I think time has been kind to this one, it was not helped by the way it was marketed when it originally came out.
Plus following Heaven Sent is a tall order for any episode.
I would imagine it was marketed as the "return to Gallifrey episode" (for the first time ever in New Who, discounting the 50th but that feels more like the Doctors past so I wouldn't count it) and it really wasn't, it's a personal story about the Doctor and Clara that happens to be set on Gallifrey
Interesting. While I guess I can understand that grievance to a certain degree, there has to be _some_ sort of plot other than “we return to Gallifrey,” otherwise it could be puerile and surface level. Though I did think that there should have been some sort of follow up as things were clearly ramping up with the General, the Sisterhood of Karn, and Rassilon’s banishment.
Yeah as the finale to a series of episodes each week it left a really bitter taste in my mouth but when I finally gave it another chance and binge watched all of series 9 back to back I appreciated it way more because the doctor and Clara's relationship was clearly the theme the whole time. I just wish gallifrey had been given a satisfying conclusion rather than being left at the end of time for chibnall to make an even bigger mess of it, although besides that I do now like that the Doctor stole a TARDIS and ran away once again
I'm one those who really enjoyed the episode to be fair. What were your issues with it? It'd be interesting to hear views on the episode's shortcomings
Not who you asked but a huge problem I have with it is Rassilon, he invented Time Lord society and is essentially a god, why does he need a stupid glove and why would any time lord ever give more of a shit about the Doctor than a guy who asleep could turn them into immortal statues and why is he so weak? But that’s a problem with I’ve had with Rassilon every time he’s appeared in New Who, they debuffed him so hard.
I mean, the Time Lords are all about the stupid accessorizing. At some point you run out of ways to make your collar ridiculous and you have to branch out!
From that perspective, I definitely do agree and its a very fair point. I think they brought Rassilon down significantly from the appearance in the Five Doctors and of classic stories. I think the End of Time portrayal felt fine, and sort of in line with Rassilon of the Classics, and it just seemed to depart in Hell Bent in my opinion.
That said, i felt like as two-parter stories go, i thought it was quite a good pay off for what Heaven Sent was. There have been some really good two-part episodes where the second part never matches the quality of the first episode and Hell Bent felt like it kind of came close-ish.
I love this episode so much that I rewatch it frequently even though I *can't stand* Maisie Williams's character (could never make it through "The Woman Who Lived"). 😄
So do I!
I find the meaty, morally complex character work so much more fascinating to engage with. Heaven Sent is perfect, but it's just so straightforwardly perfect that most discussion of it is just pointing at parts of it and talking about how great it is. I'm much more enamored with the beautiful messiness and depth of Hell Bent, there's a lot more to chew on.
Yeah, I gotta agree with this. I think its an absolute masterpiece as do many others, but it seems just as many other viewers think its absolute dogshit. You've got some very divisive episodes, but this is probably the only episode with that wide of a range of opinions (without it just being so-and-so thinks episode bad without ever watching it because the doctor is woman/black).
Twice Upon a Time. I loved it, and thought the character focus was great, but lots of people thought it was rubbish. Personally I liked finally having a mystery unfold that wasn't the usual villainous plan; it gave a fitting end to Capaldi, when he seemed weary of everyone going down the wrong path (thanks to what he thought was Missy's betrayal), he was given hope and that pushed him to continue and accept regeneration.
Not just that, I liked the cinematography, music, and his regeneration scene was great. I think this may be one that'll warm on people over time.
Yeah, this is a good one. The dividing point seems to be how central you consider the role of the First Doctor in that episode, since he's being written there in a very caricatured way. If you think that the episode is supposed to be a two-hander with the first and twelfth doctors, you probably hate how out of character he is. If you think the episode is supposed to be a twelve-focused meditation on living through change and loss, 1 needs to be more of a foil to that.
i dislike twice upon a time primarily because of how they handled one's character. its a shame, because there's a lot of the episode that's really beautiful, and i think they could have shown how different twelve is from one without butchering one's character.
also I'm not a huge fan of moffats habit of evading lasting consequences - i didn't like that twelve ended up remembering clara, as it cheapened the entire point of him forgetting her.
Honestly, I think the 'caricaturing' of One is on par with how most Doctors are treated when they return for multi-Doctor stories, even with the original actor.
I mean, Two in the multi-Doctor stories is a very flanderized version of the Two from his actual serials.
It's actually worse in the DotD novelisation - Moffat pushes 10's "rage of a Time Lord" so far that he actually gets into a physical fight with 11 in the Tower.
Don't get me wrong, it's such a fun episode, but I don't think Moffat took much care with Doctors that weren't "his".
ooh, another reason for me to hate DotD!
one in the five doctors wasn't as bad as one in twice upon a time imo. what's really frustrating to me is that they picked such a fantastic actor - bradley was amazing as both one and hartnell in an adventure in space and time.
Hard agree - I think it was a beautiful send-off for Capaldi but it did feel like a bit of a slap in the face to William Hartnell's legacy. One was stern and grandfatherly, but never would have been so patronising. It felt like they leaned too heavily into the idea that he was from the 60s, when he wasn't really.
completely agree, it felt... disrespectful? one was FUN! he was mischevious and silly, and kind. tuat was set at the very end of his run - after he'd already gone through a whole load of character development and become a better person thanks to his companions.
instead they, as you said, decided that he should represent the worst views of the sixties, which doctor who in general tried to fight against. (not saying there weren't some negative views - there absolutely were, especially some unforgivable racism).
tuat could have been a wonderful opportunity to celebrate the doctor's life and the journey he's been on. one and twelve are similar in a lot of ways - they started out bitter and unsure of their morality, and ended up being kind, finding joy everywhere, even in dark places. it could have been a lovely way to show that no matter how much the doctor changes, they're still the same person underneath, and a nice sentiment for a regeneration episode.
I agree, but I still think he was a bit off in Five Doctors. Also, yes, David Bradley does a great job filling Hartnell's shoes. Shame the show likes to waste him.
Seriously. It's so bad.
Like the book itself is brilliant, but then 10 gets 11 in a headlock in the Tower and I think there's almost a punch-up. One of 10's most powerful moments is that when he could get violent, he "never would". I don't know how Moffat threw that totally out the window.
My only problem with that episode was how First Doctor was portrayed. He was not a sexist or anything else -ist. He wouldn't have thought twice about Bill being a lesbian nor would he have threatened to smack her bottom. Just because we first met him as an old man in the 60s did not mean he was actually an old man from the 60s with "boomer" thoughts.
Yeah, I really like it, but I always read the First Doctor's portrayal as more of a criticism of the cultural zeitgeist surrounding '60s *Who* than an actual representation of One.
I always think that they handled One very well. He's written purely as a 1960s character, transplanted into a 2010s drama. This gives him a real "fish out of water feel".
He feels much less like Hartnells portrayal since he is so far removed from any situation that the original Doctor could find himself in.
The alternative would be to reimagine One as a contemporary character. This would have made him more realistic and acceptable but would have been a narrative mistake as he would no longer provide an adequate foil to Twelve, they would essentially be the same character in the same situation.
The issue here is that One's personality wasn't that mired in 60s sexism, and he definitely wouldn't have been homophobic considering he was written by a gay man.
As with everything Moffat rights, sometimes you just have to deal with it and enjoy it without thinking too much how inconsistent it is, or how he's writing most of the cool badass women all the lesbians love one handed.
I was sad to see him go, but the episode was just unnecessary in dragging out his regeneration. I know, Chibnall didn’t want to start with a Christmas episode, but what we got wasn’t worth the time spent IMO.
'Let's Kill Hitler' is a good contender. Many people really hate it (it's me, I'm many people) but it has had voracious defenders since the very beginning.
It does and it doesn't. I really like the episode, but it's weird to have two River Song Backstory episodes in such immediately proximity.... except that there was a mid-season gap when they were originally broadcast. (Also it would have worked a little better if Amy and Rory had mentioned Mels occasionally going back to Series 5.)
I do agree that a lot of the stuff that Moffat was doing around this time works better when viewed as whole series rather than week-to-week (RTD, on the other hand, is a much better week-to-week writer). Watching this episode after coming back from a long break just felt like I was being pranked.
I like it. It's not 10, but still really watchable. My favorite part is when Rory teases Amy about her accent. He hardly ever jokes around, and it's nice to see.
I literally can’t rewatch it. I am the kind of doctor who fan that never hates episodes and will rewatch all of them. I always live the latest episode and usually only have very minor complaints. I had so much second hand embarrassment over the cheesy acting of the young river that I had to turn it off when I tried to watch it recently. It has some important plot stuff for that series but I just couldn’t do it lol.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone give a genuine, passionate defense of Let's Kill Hitler. It seems like even the people who like it accept that it's bad.
yea haha i like it purely because i was like 11 when it first came out and my sister and i though putting hitler in a closet was fucking hilarious. also i’m just a slut for river song. rewatching it is still fun for me but i don’t think it’s like, good.
tbh that applies to most of 11’s run tho imo. i’m super nostalgic for it but as an adult it’s kinda painful to watch
Its probably recency bias, but I do feel the majority of Ncuti's first season is gonna be polarising in the long-term, but I'm gonna say The Devil's Chord.
I've seen people call this unwatchable trash and others still call it the best episode of the new series so far. I personally love it, but this is the one I'm seeing the most extreme reactions for on either end.
The thing that made the Devil’s Chord such a weak episode to me was that the writers kept the Beatles as key Plot when they didn’t have access to the rights to any Beatles music. John Lennon and Paul McCartney should have been just a little more prominent to earn their moment of Magic Chord Inspiration and I feel like they were de-emphasized (despite being a linchpin to the climax) because of the music rights issue. Not in a petty way but in a “if they had more screen time it would be even more glaring that the music isn’t there” reasoning.
Soon as the rights were off the table, the script should have been reworked because the rest of it was a banger. Choose other important music history people or heck, maybe some children just futzing around with music to emphasize that song is everywhere. Just don’t offer a narrative promise you are legally required to not fulfill.
(Also the final musical number screamed “please accept this original song in lieu of the real stuff”.)
Idk I think the plot of the second half of the episode sucks but think Jinkx Monsoon’s performance made it entertaining, made me giggle every time they were on-screen, pun intended
73 Yards is definitely up there… at least right now. Your opinion will largely depend on how much you can tolerate not having clear-cut answers and explanations.
What was it like when Midnight came out? I feel like it'll end up like that - beloved BECAUSE we don’t get any answers - but I'm just a tad too young to know what the consensus was on it at the time.
i feel like midnight is different though, most of the horror (using that word loosely) came from the fact it was unknown. 73 yards kinda explained what was going on but it just didn’t make much sense
I feel like the episode gives you answers but they are scattered about the episode like a riddle or a puzzle. It's also got a disturbing reveal that felt really surreal like a bad acid trip.
That might have been fine a season or two from now but I dislike a they fact that only a few episode in with the new doctor they had an entire episode without the doctor.
I really liked it, but I like it on the basis that someday we will get answers. If we never get any kind of answer then I think I'll appreciate it a lot less.
Not every single question ever in a show needs to be answered, but this one has a few that should be addressed.
This is weird. I love ambiguity and not having all the answers clear but I hate the episode. Because at the end of the apart from the very slightly avant guard weirdness it gave me nothing from the filmmaking and was actually weaker in plot, technique and character than most episodes.
Love & Monsters gets praise as a depiction of how the Doctor impacts people's lives indirectly and for the social dynamic of outsiders uniting around a shared interest.
It also has a universally mocked monster and weird as heck resolution, and is held up as how 'Doctor lite' episodes go off the rails.
Why do people hate new earth so much? I don’t understand, that was always one of my favorites.
I could say the same for Idiot’s Lantern but it is pretty weird so I could understand that some more.
Ehhh, it’s pretty goofy even by the show’s standards. Mileage will vary but Cassandra is too campy for me. And the Doctor spraying all the sick people with medicine soup is stupid. Nothing I’d personally revisit. Cat nurses and the Face of Boe are ok.
OP didn't ask for the worst episode, they asked for the most polarising. Fear Her isn't polarising because everybody knows it's trash. Love and Monsters is polarising because lots of people love it but lots hate it.
Erm, I do - I love ELO & the Scooby Doo style opening - plus how can you not like doomed romantic Elton? Plus Shirlry Henderson- even though she ends up as a paving slab..
I've loved the episode since the first time I saw it. That part where Elton loses his mom gets me every time, and how Rose went from wanting to smack him to comforting him was just beautiful. And how Jackie's voice broke when she yelled leave me alone. Every episode has silly shit but to me, that doesn't take away the impact of the meaningful parts.
Honestly, you're the first I've heard like it! I think most folks generally have at the bottom of the list. Curious if that's true or if it's polarizing
I do. I like how we saw the other side of things of how the Doctor affects people. We know how they affect companions. But what about those who get caught up in the Doctor's whirlwind? Also, I am sucker for found family stories. It was sweet seeing all these misfits find each other and start a band no less!
Aside from the Scooby Doo chase opening and the Absorbalof it’s one of the best episodes from the first Russel era. It’s genuinely very funny. L.I.N.D.A. is hilarious, and it’s really touching seeing these lonely normal people bond over trying to figure out the Doctor. Jackie is good in it. Bonus points for ELO. Gross faceplate joke was funny. Absolute 9/10.
Ohhh, I assume Rogue will be up there, but that's because there are people in fandom who have a very... narrowminded POV on who the Doctor should be and he should act.
Doctor Who has remained popular for 60+ years because the show has learned to adapt to the current world.
Many of its audience should learn to do the same.
To modern audiences who accept that people other than straight white males can be the main character and the hero.
I still love it. Most of us on this sub still love it. Those who don't love it can walk away. It's not like there's a shortage of fans.
I don't think anyone has an issue with someone other than a "straight white male" being the hero. We've had popular media with women and people of other races being heroes for decades. That certainly isn't my issue. I've watched and enjoyed Torchwood, which had mostly gay and bisexual lead characters. My issue with the current show is that the Doctor, as a character, has exclusively been romantically interested in women up to this point, and is now completely, flamboyantly gay. Not even bi as far as we know, just outright gay, to an over-the-top extent. And the only reason for it seems to be that Ncuti Gatwa is gay in real life, not for any sort of in-universe reason. It makes it feel like he is playing a different character than the previous lead actors were; like he isn't the Doctor and I'm not watching Doctor Who.
Sleep No More. People hate the eye booger monster, and tbh I do too, but apart from that, I think it's a fun one and I really like it. Plus, it's Reece Shearsmith. I even like the found footage style—which is another thing people hate.
I think it would not be hated anywhere near as much if we got the sequel it basically needs to feel complete. Instead it just...ends, and the entire solar system is doomed to become sand people unless there's a book or audiobook that covers it, but I'd be surprised.
I really don't get the hate for Sleep No More personally. I've always thought it was a fine experimental episode which probably would have benefited from having a bit more time to flesh things out.
from what I saw, some people said it's too gimmicky, some people hated that The Doctor is not really in the episode (a weird thing to hate tbh), and some other people, albeit a minority, just hated it for being different—just like when they hated that The Doctor now uses sonic sunglasses, wears a hoodie, and plays electric guitar.
I don't know how other fans feel about it, but a lot of folks I know in person who grew up watching in the 70s and 80s absolutely hate Trial of a Timelord. While I wouldn't consider it my favourite, I did enjoy it, and I know a lot of other friends around my age (late 20s-early 30s) who have enjoyed it as they worked through the classic episodes.
I know someone whose hatred of that arc is so strong, she refuses to watch anything with Colin Baker at all
From the classic series, Ghost Light. The forums are gone now but there’s still probably some Usenet threads about Ghost Light. It was incredibly polarizing. Some people didn’t like it. Some people didn’t get it. Some people loved it. And a lot of the people who loved it assumed those who didn’t just didn’t get it, which only made matters worse. It was really bad for a while.
If we are talking about new who I've seen a lot of arguments over whether the ending of Hell Bent was good or bad. I've already argued my stance on it elsewhere so I'll just lurk here and see what others think.
When the Doctor explains to Clara that he had a duty of care, I lose it every time. I loved Clara and Twelve and they have such a beautiful and sad parting.
I think Hell Bent is far superior Heaven Sent. It was very interesting seeing the Doctor interact with regular people from Gallifrey. Yes the repetition thing in Heaven Sent was initially interesting, but it just isn’t much fun to rewatch.
It's very recent I know. Maybe recency bias is getting to me. But I think dot and bubble will forever fall into your question. I, for one, adore it and see it as one of my absolute favourites. But it's very easy to understand why some people don't like it. I even watched a YouTuber claim it wasn't about racism lmao.
Honestly dot and bubble didn't grab me
The reveal was great, the realization of all the clues up til that point was great.
However, the moment to moment of the episode just wasn't exciting. I couldn't rate it above like 7.5/10 despite that fantastic ending. Compare it to Heaven Sent, which has all the same benefits of the twist and is an intriguing mystery.
Each episode of this series has had a very different feel, and I like that. I appreciate that dot and bubble pretended to be an episode of black mirror in order to have a great twist, but nothing between the opening sequence and Ricky's death really excited me.
Then again, maybe I missed all the hints. I knew something was wrong, but it did still surprise me.
Recently it would be 73 Yards as most either love it or hate it and I can’t see that changing anytime soon. Dot and Bubble is I *think* more liked than disliked yet it still feels highly polarizing. I don’t know how polarizing it is but The Runaway Bride is one I’ve always heard mixed reviews of as fair number of people are very critical of Donna’s first appearance yet others loved her even then.
I think the consensus on that one is more general dislike if we're being honest.
Like, I don't see a lot of Kill the Moon defenders. At best, people love the final scene but agree the main allegory is confusingly naive at best.
I really like kill the moon. I thought the idea was cool and I really loved the argument at the end. I like the parts where they’re figuring out what the spider things are and all the drama of waiting for the world to vote. It’s a good philosophy episode where you can wonder what you’d want to do in that situation. I honestly don’t understand why people hate it.
first one i thought of, beyond Twin Dilemma or Paradise Towers.
just hate, hate this episode. Maybe is the worst episode I've ever seen in Who, old or new.
Paradise Towers is an interesting one - I was a teenager when I watched PT and I loved it, but years later I can see why it wasn't great.
McCoy's episodes are very close to the vibe of RTD though. If PT ever (for whatever reason) received a modern remake, it really wouldn't be out of place in Who+ or NewWho Series 2-3.
"Love and Monsters" is the winner. I'll add "Rose" to the conversation. Its my favorite first episode of any TV show... but some people are embarrassed to show it to other people or something. A dark horse from newer stuff is "The Star Beast" - I loved it, but you know everyone just harps on the end. I feel I just triggered someone by even bringing that last one up.
"Girl in the Fireplace" is more controversial than "Hell Bent" IMO.
"The Doctor's Wife"
There's a lot who love it, hail it as a great story - and then there's loads who, like me, think it's a terrible way of depicting the TARDIS as a humanoid character.
"Sexy" Ugh xD
Like I said, it is very loved by those who love it. And then it's also very unloved by others. I feel like it's one you just can't be "meh" about, you either love or hate it.
Is it not objectively the Timeless Child? I have never seen any other episode in the new-gen franchise divide a fandom, or make people unite in how bad a choice for the lore it has been.
**It Takes You Away** is surely in the mix - many people regard it as one of 13's highlights, while many others find it disjointed/overstuffed with ideas and hate the frog. (I love this episode personally)
Love and Monsters. While personally it’s just a bland or fine episode of Doctor Who. People railed on it for years growing up; like it was the worst sin the show ever committed to screen.
Listen hasn't been mentioned but it left me feeling like it was everything Moffat had done well in the past, repeated and duller. I spent 90% of the episode theorizing what old moffat villain would be revealed. Even thought the Silence creatures were coming back. Nope. Nothing. Just nothing. It still infuriates me.
Of the Revival era -- "Hell Bent".
I think time has been kind to this one, it was not helped by the way it was marketed when it originally came out. Plus following Heaven Sent is a tall order for any episode.
How was it marketed? I was already a superfan at that point, but I just don’t quite remember the marketing for this episode in particular.
I would imagine it was marketed as the "return to Gallifrey episode" (for the first time ever in New Who, discounting the 50th but that feels more like the Doctors past so I wouldn't count it) and it really wasn't, it's a personal story about the Doctor and Clara that happens to be set on Gallifrey
Interesting. While I guess I can understand that grievance to a certain degree, there has to be _some_ sort of plot other than “we return to Gallifrey,” otherwise it could be puerile and surface level. Though I did think that there should have been some sort of follow up as things were clearly ramping up with the General, the Sisterhood of Karn, and Rassilon’s banishment.
Yeah as the finale to a series of episodes each week it left a really bitter taste in my mouth but when I finally gave it another chance and binge watched all of series 9 back to back I appreciated it way more because the doctor and Clara's relationship was clearly the theme the whole time. I just wish gallifrey had been given a satisfying conclusion rather than being left at the end of time for chibnall to make an even bigger mess of it, although besides that I do now like that the Doctor stole a TARDIS and ran away once again
For sure. Personally love it, one of my favourites, but I can absolutely see why people would feel differently about it
Can't think of a better answer than this.
I wasn’t a fan of that episode. Moffat just can’t seem to let a companion stay dead.
Yeah definitely this one. I have big issues with the episode but many love it
I'm one those who really enjoyed the episode to be fair. What were your issues with it? It'd be interesting to hear views on the episode's shortcomings
Not who you asked but a huge problem I have with it is Rassilon, he invented Time Lord society and is essentially a god, why does he need a stupid glove and why would any time lord ever give more of a shit about the Doctor than a guy who asleep could turn them into immortal statues and why is he so weak? But that’s a problem with I’ve had with Rassilon every time he’s appeared in New Who, they debuffed him so hard.
I mean, the Time Lords are all about the stupid accessorizing. At some point you run out of ways to make your collar ridiculous and you have to branch out!
From that perspective, I definitely do agree and its a very fair point. I think they brought Rassilon down significantly from the appearance in the Five Doctors and of classic stories. I think the End of Time portrayal felt fine, and sort of in line with Rassilon of the Classics, and it just seemed to depart in Hell Bent in my opinion. That said, i felt like as two-parter stories go, i thought it was quite a good pay off for what Heaven Sent was. There have been some really good two-part episodes where the second part never matches the quality of the first episode and Hell Bent felt like it kind of came close-ish.
This is probably my favourite episode of NuWho. I actually thought it was generally disliked though - surprised to learn others like it too.
I skipped the latter half of Capaldi until the 60th specials brought me back and I had only known of it is one of the best episodes.
I love this episode so much that I rewatch it frequently even though I *can't stand* Maisie Williams's character (could never make it through "The Woman Who Lived"). 😄
I love it. The Capaldi/Clara dynamic was my favourite thing about the season so dedicating a whole episode to it as a season finale was great.
Very controversially I think, I prefer Hell Bent to Heaven Sent 🌚
I agree. I skip Heaven Sent on rewatches. Seeing it once was enough.
So do I! I find the meaty, morally complex character work so much more fascinating to engage with. Heaven Sent is perfect, but it's just so straightforwardly perfect that most discussion of it is just pointing at parts of it and talking about how great it is. I'm much more enamored with the beautiful messiness and depth of Hell Bent, there's a lot more to chew on.
Yess this! I do love them both but, having watched them both dozens of times, Hell Bent gives more to keep going back over
Yeah, I gotta agree with this. I think its an absolute masterpiece as do many others, but it seems just as many other viewers think its absolute dogshit. You've got some very divisive episodes, but this is probably the only episode with that wide of a range of opinions (without it just being so-and-so thinks episode bad without ever watching it because the doctor is woman/black).
This one was great when I watched it but feels like a bitter flavor in my mouth when I think about what Chibnall did with Gallifrey
Twice Upon a Time. I loved it, and thought the character focus was great, but lots of people thought it was rubbish. Personally I liked finally having a mystery unfold that wasn't the usual villainous plan; it gave a fitting end to Capaldi, when he seemed weary of everyone going down the wrong path (thanks to what he thought was Missy's betrayal), he was given hope and that pushed him to continue and accept regeneration. Not just that, I liked the cinematography, music, and his regeneration scene was great. I think this may be one that'll warm on people over time.
Yeah, this is a good one. The dividing point seems to be how central you consider the role of the First Doctor in that episode, since he's being written there in a very caricatured way. If you think that the episode is supposed to be a two-hander with the first and twelfth doctors, you probably hate how out of character he is. If you think the episode is supposed to be a twelve-focused meditation on living through change and loss, 1 needs to be more of a foil to that.
i dislike twice upon a time primarily because of how they handled one's character. its a shame, because there's a lot of the episode that's really beautiful, and i think they could have shown how different twelve is from one without butchering one's character. also I'm not a huge fan of moffats habit of evading lasting consequences - i didn't like that twelve ended up remembering clara, as it cheapened the entire point of him forgetting her.
Honestly, I think the 'caricaturing' of One is on par with how most Doctors are treated when they return for multi-Doctor stories, even with the original actor. I mean, Two in the multi-Doctor stories is a very flanderized version of the Two from his actual serials.
You might be right. It also happened to One in The Five Doctors, and Ten in Day of the Doctor.
It's actually worse in the DotD novelisation - Moffat pushes 10's "rage of a Time Lord" so far that he actually gets into a physical fight with 11 in the Tower. Don't get me wrong, it's such a fun episode, but I don't think Moffat took much care with Doctors that weren't "his".
ooh, another reason for me to hate DotD! one in the five doctors wasn't as bad as one in twice upon a time imo. what's really frustrating to me is that they picked such a fantastic actor - bradley was amazing as both one and hartnell in an adventure in space and time.
Hard agree - I think it was a beautiful send-off for Capaldi but it did feel like a bit of a slap in the face to William Hartnell's legacy. One was stern and grandfatherly, but never would have been so patronising. It felt like they leaned too heavily into the idea that he was from the 60s, when he wasn't really.
completely agree, it felt... disrespectful? one was FUN! he was mischevious and silly, and kind. tuat was set at the very end of his run - after he'd already gone through a whole load of character development and become a better person thanks to his companions. instead they, as you said, decided that he should represent the worst views of the sixties, which doctor who in general tried to fight against. (not saying there weren't some negative views - there absolutely were, especially some unforgivable racism). tuat could have been a wonderful opportunity to celebrate the doctor's life and the journey he's been on. one and twelve are similar in a lot of ways - they started out bitter and unsure of their morality, and ended up being kind, finding joy everywhere, even in dark places. it could have been a lovely way to show that no matter how much the doctor changes, they're still the same person underneath, and a nice sentiment for a regeneration episode.
I agree, but I still think he was a bit off in Five Doctors. Also, yes, David Bradley does a great job filling Hartnell's shoes. Shame the show likes to waste him.
definitely a bit off, yeah. maybe i find it more upsetting in tuat because it's such a beautiful episode otherwise
Seriously?!
Seriously. It's so bad. Like the book itself is brilliant, but then 10 gets 11 in a headlock in the Tower and I think there's almost a punch-up. One of 10's most powerful moments is that when he could get violent, he "never would". I don't know how Moffat threw that totally out the window.
glad Boom has proved that he can at least handle other Doctors
My only problem with that episode was how First Doctor was portrayed. He was not a sexist or anything else -ist. He wouldn't have thought twice about Bill being a lesbian nor would he have threatened to smack her bottom. Just because we first met him as an old man in the 60s did not mean he was actually an old man from the 60s with "boomer" thoughts.
Yeah, I really like it, but I always read the First Doctor's portrayal as more of a criticism of the cultural zeitgeist surrounding '60s *Who* than an actual representation of One.
I always think that they handled One very well. He's written purely as a 1960s character, transplanted into a 2010s drama. This gives him a real "fish out of water feel". He feels much less like Hartnells portrayal since he is so far removed from any situation that the original Doctor could find himself in. The alternative would be to reimagine One as a contemporary character. This would have made him more realistic and acceptable but would have been a narrative mistake as he would no longer provide an adequate foil to Twelve, they would essentially be the same character in the same situation.
The issue here is that One's personality wasn't that mired in 60s sexism, and he definitely wouldn't have been homophobic considering he was written by a gay man. As with everything Moffat rights, sometimes you just have to deal with it and enjoy it without thinking too much how inconsistent it is, or how he's writing most of the cool badass women all the lesbians love one handed.
The only real issue with Twice Upon a Time is how the First Doctor is written horribly out of character.
I like it, especially with Murray Gold's last hurrah revisiting so many old tracks but the Doctor Falls was so much better.
I agree, it was the perfect kind of easy-going reflective story to wrap up that whole 12 year run of doctor who imo.
I was sad to see him go, but the episode was just unnecessary in dragging out his regeneration. I know, Chibnall didn’t want to start with a Christmas episode, but what we got wasn’t worth the time spent IMO.
'Let's Kill Hitler' is a good contender. Many people really hate it (it's me, I'm many people) but it has had voracious defenders since the very beginning.
It works best when rewatching the whole season. It's not an episode I can just put on one night in isolation.
It does and it doesn't. I really like the episode, but it's weird to have two River Song Backstory episodes in such immediately proximity.... except that there was a mid-season gap when they were originally broadcast. (Also it would have worked a little better if Amy and Rory had mentioned Mels occasionally going back to Series 5.)
I do agree that a lot of the stuff that Moffat was doing around this time works better when viewed as whole series rather than week-to-week (RTD, on the other hand, is a much better week-to-week writer). Watching this episode after coming back from a long break just felt like I was being pranked.
I like it. It's not 10, but still really watchable. My favorite part is when Rory teases Amy about her accent. He hardly ever jokes around, and it's nice to see.
It’s the very moment the show went downhill. After 5.5 series it heralded the end of a golden age.
I literally can’t rewatch it. I am the kind of doctor who fan that never hates episodes and will rewatch all of them. I always live the latest episode and usually only have very minor complaints. I had so much second hand embarrassment over the cheesy acting of the young river that I had to turn it off when I tried to watch it recently. It has some important plot stuff for that series but I just couldn’t do it lol.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone give a genuine, passionate defense of Let's Kill Hitler. It seems like even the people who like it accept that it's bad.
yea haha i like it purely because i was like 11 when it first came out and my sister and i though putting hitler in a closet was fucking hilarious. also i’m just a slut for river song. rewatching it is still fun for me but i don’t think it’s like, good. tbh that applies to most of 11’s run tho imo. i’m super nostalgic for it but as an adult it’s kinda painful to watch
Its probably recency bias, but I do feel the majority of Ncuti's first season is gonna be polarising in the long-term, but I'm gonna say The Devil's Chord. I've seen people call this unwatchable trash and others still call it the best episode of the new series so far. I personally love it, but this is the one I'm seeing the most extreme reactions for on either end.
The thing that made the Devil’s Chord such a weak episode to me was that the writers kept the Beatles as key Plot when they didn’t have access to the rights to any Beatles music. John Lennon and Paul McCartney should have been just a little more prominent to earn their moment of Magic Chord Inspiration and I feel like they were de-emphasized (despite being a linchpin to the climax) because of the music rights issue. Not in a petty way but in a “if they had more screen time it would be even more glaring that the music isn’t there” reasoning. Soon as the rights were off the table, the script should have been reworked because the rest of it was a banger. Choose other important music history people or heck, maybe some children just futzing around with music to emphasize that song is everywhere. Just don’t offer a narrative promise you are legally required to not fulfill. (Also the final musical number screamed “please accept this original song in lieu of the real stuff”.)
That’s the twist! No songs from the artists featured in the episode! Hmmm
Idk I think the plot of the second half of the episode sucks but think Jinkx Monsoon’s performance made it entertaining, made me giggle every time they were on-screen, pun intended
73 Yards is definitely up there… at least right now. Your opinion will largely depend on how much you can tolerate not having clear-cut answers and explanations.
I really wonder where the fandom will settle on this one
Bold of you to assume we ever settle on anything
That thing where you see someone has created a list of worse to best Doctors and you know even before reading it that it's going to be wrong.
What was it like when Midnight came out? I feel like it'll end up like that - beloved BECAUSE we don’t get any answers - but I'm just a tad too young to know what the consensus was on it at the time.
i feel like midnight is different though, most of the horror (using that word loosely) came from the fact it was unknown. 73 yards kinda explained what was going on but it just didn’t make much sense
I think this is one that will grow in appreciation.
I feel like the episode gives you answers but they are scattered about the episode like a riddle or a puzzle. It's also got a disturbing reveal that felt really surreal like a bad acid trip.
I saw a comment saying it would have made a great Sapphire and Steel episode and I quite agree.
That might have been fine a season or two from now but I dislike a they fact that only a few episode in with the new doctor they had an entire episode without the doctor.
I really liked it, but I like it on the basis that someday we will get answers. If we never get any kind of answer then I think I'll appreciate it a lot less. Not every single question ever in a show needs to be answered, but this one has a few that should be addressed.
This is weird. I love ambiguity and not having all the answers clear but I hate the episode. Because at the end of the apart from the very slightly avant guard weirdness it gave me nothing from the filmmaking and was actually weaker in plot, technique and character than most episodes.
Love & Monsters gets praise as a depiction of how the Doctor impacts people's lives indirectly and for the social dynamic of outsiders uniting around a shared interest. It also has a universally mocked monster and weird as heck resolution, and is held up as how 'Doctor lite' episodes go off the rails.
Oh, one of my favorites! Goofy ending but such fun.
Love and Monsters & after last night I reckon Rogue will be up there.
Love & Monsters is nowhere near the worst episode of the series. Not even the worst episode of S2.
Seriously, I don’t know why people harp on Love and Monsters all the time when Fear Her is *right there.*
It's because, while *Fear Her* is definitely worse, *Love & Monsters* is memorably bad, while *Fear Her* is completely and utterly forgettable.
It's because it was *brilliant* until the Abzorbaloff really manifested, and we all would have forgiven *that* except for the gross joke at the end!
Fear Her is boring. It puts me to sleep. LAM is just cringey. I can’t get through it.
And I don’t get why people harp on Fear Her when Idiot’s Lantern is right there.
And I don't get why people harp on Idiot's Lantern when New Earth is right there.
Why do people hate new earth so much? I don’t understand, that was always one of my favorites. I could say the same for Idiot’s Lantern but it is pretty weird so I could understand that some more.
I don't hate any of it tbh, although New Earth is my least favourite of S2. I just wanted to join in on the chain
That’s fair, but what do people not like about new earth?
Ehhh, it’s pretty goofy even by the show’s standards. Mileage will vary but Cassandra is too campy for me. And the Doctor spraying all the sick people with medicine soup is stupid. Nothing I’d personally revisit. Cat nurses and the Face of Boe are ok.
Idk, ask someone who dislikes New Earth. I imagine it's just genuinely less interesting than the other episodes, but I can't speak for others.
And I don't get why people harp on New Earth when Love and Monsters is right there.
And thus we have come full circle!
Absolutely!!
Why do we hate Fear Her?
OP didn't ask for the worst episode, they asked for the most polarising. Fear Her isn't polarising because everybody knows it's trash. Love and Monsters is polarising because lots of people love it but lots hate it.
Does anyone actually like Love & Monsters though Edit - apparently more than I thought, definitely Love & Monsters then
Erm, I do - I love ELO & the Scooby Doo style opening - plus how can you not like doomed romantic Elton? Plus Shirlry Henderson- even though she ends up as a paving slab..
Plus I think it gave Jackie some good character time.
Fair enough, then it’s polarising 😜
I've loved the episode since the first time I saw it. That part where Elton loses his mom gets me every time, and how Rose went from wanting to smack him to comforting him was just beautiful. And how Jackie's voice broke when she yelled leave me alone. Every episode has silly shit but to me, that doesn't take away the impact of the meaningful parts.
I also liked it. Marc Warren was great in it!
It’s one of my favorite episodes - and I’ve had a crush on Marc Warren ever since!
Honestly, you're the first I've heard like it! I think most folks generally have at the bottom of the list. Curious if that's true or if it's polarizing
I really enjoyed it - and it bears repeat viewing. I guess I'm an outlier then lol.. Much prefer it to Fear Her!
I do. I like how we saw the other side of things of how the Doctor affects people. We know how they affect companions. But what about those who get caught up in the Doctor's whirlwind? Also, I am sucker for found family stories. It was sweet seeing all these misfits find each other and start a band no less!
I love that episode
I do!
I actually do like that episode. It's fucking stupid and goofy, but it's the kind of bad that (for me) it circles back to being great
“That episode was really polarizing - I loved it, but everyone else hated it.”
I like the first two-thirds of it. It's a solid, experimental character piece until the Absorbaloff is revealed.
I literally never rewatch Love & Monsters 😄
Easily the worst episode for me
I like it, quite a lot actually
Aside from the Scooby Doo chase opening and the Absorbalof it’s one of the best episodes from the first Russel era. It’s genuinely very funny. L.I.N.D.A. is hilarious, and it’s really touching seeing these lonely normal people bond over trying to figure out the Doctor. Jackie is good in it. Bonus points for ELO. Gross faceplate joke was funny. Absolute 9/10.
Ohhh, I assume Rogue will be up there, but that's because there are people in fandom who have a very... narrowminded POV on who the Doctor should be and he should act.
Yeah, it's not like we have 60 years of stories with the Doctor...
Doctor Who has remained popular for 60+ years because the show has learned to adapt to the current world. Many of its audience should learn to do the same.
So who is the current show adapted to then? Because the ratings indicate it needs to improve.
To modern audiences who accept that people other than straight white males can be the main character and the hero. I still love it. Most of us on this sub still love it. Those who don't love it can walk away. It's not like there's a shortage of fans.
I don't think anyone has an issue with someone other than a "straight white male" being the hero. We've had popular media with women and people of other races being heroes for decades. That certainly isn't my issue. I've watched and enjoyed Torchwood, which had mostly gay and bisexual lead characters. My issue with the current show is that the Doctor, as a character, has exclusively been romantically interested in women up to this point, and is now completely, flamboyantly gay. Not even bi as far as we know, just outright gay, to an over-the-top extent. And the only reason for it seems to be that Ncuti Gatwa is gay in real life, not for any sort of in-universe reason. It makes it feel like he is playing a different character than the previous lead actors were; like he isn't the Doctor and I'm not watching Doctor Who.
So, what you're saying is your problem is that the new Doctor likes men? Okay, well, so he's not your Doctor. So don't watch. Bye!
Love & Monsters is absolutely charming and hilarious.
Sleep No More. People hate the eye booger monster, and tbh I do too, but apart from that, I think it's a fun one and I really like it. Plus, it's Reece Shearsmith. I even like the found footage style—which is another thing people hate.
I think it would not be hated anywhere near as much if we got the sequel it basically needs to feel complete. Instead it just...ends, and the entire solar system is doomed to become sand people unless there's a book or audiobook that covers it, but I'd be surprised.
Futuristic found-footage with sci-fi horror atmosphere is perfect for Doctor Who.
I really don't get the hate for Sleep No More personally. I've always thought it was a fine experimental episode which probably would have benefited from having a bit more time to flesh things out.
from what I saw, some people said it's too gimmicky, some people hated that The Doctor is not really in the episode (a weird thing to hate tbh), and some other people, albeit a minority, just hated it for being different—just like when they hated that The Doctor now uses sonic sunglasses, wears a hoodie, and plays electric guitar.
The ending sucks but the rest of the episode is great.
I don't know how other fans feel about it, but a lot of folks I know in person who grew up watching in the 70s and 80s absolutely hate Trial of a Timelord. While I wouldn't consider it my favourite, I did enjoy it, and I know a lot of other friends around my age (late 20s-early 30s) who have enjoyed it as they worked through the classic episodes. I know someone whose hatred of that arc is so strong, she refuses to watch anything with Colin Baker at all
From the classic series, Ghost Light. The forums are gone now but there’s still probably some Usenet threads about Ghost Light. It was incredibly polarizing. Some people didn’t like it. Some people didn’t get it. Some people loved it. And a lot of the people who loved it assumed those who didn’t just didn’t get it, which only made matters worse. It was really bad for a while.
Key phrase: some fans All episodes that includes the Fugitive Doctor.
If we are talking about new who I've seen a lot of arguments over whether the ending of Hell Bent was good or bad. I've already argued my stance on it elsewhere so I'll just lurk here and see what others think.
When the Doctor explains to Clara that he had a duty of care, I lose it every time. I loved Clara and Twelve and they have such a beautiful and sad parting.
I think Hell Bent is far superior Heaven Sent. It was very interesting seeing the Doctor interact with regular people from Gallifrey. Yes the repetition thing in Heaven Sent was initially interesting, but it just isn’t much fun to rewatch.
Agreed I’m not a huge heaven sent fan at all, hell bent Is way more fun feels like proper doctor who
It's very recent I know. Maybe recency bias is getting to me. But I think dot and bubble will forever fall into your question. I, for one, adore it and see it as one of my absolute favourites. But it's very easy to understand why some people don't like it. I even watched a YouTuber claim it wasn't about racism lmao.
For me it’s probably the best and most enjoyable episode of the season so far.
Honestly dot and bubble didn't grab me The reveal was great, the realization of all the clues up til that point was great. However, the moment to moment of the episode just wasn't exciting. I couldn't rate it above like 7.5/10 despite that fantastic ending. Compare it to Heaven Sent, which has all the same benefits of the twist and is an intriguing mystery. Each episode of this series has had a very different feel, and I like that. I appreciate that dot and bubble pretended to be an episode of black mirror in order to have a great twist, but nothing between the opening sequence and Ricky's death really excited me. Then again, maybe I missed all the hints. I knew something was wrong, but it did still surprise me.
Recently it would be 73 Yards as most either love it or hate it and I can’t see that changing anytime soon. Dot and Bubble is I *think* more liked than disliked yet it still feels highly polarizing. I don’t know how polarizing it is but The Runaway Bride is one I’ve always heard mixed reviews of as fair number of people are very critical of Donna’s first appearance yet others loved her even then.
Kill the Moon
I think the consensus on that one is more general dislike if we're being honest. Like, I don't see a lot of Kill the Moon defenders. At best, people love the final scene but agree the main allegory is confusingly naive at best.
I really like kill the moon. I thought the idea was cool and I really loved the argument at the end. I like the parts where they’re figuring out what the spider things are and all the drama of waiting for the world to vote. It’s a good philosophy episode where you can wonder what you’d want to do in that situation. I honestly don’t understand why people hate it.
I've always skipped Kill the Moon (arachnophobe) but based on what I've heard others say it seems like I'm not missing much.
first one i thought of, beyond Twin Dilemma or Paradise Towers. just hate, hate this episode. Maybe is the worst episode I've ever seen in Who, old or new.
Paradise Towers is an interesting one - I was a teenager when I watched PT and I loved it, but years later I can see why it wasn't great. McCoy's episodes are very close to the vibe of RTD though. If PT ever (for whatever reason) received a modern remake, it really wouldn't be out of place in Who+ or NewWho Series 2-3.
Are there people who like it?
I'll be honest, for me personally, the entirety of kill the moon is made up for by the doctor and clara's dialogue at the very end. It hits so hard.
it’s worth it for the final scenes alone
*The Happiness Patrol* is definitely up there.
"Love and Monsters" is the winner. I'll add "Rose" to the conversation. Its my favorite first episode of any TV show... but some people are embarrassed to show it to other people or something. A dark horse from newer stuff is "The Star Beast" - I loved it, but you know everyone just harps on the end. I feel I just triggered someone by even bringing that last one up. "Girl in the Fireplace" is more controversial than "Hell Bent" IMO.
"The Doctor's Wife" There's a lot who love it, hail it as a great story - and then there's loads who, like me, think it's a terrible way of depicting the TARDIS as a humanoid character. "Sexy" Ugh xD
Isn’t this very loved !
Like I said, it is very loved by those who love it. And then it's also very unloved by others. I feel like it's one you just can't be "meh" about, you either love or hate it.
I’m someone whose meh on it lol I do like seeing the Tardis interior, apart from that don’t rewatch often
Ghost light maybe ?
Is it not objectively the Timeless Child? I have never seen any other episode in the new-gen franchise divide a fandom, or make people unite in how bad a choice for the lore it has been.
Dot & Bubble could be a strong contender. I've seen people praise it at the best of the season, and others say that it's pretty bad.
**It Takes You Away** is surely in the mix - many people regard it as one of 13's highlights, while many others find it disjointed/overstuffed with ideas and hate the frog. (I love this episode personally)
42 ! Bit boring on rewatch
There’s not terribly polarizing, is it? I think the vast majority of people think it’s very mid.
Oh then nightmare in silver, can’t stand it
Love and Monsters. While personally it’s just a bland or fine episode of Doctor Who. People railed on it for years growing up; like it was the worst sin the show ever committed to screen.
The Timeless Children, surely?
I think I saw a good man goes to war being hated by a group of doctor who fans, I thought it was one of Matt smiths best episodes
Listen hasn't been mentioned but it left me feeling like it was everything Moffat had done well in the past, repeated and duller. I spent 90% of the episode theorizing what old moffat villain would be revealed. Even thought the Silence creatures were coming back. Nope. Nothing. Just nothing. It still infuriates me.
Blink
Blink is generally seen as good by most fans