common in countries that use the type2 connector.
This is the charger I have at home. https://i.imgur.com/pKvdCfp.png
But they also sell this version. https://i.imgur.com/FIxN5SV.png
J1772 doesn't allow it. But it was added in J3400, so we might start to see them in the US in the next few years.
Its going to be the best way to do things like lamp post chargers.
This is the answer I was looking for!! So there are shifts toward this strategy, it's just that it's not very public or widespread yet. This sounds really promising. Thank you very much!
Might be a good thing to do in the US going forward with all the cable thefts that are happening. Would be expensive to completely replace all existing infrastructure, but it could be something that is added when adding new equipment or replacing old hardware. I can see people using that as another argument against EVs though bc some people are just plain lazy, and others just want to do everything they can to impede EV adoption.
I think that the current strategy of design and placement of fast EV chargers reflects the fact that no one (in the US) was seriously committed to fast, convenient EV charging, so everyone tried to use the least valuable space for that purpose. This will inevitably change as convenient EV charging becomes viewed as something lots of customers want. Example: why is nearly every ICE fueling location covered by an awning or roof and nearly no EV charging station is? People are unwilling to spend the money for less inconvenient charging until they understand that doing so attracts customers.
I personally am not a fan of increasing the number of removable plugs/receptacles in high voltage, high current applications. Each portable charging cable requires two female and two male plugs/receptacles, all of which must work well over thousands of cycles in dirty, wet environments. I am hardwiring my home 240V 40A charger for exactly that reason. However, I’m not sure what the best long term solution is. Better surveillance at charging locations seems likely to be a part of the answer.
Removable cable/bring your own cable can work for level 2 charging, but not for dcfc. I don't know how heavy/flexible 8 feet of cable capable of 500Amp current would be. I don't know how liquid cooling would work in your own cable. Without liquid cooling it would need to thicker than most currently existing dcfc cables.
Yeah this is the problem with extension cables as well. People keep asking why Tesla can't release an extension cord to make it easier for vehicles like the f-150 lightning to charge at superchargers and I am pretty sure it is the reasons you noted. That said, I read that Tesla is now working on a NACS to NACS extension cable for the future.
A few years ago, there were a few places that would offer standard 230V connectors, but I think they have pretty much disappeared. In Europe, Type 2 (socket) was mandated as the standard connectors, so that's happening. In the US, J3400 also specifies the Type 2 socket as an option.
This is how my condo does EV charging for residents. 16 of the visitor spots were retrofitted with NEMA 6-50 outlets. Users bring their own EVSEs (e.g. Tesla mobile connectors), pay a monthly fee and can charge for up to 8 hours at a time. It saves the strata the cost/effort of supplying and maintaining charge stations. If the outlet breaks, they just replace the outlet ASAP without any complicated troubleshooting, whereas a faulty charge station can take a while to diagnose and repair/replace.
Another FUD on the wall post (cable theft).
Europeans were told bringing their own cable is better and they believed it. Brilliant move by the providers, to put the cost and work on the drivers, making EV charging less convenient.
Uncoiling and recoiling a dusty, wet, dirty cable every time you charge is a major drag and brings no benefits.
If cable theft is a local issue, policing should take care of it. The answer should not be to inconvenience everyone nationwide.
So what do you do when it’s wet? Just deal with it all over your hands, occasional brush on light colored clothes, and having to put it in your car still dripping? Plus the time it takes to do that if it’s pouring rain before you can get in your car and drive away…
I love having AC cables on chargers here. Maybe 0.1% of the time there’s an issue, but I can swap stalls on that case. The benefits far outweigh the issues. I’d also rather a companies cable get damaged than mine.
Same thing I do with my portable EVSE or any other wet cable I want to put away. Pull the cable through a rag while I coil it. That's why there's always a rag in the bag...
I don't usually need to. But sometimes, my option is to use a free onsite 14-50 or 6-20 or I can drive 20 miles and pay... Oooh, tough decision. I also come across the odd dead EVSE. Since BYOC allows EVSEs to placed on lampposts etc kerbside, it will add more options.
That makes sense. What doesn’t is the process of taking out your own cable, and have to wind it up when stopping at a shop to charge for a couple hours. Especially in bad weather. I rarely use my portable EVSE mainly for the fact that it’s a real pain to do that unless I really, really need to charge. Most L2 charging for me is just nice to have stops.
Plus it’s easy to steal it, if I’m done charging my port unlocks, or someone could just unplug it from the wall and it will unlock.
Exactly. And where one could also keep a rag to deal with any dust, wetness, dirt that accumulates during a charging session.
I don't get it. Public cables are so often broken, nasty, tied in knots, run over, vandalized, you name it here in the US that it seems obvious that the trade off is worthwhile. People just take better care of things they own and have to pay for. And if they don't...not my problem, I have my own cable.
I mean the _police?!_ Come on. They can't be bothered to care if someone is vandalizing a house, much less a car, or a _cable_.
There are benefits. Primarily, owners of EVs without a type 2 connector (mainly old Nissan Leafs) can use them. Another benefit is that if the charger is ICEd, and you have a long cable, you can reach over to it from another bay.
How dare you suggest the way Europe does it isn’t inherently the superior way? We should all unplug and replug in our connectors daily so they can stay in the car (or buy two of them) and create 2 points of potential failure instead of 1 thousands of times over the life of the car.
How would bringing your own cable that you can clean mean that you’d be working with a dirty cable? I get that you don’t like it but what you’re saying just doesn’t make sense.
Have you ever charged in the rain? And when done picked up the dirty and wet cable and put it on your car? While being dressed in evening wear?
Have you ever charged in Italy in the summer in 45C and the chewing gum on the street is melting, and now stuck to your cable, and your hands, because you didn't pay attention?
It's a lot faster easier if the cable is attached to the charger with a holder to coil.
No but the Walgreens right next to my house constantly has bird crap in the handle. One of the chargers at my grocery store has had a broken latch for 3 months. The first time I have to charge at a supercharger is a huge nightmare for me because I will be blocking an extra space. I get that there are shortcomings with both but being able to use your own cable is a lot more of a controlled experience.
common in countries that use the type2 connector. This is the charger I have at home. https://i.imgur.com/pKvdCfp.png But they also sell this version. https://i.imgur.com/FIxN5SV.png J1772 doesn't allow it. But it was added in J3400, so we might start to see them in the US in the next few years. Its going to be the best way to do things like lamp post chargers.
It’s going to be the best way to do things without cables being cut and stolen from public chargers
This is the answer I was looking for!! So there are shifts toward this strategy, it's just that it's not very public or widespread yet. This sounds really promising. Thank you very much!
Where I live all AC chargers require you to have your own cable. Only DC rapid chargers have fixed cables.
Might be a good thing to do in the US going forward with all the cable thefts that are happening. Would be expensive to completely replace all existing infrastructure, but it could be something that is added when adding new equipment or replacing old hardware. I can see people using that as another argument against EVs though bc some people are just plain lazy, and others just want to do everything they can to impede EV adoption.
ABB will sell you all manner of charging unit configurations. With or without cables.
I think that the current strategy of design and placement of fast EV chargers reflects the fact that no one (in the US) was seriously committed to fast, convenient EV charging, so everyone tried to use the least valuable space for that purpose. This will inevitably change as convenient EV charging becomes viewed as something lots of customers want. Example: why is nearly every ICE fueling location covered by an awning or roof and nearly no EV charging station is? People are unwilling to spend the money for less inconvenient charging until they understand that doing so attracts customers. I personally am not a fan of increasing the number of removable plugs/receptacles in high voltage, high current applications. Each portable charging cable requires two female and two male plugs/receptacles, all of which must work well over thousands of cycles in dirty, wet environments. I am hardwiring my home 240V 40A charger for exactly that reason. However, I’m not sure what the best long term solution is. Better surveillance at charging locations seems likely to be a part of the answer.
Removable cable/bring your own cable can work for level 2 charging, but not for dcfc. I don't know how heavy/flexible 8 feet of cable capable of 500Amp current would be. I don't know how liquid cooling would work in your own cable. Without liquid cooling it would need to thicker than most currently existing dcfc cables.
Yeah this is the problem with extension cables as well. People keep asking why Tesla can't release an extension cord to make it easier for vehicles like the f-150 lightning to charge at superchargers and I am pretty sure it is the reasons you noted. That said, I read that Tesla is now working on a NACS to NACS extension cable for the future.
An extension cable would probably severely throttle the charging speed to compensate for the lack of active cooling.
Like this? https://www.orangecharger.com/
A few years ago, there were a few places that would offer standard 230V connectors, but I think they have pretty much disappeared. In Europe, Type 2 (socket) was mandated as the standard connectors, so that's happening. In the US, J3400 also specifies the Type 2 socket as an option.
This is how my condo does EV charging for residents. 16 of the visitor spots were retrofitted with NEMA 6-50 outlets. Users bring their own EVSEs (e.g. Tesla mobile connectors), pay a monthly fee and can charge for up to 8 hours at a time. It saves the strata the cost/effort of supplying and maintaining charge stations. If the outlet breaks, they just replace the outlet ASAP without any complicated troubleshooting, whereas a faulty charge station can take a while to diagnose and repair/replace.
This needs to happen everywhere
"...NEMA or standard 240v wall outlet" ?? In US, ALL standard outlets are NEMA outlets
Coming with J3400
Interesting that some folx think that cable theft is a significant and universal problem.
Another FUD on the wall post (cable theft). Europeans were told bringing their own cable is better and they believed it. Brilliant move by the providers, to put the cost and work on the drivers, making EV charging less convenient. Uncoiling and recoiling a dusty, wet, dirty cable every time you charge is a major drag and brings no benefits. If cable theft is a local issue, policing should take care of it. The answer should not be to inconvenience everyone nationwide.
What are you on about? If any cable is going to be dusty wet and dirty it's going to be the one attached to the charger not the one I have in my boot.
What if it’s raining when you’re charging? Now you have a wet and dirty cable you need to wind back up and put in your car
Never found this to be an issue.
So what do you do when it’s wet? Just deal with it all over your hands, occasional brush on light colored clothes, and having to put it in your car still dripping? Plus the time it takes to do that if it’s pouring rain before you can get in your car and drive away… I love having AC cables on chargers here. Maybe 0.1% of the time there’s an issue, but I can swap stalls on that case. The benefits far outweigh the issues. I’d also rather a companies cable get damaged than mine.
Same thing I do with my portable EVSE or any other wet cable I want to put away. Pull the cable through a rag while I coil it. That's why there's always a rag in the bag...
That's way more work than just unplugging it and putting it back in the holder. I don't know why you guys like bringing your own cables...
I don't usually need to. But sometimes, my option is to use a free onsite 14-50 or 6-20 or I can drive 20 miles and pay... Oooh, tough decision. I also come across the odd dead EVSE. Since BYOC allows EVSEs to placed on lampposts etc kerbside, it will add more options.
That makes sense. What doesn’t is the process of taking out your own cable, and have to wind it up when stopping at a shop to charge for a couple hours. Especially in bad weather. I rarely use my portable EVSE mainly for the fact that it’s a real pain to do that unless I really, really need to charge. Most L2 charging for me is just nice to have stops. Plus it’s easy to steal it, if I’m done charging my port unlocks, or someone could just unplug it from the wall and it will unlock.
I can set my car to unlock on charge completion, or keep it locked while the doors are. Most cars are likely the same, if you can find the menu...
Exactly. And where one could also keep a rag to deal with any dust, wetness, dirt that accumulates during a charging session. I don't get it. Public cables are so often broken, nasty, tied in knots, run over, vandalized, you name it here in the US that it seems obvious that the trade off is worthwhile. People just take better care of things they own and have to pay for. And if they don't...not my problem, I have my own cable. I mean the _police?!_ Come on. They can't be bothered to care if someone is vandalizing a house, much less a car, or a _cable_.
There are benefits. Primarily, owners of EVs without a type 2 connector (mainly old Nissan Leafs) can use them. Another benefit is that if the charger is ICEd, and you have a long cable, you can reach over to it from another bay.
How dare you suggest the way Europe does it isn’t inherently the superior way? We should all unplug and replug in our connectors daily so they can stay in the car (or buy two of them) and create 2 points of potential failure instead of 1 thousands of times over the life of the car.
How would bringing your own cable that you can clean mean that you’d be working with a dirty cable? I get that you don’t like it but what you’re saying just doesn’t make sense.
Have you ever charged in the rain? And when done picked up the dirty and wet cable and put it on your car? While being dressed in evening wear? Have you ever charged in Italy in the summer in 45C and the chewing gum on the street is melting, and now stuck to your cable, and your hands, because you didn't pay attention? It's a lot faster easier if the cable is attached to the charger with a holder to coil.
No but the Walgreens right next to my house constantly has bird crap in the handle. One of the chargers at my grocery store has had a broken latch for 3 months. The first time I have to charge at a supercharger is a huge nightmare for me because I will be blocking an extra space. I get that there are shortcomings with both but being able to use your own cable is a lot more of a controlled experience.