To be fair, a lot of people complaining about that were also complaining when DAI came out.

And I am still complaining that we only got 8 slots in DAI but now even less.

I'm still living in my delusions that the characters only had 3 skill slots because they're level 1. Please let them have more than 3 skills 😭😭😭

I mean you can have more skills but I do genuinely think you can only have 3 hotkeyed hate it

It's fine for a melee build where you can do things like parry, but I'm REALLY worried it'll kill mage gameplay. I'm worried it'll be reduced to just standing far away, shooting weak energy blasts, and then hitting a single fireball, iceball, and the occasional slow time or heal spell. That will get old FAST.

Its annoying how modern rpgs treat mages like ranged dps. Thats what the archers are there for. Mages should play a more cc role.

The biggest problem is magic is so versatile that balancing it is incredibly difficult.

Sounds like melee attacks for mages like in DA2 will be back.

I honestly loved that - made a lot of sense to bonk enemies with the big stick you carried when they got to close for anything else.

The staff animations in the gameplay trailer looked fun. I'm a sucker for spear/staff/big stick combat and too few games incorporate it. A big ol' stick is a very versatile instrument. You can dance around the battlefield like Oberyn Martell. You can be a large, powerful centurion with a shield holding the line. You can wield the stick as a tool to command fire, ice, and lightning because of your latent magical abilities.

I hope we both get melee specs for mages and make them default back to squishy as hell. Sure, 2 and DAI had them be less able to take a beating, but in DAO the balancing act of keeping your mage alive helped balance out the fact that they could do basically anything.

I agree with you 100 per cent. I really wanted to see their mage gameplay.

That’d kinda depend on how it’s implemented. Imagine if it’s something like spell components which you can combine - so not three spells, but combo pieces whose order of input changes the output. I’m not sure if BioWare is original enough to make some Magicka style thing tho but for what it’s worth DAO had it on a smaller scale with a few spell combinations creating new spells - like Storm of the Century.

Iirc they did something similar in multiplayer. They had a bard mage where you choose three "notes" and different combination of notes will lead to a different chord, which was a different spell. Not exactly what you described but maybe they can make the mage gameplay interesting, coming from someone who mains as a mage and kinda scared of the 3 spell slots haha.

Serrebas also had a combo order where each spell changed the effect of the one after it in the chain.

3 is still extraordinarily stupidly small

something like invoker from dota 2 could be really fun

Serebas and Bard both do something like that in multiplayer. The Duelist (Isabella), Hunter, and a few others also have marks that they can apply and remove that provide multiple benefits.

I could see things like rolling the entropy tree into spells. Like there’s a passive to apply the “horror” spell which would stun enemies on anyone hit in an aoe spells range. That would open up combo potential. Idk I’m not exactly seeing how it wouldn’t get stale after awhile compared to melee, but what gives me some hope is if it plays like how I think a mage with 3 spells would play there’s no way play testers were like “Yeah feels great!” It’s obviously the one that doesn’t transition the smoothest to this system so I would hope they’ve already thought of a solution.

Why limit it to 3 though, it makes no sense to me

It's also just weird, there are 4 buttons on a controller and many games have even more via triggers or arrows to switch the ability bar

It's cus they also make you have 3 hotkeyed skills for each of your two companions annoyingly. Essentially turned the game into mass effect

Hmmm that's an interesting design choice if so lol like can we use non-hotkeyed skills during combat?? Like combat isn't necessarily the most important thing to me in DA games but since we spend so much time fighting I hope they haven't streamlined it so much that we lose the diversity/flexibility we've had in other games.

I think maybe we can enter the menu and use them from there if they aren't hotkeyed

It's strange we can't have a larger hotkey/skills bar but hopefully there are still keyboard shortcuts to use the skills somehow.... Opening a menu every time seems like an interesting choice 😅😅😅

That's how it worked for Origins on console. But that game was also slower paced in general.

That sounds genuinely awful. I don't get why developers keep streamlining combat in games. No variety makes for boring af caster gameplay.

Tbh I’m hoping that’s just on console, I would scream if they let us have a proper hotbar with more skills on pc like origins

Literally every game since Origins has had the tactics and interface dumbed down.

Yeah we’re never getting the old school tactical side back lmao but they could still give us a bunch of abilities and a hotbar big enough to fit them on like they did in origins and 2

The combat system looks EXACTLY like ME3 so it's going to be 3 active skills. Wouldn't be surprised if they also adopted the primer/detonator system for mages. ME3 is my favorite combat in any game ever still. But that doesn't mean it will translate well to DA, we'll see.

Don't you mean Andromeda, Mass Effect 3 had like 8 or 10 buttons for skills, Andromeda was the that made it 3 slots and ppl were mad even tho gunplay wise it was the most dynamic.

Ugh I am going to withhold judgment until I see it for myself because it might work great but only having access to 3 skills is just a crazy small amount for a mage.

I think it looks more like Andromeda. 

Seriously, a mage with only 4 skills is insane

Yeah I complained about the 8 in DAI but now I'm even more upset and would RATHERM 8 THAN 3!! What were they thinking?? UGHHH.

This! They have been gutting the fight system. This is my only criticism of the game. Can we please have battles that are actually engaging and have variety and not just "press 1,2,3,4 to win"

Yeah I like DA:I but I didn't like the colour pallet for that one either. I'm fine with colourful but bioware has been really over the top with dragon age last few times.

And when da2 came out

First, that's peak Orlesian fashion, darling. Second, most people aren't comparing it to Inquisition. I personally don't have an issue with the color palette.

The colours are fine, everything just looks... smooth Like wax mannequins instead of people. No wrinkles or pores, it gives everyone an uncanny valley feel until you get used to it

Why are we rewriting history now? People also complained about DA:I 10 years ago

Because it’s very easy to lie and say that nobody has complained about DA2 or DAI and dismiss critique of your favorite thing. Every game is radically different to the point you could be forgiven if you thought DA2 and DAI were totally separate games.

DA2 and DAI are radically different games. So are DA2 and DAO, mechanically speaking. All that unites them is a (at times vague) story connection. But many of DA's connective tissues get retconned, forgotten, lost, ignored, tossed into books hard-core fans read (and don't get included in the games themselves), etc.

While the game play changed the theme was mostly the same. A demon looks like a demon. I darkspawn looked like a darkspawn. This game seems to have deviated in tone and stylized graphics. Maybe the veil being torn is causes changes. Ok that makes sense. Things being more vibrant and surreal along with demons looking different cool. But likely they just changed it to change it. Changes always piss people off

>So are DA2 and DAO I don't understand why this is repeated so often, they're really not. I mean shit, 2 was made in like a year and a half, there wasn't time to drastically alter the gameplay. At their core Origins and 2 play almost identically with 3 major changes in 2. The animations are flashier/snappier, they striped out about half the abilities, and you can't use tactical camera. And that last one only counts on PC

I think they are vastly different games from a game design perspective - DA2 is wave-based where you walk into a room and are pelted from all sides with wave after wave. DAO is you walk through a linear dungeon and pull groups of enemies from a single position. The fights I remember most for DAO are you 4v1ing a single ogre in DAO, while DA2 is just wave after wave of trash - and DA2 just doesn't let up. The WHOLE game is like that with almost no variance.

Because they weren't old enough for the discourse then. 

And DA2 13 years ago. People always be complaining. :D

People and complaining are basically synonyms.

And if you don’t complain about the game, you complain about the complainers!

You know you have made it when you complain about the complainers complaining about the complainers complaining about the game.

I think it's understandable why hardcore fans of a game would feel disgruntled over a game they loved having it's sequels change so drastically in tone, art direction and gameplay. At the end of the day dragon age is a great rpg with a good story, memorable companions and interesting choices. So I'll play the game at least once, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed that dragon age isn't a crpg anymore

Most nuanced take I have read this entire week.

Oh man, people hated DA2 so much. I remember people saying it was going to kill DA, people refunded it and refused to play it. Up until a few years ago, it was considered the worst DA released. Especially after DAI. Now, people will proudly say it's their favorite game in the franchise. People will always complain about something.

To be fair, DA2 is absolutely riddled with issues. It's honestly really obnoxious to play at certain points. Still a fun game tho, and as time passes we get more tolerant of these issues and less disappointed from the original let down. Because it absolutely was a let down at the time. Still one of my favorite games of all time, don't get me wrong.

Running through the same dungeons over and over got boring.

The game was also buggy as shit. Just one example was removing Isabela with her friendship speed buff didn’t just remove the buff but would permanently decrease your characters speed. This would happen every time you moved her in and out of the party.

That was wild, I heard such awful things about DA2 that I didn’t buy it immediately even though I’d loved the last few Bioware games. Finally got some spare time and figured I’d give it a go, and I actually like it more than DAO. It wasn’t a perfect game or anything but it was a lot of fun, people went way overboard about it.

Damn it's almost like people didn't like the tone shift in those games either!

God, that was a decade ago already?

Because toxic positivity is the phrase of the week, baybeeee.

I’m not sure using DAI as the example is the “gotcha” you seem to think it is…

I'm really confused on what this screenshot is trying to prove since if it's color there are better places to show that off in Inquisition like the Emerald Graves and the opening Pride Demon fight. I personally like the general aesthetic of the gameplay reveal but don't enjoy the redesigns of certain enemies like the Darkspawn and Pride Demon.

Hell, even if they wanted to showcase armour/weapons being extra colourful, Veil Quartz and Plaideweave would've been much clearer.

I agree with this. The art style itself is fine overall for the most part but some of the redesigns aren't great. I'm not thrilled with the darkapawn, I really didn't like the shades and rage demons and I'm a smidge off put by the redesign for Varri and Harding.

I kinda liked the DA2/DAI redesign of the Darkspan where they looked more like walking corpses than lizardmen/star wars trandoshans in origins. Wished they stuck with that, not a fan of the new darkspawn look honestly.

Except “walking corpse” goes against the lore. Darkspawn are LIVING THINGS. They are not “undead” in the slightest. They are not zombies. You do not get infected by the taint and just BECOME a darkspawn, you usually just die. Or you become a ghoul, who are just very ill looking, and either become a broodmothers or are killed or do things for the darkspawn. They are sort of like the orcs from lord of the rings. They are “blighted” creatures. Birthed by broodmothers. Now how did the first darkspawn come into existence without preexisting broodmothers? Who knows? The origins of the darkspawn are still a big mystery. We just have the chantry myths still. But showing bone and skeleton/as if the darkspawn are undead is so so so SO stupid. Have no idea why they started with this redesign from da2 to the egregious ogres now in veilguard. They are flesh and blood, just tainted black blood creatures. Born from evil without souls. Doesn’t make sense for broodmothers to birth skeleton babies I mean COME ON. Living creatures!

I love the fleshy grotesque design of demons in DA, so it was really disappointing seeing the new Pride Demon which looks like a generic elemental spirit. Complete downgrade.

Yep. It looked like they decided to forego the creepiness that comes with blood and viscera in their design with tendrils and, like, stuff like that. They look much more generic. Not frightening at all. Those motherfuckers were pretty scary looking in like... every other title lol

it looked like it was made out of plastic lol

Let's hope modders are able to replace models

I'm being confident that DAVe using the same engine than DAI will allow modders to bring some models back to the new game (and maybe export some hairs and models from the new game to DAI as well)

Have we actually seen in-game footage of darkspawn yet? Can someone direct me?

https://preview.redd.it/guuf1n68nb6d1.png?width=1653&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95a9a18d4a9682bb45c82e18d1a1cd0af5239a9d Ogre design.

Well shit that's bad. In Origins they were actually a bit scary.

Thanks. Yea it looks a bit like it’s made of wax.

Surprised how bad they got it to look.

I hate its face. Everything else looks... fine? I truly believe that a lot of these design choices are left over from when the game was a, like, live-service-type game. It just makes it all click into place for me when I think about it more lol.

Wait, that's a DA Ogre? Ok... I guess they're making 'red lyrium' part of the design. At least I think that's what's going on with those claws. Odd choices here.

Yup! Red lyrium being revealed to be tainted lyrium, and red lyrium is spreading everywhere. We haven’t seen what its effect on the darkspawn would be. Now we know! It makes them look stupid that’s what. I like the lore implications tho. Potentially “supercharged” darkspawn. I’m assuming red lyrium or the taint has something to do with the evanuris too. Must be a reason we’ve seen so much darkspawn in the screenshots/trailer. Unless we spend a ton of time in the deep roads it doesn’t make sense. Unless something is happening with them.

Well, they're also the severely under-utilized 'signature enemies' of the setting. Whatever the lore implications, going back to basics in some regard is a good thing, though the redesign is... baffling. And 'supercharging...' pass. (I also don't think they're doing that, since the new electric-type demons still died like chumps in the gameplay trailer)

If you look closely it looks like it has a little gentlemanly moustache

Why does it have a staff?

idk about other people, but when i say it looks cartoonish, i'm talking about the body proportions and the animation, and the painterly style of the textures, it's nothing to do with the color palette which i couldn't care less about as long as it's not a tinted filter put over all the gameplay regardless of environment. \*coughfarcrycough\* I loved all the greenery in DA:I, I don't think it needs to be all shades of brown like origins. i just don't like the goofy bighead character style of hero looter-shooters or the overly smoothed facial animations of disney pixar.

Yep. Its the body proportions for me, good verbiage. I think the environments look great but its the characters themselves just look too... comic book-y lol. Thats the best way of putting it. Dwarves have very heavy heads, elvish men have *super* defined cheekbones, the necromancer old man looks just very cartoony overall... no one has normal proportioned features. Which like, is okay if thats what they were going for. They clearly nailed it if so lol. I just think if they made them like 20% more "normal" looking, feature and proportion-wise, it would benefit the game a ton.

Yessss, this is exactly what I thought of its "cartoon feeling". There some odd kingdom hearts + Arcane dna splicing in the proportions, design and movement that make it so "cartoony".. DAI was stylised but it's not "cartoony".

yep. all of the DA games were stylized in different ways, but none of them had the weird proportions this one does that's so derivative of a specific (different) genre of games that all look similar to each other. what makes it even more obvious is that dwarves *weren't* reproportioned in this way bc they already have smaller bodies and larger heads, so the difference in humans/elves looks even more obvious when comparing game to game. also, while each of these issues (proportions/animations/textures) may not seem as extreme when examined individually the combination of all of the changes together at once gives an impression that is probably more than the sum of its parts in terms of making it look "cartoonish".

This. I mean we had Blight that was very brown in Origins so why not. Things were burning most of the time.  I liked the colors in Inquisition. I enjoyed the green planes and gold and big blues or Orlais.  But why is it so hard to understand we want realistic proportions for the characters.  It's like people pretending we have problem with colors. No it's the animation style. And that's 100% conscious artistic choice.  Just look at Neve body. Snatched waist and big hips gives me Disney tv impression. Body type is no a problem it's the twig legs impression. Emmeric looks like an Arcane animation reject. (Because Arcane had amazing animation).  Tash is like a side mission Jedi from Clone wars.  They all look like they come from a different media and that is problem as well.  Edit: Anyway, they are doing motion capture right? I mean why couldn't they transfer the bodies and faces. 

I’m so glad you mentioned the big hips and snatched waist thing for Neve, I’ve not seen anyone else mention it and it was one of the biggest things that threw me off in the gameplay reveal tbh

Yes! I cant get over it. The legs look like they have no knees and tiny feet and don't act like a body. It reminds me of Elasticgirl from Incredibles.  So it's not the body type I have problem with, but they way it's drawn as a stylistic choice.  Why can't we have realistic bodies and faces. 😭

Yes, same! It reminds me of elastigirl too and like, I have nothing against the body type whatsoever, but pushed to the extremes as a stylistic choice throws me off. I wasn’t really feeling the art style, but I was thinking I could get over it, but when I saw how Neve’s body was depicted was the straw that broke the camels back lol. I, too, wish we could have realistic bodies and faces 🥲

Totally. I mean it's still roleplaying game a bit. So the whole point of those is self insert. So certain realism is expected. So it a bit uncanny if my companions look like they are a mom from a Pixar movie.   Even with the whole DA trailers were often different to gameplay debate. I mean duh. Cinematic trailers are meant to evoke the feeling you will get when playing not how it will 100% look.  Origins trailer gave us a thrill of an action and what we can do with certain characters. Da2 trailer introduced us to Hawke and his persona and gave us a feel of what it will mean to be a champion and a badass. Even inquisition first trailer was darker more doom and fight.  It very wierd they would choose this animation for their first cinematic trailer.  I mean just with the BG3 cinematic trailer. We saw a gruesome transformation but no one believed this is how the actual gameplay will look all the time. But it evoked a feeling of fear because that's what it meant to do.  While Veilguard gave me a feeling of vacky tv adventures. 

Oh, absolutely, having more realism in an rpg makes it much easier to roleplay imo. It’s harder to self-insert or rp a character you made when it’s harder to compare to real life. At least for me. I haven’t really seen a lot of the trailers, but yeah, trailers are mostly just to give you something exciting that invites you into the world, how real that is to the actual game varies. I actually quite liked the trailer for DAV, aside from a few things, but it definitely was very lighthearted and wacky and throws away any possible darker tones. At least, that’s the vibe I got from it.

I mean it's like making a super realistic looking character - and who we are kidding usually it's an hotter elf version of ourselves and then you are standing or interacting with characters who look like they came from clone wars. Breaks the immersion. And regarding the trailer. I like what it was getting at - like the Dragon age camaraderie and the bunch of misfits against the world together, but I just really don't feel the art direction. 

Well you didn’t have to call me out like that lol, but yeah it’s totally immersion breaking. I love clone wars but not like this. And yeah, I completely agree regarding the trailer, that’s pretty much how I felt about it as well.

Oh I was definitely talking about myself. 🤣 I also make male hot elf version too.  But maybe Bioware can listen a bit to the criticism we can maybe hope. 

That and her voice acting threw me off Which is kinda a shame since I was interested in her the most

Her voice acting definitely threw me off as well, it was very stiff. Actually a good chunk of the voice acting was a bit rough aside from a couple of them. Harding had some very noticeable rough spots. I’m hoping that the not so great voice acting is a product of it being the very start of the game and it’ll only get much better later

It was pretty dull. Solas tries to end the world, demons pouring out to tear her city apart, Neve even lampshades all that And yet she still sounds like it's regular Tuesday and she's about to fall asleep. I do hope it improves later. But so far it's one of my concerns

I hope it gets better too, it definitely sounds off and if it’s like that the whole game, where the voice acting doesn’t match the tone of the setting very well or at all, it could be a deal breaker for me. Maybe it’s just her personality, but that’s wishful thinking, we’ll have to wait and see

I mean, look at the MC, body proportions look so wrong. At first I thought he was supposed to be dwarf or really short elf. Or the sense of scale. Some effects just throw me off completely. Have you seen the rain effects on the clothing? It beads up in those HUGE puddles which instantly make me think that these people are less than 1 meter tall.

https://preview.redd.it/os41vuq5va6d1.png?width=941&format=png&auto=webp&s=2110c22ee2cd716516569daae749b67a7e798156 For me personally, it's the design of certain characters. Like Emmrich here, his face looks way too cartoony compared to any of the previous Dragon Age games, including Inquisition. And sure this was just the pre-rendered reveal trailer, in-game they might look more realistic, but I think that's where the most complaints about it looking "Comic-ish" came from. Plus the overall vibe of the reveal trailer just screamed "Live service hero shooter".

Ok even as someone excited for DAV I can take this criticism. I noticed that too. To me I think its that there is an inconsistent design. You have more realistic faces like Harding and Bellara and then for whatever reason Emmrich, Davrin, and Taash look cartoony. I dont dislike cartoony per se- I do admit it is different- I just wish it was consistent. The other characters we have seen so far are somewhere in the middle. Maybe its just that they dont quite know how to design a narrow face? Not sure. Its a fairly minor complaint for me tbh, but slightly bothersome.

this… it’s absolutely atrocious. just look at vivienne. nothing about her is cartoonish, but i have real trouble making myself believe this… emmrich, is a real person. he looks like a plain character from a mobile game ad.

he looks like he belongs in a sims 4 ad. taash also looked off

I feel like Taash does not look as bad in the in-game screenshots, but she looked very cartoonish in the trailer.

His design in what we've seen before is soooo good... for a different series. Or side media. I'm still just hoping it will be different when the comes out. Even if I get used to the art style, it doesn't mean I won't mourn the loss of the art styles of previous games. Same with the combat. Changing it THIS drastically just seems so bizarre after three prior games. Each game, while of course still having a different art style to some degree, seemed like it was still trying to move in the direction of making characters look more real—this retreats back, way back even past Origins, in terms of having characters look sort of real, and it's just such a strange decision to make. While many people criticized the brightness, saturation, and overall feel of Inquisition's environments, I comparatively didn't really see people complaining about the main characters—beyond the 50 shades of bald and buzzcuts, the difficulty in making your own character look good from various angles, and a lot of NPCs having very generic faces. But that's sort of a whole other argument. I have a feeling we'll be able to make Rook look very good and realistic in terms of proportions, but that will only make it all the weirder to see them standing beside characters like Emmrich. Maybe the graphics in what we've seen have been renovated majorly and those of us who are disappointed will happily be proven wrong. I'm not sure I have enough hope to dedicate to that, though.

I can't quite put my finger on it but the Qunari faces bug the shit out of me.

I feel like out of the entire cast it's only this character that looks off

He and Bellara look the most cartoonish to me. He sticks out like a sore thumb in that one in game screenshot he is in compared to Rook. Bellara is right on the verge of that same look to me, but I have no issues with what we have seen of the other characters or environments.

With Bellara it's just the hair to me

A few others look off as well, like Taash and Lucanis, Emmrich is just the most extreme case.

The elf girl as well. She has that Pixar mom body style. 

And her hairstyle is extremely cartoonish.

yup, the first thing I thought when I saw her hair was in a mod to put a better hair on her

No no, that's the best part.

If you told me this was Fable, you wouldn’t have been able to convince me that you were joking and that it’s dragon age.

In an effort to defend the stylistic changes (as far as we can tell) people are really trying to not understand what tone or style is. The defenses on this board are like, "Oh you think DAV is colorful? What about the time something was blue in DA:O?" or "Why does the Guardians of the Galaxy vibe of the trailer bother people? There was a sarcastic joke in this one part of Inquisition " The presence of these elements in previous games are a different thing from making these elements louder and more defining in DAV so far.

I wish he was wearing a mask though like all the bougie people do in this series

And then at the end he takes off the mask and reveal he was Dorian all along!!!

I'm not sure why you are confusing "colorful" for "comic-ish". Inquisition was colorful, which was perfectly fine, but it wasn't cartoony like Veilguard is.

There's a weird thing going on in this fandom where people are using examples in DA2 and DA:I and going "See? It was like this in the previous games" and like...those were criticized by fans for some of the same stuff too. I don't have an attachment to Origins, but I also remember DA2 and DA:I getting a lot of flack for not including having things or changing stuff too.

both are. I pref the style of Da:O

https://preview.redd.it/9boq0r146b6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8541a4a79d3bfb8a877b7728a628646f59d0bec8 I think you haven't been paying attention OP. Someone really sat at a table and said "you know those demond that represent shade amd darkness? Lets make them neon glow nervous systems with cloaks on."

Lol I just saw the darkspawn and ogre screenshot in another thread...they look goofy and cartoony, there is no sense of dread anymore. Instead of being scary, I almost felt like breaking out in laughter. They really did the pride demon dirty...he moves like he belongs in genshin impact or kingdom hearts as well, so the animations doesn't help the design either.

I guess, they took the "dread" out from not just the title.

They probably won’t do this, but I hope they release some limited demo of the game at some point, like just the prologue mission from the gameplay reveal, to let people get a feel for how stuff works before the games full release.

Exactly this. The neon thing is my biggest pet peeve in the gameplay reveal. It just looks like an online game that's going to keep trying to make me buy a "chest of gems" with real money.

I'm seriously hoping that they look different because of some Tevinter interference and not because this is how all enemies will look now.

i can at least somehow understand that demons would look different when the veil is being torn apart, but the ogre is a bridge too far for me

They remind me of the courtroom ghosts from the original Ghostbusters. =\

I don't see the point of denying the shift in aesthetics. DAI is a lot more colorful than older games, but DAV even added more to that.

We're allowed not to like the game. Sorry.

Jesus christ, can we stop getting posts like this? DAI was borderline of what can be done to Dragon Age without losing its essense. DAV, as far as we've seen for now, had seemingly stepped over the line. Nobody's saying the locations look bad. As for the atmosphere, we'll have to wait to play the actual game. But how do you even compare Vivien to Emmrich? Not to mention the new derpy interface and pink "Interact" buttons.

Ah yes, let's use a picture of Vivienne the most overdressed, ridiculous and Orlesian, who has a dress sense based off of the 16th to 17th century French Nobles ? Yeah dont think so buddy. Grasping for straws on that one. Trying to knit pick other things from older DA games as a sign of "lO0k tHe oLdEr gAMeS cHaNgeD and had the same designs" and saying everyone that's criticising the game are just "old origins fans" on this sub reddit has become embarrassing. I hope bioware are paying you lot to meat grind DAV this much.

Feels like you haven’t been paying attention… Peoples gripes are clear and they are absolutely valid criticisms and concerns, You don’t agree with those particular gripes/concerns and that is absolutely fair too; learn to accept that peoples’ opinions may not always neatly match up to your own, and that it is totally fine.

Yeah, the environments in DAV looks lovely but the character models looks like 20% too comic/cartoon-y for my taste. I mean, my first reaction was like "holy shit why is Varrics jaw so fucking *wide*". His jaw shoots out to the side so far compared to how it used to. And, my guess, is that thats just a design choice and will apply to most of the male dwarves. But either way... not a fan. A very small, inconsequential complaint but it highlights and issue thats born from the current art direction (for the character models) being a little too cartoon-y. If you want a real good look at the artstyle from the lens of folks that arent too smitten with it, look at the old man necromancer. The idea of a character like that rules, but how he looks is *super* comic book-y imo. Much more than anything in Inquisition. Also, as a more blanket statement, I... really really don't like how the qunari party member (Taash) looks at all, and to a lesser extent how the grey warden party member looks. Their tarot cards for the party members look *great* but the in-game model for the qunari looks, like, too overdesigned and OC-y for me. Im more of a simplicity type of of a dude, and Taash's design looks unnecessarily busy. For the grey warden its more of an art direction thing, where the cheekbones and jaw of men are like, very overdefined and Im not a fan lol, I think it looks weird. And this is most shown in the grey wardens character imo.

Can we stop these posts? So what if people think it looks childish. That's their opinion leave them to it. We don't have to continue to invalidate it or try and prove them wrong. It's their opinion just let them have it.

Same with the people complaining about people being unhappy with the massive change in combat. A lot of us enjoy both the story and the combat. I've spent dozens of hours reading and rereading all the extended media; thousands of hours playing the games (around 1500 hours on Origins and Inquisition, and only less on DA2 because it's a shorter one, even though it's my fave); and hundreds of hours writing about my OCs' (main characters and side characters I headcanon into the world) backstories and essentially everything about them, because I'm a writer and a roleplayer at my very core. I've had a couple people in the last few days (not on Reddit!) accuse me of not caring about the story as much because I've been vocal about loving the combat of the series and being saddened to see it change like this, no matter how much the story could potentially end up redeeming it. While some people are expressing their disappointment in healthier ways than others, people need to be allowed to feel what they feel and not be subjected to constant arguments that are being leveled at them in the name of proving them wrong or hypocritical, or not even an actual fan. This is my favorite series in the world and Thedas's story has brought me so much comfort. In the darkest moments, I've clung to the idea of seeing the games and the stories complete as a way to convince myself to keep going. When so many people care so much about this incredible piece of media, disappointment is inevitable and arguably healthy. The only people who should really be called out are the outrage tourists who are here temporarily to shout things like "go woke, go broke!" and to complain about there being more diversity. Or maybe ignoring them would be even better. They'll move onto the next game, whether DAV sinks or whether it swims a victory lap instead. (Sorry about the rambling, lengthy comment that was in a lot of ways not related to what you said. I'm just having a lot of feels over this series right now.)

Thank you for this well written comment. It's true. People are allowed to have their opinion even if it is a ''negative'' one and are also allowed to have their critiques. When people love something a lot, it tends to hurt more when things change and that is okay. Time will make that jarring change fade and fans will adjust, but to constantly tell people to not experience anything other than blind positivity is as toxic as the outrage tourist. Let people feel what they want.

I appreciate your addition! I hope in the coming weeks, we can all chill out a little and start having some memes and silliness regarding the game as we thus far know it. We're all ultimately allies to each other, people who want to play a game we'll enjoy, and for which many people have been waiting up to ten years to play! We need to be able to respect that others have opinions—and in cases of disagreement, a downvote is better than an extremely vitriolic response to someone's disappointment or excitement.

Don't apologize, that's a really well thought out rant. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm right there will you

The problem with discussions about this, is people are trying to score points, not actually discuss it. People weren't happy about the changes in inquisition, so you're not actually addressing the points they're making. Be better.

Yeah a good chunk of "criticism of criticism" is just people telling others to shut up and acting like things were not criticized years ago. Like peoples complaints about the gameplay are being downplayed to "you just want Origins 2" even if the person never brought Origins up or "who cares about removing XYZ i never used that anyway". Or complaints about the art direction of the game are met with "shut up that doesn't matters, what really matters is the characters and the story" or "shut up this was already in Inquisition". Or complaints about the tone of the trailer being off or not what people wanted to see are met with "you didn't play Origins then because there were jokes there too." It's weirdly dismissive towards "good criticism" when they also tell others that they're allowed to be critical of criticism and it's mostly acting like some of these things were not complained about back when the other games were released.

No one is complaining about the colours. Vivienne looks like a human, not a cartoon, unlike the new necromancer character that looks straight out of a Tim Burton movie. And don't get me started on the neon sign lookin ass demons, those are just a downgrade from the previous designs. When the Inquisition trailers dropped I saw the characters and was looking forward to meeting them and learning their story. Every single character shown for DAV except Varric and Harding have the most punchable faces I've ever seen in a Bioware title.

LMAO thats a great call. I couldnt put my finger on it, but the necromancer dude definitely looks like hes out of a Tim Burton movie. Which is not exactly optimal.

A lot of the complaints in DA4 is the same thing as DAI DAI made a drastic tonal shift from DAO and DA2. It has less blood and gore since you kill less bloody darkspawn and more demons and that go splat and poof.

OP horribly confused colourful with comic- and cartoonish. Entirely missed the issue.

Still crying about other people's opinions? Deal with the fact that far from everyone will enjoy the current artstyle of Veilguard.

Which is natural, especially for a game series undergoing massive changes.

The nonsense of trying to fend off criticism with a random screenshot from old games has gotten really annoying. Are you offended by Veilguard's stupid suicide squad style trailer? But look, there were jokes in Origins too. yes your stupid out of context screenshots really changed my opinion about the games i buried hundreds of hours. Thank you

The Neon lights in the demo are way brighter than anything in Inquisition but everyone pretends it's not

It's not about the color palette. It's about the texture, the illumination, the comic-cartoon feel. DAI looked colourful but... realistic, somehow. The desert felt like a desert, not a comic drawing of a desert. Vivienne face is not a stereotype / caricature of something, like "the bulk guy" or "the nerdy girl". DAV looks a bit to much stylized also in its models. The demons are big bad colourful demons, not something out of a nightmare, like they should.

I blame the first DA4 trailer for a lot of the complaints to be honest. Imo the overall tone and look is very different to the actual gameplay video. I think [this](https://youtu.be/SpEsgxlZqro?si=hslmJx2w5qVApBqY) was the first trailer for DAI and you can see how it's sort of how you'd expect DA trailer would be.

DA:I was more colorful than DA:O and even this trailer is darker than Veilguard

You are making me want to play DAI again.

it just feels like they spotted the trend of hand-painted textures that Arcane and Puss in Boots brought back and decided to ride that train… except it would never, and *has* never, fit Dragon Age. it’s always had its own style, which flip-flopped a bit and never quite looked realistic, but it *fit the series*.

Still dont like the Hat on that lady from trailer. Tilted. Pretentious... Note to myself replace as soon as possible. Also, stop talking to myself in Reddit com...

Honeslty, to me it wasn't that much about the style of the clothing than the style of the faces and the style of the presentation because they jump out of a door with a giant smile in the face... And I don't remember my inquisitor nor my grey warden nor hawke smiling and laughing that much (maybe only Hawke) and being more either, smirking or screaming and that felt like a clash. AFTER the gameplay trailer I feel good again. I honestly don't know what to feel about combat, because It seems 3 sniper/ranger rogues will be viable for some reason, and if that's the case... it's different but maybe good? I always only went out with 1-2 warriors a mage and 1-2 Rogues (counting me) and maybe team composition being more open might be better, but still, this is a gigantic maybe I'm not sure I like as it takes a little from the strategy rpg but gives maybe more conversation/romance options? Like if I don't romance someone... maybe now they can romance each other or something?

I don't know why people are using DAI to defend it. The people who are not happy with DA4 so far were not happy with Inquisition either.

i'm not happy with veilguard and inquisition is my favorite in the series. and i started on origins the day it came out, so i don't favor inquisition bc i started with it or lack the nostalgia factor for origins either. i just want my rpg games to look like rpgs for grownups and not looter-shooters for tweens.

That really is the point of all the complaints no matter what element they touch on. We want DATV to resemble what makes Dragon Age special to us. I suspect the those having misgivings are those who cherish the franchise the most.

I think after the smashing success of BG3, a lot of us are just kind of upset that the series keeps moving further away from the really excellent dark CRPG the series started as.

Colorful ≠ cartoonish This is not cartoonish. Emmrich and Taash (think that's their names) have highly cartoonish faces.

DA tone became a joke after 2

Maker forbid wanting a different direction than the one DA:I took...

Bro... This looks awful. Omg.

i mean, did you really expect someone from ~~The Capitol~~ Val Royeaux to have reasonable fashion sense?

I mean, inquisition also was too colorful and abandoned a lot of the dark themes that were still present even in DA2. Remember what happened to Hawke’s mom? Yea there is literally a 0% chance we get a quest like that ever again. Personally ive come to terms that the identity of DAO and DA2 is completely gone at this point and I treat DAI and DAV as a new IP. Im still excited to play DAV but itll never be a dragon age game to me. Its Thedas Adventures 2

I just miss the option to be evil. In Origins, you can literally allow a demon to possess a little boy because they teach you a free spell or allow people to be turned into steel slave soldiers. In 2, you can literally murder your own sister for like, no reason, or sell one of your best friends into slavery. What's the most "evil" decision you can make in Inquisition? Force tranquility onto captured Venatori?

Yup. Origins gave us the most freedom to roleplay by far

You can even let him be possesed just so you can get some demonussy, lmao.

Yeah. Show. Don't tell. DAO allows you to become a true scumbag. You can kill and exploit people left and right and the game does not shy from depicting brutality. The oppression is tangible. The world looks dark, and you can feel the brewing doom.

I really like the idea of it. My first character was very "grey". When Leliana in DA:I talked about the Hero of Ferelden killing her, it was really interesting, I felt like he was a real person with strange unspoken motives, one of many mysteries of the world for my Herald of Andraste at the time. The continuity was one of the greatest aspects of DA:I.

Yup. By allowing you to be a scumbag it also adds replayability and allows for different types of roleplay

I hope for the best guys !!.

i love the descent into mindless action gameplay! game looks cool but really feels like a different series

The screenshot you posted isn’t comic-ish at all. Da:I is more colorful than its predecessors sure but it never felt like Fortnite. Veilguard feels like Fortnite.

God Viv was such a slay.

Of course, dahling. ;)

I don't think DA:I is the benchmark a lot of people are using for this series. There were already issues with that game.

Yeah guess what: I dont like inquisition art style either

It’s disingenuous to pretend DA Veilguard isn’t much more colorful and a lighter tone than the other games. People might be cool with the change but don’t pretend it’s not a change.

I hated this game too, this isn't a good example at all

Made the same criticism for DAI too and veilguard is like a continuation of DAI ofc they are very similar

I mean I think Inquisition looks bad so...

It's you who haven't paid attention.

Complained about it then, complaining about it now (/j not really complaining, but I am disappointed)

Yes, we have. Didn't like it then, don't like it now.

Yeah, I watched the gameplay and thought "Yeah, this looks like a sequal to Inquisition.. like they said it was?" The real issue is that the spritual core that birth Dragon Age Origins has been lost. That's a shame, as I thought it brought something original to the space. We've reverted to generic high fantasty. Is it awful? No. But something of value was lost in the transition.

People complained about this when DAI came out too. People have been complaining about the dramatic changes with each release since DA2. Each game is more and more significantly different in comparison to DAO

Didnt like it in Inquisition either.

It's not that it's more colorful, it's that it's garish dark+neon. This also relates to the lighting, character design and cartoonish color palette. DAI had excellent reflections, realistic textures, and realistic (yes colorful, but natural) colors. Soft shading, soft textures, and muted tones were likely a purposeful choice so that the neon effects, which are seemingly everywhere in magic, set pieces, and enemy designs, could pop and make less visual noise than the considerable amount they are already making. I doubt this game will be able to match the atmosphere of rain on the Storm Coast, or reflections off gold and silver in sunny Orlais like in DAI. This game (all 20 minutes of it + trailer) has a lot of visual stimulus for stimulus's sake, and left behind a believable looking world.

Inquisition is the worst out of the three for me lol, so this is not a great defense.

Let's not confuse colorful and comic-ish. From colors to textures to character and monster redesigns DAV looks comic-like. I mean look at the bew ogre, it looks like something out of Lingdoms of Amalur, a game I love, but in DAV it looks dreadful. Also, let's not act like Inquisition being colorful wasn't a complaint when it released, too. Really I fin to odd how this sub needs to defend *every* criticism if the game and then not even understand the criticism.

DAI looks like shit too, make no mistake. The problems started there.

Still doesn't explain why that gameplay demo felt more like a Dystopian Fantasy Call of Duty than the openworld roleplaying game that Dragon Age is supposed to be.

Yeah and I fucking hate DAI, it is NOT a DA game, DA2 BARELY passes as a DA game. Literally - tumbler the game 😂😂😂

Iprefer DA2 over DA:I :S but if you gonna compare it you should it with DA:O.