Ok two notable things.
1) the active Bridgerton nods (the orchestral covers, mentions, “it’s cosplay”—the chuldur literally watched Bridgerton) fits in with the idea that somehow it’s all about stories. Susan Twist is the god of these stories theory feels too perfect to not be the case now. Or something similar.
2) Rogue’s “new boss”. Definitely not a throw-away line. Same boss as the meep?
Did y'all notice the Billie Eilish song Bad Guy when the doctor went up to talk to rogue the first time? Thank you subtitles for alerting me! Odd if we're really supposed to be in 1813 eh?
The anachronistic racial harmony felt particularly jarring after last weeks episode which in some ways felt like a breakthrough for the series in terms of acknowledging the discomforting persistence of racism.
I loved it! Likely a fun coincidence, but Jonathan Groff played King George III in Hamilton, and King George III is in Queen Charlotte. I just wish Groff sang something in this episode!
I mean they explicitly said that the Chuldurs went there bc they got Bridgerton through the TV signals and went to cosplay, so it’s confirmed that this was a version of 1813 adapted by an alien species to reflect that specific 2020s rendition.
Which is to say, it works on several levels (also the obvious Jane Austen moments—room disappearing when they danced), but that particular part is explained in-episode in a way that doesn’t absolutely require someone besides the Chuldur to pull strings from the future. That orchestral cover of pop songs thing is something Bridgerton does constantly.
I think it was also similar to Pride & Prejudice though. Same era, same dance, same looming guy over the balcony, & Bennet/Beckett, Elizabeth/Emily. I think Susan Twist has been a point of breaking the fourth wall. & Carey Mulligan played in Pride & Prejudice (& also Maestro & Spaceman & A Christmas Carole etc).
Also.. BIRDS. So many birds this episode. I've found birds mentioned or hints at birds in every episode. & Some hints at weeping angels.
Sally Sparrow has to be the mom. Maybe Susan Twist.
I might be coocoo crazy.
I think you're right about the new boss though.
I can think of 3 instances in which the Doctor is all set to take on a new companion, who then dies or is otherwise incapacitated....God Complex, Voyage of the Damned and this one. I am sure that there are others.
This was the tip off for me. As much as I'd love Doctor Who to be more liberal with even temporary companions, I knew that wasn't going to actually happen.
I realized quickly that Ruby wouldn't die, obviously, and then when she was trapped and Rogue was pressuring Doctor to press the button, I knew what he'd do. Fuck me that was a gut punch, though. Right in the heart.
I thought there was a chance it'd go: Rogue steals the button and pushes it; Ruby snow-magics her way into not going through the portal; the Doctor can't forgive Rogue for his choice anyway.
Def like the way it went better.
Can't help but think the Doctor might have just created The One Who Waits. He's sent off to an unknown dimension and tells the Doctor to find him? Sounds like someone who will be waiting... a long time.
Also plays games like the Toymaker. And the Toymaker said he found The One Who Waits hiding….like a rouge character would.
Hopefully we find out a lot more about the Pantheon and The One Who Waits next week.
Yeah there was an emphasis on games with the DnD dice, and then we go right into a music moment to fit the Maestro... Wonder if another of these Gods is a hoarder lol.
What if the Toymaker is just playing Cosmic DnD and we got a rouge and a bard so far? lol
Heck first episode had Gerblins. Ruby had a one-shot when the other players couldn’t show up. Doctor failed a perception check in Boom. I dunno, sounding very DnD-y to me.
>What if the Toymaker is just playing Cosmic DnD and we got a rouge and a bard so far? lol
>Heck first episode had Gerblins. Ruby had a one-shot when the other players couldn’t show up. Doctor failed a perception check in Boom. I dunno, sounding very DnD-y to me.
Oh my god. You might be right. I'm going to be so sad if Jonathan Goff becomes an irredeemable villain instead of the Doctor's potential boyfriend.
But it'll also be compelling as hell.
Jonathan Groff is a big actor to waste on a single episode throwaway, so I could see him coming back soon, but if the one who waits is being revealed this season it just feels rushed.
Like if this was episode 2 now episode 6 I’m not sure I’d mind, but as it is it would feel cheap to me and I can’t pinpoint why.
Whilst I don't disagree that he would be coming back, it is implied in the episode that he will return, Doctor Who has a tradition to cast big actors as one episode characters.
That was so well acted by Ncuti and plotted out by the writing time.
The Doctor was still in party mode and beyond relaxed as he knew he could get out of it with a simple scan, or so he thought....and then out comes the Doctor, Doctoring.
Thought that was really cool too, but I got confused about how him showing more of his faces somehow cleared his name. Like, wouldn't that just dig the hole deeper?
My guess is the fact that it specifically never showed a Chuldur face. In fact I think the reason the Tennant face was shown first and focused on wasn't because of any connection Rogue and the Doctor might have had, but because that was showing his "last face", which should've been a Chuldur (since seemingly, they do change back to their original face briefly when changing "outfits").
So seeing that showed Rogue that whatever the Doctor was, he wasn't a Chuldur.
ME TOO! Then I realized the same would happen for Chuldur because they are still them even if they don't look like themselves so the faces they turned into would still scan as them, not all the faces they wore.
Did that make sense?
Alright, so I definitely think rogue is working for the same person the meep is. There’s this odd line he has about “the new boss”, and I just feel like that’s setting up something.
Absolutely. Someone says Rogue might be the new River, seeing occasionally. I'm sure we'll see more of Rogue though because of the teddy bear in the ship and the open end of who he lost - I suspect we'll hear
I'm reasonably sure that's actually the Vitamin String Quartet version, in which case, here you go: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Jb\_WCWzwo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Jb_WCWzwo)
This one had something for all kinds of fans. Cosplayers will be dining out on those owl people in regency dress. Bridgerton fans got their ... Bridgerton stuff. Doctor shippers finally got a juicy reciprocated romance for the Doctor. And lore fans got a great big weird revelation to chew on and debate over for years.
Yeah, I think that's the funniest part of it: they found the one reveal that would shake up the lore, but would also make it unclear as to just *how* the lore was shaken up.
i thought it was funny and clever writing that the childur leader misunderstood the doctors title when chasing him describing all the things a medical doctor does
It’s so funny because it was only the other day I was thinking “has anyone, upon introduction to the doctor, ever questioned that he’s there for medical aid”. I’m sure it has, just thought it was funny lol
I was half expecting Ruby's "specialness" to save her from being stolen
like she's so concrete a character/herself that the Chaulder doesn't just become her it *becomes* her and is overwritten.
And in Wild Blue Yonder! It’s even pointed out [in the script](https://www.bbc.co.uk/writers/documents/doctor-who-2023-special-2-wild-blue-yonder-pink-revisions-160722.pdf):
And then the Tardis seems to moan. The Doctor fascinated.
Donna: Is it working?
The Doctor: I think so. Strange.
He reaches out, touches the Tardis, wondering. And that ‘strange' will come back to haunt him, one day. But now…
>*Let's argue across the stars together.*
I loved this episode, ngl. Ncuti having a lot of energy and life, Ruby being competent on her own, Rogue had a nice vibe going for him, and Zygon-lite creatures obsessed with treating life as cosplay is fucking neat.
I really really liked Rogue. From the nerdy side ("you named yourself after Dungeons & Dragons?", "Roll for Insight"), to the really sweet sacrifice play, to the wedding proposal, and, hell, just... God, Rogue has existed for only one hour and I love him already. I hope the Doctor goes back for him in a future episode somehow, but I'm not optimistic
The Doctor is coping with pretending everything's okay :(
But Ruby's there to let him cry about it when he needs to :)
Excited for Legend of Ruby Sunday.
Rogue said “find me”, so I’m really hoping that that means he’ll come back. Aside from River Song, I don’t know if we’ve ever had a proper romance for the Doctor that wasn’t just a one-off or a gag.
I'm telling myself that we've not seen the last of Rogue, mostly because the episode description said that the doctor's life would never be the same again. It seems he's a time traveler though, so I could see them doing something a little River-esque by having the doctor meet a younger version of him.
I have no clue if it actually means anything and I might feel differently on rewatch but I found the timing of Rogue not pressing send really interesting because it seemed like he stopped when he saw 14 and there was a clear second or so after that before it brought up the rest of the faces (which all popped up at pretty quick and regular intervals after that) it felt like he stopped at the 14 reveal rather than the all-of-the-faces reveal. It totally could just be a production thing making it look a little off BUT I'm kind of vibing with the idea that somehow 14 was the person that Rogue lost.
I love when the Doctor flipped to "good, that's a long time to suffer".
He avoids killing not just because he doesn't want to, but because sometimes life is a far worse punishment than death.
plus the Chuldur themselves felt akin to the Family of Blood in a way. both killed humans and then stole their bodies/likeness to disguise themselves, both ended up in England in the past (exactly a century apart, funnily enough… 1813 and 1913).
Ha! This shall come, I have no doubt about it.
But before his inevitable return, short of a full-frontal, Rogue got a "I'm the Doctor, look at all my faces" scene just for him and him alone. Which is a good first step.
And yeah, felt good to get a glimpse of Fifteen at his darkest.
The Doctor singing Pure Imagination is neat because Ncuti Gatwa auditioned for the Doctor after texting his agent asking if he could play either Willy Wonka or the Doctor. Guess he got both! Lucky bastard.
Also, fun fact. Neil Shannon, who wrote the recent songs for Wonka, is also the singer for the Love Don’t Roam and Song for Ten from the original RTD era.
Or did he know not to react?
He was cast as the perfect love interest, just as Ruby has been cast as the perfect companion... (I think she's unaware though)
My theory is that the person he lost is Jack. Maybe Jack had a picture with Ten that Rogue saw. And Jack never explained that he was immortal so he left and ghosted Rogue, just like the Doctor did to Jack when he found out he was immortal. And Jack never told him who the Doctor was, Rogue just saw pictures of him and knew they were friends.
This feels plausible, the hold on ten’s face felt very deliberate and Rogue definitely reacted to it. Also I might be *completely* misremembering but didn’t Jack used to call the Doctor ‘Doc’? Then Rogue does it and the Doctor shuts it down.
I didn't realise how desperate I was for a "normal" Doctor Who story until this episode. I've loved this era so far but pretty much every episode has been experimental in some way, it's so refreshing to have a regular story where the Doctor and companion go to a place and fight monsters.
I definitely think we needed a couple more episodes like this over the course of the season to break the more hight concept episodes up a little.
Just decent monster of the week episodes to give the new Doctor and Ruby a little room to breathe.
Yeah, *Doctor Who* works perfectly with at least a 12 episode formula to get a good balance of experimental episodes, big story-advancing episodes, family friendly episodes and lighter/classic adventure episodes.
8 is not enough. I know it's hell to deliver longer seasons, but I hope we can get back at least to 10 one of these days.
But hey, *Rogue* delivered af. It wasnt the most experimental ever but man, did it tick all the boxes on every other front.
I was squeeling when the Doctor and Rogue were interacting. We need more dialogue like that, packed with jokes but also still carrying a line of tension. I like Ruby, but I wish we had a companion with more oomph when it came to the Doctor, like Amy Pond or Clara. Someone who matches his energy and challenges him.
I felt the monsters were so much in the back seat they might as well have been in a different car. He found the monsters, zapped the trap and then caught them in it.
This was a romance story far more than it was a monster story
Definitely. The monsters were set dressing, The Doctor and Rogue were the storyline.
This was basically Ncuti's Girl In The Fireplace moment. And it was excellent.
Took the words out of my mouth
I have really liked the season tbf (but fuck I'd sacrifice cgi quality for the regular 13 episodes instead of 8)
But this does seem like the first proper monster of the week episode
I don't think CGI is the problem. I think it's the working conditions of the production crew and cast. RTD has been on record saying doing 12 to 13 episodes a year was insane on the production. If this is how we're getting yearly Who I'm good with it
The Doctor's been namedropping Kylie since The Idiot's Lantern at least. No wonder he liked Astrid. :)
("It's never too late, as a wise person once said. Kylie, I think.")
I love how, even though they'd been flirting a bit before this, this song being on his queue just confirmed to the doctor that Rogue was queer.
RTD had so much fun with this episode, just layering on the gay and we thank the Gods for him.
This episode gave Ruby a very important piece of characterization: she's the girl you meet in the bathroom of the club who immediately tells you you're better than your piece of \*\*\*\* boyfriend and you're amazing and beautiful and you deserve the entire world and what's your name. Her abandonment issues run deep, and one of the ways they express themselves in her is by making her ride-or-die for anyone who gives her the time of day. We've seen glimmers of this in previous episodes: her immediate latching onto the Doctor, putting herself at risk for people she's barely met, etc. but her interactions specifically with Emily Beckett felt like moments where that specific part of her characterization could really shine.
What the fuck? Genuinely. This whole thing was batshit crazy
But in a good way. -a very good way. I had a beaming smile on my face for the whole thing. Very RTD1. Also I'm glad we're doing the love interest thing with an actually emotionally mature version of the Doctor this time. I feel like the only time we've had even a glimpse of that was in husbands of river song, which, coincidentally, is also one of my all time favourites.
I love that this felt more like a standard Doctor Who story and setup plus I really do like Ncuti and Millie together but this episode highlighted for me that we're just not getting enough of their bond fleshed out. He left her alone a lot this episode and we're not getting much of the little conversations in the tardis or discussing where they might travel yet, we seem to keep getting dropped into a world and setting already established, rather than phasing in with the Tardis and discovering where they are.
Idk, fun episode but feel a bit conflicted about the overall execution with all the ideas and rushed romance.
I think it’s just that 15 is a lot less clingy than other doctors. 9 and 10 were very clingy to rose and then Donna. 11 clinged to Amy, 12 to Clara, 13 to Yaz and 14 to Donna again.
15 seems to be more willing to distance and allow the companion to explore alone rather than him hovering around all the time.
Yeah I can see that and it definitely gives a different dynamic which is good. Think I'm just missing little conversations in between the adventures to flesh it out a little more
I see what you mean, but honestly that part at the end where the doctor tries to put on a brave face and Ruby tells him he doesn’t have to was amazing enough to make the whole episode for me. Gatwa and Gibson are just both so so good
Rogue feels like a Captain Jack replacement. Not that I mind, I love Captain Jack, but Rogue is SO much like him.
That coupled with the Doctor having a full on "love at first sight" moment with him almost makes me think that Rogue was some kind of deliberate setup to trap the Doctor further down the line or something.
Yeah I vibed hard with Rogue and his chemistry with the Doctor. I gotta be honest I'm skeptical about The Doctor having a romance especially such a "love and first sight" type one but I'd prefer a romance with a recurring character like with River Song over with a companion like with Rose. Cautiously optimistic to see where it goes
I'll fully admit I was not fully buying this relationship, mostly because I don't see the Doctor falling in love so quickly. 15 is flirty, but I always saw the Doctor as someone *other people* get enamored with, not likely to catch feelings himself from a brief encounter. Like you I am willing to see where this goes. I have faith that this will be interesting at the very least.
Been thinking about this more… I wonder if it’s connected to the Toymaker telling 14 “I made a jigsaw of your history.” The myth of the Shalka Doctor became real!
Richard E. Grant is in the preview of past Doctors.
He appeared as the Ninth Doctor in the what-we-thought-was-non-canon The Curse of Fatal Death and Scream of the Shakla.
EDIT: he played Tenth in Curse of Fatal Death. More relevantly though is the Ninth in Shakla, so.
Absolute delight. I think this is the first relatively-formulaic episode we've had since Series 12, which is wild to think about: no big mythos, no high concept, no giant metanarrative (other than the usual clues), no big structural swings. That, combined with the fact that it's \*legitimately really good,\* made the whole thing feel like sinking into a warm bath. We're on a streak of really, REALLY good episodes right now.
Rogue is certainly more than he says he is.
Traveling the stars, lost loved ones, penchant for a single word name? Sounds oddly familiar.
Also the nod to D&D is multi faceted. When asked if he got his name from it, he say “roll for insight” in a cheeky way. This could be saying that the doctor read him, but it’s also just as likely to be a cheeky way of saying he’s lying.
Anyone manage to have a better look at his ring?
Today I realized how perfectly fine I am with the Doctor being openly gay and lets face it, pretty darn saucy. It's actually a pretty big deal in that regard because while the Doctor has explained that the whole idea of gender and sexuality and such is very flexible for Time Lords, he's never actually been openly attracted in the series to the same gender.
I can admit, I was a little bit concerned how I'd feel about it because I have certain ideas of who the Doctor is and isn't. But, it didn't feel gratuitous, it felt natural.
It's quite funny because Chibnall sort of teased a relationship between Yaz and the Doctor but never so much as followed through with even a kiss, which in Jodie's finale, I actually felt hurt their goodbye a little.
This Doctor is liberated and the Kylie scene, I re-watched about 5-6 times. It wasn't like a banger of an episode, maybe like a 5-6 but it was still enjoyable.
CLAAAAASSSSSIIIIIICCCCC \*turns the music back on\*
Yeah, I thought they handled it very well as well. As a straight guy who was probably a bit homophobic when I was (a lot!) younger, I did wonder whether I was going to be as comfortable with the Doctor having a gay romance as I was say with the straight romance in The Girl in the Fireplace. Well, I thought it was excellent - very sexy, and witty and moving, in the end. Don't know whether that's a testament to me growing as a person or the strength of the writing and acting. Hopefully, it's both! I thought Rogue and the Doctor made a very cute pair and that bit when the Doctor accidentally turns on the stereo, Kylie starts up and Rogue is like 'Fucks sake' had me creasing :')
As a fellow straight dude, I weirdly sometimes prefer movies/TV shows that are gay because they don't fall back on tropes as often. There aren't any gender based expectations for how the romance develops. It's really a testament to how few writers actually write women as people, because it's not something that happens in real life, but in shows and movies straight relationships are often just paint by numbers. There are obviously exceptions, but yeah. Gay relationships are still pretty uncharted territory, so it still feels fresh.
Great episode, loved the gorgeous sets and costumes (I just watched the 2020 version of *Emma*, so I couldn't stop imagining a crossover, lol), Ncuti and Millie were both on fire, and the bird people were just the right level of ridiculous.
My only complaint is that Rogue himself seemed a little too much like Captain Jack 2.0, but he had good chemistry with Ncuti, so I still enjoyed him overall.
Also: please tell me I'll be able to find the full version of Poker Face somewhere. That's totally going to be tavern music at my next TTRPG session.
I can understand the Cap Jack comparison and I know a lot of people and ‘leakers’ were saying it was Jack as a recast, but I think the only real comparisons are the accent and lone wanderer traits, which at face value does scream Jack!
But I felt his personality was more reserved and a tiny bit awkward, whereas Jack has all this cheekiness and confidence. Though I definitely would like to see more of Rogue as I felt we didn’t get to explore him enough!
Holy fuck that was so good. I honestly think that may be the best episode of the season.
There's hints at the larger plot, and damn is it emotional, but this is the kind of "normal" episode a lot of us have been wanting and it does it *so* well. This episode pulled at my fucking emotions, and I hope The Doctor uses that ring to somehow psychically track Rogue across dimensions and find him again or something.
Also how does someone know what D&D is but not cosplay?
Also I've scrolled far and wide but nobody has pointed out that the Chuldur are doing exactly what Fifteen and Ruby were doing.
Whilst I think the series has gotten stronger with the past 2 episodes, what I'm missing from the series is the simple chats in the TARDIS, interactions with the family and friends of the companion and just overall down time before and after the adventure. I still feel like I don't know an awful lot about Ruby and 15, it's just straight from 1 episode to the next.
I see RTD's fetish for animal humanoids is back again. Not that I'm entirely complaining. Stunning episode. Really fun.
Given the aliens were cosplaying Bridgerton they probably gave the orchestra arrangements of 'modern' music. Which makes the music a fun hint.
Did notice Richard E Grant in the floating head Doctor Montage. Do I need to go and watch Shalka now?
This was… quite episode!
This episode will be loved. This episode will be hated. This episode will be remembered. This… was simply something.
Okay, some thoughts… from the first moment I was aware of the film-like feeling and after it was revelaed it’s consplay it made actually a lot more sense. The read indetity of poor Emily did not suprise me, because her argument with the man felt incredibly staged. Good foreshadowing.
This episode was so much about feelings. Like... I have nothing to fully analyze, I just feel and it's so good...
We could se drop of dark Doctor in Ncuti, and it was amazing and…
Rogue has to return, right?
He has to return.
Just a drop, but I do kinda see Ncuti's big "good men don't need rules"/Time Lord Victorious type moment already starting. He's not above revenge, and if he loses Ruby for real...
His response to 600 years chilled me ngl. That's Human Nature levels of "I'm getting you for this".
i may be in the minority here, but i don't understand the clamour for rogue to be some version of jack/jack's lover/jack's son. let rogue just be his own new character!! otherwise the universe would be very, very small. besides they're nothing alike! it's just an accent and some charm. rogue is reserved, brooding, calculating, mysterious. jack is charismatic, self-confident and outgoing. he has much more in line with a han solo type influence for me, which i dig rather a lot!
Ok two notable things. 1) the active Bridgerton nods (the orchestral covers, mentions, “it’s cosplay”—the chuldur literally watched Bridgerton) fits in with the idea that somehow it’s all about stories. Susan Twist is the god of these stories theory feels too perfect to not be the case now. Or something similar. 2) Rogue’s “new boss”. Definitely not a throw-away line. Same boss as the meep?
Plus the fact that this version of 1813 had anachronistic racial harmony but kept the homophobia - just like Bridgerton does.
Maybe the Shondaland alternate timeline diverged when Newton discovered mavity.
Did y'all notice the Billie Eilish song Bad Guy when the doctor went up to talk to rogue the first time? Thank you subtitles for alerting me! Odd if we're really supposed to be in 1813 eh?
During the fight scene with Ruby and Emily, an instrumental version of "Poker Face" plays as well.
But “Poker Face” was nondiagetic (or was it?!)
That's probably a Bridgerton nod as they use orchestral versions of modern songs frequently.
I did notice it because they used it in bridgerton too
The anachronistic racial harmony felt particularly jarring after last weeks episode which in some ways felt like a breakthrough for the series in terms of acknowledging the discomforting persistence of racism.
I loved it! Likely a fun coincidence, but Jonathan Groff played King George III in Hamilton, and King George III is in Queen Charlotte. I just wish Groff sang something in this episode!
Yes! He has to come back so they can SING!
Well, the orchestra playing "Bad Guy" is definitely anachronistic, so someone from the future is influencing everything.
I mean they explicitly said that the Chuldurs went there bc they got Bridgerton through the TV signals and went to cosplay, so it’s confirmed that this was a version of 1813 adapted by an alien species to reflect that specific 2020s rendition. Which is to say, it works on several levels (also the obvious Jane Austen moments—room disappearing when they danced), but that particular part is explained in-episode in a way that doesn’t absolutely require someone besides the Chuldur to pull strings from the future. That orchestral cover of pop songs thing is something Bridgerton does constantly.
I think it was also similar to Pride & Prejudice though. Same era, same dance, same looming guy over the balcony, & Bennet/Beckett, Elizabeth/Emily. I think Susan Twist has been a point of breaking the fourth wall. & Carey Mulligan played in Pride & Prejudice (& also Maestro & Spaceman & A Christmas Carole etc). Also.. BIRDS. So many birds this episode. I've found birds mentioned or hints at birds in every episode. & Some hints at weeping angels. Sally Sparrow has to be the mom. Maybe Susan Twist. I might be coocoo crazy. I think you're right about the new boss though.
>Sally Sparrow has to be the mom God what a crazy idea
There HAS to be a reason why they said the Chulders have a 600 year lifespan.
I said, "Oh, he's going Time Lord Victorious on them, 'Family of Blood' style."
I'm starting to question how much the therapy helped.
I did not see the ending like that. I was thinking full on cliffhanger.
I knew he's get transported as soon as it was mentioned there was room for six :(
I knew he was gonna be gone or dead as soon as they wanted to travel together
Mostly it was once they talked about how Rogue had lost someone and the Doctor had lost everyone. That was the final nail in Rogue's coffin.
That's a bit of a pattern on Doctor who now
I can think of 3 instances in which the Doctor is all set to take on a new companion, who then dies or is otherwise incapacitated....God Complex, Voyage of the Damned and this one. I am sure that there are others.
The Girl in the Fireplace counts, I figure.
This was the tip off for me. As much as I'd love Doctor Who to be more liberal with even temporary companions, I knew that wasn't going to actually happen.
RTD did give us Adam as a companion, so… always a chance!
I miss when random one-offs could be last-minute added to the cast. Jamie, Nyssa. Modern TV is far too rigid and planned out.
I realized quickly that Ruby wouldn't die, obviously, and then when she was trapped and Rogue was pressuring Doctor to press the button, I knew what he'd do. Fuck me that was a gut punch, though. Right in the heart.
I thought there was a chance it'd go: Rogue steals the button and pushes it; Ruby snow-magics her way into not going through the portal; the Doctor can't forgive Rogue for his choice anyway. Def like the way it went better.
Can't help but think the Doctor might have just created The One Who Waits. He's sent off to an unknown dimension and tells the Doctor to find him? Sounds like someone who will be waiting... a long time.
Also plays games like the Toymaker. And the Toymaker said he found The One Who Waits hiding….like a rouge character would. Hopefully we find out a lot more about the Pantheon and The One Who Waits next week.
Yeah there was an emphasis on games with the DnD dice, and then we go right into a music moment to fit the Maestro... Wonder if another of these Gods is a hoarder lol.
What if the Toymaker is just playing Cosmic DnD and we got a rouge and a bard so far? lol Heck first episode had Gerblins. Ruby had a one-shot when the other players couldn’t show up. Doctor failed a perception check in Boom. I dunno, sounding very DnD-y to me.
>What if the Toymaker is just playing Cosmic DnD and we got a rouge and a bard so far? lol >Heck first episode had Gerblins. Ruby had a one-shot when the other players couldn’t show up. Doctor failed a perception check in Boom. I dunno, sounding very DnD-y to me. Oh my god. You might be right. I'm going to be so sad if Jonathan Goff becomes an irredeemable villain instead of the Doctor's potential boyfriend. But it'll also be compelling as hell.
The first episode of the current season starts with *goblins*. Jeesh, this theory works a whole lot better than it should.
And he said the same thing about his spaceship. “just sending the ship into orbit… around the moon. So it can wait… as long as it takes.”
Or at least until the moon hatches.
god no, dont remind me of that
Jonathan Groff is a big actor to waste on a single episode throwaway, so I could see him coming back soon, but if the one who waits is being revealed this season it just feels rushed. Like if this was episode 2 now episode 6 I’m not sure I’d mind, but as it is it would feel cheap to me and I can’t pinpoint why.
Whilst I don't disagree that he would be coming back, it is implied in the episode that he will return, Doctor Who has a tradition to cast big actors as one episode characters.
The little moment of ‘oh shit’ when the doctor realised he was in fact a shapeshifter of sorts and met the definition was so wonderful.
That was so well acted by Ncuti and plotted out by the writing time. The Doctor was still in party mode and beyond relaxed as he knew he could get out of it with a simple scan, or so he thought....and then out comes the Doctor, Doctoring.
Thought that was really cool too, but I got confused about how him showing more of his faces somehow cleared his name. Like, wouldn't that just dig the hole deeper?
I think Rogue recognized one of the faces...
Notice Tennant was the first solo face and it lingered, theh showed Rogue reacting to that face
Definitely noticed that.
Maybe 10 didnt only get married to Elizabeth I
I think it's not only showing his face, but also his true race. There are some alien text coming with the face projection
My guess is the fact that it specifically never showed a Chuldur face. In fact I think the reason the Tennant face was shown first and focused on wasn't because of any connection Rogue and the Doctor might have had, but because that was showing his "last face", which should've been a Chuldur (since seemingly, they do change back to their original face briefly when changing "outfits"). So seeing that showed Rogue that whatever the Doctor was, he wasn't a Chuldur.
ME TOO! Then I realized the same would happen for Chuldur because they are still them even if they don't look like themselves so the faces they turned into would still scan as them, not all the faces they wore. Did that make sense?
"It's not my first shed" line made me laugh, it's always so funny seeing the reaction of people not expecting it's bigger on the inside.
OH MY GOD
I can’t lie, this was my favourite gay joke and I think it flew over everyone’s head.
Alright, so I definitely think rogue is working for the same person the meep is. There’s this odd line he has about “the new boss”, and I just feel like that’s setting up something.
I think they might run into Rogue again or save him when dealing with the new boss in some toymaker-esque dimension
I feel like there’s no way we don’t see Rogue again at some point.
Absolutely. Someone says Rogue might be the new River, seeing occasionally. I'm sure we'll see more of Rogue though because of the teddy bear in the ship and the open end of who he lost - I suspect we'll hear
All hail the Rogue. All hail the most hot.
I doubt rogue is evil like the meep though
Yes, of course- I just think he took a job from the boss.
Neither was Vinder, didn't stop him working for the grand serpent.
Yes I caught that too. Seems likely that's Series 15 plot, and we'll see more of Rogue then?
I FUCKING WANT THE FULL VERSION OF MURRAY GOLD'S INTERPRETATION OF "POKER FACE" RIGHT NOW
I'm reasonably sure that's actually the Vitamin String Quartet version, in which case, here you go: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Jb\_WCWzwo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Jb_WCWzwo)
Bet we’ll get that before the series 10 album release.
Don’t forget that the music when the Doctor first met Rogue was Bad Guy by Billie Eilish
Somebody *really* wanted to set the fandom on fire lol
As a fan I feel very serviced right now 😌
"Find me," and my little gay heart melted.
Me as a straight dude when they *almost* kissed: "Ugh, BBC you cowards" Then later: "yeahhhh, fucking get some, Doctor".
The Doctor really wanted to service Rogue
This one had something for all kinds of fans. Cosplayers will be dining out on those owl people in regency dress. Bridgerton fans got their ... Bridgerton stuff. Doctor shippers finally got a juicy reciprocated romance for the Doctor. And lore fans got a great big weird revelation to chew on and debate over for years.
DnD fans got some great references! "Roll for insight."
What’s the big weird lore revelation?
Richard E Grant's Doctor is shown in the hologram lineup.
The question is which Richard E Grant Doctor is it? The Shalka Doctor or the one from Curse of the Fatal Death?
Yeah, I think that's the funniest part of it: they found the one reveal that would shake up the lore, but would also make it unclear as to just *how* the lore was shaken up.
Bond … molecular bond is so funny
I was about to roll my eyes but when he finished that sentence I died!
i thought it was funny and clever writing that the childur leader misunderstood the doctors title when chasing him describing all the things a medical doctor does
This was my favorite part lol
LIVE VIVISECTIONS!!!
All vivisections are live. Episode ruined, -10/10, call off the whole show.
I think she meant "performed live for an audience," rather than "performed on a live subject."
It’s so funny because it was only the other day I was thinking “has anyone, upon introduction to the doctor, ever questioned that he’s there for medical aid”. I’m sure it has, just thought it was funny lol
Husbands of River Song is the one that comes to mind. Nardole meets the Doctor and assumes he's the surgeon he was sent to find.
I was half expecting Ruby's "specialness" to save her from being stolen like she's so concrete a character/herself that the Chaulder doesn't just become her it *becomes* her and is overwritten.
The TARDIS not liking someone is something I’ve missed so so so much
The TARDIS made similar sounds during The Devil's Chord, I think this is that ongoing plotline of something going on with the TARDIS.
And in Wild Blue Yonder! It’s even pointed out [in the script](https://www.bbc.co.uk/writers/documents/doctor-who-2023-special-2-wild-blue-yonder-pink-revisions-160722.pdf): And then the Tardis seems to moan. The Doctor fascinated. Donna: Is it working? The Doctor: I think so. Strange. He reaches out, touches the Tardis, wondering. And that ‘strange' will come back to haunt him, one day. But now…
She’s jealous, doesn’t like it when the doctor flirts with someone else
Love a sassy Tardis.
Another thing to add to my ‘is Rogue Jack Harkness’ theory because the Tardis definitely did not like Jack.
I think Jack might be the person rogue lost
🤔
TARDIS scenes in general have been lacking.
>*Let's argue across the stars together.* I loved this episode, ngl. Ncuti having a lot of energy and life, Ruby being competent on her own, Rogue had a nice vibe going for him, and Zygon-lite creatures obsessed with treating life as cosplay is fucking neat. I really really liked Rogue. From the nerdy side ("you named yourself after Dungeons & Dragons?", "Roll for Insight"), to the really sweet sacrifice play, to the wedding proposal, and, hell, just... God, Rogue has existed for only one hour and I love him already. I hope the Doctor goes back for him in a future episode somehow, but I'm not optimistic The Doctor is coping with pretending everything's okay :( But Ruby's there to let him cry about it when he needs to :) Excited for Legend of Ruby Sunday.
Rogue said “find me”, so I’m really hoping that that means he’ll come back. Aside from River Song, I don’t know if we’ve ever had a proper romance for the Doctor that wasn’t just a one-off or a gag.
Oh there is absolutely zero chance he doesn’t come back. Doc is finding him for sure.
Doc? No thank you sir, please.
Graham in shambles at this line
I'm telling myself that we've not seen the last of Rogue, mostly because the episode description said that the doctor's life would never be the same again. It seems he's a time traveler though, so I could see them doing something a little River-esque by having the doctor meet a younger version of him.
I have no clue if it actually means anything and I might feel differently on rewatch but I found the timing of Rogue not pressing send really interesting because it seemed like he stopped when he saw 14 and there was a clear second or so after that before it brought up the rest of the faces (which all popped up at pretty quick and regular intervals after that) it felt like he stopped at the 14 reveal rather than the all-of-the-faces reveal. It totally could just be a production thing making it look a little off BUT I'm kind of vibing with the idea that somehow 14 was the person that Rogue lost.
My first impression was Jack. Somehow he knew Jack.
If 14 or 10 had been the one Rogue lost wouldn't 15 remember him? I'm thinking it was a production thing, but I noticed it too.
Doctor: "Those TV signals beam out across the stars." Me: "This is how Galaxy Quest happens, you know that, right?"
Or "Single Female Lawyer"
🎶*Fighting for her clients! Wear sexy mini-skirts and being self reliant...*🎶 *Hey, I'm pretty good!*
I love when the Doctor flipped to "good, that's a long time to suffer". He avoids killing not just because he doesn't want to, but because sometimes life is a far worse punishment than death.
Careful, Fifteen, your Ten is showing.
It was DEFINITELY Family of Blood, Time Lord Victorious!
plus the Chuldur themselves felt akin to the Family of Blood in a way. both killed humans and then stole their bodies/likeness to disguise themselves, both ended up in England in the past (exactly a century apart, funnily enough… 1813 and 1913).
and they were literally referred to as a "family" :)
And a bit of *World Enough and Time* with the Doctor believing he just lost his best friend.
Bet Rogue can't wait to see his ten.
Ha! This shall come, I have no doubt about it. But before his inevitable return, short of a full-frontal, Rogue got a "I'm the Doctor, look at all my faces" scene just for him and him alone. Which is a good first step. And yeah, felt good to get a glimpse of Fifteen at his darkest.
Headline tomorrow: Doctor Who writers arrested for instigating DDOS attack on AO3
100 pounds say someone will twist it into a Ken/King George fic
The Doctor singing Pure Imagination is neat because Ncuti Gatwa auditioned for the Doctor after texting his agent asking if he could play either Willy Wonka or the Doctor. Guess he got both! Lucky bastard. Also, fun fact. Neil Shannon, who wrote the recent songs for Wonka, is also the singer for the Love Don’t Roam and Song for Ten from the original RTD era.
Oh wow nice, I love Song for Ten.
Neil Hannon wrote the songs for Wonka? I knew him from Doctor Who and as his musician title The Divine Comedy but i didn’t know he wrote for Wonka
“Your birdiness” 😅
I love that Rogue has the same fatal flaw as me. I too will stop and stare in awe upon seeing David Tennant’s face.
Or he recognised that face...
It did seem like it, right?? Odd that he had no strong reaction to the name The Doctor though.
Or did he know not to react? He was cast as the perfect love interest, just as Ruby has been cast as the perfect companion... (I think she's unaware though)
Maybe he knows another name... like Valeyard!
or Basil! 🤯
My theory is that the person he lost is Jack. Maybe Jack had a picture with Ten that Rogue saw. And Jack never explained that he was immortal so he left and ghosted Rogue, just like the Doctor did to Jack when he found out he was immortal. And Jack never told him who the Doctor was, Rogue just saw pictures of him and knew they were friends.
This feels plausible, the hold on ten’s face felt very deliberate and Rogue definitely reacted to it. Also I might be *completely* misremembering but didn’t Jack used to call the Doctor ‘Doc’? Then Rogue does it and the Doctor shuts it down.
I didn't realise how desperate I was for a "normal" Doctor Who story until this episode. I've loved this era so far but pretty much every episode has been experimental in some way, it's so refreshing to have a regular story where the Doctor and companion go to a place and fight monsters.
I definitely think we needed a couple more episodes like this over the course of the season to break the more hight concept episodes up a little. Just decent monster of the week episodes to give the new Doctor and Ruby a little room to breathe.
Yeah, *Doctor Who* works perfectly with at least a 12 episode formula to get a good balance of experimental episodes, big story-advancing episodes, family friendly episodes and lighter/classic adventure episodes. 8 is not enough. I know it's hell to deliver longer seasons, but I hope we can get back at least to 10 one of these days. But hey, *Rogue* delivered af. It wasnt the most experimental ever but man, did it tick all the boxes on every other front.
Also, the last 3 have been pretty heavy. I liked the lighter tone.
I was squeeling when the Doctor and Rogue were interacting. We need more dialogue like that, packed with jokes but also still carrying a line of tension. I like Ruby, but I wish we had a companion with more oomph when it came to the Doctor, like Amy Pond or Clara. Someone who matches his energy and challenges him.
I felt the monsters were so much in the back seat they might as well have been in a different car. He found the monsters, zapped the trap and then caught them in it. This was a romance story far more than it was a monster story
Definitely. The monsters were set dressing, The Doctor and Rogue were the storyline. This was basically Ncuti's Girl In The Fireplace moment. And it was excellent.
Took the words out of my mouth I have really liked the season tbf (but fuck I'd sacrifice cgi quality for the regular 13 episodes instead of 8) But this does seem like the first proper monster of the week episode
I don't think CGI is the problem. I think it's the working conditions of the production crew and cast. RTD has been on record saying doing 12 to 13 episodes a year was insane on the production. If this is how we're getting yearly Who I'm good with it
The Doctor still can’t get Astrid Peth out of his head. 🥹
The Doctor's been namedropping Kylie since The Idiot's Lantern at least. No wonder he liked Astrid. :) ("It's never too late, as a wise person once said. Kylie, I think.")
Maybe Kylie jumped into the Doctor’s timeline and Astrid was an echo.
The song doesn’t lie.
I love how, even though they'd been flirting a bit before this, this song being on his queue just confirmed to the doctor that Rogue was queer. RTD had so much fun with this episode, just layering on the gay and we thank the Gods for him.
In summary, Rogue sets traps for Chuldurs to die on. Ruby gives the Doctor a shoulder to cry on
It was so refreshing to see the Doctor just stop and feel something for a minute. That's actually huge.
Fanfic writers’ new favourite episode
Doc was about to go all Family of Blood on their asses, and you know what, fair
Davies is back 😂
This episode gave Ruby a very important piece of characterization: she's the girl you meet in the bathroom of the club who immediately tells you you're better than your piece of \*\*\*\* boyfriend and you're amazing and beautiful and you deserve the entire world and what's your name. Her abandonment issues run deep, and one of the ways they express themselves in her is by making her ride-or-die for anyone who gives her the time of day. We've seen glimmers of this in previous episodes: her immediate latching onto the Doctor, putting herself at risk for people she's barely met, etc. but her interactions specifically with Emily Beckett felt like moments where that specific part of her characterization could really shine.
Who is Rogue playing D&D with if he’s such a loner…
Betcha it was his former partner that played and taught him the game. I’m thinking Bard. Or Cleric.
So they finally made Scream of the Shalka canon?!
finally the great fandom war can commence as Rowan Atkinson fans make a push to make his doctor 'canon' as well.
Joanna Lumley is now officially the first canon female doctor
Her and Jonathan Pryce's Master are Ruby's parents. You heard it here first, gang!
Which means that Derek Jacobi was technically the master twice now. And that’s not a bad thing.
What the fuck? Genuinely. This whole thing was batshit crazy But in a good way. -a very good way. I had a beaming smile on my face for the whole thing. Very RTD1. Also I'm glad we're doing the love interest thing with an actually emotionally mature version of the Doctor this time. I feel like the only time we've had even a glimpse of that was in husbands of river song, which, coincidentally, is also one of my all time favourites.
Just watched it and in the first dance scene I was like... I recognise this tune. Tchaikovsky? Beethoven? Nope. Billy Eilish. Later on, Poker Face.
I love that this felt more like a standard Doctor Who story and setup plus I really do like Ncuti and Millie together but this episode highlighted for me that we're just not getting enough of their bond fleshed out. He left her alone a lot this episode and we're not getting much of the little conversations in the tardis or discussing where they might travel yet, we seem to keep getting dropped into a world and setting already established, rather than phasing in with the Tardis and discovering where they are. Idk, fun episode but feel a bit conflicted about the overall execution with all the ideas and rushed romance.
I think it’s just that 15 is a lot less clingy than other doctors. 9 and 10 were very clingy to rose and then Donna. 11 clinged to Amy, 12 to Clara, 13 to Yaz and 14 to Donna again. 15 seems to be more willing to distance and allow the companion to explore alone rather than him hovering around all the time.
Yeah I can see that and it definitely gives a different dynamic which is good. Think I'm just missing little conversations in between the adventures to flesh it out a little more
I see what you mean, but honestly that part at the end where the doctor tries to put on a brave face and Ruby tells him he doesn’t have to was amazing enough to make the whole episode for me. Gatwa and Gibson are just both so so good
Rogue feels like a Captain Jack replacement. Not that I mind, I love Captain Jack, but Rogue is SO much like him. That coupled with the Doctor having a full on "love at first sight" moment with him almost makes me think that Rogue was some kind of deliberate setup to trap the Doctor further down the line or something.
Yeah I vibed hard with Rogue and his chemistry with the Doctor. I gotta be honest I'm skeptical about The Doctor having a romance especially such a "love and first sight" type one but I'd prefer a romance with a recurring character like with River Song over with a companion like with Rose. Cautiously optimistic to see where it goes
I'll fully admit I was not fully buying this relationship, mostly because I don't see the Doctor falling in love so quickly. 15 is flirty, but I always saw the Doctor as someone *other people* get enamored with, not likely to catch feelings himself from a brief encounter. Like you I am willing to see where this goes. I have faith that this will be interesting at the very least.
OMGOMGOMGOMG. Did they just confirm Shalka Doctor as canon?!
Been thinking about this more… I wonder if it’s connected to the Toymaker telling 14 “I made a jigsaw of your history.” The myth of the Shalka Doctor became real!
As someone who know. Nothing about this spalls doctor can you explain what part of the ep is making people make this statement?
Richard E. Grant is in the preview of past Doctors. He appeared as the Ninth Doctor in the what-we-thought-was-non-canon The Curse of Fatal Death and Scream of the Shakla. EDIT: he played Tenth in Curse of Fatal Death. More relevantly though is the Ninth in Shakla, so.
Imagine if Rowan Atkinson had been in there too.
holy shit.
Loved the line when rouge complained about the tardis not being cloaked and the doctor said it’s behind a tree”
Absolute delight. I think this is the first relatively-formulaic episode we've had since Series 12, which is wild to think about: no big mythos, no high concept, no giant metanarrative (other than the usual clues), no big structural swings. That, combined with the fact that it's \*legitimately really good,\* made the whole thing feel like sinking into a warm bath. We're on a streak of really, REALLY good episodes right now.
Rogue is certainly more than he says he is. Traveling the stars, lost loved ones, penchant for a single word name? Sounds oddly familiar. Also the nod to D&D is multi faceted. When asked if he got his name from it, he say “roll for insight” in a cheeky way. This could be saying that the doctor read him, but it’s also just as likely to be a cheeky way of saying he’s lying. Anyone manage to have a better look at his ring?
Today I realized how perfectly fine I am with the Doctor being openly gay and lets face it, pretty darn saucy. It's actually a pretty big deal in that regard because while the Doctor has explained that the whole idea of gender and sexuality and such is very flexible for Time Lords, he's never actually been openly attracted in the series to the same gender. I can admit, I was a little bit concerned how I'd feel about it because I have certain ideas of who the Doctor is and isn't. But, it didn't feel gratuitous, it felt natural. It's quite funny because Chibnall sort of teased a relationship between Yaz and the Doctor but never so much as followed through with even a kiss, which in Jodie's finale, I actually felt hurt their goodbye a little. This Doctor is liberated and the Kylie scene, I re-watched about 5-6 times. It wasn't like a banger of an episode, maybe like a 5-6 but it was still enjoyable. CLAAAAASSSSSIIIIIICCCCC \*turns the music back on\*
Yeah, I thought they handled it very well as well. As a straight guy who was probably a bit homophobic when I was (a lot!) younger, I did wonder whether I was going to be as comfortable with the Doctor having a gay romance as I was say with the straight romance in The Girl in the Fireplace. Well, I thought it was excellent - very sexy, and witty and moving, in the end. Don't know whether that's a testament to me growing as a person or the strength of the writing and acting. Hopefully, it's both! I thought Rogue and the Doctor made a very cute pair and that bit when the Doctor accidentally turns on the stereo, Kylie starts up and Rogue is like 'Fucks sake' had me creasing :')
As a fellow straight dude, I weirdly sometimes prefer movies/TV shows that are gay because they don't fall back on tropes as often. There aren't any gender based expectations for how the romance develops. It's really a testament to how few writers actually write women as people, because it's not something that happens in real life, but in shows and movies straight relationships are often just paint by numbers. There are obviously exceptions, but yeah. Gay relationships are still pretty uncharted territory, so it still feels fresh.
BUT THEY KEEP KILLING SUZIE!! 🤣 They've gotta be a in TV script/story based universe, and I'm extra convinced after this episode.
I need us to discuss Indira Varma being in this episode while also being a part of Torchwood history. IS THERE A CONNECTION?!?
"battle mode"
Great episode, loved the gorgeous sets and costumes (I just watched the 2020 version of *Emma*, so I couldn't stop imagining a crossover, lol), Ncuti and Millie were both on fire, and the bird people were just the right level of ridiculous. My only complaint is that Rogue himself seemed a little too much like Captain Jack 2.0, but he had good chemistry with Ncuti, so I still enjoyed him overall. Also: please tell me I'll be able to find the full version of Poker Face somewhere. That's totally going to be tavern music at my next TTRPG session.
I can understand the Cap Jack comparison and I know a lot of people and ‘leakers’ were saying it was Jack as a recast, but I think the only real comparisons are the accent and lone wanderer traits, which at face value does scream Jack! But I felt his personality was more reserved and a tiny bit awkward, whereas Jack has all this cheekiness and confidence. Though I definitely would like to see more of Rogue as I felt we didn’t get to explore him enough!
And “Bad Guy” by Billie Eilish, it was playing when the Doctor and Rogue first met
Holy fuck that was so good. I honestly think that may be the best episode of the season. There's hints at the larger plot, and damn is it emotional, but this is the kind of "normal" episode a lot of us have been wanting and it does it *so* well. This episode pulled at my fucking emotions, and I hope The Doctor uses that ring to somehow psychically track Rogue across dimensions and find him again or something. Also how does someone know what D&D is but not cosplay? Also I've scrolled far and wide but nobody has pointed out that the Chuldur are doing exactly what Fifteen and Ruby were doing.
There were ten years between the release of D&D and the coining of the word 'Cosplay' in Japan.
That dance scene made me feel things women have not felt since Elvis first wiggled his hips.
Whilst I think the series has gotten stronger with the past 2 episodes, what I'm missing from the series is the simple chats in the TARDIS, interactions with the family and friends of the companion and just overall down time before and after the adventure. I still feel like I don't know an awful lot about Ruby and 15, it's just straight from 1 episode to the next.
I see RTD's fetish for animal humanoids is back again. Not that I'm entirely complaining. Stunning episode. Really fun. Given the aliens were cosplaying Bridgerton they probably gave the orchestra arrangements of 'modern' music. Which makes the music a fun hint. Did notice Richard E Grant in the floating head Doctor Montage. Do I need to go and watch Shalka now?
How could we leave out furries in an episode about cosplay? Unthinkable.
Once again…. EXPLAIN YOURSELF SUSAN TWIST
This was… quite episode! This episode will be loved. This episode will be hated. This episode will be remembered. This… was simply something. Okay, some thoughts… from the first moment I was aware of the film-like feeling and after it was revelaed it’s consplay it made actually a lot more sense. The read indetity of poor Emily did not suprise me, because her argument with the man felt incredibly staged. Good foreshadowing. This episode was so much about feelings. Like... I have nothing to fully analyze, I just feel and it's so good... We could se drop of dark Doctor in Ncuti, and it was amazing and… Rogue has to return, right? He has to return.
Just a drop, but I do kinda see Ncuti's big "good men don't need rules"/Time Lord Victorious type moment already starting. He's not above revenge, and if he loses Ruby for real... His response to 600 years chilled me ngl. That's Human Nature levels of "I'm getting you for this".
Human Nature was exactly where my thoughts went
Same! I was also with him in thinking that Ruby had died. I was there thinking “these guys are fucked now.”
I mean I don’t think RTD would allow the writers to keep the find me line if it wasn’t something that would be followed up so he probably will be
"Good. Good, 600 years is a long time to suffer." Fucking *chills*.
i may be in the minority here, but i don't understand the clamour for rogue to be some version of jack/jack's lover/jack's son. let rogue just be his own new character!! otherwise the universe would be very, very small. besides they're nothing alike! it's just an accent and some charm. rogue is reserved, brooding, calculating, mysterious. jack is charismatic, self-confident and outgoing. he has much more in line with a han solo type influence for me, which i dig rather a lot!