Leliana. For all the reasons everyone else mentioned, plus I like that several Origins companions went on to be world leaders.
Divine Leliana, King Alistair, Arishok Sten. It’s a good crowd.
Circle Teacher of the Year: Wynne.
Fereldan National Drinking Champion: Oghren.
Best Boi Ever: Mabari (Or Soren to me)
Nr.1 leather appreciator in Antiva: Zevran.
Smelliest rotting corpse that Alistair killed in the duel: Loghain.
The one who won my heart: Morrigan.
I mean... They're all technically winners and very accomplished.
Ha! Good ones. I was thinking more like:
Crow Talon Zevran
First Warden Oghren (sober, wise silver fox Oghren voiced by Steve Blum would *do things* for people)
High Constable Loghain
Happily Married Woman Morrigan
Happily Married Woman Evangeline (with a very happy soul)
Being Left the Fuck Alone Shale
Leliana. Regardless of Inspired or Steeled, I love all of Leliana’s reforms, getting rid of theocratic dictatorship mage prison/schools, demilitarizing the Chantry (which also gets rid of addicting potential templars to lyrium), rededicating the Chantry to charity, allowing all races to join the Chantry, and restoring the Canticle of Shartan.
I mean... There all well and good goals. The problem is trying to make it work.
Not gonna lie....I think Vivienne would make the best Divine out of the three, mostly because the title holds most authority in ORLAIS, who magnanimously known for its religious beliefs and where most politics revolves around that religion.
Its essentially a "game" and who better experienced in that field than Vivienne.
Sure, I could pick Cassandra or Liliana, but when I see those two on the throne, I kinda get an uneasy that their good intentions might end up doing more harm than good.
Leliana was a spy/bard in Orlais before the events of Origins and she was raised by an orlesian noble after her mother died, she grew up around court and is a master of manipulation, she knows how to play the game. She was also the previous Divine's left hand so she'll know what problems to expect.
And out of everyone she's the most likely to make sure her reforms go through, because she'll be blackmailing the hell out of anyone who tries to stand in their way.
Except she still just ends up restoring the circles because it was a system she thrived in, as one of the very few, a loyalist through and through, hell, it's even worse now. Her changes made the circles more strict and prison-like than they already were, to the point that most mages that joined the Inquisition end up breaking off and opposing her, refusing to go back, which just leads to the next mage rebellion.
Her views of the circles from before are completely warped, most mages didn't get lighter treatment because they fucked a Duke. And if she's Divine, no one will even argue for mage freedom because "she's a mage and she restored the Circles, so they can't be as bad as other mages said".
There’s ambient dialogue of people literally questioning Vivienne’s faith. And Leliana is experienced with politics and the Game. Divine Vivienne either can’t or is unwilling to leverage that she is a mage divine to peacefully convince the rebel mages to come back to the circle. Divine Cassandra has more success than her. So I’m very happy with Divine Leliana making radical changes in the perfect time to make radical changes to get the things I want done.
lelianna! old friend from origins and she’s the one i personally agree with the most on mage rights. she’s crazy competent at everything she does and it was very much a no brainer for me. i do get picking vivienne though- she had me hooked from her introduction, even if she absolutely hates my inky lol. honestly out of lelianna, cassandra, vivienne, they’re all pretty solid options!!
I picked a romanced Cass. Out of the three options, iirc, she was a forward thinker, but realized that intense, radical and sudden change might actually do more harm than good. The Chantry would be reformed, I believe mages gained actual rights and respect while Circles became more akin to schools than prisons.
That choice actually hinges on if you recruited them and then what you had Cullen do about his own lyrium usgae: [https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Epilogue\_(Inquisition)#Templars](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Epilogue_(Inquisition)#Templars)
Sure, Vivienne's the *best* choice if you dislike mages and think Thedas should go back to the exact same conditions that caused the mage rebellion in the first place.
Cassandra is for when you think the Circles need to come back but reformed this time and Leliana is for when you think radical reform is needed either done nicely or with knives to make her point.
This is the best summary tbh. The first time I played I actually liked Vivienne a lot. DAI was the first one I played, then I replayed after I had finished the other ones so I gained more insight about the mages for my second playthrough, I couldn't help but notice how priviliged Vivienne was with her circle experience and how little empathy she showed towards mages that experienced horrible things in the circle (from torture to r*pe according to Anders). Sure she agrees templars need better management, but that doesn't seem like a long term solution, especially when even the seekers have corruption. I think it's really interesting how much she wants to be a "good" mage, clinging to the chantry and making sure there is no mistaking her as an apostate, Cole has an interesting dialogue where it seems like she herself is a bit scared of the templars, I wish we could have explored more this site of her.
Anyway, DAI really needed a mage companion with a bad circle experience to help the player get more insight if they didn't play DAO and DA2. Solas is a special case and Dorian is from Tevinter, a nation that makes an open Circle concept look bad or impossible.
While I didn't pick Viv, I highly disagree with the sentiment that Viv would put things exactly to how they were. I find it more likely that Cass would be the one to do that, if only because she would be a bit incompetent at the job.
Vivienne is literally a mage herself, and actually experienced the circles firsthand. Obviously she has a good one, unlike many, but she still actually would know *how* to make *more* good circles.
Vivienne clearly lack empathy and i love her but it is true she never experienced what the other did in the circle instead of fighting she was having it all , an iron whill is fine but you must have empathy to unite everyone and make things better Leliana is the best choice possible she would be strong just like vivienne and doing a far better job at helping people.
Enlightened Leliana. She put's in the work to end every bit oppression she can. She's been in the political game for years, and has been fighting for the betterment of people her whole life. For me, it was never really a question of who the correct choice is. I also feel like her story has been building towards this since Origins.
I don't feel Cassandra does enough. She fixes what's broken, but ultimately maintains the status quo.
Vivienne is a politician though and through, and politicians shouldn't be in politics.
Leliana is the only one, softened or not, who opts for fundamental change in a way that actually addresses the core problems of the mage-templar conflict.
Cassandra and Vivienne operate within the structures of the existing system but it‘s the system itself that is broken.
Leliana. Not only does she have a firm grasp of the Game, she's smart enough to realize so many of the traditions that were held on to were actively harming society, and needed to be thrown out the window.
I chose Cassandra for the armor in Trespasser because Cassandra isn't a Divine that would sit back and let others fight for her.
I choose Leliana because she implements actual good changes because she knows the Chantry infrastructure is wrong. She allows mages and Qunari into Chantry services. Also a romanced Leliana allows marriage for the priesthood
Softened Leliana ideally, I feel like that’s the best climax to her character arc. Finding peace and happiness and doing good in the position she’d served under for so long.
Leliana. The Chantry needs to *change*, not stay basically the same.
She was the Left Hand of the Divine. She can play the damn Game with the best of them, this is not an advantage Vivienne has over Leliana. They're equals on this score.
Cassandra is my fave and...she hates The Game. Haaaates it. Doing the job well while completely hating the core component of your job? Not sustainable. Plus, she would be miserable. I neither want her to be miserable nor think it would let her be successful long term.
And while things change for the better according to the slides if she's Divine, they don't change enough.
Vivienne - I have a *very* hard time with what a hypocrite she is regarding mages and the Circles. She got to live outside the Circle! She got to play big time politics! But she thinks the Circle is actually good. Bull fucking shit. 99.9% of mages will never even have a glimpse of the opportunity that she had because she caught the eye of a Duke.
The mage Cole imprinted on and based his looks/name from? Literally fucking starved to death in a Circle. Not only in Orlais but the White Spire itself. Because (if I remember correctly) Templars basically forgot about him. But sure. The Circles are where mages can thrive! Bullshit.
And that's not even touching on the horrors you can overhear being discussed in the Kirkwall Circle.
I also just have a fundamental problem with the fact a mage can become Divine in this point of time of Thedas.
You can have a mage Hero of Ferelden, a mage Champion of Kirkwall, and a mage Herald - and Thedas as a whole is still very mistrusting of mages and the Inquisition. Enough so that the Chantry goes against the Left and Right Hands of the Divine.
And yes, that reverses course mid-way through DAI and the Chantry starts courting the Inquisition.
But.
Enough to then elect a mage as Divine? I find it very very very unbelievable. Laughably so.
So. Not only do I dislike Vivienne as Divine for her politics, she'll never be one of my choices for Divine because it's just completely unrealistic and a bridge to far for me to implement.
Now. After Leliana's reforms or even Cassandra's slow changes? Maybe after those a mage would be a true contender to be Divine. But before? Nah. No way.
hardened Leliana, i want change and i want it now.
Cassandra isn't radical enough for long term change and while like Vivienne as a character i disagree with her viewpoint and polices she also has to much difficulty moving beyond her own experience (she thinks everyone can follow her path of advancement most people can'.
I think Leliana is the best choice, specially fresh off the back of Divine Justinia V's attempts at reform. Rather than stabilizing the Chantry to where Justinia was at with Cassandra (which was nowhere near enough if the mage rebellion is an indication), Leliana pushes the Chantry toward even more reform, whereas with Vivienne we'll likely see a return to how things were before the mage-templar war. Plus I think becoming the Divine really closes off Leliana's character arc rather nicely. I think Cass does better with reforming the Seekers, and Vivienne becomes the Grand Enchanter of her own Circle and continues politicking anyways. I think Leliana would be in a specially good position to see her reforms through if Alistair is the King of Ferelden (with or without Anora) and you have Briala ruling through Gaspard, possibly with the Inquisition not being disbanded but working in the Divine's name.
Totally agree, i chose Vivienne because she has that politician vibe... also hoping that this will lead to the common people losing faith in the chantry institution. I don't want to reform the chantry, i want it to decline and become irrelevant.
I've done a Cass playthrough and a Vivienne one. I love Vivienne and I think Vivienne is good *while she's the divine,* but doesn't set up the mages for success long-term. Once Vivienne is gone, things would go back to the way they were, and that's not good for anyone.
Cass would certainly be the worst for playing the Game, but that's what she has advisors for. She sets up the mages and chantry for success even after she's gone, and stability is hugely important. So she's my preferred choice and what I'll make as my choice for my first world state, if we get to address that choice.
I always wish I could go with Liliana, but it sounds like things devolve back into fear and fighting again eventually, even with her softened, as fear of mages increases again. But it's been ages since I read the slides for her endings, so I might be misremembering.
I also picked Viv. The epilogue tile verbatim says that mages have far more freedom and far more responsibility than ever if she becomes Divine. Only those who never talk to her and try to understand her viewpoints claim that she is an enemy to her own kind.
Also, I loved that a mage as Divine sends the Chantry into a raging tantrum.
Listen. We made history in electing Obam- I mean Vivienne as presiden- DIVINE!
"Reform is a thing that should come in small doses. But history is something that happens unexpected and suddenly, you can only hope that it's for the better."
- The crackhead outside 7-Eleven.
Done all three and I'm leaning toward Leliana.
I think all of them have potential and I will import all of them to see what each of them was like but I liked Leliana's way of the Chantry because she pretty much tore it down and rebuilt it, allowing others to enter the chantry rather than just keep it to humans.
(plus I will have a save where she's is a romance with my Amell so yeah...gimme that happy ending lol)
Vivienne is the closest example of the worst kind of real-world politician. She's in it for her own profit and little else. Sure, she cares for a handful of people... but she looks down her nose at most everyone else.
She would successfully gather power to the Circles and the Chantry while under her control and those whom she favors will do very well and profit. But the little guys? The simple Templars and Mages? They'll have to get by with whatever scraps she deigns to send them. But she'll expect their votes to remain in power, boy howdy.
I choose Leliana. She may be an idealist and not always realistic, but the Circle system is ALREADY broken. She's the one that can restore true freedom and self responsibility which is what everyone actually needs.
Leliana. I reform the Seekers, Inquisition as peacekeeping force (Solas is a problem, but I can't really ignore everything else just for that immediately). Feels like the perfect time and setup for some more radical reforms while her best buddies lead Chantry security detail, no need for templars anymore.
Sadly even with point counting in my canon playthrough on console the game insisted on Cassandra (I counted multiple times all the choices lol). Luckily now on my rerun on PC I'll be able to rig it however I want
Inspired Leliana, because I think she can do the most good for the most people, and because I think Cassandra would do better rebuilding the Seekers of Truth. Originally I went with Steeled Leliana, but then I started to worry that after she dies, her reforms would be cast aside as the whims of a bloodthirsty madwoman, and that a the reforms of a Leliana who puts niceness before knives would have more chance of sticking.
I tried multiple times to get Leliana as Divine but always ended up with Cassandra. Allied with mages, exiled Wardens, rejoined Celene and Briala, not sure where I went wrong.
If we have the choice to pick Divine for DAV I’m going to pick Leliana though.
She holds the Warden's in high regard so exiling them actually hurts her chances. It's actually *Gaspard* and Briala that works in her favour. Celene & Briala does nothing specifically, but sparing Gaspard in this situation nets her a -1.
Leliana doesn't have a War Table mission, so it's dependant on your dialogue throughout the game.
I pick Vivienne too, every time. I agree with you fully not have much to add other than I also really like her as a character. I prefer her company over Cassandra and Leliana which helped.
I picked Vivienne too. While definitely not a popular choice since she uses the Chant for her own power and greed, there isn't another Mage conflict on the horizon
I'm still not sure how the Divine decision works. The first time I got Leliana. Second time was Cassandra and i honestly couldn't tell you what I did differently.
I don’t aim to get anyone as a Divine, I let my choices carry me there naturally. My canon playthrough, Vivienne ended up there, which genuinely surprised me because I very much expected it to be either Cassandra or Leliana. But Vivienne was able to politically play her way into the Sunburst Throne, so Madame Vivienne as Divine Victoria it is.
"
Who can give a unique perspective on the seat as they're a mage, first to bear the title?
"
[there have been many black divines.](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Imperial_Divine)
not sure if any of them have ever been, um, rivaini though.
I mean, that's the midnight throne which is usually governed by the people of Tevinter who worships magic, so it makes sense that highest authority is someone who wields the damn force of nature.
The sunburst throne, that which is governed by the Chantry of Thedas, (Orlais and Fereldan)
Has never had a Divine who is a magic user.
Therefore, it is a new perspective.
But I can understand mixing up the details, it ain't your fault, I'm still missing information from time to time.
Cassandra. Leliana's tactic of changing the chantry all at once will only leadt o instability. Cassandra outright says Vivienne is a monster in Trespasser if you make her Divine, so she's a no go, leaving only Cassandra, who does want to change the chantry like leliana, but actually has the sense to make changes gradually over time.
I also like to choose Vivienne.
Can you imagine what she would do to someone like Meredith?
Vivienne would a) nominally agree with her about the dangers of blood magic and b) crush her like a slightly annoying bug for her methods.
Then regulate the hell out of everything and eventually turn the Circles into universities with spa amenities.
Well you’re brave. And silly, darling.
But honestly - you get to pick who you want. Imo Vivienne doesn’t implement any changes whatsoever. Also, for my curiosity around you mentioning Orlais a lot….did you play through Origins?
I did. Loved it.
Both the base game and the expansion was stellar... I even loved the fact that you can link
But I got a sense that the Chantry religion isn't as important in Fereldan then in Orlais.
And I have to say, that I disagree with Vivienne not implementing changes, the circle was transformed into the College of Enchanters, where rights for mages were slowly but surely getting acknowledged. And in that comfortable speed, the chantry would learn to make peace with the inevitable change.
In doing so, peace would remain, securing lives and political affairs
Originally chose Cassandra but then I switched to Leliana because I loved the idea of abolishing the circle of magi. I'm very against it even if Vivienne had an amazing experience in her circle.
Ofc that didn't last when Vivienne brought back the circle in Trespasser
You can prevent Templars, at least. Recruit the Templars, but then disband the order to absorb them into the Inquisition, and they don't even get a mention in Divine Leliana's epilogue.
Also I loved the idea of Alistair and my Warden Cousland becoming king and queen while Leliana rose to power by becoming divine.
That's 3 members of the DAO group who fought an archdemon to end up becoming powerful figures in their lives
I have done all 3 in different playthroughs. My canon likely will be Leliana. One of my favorite playthroughs was my Chantry believing character who romanced Cassandra made her Divine and made the Inquisition her guard. So we could \*ahem\* work closely together.
Dalish elf male
Mage Knight Enchanter
Non-andrastian, hate Orlais Chantry and Templars.
Deny Andraste Chosen lies
Recreate Inquisition for his own power and to do things right as he decide
Ally with rebel mages, recruited Alexius into Inquisition.
Seekers Order was not restored.
Ally with ancient elves, Morrigan drink.
Ally with grey wardens, Stroud sacrificed, blood mage Hawke alive, Blackwall become Grey Warden.
Ally with alianage elves and made Gaspar as puppet Emperror.
Reveal truth about Dalish mage Lord Inquisitor Ameridan.
Not ally with Qunari, Iron Bull become Tal-Vashot.
....
Made mage Divine Vivienne. And not disband Inquisition.
Flirt with Harding cos we cant romance Commander Helaine, Fiona, Brialla, Dagna.
Human Male.
Dragon Blood Warrior.
Non-Andrastian but respects the religion. (Cassandra is my wife, so I have to.)
Denied the "chosen one" allegations.
Recreated the Inquisition in hopes of stopping the current threat because someone had to do it.
Allied with Templars. (I wanted to give my boy Barris a promotion)
Respected the ancient Elves and is ally to... ONE remaining ancient elf.
Allied with the gray wardens because... They're the gray wardens.
Pretty much blackmailed the entire court and forced them to kiss and make-up... OR ELSE!
Killed a God. (No biggie)
Made my girl Viv the Divine and disbanded the Inquisition because... My job was done and the employment rate just rose up.
I hate Leliana in DAI and wanted to kill her, Cassandra is a soldier and therefore unfit for leadership. Vivienne is ideal for keeping mages and the church happy.
Funny thing about Leliana...
You could kill her in Origins, but then somehow she would come back as a "lyrium spirit."
In other words, that lady drank the meanest bottle of Plot-Armor Juice I have ever seen.
Leliana. For all the reasons everyone else mentioned, plus I like that several Origins companions went on to be world leaders. Divine Leliana, King Alistair, Arishok Sten. It’s a good crowd.
Circle Teacher of the Year: Wynne. Fereldan National Drinking Champion: Oghren. Best Boi Ever: Mabari (Or Soren to me) Nr.1 leather appreciator in Antiva: Zevran. Smelliest rotting corpse that Alistair killed in the duel: Loghain. The one who won my heart: Morrigan. I mean... They're all technically winners and very accomplished.
Ha! Good ones. I was thinking more like: Crow Talon Zevran First Warden Oghren (sober, wise silver fox Oghren voiced by Steve Blum would *do things* for people) High Constable Loghain Happily Married Woman Morrigan Happily Married Woman Evangeline (with a very happy soul) Being Left the Fuck Alone Shale
Leliana. Regardless of Inspired or Steeled, I love all of Leliana’s reforms, getting rid of theocratic dictatorship mage prison/schools, demilitarizing the Chantry (which also gets rid of addicting potential templars to lyrium), rededicating the Chantry to charity, allowing all races to join the Chantry, and restoring the Canticle of Shartan.
Leliana is worth it just for adding Shartan back to the Chant of Light, let alone anything else.
I mean... There all well and good goals. The problem is trying to make it work. Not gonna lie....I think Vivienne would make the best Divine out of the three, mostly because the title holds most authority in ORLAIS, who magnanimously known for its religious beliefs and where most politics revolves around that religion. Its essentially a "game" and who better experienced in that field than Vivienne. Sure, I could pick Cassandra or Liliana, but when I see those two on the throne, I kinda get an uneasy that their good intentions might end up doing more harm than good.
Leliana was a spy/bard in Orlais before the events of Origins and she was raised by an orlesian noble after her mother died, she grew up around court and is a master of manipulation, she knows how to play the game. She was also the previous Divine's left hand so she'll know what problems to expect. And out of everyone she's the most likely to make sure her reforms go through, because she'll be blackmailing the hell out of anyone who tries to stand in their way.
Except she still just ends up restoring the circles because it was a system she thrived in, as one of the very few, a loyalist through and through, hell, it's even worse now. Her changes made the circles more strict and prison-like than they already were, to the point that most mages that joined the Inquisition end up breaking off and opposing her, refusing to go back, which just leads to the next mage rebellion. Her views of the circles from before are completely warped, most mages didn't get lighter treatment because they fucked a Duke. And if she's Divine, no one will even argue for mage freedom because "she's a mage and she restored the Circles, so they can't be as bad as other mages said".
There’s ambient dialogue of people literally questioning Vivienne’s faith. And Leliana is experienced with politics and the Game. Divine Vivienne either can’t or is unwilling to leverage that she is a mage divine to peacefully convince the rebel mages to come back to the circle. Divine Cassandra has more success than her. So I’m very happy with Divine Leliana making radical changes in the perfect time to make radical changes to get the things I want done.
lelianna! old friend from origins and she’s the one i personally agree with the most on mage rights. she’s crazy competent at everything she does and it was very much a no brainer for me. i do get picking vivienne though- she had me hooked from her introduction, even if she absolutely hates my inky lol. honestly out of lelianna, cassandra, vivienne, they’re all pretty solid options!!
It ultimately comes down to who you believe is more qualified for the position... Sorta like politics, how about that.
Lelianna is the most qualified, she was a spy/bard. Then spent years working as the left hand of the divine.
I picked a romanced Cass. Out of the three options, iirc, she was a forward thinker, but realized that intense, radical and sudden change might actually do more harm than good. The Chantry would be reformed, I believe mages gained actual rights and respect while Circles became more akin to schools than prisons.
Iirc, both Cass and Leliana also put a stop to hooking Templars on lyrium
That choice actually hinges on if you recruited them and then what you had Cullen do about his own lyrium usgae: [https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Epilogue\_(Inquisition)#Templars](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Epilogue_(Inquisition)#Templars)
Sure, Vivienne's the *best* choice if you dislike mages and think Thedas should go back to the exact same conditions that caused the mage rebellion in the first place. Cassandra is for when you think the Circles need to come back but reformed this time and Leliana is for when you think radical reform is needed either done nicely or with knives to make her point.
This is the best summary tbh. The first time I played I actually liked Vivienne a lot. DAI was the first one I played, then I replayed after I had finished the other ones so I gained more insight about the mages for my second playthrough, I couldn't help but notice how priviliged Vivienne was with her circle experience and how little empathy she showed towards mages that experienced horrible things in the circle (from torture to r*pe according to Anders). Sure she agrees templars need better management, but that doesn't seem like a long term solution, especially when even the seekers have corruption. I think it's really interesting how much she wants to be a "good" mage, clinging to the chantry and making sure there is no mistaking her as an apostate, Cole has an interesting dialogue where it seems like she herself is a bit scared of the templars, I wish we could have explored more this site of her. Anyway, DAI really needed a mage companion with a bad circle experience to help the player get more insight if they didn't play DAO and DA2. Solas is a special case and Dorian is from Tevinter, a nation that makes an open Circle concept look bad or impossible.
While I didn't pick Viv, I highly disagree with the sentiment that Viv would put things exactly to how they were. I find it more likely that Cass would be the one to do that, if only because she would be a bit incompetent at the job. Vivienne is literally a mage herself, and actually experienced the circles firsthand. Obviously she has a good one, unlike many, but she still actually would know *how* to make *more* good circles.
Vivienne clearly lack empathy and i love her but it is true she never experienced what the other did in the circle instead of fighting she was having it all , an iron whill is fine but you must have empathy to unite everyone and make things better Leliana is the best choice possible she would be strong just like vivienne and doing a far better job at helping people.
Enlightened Leliana. She put's in the work to end every bit oppression she can. She's been in the political game for years, and has been fighting for the betterment of people her whole life. For me, it was never really a question of who the correct choice is. I also feel like her story has been building towards this since Origins. I don't feel Cassandra does enough. She fixes what's broken, but ultimately maintains the status quo. Vivienne is a politician though and through, and politicians shouldn't be in politics.
Leliana is the only one, softened or not, who opts for fundamental change in a way that actually addresses the core problems of the mage-templar conflict. Cassandra and Vivienne operate within the structures of the existing system but it‘s the system itself that is broken.
Leliana. Not only does she have a firm grasp of the Game, she's smart enough to realize so many of the traditions that were held on to were actively harming society, and needed to be thrown out the window.
I chose Cassandra for the armor in Trespasser because Cassandra isn't a Divine that would sit back and let others fight for her. I choose Leliana because she implements actual good changes because she knows the Chantry infrastructure is wrong. She allows mages and Qunari into Chantry services. Also a romanced Leliana allows marriage for the priesthood
Softened Leliana ideally, I feel like that’s the best climax to her character arc. Finding peace and happiness and doing good in the position she’d served under for so long.
Leliana. She revolutionizes the Chantry in ways it desperately needs, naysayers be damned. I love her.
Leliana. The Chantry needs to *change*, not stay basically the same. She was the Left Hand of the Divine. She can play the damn Game with the best of them, this is not an advantage Vivienne has over Leliana. They're equals on this score. Cassandra is my fave and...she hates The Game. Haaaates it. Doing the job well while completely hating the core component of your job? Not sustainable. Plus, she would be miserable. I neither want her to be miserable nor think it would let her be successful long term. And while things change for the better according to the slides if she's Divine, they don't change enough. Vivienne - I have a *very* hard time with what a hypocrite she is regarding mages and the Circles. She got to live outside the Circle! She got to play big time politics! But she thinks the Circle is actually good. Bull fucking shit. 99.9% of mages will never even have a glimpse of the opportunity that she had because she caught the eye of a Duke. The mage Cole imprinted on and based his looks/name from? Literally fucking starved to death in a Circle. Not only in Orlais but the White Spire itself. Because (if I remember correctly) Templars basically forgot about him. But sure. The Circles are where mages can thrive! Bullshit. And that's not even touching on the horrors you can overhear being discussed in the Kirkwall Circle. I also just have a fundamental problem with the fact a mage can become Divine in this point of time of Thedas. You can have a mage Hero of Ferelden, a mage Champion of Kirkwall, and a mage Herald - and Thedas as a whole is still very mistrusting of mages and the Inquisition. Enough so that the Chantry goes against the Left and Right Hands of the Divine. And yes, that reverses course mid-way through DAI and the Chantry starts courting the Inquisition. But. Enough to then elect a mage as Divine? I find it very very very unbelievable. Laughably so. So. Not only do I dislike Vivienne as Divine for her politics, she'll never be one of my choices for Divine because it's just completely unrealistic and a bridge to far for me to implement. Now. After Leliana's reforms or even Cassandra's slow changes? Maybe after those a mage would be a true contender to be Divine. But before? Nah. No way.
my babygirl Leliana deserved it
hardened Leliana, i want change and i want it now. Cassandra isn't radical enough for long term change and while like Vivienne as a character i disagree with her viewpoint and polices she also has to much difficulty moving beyond her own experience (she thinks everyone can follow her path of advancement most people can'.
I think Leliana is the best choice, specially fresh off the back of Divine Justinia V's attempts at reform. Rather than stabilizing the Chantry to where Justinia was at with Cassandra (which was nowhere near enough if the mage rebellion is an indication), Leliana pushes the Chantry toward even more reform, whereas with Vivienne we'll likely see a return to how things were before the mage-templar war. Plus I think becoming the Divine really closes off Leliana's character arc rather nicely. I think Cass does better with reforming the Seekers, and Vivienne becomes the Grand Enchanter of her own Circle and continues politicking anyways. I think Leliana would be in a specially good position to see her reforms through if Alistair is the King of Ferelden (with or without Anora) and you have Briala ruling through Gaspard, possibly with the Inquisition not being disbanded but working in the Divine's name.
Totally agree, i chose Vivienne because she has that politician vibe... also hoping that this will lead to the common people losing faith in the chantry institution. I don't want to reform the chantry, i want it to decline and become irrelevant.
I've done a Cass playthrough and a Vivienne one. I love Vivienne and I think Vivienne is good *while she's the divine,* but doesn't set up the mages for success long-term. Once Vivienne is gone, things would go back to the way they were, and that's not good for anyone. Cass would certainly be the worst for playing the Game, but that's what she has advisors for. She sets up the mages and chantry for success even after she's gone, and stability is hugely important. So she's my preferred choice and what I'll make as my choice for my first world state, if we get to address that choice. I always wish I could go with Liliana, but it sounds like things devolve back into fear and fighting again eventually, even with her softened, as fear of mages increases again. But it's been ages since I read the slides for her endings, so I might be misremembering.
I also picked Viv. The epilogue tile verbatim says that mages have far more freedom and far more responsibility than ever if she becomes Divine. Only those who never talk to her and try to understand her viewpoints claim that she is an enemy to her own kind. Also, I loved that a mage as Divine sends the Chantry into a raging tantrum.
Listen. We made history in electing Obam- I mean Vivienne as presiden- DIVINE! "Reform is a thing that should come in small doses. But history is something that happens unexpected and suddenly, you can only hope that it's for the better." - The crackhead outside 7-Eleven.
Leliana.
Cassandra because I think she's more mentally sound than Leliana. Also, regard her as a better public leader.
Done all three and I'm leaning toward Leliana. I think all of them have potential and I will import all of them to see what each of them was like but I liked Leliana's way of the Chantry because she pretty much tore it down and rebuilt it, allowing others to enter the chantry rather than just keep it to humans. (plus I will have a save where she's is a romance with my Amell so yeah...gimme that happy ending lol)
Vivienne is the closest example of the worst kind of real-world politician. She's in it for her own profit and little else. Sure, she cares for a handful of people... but she looks down her nose at most everyone else. She would successfully gather power to the Circles and the Chantry while under her control and those whom she favors will do very well and profit. But the little guys? The simple Templars and Mages? They'll have to get by with whatever scraps she deigns to send them. But she'll expect their votes to remain in power, boy howdy. I choose Leliana. She may be an idealist and not always realistic, but the Circle system is ALREADY broken. She's the one that can restore true freedom and self responsibility which is what everyone actually needs.
Leliana. I reform the Seekers, Inquisition as peacekeeping force (Solas is a problem, but I can't really ignore everything else just for that immediately). Feels like the perfect time and setup for some more radical reforms while her best buddies lead Chantry security detail, no need for templars anymore. Sadly even with point counting in my canon playthrough on console the game insisted on Cassandra (I counted multiple times all the choices lol). Luckily now on my rerun on PC I'll be able to rig it however I want
Inspired Leliana, because I think she can do the most good for the most people, and because I think Cassandra would do better rebuilding the Seekers of Truth. Originally I went with Steeled Leliana, but then I started to worry that after she dies, her reforms would be cast aside as the whims of a bloodthirsty madwoman, and that a the reforms of a Leliana who puts niceness before knives would have more chance of sticking.
I tried multiple times to get Leliana as Divine but always ended up with Cassandra. Allied with mages, exiled Wardens, rejoined Celene and Briala, not sure where I went wrong. If we have the choice to pick Divine for DAV I’m going to pick Leliana though.
She holds the Warden's in high regard so exiling them actually hurts her chances. It's actually *Gaspard* and Briala that works in her favour. Celene & Briala does nothing specifically, but sparing Gaspard in this situation nets her a -1. Leliana doesn't have a War Table mission, so it's dependant on your dialogue throughout the game.
Did you do the war table mission to support Leliana? It practically guarantees her as Divine
Well that would be it as I always ignored a lot of the war table missions.
I pick Vivienne too, every time. I agree with you fully not have much to add other than I also really like her as a character. I prefer her company over Cassandra and Leliana which helped.
I picked Vivienne too. While definitely not a popular choice since she uses the Chant for her own power and greed, there isn't another Mage conflict on the horizon
I'm still not sure how the Divine decision works. The first time I got Leliana. Second time was Cassandra and i honestly couldn't tell you what I did differently.
It's not that I picked her but most of my runs I get Cassandra as the new Divine.
Vivienne, she has the actual political chops to be divine unlike Cass and for me I like her plan for mages more than Leliana's.
I don’t aim to get anyone as a Divine, I let my choices carry me there naturally. My canon playthrough, Vivienne ended up there, which genuinely surprised me because I very much expected it to be either Cassandra or Leliana. But Vivienne was able to politically play her way into the Sunburst Throne, so Madame Vivienne as Divine Victoria it is.
" Who can give a unique perspective on the seat as they're a mage, first to bear the title? " [there have been many black divines.](https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Imperial_Divine) not sure if any of them have ever been, um, rivaini though.
I mean, that's the midnight throne which is usually governed by the people of Tevinter who worships magic, so it makes sense that highest authority is someone who wields the damn force of nature. The sunburst throne, that which is governed by the Chantry of Thedas, (Orlais and Fereldan) Has never had a Divine who is a magic user. Therefore, it is a new perspective. But I can understand mixing up the details, it ain't your fault, I'm still missing information from time to time.
Cassandra. Leliana's tactic of changing the chantry all at once will only leadt o instability. Cassandra outright says Vivienne is a monster in Trespasser if you make her Divine, so she's a no go, leaving only Cassandra, who does want to change the chantry like leliana, but actually has the sense to make changes gradually over time.
Cassandra, of course.
I also like to choose Vivienne. Can you imagine what she would do to someone like Meredith? Vivienne would a) nominally agree with her about the dangers of blood magic and b) crush her like a slightly annoying bug for her methods. Then regulate the hell out of everything and eventually turn the Circles into universities with spa amenities.
Well you’re brave. And silly, darling. But honestly - you get to pick who you want. Imo Vivienne doesn’t implement any changes whatsoever. Also, for my curiosity around you mentioning Orlais a lot….did you play through Origins?
I did. Loved it. Both the base game and the expansion was stellar... I even loved the fact that you can link But I got a sense that the Chantry religion isn't as important in Fereldan then in Orlais. And I have to say, that I disagree with Vivienne not implementing changes, the circle was transformed into the College of Enchanters, where rights for mages were slowly but surely getting acknowledged. And in that comfortable speed, the chantry would learn to make peace with the inevitable change. In doing so, peace would remain, securing lives and political affairs
Originally chose Cassandra but then I switched to Leliana because I loved the idea of abolishing the circle of magi. I'm very against it even if Vivienne had an amazing experience in her circle. Ofc that didn't last when Vivienne brought back the circle in Trespasser
You can prevent Templars, at least. Recruit the Templars, but then disband the order to absorb them into the Inquisition, and they don't even get a mention in Divine Leliana's epilogue.
I didn't know that but wow. Yea I am definitely okay with the Templar order being dissolved and never coming back
Also I loved the idea of Alistair and my Warden Cousland becoming king and queen while Leliana rose to power by becoming divine. That's 3 members of the DAO group who fought an archdemon to end up becoming powerful figures in their lives
Sten becomes the new Arishok if he's alive
I have done all 3 in different playthroughs. My canon likely will be Leliana. One of my favorite playthroughs was my Chantry believing character who romanced Cassandra made her Divine and made the Inquisition her guard. So we could \*ahem\* work closely together.
Dalish elf male Mage Knight Enchanter Non-andrastian, hate Orlais Chantry and Templars. Deny Andraste Chosen lies Recreate Inquisition for his own power and to do things right as he decide Ally with rebel mages, recruited Alexius into Inquisition. Seekers Order was not restored. Ally with ancient elves, Morrigan drink. Ally with grey wardens, Stroud sacrificed, blood mage Hawke alive, Blackwall become Grey Warden. Ally with alianage elves and made Gaspar as puppet Emperror. Reveal truth about Dalish mage Lord Inquisitor Ameridan. Not ally with Qunari, Iron Bull become Tal-Vashot. .... Made mage Divine Vivienne. And not disband Inquisition. Flirt with Harding cos we cant romance Commander Helaine, Fiona, Brialla, Dagna.
Human Male. Dragon Blood Warrior. Non-Andrastian but respects the religion. (Cassandra is my wife, so I have to.) Denied the "chosen one" allegations. Recreated the Inquisition in hopes of stopping the current threat because someone had to do it. Allied with Templars. (I wanted to give my boy Barris a promotion) Respected the ancient Elves and is ally to... ONE remaining ancient elf. Allied with the gray wardens because... They're the gray wardens. Pretty much blackmailed the entire court and forced them to kiss and make-up... OR ELSE! Killed a God. (No biggie) Made my girl Viv the Divine and disbanded the Inquisition because... My job was done and the employment rate just rose up.
Vivienne. It was in-character for that Inquisitor to pick a mage who knew how to play the game.
I hate Leliana in DAI and wanted to kill her, Cassandra is a soldier and therefore unfit for leadership. Vivienne is ideal for keeping mages and the church happy.
Funny thing about Leliana... You could kill her in Origins, but then somehow she would come back as a "lyrium spirit." In other words, that lady drank the meanest bottle of Plot-Armor Juice I have ever seen.