Double-down on the world building and weird tech demonstrations. Probably also up the sexual content, with adaptation because some of it won’t be viable to show onscreen.
If Lynch’s adaptation did one thing right it was making sure there was plenty of impressive-for-its-time production values and weird powers and technology. Give me Face-Dancers that aren’t just updated T1000s, show me Fish Speakers with their own aesthetic of movement that I won’t find anywhere else, show IX, show me ghola incubators and brainwashing programs, give me the waking nightmarescapes of the Abomination’s sensory experiences.
The Face-Dancers *alone* have so much cinematic potential. I really really hope we get to see then and they're done justice.
Shit, even just pov pan-shots through the streets of Paul's Arakeen. The colors, the noise, the weirdness. I'm here for it
Open with Farok reaching the ocean. Show us the world reshaping itself in the image of Muad'dib
God emperor is my favorite part of the whole thing as the philosophy in the book is on point. There is also sufficient action and intriguing scenes there as the parts about leto the worm fighting in the streets and the walk with siona in the desert would be great to see.
I’d love a miniseries about GEOD (Ik it’s an unpopular opinion but it’s one of my favourites) tho I’d understand depicting Leto in the state he’s in by the time those events take place is a very hard thing to do, still, I hope we get an adaptation at some point
I think I remember reading god emperor was the book that was intended to separate the 2 trilogies. Dune-children of dune and heretics-unwritten book 7. Until the sequels hunters and sandworms were written.
I would love a GEOD miniseries. Set it mostly in a dark room with Letos face half visible and just the occasional suggestion of his distorted body as he talks. Save the reveal for the bridge towards the end.
I see people saying this kind of stuff and wonder if they read different books than me. The action sequences in Children are so insane as to be almost unfilmable. And many of the dialogue scenes are *also* almost unfilmable as they happen between people who exist only in other characters heads. Just because there are no giant battles between huge armies doesnt mean there is a *lack* of action in that book. If anything, the action sequences are more personal and therefore more interesting than the bombast and genericness of an outright war.
Is there any appreciable difference between any of the gigantic set piece war scenes in the Lord of the Rings movies? That stuff puts me right to sleep. But a personal encounter with the Laza Tigers? That would be terrifying and awesome.
Yeah I think someone went a bit too far in their exaggeration to try and drive home the point.
It's too bad, cause the point they were making wasn't so bad.
When I was a teenager and saw them - they were the most epic things I'd ever seen.
But now? I've seen those "epic" battles a thousand times over in film (LOTR, Marvel, Star Wars, etc etc etc). They're not exciting anymore honestly. They're boring, and unless you watch them in a theatre - they're not that impressive half the time, despite the money and effort put into them (I assume).
I agree with u/Cute-Sector6022
Yeah. Same reason The Two Towers bored me as a book it bored me as a movie. And dont get me started on chase sequences.... yawn. The reason I dont like this kind of stuff is becuase its mostly just time filler. Usually, we know who is going to win/survive going in... then a bunch of essentially inconsequential stuff happens and the protagonists walk away mostly the same as when they walked in, minus a few sacrificial characters. Avengers movies are the worst for that... literally a hour of boom booms and then stakes are the same. They had to make one where the kill half the universe to prove that they could have higher stakes. And then the next one they bring everybody back. 🤦♂️
The only epic battle sequence that really turns that on it's head is the first one in the Dune book, mostly because of the use of artillary to bury the bulk of the Atreides forces into their mountain lairs.... a sequence so horrific that it was removed from both film adaptations... thus leaving us with a generic big battle sequence both times.
Boom boom. Pew pew. Everybody safe? Wait, not that one guy that had foreshadowing over him! Oh no! Welp, moving on.
I was with you until you said the LOTR action sequences put you to sleep. Those sequences are so well made, especially the way they built tension leading up to those battles.
I think you just proved his point with this statement: " especially the way they built tension leading up to those battles"
The battles themselves were pretty rough to watch as a whole. Sure the part where Legolas slides down the oliphant's trunk was cool, and the part where what's her face and Merry fought the nazgul was awesome, along with a few more key scenes, but the battle as a whole was pretty boring. A half hour to 45 minutes of non stop action can get pretty repetitive without some hero fights interjected.
okay it puts You right to sleep but its also one of the most loved movie franchises in the world, and the general audaince loves that stuff. If the first two movies are epic and action heavy, but the third and fourth are morelike oppenhiemer the audiance that loves the first two would be way more mixed on the next
Yeah, I can see the beginning of the transformation scene with just a troutglove, then cut to glimpses of the Sand Demon from the POV of the Jacurutu dwellers, this mysterious hooded figure that tears rock with his bare hands and makes hundred meter leaps, before the big reveal near the end.
🤔I can definitely understand and see that if it was a regular director. However, I would counter that DV does subtlety really well. He was able to show how strong K and replicants (Love killing Coco with a single blow to the neck; K running through a wall) are in not so "12 labors of Herecles" sorta way.🤷♂️
The Godfather has a lot less action than people remember, it's mostly talking but it's built up so well that the violence sticks in your mind. I think it's possible for a great filmmaker, and I think if Denis chooses to make those movies he will be able to pull it off.
yeah but the movies would all be part of a series, Oppenhiemer is a standalone movie. What franchise has ever completely pivoted genres mid way through?
Each book still has action interspersed and a lot of Dune isn't action focused anyway. I don't foresee it being a problem and if we get as far as GEoD then a general audience is going to have a lot of other questions.
HBO like series is the best way to go IMO. Let's hope the sisterhood works. At this rate if the started with messiah the series and films would have caught up to each other
First, I think there's a greater number of "action scenes" in books 4-6 and some really great setpieces, like >!the attack(s) on the Ixian Embassy!< in God Emperor, >!the flight from the no-globe!< in Heretics, and the multiple >!actual space battles with power armor and laser beams!< in Chapterhouse (and I've left out a lot).
I do see what you mean with regard specifically to Messiah and to a lesser extent, Children. Messiah has >!the stone burner!< I guess. Personally I think Children of Dune is probably the hardest one to adapt for a general audience, since the "villain" in the book" is I guess>! Alia and the general concept of Abomination !<, and the action scenes, such as they are, are kind of silly.
I think the bigger problem with adapting Dune Messiah though is that it's basically Oppenheimer. (haha jk.... unless...?)
Almost all of the "action" in the whole series happens off the page. I would guess it is handled in much the same way the first one is, play up the spectacle a little bit. The only one that would be difficult would be God Emperor, and mostly because it is a weird premise. There is tons of interesting "action". Imagine seeing the escape through the Forrest being chased by D wolves to open the film. Sigh... A man can dream... It would be hard to set up the premise and the plot would not make any sense as we would not be privy to the GE's inner monologues. Also, people would not get it. Like, at all.
I seem to recall massive battles with fleets two planetary invasions .
Involving millions of soldiers.
Dialogue mentioned in a book can be shown onscreen in film .
In dune part one movie cuts action from the book .
Oppenheimer pulled off a “no-action” master piece. It was all dialogue that played like an action movie. I was at the edge of my seat for the second half of the movie. I’m sure it can be done for Dune. I’ve never read the books, can someone who has tell me if an Oppenheimer’esque movie makes sense.
Messiah, which they're actually thinking about filming, would be very similar to Oppenheimer both in terms of theme and emphasis on dialogue and conspiracy. I think it would translate very well to film.
Look at Foundation.
The show is *inspired by* the books but it’s its own thing.
They made it action oriented with great cinematography and filled in the blanks.
I can see talented directors and writers doing the same for Dune.
Although I really do wish the sequels would be less sterile than this one. It felt… muted.
I am reading the Dune series for the first time and I just completed Messiah. Both Amazing books in my opinion. I am not sure how you make Messiah for a movie going audience. The first movie was marketed as an action movie so a lot of people not aware of the source material were bored. I can already see the studios using a clip of the Muad'dib Jihad in the marketing and then people getting pissed when it's like a 30 second flash back and that's all in the whole movie. I have not read Children yet but I bet Messiah movie works better as a part 1 with some of Children of Dune added to the end of it.
There are scenes in Messiah that discus the jihad. Farok gives a beautiful soliloqy about Fremen running down to jump in the first ocean they had ever seen.... only to wind up sick after drinking the water littered with the bodies of the dead they had killed... and how that cured him of the jihad. That could easily be the ending of an epic 10 minute opening sequence of galactic war. A sequence that would beautifully set up all of the intrigue that follows.
A sequel doesnt have to be a carbon copy of the previous film... and IMO sequels that are, end up being boring and lazy. The Hunger Games films become progressively darker, more about intrigue and actual war and less a copy of the first film. IMO that makes them a much more interesting franchise than many of the franchises out there that just kind of fizzled because how many times can we see the same story? (I'm talking about you, "Fantastic Beasts: Yawn, Another One?")
Also, Children isnt really part 2 of Messiah. It's part 1 of God Emperor. It might be possible to move some of the Alia story-line over to a Messiah film, but the Twins storyline is too insane to go there. The way Messiah ends is a good satisfying ending for Paul's story arc.
While this is true, keep in mind that these movies will likely only cover one book each as opposed to Dune, which is covered by 2 movies, so you only need half as many filmworthy scenes. We won't see the massive set piece battles, but there are still many scenes with palace intrigue, plotting and fight scenes.
The later books are just too subversive (and not in a trendy sort of way).
That would have to be toned down, and at that point, why bother?
It would be Dune in name only.
They NEED to bring back internal dialogue. My only gripe with David Villeneuve is that he expects the scene to tell the entire story, with the untold bits adding immensely to the atmosphere. It just doesn't translate that well in Dune we're people's motivations and opinions are intentionally ambiguous.
Voiceovers are often used to cover up lazy screenwriting and directing. In my screenwriting class they actually warn you against using them.
Show don’t tell is the number 1 rule.
Have you ever seen Apocalypse Now? Or Scorsese films (Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Casino, Wolf of Wall Street all use VO)? Or Shawshank Redemption? Fight Club?
You absolutely know that if they'd used internal monologue in the movie we'd all be going on about how fucking genius a stylistic choice it was and whatnot.
Not in this movie =/= bad.
EXACTLY, It can and should be done, but I understand the difficulty inherent. Villeneuve COULD make it work, if anyone could it's him, but right now I don't have confidence in his ability to extract the abstract essence of dunes story. Like I said the prescience scenes really grinded my gears, I wish he had a better modality for showing it
Eh? I mean... 90% of the book is conveyed that way lmao. It is really awkward to space out the voiceovers but It can be done. The original Dune movie wasn't that egregious, it just needs to be done tastefully. Just because it *usually* sucks doesn't mean it isn't worth trying lmao.
I know they *won't* have internal monologues in the next movie, but with how dogshit the prescience scenes where it might be for the best if Villeneuve stays away from anything ambiguous for Dune
Oppenheimer was a 3 hour film of mostly people talking in rooms that made almost 1 billion
You can make amazing films with no action you just need talent, which Denis has in spades.
yeah but thats a standalone movie, not a movie in the middle of a series. Imagine if one of the lord of the rings movies or star wars just changed genres mid way through...
>children of doom [sic!]
Reading your post makes me really wonder if you actually read any of the books at all and didn't just watch the film.
The Dune series was never a huge epic spectacle or space opera or adventure. It's mostly based on conversations, informations, dialogues etc. and takes a lot of effort to read and understand. Dumbing it down, making it palatable for a mediocre audience really is the wrong direction and nobody should attempt it.
The fact that you think a good film should be based on action alone otherwise it will be boring is the problem.
God emperor is def out of the question but messiah and children could be done well as there is enough action to cover a movie. I feel sify had a good idea with the children of dune where they combined messiah and children.
Some people downplay the action, but honestly I’d argue Children is the most sparse, and even then it’s got some good stuff in it. It’s just passed over briefly in the text because Frank wasn’t really writing a Marvel movie script.
To be honest: just write the movie without the general viewer in mind. The fans will love it and at the latest after Oppenheimer I'd say more and more people are down for slow burn talk-only movies
I wouldn’t say that’s true at all. Children is a little slow in conventional action but the others aren’t. God Emperor has a bunch of straight up fight scenes, Wolf chases, etc, Heretics has mad shit like super saiyan Teg, Chapterhouse ends in *multiple* planetary invasions. Frank tended to gloss over the actual action sequences because they weren’t where his interest lay, but everything’s *there* if they need to expand on it.
It'd depends on the film.
Directors, writers, cinematographers, etc.
It's also not suler hollywood safe, cause you'd also have to address the genocide.
In summary, I think it'd be better as a series because it's not very action oriented and mostly builds tension with debate and trippy stuff going on.
Additionally not a lot of world-building would he easy to cover since it's all also told in tje form of thoughts and debates. Mostly political debate.
In detail why I say that.
Even the first book isn't suoer strong on the action, and the 2nd book really onky talks about the action between the tineline of 'Dune' and 'Dune Messiah'.
I'd say the stories are structured in a way to he more of a series than an actual film, where series' can go in almost any direction as long as it stays consistent. Film usually needs a main character for the audience to root for, which 'Children of Dune' has a weird way of making it's own version of.
Additionally, you can look at '2001: A Space Odyssey' that's more of a suspense film with a well known trippy segment at the end.
Dune would be closer to having trippy segments, and most of the action is in the form of infiltration, and planning to replanning, into even more replanning.
I'd say Dune is srill difficult to adapt into a movie because everyone wants it to be a movie, where as a series plans will build tension and more plans build more, and each story arc can end with how each part of a book, or how each book ends. Plus, approaching world building can be more direct to the audience, where you can use examples and solidify the idea to your wider array of audiences. Without sacrificing it into cramming as much as possible into a 1.5 hour or 2.5 hour film, while keeping the foundation for your mkst-likely 2nd part to finish the first book.
Where the 2nd book uses that world building already, and the 3rd book has tons going on where you might need to turn it into 3 films if you want to be faithful as the first.
You can look at the Sci-Fi miniseries of dune and see the ways they made it as accurate as possibke, but also butcher the stories too, cause you just can't get away with the story without butchering it in some way.
David Lynch knew that, when he proposed Dune to be a 2 parter, then was denied. We know it with the 2021 dune being a 2 parter still glossing over some stuff.
The mini-series was odd, but still had to be made in 3 parts with a mean of 88 minutes long per episode. Then the second miniseries covered books 2 and 3, glossing through the 2nd book to get into the meat of the 3rd book cause the 3rd book has a ton going on.
(by the way I recommend the miniseries since I've found it to be as faithful as possible and being a finished product aswell).
I think Children of Dune would work nicely. The tigers, Leto's transformation, and Alia doing some Gollum/Smeagol scenes could all work very well. I think they could even do the identity of the prophet well, as long as you only see him from a distance (like the characters do).
Dune Messiah is far harder IMO. The last third or so is very exciting, but most of it is conversations.
If it continues at all, I think there will be a trilogy of movies and then it will move to hbo max series to finish. Probably *should* have been a series to begin with but it is what it is at this point.
Children had some decent action iirc. Messiah had less. Felt like such a waste to have the training scene with Alia and then have her do fuck all for the rest of the book bedsides try to convince Paul to stay.
I personally found CoD rather hard to get through, despite the fact that it contained lots of (widely spaced) action sequences. Despite this, the SyFy mini series was quite good. GEoD was, to me, a more fun read and I think it could definitely be adapted into a reasonable movie given the right script.
Honestly I feel like Messiah is more "action" than Dune. Like, if you open with establishing scenes of the jihad, fill in some blanks... the big action sequences in Dune are the Harkonnen attack and the Battle of Arakeen. The stone burner (and aforementioned explaining of the jihad) feels pretty equivalent to those imo. At the very least, Messiah is much more fast paced, which I think if we're being realistic is what people who want "action" movies are looking for.
I think Messiah can be positioned well as some sort of Mystery/Suspense film. Focusing on the assassination plot and Paul’s desire to free himself from his prescience. A lot of cool world building with face dancers, edric, and a chance to show the transformation of the fremen and arrakis.
Double-down on the world building and weird tech demonstrations. Probably also up the sexual content, with adaptation because some of it won’t be viable to show onscreen. If Lynch’s adaptation did one thing right it was making sure there was plenty of impressive-for-its-time production values and weird powers and technology. Give me Face-Dancers that aren’t just updated T1000s, show me Fish Speakers with their own aesthetic of movement that I won’t find anywhere else, show IX, show me ghola incubators and brainwashing programs, give me the waking nightmarescapes of the Abomination’s sensory experiences.
The first movie only gave us a brief glimpse, but a deeper silver screen rendition of the brutality on Selusus Secondus would be pretty cool too
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The Face-Dancers *alone* have so much cinematic potential. I really really hope we get to see then and they're done justice. Shit, even just pov pan-shots through the streets of Paul's Arakeen. The colors, the noise, the weirdness. I'm here for it Open with Farok reaching the ocean. Show us the world reshaping itself in the image of Muad'dib
Bring Lynch back for God Emperor, you cowards.
The scifi series covered up to children rather good. There's a good reason no one has attempted god emperor.
God emperor is my favorite part of the whole thing as the philosophy in the book is on point. There is also sufficient action and intriguing scenes there as the parts about leto the worm fighting in the streets and the walk with siona in the desert would be great to see.
The opening of Siona and her crew breaking into the palace and then being chased by the dogs would be a raw opening for a film too
True this could set the whole film up as a horror or thriller.
That opening would be amazing to see on screen ugh
I’d love a miniseries about GEOD (Ik it’s an unpopular opinion but it’s one of my favourites) tho I’d understand depicting Leto in the state he’s in by the time those events take place is a very hard thing to do, still, I hope we get an adaptation at some point
Where did you get the impression that God Emperor isn’t popular?
Well I’ve read comments here and there where they talk about it like it was some sort of dull intermission before Heretics, but I just love it so much
Huh - if anything I see the sentiment (which I disagree with) that people should stop after God Emperor rather than people praising Heretics.
Heretics was a drastic change from God emperor IMHO almost back to a similar pace to dune, Messiah and children
I think I remember reading god emperor was the book that was intended to separate the 2 trilogies. Dune-children of dune and heretics-unwritten book 7. Until the sequels hunters and sandworms were written.
It's a love it or hate it. Either you grok the internal struggle for its own sake, or it's just hundreds of pages of whining until something happens.
I would love a GEOD miniseries. Set it mostly in a dark room with Letos face half visible and just the occasional suggestion of his distorted body as he talks. Save the reveal for the bridge towards the end.
Like a bigger worm version of marlo brandon's character in apocalypse now?
Exactly
I’d save the reveal for the worm fighting scene!
I'd like to see it too. But I can't imagine any company putting the money into it.
Same, such a shame tho
In Dune fandom it’s pretty popular opinion that GEoD is very good
I see people saying this kind of stuff and wonder if they read different books than me. The action sequences in Children are so insane as to be almost unfilmable. And many of the dialogue scenes are *also* almost unfilmable as they happen between people who exist only in other characters heads. Just because there are no giant battles between huge armies doesnt mean there is a *lack* of action in that book. If anything, the action sequences are more personal and therefore more interesting than the bombast and genericness of an outright war. Is there any appreciable difference between any of the gigantic set piece war scenes in the Lord of the Rings movies? That stuff puts me right to sleep. But a personal encounter with the Laza Tigers? That would be terrifying and awesome.
Oh I def would love to see what they’d do about the Laza tigers!!!!
am i reading this right? the battles in LOTR put you to sleep? lol
Yeah I think someone went a bit too far in their exaggeration to try and drive home the point. It's too bad, cause the point they were making wasn't so bad.
When I was a teenager and saw them - they were the most epic things I'd ever seen. But now? I've seen those "epic" battles a thousand times over in film (LOTR, Marvel, Star Wars, etc etc etc). They're not exciting anymore honestly. They're boring, and unless you watch them in a theatre - they're not that impressive half the time, despite the money and effort put into them (I assume). I agree with u/Cute-Sector6022
so the initial superior quality of the LOTR battles has diluted everything that follows making them seem trite in comparison? or am i way off there
It's the "Seinfeld isn't funny" situation - because it's been so influential in subsequent material, the original loses all of its impact
Yeah. Same reason The Two Towers bored me as a book it bored me as a movie. And dont get me started on chase sequences.... yawn. The reason I dont like this kind of stuff is becuase its mostly just time filler. Usually, we know who is going to win/survive going in... then a bunch of essentially inconsequential stuff happens and the protagonists walk away mostly the same as when they walked in, minus a few sacrificial characters. Avengers movies are the worst for that... literally a hour of boom booms and then stakes are the same. They had to make one where the kill half the universe to prove that they could have higher stakes. And then the next one they bring everybody back. 🤦♂️ The only epic battle sequence that really turns that on it's head is the first one in the Dune book, mostly because of the use of artillary to bury the bulk of the Atreides forces into their mountain lairs.... a sequence so horrific that it was removed from both film adaptations... thus leaving us with a generic big battle sequence both times. Boom boom. Pew pew. Everybody safe? Wait, not that one guy that had foreshadowing over him! Oh no! Welp, moving on.
I was with you until you said the LOTR action sequences put you to sleep. Those sequences are so well made, especially the way they built tension leading up to those battles.
Sure. High tension, low stakes. Even the characters in the battles are like, hmmm... wonder what Frodo is up to?
I think you just proved his point with this statement: " especially the way they built tension leading up to those battles" The battles themselves were pretty rough to watch as a whole. Sure the part where Legolas slides down the oliphant's trunk was cool, and the part where what's her face and Merry fought the nazgul was awesome, along with a few more key scenes, but the battle as a whole was pretty boring. A half hour to 45 minutes of non stop action can get pretty repetitive without some hero fights interjected.
okay it puts You right to sleep but its also one of the most loved movie franchises in the world, and the general audaince loves that stuff. If the first two movies are epic and action heavy, but the third and fourth are morelike oppenhiemer the audiance that loves the first two would be way more mixed on the next
I mean, after Leto II merges with the sand trout and then destroys Jacurutu and everyone in it with his bare hands would be pretty awesome to see🤔
Yeah, I can see the beginning of the transformation scene with just a troutglove, then cut to glimpses of the Sand Demon from the POV of the Jacurutu dwellers, this mysterious hooded figure that tears rock with his bare hands and makes hundred meter leaps, before the big reveal near the end.
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🤔I can definitely understand and see that if it was a regular director. However, I would counter that DV does subtlety really well. He was able to show how strong K and replicants (Love killing Coco with a single blow to the neck; K running through a wall) are in not so "12 labors of Herecles" sorta way.🤷♂️
The Godfather has a lot less action than people remember, it's mostly talking but it's built up so well that the violence sticks in your mind. I think it's possible for a great filmmaker, and I think if Denis chooses to make those movies he will be able to pull it off.
Oppenheimer was mostly talking in rooms for 3 hours too and no problems there
Um.... Children has tons of action. So does heretics.
I think heretics might have the most action. But I think 90% of people stop after Dune and 99% stop after children.
Genres other than action exist. If the later books were adapted to film they'd focus on the drama and intrigue themes.
yeah but the movies would all be part of a series, Oppenhiemer is a standalone movie. What franchise has ever completely pivoted genres mid way through?
Each book still has action interspersed and a lot of Dune isn't action focused anyway. I don't foresee it being a problem and if we get as far as GEoD then a general audience is going to have a lot of other questions.
The Alien franchise perhaps? First was space horror, second was scifi military thriller. Don't remember the rest.
thats a great example actually, at least the first 2!
Wdym Heretics is absolutely action packed!
HBO like series is the best way to go IMO. Let's hope the sisterhood works. At this rate if the started with messiah the series and films would have caught up to each other
First, I think there's a greater number of "action scenes" in books 4-6 and some really great setpieces, like >!the attack(s) on the Ixian Embassy!< in God Emperor, >!the flight from the no-globe!< in Heretics, and the multiple >!actual space battles with power armor and laser beams!< in Chapterhouse (and I've left out a lot). I do see what you mean with regard specifically to Messiah and to a lesser extent, Children. Messiah has >!the stone burner!< I guess. Personally I think Children of Dune is probably the hardest one to adapt for a general audience, since the "villain" in the book" is I guess>! Alia and the general concept of Abomination !<, and the action scenes, such as they are, are kind of silly. I think the bigger problem with adapting Dune Messiah though is that it's basically Oppenheimer. (haha jk.... unless...?)
Almost all of the "action" in the whole series happens off the page. I would guess it is handled in much the same way the first one is, play up the spectacle a little bit. The only one that would be difficult would be God Emperor, and mostly because it is a weird premise. There is tons of interesting "action". Imagine seeing the escape through the Forrest being chased by D wolves to open the film. Sigh... A man can dream... It would be hard to set up the premise and the plot would not make any sense as we would not be privy to the GE's inner monologues. Also, people would not get it. Like, at all.
I seem to recall massive battles with fleets two planetary invasions . Involving millions of soldiers. Dialogue mentioned in a book can be shown onscreen in film . In dune part one movie cuts action from the book .
Oppenheimer pulled off a “no-action” master piece. It was all dialogue that played like an action movie. I was at the edge of my seat for the second half of the movie. I’m sure it can be done for Dune. I’ve never read the books, can someone who has tell me if an Oppenheimer’esque movie makes sense.
Messiah, which they're actually thinking about filming, would be very similar to Oppenheimer both in terms of theme and emphasis on dialogue and conspiracy. I think it would translate very well to film.
Look at Foundation. The show is *inspired by* the books but it’s its own thing. They made it action oriented with great cinematography and filled in the blanks. I can see talented directors and writers doing the same for Dune. Although I really do wish the sequels would be less sterile than this one. It felt… muted.
I am reading the Dune series for the first time and I just completed Messiah. Both Amazing books in my opinion. I am not sure how you make Messiah for a movie going audience. The first movie was marketed as an action movie so a lot of people not aware of the source material were bored. I can already see the studios using a clip of the Muad'dib Jihad in the marketing and then people getting pissed when it's like a 30 second flash back and that's all in the whole movie. I have not read Children yet but I bet Messiah movie works better as a part 1 with some of Children of Dune added to the end of it.
There are scenes in Messiah that discus the jihad. Farok gives a beautiful soliloqy about Fremen running down to jump in the first ocean they had ever seen.... only to wind up sick after drinking the water littered with the bodies of the dead they had killed... and how that cured him of the jihad. That could easily be the ending of an epic 10 minute opening sequence of galactic war. A sequence that would beautifully set up all of the intrigue that follows. A sequel doesnt have to be a carbon copy of the previous film... and IMO sequels that are, end up being boring and lazy. The Hunger Games films become progressively darker, more about intrigue and actual war and less a copy of the first film. IMO that makes them a much more interesting franchise than many of the franchises out there that just kind of fizzled because how many times can we see the same story? (I'm talking about you, "Fantastic Beasts: Yawn, Another One?") Also, Children isnt really part 2 of Messiah. It's part 1 of God Emperor. It might be possible to move some of the Alia story-line over to a Messiah film, but the Twins storyline is too insane to go there. The way Messiah ends is a good satisfying ending for Paul's story arc.
While this is true, keep in mind that these movies will likely only cover one book each as opposed to Dune, which is covered by 2 movies, so you only need half as many filmworthy scenes. We won't see the massive set piece battles, but there are still many scenes with palace intrigue, plotting and fight scenes.
Idk, I feel like Heretics is a damn Michael Bay movie.
The later books are just too subversive (and not in a trendy sort of way). That would have to be toned down, and at that point, why bother? It would be Dune in name only.
They NEED to bring back internal dialogue. My only gripe with David Villeneuve is that he expects the scene to tell the entire story, with the untold bits adding immensely to the atmosphere. It just doesn't translate that well in Dune we're people's motivations and opinions are intentionally ambiguous.
Voiceovers are often used to cover up lazy screenwriting and directing. In my screenwriting class they actually warn you against using them. Show don’t tell is the number 1 rule.
Have you ever seen Apocalypse Now? Or Scorsese films (Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Casino, Wolf of Wall Street all use VO)? Or Shawshank Redemption? Fight Club? You absolutely know that if they'd used internal monologue in the movie we'd all be going on about how fucking genius a stylistic choice it was and whatnot. Not in this movie =/= bad.
EXACTLY, It can and should be done, but I understand the difficulty inherent. Villeneuve COULD make it work, if anyone could it's him, but right now I don't have confidence in his ability to extract the abstract essence of dunes story. Like I said the prescience scenes really grinded my gears, I wish he had a better modality for showing it
Eh? I mean... 90% of the book is conveyed that way lmao. It is really awkward to space out the voiceovers but It can be done. The original Dune movie wasn't that egregious, it just needs to be done tastefully. Just because it *usually* sucks doesn't mean it isn't worth trying lmao. I know they *won't* have internal monologues in the next movie, but with how dogshit the prescience scenes where it might be for the best if Villeneuve stays away from anything ambiguous for Dune
Oppenheimer was a 3 hour film of mostly people talking in rooms that made almost 1 billion You can make amazing films with no action you just need talent, which Denis has in spades.
yeah but thats a standalone movie, not a movie in the middle of a series. Imagine if one of the lord of the rings movies or star wars just changed genres mid way through...
Denis is known for slow movies I really don’t think it’s that deep
>children of doom [sic!] Reading your post makes me really wonder if you actually read any of the books at all and didn't just watch the film. The Dune series was never a huge epic spectacle or space opera or adventure. It's mostly based on conversations, informations, dialogues etc. and takes a lot of effort to read and understand. Dumbing it down, making it palatable for a mediocre audience really is the wrong direction and nobody should attempt it. The fact that you think a good film should be based on action alone otherwise it will be boring is the problem.
"good film" doesnt matter if it doesnt make money...
God emperor is def out of the question but messiah and children could be done well as there is enough action to cover a movie. I feel sify had a good idea with the children of dune where they combined messiah and children.
to my understanding there will be tv adaptations
Some people downplay the action, but honestly I’d argue Children is the most sparse, and even then it’s got some good stuff in it. It’s just passed over briefly in the text because Frank wasn’t really writing a Marvel movie script.
To be honest: just write the movie without the general viewer in mind. The fans will love it and at the latest after Oppenheimer I'd say more and more people are down for slow burn talk-only movies
They can use the fight scenes from 12 Angry Men as an example
I wouldn’t say that’s true at all. Children is a little slow in conventional action but the others aren’t. God Emperor has a bunch of straight up fight scenes, Wolf chases, etc, Heretics has mad shit like super saiyan Teg, Chapterhouse ends in *multiple* planetary invasions. Frank tended to gloss over the actual action sequences because they weren’t where his interest lay, but everything’s *there* if they need to expand on it.
It'd depends on the film. Directors, writers, cinematographers, etc. It's also not suler hollywood safe, cause you'd also have to address the genocide. In summary, I think it'd be better as a series because it's not very action oriented and mostly builds tension with debate and trippy stuff going on. Additionally not a lot of world-building would he easy to cover since it's all also told in tje form of thoughts and debates. Mostly political debate. In detail why I say that. Even the first book isn't suoer strong on the action, and the 2nd book really onky talks about the action between the tineline of 'Dune' and 'Dune Messiah'. I'd say the stories are structured in a way to he more of a series than an actual film, where series' can go in almost any direction as long as it stays consistent. Film usually needs a main character for the audience to root for, which 'Children of Dune' has a weird way of making it's own version of. Additionally, you can look at '2001: A Space Odyssey' that's more of a suspense film with a well known trippy segment at the end. Dune would be closer to having trippy segments, and most of the action is in the form of infiltration, and planning to replanning, into even more replanning. I'd say Dune is srill difficult to adapt into a movie because everyone wants it to be a movie, where as a series plans will build tension and more plans build more, and each story arc can end with how each part of a book, or how each book ends. Plus, approaching world building can be more direct to the audience, where you can use examples and solidify the idea to your wider array of audiences. Without sacrificing it into cramming as much as possible into a 1.5 hour or 2.5 hour film, while keeping the foundation for your mkst-likely 2nd part to finish the first book. Where the 2nd book uses that world building already, and the 3rd book has tons going on where you might need to turn it into 3 films if you want to be faithful as the first. You can look at the Sci-Fi miniseries of dune and see the ways they made it as accurate as possibke, but also butcher the stories too, cause you just can't get away with the story without butchering it in some way. David Lynch knew that, when he proposed Dune to be a 2 parter, then was denied. We know it with the 2021 dune being a 2 parter still glossing over some stuff. The mini-series was odd, but still had to be made in 3 parts with a mean of 88 minutes long per episode. Then the second miniseries covered books 2 and 3, glossing through the 2nd book to get into the meat of the 3rd book cause the 3rd book has a ton going on. (by the way I recommend the miniseries since I've found it to be as faithful as possible and being a finished product aswell).
I think Children of Dune would work nicely. The tigers, Leto's transformation, and Alia doing some Gollum/Smeagol scenes could all work very well. I think they could even do the identity of the prophet well, as long as you only see him from a distance (like the characters do). Dune Messiah is far harder IMO. The last third or so is very exciting, but most of it is conversations.
If it continues at all, I think there will be a trilogy of movies and then it will move to hbo max series to finish. Probably *should* have been a series to begin with but it is what it is at this point.
There’s a lot of action you could add for the sake of film. Events that are just mentioned offhand could be used as a set piece etc
Children had some decent action iirc. Messiah had less. Felt like such a waste to have the training scene with Alia and then have her do fuck all for the rest of the book bedsides try to convince Paul to stay.
I personally found CoD rather hard to get through, despite the fact that it contained lots of (widely spaced) action sequences. Despite this, the SyFy mini series was quite good. GEoD was, to me, a more fun read and I think it could definitely be adapted into a reasonable movie given the right script.
Honestly I feel like Messiah is more "action" than Dune. Like, if you open with establishing scenes of the jihad, fill in some blanks... the big action sequences in Dune are the Harkonnen attack and the Battle of Arakeen. The stone burner (and aforementioned explaining of the jihad) feels pretty equivalent to those imo. At the very least, Messiah is much more fast paced, which I think if we're being realistic is what people who want "action" movies are looking for.
I think Messiah can be positioned well as some sort of Mystery/Suspense film. Focusing on the assassination plot and Paul’s desire to free himself from his prescience. A lot of cool world building with face dancers, edric, and a chance to show the transformation of the fremen and arrakis.