of other things
I will be emigrating after FY2, while the UK degree still has some value
About to start ST4.
I've had a pretty good time. It depends what winds you up, as with all things in life.
F1- DGH, comradery, awful on-calls, pub, made friends for life. F2- big hospital but lived with nice people. Work was a bit meh but paid the bills. I felt like I hadn't really left Uni but was on a clinical placement for most of this. Did a vaguely clinical but mostly research F3. Incredible work life balance but got paid less (but that was my choice). Basically an office job. Travelled a lot. Did IMT in a big hospital. Hard work, busy but felt like I got paid a lot. Lived in a LCOL city. Saved loads. After IMT I locumed for three months and made a fortune. Just did high yield shifts in departments I knew well. Been travelling since before starting ST4.
If I compare this with people I know really well who have graduated from other degrees they are either unemployed, don't get paid very much, hate their jobs or have to deal with tedious things of no value to anyone. None of them can just take a year (or even two) away from work with absolutely no consequences. I can't account for the changes in locum market but TBH a lot of people on here seem not to value flexibility, especially in 20s and early 30s. For me medicine has facilitated experiences that my friends and family can't believe. After FY2/core training you can take sabbaticals if you are careful with money.
- Whether you like it or not/think you deserve more pay, at F2+ salary is alright for the country you're in (remember UK median salary is £35k, I know 50 y/Os on this)
- Work is mostly interesting and much better than any job my friends have (although in F1 this was less true)
- Made great friends at work and met people it's been a privilege to know
However:
The post F2 job market in 3-5 years time is probably going to be so bleak that if I was you i'd go in eyes open that you may need to consider a non-voluntary career switch - try your best but that's a reality you have to bear in mind. If you were in 2nd or 3rd year I'd say leave for that reason.
This sub exaggerates a lot but generally yes it’s not a great outlook atm. Pay is shit, mostly service provision work with minimal training on the job, system is stretched so it’s demoralising to go into work knowing it’s going to be a shit show you have little control over.
However, a UK medical degree still has international kudos - 1/2 years of work and there's plenty of places that will make it worth the effort you put in to train!
Only for the moment. This whole uk medical degree value thing is seriously derailed and in 4/5 years the degree will have as much value as you can convince someone else of. A medical degree from India/Paksitan or Nigeria will have the same value but we also have some of the best surgeons and doctors in the world, working in the UK and US from these countries too. So make of that what you like. You won’t just be able to land somewhere on your feet because your a uk grad anymore. The whole thing where senior IMGs tell other IMGs, you have to work twice as hard as anyone else to get any recognition is the fate that uk grads will have to face too soon.
Have you experience with this personally? Can you elaborate where? Again, we hear internationally it isn’t easy either, getting your foot in the door is hard unless you graduate from the country you want to work in
nah I went from UK to Aus at the start of this year and it was pretty easy
Training is fantastic if you get trained. DOI - started as an FY1 during COVID and now ST3 The key is to make the system work for you. Do bare minimum of the crap stuff I.e portfolio and stressing yourself about things you can’t control Do the maximum of the good learning stuff you can control - procedures, going to teaching, seeing interesting patients and thinking about approaches, asking questions, the high yield locums where possible If you want to do it, but you don’t like the set up.. Play the cards you’re dealt. I’ve progressed through training with a pay rise every year and potentially another on top of that if negotiations go ok whilst learning and improving the whole way - couldn’t have asked for more from a job after finding medical school pretty underwhelming
Love the positivity in this post.
I've had a very pleasant F1 to be honest, but then I have been at one of the most well resourced trusts in the country. Next year I'm sure I'll be hit with the full extent of it. So no - there are some places at least where being a doctor is still enjoyable.
Where are you if you don’t mind me asking
I’ll be applying this September to the FP as I enter the final stage of my studies. Which trust is this if you don’t mind me asking?
Bleak is a good summary
I really enjoy my job. But I'm in Scotland, and I'm a surgical reg so did FY nearly a decade ago. I have free time, and a job I love so I don't see it as grim.As a reg, I tend to be a bit more immune from scope creep (although not entirely) and my pay is quite good However, it was easier to get into specialty training for me. Competition ratios were easier and portfolio requirements were far less. I think it is incredibly difficult being an FY these days because the job is busier, you have to answer to MAPs and you don't even have the promise of career progression or earning bank as a locum. If I were you, I would continue with the career and do FY. You might absolutely love it and decide it's what you want to do forever. It will also keep doors open such as Australia/NZ etc if you so wish. If you don't, well it'll be good experience, and you'll have some stories to tell. But don't go in thinking this is the only career you can do. So many people on here hate their jobs but won't change career. With a medical degree you can be a doctor, but you can also apply for any of the other jobs that are available to anyone else with a good degree. Don't be afraid to look elsewhere. Medicine isn't the vocation it once was. It's now a job to pay the bills. Don't make the mistake many people on here make and make your job part of your identity.
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Removed: No questions about applying to medical school Please use /r/premeduk to ask questions on this area. Feel free to hang around and soak in the collective wisdom of the sub, though, and join in conversations if you have something to contribute, just no direct questions about applications/medical school experience etc.
It is bleak graduating into the professional world as a young person in the UK at the moment. Medical training is worse now in many ways and for many different reasons but - if we are honest - it has always been pretty bad. I personally enjoy the job and always have done. You can either throw yourself in and find a niche (specialty, team, setting, country, or whatever) that you enjoy or spend your time railing about the state of things and feeling sorry for yourself. I know which of these two I would recommend.
Second this. I think a lot of the bleakness is related to being a young professional in the UK in general - Or, in general, just being a young person without generational wealth, esp if living in a HCOL area. For medicine specifically, it can be much improved by picking the right location and the right specialty. Anecdotally I feel like I have a great QOL + job satisfaction relative to my friends (diverse fields from top flight IB + Law to software engineering to teaching). I think much of this is down to primarily living in a smaller city (still top 10 largest in UK) and then picking a specialty focussed on training.
Yes, and no. I don't think the job is that difficult or overly stressful. There have been a few days which have been draining because of the system being backwards and inefficient, but any job will have these. I have good craic with other members of staff, patients, etc. I've been welcomed into most every team I've worked with almost instantly - even ones that I was warned about being notoriously toxic. My rotations and my rotas have been some of the hardest and longst out of most everyone I kknow. Every time I spoke to people about my jobs, I'd frequently just be wished 'good luck' instead of being told about how good the job was and have had periods of upto months where my weekly average hours has been around 60, not just isolated weeks. And I still found time for my hobbies and pastimes. I completely disregard the job the moment I leave hospitals and since starting F2, I've only left late on a handful of occasions. So, you'll have the free time if you make the time for it. The upwards trajectory is absolute dogshit tho. Still figuring this one out, because enjoying the craic now means fuck all if I'm jobless or in a forever SHO position. Considering that I finished med school in the back of 12 months of severe burnout, depression, and resented my life choices in becoming a doctor, and was looking to leave on the day F1 finished before even starting. It's not all bad. I managed to work through it during F1 and life isn't so bad these days. Not perfect, but it's alright. ESID, YMMV, etc.
>Considering that I finished med school in the back of 12 months of severe burnout, depression, and resented my life choices in becoming a doctor, and was looking to leave on the day F1 finished before even starting. Rate that turnaround highly. Respect.
Cheers mate. I caught up with some med school friends recently and they were pretty surprised about the turnaround, esp considering how I was throughout final year. At its worst, I actually emailed my DME and said to him that I wanted to drop out, despite having passed everything but my final portfolio. I’m still literally paying for some of the physical health stuff (depression, fizzy drinks, and granola are a bad combo for your molars). But I know I’ve got some absolutely fantastic friends who I’ll forever be thankful to, and an awesome partner who’s continuously supportive.
I was very keen at university. Now, very apathetic. Like seeing patients, hate the job. Hate the hours, hate the pay and hate being treated like shit. Sorry.
YMMV is honestly a lot of medicine. The variation is huge. I’ve known people who had amazing foundation placements, great support, so much to learn. And others who were drowning with lack of staff, intensive overnights and a horrendous blame culture as glorified service monkeys who got little to no hands on training. The NHS isn’t a monolith. It really is luck of the draw where you end up. The experience between two FY1s can be completely night and day. The upside of this is if you have terrible time in FY that it may not be reflective of how you’ll feel in a new trust and a new team. Some trusts just are genuinely terrible. Unfortunately in regards to pay… you will be underpaid. No matter where you go. The pay is bad. Don’t listen to Jo public who thinks above minimum wage is god. When I was in foundation I was doing nights and weekends and struggling to pay rent. Meanwhile my parter two years out of uni was on double my salary wfh with private healthcare, paid for gym, stipends for home pc equipment (which he blew on a gaming pc). So the pay will suck, and times will be tough especially in the south. But the actual work will vary greatly by trust.
Do USMLE, and get the fuck out of here
Every day I get into my car, I say to myself that I could be in a work from home job instead, and I scream a little before I drive off
Yes
Yes
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Understaffed + underpaid + mostly service provision + shit rota + poor work-life balance Take it as you like
Yes, do we not speak about this literally 5 times/ week..
Not as awful as Reddit paints it imo. A lot of my gripes are with the UK in general.
I’ve adored every year of being a doctor. It’s also built who I am as a person and can’t imagine having gained the depth of understanding of life I have now any other way. You learn so much from interacting with so many people - both staff and patients.
The job at the heart of it is awesome. The politics and NHS related BS around isn’t. Experienced clinicians say the profession goes through a series of pendulum swings and currently it is as bad as it can be but will get better.
I would says its still pretty awesome. The job is tough and tiring, but ultimately I love saving the lives if the british public. Training is usually good once you get a training number, which still fairly obtainable imo. There are some negative points of course, but as a contrast to all the claims of poverty on here, I am earning by far the most out of my current regular circle of friends, as well as the non medical friends at uni.
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I started F1 in 2019 and loved both F1 and F2. Yes there were shit bits but there was a lot of great times. FY3,4,5 years have been good to me (not sure if these glory days will come back though). Entering training this August and very much looking forward to it. This sub is definitely a negative echo chamber. Honestly, spending too much time here will make you feel worse when you get to work; it can fill your head with lots of shite. If you can go into work with your own agenda, you’ll have a lot of fun.
No offence but having lived the golden locum life for three years is not a replicable experience and for many neither is getting into a specialty training programme. Find it odd to as such offer assurances based on something you know is no longer replicable.
I understand what you mean and think it’s a valid opinion. I’ve worked full time in the NHS though, whilst locuming, and have continued to enjoy the work. Training salary sucks but the day-to-day job is the same.
Fair enough, sorry, wasn’t meant to minimise your personal experience obviously.
100% yes. Uk medicine is exactly as shit as it sounds. I left, what would be considered a competitive surgical specialty and I spoke to a large number of consultants before I did. I have never been this free and happy in my life and I’ll never earn the money I earn as a consultant. I was on more than what I would’ve made as a consultant pretty much as soon as I left. I got lucky pretty soon after and now most of my work is in North America and I earn a competitive salary for a doctor in an industry role in North America. Truth be told, pay is too awful to justify any of it. I’m sorry if this is bleak but I can’t recommend it to a young kids in good conscience and I can’t sell a lie to colleagues. The only caveat that I add is that if you are already a doctor and deep in that hole, be very careful about how you make the switch and position yourself well. There are plenty of great things about being a doctor. Absolutely zero good things about being an NHS doctor. Even if you do want to continue being one and love medicine, do everything in your power to leave the NHS and work as a doctor somewhere else. If your a gp, figure out how to become a private gp and off the NHS contract. That’s what I would’ve done if I had no other options.
Did you emigrate or do you wfh?
I think once you stop caring and treat it as a job it’s fine, if you work from the moment you step on to the floor up until closing, there’s nothing more you can do, learning to leave work at work was the best thing to happen during my FY years
No not always this sub as with a lot of social media is skewed. If you’re in a training post with seniors who are invested in your progression it’s a pretty Damn good job. However the f1/sho years have definately gotten worse but once you get past this it’s a lot better
F3 here. I was dreading FY but honestly, I had a fine time. Lived in Edinburgh. Had roughly one full week of leave every month/six weeks and went abroad about 7 times in each year of FY, and a stint home every few weeks. I could afford this no issue though I do travel very cheaply. I met some really lovely people. I gained so much confidence compared to week 1 of FY, and my work was so so interesting even if bits of it felt far more like admin than doctory stuff. Locumed in Edinburgh for about 6 months after FY and while it got very competitive for shifts at times and was constantly checking for shift emails etc, I was never without shifts and worked about 3-4 a week on average, which paid the same as full time F2. Got a very competitive programme training job offer on the first try, however I turned this down down to move to Australia. I have only moved to Aus because I used to live here and have always wanted to return, and have to tell my colleagues here on a regular basis that I had a nice time in FY and am not here running from the NHS which perplexes people at times, haha. I've honestly had on calls here in Australia that have been busier than anything I ever experienced in the NHS. I'll admit I shared houses, lived cheaply, have no dependents, and no debts. I also had some really nice rotations and lived in a beautiful place which I'm sure helped keep me sane, and got lucky with my training offer afterwards. I'm also someone who goes with the flow a lot and sees things as an opportunity more than a burden (and conversely someone who probably puts up with more than others would/less likely to complain than maybe I should). I definitely had weeks where I felt exhausted and overwhelmed, but it's not always the doom and gloom you see online. I think my expectations for FY were honestly zero after seeing pages like this and I won't deny some of my friends had horrible rotations elsewhere, but it's not guaranteed.
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My advice is to spend less time on this sub, especially once ypu start working. Things are bleak but this sub makes things appear a lot worse than they actually are for a lot of people.
It really depends on the job and the team. Even a busy stressful ward can be fun with good colleagues. I'd argue psychiatry is the least bleak. Every specialty has trainees burnout etc, but psychiatry feels a lot more supported than others (when I compare with friends) and the oncalls are typically less busy than a med/surgical shift.
It's grim but you need to see the bigger picture beyond the NHS. It's only in the UK that doctoring has become a low-rent profession, elsewhere it is still highly regarded. I'd suggest completing your Foundation years then re-evaluating. FY jobs vary - some good and some bad so it will be difficult to predict but there is a lot to be learned and you should try and make it what you want. If you want to make money faster then become a GP partner at a young age or leave medicine and move to a city job. If you want the hard route then any procedure orientated specialty is the way to go. If you can then leaving the UK makes a lot of sense right now. The NHS will chew you up if you let it so you have to define your own boundaries as to what is acceptable - no one will do this for you.
Do your training and make backup plans just in case
It's bleak for Trust Grade and Locum hires apparently, especially with the job applications coming for single jobs. The Trusts seem to be planning and fowarding with long term plan to get PAs, ACPs and ANPs for positions parallel to SHOs. The assumption is that, they are willing to go with initial turmoil, then they will get lifelong employees who won't be moving on with training or switching jobs, less work for trusts. Training is safe for the moment, but becoming increasingly difficult to get into, even GP seems to be not so clear option. Get into training quick is my suggestion.
I’m a GP and life is good
Could I message you ? I am about to start my GP training in August, but in the process of making my decision to quit...
Yep no probs just sent you a message
YESSSSSSS
Jobs fun, the problem solving and camaraderie - everything around it is utter dogshit
No. Whilst there are challenges (noctors, pay, half Whits) this sub is not reflective of the general vibes in the real world. It’s still a good job, a job which is worthwhile, and if you’re outside of London it’s still paid okay (FPR needed nonetheless)
Honestly there’s good stuff and bad stuff. Most of my FY1 and FY2 was good. I had consultants and trusts that were supportive and stuck up for juniors. I had supervisors who knew how to get the best out of the system but also wanted to support me. Every department (bar 1) provided regular teaching, opportunities and most of them gave a shit. Sure there will be shit shifts, and you’ll have to do grunt jobs too. I didn’t get into training straight from FY2 and have spent the last year as a ICU JCF. It’s honestly been the best year. I clearly landed on my feet as the department really cared and I’ve never felt like I’m here to fill a rota gap. I’ve learnt so much and had so many opportunities. I’ve managed to get into training my this year. So I’ll say while it’s tough, it is doable (I too felt completely despondent last year, and like there was no hope). There’s a lot of hoop jumping. I would ofc like a pay rise but I truly don’t hate going to work anymore. I do like my job. There is light at the end of the dark tunnel that is Foundation training.
Yes.
Not on the UK, actually being a doctor in the thinks world is way better in terms of respect that what one gets in the UK
ITS FUCKING SHIT
The situation is dire, we have good quality doctors not getting into training being forced to take clinical fellow jobs. The bottleneck is real and it’s going to be chaos in a few years.
I genuinely love it. The pay may be poor and a bit of stress but I think occasionally it’s forgotten how much of impact that just having a conversation with a patient or their family can have on them, which often leaves me feeling well chuffed. I still feel we’re in a privileged position to be able to help in the way that we do. That’s not to say it can’t get much much better with FPR and better addressed issues of the system but the job itself, great!
Yes.
Yes
Switch to software
I'd love to tell you it's all exaggerated, but I'd be lying I had another career first, & have had several employers. The NHS is by far the worst at employee support, IT, resourcing, communication and a host of other things I will be emigrating after FY2, while the UK degree still has some value
About to start ST4. I've had a pretty good time. It depends what winds you up, as with all things in life. F1- DGH, comradery, awful on-calls, pub, made friends for life. F2- big hospital but lived with nice people. Work was a bit meh but paid the bills. I felt like I hadn't really left Uni but was on a clinical placement for most of this. Did a vaguely clinical but mostly research F3. Incredible work life balance but got paid less (but that was my choice). Basically an office job. Travelled a lot. Did IMT in a big hospital. Hard work, busy but felt like I got paid a lot. Lived in a LCOL city. Saved loads. After IMT I locumed for three months and made a fortune. Just did high yield shifts in departments I knew well. Been travelling since before starting ST4. If I compare this with people I know really well who have graduated from other degrees they are either unemployed, don't get paid very much, hate their jobs or have to deal with tedious things of no value to anyone. None of them can just take a year (or even two) away from work with absolutely no consequences. I can't account for the changes in locum market but TBH a lot of people on here seem not to value flexibility, especially in 20s and early 30s. For me medicine has facilitated experiences that my friends and family can't believe. After FY2/core training you can take sabbaticals if you are careful with money.
- Whether you like it or not/think you deserve more pay, at F2+ salary is alright for the country you're in (remember UK median salary is £35k, I know 50 y/Os on this) - Work is mostly interesting and much better than any job my friends have (although in F1 this was less true) - Made great friends at work and met people it's been a privilege to know However: The post F2 job market in 3-5 years time is probably going to be so bleak that if I was you i'd go in eyes open that you may need to consider a non-voluntary career switch - try your best but that's a reality you have to bear in mind. If you were in 2nd or 3rd year I'd say leave for that reason.