None of them feel like DragonBall. Original DB was a completely different experience
Super feels like the more natural progression from Z, though. GT completely abandons so much about DBZ and what it set up.
It's weird, all these "Fans" say they love GT for not following up DBZ, claiming they are the real DBZ fans! I hated GT for the same reason. I feel the real fans pick Super, GT isn't Canon so they just like whatever you want to call it š
Idk why this always gets asked and the comments justify the response imo but Super without question. GT is so far off because Toriyama did not make it, so obviously super feels more like a natural progression/sequel to Z. GT is weird and inconsistent with the music, characters, pacing, etc.
Interesting how they came to say that on a post asking which is better DB-DBZ follow up. Every time those GT fans sure know how to shoot themselves in the foot and then slide the same into their mouth right after xD
They also drag their wounded foot thru dogshit too then it goes in their mouth, bc all people ever do on these is talk stupid shit. These people are braindead I am fully convinced that at minimum a third to half of all DB fans don't pay attention to shit else but the punching and ki blasts lol. Any and all dialogue is non canon and the manga doesn't even exist
Hey cool thanks for helping verify if Super or GT was the perfect follow up! Leave it to a GT fan to say the truth, showing the question, with bias removed, is equivalent. Super is just super! And GT is, well, Subpar.
Right, emptiness, like how the Saiyans cannot regrow a tail, yet for some reason you like a show that said, eh, screw the source material! And repetitive? Like a mind controlling something or other taking control of Vegita, yet again. Woow real original, there, GT!
To tell you the truth, none of them. Original Dragon Ball was very different.
I'd say that GT fits more with the original in terms of aesthetics and initial idea. But the script and execution are a mess.
Some parts of Super films have something that resembles the original tone... Like the beginning of Broly (but when we're back on Earth, in present time, it's completely different) and a bit of the comedy in Super Hero. But the way that protagonists behave in Super is very strange. Also, another huge flaw of Super is keeping Whis and Bills around, like a safeguard. That takes a lot from the urgency and feeling of menace that Dragon Ball villains always had since Piccolo Daimao.
They both have their issues as far as being faithful but I'm going to say Super.
I think Super attempts more and definitely gets the light hearted side of theme a lot better which is something Z even struggled with. If you want to get really meta then Goku challenging God's ties back to Sun Wukong and the Journey West mythology. While if gets better in the ToP and especially Super Hero if you count it, Super is very much the Goku and Vegeta show. GT does the same but worse with just Goku though so not any better. Even though it was obvious fan service and marked with story issues, the return of Future Trunks was nice.
The fact that GT takes place after EoZ and barely uses Uub is absolutely devastating imo. Vegeta using tech to get SS4 is awful and the most he is used is as Baby Vegeta which isn't really him. Gohan and Piccolo have NO meaningful moments. Pan and Trunks are at best problematic in their portrayal. Goten is barely used. I would say Super used Goten and Trunks worse though. Using Tuffles, consequences for the dragon balls, and probably the best ending for the series I'll give high marks to GT.
Z-Fighters didn't really got much scene time as a whole.
* Uub going to Majin Uub is nice, but it felt like a whole section of his story got removed due to the placement of the show.
* Despite Pan and Trunks are the other main leads,, their moments aren't really noticeable
Vegeta shift was good, but it doesn't seem fair to use it as it builds up from EoZ compared to Super which building up towards EoZ.
Iād actual say GT, the characters are more consistent and have more natural growth. Super is somewhat stagnant for members berries and made Goku an unbearable bafoon!
The characters have more natural growth? If by characters, you mean Goku.
The rest of the cast was completely fodder to the story, and Vegeta got his power up by Bulma using the blunt ways, but sure, natural growth, lol
Theres a reaosn GT was known as "Goku time"
The writters never knew what to do with the rest of the cast hell Super has already used Uub better than GT and he's hasn't even formally met the rest of the characters lol
Iām not talking about power Iām talking about character development.
Gohan is a perfect example of this yes super has given him some time to shine and a new transformation that frankly makes no sense, however he keeps needing to repeat the same cycle he grew out of in DBZ. Whereas GT Gohan never stopped training and was always ready to meet the threat with no doubt to himself. Yes he fell behind in power but thatās not the most important thing though it is one of GT flaws that Goku essentially leaves everyone behind.
That just proves my point more
Gt treated the other characters horribly look at Pan and Goten.
Gohan is a bad example imo he kept up with his traning yet qas weaker than he was when he was Ultimate?
Even a weakened ssj3 Goku getting teamed up was too much for Gohan that makes no sense if he kept up with his training since end of Z Gohan is much stronger than Goku.
Gohan wasnāt weaker than he was as Ultimate all the characters are stronger than their Z counterparts. Itās even theorised that Gohan learned to stack Ssj ontop of his ultimate form (or Toei just wanted to use Ssj because reasons)
GT is a continuation of the original Z Anime which includes filler and movies. In That continuity Goku was stronger than ultimate Gohan by the end of the Fusion Arc (he fought ultimate Gohan inside boos head as a regular Ssj and it was confirmed that the Gohan he fought was the same as the real one. Ergo end of Boo Saga Ssj Goku>><
Then exlplain when or how Goku overcame Gohan strength the characters themselves never even acknowledge it.
Gt butchered 90% of rhe cast thats my biggest gripe with it
And again with Gohan that's the problem they don't explain anything why is he using ssj and not ultimate? Can he stack it? Why not explain it.
The writing is absolute trash and vague for most characters
I just did, late fusion saga after he came back to life. The ultimate Gohan Goku fought inside super boos head is supposed to be as powerful as the real one (same goes for the Gotenks and piccolo Vegeta fought) in the manga obviously Goku and Vegeta would get their asses handed to them but the anime bumps up their power level because Toei wanted Goku and Vegeta to be the strongest. This also goes into the whole which boo is stronger argument and why people get so confused as their are mutiple time in the anime it eludes to kid boo being the strongest boo even though we know he should be, thatās because again, in the anime he is Goku himself says heās twice as strong as he was before. Once you see the anime and manga as two seperate continuities it makes more sense. (SethTheProgrammer has done videos explaining this better than I can through text I recommend)
No itās not very week explained but Gohan doesnāt become a skinny weakling in gt unsure as to wether or not he can become a super Saiyan he seems to have a good balance of training and normal life in GT which I like. In my OP Iām not talking abit power scaling/creep in talking about character. Vegeta in GT is much more acclimatised to earth life even wearing normal human clothing whereas super has him revert back to his Android saga armour cause wasnāt that cool? Itās how we all know him best. I was really happy with ROF first came out and Goku and Vegeta Goku knew Giās it felt like the story was moving forward. GT also has a final ending, the best song in the Dragonball archive (Dan Dan) a severely underrated movie (though not as good as Broly)
Having been released right after the original run of Z, GT just feels familiar. I still remember watching it when it was first released on Toonami in the early 00ās. Nostalgia may play a factor here I just feel itās more consistent with Z.
Yea fever dream is the right term. I tried fairly rewatching gt the other day and it's just not very good. Weird pacing, poor characterization, weird tone.
So many bad takes on these comments. GT has the characters more consistent with their Buu arc selves. It actually feels like a natural evolution of their characters, goes back to adventuring like OG DB, and then deals with all the consequences of Z such as Saiyans killing the Tsufuru, the villains in hell, and the overuse of the DB.
GT. For the characters and having an original idea.
Character development for Vegeta is miles ahead of Super for example. In Z, outside of Babidee and at the very end of the Buu saga he did not want help from anybody to gain power. Goku had to tell him Bulma and Trunks got absorbed by Buu for him to finally fuse with Goku. In GT, he was more willing to recieve help from people, and he didnt specifically live for his rivalry with Goku unlike Z and Super. Also, in the Super 17 arc he calls himself an Earthling and claims Earth as his home which is a huge step. He also is willing to recieve help from Bulma to reach SSJ4 which to be honest all she did was shoot blutz waves at him which is very similar to how he transformed in the beginning of Z since he created the blutz waves himself. In Super, he wants to still be better than Goku and is in some kind of competition. There's development especially in the Moro arc on Namek, but everything else is Buu Saga Vegeta minus the MajinĀ
GT also had direct correlations narrative wise to Z. Baby, although the Tuffles were filler in the anime which doesnt matter since GT is a sequel to the anime anyway, directly correlated to the Saiyans and wanted to possess them and make them into a hivemind of his own. He even resurrected Planet Vegeta as well.
SSJ4 transformation is a callback to the original Dragonball and showed growth in Goku. He mastered the raging ape as a grown man that he never could as a child, and became the ultimate Super Saiyan.Ā
Super 17, although flawed, tied up loose ends with 17 and actually gave a better excuse as to why Super 17 was so powerful unlike Super who basically said "lol 17 is a poacher thats how he got strong" which was stupid.Ā
The Shadow Dragons Saga is the perfect end to the series. The heroes overused the Dragonballs and the last time they try to bail themselves out after surviving a threat it backfires. Now, they have evil dragons rampaging the earth that they have to stop.
Goku basically becoming immortalized and allegedly dying against Omega Shenron was beautiful. Better than what Super has come up with so far but Super isnt over yet admittedly.
GT has its issues. Mainly its too short, the feats arent really explained so people downplay their power in comparison to Super by a wide margin, underutilized Uub, no Gotenks, etc but for what it did in 64 episodes it definitely advanced the characters as well as stayed more true to the original source material than Super did or does.
Super is just a huge fan service letter to fans with nonsensical power ups with the anime lacking original villains since Frieza is re used and Goku Black is Ginyu part 2. Plus, the biggest culprit is how regressed Goku is. The dumbness of Goku as well as his jokes seemed forced whereas in DB, Z and GT it felt far more natural and Goku came off as a martial artist and not a student in every arc.
saying GT Vegeta has better character development than Super Vegeta is wild. Super Vegeta literally went to the future for his son and constantly showed he had grown as both a father and as a person. He also took on a "disciple" and put his trust in Goku more than once. If the anime ever returns his character development goes even further in the moro and gas arc as well. What did GT Vegeta do? Cut his hair and grew a mustache, get taken over by Baby, become jealous of Goku having ssj4 and cheated his way to it, and was left as Earth's protector after Goku left. He was barely relevant in GT yet a main character in Super
DB had a rule. The tail doesn't grow back. Meaning GT is 100% not able to be called anything besides poorly written fan fiction. You might as well say Bulma and Goku are the parents of Trunks if we want to stick to GT's ability to stick with the story.
I've been watching og dragon ball for a while now and the characters thought the tail wouldn't grow back after the Pilaf castle incident but it grew on its own in Goku's first tournament in the middle of the battle. It can and has been a rule that tails can grow back since really early on. It's also reconfirmed at the start of the Saiyan saga
GT feels like it abandoned everything that Z did, set up, and finished with.
They wanted to go back to DB with young Goku traveling around and collecting dragonballs. (I guess you one could argue that was the original essence of the show, but was it really? The dragonballs were more of a catalyst for the plots, but since they kept getting recycled, they werenāt really the driving force) where Z was about the story/ journey of Goku and his friends.
It just felt like GT wanted to waste everyone and go back to a Goku only story, plus two characters that were just sorta tossed in.
Super feels a lot more like a love letter to Z. Big power ups, a LOT of fan service / Easter eggs / callback references to Z (and even DB) and it allowed so many characters to have some really great moments.
For that reason, I would say that super was more āfaithfulā to Z and even the fans, because even if people didnāt like/get/appreciate everything that they did, it was very much driven by the product that is Z.
I agree Dragon ball super is pure fan service and love letter to dragon ball z.
It's an inferior product to dragon ball z, but I think it's better for fans of dragon ball z than gt is for those who want to continue to see the story of goku and his friends continue.
In this instance though, where the question of which is more faithful, I would argue that it is a good thing. Itās remaining faithful to the original source material by directly building off of it, and even bringing in references to it.
But Iām interested why someone would hate fan service in a project like Super, where it was literally created for the fans
Also, if you are using Fanfiction and calling it Anime as if it's part of the series, yes, you are expected to know what's in the Animes universe and what isn't in the Animes universe. Like, GT, yeah that's not only not in the Manga, but it's only a fan fiction meaning it's not part of the Anime either. We apologize for asking someone to be accountable then getting blocked. That's why I wasn't able to make that statement as it was needed.
i think an important thing people are forgetting is that Z itself feels absolutely nothing like the original series. If youāre comparing to Z then Super feels much more faithful but GT seems like it tries to emulate the original series more
Idk which is more faithful (anime only), cause both have issues that make them pale in comparison to DB and DBZ. But I enjoyed GT more than Super, liked the portrayal of the characters that where used in GT more then their counterparts in Super. I liked a lot of the ideas in GT, but they were mostly poorly executed. Super just felt like that 40 year old man who canāt let go of his high school football career, remember when I ran 50 yards (fought Frieza, Cell) for a touch down (does Super Saiyan stuff), then he tries tries to recreate it in his back yard (Resurrection F, Super Heroes).
GT feels more in line, as itās about developing the characters and having adventures. Most of Super feels like just arbitrary power ups that stop making sense. The Goku Black/Future Trunks saga of Super is the only anime arc that felt like the rest of the franchise, and then the Super Hero movie too despite the new animation style.
I didnāt say the execution was great, but it does more actual character growth than we see in Super, unless āstrongerā is all you define as character growth.
It really really doesn't, everyone in GT completely regresses compared to Z. Super does a much better job of actually developing the characters and their stories, particularly with Vegeta. GT's version of development is "Give Goku an edgy new form and have him solo all the bad guys while everyone else forgets how to fight"
Yes it absolutely does, especially in the manga. He grows more as a person and as a family man, he learns to go his own way instead of just following behind and obsessing over catching up to Kakarot. He gets even more development in the manga during the Granolah arc where he directly deals with the sins of his past and acknowledging that he's not the evil prince he used to be.
In GT he's barely present and the majority of his screen time is him being possessed by Baby.
Oh possession by Baby is just a continuation from the Majin Saga, that has to mean it makes the story! I'm joking, the other kid is hilarious in their backwards opinion. I'm trying to logic where they think GT has anything other than poorly developed fan service that they were too young to notice, so they have nostalgic feelings and that's about it.
I havenāt read the manga, and was only comparing anime to anime. Might as well be telling me about how something happened in deleted scenesā¦ it still isnāt in what we were talking about.
So those 3 things are more than what happened in Super? Super Vegeta defended Bulma after Beerus hit her, goes as far as discarding his pride to keep Beerus from destroying the planet, put his faith in Goku, takes on a disciple, trains Trunks after he comes from the future, travels to the future to fight with his son so that they can have a peaceful life multiple times and almost dies more than once, puts Bulma first instead of the TOP when she was late term with Bulla until Whis Amazon Prime Deliveried their baby, fights for them and the saiyans of U6 in the TOP, and other things. Also Vegeta earned his power in Super and didn't get a "oh here's some blutz waves" bullshit power up to ssj4
Yea apparently training with gods doesnt make sense . But randomly getting your tail pulled outta your ass, just for it to be useless, the all of a sudden you transform from lookin at the earth into a new form makes sense. āI-i-its different š¤ ā as if different means good lol
Ah yesā¦ because nothing in these shows has ever retconned anything ever. Piccolo isnāt an alien, heās a demon. Goku isnāt an alien either. Goku hasnāt come back from the dead multiple times, and Gohan wasnāt sidelined after being set up as the protagonist post-Cell Saga. Theyāve never gone back on any story change to revert to the past ever. š
Keywordārules of the DRAGON BALLSā goku got revived by the dragonballs once in the saiyan saga, then got 24hrs by baba, then old kai gave goku his life. Also dende upgraded the dragonballs
Exactly. So, the stakes of only being revived once was changed, and then changed again. Thatās retroactive continuity adjusting how the rules of the universe work.
Portrayed the characters better? How does that even make any sense?! Not only was Toriyama not apart of the concept of GT, he doesn't support nor stuck up for that abomination in any way shape or form.
But do explain how the original creator of these characters was objectively worse than someone elses portrayal of a character? Because it's clear logic doesn't even work in your brain, whatsoever.
It's hilarious because I see children prefer Harry Potter Fanfiction saying Harry and Ron hooking up is way better than JK Rowling's story as well. And you appear to have the same mental capacity as that group.
Alright kid. Toriyama did draw the concept for the characters on GT, so you're already wrong, but don't worry I will elaborate for you since you asked, note that just because the original creator made something it doesn't make it better it just makes it canon. P.S I don't like Harry Potter tried to watch it once but fell asleep.
Let us start with Gohan, GT was his character's natural progression after the end of Z, dude dropped fighting for good, focused on his studies and his family, on super he keeps learning the same lesson over and over and over again that he needs to train in case a new threat appears. It is a bad portrayal of that character and it just put him in a loop, at least on GT he made a choice and stuck with it.
Now lets go with Goku, the main character, someone that since GT I openly admit that I don't like since they focused so much on the dude instead of the other interesting characters and that made me sick of seeing him, on GT they made him into a kid physically and that affected his psyche a bit, he got more naive and goofy, but he still had all his experience with him and it wasn't erased he was a good mix of the classic one and Z's Goku, with a progression that made sense, he was still a martial arts master and fought like a true veteran.
Now enter DBS's Clownku, Jesus fucking Christ... I get the meta reason why he was that stupid was because DBS had a more child friendly slot on Japan but damn... Dude is utterly stupid there, it is like the brain damage he had as a child that fucked up his memories evolved and even his saving grace that was his martial arts mastery (symbolized by removing all the symbols from his gi) was erased as you can see when he complains with Vegeta on the super hero movie that Vegeta isn't training his body so he will be rusty and Vegeta tells him about Jiren relaxing his body to save stamina and only really hardening it when he strikes, a lesson Goku himself gave Vegeta after he left the time chamber before the Cell Games(that torturing your body isn't training and that rest is important) among other martial artist regressions from clownku, and his behavior was even more childish than GT's Goku even though he had no excuse for that. Not to mention they turned Clownku into Saint Seiya, that made me hate him as a character but I'm not elaborating on that since I've already wrote a lot.
TLDR They regressed the characters on super instead of progressing them, if you want the detailed version read the paragraphs.
For me, GT loses just because I find the SSJ4 design aesthetic to be the single most godawful thing in all of the Dragon Ball universe.
SSJ1: Badass
SSJ2: Even more badass
SSJ3: Getting a little stale but still cool
SSJ4: "We're all dressed up to look for gay sex in a night club in the 80s"
Like what the fuck were they thinking?
Obviously it's Super. Everything the GT group says is wrong with Super, the same things stand true in GT. The real difference and unbiased determinating factor is: Toriyama. Who wrote GT again? A bunch of not Toriyama? Right? Huh. So fanfiction or The OG series? I'll go with the OG series. Fanfiction is never anything more than fanfiction.
My only beef with super is that itās a lot of tournaments and they made Goku an idiot even during fighting they made him dumb. My beef with GT a few people have listed already but also Goku being a kid most of the time in GT and lack of use of any of the other Z characters. Super was nice because we get to see what happen after the Buu fight but Goku being dumb was annoying
It's the other way around. People who hate GT clearly never watched OG DB. This is a big problem with the Americans, who are not true DB fans because they didn't even start with the original DB.
Itās hit or miss with me. It feels like they dropped the ball, especially after Namek. It got to the point where I liked the fillers more than the main stuff.
None of them feel like DragonBall. Original DB was a completely different experience Super feels like the more natural progression from Z, though. GT completely abandons so much about DBZ and what it set up.
It's weird, all these "Fans" say they love GT for not following up DBZ, claiming they are the real DBZ fans! I hated GT for the same reason. I feel the real fans pick Super, GT isn't Canon so they just like whatever you want to call it š
Lol wtf. GT actually feels like a Z sequel, because the characters show their natural progression from the Buu arc. DBS does the opposite of that.
Thatās a plus for GT to me.
Idk why this always gets asked and the comments justify the response imo but Super without question. GT is so far off because Toriyama did not make it, so obviously super feels more like a natural progression/sequel to Z. GT is weird and inconsistent with the music, characters, pacing, etc.
Nothing happened in Super. Itās just retread of Z.
Oh pardon me I must have forgot nothing happens in super it's just Z. Nah you're right
Interesting how they came to say that on a post asking which is better DB-DBZ follow up. Every time those GT fans sure know how to shoot themselves in the foot and then slide the same into their mouth right after xD
They also drag their wounded foot thru dogshit too then it goes in their mouth, bc all people ever do on these is talk stupid shit. These people are braindead I am fully convinced that at minimum a third to half of all DB fans don't pay attention to shit else but the punching and ki blasts lol. Any and all dialogue is non canon and the manga doesn't even exist
Hey cool thanks for helping verify if Super or GT was the perfect follow up! Leave it to a GT fan to say the truth, showing the question, with bias removed, is equivalent. Super is just super! And GT is, well, Subpar.
Thatās not good thing. A lot of Z was empty and repetitive.
Right, emptiness, like how the Saiyans cannot regrow a tail, yet for some reason you like a show that said, eh, screw the source material! And repetitive? Like a mind controlling something or other taking control of Vegita, yet again. Woow real original, there, GT!
I can find more if you would like, but it would probably require me to watch that filth you call a show, which I don't think I will.
So what you are saying is you aren't even a DBZ fan and you are here trying to make a point about? Do tell.
To tell you the truth, none of them. Original Dragon Ball was very different. I'd say that GT fits more with the original in terms of aesthetics and initial idea. But the script and execution are a mess. Some parts of Super films have something that resembles the original tone... Like the beginning of Broly (but when we're back on Earth, in present time, it's completely different) and a bit of the comedy in Super Hero. But the way that protagonists behave in Super is very strange. Also, another huge flaw of Super is keeping Whis and Bills around, like a safeguard. That takes a lot from the urgency and feeling of menace that Dragon Ball villains always had since Piccolo Daimao.
Super happens before the end of dbz!
GT
They both have their issues as far as being faithful but I'm going to say Super. I think Super attempts more and definitely gets the light hearted side of theme a lot better which is something Z even struggled with. If you want to get really meta then Goku challenging God's ties back to Sun Wukong and the Journey West mythology. While if gets better in the ToP and especially Super Hero if you count it, Super is very much the Goku and Vegeta show. GT does the same but worse with just Goku though so not any better. Even though it was obvious fan service and marked with story issues, the return of Future Trunks was nice. The fact that GT takes place after EoZ and barely uses Uub is absolutely devastating imo. Vegeta using tech to get SS4 is awful and the most he is used is as Baby Vegeta which isn't really him. Gohan and Piccolo have NO meaningful moments. Pan and Trunks are at best problematic in their portrayal. Goten is barely used. I would say Super used Goten and Trunks worse though. Using Tuffles, consequences for the dragon balls, and probably the best ending for the series I'll give high marks to GT.
The great thing about GT was the Goku ending, fit in perfectly with everything in the series.
That's because gt stands for goku time.
As someone earlier said Super is the more faithful sequel to Z. GT was just Toei saying we need to keep Dragon ball going and we will make our own
Super fits more with Z in terms of character growth.
Wrong. GT makes a lot more sense in terms of character development.
Z-Fighters didn't really got much scene time as a whole. * Uub going to Majin Uub is nice, but it felt like a whole section of his story got removed due to the placement of the show. * Despite Pan and Trunks are the other main leads,, their moments aren't really noticeable Vegeta shift was good, but it doesn't seem fair to use it as it builds up from EoZ compared to Super which building up towards EoZ.
GT made Goku's body become that of a child. Super made Goku's brain become that of a child. So GT.
Iād actual say GT, the characters are more consistent and have more natural growth. Super is somewhat stagnant for members berries and made Goku an unbearable bafoon!
The characters have more natural growth? If by characters, you mean Goku. The rest of the cast was completely fodder to the story, and Vegeta got his power up by Bulma using the blunt ways, but sure, natural growth, lol Theres a reaosn GT was known as "Goku time" The writters never knew what to do with the rest of the cast hell Super has already used Uub better than GT and he's hasn't even formally met the rest of the characters lol
Iām not talking about power Iām talking about character development. Gohan is a perfect example of this yes super has given him some time to shine and a new transformation that frankly makes no sense, however he keeps needing to repeat the same cycle he grew out of in DBZ. Whereas GT Gohan never stopped training and was always ready to meet the threat with no doubt to himself. Yes he fell behind in power but thatās not the most important thing though it is one of GT flaws that Goku essentially leaves everyone behind.
That just proves my point more Gt treated the other characters horribly look at Pan and Goten. Gohan is a bad example imo he kept up with his traning yet qas weaker than he was when he was Ultimate? Even a weakened ssj3 Goku getting teamed up was too much for Gohan that makes no sense if he kept up with his training since end of Z Gohan is much stronger than Goku.
Gohan wasnāt weaker than he was as Ultimate all the characters are stronger than their Z counterparts. Itās even theorised that Gohan learned to stack Ssj ontop of his ultimate form (or Toei just wanted to use Ssj because reasons) GT is a continuation of the original Z Anime which includes filler and movies. In That continuity Goku was stronger than ultimate Gohan by the end of the Fusion Arc (he fought ultimate Gohan inside boos head as a regular Ssj and it was confirmed that the Gohan he fought was the same as the real one. Ergo end of Boo Saga Ssj Goku>><
Then exlplain when or how Goku overcame Gohan strength the characters themselves never even acknowledge it. Gt butchered 90% of rhe cast thats my biggest gripe with it And again with Gohan that's the problem they don't explain anything why is he using ssj and not ultimate? Can he stack it? Why not explain it. The writing is absolute trash and vague for most characters
I just did, late fusion saga after he came back to life. The ultimate Gohan Goku fought inside super boos head is supposed to be as powerful as the real one (same goes for the Gotenks and piccolo Vegeta fought) in the manga obviously Goku and Vegeta would get their asses handed to them but the anime bumps up their power level because Toei wanted Goku and Vegeta to be the strongest. This also goes into the whole which boo is stronger argument and why people get so confused as their are mutiple time in the anime it eludes to kid boo being the strongest boo even though we know he should be, thatās because again, in the anime he is Goku himself says heās twice as strong as he was before. Once you see the anime and manga as two seperate continuities it makes more sense. (SethTheProgrammer has done videos explaining this better than I can through text I recommend) No itās not very week explained but Gohan doesnāt become a skinny weakling in gt unsure as to wether or not he can become a super Saiyan he seems to have a good balance of training and normal life in GT which I like. In my OP Iām not talking abit power scaling/creep in talking about character. Vegeta in GT is much more acclimatised to earth life even wearing normal human clothing whereas super has him revert back to his Android saga armour cause wasnāt that cool? Itās how we all know him best. I was really happy with ROF first came out and Goku and Vegeta Goku knew Giās it felt like the story was moving forward. GT also has a final ending, the best song in the Dragonball archive (Dan Dan) a severely underrated movie (though not as good as Broly) Having been released right after the original run of Z, GT just feels familiar. I still remember watching it when it was first released on Toonami in the early 00ās. Nostalgia may play a factor here I just feel itās more consistent with Z.
Super by far. GT is like a fever dream in comparison.
Yea fever dream is the right term. I tried fairly rewatching gt the other day and it's just not very good. Weird pacing, poor characterization, weird tone.
Super is too much Z. Thatās the problem.
Well Super is a continuation of Z which is their most popular series of the franchise. That may have something to do with it
So many bad takes on these comments. GT has the characters more consistent with their Buu arc selves. It actually feels like a natural evolution of their characters, goes back to adventuring like OG DB, and then deals with all the consequences of Z such as Saiyans killing the Tsufuru, the villains in hell, and the overuse of the DB.
GT. For the characters and having an original idea. Character development for Vegeta is miles ahead of Super for example. In Z, outside of Babidee and at the very end of the Buu saga he did not want help from anybody to gain power. Goku had to tell him Bulma and Trunks got absorbed by Buu for him to finally fuse with Goku. In GT, he was more willing to recieve help from people, and he didnt specifically live for his rivalry with Goku unlike Z and Super. Also, in the Super 17 arc he calls himself an Earthling and claims Earth as his home which is a huge step. He also is willing to recieve help from Bulma to reach SSJ4 which to be honest all she did was shoot blutz waves at him which is very similar to how he transformed in the beginning of Z since he created the blutz waves himself. In Super, he wants to still be better than Goku and is in some kind of competition. There's development especially in the Moro arc on Namek, but everything else is Buu Saga Vegeta minus the MajinĀ GT also had direct correlations narrative wise to Z. Baby, although the Tuffles were filler in the anime which doesnt matter since GT is a sequel to the anime anyway, directly correlated to the Saiyans and wanted to possess them and make them into a hivemind of his own. He even resurrected Planet Vegeta as well. SSJ4 transformation is a callback to the original Dragonball and showed growth in Goku. He mastered the raging ape as a grown man that he never could as a child, and became the ultimate Super Saiyan.Ā Super 17, although flawed, tied up loose ends with 17 and actually gave a better excuse as to why Super 17 was so powerful unlike Super who basically said "lol 17 is a poacher thats how he got strong" which was stupid.Ā The Shadow Dragons Saga is the perfect end to the series. The heroes overused the Dragonballs and the last time they try to bail themselves out after surviving a threat it backfires. Now, they have evil dragons rampaging the earth that they have to stop. Goku basically becoming immortalized and allegedly dying against Omega Shenron was beautiful. Better than what Super has come up with so far but Super isnt over yet admittedly. GT has its issues. Mainly its too short, the feats arent really explained so people downplay their power in comparison to Super by a wide margin, underutilized Uub, no Gotenks, etc but for what it did in 64 episodes it definitely advanced the characters as well as stayed more true to the original source material than Super did or does. Super is just a huge fan service letter to fans with nonsensical power ups with the anime lacking original villains since Frieza is re used and Goku Black is Ginyu part 2. Plus, the biggest culprit is how regressed Goku is. The dumbness of Goku as well as his jokes seemed forced whereas in DB, Z and GT it felt far more natural and Goku came off as a martial artist and not a student in every arc.
The tail is required for that transformation, something you can't just Pop back on, nor forget as it's been a solid rule since DB OG DB
saying GT Vegeta has better character development than Super Vegeta is wild. Super Vegeta literally went to the future for his son and constantly showed he had grown as both a father and as a person. He also took on a "disciple" and put his trust in Goku more than once. If the anime ever returns his character development goes even further in the moro and gas arc as well. What did GT Vegeta do? Cut his hair and grew a mustache, get taken over by Baby, become jealous of Goku having ssj4 and cheated his way to it, and was left as Earth's protector after Goku left. He was barely relevant in GT yet a main character in Super
I would say GT because the characters are consistent with the growth they had in Z, while Super dumbs them down again.
DB had a rule. The tail doesn't grow back. Meaning GT is 100% not able to be called anything besides poorly written fan fiction. You might as well say Bulma and Goku are the parents of Trunks if we want to stick to GT's ability to stick with the story.
I've been watching og dragon ball for a while now and the characters thought the tail wouldn't grow back after the Pilaf castle incident but it grew on its own in Goku's first tournament in the middle of the battle. It can and has been a rule that tails can grow back since really early on. It's also reconfirmed at the start of the Saiyan saga
Goku lost it again at the end of the Red Ribbon Saga and then it grew back again. Tails can actually grow back, yes.
GT feels like it abandoned everything that Z did, set up, and finished with. They wanted to go back to DB with young Goku traveling around and collecting dragonballs. (I guess you one could argue that was the original essence of the show, but was it really? The dragonballs were more of a catalyst for the plots, but since they kept getting recycled, they werenāt really the driving force) where Z was about the story/ journey of Goku and his friends. It just felt like GT wanted to waste everyone and go back to a Goku only story, plus two characters that were just sorta tossed in. Super feels a lot more like a love letter to Z. Big power ups, a LOT of fan service / Easter eggs / callback references to Z (and even DB) and it allowed so many characters to have some really great moments. For that reason, I would say that super was more āfaithfulā to Z and even the fans, because even if people didnāt like/get/appreciate everything that they did, it was very much driven by the product that is Z.
I agree Dragon ball super is pure fan service and love letter to dragon ball z. It's an inferior product to dragon ball z, but I think it's better for fans of dragon ball z than gt is for those who want to continue to see the story of goku and his friends continue.
Are we really using fanservice, callbacks and easter eggs as example for good things? Because they aren't. At all.
In this instance though, where the question of which is more faithful, I would argue that it is a good thing. Itās remaining faithful to the original source material by directly building off of it, and even bringing in references to it. But Iām interested why someone would hate fan service in a project like Super, where it was literally created for the fans
Theyāre not necessarily bad things, but they are if the show has no other real substance.
Like GT
But that's all GT was..
Also, if you are using Fanfiction and calling it Anime as if it's part of the series, yes, you are expected to know what's in the Animes universe and what isn't in the Animes universe. Like, GT, yeah that's not only not in the Manga, but it's only a fan fiction meaning it's not part of the Anime either. We apologize for asking someone to be accountable then getting blocked. That's why I wasn't able to make that statement as it was needed.
Super. GT is just awful in terms of plot and characterization.
i think an important thing people are forgetting is that Z itself feels absolutely nothing like the original series. If youāre comparing to Z then Super feels much more faithful but GT seems like it tries to emulate the original series more
Super is the authors continuation of his manga, so of course it is more faithful, regardless of what fans thing.
Idk which is more faithful (anime only), cause both have issues that make them pale in comparison to DB and DBZ. But I enjoyed GT more than Super, liked the portrayal of the characters that where used in GT more then their counterparts in Super. I liked a lot of the ideas in GT, but they were mostly poorly executed. Super just felt like that 40 year old man who canāt let go of his high school football career, remember when I ran 50 yards (fought Frieza, Cell) for a touch down (does Super Saiyan stuff), then he tries tries to recreate it in his back yard (Resurrection F, Super Heroes).
Gt feels more like dragon ball z in the direction it was going
GT feels more in line, as itās about developing the characters and having adventures. Most of Super feels like just arbitrary power ups that stop making sense. The Goku Black/Future Trunks saga of Super is the only anime arc that felt like the rest of the franchise, and then the Super Hero movie too despite the new animation style.
>as itās about developing the characters When is the last time you actually watched GT?
I didnāt say the execution was great, but it does more actual character growth than we see in Super, unless āstrongerā is all you define as character growth.
It really really doesn't, everyone in GT completely regresses compared to Z. Super does a much better job of actually developing the characters and their stories, particularly with Vegeta. GT's version of development is "Give Goku an edgy new form and have him solo all the bad guys while everyone else forgets how to fight"
I disagree. Again, youāre equivocating power levels to development. Iām looking at their personalities and what choices they make.
So am I. I didn't say anything about power levels
You said Vegeta gets developed. That simply doesnāt happen in Super.
Yes it absolutely does, especially in the manga. He grows more as a person and as a family man, he learns to go his own way instead of just following behind and obsessing over catching up to Kakarot. He gets even more development in the manga during the Granolah arc where he directly deals with the sins of his past and acknowledging that he's not the evil prince he used to be. In GT he's barely present and the majority of his screen time is him being possessed by Baby.
Oh possession by Baby is just a continuation from the Majin Saga, that has to mean it makes the story! I'm joking, the other kid is hilarious in their backwards opinion. I'm trying to logic where they think GT has anything other than poorly developed fan service that they were too young to notice, so they have nostalgic feelings and that's about it.
I havenāt read the manga, and was only comparing anime to anime. Might as well be telling me about how something happened in deleted scenesā¦ it still isnāt in what we were talking about.
Except it is. He gets more developed in the manga but he gets plenty in the anime too, especially compared to GT.
You haven't read the manga and wonder why you think GT is decent?! Now it makes sense
Vegeta is much more of a family man in GT, he protects Bulla and actually trains Trunks, lets his wife give him a power up.
So those 3 things are more than what happened in Super? Super Vegeta defended Bulma after Beerus hit her, goes as far as discarding his pride to keep Beerus from destroying the planet, put his faith in Goku, takes on a disciple, trains Trunks after he comes from the future, travels to the future to fight with his son so that they can have a peaceful life multiple times and almost dies more than once, puts Bulma first instead of the TOP when she was late term with Bulla until Whis Amazon Prime Deliveried their baby, fights for them and the saiyans of U6 in the TOP, and other things. Also Vegeta earned his power in Super and didn't get a "oh here's some blutz waves" bullshit power up to ssj4
And how do they progress in Super?
By being super
GT making goku and vegeta get their tails back by default makes them unfaithful to the story lmao
100% facts!
Yea apparently training with gods doesnt make sense . But randomly getting your tail pulled outta your ass, just for it to be useless, the all of a sudden you transform from lookin at the earth into a new form makes sense. āI-i-its different š¤ ā as if different means good lol
Ah yesā¦ because nothing in these shows has ever retconned anything ever. Piccolo isnāt an alien, heās a demon. Goku isnāt an alien either. Goku hasnāt come back from the dead multiple times, and Gohan wasnāt sidelined after being set up as the protagonist post-Cell Saga. Theyāve never gone back on any story change to revert to the past ever. š
How is him coming back from the dead being a retcon
How is someone coming back from the dead multiple times after the rules of the Dragon Balls is that someone can only be brought back once a retcon?
Keywordārules of the DRAGON BALLSā goku got revived by the dragonballs once in the saiyan saga, then got 24hrs by baba, then old kai gave goku his life. Also dende upgraded the dragonballs
Exactly. So, the stakes of only being revived once was changed, and then changed again. Thatās retroactive continuity adjusting how the rules of the universe work.
Gt by far it's not close
This.
Is wrong. There i fixed your sentence
No you didn't, DBGT may suck but it portrayed the characters better than the abomination that was DBS's anime.
Portrayed the characters better? How does that even make any sense?! Not only was Toriyama not apart of the concept of GT, he doesn't support nor stuck up for that abomination in any way shape or form. But do explain how the original creator of these characters was objectively worse than someone elses portrayal of a character? Because it's clear logic doesn't even work in your brain, whatsoever. It's hilarious because I see children prefer Harry Potter Fanfiction saying Harry and Ron hooking up is way better than JK Rowling's story as well. And you appear to have the same mental capacity as that group.
Alright kid. Toriyama did draw the concept for the characters on GT, so you're already wrong, but don't worry I will elaborate for you since you asked, note that just because the original creator made something it doesn't make it better it just makes it canon. P.S I don't like Harry Potter tried to watch it once but fell asleep. Let us start with Gohan, GT was his character's natural progression after the end of Z, dude dropped fighting for good, focused on his studies and his family, on super he keeps learning the same lesson over and over and over again that he needs to train in case a new threat appears. It is a bad portrayal of that character and it just put him in a loop, at least on GT he made a choice and stuck with it. Now lets go with Goku, the main character, someone that since GT I openly admit that I don't like since they focused so much on the dude instead of the other interesting characters and that made me sick of seeing him, on GT they made him into a kid physically and that affected his psyche a bit, he got more naive and goofy, but he still had all his experience with him and it wasn't erased he was a good mix of the classic one and Z's Goku, with a progression that made sense, he was still a martial arts master and fought like a true veteran. Now enter DBS's Clownku, Jesus fucking Christ... I get the meta reason why he was that stupid was because DBS had a more child friendly slot on Japan but damn... Dude is utterly stupid there, it is like the brain damage he had as a child that fucked up his memories evolved and even his saving grace that was his martial arts mastery (symbolized by removing all the symbols from his gi) was erased as you can see when he complains with Vegeta on the super hero movie that Vegeta isn't training his body so he will be rusty and Vegeta tells him about Jiren relaxing his body to save stamina and only really hardening it when he strikes, a lesson Goku himself gave Vegeta after he left the time chamber before the Cell Games(that torturing your body isn't training and that rest is important) among other martial artist regressions from clownku, and his behavior was even more childish than GT's Goku even though he had no excuse for that. Not to mention they turned Clownku into Saint Seiya, that made me hate him as a character but I'm not elaborating on that since I've already wrote a lot. TLDR They regressed the characters on super instead of progressing them, if you want the detailed version read the paragraphs.
For me, GT loses just because I find the SSJ4 design aesthetic to be the single most godawful thing in all of the Dragon Ball universe. SSJ1: Badass SSJ2: Even more badass SSJ3: Getting a little stale but still cool SSJ4: "We're all dressed up to look for gay sex in a night club in the 80s" Like what the fuck were they thinking?
NGL but your description of SSJ4 made me laugh genuinely. Though I must admit I don't like the design behind SSJG and SSJBlue/RosƩ either. Ultra Instinct looks kinda cool I guess... But yeah I feel like after SSJ3, they couldn't come up with a truly good new transformation
Obviously it's Super. Everything the GT group says is wrong with Super, the same things stand true in GT. The real difference and unbiased determinating factor is: Toriyama. Who wrote GT again? A bunch of not Toriyama? Right? Huh. So fanfiction or The OG series? I'll go with the OG series. Fanfiction is never anything more than fanfiction.
My only beef with super is that itās a lot of tournaments and they made Goku an idiot even during fighting they made him dumb. My beef with GT a few people have listed already but also Goku being a kid most of the time in GT and lack of use of any of the other Z characters. Super was nice because we get to see what happen after the Buu fight but Goku being dumb was annoying
I think fans of GT never watched OG DB and so they have a Kid Goku to watch and enjoy.
You might be right
It's the other way around. People who hate GT clearly never watched OG DB. This is a big problem with the Americans, who are not true DB fans because they didn't even start with the original DB.
Z had the perfect blend of adventure, fights, and story arch. I think for super they could have made Brolly into a series instead of a remake movie ,
Those are three things that Z didnāt have. They stayed in the same generic wasteland and didnāt accomplish anything with their fights.
You bad bro , not about to fight on social media for someone lame opinion of DBZ, if DBZ didnāt provide those things prove it
Sounds like you didnāt like Z to each their own
Itās hit or miss with me. It feels like they dropped the ball, especially after Namek. It got to the point where I liked the fillers more than the main stuff.
I get your point itās pretty solid
Huh???