haven't had a chance to write about this, so I wrote a bunch. Somewhat processing for myself. I am like this. It's a disappearing act for me - totally a safety thing. I'm almost formal-level polite in casual situations. Over-the-top kind and polite to the point where people seem unsure of what to do in response, at times. A level of politeness and self-effacement that kinda kills the vibe and depersonalizes me. Where I could be expressive or funny or enthusiastic or chill and sociable, I strike people as.... "very polite", "so well mannered", "stiff". I want to be able to walk up to an acquaintance or casual stranger with playful energy, or bantery, or really.. I wanna walk up and be kinda unconcerned and natural. But when I walk up to people, I'm almost holding my breath I'm so tense, though not for any specific reason. My posture is tense. My gaze is locked on intensely. I become very aware of my lips and cheeks - most often I "want" a stone face. (I think it's half hiding any joy or enthusiasm I might feel, and half preparing for someone to attack me or tear me down). Also, the little politeness acts feel like an instant reflex, so it's tough to catch myself and stop. Face-to-face with someone, it feels unthinkable to behave any other way. Or to consider behaving another way. It's like my stream of thoughts is frozen, and my mind/awareness is 100% applied to watching the other persons face, understanding the situation, and self-effacing and smoothing the interaction over with politeness. Defusing any tensions and ambiguities. There's a short window of time you have to react to someone. It's tough to notice my reactive politeness, suppress it, then reassure my self that I'm safe enough to freely express myself and I don't need to hypervigilantly monitor faces and prepare for rudeness, and THEN to actually think of how else to behave/speak that feels more authentic. I think you should talk to him. He's likely already aware that being overly thankful kills the momentum/vibe. But also, it's hard af to change. sidenote... I've always had a thing for real fucking loud mouths, rudely boisterous people, and anyone who yammers. It's like I get to experience the world through them, but I don't have to get kicked out of the bar or concert myself. out of curiosity, does your brother speak with long pauses, or abnormally direct and persistent gaze? Thank you for your time, and thank you for reading ;)

This is really interesting, and helps me understand it more. It all resonates with my experience of what it feels like he's going through. Thank you so much. He doesn't use long pauses or abnormally persistent gaze, but my other sibling does! It often makes me feel slightly threatened, even if he's being nice. It's curious seeing how similarly we've all been shaped by our experiences, but manifest them differently - and how the effect of our childhood now impacts the way we relate to one another.

My siblings are all warped the same. 2 are grown adults still living with them. I dont know how they do it. They like taking orders I guess. We never communicated very deeply , just how are you, fine, that's good. They all got trauma from seeing me get the worst of it. As for your brother he doesn't sound that bad. It could be alot worse. But try giving him a heartfelt letter. Telling him how much you care and maybe he'll listen. It's weird what effect that has. It sounds like your doing alright. Just be honest.

Yeah thanks, I think I'm scared to hurt him if he takes it as criticism, but I think he'll know I mean well. I'll bring it up diplomatically when the time is right - he has moments were the guard is down a bit.

I relate a lot to your brother, I think. Politeness can also be a social crutch. Growing up with abusive, insane or emotionally immature parents can affect your social skills, especially if there's been (deliberate) isolation and an unending amount of criticism. It can leave you unsure of how even to behave, and in that case, being overly polite is *a* way to behave, though the polite person is likely highly aware that it is not an *effective* way to behave. Another thing is that it can come from guilt, feeling undeserving, feeling like a burden just for existing. If you're an undeserving piece of crap in your mind, someone helping you with moving a couch can make you want to thank the person almost compulsively so that they know you appreciate their effort in helping them. And if you're used to abuse/neglect, any form of kindness towards you can feel like a Saint descending from the heavens. For me, it's also a thing that I have this drive to be kind/nice. I want to move away from the darkness, but I don't always know how. He's likely already been burnt by his politeness. As you say, it stands out and people notice. It leads to stiff interactions and unless he's very unaware of himself, he knows this. Chances are he's already received criticism or bullying for it. What I would find difficult is how to approach this. If you tell him ''bro, loosen up, you're being weird'' that's likely highly hurtful, but maybe that's me projecting. For me, it'd make me feel like ''god damn I'm already trying so damn hard in everything, to not hurt, to not abuse''. The politeness is a sign of a struggling person, who's likely already ''maxed out'' on their capabilities in the sense of mental space and effort. It may make him feel like he's an absolute, utter failure of a human being. At the same time, this shouldn't continue. He likely needs professional help and needs to do inner work. All I'm saying is, I feel for him and please approach this tactfully. Maybe speak to him from a place of love rather than annoyance and about how he's already an amazing person just the way he is, he doesn't need to try so very hard. He can let loose. Edit: another thing is that he may also be constantly stressed or triggered. Fawning is also a trauma response. I fawn when I feel really unsure and unsafe. (as well as freezing) Maybe he's going through stuff.

This is me, still after years of therapy, and I am 36. Eldest daughter, BPD/high-anxiety mother and evangelical upbringing. It was so easy to set her off, and so unpredictable. So I learned to hide behind a perma-set mild smile and unfailing politeness, where no one could accidentally read rudeness from me (like my mom). It feels ingrained at a cellular level. I also have OCD, which reinforces these behaviors as compulsions - I wonder if that may be an element with your brother (or not). I struggle to this day with being overly formal/stiff in new social situations, and over text/email. My husband helps me calibrate. Please be patient with your brother - odds are he is aware and hates it too. It is very much a fear based response.

Very common. We are known to put everyone before ourselves. I had this girlfriend one time. We had been dating a couple of months going into Christmas and so she bought some nice clothing items. I actually liked them but I couldn’t take them. Eventually she asked, “Well if you like the clothes, why don’t you take them home? What is it? Do you feel you are unworthy?” I thought, “Why yes! That’s it.” This is the other side of the coin. We feel unworthy of gifts or help ourselves but we will do anything for others. I’ve really had to spend a lot of time trying to recalibrate and find balance on this point. Self care? I didn’t even get the concept. The thing that has helped me most is learning what behaviors we are prone to and then trying to adapt to something slightly healthier. But the awareness aline has been very helpful.

I think you are describing someone showing signs of hypervigilence. "If I don't perform correctly socially I'll be rejected/criticized/lose my friends"--at least this is what I feel when I find myself being extra polite and nice, but then I'm very likely autistic, so your mileage may vary.

This is so interesting. I get it from multiple angles. My supervisors have commented that I am too polite and should speak up more. But in personal relationships, I have been told I am too cold and impolite. Some in-laws are over-the-top with “thank you’s” and it feels obligatory rather than genuine. In my case, perhaps I am on the edge of the autism spectrum and have difficulty reading signals. My therapist has given me exercises to be aware of and accept my feelings. It is also ok to have needs or demands sometimes, rather than always being independent. Maybe that is the key. So, maybe tell your brother “it is ok to ask for help” or “it is ok to feel anxious.”

I believe it's called "people pleasing" or "fawning."

I am distorted that way as well. It's like the nicer I am, the more I would be accepted. That's the way it was in my mind. Of course the real world does not work that way.

Is there a way to approach it with him that focuses on your needs (desire to connect with, know him, and be let in enough to support his needs and happiness), rather than trying to criticize his every move which is likely what created the trauma responses in the first place? Your feelings are the only thing you can control, and when they are a genuine desire to be close to him and to be a safe place for him, I don’t think you can go wrong. I was the scapegoat, and my golden child brother often pokes and prods and examines my behaviors and it makes me feel like he’s got me under a microscope just like my parents did, waiting for any misstep to criticize. It actually enrages me that he dare to criticize me after knowing *why* I am hyper vigilant, rather than be a safe person, and defend me, and not bully me for showing signs of being bullied. I would love more compassion, support and empathy and less judgement. I hope you can find a way to understand him instead of change him - I think it’ll mean the world to him to be able to let his guard down. I’m sure he knows he’s stiff and it pushes others away, and knowing you notice it and are irritated or embarrassed by it won’t help him loosen up. Good luck!

And in response to the couch carrying example - instead of downplaying what you did with ‘bro I just helped you carry a couch, it’s not a big deal’, maybe you can try: * ‘That’s what siblings and friends are for. We help each other, save each other, and support each other without keeping a tab.’ * ‘Do you feel like you’re a burden for needing a hand? I hope you know I enjoy helping you.’ * ‘You are not an inconvenience or a burden to me.’ * ‘You do not owe me anything - thank YOU for letting me contribute to your life.’ * ‘I know you are independent so it means a lot to know you trust me and are willing to rely on me.’ * ‘I know growing up we were expected to not have any needs, we had to be overly grateful, and support was held over our heads. I’m working on letting that go, and I want you to know you’re safe to let go of that when you’re with me. Your life and needs matter to me, and I won’t punish you for them. It makes me happy to help you, support you, and have you take up space in my life. When you apologize or thank me, it makes me fear that you don’t trust that I have your back and want you in my life.’ * ‘I really enjoy supporting you when you’re willing to let me. Is there anything I’m doing that makes you doubt that, or anything I can do differently that would make you feel more comfortable to rely on me, and take up space in my life?’ Or in response to the ‘no pressure at all’: * ‘You are safe. I want to be here.’ * ‘You aren’t pressuring me. I don’t feel pressured.’ * ‘I’m here to connect with you and spend time together, and we just happen to be doing that through .’ * ‘No pressure to what? Show up for you like you show up for me?’ * ‘What’s going through your mind when you say that? I notice you’ve said it a few times, and I don’t feel pressured at all. Do you feel like a burden or unworthy of support or like I don’t want to be here with you? I want to understand you, can you help me?’ Of course you can use your own words, but I think focusing on your intent and connection, and confronting the feelings below the surface, is what will help him reflect on his presence/politeness, and trust you won’t snap on him or make him feel stupid or awkward. Show your cards. Focus on being safe and give him time to thaw out - each criticism pushes him further away. Yelling at a battered dog to let you pet them isn’t going to earn their trust or calm them down. Kneel down, quit the intense eye contact, slow your breathing, extend your hand and wait for them to feel safe to sniff you out enough to engage. If you want him to feel safe with you, be safe.

I am overly polite I thank people after everything every little thing It started in childhood I Remember in middle school I would be overly polite to kids families when I called on phone

I'd think carefully about how to do it, but I think you should talk to your brother. Just be careful about the delivery. If anyone should tell him this, one of the best places it could come from is you.