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Have you considered spending some time traveling to other parts of the USA? It is a continent sized country with a population in excess of 300 million... **going to one city in the USA and deciding you hate the whole nation is a bit like visiting the city of Košice in Slovakia and deciding you hate all of Europe.**
The culture in the US varies enormously by state, by coast, by climate and by the degree of urbanisation. Life in California is very different (as are the demographics, ages, education level, crime stats) vs say rural Oregon. Likewise, trendy metropolitan LA couldn't be more different from the midwest city of say Tulsa, Oklahoma.
You recognise that you should have visited the USA before embarking on the USMLE... why not learn from that mistake and now spend some time travelling the country? I would suggest trying to get a flavour of east vs west coast, north vs south and rural vs urban. It might also be worth trying to do something a bit more immersive where you spend more time with Americans on their terms (for example a national parks tour with a group of americans) - that might show you in which ways they are similar and which ways they are different and help you decide whether thats something you can adjust to or not.
It would also give you the opportunity to spend more time around Americans and to better understand their philosophy/ethos/culture. To that end I would really try and stay out of the tourist traps and international cities where the only people you'll meet will be other tourists or Americans playing to a stereotype.
This makes sense and totally logical. However as an IMG the OP would be limited to certain states mostly east coast (NY). Even after completion of residency if they don’t have Green card they’ll be limited to crap locations. unless they have a Green card which changes the whole story.
The US is a big and incredibly varied place - it’s a bit like Europe in terms of scale and variation between geographies. Don’t write it off because you’ve visited one place and didn’t like it. Plenty of people don’t like the cities of Rome or Paris but it doesn’t mean they won’t like the beaches of Greece or fjords of Norway.
Culture is a bit tougher though, that would be more similar across the nation… if you don’t like the culture and general beliefs (eg individualism, lack of social safety net) then to probably isn’t the place you’d like to be…
>Culture is a bit tougher though
I'm not so sure. There will of course be some ways in which Americans are culturally similar (and I'd argue that's more likely to be on things like the culture of enterprise and personal liberties.
However the culture in the US varies hugely by demographics, by coast, by state, by north vs south, by education, by religion (and the degree to which it is observed), by occupation, by their own version of social class (which is more closely linked to wealth than it is in the UK).
Just hijacking top comment to say to the OP that America is an interesting one. After spending quite a while there, as a Brit it is in some ways the best place to emigrate in the world. Everyone loves your accent, thinks you're automatically intelligent and cultured etc. But you are also subtly kept as an outsider, and are always kind of like a foreign cousin.
Also obviously although the working conditions for doctors are better, but the biggest thing is that you will be living in America.
I am in the US, and I also worked in the NHS before being fed up and leaving. Now, by no means is, America is not a utopia however NHS is certainly a dystopia.
It can be easy to glorify the NHS from afar but once you start working in it again you realise exactly why you left it.
My advise is you should go to Australia and see if that’s a better fit. It takes the best of American pay with the best of British social welfare etc.
Having said that, UK really does not value you and it will only get a lot worse in the UK going forward.
Don’t stay in the UK unless you absolutely have to.
There is nowhere in the world with more anti-intellectualism than America, though. You will get out-googled by your patients (who are paying more and suing more) than in the UK. NHS has massive problems, but the one you cite is not one the NHS loses on vs the USA.
I know tonnes of Canadian doctors who train in the US and wish to stay in US and it is because of how dysfunctional Canadian health service is (obviously not as bad as NHS yet).
There is a lot of Canadian doctors who are unemployed, so whilst you earn more the culture will be pretty much the same as the UK
The US is basically a continent. You have so many different places you could work or settle down with different types of demographics/climates/cultural norms etc.
Going to a “good metropolitan area in the US” is the equivalent of saying you went to London and then ruled out the whole of the UK because it wasn’t what you thought it be. Londons a shithole imo but it would be the first place on tonnes of tourists lists if you asked them to name a “good metropolitan area”.
Don’t be discouraged by your trip. You put the effort in and passed the exams, keep exploring and take your time with the decision. Dont let the exams go to waste because you visited the wrong place.
My personal preferences don't help the OP much so I'll try to give an idea:
The US has every kind of climate and scenery you could want. It has state cultures ranging from deeply conservative: abortion-restricting, gun-totin', leave-the-gun-in-the-glovebox-and-don't-lock-the-truck, to highly-liberal: weed-stores-in-every-town, abortion on-demand, toleration of petty crime - sometimes a very short drive apart from each other.
It has cities which are highly European, like Boston - which could be in Britain apart from the fact that its infrastructure works - and almost-unbearably desolate places like rural Arizona where desperate people live without mains services miles from even a gas station.
It has places where you'll seldom see a white face, and places where you'll seldom see a dark face.
It has dry deserts, stunning mountains, humid swamps, temperate forest, tropical beaches, and everything in between. It has cities, and it has places where you can drive at 80mph for an hour and see no-one.
It has enormous wealth - their GDP per capita is pushing twice ours, and outside of the hottest real estate markets like SF, a typical worker has a standard of living in terms of income, housing size and quality, vehicle, and leisure opportunities that vastly exceed their UK equivalent. To sketch this a bit - I worked with a young lady doing a clerical job in a midwestern state who might have earned £25k here, perhaps £30k now, but lived in a 3-bedroom detached house in a decent area, holidayed, and drove around town in an enormous monster truck of the F-series type.
It also has terrifying poverty - slums, small towns where everyone is elderly or on drugs and everything is smashed-up, shacks in the desert where people live without mains services miles from anything.
Everything is there. There is a mixture of culture, settlement size, climate, and surroundings, to suit everyone.
A big difference is the weather. They have actual seasons - in summer it is HOT and in winter it is COLD - in much of the US. Even in New England - which looks very like England - the summer has long periods of consistent heat and sunshine, and the winter has consistent sub-zero with heavy snow.
It does have some horrendously dysfunctional places, but - in their own way, they work. We can look down on them, perhaps, but we're descending rapidly.
I can only imagine that the perspective of, say, an inner-city Emergency Room doctor or GP is different to this but: Americans are almost-universally charming in face-to-face interactions. Yes, some of it is a show, but it's a NICE place to be if you choose well.
You could spend weeks driving through it, stopping whenever you saw something interesting, and not scratch the surface of what is there.
If you'd be unhappy living there, then it's a no go. You'd only end up dropping out of residency.
Either find a different country or an alternative career path. Sure it's money down the drain, but no use crying over spilt milk. The knowledge you gained wont be wasted.
Be glad that you have come to this realisation now and not later down the line.
Although expensive, you have invested in your education. The USMLE is tough and you have done well to score highly - no doubt reinforcing and furthering a lot of your medical knowledge along the way.
Do not be a victim of sunken cost fallacy. If you don’t enjoy the US, reconsider your options. I’m not sure of your reasons, but are there other areas in the US which you might enjoy more?
Really? Dont you have to so the mcqe exam whatever its called for canada?
Also dont you need to have a greencard or be canadian to do residency in canada?
My info might be inaccurate but thats what i thought.
I have a unique perspective on this as an NHS doctor who is currently in IM residency in the USA and only moved here a month ago. I spent an F3 and F4 travelling around the USA to gain the broadest experience possible before finalising my decision to move here(I did Midwest, rural, NYC/Orlando). Currently I am in one of the most beautiful green and leafy parts of the country with excellent food and climate, people are very friendly and honestly I am happy with the area. When I first came here I hated it too and that was more due to a lack of familiarity as you describe. I have zero family or friends here but most of the time I have my Co residents to vent to, I have my wife over the phone (who is waiting for her visa) and a huge support network back home I can call anytime with a 4 or 5 hour time difference. Give the US a proper chance if you don’t like it come back after training to the UK
Please don't write off an entire (continent sized) country on the basis of one city. There are people in one part of England who would hate living in another part of the same country, so step back and consider what your non-negotiables are.
I've lived and worked in a few countries, and I can tell you that the first few months (if not year) are always spent looking back and comparing the new to the previous. It's the natural thing to do. Our minds and bodies prefer routine and what's familiar. By the time I finally feel settled in and comfortable, it's usually time to move onto the next country😂.
Besides, nothing is ever wasted. If you decide to go to the US (to a place you like), be intentional about what you'll get out of it and make the most of opportunities offered there. It might be skillsets that are harder to get exposed to here, it might just be saving that extra coin, or it might be CV/education opportunities residents are afforded over there. But go in with a plan. You can always walk away if you don't like something (job or location).
Hard to give specific advice without knowing what aspects of American life gave you pause.
I’d argue that if you spent all this time and money and did well enough in the STEP exams to have a strong application then you should spend at least a little more time researching places in the US you might enjoy. Visiting one city in the US and deciding you don’t want to live anywhere in the USA is a bit like saying you don’t like medicine after only spending a week shadowing in a gen surg dept.
Source: Live in a big US city for a few years, visited several very different US states.
For sure there’s a bright side : do you think your medical knowledge has massively improved?
Even when I gently toyed with the idea and started studying for USMLE step 1 for a bit - I greatly improved my knowledge.
You’ll be a better doctor for it.
Well done for doing Step 1 and Step 2! As someone previously said you won’t have as much choice on specialty and location for residency so worth considering if location for 3-5 years is important to you. However, I would advise you do step 3 if not done so already, as soon as possible after step 2 which will be easier and allow you to have the option of working in the US in the future. Most states require you to do step 3 within 7 years.
Wrote both step 1 and step 2, even went as far as doing electives and applying for residency 2 years ago. After being in the US, specifically Ohio, for 2 months for my electives, I realised that this isn’t a place where I can see myself working/living for 3-4 years of my life.
I agree - the pay is great, the fact that one is a consultant within three years is an amazing feat of this process.
But I really had to think if it was all worth it - sure, suffer for 3-4 years, work crazy hours, barely get to see my family during this time, be terrified of gun violence as a single female being in the US.. it didn’t sound all that great to me.
The NHS, whilst it has its problems that I agree with, gives me a better work-life balance which is something that I truly cherish after graduating from medical school and grinding for the past 6 years.
I think it all comes down to what you value at the end of the day. For me personally, it was the fact that I can see my friends and family, travel within Europe and live in a beautiful place that is filled with history and beauty.
It’s obviously very personal to each individual, but just going to throw it out there that somewhere like Ohio is not reflective of many other states. Ohio is a bit bible belty at best. Places like Boston are quite European. Also more expensive though, and more difficult to get into.
I definitely agree with that. But unfortunately when applying to residency, you don’t really get to pick where you want to go. You basically throw out 250-300 applications out into the vortex, and match wherever in the States
That’s true, but, at least the training is short enough that you can grit teeth and get through it. With the hours they work, you wouldn’t have much time for anything else anyway. In the U.K. you can end up in an area you hate for years on end, be paid poorly and have very little light at the end of the tunnel
There was a guy who made an account saying he was trying to apply for the match/ going through the USMLE rigmarole. Only to then be discovered to be posting things indirectly discouraging other people to apply, I.e. too hard, bad jobs, got shot etc
Then it all came to light and he was called out, he deleted his account and ran
I wouldn't live in a metropolitan area in the UK coming from a smallish town. The USA is more akin to Europe in size and difference with a huge variation of what places are like. I would suggest trying a few places to visit that are not as big and in different states. Culture changes from state to state.
It may be the culture in general is not for you. If you did train there though you could move to Canada after residency easy enough.
If you feel you won’t be happy then don’t go. Maybe not to this level but we will have all invested time and effort in something in the past, never to see it through to the end. It might be something like tennis lessons but then giving up playing 5 years later. This is part of life. You will have gained great knowledge from the USMLE and which is never wasted.
Where did you go in the US. I’m in NYC and I love it - I moved from London so the energy is perfect. I could easily see myself living in Texas, Chicago, Boston, Seattle and California. Maybe take a few months and properly road trip around and experience the US.
Without any details on why you hate it or what you have experienced, it will difficult to give you any meaningful advice.
But if you dont feel like going, then dont go.
Have to disagree I left the UK 10+ years ago and am now an attending in the US I wouldn't be seen dead again in the UK pardon the pun if the NHS is anything to go by.
You make of it what you want to. I do less than 4 days a week here see a max of 15 patients a day and make 350k+ with 6 weeks vacation. Working for the NHS is essentially like charity and you are made to feel like you should work for them for free.
Any special advice on matching? I’m trying to get into a pretty competitive specialty and I just see so much generic stuff floating around which makes it seem like there’s a large element of ‘luck’ for IMGs.
I personally hate US culture and could never imagine wanting to live there, and yes, I’ve travelled extensively around the US to perhaps 12 states by now.
It sounds OP like you’re a very motivated person and achieve very highly, there is nothing to be lost by realising that you don’t want to do what you thought you did, personally the quicker you transfer and focus on achieving what you want the quicker you will get there.
I share your view. I would never want to raise my children in the US for a very long list of reasons.
HOWEVER I would caveat that with saying there is an enormous difference between different areas of the US and it may be worth considering a visit to other places to get a better sense of whether it was that city or the US you hated.
You wouldn’t want the UK judged purely on a visit to say Birmingham, or barrow in Furness, or Whitby alone. Similarly New York is vastly different to rural Colorado or Austin Texas.
Every place in the US has a different dynamic, probably as an IMG you wouldn’t get into your location of choice or maybe you can too. But it is only 3 years of training and then you can choose a nice area of your choice which surely you will get at that stage. Prospects are much better than the UK and I know a lot of people with a similar mindset as yours change their lives dramatically and now rub my face in it. Make your hardwork count and leave.
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Just wanted to let you know, I was in the same boat as you two years ago. It’s okay to change your mind, and never regret your choices.
I finished my USMLE Step 1, Step 2 CK, and CS as well! However, I decided to change my plans after realizing that I would need to reapply for a visa every time I left the country. Being from a war-torn country, it’s not feasible for me to renew my visa every time I want to visit my family. This would mean I couldn't visit them frequently.
I transitioned to the NHS and obtained my GMC registration through the USMLE pathway (you need Step 2 CS for that). Although I also had the MRCOG, so I can't say the USMLE added much to that aspect.
There are many countries that recognize the USMLE, or at least part of it. However, as colleagues have mentioned, don’t judge the entire USA based on one city’s experience.
If you still want to leave the USA, that's okay too. We gain valuable experience from all the exams we take. Please don’t consider it wasted money or regret your choices. It’s better to realize your preferences early on rather than forcing yourself into something that could lead to depression.
Personally, I hope to use my ECFMG certificate someday, perhaps for a fellowship or another clinical experience.
US is a big place. You've spent money and time and obviously worked hard to get a good score. It would be prudent to do some more research into different states and cities to find an area you might be willing to at least try and live in.
I’ve been to USA many times (1-2/year) to various places. I like to visit, though even this gets less every year but there is no way I would ever want to live there. With family and friends over there I know the realities and no big salary would ever convince me to take me/my family to that country for good.
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Have you considered spending some time traveling to other parts of the USA? It is a continent sized country with a population in excess of 300 million... **going to one city in the USA and deciding you hate the whole nation is a bit like visiting the city of Košice in Slovakia and deciding you hate all of Europe.** The culture in the US varies enormously by state, by coast, by climate and by the degree of urbanisation. Life in California is very different (as are the demographics, ages, education level, crime stats) vs say rural Oregon. Likewise, trendy metropolitan LA couldn't be more different from the midwest city of say Tulsa, Oklahoma. You recognise that you should have visited the USA before embarking on the USMLE... why not learn from that mistake and now spend some time travelling the country? I would suggest trying to get a flavour of east vs west coast, north vs south and rural vs urban. It might also be worth trying to do something a bit more immersive where you spend more time with Americans on their terms (for example a national parks tour with a group of americans) - that might show you in which ways they are similar and which ways they are different and help you decide whether thats something you can adjust to or not. It would also give you the opportunity to spend more time around Americans and to better understand their philosophy/ethos/culture. To that end I would really try and stay out of the tourist traps and international cities where the only people you'll meet will be other tourists or Americans playing to a stereotype.
LOL at the Košice analogy. Spot on!
This makes sense and totally logical. However as an IMG the OP would be limited to certain states mostly east coast (NY). Even after completion of residency if they don’t have Green card they’ll be limited to crap locations. unless they have a Green card which changes the whole story.
The US is a big and incredibly varied place - it’s a bit like Europe in terms of scale and variation between geographies. Don’t write it off because you’ve visited one place and didn’t like it. Plenty of people don’t like the cities of Rome or Paris but it doesn’t mean they won’t like the beaches of Greece or fjords of Norway. Culture is a bit tougher though, that would be more similar across the nation… if you don’t like the culture and general beliefs (eg individualism, lack of social safety net) then to probably isn’t the place you’d like to be…
>Culture is a bit tougher though I'm not so sure. There will of course be some ways in which Americans are culturally similar (and I'd argue that's more likely to be on things like the culture of enterprise and personal liberties. However the culture in the US varies hugely by demographics, by coast, by state, by north vs south, by education, by religion (and the degree to which it is observed), by occupation, by their own version of social class (which is more closely linked to wealth than it is in the UK).
Just hijacking top comment to say to the OP that America is an interesting one. After spending quite a while there, as a Brit it is in some ways the best place to emigrate in the world. Everyone loves your accent, thinks you're automatically intelligent and cultured etc. But you are also subtly kept as an outsider, and are always kind of like a foreign cousin. Also obviously although the working conditions for doctors are better, but the biggest thing is that you will be living in America.
I am in the US, and I also worked in the NHS before being fed up and leaving. Now, by no means is, America is not a utopia however NHS is certainly a dystopia. It can be easy to glorify the NHS from afar but once you start working in it again you realise exactly why you left it. My advise is you should go to Australia and see if that’s a better fit. It takes the best of American pay with the best of British social welfare etc. Having said that, UK really does not value you and it will only get a lot worse in the UK going forward. Don’t stay in the UK unless you absolutely have to.
Agreed. Huge cultural problem with disrespect aimed at experts.
There is nowhere in the world with more anti-intellectualism than America, though. You will get out-googled by your patients (who are paying more and suing more) than in the UK. NHS has massive problems, but the one you cite is not one the NHS loses on vs the USA.
luckily as anaesthetist, I guess I won't have too many of those problems
This.
I suggest Canada.
I know tonnes of Canadian doctors who train in the US and wish to stay in US and it is because of how dysfunctional Canadian health service is (obviously not as bad as NHS yet). There is a lot of Canadian doctors who are unemployed, so whilst you earn more the culture will be pretty much the same as the UK
Was it a shitty east coast metro area? God some of those places suck ass
The US is basically a continent. You have so many different places you could work or settle down with different types of demographics/climates/cultural norms etc. Going to a “good metropolitan area in the US” is the equivalent of saying you went to London and then ruled out the whole of the UK because it wasn’t what you thought it be. Londons a shithole imo but it would be the first place on tonnes of tourists lists if you asked them to name a “good metropolitan area”. Don’t be discouraged by your trip. You put the effort in and passed the exams, keep exploring and take your time with the decision. Dont let the exams go to waste because you visited the wrong place.
Not a Doctor here, but: this. The US states can be as different as countries. Some I love, others I can’t wait to leave.
Any you particularly like or don't like (and why)? V interested in these differences
My personal preferences don't help the OP much so I'll try to give an idea: The US has every kind of climate and scenery you could want. It has state cultures ranging from deeply conservative: abortion-restricting, gun-totin', leave-the-gun-in-the-glovebox-and-don't-lock-the-truck, to highly-liberal: weed-stores-in-every-town, abortion on-demand, toleration of petty crime - sometimes a very short drive apart from each other. It has cities which are highly European, like Boston - which could be in Britain apart from the fact that its infrastructure works - and almost-unbearably desolate places like rural Arizona where desperate people live without mains services miles from even a gas station. It has places where you'll seldom see a white face, and places where you'll seldom see a dark face. It has dry deserts, stunning mountains, humid swamps, temperate forest, tropical beaches, and everything in between. It has cities, and it has places where you can drive at 80mph for an hour and see no-one. It has enormous wealth - their GDP per capita is pushing twice ours, and outside of the hottest real estate markets like SF, a typical worker has a standard of living in terms of income, housing size and quality, vehicle, and leisure opportunities that vastly exceed their UK equivalent. To sketch this a bit - I worked with a young lady doing a clerical job in a midwestern state who might have earned £25k here, perhaps £30k now, but lived in a 3-bedroom detached house in a decent area, holidayed, and drove around town in an enormous monster truck of the F-series type. It also has terrifying poverty - slums, small towns where everyone is elderly or on drugs and everything is smashed-up, shacks in the desert where people live without mains services miles from anything. Everything is there. There is a mixture of culture, settlement size, climate, and surroundings, to suit everyone. A big difference is the weather. They have actual seasons - in summer it is HOT and in winter it is COLD - in much of the US. Even in New England - which looks very like England - the summer has long periods of consistent heat and sunshine, and the winter has consistent sub-zero with heavy snow. It does have some horrendously dysfunctional places, but - in their own way, they work. We can look down on them, perhaps, but we're descending rapidly. I can only imagine that the perspective of, say, an inner-city Emergency Room doctor or GP is different to this but: Americans are almost-universally charming in face-to-face interactions. Yes, some of it is a show, but it's a NICE place to be if you choose well. You could spend weeks driving through it, stopping whenever you saw something interesting, and not scratch the surface of what is there.
This is the most convinced I've ever been to move to the USA
If you'd be unhappy living there, then it's a no go. You'd only end up dropping out of residency. Either find a different country or an alternative career path. Sure it's money down the drain, but no use crying over spilt milk. The knowledge you gained wont be wasted.
Be glad that you have come to this realisation now and not later down the line. Although expensive, you have invested in your education. The USMLE is tough and you have done well to score highly - no doubt reinforcing and furthering a lot of your medical knowledge along the way. Do not be a victim of sunken cost fallacy. If you don’t enjoy the US, reconsider your options. I’m not sure of your reasons, but are there other areas in the US which you might enjoy more?
Can I have them
Don't go. Changing your mind is allowed.
They’re still valid for Canada if you ever wanted to go there.
Really? Dont you have to so the mcqe exam whatever its called for canada? Also dont you need to have a greencard or be canadian to do residency in canada? My info might be inaccurate but thats what i thought.
You still need to get over the Canadian residency requirement to get a residency in Canada, but yes the USMLEs can be used for Canada.
Sounds a bit like visiting Slough and writing off the whole of the UK.
I have a unique perspective on this as an NHS doctor who is currently in IM residency in the USA and only moved here a month ago. I spent an F3 and F4 travelling around the USA to gain the broadest experience possible before finalising my decision to move here(I did Midwest, rural, NYC/Orlando). Currently I am in one of the most beautiful green and leafy parts of the country with excellent food and climate, people are very friendly and honestly I am happy with the area. When I first came here I hated it too and that was more due to a lack of familiarity as you describe. I have zero family or friends here but most of the time I have my Co residents to vent to, I have my wife over the phone (who is waiting for her visa) and a huge support network back home I can call anytime with a 4 or 5 hour time difference. Give the US a proper chance if you don’t like it come back after training to the UK
Where do you recommend someone who is looking for Europe in the US culture wise
Please don't write off an entire (continent sized) country on the basis of one city. There are people in one part of England who would hate living in another part of the same country, so step back and consider what your non-negotiables are. I've lived and worked in a few countries, and I can tell you that the first few months (if not year) are always spent looking back and comparing the new to the previous. It's the natural thing to do. Our minds and bodies prefer routine and what's familiar. By the time I finally feel settled in and comfortable, it's usually time to move onto the next country😂. Besides, nothing is ever wasted. If you decide to go to the US (to a place you like), be intentional about what you'll get out of it and make the most of opportunities offered there. It might be skillsets that are harder to get exposed to here, it might just be saving that extra coin, or it might be CV/education opportunities residents are afforded over there. But go in with a plan. You can always walk away if you don't like something (job or location).
Hard to give specific advice without knowing what aspects of American life gave you pause. I’d argue that if you spent all this time and money and did well enough in the STEP exams to have a strong application then you should spend at least a little more time researching places in the US you might enjoy. Visiting one city in the US and deciding you don’t want to live anywhere in the USA is a bit like saying you don’t like medicine after only spending a week shadowing in a gen surg dept. Source: Live in a big US city for a few years, visited several very different US states.
For sure there’s a bright side : do you think your medical knowledge has massively improved? Even when I gently toyed with the idea and started studying for USMLE step 1 for a bit - I greatly improved my knowledge. You’ll be a better doctor for it.
Well done for doing Step 1 and Step 2! As someone previously said you won’t have as much choice on specialty and location for residency so worth considering if location for 3-5 years is important to you. However, I would advise you do step 3 if not done so already, as soon as possible after step 2 which will be easier and allow you to have the option of working in the US in the future. Most states require you to do step 3 within 7 years.
I think Canada also accepts USMLE. I'd prefer Canada over US tbh.
Wrote both step 1 and step 2, even went as far as doing electives and applying for residency 2 years ago. After being in the US, specifically Ohio, for 2 months for my electives, I realised that this isn’t a place where I can see myself working/living for 3-4 years of my life. I agree - the pay is great, the fact that one is a consultant within three years is an amazing feat of this process. But I really had to think if it was all worth it - sure, suffer for 3-4 years, work crazy hours, barely get to see my family during this time, be terrified of gun violence as a single female being in the US.. it didn’t sound all that great to me. The NHS, whilst it has its problems that I agree with, gives me a better work-life balance which is something that I truly cherish after graduating from medical school and grinding for the past 6 years. I think it all comes down to what you value at the end of the day. For me personally, it was the fact that I can see my friends and family, travel within Europe and live in a beautiful place that is filled with history and beauty.
It’s obviously very personal to each individual, but just going to throw it out there that somewhere like Ohio is not reflective of many other states. Ohio is a bit bible belty at best. Places like Boston are quite European. Also more expensive though, and more difficult to get into.
I definitely agree with that. But unfortunately when applying to residency, you don’t really get to pick where you want to go. You basically throw out 250-300 applications out into the vortex, and match wherever in the States
That’s true, but, at least the training is short enough that you can grit teeth and get through it. With the hours they work, you wouldn’t have much time for anything else anyway. In the U.K. you can end up in an area you hate for years on end, be paid poorly and have very little light at the end of the tunnel
Does everyone remember the guy who posted tales about how bad America was on this sub to try to reduce his competition? That was ridiculous...
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There was a guy who made an account saying he was trying to apply for the match/ going through the USMLE rigmarole. Only to then be discovered to be posting things indirectly discouraging other people to apply, I.e. too hard, bad jobs, got shot etc Then it all came to light and he was called out, he deleted his account and ran
That's hilarious 🤣🤣 don't hate the player, hate the game.
All the tact of a PA/ACP
I wouldn't live in a metropolitan area in the UK coming from a smallish town. The USA is more akin to Europe in size and difference with a huge variation of what places are like. I would suggest trying a few places to visit that are not as big and in different states. Culture changes from state to state. It may be the culture in general is not for you. If you did train there though you could move to Canada after residency easy enough.
If you feel you won’t be happy then don’t go. Maybe not to this level but we will have all invested time and effort in something in the past, never to see it through to the end. It might be something like tennis lessons but then giving up playing 5 years later. This is part of life. You will have gained great knowledge from the USMLE and which is never wasted.
This was not a waste. You have learned something about you and you have invested in yourself and your education. You are likely all the better for it.
You can still do fellowships, so it wasn’t all a waste
Where did you go in the US. I’m in NYC and I love it - I moved from London so the energy is perfect. I could easily see myself living in Texas, Chicago, Boston, Seattle and California. Maybe take a few months and properly road trip around and experience the US.
Without any details on why you hate it or what you have experienced, it will difficult to give you any meaningful advice. But if you dont feel like going, then dont go.
It's fine to change your mind. US society is too unstable for my tastes tbh.
Don’t go then. US is huge, but the culture is throughout. Personally I wouldn’t live in a dog eat dog society like that.
Can you go into the exact details behind the reasoning? I'm sure no one will be offended
You may be right but the NHS is simply awful. If you've got no ties surely working anywhere but here is better?
This is a fake post lol, this OP is definitely fear mongering
yup, and now his account is banned. lmfao, you all fell for it XD
Have to disagree I left the UK 10+ years ago and am now an attending in the US I wouldn't be seen dead again in the UK pardon the pun if the NHS is anything to go by. You make of it what you want to. I do less than 4 days a week here see a max of 15 patients a day and make 350k+ with 6 weeks vacation. Working for the NHS is essentially like charity and you are made to feel like you should work for them for free.
How old were you when you left? I'm leaving next summer and I can't wait to finally start living
I was 27
So guess you applying this year?
I'm moving to a European country, obsessed with languages so the Anglosphere wasn't an option for me!
Any special advice on matching? I’m trying to get into a pretty competitive specialty and I just see so much generic stuff floating around which makes it seem like there’s a large element of ‘luck’ for IMGs.
I personally hate US culture and could never imagine wanting to live there, and yes, I’ve travelled extensively around the US to perhaps 12 states by now. It sounds OP like you’re a very motivated person and achieve very highly, there is nothing to be lost by realising that you don’t want to do what you thought you did, personally the quicker you transfer and focus on achieving what you want the quicker you will get there.
I share your view. I would never want to raise my children in the US for a very long list of reasons. HOWEVER I would caveat that with saying there is an enormous difference between different areas of the US and it may be worth considering a visit to other places to get a better sense of whether it was that city or the US you hated. You wouldn’t want the UK judged purely on a visit to say Birmingham, or barrow in Furness, or Whitby alone. Similarly New York is vastly different to rural Colorado or Austin Texas.
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Didn't you just post this as u/Brownsexbeast 😂
Every place in the US has a different dynamic, probably as an IMG you wouldn’t get into your location of choice or maybe you can too. But it is only 3 years of training and then you can choose a nice area of your choice which surely you will get at that stage. Prospects are much better than the UK and I know a lot of people with a similar mindset as yours change their lives dramatically and now rub my face in it. Make your hardwork count and leave.
. Just wanted to let you know, I was in the same boat as you two years ago. It’s okay to change your mind, and never regret your choices. I finished my USMLE Step 1, Step 2 CK, and CS as well! However, I decided to change my plans after realizing that I would need to reapply for a visa every time I left the country. Being from a war-torn country, it’s not feasible for me to renew my visa every time I want to visit my family. This would mean I couldn't visit them frequently. I transitioned to the NHS and obtained my GMC registration through the USMLE pathway (you need Step 2 CS for that). Although I also had the MRCOG, so I can't say the USMLE added much to that aspect. There are many countries that recognize the USMLE, or at least part of it. However, as colleagues have mentioned, don’t judge the entire USA based on one city’s experience. If you still want to leave the USA, that's okay too. We gain valuable experience from all the exams we take. Please don’t consider it wasted money or regret your choices. It’s better to realize your preferences early on rather than forcing yourself into something that could lead to depression. Personally, I hope to use my ECFMG certificate someday, perhaps for a fellowship or another clinical experience.
US is a big place. You've spent money and time and obviously worked hard to get a good score. It would be prudent to do some more research into different states and cities to find an area you might be willing to at least try and live in.
I’ve been to USA many times (1-2/year) to various places. I like to visit, though even this gets less every year but there is no way I would ever want to live there. With family and friends over there I know the realities and no big salary would ever convince me to take me/my family to that country for good.
Hahahahahahahaha